0:03

Tapeds. It's a production of I Heart

0:05

Media and the NFL. The

0:11

draft is finally in the books, and so we

0:13

have a draft to react to here on TAPEDS

0:16

Draft season. Baba Shu was a longtime radio

0:18

voice of the New York Jets and also college

0:20

football for ESPN for years

0:23

and years and years and years and

0:25

for decades and decades and decades. Breaking

0:27

down the old twenty two for NFL films is

0:30

Greg Costel, who Greg, I'm just

0:32

happy that you've made it to the finish line with me, you

0:34

know, at your advanced age, to get all the way through

0:36

the draft. I think it's impressive that

0:38

we've made it this far together. Well, you know, if

0:40

I just to you how crazy I am. I'm still gonna

0:42

take one more week and watch some guys that I missed

0:45

now that I've seen the draft. So fortunately

0:48

there were always three guys in the first

0:50

uh three rounds, three players

0:52

that I had not seen in the first three rounds.

0:55

Because I think I'm up to about two guys

0:57

now that I've seen and in my one

0:59

man scouting service, So you know, it's it

1:01

takes a little time. As you know, Yeah, you're

1:04

you're the definition of unwell, which is not how

1:06

to guest to try to balance

1:08

this out, and it is the incomparable Charles

1:10

Davis, who joins us here on te Pets

1:13

draft season. Of course, on CBS during

1:15

the NFL season you'll hear analizing games,

1:17

but of course on the NFL network he was

1:19

covering the trap put out mock drafts all the

1:21

way leading up to the draft. So

1:23

broke down these prospects, Greg, probably

1:26

about as deeply as you did. And Charles,

1:28

thanks so much for doing this with us. We appreciate it. Hey,

1:30

Bob, Greg, thank you so much for having

1:33

me. This is fantastic And I can't wait

1:35

to talk a little ball with you. And you know,

1:37

Bob, with you being the radio voice of the

1:39

New York Jets, I have the feeling that

1:42

you're feeling pretty good about what you saw come

1:44

off the board. And and Greg,

1:46

you know we're gonna I know we're gonna talk quarterbacks,

1:48

which you know, you know all the players,

1:51

but you are a true quarterback guru.

1:53

And everyone in our league I know checks

1:55

to see what you say about quarterbacks because

1:58

it checks out really really well. And

2:00

last but not least, mock drafts

2:03

we all know are made to be put out

2:05

there for us to be mocked. Once

2:07

we put them out there, you go. Is there

2:09

is there any chance guys you'll allow

2:12

me to take all three of mine and use

2:14

them in combination so I look

2:16

better when it's all said and done, because

2:19

at different ones I got different

2:21

guys. Like I put Tyler Linderball

2:24

to Baltimore at fourteen with my second

2:26

mock draft, but didn't do it with my final

2:28

bock draft. You see where I'm going. So can I get

2:30

credit for one or get

2:33

picking at twenty to Pittsburgh on my first

2:35

one but not my last? Oh that's right,

2:37

it doesn't count that way. But I don't think this.

2:39

This should be like the S A T. You get to like superscore.

2:43

So yeah, you went, you might

2:45

have maybe you had three eleven hundreds

2:48

in the end of you so

2:50

tremendous work. Um, you know what. I

2:52

will selfishly get to the Jets at some

2:54

point. But you I think Charles touched on

2:56

the headline, and Greg I know, has opinions

2:58

on this as well. The quarterbacks

3:01

were fascinating the fact that quarterback

3:04

Kenny Pikett went in the first round probably

3:06

where most talent evaluators thought

3:09

he may go the most NFL

3:11

ready polished product in

3:13

college football this year. But no

3:15

one reached, No one made a big,

3:17

huge, aggressive trade up, no one panicked

3:20

and thought one of these guys might go late first

3:22

round and we better go up and get him. How surprised

3:24

were you that in many moth traps

3:27

you had Malik Willis projected as possibly

3:29

the top ten pick. Maybe people would be,

3:32

you know, just entranced by the ceiling,

3:34

and yet he and Matt Corral and

3:37

Desmond Ritterer and Sam Howe, all of

3:39

these guys that I think we all think of NFL

3:42

potential all dropped

3:44

later to the third round, and I

3:46

mean maybe in the end where they should have gone. What

3:48

do you think, Well, I think that that's kind

3:50

of I think, Bobby, you laid it out perfectly.

3:53

And I can't wait for Greg to chime in on this

3:55

because I said before, we all

3:57

check and see what Craig says about

3:59

quarterbacks. And that's that's not because we're

4:01

on this show. That's just reality.

4:04

Like when you asked around the league and

4:06

you check with people, a lot of people will say,

4:08

well, what did Greg think his quarterbacks? And it's a

4:10

legit legit item.

4:12

I think that the league evaluations

4:16

for once, instead of the game of liars

4:18

poker that we're all used to for the last

4:21

month leading up to the draft, where everyone gives

4:23

you disinformation, I think

4:25

the league told us the truth this time and actually stuck

4:27

to it. And I think that you nailed at Bob.

4:30

There wasn't a panic. I looked into the

4:32

camera on day two

4:35

of the draft. I looked directly into the camera.

4:37

I spoke to the people. Actually,

4:39

I think I said at night one that someone's

4:42

gonna take a quarterback and then the

4:44

others are going to dive in. I

4:47

was wrong, but I was wrong,

4:50

which fit the evaluations because

4:52

before this whole thing started. And I'm gonna let

4:54

Greg get in here, because because because he should,

4:57

I said before the draft, and I stuck

4:59

to it the entire time. There was a

5:01

single quarterback in this draft that I

5:03

had rated as highly as the fifth quarterback

5:05

last year, and frankly the sixth

5:08

quarterback, which was Davis Mills

5:10

of Stanford who went to the Houston

5:12

Texas. That Davis Mills had played a

5:14

full year for David Shaw Stanford this year

5:17

have a sneaking suspension, we would have been ranking

5:19

him the number one quarterback coming out this year,

5:21

so that's where my evaluations were.

5:24

But as always, that doesn't mean there aren't

5:26

any stars in this that remains to

5:29

be seen. This is all about evaluation,

5:31

Greg, How did you say it? You know, I

5:33

was as you were just talking, and I thought about this

5:35

over the weekend as well, but it even hit me just more Charles

5:38

as you were speaking. I wonder

5:40

we become so ingrained in thinking

5:42

that everybody sees the quarterback position

5:45

now as a secondary action improvisational

5:48

position. And it's easy to say

5:50

that because we do see guys, whether

5:52

it's a Mahomes, whether it's a Josh Allen, do

5:55

those kinds of things at are really high level.

5:58

But I wonder if somewhere along

6:00

the line, and I don't know if this is true or not, As

6:02

I said, I it's just reacting to what you said.

6:05

It's somewhere along the line. Team

6:07

said, you know what, that's all

6:10

great, but we as coaches

6:12

work sixteen hours a day, we

6:14

have a whole off season. We put

6:16

in our system we wanted to be

6:19

executed, and if you executed

6:21

properly within the structure, there's

6:23

a much higher percentage chance that our

6:26

offense will run efficiently,

6:28

snap after snap after snap, not

6:30

waiting for a potentially

6:33

secondary action, improvisational play

6:36

which has somewhat of a random feel

6:38

to it. And I'm just wondering, if you

6:41

know, even with someone like Malik Willis and I

6:43

know you watched his tape, I personally

6:45

did not think his tape this year was

6:47

that strong overall. Now

6:49

can he make plays, of course,

6:52

but Charles, you and I both know coaches

6:54

and practice don't roll the ball out and say,

6:56

you know, our plan today is to just go make

6:58

some plays. And I just

7:01

wonder somewhere along the line, teams

7:03

thought, you know what, these guys have some issues

7:06

playing consistently within structure,

7:09

doing the things that are required at the

7:11

NFL level, snap after snap.

7:14

They're pretty significant works in

7:16

progress in that area. So

7:18

instead of just taking a guy because he can make

7:20

a few plays, Hey, Sam Howell made a lot

7:22

of plays, and I personally think

7:24

Sam Howell has a chance, But you

7:27

know what, he wasn't that consistent from the

7:29

pocket. He would tell you that I spoke to him at

7:31

the combine. He said to me, I didn't have a very

7:33

good year. Those are his words.

7:35

So I think that teams. Who

7:38

knows. I'm trying to give maybe a little more of a three

7:40

thousand foot view of how teams

7:42

might have thought, because Malik

7:45

Willis would have been seen I think by a lot

7:47

of people as, oh, you gotta go get him because

7:49

he can make plays, but obviously teams didn't

7:51

go get him. I love that. I absolutely love

7:54

that. I'm glad you brought that into play because

7:56

there's a quarterback and retired and unretired,

8:00

that makes the plays from the pocket, and

8:02

he has all rings and he's the best

8:04

quarterback we've ever seen, and that that, of

8:07

course is Tom Brady. Russell.

8:09

Wilson gets mis evaluated

8:11

in my mind, and was misevaluated coming

8:13

out of college by the vast majority

8:16

of us because the athleticism

8:18

was predominant. But I thought that one year

8:20

at Wisconsin was huge for

8:22

him and the biggest place he made. And

8:25

go back to his Seattle time. He made

8:27

pocket throws when he came out

8:29

of college, and everybody remember fourth and twenty six

8:31

and the Big Ten championship game. That wasn't

8:33

a broken play, it was a pocket throw and

8:35

he makes it and end up going on and win it.

8:38

So those types of quarterbacks hit. I

8:40

thought that Carson Strong from Nevada,

8:42

who didn't get drafted, might

8:44

have tested that theory Greg, except

8:47

his knees, and I think his health

8:49

were so bad that people passed on him, and

8:51

that's why he's gonna end up being a free agent

8:53

and last, but not least, one of

8:56

the all time great quarterbacks. Aaron Rodgers,

8:58

you have to help me with this one. I

9:00

think that his career revibes, for lack

9:03

of a better word, actually continue

9:05

to ascend or reascended,

9:07

whatever word you want to use. When

9:10

he got out of that stage near the end

9:12

of the Mike McCarthy time, in my mind of

9:15

every snap he started

9:17

to create instead of snap

9:20

rhythm, look for your guy, throw

9:22

the football. I think he's back to doing

9:25

that, and then the legs are an accessory,

9:28

not primary. And that's what I thought

9:30

for about a two or three years per stage.

9:32

As soon as he got in the snap, he was

9:35

off and going and going to create right away.

9:37

Now he's back in rhythm, and boy, that's

9:39

the Aaron Rodgers we all knew. Maybe I'll wrong, but

9:41

that's what I said, and you're so right, because

9:43

the last two years he's done that and

9:45

he's played at an exceedingly high

9:48

level. And I think what people are starting to

9:50

understand is, you know, sure,

9:52

we see Mahomes do his thing, Josh do his

9:54

thing in Buffalo, but at some

9:57

point in this league, you need to drop

9:59

back passing game. And if

10:01

you don't have that, you're going to

10:03

stop in your quest to get to the big

10:06

game. You know. I think there are teams that are

10:08

very good examples of that when I say they don't have one.

10:10

Obviously, Charles, it's in their playbook, we know

10:12

that, but but they just don't

10:14

execute it at the level that's necessary

10:17

to really advance and become a

10:19

great team. And I think we're seeing

10:21

that, Hey, you know what, maybe that's something

10:24

that should be higher on the list as

10:26

opposed to lower on the list. Yeah, the second

10:28

reaction stuff, Bob. The second reaction

10:30

stuff, in my mind is

10:32

that that's an accessory. That's what you

10:34

sprinkle in. If the second reaction is

10:36

what you're doing right off the top, well,

10:39

we're back, We're we're having the turkey ball out back.

10:42

Now we're we're playing that, We're coming in and having

10:44

the pumpkin pie, and and and

10:46

that just doesn't work quite the same way

10:48

as we go along doing it. And I think

10:50

teams are starting to evaluate that a little

10:52

bit more. And yes, we remember,

10:54

just as Greg put out there, what Mahomes

10:56

does, what Josh does, all that, but

10:59

the biggest plays they make are from the pocket.

11:02

And I'm gonna just stop up right here with this last

11:04

observation, and it's one I'm gonna continue

11:06

to jump up and down the table on quarterback.

11:09

Pro days have turned into

11:12

horse contests at cential? How

11:15

many players can I show? How many times can I

11:17

show you an off schedule, off

11:20

platform throw that you all

11:22

go, wow, how great was that? How

11:24

About you hit your back foot and

11:26

either the ball comes out of your hand or

11:29

your back foot and hitch it to time up the

11:31

route and then throw the football and

11:33

make that throw time and time and time

11:35

again. Drew Lock had a

11:37

fantastic Pro Day with the off platform

11:40

throws. We haven't seen

11:42

him consistently make the throw on three and five

11:44

step drops he's supposed to make to make him a starting

11:46

quarterback in the NFL. I think

11:49

I think all the Pro days have got to stop

11:51

doing that. Hey, you want to give

11:53

me one of those? Cool? But we're

11:55

getting a whole series to show

11:57

you off platform. All right, that's fine,

12:00

but the biggest thing is am I consistently

12:02

making the throw on three, five step and seventh step

12:04

dropped up supposed to make? Yeah,

12:06

when Zach Wilson had his pro day, uh,

12:09

you know, obviously as a Jets guy, it

12:11

went viral when he had like that office back

12:13

foot flicked the side on fifty yard

12:15

down the middle and and Jet fans

12:17

saw that like, oh my god, look what this guy

12:19

can do. Well, you don't want him doing

12:22

that, Like like if he's if

12:24

he's doing that a lot, it means whatever play

12:26

that you drew up, it didn't work, and now

12:28

he has to correctly get an offensive coordinator.

12:30

I think, show me what you look like

12:33

when the play that I put on the whiteboard comes

12:35

together the way it's supposed to, and

12:37

then you can execute that, And

12:39

to me, that's more valuable. I agree, and Greg

12:42

and I've talked about this, Charles. I want to get your reaction

12:44

as well before we wrap up this segment

12:46

and maybe get to some teams and some other positions.

12:48

But even if the quarterbacks

12:51

an anomaly this year dropped, this

12:54

draft still shows it's still

12:56

all about the quarterback, right like, look

12:59

what teams did. Look at the trades teams

13:01

made for big wide receivers. Look

13:03

at the top twelve guys that came off the board.

13:05

To start, you need to get to Jordan Davis

13:08

before that was the first player in

13:10

this draft that you can make an argument place

13:12

a position that isn't about the quarterback. Everybody

13:15

else it was the guy who's gonna

13:17

catch the ball from the quarterback, or the guy that's gonna cover

13:19

the guy that you're gonna try to throw too, or the guy

13:21

that's blocking for the quarterback, or right the

13:24

top. It's

13:26

all still about the quarterback, isn't it. At

13:29

great point, it's how the quarterback plays

13:31

and how you affect the quarterback. All

13:33

three of us are old enough to know these coaches.

13:36

We weren't around totally when they

13:38

weren't walked the sidelines, but they're the legends.

13:41

Bear Bryant and Bumm Phillips

13:43

repopularized it. The game

13:45

is still about protect ours

13:48

rush. There's it still

13:51

comes back to that. It hasn't changed

13:53

protect your quarterback. That's what you're

13:55

talking about, Bob. All those offensive tackles

13:57

came off the board, rushed the quarterback.

13:59

How about all the all the edge rushers that came

14:02

off the border early. Exactly right

14:04

about that. The game is still played there, So

14:06

you're right, even if it wasn't quarterbacks,

14:08

it was about making the quarterback either

14:10

uncomfortable or are safe

14:12

enough to throw it to those receivers that came off

14:14

the board as well. I love that observation. That's

14:17

Charles Davids, Sam Babo shoot, Hi, Gregg Cosell of

14:19

course with me as well, and this is Tape Heeds

14:21

Draft season. Will step aside for just a moment and come

14:23

back and attack some of the teams, some of the other

14:25

big position groups that were headline

14:27

makers in the NFL

14:29

Draft in just a moment, Baba

14:35

shoot, Greg Cosell and Charles Davis

14:37

kind enough to spend some time with us this week wrapping

14:39

up our coverage of Tape Heeds Draft

14:41

Season and the two NFL

14:43

Draft and you know, Charles would spent pretty

14:46

much the entire first segment talking not just about the

14:48

quarterbacks, but philosophically how teams

14:50

went after players that impact the quarterback.

14:52

Let's get to some teams and you know you brought them up,

14:55

so I will selfishly take the bait my

14:58

Jets that seemed had a pretty good draft, right.

15:00

Everybody seemed to collectively across

15:02

the board think that they got

15:05

a lot of boxes checked that they were

15:07

able to get not only three first round picks,

15:10

but three players in the first round, including

15:12

Jermaine Johnson at twenty six that many

15:14

people had prognosticated to be

15:17

top ten guys. Um. And then they

15:19

did get some other weapons that seemed

15:21

to be their philosophy. Just keep getting weapons,

15:23

um, you know, for for Zach Wilson

15:25

or guys that can go cover together team's weapons.

15:28

And now, of course with Sauce Gardner their

15:30

first pick. So what was your overall take

15:32

on their performance? I thought it was phenomenal

15:35

And one of the points I tried

15:37

to make on the on the broadcast, I'll know if

15:39

it cut through didn't because let's face there's

15:41

a lot of time plus ed mayor narrow, so

15:43

you know there's a lot going on for our for our

15:45

draft. The

15:48

people people were hopping on the Jets

15:50

bandwagon for the draft, and Joe Douglas

15:52

and GM, I thought, look

15:54

did we forget last year? He already

15:56

showed you he knows how to manipulate a board.

15:59

Remember last year when you do it, when the Jeff took

16:01

Zack Wilson at two, he came

16:04

back and executed a trade with Minnesota

16:06

to get it to get Elijah Vera Tucker

16:09

to guard tackle from USC at fourteen.

16:11

You don't just take the quarterback and make

16:13

sure and leave him naked and in his eyes.

16:16

Hey, we had McKay Beckton from before.

16:18

You're bringing Vera Tucker. You got a heck

16:21

of a left side. And then you come back

16:23

and get the runner of Michael Carter at four. You got Alijah

16:25

More in the second round. I thought last year

16:27

was a tremendous draft for the Jets. Now

16:30

you come back this year and

16:32

in the game of can you top yourself? I

16:34

would say Joe Douglas did because

16:37

not only was he waiting to come

16:40

back in to get Jermaine Johnson as he kept

16:42

dropping, he did how about

16:44

it a second round what he did

16:46

to make sure he got Breece Hall, because

16:49

I mean that was a big deal. Breece Hall was

16:51

I think the consensus top runner on the board.

16:54

And now you're gonna pair Breeze Hall in the second

16:56

round this year, Michael Carter in the fourth round

16:58

last year, Zach Wilson has that you

17:01

got Alijah More last year. You now

17:03

you come back with uh with Garrett

17:05

Wilson this year. You

17:07

know, oh, by the way he signed the

17:09

c j us Alma right, didn't signed

17:12

Alert Conklin as well, and in in in

17:14

free agency. And then you come making Jeremy

17:17

Rucker from ohiose date he was a very underrated

17:19

tight end and people go, well, you didn't

17:21

catch a lot of balls, And I was like, well, then you don't

17:23

watch ball because Ohio

17:25

State was throwing too Chris

17:27

Alave, Garrett Wilson,

17:30

uh Smith

17:32

and Jagba. I mean, they were playing

17:34

the perimeter game. You're not throwing it to the tight

17:37

end because those guys are creating big plays. Jeremy

17:39

Rutgers a Long Island kid coming home. He's

17:41

ecstatic and his past catching

17:44

potential is more vast than what people

17:46

know. I thought it was a masterful draft by

17:48

Joe Douglas and Bob If I could just jump

17:50

in, I I couldn't agree more. The Rutgert

17:52

picked. To me, we all know about the first

17:55

round picks and obviously Breeze Hall, but

17:57

I watched a ton of Rutgers, I mean and Obviously

18:00

he did not catch a lot of balls, but

18:02

people might forget he was a big, big

18:04

time recruit coming out of Long Island

18:06

and he is a really talented

18:08

guy. Obviously he blocked a lot at Ohio

18:10

State, but when you really dig into his

18:13

tape and see the routes that he ran

18:15

and the athleticism that he brings to the table,

18:18

he's a three level dimension as a tight

18:20

end, and I think he's one of those guys along

18:22

with a zoom And now now you have two tight

18:24

ends, so the Jets are in a position that every

18:27

offensive coach wants to be in. And

18:29

keep in mind their offensive coordinator

18:31

has that San Francisco background, so

18:34

they can line up with two tight ends,

18:36

they can line up with three wide I think

18:38

this is a team now that presents a lot of options

18:40

offensively, and it puts Zack Wilson

18:43

ideally in a good position. I like hearing

18:45

all that, Charles any other teams. We were actually

18:47

touching on the Eagles, Greg and I work

18:49

before we came on the fact that they made a big

18:51

deal for a primetime wide receiver

18:53

and a j Brown and then drafted to Georgia

18:57

between the tackles front seven

18:59

defensive players as part of their top

19:01

three picks, you know, in Nakobe Dean

19:04

and Jordan Davis. I don't know if that is

19:06

a team that fascinated your or any others

19:08

on your list. Well, let's stick with the Eagles since

19:10

you brought him up, because yes, they did fascinate

19:13

me. Howie Rosemand, the

19:15

mojo was there, Okay, not

19:17

that it has been. You know, I really

19:19

feel like some of these gms and how he's kind

19:21

of a lightning ride for people really zeroing

19:24

in on what happened, what didn't

19:26

happen to all this. I'll tell you this about

19:28

Howie Roseman. What's he standing? Greg

19:31

five, Diing five eight whatever? Right?

19:34

But he but but Howie Rosemand play seven

19:36

feet tall guys in every

19:38

draft. Howie Roseman gets after

19:41

it. Okay, he has he has

19:43

the gumption of the cat burglar.

19:45

Okay, he's a second story guy because

19:48

he has conviction on people and

19:50

he will go and do what he has to do to try and

19:53

get them. Once he got Jordan

19:55

Davis getting a j Brown

19:57

in the trade, that means he had to work out the

19:59

contract along the way because

20:02

he didn't want to say I'm gonna trade for him

20:04

and then have to work out the contract, which cost

20:06

you even more money down the road

20:08

if you hit it wrong. He worked out all

20:10

the details and now he's got that tough

20:13

guy. See I compare A.

20:15

J. Brown in a way to Jarvis

20:17

Landry because juice in

20:19

your in your wide receiver room, A

20:22

J. Brown is gonna be the same way. You got

20:25

to play the game with some toughness as well. You

20:27

can't just go run your route to do your stuff.

20:29

You gotta do all the things, do the things

20:31

possible to be a pro. A J. Brown

20:34

is like that. He played through a lot of injuries last

20:36

year and played really tough. He made missed

20:38

some games, but when he was out there, he was and

20:41

he played strong. So let's get back to the

20:43

draft, getting Jordan Davis

20:45

and then, as you pointed out, Bob the Kobe

20:47

Dean, the linebacker who many

20:50

had as their top linebacker on the

20:52

board, they get him in the third

20:54

round because of an injury. Concerned that can't

20:56

that emerged at the combine where he had a

20:58

peck injury and decided not to get

21:00

surgery at the time. So people think

21:02

he's gonna be behind in his rehab and will

21:05

he be ready for the season. I'm

21:07

willing to wait on Nakobe Dean because once

21:09

he gets healthy, the way we're playing

21:11

linebacker these days, they don't have to be

21:13

huge. He's better than every linebacker

21:16

they've got right now. So soon

21:18

as he plugs into the lineup, they're

21:20

often running. So to me, that was masterful to

21:22

get him there. And last year, you remember,

21:25

they drafted Landon Dickerson out of Florida's

21:27

state in Alabama,

21:30

right he played in two schools. We

21:32

thought he was the heir apparent at center

21:34

for Jason Kelsey, and he played guard last

21:37

year. What this draft pick of

21:39

Cam Jurgens from Nebraska told me

21:41

is that the Eagles and Jeff Stoutland, they're offensive line

21:44

coach, have evaluated Landon Dickerson, think

21:46

that he's really good at guard. And

21:48

now we've got our air apparent Camp Jurgens,

21:50

a center Kelsey with another one year

21:52

deal. Give Jurgens a chance to break

21:54

in, You leave Dickerson and guard Jerkins

21:56

takes over at center. I really like all

21:59

the things they did, and I'm

22:01

gonna leave it at this. Kyran

22:03

john In the linebacker out of Kansas, they

22:05

drafted an undersized

22:07

pass rusher. They can use them

22:09

as a DPR designated pass rusher

22:11

until he gets really comfortable, gets a little weight under

22:13

him. But boy, he plays with great leverage

22:16

that we thought the Senior Bowl he may

22:18

not look the part, but he was getting underneath

22:20

these big blockers and finding

22:22

ways passed them and pass rush drills.

22:25

You know. You know what I'm curious about with Nakobe

22:27

Dean. The tape is very good. You

22:30

know, you have to like the player. There's nothing not

22:32

to like based on tape. I'd

22:34

be curious if some teams thought because

22:36

he's really close to the bottom end of

22:38

the spectrum in terms of height for teams

22:41

that look at that. And you know, Charles, there are

22:43

teams that do that. They have standards and

22:45

they have parameters for every position. We

22:47

know that. But the thing that stood

22:49

out to me because Kirby Smart is one

22:51

of the few coaches in college football where

22:53

when you watch their defense you see

22:55

true NFL pressure concepts,

22:58

and na Kobe Dean was an outstanding

23:01

blitzer. And I'm curious if John

23:03

and Gannon, the d C for the the Eagles,

23:05

who last year I don't think could really do

23:07

a lot of the things he wanted to do simply

23:10

because he didn't have the personnel. I'm

23:13

wondering if they see Dean in that

23:15

role as he matures and

23:17

develops and gets coached, because

23:19

he was a really, really good blitzer.

23:21

He's very good playing forward. I like

23:23

that, and and the good thing he had. And but

23:26

I think what some people might have been concerned with Greg

23:29

is what he had in front of him.

23:32

You guys watched I mean, Bob, you do college

23:34

football every week? How many

23:36

times have you gotten that shot on TV that

23:38

you you were not even talking about, but you notice

23:41

it. Greg sees it in the same way where

23:44

that shot is from behind the offensive huddle

23:46

and the defensive line has broken the huddle

23:48

and they're waiting for you and

23:50

you look up. How many times

23:52

have we seen that with Georgia this year because

23:54

it became a favorite shot because you

23:57

look up in that imposing defensive line

23:59

is standing their hands on hips. That

24:02

defensive line allowed him to do so

24:04

many things with Nakobe Dean, with Channing

24:06

Tenda, with Quay Walker that

24:08

because of the size with Nakobe Dean, I

24:11

think people were wondering was he protected

24:13

so well? Kenny

24:15

hand fight through things if I can't protect him

24:17

as well, that caused him concern as well

24:20

going forward. But I think Greg is spot

24:22

on the Kobe Dean's just such a great player.

24:24

I comped him to Jonathan Vilma because

24:27

he plays the game with his brain as well. This

24:29

is gonna be a guy that that you don't have any worries

24:32

about running your defense through. And

24:34

as soon as he gets healthy, I love that

24:36

pick. And to get him in the third, to

24:38

me, that's like an extra first round pick. Bob.

24:41

Yeah, well, Jonathan Vilma, I was had a

24:43

hard time interviewing him because it kind of felt stupid while

24:45

I was talking to him. Yeah, well I have that

24:47

when I have that, Bob, when I have conversations

24:50

with him, I'm like, Jonathan, can you can

24:52

you translate what you just said to me?

24:54

Hey? Um, we're always looking for diamonds

24:57

in the rough. You did mock draft, so obviously

24:59

you were someone that was looking I mean literally all

25:01

the way through this draft. So in

25:03

this trap, will you know? And I think sometimes

25:05

with the fans and media, we've spent so much time

25:08

talking about the first round, yeah, that we almost

25:10

feel like the draft is over on Thursday

25:12

night. We're really the guts of your team are

25:14

put together in rounds two through

25:16

seven. Yeah, so who were which

25:19

teams do you think maybe did the best work

25:21

based on your you know, player

25:24

evaluations, where there were some guys in the second,

25:26

third, and fourth round you were like, oh, wait a minute, now

25:28

they got a guy that I just think it's a difference

25:30

maker. Can I take Houston as a whole? Sure?

25:33

Sure, Let's face it, it's

25:35

really easy. It's been really easy to dump on Houston

25:37

over the last few years, hadn't it. I mean it's been

25:40

real easy, Like that's not even been sport

25:42

for us. Okay, they've

25:45

looked like a total disarray. They

25:47

look like, you know, are they even trying

25:49

out there with that roster? What's

25:52

going on? You know? You know, you you hire,

25:54

you hire a coach last year, and and and

25:56

and uh David McCulley, and

25:59

then you you fired him in one year and

26:01

he's worked his butt off and those guys play hard

26:03

for him. So what exactly were you doing

26:06

at that place? You know, they

26:08

have the Deshaun Watson circus going on.

26:11

I gotta tell you something, whatever was

26:13

said before Nick Cassario,

26:16

in my mind, in this draft, they

26:18

went at it with conviction. I used that word

26:20

a lot. They decided to Derek

26:22

Stingley, who I think was the most talented

26:25

corner in this draft. But I understood

26:27

why people out of my Gardener ahead of him, because

26:29

Gardener had been more consistent the last two seasons.

26:32

But Stingley at the top of his game,

26:35

no question, my my best corner in this draft.

26:38

And when he came back healthy for his Pro Day,

26:40

and if you put the time in and I assumed

26:43

Houston did, to be convinced that this guy's

26:45

ready to elevate again. That's why

26:47

he went at three instead of a mod Gardener.

26:50

Then you come back and you get Kenyan Green

26:52

at thirteen, which I was joking

26:54

with someone the Kenyan Green was probably at the bowling

26:57

alley or somewhere else because he

26:59

didn't expect to hear his name at thirteen. He

27:02

didn't think he even starting to hear name until the mid

27:04

twenties and then beyond.

27:07

But at thirteen he provides I

27:10

think the most physical offensive guard

27:12

in this draft. So now you provided

27:14

a second starter right away. Then

27:17

you go to Jaln Petrie. My favorite

27:19

safety in the draft. My favorite player was Kyle

27:21

Hamilton and Notre Dame. So I'm not changing

27:23

that, but people have heard me throughout

27:25

this process. I've had a major man

27:27

crush on Jaln Petrie because instincts

27:30

are huge in the secondary and Tyrone

27:32

Matthews the patron saying of instincts,

27:34

we know that, But since then

27:37

I've said, Elijah Molden from

27:39

who went to the Titans last year, reminded

27:41

me Antoine Winfield when he came out

27:43

of Minnesota before he went to the Bucks. Reminded me

27:46

Jalen Petrie is this year's example to

27:48

me of that guy. Now you talking

27:50

about those guys, Bob who we got in the third,

27:52

fourth, fifth, how about getting Christian

27:54

Harrison, linebacker from Alabama. And the third

27:57

Damian Pierce are running back from Florida who is

27:59

a thumper yet catches the ball well

28:01

out of the backfield. The oddity he's

28:03

going to be that his first one yard

28:06

rushing game will happen in the NFL.

28:08

He never had it in college because they've

28:11

moved the ball around so much and they didn't

28:13

stick with the run as much of Florida. And

28:15

then Thomas Booker, the de tackle from Stanford.

28:17

It can be a great zero technique and run stopper,

28:21

tea Qua Torriano

28:23

the tight end from Morgan State, more blocker than

28:25

catcher, Austin Deculus

28:27

for tackle from Louisiana State. I think

28:29

great value through there because they will compete.

28:32

But Derek Stingley one, Kenyan

28:34

Green one, Jalen Petrie to John

28:36

Netchi the receiver from Alabama too when

28:39

he gets healthy, Christian Harris free

28:41

from Alabama. All of them will

28:43

start as soon as they are ready

28:45

to go meeting health wise, They're

28:47

immediate starters. And I think Damian

28:49

Pierce, he immediately takes some carries from

28:52

Rex burke Head. I thought it was about his professional

28:54

a draft as Houston has had in

28:56

a while. Now, you know, just a

28:58

real quick point, and I love your

29:00

thought, and it's probably a longer conversation.

29:03

But Jalen Petrie is fascinating to me

29:05

because he obviously is you know, Charles, he played what

29:08

they call the start position, so he played

29:10

slot corner, box safety

29:12

and outside linebacker. Okay, and

29:15

obviously when you watch his tape in college,

29:17

he was all over the place. He made a lot of plays.

29:20

But I kept trying to think, what

29:22

is he going to be in the NFL because and I'm

29:24

just being honest, and again, this is what I try to do.

29:27

I think about projection and transition

29:29

because they played a ton of zone

29:32

at UH in college. Now, of course Lovely

29:34

Smith does too, and I know a lot of people

29:36

said he's a slot corner, but he didn't

29:39

really play much man coverage, So to me,

29:41

that would have been a projection if you see him

29:43

as a slot corner and then there's a true

29:45

safety. I was thinking to myself,

29:48

is he really truly athletic

29:50

enough to be that guy in a love

29:53

E. Smith system? He could be. I'm not

29:55

sure. And then I can keep coming back

29:57

to the argument that, well, the guy's made plays

29:59

in college, He's just gonna keep making plays. And

30:02

I would just love quick thought from you, because

30:04

I I think he's a really good player

30:07

on tape. I just was uncertain

30:09

in my mind as to what his projection

30:12

would be in the NFL. Yeah, I think you're. I think

30:14

you're. It's a great question, Greg, because

30:16

I think you have to convince yourself of different

30:18

things when you when you go back and look

30:20

at his measurables and then go back and watch

30:22

him run move all those things.

30:25

Because he started there as a pure outside

30:27

linebacker. So that's this kind

30:29

of a move was almost like uh

30:33

Carnel Lake coming out of U. C l A.

30:35

Remember, he was like a pure outside back through

30:38

c l A. He was under size, but because

30:40

he was so athletic, the Steelers made him a

30:42

safety, and boy did they hit on that one. Petrie

30:45

started as an outside back or Baylor,

30:48

but as you pointed out, played that

30:50

star position, so he had to have the traits of

30:52

everything. It's kind of like an astrology.

30:54

If you're born within three days of either

30:56

side of the dates on your thing, you get

30:58

the characteristics of both signs.

31:02

Well, that's kind of what Petrie was. He was in the cuff

31:04

outside linebacker here, safety

31:07

here, linebacker, you know, and that dime

31:09

linebacker here. What I think

31:11

he is is where the game has moved to as

31:13

well, that Buffalo safety

31:15

deal, Greg, where you have three Yeah,

31:18

you mean the nickel

31:21

right. He's more the big nickel guy as

31:23

opposed to the nickel corner, as you pointed

31:25

out, because the nickel corner wasn't much

31:27

of what he was really locked in doing.

31:29

No, he didn't play a lot of man, didn't play a

31:31

lot of man, But I will say this. He

31:34

moves and he's fluid, and he ran way

31:36

better than what people thought. I think

31:38

he can do all the characteristics of everything

31:41

else. I'm betting on his instincts

31:43

about the football to be that

31:45

type of a player, and I think, to love you to

31:47

find find plenty of ways to do that.

31:49

That's what I'm counting on. So I think it's a great

31:52

question, and it is a little bit of a projection.

31:55

And Bob, I think that takes

31:57

me to why Trent Baky

31:59

went number one with Trayvon Walker, because

32:02

there is a bit of a project ship. There

32:04

is a thing that Treyvon Walker is going to be

32:06

a great pass rusher because you don't go

32:08

draft a guy at one for six sacks

32:11

a year. You draft a guy at one for

32:13

double digit sacks a year. And Trayvon Walker

32:15

never did that at Georgia. Adan Hutchinson

32:18

did that in Michigan. That's why people are

32:20

like, WHOA, what's going on here? The

32:22

projection for them is the athleticism,

32:25

the scheme he played at Georgia where he took up double

32:27

teams where they didn't put him out there is a wide

32:29

nine. All those things. They think

32:31

that all that can emerge and they

32:33

see that upside as being big and that's

32:35

what Trent Baky put his name on the line for. Well,

32:38

Charles, I can't tell you how much we appreciate

32:41

the time you've given us all this information.

32:43

I mean, we could go team by teams

32:45

for this entire drafted you with. The problem is, by the time

32:47

we got done with all the information you and Greg have, you'd

32:49

be in the booth calling your first team of the season. Hey

32:52

hey, we don't, we don't. We'd all be right there

32:54

at kickoff, wouldn't we. But

32:57

hopefully we can do this again with you at some point down

32:59

the road. We love talking ball with you. Thanks a million,

33:02

Thanks a million, thanks for having time to give

33:04

me this time with you guys. It is flat out terrific

33:06

and you know I love picking your brains as well. Look

33:09

forward to seeing you again soon. Bob's same with

33:11

you, Greg. Thanks, Charles, really appreciate

33:13

it. Thanks a lot of guys, You're the best. Thanks

33:15

Charles. That is Charles Davis, so much

33:17

information. And we're back tomorrow with another

33:20

and I guess our final episode of Tape

33:22

Heads Draft season to wrap up our coverage

33:24

and our look back at the two NFL trapt

33:26

Boble Shoosing a great post, Cell, Thanks

33:28

for being a tape pend