4:00

happened before. There's so many bee puns around.

4:02

I know, I haven't used that one. You've

4:04

given me such a gift today. Corey's

4:08

brother Paul achieved 13th place in the

4:10

1990 National Spelling Bee, then Corey competed

4:12

herself three times from 1994 to 1996.

4:14

It is pretty common for siblings to

4:19

compete in the Spelling Bee, and it's

4:21

also pretty common for bee alums to come back,

4:24

to work for the bee, or appear during bee

4:26

week, as well as Corey being the

4:28

Spelling Bee's executive director. Her

4:30

brother Paul is bee week's commentator.

4:34

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the quarterfinals of

4:36

the 2020 Forest Service National Spelling Bee. I

4:38

get to be your host, Paul Bessler, and

4:40

we're continuing to cover all the rounds

4:42

of the bee until we crown a

4:45

brand new champion. Why do

4:47

you think it is that there are so many

4:49

bee alums involved still coming back? Yeah, I mean,

4:51

we have our 1973 champion

4:53

who's on our judging panel, our

4:55

pronouncerer is our 1980

4:58

champion. And what we hear over and

5:00

over again from our alumni is

5:02

not, oh, wow, that made

5:04

me a really good speller, which it probably did. But

5:07

that's kind of beside the point once

5:09

you get into your adult life, and

5:11

spelling is kind of just this foundational

5:13

thing. But what did it do to

5:15

change the way you saw yourself

5:17

or you saw your prospects in life?

5:20

That's what I think the real power of this particular

5:23

week can be, is seeing

5:25

yourself when you're 10 years old, with

5:27

all these lights and cameras and the

5:30

eyes of the nation on you. You're

5:33

like, wow, I can do pretty big

5:35

things, even though I'm tiny right now.

5:37

And what does that mean for

5:39

your future, right? So just that broadening of

5:41

horizons is, I think, the most special thing.

5:43

And it's fun. It gets really fun. We

5:45

have a great time together. You know, it's

5:48

our bee family, right? And we're adding people

5:50

all the time to it. Hi,

5:52

I'm Nuper Lala. I am

5:54

the 1999 Scripps National Spelling

5:56

Bee Champion. Congratulations, 25 years

5:58

later. I

8:00

think for all the people here. It's

8:02

something that takes a lot of focus and

8:04

it's also a niche interest.

8:07

It felt like, you know, I would study

8:09

for school and I'd study my spelling and

8:11

I was completely absorbed and it didn't bother

8:13

me. But then I also wasn't hanging

8:16

out with friends or doing other things. Like

8:18

that was fun as much. My friends

8:20

were very supportive but a little

8:22

bemused as to what would

8:25

spur me to study spelling

8:28

instead of going to the mall or the movies. I

8:31

think people who've done it understand

8:34

what motivates you. This

8:36

was a transformative experience for me

8:38

at a very formative age and

8:41

I want to make sure that that experience

8:43

stays as good as

8:46

it was for me and also continues to

8:48

grow. Do you remember in what ways it

8:50

was transformative for you at the time? I

8:52

think it was that recognition, especially coming from

8:55

a small town, rural town, that there

8:58

were other kids that were like me

9:00

and interested in the same types of

9:02

things. I think that that was

9:05

very revelatory for me and made

9:07

me realize if I keep getting

9:09

out from where I'm from, which

9:12

is also a wonderful place, but

9:14

I'll be able to have even richer

9:16

experiences in life. And I

9:18

think words themselves did that for me too. Learning

9:22

all these words made me so curious

9:24

about different parts of the

9:26

world, different fields of study, especially different

9:28

foods that I had never had the

9:30

opportunity to try, just like reading the

9:32

dictionary. I was

9:35

expanding my horizons in all kinds of ways.

9:38

But competing at a national

9:40

level, especially in such a

9:42

high profile way, made

9:44

me believe I could pretty much do anything. What

9:48

I decided I wanted to do was help

9:50

other kids feel that way. Do you

9:52

feel like it's got

9:54

more difficult since your era? Oh,

9:56

absolutely. I think

9:59

a big part of it. is the internet is

10:01

an incredible force for good in some

10:03

ways and in one way I think

10:05

it made the study of spelling much

10:07

more egalitarian. So now you

10:10

have this field in which people can study

10:12

many more words correctly. You

10:15

don't have to rely on a human pronounce,r you can

10:17

have a program that does it for you. You can

10:20

have Zoom coaching. Just the

10:22

resources at hand and

10:24

that have resulted as a function of

10:26

the internet have made this field much

10:29

much much more prepared. I think

10:32

that's been the part that has been

10:34

most fascinating to me among Gen Z

10:36

spellers that their

10:39

idea of how to prepare for an event

10:42

where the knowledge base required

10:44

is so vast is

10:47

incomprehensible without internet. There's

10:50

no lower age limit for contestants but there is

10:52

an upper one. They can't be older than

10:54

15 or be beyond eighth grade

10:56

in school as of 31st of August the

10:58

year before B-Week. Several contestants

11:01

or their parents mentioned that they

11:03

train for 10 hours a

11:05

day to prepare for the Nationals. Was

11:07

it stressful for you and how do you feel about

11:09

the kind of stress that a lot of

11:11

the contestants feel or put themselves under

11:14

to practice? I never did that. I

11:16

never did 10 but yes I really had

11:18

a lot of fun with it. I was talking

11:20

to my brother yesterday actually he was saying that

11:22

my mom used to bribe him to study with

11:24

baseball cards. I didn't

11:26

need bribes. I really genuinely enjoyed it. I liked

11:28

finding the patterns. You know it's like a puzzle

11:30

for me. I liked grouping

11:33

words in different ways making my

11:35

own lists of different things. I

11:38

really enjoyed that. I was

11:40

the kind of kid who wanted to study

11:42

a couple hours a day. So I didn't

11:45

find it stressful. I think

11:48

that the part that was difficult

11:51

at first was in

11:54

seventh grade I placed sixth. I

11:57

tied. I didn't have this

12:00

place all to myself. But I tied for sixth and

12:02

then I was coming back for my eighth

12:04

grade year, which would be my final year.

12:07

And I was just really, really in that

12:09

space of envisioning being

12:11

the champion, right? And

12:14

for me, I was very

12:16

much about like, I get to be on TV, I

12:19

get to be on Good Morning America,

12:21

all of these things that I was

12:23

just very enamored of,

12:27

just thought that it would be so glamorous. And

12:31

as an eighth grader with a really

12:33

dorky haircut and braces, all of that

12:35

was just very enticing to me. And

12:37

I think I let myself really, really

12:40

want that. How much

12:42

training do you remember doing? I

12:44

did the script spelling me two years in

12:46

a row. The first year, I had

12:49

no experience, I made it to the national finals

12:51

and got out in the third round. Back then,

12:53

there used to be two days of spelling. So

12:55

that was called the preliminary day. And I

12:57

would say it was probably setting a good two hours

13:00

per day. Then I realized in

13:02

order to do better than that, I would have

13:04

to study significantly more. So I studied

13:06

about two to four hours a day after taking

13:08

a one month break over the summer. This is

13:10

from August of 1999. And

13:13

then once I got to nationals, I

13:15

spent anywhere from four to six hours

13:17

a day until about three weeks

13:19

before the competition. And then I ratcheted it up to about

13:21

eight hours a day. What motivated

13:23

you to be so diligent? I

13:27

think in hindsight, I really

13:29

just enjoyed spelling. It

13:31

didn't feel like work until the very end,

13:34

when I was starting to have to

13:36

memorize the canon of words where you

13:38

just brute force memorize. It didn't feel

13:40

like work. But it's so interesting,

13:43

because every time I hear that story of

13:45

this is how much I practice, it's never

13:47

like my mom and dad told me I

13:49

had to. It's always, this was a deep

13:52

driver for me. And I

13:54

wanted to see what I can do. And

13:56

that's how it was for me in eighth grade two, where I was sitting

13:58

there and like, I just

14:00

want to show what I've learned. Here is

14:03

one of 2024's finalists, Ananya, who started competing

14:05

in Spelling Bees when she was 8 years

14:07

old. You got to go

14:09

to finals if you passed in your chapter.

14:12

And all my friends were like,

14:14

oh my god, you get to speak into

14:16

a microphone if you go to the finals.

14:19

And I'm like, okay, this is not about

14:21

the cash prize. 8-year-old me

14:23

wanted to speak into a microphone. That's

14:25

what's crazy. It's gone from going here

14:27

to wanting to speak into

14:29

a microphone. Like,

14:32

this journey has been crazy for me. We're

14:35

talking right after the semi-finals. Ananya is

14:37

still on the stage along with her

14:39

fellow finalists, Adidi. You'll hear from her

14:41

in a sec, too. The entire time,

14:43

I was just scared and I really didn't know

14:45

why. My legs were shaking, but nothing was going

14:47

to my head. And then when I

14:50

got that word, I was going to overcomplicate it. But

14:53

I just took a deep breath and I

14:55

thought of the rules and I applied it. And yeah. What

14:59

was the word? It was rusa. It's

15:01

a Hindi word. And yeah,

15:03

I was going to put R-O-U-S-A. I'm

15:05

like, okay, let's not complicate this. And

15:07

then when Dutch Brooks said, that is

15:09

correct, it was crazy. I didn't know

15:11

what to say. This is actually my

15:13

first time in finals and I've never

15:15

made it to semis. Yeah, me too.

15:18

Same here because I competed last year. And the

15:20

furthest I got was quarterfinals. So

15:22

this has just been such

15:25

a big jump for me and I'm really happy for

15:27

all the hard work I've put in so far. I

15:29

feel like getting to that goal that you've... Because

15:31

I've been super excited for the National

15:33

Spelling Bee since I was really young.

15:36

I only started competing in any

15:38

kind of spelling bee since this

15:40

grade. But just knowing that I've

15:42

been able to attain a level

15:44

that I only dreamed about, that's

15:46

incredible. My

15:49

name is Wai Wai and I'm from Hartstale, New York.

15:52

And you're finalists. Um, yeah.

15:56

Congratulations. Thank you. How are

15:58

you feeling? This has been a really long day. Rishab's

18:00

round 6 word was Aromasp.

18:03

A-R-I-M-A-S-P, defined in

18:05

the Merriam-Webster dictionary

18:07

as one of a

18:10

mythical race of one-eyed men of Scythia,

18:12

represented in ancient art as in constant

18:14

strife with griffins for gold guarded by

18:16

the griffins. I would

18:18

not have figured that out, despite

18:20

my constant strife with griffins. A

18:23

contestant probably can't get through the bee on

18:25

rote learning of spellings alone. They

18:28

tend also to have knowledge of etymology and will use

18:30

it to work out the spelling of a word they

18:32

don't know. So when they

18:34

get it wrong, it's usually not because they

18:36

made a silly mistake. They're

18:38

all making very sensible mistakes. Absolutely, and

18:40

so many this year that miss just

18:42

by one letter and that's where you're

18:45

like, ah, chilling. That's what it is,

18:47

right? Like, I worked so hard, I

18:49

want to be able to show everybody

18:52

everything that I've learned and it's just this

18:54

one darn word that gets in your way

18:56

of doing that. The way that

18:58

the spelling bee works, there's so

19:00

much just luck involved and that

19:03

is so frustrating. But, you

19:05

know, it's also kind of what

19:07

makes the spelling bee so like

19:09

nail-bitingly compelling. I had

19:11

the chance this year to sit in with

19:14

my brother at the host desk for part

19:16

of the preliminaries. I'm usually,

19:18

you know, up in the front of

19:20

the competition, behind the scenes kind of

19:22

thing where it's just like so intense

19:24

and focused on that. But this

19:26

year for the first time, I had the chance to sit

19:28

and watch some of the competition with him. So you're like

19:31

sitting at the host desk watching a monitor and

19:34

between spellings, like saying a little something

19:36

about it. And I was

19:39

like, wow, I love watching this. I've

19:41

kind of like forgotten how much fun

19:43

it is just to watch it and

19:45

see how much personality

19:47

comes through from the kids in

19:49

this simple formulaic transaction that happens

19:52

between the officials and the speller.

19:54

There's so much more going on

19:56

than just that and that drama

19:58

of the vicissist. still

22:01

ever so slightly triggering. Over

22:03

time, it has lost

22:06

its resonance, no pun intended, a little bit.

22:08

But yeah, it's still hard to hear. When

22:11

I was out in public and someone played the sound, I was like,

22:14

I actually jumped. I was like, whoa, what did I

22:16

get wrong? Wow, so you

22:18

need like a desensitization exercise for bells.

22:21

I hate that sound, but I would want to be in

22:23

charge of ringing it. I don't know why, I just, I

22:25

feel like it would be a really fun job. I

22:28

would love to bring a bell and just like

22:30

any time I let someone annoy me, I'm like

22:32

ding, goodbye. I asked

22:35

2024 finalists, Adidya and Ananya, about how

22:37

they had felt in previous years when

22:39

they got knocked out of the competition.

22:42

Honestly, to say

22:44

the least, like I'm not even gonna sugarcoat

22:46

it terrible. Yeah, because the sound of the

22:48

bell is such a hard thing to hear.

22:52

Just like the disappointment of hearing the bell is

22:54

a lot. So yeah, I was pretty disappointed last

22:56

year. Yeah, I was, okay, like,

22:58

I feel like I studied more.

23:03

I made sure that I would not hear

23:05

that bell again. Whenever I

23:07

heard that bell, I would just go

23:09

straight to crying, but now whenever I

23:11

hear a bell, it's just more mellowed.

23:13

I just don't, I don't start

23:16

bursting out into tears because I know that

23:18

there's always like another chance that's coming out

23:20

for you. So a bell, it's,

23:22

that's why it's a bell and not a buzzer.

23:25

It's not loud, it's just a small thing to

23:27

remind you that it's not the end of the

23:29

world. I ended up

23:31

really flaming out my eighth grade a year.

23:34

I got out in the second round

23:36

on the word dispel, which

23:38

probably, probably you wrote in an email

23:40

a couple of days ago, right? Like, this is just a

23:42

common word. I spelled it like spell, and

23:44

I was like, I'm right. I'm just gonna go back and sit

23:47

down. And you know, I heard the bell and I was, I

23:49

was so sad, but

23:53

that experience I have drawn

23:55

on forever of

23:59

bouncing back from that. disappointment and coming back

24:01

and watching the rest of the competition

24:03

and cheering on all the friends

24:05

that I had made, which is the reason that I loved

24:07

this in the first place, that social aspect, you

24:10

know, celebrating with all of them at the end of the

24:12

week. We have a big party here on Friday night and

24:16

leaving still feeling like all

24:20

of that journey to that

24:22

place had done so much for

24:24

me. And, you know, we

24:26

talked about resilience a lot now. I don't think

24:28

we talked about it back then, really, in the

24:30

mid-90s. No, no, no, no, no. It was just

24:32

to get through by suppressing your feelings. Right, exactly.

24:34

What could go wrong? But,

24:38

yeah, I feel like

24:40

I learned that's part of that transformation, too, is

24:42

that growth. Each of

24:44

the spellers eliminated in the semi-finals

24:46

and finals received a beautiful speech

24:48

from Head Judge Mary Brooks or

24:51

Back-Up Head Judge Kavya Shivashankar, commending

24:53

the qualities they exhibited during their B-journey

24:56

and noting their other interests and giving

24:58

them encouragement for what they may do

25:00

in the future, spelling or not, which

25:03

seemed to me a very thoughtful way

25:05

to celebrate each contestant upon their exit.

25:08

That was actually an outgrowth of

25:11

the COVID era. So in

25:13

2021, we had to do

25:16

a hybrid virtual and

25:18

then in-person model for our national finals.

25:20

So the first three segments of our

25:22

competition were all virtual. During the beginning

25:25

of the competition in the

25:27

preliminaries, we were noticing, wow, this just, it

25:30

feels so cold when it's just like,

25:32

you're wrong. And then it's like, bloop,

25:34

like the little video goes off of

25:36

that kid, right? And there's no clapping

25:38

for them the way every kid who

25:40

misspells on our stage, they get clapped

25:43

off. Like, we're celebrating the fact that

25:45

they made it there, the whole audience

25:47

is. But in

25:49

a virtual environment, that wasn't there. So

25:52

we thought, okay, whoever's the head judge at

25:54

that moment, which I believe it was

25:56

Mary for almost all of the virtual

25:58

competition, we need you to. say

26:00

something. And then it just kind of

26:02

grew from there and she started really

26:05

getting to know the kids and

26:07

putting that personal touch on everything that she

26:09

says to them. And Mary and Kavya, they

26:12

pay attention to the kids over the years.

26:14

We get a lot of information about them

26:16

from them, but they try to make sure

26:18

they know about each one of these kids

26:20

and then you can tell it's a special

26:23

moment for them. The reality of this competition

26:25

is that one kid is gonna win. Half

26:27

the kids in the competition are out on

26:29

the first day. There's two more days of

26:31

competition. You're really at the beginning of the week.

26:34

You've got this whole week to experience and

26:36

that collective experience for those

26:39

this year 244 kids who aren't gonna win of being able to

26:43

process that at the same time,

26:45

realize it's okay, realize they're always

26:47

gonna be more opportunities. I

26:50

think that's really a special thing that we're able

26:52

to provide. Is there like a duty

26:54

of care to the kids? Because like I think we're

26:56

more wet now of psychology. Yeah, absolutely.

26:58

We talk a lot in

27:00

the lead-up to the B

27:02

about kind of envisioning both

27:04

outcomes for yourself, talking about

27:06

what it's gonna be like

27:08

when the bell rings, what

27:11

you feel, how you talk through

27:13

it with your parents, how you experience it with

27:15

the people around you and what that can end

27:17

up meaning for you. We try

27:19

to have our alums every year to

27:21

contribute to that series

27:24

of communications to the kids who competed

27:26

the previous year coming back and sharing

27:28

their experiences to help them in the lead-up.

27:31

I actually have had multiple

27:33

conversations with multiple different outlets

27:35

about kind of mental fitness

27:37

training and also just

27:40

the social emotional learning

27:42

aspect of all of this. We don't have

27:44

a formal program for it yet but it's

27:46

on my to-do list. Especially as

27:48

I get older and you know I come

27:51

back to this event that it's so much

27:53

meaning for my family. We were all a

27:55

lot younger. I think seeing how all of

27:57

this takes a village right that every kid

28:00

here. There was somebody supporting along the way.

28:02

That feels more meaningful now than it ever

28:04

did. Or not, I mean, it's always

28:06

been meaningful, but I think that that has been more

28:09

apparent to me. The

28:12

contestants' support for each other was

28:14

also on display. Whenever one

28:16

completed their turn, if they succeeded,

28:18

they returned to their seat on stage and if

28:20

they're eliminated, they walk off stage. The

28:23

other spellers would high-five them as they

28:25

passed. For me, actually, it's kind of

28:27

my substitute for a good luck charm. I

28:29

feel like displaying that kind of sportsmanship will

28:32

in turn help me out and make my mindset

28:34

a little better if nothing else. So I

28:36

just feel like that helps me in the beat. I

28:39

think the empathy that's involved in

28:41

the spelling bee, like putting yourself in

28:44

other people's shoes, because my heart

28:46

hurts from people that end up having to

28:48

hear the bell. I'm always really happy and

28:50

excited for people that are still moving through.

28:52

And I mean, I think the

28:54

thing is, your enemy is a dictionary. Like, we

28:57

all hate the dictionary. Not each other.

28:59

So that's like really important. And the dictionary doesn't even

29:01

know you hate it, so you're not hurting the dictionary

29:03

either. You're hurting

29:05

an inanimate object, which means that

29:07

doesn't really convey any emotions. I

29:10

really love seeing the kids being so supportive

29:12

of each other on the stage. Did you

29:14

have that vibe in your cohort? Oh,

29:17

no, no, no. But I

29:20

think that's something that has really changed and I

29:22

do wonder whether yeah,

29:25

society has on the whole like focused a

29:27

lot more on empathy and support. And I

29:29

think that is a wonderful thing. And we

29:31

see it on stage. And I

29:33

love that cultural shift. I admit it

29:36

was a little bit more competitive,

29:39

or there was a sense of this

29:42

being maybe more important than

29:45

what it was to win that we

29:47

were maybe not yet mature enough to see the

29:49

lessons that are now much more readily apparent as

29:51

adults. So we were not as sweet

29:54

to each other, but seeing the kids hug each

29:56

other as they ran off stage. That

29:58

was really touching. We all became

30:00

very good friends by the end of the

30:02

week, but yeah, I think there was a

30:05

greater competitive edge with

30:08

us older millennials spelling as teenagers. It

30:11

was also just, I think, a different

30:13

time of making kids prove

30:15

their value in opposition to each other rather

30:18

than in parallel, or in my

30:20

upbringing it was. No, that's exactly right. That's

30:22

beautifully put. Thank you very

30:24

much. I appreciate that from a

30:27

words champion. My

30:29

childhood was very much arranged around

30:31

competing against my peers. From

30:33

age seven, twice a year, my school

30:36

would do something called orders, which

30:38

ranked every child in

30:40

each of our subjects as well as overall in

30:43

our year. So our value

30:45

was very much defined as relative to that

30:47

of our competitors, and the results

30:49

determined for the next six months how worthy I

30:51

was of my parents' love. Before

30:54

coming to the Spelling Bee, I was worried

30:56

about kids being in such an intense competition

30:58

– it is televised, there are big prizes

31:01

at stake, they have to invest so much

31:03

time and effort – but

31:05

it makes all the difference that they're

31:07

not competing with each other. The success

31:09

or failure of a speller is not

31:11

contingent on that of another. I

31:14

think what I've really tried to do in my time

31:16

with the Bee, and especially in the

31:20

last two years, is

31:22

examine the week from the lens

31:25

of, obviously we have this

31:27

competition to do, obviously we

31:29

have this multi-million dollar broadcast to

31:32

make as well, which is a

31:35

lot and we have to focus on

31:37

that, but how do we also make

31:39

sure we're really focusing on the experience

31:41

of every single speller and making sure

31:43

that they're having a fun and

31:46

transformative week too. So

31:48

it's not just about what you see out

31:51

there in the world, it's about what happens here. I

31:55

like to emphasize with my staff, which we have about 100

31:58

people who work this event week

32:01

is the most memorable thing

32:03

for these kids is going to be

32:05

the connections that you make with them,

32:07

that you talk to them like real

32:09

people, get to know them, find

32:12

out what's so unique about them,

32:14

and that makes the experience better

32:16

for the kid and better for

32:18

you. And all of those personal

32:20

touches, that's what I'm really passionate

32:22

about continuing to change. As

32:24

a child, to be treated with

32:26

respect and afforded gravitas, yeah

32:28

I would have memorized a dictionary to get that. We'll

32:32

just take a quick break to hear from our sponsors.

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35:09

Now back to the spelling bee. When

35:12

someone wins the spelling bee they

35:14

can't compete again so they really do go out

35:16

of their spelling careers on a high. You know

35:19

it's funny the day after I won

35:21

one would think that that would be

35:23

the single happiest day of my

35:26

life and it was until

35:28

that point but there was also this sinking

35:31

feeling where I was wondering what

35:33

would I do with my time

35:36

and that dissipated quite quickly because

35:38

high school was on the horizon

35:40

but yeah it's something

35:42

where maybe that was the first

35:44

time I experienced what would be called now is existential

35:46

dread. Like how long did it take to

35:49

feel reconciled to that? Maybe

35:51

this reflects a lack of depth but I think

35:53

in about a week or so I had moved

35:56

on to envisioning high

35:58

school. I also think At

36:01

the time, we were actually preparing

36:03

to move across states. And

36:06

so I think that there were other challenges

36:08

that were imminent that distracted me. I'm

36:11

Dev Shaw. I'm the 2023 Scripps

36:13

National Spelling Bee Champion. To

36:15

be honest, I have been sad

36:17

for a year

36:21

because really, I

36:23

used to spend, some days I would

36:25

spend 10 hours. It

36:28

was a lot of work and I enjoyed

36:30

it. But at the same time, it felt, at

36:32

times, really stressful. And

36:35

I took a lot of it for granted and I have

36:37

all this time and I feel like, in

36:40

a sense, worthless. I know that's

36:42

kind of weird that I'm a spelling

36:44

bee champion, but you realize that spelling

36:46

is not going to last forever. And

36:48

this one thing that you took for granted from second to

36:50

eighth grade is more than a

36:52

chapter, not your life. So it's hard to

36:55

differentiate between what you do and who

36:57

you are. That is a lot to take

36:59

on at your age, particularly. I

37:02

mean, most spellers are mature, right? I'm

37:05

not sure if most spellers are mature or if

37:07

being in spelling bees helps you mature. But

37:10

by the time that people come

37:12

out of spelling in eighth grade,

37:14

they're definitely changed people. Like

37:17

the eighth graders I know this year who are

37:19

recently retired spellers or about to retire

37:22

tomorrow have changed so much since I've

37:24

known them. I think spelling

37:26

is kind of a transformative experience in that

37:28

way. I'm talking with

37:30

Deb and Charlotte Walsh together the night

37:32

before this year's finals. They're

37:34

very close friends since placing first and second in the

37:36

2023 spelling bee. So

37:40

do you like go through what I'm going

37:42

through though? I don't know what you mean. Just

37:45

you have all this spelling time and then now

37:47

it's gone. Yeah, I

37:49

dealt with that a lot over the summer,

37:51

but I've been filling my time up pretty

37:53

well. I had a lot of responsibilities to

37:55

take on my eighth grade year. In

37:57

addition to spelling, my eighth grade year. middle

38:00

school, my parents decided that

38:02

I should do three AP exams and

38:04

test for my black belt and also

38:06

get confirmed in the Catholic Church. And

38:09

so at first I was like,

38:13

I was nervous about what to do with my spelling time and

38:15

I felt that there was a lot of time

38:17

left but I was able to fill it up pretty quickly with

38:19

a lot of other stuff to do which I guess is a

38:22

blessing and a curse. But what you

38:24

seem to be saying Deb is like, who am I

38:26

now that I'm no longer an active speller? Like I

38:28

might be a champion but I'm not doing the

38:31

thing anymore. Exactly,

38:33

I just um, I

38:36

see a lot of people in

38:39

high school and you know spellers

38:41

are a special group of

38:43

people. From second to eighth grade at

38:46

least that's how it goes for a lot of spellers.

38:48

They had purpose and not a lot of kids have

38:50

that. It took all the time for

38:52

granted all the preparation, all these B's. I

38:55

never knew it was gonna end. This

38:57

is my study schedule like I'm doing these words then, I'm

38:59

doing these then and once I get through that I have

39:01

to do this and then all of

39:03

a sudden like just randomly on a Thursday night

39:05

you don't have to do it anymore ever. But

39:08

then again don't you feel like a, do you feel sad?

39:10

I feel like you're a bit excited about it.

39:14

I am sad about

39:16

it because spelling was a really important part of

39:18

who I am but I am

39:20

thankful for the extra time in a way

39:23

because I think that spelling

39:26

doesn't necessarily have to end when you finish scripts.

39:28

There's a lot of ways to still be involved

39:30

with the community which is why it's not super

39:33

heartbreaking for me is because I know I

39:35

can come back and I have connections that

39:37

will last me a while. That's true, it's

39:39

not the same though like we were

39:41

talking about this when we saw the

39:44

spellers, the semi-finals were like that was

39:46

us last year, when we saw the stage. But

39:48

I have to be honest I'm kind of glad that I

39:51

don't really have to go through any of

39:53

the failures again. Right you don't have to prove yourself.

39:55

I mean I never really saw it as proving myself in

39:57

the last year we were just having fun as well

39:59

with I was a little bit nervous. I

40:02

was nervous too. I was nervous too, for sure. I

40:06

think a lot of people don't realize

40:08

how scary it is. And sitting in the audience today, I

40:11

kind of realized that because it looked a

40:13

lot less scary from the audience than it does when you're

40:15

actually there. But when you're on

40:17

stage, the lights are so bright and

40:19

there's a whole pit full of cameras pointed up

40:21

at you and you can hear them clicking every

40:23

time you say a letter. And the

40:26

audience actually knows when you get the wrong word,

40:28

like when you say the wrong letter, they know before

40:30

you do. And so it's

40:33

so much more stressful to actually be

40:35

there than it looks. So

40:37

it's a lot of pressure. You know, I remember

40:39

even if I spoke correctly, I would go back to

40:42

my chair and my legs would just shake

40:45

uncontrollably. And it's so

40:47

bright. It's so bright on stage. They need

40:49

it for good lighting and it looks beautiful

40:51

on camera, but it is so bright and

40:53

it's so overwhelming. I kind of like it

40:56

because it only puts Dr. Bailey into perspective

40:58

when we think about it. Dr.

41:00

Jacques Bailey is the head pronounce who delivers

41:02

the words to the spellers. He sits

41:04

with the judges and other B officials in

41:07

an enclosure in front of the audience facing

41:09

the contestants on stage. It's

41:11

only the pronounce. But that's scary. That's true. That's

41:13

why it's scary. Would you rather want a thousand

41:15

people looking at you or just one person? There

41:18

are a thousand people looking at me. I just

41:20

can't see them back. What

41:22

motivated the two of you to work

41:24

so hard to achieve this objective? What

41:26

were the things driving you to do that? Two

41:29

things in general, the community.

41:32

Everyone here is just so supportive. And

41:34

the second thing, passion. A

41:37

lot of people don't realize spelling words is

41:39

much more than spelling. Right, Charlotte? Right.

41:43

Spelling words is so much fun

41:46

when you realize that you have a great

41:48

community behind you and you have a love

41:50

for learning and making connections. It's

41:53

a really unique experience and I'm really,

41:56

really grateful for it. Spelling is about

41:58

roots, language. I genuinely loved

42:00

getting a word I didn't know and having

42:03

all this information, it was like a detective

42:05

case. Like you have the

42:07

language of origin, the definition, alternate

42:09

pronunciations, roots, and you have all

42:11

these, it's like witnesses and having details to

42:13

crime scene forensics. And, you

42:16

know, it was just me piecing out together,

42:18

doing what I love in front of millions

42:20

of people, shining on a stage, cameras, and

42:23

still getting a lot from it. And you got

42:25

to do all that detective work in like 90 seconds. Exactly.

42:27

In 2022, the year before I won,

42:29

I got out on my regional beat.

42:32

I couldn't even qualify. So

42:34

I was like, oh my gosh, what am I going to do?

42:36

But my mom was very supportive

42:38

and she was like, try, because

42:41

you'll regret it forever if

42:44

you don't do it. I'd rather

42:46

be uncomfortable for a year, knowing

42:48

that I might lose, than just going for

42:50

the rest of my life being like, wait, I could have won. That's

42:54

true. Because even if you don't do as

42:56

well as you like, in

42:58

scripts, you at least know that you got there

43:01

and you did it. And that's

43:03

why like, I wanted to give up

43:05

in my eighth grade year too, just because of so much that

43:07

I had on my plate. But I

43:09

realized that I would definitely regret it because I

43:11

would never know how I would have done. Each

43:15

of the finalists received some prize money from

43:17

the script spelling bee. The amount rising, the

43:19

higher they are placed. The runner up gets

43:21

$25,000. The

43:23

champion gets $50,000. Plus

43:26

other money and prizes from some of

43:28

the bee's partner organizations. Was

43:31

the prize money important? It

43:33

really wasn't important at all. I didn't even think about it.

43:36

I'm going to be, I mean, I didn't think I was

43:38

going to make it as far as I did, but

43:41

I didn't, when I considered the possibility

43:43

of winning or being runner up, I didn't think about

43:45

the prize money. I just thought about like how cool

43:48

it would be. I was really focused.

43:50

My main thing was taking it one round at

43:52

a time because preliminaries, quarterfinals, semifinals, finals. There's

43:54

a regional bee you have to get through

43:56

so much. So you should just take it

43:58

one step at a time. Like in round two,

44:00

I was like, oh, what am I gonna do with $50,000? I

44:03

was like, am I gonna make it through this round? When

44:05

I was on the stage, 25 grand was

44:08

the last thing from my mind. I was like, I don't

44:10

think I'm gonna get this right. And I remember

44:12

because after I won, you came on stage and

44:15

you were like, what are you gonna do with 50,000? I was

44:17

like, what are you gonna do with 25,000? And you

44:19

were like, oh my gosh. Yeah. And I

44:21

was like, I got 25 grand? We

44:24

were like shocked about it. We were shocked. It

44:27

was a fever dream. It was a really good

44:29

fever dream. Does it still feel like that? Yeah,

44:32

this one feels like a lucid dream. This one's

44:34

weird. We're supposed to be on stage, first of

44:37

all. When you think about it, could you really

44:39

do the spelling bee again right now? Honestly,

44:42

probably not. Like I know we're

44:45

reminiscing about it and like I

44:47

would love to relive the finals of last year

44:49

or like, you know, all last year. I'd love

44:51

to relive it, but I don't know

44:54

if I could even do it again right now. There's

44:56

a reason why it doesn't carry into high school. As

44:58

much as people would like it to.

45:00

There's a reason why it doesn't. There's a lot to

45:02

do in high school. But like, I'm

45:04

talking about the studying, the

45:07

online bees dealing with

45:09

so many people in the spelling community.

45:12

Like, could we do that again with another thing

45:14

right now? I don't know. I

45:16

guess it depends on the thing. I mean, we

45:18

were passionate about spelling. I'm sure we could be

45:20

passionate about something else. It really just depends. I

45:22

think that we definitely could find a purpose. There's

45:25

a lot of things to get excited about. I

45:27

think that I could definitely like be passionate and

45:29

carry that same sense of passion and purpose into

45:31

something else. It's what I dreamed of.

45:33

I always dreamed of getting rid of spelling, but then I

45:35

don't want to now. I think the

45:37

biggest thing is that after being the top at

45:39

something, now we're at ground zero and we're like,

45:42

we have to start over. Have you

45:44

warned any of them the day

45:46

after the final, you might be feeling this

45:48

void? I don't

45:50

know if you could even warn someone about that

45:52

because you warned them. I was

45:54

warned about it. No one told me. I

45:56

faced all of us. Oh, you're gonna graduate.

46:00

I did not believe them. I was

46:03

like, no way. But like, I'm gonna, it

46:05

hit me so hard because I was like

46:07

in all this media. So I was

46:09

like caught up in the moment and

46:11

then suddenly after two months it dies

46:13

down, right? You're like, wait, what? You

46:16

know? Like I was in this whirlwind

46:18

for two months and then now I'm settled. But

46:21

I'm not really settled. What I expected if when

46:24

I won all my problems would go

46:26

away and it would be like

46:28

a whole new world, which it was, but for two months

46:30

and like I guess for a year. But now

46:32

it's like settling back down. It's

46:35

so weird cuz it's like being

46:37

Miss America. This is what

46:39

you dream about that you like finally made

46:41

it the top. But at

46:43

the same time, it's like you're kind of saying goodbye

46:45

to a chapter of your life. But then

46:49

you get another one. That's

46:52

true. And you know, the hardest part though

46:54

is because for so long I have this purpose,

46:57

sense of purpose, purpose and a sense

47:00

of purpose. And without those

47:02

two you're like, is this meaningless? But

47:04

you also might need longer than a

47:06

year to find that. Are there things

47:08

that you enjoy doing even

47:11

if you're not very good at them? Are you able to allow

47:13

yourself to do things that you're mediocre at? I

47:16

need to get better at that. Like I started

47:18

taking voice lessons this year because I've been really

47:20

interested in singing my whole life, but I'm not

47:22

very good at it. I like always

47:24

come home from voice lessons. I was like, I

47:26

am so bad at this. There's

47:28

no reason to do it. But there is a

47:30

reason to do it because it's fun and I

47:32

actually like enjoy it even though I'm a terrible

47:34

singer and you're never gonna catch me singing anything.

47:38

But doing that kind of taught me that

47:40

like it's okay to do something that you're not like

47:42

great at. Like I still improve from

47:44

the start of the year. At

47:46

this point, I'm just like exploring. I'm

47:48

doing whatever. I hope I find a

47:50

purpose. I'm trying to find

47:52

writing. I'd love to learn more languages.

47:55

I'm learning Spanish basically. It's going well. It's

47:58

going well. So I hope I learn. in

48:00

languages, I hope I can get better at

48:02

the cello. I am part of the orchestra,

48:04

so I'm finding my

48:06

way slowly." The 2024 champion

48:09

of the script-spelling bee is 12-year-old

48:11

Bruhat Sommer, whose spelling career had

48:13

just become complete. So I asked

48:15

him what he thought he might do with the time he

48:17

had been spending on spelling training. Pretty much

48:20

enjoying, I guess. Like, I don't really

48:22

have anything planned for the summer, but

48:24

yeah, pretty just relaxing. Maybe watching a

48:26

bit of basketball and stuff, because, like,

48:29

I'm into that stuff. Other

48:31

people that have been bee finalists

48:33

in the past, do they have any

48:36

advice for you navigating this transitional

48:38

time? I talk to so

48:40

many bee finalists. Have you? So

48:43

many. They're really, like, inspirational.

48:47

Ha ha, be for real. Okay.

48:50

There are so many. I talk to so

48:52

many, like, so many champions, and they

48:55

felt the same thing. They felt this void. And

48:57

there's one year or two years where they're

49:00

like, what even is this? And,

49:03

you know, I'm getting used to high

49:05

school. I'm not even getting used to

49:07

it. I'm still like, what is this

49:09

world where there's no purpose or meaning?

49:11

And I hope I find it, but it's

49:13

important to realize that even

49:15

if I do find another purpose, that doesn't mean I'm going

49:17

to know who I am. But I think, like,

49:19

to anyone else going through the same thing, it's

49:22

important not to get caught up on not knowing

49:24

who you are, because no one really knows who

49:26

they are. And we are like

49:28

15. So I think there's a lot of

49:30

time to figure it out. And

49:33

even though there is like a huge, like, there's

49:35

like an empty place where spelling used to be.

49:37

And it's okay if nothing ever fills that. But

49:39

it's like, eventually,

49:43

it's less apparent that there's an empty place there,

49:45

even if there always will be.

49:48

I got runner up and now I'm challenging myself to do

49:50

something even cooler because I didn't want I don't want to

49:52

peak in eighth grade. I want I want

49:54

to keep getting like awesome. And I want to have

49:56

a lot of things look back on not just this.

49:58

That's so true. And you shouldn't be afraid

50:01

of failure. Like, I feel like I was afraid of

50:03

failure. Failure is going to happen, but you shouldn't be

50:05

afraid of it, you know? I wanted

50:07

Nupaulala's take on this with her win now

50:09

25 years behind her. You

50:12

get really good at a thing that doesn't necessarily

50:14

directly become something you do in your adult life,

50:16

but does have resonance and impact

50:19

on your adult life. How do you

50:21

feel that your excellence at spelling has

50:23

informed your adulthood or been useful at

50:25

all? I think of late, it sort

50:28

of helped me realize something that I was

50:30

chasing throughout my adult life that I feel

50:32

like very recently I have found. What

50:35

the spelling bee also gave me, aside from

50:38

getting to study language at that depth, which

50:40

I loved, was this opportunity

50:42

to solve puzzles that require both

50:45

a high level of

50:48

base knowledge, but also pattern

50:50

recognition, and sometimes just intuition

50:52

when you're spelling at a

50:54

mic. Because if there's

50:56

one competition that I've seen that really tests the

50:58

limits of human memory, it is the spelling bee.

51:01

I definitely took the skills that I learned

51:03

from spelling into my academic career. Spelling taught

51:05

me how to like study really hard for

51:07

a long period of time, and the skills

51:10

that I took from spelling, like learning how

51:12

to prepare for a

51:14

spelling bee, really helps you finish a lot of homework.

51:17

And so I very recently found

51:20

that in my subspecialty, so I'm

51:22

a neuro-oncologist in my adult life,

51:24

and I'll soon be practicing independently

51:26

as one. I've just finished fellowship.

51:28

And that, thank you, and that's where

51:32

I felt a little bit like that feeling I've

51:34

been chasing, and I've been looking for in

51:37

various career exploits throughout my

51:39

adult life, because I took a little while to

51:41

decide on what I wanted to do. I'd finally

51:44

found as a neuro-oncologist,

51:47

I think that's where the spelling bee had a very

51:49

deep influence. I wanted to feel the way that I

51:53

did while studying words, but get to do that every

51:55

day and get paid for it. Getting

51:57

paid for it sounds great, but also lots of long,

51:59

difficult work. for you to have to

52:01

use. All the time and I will

52:04

say that there was definitely a full

52:06

circle moment yesterday hearing where it's like

52:08

all to plays or mucromycosis,

52:10

things that I had to study in

52:12

order to be a practicing doctor being

52:15

asked of a spelling bee. Yesterday, Rude came

52:17

up and I studied medieval English poetry so

52:19

I was like, that's the one I can

52:21

do! The kid got it wrong.

52:24

And I got it wrong too. That

52:26

was a hard word. Now my degree was otherwise pretty

52:28

useless but at least I would have

52:30

got through that round if that, no I would have got knocked out way

52:32

earlier anyway. They asked Didi and Ananya

52:34

what they would take from competing in the

52:36

spelling bee. I had like a

52:39

better work ethic, better time management, like I

52:41

think I'm better at public speaking just by

52:43

the amount of interviews. I think

52:45

that also like just not

52:48

being too afraid to accept failure. Like that's

52:50

such an important thing in the spelling bee

52:52

because it's like only one person is going

52:54

to take home this trophy and that

52:57

might not be you. I

52:59

feel like I'm definitely going to improve

53:02

my character. In spelling

53:04

bees I've always been cheering for other people

53:07

and never cheering for myself and I feel

53:09

like maybe I can stop cheering on the

53:11

sidelines and actually start cheering for myself. It's

53:13

like getting increased self confidence. You feel so

53:16

much better about yourself. The

53:18

one piece of advice that I would give is just

53:20

focus on the next word. If

53:22

you can learn to focus on the task ahead of

53:24

you no matter what you do. Tonight,

53:27

tomorrow, the rest of your life, things

53:29

have a way of working out as they should. That's

53:31

comforting. And also if

53:34

you feel the void after it's okay to feel that.

53:36

I think so. In fact,

53:39

I would say that that to me is

53:41

a reflection of effort and dedication and if

53:43

you can employ those sorts

53:46

of qualities in whatever you do, you

53:48

will be fine. Life will be fulfilling.

53:50

It may not be what you predicted

53:53

but it will certainly be rich and

53:55

meaningful. illusionist

54:00

and for making language learning fun

54:02

and productive in just a short

54:04

daily exercise or longer if you

54:06

want, you get to choose, and I often think, oh,

54:08

just do one. Then an

54:10

hour has suddenly passed and I

54:13

realise I'm covered in gerunds. I've

54:16

been browsing my babel history, actually, and it reminded me that

54:18

in 2019 I used it to

54:20

learn some elementary Swedish because I was

54:23

visiting Stockholm for my friend Will's surprise

54:25

birthday party. That was a nice

54:27

memory that babel jogged. But at the

54:29

moment I'm mostly using babel to jog my

54:31

memory of languages I have studied in the

54:34

past but haven't used in a while. I

54:37

don't want them to evaporate. But sometimes

54:39

I also love doing their language courses in

54:41

a language I don't plan to use and I don't

54:43

have a particular objective, I just want

54:46

to study it to start to understand how

54:48

a different language works. And

54:50

exercise my brain. Here's a

54:52

special limited time deal for our

54:54

listeners. Right now, get up to

54:56

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babbel.com/Illusionist. Rules

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and restrictions may apply, but get up

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to 60% off at

55:14

babel.com/Illusionist. Thanks

55:16

to Squarespace for sponsoring The Illusionist and for

55:19

being your one-stop shop for building and running

55:21

your own website from soup to nuts. That

55:24

expression was the subject of a question we received

55:26

once on my other podcast, answering this, why is

55:28

it soup to nuts? And yeah, I can't think

55:30

of any meal I've ever had that began with

55:32

soup and ended with nuts. I suppose it could be

55:34

a one-dish meal of soup with nuts in it. But

55:37

I think the expression implies a multi-course

55:39

meal with many a gustatory feature betwixt

55:41

the soup and the nuts. If

55:44

we apply the expression to Squarespace,

55:46

the soup would be picking your

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template from their range of award-winning

55:50

designs. Then what might you have after

55:52

the soup fancy salad? That could be

55:54

adding your various pages and features to the website.

55:57

Main course. Filling your website with

55:59

content. dessert, choosing

56:01

a custom domain. Mmm. And

56:04

the nuts, hiding a little easter egg in

56:06

there somewhere. Head to squarespace.com/illusionist

56:08

for a free trial, and when you're

56:11

ready to launch, save 10% off your

56:13

first purchase of a website or domain

56:15

using the code ALUGIONIST. Something

56:27

that was fun for me specifically about watching

56:29

the Spelling Bee is that I knew a

56:31

few of the words because they had come

56:33

up as our randomly selected words from the

56:35

dictionary. So pay attention and

56:37

file these away for future spelling

56:39

sports. Your randomly selected word

56:41

from the dictionary today is... Anserine

56:49

in Spelling Bee Palants. Can I get all the

56:51

information, please? Anserine, adjective,

56:54

of or like a goose.

56:57

A-N-S-E-R-I-N-E.

57:01

Anserine. Try

57:04

using it in an email today. In

57:10

order of appearance, you heard

57:12

from Corey Loeffler, Nupa Lala,

57:15

Ananya Prasanna, Aditi Muthakumar, Y.Y.

57:17

Liang, Rishabh Saha, Charlotte

57:20

Walsh, Dev Shah, and

57:22

Bruhat Soma. Thanks

57:24

also to Becca McCarter, Ben Zimmer,

57:26

and Jane Solomon. There should

57:28

be more Spelling Bee next episode. This

57:31

episode was produced by me, Helen

57:33

Zoltzman. The music is by Martin

57:35

Orstwick of palebirdmusic.com. Our

57:37

ad partner is Multitude. If you want

57:39

to advertise on this show and hear

57:41

me come up with an original ad

57:43

for your product every time, that people

57:46

often don't skip. They listen to by

57:48

choice, yeah, the power.

57:50

Contact Multitude at multitudetopproductions.com.

57:54

And you can hear or read every episode,

57:56

get links to more information about the topics,

57:58

and see you next time. the full dictionary

58:00

entries for the randomly selected words and links

58:03

to upcoming events, and become a member of

58:05

the Illusionverse to read my b-caps and get

58:07

other perks, all at

58:09

the show's forever home, theillusionist.org.