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the TED Radio Hour. Each

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week groundbreaking, TED Talks

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or job. That was delivered at

0:24

Ted conferences to bring about the future.

0:27

We want to see around the world, understand.

0:30

who we are from know talks we

0:32

bring you speakers and idea

0:34

is that will surprise you

0:36

he just don't know what you're gonna find challenge

0:38

you which we have that's ourself my why the

0:40

know where the and

0:41

the change you i literally feel like i'm

0:43

indifferent first said as see

0:46

feel that way ideas for

0:48

setting

0:49

and head and npr

0:56

maybe you've heard it may be haven't i'm a new

0:58

summer ot it is the true stories

1:01

about the first american woman who they

1:03

ever sent to spain the name wife

1:05

sally ride remember

1:08

when nasa sansa mean

1:10

, say for six

1:12

seasons

1:23

the is marsha belsky and

1:25

may as will that be enough

1:29

i'm out here is a sin

1:31

in brooklyn new york and marsha

1:34

is best known for this song

1:36

about a very real of end one

1:38

hundred tampons went viral at

1:41

the start of the pandemic there

1:43

she is on the ten feet performing

1:45

a successor

2:02

or for the first time

2:04

first time ah

2:09

and i see young man earning

2:11

panic through the crown

2:16

i think

2:19

one and

2:21

then

2:29

one

2:31

for me for one are we

2:36

the a more

2:37

now it out what made you write a song

2:40

about sally ride as a song

2:42

that is essentially mocking now

2:46

so there is a story i think on vog

2:48

thought com she talks about

2:50

how they gave her a hundred tampons incident

2:53

i understand why that was kind of a ridiculous

2:56

number and what was funny to me is that

2:58

the only thing i know that states adventures is that

3:00

they are so selective

3:03

about what comes on board down

3:05

to the sounds like it's like you cannot have an extra

3:07

pair of socks so is so funny to me

3:09

that they were a lot the even hundred

3:12

the

3:15

her away is a hundred the right number

3:17

and now that it's not

3:19

the right

3:25

and they also designs a make that

3:27

fit for her that they wanted

3:29

her to the faith and she also said

3:32

no thanks for

3:34

, gas a makeup cat or a

3:37

i mean it does feel like this story

3:39

this story ridiculous

3:41

to be true but it is true and

3:44

it's kind of hilarious

3:46

it did you wonder though what is why

3:48

this song of yours became so popular

3:50

was it the timing was it the topic

3:52

the tune i didn't

3:54

there because you know i've had other songs

3:56

that were semi his but we're not ever going

3:58

to go mainstream like this on older

4:00

white men should die but not my dad like

4:03

we did it's a really political like seven

4:05

and signs that signs think hartford

4:07

in a cop in terms of where they can go

4:10

audience live i think that

4:12

i'm hundred him fondly very feminist and

4:14

third of like pushed people a

4:17

little there but it's not like so

4:19

as he that it's not how it

4:21

evolved to lake them you

4:23

know i mean by in terms of i was

4:25

successful in general i

4:27

didn't realize it until it was doing

4:29

an interview for some local news station and she

4:31

was like well don't you think it's

4:33

great that you started all this conversation

4:35

around period

4:38

and i had a

4:40

hundred people messaging me i

4:42

talked to my about my period for the first

4:44

time and the dad is open to that

4:46

because i think that's the hard thing to is that society

4:48

tells us to talk about period

4:50

there are then who wants to talk about

4:52

periods for don't know how you know

4:55

and though i

4:57

think the middle all areas humor

4:59

can be oh really the way for people

5:01

to just accept most

5:03

and and conversations in a way that feels

5:06

a little bit safer and so

5:08

my goal if i comedy was the all his

5:11

habit see that thing where you can

5:13

get people to talk about things that are uncomfortable

5:16

because they're months and

5:22

harmony you know everyone

5:24

, a good chuckle chuckle

5:26

how we relax lighten the mood

5:29

humor can also be used as also the

5:31

grip were going to provoke

5:34

joe college enduring

5:36

, time when they're not

5:38

that much to laugh about me

5:40

we should be wielding it more often if

5:43

one of the show today ideas

5:45

about using humor as humor as

5:47

for talking politics

5:49

business and even happen to

5:51

our technology and if you're thinking

5:54

nothing is less funny than

5:56

the plane and why something is funny

5:59

humor needless

6:02

because after her tampons on went viral

6:04

comedian marsha belsky discovered

6:06

that some people really wanted

6:08

to explain why of song

6:11

wasn't funny

6:15

oh

6:16

men on the internet was furious of

6:18

this on here she is again on

6:20

the ted stevens they were enraged

6:22

so i wanted to show you some of my favorite

6:25

genres of comments

6:27

that i got so the first

6:29

one we have what i call the honest critic does

6:31

offering a critic

6:33

are you prepared it was funny at

6:35

first but then she ruins at okay alright

6:38

let's hear him out someone said please

6:40

elaborate i

6:43

criticism of here she

6:45

got up at about the tampons

6:48

and you know what fair so you

6:50

know i'm gonna take the i mean to be honest the tampons

6:53

is sort of essential a

6:55

fine but

6:57

, take the knows you know know

6:59

work it going forward this

7:02

next one arm this next microgravity

7:05

expert and this this was

7:07

an absolutely amazing phenomenon

7:09

because what happened was some

7:12

with and the three to four minutes

7:14

of my song thousands

7:16

, men on the internet became experts

7:19

in microgravity and man

7:21

three cents and i

7:23

think that is so impressive because normally

7:25

about sort of sixty years to

7:27

really understand is that understand

7:29

is time nobody had experience having a period

7:31

of microgravity are allowed really

7:36

that's what they're angry about his are sitting at their

7:38

computer my bag it's

7:41

been a either

7:44

side sweet

7:46

how much they wanted

7:48

the fans you know the integrity of

7:50

the nasa scientists that like you

7:52

know hang on these people had her

7:54

best interests at heart with giving her under tampons

7:56

for a week he goes there was a really

7:59

good see i'm so i can't remember who

8:01

wrote

8:01

that they fell i was a man with to

8:03

send me as much as hell defend a man

8:05

has never met him

8:08

and really really feel

8:10

protective that is a community the

8:13

whole thing is there is science

8:15

behind periods that they could

8:17

have looked into just like they do

8:20

for any other bodily functions unfair

8:23

instead they just wanted to throw

8:25

a hundred times that the play the and runaway

8:27

the one okay the one feedback

8:30

that you got or challenge to the

8:32

premise that it was not

8:34

the right thing to do to give her one hundred tampons

8:36

was the like will what is something happened

8:38

she was stuck in space to

8:42

, out out do you think about it

8:44

about ,

8:45

the your by the whole thing is just really

8:47

funny because it's like this she

8:50

was up there and she needed a hundred tampons

8:52

because the i'm like account info the the

8:54

law the correct answer and to be on a sudden

8:57

fulfilling a lot the the hundreds

8:59

of other the worth of of view

9:02

ivanka trump like a big muslim and use

9:04

about ten tampons per period

9:07

the either thing is that funny

9:09

to me as i do not think they were trying

9:11

to be say if i don't think they gave her

9:13

one hundred like let's just be safe if

9:15

i think they're like is this a i did

9:17

without saudi you like the

9:19

the prize for to chew the fat girl whereas

9:22

here have you know what if you

9:24

have been

9:26

women her the song and laugh because they know what

9:28

periods are they know i am hundred him on the funny

9:30

number

9:31

men heard the song and they're like line googling

9:34

and i can see that most them and use three to ten tampons

9:36

per day ten being an absolute disaster

9:38

of a flow that's the size of an

9:41

, that sir

9:43

have , because this is what their fear

9:46

was less than an amount come

9:50

out about one

9:53

hundred

9:54

my grandfather for

9:56

in real trouble up their boys

10:01

he was the only woman in a super know organization

10:04

and i think that for your phone connected with a lot

10:06

of people

10:07

if i had which finds the women messaging

10:09

me from all sorts of professions

10:12

being like i'm the only woman at my job

10:14

i really connect with this feelings as it's

10:16

more about that as well as more about

10:19

all of these little things that happen when you're

10:21

working with man who just

10:23

don't even know that they don't know about

10:25

women's lives

10:28

okay as a comedian your

10:30

goal is

10:32

hurry to go mainstream which you did with this

10:34

song

10:36

did you care that maybe i don't

10:38

know half the audience was like

10:41

mad at you or did you had just

10:43

not give a crap

10:46

i think it not with my i don't think my goal

10:48

is to go mainstream honestly i mean i

10:50

kind of made a decision pretty early

10:53

on in my career that

10:55

i was tired of the standard

10:58

being high you had to make the

11:00

man in the audience laugh and

11:02

then hopefully the women as well as

11:04

like you know in place of i started

11:06

doing this kind of over the top feminists

11:08

humor and that part

11:10

of that was because i the only cared

11:13

about flake making the

11:15

women as

11:17

the comedy

11:19

standard has always been the

11:21

girlfriend sitting quietly next to the boyfriend

11:24

waiting

11:24

the be a few clamping and i was like

11:26

screw that you know so when i finally

11:29

reached that point in my career realizing like

11:31

i really didn't need them and i could be much more

11:33

myself without worrying

11:38

every day freeing

11:41

i mean with your comedy you now have

11:43

this huge plat i'm you can speak

11:46

the ragweed to women also

11:48

demand and people who are

11:50

gonna disagree with you but maybe

11:53

you get them to think a little bit about topics

11:56

that he don't like thinking about oh

11:58

yeah i mean

12:00

i think that i stand up comedy especially

12:02

ali size so powerful it because it's

12:04

literally the person out there

12:06

with a microphone who all

12:08

the sudden has

12:10

the real deal threatening power

12:12

to somebody in power if they can make

12:14

a thousand people laugh

12:16

and so i think humor is the ultimate

12:19

tool i

12:21

think humor is that for that i have found

12:23

the most pleasure and hope and

12:26

and i think humored says give

12:29

people the ability to be honest

12:32

with themselves and be

12:33

honest about the world without

12:36

that defeated feeling overcoming

12:39

them so quickly

12:41

the reason why like you know if you've ever been breathing

12:44

or have you ever like going through a breakup

12:46

link and you have found one with first

12:48

to laugh at you got after you've been

12:50

crying for three days or whatever nothing

12:53

in the you're better than that

12:57

and so humor ungrateful

12:59

fire

13:03

that comedian marshall belsky

13:05

you can see her full talk at pad

13:07

that come on the show today

13:10

humor i managed them

13:12

or howdy and you're listening to the ted radio

13:14

hours npr will be right

13:16

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slash your slash n pr

14:39

had radio our from npr

14:41

i'm a new summer ot on

14:43

the show today humorous

14:46

i i i have some jokes eight a cat

14:48

you know promise that that they'll be funny

14:51

that they are jokes i think you'll agree they are

14:53

jokes this isn't it in israel

14:55

and these areas that were discovered is that you could imagine

14:58

a late night host cratty liza

15:00

that's the aesthetic venus is a computer

15:02

scientist but i called him to

15:04

hear some jokes i

15:07

, report says that americans are living

15:09

longer that's the good good bad

15:11

news is that a lot of them are living in new in

15:15

and i grew up in new jersey but i

15:17

can take and sisters is a bit of a punching

15:19

of with bombs speaking

15:21

of punching bags speaking , man

15:24

says he found a rattlesnake in a bag of frozen

15:26

broccoli that's terrible as

15:28

hey you should have brought for us

15:32

that am laughing because it's true frozen barclays

15:35

gross it's just my see now

15:37

it's debate though whether these jokes

15:39

are funny

15:40

maybe like so bad they're

15:42

funny they're definitely

15:43

weird i'll give you a give you a more i

15:46

joined us when a ,

15:48

in australia has found a spider in their bananas

15:50

ticket to a reptile parks where it laid

15:53

over one thousand eggs or

15:55

the woman said she was surprised to find so many eggs

15:57

but that she remembered she'd bought them at casco

16:01

yeah that's good that's good

16:03

sounds from my mother and my thing what

16:05

makes these jokes so interesting

16:08

is that zenith did not write them

16:10

a friend did not write them they were

16:12

not discovered in some bargain bin

16:14

joke books in fact no

16:17

one

16:17

then yes it these jokes

16:19

are actually generated by a machine there

16:22

is a model called cpt three

16:24

which is made ,

16:26

via an organization called up and ai ai

16:30

it's actually not a joke model

16:32

per se it's a more general language

16:35

model and it's

16:37

model a lot of different purposes but it turns out it's

16:39

also quite good at figuring

16:42

out this is that i can shape of

16:44

of jokes then it has long

16:46

been the needed by artificial intelligence

16:49

he's worked on ai at i b m

16:51

netflix and now roadblocks and

16:53

he says a big hurdle with artificial

16:56

intelligence is just getting people

16:58

to interact with their and

17:00

ai more seamlessly

17:02

computational humor could help

17:04

bridge that gap

17:05

that's right i'm talking about computational

17:08

humor that's using computers

17:10

to generate and understand humor here's

17:12

been as misra on the ted states financial

17:15

field the joke

17:19

so computer says these are getting smarter

17:22

the getting smarter but they're also developing also sense

17:24

of humor

17:26

and they have the potential to change

17:28

how we relate to and mechanical friends but

17:30

also how we relate to each other the

17:32

be clear i don't think this is just a curiosity

17:36

computers increasingly surround us in our lives

17:38

i think it's going to be a necessity i

17:41

wasn't always convinced that the value of a related

17:43

will miss seen let alone as

17:45

making you laugh with software why would i need my softer

17:47

to lighten the mood right a

17:50

closer look at myself

17:52

come on an angry man but i routinely

17:54

fantasize about taking my laptop and smashing

17:56

it against iraq know

17:58

people people me too the

18:01

difference is that with people i

18:03

have a safety valve called humor

18:06

even though they call with comcast someone crocs a joke

18:08

it changes the whole dynamic

18:11

we can look at humor a sort of the wd forty

18:13

of human interactions in

18:16

a world are increasingly surrounded by computers

18:19

we're going to desperately need some of that lubrication

18:21

or we're going to drown in the frustrations

18:26

the new appreciation of the power

18:28

of humor goes way back to his childhood

18:31

when he realized how quickly jokes

18:33

i could help him make friends we were

18:35

moving around a lot and they didn't really have a

18:37

very static set of friends that

18:39

, born in india but of pennsylvania than

18:41

them a than california and you know i

18:43

wasn't necessarily the most gregarious

18:46

person to begin with it and it wasn't

18:48

the easiest thing thing but i

18:50

i did realize you know like cracking

18:52

jokes could be a way to make those

18:54

make a and what

18:56

i resorted to was in hindsight basically

18:58

creating these sort of algorithms for jokes so

19:01

i started with a joke like this one what do you call it

19:03

be that eats too much a sub you okay

19:05

i was in elementary school a company some flak

19:08

now i'd recognize not being a

19:10

total more than that the total more in this joke

19:12

comes from the similarity of chubby and beat and

19:14

then i'd replicate this tons of times what do you call

19:17

a be that's good for your health of vitamin b what do you

19:19

call a a newborn be a baby what

19:21

do you call it be in the spring a maybe you get the idea

19:24

now what's interesting

19:26

though is that this this process

19:27

the drive for you this very hawkish and and

19:29

creative process it may not sound like

19:32

an algorithm it it it

19:34

and now as an adult as a technologists

19:37

you look back any you see

19:39

sort of very rudimentary

19:42

coding that was happening was happening mind

19:44

right

19:46

yeah absolutely me that that stuff was essentially

19:48

algorithms right it's a very simplistic algorithm

19:50

if you if you had to replicate what

19:53

i was doing with that computer and this is actually

19:55

kind of like old school natural language processing

19:57

earth's gravitational humor this

20:00

case you craft a sentence that

20:02

structured in a very particular way that need certain

20:04

words or phrases that set certain parts

20:06

of speech harbor , rules and

20:08

that center said you look up basically

20:11

list of words that kind of fit that

20:13

profile and you kind of soft the

20:15

men i his sister very deterministic

20:17

honestly kind of a dumb process most

20:20

the thinking is happening when you're creating

20:22

that structure in the first place that's where place the

20:24

three to put on your thinking hat

20:26

the guy reminds me of mad libs you know just

20:28

swapping in nouns and verbs can

20:30

make funny surprising sentences

20:33

yeah know absolutely nothing bad lives as

20:36

a is a wonderful connection to

20:38

eat other the sort of algorithms and

20:40

and mad libs are actually

20:42

the are and helga them or they just have

20:45

a prompt where where humans it after some of the

20:47

data in there

20:48

you that more generally and broadly

20:50

we're gonna have to go beyond plans to

20:52

the more unstructured and and subtle

20:55

humor that we humans in a gauge and are pretty regularly

20:57

me think about the last thing that made you laugh

21:00

this is are not only was it not a pun it

21:02

probably wasn't even a joke

21:05

sometimes the real goal for us here it's not

21:07

necessarily to create machines that are going to write jokes

21:10

for us but to create machines

21:12

with personalities that we find humorous

21:14

find humorous the

21:17

get the personalities that we

21:19

often have to go through language and

21:21

language is a bear

21:24

your average english speaker knows tens of thousands

21:26

of words and breaks for medical rules about as

21:29

often as he follows the couldn't

21:31

get past that there's issues of ambiguity

21:33

context and and general common sense

21:35

knowledge when i asked you how much as president

21:38

obama make

21:39

then how you know i'm asking about his salary

21:41

not about how much soupy makes

21:44

this is very hard to encode into an algorithm but

21:47

in recent days we may have caught a break

21:49

we may sound a back door the

21:51

doctor as a big sign on it it's a hint

21:54

the sign reads data

21:59

those me

22:00

they've years versatile but i did the world are just

22:02

so complicated it's actually

22:04

pretty hard to capture all of them with a set

22:06

of rules and that's where receive

22:08

any kind of came in as an alternative

22:11

tall of us were instead

22:13

of try to write a lot these roles yourself

22:15

you actually let the machines can do that

22:17

for you know , you give

22:19

up but the data to them as a sort of evidence

22:22

and observations about whether it's

22:24

human behaviors human language

22:27

language have you may be examples of jokes

22:29

avid you sort of allow the proceeds

22:31

to allow the out those rules other

22:33

oh

22:35

and how how how good are they

22:37

at this point because you know is of course

22:39

we have facial recognition as

22:42

photo recognition that's gotten really

22:44

good like it knows it's knows it's tiger that's

22:46

for sure if have to grow know the fits you

22:48

split where are we in terms of

22:50

languages a very different earlier

22:53

the and to understand and parse

22:55

ray and and and i feel like a lot of the time i

22:58

hear that as leads talk

23:00

about machine learning we don't necessarily know

23:02

what the machine has taught itself

23:04

to look

23:04

for right yeah yeah there

23:06

is a little bit of this blackbox phenomenon

23:09

where you're sorta during a bunch of data at it and it's

23:11

sort of figuring it out but it's actually kind

23:13

of mysterious what it's doing inside their you

23:15

, most of the computers you interact with today

23:18

when they see something to you or they put some

23:20

language to you something for you to read a

23:23

more often than not that is almost always

23:25

that is not generated by a computer

23:27

that's usually written by a human

23:29

being being it's being kind of

23:31

canned and and delivered to you to

23:34

a and the reason is that the generation

23:36

just isn't quite reliable and quite

23:38

enough i'm so even those

23:40

examples of jokes i gave earlier

23:42

those are cherry picked rates like those are probably

23:45

like the top ten percent of outputs

23:48

from , model i can give you the more typical

23:50

outputs a yeah let's hear it yeah

23:53

so so here's one a

23:55

a man in florida was arrested after

23:57

he tried to pay for his mcdonald's order with

23:59

cocaine police said they do something

24:01

was up when he tried to get shades for a happy

24:03

meal

24:05

so it's it's it's side of lake sir

24:07

really funny at it has such

24:10

as the shape of a joke right it's got like florida

24:12

sky mcdonnell said hey

24:15

these are all things i would expect a tally loretta

24:17

ah that's that's a really strong indicator

24:19

honestly but it's but at

24:21

the other the day it's not really a cohesive joke

24:23

doesn't really make a lot of some know it's kind

24:26

of trippy

24:29

i mean the key here is that

24:32

the machines need that

24:34

amounts of data rate like

24:36

so where does this data

24:39

come from it's yeah

24:41

note the great question and and and yeah

24:44

there's this does is today in machine learning

24:46

called garbage in garbage out right

24:48

like if you if you put it garbage data years

24:51

machine's gonna basically produce a garbage for

24:53

you to spread false of biases

24:55

that many like the type of data your training

24:57

on well and form your outputs in ways that

24:59

you buy that even realize it it's

25:01

really like holding up a mirror to ourselves them

25:04

in some cases that the not the prettiest

25:06

parts of ourselves the reminding

25:08

me of them that

25:10

infamous incidents in

25:12

a few years ago when microsoft

25:14

had a twitter bot and racist twitter

25:16

about do you remember that yeah yeah

25:18

those

25:19

you can explain what happened there that

25:22

, make us are created was a

25:24

basically a chat bot on i believe it is twitter

25:28

and as and that's the thing about the spot

25:30

was not only

25:32

was their trade on historical language

25:35

but it was also be trained on the

25:37

conversations it was continuing to have

25:39

with the man , is basically

25:41

people could basically continue to

25:43

influence how the spot behaved

25:45

by engaging with it on twitter ah

25:48

so you can imagine where the story goes

25:51

i wasn't very long before they had turned

25:53

this seemingly innocent

25:56

social experiment into

25:58

ya this into ya the nazi

26:00

like twitter presence that

26:02

was saying things that you know i could leave and repeat

26:05

writer

26:07

okay so clearly computation or humor

26:10

can get

26:11

the indirectly offensive very quickly

26:13

especially if it's trying to hard yeah

26:16

but what about when the stakes are lower

26:18

they didn't like it is interesting because designers

26:20

i feel like has some rules

26:23

of thumb and they've evolved over time around

26:25

like what is the right amount of humor

26:28

to inject into your web app

26:30

designer your your copy that you're putting

26:32

into your website and and

26:34

it does norms have shifted over time like if you look

26:36

at what a for at four page look like

26:38

an eternity ninety eight when

26:41

you compare it to the kind of fun

26:43

type show key for a four pages

26:46

that we see nowadays

26:47

you mean like when a link is broken and you end up

26:49

on a web page where it says oops nothing to

26:51

see

26:52

there yeah i think you know this may

26:54

be acceptable humor opportunity there right like what

26:56

if you could actually remarks at have multiple life

26:58

where a four pages and it actually becomes

27:00

kind of like a little bit of softening of

27:02

the experience of the frustration that you feel

27:05

when you're not fighting what you're looking for your

27:07

remind

27:08

me of my experience the other day trying

27:10

to rebook an airline ticket with a

27:12

bot that the airline meme

27:14

that nellie and she was the funny

27:16

she wasn't even that helpful but

27:18

did we get to a place where the the these

27:21

programs are good enough

27:23

to be reliably funny and

27:25

make these interactions a little

27:27

more enjoyable

27:29

we get question everything it's like it's it's

27:31

also a bit of a philosophical on around art

27:33

because like because comedy is a form of iron

27:35

and it a six years and example of

27:37

that were you know a joke you know was

27:40

that written by humid as as that still the and

27:42

and i guess in some ways it is i think

27:44

it's it's definitely testing the

27:46

limits of you know like way

27:49

the document computer relations

27:51

can can look like gas

27:54

i mean if is the ultimate

27:57

current cast you think like the openness

28:00

the grey question that certain ways yes

28:02

right because humor is

28:04

it is often thought of as sort of like over

28:08

that a place where we're we're not that

28:10

far this frontier of of

28:12

semen intelligence and and and natural

28:14

language because it it encompasses

28:17

so many things that are difficult to quantify

28:19

is it it contains a lot of cultural

28:22

context around like that types of

28:24

things that people tend to find funny and those

28:26

offered very culture to culture and

28:28

, it still has to kind of makes sense

28:31

which is it argued little these quantifiable

28:33

and hardest thing to really get your head around around

28:36

ib i would definitely are you you know like if

28:38

we have a free been able to solve humor that

28:41

that is in many ways the hardest the so

28:43

i get i think like there's clear like utility

28:46

to humor but i do think there's some nuance

28:48

around like when it's appropriate

28:50

to use it and when it's not sorry

28:52

and i think even like in these human

28:55

designed by experiences that

28:57

stole like the figured out honestly

29:00

some watch this space yes

29:02

definitely wants the space

29:05

that venus misra he's a computer

29:07

scientist at the video game company

29:09

roadblocks you can see his full

29:11

talk at ted that the on

29:15

a show today humor so

29:19

far computer is can't use humor on

29:21

command but let's be honest

29:24

many you can't either the

29:26

i'm i'm humor needs

29:28

because yeah

29:30

it's not about being funny it's just about

29:32

having this mindset of levity

29:35

levy can be especially useful

29:38

in tough times at work though

29:41

it's march twenty twenty hundred

29:44

human yo man is the cosimo of

29:46

large non profits and

29:48

his organization has just moved to being

29:50

fully or melt this is naomi

29:52

bag

29:53

he consults with ceos like

29:56

conor who was leading his first

29:58

virtual so

30:00

all of the employees are two inch faces

30:03

on a screen and this is a really new saying

30:05

for this entire culture people

30:07

are exhausted they're scared it's

30:09

scared really tense time carter

30:12

wants to be inspiring he wants

30:14

to show care but he's not quite

30:16

sure though he's

30:18

presenting and he's singer marks

30:21

he had prepared having

30:23

that moment that we've probably all

30:25

had when we're leading prepared remarks were we

30:27

realized that are completely falling flat

30:30

and especially in this moment he realizes

30:33

he's just not saying the right things though

30:36

make a split second decision

30:38

honor ends his remarks but

30:40

he intentionally continues to share

30:42

his screen

30:43

the entire organization watches

30:46

terrified as connor

30:48

opens up a google search and types

30:50

in things inspiration yo

30:52

say during hard times and

30:56

everyone loses

30:58

that he

31:00

had a couple people reach out to him and say

31:02

it was the first time since

31:04

the start of the pandemic since all

31:07

going to to remote work that

31:09

they had seen as screen full of smiles

31:12

laughter can keep a crucial moment of from

31:14

turning into a crisis as

31:16

a business consultant that's what naomi

31:19

her clients it's also when

31:21

she teaches her students i

31:23

am a lecture at stanford graduate

31:25

school of business of the coauthor of humor seriously

31:27

with

31:28

jennifer author that's jennifer

31:30

aka the behavioral psychologist

31:32

i'm an academic a month on mom

31:35

really good friend together

31:37

see naomi have been studying how

31:39

or can be a tool in business

31:42

like that moment when connor poked fun

31:44

at himself in front of his entire staff

31:49

so when he does is very simple thing

31:51

as such a significant set of benefit

31:54

number one we know from the research that

31:57

leader that a sense of humor any

31:59

sense of humor

32:00

the bar is so like

32:03

of did they tend to be somewhere between twenty

32:05

side and thirty percent more the

32:07

the beating and admired and

32:09

then that report to leader

32:11

is like connor they are more

32:13

engaged and satisfied at work are

32:16

, more creative and if

32:18

you think about this to to

32:20

, were this

32:22

weekend and time right now with such dramatic

32:25

is trust and at

32:28

small easy free thing

32:30

that hundred dead in evils

32:32

have

32:33

dreary become the leader of that he wanted

32:35

to be in the snow meant that was

32:38

that was really hard

32:40

in a minute we visit jennifer naomi

32:42

classrooms and hear what it sounds

32:45

like to practice the making

32:47

people laugh on the show

32:49

today humorous

32:51

you're listening to the ted radio our from npr

32:54

stay with us

33:14

they pretend radio our from npr

33:16

i'm a new summer odie on

33:18

the show today humorous

33:20

we , just hearing from naomi bad

33:23

donors and jennifer ocker their

33:25

authors of the book humor seriously

33:28

and they teach a class at stanford business

33:30

school called humor seriousness

33:33

sell this is a picture of me when when

33:36

, the other that role of tiger

33:39

little nicer we

33:43

seek students all the way from understanding

33:45

the behavioral science of humor to

33:48

learning techniques from comedians for finding

33:51

more humor in their lives outside

33:53

, my officer can you drive drive

33:55

second chance to put that in mind

33:57

brew

34:00

iranian jennifer believe humor is a

34:02

teachable skill and something

34:04

that their students need to practice

34:06

in front of their you're

34:08

also taking only an idiot would

34:10

the back i've

34:13

got

34:16

the have could make a confession

34:18

which is that when i was like the heard

34:20

about your class and saw you talk i was like

34:22

who are these loser and be students

34:24

who have to take a class how to be funny

34:27

my i wanna try and understand

34:30

guess , just thought like either you got it on his

34:32

don't talk to me about this

34:34

i would first and foremost like

34:36

they they are mb students are

34:38

so funny and so cool

34:41

not losers at all night noted

34:43

they are you know a lot of our students experience

34:45

what i personally did as well which

34:47

is that we go to work

34:50

and then we bifurcate our lives

34:52

we think we have to be a certain

34:54

version of ourselves at work to be

34:56

seen as professional and successful

34:59

and we have to be serious all the time to be taken

35:01

seriously especially when we're junior and our careers

35:04

and we start to feel like we're leading

35:06

a double life the

35:10

report shows people are laughing much more and weekends

35:12

than they are during the week day so

35:14

part of this of this our students tap into something

35:17

that we all want more of how do we

35:19

create environments where joy just

35:21

comes more easily and

35:23

the second thing is helping our students recognize

35:26

that this isn't about

35:28

you being the creator

35:30

of humor it's about cultivating

35:32

environments where humor can come

35:34

from anywhere

35:37

the only bad jonas and jennifer aka

35:39

continue from the had stage the

35:42

year the secret

35:43

don't look for what's funny just

35:45

noticed what's trail

35:47

we are some of you what's true and your own lives

35:50

and here to see a things he heard

35:52

he's working from home i only calm the

35:54

front part of my hair

35:57

i only like my own the there

36:00

i said it so

36:02

it's not about becoming a comedienne

36:04

this is about looking at the world and a different way

36:06

the psychological principal called

36:08

the priming a fact that says in

36:10

essence wi fi in what we choose to look for though

36:14

when we live our lives on the precipice of a smile

36:16

we shift how we interact with the world's and

36:18

in turn how it interacts the

36:21

author about being human that should

36:23

be easy

36:24

because we are here met

36:27

by at work it's often times harder than we think

36:29

in a recent survey people were asked

36:31

what traits inspire trust and a leader

36:34

the topic wanted it's

36:36

like a regular person when

36:39

markets serious and life gets dizzy we become

36:41

transactional and yet these small

36:43

assist or enough to move or some transactional

36:46

to humor

36:48

you know i remember when i started to relax

36:51

at my first job because

36:53

, start to feel more confident in my abilities

36:55

and my superiors been like new

36:58

talk your interesting your kind of funny

37:00

and i was like whoa yeah i i didn't have

37:02

anything to say before cause i'm scared of him do something

37:05

wrong all the time the how much of this

37:07

having humor at the office really

37:09

about when you have power and that you

37:12

feel that your have permission

37:14

be yourself a fan yes

37:17

definitely find that as you

37:19

increase in power and status

37:21

in oregon as a sense you do have

37:23

more flexibility and using it

37:25

self deprecating humor is really interesting because

37:28

it's one of them the thing that if you use

37:30

it at lower levels of status it

37:32

can actually be

37:33

mine and you ran in ways that are many

37:35

more insecure whereas if

37:38

you have higher status people

37:40

it's for do you greater confidence

37:42

competence and you see more human

37:44

rights as one thing to note i'll give

37:46

one quick example man please yeah

37:49

pretty early in my career i was

37:51

the fella hitting a team dynamics workshop for

37:53

this executive seems and most

37:55

of the people the room where fifteen to

37:57

twenty years my senior and

38:00

most of them were men though

38:03

here i am this sort of young woman

38:05

i've got my hair and a high been to try and look older

38:07

i'm like wearing my best mad men outset

38:09

in my mid twenties and them

38:11

i have prepped so hard for this the

38:16

most senior person in the room was a guy named craig

38:19

craig was sponsoring

38:21

all set he had his hands behind

38:23

his head he was

38:25

dissing needs to just wasn't really

38:28

in it and so in the middle

38:30

of my session my session like

38:32

liquid then sentence quite

38:35

caught me off and he said

38:38

can you just cut the part where you teach

38:40

me how to make my teams do exactly what

38:42

i want the

38:44

room defend

38:47

everyone looked at me

38:50

to see what i would do and without thinking

38:53

i said playfully shot back at

38:55

a great question crag you're actually thinking

38:57

of the workshop that i run on mind control

38:59

and that one's the definitely assess as if you're welcome

39:01

to join our and i did

39:04

not mean to say that the an improv on the

39:06

side i thought i was gonna lose my job

39:08

the bigwigs by the exact

39:10

opposite happened the room erupted

39:13

in laughter and then ever turn back the crag

39:15

to see what he's gonna do crag

39:18

, took his hands from behind

39:20

his head behind his smiling for the first

39:22

time all and he said word

39:24

for word i kid you not iris

39:26

you you can continue either

39:30

thank you i was planning on it they went on it would be incredible

39:32

moment and by the way crag ended up

39:35

becoming a real advocate of me half

39:37

but it was this moment of i'm

39:39

obsessed matching really yes

39:42

what i did was a really sharp sniper

39:44

comments and that especially

39:46

the lower status person in the room what's going

39:48

again use that might be get also speaks to the

39:50

point of knowing whether you need a power

39:52

move or a moment of connection or a

39:54

moment of creativity or a moment of resilience

39:58

okay but there are risks

40:00

though right i mean a sharp comment like

40:02

that it could fall flat or

40:04

at the very worst he could offend someone would

40:06

then yeah so i think there's a

40:08

really important distinction here they're different

40:11

types of failure we think

40:13

that think that fail is

40:14

we don't get a last actually there's

40:16

some awesome research to show that as long

40:18

as our humorous still approach the

40:21

little still increase people's perceptions of our confidence

40:23

and have no meaningful impact on competence

40:25

or status so sailing

40:27

and getting credits is actually not as bad

40:30

as we think often the best thing to

40:32

do is to just name it

40:34

just recognizing that

40:36

joke failed shows confidence

40:38

and will often get a laugh of recognition

40:42

now if you fail and you a phone someone

40:44

was obviously a very different thing

40:47

but i think this doesn't have to be overcomplicated

40:49

the real thing to know as a humor

40:52

fail is an empathy fail and

40:54

so understand why did you miss

40:56

especially if you offended someone what did you miss

40:58

and what can you learn from it and

41:00

then step three make it right

41:03

however i wonder if you feel that humor

41:05

has changed a lot over the few years

41:07

and what's funny to one generation

41:10

or group of people is not

41:12

to another it's enough to

41:14

scare a lot of folks ensue not

41:17

venturing to make any jokes at all yes

41:20

, true for you know that ideas

41:23

like what is the just you know how close

41:25

are you to the thing you're making

41:27

hi not so instead

41:29

of asking

41:30

how am i seeing the next

41:32

thing in order to be funny ask

41:34

yourself what is needed in that moment

41:36

is it to fusion attention etc humor

41:39

is one of the past

41:40

if you don't to arrogance because

41:42

if anchored an audience

41:45

and reading around it has the

41:47

opportunity to uplift you need

41:49

to take that perspective going perspective

41:51

the i think some people listening will feel

41:54

that they do all this intuitively

41:57

and maybe other folks i'm sure are listening

41:59

very close the your ted

42:01

what i want to know like what about your students what

42:03

is the hardest part of this class would you say

42:06

for them source so as

42:08

students final project is a signature

42:11

story from their life and

42:13

it should be story that's meaningful infused

42:15

with levity and inevitably

42:18

when they bring in their draft they are all

42:21

just funny stories from

42:23

their life

42:23

that don't have any meaning money

42:27

does that mean

42:29

and i'm twenty three years into serving a lifetime

42:31

ban

42:32

the carroll county public library labor

42:36

unions drastically read them were like what like what our

42:38

precepts throw them all away

42:41

the moment in your life that are important

42:44

that are mean

42:45

for the shaped you and

42:47

then infuse lather

42:49

into those stories that

42:51

understand my son's yep them scheme that i

42:53

grew up in a foster family with ninety

42:55

seven

42:57

so my family had to get really creative with childcare

43:00

landing wrote fast

43:02

the last four years old my mother and roll be a

43:04

teacher at the library

43:06

the only problem was that a strict age limit

43:08

of six and older and knows

43:12

librarians were on to meet in

43:16

my reading circle i

43:18

was the smallest horse

43:20

behave

43:21

the most conspicuously the winter

43:23

it's out in the room

43:27

looking at his difficult moments from

43:29

our lives and choosing to have

43:31

them be comedies it

43:33

is a really hard thing to do

43:35

so and it's a muscle that we work

43:39

the my good side by side continue to live as

43:41

oldest version of someone my age

43:45

i'm twenty seven years old now you

43:48

haven't noticed rock and a dead

43:50

body

43:54

enterprise money to front of my company

43:56

some retiring oh that's right people

43:59

by job literally to take

44:01

out that the

44:03

you know any old business owners of

44:05

of collection of , to meet

44:08

them anywhere are

44:11

life is just are numbered stories

44:14

and we have more agency than we think

44:17

choose the genre of

44:20

course that's not always possible and

44:22

sometimes it's absolutely impossible

44:25

but i think that's that's part of the mission

44:27

that were on as to recognize that

44:29

we have more agency about the stories

44:31

the crate and our lives and the stories about

44:34

ourselves

44:36

that was naomi back donors and jennifer ocker

44:39

their book is humor seriously

44:41

you can watch their full talk at ted

44:43

dot com

44:45

on the show today humorous

44:49

and i promise this is the last year i'm

44:51

gonna make what do rocket

44:53

science and stand up comedy

44:55

have in common our

44:58

next speaker asher patel cause

45:01

it applies the scientific method to

45:03

stand up and use humor

45:05

the teach your see is on the ten

45:07

states and only

45:11

i write so about science and

45:13

i've been doing comedy for a while and i realized

45:16

then of comedy actually has a lot of

45:18

qualities that can make plans more approachable

45:20

for people who think it's boring or don't

45:22

care how , i know this

45:25

well actually analyzed

45:27

over five hundred of the joke and

45:31

it took a long time i

45:33

had one volunteer helper and bless

45:35

his soul because not all

45:37

my performances were went to hers and

45:40

even i cringe that them

45:42

one of the things that i measured was

45:44

how long apprentice talk to take

45:47

and then how many seconds of lasker it produced

45:49

i did this to figure out what kind of impact

45:52

the job had on the audio i

45:54

offer categorized my jokes as

45:56

science or not science and

45:58

it turns out that only a quarter of my jokes

46:01

or science joe this

46:03

small percentage actually had the biggest

46:05

impact that of all of my jokes if

46:08

you look at my jokes overall my

46:10

science jobs actually perform forty percent

46:12

better than mine on sign though

46:16

i wanted to know why why

46:19

did the audience response so much

46:21

to my a joke the

46:23

my experience people aren't really

46:25

that ensues the here science jokes and are about

46:28

to have a night on the town i

46:30

remember one time i was in this obscure

46:32

jag that was at a seafood restaurant

46:35

turned comedy club and people

46:37

were so rowdy cause it was their

46:39

friday night as i went

46:41

up there and i said as surely as

46:43

i could that science

46:49

there are this one guy in the front row

46:51

who said you look like

46:54

a crowd that like size

46:57

like why did i kept myself

46:59

into whole set

47:02

during the daytime actually worked as worked as

47:04

writer at nasa so i saw

47:06

this and i took the challenge

47:09

okay fair idea why you

47:11

don't like signs that can be overwhelming

47:14

and you don't know what is true but

47:16

myself as myself as fighters to help distinguish

47:19

the difference between facts vs net that

47:23

you can get chlamydia if a koala

47:25

scratches they're

47:28

your wife or bolivia of

47:37

man or a cloth and too hard this

47:41

is actually my not successful the

47:44

job it

47:46

has a short products and it produces about

47:48

southern half seconds of laughter on

47:51

average i want

47:53

to sneak attack the audience

47:55

with fire if i can you call

47:57

me to draw you and then applied

47:59

and buying factor too i

48:02

know what you're thinking people want to

48:04

go to a comedy club not a lecture

48:06

i actually think

48:08

the emphasis of truth in my jokes

48:11

actually makes my comedy more special and

48:13

memorable and i think it's because science

48:15

and calm your kind of an odd couple right weeds

48:19

roster scientists pew

48:21

research center did a survey that said public

48:23

confidence in fines as is is

48:25

actually high compared to other group and

48:28

then on the other hand you have comedian who

48:31

are known for stretching the truth to get alex

48:34

think about rodney dangerfield now

48:36

when you combine these two things so i think

48:39

actually have a lot of traces that can help

48:41

each other out science is about the

48:43

discovery of truth and my calm

48:45

the is about communicating that's really

48:47

while entertain i

48:49

read about a recent research project

48:52

where the students actually created a condom

48:54

that detected std that's

48:56

the coated with antibody so when it comes into

48:58

contact with an std actually glows

49:01

a different color

49:04

there was a green and my see herpes

49:08

yeah well in my see chlamydia is

49:10

it's blew it might be on too

49:12

tight

49:16

well as many people google about premise

49:20

and then come up to me afterwards and

49:22

say casa your joke

49:24

was corrects

49:27

if i can entertain and inform

49:29

you that great

49:31

why if i can motivate you to

49:33

look up something that i said later

49:35

i feel like that's a win for the science

49:37

field

49:42

when i saw people my charts in my excel

49:44

sheet people say oh you're doing the

49:47

science of science comedy

49:49

and even i'm not a practicing scientists

49:51

i realize that i am using

49:53

a lot of a critical thinking skills that i used

49:55

when i was a chemistry through finding

49:58

a way to combine

50:00

you're passing can lead to a

50:02

unique path and help you find the most

50:04

authentic version of yourself i

50:06

combine science and comedies

50:09

and found my preferred method of science

50:11

communication and how i can be assigned

50:13

comedian

50:14

find your eyes thank you

50:18

that was science writer and stand up comedian

50:20

the pasha patel you can find her

50:22

full talk at ted dot com

50:27

thank you so much for humor as with this

50:29

humorist show this week

50:31

this episode was produced by katy mentally

50:33

own seems delicacy matthew crude

50:36

yates and fiona gear and it

50:38

was edited by rachel faulkner katie cinnamon

50:40

and me or ted radio production staff

50:43

also includes ramallah would be the motor

50:45

some and catherine seiser they

50:47

see me as it was written by rom seen bluey

50:50

our partners had our chris anderson

50:52

how and homes in a few and michelle

50:55

quinn see any case and danielle

50:57

a bell or rasoul i'm a new system

50:59

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