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a preview of our guest Alarmist

2:07

series only on Patreon. I

2:30

was born with a special gift. The

2:32

ability to mentally transform

2:34

any situation into the worst

2:56

case scenario in

2:58

my own brainwave.

3:02

My therapist is only just in

3:04

pastorizing. And that's why

3:07

I usually call it hard to

3:09

scrutinize and analyze history's greatest

3:11

disasters and find out who

3:15

to plainly

3:18

say his truth. Not

3:20

on my watch. My name is

3:22

Rebecca Delgado Smith and I

3:24

am the Alarmist.

3:33

Hey everyone, thanks for tuning in to

3:35

the Alarmist, a comedy podcast where we

3:37

talk about history's greatest tragedies and figure

3:39

out who's to blame. Today

3:41

we're discussing the Ramree

3:43

Island Crocodile Massacre. Here's

3:45

what you need to know. Ramree

3:48

Island is located off the coast of Burma,

3:50

what is now Myanmar. It is

3:52

the largest island off Myanmar and during

3:54

the Second World War it was a

3:56

strategic outpost held by Japan. recognized

4:00

its significance and set out to

4:02

wrest control from the Japanese forces.

4:05

What ensued became a grisly tale

4:08

of man versus man versus

4:10

nature. In the

4:12

later stages of World War II, the

4:14

British Empire, as part of the Allied

4:16

forces, began the Burma Campaign. It

4:19

was an effort to reclaim the

4:21

colony it once controlled. Japanese forces

4:23

had taken over Burma and Ramri

4:25

Island in 1942,

4:27

and the Allies had already

4:29

made several attempts to take it

4:31

back, but failed. This time

4:33

would be different. In

4:36

1944, the Japanese forces in

4:38

Burma were weakened after a

4:40

failed attempt to invade India. The

4:43

Allies took advantage and launched an

4:45

offensive into Burma that would completely

4:47

overwhelm the Japanese. On

4:49

Ramri, Japanese troops faced an

4:51

assault from both land and sea. The

4:54

Allied troops surrendered them and barricaded

4:56

the exit. They forced

4:58

the Japanese soldiers to retreat out of

5:00

the city center and into the mangroves

5:02

that surround the islands. Ramri

5:05

mangroves are littered with all kinds

5:07

of insects and wildlife, including

5:10

massive saltwater crocodiles.

5:13

The ancient creatures are enormous

5:15

and have been known to attack humans, albeit

5:17

not frequently. On February 24, 1945,

5:21

Reuters' war correspondence reported

5:23

that many Japanese soldiers

5:25

were, quote, being forced

5:27

by hunger out of the mangrove swamps,

5:30

and many have been killed by crocodiles.

5:34

War veteran Bruce Wright later

5:36

wrote about the battle, and

5:38

his description featured vivid details

5:40

of a brutal crocodile attack.

5:42

He wrote, quote, the

5:44

scattered rifle shots in the pitch-black

5:47

swamp, punctured by the screams

5:49

of wounded men crushed in the

5:51

jaws of huge reptiles, and

5:53

the blurred, roaring sound of

5:56

spinning crocodiles made a cacophony of hell

5:58

that has rarely been told. duplicated

6:00

on Earth. Other writers

6:02

took Wright's lead, and the legend

6:05

lived on for years, including in

6:07

the Guinness Book of World Records,

6:09

where it is listed as the

6:11

worst animal attack ever recorded.

6:14

A modern zoological analysis disputes the

6:16

claim that hundreds of Japanese soldiers

6:18

were attacked by saltwater crocodiles. But

6:21

let's face it, they're still very scary. Fun

6:25

facts, AKA death stats. Many

6:28

reports show that given the chance at life, crocodiles

6:30

can live to be 100 years old. Only

6:35

1% of newborn saltwater crocodiles live

6:37

each year. In

6:39

1968, the Guinness Book of

6:42

World Records credited the Ramri Island

6:44

incident with the most numbers of

6:46

fatalities in a crocodile accident and

6:49

the worst crocodile disaster in the

6:51

world, a dubious distinction

6:53

for a horrible event no matter

6:56

the real numbers. Though

6:58

accounts vary, some say that as many as 500

7:01

retreating Japanese soldiers perished

7:04

in grisly fashion during the

7:06

Ramri Island crocodile massacre. Of

7:09

the 1,000 troops who entered the swamp on

7:11

Ramri Island, only a reported 480

7:13

survived. The

7:16

Battle of Ramri Island is not well known due

7:18

to it not being one of the Second World Most

7:21

Significant Events, but many consider

7:24

it one of the oddest stories in the

7:26

history of warfare. There

7:28

are an average of roughly 1,000 saltwater

7:30

crocodile attacks reported per year.

7:34

Indonesia sees almost 10 times

7:36

more saltwater crocodile attacks than

7:38

any other country. With

7:43

us today, we have producer Clayton Early. Hello.

7:46

Fact checker Chris Smith. Hi.

7:48

And our very special guest

7:50

today is our friend, writer,

7:52

Arthur Meyer. Hi, Arthur. Hi,

7:55

my friends. It's so nice to be here. our

8:00

listeners and I want you to tell

8:02

our listeners about your new web series

8:05

ABC parenting that has come

8:07

out recently. Oh I'm so

8:09

excited I get to do this right at the top

8:12

of this thing. Oh yeah. Okay.

8:14

We hit our listeners with

8:16

what you do ASAP. That's

8:19

awesome. Well this is called, yes, it's a, I

8:21

guess, I guess you would call the web series,

8:23

it's called ABC parenting and I

8:25

guess the quickest way to describe it is

8:27

that it's bad parenting advice. So it's a

8:29

comedy web series and it

8:31

stars me and a wonderful

8:34

actress named Stephanie Drake who I

8:37

think people might know if they're fans

8:39

of the show Mad Men. She played

8:41

one of Don Draper's secretaries in the

8:43

last few seasons and she

8:46

was she's so funny. She is so

8:48

funny yeah. So the series ABC parenting

8:50

it's on Instagram,

8:53

TikTok and YouTube and

8:55

we've done 20 episodes and we have

8:57

like 30 more. So there's a lot

8:59

to watch if you want

9:02

to watch it. Well

9:05

we like to start off the show by asking

9:08

our guests what is something

9:10

that's recently alarming you? What's something that's

9:13

keeping you up at night? Oh

9:15

okay that's a good question and you guys do

9:18

edit these right? Because if I know think for

9:20

a moment. We put in like funny noises and

9:22

stuff like so

9:26

this is gonna take you out

9:28

to be a long episode. But

9:31

we won't take any of the

9:33

things you say out. Here's

9:37

what's alarming me and I don't know if this

9:39

is just a New York specific problem but the

9:41

sheer number of people who when

9:43

they're walking down the street and

9:46

are texting without

9:48

looking up. I

9:52

discovered recently talking to my sister I was like

9:54

do you I was texting her I said do

9:56

you ever get road rage and she's like not

9:58

really because I don't drive a car. car

10:01

but she's like she lives in New York to

10:05

call it and the best we came up with was walk

10:08

wage but I don't have any

10:10

better name for it but I

10:12

have I suffer from walk rate walk

10:14

wage mmm well why

10:17

not just walk rage yeah

10:20

walk rage is a better name walk wage

10:22

implies that you're

10:28

monetizing your walking somehow yeah

10:32

walk wages immediately

10:34

misleading and

10:38

it's not like rage is like a

10:40

common thing that you have you know

10:42

it's two words that aren't on it's

10:44

already a an interesting combination

10:47

pedestrian rage

10:50

sidewalk rage let me get one

10:53

out here just wants to think of one

10:55

I know what you mean though Arthur it's a

10:57

very relatable thing what about pedestrian

11:00

perturbance I came

11:02

up with the solution that

11:10

I do when someone is walking towards me and

11:12

they're on their phone they're now looking up and

11:14

my wife cat does not like the solution but

11:16

I go I go like this I go really

11:19

loudly like that you what I can

11:22

hear it zoom okay I might

11:27

have to get far away I go like this okay like

11:30

what is that weird noise okay

11:34

so it's me going like

11:37

be with but like like an

11:39

alarm kind of it's an alarm

11:45

like that okay that's good yeah but

11:47

I do it really loudly at the

11:49

person and the idea is that it

11:52

startles them right and it and they

11:54

hopefully they remember it like it I

11:56

feel like if you just say to

11:58

someone hey or excuse me they're not

12:00

going to remember it and they'll maybe

12:02

even be a little annoyed that you did

12:04

that. But if you go be a whip

12:06

really loudly, they'll go home and like tell

12:08

someone about it that day and then they

12:10

won't. And I've learned their lesson. Here's

12:14

my question though. Do they

12:16

know that you are be a

12:18

whipping? Do they

12:21

know that you're be a whipping because they're

12:23

on the phone? Is there like

12:25

a follow up? Okay. Because

12:27

that causes them to look up and then I

12:30

think it takes a second but then they get

12:32

it. There was actually one time I did it

12:34

to someone and he immediately went, whoop,

12:36

like he answered my... He

12:38

responded. Yeah,

12:43

I don't know Arthur. I don't know if you're actually

12:45

getting your point across. I think this

12:47

is great. I mean, it's, it's, because

12:49

Arthur's not, we're not going to sit

12:51

down and have a conversation or conflict

12:54

here. This gets the job done in

12:56

getting their attention. Yeah.

12:58

That's the important part. Okay. Exactly.

13:01

Right. And then if they are smart

13:03

enough and intuitive enough, they'll understand that

13:05

it is like almost like a kind

13:07

way of asking them. Calling them

13:10

out? Yeah, basically, which

13:12

is non-conconcipational. I agree. And

13:15

if it works, it's a great

13:17

idea. It's a great idea. It doesn't seem like

13:20

it's your job to fix the problem for them.

13:22

Exactly. But the attention is because that's for

13:24

your safety, right? So they don't slam into you. Exactly.

13:26

And to me, it's like, I think my

13:28

wife Kat thinks it's mean, but I think

13:30

it's no meaner than look,

13:33

than not paying attention when

13:36

you're walking. Right? Right. Yeah.

13:38

I guess, yeah, you're right. It is very

13:41

rude to not look where

13:43

you're going. Well, it's actually in New

13:45

York. I mean, in LA,

13:47

nobody is on the sidewalk, so

13:49

you can do it pretty much wherever you

13:51

want. But in New York,

13:54

the sidewalk is almost, yeah. It's the

13:56

road. You have to share the road.

14:01

I guess yeah, yeah You

14:09

know Arthur came up with a solution

14:11

that lacked bite but you know, it doesn't

14:31

That's a good one. We talk about crocodiles

14:37

Well, I mean let's jump in

14:39

this is a listener recommendation That

14:42

we had it's bad blame the

14:44

listener. Yes, do we gather name? Do

14:46

we have their name or no? I'm

14:49

not sure Clayton. I can find out who

14:51

they are and put them right up on the board I You

14:56

know and a shout out to

14:59

our associate producer crystal who Was

15:02

helping with research and you know, she's

15:04

like just so you know, this doesn't

15:06

seem to be real To

15:09

be like conspiracy theory, so maybe that's the first

15:11

thing that we've I

15:15

like that Clayton There

15:18

was debate about if this is I mean

15:20

it seems like people are pretty sure that

15:22

it happened For whatever version I'm sure

15:24

a version of this happened. Yeah,

15:26

right there was There

15:29

were deaths there were

15:32

now whether it was by

15:34

crocodile or by human

15:38

war Right, that's that's

15:41

what's really or or drowning or just

15:43

the element. Yeah or the elements. Yeah

15:46

So there's a lot to put up on the board here.

15:48

Okay jump in these mangroves and

15:51

you know And and

15:53

and see if we survive I Want

15:58

to let you finish that one I

16:00

wasn't gonna save you. We're

16:03

a little punchy today, I think. I'll be honest,

16:05

I just woke up from a nap. You

16:09

kind of seem like you just woke up from a

16:11

nap. I just woke up from a nap and I

16:14

haven't really shaken off the nap. I'll be totally honest

16:16

with you. How long was it? Was

16:18

it a long nap? It

16:20

was a short nap. It was about a half hour. Okay,

16:23

I mean that's substantial. Yeah. Yeah.

16:26

Yeah, I guess it's a short nap

16:28

for somebody who doesn't have a kid. It

16:33

was a long night of sleep for someone who died.

16:35

Arthur is like, I die for something. Oh

16:37

my god, yeah. No, I slept so terribly last

16:40

night. Well,

16:45

our fact checking is gonna be gold

16:49

this episode. We're gonna start off by

16:51

putting what we already put up. Wait

16:53

a second. Do we need to

16:56

give a little back to overstem my balance? Do we

16:58

need to give a little context as to what this

17:00

incident is? Yeah. Well,

17:03

we have the what you need to know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The

17:07

audience has already heard what happened. You

17:09

just haven't heard that section because it's

17:11

not edited together yet. That's right. Yeah,

17:14

that's right. So, Arthur is understanding how

17:16

editing works. We've never given

17:18

our audience any context until Arthur brought that

17:20

up. Thank you, Arthur. Oh,

17:26

god. We're just gonna start blaming people. I was

17:28

like, that's what we're blaming people for. Oh,

17:33

we all need a nap. I mean,

17:35

I have a big one that I would

17:38

like to add to the board right away

17:40

if it's okay. Sure. I would love you

17:42

for you to do that. Here's what I

17:44

think should be blamed, or at least what

17:46

we should consider crocodiles. Oh. That's

17:48

a good one, and that was gonna be my first one, too.

17:51

Yeah. The

17:53

animal that is the crocodile.

17:56

The crocodile. Well, here's a

17:58

little background on crocodiles. Oh

18:00

God. And this is from oceana.org.

18:04

Reaching lengths of more than 23 feet, 6.5 meters,

18:06

and weights over 2,200 pounds, 1,000 kilos,

18:15

the saltwater crocodile is the largest

18:17

reptile on the planet and is

18:19

a formidable predator throughout its range.

18:22

Saltwater crocodiles of this size are capable

18:24

of eating just about any animal that

18:27

strays too close and are particularly adept

18:29

at drowning terrestrial creatures like

18:32

birds and mammals. Named

18:34

for its ability to survive

18:36

in full salinity saltwater, saltwater

18:38

crocodiles typically live in brackish,

18:40

low salinity water near the

18:42

coast. Though

18:45

crocodiles and their relatives have a

18:47

negative reputation among people, most species

18:49

are relatively harmless and would rather

18:52

avoid people rather than confront them.

18:54

The saltwater crocodile however is known

18:56

to show aggression towards people, partly

18:58

a result of its strong territoriality,

19:01

and is responsible for at least

19:03

several dozen attacks on people each

19:06

year. The extremely powerful jaws

19:08

of the saltwater crocodile are responsible

19:10

for creating the strongest bite in

19:12

the animal world. Wow. The

19:15

strong teeth can be up to five inches

19:17

long. Wow. Have

19:20

you ever thought Chris had big teeth? Mmm.

19:23

Geez. It was

19:25

a little mean but okay. Anyway,

19:27

back to five. I

19:33

guess it's sort of the dynamic that you have. I

19:38

didn't know that was our dynamic. She's allowed

19:40

to say that. So

19:44

they've got five inches, they're five inches

19:46

long. Those two characteristics and the animal's

19:48

ability to hold its breath for long

19:50

periods of time make it the perfect

19:53

predator for hunting large land mammals. Saltwater

19:55

crocodiles lurk along the water's edge and

19:57

attack in a violent lunge. at

20:00

any potential prey that approaches the

20:02

water. The crocodiles are an old

20:04

lineage and have been thriving

20:06

in this environment since before

20:09

the dinosaurs went extinct. I

20:13

don't know what is more

20:15

scary to be killed by

20:17

like a shark because

20:19

you're so vulnerable in the water or a crocodile

20:21

that will literally lunge out of the water and

20:23

drag you into it. I

20:27

think the crocodile is because

20:29

it's more impressive. It's a more impressive thing

20:31

to lunge. It would surprise you a little

20:33

bit. To see it coming like I think

20:36

it's a psychological like you're on land so you think

20:38

you're kind of safe but quickly you're just pulled into

20:40

like your death. Whereas in the water you're kind of

20:42

like I'm kind of putting myself in

20:45

danger here. It's my fault. It's not my element

20:47

to be in water. I can drive very easily.

20:50

Yeah. I don't know. Do

20:52

you guys think that if you were being eaten

20:55

by a crocodile like if a crocodile attacked

20:58

you you would have a quick moment

21:00

where you're like oh my god like is this

21:02

how I die and maybe you would even be

21:05

a little bit excited like just like oh my

21:07

god am I about to die right now from

21:09

getting eaten by a crocodile? You're

21:12

like thinking about. I don't know if I'd be excited.

21:14

I don't know. Are you asking if we'd be

21:16

excited if we realized

21:18

that we might be getting killed?

21:22

Yes. I guess the excitement is partially because

21:24

it would be like if it were not

21:26

a war related thing

21:28

I think it would be kind of a

21:30

cool death and it would be a funny

21:33

funeral because if you're having a funeral and

21:35

a crocodile ate you like either no

21:37

one's going to talk about it but

21:39

we're all like thinking about it like

21:41

we're happy someone got eaten by a

21:44

crocodile or someone's like you

21:46

know like John was a really cool

21:48

guy and it's really tragic that he

21:51

was eating by a crocodile. I

21:54

think that to answer your question

21:56

honestly I think that

21:58

your brain moves so fast. that I

22:00

actually do think one thought that might

22:03

go through your brain is somebody else's

22:05

perspective on how you died, right? Like

22:08

you'd be getting attacked and I just think

22:10

you'd be like, oh shit, like I

22:13

just can see that thought coming into your mind like this

22:15

is how I die. People

22:18

are going to think about this. Not

22:20

like this. This will be embarrassing.

22:22

This is a little embarrassing. Oh

22:25

yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I do think

22:28

about how so many people die

22:30

naked, right? Do they?

22:32

For some reason. Do they? Why? Yes.

22:36

What are you talking about? Yeah, well, at first when you

22:38

said that, that sounded like something that was true, but now

22:40

that I think about it, I can't think of anybody

22:43

who dies. Yeah, why? No.

22:46

So, well, something I, you

22:48

know, Chris is a cousin who used to be

22:50

a paramedic and one of the

22:52

things he used to say was you'd be

22:54

surprised how many times we show up to

22:57

help someone and they're dead

22:59

naked. Oh, interesting. I

23:01

don't know if it's like. Emergency calls in their

23:04

home. Yeah, obvious. Yes. I

23:07

don't think like on this, I don't, yeah, it's

23:09

not on the street. I was wondering if you

23:11

meant because people often die in their sleep and

23:13

mate and you know, some people like to sleep

23:15

naked. I don't know if that was right. Or

23:18

like slipping into the shower or something like that. How

23:22

many people sleep naked? I

23:24

think a lot of people. A

23:26

lot of people? I think probably.

23:28

Chris is looking. There's just no way we

23:31

were going to get a serious number about

23:33

this. Okay, well, maybe I made that up,

23:35

but I do

23:37

think, I don't know, based on

23:39

my conversation with your cousin. I got

23:41

you. If that just kind of stuck out in

23:44

your mind, it's like maybe consider how you're dressed

23:47

when you're alone at home because you

23:49

might like Arthur suggesting you have to

23:51

be aware of how you're being perceived.

23:53

When you die. I think

23:55

it never stops. Being

24:00

aware of how trying to control how people

24:03

perceive you and the need to feel like

24:05

you're in control of like how you're being

24:07

Perceived it never stops even even

24:09

as you're dying. That's kind of sad worrying

24:11

about other people's perception of you Yeah, I

24:13

think that like if I were to be

24:16

found myself Arthur to answer your question being

24:18

killed by a crocodile I think my last

24:20

thought would be like I can't believe I let

24:24

My put myself in a position this

24:26

position Yeah, like I'm

24:28

so wary of that Like I I'm not

24:31

walking close to any waters edge

24:33

in places where I know crocodiles to be So

24:35

if I'm gonna eat my crocodile, I'm like I

24:37

can't believe I Let

24:39

this happen And then did I

24:41

do this? Why did I think it would be

24:44

a good idea to see this salt water crocodile?

24:46

Right was he was hubris which brought me here.

24:48

Right? Well, let's

24:50

talk about what brought the soul. Yeah Yeah

24:55

And why don't we put World War

24:57

two up on the board and let's

24:59

get you know, like Arthur

25:02

wanted to do let's give a little even

25:04

more context As

25:06

to what's going on, you know, this is

25:08

this is towards the end of the war

25:12

And but but we're in Burma

25:15

It's me and Mar now but Burma at the

25:17

time Um, here's a

25:19

little background Burma isolated from the rest

25:22

of the world with mountainous ranges on

25:24

her western northern and eastern borders Was

25:26

a British colony with a degree of

25:28

autonomy. It was the crown jewel

25:30

of Britain's Asiatic

25:33

empire United States also aimed

25:35

to help Burma as a direct result of

25:37

Japan's Japanese pressure,

25:40

but the reason was much different than that

25:42

of the British the United States looked to

25:44

maintain Burmese outside Japanese control

25:46

so that supply lines into China

25:49

would remain open The supplies

25:51

traveled into China via the Burma road

25:53

a treacherous gravel road that connected Kunming

25:56

China and Lashio Burma that

25:59

open in 1938. Britain

26:01

and United States worries

26:03

about Burma were not unfounded as

26:06

Japan did look to incorporate Burma

26:08

into her borders. Beyond

26:10

the wish to cut off China's

26:12

supply lines, a Japanese-occupied Burma would

26:15

also provide Japan added security from

26:17

any potential flanking strikes from

26:19

the west against the southward expansion that

26:21

was about to take place. On

26:24

December 11, 1941,

26:26

only days after Japan's declaration

26:28

of war against Britain,

26:30

Japanese aircraft struck airfields

26:33

at Tuvoy, south

26:35

of Rangoon. On the next

26:37

day, small units of Japanese troops

26:39

infiltrated into Burmese borders and engaged

26:41

in skirmishes against British and Burmese

26:43

troops. On the

26:46

same day, a flying Tiger

26:48

squadron transferred from China to

26:50

Rangoon to reinforce against the

26:53

upcoming invasion. They've controlled Burma.

26:55

The Japanese have

27:02

taken control of Burma, and now the

27:04

British and the Allies

27:07

want to take it back, essentially, if that's

27:09

what's happening. Sounds like a strategic area

27:13

for the war. So,

27:17

let's put the British

27:19

soldiers up on the board. And

27:23

by the way, when you mentioned World War II before,

27:27

part of me almost wanted to zoom

27:29

out and say the senselessness of war.

27:32

What do you think? I like it. Okay,

27:35

isn't that too conceptual or anything? Because I really kind

27:37

of think that's a strong possibility.

27:41

I love, we love a broad stroke.

27:44

We love a metaphor. I think there's

27:46

definitely room for it here. Because sometimes

27:48

these things are, it requires

27:51

that. Yeah. Not

27:54

fans of war on the podcast, so

27:56

we're into it. How much do

27:58

you guys know about war? in general.

28:02

Or I guess specifically World War II because I

28:04

don't know much about it. Now my dad knows

28:06

a lot and I texted him if he had

28:08

ever heard of this incident and he had not.

28:11

He's read pretty much every World War

28:13

II book on the topic. Yeah.

28:17

Okay.

28:20

I don't know much about... I'm not like

28:23

a warhead. I feel like a

28:25

warhead would not use the term warhead. But you

28:27

know it's hard for me to imagine like

28:39

battles. You know when people

28:41

describe battles that's really

28:43

hard for me to like read

28:45

and process. That's a good point. That's

28:48

always really hard for me to do

28:50

too. Flanking

28:52

means go on somebody's side I

28:54

guess. So you're... but is

28:57

that right? You're saying

28:59

one term that you heard

29:01

about what could potentially happen in

29:03

a battle. Like a flank. Okay.

29:06

No because you mentioned flank earlier.

29:08

The Japanese liked

29:11

Burma because they could protect

29:13

their flank which I think

29:15

means your side. You

29:18

can protect your flank. What's

29:21

a flank steak? It's the side. Okay.

29:23

So then that makes sense. That's where

29:25

we go is to flank steak. But

29:29

I'm also not very good at war terms but

29:31

let's see. Are you into war? It's

29:34

the side. Okay. Okay. Yeah.

29:37

Are you into war? Yeah. Yeah.

29:40

You're asking for that. Arthur. Oh

29:42

to me am I into war? No

29:44

very much that. I mean I'm like it's

29:47

a very interesting and

29:49

fascinating topic for so many reasons.

29:51

I guess I you know I do find

29:54

myself drawn to certain wars.

29:56

Are you guys like I'm always a

29:58

little more interested in like Vietnam. I

30:00

don't know if that's just because it's kind of more

30:03

recent or because there's it has so much

30:05

to do with like You

30:07

know cold at least the

30:09

way that we look at it culture in America

30:11

And then I feel like the further back you

30:14

go with wars generally speaking the more bored I

30:16

get Which

30:23

is insane to be bored by by war Or

30:27

I think that's what that people on top want you to

30:29

be they want you to be yeah I

30:34

will say I I find it very interesting

30:36

when I watch television

30:38

and movies That

30:41

are more related. Yeah, I find that

30:43

to be interesting Yeah,

30:47

yeah, it's built-in. It's funny that most

30:49

of our You

30:51

know exposure to war and movies kind

30:54

of paints the picture that a lot

30:56

of soldiers Looked and

30:58

sounded like actors, you know Only

31:02

people who play soldiers in movies for the most

31:04

part are like right, you know

31:06

Matt Damon and Tom Hanks and stuff And

31:09

an actual soldier if you saw that would probably

31:11

scare the shit out of you and that'd be

31:14

like kind of endearing You know,

31:16

right that's interesting So the best

31:18

stuff we're getting a little bit

31:20

off-topic My

31:24

favorite just on that note my favorite movie

31:26

war movie is they shall not grow old

31:29

Which is a documentary that came out like

31:31

seven years ago by Peter Jackson

31:33

the guy who directed King Kong

31:35

and all the Lord of the Rings Anyway,

31:38

he just found old war war

31:40

world war. I believe one

31:44

footage, yeah World War one and Slowed

31:47

it down and gave it color and like,

31:49

you know how those old Footages

31:51

like old footage was like is like

31:53

quicker people. Yeah Yeah,

31:57

yeah, that's because of some some something to do

31:59

with the frame frame rate that the film was

32:01

shot in or whatever, and he just slowed it down

32:03

and made it look like real. So it

32:05

just hits you in a totally different

32:08

way watching this footage. And it was

32:10

really less about the sort of battles

32:12

and more about a personal

32:15

soldier's experience being

32:18

drafted and then going to the front. And

32:21

it's a lot more about, sorry, now

32:23

I'm really off topic. We should really

32:25

have a lot of this. Yes,

32:27

it's a good movie. But it's more

32:30

about supplies and waiting than

32:37

it is about fighting. Yeah, yeah,

32:39

yeah, the fighting. Anyway. Let's

32:42

put the British soldiers up on the board. Yeah, yeah.

32:44

Put the British soldiers up on the board. Yeah.

32:46

This is from a history how stuff

32:49

works. According to British military

32:51

records accessed by the National

32:53

Geographic Investigation, in the early hours of

32:55

February 18, 1945, the

32:58

Allies discovered a desperate attempt by

33:01

hundreds of Japanese soldiers to swim

33:03

across a channel separating

33:05

Ramri Island from the Burmese

33:07

mainland. Except for a

33:09

few swimmers, it's doubtful that any survived

33:12

the crossing, reads the official British report,

33:14

according to the National Geographic. It's

33:17

estimated that at least 100 Japanese

33:19

were killed or drowned that

33:21

night. 200 killed

33:23

is regarded as a conservative estimate.

33:26

About 40 loaded boats

33:29

were known to have sunk.

33:32

Possibly another 50 Japanese died in

33:34

the mangroves from exposure and want

33:37

for food and water. 14

33:40

prisoners were taken. This

33:42

was most likely the real Ramri

33:44

Island massacre, one perpetrated by human

33:47

soldiers in an awful war and

33:50

not by bloodthirsty predators. Yeah.

33:53

So this was my feeling kind

33:55

of reading about this, is

33:58

that I was like, OK, obviously. like

34:01

zoologists or historians have said like,

34:05

like gators didn't kill all these

34:07

people. What probably happened was British

34:09

soldiers were avoiding

34:12

going through some kind of prisoner protocol.

34:14

Like they were like, all right, if

34:16

they give up or whatever,

34:18

you have to kind of go through this

34:20

other protocol. And they probably like starved them

34:22

out and maybe even killed some of them.

34:24

And they were just like, oh, the crocodiles

34:26

did it. Right. That was

34:28

kind of my feeling, but that's a

34:31

total speculation. Right. They blamed the crocodiles.

34:33

I had not even thought of that.

34:35

But just hearing that

34:37

now, that sounds like something that

34:39

would happen in war. You know?

34:42

I mean, and you can't even blame just

34:44

the crocodiles because some say sharks

34:47

were also. Really? Yeah, so

34:49

we should put sharks up on the board. Oh,

34:51

man. This is again from How Stuff

34:53

Works. When Stephen Platt's team

34:55

interviewed local villagers, they said that 10

34:57

to 15 Japanese soldiers may have been

34:59

attacked and killed by crocodiles as they

35:01

tried to swing the channel. Another

35:04

allied commander reported that the

35:06

escaping Japanese soldiers fell victim

35:08

to naval patrols and sharks

35:10

while attempting to reach the

35:13

mainland. So there's evidence that

35:15

at least some soldiers were killed by large

35:17

predators lurking in the water. I

35:19

mean, it would make sense. They were going to

35:21

have to cross the channel. Right.

35:24

And these waters had

35:29

sharks. Mm-hmm. But

35:33

they don't necessarily, I mean,

35:35

sharks aren't just necessarily attacking

35:38

you just because you enter the water. You'd

35:41

have to be entering like, this

35:43

is where I'm talking now to turn, but

35:45

they generally avoid humans unless they mistake you

35:48

for prey, is what I understand from most.

35:51

Oh, is that true? Yeah, like sharks

35:53

aren't necessarily just like going after

35:56

humans. It happens, but they generally

35:58

are more wary. of

36:00

humans unless they think you're like a seal, which is why

36:02

like a lot of times like surfers are attacked because of

36:04

like the bottoms of

36:06

their surfboards or

36:09

whatever. Yeah, and their their body suits

36:11

make them look like seals. Right, right. I

36:14

do think there is something to be said about like,

36:16

regardless of whether this like

36:19

how true the crocodile and shark

36:21

lure aspect of this is, it

36:23

really just seems like overall to

36:26

be to find yourself stuck being a

36:28

soldier in a war is

36:31

just the worst because I think all

36:33

you're doing is just literally trying to

36:35

dodge bullets and stay alive. And

36:37

in this case, maybe dodge like ancient

36:40

creatures that will pull you into the water. Well,

36:43

yeah, and yeah, going into

36:45

foreign territory, territory you're not familiar

36:47

with, I mean, you know, the

36:49

Japanese, they weren't, you

36:51

know, they were just invaded this new land

36:53

and they were like, I don't know, they didn't know what

36:56

was going on here. Do we put

36:58

man on the board? Man?

37:00

Oh, yes. Not woman. Yeah.

37:02

No, just man. Just man. Yeah.

37:05

Ladies, you get a free pass this time

37:08

around. Yeah. Yeah,

37:10

this one specifically feels like man. Yeah.

37:18

I also want to put Bruce Wright

37:21

up on the board and

37:23

his lofty storytelling.

37:26

This is from How Stuff Works again.

37:28

Wright wrote his one paragraph account of

37:31

the killer crocodiles in his 1962 book,

37:34

Wildlife Sketches Near and Far.

37:37

But then the story was picked up by another

37:39

scientist, the conservationist

37:41

Roger Caris in

37:44

his 1964 book, quote,

37:47

Dangerous to Man. Caris

37:49

called the Ramry incident one of

37:51

the most deliberate and wholesale attacks

37:54

on man by large animals that is on

37:56

record. Caris admits

37:58

that. The story come

38:01

from a source other than Bruce

38:03

right? I, I would it be

38:05

tempted to discounted by Bruce Right?

38:07

A highly trained professional naturalists was

38:09

there at Ram Murray. The problem

38:11

is that while Right was technically

38:13

at Ram Murray, he wasn't among

38:15

the witnesses who claims have heard

38:17

the cries of the Japanese as

38:19

they were mauled by the giant

38:21

crocodiles. According to a later retelling

38:23

of the story in his memoir,

38:25

The Frogmen of Burma. right?

38:27

Heard the story from British

38:29

comrades on the boat cruise

38:31

patrolling the island. Months

38:33

ago. so assemblage of name should

38:36

be Bruce. maybe rate. And

38:40

I. Set

38:43

sail the runway. As those eager

38:46

to grow. Nothing

38:48

is as I just think it will always.

38:50

There's something as you said before about a

38:53

deliberate attack. Them were dragged about like that

38:55

makes them so like the crocodiles were like

38:57

scheming. Or you know it's like this. all

38:59

we were doing when was being crocodile say

39:01

that we we blame you. Can I mean

39:04

known as again as is that when I

39:06

was going to be the thing that I

39:08

was gonna blow em like of course he

39:10

blamed crocodiles. The can you blame them where

39:13

you're backing off? Yeah or no. You put

39:15

yourself in a crocodiles environment whose fault is.

39:17

That is up with something and I'll something. That's

39:19

a good point. Yeah and is Why

39:21

are these so bummed five as kill my current economic?

39:23

It's kind of my fault. Yeah. Totally.

39:25

And if you're a crocodile, you're. You're.

39:28

Scared by this human there. but they

39:30

also a potential foods in a defending

39:32

yourself and eating food. It's like. You.

39:35

Dear do into good thing for yourself. Unless

39:39

you're there in that location because you were

39:42

draft in a war that somebody else started

39:44

that you just have to find it in

39:46

many like man this isn't my fault I'm

39:48

here the says yeah. You. Know

39:50

issue with has Hitler own the worse

39:52

who. A doll off

39:54

her own. Sure O K E Sure

39:56

the big guys. The. Average. Always

39:59

room for him. I'm

40:01

a gay. Guy

40:06

that that he, I, this is another

40:08

man. No one bad boy. hear that

40:10

man was. That

40:13

here's a i want to read a little. Slow

40:17

going, killer babbel it.

40:23

Is still doesn't feel right as a two

40:25

man or a crowd or a crowded of

40:28

neurons and. An.

40:31

And I worried a little. That

40:33

account Bruce's account. So. You

40:36

know how the region. Here. What what he had

40:38

to say! That. Night of

40:40

February nineteenth, Nineteen Forty Five was

40:43

the most horrible that any member

40:45

of the M L motor launch

40:47

cruz as were experience the crocodiles

40:49

alerted by the din of warfare

40:52

and smell of blood gathered among

40:54

the mangroves line with the rise

40:56

above the water. Watch fully alert

40:58

for the next for their next

41:00

meal. With the end of the

41:03

tide the crocodiles moved in on

41:05

the dead wounded and uninjured men

41:07

would become mired in the mud.

41:10

The scattered rifle shots in

41:12

the pitch black swan punctured

41:14

by the screams of the

41:16

wounded men crust in the

41:18

jaws of huge reptiles and

41:20

the blurred, whirring sound of

41:22

spinning crocodiles minutes a coffin

41:24

he of hell that was

41:26

rare that has rarely been

41:28

duplicated on earth. At dawn

41:30

the vultures arrived to clean

41:32

up with the crocodiles had

41:34

blessed. With. That's

41:36

just like good storytelling and so much

41:39

oh yes, you know, My. Developer

41:41

Lane or Bloom said you almost blame

41:43

like. It's like

41:45

you gotta write like that to get published.

41:47

Trust. Me

41:50

I mean like you embellished for like

41:52

this for the story of it, but

41:54

maybe not for the facts of it.

41:57

Well, it's true and you know.

42:00

This is a problem. We've had this discussion

42:02

on this podcast before, but

42:04

the difference between like nonfiction

42:07

writing, fiction writing and

42:10

history writing or something. And

42:12

it's like, you

42:15

know, this is maybe a guy who's

42:17

giving an account of nonfiction history writing

42:19

or something, but he's

42:21

just exaggerated certain elements

42:23

to the point of maybe it's egregious

42:26

and over he walked across the line.

42:29

It sounds too like if it a

42:31

telephone, right? Like if he wasn't there

42:33

firsthand and you have some just

42:35

like young soldier who's just, you

42:37

know, oh, I heard that they were ripping them

42:39

apart and suddenly the story gets bigger and bigger

42:41

by the time he gets to someone who's actually

42:43

documenting it, then you have a

42:45

whole narrative that might necessarily be accurate.

42:48

And isn't history just one big

42:50

bad game of telephones? Yes. Who's

42:53

writing it? I mean, it's scary.

42:56

It's that scares me. Guess

42:59

who's on the line right now. What? Oh,

43:02

I thought we were getting

43:04

a call. I

43:07

was like, who's coming from inside the podcast? Rebecca.

43:11

No, I guess Bruce Wright. Maybe

43:18

right. Bruce Wright. That's

43:20

totally true. That that's, um, you,

43:23

this guy, it sounds like he was given a couple

43:25

facts and then he just, you know, made

43:27

them, he wrote the, you know, the crocodiles

43:30

were just, what was the description? It's like

43:32

they're lurking with their eyeballs just above the

43:34

surface of the water. In a warfare or

43:36

whatever it's that, what is it saying? It's

43:38

very picturesque. Yes. If I were writing

43:41

that, I would have just said like there

43:43

were crocodiles. Or

43:47

maybe there were crocodiles there. There were

43:49

crocodiles over there. And some

43:51

people said they might've heard the

43:53

crocodiles munching on a human,

43:55

right? It's, you know, you gotta

43:58

like specify. whether

44:01

something is true or whether something

44:03

is just something you heard or

44:06

something they

44:09

see it with their eyes no

44:11

probably so should we put extraneous

44:14

detail up on the board

44:16

like lofty yeah like

44:19

a biage or chasing the story

44:21

or chasing them but but

44:23

it's a narrative over

44:26

over but

44:28

this all feels more like a post you

44:30

know incident kind of thing right like

44:32

it's right yeah not really the cause

44:34

of it right well

44:37

in this case how should we go about

44:39

this disaster should we question that it even

44:42

existed in the first place I mean should

44:44

I be more about you know

44:46

look clearly these there were

44:48

Japanese there were accounts of Japanese soldiers

44:50

basically being pushed into the mangroves and

44:53

like you know not what

44:55

do you call it not like becoming

44:58

prisoners or whatever mm-hmm you

45:01

know resisting being captured or whatever

45:03

and they some of them died

45:05

right but seems like there was a massacre but

45:08

it was like a mixed bag of what

45:10

actually took these soldiers out like yes crocodiles

45:12

might have been part of the story but

45:14

maybe it wasn't the only thing right right

45:16

can we take a quick poll who

45:19

here believes that that crocodiles

45:21

killed people at at Ramree I'm

45:24

gonna raise my my hand on I guess I

45:26

will say yes yeah I think they probably killed

45:28

a few yeah and that and you've got to

45:31

imagine like if you hear that it probably lives

45:33

larger in your mind like oh my god you

45:35

hear one person get killed by a crocodile that

45:37

you might assume that it's happening to a

45:40

lot of your fellow right right

45:44

I mean imagine the heightness of

45:46

being in wartime you're in

45:49

a battle you're stuck in a

45:51

mangrove someone's getting shot someone's eaten

45:53

by a crocodile like everything must

45:55

be really inflated and you're so

45:58

I don't know how you come out of that and not tell

46:00

a kind of super emotional

46:02

dramatic retelling of that. Right.

46:05

Yeah, I'm sure it felt, I'm

46:07

sure the feeling of what Bruce

46:11

wrote is probably

46:13

accurate. Is accurate, right. Yeah,

46:15

but the reality of it

46:17

is not so accurate. Yeah, that's

46:19

a good point. So maybe

46:21

it's like emotional reality versus

46:24

over actual reality. Well,

46:28

yeah. I

46:30

think Arthur's point is well taken

46:32

where we should focus maybe less

46:34

on the did or didn't it

46:37

happen, let's just assume something terrible

46:39

did happen, right, and there were

46:42

crocodile casualties, and then

46:44

try and find out who's to blame for those. Well,

46:47

so then we should put the mangroves up on

46:49

the board. Okay.

46:51

I want, I'm going to go real fast here.

46:54

Okay. Okay, because I want to talk a

46:56

little bit about mangroves and then something else. This

46:58

is from National Geographic. Saltwater swamps

47:01

form on tropical coastlines. Formation of these

47:03

swamps begin with bare flats of mud

47:05

and sand that are thinly covered by

47:07

seawater during high tides. Plants that are

47:09

able to tolerate tidal flooding, such as

47:12

mangrove trees, begin to grow and soon

47:14

form the thickest of roots and branches.

47:18

Mangrove trees often grow on

47:20

tall, thin roots. The

47:22

roots anchor sand and other sediments. The

47:25

growth and decay of the roots

47:27

increase the accumulation of soil. Among

47:29

these mangroves live animals that feed

47:31

on fallen leaves and other materials.

47:34

Crab, conchas, and other shellfish

47:36

are abundant in mangrove swamps.

47:39

The swamps are also home to a huge variety

47:41

of birds whose droppings

47:43

help fertilize the swamp.

47:46

Swamps are among the most valuable

47:48

ecosystems on Earth. They

47:51

act like giant sponges or

47:53

reservoirs. When heavy rains

47:55

cause flooding, swamps and other wetlands

47:58

absorb excess water. moderating

48:00

the effects of flooding. Swamps

48:02

also protect coastal areas from

48:04

storm surges that can wash

48:06

away fragile coastline. Saltwater

48:09

swamps are entitled salt marshes

48:11

help anchor coastal soil and

48:13

sand. They're

48:16

also going to go fast here. They're

48:18

like a water treatment. They

48:21

act as filters. Really?

48:24

Yes. So, I

48:26

mean, really useful, these mangroves. Yeah,

48:28

I didn't realize that. That

48:31

said, I would not want to be

48:33

stuck in one of these for

48:35

multiple days. Yeah,

48:37

no, not at all. These are

48:40

harsh. They're not friendly to humans.

48:42

No way. And

48:44

why? Because of mosquitoes.

48:47

Yeah. Put them up on the

48:49

board. Yes. Wow. This

48:52

is from all... You took a turn.

48:54

Oh, that's interesting. They understood that saltwater

48:56

crocodiles have a reputation for eating humans,

48:58

but they went into the mangrove swamps

49:01

of Ramri Island anyway. Soon

49:03

after entering the slimy mud

49:06

hole, Japanese soldiers began to

49:08

succumb to diseases, dehydration and

49:10

starvation. Mosquitoes, spiders, poisonous

49:12

snakes, and scorpions hid in the thick

49:14

forest and picked off some of the

49:16

troops one by one. This

49:19

is from History Daily. After a

49:21

bloody face-off, British troops managed to drive

49:23

nearly 1,000 enemy soldiers

49:25

into the dense mangrove swamp that covered

49:27

some 10 miles of Ramri.

49:30

The defeated Japanese soldiers ignored all

49:32

appeals by the British to surrender and

49:34

instead abandoned their base and entered the

49:37

swamp. Many of the Japanese

49:39

troops succumbed to tropical diseases carried by

49:41

swarms of mosquitoes and various

49:43

poisonous snakes. Lack

49:45

of drinking water and constant threat

49:47

of starvation were problems as well,

49:49

despite these numerous hazards, one danger

49:51

stood out the greatest, crocodiles. Yeah,

50:01

totally. There's

50:03

a book that Amanda

50:07

Lund gave me that is I haven't

50:10

read it in a long time but

50:12

it was it's called like mosquitoes the

50:14

the the biggest cereal killer the number

50:16

one serial killer And

50:19

it's fascinating to

50:22

learn about how Dangerous mosquitoes

50:24

are and how they're probably the

50:26

ones that will in the end

50:28

bring us down Wow,

50:31

we'll bring down the human species.

50:34

Yeah, they'll spread disease

50:36

or infection It's

50:39

called the mosquito a human history

50:41

of our deadliest predator. Yes It's

50:44

a great book Yeah,

50:46

we talked about this when we talk I forget what

50:48

we were saying But it is the number one not

50:50

you know, it's the animal or whatever you want to

50:52

call it Insect but not

50:54

you know, it's like thing that

50:56

kills humans Anyway, it's a little thing

50:58

that goes around sharing needles like, you

51:00

know, yeah Poke in

51:03

blood in one person and bring it to

51:05

another and bringing in along whatever bacteria is

51:07

in them along the way. I Mean

51:10

these mangroves just sound like the like

51:12

hell on earth. Yes You

51:16

know, this is how dumb I am is I like

51:19

when I'm hearing all this stuff I'm like, why didn't

51:21

they just have the war

51:23

somewhere? The

51:41

planners of the war Yeah

51:46

Put it up on the board put it up on

51:48

the board war planners Location

52:00

out. Yeah, the

52:03

war locations, the travel agents. Oh,

52:06

God. It was just like one

52:08

person working in

52:10

an office. What

52:13

about here? I don't know,

52:15

it's very nice that time

52:17

of year. It's everywhere. What's

52:21

also kind of sad about it too

52:23

is to think that these soldiers, instead

52:25

of surrendering, we're so like we're more

52:27

afraid of what would happen to them

52:29

as prisoners that they would really

52:32

go into such a harsh environment where

52:34

they were going to be like basically

52:36

slowly eaten alive and started. Yeah, it's

52:38

like one of the most ominous looking.

52:40

I don't even think I actually knew

52:42

to be fully honest what a mangrove

52:44

was before doing reading the

52:46

research packet that was nice nicely

52:48

put together for this podcast episode.

52:51

If you Google image search mangrove, it's

52:53

pretty damn harrowing. It's

52:56

pretty ominous. Yeah,

52:59

creepy. Well, unfortunately,

53:01

we are running out of time. And we are

53:03

going to just need to go with what we've

53:05

got on the board right now. We're going to

53:07

take a quick break and we're going to start

53:09

knocking things off. Ryan

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job on linkedin.com/people today. Okay

55:43

who's to blame for the Ramery

55:45

Island crocodile massacre? Is

55:47

it conspiracy theories? Crocodiles? World

55:50

War II? British soldiers? The

55:53

senselessness of war? Sharks?

55:55

Man? Bruce Wright's lofty

55:57

storytelling? Adolph Hitler? the

56:00

mangroves, mosquitoes, exposure,

56:02

or bad war

56:04

location scouting. What

56:08

a list. That's

56:11

a heck of a list. Proud of us. I

56:13

just want to say that out front. I'm real proud of

56:15

us. So, just to

56:17

clarify, we're going to try and figure out who's

56:20

to blame for the... The massacre.

56:23

The death. Yeah. Not

56:25

the crocodile massacre per

56:27

se. Yes. The

56:29

massacre, crocodiles were there. Yes.

56:32

So, I guess it's who is to blame for

56:34

the deaths of the soldiers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

56:38

Okay. So, if

56:41

that's the case, then the crocodiles do come off the

56:43

list, even though we know that... They

56:45

were part of it. They were part

56:47

of it. They probably killed a few. Yup.

56:50

Speculation, I know. But

56:56

it's highly unlikely

56:58

that they killed over 500 soldiers.

57:05

And more importantly, it's not like this is just

57:07

a group of tourists who are in a mangrove

57:09

checking out the mangroves. They were there for a

57:12

very specific reason that was

57:14

or wasn't really in their control, right?

57:17

Right. There's a bigger cause for

57:19

them to be in this locale. Right. And

57:22

I guess we're trying to figure out what that

57:24

bigger cause was. Yes. And

57:26

looking at the list, I'm like, I

57:28

don't think the cause was Bruce Wright's

57:30

lovely story. I think you're

57:32

right. I think he's to blame

57:34

for the... Maybe

57:37

the tall tale. Yes, the tall tale. Tall

57:39

tale. Tall tale. The bad history. The

57:42

bad news. Right? Like,

57:45

not the bad news, but like the

57:47

bad news telling. In

57:50

the game of history telephone,

57:52

he's the one in the

57:54

group who like intentionally changes

57:56

the word. And that's

57:59

so annoying. Yeah, I hate that.

58:06

We're all just trying to have fun like in

58:09

a sincere fun way. Yeah, we're not trying to

58:11

like see you goof around Mm-hmm.

58:13

I did do we then fold? Conspiracy

58:16

theories into Bruce Wright and take that off the

58:18

board as well. Yeah, let's do

58:20

that. Yeah I also feel like

58:22

we could maybe fold a couple of the

58:24

war related ones together. Perhaps What

58:26

do you guys think of this World War two? Hitler

58:29

and the senselessness of war are those all

58:31

rolled together or what do you guys think?

58:35

into what? Well, I

58:37

guess I wonder if it would

58:39

just be into the senselessness of war feels like

58:41

the big umbrella term there I can feel like

58:43

World War two is part of the senselessness of

58:45

war Hitler is too But maybe

58:47

maybe maybe the separate entities. I

58:49

don't know. I think for this

58:51

very specific incident The

58:54

senselessness of war makes a lot of sense

58:56

to me Me too Because

58:58

World War two took place on many

59:01

different Right in many

59:03

different areas, but in this

59:05

specific zone there was this

59:07

very specific Event

59:10

right and and that does speak

59:12

to the fog of war or

59:14

the senselessness of war, right? I

59:17

but if you're talking about this very

59:19

specific zone, do we blame the location?

59:26

I'll tell you what we gotta take the sharks off.

59:29

Yes, the shark gotta go They just got

59:31

dragged in there like other apex predators. So

59:33

people suddenly blame them too What

59:43

do you guys think of maybe eliminate mosquitoes

59:45

They just feel like that would have just

59:47

been kind of an annoyance a grievance an

59:49

added grievance at that I think I agree.

59:52

I think you go that goes into like

59:54

exposure to me as more. Yeah Yeah,

59:57

because mosquitoes were like you put you

59:59

you group mosquitoes with crocodiles,

1:00:01

right? Yeah. Yeah.

1:00:04

There are mosquitoes are just being mosquitoes. Right. Exactly.

1:00:07

I sometimes get those too confused. Like when

1:00:09

I'm looking at a mosquito, sometimes I'm like,

1:00:11

oh, holy shit. That's a crocodile. You

1:00:14

know what? They are around at the same time and

1:00:16

also with the crocodile. So maybe that's why. They're probably

1:00:18

related. They

1:00:21

go way, way back. True. They

1:00:23

do. They're probably old, old buddies, like

1:00:25

old, old buddies. If you ever

1:00:27

see a mosquito on a crocodile, they

1:00:30

just know that there's a lot of history.

1:00:32

They're catching up. They're catching up. And they're just catching up. This

1:00:39

sounds like a quickly rejected Pixar movie,

1:00:41

like what about a crocodile? And

1:00:45

then like be friendship that fans all the time. I

1:00:51

think we take British soldiers off. I feel like they kind

1:00:53

of fold into more.

1:00:56

Yeah. More. Yep. Mmm. I

1:00:58

see. Bad war

1:01:01

location scouting. I think you

1:01:03

take that one off because it's not an actual thing.

1:01:05

Yeah. I

1:01:07

think it's time. Yeah. Yeah. It's time. So

1:01:09

then we're left with, I mean, yeah, yeah.

1:01:12

We, they should think about where they're

1:01:14

going to have wars. Yeah. There's

1:01:16

better planning. That's

1:01:18

if, if wars were conducted by

1:01:21

women, then we would have

1:01:23

thought about that. We would be like,

1:01:25

I'm not there. Yeah. So it's not

1:01:27

during this time of year. Yeah.

1:01:30

Let's go. Let's do it in Ojai. Can

1:01:34

we just do it online? Can we move this to a zoom? Honestly,

1:01:37

I'd rather just talk. It could be an email.

1:01:41

It could be an email. Whoever

1:01:44

writes the best email wins the war. Yeah.

1:01:51

So what do we got? We've got the

1:01:53

senselessness of war. We've got man. The

1:01:57

mangroves and exposure. These

1:01:59

are really. good for

1:02:02

great top contenders. I

1:02:05

feel like the senselessness of war and

1:02:07

man are pretty closely linked. I'm not

1:02:09

exactly sure which one folds into

1:02:11

the other one, but they feel pretty similar

1:02:13

in this context to me.

1:02:17

I feel like you could fold man into

1:02:19

the senselessness

1:02:21

of war because

1:02:24

man is not all bad,

1:02:26

right? We don't want to say man and just

1:02:28

inherently assume bad, but man

1:02:30

gets into bad things. Right.

1:02:33

I do often wonder about

1:02:35

how much of human nature involves

1:02:37

conflict. Do you ever think about

1:02:39

that? I

1:02:41

do think about that, aren't there? I think about that a lot.

1:02:44

I do. Are we innately

1:02:46

prone to violence? Yeah. Is

1:02:49

it just enough? I

1:02:51

mean, we certainly are among ourselves

1:02:53

even, our own internal violence against

1:02:56

ourselves, right? It's

1:02:58

like a man that could manifest it

1:03:00

outward. I have a

1:03:02

hard time not separating

1:03:04

the gender when

1:03:07

it comes to the senselessness

1:03:10

of war and just like- You don't want

1:03:12

women to take the fall for this one. Yeah, because

1:03:14

I don't think we've made any of these calls.

1:03:17

None of these have been our calls. I

1:03:21

know. Especially in history. I guess I

1:03:23

was under the impression that I feel there was a woman.

1:03:26

Is that- I mean,

1:03:28

you never know. Arthur. Arthur.

1:03:32

What is your news channel that you- ABC

1:03:34

parenting? ABC parenting. Hitler was a

1:03:36

woman that grown up. So-

1:03:48

So you want to keep man going? Yeah,

1:03:50

because I don't think like- yeah,

1:03:52

none of these calls- I don't think the

1:03:55

mangroves should be blamed here. I don't either.

1:03:57

I think that goes into exposure. It's kind of like

1:03:59

Crocodile. Yeah I I

1:04:01

think this they're just being

1:04:03

there things. And and exposure

1:04:06

leisurely falls into the senselessness

1:04:08

of war. The. Right?

1:04:10

Because you're would not have had

1:04:12

to run to the mangroves. Completely

1:04:15

an hour later, under all

1:04:17

kinds. So. then

1:04:19

i hit we set send the

1:04:21

senseless of ward to the alarmists

1:04:23

jail and we slap a met

1:04:26

a man. Or. Man on

1:04:28

man. This. Is a really

1:04:30

bold move in and know if you guys have

1:04:32

ever done this on the podcast so feel free

1:04:34

to reject this but wouldn't have heard. Combine the

1:04:36

two and make it like this. Emphasis of ma'am.

1:04:39

No. Ma'am them by

1:04:41

like phone and mound of that.

1:04:45

Great. Lake. I mean, it's cake.

1:04:47

especially for code. I met war

1:04:49

and man, being a little bit

1:04:51

inextricable even isn't. An.

1:04:53

Arena in which case of a slap

1:04:56

the man and then throw them in

1:04:58

jail. Like is that the as that

1:05:00

it. Like. A

1:05:02

double whammy? Right Like the or

1:05:04

do we just not to give a

1:05:06

slap as true put the senselessness of

1:05:08

man. Into. I do really like

1:05:11

that's off the hook. Okay. Yeah.

1:05:13

I I I I can. I can

1:05:16

get behind that occur. Because.

1:05:19

It is at war is a

1:05:21

man. It's

1:05:23

it's. a. It's a creation

1:05:26

is a man thing. Nice. Yeah, I

1:05:28

mean especially this war is really. I

1:05:30

think you're totally right to to separate

1:05:33

the genders on this one. That

1:05:36

this is a many of them.

1:05:38

the more his job was just

1:05:40

in our brought the boroughs need

1:05:42

to take the fall here. Yeah

1:05:44

yeah, senseless senseless men, Senseless handyman

1:05:46

men. And I. I. I

1:05:48

I like that. I'm gonna call it. The.

1:05:50

Senseless ness of man.

1:05:53

You're. Going to the alarm is scales.

1:05:57

And everyone's faces is.

1:06:00

soft and smooth and not hurting because no

1:06:02

one got slapped. When

1:06:04

someone does get slapped on the podcast, is

1:06:07

there, you guys add a slap sound effect?

1:06:09

I appreciate it. Okay, cool. Okay, that's good.

1:06:11

Mm-hmm. Do you want to just do one,

1:06:14

like, should we slap something just so we can hear

1:06:16

the sound effect? Slap them with speedo. Yes,

1:06:18

I'll slap them with speedo. Yeah, okay, we can slap

1:06:20

them with speedo. And honestly, that'll kill

1:06:23

it. Yeah. True. All

1:06:30

right, all right. Mosquitoes, you're getting the big

1:06:33

slap. My God, we

1:06:35

just killed cells? Yeah. Nice.

1:06:38

All right, well, Arthur, I mean, thank you

1:06:40

so much for joining us today and helping

1:06:43

us get to the bottom of the Ramree

1:06:45

Island Crocodile Massacre. We couldn't have done this

1:06:47

without you. Thank you so much. You

1:06:49

guys are the most delightful people with whom

1:06:51

to discuss a deeply harrowing and troubling topic.

1:06:54

Oh, yeah. In

1:07:00

the aftermath, in 2001, Steven

1:07:05

Platt, a specialist in reptiles, interviewed Ramree

1:07:07

residents who were alive during the

1:07:09

war, and they unanimously discounted any

1:07:11

suggestion that

1:07:13

a large number of Japanese soldiers fell

1:07:16

prey to crocodiles. Platt

1:07:18

also established that Bruce Wright hadn't

1:07:21

been on the island during the attack. They were

1:07:23

the only ones who had been part of the

1:07:25

force of the attack. The Alarmist is

1:07:27

now on Patreon. To save and get

1:07:30

free content along with bonus episodes, go

1:07:33

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1:07:35

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1:07:37

Visit our website, www.thealarmist.com and

1:07:41

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Today's episode was produced and engineered by

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The Amarmus is executive produced by

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Rebecca Delgado-Smith. Tune

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365-day returns. Welcome

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to another round of Drawing Board

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or Miro Board. Today, we talk

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Brainstorms with UX designer Brian. Let's

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go. First question. You thought you'd

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see everyone's idea in the team brainstorm. But

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you've got a grand total of one. Drawing

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board or Miro board? Drawing board, right? Because in

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Miro, the team can add ideas now or later.

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And with privacy mode, we can keep them anonymous

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until they're good to share. Correct. Next. You

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need the best way to explain your idea, but all

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you have is a few sticky notes. Drawing board or

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Miro board? Drawing board. because

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you know in Miro I could record

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videos at text images links and digital

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sticky notes of course present my thoughts

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the way I want. Right again! Now

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you're looking for a pass later you

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thought was just genius only you could

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find oh there it is! Gloring board

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or Miro? All our finished and unfinished

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he's won. Join over 60 million people

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your first three boards for free at miro.com.

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That's miro.com. Haycast

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powers the world's best podcast.

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Here's the show that we recommend. Welcome

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back to 2 Judgey Girls. I'm Mary from the

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Bay. And I'm Courtney from

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L.A. TJG is the podcast where we

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spill all the tea on your favorite

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reality TV shows, celebrity gossip and everything

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in between. We're here to bring you

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our unfiltered opinions, hilarious commentary and plenty

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of laughs along the way. We're

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two SDSU Delta Gamma sisters with a microphone

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and a whole lot of opinions. Each

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week we dive head first into the

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to all the trash TV you could

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want. We break down

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share our thoughts on everything from the

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jaw-dropping moments to the embarrassing antics. But

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that's not all. We're not here to just gossip. We're

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here to connect with you the jurors and share our

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we're dishing on the latest celebrity breakups,

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discussing our favorite guilty pleasure movies or

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sharing embarrassing stories from our own lives,

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we promise to keep it real, keep

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