0:08

this is a black dog, wolf wolf

0:10

production written and reported by

0:13

me, john sweeney

0:15

hello to everyone out

0:17

there who listen to old 12 episodes

0:20

of taking on putin? you've got

0:22

a treason store a one off

0:24

bonus edition everything you wanted

0:27

to know about vladimir putin

0:29

sex life that were afraid

0:31

to ask this is an extract

0:34

from my audiobook killer

0:36

, the kremlin if you

0:38

listen the kremlin

0:40

went like it

0:44

chapter eight

0:47

one lumpur to

0:50

the summer two thousand six hundred

0:52

am i putting gets out of his motorcade moves

0:55

towards the kremlin every

0:57

now and then he likes to play folksy leader

0:59

the one with added ease

1:02

with the narrowed the russian people

1:05

what is walkabout he sports a blonde russian

1:07

boy who looks five years old

1:09

if that the news before

1:11

him personally felt the

1:13

boys shirt and kisses him

1:15

on the summer you can watch a

1:17

video on youtube just search for putin

1:20

kisses a boy one stone this

1:23

creepy

1:25

there

1:26

i ask a russian woman for reaction

1:29

the this was a russian saying she replies

1:32

i was shot not the russian

1:34

thing it's totally wrong it's

1:36

absolutely no seen russian culture okay

1:39

russians after maybe one bottle of vodka they

1:41

become more friendly that not

1:43

like this the

1:45

name of my russian friend is marina litvinenko

1:48

the husband was alexander sasha

1:50

litvinenko the former colonel

1:53

in the kgb fsb what

1:56

he made of the video poussin kneeling down

1:58

and kissing that as obama some

2:00

the gremlins reaction to it created headlines

2:03

around the world but

2:05

to work out what happened we need to understand

2:08

the back history the strange

2:10

relationship between the two

2:12

former kgb offices it

2:15

that been anchor a

2:17

career officer in the secret service clyburn

2:20

and co when the soviet union imploded

2:22

stayed with the renamed at a speed

2:25

working in it's branch dealing with organized

2:27

crime he came across

2:29

repeated incidences of

2:31

his fellow fsb offices working for

2:34

them being paid off by organized crime

2:37

right moral incorruptible

2:40

live an anchor was disgusted by the sleeves

2:43

the went out of his wage to write

2:45

details lindsay reports on it set

2:48

them on the desks of his bosses time

2:52

and again his efforts to clean up his

2:54

own service came to new if

2:57

your partner she says or

2:59

accredited do not pay the

3:01

supply did not deliver where

3:03

did you turn to complain the

3:06

enforce becomes a commodity there

3:08

was always demand for it protection

3:10

rackets in russian creature

3:12

literally roof appeared

3:15

people who showcases unprotected

3:18

your business this it

3:20

was provided by the mob then

3:23

police and soon even

3:26

our own guys realize what was what

3:29

and then then begun the monks gangsters

3:31

cops and the agency the

3:33

fsb the market

3:35

share there's

3:37

the police in the fsb became more competitive

3:40

they squeeze the gangs out of the market

3:44

however in many cases competition

3:46

gateway to cooperation the

3:48

security services became

3:50

gangsters themselves this

3:53

is exactly what you're he shouted chicken

3:56

warned about for his skin

3:58

sauces appeal

4:00

the ninety ninety four

4:02

the results geek the russian oligarchs

4:04

who later on invested heavily in vladimir

4:06

putin as a potential successor

4:08

see yeltsin he's making a fortune

4:11

by importing farm cause much

4:13

to the dismay of russian co makers

4:16

the solution the

4:18

block is com the

4:20

driver died but the oligarchs survived

4:23

the litvinenko investigators

4:25

the assassination plot the

4:27

results he was grateful for litvinenko

4:29

honesty and tenacity and

4:32

the two men hit men hit

4:34

the ninety ninety eight reserves

4:37

the power broker introduce

4:39

live in and co two brother my boots for

4:41

me just help become the new boss of

4:43

the fsb

4:45

berezovsky said, go see putin

4:47

make yourself known see what

4:49

a great guy we've installed with

4:51

your help

4:52

live

4:54

in enka reported to putin on the scale

4:57

of corruption the fsp is

5:00

investigation was how fsb

5:02

offices were providing roof that uzbek

5:05

drug barons but it was like

5:07

pissing on mobile live

5:09

in and co told his wife marina after

5:11

the meeting i could see

5:13

in his eyes that he hated me in

5:17

the fsp

5:20

offices in the organized crime branch

5:22

press conference announcing

5:24

corruption inside the service and

5:27

saying that they've been ordered and

5:29

kidnap prominent russians it

5:31

was a was of thing early on in the ocean

5:33

years would been just fine for

5:35

the rough-and-tumble avenue

5:37

and energetic democracy, but

5:40

now the mooted salad, i'm

5:42

preaching this troublesome agent

5:46

they to britain said i fired

5:48

litvinenko and disbanded as unit because

5:50

fsb officers should not sage

5:53

press conferences this conferences this their

5:55

job they should not make

5:57

internal scandals public

6:00

writing was on the was not just

6:02

for litvinenko also for his

6:04

old mental the results two

6:07

thousand litvinenko got out

6:09

to turkey tried to claim political

6:11

asylum with the americans who turned

6:13

him down then flew to london

6:16

with the british showed more knows affectively

6:19

live in and co defected to m i six

6:22

the british secret service spirited

6:25

marine are in the sun out so

6:27

by summer two thousand and six the

6:29

litvinenko were living in alexandra

6:31

palace alley pally

6:33

the north london

6:35

an egg so in london to was

6:37

periscope sky who help from litvinenko

6:40

research into corruption in the highest levels

6:42

of the russian secret state up

6:44

to [unk] the course including

6:47

in himself there's

6:50

a clip of litvinenko talking about

6:52

what it is like to be on the run from the

6:54

fsb which appeared on our

6:56

bbc panorama in two thousand

6:58

and seven it's

7:00

like a free food parachute jump

7:03

is only terrifying when you're jumping from the

7:05

plane when you look down but as

7:07

you jump there isn't much you can do your in

7:09

freefall you can't go back

7:12

you can only go down that

7:16

a live in anchor was in person's eyes

7:19

the croatia

7:20

the kgb to the fall

7:22

bolland to ever think the mercer

7:24

the kremlin held dear

7:27

when poussin kiss the boy on the stomach live

7:30

an anchor wrote in his blog the

7:32

safety of valley pally vladimir

7:35

putin the p the fall

7:38

they've been and goes bogus says out in full

7:41

in sorrow but owns report into

7:43

the affair the former kgb

7:45

colonel claim that booty there's

7:48

been secretly filmed in the same flat

7:50

was herself as compromise with two women

7:52

prostitutes but in persons case

7:55

the was him with young boys they've

7:57

been ago said the authorities of

7:59

the they'd you be run andropov institute

8:02

ah stop the scandal the decided

8:04

not to send put him a fluent german

8:06

speaker to the west

8:08

years later

8:10

the and and co claimed when britain

8:12

become the director of the fsb in

8:14

ninety ninety eight the went hunting

8:17

for the secret files on him they've

8:20

been anchor booked he began to seek

8:22

and destroy any compromising materials

8:24

collected against him by the secret services

8:27

the early years it

8:30

was not difficult provided he

8:32

himself was the fsb director among

8:35

other things poussin found video tapes

8:37

and the fsb internal security

8:39

directorate which showed him making

8:42

sex with some underage

8:44

boys the

8:46

future to say that ass about vladimir

8:48

poussin where he say

8:51

no aromas for

8:54

the record

8:55

the kissing of the boy in the stomach

8:57

deeply unpleasant

8:59

i'm extraordinarily peculiar but

9:03

aside from that incident there is no

9:05

clear verifiable evidence the boot

9:07

in is peter fi the

9:10

namco provided known in this blog by

9:13

this point live an anchor these financial

9:15

moral backers of skeets hated

9:17

person it's is the enemy

9:20

of good intelligence you

9:22

need to be able to step back to

9:24

assess what he goes was you

9:26

haven't

9:27

cool

9:28

dualism requires the same scotia

9:31

what gets the story over the line is

9:34

multiple sources selling it on

9:37

here we've only litvinenko is

9:39

word for it the fsb

9:41

internal security directorate

9:43

the kompromat tape some poussin

9:46

that does not mean that his claim is inherently

9:49

untrue sexuality

9:51

like so much else about him remains

9:54

open it's just what

9:56

to say credible intelligence

9:58

and journalism you have to be a his

10:00

supply evidence to back up your story

10:02

if you done shop

10:05

across the episode of the street to

10:07

ignore you that's what happened

10:09

to litvinenko his claim without

10:11

supporting evidence what

10:13

little traction in the west the

10:16

kremlin took note all

10:19

enjoy always an american expert on

10:21

the russian secret state and former

10:23

director of security to the senate select

10:25

committee on intelligence he

10:28

knows the kremlin secret corridors very

10:30

well i'm was a good friend of litvinenko

10:33

and another former kgb officer retired

10:35

major general are like kalugin the

10:38

youngest major general in the history

10:40

of the soviet kgb kalugin

10:42

was high up in the form counterintelligence

10:45

section responsible for penetrating

10:47

foreign intelligence services worldwide

10:52

in july two thousand six litvinenko

10:54

since his draft blog calling poussin the

10:56

p to fall by thanks to kalugin the

10:59

immediately shared it with joy both

11:01

of them live in the washington dc area

11:05

live in an coast ruff blog analyze poussin

11:08

faltering project hurry a distance

11:10

of his kgb career joy

11:13

provided me with assessing summary

11:15

litvinenko said

11:17

you look closely at the blind spots including

11:20

person's biography you can find

11:22

it an explanation for his stool career

11:24

early on when he graduated

11:27

from the andropov institute the trains

11:29

offices for the kgb britain

11:31

was first sent to a junior position in the

11:33

leningrad directors of the kgb

11:36

for graduates to the under pop institute

11:39

fluency in german this

11:41

is a very unusual something

11:44

happened shortly before he graduated people

11:47

who study with him saying the

11:49

authorities caught of piece of the real

11:51

vladimir putin that he was a pita

11:53

file

11:54

robin and sound a full investigation

11:57

which could of course the cause a scandal

12:00

it was easier to come up with an excuse

12:02

not to send poussin abroad

12:05

many years later when putting became

12:07

head of the fsb he began to

12:09

seek out and destroy the evidence collected

12:11

against him that's what the

12:13

blog says

12:15

live in a grocery facts refers to someone

12:17

else on the trail off in his words

12:20

luton sexual perversion the

12:22

years before live

12:25

in and co road but the reporter aussie on

12:27

burrow thick published a story

12:29

on poussin the peter file one

12:31

week after publication he died

12:35

the mysterious circumstances

12:38

order that died in early march two thousand

12:41

the few weeks before russia voted

12:43

put it into office is presses

12:47

he was killed along with the passengers and crew

12:49

nine people in all the private

12:51

jet taking off from moscow's

12:53

share m t able airport

12:56

the official explanation was the the jazz

12:58

had not been d ice properly

13:00

the weather was not seriously cold

13:04

many suspected he had been

13:06

killed by the secret state

13:08

this was because he had been investigating

13:10

the mystery surrounding person's

13:12

birth that he was a bastard and

13:15

know says litvinenko claimed in the draft

13:17

that because he knew the peter

13:19

fall angle

13:20

some reason given i could drop

13:22

the claim about bored of it knowing the peter fall

13:25

allegation and the blog that he finally

13:27

published the records

13:30

know of course

13:31

alexander litvinenko and boris berezovsky

13:34

were involved in the kind of war with vladimir

13:37

putin after seeing this

13:39

argument alexander was about to publish

13:41

oleg kalugin on i expressly

13:43

told him not to do it

13:45

we said that this is ways who person

13:48

the really isn't enough to warrant

13:50

the accusation of p decision the

13:53

shocking is the incident was the

13:56

thing that worry joy and kalugin

13:58

the risk litvinenko

13:59

taking if he ran the peter

14:02

fall allegation

14:04

they've been anchors blow

14:06

this is an extremely personal insult

14:09

and a person

14:12

and to make this attack on the head of state of a country

14:14

like russia was of course extremely

14:17

dangerous

14:19

and to tell you the truth one

14:21

that few people took seriously that

14:25

is true the western world

14:27

ignored litvinenko explore moscow's

14:30

is not that

14:33

summer the russian parliament the do months

14:35

passed a new law allowing the states

14:37

to kill any extremists to defame

14:39

the president the oil said

14:42

the provided justification

14:45

the extreme measures

14:47

in plain english

14:48

that's nice

14:52

you're believes that controller the people as a

14:54

thing that rocks poussin spoke

14:56

this is in line by the way we've listing up

14:59

the shoes and kissing a boy on the belly

15:01

i can do this

15:03

the i'm going to do it

15:06

the intelligence analyst says that

15:08

he's not a professional psychologist

15:10

the students of human behavior

15:14

litvinenko did not listen to his friends

15:16

warning the empress published on

15:18

his blog the november

15:20

two thousand and six drawing

15:22

t would to russians in the millennium

15:24

hotel and mates

15:26

it was the case

15:28

one lamb two

15:31

came home to ali polly then

15:33

a few hours later he told marina

15:36

to sick

15:39

started vomiting and once you start

15:41

is he could not stop immediately

15:44

he sold marina this is chemical

15:46

poison

15:48

she could not believe anyone would do the

15:50

same they called an ambulance

15:52

and the paramedic sold him but it looks

15:55

like seasonal flu

15:57

irina takes up the story the next

15:59

day was lot of november he

16:01

became even worse vomiting blood

16:04

three days later

16:06

it was admitted to bomb is hospital the

16:08

doctors didn't realize what

16:11

who

16:12

they were dealing with

16:14

when sasha fierce ask them would

16:16

you check me for poison they looked at him as

16:18

if he was a crazy man i remember

16:21

i went to see him and he said the arena

16:23

they don't trust they've

16:26

been anchor was moved to university college

16:28

hospital with some of the best doctors

16:30

in london remained baffles

16:32

marina told me i notice

16:34

his hair when hair touched his head his

16:36

head lump of hair would fall off in my hand

16:39

i says sauce

16:43

he said

16:44

i'm

16:47

than i do this again and

16:49

again great lump of his hair was in

16:51

my hand the

16:53

skin started to blister

16:55

these white blood count was very low

16:57

but he was determined

16:59

to help the police now his killers telling

17:02

the detectives about his last movements helping

17:05

then investigate his own murder

17:08

he lay dying they've been and

17:10

co issued a statement the

17:13

last testament you may succeed

17:15

in silencing one man

17:17

but the whole of process from around

17:20

the wolves

17:21

will reverberate mr poussin a

17:23

new is for the rest of your life

17:28

on the last day he could speak marina

17:30

exhausted

17:31

is about to head home to look after their son

17:34

sasha told her

17:36

the arena

17:38

i love you so much

17:40

that night he lost consciousness

17:43

the never recovered

17:44

the

17:46

last photograph of alexander litvinenko

17:49

chose him entirely bulls green

17:51

hospital the jonas

17:53

monitoring thompson is bare chest

17:55

sharing

17:57

defiantly at the camp

18:01

it's are you input input guess i

18:03

set out to talk to someone who knows a thing or

18:05

two about radioactive poisons ever

18:08

the skeptical reporter

18:10

i prob my source sweeney

18:13

lupus low level

18:15

the woman don't they

18:16

hello to i'm professor emeritus

18:19

spiritual physics at the university

18:21

of sussex when it before

18:24

what did you get your degree

18:26

don't be i got my first

18:28

degree lox sweeney they

18:30

give them away go me i

18:33

have have from kill tech swedish

18:36

in theoretical physics don't

18:39

be a theoretical physics

18:41

of my supervisor was murray

18:43

go man who won the

18:45

nobel prize and invented

18:48

quarks then

18:50

he cracked open a can spit fire

18:52

been

18:54

norman don't the

18:55

that is golf professor

18:58

was an expert witness for marina

19:00

litvinenko the public inquiry

19:03

into aspens poisoning the

19:05

suitcase a fool nine years

19:08

that a he was assassinated because

19:10

the british government considers good relations

19:13

with the kremlin the be more important

19:16

the investigation the killing the

19:18

british citizen the weapon

19:20

of mass destruction the

19:23

biggest mystery was how come the doctors

19:26

the not work out what has happened to litvinenko

19:29

his hair falling out

19:32

skyn falling off a horrible

19:34

way to die but common symptoms

19:37

of radioactive poisoning

19:39

they tested his blood with a geiger counter

19:42

the radiation i

19:44

ask professor norman domain what

19:46

happened nothing

19:49

there was no reading

19:50

so it wasn't radiation

19:52

no

19:53

it was radiation but it

19:55

wasn't radiation which was detectable

19:59

i target

19:59

two

20:01

the you countess exactly kinds of radiation

20:04

the fact is nearly all the time

20:06

gamma

20:07

the beach

20:09

there is a third kind

20:12

for radiation

20:15

that the geiger counter cannot

20:17

detect

20:18

the russian poison factory

20:20

the pulled off a senior sli clever

20:22

trick it wasn't the kind of radiation

20:25

that people normally think about

20:28

then someone smart worked it

20:30

out britain is a bit rubbish

20:33

in many ways it rains too much

20:35

the food is grim breakfast that

20:37

we do love of puzzle

20:40

sherlock holmes who are a silly hat

20:42

hundred superhuman powers of deception

20:45

but he was very very british

20:48

then someone a bit like the residents

20:50

of two hundred and twenty one be baker

20:52

street cracked the puzzle

20:55

by doing so

20:56

box kremlin

20:59

the person or more likely that

21:01

seem to solve the litvinenko

21:03

poison problem works in aldermaston

21:06

britain's nuclear bomb factory embark

21:08

show

21:08

professor don't be explained to the doctors

21:11

university college hospital thought

21:13

this is strange

21:15

it looks like radiation but we

21:17

can't measure the radiation

21:19

then they send the samples from litvinenko

21:22

body fluids so aldermaston

21:24

they did some tests looking for

21:26

particular nuclear decay

21:28

they found to have a radiation

21:31

of a particular energy and also

21:33

gamma radiation which was much

21:35

weaker the to results

21:38

that's the only one finding the

21:41

identified the isotope is polonium

21:43

to ten

21:45

can you bully pillow near them to ten in

21:47

the show in the long suffering

21:49

from

21:50

no

21:52

the thing about poison the

21:54

murder weapon

21:55

he's really can tell you something about

21:57

the poisonous more than you might say

22:00

hello noom is a radioactive element which

22:03

the brilliant physicist marie curie first

22:05

discovered in named after a home

22:07

country poland radioactive

22:10

elements of different isotopes so

22:12

there isn't polonium and polonium and six

22:15

and two hundred and one

22:18

think of isotopes like salad dressings

22:21

thousand island honey mustard garlic

22:23

polonium to tennis

22:25

like garlic is very distinctive

22:28

no to dose you see kill

22:31

litvinenko was extraordinarily

22:33

high don't be said he

22:35

swallowed an astonishing twenty

22:37

six point five micrograms

22:39

don't be his some

22:41

of his own detective work concluded

22:45

definitively put the polonium

22:47

to ten which kills that bernanke i could

22:49

only have come from the oven god nuclear

22:51

reactor in the city of several the

22:54

hundred and sixty miles southeast of

22:56

moscow

22:58

the way if this is triggering lord

23:00

of the rings flashbacks i'm not making names

23:02

like oven garden sorrow va

23:05

nowhere else makes the polonium to ten

23:07

garlic flavor if you like by

23:10

the necessary bucketload the

23:13

exquisite curiosity

23:15

the professor taught me through the different steps

23:18

which led to the killer copper first

23:21

he said my aunt nuclear

23:23

reactor in the urals irradiated

23:25

bismuth the metal knows the

23:27

ancients a sister

23:29

that and ten

23:31

the radioactive bismuth was

23:33

then transported to the oven god reactor

23:35

in sorrow

23:37

then converted into polonium to ten next

23:40

some kind of russian state poison fat

23:42

free convert is it from metal

23:44

to soluble they're good end up

23:46

and a cup of tea

23:48

oh sure are you this last

23:51

professor dummy ninety

23:53

nine point nine point nine

23:55

the nines on this if you like

23:58

the profit owns his spit

23:59

hi the

24:01

the shouldn't

24:02

softly spoken

24:04

the woman don't the the hero

24:06

of our time

24:09

the russian seaters said so they had deployed

24:12

the ultimate stealth poison

24:14

they were wrong about that

24:17

once the british scientists work out it was

24:19

polonium to ten then following

24:21

the trail of the poisonous was

24:23

like following a burglars footsteps

24:26

in the snow

24:27

there were free prime suspects

24:29

for the poisoning all of whom

24:32

live and and co in the afternoon and

24:34

early evening before he fell ill

24:36

there are mario's carmela around

24:38

the loopy italian intelligence and this

24:41

com conspiracy theories

24:43

the goes to a sushi bar with litvinenko

24:45

on piccadilly them to russians

24:48

android lugovoi and dmitri

24:50

kovtun

24:51

there in town to the game between also and

24:53

c sk moscow

24:55

they're on the gym the nato

24:58

has a cop

24:58

we're

25:00

all bbc panorama program how

25:03

to poison the spy i followed

25:05

the polonium to ten frail in

25:07

january two thousand and seven lunchtime

25:11

the first of november two thousand and six live

25:13

in encode catches the hundred and thirty four

25:15

bus into sound

25:18

no trace of polonium on his tickets

25:20

the boss so

25:23

clean the issue sushi

25:25

bar piccadilly contaminated

25:28

but no polonium were litvinenko

25:31

and scar mls it

25:32

that's all

25:34

the normal scott my

25:36

little red herring then

25:38

the trial

25:39

those backwards in time

25:42

two weeks before on the sixteenth of

25:44

october lugovoi once a kgb

25:47

officer now a millionaire and his friend

25:49

dmitri custom a puma some

25:51

tunes kgb agent a saying

25:54

saying parks hotel in knightsbridge

25:56

the rooms the the hotel was tested for polonium

25:59

the

25:59

though

26:01

contaminate

26:03

the balloon him trail begins to shoot

26:06

see sushi bar in piccadilly is one

26:08

of litvinenko swans during

26:11

the october chip lugovoi and cost

26:13

to meet live and and co for lunch had a sushi

26:15

bar and piccadilly

26:18

the restaurant is contaminated

26:20

spinoza the same seats which

26:22

keremela that been anchor would use two

26:24

weeks later

26:26

gary miller

26:27

the red hundred

26:29

on the twenty fifth of october lugovoi

26:32

return to london and check center the sheraton

26:34

park lane hotel the meat

26:36

sullivan and co two or three times during

26:38

this

26:39

one room at the hotel is less a radioactive

26:42

mess in january

26:44

two thousand and seven know just one

26:46

room but a whole section of the eighth floor

26:48

corridors so booted up

26:51

the twenty eighth of october two thousand

26:53

six lugovoi splice

26:55

back to russia on british airways

26:57

flight t b m

26:59

w x

27:02

then you guessed it the

27:04

one seat on the plane

27:06

the combination

27:08

the same day kovtun arrives in hamburg

27:10

and ceases children a total a baby

27:13

who live with his ex wife they

27:16

are contamination

27:18

the going cove so next meet with live

27:21

in and kill on the day his poisoned

27:23

the for thirty pm the pine

27:25

bar the millennium hotel there's

27:27

an hour after the sushi bar

27:29

this is when the polonium trial

27:31

it's really hard lugo

27:34

boy and co sooner drinking with a third russian

27:37

which is love socal income

27:39

the system for the day

27:41

the relaxing ahead of the game

27:43

ibn and co doesn't touch alcohol

27:45

the always have a cop

27:48

the arena told me a millennium

27:50

hotel saturn soulmates he

27:52

met lugovoi ensuring dismissing

27:54

he drank tea

27:55

then he said that he was already served on the table

27:58

and he just took the scope of

27:59

the

28:00

then didn't finish it all

28:02

later he said the key wasn't

28:04

very tasty the

28:07

polonium trial across london proves

28:09

that litvinenko see had been laced with

28:12

polonium to ten

28:14

those was massive

28:16

we estimated four billion barrels

28:18

of radiation the

28:20

normal level in the body

28:22

just twenty bathrooms

28:25

the com combination trail the pine bar

28:27

is astounding

28:29

the can't be contained the t contaminated

28:31

the seven bizarre for the hotel

28:33

he took the cup away washed it wiped it

28:36

says it out for other guess contaminated

28:39

the pine bar itself contaminated and

28:42

we're so close to and a half months old

28:45

contamination isn't necessarily

28:47

easy fool because alpha particles

28:50

don't jump about the only

28:52

full if you ingest them the

28:54

long term risks

28:56

the not known lugo boy

28:58

and co to go to the much

29:00

seats to the emirates stadium

29:03

then terminated

29:05

everything points to not one but multiple

29:08

attempts to kill that bernanke

29:10

the polonium trail mix lugovoi

29:12

and costume prime suspects for the assassination

29:16

they deny it

29:17

barbara

29:19

you can make the argument that a rich man

29:21

like lugovoi

29:22

got hold of the polonium to ten

29:25

under the counter as it were

29:27

i asked progressive though rifles whether

29:30

it could be an oligarch or another actor

29:32

in the russian secret state rachel

29:34

replied you

29:36

think grass you have to totally ignore

29:38

the way the russian state already dictatorship

29:41

works nothing important

29:43

happens that anyone outside

29:46

that might have international consequence without

29:48

the direct orders and consent of

29:50

the head of state the more

29:52

when it would in north korea or in

29:54

china these loose canons

29:57

have been eliminated in russia he

29:59

does not

29:59

the

30:01

businessmen might order another businessman

30:03

to be killed but it's more likely

30:06

that he will report him to the tax authorities

30:08

and they will excuses well

30:11

the murder with a radioactive substance

30:14

which can only come from one source which

30:16

cost millions even for the state

30:18

to isolate to bring to pack to

30:21

train the assassins

30:22

it's inconceivable that

30:25

this wasn't done on person's

30:27

direct orders

30:30

the wrong panorama program i went off

30:32

to moscow and st petersburg asking

30:35

anyone who talk to me about my favorite

30:37

question can you buy polonium

30:39

suzanne initial then

30:42

girlfriend to make a new some later my

30:44

wife later my ex but with so

30:46

pals popped into moscow

30:49

the do some shopping if anyone was following

30:51

her she plays plays

30:53

beautifully

30:55

the secretly ship home footage

30:58

one night we sang land of hope

31:00

and glory in our room in the hotel

31:02

you krajina though me what never

31:04

dream of doing in and

31:07

hundred from a bid fool and i go

31:10

to interview questions or powerful

31:12

press officer

31:13

dimitri peskov in the kremlin

31:17

bbc current affairs never has enough money

31:19

to do things

31:20

story cool i do this interview with a freelance

31:23

camera operator but no staff

31:25

producer

31:26

the be honest when i wrote jump

31:29

to the kremlin's mighty red wolves the

31:31

through a gate

31:33

the dual close quietly behind

31:35

me

31:36

my heart is slusser little

31:39

i schools got a suggestion of a mullet

31:42

those who centipede for a mustache

31:44

there's a row of a mournful way

31:47

the yes seeing a full moon football manager

31:50

of say

31:51

the down table rover immune noises

31:53

the english is fluent

31:56

softly spoken he

31:58

is still lesson

32:00

cyber

32:02

lie is so beautifully

32:05

put it tabasco fit litvinenko had

32:07

blogs that put him was a p to file and

32:09

then he dies

32:12

in did kiss the boy on the summer

32:14

this person a pita file last

32:18

though

32:19

the tesco flatly you

32:22

could tell from his eyes

32:24

the he did not like the question

32:26

one little bit the

32:29

bbc cut out that question to

32:31

be fine the did not think the

32:33

live in and co had proved his claim

32:35

and i didn't have a big rao would bbc

32:37

management about that at it then

32:40

no

32:41

what

32:42

i started the book blowing up russia

32:44

by litvinenko and so stunned states

32:47

in which puts him was accused outright

32:49

being behind the moscow apartment bombings

32:51

then the course he gets poison

32:54

in london that story

32:56

true as basket the

32:59

reply

32:59

no

33:01

it is not true

33:02

what he wrote in that book blaming poussin

33:04

the fsb for blowing up these

33:06

apartments in russia has nothing to

33:09

do with reality

33:10

that's me i mean again in my personal

33:13

opinion this is lead say

33:15

a product

33:17

oh been ill brain

33:19

that's good laugh quietly i don't

33:22

know a proper english words that

33:24

sweeney

33:25

sick brian

33:27

the scope us sick brain

33:29

bring on minutes

33:31

really mentally ill

33:33

the skull well in my

33:35

understanding only immensely ill

33:37

person can think about russian

33:39

government

33:40

blowing up homeless of his own people

33:44

marina live in a coach told me i

33:47

can't say exactly that putting to

33:49

sasha that i can

33:51

say to push who is behind everything

33:53

that happens in russia i

33:56

put that to peskov and he replied and

33:58

i answer directly

33:59

russia has not done that

34:02

and it is a

34:05

the even think about that

34:07

sweeney and she's alive for

34:09

saying so

34:11

the school in these words

34:13

yes

34:15

sweeney she's alive

34:17

the scope yes

34:20

he says that russia has kill sasha

34:23

he's alive

34:24

these words

34:27

three

34:27

she say fishy

34:29

the movie's gonna happen to because

34:32

she's a christian

34:34

this

34:36

i hope for his police's effective

34:38

she's living in london

34:41

why didn't you ask british authorities about

34:43

her being safe for unsafe she's

34:46

not living not living

34:50

panorama program get the last word

34:53

the little anchors with

34:55

him something worse can

34:57

happen again because list

34:59

of these people is not finished yet it

35:01

was the second person who was killed on this

35:03

list by polonium to tense okay

35:06

what would i used to kill another person atomic

35:09

bomb could you tell me please

35:11

what's next the

35:14

answer to a question the

35:16

chemical weapon of mass destruction

35:18

that i'm getting ahead of the story

35:22

the assassination of litvinenko go

35:25

professor norman don't be thinking for

35:27

the russian poison factory when nasim first

35:29

use polonium to ten against

35:32

targets in britain

35:33

they would have most likely tried it back

35:35

in russia first

35:38

he looked into the strain staff of a church

35:40

since i so let's her islam or

35:43

who is serving a nine year sentence in prison

35:45

in moscow when in april

35:47

two thousand and four

35:49

humming horrible happened

35:51

my guy of the form of free

35:54

chechen foreign minister told me

35:56

the night before islam of was you to

35:58

be transferred from his holding so the moscow

36:01

to the prison where he would serve the rest of

36:03

his sentence

36:04

the had to businesses

36:06

this be offices

36:08

they tried to turn him

36:09

the refused to work for russian intelligence

36:13

the drank tea together next

36:16

the was in transit to the main prison

36:19

the started feeling very ill

36:22

they took him to the nearest hospital and

36:24

volgograd

36:27

islam a lawyer described his clients

36:29

condition

36:30

it cannot speak or move has become

36:32

absolutely bulls lost his hair

36:35

his beard and his eyebrows his

36:37

skin is peeling off from his head in

36:39

his hands

36:41

the guy of said islam of symptoms

36:44

with the same as litvinenko is but more acute

36:46

that she died in ten days

36:49

sasha litvinenko lasted twenty three

36:52

twenty four days because he was in hospital

36:55

in the doctors were fighting for his

36:57

life the

36:59

second poisoning but struck professor

37:01

don't be was that of roman zappa the

37:03

old st petersburg gangster who the

37:05

story goes once gave a stolen

37:08

emerald to lewd miller poussin back

37:10

in the day the pope

37:13

is known all the deputy mayor secrets

37:15

had repeatedly taken the black cash

37:17

from the grateful mob the handed

37:20

over to push him

37:21

us intelligence analysts pool doyle

37:23

recourses settled in his partner big

37:25

to solid have had a security company

37:28

called baltic escorts

37:30

the ninety nine she's they got the city contract

37:33

to provide personal protection services

37:35

for mass object and his deputy poussin

37:39

zola to have followed putin to moscow

37:41

was his bodyguard

37:42

there's reason to the pinnacle of power the

37:45

sheath of poussin sprite or in god

37:47

the rose guardia or national guard

37:50

there's a member of the russian

37:52

national security council several

37:55

was presents poo poo since inaugural

37:57

ceremony is president then

37:59

in the autumn of two thousand four

38:02

something went wrong

38:03

the

38:05

eleventh of september two thousand and

38:07

four several , colleagues

38:10

as a local fsb office where

38:12

, a cup of tea fools

38:15

on well the symptoms

38:17

being vomiting diarrhea a

38:19

sudden drop of white blood cells

38:22

half also

38:25

skyn bristol

38:27

then he died professor

38:30

norman don't me drew my attention to the following

38:33

free russians who seem to have died as a result

38:36

of radiation poisoning or yuri

38:38

zhirkov she can lead to islam

38:40

of and the roman seven

38:43

and in all of the cases

38:45

it look like radiation that but no radiation

38:47

was found there's like most

38:50

of the time litvinenko the

38:52

the official russian verdict cause

38:55

unknown that was what

38:57

person and co wanted in the case of litvinenko

39:00

they wanted to show

39:02

they could assassinate without leaving any

39:04

trace

39:06

they did work three times before the

39:09

free russians we can't be one hundred percent

39:11

sure but it was polonium to ten because

39:13

nobody did the tests which held him us

39:16

and the

39:18

professors logic is good the

39:21

russians would not use a weapon

39:23

of this kind against such a high

39:25

profile targets in london without

39:28

having test is it beforehand

39:31

one year after litvinenko it

39:33

got pretty citizenship by the time

39:35

he was assassinated died

39:38

in agony

39:40

the british government responded by expelling

39:42

for russian diplomat

39:45

this research a feeble slap on the risk

39:48

yes ward this wasn't a last

39:50

kremlin sponsored assassination using

39:53

weapons of mass destruction mass destruction soil

39:57

i ask professor norman don't make study

39:59

for the bridges states has been too slow

40:02

to join the dots

40:04

don't be replied

40:05

absolutely they didn't there

40:08

was so many russian millionaire spending

40:10

money in london

40:12

i don't think there is anything else

40:15

the us intelligence analysts pool joy

40:17

believes that litvinenko cooling poo since

40:19

a paedophile was the tipping

40:21

point there were many people

40:24

the wanted to get rid of live an anchor but

40:26

, you look at the way they killed him it was absolutely

40:29

horrible basically his

40:31

insides melted from the polonium who

40:34

is something that was meant not to be

40:36

discovered the

40:38

almost got away with it those

40:42

working hypothesis is that litvinenko

40:44

had sources inside the kgb who

40:47

knew that when poussin was waiting for assignments

40:49

overseas

40:51

there was some issue about his sex life

40:53

hanging over him

40:55

they've been encode believe the issue with

40:57

poussin was a pita five joy

41:00

his another theory i

41:03

think that the evidence was pretty some

41:05

type of sexual experience

41:07

that with children

41:09

that will young men

41:11

not necessarily game

41:13

maybe that is supported to forcefully

41:16

with him

41:17

i suspect is a power thing because

41:19

, be new this so rather than put him overseas

41:22

in the west to decide is a

41:24

ship him to east germany

41:26

i find it hard to believe it was

41:28

confirmed that he was a pita five putting

41:31

was agreed to file he would not have been

41:33

posted to east germany

41:37

joy bullies with the state categorically

41:40

that putting this gay would be wrong

41:42

the overstatement

41:43

the human to say but she's bisexual may

41:46

be too strong i don't

41:48

know whether it is a real attraction which

41:50

bisexuality implies war

41:53

is is a motivation to exercise power

41:55

of a wizard individual there

41:58

are indications that poussin when this young

42:01

may experience this abuse himself

42:04

maybe this behavior

42:06

partly bench

42:07

i've heard of instances that indicates

42:10

to me that he's more motivated

42:12

by power control

42:14

then of orientation

42:16

everyone including vladimir putin is

42:19

entitled to determine their own sexual

42:21

orientation the problem arises

42:23

in the country where the president whom

42:25

some sources suggest is bisexual

42:29

the essentially criminalized homosexuality

42:33

what happens next and the narrative

42:35

of people who dares to make public

42:38

what they knew about that i'm a boost

42:40

in private life

42:42

makes ones blood run cold

42:45

oil says it out for me i

42:49

heard about the death of alexander litvinenko

42:51

it a dinner party i was having at my home

42:53

on thanksgiving

42:55

we receive the cool

42:57

in my home for thanksgiving meal

43:00

gen kalugin and his wife

43:02

former foreign minister of a former soviet

43:05

republic

43:06

the prominent russian prison

43:09

when we found out about alexander's tests

43:11

we discuss what has to be done

43:13

that's when i decided to work on a story

43:16

that could illustrator firm belief

43:19

that the russian government murdered him

43:21

the most horrible means possible

43:24

that's what brought me

43:25

the nbc take on

43:28

doyle in general kalugin took part

43:31

in the n b c documentary the

43:33

gas in early two thousand seven when

43:35

not to conspiracy theories was so doing

43:38

the rounds about how litvinenko had died

43:40

the oil told me the russians

43:42

were putting out a loss of this information related

43:45

to his death but it was barisal

43:47

ski who'd killed him that m i five was

43:49

sick and tired of him and they killed

43:51

him there there was a lot of confusion

43:54

about who was responsible there

43:56

was even was version from the russians as he

43:58

killed himself in the recently with polonium

44:01

i know this to be true

44:03

because i'd reported on bbc panorama

44:05

program

44:06

conclusion

44:08

the crystal clear that

44:10

litvinenko had been murdered by

44:12

the russian secret state with a nuclear

44:14

poison

44:16

but many london and washington d

44:18

c

44:19

was skeptical

44:20

afraid or to alarms to join the black

44:22

dots

44:23

having been to resign and chechen are

44:25

in two thousand having known anna

44:27

politkovskaya before she was murdered

44:29

on person's birthday i no longer

44:32

gave the kremlin any benefit

44:34

of the doubt whatsoever

44:38

the nbc dateline took the same line

44:41

that linden and co had been murdered by the

44:43

russian secret say

44:45

someone else who to posts in the n b c dateline

44:48

show was a times reporter daniel

44:50

mcgrory

44:52

the new johnny from my time on the roads the

44:54

observer is a war reporter

44:57

the was a brave and good journalist nicknamed

45:00

mcgrory the story

45:02

given nbc dateline an interview

45:05

in which he said litvinenko had been killed

45:08

the state sponsored assassination

45:12

five days after he recorded that interview

45:14

the was found dead

45:17

cool told me

45:18

when i mention that danny had died before the airing

45:21

of the program in the united states

45:23

one particular friend said

45:26

you i should be very

45:28

careful they said look

45:31

nothing's gonna happen to me

45:34

the bridges inquest from the mccrory had

45:36

died of natural causes a brain

45:38

hemorrhage though these his family

45:41

agreed with the mcgrory

45:43

family said that they were completely satisfied

45:45

by the colonists assessments that

45:47

he died of natural causes

45:50

that their beloved husband and father

45:52

was not the victim of murder

45:54

the allegation been experienced

45:56

stillness was executed by a hostile

45:59

foreign power his own country is

46:01

extraordinarily serious it

46:04

would true it would have profound

46:06

implications not just for our family for

46:09

investigative journalists in this country the

46:12

international diplomatic relations

46:14

no one would be

46:16

more concerned by this been

46:18

dunno mcgrory family and friends

46:21

however we do not believe the allegation

46:24

that dunno mcgrory was assassinated

46:26

by russian agents is any basis

46:28

instant people in the media

46:30

politics and the wider world to think

46:32

very carefully before repeating these

46:35

allegations as fuck launching

46:37

inquiries on the basis of evidence

46:40

is is flimsy at best

46:43

i ask pool joy

46:46

danny mcgrory was killed

46:48

who died of natural causes

46:51

told me

46:52

well

46:53

i don't know it's certainly

46:56

an open question i don't think

46:58

it was pursued in a vigorous

47:00

way the determine that question

47:02

definitively the

47:04

russian intelligence services with their

47:07

laboratories may have perfected

47:09

a number of poison that could have caused the brain

47:11

hemorrhage if you don't so from that

47:13

perspective you'll never find

47:15

a subtle answer to the question could

47:18

you been poisoned

47:20

my personal experience of the quality

47:22

the investigation by british coroner's

47:25

not gray

47:27

too often i send them to be to

47:29

under resourced or to establishment

47:31

minded to place much confidence

47:33

in their findings

47:35

that i cannot provide specific evidence

47:38

that game to say the corners verdict all

47:40

the families believe in it they're

47:42

good people

47:44

they're bright there is always

47:46

a danger and describing an event

47:48

to a cause without sound

47:50

evidence in philosophy a

47:53

cool this a corollary

47:55

those a consequence

47:57

what really happened to danny mcgraw

48:01

the be honest

48:03

i don't

48:05

who toil in his extended interview

48:07

with nbc dateline before the at

48:09

it gave him his belief of the tipping

48:12

point was alexander's allegation

48:14

that person was person was file in the kremlin

48:19

that line

48:20

cause out in the broadcast

48:23

the oil things

48:24

the russians got hold of a transcript

48:27

this extended interview

48:30

camels explain to me exactly how he believes

48:32

that is the case but

48:34

he is a solid an informed theory continued

48:39

four days after the broadcast

48:41

when i pulled into the driveway

48:43

in darkness in the rain

48:46

it was ambushed by two men waiting

48:48

in the bushes for me i

48:50

confronted the first one but i

48:52

was attacked from behind i

48:55

managed to neutralize the first one after

48:57

he hit me in the head from behind immediately

49:01

turned around faced him and counterattack

49:03

i took him to the ground

49:05

and he said the of a guy i did not

49:07

see shoot him

49:11

the oil was shot by nine millimeter

49:13

around

49:14

which went through his colon and bladder

49:17

they try to another shot the head

49:19

the gun jammed then his

49:21

dog all two hundred pounds

49:23

of him went for the attackers they

49:26

flat joy was

49:28

on a breathing tube to thirty days

49:31

i'd seven operations

49:33

the free and a half years

49:37

the man who try to kill him

49:39

that never been caught

49:46

to listen more i'm afraid you'd

49:48

go to get the audiobook killer

49:50

in the kremlin read by me from

49:53

audible apple books or

49:55

google play or other audio

49:57

retailers the you very

49:59

much for listening to this bonus episode

50:02

of taking on poussin to the series

50:04

proper the production in london was my choking

50:07

blade the executive producer

50:09

was overseas or with other production

50:11

by other team it was mixed

50:13

and sound designed by alex boot felix

50:16

with original music by thomas

50:18

you thomas chance thank you for

50:20

listening and thank you for

50:23

coming along for the ride take

50:25

care

50:26

i'm from london in

50:29

case