0:00

Sam bankman freed has been sentenced to

0:02

25 years in a federal prison While

0:05

odds of him serving the full sentence are

0:07

in question many are wondering what life will

0:09

be like for him while behind bars Will

0:12

it be like oranges the new

0:14

black or will his experience be

0:16

more like a white-collar country club

0:18

today? We welcome another Sam to

0:20

the show Sam Mengele to discuss

0:22

his experience in federal prison and

0:24

what? SBFs experience is probably going

0:26

to be like from one who's

0:28

been there telling us all about

0:30

where another is going Listening

0:33

closely, but don't drop the soap

0:35

on this episode number 720

0:40

of the bad crypto podcast You

1:10

Have you ever heard the prison

1:12

referred to as the Calabus

1:14

Travis The

1:17

Calabus alabus never heard of that.

1:19

Yeah, I did The

1:21

saurus calm you got the

1:23

brig the slammer the who scout the

1:25

pen the pokey the cell the stir

1:30

The dungeon the joint the

1:32

guard house the stalag the

1:35

labor camp and don't forget the Bastille

1:39

I know why they call it the pokey. It's good. Somebody dropped

1:41

the soap No,

1:43

not the pokey Today

1:46

in the shower and I was like, oh no That's

1:48

when the hokey-pokey really is what it's

1:50

all about and you got You

1:54

don't want to get pokeyed in your hokey Especially

1:58

if you're in Oki Oklahoma I'll

2:00

tell you what this is first of all

2:02

welcome everybody to the bad crypto podcast very

2:05

little crypto talk today But the talk centers

2:07

around a crypto personality Larger-than-life

2:09

personality who's going to be doing time

2:11

for the billions of dollars that he

2:13

cost investors, and pimping been

2:15

freed is going to prison and We

2:19

got this email like the

2:21

day after the sentencing that this

2:24

gentleman who is a consultant to

2:27

To people that are going to federal prison

2:29

about you know how to Help

2:31

with your sentencing and how to you know

2:34

when you're in behind bars how to

2:36

best function within that This

2:39

guy did time himself, and I'm like oh my gosh.

2:41

That's perfect timing. We got to have this guy on

2:44

yeah fascinating interviews So you might want

2:46

to buckle in for this one because

2:48

it's it's it's unlike any other bad

2:50

crypto that we've done up into This

2:52

point I think especially the topic wise

2:54

so I think you're gonna enjoy this

2:57

little little convo with mr.. Sam Mangle

3:03

Sammy is Heading to

3:05

the clink It's

3:07

gonna be in the who's cow and

3:09

he's gonna be in a federal prison

3:12

And we have no idea what that's

3:14

gonna be like you know after seeing

3:16

as many TV shows and films as

3:19

we've seen we certainly have our suspicions

3:21

But we would thought we would talk

3:23

to somebody who not only can tell

3:25

us what it's gonna be like But

3:28

who's been there himself his name is

3:30

Sam Mangle, and he's a federal prison

3:32

consultant He helps white-collar offenders prepare for

3:35

incarceration, and he spent two years in

3:37

prison himself for doing something We're

3:39

gonna find out what but now he's

3:41

he's regularly on TV and in the

3:43

media He represents high-profile clients, and we're

3:45

gonna hear all about it today Sam

3:47

welcome to the bad crypto podcast Where

3:50

we will not be talking crypto at

3:52

all today Perfect nice

3:54

to meet both of you Excellent, so let's

3:56

start here. What did you do? What's your story?

3:58

How did you end up? doing

4:00

time. So 2016 it was April 7 o'clock

4:02

in the morning and I heard a knock

4:07

on my door. I just moved down

4:09

to South Florida and I look

4:11

outside opened up the door and there were 17 men

4:13

and women in the navy blue

4:16

FBI flag jackets holding guns

4:19

and I opened up the door and I thought,

4:21

God, you must be the wrong address. Maybe you're

4:23

looking for somebody else. They said, Sam

4:25

Mangle, I said yes, grabbed me by the shirt

4:27

collar, put me up against the wall with

4:29

a gun and handcuffed me.

4:31

I thought, you know, there's got to be

4:33

a mistake. No, no mistake. Toward

4:37

my house, my wife was in the shower at

4:39

the time, pulled her out of the shower and

4:41

took me up to the courthouse in West Palm

4:43

Beach where I was charged with one count of

4:45

wildfire. I owned a large

4:48

insurance brokerage entity through 2012.

4:52

My responsibility, I was the owner of the company, things

4:54

happened there that shouldn't have happened and

4:56

therefore I accept responsibility. Two

4:59

years later, I was in

5:01

front of a judge in Philadelphia after

5:03

being promised by my attorney, you're

5:06

getting probation. There is nothing wrong. You

5:08

are fine. First time offender. Remember

5:11

the the prosecutor set up

5:13

recommended probation and

5:15

the judge, my turn to talk, the judge

5:17

said, do you have anything to say? Yes,

5:20

your honor. I didn't, you know, foolish of

5:22

me. I didn't do it. This is silly. And yet I

5:24

accepted a plea. Absolutely

5:26

not. You know, I had no form

5:28

of contrition. I didn't accept responsibility. I

5:30

was far from humble and

5:32

I just remembered the judge and Philly looking down at me

5:34

and saying, Mr. Mangle, you clearly

5:37

don't understand what you did. You were no

5:39

different than any vagrant on the street. Twenty

5:42

minutes later said, I'm

5:44

doing something I rarely do. I'm

5:46

sentencing you to 60 months in federal prison.

5:49

I thought he said six and

5:51

I looked down at my attorney. Last time I looked at

5:54

my attorney ever and he wrote 60 on

5:56

a legal pad and circled it three or four times. Then

5:59

the judge said no one can

6:01

leave the room and

6:04

you're being remanded to the custody of the

6:06

Bureau of Prisons. As far

6:08

as I knew, you know minimum white collar offender,

6:10

you get time to turn yourself in and you

6:12

know I get to choose where I'm going. Absolutely

6:16

not. I turned to my wife and

6:18

I thought I was going to be away for four years and two months.

6:20

85% rule, serve

6:22

85% of the time in

6:24

federal prison. Marshals came,

6:26

took off my cufflinks, my belt, my

6:29

wallet, my shoelaces, shackled

6:32

me and walked me to the bowels of

6:34

the Philadelphia Detention Center. And

6:36

this is where I can kind of understand

6:39

where Sam Bankman Fried is going

6:41

through right now and where he's been.

6:43

And I remember after spending an

6:45

hour in a

6:48

hole with 19 other people that

6:50

were just taken off the street, some

6:52

were clearly strong island drugs. It's a

6:54

federal facility going up

6:56

to my floor and

6:58

you know carrying my bedroll and

7:01

a guard said to me, that's

7:03

your cell. It's a real cell with a

7:05

door just behind you. And

7:07

there was a young fellow in there with

7:09

two teardrops on his eyes and

7:12

he looked at me

7:14

and the first thought he said you know are

7:16

you a child offender? Because no

7:18

white collar, white small

7:20

Jewish guy gets thrown into federal prison

7:22

or remands in the custody. Highly unusual.

7:26

And I thought you know I'm gonna die

7:28

right here. And we're sitting

7:30

down at the 30 minutes somehow he

7:33

found out I was not a child

7:35

offender. I didn't know that people in

7:38

detention centers and jails have phones and

7:40

iPads. And he

7:42

said to me 30 minutes later you

7:44

know I never met a Jew before. And

7:47

the only thing I could think of saying was that's

7:49

funny I never met a gang member before. And

7:52

I couldn't stop the words from coming out of my mouth

7:54

and I thought for sure that's it I'm gonna die on

7:57

this spot. And

8:00

all of a sudden he smiled, his gold teeth are

8:02

showing, and he said, we're going to

8:04

get along just fine. Six

8:06

weeks later, and again, I'm in the pillar

8:08

of the detention center, which is the worst

8:11

of the worst. It's where Sam Bankman Fried

8:13

is. I've got clients who know him in

8:15

the Brooklyn MCC. Six

8:18

weeks later, I was told to pack up, didn't

8:21

know where I was going, put me on a bus. Two

8:24

weeks later, I showed up at the camp in Miami, where

8:26

this was a camp. I

8:29

thought I was going to begin with, and

8:32

I was out in 21 months. So 60-month sentence,

8:35

out in 21. Could

8:37

have been worse, but I've learned a

8:39

heck of a lot. And now

8:42

I use that experience and

8:44

understanding of a horribly punitive

8:46

system to help people

8:49

get through it. And it's

8:51

a terrible system. I

8:54

tell all of my clients, and I

8:56

would tell this to Sam Bankman Fried,

8:58

probably CZ as well, who's going to

9:00

be going through this. You're

9:03

going to be OK. You're not going to Oz. You're

9:06

going to a low security facility, not

9:08

a camp yet. But as

9:11

long as you follow certain protocols and everything,

9:14

you will get through it. So that's

9:16

my experience. That's

9:19

fascinating, Sam, going through that whole

9:21

experience. Because for one, 17 FBI

9:23

agents knocking on your door. For

9:25

one, that's going to make you

9:27

go, what the? What's going on

9:29

here? Oh, damn. And now

9:31

you're booked, and now you're going down the

9:33

river and all. And then I could just

9:35

imagine how pissed off you probably were

9:38

sitting in court, and you said you were

9:40

less than humble. I can imagine you probably

9:42

wasn't the most polite to the judge, which

9:44

is understandable in a scenario like that. And

9:46

judge is like, oh, really? You're going to

9:48

go this route, then? Well, guess what? I'm

9:51

going to do something I don't normally do.

9:53

And you're going in there with Jimmy with

9:55

the two teardrops, which you saw the teardrop.

9:57

Isn't that like every teardrop is like you

9:59

murdered somebody? or something. It was actually his

10:01

name, I think Jimmy two teardrops. Well,

10:05

he was there 30 years to life, life sentence

10:07

for dealing fentanyl 30 years old. And what's interesting

10:09

is this fellow grew

10:11

up 15 miles from where I grew up in

10:13

South Jersey. And we never would have crossed paths,

10:16

except in prison. And

10:18

it's an interesting dichotomy of

10:21

two people that

10:23

you learn to get along with, you know, for

10:26

him, it was somewhat comfortable. You know, he was

10:28

given his three meals a day, he was safer

10:30

than all the streets, which is, you know, what

10:32

you see a lot these camps.

10:35

For me, it was scary.

10:37

And you learn real quickly, your P's and

10:39

Q's. And it helped me

10:42

when I finally got to the camp, where

10:44

the camp was much calmer, you

10:47

know, cancer community custody, God forbid, there's

10:49

a hurricane, and they need people to

10:51

put those sandbags in Miami, the

10:54

camp sends their inmates there. So

10:56

it's a different environment. For

11:00

example, sandbag three will never won't see that,

11:03

probably for the better part, at least seven years,

11:06

while he makes his way through the system. So

11:09

what does describe, you know, when you're you're

11:11

there in the cage, so to speak, what's

11:14

what's it look like in this low

11:16

security white collar, it's not a country

11:19

club. They don't feed

11:21

you slop. It's not Shawshank Redemption,

11:23

right? What you know,

11:25

give us a day in the life of

11:29

So where he is now in the detention

11:31

center is the worst other than transit. And

11:33

I tell people for him to get and I'm

11:35

guessing this is a guess he's going to go

11:38

to lompoc low spell

11:41

that it will. L O M

11:43

P O C lompoc. It's just

11:45

like Central California for

11:47

him to get from New York where he is

11:49

now to lompoc. I'm guessing will take

11:51

him to better part of six weeks. Diesel

11:54

therapy. Diesel therapy is where they put you

11:56

on a bus your shackled legs and arm

11:59

irons in a in

12:01

a jumpsuit, where

12:03

you make multiple stops. So probably

12:05

from Brooklyn, where he's locked up,

12:09

right, he was locked up from usually

12:11

9.30 at night till

12:14

6 in the morning, closed behind the door. The

12:17

next stop might be Philadelphia Federal Detention

12:20

Center, because the BOP doesn't do anything

12:22

efficiently. You leapfrog.

12:25

From Philadelphia, they'll probably put him on

12:27

another bus, probably in Philadelphia for a

12:29

couple weeks. Go to Harrisburg, where they

12:31

put you on a plane to Oklahoma.

12:33

Oklahoma Transfer Center is the largest transfer

12:35

center for inmates in the country. It

12:38

actually sits at the edge of a

12:40

runway. He'll

12:42

be there with all sorts of folks that

12:44

are going throughout the country, probably for a

12:46

couple weeks. But they probably will then transfer

12:48

him to Perof, Nevada. And ultimately, he will

12:51

be bused into Lompoc, maybe

12:53

six to eight weeks. It is miserable.

12:55

You never know when you're moving, or you're

12:57

moving to highly uncomfortable.

13:01

Once he gets to Lompoc, so certain

13:03

low security facilities, the older ones, and I

13:05

don't believe Lompoc is one of these, still

13:08

have cells. And the cells are

13:10

not like what you see in the background of your

13:12

screens. There's a metal door with

13:14

a little slit and a

13:16

place where you can serve food if you're on

13:18

lockdown. Other than that, two

13:20

men in a cell, a little stainless

13:22

steel toilet with a top that is used

13:24

for washing your face and hands.

13:27

Usually, you can do three flushes per

13:29

hour, and a

13:31

little locker and a place to

13:33

sit. Maybe it's six

13:35

feet wide by 15 feet long with

13:38

a little slit of a window. Most

13:41

low security facilities are not like

13:43

that anymore. Most are what's

13:45

called open pods. So in an

13:47

open pod, you'll typically

13:49

see a four foot high

13:52

cinder block walls separating usually

13:54

six to eight bunk beds in

13:57

that pod, where there are

13:59

no barbed beds. or cell

14:01

doors, you can actually leave the

14:03

pod to go to the bathroom or showers. It's

14:06

a kitchen area, a little

14:08

rec area during the day in the televisions.

14:10

So if he does go

14:12

there and not to an older facility,

14:15

chances are he will

14:17

have that type of situation. I

14:19

was just doing some research to see

14:22

who showed up and Lori Loughlin showed

14:25

up, I guess her husband spent time

14:27

in Lompoc. Yeah. Or

14:29

that college tuition fraud thing.

14:33

Funny, the first case I got, I

14:35

used to work for a different firm

14:37

and when I first came out of

14:39

the camp in Miami, the firm

14:41

asked me would I be willing to speak to him

14:43

because I was the most recent getting him into prison.

14:45

I remember the first question he asked me, which I

14:47

felt was strange was, am I going

14:50

to be able to drink once I get the supervised release? Which

14:52

is a really strange question for somebody going

14:54

into prison to be concerned with. All

14:57

the folks in the college tuition scandal

14:59

went to camps. So

15:02

a camp is different. Eventually,

15:04

Camp Bankford 3 will get to a

15:06

camp, but you have

15:09

to have 10 years, roughly or

15:11

less, remaining on your sentence to

15:13

be camp eligible. So

15:15

camps are usually very wide open. They

15:18

might be small, like almost dormitory

15:20

size rooms, no door, two

15:23

to four guys in there or smaller pods.

15:26

But it's going to be quite a few years before he gets there.

15:29

I can tell you about Lompoc. I have a number

15:31

of clients at the low there. I send a lot

15:34

of clients by design today. Most

15:36

of my foreign nationals. So

15:39

if you're a white collar offender, that's

15:41

a non-US citizen, you can't go to

15:43

a camp because at the end of

15:45

your sentence, IECZ,

15:48

if he is sentenced to prison, he's not

15:50

camp eligible, which means he's going to have

15:52

to go to a low because typically they place an

15:54

ice container on you and then you're

15:56

deported at the end of your sentence. So

15:59

Lompoc, How does one of the better

16:01

lows. As if they are

16:04

Danbury of east coast but again.

16:07

It's regulated, so while he is allowed

16:09

out at least six in the morning

16:11

to nine thirty at night, Abdulla.

16:14

Four o'clock stand up camp during the

16:16

week. Stand by a bad show your

16:18

I d on this controlled movement of

16:20

those. Which. Means you can't

16:22

move from your door. To.

16:25

Rak were to the library or

16:27

to the the chow hall. other

16:29

than ten before the hour until

16:31

the our ten minutes to move.

16:33

If you're caught in that ten

16:35

minutes someplace else you have to

16:37

stay there until the next control

16:39

move. So. He

16:42

is that there is great a

16:44

restriction are in a low and

16:46

he's gonna need some. Interesting

16:48

people. He blows. I.

16:51

Did you have a do house? a

16:53

Sex offenders. They. Do housed

16:55

on violent individuals that might have

16:57

moved down through the system from

17:00

high to through a medium to

17:02

allow. Go. Never make it

17:04

to a camp, but you'll

17:06

end up serving a list

17:08

once years of their sentence.

17:10

Ala Lompoc Terminal Iowans it's

17:12

in Los Angeles are demographically

17:14

more challenge than certain other

17:16

camps, so they have a

17:18

certain percentage of. On

17:21

Jane's not necessarily

17:23

violence, but. You

17:25

find that people tend to click. got a

17:28

lot more. In. That situation than you

17:30

would it a kid. And he's

17:32

gonna have to figure out how to do it. Yeah,

17:34

it's it's It's interesting because I

17:36

look at this and I say

17:39

okay, Sam Bagman fried He scammed

17:41

When you look at what he

17:43

did. Billions of dollars, right? He.

17:45

Also, follow some of that back some

17:48

very powerful political people, right? So I

17:50

was looking at is like while he's

17:52

probably not going to get much of

17:55

a sentence realistically before all this stuff

17:57

went down, The. knowing how to his

17:59

mother and his father were sort of tied in

18:01

to what was kind of going on.

18:03

Now you can see, if you dive down

18:06

the rabbit hole, you can see there's some stuff going

18:08

on that the parents sort of propped him up. And

18:10

so he's almost like the fall guy. And

18:12

so I would be curious about

18:15

anything that's going to happen to

18:17

his parents. But aside from that,

18:19

I look at Sam Bangman Free

18:21

got 25 years, Ross Ulbrich got

18:23

two life sentences plus 40 years.

18:26

And so like, what's the method to the

18:29

madness on how these things are even how

18:31

the sentences come down on these folks? Ultimately,

18:34

it's up to the judge. And I tell

18:37

people federal judge is truly a judge during

18:39

execution. They're appointed for life. They don't have

18:41

to make excuses, just like my judge sentenced

18:43

me to five times greater than my guidelines.

18:48

Judge Kaplan is known for

18:50

being a more compassionate federal

18:52

judge. He's an older, certainly

18:54

very established federal judge in

18:57

New York. And I

18:59

believe in this case, he

19:01

felt that and I know people that sat in

19:04

during the sentencing, that

19:06

you have a young man that has this whole future ahead

19:08

of him. And he didn't want to

19:10

punish him for life. So he's

19:12

going to be in prison for the next 17 or 18 years. And

19:16

you can explain why it's going to be that amount of time and

19:18

not 25. But that's

19:20

a long time for a young man. And

19:24

I think that at some point,

19:26

a judge, a fair judge has

19:28

to decide what

19:30

is the appropriate punishment for

19:33

an individual that is 31, 32 years old, that has

19:35

their whole life ahead of

19:38

them, but still got,

19:41

you know, was charged and found guilty of

19:43

what, $11 billion of fraud. So

19:47

there is a line that

19:49

a federal judge walks between being overly

19:51

punitive and harsh and being fair. He

19:56

won't, same as if he won't get out until he's probably 50. And

19:59

even when he's 50, he's not 50. out. In

20:01

the BOP there's in custody and out custody

20:03

so even when he's out he's still going

20:06

to be probably for about 18 months under

20:09

the tutelage of the Bureau of Prisons whether

20:11

it's in a halfway house which is not

20:13

pleasant or on home confinement with a monitor

20:15

around his leg he's going

20:17

to still be in there for a period of

20:19

time and I'm guessing 18 maybe 24 months out

20:22

custody you know and he's going

20:24

to be in his 50s so and he's forever

20:27

going to have to report to supervise

20:29

your lease and then

20:31

probably three years and after that for 20

20:34

years he's covered under financial

20:36

litigation unit so he's

20:38

going to be reporting and under

20:40

somebody's thumb probably for the rest of his life. Yeah

20:44

I guess stories now we're saying

20:46

that he's feeling remorse now

20:48

for his actions but he's also said he

20:51

didn't believe that what he was doing was

20:54

illegal and you know

20:56

maybe just bad advice so how does

21:01

somebody cope with you know what one

21:03

moment you have your freedom and

21:05

the next you don't and

21:08

you know that you don't hit in your case

21:11

you're like okay it's gonna be a couple

21:13

years I can probably figure out how to

21:15

cope with this although days go on and

21:17

on but when you're gonna be in there

21:19

for a decade or more what do

21:21

you what do you do how do you mentally rearrange

21:25

how you think so that you

21:27

can survive and maybe thrive. You

21:31

want to be as productive as possible when

21:33

you're in a situation which is not meant

21:36

to provide opportunity for you or activities or

21:39

structure you want to make yourself as

21:41

productive as possible so as an example

21:43

where I was in Miami the only

21:45

person that I felt close to and

21:47

talked to and walked with every night

21:49

was Peter Madoff Bernie's brother a

21:52

couple years older than me but a

21:54

fascinating fellow and inmates can

21:56

teach classes at night the cold century they

21:58

can teach classes to other inmates So

22:00

he might have taught business law or

22:02

physicians might have taught help from that

22:04

over 50 or yoga I

22:06

think this is an opportunity for him

22:08

to teach other inmates what

22:11

he knows about crypto and about Finance

22:14

and put his knowledge to

22:17

use not only to benefit other inmates but

22:20

to keep himself out of trouble and I

22:22

say that because He's

22:24

going to encounter a lot of challenges Because

22:27

he's going to be in a low or

22:29

a camp which I think are

22:31

going to be putting him at risk And

22:34

due to him having you

22:36

know his own personal challenges.

22:39

I think he's going to be more susceptible And

22:42

I worry that that's going to get

22:44

him either more time in

22:46

prison not additional necessary charges But

22:48

losing certain good times and and

22:50

and credits but could get him

22:52

transferred to a higher level Because

22:55

the nature of a low and

22:57

a minimum are it's a wide

22:59

open environment He's going

23:01

to see cell phones everywhere. He's

23:04

going to see iPads everywhere look

23:06

for drugs. I Understand

23:09

that he's right now starved for the internet

23:11

and communication That

23:15

he can't have where he is. Although I have

23:17

another client That's currently where he is now and

23:19

he calls me every day from to sell for

23:22

which is mind boggling to me But

23:25

in a low, you know, I remember in the camp

23:27

There were 80 beds in my dorm at

23:29

night when I used to walk up and back, you

23:31

know to the bathroom It looked like a lit up

23:33

Christmas tree 50 guys had cell phones and iPads. So

23:36

he's going to see that and Knowing

23:39

that that he might not have a

23:41

discipline certainly As time

23:44

goes on to say no or to say,

23:46

you know The guy's sleeping above his on

23:48

his iPad one night and face timing his

23:50

loved ones or surfing the internet or whatever

23:52

he's doing I think same as he's

23:54

gonna have a tough time saying

23:56

no or distancing

23:58

itself from that So to be clear,

24:01

that's part of his sentence. No technology is

24:03

that. Well, wouldn't be part of

24:05

the sentence because you don't expect there to be

24:08

technology in federal prison. Right. Right.

24:10

You know, they're not

24:12

going to say you can't have something that then it

24:15

would force them to acknowledge is already

24:17

there and they have a problem. Yeah. Well,

24:19

everybody's like 50 people. You're in a

24:22

room with 80 people and 50 of them have a cell phone.

24:24

It wouldn't seem like it would be too

24:26

hard to like kick off wifi or to

24:28

have one of those wifi or cell phone

24:30

blockers just so the internet couldn't get out.

24:33

I know I go to, you go to

24:35

a school sometimes and they shut it off.

24:37

Why wouldn't they shut it off at a

24:39

prison? That doesn't make any sense logically. Unions,

24:42

federal guards, uh, federal unions from FIBB,

24:44

because if they turn it off for

24:46

the, the inmates, it would also turn

24:48

it down because of the proximity of

24:50

everybody for the guards and the staff.

24:52

So the union say no blockers.

24:55

That's a well-known issue within.

24:58

But why are they allowed to have phones

25:00

at all? Not allowed to have, but again,

25:02

so my example in a camp, my

25:04

camp was right on the main road, my first Friday night

25:06

of the camp, a guy came up to me and said,

25:09

Hey, Mangle, I'm going out for dinner tonight. What

25:11

do you want? We

25:13

just had dinner two hours ago. It

25:15

said Mangle. And I was afraid because it's

25:17

a seven foot two really built well guide

25:19

tattoos everywhere, uh, had gold teeth

25:21

and I didn't want to insult them. He

25:24

said, no, Mangle is Friday night. I'm going out

25:26

for ribs and chicken, Chinese or

25:28

burger game. And so how do I

25:30

pay you? And he said, no, have, have

25:32

your baby mama sent it to my baby mama. I

25:34

didn't know what that was. I didn't know what that

25:36

was. So I had to ask the guy above me,

25:38

what the heck's a baby mama? I learned that. So

25:41

he, I said, all right, get me some

25:43

chicken fried rice. Sure enough, two hours later,

25:45

I see the seven foot two, you know, fellow coming

25:47

in back into the unit carrying

25:49

a mesh laundry bag, five pies of

25:52

pizza. He came over. Oh, and he asked

25:54

me what I wanted to drink. I said, no, it

25:56

was soda. Mangle it's a Friday night. It's beer back

25:58

in Clovace. I say, come

26:01

on. So he got bad for

26:03

me. I didn't want anything to drink. He brought

26:05

me two Krispy Kreme donuts. So camps, many

26:07

camps don't have fences around them. You want to leave, you

26:10

leave. You're

26:12

a fugitive if you get caught. In

26:14

Lowe's, there are really no walls.

26:17

People throw things over the fences. Unfortunately,

26:19

guards bring things in. And drones. Drones

26:22

are constantly dropping things down into

26:24

camp yards. Wow.

26:27

Well, at least that 7-foot-2 guy, when you

26:29

asked what he wanted, didn't say, well, you

26:31

sure got a pretty mouth for it. And

26:35

I was afraid to insult him because I was afraid

26:37

I was going to get stabbed. It's my first Friday

26:39

night there. And this guy said, maybe he's setting me

26:41

up. But when he came back

26:43

afterwards and he handed me my quart of

26:45

rice and he handed me a little brown paper bag

26:48

and I said, what's in the bag? He

26:50

said, Mangle, you got nothing to drink. I felt bad. I

26:52

got you two Krispy Kreme donuts. All

26:54

right. I'm going to be just fine.

26:56

Man, that's crazy. So we all

26:58

know prison is very profitable. There's

27:02

a private prison system. And so while

27:04

you were talking, I was sort of

27:06

going, wait a second. So we have

27:08

these judges that are on the seat

27:11

for life, dishing out

27:14

penalties to people at their own

27:16

discretion, essentially. And

27:19

what's to stop them from

27:21

working with private prisons and

27:24

getting their own? If it's on the down low, if they don't

27:26

know, judge, they're

27:28

unfireable. Most people in federal

27:30

government are unfireable, really. You

27:34

get like a permanent tenure and

27:36

you're there forever unless you want

27:38

to walk away. And so I

27:40

think prison, there needs to be

27:42

some reform with it because prison

27:44

is so profitable. And so have

27:46

you noticed any discrepancies in maybe

27:48

how some judges are doing

27:50

stuff or whatever? Because it seems to me

27:52

like that could be a very big

27:54

problem because I don't like private prisons

27:57

anyway. And then when they...

27:59

guys are staying on for as long as they are,

28:02

then that seems like that could be a recipe for

28:04

corruption. So they can make a little extra money. So

28:07

let me first explain there are no private prisons

28:09

in the federal system anymore. They did away with

28:11

those maybe four or five years ago. Okay, in

28:13

Miami, I was with federal systems. Okay, okay.

28:17

In Miami, I was with a

28:19

former judge in Pennsylvania, that did

28:21

exactly what you're saying he was

28:23

sentencing minors children to these private

28:25

facilities, and getting kickbacks from

28:27

the facilities. He got a 22 year

28:30

sentence. So the state system

28:32

has private facilities, the federal system

28:34

does not also, while

28:36

a judge can recommend where a

28:38

defendant goes to serve their time.

28:41

Ultimately, it's up to Grand Prairie, the

28:43

Bureau of Prisons, to designate that person

28:45

based upon a number of different factors.

28:49

Distance from home, the length of the sentence,

28:51

what programs are eligible for. You know, it's

28:53

something we help with is designation. So

28:57

they definitely have

28:59

a Chinese wall between a judge and

29:01

what they can do in the

29:04

federal system, and where the BOP takes over.

29:06

The profit for all that in

29:09

the federal system is internal. So

29:12

the inmates make the profit

29:14

on the contraband. And

29:19

the currency, which Sam Bankman Free is going to learn

29:21

real fast, our stamps and

29:23

packets of tuna, or packets of mackerel.

29:26

You know, things are traded internally. If

29:29

you want somebody to do his

29:31

laundry or make his bed or, you

29:33

know, a cook for him, because

29:36

these are all things that happen in

29:38

lower security facilities, you have

29:40

to pay them. And how do

29:42

you pay them? Internally, with currency,

29:44

you know, stamps and packages of

29:46

tuna fish and mackerel. So

29:49

when their parents is going to put money on

29:51

his books or whatever, right, then he's going to

29:53

go to the store or whatever

29:55

it's called, and they're going to buy he's

29:57

going to buy these things and use utilize

30:00

those as ways to barter. The

30:02

barter system coming back full. He

30:04

should take Bitcoin. That would

30:06

be the thing you do. He should take

30:08

the STX tokens. Is

30:12

there a prohibition from doing any

30:14

type of enterprise? Not

30:17

enterprise within the prison, selling to

30:19

inmates, but to build a business

30:21

that can be

30:24

growing in the real world. You're

30:27

not permitted to conduct business while you're

30:29

inside. You're supposed to be rehabilitating yourself.

30:31

Do people run businesses in the inside? Absolutely.

30:34

Again, I work with CEOs and people

30:36

that have ongoing businesses that were in

30:38

for one thing, but they have a

30:40

business to go back to. They

30:42

run their business. They oversee it in a

30:44

way which doesn't

30:47

necessarily run afoul of

30:49

the system. He can create a

30:51

business. I guarantee there are going to be more

30:53

people coming up to him saying, Sam, look at

30:55

my business plan. He's going to

30:57

have a line of inmates that are going to say, what do

30:59

you think of this business plan or this business plan? He's

31:02

going to get a book deal too. Guaranteed

31:04

he's writing his book while he's

31:06

in prison. He'll probably get millions

31:09

for that from somebody, some publishing house.

31:11

It's going to be probably seized for restitution. Any

31:14

proceeds will probably be taken. The

31:16

other thing is, and this is

31:18

an interesting nuance for people that

31:20

other inmates suspect of having a

31:22

pile of money hidden. I saw

31:24

this with Peter Madoff. Inmates

31:28

that are very successful

31:30

and people

31:33

think have money stashed away somewhere. Other

31:36

inmates will try to give

31:40

them money in an

31:42

extorting way. Not

31:46

necessarily violence, but they're going to

31:49

think there's a pot of gold that he has out there. They

31:51

think they're getting out five years before him and they're going to

31:53

find that pot of gold. Can you do

31:55

a podcast from within prison walls? A prison

31:58

cast? I hope so. have

32:00

another client, as I mentioned to you,

32:02

that is trying to arrange a interview

32:05

now from prison.

32:07

The problem is, unless you get

32:09

approval from the warden, and that can be done

32:11

in the warden's office, they're

32:14

very security conscious. They won't allow

32:16

cameras into a federal prison like to do

32:18

in state prisons. He can certainly

32:20

use the prison phone, you're allowed 15 minutes per call.

32:23

You can use that 15 minutes to call

32:25

into a show and talk. He has

32:27

to be careful what he says, because it

32:29

is subject to being monitored. He wasn't careful

32:31

at all what he was saying. He was

32:33

tweeting shit. Like I was like, dude, have

32:35

you talked? Have you talked to your counselor

32:37

about things like this? That's what's so weird.

32:39

And the answer, Joel would be if you're

32:41

in the camp and you're in a pod,

32:43

it would be a podcast. So they

32:45

would still do that. Totally. Check your signal.

32:47

I just sent them I just sent a message

32:49

over. And we can share this

32:52

on screen here. So FTX executives, they

32:54

have settled this fraud lawsuit

32:56

now, right? So we got Gary Wang,

32:58

the FTX co founder. And then you

33:01

got Carolyn Ellison, the former CEO of

33:03

Alameda. They have basically

33:05

it looks like they have at

33:07

least they have done

33:10

something here to settle some stuff. So

33:13

does it look like maybe they might

33:15

be out of the out

33:17

of the woods as far as as them

33:19

potentially go into prison? Because it seemed to me like

33:21

more than just more than just sbf

33:24

should probably be punished for this. Look at

33:26

the settlement amount, Trev 1.35 million. That's the

33:29

settlement. Yeah. And action

33:31

lawsuit. Tiny. Yeah. Yeah.

33:33

Here's the analogy I use. You

33:35

walk into a bank and you rob them. Now

33:38

or later, you realize rob them and they put the police

33:41

put out an APB and you heard your name mentioned

33:43

on the radio or on television, you decide you want to

33:45

return the money. You are

33:47

still being charged for Robert. So

33:51

while I can't predict what's going to happen

33:53

to the co defendants in the case, they

33:55

certainly I know Carolyn Ellison did cooperate. I

33:57

believe they will get

33:59

downward departures. significant downward departures.

34:02

I do not believe they will, in my opinion,

34:04

they will avoid prison. Just

34:07

due to the nature

34:09

of the charges and the players

34:11

involved, and the fact is extremely high

34:13

profile, but they will get downward departures.

34:17

Speaking of high profile, before we

34:19

started recording, you mentioned Peter Navarro,

34:22

who was in the Trump

34:24

administration. What's your connection to

34:26

him and he's off to

34:28

prison now, right? Yeah, so actually

34:30

I was standing directly to, where

34:33

he's pointing during that press interview. I

34:35

was Peter's consultant, I still am Peter's

34:37

consultant. I took him down

34:40

to surrender to Camp Miami. He

34:42

and I speak regularly. I'm

34:45

trying to help him navigate the

34:47

next, or the total 90 days he'll be there. And

34:52

somewhat atypical surrender, I have to admit.

34:54

When I was dropped off to the

34:56

Camp Miami, I was in shackles and

34:58

I spent the first two nights in the show because

35:01

they didn't have my paperwork. When

35:03

we dropped Peter off, he was met by

35:05

prison staff and

35:07

really walked through the system in

35:10

a much more civil manner. So

35:13

I think his experience

35:15

is dramatically different than mine and will

35:17

be dramatically different than

35:19

Sam Beckman-Fleeves. It's

35:21

fascinating how the system, I

35:25

talk to a lot of people and they

35:27

just don't trust the system anymore. They don't

35:29

think it works for them. They can see

35:31

that there's the justice system and there's the

35:33

just us system. Like some people create, like

35:35

for example, Sam, like

35:37

let's just go in and say, you

35:40

know, like, you know, JP Morgan or

35:42

something, they do some crazy, they

35:44

basically do some stuff, manipulate markets and they make

35:46

billions of dollars and then they have to pay

35:48

a fine of like a couple

35:50

hundred, a couple hundred million dollars, right?

35:53

You're like, well, dude, that's the cost of

35:55

doing business for them at a certain point,

35:57

right? And it's like, if nobody, like nobody

35:59

really, got in trouble for the 2008

36:01

collapse of all the stuff. Nobody really got

36:03

in trouble for that. You

36:06

start seeing political people who are on one

36:08

side not getting anything happen to them, and

36:10

then you can see people who are just

36:12

kind of like Peter Navarro, who's just like,

36:14

oh, he's associated with

36:17

this guy. So boom, they're going to

36:19

throw the book at him. It's just

36:21

so if you just step back and

36:23

you look at this, and let's just

36:25

say you're not even American, you look

36:27

at this and you go, wow, this

36:30

is very clearly, they're politically prosecuting political

36:32

opponents at this point. And

36:34

it's not even remotely fair.

36:36

Right. So as somebody who

36:39

does consulting, and you're just helping people sort

36:41

of, you got to deal with this, you

36:43

got to deal with that. How does the

36:45

system change? Like what kind of solutions could

36:47

we have to make it not be shitty

36:49

for everyone who's not agreeing with the other

36:51

side? It's weird. So I

36:53

often ask the question by people getting

36:55

ready to be sentenced, and they owe money

36:57

to have victims. And the logic is it was

37:00

my logic as well. Why

37:02

would the judge want to put me

37:04

behind bars and prevent me from earning

37:06

a living to repay my victims? Wouldn't

37:08

it be better for me to be

37:10

earning a living, repaying my victims even

37:12

quicker, as opposed to being a burden

37:14

of the taxpayer at $180

37:17

a day to keep me there? Wouldn't it

37:19

make sense for me, I'm a

37:21

convicted felon, I will always have that, that's

37:24

my scarlet letter. But wouldn't it

37:26

be better for me to now, I don't want

37:28

to use the term debtor's prison, but wouldn't it

37:30

be better for me to repay my victims? I

37:33

work with a ton of foreign nationals. And

37:35

one of the first things that we discuss is

37:39

treat or transfer. Because what is

37:41

a charge here, a crime here,

37:43

or a sentence here, is not

37:45

anywhere close to what they would

37:47

have encountered in their country. Canada,

37:49

the UK, Israel, India, South

37:51

Korea. So do they

37:53

have a fair justice system when it comes

37:55

to punishment? Probably. And

37:57

that's why their goal is to get out

38:00

of the United States system as quickly as possible

38:02

to go back to their home country. But

38:05

I think, you know, I

38:07

only represent white collar individuals. I don't

38:09

represent sex offenders or violent criminals. And

38:12

that's my choice. But if

38:15

I had a choice as a victim of

38:17

Sam Bankman free or any

38:20

of my clients, and the judge

38:22

would say to me, do you

38:24

want me to send them to prison for five years or 20

38:26

years, or you lost $100,000? If

38:30

he's out, you might be able to recoup 25,000 of

38:32

that over the next five years. Or

38:35

how, what would you rather do? And

38:37

yes, emotions are stirred up

38:40

with victims. Everybody wants, you

38:42

know, some form

38:44

of punishment. But when you

38:46

start thinking about it, is it better

38:49

to get some of your money back that

38:51

you lost? Or how happy are you that

38:53

the guy's going to be in prison for 17 or 18 more years?

38:56

You're not going to see anything. And

38:58

okay, you got your pound of fresh. But

39:01

you're, you know, you're still out of money. Yeah.

39:04

When people start to think along those

39:06

lines, I think that, you

39:08

know, you might see a different form

39:10

of punishment for

39:13

nonviolent white collar offenders,

39:16

maybe more non-custodial time where they can

39:18

be home and working and paying taxes

39:21

and being more productive to society. Just

39:23

not only is he not going to

39:25

pay back his victims, he's

39:27

costing the three of us $180 a day for

39:30

the next 17 years plus inflation.

39:34

Let me add this real quick, Joel. So

39:37

FTX had all these assets.

39:40

They've invested in all these startups, several of

39:42

which I think are probably going to pop

39:44

off as already a couple that are. They

39:47

had a shitload of Solana crypto tokens, some

39:49

of which they've just dumped into the market

39:51

at a substantial loss, but they made, they

39:54

sold it for like $7 billion. Why

39:57

is it that these, these

39:59

victims. don't get some restitution. It

40:01

seems to me that most of them

40:03

could probably be made whole over time.

40:06

Why not? Well,

40:10

again, I think, and I'm not gonna

40:12

answer for Joel, but I think it's

40:14

my understanding of the settlement, of the

40:17

collection that a lot of the

40:20

victims are going to receive a substantial

40:22

percentage, 50 or 70% of

40:24

what they invested, not the appreciated

40:26

value. I gotcha, yeah, okay. That's

40:29

the disparity. So, listen, if I put in

40:31

10 grand in 2015,

40:35

and that 10,000 is now worth 35,000, I

40:39

might get seven of that 10 back, or 10

40:41

of it back. That's what

40:43

happened with the Mt. Gox collab back in

40:45

the day. It's like, oh, you invested $200

40:48

and you bought three Bitcoin, but here's your $200 back. And

40:52

I'm like, I don't know, Bitcoin's worth it. What

40:54

are you doing? Yeah, wow, that's crazy, bro. So,

40:57

are Trump's people calling you

40:59

for consultation? I mean, there's so much going

41:01

on there. So,

41:03

is the rule of thumb,

41:05

unless the person's already been sentenced and given

41:07

me permission to talk and mention their name,

41:09

I don't. Suffice

41:12

it to say, I have, especially since

41:15

the interview I had with CNN and

41:17

with Mr. Navarro, I

41:20

have a substantial number of clients

41:22

now in that world. What

41:26

I really want to know is, can you get us

41:28

some Trump sneakers? If

41:31

he lives about 21 miles north of me,

41:33

and I'm an avid cyclist, so every Saturday,

41:35

Sunday morning I ride by and I go

41:37

right by Mar-a-Lago, occasionally I see his motorcade

41:39

pulling out when he goes to play golf.

41:43

It's only worth $18 million, apparently. Oh,

41:45

right, right. It's got the most

41:47

land of anywhere. And he's caddy

41:50

cornered, I think, to Ken Griffin,

41:52

whose property is, I

41:54

think, $200 million, and it's not built

41:56

yet. So, yeah, it's a

41:58

spectacular property. So this

42:00

whole thing that happened in New York

42:02

to him, like, you know, no victims

42:05

to this so-called crime, just your personal

42:07

opinion, obviously you're not a

42:10

federal judge or anything, but let's say

42:12

that he doesn't win the election

42:14

and he's still citizen Trump. Is

42:16

he ever going to do any

42:18

prison time? No, I actually wrote

42:20

a blog about this. In my opinion, first

42:22

of all, if you were to serve federal, I

42:24

can't talk state, although I think any governor would

42:26

commute a sentence. If he were to

42:29

be charged and sentenced, if I'm guilty

42:31

in a federal matter, I do

42:33

not believe the federal government, the Bureau

42:35

of Prisons, has the wherewithal

42:38

and manpower to properly

42:40

polish him in

42:42

a custodial environment other than maybe in

42:45

general's quarters on a military base where

42:47

technically he would still be, you know,

42:49

confined or a home confinement. Keep

42:51

in mind, I think he's given, what, 21

42:53

secret service agents around the clock who are

42:56

armed and that is guaranteed to him,

42:58

unless taken away, I don't see that happening.

43:01

A prison camp is a communal environment. You

43:03

know, I had 80 people in my dorm.

43:06

I watched it. They're going to devote a whole dorm

43:08

to Trump and his secret service. They're

43:11

not- They're walking around some, with

43:13

all of his, all of his

43:16

secret service guards and stuff and

43:18

everywhere you go. They're

43:21

tremendously understaffed. They're

43:23

tremendously understaffed. I mean, the BOP is

43:25

so understaffed right now and camps get

43:27

the least staffing because it requires

43:30

the least amount of people from a custodial

43:32

point of view. There's

43:35

no way that he would

43:38

be properly and safely housed in

43:40

prison. If if, and this

43:42

is an extreme, and I think it happened to

43:44

a vice president many, many

43:47

years ago, if, or a

43:49

secretary, if for some reason

43:51

they wanted to house him somewhere, they would put him

43:53

on a military base in a general's house where

43:56

technically he's in custody. I don't

43:58

see that happening. I think

44:00

it'd be a really bad precedent for that to happen. A

44:03

bad president for the president. So

44:06

Trev, any further questions about the

44:08

big house, the cooler, the coop,

44:10

the lockup? Sam, it's

44:12

Friday night. I'm going to go get you some chicken

44:14

fried rice. Would you like

44:16

wontons or would you like some crab bread goon?

44:19

It's going to be fabulous. I'll bring back some donuts

44:21

for you. I'm

44:24

telling you the best key lime

44:26

cheesecake I ever had was

44:29

imprisoned. These guys make it in

44:32

a microwave or to cook things, they use an

44:34

iron. Keep in mind you have to tell them

44:36

if you want your clothes ironed not to use

44:38

the same iron they use to make fajitas. Oh

44:41

my gosh. You know, as long as we're

44:43

on stories here as we close out, what's

44:45

the scariest

44:47

thing that happened? Well, in your

44:50

term and what was the funniest

44:52

thing that happened? Scariest thing

44:54

is I remember seeing a young kid overdose

44:58

on some kind of drug and

45:00

I remember they closed off the section. But he

45:03

was in the middle of the two units

45:05

and I saw him flopping around on the

45:07

ground turning blue. The staff was not permitted

45:09

to touch him. That's part of the union

45:11

rules. They called medical. By

45:13

the time medical got there, he had already done. That

45:16

was the scariest. The funniest thing was you

45:18

guys are familiar to dim sum restaurants. So

45:20

every Saturday and Sunday morning, the guys who

45:23

would cook in the dorm, because everything gets

45:25

stolen from the kitchen. Guys

45:27

used to come back into our dorm with

45:29

30 baked chickens in their clothes to sell

45:31

into the unit. So every Saturday and Sunday

45:34

morning, guys would walk around, they would make

45:37

egg sandwiches, bacon, lettuce, tomato.

45:39

They would make fajitas

45:41

or cheesecake or apple pie. Now, these

45:43

are things maybe either from stolen things

45:45

from the kitchen or commissary and they

45:47

would walk around the unit selling it.

45:49

And one guy would sell it for

45:51

five stamps. So in

45:53

that environment, and it'll be a number of

45:56

years before Sam sees that, you

45:58

just have to wonder. What

46:01

the hell is the federal government spending $100

46:03

a day housing

46:05

me there when I could have been

46:08

paying my taxes and paying my victims?

46:11

It's counterintuitive, and

46:14

that gets back to how

46:16

inefficient and ludicrous a

46:19

lot of our – that part of our justice system

46:21

is. I'm going to say this,

46:23

Sam, and for those of you who are

46:25

tuning in, the next episode is going to

46:27

be with the Nomad Capitalist, and you're going

46:30

to find out why the U.S. passport is

46:32

number 44 overall. And

46:34

I think it has to do with the

46:36

freedoms and how they've been taken away over

46:38

time and how – what, isn't America now

46:40

the most – there's most

46:42

prisoners in a country or a

46:44

percentage of people in prison

46:46

or something? Not

46:49

great. Not great. So you guys are going to want

46:51

to tune in to the next episode because it really

46:53

talks about some of this stuff. So we really appreciate

46:56

you coming on, Sam. This was very interesting. Thank

46:59

you. My first podcast was good. Thank you. sam-mangel.com,

47:02

you guys can go read

47:04

all about. He is the

47:06

federal prison consultant, the FPC.

47:09

And if you want a free consult, that is compassionate,

47:11

personal, and expert. Sami is the guy – I mean,

47:14

does that look like a guy who's done time? I

47:16

don't know. He doesn't look that hardened to me. And

47:18

when you put the – when you put the –

47:20

here to the chin, you know, you look

47:22

like the warden. You're like the warden. Thanks

47:28

again, Sam. Appreciate it. Thank

47:30

you both very much. Captivity,

47:34

internment, imprisonment, impoundment,

47:36

confinement, incarceration, and

47:40

bondage. Wait. I

47:42

guess it's still bondage. But all those

47:44

things is what Sam talked about today.

47:46

And that was really a fascinating talk.

47:49

The guys are very interesting. And there's

47:51

nothing like hearing from somebody who's actually

47:53

had the experience of What

47:56

can be expected if you get convicted

47:58

and are sent to –? One

48:00

of these Federal Prison Our prisons

48:02

App. I gotta say I

48:04

would love some energy lime pie

48:06

for a deal as nobody makes

48:08

it better than on a on

48:10

a on a Pokey. It's a

48:12

of iron. I gotta say no

48:15

I suspicious or filthy. Sorry dude

48:17

you gotta think I'll get him

48:19

out. I look at the the

48:21

sentence that Spf got in. I

48:23

immediately felt sar amelie. My first

48:25

thought was forty five years always

48:27

It's and Ross Ulbricht gods two

48:29

life sentences. Their sporty year I

48:31

was I I think maybe that's.

48:33

Even an understanding of how gripped

48:35

a word whenever they first started

48:37

like oh my god, Everyone using

48:39

crypto as terrorists writes itself. Hopefully

48:42

they can do a revisit on

48:44

on. Mister. Albrecht because

48:46

my goodness like the he

48:48

got screwed Bryant. Yep!

48:50

Wall is pouring I can get

48:53

pardoned by the current does I'll

48:55

president, so maybe me monarch governor

48:57

in California, either whatever. Yep!

49:00

I humanity is is corrupt and are

49:02

definitely needs redemption. Were in a lot

49:05

of trouble Gang so lucky a nose

49:07

clean, mind your own business and swear

49:09

that I say and what you said

49:11

die at the end of that talk

49:14

with Sam is very true. This next

49:16

interview with thought with Andrew Henderson have

49:18

no med capitalist is another winner. The

49:20

guy is just chock full of information

49:22

and we went an hour with him

49:25

and it's can be coming up next

49:27

week's episode number seven Twenty one. See

49:29

you want to make. Sure that your

49:31

subscriber fide an that you're automatically download

49:33

episode so that one will show up

49:36

on your device ready to put in

49:38

your ear holes. Yeah. Absolutely we

49:40

finish. This was a one on the recording

49:42

here with Sam alone. I finished by a

49:44

great hog with yes we hope We never

49:46

talk to your year but has a. very

49:51

true size the guy i enjoy them

49:53

and you're right i have with episode

50:00

So, let you continue to

50:03

say that. The

50:21

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