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1:54

Hello, welcome to the Analyst Inside Cricket

1:56

with me, Simon Hughes. And

1:59

me, Simon Mann. Now,

2:01

a few weeks ago we

2:03

lamented the passing of one of

2:05

Gloucestershire, your county's favourite sons, Simon,

2:09

Mike Proctor, who passed away a

2:11

couple of weeks ago. And

2:13

today we heard the sad news of

2:16

the passing of one of England's greatest

2:18

ever cricketers, and arguably their

2:20

greatest ever spinner, Derek

2:22

Underwood, deadly as he was known, who

2:25

really was deadly. He

2:27

was an absolutely brilliant left arm

2:29

spinner and wonderful character, who I

2:31

knew pretty well actually and played

2:33

against. And it feels

2:36

like part of my childhood has gone actually because I

2:38

used to watch him play for Kent in the

2:40

1970s and 80s. Yeah, I

2:42

watched a lot of him. In

2:44

the 1970s he was sort of part of

2:46

my formative years of watching cricket and there

2:48

was the legend, deadly. If

2:51

you played on an uncovered pitch as

2:53

they did in those days, and it rained,

2:55

and then you went off the field, came

2:58

back on, Derek Underwood was bowling, you almost,

3:00

it felt, had no chance as a batting

3:02

side. He would just run straight through. He

3:04

was the greatest exponent, wasn't he, of bowling

3:08

on an uncovered pitch

3:10

that had taken rain. He

3:12

was so difficult to face.

3:14

Caught not bowled underwood, they

3:16

went together, not brilliant wicket

3:18

keeper, Derek Underwood, a brilliant

3:20

bowler. England's most successful

3:22

spinner in terms of Test match

3:24

wickets and two and a half

3:27

thousand wickets, two and a half

3:29

thousand first class wickets at

3:31

20. A fantastic bowler.

3:34

And you saw a lot of him yours and you

3:36

also played against him. He

3:39

was one of the first bowlers I watched

3:42

actually in the late 60s playing for Kent

3:44

and got an early chance for England.

3:46

He made his debut for Kent actually when he was 18. And

3:49

funnily enough, he's in a way, he's

3:51

a symbol of The

3:54

fact that cricket appeals to all

3:56

types and all types of athletic

3:58

or non-athletic bodies. Can succeed Because

4:01

Derek Underwood was not a vertically athletic

4:03

character. Amy had thought he had very

4:05

flat feet. You might remember them all.

4:07

Thirty twenty run up to Bali looked

4:09

as he was a waddling almost with

4:11

flippers on. but he only wasn't a

4:13

great athlete. He converted himself into a

4:15

a very fine left arm spinner. He

4:17

started as a medium pacer actually, but

4:19

then converted to left arm spin. and

4:21

I think part of the reason why

4:23

he was so good was because he

4:25

was a a former medium pacer. So

4:27

he bowled and at a rapid rate

4:29

a bit like. A Anil Kumble

4:31

a date for India as many years

4:33

later pills. I started as a medium

4:35

pacer and he was able to ally

4:37

that speed of on. With. A

4:39

club or change of pace and always

4:41

the able to to turn the ball.

4:44

But I suppose his whole not was

4:46

his accuracy. he was the nominally accurate.

4:48

He never wavered from that spot just

4:50

outside the of number on the off

4:52

stump to the right handers and I

4:55

remember watching him ball and big mesmerized

4:57

by hit the way accurate he was

4:59

and then thinking gonna have i never

5:01

facing and I did facing a mana

5:03

my first first class matches and over

5:06

there was no very good batsman idol.

5:08

Well. I don't know how

5:10

I'm going to deal with it and it

5:12

was a turning picture can debris as well.

5:14

so he was someone he was at. add

5:17

an extra ingredient at their disposal and I

5:19

just thought will walk up to look out

5:21

for. It is clickable because so often he

5:23

would bolland over and balloon over some reason

5:26

to be slow deliveries and then fire. It

5:28

is incredible clickable which just pull everyone by

5:30

surprise not them over and social Right when

5:32

I faced in I know that is quicker.

5:35

Bullet seen it gets so many wickets I'm

5:37

just going to make sure I. Resist that

5:39

and who knows about form and round the

5:42

bat in a championship game. As I came

5:44

in to bat for I'm sure they were

5:46

ten players tigers this market and I all

5:48

I tried to do was look out for

5:51

the quick a bones so I thrust my

5:53

baton path towards the line of a h

5:55

deliver a thinking it was the quick ball

5:57

and it was slower and slower. So. The.up

6:00

playing fall too early and

6:02

punching the ball. With. My

6:04

gloves Over the top of this the

6:06

closed fielders. The bulls are polluting up

6:08

in all directions because I was so

6:10

determined to stop the clickable when he

6:12

was born in Florence mouse very embarrassing.

6:14

ah but it showed the that the

6:16

skill of salt because I couldn't tell

6:19

that it was lower. In. Our and

6:21

then he fought in the quick of on Nichols

6:23

I got me out without in idea is a

6:25

I mean obviously I wasn't at one of his

6:27

at most and pulled wickets pop. It.

6:29

In it was indicative there is skill

6:32

of his perception and is phenomenal accuracy

6:34

and the theology subtle. Everything about him

6:36

as he was he would say or

6:38

bad lot may take afterwards if you

6:40

got you out. It was a cheerful

6:42

chat to use are almost wish to

6:45

the by and see when the ball

6:47

eight. As for the thing and unease

6:49

lotta He was genial all his life.

6:51

And so you know just to the

6:54

most wonderful personality and the most fantastic

6:56

mola authors by members of a movie

6:58

of wouldn't be mainly putting him on

7:01

television or memory Test match ninety seventy

7:03

four thing against Pakistan at long last

7:05

he did rain and pakistan have a

7:07

batting and uncovered pitch came out after

7:10

the rain with trying i tibet into

7:12

fi the twenty eight to sixty one

7:14

and a that that was want you

7:16

knew he was going to do when

7:19

you hundred in the both couple years

7:21

later cause. He was it an

7:23

impediment West Indies size, the riches making

7:25

a fantastic double hundred and at the

7:27

oval and an office in hot oil

7:30

for and three hundred and three four

7:32

hundred and sixty five and sixty point

7:34

five overs but also the great photographed

7:36

stuff in I did he was a

7:38

were iconic photographs don't nice abs.federal ways

7:40

both the of the grind against the

7:42

fast bought the shop is both and

7:44

from Michael Holding and it as a

7:46

real did some up what what it

7:48

was like to go up against us

7:51

westerners fossils especially. on the old trafford

7:53

pitch that was very spicy and the cause

7:55

no one thought with the test massive placed

7:57

an ad reds said facing a barrage on

7:59

the set of night when someone from the

8:01

crowd brought out that huge bat for John

8:03

Edrich and Brian closed all those bruises on

8:05

his body which he refused to

8:07

rub but earlier in the game Derek

8:09

underwood both feet off the ground bounced

8:11

whistling past his head. Yeah

8:14

I mean his body jack-knifed to

8:16

avoid that and of course there were no helmets

8:18

in those days I suppose really his finest hour

8:21

may have been or certainly one that you can

8:23

go back and watch on YouTube is the

8:25

famous day at the Oval in 1968 where England

8:27

were 2-1 down in the ashes of the last

8:30

day of the series and it

8:32

rained heavily at the Oval famously a

8:34

lot of people in the crowd waiting

8:36

hopefully for some play came out and

8:38

helped try up the ground with

8:41

mops and plannels and towels and stuff

8:43

and England managed to get the play

8:45

underway with about an hour left for

8:47

play and some eight wickets to get

8:49

and Underwood was absolutely an element there

8:51

as you say on a drying pitch

8:53

which had got wet first and

8:55

he just again was mesmerizing and

8:58

finally got the wicked John in

9:00

brarity to tie up the the

9:02

victory and the series almost five

9:04

minutes from the close of

9:06

play so a memorable day

9:08

for Derek Underwood a long time ago of

9:11

course now he was just

9:13

a wonderful figurehead for the game someone

9:15

who made the most of his

9:17

ability and was in internally modest

9:20

and just always cheerful

9:23

and welcoming and he'll be

9:25

much missed. How many wickets would

9:27

you have got with DRS now?

9:30

Would that have made a huge difference? I suppose some people

9:33

might say what if he's

9:35

not bowled on uncovered pitches? You know bowlers these days

9:37

have to bowl on pitches that aren't

9:39

affected by rain. Yeah

9:41

a good question and I

9:43

think he took 8% of his wickets

9:45

LBW which of course

9:47

is very low compared to the modern

9:50

spinners who taking their LBWs that's

9:52

25% of their wigs are LBW like Graham Swann or

9:54

somebody like that or even more recently

9:57

and he only took

9:59

8% of his wickets because so often umpires would

10:01

give it not out if the batsman was

10:03

forward. I think he was

10:05

unlucky actually because he was so accurate

10:08

and I'm sure many of his deliveries were

10:10

hitting the pad and going on to hit

10:12

the stumps but umpires voted in the batsman's

10:14

favour so I probably, and certainly

10:17

in test cricket, he finished on 297

10:19

I think didn't he? If

10:22

he played in this era it would

10:24

have been 500 for sure. Well

10:27

he would have been one of those players, I mean

10:29

this era he'd have been that bowler, I mean he

10:31

would carry around him the whole time wouldn't he? He'd

10:33

have been there in your squad every single match. Yeah

10:36

he would and he would have always been cheerful

10:38

in the dressing room and positive all the time.

10:40

He made the most of his ability with the

10:43

bat which was negligible but I think he got

10:45

a first-class hundred in the end so

10:47

that showed how hard he worked at his

10:50

batting and his fielding. He wasn't a natural

10:52

athlete but he made himself into a solid

10:55

and dependable fielder so he

10:57

just was the ultimate team

10:59

man and England were

11:01

the lesser when he retired. So

11:04

were Kent of course for whom he played

11:06

for 30 years, nearly 30 years, three decades

11:11

and he was the lifeblood

11:13

of that Kent team for many years.

11:16

You are right Joz, he made one first-class hundred,

11:19

he made 111 and he

11:21

made two half-centres but it is for

11:23

his wonderful left arm, I'm

11:25

just going to say medium pace

11:27

spin that people will remember

11:30

him. He was one of England's greatest cricketers.

11:33

So I wonder what he would have

11:35

made of bowling on some of these

11:37

early season pitches with the Cook of

11:39

Arraball. It hasn't been to the relish of

11:41

too many bowlers with the extraordinary scores

11:43

we've seen around the country. Just continuing

11:45

the Kent theme by the way, coming

11:48

up we have an interview with Rob

11:50

Key which I did on Saturday night

11:53

at a lovely village club in

11:55

Kent, Beirsted Cricket Club which was celebrating

11:58

its 275th. anniversary

12:00

and Rob Key was the guest of

12:02

honor and we talked about a lot

12:05

of different subjects one of which

12:07

was this. I think whatever you

12:09

do life is so much

12:11

more interesting when you change you

12:14

know like you

12:16

sort of you do something and as I

12:18

say I love that Sky job but

12:21

this is something new and you're learning a new skill

12:23

you know and you do this for a little bit

12:25

and then you do something else. I think you

12:27

know I'm very lucky in that regard I

12:29

played cricket for a long time then I was a learn

12:32

a brand new skill as a broadcaster

12:35

and then I think experience is such an

12:37

overrated thing because you know

12:39

like when you're hiring people for jobs they

12:41

always go well have they done a version

12:43

of that job and you

12:45

think so what you know like you know that

12:48

that experience can be a negative reason

12:50

for why they don't get it. If someone's done a job

12:52

for a long time and only been

12:54

average at it well why would you hire them

12:56

you know you I'd much rather

12:58

take a punt on people and that's

13:00

what I was lucky, straughty sort

13:02

of thought with me. So

13:05

more from Rob Key a little bit later but

13:09

of course we should just consider the round

13:11

of County Championship matches which have just

13:13

concluded with Simon

13:15

no positive results

13:19

a sequence of draws. The sequence

13:21

of draws to some extent that that's because

13:23

of the weather on the final day some

13:26

matches were delayed at the start of

13:28

some rain around not knocked out first

13:30

sessions but also some you know flat

13:32

pitches and the cookabra

13:34

ball the bowlers will be cursing

13:36

it they'll want to go I don't know go

13:39

find the supply and lock them up or throw them in the

13:41

river or something get rid of them because

13:43

it's been really hard work I mean some

13:45

massive scores around the country and you'll know

13:48

it of course as you've been following the

13:50

games everybody listening things

13:52

to pick out Durham scoring 517 but following

13:54

on Sussex

13:57

making nearly 700, No

14:00

and Middlesex in a game. It's a

14:02

couple of five hundred and fifty each,

14:04

a whole host of double hundred around

14:06

a George Bell run up to Ninety

14:08

night and a great escape from Justicia

14:10

against Yorkshire for down overnight at it

14:12

didn't rain in Bristol, it was a

14:14

full day's place. but last usher finishing

14:17

off four hundred and five for six

14:19

to deny Yorkshire of first the when

14:21

the seasons on it's I think that

14:23

just about sums it out of one

14:25

other thing to mention the course of

14:27

my spin isn't and Derek and was

14:29

actually the. Oval. Twelve Somerset wickets to spin

14:31

and we we all saw the the pages

14:34

of the Oval last season where sorry would

14:36

you buy some useful fi pace bowlers and

14:38

and is a they were impossible to overcome

14:40

is that they over time the opposition's much

14:43

more often than not by in that match.

14:45

okay there was a bit of right on

14:47

him in London at a small they have

14:49

that problem probably just watered them and they

14:51

went for us or-with to score two hundred

14:54

nineteen I wasn't and couldn't get that but

14:56

it twelve wicked to spin nine because to

14:58

us to come steel and. And done Lawrence

15:00

the camps which is just open the bowling

15:03

in the second innings as well. So it's

15:05

of what are we to make You bet

15:07

on the the cook or bowl I yelled.

15:09

the reason it's been brought in is because

15:12

England do not do very well in Australia

15:14

and most of the way how to blame

15:16

the Superbowl and you'd need to. Him

15:19

to make the most to learn to bowl with

15:22

it but well it's It seems this the a

15:24

lot of boulders was struggling with it. Well.

15:27

Upper cook of our ball here. Actually,

15:29

I'm actually. Newly. Named

15:31

Utility Bowl formerly the Rose Bowl,

15:33

The Ages Bowl Hampshire or Been

15:36

watching Hampshire against Lancaster today and

15:38

Nathan Lyon for tried his best

15:40

to take wickets. So did a

15:42

few seam bowlers but they couldn't

15:44

part the. The. Hampshire fit

15:46

with it pass and a of the ended

15:49

in a drawer and I just looking at

15:51

this bowl. I picked up a a ball

15:53

from the practice this morning. a cook a

15:55

bar is just rubbish it or it to.

15:58

This is about fifty overs old and. And

16:00

it's got no seam left on it at

16:02

all. The seam in fact is frayed, so

16:04

it's almost coming apart. It's totally

16:07

flat. There's no hardness to the

16:09

ball. You can't shine it, so they've tried

16:11

their best to shine it, but it's only

16:13

got sort of mottled shine, sort of rather

16:15

matte, sort of looking appearance.

16:18

And it's just absolutely terrible to bowl with. It

16:20

just feels soft and like it wouldn't give it

16:22

to your dog, practically. I mean, and it's only

16:24

about 50 overs old. It's

16:29

an apology of a ball for

16:31

me, especially in flat English conditions.

16:33

So it's good

16:35

riddance to it in my view.

16:37

And they're not using it again until the

16:39

end of the season. I spoke to Mohammed

16:41

Abbas, actually, the fine bowl for Hampshire and

16:43

Pakistan, and he just said, I

16:46

can't wait for the dupe to come back because it's

16:48

just a fruitless exercise trying

16:52

to get wickets with the kookaburra. But

16:55

when England go to Australia, they will have to

16:57

bowl with the kookaburra ball, won't they? And

17:00

so is it worth it to show

17:02

bowlers here what they will have to

17:04

come up against when they go to Australia, or

17:06

is it just sort of ruining the start of

17:09

the county championship? I don't

17:11

think it's worth it. And anyway, it's

17:13

only for two games. What's the point? You're not

17:15

going to learn much in two games, really. So

17:18

no, the only thing we've learned is that

17:20

it makes a flat pitch, even flatter. So

17:22

I think it was a mistake doing

17:25

it. By the way, I'm down here

17:27

in Hampshire, partly to cover the match,

17:29

but also to try a new camera

17:32

system, to try and upgrade

17:34

the level of the quality of the

17:36

streams that we've been enjoying over the

17:38

last few years since COVID. And

17:41

we've installed here at Hampshire six

17:43

remote operated cameras. So they're fixed

17:45

cameras that haven't got a cameraman,

17:47

and they're trained on different angles

17:49

on the pitch or on the outfield. That's

17:52

been a success, actually. The

17:54

locals have enjoyed it. We've

17:56

cut between the cameras. We brought in

17:58

one manned camera as well. so that

18:01

the man camera could follow the ball

18:03

but the other cameras were cut to

18:05

show different incidents and runouts and obviously

18:08

shots and stuff and actually it made

18:10

the coverage look very professional. It looked

18:12

like a quality sort of sky type

18:14

broadcast so very pleased with the experiment.

18:17

I mean the idea behind it is

18:19

in the end to get more viewers

18:21

and enable counties to commercialise

18:23

the streams because at the moment they

18:25

don't earn anything from those streams at

18:28

all. They go straight onto YouTube, YouTube

18:30

take mostly advertising revenue and the counties get

18:32

nothing and a lot of thousands

18:35

even millions of people are now tuning

18:37

into those streams over a season so

18:39

there is some potential money to be

18:41

made there but the coverage needs to

18:43

be better and we're trying to create

18:46

an affordable version of high class broadcasts.

18:50

So when are we going to see this in

18:52

operation? Again, is it a one off experiment or

18:54

is it going to continue with Hampshire this season?

18:57

We're hoping to continue with Hampshire for the whole

18:59

season. We're certainly booked in again for

19:02

the second match here at the

19:04

utility bowl next Friday. It's against

19:06

Warwickshire so check the Hampshire

19:09

stream next week and have a look at it.

19:11

There was an article actually about this streaming business

19:13

in the Sunday Times yesterday mentioning our

19:15

experiment and saying that in the end

19:18

we're hoping to bring in artificial intelligence

19:20

to help follow the ball which again

19:22

is a cost saving exercise. For me

19:24

it's been quite interesting because I've sort

19:26

of half worked on the commentary and

19:28

half tried to work on the

19:30

production and getting a director to cut

19:33

the pictures and moving the

19:35

cameras around. I've now got

19:37

a carload of equipment. I've

19:39

never been the roadie before

19:42

but I've actually been lucky that we've had

19:44

other people to do that but today I've

19:46

been loading all the camera boxes and cables

19:48

and tripods into my car. I just hope

19:50

I make it back to London. Well

19:53

good luck with that. Before you

19:55

go, we should hear from Rob Key, shouldn't

19:58

we? interesting

20:00

thing as the Rob Key says, well worth

20:02

staying with it. Just

20:04

explain again the background to

20:07

the interview. Yeah well it

20:09

was a chap who approached me

20:11

a few months ago and said Beasted

20:13

Cricket Club it's our 275th anniversary

20:17

and we're having a big dinner. So that

20:19

means the club was founded in

20:22

1749, amazing really isn't it, fantastic and

20:24

it's very much Kent and Sussex are very

20:26

much the birth of cricket that's where the

20:29

Shepherds first played the game with a crook

20:31

and two sticks in the ground and probably

20:33

a ball of wool as

20:35

the ball and this

20:37

ground it's a little village green in the

20:39

middle of Kent, in the heart of Kent,

20:42

a wonderful spot and they staged this dinner

20:44

and they said to me could I bring

20:46

a sort of Kentish themed special

20:48

guest. I asked Rob if he would do it, he

20:50

said he would, he was very willing and

20:53

so we sat up on stage and

20:55

chatted about life and cricket and

20:57

selection and Brendan McCullum and Harry

20:59

Brooke and many things and I

21:02

started by asking him about perhaps

21:04

the most unusual aspect of his

21:06

playing career which was

21:08

that his best friend in cricket

21:11

was none other than Freddie Flintoff, Andrew Flintoff,

21:14

a very odd

21:16

pairing but they were absolutely

21:18

inseparable and I asked him why

21:20

they got together. We

21:23

met I reckon in England, for England

21:25

under 19's when we

21:28

were both a year, he's a year older than

21:30

me so he would have been

21:32

18 I would have been 17 or something like that

21:34

and we played at Edgbaston and like most of these

21:36

things you sort of become

21:38

friends on a night out rather than anything else

21:42

and from that we you know it's like we

21:44

always, I don't know, you meet people that

21:47

you know you just click with straight away, he was

21:49

one of those for me, you know as much as

21:51

you meet people you don't like straight away you can

21:53

probably bet they don't like you as well but

21:56

yeah we ended up playing with and against

21:59

each other For a long time

22:01

we still speak most of the time now. He's

22:03

now getting involved in coaching which is brilliant because

22:05

he's an excellent He'll be an excellent coach But

22:08

I always remember and the other great friend of

22:10

ours, which was slightly bizarre But this is what

22:12

council cricket gave you back then

22:14

not so much now you used

22:17

to have overseas players And

22:19

they were some of the best in the world. So we had Raul Dravid

22:22

Carl Hooper car Hooper was so much better than

22:24

the rest of us Like

22:26

he batted in a floppy cap half the time

22:29

and he back without a thigh pad He

22:32

used to run down and hit spinners into

22:34

the like miles back Play

22:37

was a macram once got a double hundred and

22:39

just kept chipping the ball six You

22:41

know, but then Murulitharan came and played

22:43

for us the first time

22:45

he turned up On

22:48

an away trip. He'd washed his

22:50

blue kit with his white kit. So he's

22:52

bowling in silver whites He

22:56

got six for twelve or something just

22:58

he was an absolute genius And he

23:01

turned up the first net practice and he

23:03

put a ball down on one of his

23:05

lengths for an offspinner And one

23:07

length for a for a doestra and

23:10

he ran up and I reckon it was nine out of

23:12

ten He just went and he

23:14

hit a ball you go off spinner and

23:16

he hit the ball there If you imagine how hard that is

23:19

We did a master class with him which you can see

23:21

on YouTube and he still hit that ball now even though

23:23

he's been retired and

23:25

Freddie and Freddie tells a

23:27

story of they were great

23:30

mates and when they're playing England versus Sri Lanka,

23:32

I'm actually not playing in this game and Freddie

23:35

and Muralee playing for England and Sri Lanka they

23:38

had a deal and That

23:40

was Muralee said if you don't bowl bouncers

23:42

at me, I won't bowl doosters at you

23:45

Which was a much better deal for Fred because he

23:47

couldn't pick Muralee and Muralee was

23:49

back like number 11 But he generally speaks to

23:52

Sangakara Because Fred was his friend,

23:54

he'd never spin the ball both ways. He'd only ever

23:56

spin it one way and Then

23:58

one of these games has had enough

24:01

of Murley just bowling England

24:03

out being a pain. So

24:05

he says to Fred, right, nobody talked to him

24:08

and when he comes into bat just try and hit him so he

24:11

doesn't bowl at

24:13

us. So in the meantime because they

24:15

were such good friends and Fred's

24:17

not allowed to talk to Murley

24:19

during the matches but they had

24:22

the same bat sponsor so Murley

24:24

has asked to borrow Fred's bat and Fred's thinking

24:26

well hang on, don't let

24:28

NASA know that I've linked

24:30

you his bat or my bat. He's

24:32

like don't worry I won't say a thing, I won't do his accent.

24:36

So he's like whatever you do don't tell NASA

24:38

that you're borrowing my bat. So anyway Murley comes

24:40

out of bat and NASA says

24:42

to him right come and then bowl him some bouncers but

24:45

Fred's got the deal where if I bowl him

24:47

a bouncer he's going to start spinning it both

24:49

ways. So he turns

24:51

round so NASA sort of runs in first ball and

24:54

bowls him a slower ball and

24:56

Murley smacks him for four and

24:59

NASA's like abusing Fred. Come on you've got to bowl short

25:01

of him make sure you hit him. So

25:04

Fred's like okay so he runs in, bowls him

25:06

another length ball and Murley slogs it again and

25:08

it goes for four and he turns round to

25:10

Fred and NASA watches him and just holds his

25:12

bat up and says good bat Fredy. Brilliant. So

25:19

I mean yeah the bizarre friendship that you

25:21

find in cricket isn't it? That's

25:24

a great example actually. I mean

25:26

Jimmy and Broadway I've always found and Jimmy

25:28

and Swanee as well. Jimmy Anderson and Graham

25:30

Swan, what a bizarre pair they were. I

25:32

don't know if anybody here watched that, they

25:34

did a whole video sequence in the ashes

25:36

of the year that England won the ashes

25:38

in Australia in 2010 and 11. They did

25:40

a whole load of sort of silly videos and there was

25:42

one where Jimmy dressed up

25:44

as a woman sort of suddenly appears

25:46

in the hotel bedroom in Swanee's hotel

25:48

bedroom and it was a very clever

25:51

kind of use of social media actually.

25:54

So Fredy, it's great to

25:56

hear him back actually and I think you were sort

25:58

of part of the instrumental in, he

26:01

returned for the first time during the Ashes, at

26:03

the end of the Ashes didn't he last summer,

26:05

he was out there at the Oval. I

26:07

mean what's that been like that

26:09

relationship with him, must have been difficult over the

26:11

last couple of years. Yeah,

26:14

so Freddy was obviously in a bad crash

26:16

with Top Gear, probably worse than people realised

26:19

and I reckon, when was

26:21

it, just in the first lockdown I had a stroke,

26:24

a mini, a small stroke, I was very lucky and

26:27

the worst thing with all of that is, it's

26:30

not the actual thing, it's

26:32

after it when you've just got so much anxiety and you

26:34

walk around and think, geez what's going to happen here and

26:37

Fred was the same a little bit where he, all

26:39

he was doing was sitting in a room and he

26:41

was watching TV like he watched and

26:44

he's always, he'd like to watch homes under

26:46

the hammer and loose women and all that,

26:48

you know, just watching daytime TV all the

26:50

time and I said to him, well

26:52

you need to get out, come and watch the cricket, I always watch

26:54

it, I don't like sitting in the boxes, you know,

26:56

I can't do with the hobnobbing and chatting

26:59

away to people because it's like, you know, it's

27:01

my job now and it's stressful watching

27:03

it, you know, every time there's a wicket and someone goes, oh

27:05

that was crap, and you think, yeah thanks for that, you

27:08

know, and you just sort of like, I could do without anyone

27:11

talking to me like that. So

27:14

I just sit in a back office at Lord's or

27:16

we get, the CEO's give you an office to watch

27:18

from and I just said,

27:20

come and watch all the time and he sort of came,

27:22

the first time he came at Lord's when

27:24

we played Ireland and

27:26

you could tell he's got a bit of scarring and, you

27:28

know, he was anxious as you are

27:31

but then gradually he got better and better and then

27:33

he ended up coaching for us in the one day

27:36

and what I love and this is the point I was

27:38

making earlier, the best thing about it

27:40

was that sort of for all the things he's

27:42

done like top gear and a league of their

27:44

own and, you know, God,

27:46

he's hosted, he's sang in a musical, sang

27:51

in a musical with Curly from Coronation Street

27:54

and someone off the X Factor, it's like

27:56

what's your life come to, mate? The

28:00

thing was that cricket was

28:02

the thing that got him back. The

28:05

thing that really got him

28:07

back feeling better and getting

28:09

back to normal life was cricket and the people

28:12

in cricket. And that's what I'm talking about. That's

28:14

why it's such a good thing. You'll remember people

28:16

here, not maybe this night,

28:18

but you have friends here for life because of

28:20

it. And that's what, it's no

28:22

different in professional cricket. And you

28:24

have a lot of people you don't like, but

28:26

that's part of it. Step

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29:07

See terms and conditions. 18 plus. What

29:11

persuaded you to do that job? Now, of

29:13

course, he's the director of England Cricket now.

29:16

You're the big man. You're the head on show.

29:19

What persuaded you to do that? You had a cushy

29:21

job with Sky. And the great thing about commentary, which

29:23

I don't think anybody sort of... There's

29:25

lots of people who were tipped for that job,

29:28

like Michael Baughan, Michael Atherton, and NASA, and

29:30

people like that. Because none of them agreed to

29:32

do it. They all prefer

29:34

that cushy life, armchair critic, no

29:37

responsibility. You can say what the

29:39

hell you like. As long as you get your paycheck

29:41

from Sky or whoever, you're fine next year. It's

29:44

not the case for him. It's a

29:46

meritocracy, what he's doing now. And

29:48

you did give up a nice life, and

29:50

you were very good at it as well. I mean,

29:53

I think he was one of the most interesting people

29:55

on TV, actually. And there's

29:58

no ego there as well, which is quite nice. to

30:00

see actually because most people in TV have massive egos

30:02

but he didn't let the ego get in the way

30:04

of saying interesting things. So

30:06

why did you take it on? I

30:10

don't know, do you know what I don't know the answer

30:12

to that. I think that, you're

30:14

right, Sky was a brilliant job and I loved

30:16

every second of it and I was doing a

30:19

vodcast after England had lost the ashes and

30:21

we're doing what we did. You sort of trade backwards. England

30:25

do well, you say they're great. England do badly, you

30:27

say they're rubbish and you think of reasons why. And

30:31

you have a few views and you think, do you

30:33

know what they did there? It's like everyone, you sit

30:35

around, we were talking this evening, it's like so and

30:37

so is a good player and so and so can't

30:39

play. And everyone's got an opinion

30:42

but you don't really get to see if it's any

30:44

good. And I think

30:46

the thought of

30:49

being able to test that out and have some skin

30:51

in the game I said was why

30:53

I went for it. I think whatever you

30:58

do, life is so much

31:00

more interesting when you change. You

31:02

do something and as I say

31:07

I love that Sky job but

31:10

this is something new and you're learning a new

31:12

skill and you do this for a

31:14

little bit and then you do something

31:16

else. I'm very lucky in that regard. I

31:18

played cricket for a long time, then I learned

31:21

a brand new skill as a broadcaster and

31:24

then I think experience is such an

31:26

overrated thing because when

31:29

you're hiring people for jobs, they always go

31:31

have they done a version of that job

31:34

and you think so what? That

31:36

experience can be a negative reason

31:38

for why they don't get it. If someone's done a

31:40

job for a long time and only

31:43

been average at it, well why would you hire

31:45

them? I'd much rather

31:47

take a punt on people and that's

31:49

what I was lucky Strauss sort

31:51

of thought with me and it's

31:53

been great fun. I went into Lords the first day, I didn't

31:56

have a clue what was going on. Everyone here

31:58

has probably had a proper job. This is the first. proper job

32:00

I've ever had. I've

32:03

got the head of HR telling

32:05

me about all

32:08

charts. I don't know what any of

32:10

this stuff is. But

32:12

what I knew was that I had a

32:14

view on what English cricket needed to do. And

32:17

if I asked for help, I

32:19

was sure that people would give it to me. And

32:22

I always thought, as

32:25

a captain, and not everyone

32:27

does your main job is

32:29

to hire better people around you. What

32:32

really bad leaders do is they hire

32:34

rubbish people who aren't threatening beneath them.

32:38

And actually, your job becomes really hard then, because you

32:40

end up having to do their job. And

32:42

I was lucky. I had a brilliant performance director,

32:44

had brilliant talent ID

32:46

people, had brilliant science

32:49

and medicine people, brilliant physios, all

32:51

of that. And

32:53

you've just got to give them the

32:55

vision and the belief that

32:59

they can do things. So that's how I

33:01

keep plugging my way through it. Actually,

33:06

I love the way you

33:08

talk about the game. And I

33:10

just like the spirit that you have

33:13

as a squad, because

33:15

it's the ethos in a way. I

33:17

mean, we're not all that valuable. But we're going to

33:20

talk about the ethos of the England team. Obviously,

33:23

you want to win. But is it really about

33:25

entertainment, which I always felt was the most important

33:27

thing when I was a player? Yeah,

33:31

part of it. I think the main thing

33:33

in my view is the mentality

33:36

of English cricket. We needed to change it. And

33:40

this is a little bit with our culture,

33:42

I think, is that you'd have people

33:44

that do this where they just see

33:46

the downside. They see the threat in

33:48

everything. So like you

33:50

say to your friends, or I say to my

33:52

wife sometimes, just say, it's about to go out

33:54

for dinner. And the first thing she'll do

33:56

is point out three reasons why not. Like,

33:59

well, what about the team? dogs, traffic and I

34:01

know all of that. See

34:03

the opportunity in life. And

34:06

when we're in cricket in terms, what we would do is you'd get

34:08

out and you'd be like yeah don't do that. If you've

34:10

got a coach or captain who turns around to you every time you

34:12

get out and you go yeah you shouldn't have done that, you shouldn't

34:15

have played outside your eyes and nicked it, you go yeah thanks for

34:18

that. And then the next time you go out you're thinking don't

34:20

do that, don't do that. And that's what

34:22

we did, like England lost an Ashes tester

34:25

Adelaide and they put videos of them all getting

34:27

out with a plane away from their body and

34:29

saying should have left that, should have left that.

34:31

You go yeah thanks for that. And

34:33

then that was a nook on effect to the

34:36

next game. And then

34:38

the next game it's like

34:41

the mentality has to change. You

34:43

go out there and when you're batting

34:46

you look to score. Your brain's got to work as

34:49

fast as anything because the ball's coming down at

34:51

90 mile an hour

34:53

sometimes. So if you're

34:55

thinking of surviving you're like this, your

34:58

brain's not working fast enough to make

35:00

quick decisions. But if you're

35:02

thinking right here we go I'm going to look to score here

35:05

and you pick your bat up and you

35:08

look to hit the ball you've

35:10

got more chance, you've got three options.

35:13

You might score runs, you might survive

35:16

or you might get out. That's

35:18

a much better position than if you look to

35:20

survive and just look to hang in

35:22

there you've got two options, you hang in there

35:24

or you get out. It's like if you

35:26

want to bat, people say bat time equals runs. No

35:28

no. If you score runs, if you're

35:30

scoring runs you can bat for longer. And

35:33

that's the philosophy. And then

35:35

it's very simple, they talk about Brendan

35:37

McCollum and

35:40

Ben who are great leaders, they

35:42

spoke for about three minutes

35:45

each the first day and

35:47

they changed the mentality a little bit because what they

35:49

did was they wrote I want

35:51

people, Brendan's very quietly spoken and he said

35:53

I want you to look

35:56

to put bowlers under pressure when you bat, I want you to

35:58

be able to soak it up at the right time. I want

36:01

you to look to take wickets which is not always what

36:03

people do you know like Half

36:05

the time it's like are we going to stop people scoring?

36:08

We're going to bowl dry Pressure

36:10

you know feel pressure. Yeah, but you

36:12

can do that by looking every time you've always got

36:15

to see the upside You know see the opportunity look

36:17

to take a wicket every ball And

36:20

the same thing chase every ball hard in the field and

36:22

Jack leach if you remember the first test Jack

36:25

leach and that crawl he spent the

36:27

whole night watching videos on YouTube of

36:29

Brendan McCollum Chasing the ball hard

36:31

to the boundary and then leach he chased

36:34

it so hard to the boundary He tripped

36:36

up and gave himself concussion But

36:39

they did and then he said like and don't do anything that

36:42

puts you on the front page of the Herald Now

36:44

none of them really knew what that meant, but you

36:46

know like in New Zealand obviously That's the equivalent of

36:48

the Sun probably and that was it

36:50

and been spoke about I want you to feel loose Under

36:53

my captain see I want you to feel like when you're

36:55

not gripping the bat too tight feeling

36:58

when you're really confident and you you

37:00

just You know you're waving your boat

37:02

see root and stokes when they're playing really well.

37:04

There's that rhythm to their batting

37:08

But the really smart thing that they

37:10

do Is that you

37:12

can't know everyone will say like go out there and

37:14

be fearless you know play without fear That's

37:17

not the secret like everyone can say that But

37:20

then every word every time you speak

37:24

you've got to Reiterate that

37:26

and what Brendan and

37:28

Ben are very clever out so they'll save in India

37:31

Because I they'd say to the openers

37:33

have done really well. They'd be like don't

37:36

be afraid to a few sixes today What

37:38

they're not saying is like go and

37:41

hit sixes. They're just giving

37:43

them that option So they're

37:45

sort of saying it's okay to fail doing

37:47

something positive Getting out is

37:49

getting out if you get out Playing

37:52

a big shot or you or you get out

37:54

blocking one. It doesn't matter You

37:56

know and that's the key. I played a test match

37:58

once and then complexion was a

38:00

brilliant coach, very

38:02

clever and he said to me once like, Kesey

38:05

you know you're good at this shot through

38:07

the offside, don't whip across it. And

38:11

I remember getting out to a ball against the

38:13

West Indies and I whipped across it but I

38:15

thought it decked and I

38:17

went in and said oh no I've got out doing what he said

38:19

I'm going to be in even more trouble and then I thought what

38:21

are you doing you're weak you know like you're

38:23

now you know you're worrying

38:26

about the way you're getting out because of what

38:28

a coach has said so you try

38:30

and take away all of that stuff and that's

38:33

like a that's what I see as this

38:35

Baz ball which

38:38

we hate because I said to Brendan come

38:41

around Andrew Miller I think came up and we go

38:44

and watch this Baz ball they keep talking about it and

38:46

I'm about a Stokes ball or something like that and

38:49

I said you watch when we lose we'll

38:52

have to defend the thing we haven't even caught

38:55

up come up with you know and sure enough

38:57

there we are you know these Baz ball working

38:59

oh don't even do it you know what are

39:01

you talking about. That was fascinating to listen to.

39:05

Brendan McCollum said to me in 2015 out

39:08

on the field before a Test match against England, New Zealand

39:10

England he was captain of New Zealand at the time just

39:13

before England's reinvention as a one day side

39:16

and I was talking to him about you know cricket gender

39:18

and I said go on what's your ethos and

39:21

he said well he said I try and

39:23

tell my players, which is Kiwis, I try

39:25

and tell my players to imagine they're an

39:27

11 year old boy and

39:29

they're about to play cricket today it's Saturday morning

39:31

and you're going to play cricket and they've woken

39:33

up in their bed and they've opened the curtains

39:36

and it's a lovely sunny day and

39:38

I want to inject that idea

39:40

of fun and enjoyment and excitement

39:43

in my players and

39:45

thinking about you know as if they're an 11 year

39:47

old boy and I think he's tried to sort of

39:49

convey that to England but what so what actually

39:52

identified him to you why did you choose

39:55

him as the coach and why did you

39:57

choose Stokes as a captain. And

40:01

Brendan was quite simple really, so I knew that I

40:03

had a chance of this job and I was thinking

40:05

about who the coach could be. And

40:08

I knew Brendan a little bit, not that well, but

40:10

I felt that what he'd done with New Zealand is

40:12

what we needed, you know. He'd

40:14

got them playing fearless cricket.

40:18

And so many people, before

40:20

I took the job on, everyone was

40:22

talking about, whenever we fail in

40:24

England, whenever we do something that isn't good,

40:27

someone will go, right, we've got to fight now, you know, get

40:29

stuck in. You know, let's not give, you know,

40:31

and it's like this British Bulldog spirit and

40:33

all this rubbish, you know, like, it's

40:36

not sometimes you can try too hard. You

40:39

know, when you're, when you really, when you go up to

40:41

bat or you bowl, cricket's not

40:43

a game, the harder you try, the better it gets.

40:46

You know, and you need, I felt we needed someone

40:48

to take the pressure off players and

40:50

get them being more aggressive. Yeah,

40:53

because that's a better way to play, you know,

40:56

your brain works faster when you're thinking more

40:58

positively, when you're looking to be more aggressive.

41:01

So I wanted someone who could do that. And when

41:03

I interviewed Brendan, I loved him. It's

41:06

the first time I've worn a tie for like

41:08

two or three years. I

41:10

always love people like, it's

41:14

not like what you see is what you get. Like

41:16

he was wearing a cap in his, we did loads

41:18

of interviews. He's wearing a cap.

41:20

He's in India. He's, you know,

41:23

probably in like a hoodie. You

41:25

know, you're not turning up in a suit and all this

41:27

stuff. It's like, who cares what you wear, you know, what

41:29

are you saying? And

41:33

so we just saw everything that I thought

41:35

he thought as well. You know,

41:37

he had just a lot more credibility than me. So

41:40

it's very simple that. And when he speaks, you're just like,

41:42

yeah, no, you get it. It's like when you when

41:45

we watch this Bashir bowl, when we pick this

41:47

Bashir, you sort of watch three balls

41:49

and you go, well, he can pop like

41:51

it's not doesn't don't have to take

41:53

forever to make a decision, you know, just make it or

41:55

look at the data. You know, look at all the data

41:57

and all of that. You just get a feel and you

41:59

go. we'll go with that, you know what's

42:01

the worst that can happen. And

42:04

then Stokes he had one. So

42:06

Ben Stokes I knew a little bit, because

42:10

I knew a few of the players. If you remember

42:12

there was a COVID series when they didn't, when

42:15

they had to play a second team and Stokes

42:17

was captain because he'd been resting

42:20

or something from the series. So he

42:22

captained the White Ball series then, when

42:25

I Morgan was still around I think. And

42:27

England won that easily and

42:29

there was an innings where Pakistan

42:31

sort of batched to 310 but

42:35

they played quite a reserve nature,

42:37

a reserve win. England got it

42:39

easy. They chased down the

42:41

runs in with five overs to go, so I

42:43

can't remember exactly but they did it easy. And

42:47

Stokes said to all of them, he

42:49

said any of you back like they did you'll never

42:51

play on a team that I play that I'm captain

42:53

on. And I thought

42:55

that's such clarity and

42:57

that's what I felt England needed. They needed someone

43:00

who was prepared to get on the front foot,

43:02

you know go out there and you know you've got

43:05

Harry Brooke and Johnny Bear Stokes,

43:07

Zach Crawley, Ollie Pope, Ben

43:10

Ducky, you know all these guys, they're

43:12

so talented. We've got so many

43:14

talented players in England, you

43:16

just don't want them playing with handcuffs, worrying

43:19

about the danger, you know like you

43:21

know go over there this will happen. So I think we

43:25

catastrophise everything. So

43:27

every decision is either like the best thing in

43:29

the world or the worst thing. That's

43:31

never true. Generally it sort of

43:33

ends up in the middle. It's like you know should we

43:35

go out for that dinner, oh it's

43:37

going to be unbelievable or it's going to be rubbish.

43:39

No, no it'd be all right, you know, do you

43:41

know what I mean? So it's a

43:44

cultural mentality I think that

43:47

we wanted to try and just

43:49

see the upside with it. This

43:52

current job, does it keep

43:54

you awake at night and if so what keeps you

43:56

awake or are you still a very good sleeper? I

44:00

was never a great sleeper. Like

44:02

most people, no matter what I was doing, I'd

44:05

sort of be knackered watching telly, go

44:07

upstairs and then be wide awake, which was bloody

44:10

annoying. But often

44:12

I'm always thinking about it all the time,

44:15

where I'm always playing arguments

44:17

I'm going to have with people. I don't know if

44:19

you do that, where I'm sort

44:21

of thinking, well, they might say this, and then I'm going to

44:23

say that, and then I'll do this, and bang, and then I'll

44:25

win that argument. They're

44:28

the things that I think about, but I've always

44:30

done that. I've never, I've been

44:32

terrible at getting to sleep, but then awful at

44:34

waking up. But

44:39

I love it. It's great fun. It

44:42

was all going so well, and then we obviously had

44:45

this winter where we lost, we were awful in the

44:47

World Cup. And then

44:49

we, I thought actually in India, we competed,

44:51

and we had so many opportunities that we

44:53

didn't take. We were

44:55

so close, but in the end we

44:57

lost 4-1. But that

45:00

feels like, we're two years into

45:02

this now, myself, Brendan, Ben,

45:05

and it feels like a good

45:07

time now to kick off, for

45:09

everyone just to get better, whether it's the

45:11

batters, the spinners. I was so impressed

45:13

with those young spinners. And

45:16

then I think now the next move is in

45:18

bowling. We've had

45:21

a very experienced bowling attack,

45:23

inexperienced spinners, batters,

45:25

none of them were really established by

45:27

Roots and Stokes, and

45:29

now it's about the bowlers. We'll

45:32

have a bit of experience in there, but

45:34

then we need some more pace. Pace

45:37

with skill, that's the dream. And

45:40

that's where we've got to take, that's

45:42

the next way. So anyone out there, don't

45:45

be telling youngsters to just run up and

45:47

bowl straight. Get rid

45:49

of this stupid wide rule that you have with

45:52

under 12s, where you're just penalising

45:55

kids so much for wides. Just

45:58

getting a run in and let the thing go. And

46:01

that's the next thing we've got to get right I

46:03

think and that's you know That's

46:05

why it's fun. You know you can make a few moves

46:08

and see if it works Yeah

46:11

pace is exciting isn't it? I mean it

46:13

sounds like we need to offer after back

46:15

and of course he is sort of gradually

46:17

getting back to fitness exciting

46:20

prospects there actually I just finally

46:22

Harry Brooke You know I mean what

46:24

an absolute incredible talent and what a

46:26

lovely bloke as well I mean you

46:28

know to actually give up the

46:30

whole of the tour because his grandma died

46:33

and because he's so close to her and

46:35

His family was amazing and the fact that

46:37

you you saw that and and appreciated that

46:39

and sort of work were kind to him

46:41

and I'm very Tolerant but actually

46:44

I heard a great story about him recently

46:46

that a friend of mine Yorkraman

46:50

just a sort of ordinary guy his son was 13

46:52

and started

46:55

a little business Repairing

46:58

bats he quite enjoyed mending

47:00

a few bats and he

47:02

posted online on Instagram

47:04

he said you know anyone who fancies having their

47:06

bats repaired give me a Give

47:08

me a text and he got

47:10

this this tech call actually got a

47:13

call from a voice who said I'd

47:16

like some bats repaired and So

47:18

and his dad took the call and

47:21

so he said well, okay. Who is this? is

47:24

Harry Brooke and He

47:26

said no you have me on No,

47:29

it was actually Harry Brooke and

47:32

Harry Brooke the next morning 7 a.m Came

47:35

round to the house gave about six

47:37

of his gray nickels bats to this

47:39

13 year old boy to repair And

47:42

he repaired them and now he's using them for your

47:44

I mean just a beautiful story about Harry, isn't it?

47:48

He's one of he's one of the great lads.

47:50

He got his first hundred in Pakistan

47:54

And he was back in with stokes, and he's

47:56

very dry rookie. He's one of

47:58

I think we massively I sound

48:01

like I'm lecturing and I'm really sorry about like I

48:04

feel like we put so much importance on academic

48:06

intelligence like at school with kids. There's so many

48:08

different forms of intelligence. Just because you failed your

48:10

A level. Well that's true. And my G. I

48:12

didn't do A level, I was only GCSE. But

48:17

Brookie's very sharp and

48:19

when he got his first 100 he barely celebrated. You

48:21

know like people do the big fist pump and the

48:24

jump and Stokes he's

48:26

sort of running up to him to give him

48:28

a massive cuddle and he's just like one hand

48:30

up and he just says Stokes you're

48:32

not going to celebrate. He goes I don't do that shit. Pause jobs

48:34

for my language. And

48:37

then Stokes plays, it's a

48:40

flat pitch but Stokes plays

48:42

and misses a couple

48:44

of balls. And

48:47

Brookie walks down to him

48:49

at the end of the over and says what did they do? And

48:52

he just says I don't know. And Brookie

48:54

went do you not watch the ball? And

48:59

he just like he's just so dry. I mean I

49:02

was sort of singing once in the dressing room because

49:04

I don't know I'm sort of humming to myself and

49:06

he's like who's that? And I said oh

49:08

I'll deal and he went keep it that way. Yeah

49:13

brilliant. Actually

49:15

you know his most exciting moment

49:18

last year he said to me was

49:22

not hitting 80 not out to win

49:24

the Ashes test or 100 here or there or

49:26

anywhere or hitting, he hit an incredible

49:28

100 in the 100 didn't he? Like

49:30

50 balls or something. No no

49:32

his favorite moment of summer was

49:35

Bolin and Maiden Steve Smith because

49:38

they told him on the golf trip to where was

49:40

it, lock low or whatever, all the Ashes. They said

49:42

to him, Stokes said to him

49:44

if Steve Smith comes in you're on. Brookie

49:47

you're on, you're bowling. And he was didn't he? He

49:49

came on didn't he? And he Bolin and Maiden and

49:51

Brookie that was the highlight of his Ashes. Nothing. Yeah

49:55

it would be, he's a beauty. But

49:57

that might be, you talk about the golf trip and stuff like that.

50:00

But, Mccullum has one thing and I reckon it's

50:03

bloody good. I remember him saying once, you

50:06

should enjoy it and this is where you go back to what

50:08

we try and do and all of that. And

50:11

he has one thing and he says like, and I think

50:13

this is such a good way to live your life.

50:16

He said you should enjoy your career while you're doing it. You

50:18

should enjoy the job you're doing while you're doing it. You

50:21

know, not look back on it and think, oh that

50:23

was great. You know, like you're saying,

50:25

I spent a lot of my career going like,

50:27

oh I could do about today. Opening

50:29

up the curtains, hoping for rain and I could

50:32

play cards and you know, all this

50:34

stuff and I hated fielding.

50:37

But then I had a great job and

50:40

actually what we try and do is make it

50:42

because there's so much noise, so much scrutiny,

50:45

there's people writing and talking about

50:47

you all the time. You

50:49

forget actually this is fun. You

50:53

know, and then that sort of view that you

50:56

should enjoy your job or your career

50:58

whilst you're doing it, not

51:00

look back in ten years and think that was alright.

51:03

And I think that's a great way to actually try and for

51:05

anyone to try and do something. So

51:07

that's Rob Key. What are we to

51:09

pick out from that, yours do you think? The emphasis

51:12

on fast bowling. Fast bowling is

51:14

absolutely the key. I mean, county bowlers

51:16

have been trying to work with this

51:18

cook of a ball in the first

51:20

two rounds of matches, the pitch has

51:22

been reasonably flat and the ball has

51:24

been even flatter if you

51:27

like and they've struggled. Is pace

51:29

is the way, is that the key? Yeah,

51:31

I mean we talked actually about, we

51:36

made a list of the great fast bowlers of the

51:38

game when we were sat on the

51:41

table before we spoke and we were

51:43

kind of categorising great bowlers and putting

51:45

them into lists and we sort of

51:47

came up with who are the great

51:49

bowlers of the modern game, fast bowlers,

51:52

and we came up with, he

51:54

actually came up with Cummings, Bumrah and

51:57

Rabada, interestingly. obviously

52:00

Broad and Anderson are in there as well, but

52:03

the thing that characterises those three,

52:05

Bumrah, Cummins and Rabada, is pace

52:08

and also skill, but

52:11

they're all of high pace. They can generate

52:13

that sort of 88 to 90 miles an

52:15

hour. So that's what we're looking for, I

52:17

think, as an England set up, to have

52:20

that available in all

52:22

formats. And therefore, he's going

52:24

around the country looking out for people

52:27

who have genuine pace. He mentioned Josh Tong,

52:29

he mentioned Gus Atkinson, of course, he mentioned

52:31

a couple of new young bowlers

52:33

who've just come on the scene who haven't

52:35

played many games. But of course, the

52:37

thing about England now is they don't

52:39

mind about the experience and long

52:42

careers. They want to snatch people, pluck people, who

52:44

look as if they've got the potential.

52:47

And I like that attitude. I think give

52:49

youth this head and have a go, give

52:51

people a chance. Even though

52:53

they haven't done the hard yards in

52:56

county cricket, it doesn't mean you don't get

52:58

in having done the hard yards, but it's

53:01

a sort of stimulating option there. It's

53:03

something that it's encouraging people to go

53:05

for it, really. So I think I'd

53:08

pick out that and just his general

53:11

optimistic view of life, actually, take

53:13

a challenge on, give

53:16

it everything. And if it doesn't work out,

53:19

okay, you tried your best. But

53:22

grasp the opportunity and don't be scared

53:24

of doing something new. He said that

53:27

about taking on the job, really. Never

53:29

wore a suit or had a proper

53:31

real job before. But he

53:33

thought, well, I'll give it a go and see what

53:35

I've got. And I think he's done a pretty good

53:38

job, actually. I mean, he says that they could have

53:40

won in India. I might slightly

53:42

take issue with that. But they were

53:44

competitive in several of the test matches

53:47

in a tough place to win. But now,

53:49

they've got to

53:51

move on from a rather disappointing winter. And

53:53

he accepts that. Yeah, a

53:55

couple of things, isn't it, really? We look

53:57

at the inside, I suppose. A,

54:01

what's it for, is it to excite,

54:03

is it to win? And they have

54:05

excited, I think, the English public, definitely,

54:07

I think, over the two years

54:10

that we've had Benjamin Cullinan and Ben

54:12

Stokes together. I suppose ultimately,

54:15

the thing that

54:17

they look ahead to, and we always do

54:19

look ahead to is Australia. Actually, can they

54:21

go down to Australia? And well, firstly, be

54:23

competitive, isn't it? That's the thing. Be

54:26

competitive. England have not been competitive for

54:28

over a decade in Australia. They haven't

54:30

won here for 20 years, but they've

54:32

always been competitive, or largely they've been

54:34

competitive. England just haven't been competitive in

54:36

Australia, and that's perhaps the next challenge.

54:38

Also, can they get

54:41

themselves up the table in the World Test Championship?

54:43

Can they potentially fight for a place in the

54:45

final? It looks a bit of a long shot,

54:47

because they've had a difficult winter,

54:49

a difficult start in their two

54:51

series against India and Australia. That's

54:54

the thing. I mean, ultimately, you're

54:56

probably judged by results, aren't

54:59

you? But is

55:02

the fun factor also a huge part

55:04

of it as well? Well, I suppose

55:06

that's up to the English public to decide

55:08

that. Yeah, and actually, I

55:10

think that is, in a way, that's the

55:13

tone he sold throughout his chat. And

55:15

actually, the biding memory

55:17

I had of that conversation was how

55:20

important it is to remember when you're

55:22

a professional cricketer, it's fun. It's

55:24

actually a fun job. It's not a

55:26

chore to be a cricketer. It's an

55:29

absolute privilege. And remember about the

55:31

fun of it, rather than thinking, oh, God, I've

55:33

got to go out there again and play, and

55:35

I wish it was raining. Actually,

55:38

no, embrace the fact that it's a fun job. And

55:40

you'll look back on your life as

55:42

a cricketer when you're in your dotedge or our

55:44

age or whatever, and think, wow, actually, that was

55:47

really good fun. But engage with that at the

55:49

time. And that actually takes

55:51

the pressure off. And hopefully you can

55:53

enjoy yourself and be enjoyable to watch.

55:55

Here's a question for you, Jose. When

55:58

you woke up in the morning and you. put

56:00

your curtains back and it was raining, it was a

56:02

counter-championship day. Do you think good or did you think

56:04

bad? Do you think, good I've got half a day

56:06

off here, I might have a day off. Or

56:09

do you think bad, I want to play

56:11

cricket today. Come on, be honest. It all

56:14

depended who you were playing against and how

56:16

many days you'd already had. If you'd had

56:18

28 days out of 31 already, you were

56:20

praying for rain. If

56:23

you were about to bowl at Graham Hick and

56:25

Ian Bothman for Worcestershire, you were praying for rain.

56:28

But if you were about to play a very

56:30

ordinary Yorkshire team, or at a

56:32

time actually, sorry, as well, who weren't that good in

56:34

the 80s, you were actually

56:36

looking forward to it, thinking of, especially against

56:38

Yorkshire, you were thinking, I've got some wickets

56:40

here. So it

56:42

did depend a little bit who you

56:45

were playing and how many days previously

56:47

you'd played. But in the main, I

56:49

did look forward to it actually. It

56:51

was kind of, you know, what's going to happen today. I always

56:54

felt that. And that is, it's

56:57

the luxury that you have actually as a professional

56:59

cricket head. You don't know what's going to happen

57:01

today. And you've got the

57:03

chance to make something happen. And

57:06

that's actually a wonderful opportunity. Not

57:09

much fun bowling at the Chinnaswamy Stadium today.

57:11

Yours in the IPL, I think we should

57:13

just have a look at that very briefly

57:15

at the end of our podcast. The Sunrisers,

57:17

287 for 3, RCB, 262 for 7. So

57:25

Sunrisers winning by 25 runs. It

57:28

was the Sunrisers earlier in the IPL

57:30

who made the highest score ever in

57:32

a franchise T20 match. And they've gone

57:34

and broken that record. Travis Head, who's

57:36

actually looked quite threatening earlier in the tournament, has actually done

57:39

it today and come out with a 39 ball

57:41

100, one of the fastest 100s in

57:44

the IPL. Good

57:46

luck bowling with the Kukaburra ball.

57:48

Good luck bowling at the Chinnaswamy

57:50

Stadium, especially against Sunrisers

57:52

batters. I just

57:54

wonder what Reece Tockley thought of all that. Because he was

57:56

4-0, he was 1 for 68, wasn't he? Would

58:00

he rather be doing that and

58:03

probably getting paid a nice little

58:05

small fortune, or would he rather be

58:07

playing counterfeit with a Kookaburra ball? I

58:09

wonder, I think at the moment he'd

58:11

probably prefer being at the chin of

58:13

the Surami Stadium even though the ball

58:15

kept getting dispatched over the ropes. So

58:18

it's a bit of a mug's game being a

58:20

bowler, but you look back on it actually with

58:22

pride, even if you did get knocked for 17

58:24

and over. So

58:27

that's it for today. We've had

58:29

lots of interesting input here, obviously

58:31

a sad day in many ways, but

58:34

also a very interesting day listening to

58:36

Rob Key and the purposeful positive note

58:38

that he sounds. Don't forget our other

58:40

podcast as well, the sister podcast Storylines.

58:43

I actually commentated with Melissa's story the

58:45

other day. She's absolutely brilliant and full

58:47

of beans and very interesting to listen

58:50

to. So look out for

58:52

Storylines, our sister podcast, and we'll be back

58:54

at the weekend. I'm here

58:56

again for another round of

58:58

games watching Hampshire against Warwickshire. We'll

59:00

report back from that. Thanks

59:02

very much for listening. Good luck to all you bowlers out

59:04

there. Thank

59:26

you.