0:00

This message comes from NPR sponsor

0:02

Spectrum Business, who understands that

0:04

small businesses are the heartbeat of our communities.

0:07

That's why they're committed to delivering reliable

0:09

internet, business phone, and mobile services

0:11

for less. Learn more at spectrum.com

0:14

slash business.

0:15

This is the

0:18

TED Radio Hour. Each

0:20

week, groundbreaking TED Talks.

0:22

Our job now is to dream big. Delivered at TED

0:24

conferences. To bring about the future we

0:27

want to see. Around the world. To understand

0:29

who we are. From those talks, we

0:32

bring you speakers and ideas

0:34

that will surprise you.

0:35

You just don't know what you're going to find. Challenge

0:38

you. We truly have to ask ourselves, like, why is

0:40

it noteworthy? And even change you. I literally

0:42

feel like I'm a different person. Yes. Do

0:45

you feel that way? Ideas worth

0:47

spreading. From TED

0:49

and NPR,

0:53

I'm Manoush Zomorodi. In 2004,

0:57

I was newly a single mom

0:59

trying to raise four children. This

1:01

is Sheena Mead. Sheena was living

1:04

in Florida, and life was

1:06

hectic. We had just moved into

1:09

a new

1:09

home.

1:11

I was on Section 8 and just trying to get myself together.

1:15

My children at that time were all

1:17

under the age of seven.

1:20

I was on government assistance,

1:22

and I was just trying to make ends meet. Sheena

1:26

remembers an afternoon that started off like any

1:28

other. Her kids were playing, running around.

1:31

There were cartoons blaring in the background.

1:35

And there was two

1:36

knocks at the door, and

1:38

it was a police officer with another police

1:40

officer. And so the kids were like, mom,

1:42

and the police had the door. I'm like, OK. So I'm looking

1:44

at them confused, and I'm like, they're

1:46

like, are you Sheena? And I'm like,

1:48

yes. Because I didn't have anything

1:50

to be worried about. I didn't think. I

1:52

kind of was hesitant, but I was just like, they're probably

1:55

at the wrong door. So what did they tell you? And

1:57

they're like, we're serving you in a warrant for a worthless

1:59

check.

2:01

You know, basically, like you pass a check

2:03

that got returned with no funds

2:06

and the company

2:09

decided to prosecute. And

2:11

so that check was for $87.26, a check that I had at that time written

2:13

for groceries for

2:17

my children.

2:18

You know, at this time, this is when people were

2:21

writing checks. My paycheck comes

2:23

in on Friday. I'm going to write the

2:25

check on a Wednesday. It takes a day to get the check

2:27

from the grocery store until the check gets there.

2:30

You know, I was trying to calculate and thinking

2:32

that it'll be OK. And it wasn't. I

2:35

mean, honestly, I don't think I realized that you could

2:37

be arrested for bouncing

2:40

a check. I guess I knew it was illegal,

2:42

but that the police would show up and

2:44

put you in handcuffs. They put you in handcuffs,

2:46

right? Yes. And this is

2:48

how green I am. You know, I'm

2:50

like, so let me go find

2:53

somebody to get the children. They're like, we don't have time for that. I'm

2:56

like, well, can you meet me around the corner so you can't arrest

2:58

me in front of the children?

2:59

I got arrested. I went to jail

3:01

that day in front of my children.

3:04

Here's Sheena Mead on the TED stage.

3:08

Luckily, I was able to come home pretty quickly because

3:10

it was my first defense. And I promised

3:12

the first thing I did when I got home, I

3:14

borrowed some money so I could pay that check

3:17

back. And then I had to borrow some more money

3:19

to pay back the fees for getting arrested and going

3:21

to jail because, of course, I was loading

3:23

the cash because I was a young mom with four

3:26

kids bouncing $87 checks.

3:29

And I just knew that

3:31

chapter of my life was closed,

3:34

except it wasn't because see that arrest

3:36

and that conviction, it remained on my record. And

3:39

at that moment, I realized that my true

3:42

sentence had just begun because you know what,

3:44

I was no longer allowed to volunteer

3:46

at my children's school. I can no longer rent

3:48

where I want to rent because it is legal

3:52

for landlords to discriminate against a person

3:54

with a record. I even face barriers

3:56

trying to go to college and

3:59

still. Until this day, I am

4:02

excluded from certain certifications

4:04

and occupational license. All

4:06

I could keep asking myself was,

4:09

damn, where would my

4:11

sentence end?

4:14

So even if you've paid the

4:16

money, you've paid the bill, you've done your time,

4:19

it still sticks with you. Yes,

4:21

they tried to define you

4:23

by your record and not who you are, yes.

4:26

Let me tell you, so we were taking a field

4:28

trip to SeaWorld, and in order

4:30

for me to go on the field trip,

4:33

I had to go online to fill out

4:35

a chaperone application. And

4:38

in part of that application, it asked me, have

4:40

you ever been arrested? And when

4:42

I went to go to apply for

4:44

school, I had to check the box just

4:47

to get my higher education. Seeking employment,

4:49

people maybe not want to employ you because

4:52

of the arrest, and then there's being able to rent

4:54

a home in other communities.

4:56

So I have to mark off that I've been arrested.

4:59

So faced with all those limitations,

5:02

Sheena found workarounds. I

5:04

worked in places where the box

5:06

was banned. I worked for the labor movement.

5:08

I worked in more progressive organizations.

5:10

I did a lot of community organizing.

5:11

I lived in places where I

5:14

was very upfront with the

5:16

landlord. I didn't live in apartments because I

5:18

knew that's where it gets flagged. But then

5:20

it was just a few years ago where I went

5:23

to go try to get a rental place, and

5:26

we got denied. It was like, when would

5:28

I ever be

5:29

free? It's the question.

5:32

Sheena Mead made a mistake, one

5:34

that's cast a shadow over her entire

5:36

life. And every day,

5:39

we hear about struggles people need

5:41

to overcome, problems that we

5:43

all need to live with or work

5:45

around. But what if there actually

5:48

is a fix? Today

5:50

on the show, simple yet

5:53

audacious solutions. Three

5:55

TED speakers combining their frontline

5:58

experience with lots of money. of data

6:01

and a little common sense to make

6:03

laws more effective, care

6:05

better for foster children and hold

6:07

environmental offenders accountable.

6:10

So back to Sheena Mead. For

6:12

a long time, money was tight. She

6:15

had trouble clearing other checks. But

6:17

she managed to turn things around. She

6:20

raised her kids, got a degree and

6:22

worked her way up the ladder at nonprofits.

6:25

And then she learned about something called a

6:28

clean slate law. I

6:30

truly believe that America is a nation

6:33

of second chances. And I say that because

6:35

just about every state has laws on a book

6:37

to allow a person to get their record cleared once

6:40

they're eligible.

6:41

And right now there are more than 30 million

6:45

people who are eligible to get their record

6:47

cleared. But this is where

6:49

it gets a little crazy. Just 10%

6:52

of those people actually get it done.

6:56

They don't know about it. Or if they do, the

6:58

process is so bureaucratic, costly

7:01

and full of red tape. For instance,

7:03

in some states, people have to wait

7:06

just about five to 10 years just to even qualify

7:09

to get their record cleared. Then

7:11

you have to appear in person to petition.

7:14

That means you need to take time off work and

7:17

let's keep it real. It was hard enough

7:19

to find a job in the first place. You

7:21

have to file a mountain of paperwork and

7:23

then sometimes you have to pay processing fees up

7:25

to $500 per charge. So

7:29

that means if your crime was being poured

7:31

like mine,

7:32

record clearance is not even accessible. So

7:37

almost every state has a law on

7:40

the books that would allow people

7:42

to get their record cleared once

7:44

they're eligible. Can you explain who

7:47

is eligible and what is that process?

7:49

Yes. So it's not just a cookie cutter policy

7:52

that every state has the same policy.

7:54

Some are very much more restrictive. Some

7:56

are much more quick to the point

7:59

once you've been...

7:59

and free for a certain amount of time for certain offenses.

8:02

You're already eligible. But the burden's on

8:04

the person. They have to go initiate it. You

8:06

have to know when that clock hits, then

8:09

you have to go file a petition. Then you

8:11

may have to pay the fees that's associated with filing a

8:13

petition. Then you have to wait for sign

8:15

off. It could be backlogs. And then you

8:17

may be able to get it sealed or expunged

8:20

or cleared. And now you

8:22

are actually the CEO of a group

8:24

called the Clean Slate Initiative that

8:27

is trying to help people who are eligible to do

8:29

all that. In part, though, by changing

8:31

the law state by state. Tell me more

8:34

about exactly what you're doing. Yeah, so

8:36

with the Clean Slate Initiative, what we're trying to do is just cut

8:38

through all that red tape

8:40

that the burden is no longer on the

8:42

person. The burden is

8:44

on the government to say, look, you said that we're eligible

8:47

to get our record cleared for certain types of offenses

8:49

once we're crime-free for a certain amount of time. When

8:52

that time comes up,

8:53

we're asking you to just automatically clear

8:55

that record. You have 30 million

8:58

people that's eligible right now to get the record cleared. But

9:00

again, how do you scale that passing

9:02

Clean Slate automation?

9:04

If we're truly a nation of second chances, we

9:06

don't need to put barriers

9:08

in to get people reinterrated

9:11

into society.

9:12

How many people have had their records

9:15

cleared by a law in

9:17

their own state? In April,

9:20

Michigan went into implementation

9:23

where they started to clear records

9:25

since they're passing the Clean Slate.

9:27

Over a million people got their records cleared. And

9:30

we have assisted in three million people

9:32

having their records cleared so far. So your

9:34

organization has helped pass Clean

9:36

Slate laws in six states.

9:39

I mean, how hard was it to do? Or is

9:41

this something that people on

9:43

both sides of the aisle understand is

9:46

good because it means more people can go

9:48

on with their lives, they can get jobs, they won't

9:50

be homeless? Yes, so we have helped

9:53

six states pass Clean Slate laws, and there

9:55

are 10 states that have enacted Clean Slate

9:57

policies

9:57

across the country. states,

10:00

they're not even moving this legislation as

10:02

a criminal justice issue. More so like

10:04

a workforce issue because people

10:06

cannot get back to work if a record

10:08

is holding them back. And we have a lot of employers

10:10

and a lot of businesses that are coming into

10:13

the fold saying, how do we

10:15

create a pathway for people to come back into the workforce?

10:18

When we think about one in three people who

10:20

have been arrested or convicted of

10:23

an offense, that means a lot of

10:25

us know someone who's been impacted.

10:28

I do want to ask you, are there people

10:31

who think, you know, tough

10:33

luck, you made a mistake, you got to live

10:35

with it? Or do you find that people

10:38

are pretty sympathetic or

10:40

on board with the Clean Slate Initiative?

10:42

Yeah, you know, I tell them, like, yes,

10:45

I made a decision and I

10:47

did the time that the law says I needed to do. I

10:50

should, that should not

10:52

define me for the rest of my life.

10:54

If the law is saying that this

10:56

should no longer be a barrier, then we need to

10:58

make sure that it's not. Our

11:00

plan is to be able to go into states to

11:03

get them all on the pathway to Clean Slate Automation.

11:06

All of them? All of them. Over

11:08

the next six years. We're looking to be able to get

11:11

over 14 million people having their

11:13

records automatically cleared

11:15

and get all 50 states on a pathway

11:17

to automation. I

11:19

mean, it's pretty historic what

11:21

you and the Clean Slate Initiative want.

11:24

I mean, it's about changing the way we

11:26

here in the United States think of punishment

11:29

and crime.

11:31

Is it radical to you, too? Do

11:33

I think that this is radical? I think

11:35

it's just common sense. I think that

11:37

when you talk to people, it's just common sense. And like

11:39

when we talk about redemption,

11:41

second chances, forgiveness, I think most

11:44

folks, when you have a conversation with folks and

11:46

you bring the human element to it, folks are in agreement.

11:49

We all have been given a second chance. And

11:51

I think for most of us, we all have asked

11:53

for a second chance, whether it was from our parents,

11:56

our teachers, our spouses,

11:58

our loved ones, even our kids. our

12:00

communities.

12:01

And so

12:03

we talk about second chances, we talk about reentry,

12:06

but yet we set up all this red tape and we

12:08

gotta cut the red tape.

12:10

If you could talk to her again, what would

12:12

you tell your 20-something self after

12:15

she got arrested? You know,

12:17

there's a lot of things I could say to the 20-something

12:19

year old Sheena. I'm telling you, a lot of things.

12:22

A lot of things she should have done, you know. But

12:25

that public pain that I had that

12:27

day getting arrested in front of my neighbors, in front of my

12:29

children, that made

12:31

public record, it's gonna

12:34

be turned into a passion

12:36

that's gonna fuel my purpose to help

12:39

millions of people

12:40

across the country to

12:42

realize that they are gonna be able

12:44

to have a second chance and that

12:47

this thing's gonna turn around. She

12:49

probably won't believe me. She'd be like, yeah, okay. But

12:51

I would just tell her to just keep persevering,

12:54

keep pushing.

12:57

That's Sheena Mead, CEO of

12:59

the Clean Slate Initiative. You

13:01

can see her full talk at TED.com.

13:04

And by the way, the latest state to pass

13:06

a clean slate law is New York.

13:09

On the show today, Audacious

13:11

Solutions. I'm Manoush Zomorodi

13:14

and you're listening to the TED Radio Hour from

13:16

NPR. Stay with us.

13:26

This message comes from Apple Card. Reboot

13:28

your credit card with Apple Card. It gives

13:31

you unlimited daily cash back that you can

13:33

now choose to grow in a high yield savings

13:35

account that's built right into the Wallet

13:37

app. Apply for Apple Card now in

13:39

the Wallet app on iPhone. Apple

13:42

Card subject to credit approval. Savings

13:44

is available to Apple Card owners subject

13:47

to eligibility requirements. Savings

13:49

accounts provided by Goldman Sachs Bank USA.

13:52

Member FDIC. Terms apply.

13:54

This message comes from NPR

13:56

sponsor BetterHelp. Imagine you're

13:58

looking at a scale with everything. you do for

14:00

other people on one side and everything

14:02

you do for yourself on the other side. If

14:05

the scale isn't balanced, maybe it's

14:07

time to spend a little more time on you.

14:09

And therapy is a great way to guarantee

14:12

that you make that time for yourself. BetterHelp

14:14

connects you with a licensed therapist online

14:17

who can help you find more balance and

14:19

stick to it. Visit betterhelp.com

14:21

slash NPR today to get 10%

14:24

off your first month.

14:31

This message comes from NPR sponsor,

14:33

Westfield Bank, offering customized

14:35

solutions to empower businesses, agencies,

14:38

and investment advisory firms. Partner

14:40

with a bank that's invested in your success. Visit

14:43

westfield-bank.com slash

14:45

financial-freedom. Friends,

14:49

before we get back to the show, I want to let you

14:51

know about TED Radio Hour Plus.

14:54

When you become a Plus listener, you get

14:56

bonus episodes made just

14:58

for you, with more ideas from

15:00

TED speakers, and you'll go behind

15:03

the scenes with our producers. What

15:05

you won't get, though, are those sponsor messages

15:07

interrupting the show. And

15:09

that's because you are directly supporting

15:12

our work at NPR. So if

15:14

you'd like to show your support, learn more

15:16

and subscribe at plus.npr.org

15:19

slash

15:19

TED or

15:22

right in the Apple Podcasts app.

15:25

It's

15:28

the TED Radio Hour from NPR. I'm

15:30

Manoush Zomorodi. On the show

15:32

today, audacious solutions,

15:35

bold ideas to solve some

15:37

of today's most complex problems.

15:41

And our next speaker knows his issue

15:43

intimately. It's the foster care

15:45

system in the U.S. A

15:47

note before we begin. We briefly discuss

15:50

child abuse and trauma.

15:51

You know, all my life I was always

15:54

told that, you know, there's no

15:56

placement for me. There's no family members you can live

15:58

with.

15:59

Sixto Cancel doesn't remember a time

16:02

when his family all lived together.

16:05

Foster care for me started as an 11-month-old

16:07

baby. My mother struggled with

16:09

substance abuse and poverty-related issues,

16:12

and I was placed in the system.

16:15

My mother had eight children, including

16:17

me. My other brother

16:19

and sisters, they all ended up in different

16:21

families.

16:22

Sixto was in and out of

16:24

different homes. When he was nine,

16:26

he was placed with a foster mother who ended

16:29

up adopting him.

16:30

I remember being nine years old and

16:33

being at the courthouse, and the judge asking

16:35

me if I wanted to be adopted. And

16:38

in that moment, I knew that the answer that

16:40

I was supposed to say out loud was

16:42

yes. But in my head, I had always been

16:44

a foster kid. You know, from

16:46

being a baby and being grown up in the system,

16:48

I didn't even have an idea of what it truly

16:50

meant to say, well, here's now

16:53

your new forever family.

16:54

But I said yes,

16:56

and at that point is

16:58

when I started to experience more and more of the

17:00

abuse. Until I was 13, I

17:02

then ended up couchsurfing because

17:05

the abuse was so severe.

17:06

So did you leave your family? Did

17:09

you run away? There were

17:11

times where I would just be locked out of the

17:13

house for weeks at a time, and so that's how the couchsurfing

17:16

started. So I had to find a place to

17:18

go while I was being locked out, and

17:20

that was like her beginning forms of punishment.

17:23

And so I just kept calling the child welfare system,

17:25

asking them to take me back. But unfortunately,

17:28

they kept saying that what I was saying wasn't

17:30

substantiated, which means that we didn't

17:33

have enough evidence for them to realize that I was

17:35

telling the truth about what was happening. Wait,

17:37

so you're a preteen and you're calling

17:40

and saying, I'm in a terrible situation,

17:42

and that wasn't

17:44

good enough, the fact that you were calling yourself

17:47

to advocate for yourself? Not

17:49

only was I calling, but my school system was

17:51

calling, my dance teacher and

17:53

after-school programs were calling. I mean,

17:56

there were several open and closed investigations.

17:58

She would tell the police, or she would tell the police.

17:59

would tell the investigator that I was just acting

18:02

up, that it literally took me having

18:04

to tape a recorder to my chest

18:06

with clear tape and start documenting

18:09

what I was going through. And that's when I

18:11

had enough evidence to start saying, hey, here's

18:14

what's actually happening to me.

18:16

Zixto's teenage years were even more

18:18

chaotic. At one point, he

18:20

was in touch with his siblings and they

18:23

came up with a plan to live together.

18:25

My older brother, we

18:27

had met when I was 14 and

18:30

he was saving money so that he can get an apartment

18:32

to get me and my other brother

18:34

out of foster care. I see. And unfortunately,

18:37

one day, he was killed

18:40

due to gun violence. Oh gosh. And

18:42

so that was the day where all

18:44

hope of family kind of died for me.

18:47

Here's Zixto cancel on the TED

18:49

stage. Even

18:51

without abuse, foster care

18:53

is a tough experience. You don't

18:56

know what's actually going to happen to you. You're

18:58

placed with a stranger and you're expected to become

19:01

family. But if you don't fit in,

19:03

if you act up a little bit too much, you

19:05

will find yourself in a new home with

19:07

new school, new rules, new everything.

19:11

When I was placed back in foster care at 15, I

19:14

thought that that was the end of my storm. But

19:16

it was just the beginning of the next storm.

19:19

Went to a few different homes. But unlike

19:22

many, I was placed in a nonprofit

19:24

program where I got ready to live on my

19:26

own.

19:28

The foster care system is not doing a good

19:30

job of raising children.

19:32

Unsupported foster youth are two to

19:34

three times more likely to have negative

19:37

outcomes related to homelessness,

19:39

incarceration,

19:41

being sexually trafficked.

19:44

The mental tone is severe. Foster

19:49

youth are two times more likely

19:51

than war veterans to experience and

19:53

suffer from PTSD.

19:56

Okay, so obviously these are

19:58

really, really tough. situations,

20:01

stressful situations that these kids are

20:03

put into. How many kids

20:06

are we talking about here? Yeah, sometimes

20:09

people think it's a very small issue in the United

20:11

States because the number of

20:13

kids that are removed from their homes

20:16

for either neglect or abuse is about 400,000 people

20:18

every single year. But

20:21

what most people don't realize is that foster

20:23

care begins with a knock on your door by

20:25

a social worker who comes in and asks

20:28

you a series of questions. And

20:30

they check your cabinets, they check the refrigerator.

20:32

And if you answer those questions incorrectly or

20:35

there's not enough food in those cabinets or refrigerator,

20:37

then

20:37

your child can be removed.

20:39

There are seven million children a

20:42

year that are involved in a child abuse

20:44

report. And so that means about 10%

20:47

of all children in the United States are actually

20:49

being touched by a child welfare system. I

20:52

think it's very hard when you see a child

20:54

who maybe mom is sleeping in the car and you're

20:57

trying to get that third grader to school. And

21:00

what do you do in that situation when our current

21:02

other systems have failed? When

21:05

you look at the housing programs across the country,

21:07

sometimes there's too much of a waiting list. Shelters

21:10

sometimes are packed out. And so what

21:12

has happened is that when we don't have interventions

21:15

for certain situations, then

21:17

we default to the child welfare system to intervene.

21:21

And so that's why child

21:22

welfare has become one of the big responders

21:24

to what I see as a lot of poverty issues.

21:31

I do want to get back to you and

21:33

the

21:34

wonderful part of your story. Let's

21:37

go to you in college when you came up

21:39

with the idea for your organization, Think

21:41

of Us.

21:44

What were

21:44

you thinking? Were you like, okay, you know

21:46

what? I am exactly the

21:48

right person to switch things

21:51

up here.

21:52

So when I was in college,

21:54

I didn't think that I was like the perfect person to

21:56

like start an organization and then run with it. I

21:59

kept bringing this idea.

21:59

of how young

22:02

people can have voice and choice and

22:04

what's happening to them in foster care. How

22:06

can they do some goal settings to kind of make

22:08

sure that they transition into adulthood with the supports

22:10

that they need.

22:12

And what I realized is that, oh,

22:14

the system is

22:15

much more flawed by design. This

22:18

is why I started Think of Us. Because

22:21

this is the current result of the foster care system.

22:24

It's designed wrong. I

22:26

wanna give you an example. We

22:29

overwhelmingly heard from teenage foster youth

22:32

that they were being misplaced in group homes.

22:35

The system was acting like they have nowhere to place

22:37

these children, turned around,

22:40

we sent our researchers out. And

22:43

what they were able to reveal was

22:45

that the majority of those children actually

22:47

had extended family members that they could have

22:50

lived with. So you've

22:52

explained why kids are usually

22:54

separated from their families. But

22:57

what is it that you are re-imagining?

22:58

Yeah, so imagine this. Imagine

23:01

that, unfortunately, you have to come into foster

23:03

care. But instead of immediately

23:05

being placed with a foster parent, imagine

23:08

that your worker is pulling up

23:10

social media and looking through the adults

23:12

who are in your life and saying, which one of these adults

23:14

do you want us to explore you living

23:16

with? Which one of these are your uncle,

23:19

cousin, grandparents? And

23:21

being able to call those folks and say, you know what, on

23:23

day one, I'm gonna place you with

23:26

family members that you already know.

23:29

Six-Dope calls this approach Kinship

23:31

Care. Kinship Care is

23:33

when a child goes ahead and is able

23:35

to live with an extended family member or

23:38

an adult that they have already known.

23:41

An adult who loves them.

23:43

That adult can be a church member, a close

23:46

family friend.

23:47

And what we now know is

23:49

that research is showing that

23:51

when children are placed with kin, they

23:54

fear way better from mental

23:56

health to stability to graduating

23:58

high school on time.

24:00

And yet, only 35% of

24:03

young people in the foster care system are actually

24:05

placed with kin. But it doesn't have to

24:07

be this way.

24:09

In one state, in partnership,

24:12

right, we went in and we implemented some

24:14

simple solutions, like,

24:16

let's ask young people which adults

24:19

in their family they should live with. I

24:23

wish I told you something better. That

24:25

is one solution. We

24:29

went ahead and, like, required social workers

24:31

to get extra approvals if they're going to place

24:33

you outside of kin.

24:36

The result? The initial placement

24:38

with young people in the foster care system

24:42

in a situation where they were living with kin rose

24:44

from 3% to over 40% in just

24:45

two years. In

24:55

another state, we looked at a county. They

24:58

were able to figure out how to place over 80%

25:01

of those children with kin.

25:03

So the idea that young

25:05

people don't have adults in their life who can step up

25:08

is not true.

25:11

Every single year, hundreds of thousands

25:13

of children are entering the foster care system and

25:17

they're not being placed with family.

25:19

The system spends over $30 billion on

25:21

less than 1 million families a year.

25:27

That is more than enough to make sure

25:29

we find family, we support them, and

25:31

that every child is living in a loving

25:33

family situation.

25:35

Right now, there's a big systems

25:38

change opportunity, a federal decision

25:40

that would make it super easy to have

25:43

people who are related to a child step up and

25:46

say, I'm willing to do this and get that support.

25:49

If approved, we

25:51

would see $3 billion shift

25:54

from traditional foster care to kinship

25:57

care.

25:59

So when we work, on these crazy

26:01

ideas like, let's make kinship care the

26:03

norm. It is actually possible.

26:08

In your talk, you say that you're working on policy

26:10

to make it easier for relatives to

26:13

step up, to be foster parents.

26:15

But what do you mean by that? What makes it easier?

26:18

Like, we're gonna do simple things like help the

26:20

state just ask the young person, who

26:22

are the adults that you know? Then have

26:25

a streamlined process that quickly

26:27

gets that child placed there. Do the background

26:30

check quickly. Turn around and do

26:32

the home study quickly. But maybe we don't

26:34

have to, on day one, start the 10 hours

26:37

of traditional foster parenting classes. Maybe

26:39

the child can be placed there and you do the classes

26:42

while the child's already living with you. So

26:44

we're gonna streamline that process and

26:46

then make sure that all the barriers that are coming

26:49

up are gonna continue to tell Congress, the White House,

26:51

and the federal agencies about

26:52

what are those challenges.

26:56

For now, those challenges mostly remain

26:58

in place. Marquan Teets is a good example

27:00

of just how hard it is to

27:03

place kids with family, even when

27:05

there are loved ones who want to step in.

27:08

We go to the

27:10

front office and we see our great-grandmother. Marquan and

27:12

his brother were in a foster group home when

27:14

they were tracked down by their great-grandmother.

27:17

The moment she sees us, she

27:20

just bursts into tears, like bursts crying. She said, I

27:22

have been looking for you. I've been looking

27:24

for you. But his great-grandmother wasn't

27:26

a government-approved foster parent, so she couldn't

27:28

get government assistance to

27:31

raise them. They ended up back in

27:33

that group home until a couple

27:35

years later when they finally went to live with

27:38

a great aunt who qualified. We

27:40

didn't even

27:41

know we had great-auntees. We just

27:43

found out, and next thing you know, we moved in with

27:45

her, and then she starts

27:47

showing us pictures of our mom, showing us pictures

27:50

of our kids. We

27:52

started having pictures of all of our family that

27:54

we've never met, and we started having the family environment

27:57

again, though.

27:59

that I did get to live with my auntie for all those

28:02

years. It helped me prepare

28:04

though, because while I was there, I

28:06

got to build a savings account.

28:08

So I built my savings account while I was there. I got

28:10

to buy my first vehicle. I bought a truck

28:13

while I was there. I worked. So

28:16

I was able just to get more on my feet.

28:18

And because it was my auntie who actually genuinely

28:21

cared for me and wasn't trying to take nothing from me, I

28:24

got to build a lot better

28:26

than what I would have built if I would have been

28:28

going from house to house

28:29

to house or living with

28:32

complete strangers.

28:35

Now Marquan works at Think of Us with

28:38

Syxdo, who as an adult

28:40

made his own surprising discovery about

28:43

his extended family.

28:44

Just a couple of years ago,

28:46

I was in New York City and I got a

28:48

phone call from my sister that there was a family reunion

28:50

happening. I didn't know them and they

28:53

didn't know me. And when I was

28:55

able to meet them, the biggest shocker

28:57

for me was that I had these four uncles

28:59

and aunts who were foster adoptive

29:01

parents. So here were people

29:03

in my own family who were blood related

29:05

to me, who had been approved by the state

29:08

to not just foster, but to go through the

29:10

full process of actually adopting

29:12

a sibling's aunt.

29:14

And yet here I was for my entire

29:16

life, going from foster home to foster

29:18

home, or at one point being adopted by a very

29:21

abusive parent.

29:22

Did you have this conversation when

29:24

you got to chat with your

29:26

aunts and uncles who you hadn't known?

29:29

Did you talk about this? Honestly, no. I

29:32

think for me, I was just so numb in that moment

29:34

that the number one thing, the

29:36

thing that I did immediately was like pull out my phone,

29:39

GPS to my last foster home, which was 58 miles

29:41

away. And then I just try

29:43

to manage the numbness that came from that

29:45

moment. Because when you've

29:48

spent your whole life with this constant narrative

29:51

of, there's no place for you, there's no family for you,

29:53

we can't place you with anyone.

29:55

And then all of a sudden that gets disrupted. It

29:58

was like hard for me to believe.

29:59

like, wow, I've been lied to my entire

30:02

life. And that's where real grief came in, because

30:05

I've started to grieve what could

30:07

have been. Oh, that just

30:10

feels shameful.

30:13

I think it's the biggest representation of

30:15

how broken and flawed by design

30:17

our system is. The reality

30:20

is we need a system that does protect children,

30:22

but if you're gonna remove a child, how

30:25

do you do your due diligence to make sure that

30:27

children are being placed with family members and

30:29

that we're making sure people are getting the support

30:31

that they need?

30:33

So this kinship care model, what

30:35

do you have to do next to make it sort of

30:37

the default when a child comes

30:39

into the foster care system?

30:41

So number one, what we have right now

30:44

are regulations that would enable states to

30:46

set up their own specific process

30:49

for family members or people that already

30:51

know the child. And as a part of that,

30:53

they would be able to draw down federal dollars.

30:56

This would be historic if these regulations

30:58

passed, because what it will do, it will transfer 3

31:00

billion out of the traditional 11

31:03

billion from traditional

31:05

foster care to kinship care

31:08

over a five-year period. So it's a huge shift.

31:11

So the first thing is to say, for states

31:14

to raise their hand and say, number one, I

31:16

want to go ahead and be a kinship care first system

31:18

and draw down these dollars and make sure

31:21

that my department are structured to find

31:23

family, to make sure that families

31:25

get the same monthly check, the same health

31:27

care for the child that any foster parent

31:30

would get, right? And charge the federal government

31:32

or leverage the federal government's money to be

31:34

able to do that. Number two, people

31:37

are going to have to innovate and think differently about

31:39

how do you do that? Like, what is

31:41

that kin-specific process? And

31:44

so right now, we're working with a group of people

31:46

to do some research around how

31:48

far does that background check need to go? What

31:50

does that house inspection need to do?

31:53

I'm wondering what your skeptics say. Is

31:55

upending this whole way that the

31:57

system that's been in place for decades. Do

32:00

you get people saying, like, all right,

32:02

6-0, that's nice, but I don't know if this is really

32:04

possible. So we

32:06

definitely, this is very ambitious. The

32:08

timeline is extremely ambitious. And so I think

32:10

the most critiques around what we want to accomplish

32:13

is the idea that we can do this type of push

32:15

in five to seven years. However, people

32:18

are starting to believe in kin. 20 years

32:20

ago, it would not have been a conversation

32:23

to say grandma should take her

32:25

grandchildren in, because a lot of people

32:27

would say the apple doesn't fall too far

32:30

from the tree. And the reality is that

32:32

people do say that today, but not at the same rate.

32:34

And that we see

32:35

certain counties in the country that have been

32:37

able to get over 80% of their children placed

32:40

with a family member or someone that that child already

32:43

knew. So we have evidence that

32:45

now it's possible.

32:47

I'll

32:48

say this. I truly believe

32:50

we're at this pivot point. And that if we

32:52

push just a little bit harder in this very

32:54

moment, that we can actually live

32:56

in a new reality where when children

32:59

have to come into the foster care system, that

33:01

the first thing that is looked at is extended

33:04

family, is people that they know. And

33:06

if we are able to achieve that, we will literally

33:09

be able to ensure that millions of

33:11

children will come off of that school bus,

33:14

go into their homes, look at family

33:16

members, people that they know,

33:18

and say, I am loved. Thank

33:21

you. That was Sixto Cancel.

33:23

He's the CEO of the nonprofit

33:25

Think of Us. You can watch his

33:27

full talk at TED.com. On

33:31

the show today, Audacious

33:33

Solutions. I'm Manoush

33:34

Zamarodi, and you're listening to the TED Radio Hour from NPR.

33:38

We'll be right back.

33:52

Thank you.

34:01

This message comes from NPR sponsor,

34:03

Carvana. Carvana has purchased

34:06

over a million vehicles from happy

34:08

customers by giving them an offer within

34:10

minutes. Carvana gives real offers.

34:13

Then they pick up the car and pay you on

34:15

the spot. Visit carvana.com

34:18

or download the app to learn more.

34:21

It's the TED Radio Hour from NPR.

34:24

I'm Manoush Zomorodi. On the

34:26

show today, audacious solutions.

34:29

Inspiring and bold ideas to

34:32

address some of the biggest problems

34:34

of our time. And you can't

34:36

get much bigger than the ocean. Specifically,

34:39

protecting it from damage caused by

34:42

humans.

34:43

I've sailed the seven

34:45

seas, as they say. You know, there's only

34:47

one ocean, but there's seven seas.

34:49

This is Tony Long. For

34:51

decades, he was a member of the British

34:53

Royal Navy. Yeah, I was only 17.

34:56

Joined the Britannia Royal Naval College straight in

34:58

as an officer. His job

35:00

was scouring the ocean, surveying

35:03

via helicopter and radar to keep

35:06

trade routes secure for the UK and

35:08

its allies, safe from pirates

35:10

and criminals, as well as

35:13

to detect and deter illegal fishing.

35:15

What's called maritime domain

35:17

awareness. You want to know what's happening around

35:20

the fleet and beyond

35:22

the horizon. And that way you can give

35:24

the fleet advance notice of what they're approaching.

35:27

But surveying the seas had

35:29

limitations. Let's say you spotted

35:31

a fishing vessel off in the distance.

35:33

Quite often, the fishing fleets of the world,

35:35

they're not really clearly marked. You

35:38

could see they were a fleet from

35:40

a country. You could see

35:42

that they were fishing, but you really couldn't work out

35:44

whether they'd been authorized or not and who'd authorized

35:47

them and what they were actually fishing. It's a real

35:49

challenge.

35:50

Tony spent decades feeling frustrated

35:52

by just how little information he could

35:55

collect and how little he could do

35:57

to stop illegal fishing.

35:59

Sometimes I'd wake up surrounded

36:02

in a fishing fleet that despite having powerful technology

36:04

and my fingertips,

36:06

I didn't really know who they were or what they'd been

36:08

doing. Here's Tony Long on the TED

36:10

stage. It is a Wild West out there,

36:13

and rogue fishes are disobeying the

36:15

laws that we put in place to protect

36:17

our ocean and its resources. And they're

36:20

pillaging colossal

36:23

amounts of fish. One fifth of seafood

36:25

is thought to be caught illegally or

36:28

is simply unreported. And that's a crime worth up

36:30

to $23.5 billion.

36:33

And it's a crime that skews the science.

36:36

So it affects the sustainability of our fisheries,

36:40

it threatens the health of our ocean, and

36:42

the well-being of millions of people, mainly

36:45

in poorer countries. And

36:48

it's not just pirate fishing that's

36:51

threatening the future of our ocean.

36:53

Out at sea, all spills are going undetected and

36:56

therefore unpunished. There's a massive,

36:58

unmonitored growth in shipping, oil and

37:00

gas exploration, and

37:02

agriculture, as I mentioned just a few. And this is piling

37:05

pressure on an ocean that's

37:07

already stressed by climate change. The

37:10

straightforward fact is,

37:13

if you can't see it, you can't manage

37:15

it. And I know from experience, you

37:17

can't monitor the whole ocean from the decks of ships.

37:23

So

37:23

you decide to leave

37:26

the military and you

37:28

decide that it's time for you to take on this problem

37:30

that you had witnessed all those years

37:33

sailing the ocean.

37:34

Yeah, so I left the Navy back

37:36

in 2012. I mean, having been

37:38

in the Navy nearly 30 years, it's actually quite a

37:40

significant choice to leave. I mean, I'd

37:42

loved my career. It's not that I wanted to leave. I

37:45

just felt drawn to

37:48

doing something different. I've learned an

37:50

awful lot in the Navy. I developed as a person.

37:53

And I wanted to take what I've learned and apply

37:55

it in a way that

37:56

I really, really could feel as if I'd

37:59

contributed something.

39:56

just

40:00

trying to skirt certain other

40:03

government's jurisdiction. They're just

40:05

trying to make a living by

40:07

going wherever they need to go.

40:09

Yes, so the high seas

40:12

are the commons. That's everybody's responsibility.

40:14

It's for the common good, and it should really be common

40:17

knowledge about what's happening out on those high seas. But

40:20

the economic zones that countries are responsible

40:22

for are their own jurisdiction, and they

40:24

can put rules in place and

40:26

enforce under their own national

40:29

rules. So you'd get some countries that have

40:31

got quite strong mechanisms

40:33

for implementing regulations and rules,

40:36

but then alongside them they've got countries that

40:38

haven't, and therefore

40:39

the system starts to break up because

40:41

it becomes patchy in response. And

40:44

we needed some kind of global

40:46

system of surveillance, global system of

40:48

enforcement.

40:52

So countries have their own

40:55

ways of regulating their waters and doing

40:57

surveillance. But around 2017,

41:00

several countries decided to make their data

41:02

openly available. And this

41:04

created an opportunity for Tony

41:07

and the organization he now heads, Global

41:09

Fishing Watch.

41:10

Once that proprietary

41:13

information was suddenly in the public,

41:15

it broke a glass ceiling.

41:17

Up there right now there's thousands of satellites

41:20

beaming back an enormous amount of data from

41:23

the remotest parts of our ocean. What

41:26

if we could harness that data, make

41:29

it useful and available to people

41:31

who care about the ocean? Well,

41:35

thanks to rapid advances in technology and AI, we

41:37

can do that. Using

41:39

GPS location data and machine

41:41

learning,

41:42

Global Fishing Watch built the first ever livestream

41:45

map to monitor

41:47

the industrial fishing fleet. At

41:49

the moment we see some 70,000 vessels. We've

41:53

made this information public and

41:55

freely available to the world. But

41:59

technology moves on.

41:59

Thank you. Thank you. Thank

42:02

you. Thank you. Thank

42:04

you. Thank you. Technology moves on

42:06

rapidly. There's new and emerging technology that we need to embrace in order to give

42:08

this picture to everybody who needs it. Today,

42:11

any of you can click on the internet to explore

42:13

roads

42:14

and buildings

42:16

on land. Why can't we do the same for

42:18

the ocean? We need to create a dynamic,

42:22

complete map of all industrial activity

42:24

out at sea and make it available to

42:26

everybody for free.

42:29

We're going to do that using GPS

42:31

location data and

42:34

millions of gigabytes of satellite

42:36

imagery. We'll use AI to map

42:38

and monitor more than a million ocean-going vessels.

42:42

We'll monitor the entire industrial

42:44

fishing fleet and those dark vessels. We'll

42:47

add in hundreds of thousands of cargo

42:49

vessels, tens of thousands of oil

42:51

and gas structures. Conservationists

42:54

will have the information they need to protect

42:56

critical habitats, like National

43:00

Geographic pristine seas. They're

43:02

using our data now to help

43:04

work with governments and communities to protect critical

43:07

habitats

43:08

in seven marine parks with a combined

43:10

area of more than

43:12

twice that of California. And

43:14

we're going to give researchers the data they

43:16

need to advance ocean science. And we're going to give

43:19

the media, campaigners, and

43:21

the public powerful knowledge about human

43:24

activity out at sea.

43:31

Okay, I am just opening up right now

43:33

the Global Fishing Watch

43:36

map. And I am

43:38

seeing now the whole globe and

43:40

there are different shades of greens

43:43

and blues going on on the oceans all

43:45

over the place. What broadly am

43:47

I seeing?

43:48

So the colors that you'll see

43:50

out on the ocean is fishing activity.

43:53

It's the global footprint of fishing is the easy way to

43:56

think about it.

43:58

If

43:58

you wanted to look at one particular vessel.

44:00

activity you could click it, open

44:03

up the screen for maybe six years of

44:05

activity

44:06

and you'll literally watch the track

44:08

evolve around the globe as that vessel's

44:10

moved around.

44:11

And

44:13

if it's turned off its track as any stage you'll

44:15

see that it's turned them off and there'll be clear

44:18

flags that he's gone missing it could be that they're in port

44:20

it could be they've turned it off for nefarious

44:23

reasons but that's what we're trying to do make it

44:25

so easy to understand what you're looking at.

44:29

So I'm looking at this one region

44:31

sort of off the coast of China and it

44:34

says that there have been over the last

44:36

few months 593 encounter events for carriers

44:38

and

44:43

fishing vessels.

44:46

What is that describing? So encounters

44:49

is a description we use for when vessels

44:52

meet at sea when they rendezvous at sea.

44:54

So the fishing vessels carry

44:56

on fishing they're drawing out everything they

44:58

can and they literally pass

45:00

the fish to a cargo vessel who

45:03

then takes a fish to port. So those encounters

45:06

are really important because it's entirely

45:08

legal if authorized but it's entirely

45:11

not

45:12

if they're not. So we

45:14

need to understand where they're happening. Do

45:17

you remember the first time you saw

45:19

the map light up? I mean

45:21

it must have been magical it's changing

45:23

how we can even see

45:26

the ocean.

45:27

Yes so less than a decade

45:29

ago building this sort of system just just

45:31

wasn't possible. It's

45:33

the advances in AI and the increase

45:36

in the number of satellites that are orbiting the earth

45:38

are making it possible and

45:41

a big moment was the North

45:43

Korea report as we call it.

45:46

We

45:46

looked into North Korean waters using all

45:49

of the different data sets that we had and

45:51

put together our report

45:53

that exposed over a thousand vessels fishing

45:55

illegally in North Korean waters against

45:58

the UN sanctions. That was a turning

46:00

point because people then realized what

46:03

the power of the data could

46:04

do.

46:06

We call them dark vessels.

46:09

And generally, dark vessels are up to no good.

46:11

So we had to turn to other sources of data.

46:14

We looked at satellite-based

46:16

radar and optical imagery. And we lit

46:18

that region up. We revealed an amada

46:21

of almost a thousand vessels,

46:23

pillaging more than half a billion

46:25

dollars worth of squid each year. It's

46:28

one of the largest cases of illegal fishing ever seen.

46:33

But there's huge human impact,

46:35

too. Tragedy. Because

46:38

the smaller, more rickety North Korean

46:40

boats could not compete with that vast fleet, they were pushed

46:42

further and further out to sea.

46:44

And as a result,

46:46

hundreds of them would be capsized

46:48

to be washed ashore in Japan with

46:51

the crew either starving or dead.

46:53

We made our findings public.

46:56

And as a result,

46:58

we compelled the authorities to take action.

47:01

Illegal fishing in that region has dropped by 75 percent. And

47:03

we're not seeing hundreds of vessels now

47:06

washing ashore in Japan. It

47:11

turns out that China was behind

47:13

those vessels that were fishing illegally

47:16

in North Korean waters. But

47:19

can you even hold them or any

47:21

other country accountable for their

47:23

actions?

47:25

Yes, you can hold countries to account.

47:27

And it starts with providing them with

47:30

that information. So if

47:32

we use the example of North Korea, the

47:35

Republic of Korea and Japan

47:38

peer reviewed what we'd found, and then

47:40

they took it

47:41

multilaterally to the Chinese

47:43

and demonstrated clearly what was going

47:46

wrong. So the Chinese government could

47:48

not deny it. It was there. So

47:51

that was one level of pressure. But

47:54

we also worked with Ineobina, who

47:56

published in NBC online. And

47:59

it's a beautiful story.

47:59

that went global, and therefore

48:02

there was a huge public pressure to see a response.

48:04

We ourselves,

48:07

Global Fish and Watch, have had no direct

48:08

contact with the Chinese. It was done

48:11

through the government, Republic of Korea

48:13

and Japan, and through open

48:15

investigative journalism. And what we've

48:17

seen is a drop in the amount

48:19

of illegal fishing in that area as a result.

48:22

So you bring pressure to bear in different ways.

48:27

Can

48:27

I just ask you what ideally that

48:29

would look like? Like, give me an example

48:31

of what you would love to see happen.

48:34

Yeah, so what is the ideal? So

48:37

what I would like to see is every country

48:39

not be afraid of sharing information. To

48:41

realize that the information shared is far more powerful

48:44

than the information retained in this situation.

48:47

And therefore, whenever a country is talking

48:50

about becoming transparent through Global Fish and

48:52

Watch, they are encouraged to

48:54

work with the industry and with the local

48:56

fishermen to make sure they understand that

48:58

this data is not going to be used inappropriately.

49:01

Yeah, because the word surveillance, I mean,

49:03

that rings a lot of alarm bells

49:05

for people.

49:06

A lot of alarm bells. And of course, all

49:08

of the conversations around words like artificial

49:10

intelligence and the ethics of the data.

49:13

So we're very conscious of that. And

49:15

we're also very clear about personal information. No,

49:18

the fish in themselves do not want their personal

49:20

information shared. It doesn't get shared. It's

49:23

about the vessel. What goes public is

49:25

just enough to show that that country

49:28

is involved in transparency and

49:30

that most of the important data

49:33

is retained behind the scenes by the country

49:35

who owns the data. And we've got 12 countries

49:38

now committed to sharing their

49:40

data with us, which may not seem many, but

49:43

there is no global treaty

49:45

on transparency. There's nothing for us to hang our

49:47

hat on other than working

49:49

well with people and talking them

49:51

through the story and making them understand

49:53

why it's beneficial and then seeing them get

49:55

on board.

49:57

The

49:58

fact that transparency and open data

49:59

data is now talked about in every forum,

50:02

at every Congress, at every

50:05

conference, tells me that people have started

50:07

to realize that this

50:09

is an important way of

50:11

understanding what's happening out on the ocean. The

50:14

beautiful thing about Global Fishing Watch is that

50:17

it doesn't have to be Global Fishing Watch that does

50:19

it. We can have everyone else

50:21

using our data in order to assist.

50:23

Tony, it's nice to hear good news

50:25

about the environment for once, that there's something

50:28

happening. There is a lot

50:30

happening. I

50:32

think people have started to realize that the ocean

50:34

is not just the fish or

50:37

just what's inside the ocean. Actually

50:41

it's people on land that depend

50:43

on the ocean.

50:47

That was Tony Long. He's

50:49

the CEO of Global Fishing Watch.

50:52

You can see Tony's full talk

50:53

at TED.com. Thank

50:56

you so much for listening to our show

50:58

about Audacious Solutions. It

51:01

was inspired by the Audacious Project,

51:04

a funding initiative organized by TED

51:06

that connects philanthropists with

51:08

organizations and people working

51:11

to solve some of the world's biggest

51:13

problems. You can find out more about

51:15

all the projects you heard on this episode

51:18

and many others at audaciousproject.org.

51:24

This episode was produced by Harsha Nahada,

51:26

Lane Kaplan-Levinson, Fiona Geeran,

51:28

and Andrea Gutierrez. It

51:31

was edited by Sanaz Meshkenpour, Rachel

51:33

Faulkner-White, and me. Our production

51:35

staff at NPR also includes Matthew

51:37

Cloutier, James De La Houssay, and Katie

51:40

Monteleone. Beth Donovan is our

51:42

executive producer. Our audio engineers

51:44

were Josh Newell and Kwezi

51:47

Lee. Our theme music was written by

51:49

Ramteen Arablui. Our partners

51:51

at TED are Chris Anderson, Colin

51:53

Helms,

51:54

Michelle Quint, Alejandra Salazar,

51:56

and Daniela Balarezo. I'm Manoush

51:58

Zomorodi, and you've been listening to TED Talks. listening to the TED Radio

52:01

Hour from NPR.