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5:44

About 100 miles west of Yellowstone

5:47

National Park, and just

5:49

across Wyoming's state border, is

5:51

the mid-sized and very

5:54

typical western American city of

5:56

Idaho Falls, Idaho.

5:59

If you've ever driven through that part of the United

6:02

States or just about anywhere in America,

6:05

Idaho Falls would probably feel pretty

6:07

similar to you.

6:09

Among the modest residential areas

6:11

and mostly white population,

6:15

Idaho Falls is pretty much a collection

6:17

of well-known fast food restaurants,

6:19

gas stations with convenience stores,

6:23

and car dealerships. You

6:25

know,

6:26

like most of America. Kinda

6:29

boring when you really think about it.

6:32

As for the crime rate, Idaho

6:34

Falls doesn't have much to

6:36

brag about.

6:38

The city has considerably more crime

6:40

than the US national average, which

6:43

is one of the reasons why they have a

6:45

state police force as well as a local

6:47

police department.

6:49

Crime and policing in this city have been

6:51

handled by these two departments for

6:53

many years.

6:55

Back in January of 1997,

6:58

several detectives at the

7:00

Idaho Falls Police Department were hard

7:02

at work,

7:04

questioning a young man named

7:07

Christopher Tapp. At

7:24

the time of this interview, Christopher

7:27

Tapp was 20 years old, and

7:30

he was mostly known among

7:32

his friends as a somewhat

7:34

goofy, fun-loving, couch-surfing

7:37

pothead. You know the type.

7:40

To just about everyone else, Chris was

7:43

known as a river rat.

7:45

Running directly through the center of Idaho

7:47

Falls is the Snake River,

7:49

a major multi-state

7:51

river that earns its name thanks to

7:53

its S-like shape.

7:56

Back in the late 1990s, many Idaho

7:59

Falls teenagers

7:59

and young adults used to meet up at specific

8:02

places near this river.

8:05

They socialized, drank beer,

8:08

smoked weed, and

8:09

did all kinds of things, including

8:12

deciding what kind of trouble they planned to

8:14

get into on

8:15

any given night. To

8:18

the locals, these young adults became known

8:20

as the River Rats,

8:23

and Chris Tapp

8:24

was one of them. Yet,

8:27

when the police questioned Chris

8:29

in January of 1997, they weren't interested in his riverside

8:34

activities. Instead,

8:38

they had questions about a very serious

8:40

crime that involved a young woman

8:43

named Angie Dodge. Angie

8:46

Dodge, Jr. On June 13, 1996, Angie

8:49

Dodge was found dead in her apartment on

8:51

I Street in Idaho Falls, Idaho.

8:54

Angie was partially dressed and had multiple incision

8:57

wounds and lacerations on her neck,

8:59

severing all major muscles, arteries,

9:02

and veins of the neck.

9:04

This incision nearly decapitated

9:07

Angie. There was also a stab

9:09

wound to Angie's chest and breast area

9:11

that entered the chest wall. Angie's

9:13

death was ruled a homicide, and it

9:15

was determined based on the state of undress

9:18

and the semen on Angie's body that she had

9:20

been raped prior to the murder. The

9:23

stab wounds on Angie's right hand showed that

9:25

she had tried to defend herself

9:26

from her attacker. Angie

9:29

Dodge was born in December

9:31

of 1977, and throughout her short life she towered

9:37

over her friends. By

9:39

age 16, Angie was six

9:41

feet tall and was often

9:43

ridiculed because of her height.

9:46

Because of this, Angie developed some thick skin

9:49

and became somewhat of a defender against

9:52

bullies.

9:53

Angie was known to protect her friends and stand

9:56

up for them

9:57

if she saw they were being bullied. In

10:00

other aspects, Angie was a typical

10:02

teenager and pretty well liked.

10:05

Like Christopher Tapp, she was also

10:08

known as a river rat,

10:10

but she never had any issues with the law,

10:13

nor was she known to be a troublemaker.

10:17

In 1995, Angie

10:18

graduated from Idaho Falls

10:21

High School with honors.

10:23

She then continued her education at

10:25

Idaho State University for

10:27

a short time. By 1996,

10:31

Angie had moved out of her parents' house into

10:33

a two-story apartment, but

10:36

she was only there for three weeks

10:38

when something horrific happened

10:41

to her. In June of that

10:43

year, two of Angie's coworkers

10:45

found Angie dead on

10:48

her bedroom floor after becoming

10:50

concerned

10:51

that she didn't show up for work.

10:54

Angie had been brutally

10:57

stabbed to death. She

10:59

was only 18 years old.

11:02

After Idaho Falls police investigators

11:05

arrived on the scene, it was determined

11:08

that Angie had also been raped

11:10

just before she was killed.

11:13

As expected, when this

11:15

news reached Angie's family, they

11:18

took it pretty hard, and

11:20

none

11:21

more so than Angie's mom.

11:24

As Angie's mom and her other

11:26

family members mourned, Idaho

11:28

Falls homicide detectives

11:43

worked

11:46

the case.

11:48

For them, this was a big deal.

11:51

The murders didn't typically

11:53

happen in the area,

11:55

and the department was not accustomed to investigating

11:57

such a

11:58

complex and high-profile.

11:59

profile crime.

12:02

Nonetheless, after some preliminary

12:04

evidence was collected and several

12:07

police interviews were conducted,

12:10

the detectives

12:11

formed a theory.

12:13

They believed that multiple people

12:15

participated in the crime and

12:18

that Angie's death was not caused

12:21

by a lone killer.

12:23

Science, however, was telling them a

12:25

different story.

12:27

When the autopsy was performed, semen

12:30

was found on Angie's body. DNA

12:34

testing revealed that this semen belonged

12:37

to only one person. Unfortunately,

12:40

the DNA did not match anyone

12:43

in the existing criminal databases.

12:46

Investigators also took DNA

12:48

samples from dozens of potential suspects,

12:51

but

12:52

none came back as a match.

12:56

By December of 1996, six

12:58

months had passed since

13:01

Angie was killed

13:02

and Idaho Falls detectives were no

13:04

closer to solving this crime than

13:07

they were on the day that Angie died.

13:09

The leads had

13:12

started to dry up

13:14

and the pressure to solve this crime was only

13:16

building.

13:18

Then, in January of the following

13:20

year, police seemingly

13:23

got the tip they needed.

13:27

About 400 miles south of Angie's

13:29

hometown

13:30

in Eli, Nevada,

13:32

a young man was arrested for

13:35

raping a woman

13:36

at knife point. That

13:39

man was 20-year-old Ben

13:41

Hobbs and shortly

13:44

before his arrest, Ben

13:46

was a resident of Idaho Falls.

13:50

Even more interesting, Ben was a

13:52

river rat and was pretty

13:54

close with Angie Dodge.

13:56

So close, in fact, that he even attended

13:59

her funeral. When questioned, Ben admitted

14:01

that he had visited Angie's apartment once, but

14:03

that

14:14

visit

14:21

was days before she

14:23

was killed.

14:24

While sticking to that story,

14:27

Ben adamantly denied having any

14:29

involvement with Angie's murder.

14:32

Yet, when the police questioned Ben's

14:34

good friend,

14:36

Christopher Tapp,

14:38

they were told a

14:41

story,

15:09

and that he was saying it. He said, how'd you do it? Did

15:11

you fuck her in a row? And he said

15:15

he killed her. Initially Chris

15:17

Tapp denied having any knowledge

15:19

of Angie's murder, but after

15:22

the cops pressed him, he eventually confessed

15:24

that Ben Hobbs admitted to

15:26

the crime.

15:28

As detectives demanded more details,

15:31

Chris became noticeably emotional

15:35

and upset.

16:00

Chris denied having any knowledge of Ben's

16:02

motives, but again, he eventually walked

16:04

back

16:09

that

16:13

statement.

16:14

According to Chris,

16:16

the reason that Ben killed Angie was

16:18

because Angie

16:19

had told Ben's wife that Ben

16:21

was cheating on her. As

16:24

detectives questioned Chris, they clearly began to suspect that

16:26

he knew a lot more about

16:41

this

16:48

murder than he was letting on,

16:51

and that he may have even

16:54

witnessed it.

17:47

In an attempt to get him to tell

17:49

the whole truth,

17:51

Chris was offered an immunity

17:53

agreement.

17:55

This agreement protected Chris from prosecution

17:57

with the conditions that Chris told

18:00

the truth and that he didn't rape

18:03

Angie or participate in the murder

18:05

at all.

18:07

Chris accepted this agreement

18:10

and with his protection in place,

18:13

he admitted that he was with

18:15

Ben when Angie was killed.

18:18

According to Chris, in the early morning

18:20

hours of June 13th, 1996, he

18:24

and Ben were smoking pot and driving

18:27

around Idaho Falls when Ben suggested

18:30

that they pay Angie a visit.

18:33

Apparently, Ben wanted to confront

18:36

Angie about the things she revealed

18:38

to Ben's wife, namely

18:40

his infidelity.

18:49

Chris

18:52

explained that Ben convinced Angie to

18:55

let them into her apartment,

19:10

and not long after they walked inside,

19:13

Ben and Angie started

19:15

arguing. Chris

19:44

According to Chris, the argument between

19:46

Ben and Angie turned

19:49

into a shouting match.

19:51

And before Chris could even realize what

19:53

was happening, Ben

19:55

pulled a knife from his pocket and

19:58

began cutting Angie. which

20:00

caused her to fall to the ground.

20:22

Chris claimed that after Angie fell to

20:24

the floor, Ben climbed on top of her

20:26

and continued stabbing her.

20:29

Shocked and terrified by what he

20:31

was seeing, Chris decided

20:33

to flee the apartment.

20:35

Chris explained that he ran for several

20:37

blocks until he

20:39

got winded.

20:41

Ben decided to go back to the apartment to

20:43

check on Angie.

21:04

After

21:11

seven months of investigation,

21:14

the police finally seemed to have

21:16

what they needed.

21:18

A witness to the murder.

21:21

Armed with Chris Tapp's confession,

21:24

Idaho Falls detectives traveled to

21:26

Nevada, where Ben Hobbs

21:28

was sitting in jail for allegedly raping

21:31

a different woman. When

21:33

the detectives questioned Ben, they

21:35

didn't mince words.

21:59

As far as the night that Angie

22:02

was killed, what can you tell

22:04

us what your activity was, where

22:12

were you at, what were you doing? The

22:16

only thing you can remember about the night Angie was killed was

22:19

I was down at the river and

22:21

I saw Angie. I didn't say

22:23

a word to her. In response

22:25

to the detective's accusations, Ben

22:27

claimed that he had no ill will towards

22:30

Angie and that he had no reason

22:33

to hurt her. He explained

22:35

that he was unaware of anything that

22:37

Angie may have said to his wife and

22:40

that he didn't have anything to do with Angie's

22:42

murder. Why would Chris start trying to

22:45

find you for this? I don't know, it's a

22:47

good question. Something

22:49

out of it. That's something

22:51

I'd like to know. Maybe

22:54

he's trying to get out of what he, maybe he's

22:56

guilty of something that he's not. He

22:59

didn't kill her? I don't know if he did or not. I

23:01

don't know who did. All I know

23:03

is I did not kill Angie Dodge.

23:06

At this point, the police were pretty confident

23:08

that they had their man.

23:10

There weren't a whole lot of knife-wielding

23:12

rapists in Idaho Falls after

23:15

all.

23:16

And Ben was sitting in jail for that

23:18

exact same behavior.

23:20

On top of that, Ben couldn't tell the police

23:24

where he was on the night of Angie's

23:26

murder.

23:27

He explained that after he left the river,

23:29

he had no memory of where he went

23:32

or what

23:32

he did. Not

23:35

good. Here's the problem we're having. Number

23:39

one, we've got Chris debating

23:42

to knowing about it and implicating

23:44

you in the offsite as doing it. He's

23:48

got details about what happened. On

23:50

how you did it and what went on. The

23:54

other problem is, is you

23:57

have no alibi to where you're

23:59

at.

23:59

was going on. I will tell

24:02

you we have got DNA that

24:04

will fully convict somebody or

24:07

will eliminate somebody. It's going to eliminate

24:09

my house because I had nothing to do with this.

24:12

Confidently, Ben provided investigators

24:14

with a DNA sample.

24:16

Days later, when the results came

24:19

back, it turned out that neither Ben Hobbs

24:21

nor Chris Tapp

24:23

were a match for the semen

24:25

that was found on Angie's body.

24:28

For detectives, this didn't necessarily

24:31

mean that Ben and Chris weren't involved

24:33

in Angie's murder.

24:35

In fact,

24:36

they were still pretty sure both of them had something

24:38

to do with it.

24:40

The DNA results only suggested that a third

24:42

person

24:43

must have also been involved.

24:46

In order to get to the bottom of this, the detectives

24:49

re-interviewed Chris Tapp. I

24:52

mean, you've done a well of a job you really have,

24:54

Chris, but we're still kind of, apparently

24:57

we're still missing some pieces here. Are

25:00

they big pieces? Yeah, pretty big pieces

25:02

because, like I say, the information

25:04

we just got sounds like there's probably another person

25:06

involved. Was there another

25:08

person that went with you and Ben? No,

25:11

it was just me and Ben. Because

25:13

you only had the person that ever hung out with us was Jarrah.

25:16

So could Jarrah have been there? During

25:19

another round of questioning,

25:21

Chris told the police that when he and

25:24

Ben went to Angie's apartment,

25:26

they weren't alone.

25:28

Also with them was their close friend and

25:30

fellow river rat, 20-year-old

25:32

Jeremy Sargis.

25:35

Naturally, after hearing this, police

25:38

wanted to speak with Jeremy.

25:41

You guys hung around Angie quite

25:43

a bit? To

25:45

me, she wasn't really like a hangout

25:48

friend. I never called her. She never called

25:50

me. But when we saw each other, it was, hey, what's going

25:53

on? With

25:54

Ben, I guess, he didn't know very

25:56

much.

25:59

Hobbs and Chris Tapp all

26:02

knew Angie Dodge,

26:04

but Chris and Ben were a

26:06

little closer to her than Jeremy

26:08

was.

26:10

According to Chris, on the night that all three

26:12

of them went to Angie's apartment,

26:14

things played out pretty much like

26:17

he had originally explained.

26:19

The major difference was that Jeremy

26:21

was also there, and

26:23

Jeremy

26:25

was the one that brought along the murder

26:27

weapon. And so with Jeremy,

26:31

his total involvement in this

26:34

whole thing was what? Little

26:37

less than what I've done. Okay,

26:39

okay, go ahead and a little less than what you've done. Everything

26:42

that you know that he was involved in. Everything

26:45

probably with the knife. Okay.

26:49

Actually, I think it was his knife. Well,

26:51

walk me through it. You know, Angie came down,

26:54

couldn't figure out what the hell all of us were doing there. What

26:56

was the excuse

26:57

or what she? What was

26:59

the excuse? No, what she what she say. You

27:02

know, it was basically

27:04

what the hell you're doing here. Attitude.

27:07

Chris explained that after Angie

27:09

answered the door, all three of them

27:11

went inside her apartment.

27:13

And after a brief argument with Ben,

27:17

Ben stabbed her.

27:19

Then Jeremy and Ben violently raped

27:22

Angie. Now, there's some pretty sick things

27:24

done to her. And we have a pretty dang good idea, you know,

27:26

what what some sick things that happened

27:29

to her. Okay. Apparently,

27:31

you know, they made her do some stuff before before

27:34

she died. Correct. So

27:37

what they make her do, I guess, is

27:39

just for the sex. Okay.

27:41

You saw them forced to have sex. Is that correct?

27:45

Okay, who raped her? I guess

27:48

a little of both.

27:49

Okay, so they're both doing her. Okay.

27:52

I believe that. Mr.

27:55

Ravener, right? Both of them are doing

27:57

her. Okay. So when one

27:59

is on.

27:59

top of her, how

28:02

they rape her. They're

28:04

doing a vagily, they're doing anally. Little

28:09

bulk. There's a little bulk. Who

28:12

was doing her from behind? Cher.

28:16

Cher was doing her from behind. Who

28:19

was doing her in the front then? She

28:22

was Ben. Ben was doing her in the front.

28:25

Who tried to have her do

28:28

the oral sex? Who

28:29

tried to have her give him a blowjob? Cher.

28:33

Cher. So Cher

28:35

was forcing her to give him a

28:38

blowjob, is that correct? Okay.

28:40

Do you recall any of them

28:43

ejaculate in honor? No. Okay.

28:46

Chris further explained that during the rape,

28:49

Ben held a knife against Angie's neck

28:52

and threatened to cut her throat

28:54

unless she gave Jeremy

28:56

oral sex. Angie

28:58

complied, but Ben

29:00

slit her throat anyway.

29:03

Obviously, these accusations were

29:06

pretty extreme,

29:07

but detectives believed they had finally

29:10

gotten the truth out of Chris Tapp.

29:13

Yet when they questioned Jeremy about

29:15

it, Jeremy adamantly

29:18

denied everything. I mean,

29:21

Angie was not a good friend of mine.

29:24

She was not anything

29:26

more than an acquaintance, you know,

29:28

an acquaintance that I know better than maybe neither.

29:30

But I have no reason to have

29:33

a positive or a negative feeling towards her. Okay.

29:36

I have no reason to kill her. Myself,

29:39

and the Grimes, and just about

29:41

everybody working on the case has no doubt that

29:43

you have knowledge of

29:45

the case. Okay. You have not come

29:47

clean with that

29:50

information. Okay. You

29:52

will be arrested. For what?

29:55

You don't have shit on me. You won't have shit on me.

29:57

I'm guaranteeing that right now. You're

30:00

going to arrest me as you think that

30:02

I know something. Well, you know something. What

30:04

are you going to do when you find out? What

30:06

are you going to do

30:08

when you find out that I don't know nothing? Well,

30:10

if that is true, let me go and say, we're sorry

30:12

for putting you on jail. Detectives

30:15

pushed Jeremy pretty hard, but

30:18

he never admitted to anything.

30:20

And just like Ben, he freely offered up

30:23

a DNA sample.

30:25

A few days later, when the results came

30:27

back, investigators were shocked to find

30:30

that the semen on Angie's body was

30:32

not

30:33

a match for Jeremy Sargis.

30:37

At the same time, Jeremy's alibi for the night

30:39

of the murder checked out. He

30:42

was with his girlfriend the entire

30:44

night

30:45

and the next morning. There

30:47

was simply no way that Jeremy could

30:49

have been with Ben and Chris on the night of

30:52

Angie's murder.

30:54

At this point, police were thinking,

30:56

what the fuck?

30:58

Chris Tapp had seemingly led them

31:00

down a path of

31:03

lies.

31:04

So once again,

31:06

Chris was brought in for another

31:09

round of questioning.

31:11

But now the cops were

31:14

kind of pissed off. When

31:17

they met with Chris this time, they

31:19

demanded answers.

31:21

They wanted the truth, but more

31:24

than that, they wanted to put someone in prison

31:27

for Angie's murder.

31:29

Unfortunately, to

31:31

the detriment and disgrace

31:33

of their careers and to justice,

31:35

they

31:37

were willing to do

31:38

just about anything

31:40

to make that happen.

31:53

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33:22

In January

33:22

of 1997, 20-year-old

33:25

Chris Tapp confessed to Idaho

33:27

Falls homicide detectives that

33:29

he witnessed two of his friends,

33:32

Ben Hobbs and Jeremy Sargis, violently

33:35

rape and brutally murder their

33:37

friend, 18-year-old

33:38

Angie Dodge.

33:41

Yet, when detectives attempted

33:43

to corroborate Chris's confession,

33:47

they found that the male DNA on

33:49

Angie's body didn't match any of them. On

33:52

top of that, Jeremy Sargis had a

33:54

solid alibi for

33:56

the night of the murder.

33:58

For detectives, it was obvious that that Chris

34:00

Tapp had lied to them,

34:02

which was a violation of that sweet

34:05

immunity agreement that he secured for

34:07

himself.

34:08

As a result, Chris's immunity agreement

34:11

was dissolved and the detectives

34:13

were quick to confront him

34:15

about his lies. So,

34:17

when Chris Tapp tells us things, we

34:20

think, great, cool, that sounds pretty

34:22

good. I think he may be telling us the truth this

34:24

time. We're going to check it out and it's bogus.

34:27

The detectives were angry. They

34:30

wanted answers. Again, the

34:32

unidentified male DNA that

34:34

was found on Angie

34:36

was not a match for Ben or Chris,

34:39

but that didn't necessarily mean that

34:41

they didn't in some way

34:44

contribute to the murder. All

34:47

it meant was that there must have been another

34:50

person involved, and the

34:52

detectives believed that Chris Tapp knew

34:54

who that person was.

34:57

First of all, more than likely

34:59

you never left the apartment. Second

35:01

of all, there's definitely

35:03

another person involved that you haven't told us about.

35:07

Detectives spent several hours interrogating

35:10

Chris,

35:11

but no matter how hard they pushed him,

35:14

he simply wouldn't give up the name

35:17

of the third man.

35:19

You know the name, Chris. You know we know you

35:21

know the name. Chris,

35:23

you know. Alright. You do have

35:25

a name. Chris, you do have

35:27

a name. My name comes. We're not going

35:29

anywhere until we get the name, Chris. I know

35:32

this. Alright. Well,

35:35

Chris, we could be out of here. Yes, it

35:38

is. No, Chris, you're screwing with me now. Yes,

35:40

sir. Where are we? Well, you

35:43

know

35:43

you are. Chris never provided the name of

35:45

the mysterious third man,

35:47

but he did make a startling

35:50

confession.

35:51

Chris told detectives that

35:54

he had a much more active role

35:56

in the killing

35:57

than he had previously admitted.

36:00

According to him,

36:02

Ben Hobbs and the third man

36:04

threatened Chris

36:05

and forced him to stab Angie

36:08

Dodge

36:09

in the chest.

36:28

Based on this confession,

36:30

Chris was now considered to have an active

36:32

role in the murder, and

36:35

given that he was refusing to provide

36:37

the name of the third killer, Chris

36:40

was also considered to be uncooperative.

36:44

Ultimately, Chris Tapp was arrested and charged

36:47

with first degree murder and

36:49

rape.

36:51

As for Ben Hobbs,

36:52

he received the same charges, but

36:55

aside from Chris's unreliable

36:57

confession,

36:59

no other evidence linked Ben

37:01

to Angie's murder.

37:03

Eventually Ben's charges were dropped

37:06

and

37:07

the only person left holding the bag

37:10

was Chris Tapp.

37:12

After he was charged, Chris pled

37:15

not guilty,

37:16

and in 1998 his case went to trial.

37:20

During that trial, prosecutors maintained

37:23

the theory that Chris Tapp,

37:25

Ben Hobbs, and a third unidentified

37:27

man

37:28

raped and murdered Angie

37:30

Dodge.

37:32

The prosecutors successfully convinced

37:34

a jury

37:35

that Chris Tapp participated

37:38

in this crime,

37:40

and he was convicted of rape and

37:42

murder.

37:43

During the sentencing phase,

37:45

prosecutors asked for a death sentence,

37:49

but ultimately a judge spared

37:51

Chris's life.

37:53

He was sentenced to 36 years

37:55

to life in prison,

37:58

with a chance of parole. by

38:00

the year 2027.

38:04

Now, normally after I tell you guys about

38:06

a conviction and prison sentence,

38:08

I give a few closing remarks, play

38:10

some outro techno music or

38:12

whatever, and then tell you to stay safe.

38:15

I might remind you about PLUS. Sign

38:17

up at swordandscale.com slash PLUS. But

38:21

not this time, because you see, the

38:23

story of Angie Dodge and Chris

38:25

Tapp is far from over.

38:29

About 13 years after Chris Tapp

38:31

was sentenced, Angie's mom

38:34

made a disturbing

38:36

revelation.

38:38

She learned that the detectives

38:40

that interrogated Chris Tapp

38:43

had manipulated him in ways that

38:45

are almost beyond comprehension

38:48

in order to coerce a

38:51

confession.

38:53

To understand exactly how this happened,

38:55

it should be noted

38:57

that the lead detective that interrogated

38:59

Chris was 35-year-old

39:01

Jared Furman.

39:04

And Furman had met Chris Tapp long

39:06

before Angie Dodge was killed.

39:10

Before becoming a detective, Furman

39:13

worked as a school resource officer

39:15

at Chris Tapp's high school.

39:17

And because of that, Chris trusted

39:20

Furman. Throughout Chris's

39:22

many interrogations,

39:24

Detective Furman leaned hard

39:27

into that trust. I trust you,

39:30

and hopefully you trust me, okay?

39:33

I'm not gonna screw up, as you know. I

39:36

will do everything in my power to help

39:39

you, okay?

39:42

I'm gonna give you my word on it. An especially

39:45

naive 20-year-old Chris Tapp

39:48

believed that Detective Furman had

39:50

his back.

39:52

For Chris, it didn't matter what he said

39:55

because no matter what happened,

39:56

a friendly police detective was in

39:59

his corner.

40:00

Or so he thought.

40:02

The truth was, unfortunately, a

40:05

much different story.

40:18

Another thing you should know about Detective

40:20

Furman is that he was

40:23

blindly determined to put

40:25

Ben Hobbs on trial for Angie's

40:27

murder,

40:28

which was a goal he had made

40:31

abundantly clear while interrogating

40:33

Chris Tapp. For

40:48

reasons that aren't entirely

40:50

clear, Detective Furman

40:53

wanted to dropkick Ben Hobbs

40:55

through the goalposts of life. Whatever

40:58

the hell that means. But

41:01

in order to do that, Detective Furman

41:04

needed Chris Tapp to implicate Ben

41:07

and Angie's murder.

41:10

Yet when Chris was first questioned,

41:12

and even though Furman had established some

41:15

trust,

41:16

Chris adamantly denied having

41:18

any involvement with or knowledge

41:21

of Angie's murder.

41:24

In watching and listening to Chris's interrogation

41:26

tapes,

41:27

there are plenty of reasons to believe that

41:30

Chris

41:31

was telling the truth. For

41:33

one, Chris didn't even know

41:36

when Angie was killed.

41:54

Not only did Chris not know the date

41:56

of the crime,

41:58

but he also didn't know how.

42:00

Angie was killed.

42:02

That is until detective Furman

42:05

told him.

42:26

Pretty early on and before Chris

42:29

made any admission of guilt,

42:31

Chris was told that Angie was stabbed

42:34

several times.

42:36

With that knowledge and with the encouragement

42:39

of detective Furman,

42:41

Chris made up a story.

42:43

He explained that he saw Ben Hobbs stab

42:46

Angie to death, but his story

42:48

had big problems. For

42:51

starters, Chris didn't even know

42:53

where in Angie's apartment

42:55

she was killed. Angie was raped and murdered

42:58

in her bedroom. There was no

43:00

blood or any

43:18

evidence

43:21

of a struggle in

43:22

her living room. Chris

43:25

was dead wrong about where the murder

43:27

happened. In fact,

43:30

he didn't even know the layout of Angie's apartment

43:32

because

43:33

he'd never been there. A

43:35

particularly interesting part

43:37

of Chris's interrogation

43:40

is when Chris is asked about a

43:42

stairwell in Angie's apartment.

44:00

In this clip, Chris points out that

44:02

Detective Furman told him earlier that Angie's

44:04

apartment had stairs,

44:07

and he was right. Furman

44:09

mentioned it well before Chris made

44:12

any admissions of guilt. I

44:14

mean, if you were there, and he

44:16

told you maybe that if you were there

44:19

at the apartment with him, he told you to hang

44:21

downstairs or whatever.

44:23

If there was ever a doubt that

44:25

Chris had absolutely no knowledge of

44:27

Angie's apartment, it was made abundantly

44:30

clear when detectives asked him to

44:32

draw a top-down layout of

44:34

the home. Since Chris

44:37

had never been inside the apartment,

44:40

he failed this test

44:41

miserably. But,

44:44

one of the detectives was

44:46

more than happy to assist Chris

44:49

in getting it right.

44:58

Over

45:01

the course of three weeks, Chris Tapp was questioned nine times,

45:03

totaling over 30

45:05

hours of interrogation,

45:08

not including the seven polygraph

45:10

examinations he underwent. Throughout

45:14

those interrogations, the detectives repeatedly

45:16

fed up with the

45:32

non-public information about the crime, which included details

45:35

about how Angie was killed,

45:37

and the layout

45:39

of her home.

45:46

Chris

45:46

was shown photographs of Angie's apartment

45:48

and the

45:59

and her dead body.

46:02

But detectives didn't stop

46:04

there.

46:05

They also drove Chris to the crime scene

46:07

and showed him around.

46:09

Conveniently,

46:11

none of this little field trip was video

46:14

or audio recorded,

46:16

so we have no idea what other details

46:18

the detectives shared with Chris.

46:22

Needless to say, after spending many

46:24

hours and days with detectives,

46:27

Chris had a pretty good understanding

46:30

of Angie's murder.

46:32

But that's only one aspect of

46:34

how the cops were able to coerce

46:37

a confession out of him.

46:39

Perhaps the most egregious and revolting

46:42

thing that the cops did to Chris

46:45

was psychologically

46:47

manipulate him. I wasn't there.

46:49

I mean, you wouldn't have done it? I wouldn't have done it. No,

46:51

but you wouldn't have started. I wasn't even down

46:53

the fucking stairs. I wasn't nowhere around.

46:56

I know this. Probably

46:59

the God. I know

47:02

this. The woman's going to hurt Chris.

47:03

I wasn't there. I

47:05

mean, I think you're telling it to me. Like,

47:07

I was there. You

47:10

know, the line doesn't shut

47:12

down on all of us. Well. Okay.

47:16

Just like me. Some of the

47:18

brutal stuff that we see out on the streets. Seriously.

47:21

Hear me out. Some of the brutal stuff we see on the

47:23

streets. My mind shuts

47:25

down on me because I don't want to remember it. Okay.

47:29

And as John was saying, this may be the case

47:31

here with you.

47:31

Okay. Detectives

47:34

successfully convinced Chris that his

47:36

mind was playing tricks on him

47:39

and that he had repressed

47:41

the memories

47:43

of witnessing Angie's rape

47:45

and murder.

47:47

Cops are real good at gaslighting.

47:49

So don't talk to him. For

48:00

hours upon hours and days upon days, detectives

48:03

told Chris that his mind contained

48:05

memories

48:26

about what

48:29

happened

48:29

to Angie.

48:31

They encouraged him to recover those memories

48:34

and, more importantly,

48:36

vocalize them.

48:37

In your mind, you've

48:39

got to release it. You've got to

48:41

tell us. Let's

48:44

work on that. You know, I know it's tough.

48:48

You've got to sit there. You've

48:50

got to think about it in your mind.

48:52

You've got to go through

48:54

it.

48:56

This is part of what your recovery

48:58

is. For

49:01

you to cope with this, it's tough. It's tough.

49:04

It's tough to do stuff like this. It's tough to bring it

49:06

through.

49:06

Just

49:10

think hard about it. I

49:12

know it's there. Like I said, it's hard

49:14

to tell it. And this

49:16

is the point where you have to trust us.

49:19

Another aspect of psychological manipulation

49:22

that Chris Tapp was subjected

49:24

to

49:25

involved his polygraph examinations,

49:29

also known as lie detector

49:31

tests. The polygraph, back

49:33

to your polygraph, the

49:35

two questions that came

49:37

out very deceptive

49:39

were number one, did

49:41

you kill Angie? Or

49:43

did you kill Angie? Chris was

49:45

told and convinced that the lie

49:47

detector machine

49:49

could determine what memories his mind

49:51

was suppressing.

49:53

In other words,

49:54

if Chris said that he didn't kill

49:57

Angie,

49:58

and the lie detector shows Should

50:00

that be false, it didn't

50:02

mean that Chris was lying, it only meant that

50:04

Chris didn't remember

50:07

it. Years later,

50:09

and long after Chris was convicted

50:11

of murder and sent to prison, his

50:14

interrogation and polygraph examination

50:16

tapes

50:17

were reviewed by several retired

50:19

attorneys and law professors.

50:22

Unanimously,

50:24

they all agreed that Chris's polygraph

50:26

tests

50:27

were not conducted

50:29

in an effort to find

50:31

the truth.

50:50

In layman's terms, the lie

50:52

detector tests were used as a

50:54

means to manipulate Chris and

50:57

convince him that the machine knew

50:59

the truth better than

51:01

Chris's own mind.

51:04

It's almost like when they convince you that the government

51:07

has a better use for your money

51:09

than you do.

51:11

With this manipulation in place,

51:14

Chris Tapp was ready to surrender

51:16

and provide detectives with whatever

51:19

information

51:20

they wanted to hear. Initially,

51:48

the

51:50

Chris

52:00

only admitted to being at Angie's apartment

52:02

and witnessing Ben Hobbs commit the

52:05

murder. But the male DNA

52:07

found on Angie's body

52:09

didn't match Ben

52:11

or Chris.

52:12

So Chris gave the cops another story

52:15

and said that Jeremy Sargis was

52:17

also there.

52:19

But yet again, the DNA

52:20

didn't match. But

52:24

the bottom line is this, Chris. The bottom line

52:26

is this. Chris, you

52:28

told us Jeremy Sargis was

52:30

there.

52:31

You not only told us that he was there,

52:34

but he took an act of pardon. Now we're finding

52:36

out that Sargis probably wasn't there and that

52:38

you were screwing with us.

52:40

I'm not screwing with you. What

52:42

is it, Chris? I don't know what the hell you guys

52:44

want. Okay, well Sargis there or not? It's

52:47

my recollection, yes.

52:50

Listen, you're the one that's providing the details.

52:52

You're running the show here, not us. Okay,

52:55

you're running the show, Chris.

52:57

On the contrary,

52:59

Chris Tapp wasn't running the show

53:01

at all.

53:02

The detectives were entirely responsible

53:05

for the information that Chris had

53:08

given them.

53:09

They manipulated him into

53:12

providing information that they

53:14

believed to be true for

53:16

whatever reason.

53:18

The main problem, of course, was that

53:20

it wasn't true. Not

53:23

a single

53:24

word of it.

53:26

To that point, Detective Furman was clearly

53:28

upset that Jeremy's DNA didn't

53:30

match the DNA at the crime scene

53:33

and he took his frustration out on

53:35

Chris.

53:37

But here's the thing.

53:38

Chris

53:39

didn't tell Detective Furman that Jeremy

53:42

participated in the crime until

53:44

after Furman told Chris

53:47

that Jeremy was involved.

53:50

Chicken or

53:51

the egg? It just comes to our attention

53:53

that it looks like Jeremy was probably more involved

53:56

than it looks

53:58

like he probably was there.

53:59

I

54:02

remember Jeremy in there, wouldn't I?

54:05

I would think. I don't remember seeing

54:07

him there.

54:09

This part of Chris's interrogation

54:11

is extremely telling.

54:13

Notice how he asks the detective if

54:16

he would remember

54:17

that Jeremy was there.

54:20

Chris is questioning his own memory

54:23

because the cops convinced him

54:26

that his memory was unreliable.

54:29

At the same time, Chris looks

54:32

for affirmation

54:33

from Detective Furman,

54:35

whom he trusts to guide him to the

54:38

right place.

54:40

As for Furman, before the DNA

54:42

results on Jeremy Sargis came back,

54:45

he was absolutely certain

54:47

that Jeremy was somehow involved

54:50

in Angie's murder.

54:52

The certainty is obvious

54:55

throughout Jeremy's interrogation.

55:06

Yes,

55:23

Detective Furman.

55:44

You and all the detectives that

55:46

investigated this case had made

55:48

complete fools of yourselves.

55:51

But that fact, along with a lot

55:53

of other facts,

55:55

seemed completely lost on them.

55:59

investigation they could have and

56:02

should have stopped and

56:04

said hey, wait a minute, none

56:05

of the DNA matches and

56:08

none of the evidence is corroborating

56:10

what Chris Tapp is telling us.

56:12

Maybe

56:13

just maybe we

56:15

are going

56:16

in the wrong direction.

56:19

I mean that's the logical path to

56:21

take, right?

56:22

Well, unfortunately

56:25

neither Furman nor anyone

56:28

at the Idaho Falls Police Department

56:30

said that, even when Chris Tapp

56:32

gave them the chance. You

56:35

went from no involvement

56:37

to getting in my face saying

56:40

I don't know anything to where you're

56:43

starting to come clean on some of the stuff.

56:48

I mean we're not there. I was never there, I wasn't involved.

56:51

I would

56:53

just start way back then.

56:55

After Jeremy Sargis was eliminated

56:58

as a suspect,

56:59

the detectives remained hard

57:01

headed. They maintained their

57:04

theory that Chris Tapp, Ben Hobbs,

57:06

and a third unknown man

57:08

were responsible for Angie's murder.

57:11

So once again, they

57:13

went back to Chris and demanded

57:16

that

57:16

he give them the name of

57:19

the third man.

57:20

Well, something's there because you're not giving up that

57:22

person, Chris. I would if I could, Jeremy, I would.

57:25

Jesus Christ, I would. But

57:28

I don't know, I can give you every goddamn name in the book.

57:31

The facts still remain and

57:33

they are facts. It's not probable

57:36

cause, but it's facts. Right.

57:38

Chris, you were there, another person

57:41

was there. I know and I'm not trying to dick you

57:43

around that, you know. Well, you are dickin'. I'm

57:45

not trying to dick around Chris, you are.

57:48

You're dickin' us around right now. Because

57:50

I won't say his name. And my thing is,

57:52

the name, nothing comes to my head. No, but Chris.

57:55

What more do you want? I mean, if

57:57

nothing comes to my head, what can I do? I'm

58:00

trying to give you everything I can remember. What more, I

58:03

mean, that's it. We're

58:05

not the bad guys here."

58:07

Naturally Chris couldn't provide

58:09

the name of this third man because

58:11

there was no third man.

58:14

Chris continued to butt heads with

58:16

detectives who

58:17

were trying to get an answer that

58:20

didn't exist.

58:22

As a result, Angie's murder

58:25

could only be pinned on one person. Remember

58:29

tap. Well, no different if

58:31

Chris stuck her once. No different.

58:34

Well, what do you mean to this? Oh, what? I'm

58:36

still going to be a what? Murder now instead of accessory? Oh, Chris,

58:38

Chris, what? Talk to me here, okay? I'm sorry, I have

58:40

to do the worst case. Well, let's think of the

58:42

worst case, okay? So

58:47

what if? What if? What

58:49

if you did, okay? Cut her once. Okay, so you cut

58:51

her once, okay?

58:52

Maybe I did cut her. Okay, so you cut her once, okay?

58:54

Maybe I did cut her. Okay, so you cut her once, okay? Maybe

58:56

I did cut her. I'm sure you did. I mean, come on, man.

58:59

I mean, you're the heat of the moment. She's putting up the fight. Ben's

59:01

screaming at you, you know? You're caught. You're right

59:03

there in the middle, right? Sure you are. Sure

59:05

you are. on? What

59:08

am I doing?

59:09

Man, you get caught up in it. What? Yeah,

59:11

yeah, yeah. This is a one-time only. You've

59:13

never done it before. You're not going to be able to do it. You're not

59:15

going to be able to do it. You're not going to be able to do it. You're not going to

59:17

be able to do it. You're not going to be able to do it. Then,

59:20

man, you get caught up in it. Yeah,

59:24

yeah, yeah. This is a one-time only. You've never done it before.

59:27

You're hating yourself for even doing it. But the fact is, you did do it. So

59:29

let's do it. Let's, you know,

59:30

get into it. Chris

59:35

Tapp's last interview with Detective

59:37

Furman was on January 30, 1997. During

59:42

that interview, Chris confessed

59:45

to stabbing Angie Dodge.

59:48

Based on that confession alone,

59:51

Chris was convicted of rape and

59:54

first-degree murder, and

59:57

subsequently sent to prison.

59:59

Sadly, in one of the most egregious

1:00:03

miscarriages of justice imaginable,

1:00:07

it was

1:00:08

in prison that

1:00:09

Chris Tapp remained for

1:00:12

twenty years.

1:00:30

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1:02:05

In June

1:02:07

of 1996, 18-year-old Angie Dodge was found raped and murdered

1:02:09

in her Idaho Falls

1:02:12

apartment.

1:02:21

Seven months later, Idaho Falls homicide detectives

1:02:24

coerced a false murder confession

1:02:27

out of one of Angie's friends, 20-year-old

1:02:30

Christopher Tapp.

1:02:32

Based on that confession, a jury convicted

1:02:34

Chris of first-degree murder and rape.

1:02:37

He was sentenced to 36 years

1:02:39

to life with a chance at parole

1:02:42

in 2027.

1:02:44

As Chris sat in prison,

1:02:47

the Angie Dodge murder investigation

1:02:49

remained active and open, mainly

1:02:52

because the male DNA found on

1:02:54

Angie's body

1:02:55

had never been identified. Even

1:02:59

so, the Idaho Falls police did

1:03:01

put someone in prison for the murder,

1:03:04

so the pressure to solve the crime was

1:03:07

reduced considerably. All

1:03:10

efforts to find out whose DNA it was

1:03:13

moved at a snail's pace,

1:03:15

now that they already had their killer.

1:03:19

In fact, the Angie Dodge murder investigation

1:03:21

probably would have died off completely

1:03:23

had it not been for the efforts

1:03:26

of Angie's mom, Carol Dodge,

1:03:29

who was constantly hounding

1:03:31

the

1:03:32

Idaho Falls Police Department for

1:03:34

answers. For years,

1:03:37

Carol Dodge believed the same theory

1:03:39

that prosecutors presented at trial.

1:03:42

She was convinced that Chris Tapp, Ben

1:03:44

Hobbes, and an unknown third

1:03:47

man raped and murdered her

1:03:49

18-year-old daughter. Carol

1:03:52

was determined to find out who the third

1:03:54

man was, but in 2008,

1:03:57

she decided to sit down and watch

1:03:59

Chris

1:03:59

caps interrogation tapes in

1:04:02

their entirety.

1:04:04

As she did this,

1:04:06

Carol saw what

1:04:07

anyone could see, detectives

1:04:11

manipulating a young man into

1:04:14

giving a false confession.

1:04:17

After reviewing the tapes,

1:04:20

Carol wisely reached out to

1:04:22

a law professor at Northwestern

1:04:25

Pritzker School of Law,

1:04:27

who happened to be an expert on

1:04:29

false confessions. In

1:04:55

an effort to solve her

1:04:57

daughter's murder, Carol Dodge continued

1:05:00

asking third-party experts

1:05:09

for

1:05:12

help.

1:05:13

Several retired FBI agents

1:05:15

and law professors reviewed the police

1:05:18

and autopsy reports.

1:05:20

As this was done, it became pretty

1:05:22

clear that the original detectives

1:05:25

weren't only malicious when it

1:05:27

came to conducting interrogations,

1:05:31

they were also completely inept

1:05:33

when it came to evaluating evidence.

1:05:37

All of the evidence in this case points

1:05:39

to a lone offender. The

1:05:42

police misinterpreted this evidence,

1:05:44

thinking they were looking for multiple offenders. But

1:05:48

the evidence itself, when viewed

1:05:51

independently and objectively, supports

1:05:54

the conclusion that a single offender was

1:05:56

involved in this crime.

1:05:59

The Falls investigators operated under

1:06:02

the assumption

1:06:03

that multiple people were involved in

1:06:05

Angie's murder,

1:06:07

but all of the crime scene evidence

1:06:09

screamed lone offender.

1:06:13

In 2014, an extensive report

1:06:15

about the Angie Dodge murder

1:06:17

was released by Judges for

1:06:19

Justice,

1:06:21

a nonprofit organization that provides

1:06:23

independent and scientific analysis

1:06:25

for cases of alleged

1:06:28

innocence. While

1:06:30

their company name leaves a

1:06:32

lot to be desired,

1:06:34

Judges for Justice is a powerhouse

1:06:37

when it comes to crime scene analysis.

1:06:40

In their report about Angie Dodge, they

1:06:42

painstakingly point out everything

1:06:45

wrong with the way that Idaho Falls

1:06:47

police interpreted

1:06:50

the evidence and how the

1:06:52

crime was almost certainly committed by

1:06:55

just one person. From

1:06:57

blood spatter analysis to the way

1:07:00

Angie's body and clothes were positioned,

1:07:03

as well as the state of her bedroom, all

1:07:06

of it pointed

1:07:07

to a lone offender. In

1:07:10

their report, they wrote the following. The

1:07:14

IFPD investigation proceeded with

1:07:16

the predetermined conclusion that

1:07:18

Ben Hobbs had killed Angie Dodge.

1:07:22

This conclusion was in error,

1:07:24

and it was their reaction to this error

1:07:27

which doomed the case. All

1:07:30

evidence was evaluated through that

1:07:33

filter,

1:07:34

and all investigative actions reflected

1:07:36

that bias. Based

1:07:39

on all available evidence, it

1:07:41

is the conclusion of Judges for

1:07:43

Justice that neither Christopher Tapp

1:07:46

nor Benjamin Hobbs had

1:07:49

any involvement in the murder of

1:07:51

Angie Dodge, and that the crime

1:07:53

was committed by a male who lived

1:07:56

in proximity to Angie at

1:07:58

the time of her murder. murder.

1:08:01

That

1:08:01

killer likely still

1:08:03

walks the streets.

1:08:06

Another important detail that this

1:08:08

report points out is that Ben

1:08:10

Hobbs had no motive to kill

1:08:12

Angie Dodge. When Chris

1:08:15

Tapp gave his false confession, he claimed

1:08:18

that Ben was angry because Angie

1:08:20

told his wife that Ben was cheating on her.

1:08:23

Yet

1:08:24

detectives knew

1:08:26

this wasn't true. The

1:08:28

Judges for Justice report reads as

1:08:30

follows. On January 10,

1:08:34

1997, Ben Hobbs, then a strange wife, told

1:08:36

Detective Jared Fuhrman that

1:08:39

Angie had nothing to do with

1:08:41

their breakup. Still,

1:08:44

Fuhrman apparently disregarded this

1:08:46

first-hand information and

1:08:48

persisted in foisting that

1:08:51

false motive on Chris Tapp.

1:08:53

As all of this information was coming to

1:08:55

light, Chris Tapp's defense team was busy

1:08:58

trying to get Chris released from prison

1:09:01

on the basis of innocence.

1:09:05

Their attempts were denied several

1:09:07

times, but after years

1:09:09

of legal battles and

1:09:12

with the assistance of Angie's mom,

1:09:14

Chris finally caught a

1:09:16

small break. In March

1:09:19

of 2017, Chris Tapp entered into an

1:09:21

agreement

1:09:24

with Idaho State prosecutors. A new

1:09:27

generation of Idaho prosecutors were

1:09:39

willing

1:09:43

to vacate Chris Tapp's rape confession,

1:09:46

but they wanted to maintain the murder

1:09:48

conviction. Chris

1:09:52

Tapp had been released

1:09:54

from prison immediately on

1:09:56

the basis of time served. After

1:10:00

he accepted this agreement, he would still be considered

1:10:02

a convicted murderer. For

1:10:05

the state, perhaps the most important

1:10:07

part of this agreement was that Chris would not

1:10:09

be able to pursue any civil

1:10:12

action against Idaho or

1:10:14

the corrupt detectives that put him in

1:10:16

prison. Despite

1:10:19

all the wrong

1:10:20

they had done to him,

1:10:22

the state was unwilling

1:10:25

to admit fault or be held

1:10:28

accountable.

1:10:30

After all, accountability is something that the

1:10:32

state, in general,

1:10:34

doesn't quite care for.

1:10:37

Even so, the prospect

1:10:39

of being let out of prison was just

1:10:41

too good for Chris to pass up

1:10:44

and he accepted the terms of

1:10:46

the agreement.

1:10:48

To give you a sense of how stupid our justice

1:10:50

system can be sometimes, when

1:10:53

Chris Tapp went before a judge to be

1:10:55

resentenced, everyone in the courtroom

1:10:57

knew that he was innocent. That

1:11:01

judge, the prosecutors, the

1:11:03

media, everyone, everyone

1:11:05

knew. The victim's mom,

1:11:07

even. This is

1:11:09

why when Angie's mom was given

1:11:12

the chance to provide an impact statement,

1:11:14

she spoke plainly and

1:11:17

directed her comments

1:11:18

at Chris. For 13

1:11:20

years, I was

1:11:23

really angry at you and of course you were

1:11:25

angry at me because

1:11:27

for 13 years they programmed

1:11:30

my mind to believe

1:11:33

that you were part

1:11:35

of my daughter's killing. I

1:11:38

remember visiting you at Pocatella

1:11:41

at the jail, asking

1:11:44

you what my baby's last words were. Little

1:11:49

did I know that you just didn't know. It

1:11:54

took me 13 years, Chris. Two.

1:12:00

read over and over and over again and

1:12:02

watch the video tapes of your

1:12:04

interrogation. They're

1:12:07

long. You can

1:12:09

hardly hear them. You're agonizing.

1:12:12

They're disgusting.

1:12:14

Angie's mom is right.

1:12:16

The interrogation of Chris Tapp was and

1:12:19

is disgusting.

1:12:22

We watched all 30 plus

1:12:24

hours of it

1:12:26

along with Chris's polygraph

1:12:28

examinations.

1:12:30

I encourage you to do so yourself. It's

1:12:33

pretty obvious to see

1:12:35

detectives twist and manipulate

1:12:37

a young man into admitting to

1:12:39

something he clearly didn't do is revolting

1:12:43

in and of itself.

1:12:44

But it also completely dismantles

1:12:46

the purpose

1:12:48

of a justice system to begin

1:12:50

with.

1:12:51

Given how many people needed

1:12:53

to be involved, the fact that this case was

1:12:56

ever even presented to a jury should

1:12:59

scare the hell out of you.

1:13:01

Granted, in 1998, coerced

1:13:04

confessions weren't quite as well understood

1:13:06

as they are today. But

1:13:08

even so, this is not

1:13:10

a situation of hindsight being 20,

1:13:14

20. Anyone with even a basic level

1:13:16

of education

1:13:18

can watch the interrogation tapes and see

1:13:20

what's going on. It's

1:13:23

plain as day. For over

1:13:25

a decade, Angie's mom was basically

1:13:27

brainwashed into thinking Chris

1:13:30

Tapp raped and stabbed her daughter.

1:13:33

Yet she saw

1:13:36

it right away. But what

1:13:38

I wanted to know is how

1:13:41

a layperson, how a crime

1:13:43

victim could look at these

1:13:45

tapes and see all

1:13:48

the problems with these tapes. How

1:13:50

could she see that? And the

1:13:52

police officers not see

1:13:56

all of these problems. These

1:13:58

police officers were so.

1:13:59

stuck in the Chris Tapp

1:14:02

box and they couldn't

1:14:04

get out of it. Even though DNA

1:14:07

evidence excluded Chris Tapp

1:14:09

and excluded every single person

1:14:12

that he named, they were

1:14:14

stuck in that box. So

1:14:17

what I wanna see happen is in cases

1:14:19

like this, before trial,

1:14:22

when you have a confession and you

1:14:24

have DNA evidence that

1:14:26

excludes the person who confesses

1:14:29

police officers

1:14:29

need to stop and

1:14:32

not charge that person and

1:14:34

continue investigating, because

1:14:37

had they done so, perhaps

1:14:40

they might have found the person

1:14:42

who actually committed this crime.

1:14:45

Given how obviously coerced Chris's

1:14:47

confession was,

1:14:49

it's hard to believe that detectives

1:14:51

didn't know exactly

1:14:53

what they were doing.

1:14:55

But let's say we give them the benefit

1:14:58

of the doubt.

1:14:59

Let's say that they were so swept

1:15:01

up by the prospect that Ben

1:15:03

Hobbs and Chris Tapp were involved in

1:15:05

this crime

1:15:07

that they just couldn't see beyond

1:15:09

that theory. Let's say

1:15:12

that they were not trying to pin a murder

1:15:14

on someone

1:15:15

that they thought or even knew was innocent.

1:15:19

That's not exactly a glowing endorsement

1:15:22

of the caliber of people that work for the

1:15:24

Idaho Police Department.

1:15:26

They were either being completely malicious

1:15:28

and trying to put an innocent man in prison,

1:15:31

just to close out a high profile murder case

1:15:33

that was on their desk,

1:15:35

or they are mind-numbingly

1:15:38

incompetent when

1:15:40

it comes to investigating crime. But

1:15:43

hey, why pick one when

1:15:45

you can have both? They're

1:15:47

not mutually exclusive,

1:15:51

after all. The government

1:15:53

can be

1:15:54

both malicious and stupid,

1:15:57

in case you haven't noticed.

1:15:59

What seems to have happened here is that the Idaho

1:16:02

Falls detectives completely bungled

1:16:05

the Angie Dodge murder investigation.

1:16:08

At some point, they probably realized

1:16:10

that they screwed up. But

1:16:13

then they were already way too deep

1:16:15

and they felt they couldn't turn back and

1:16:18

still save face. Maybe

1:16:20

they had career aspirations they

1:16:23

didn't want to screw up.

1:16:24

Who knows? Maybe they didn't

1:16:26

want to admit they were wrong.

1:16:29

A lot of us don't.

1:16:31

In fact, for some, it's the

1:16:33

hardest possible thing

1:16:35

you can ask them to do.

1:16:37

Maybe they were just blinded by

1:16:39

the anger

1:16:41

at the idea that Chris Tapp had lied

1:16:43

to them.

1:16:44

Whatever the reason,

1:16:46

at some point these detectives likely

1:16:48

made a conscious decision to put

1:16:50

an innocent man on trial for

1:16:53

murder.

1:16:54

Speaking of those detectives, all of

1:16:56

them were conspicuous by their

1:16:58

absence at Chris Tapp's resentencing

1:17:01

hearing.

1:17:02

This was not only a slap in the face

1:17:04

to Chris, but also a clear

1:17:07

indication

1:17:08

that they had no interest in seeing that Angie

1:17:11

Dodge got justice or

1:17:13

that Angie's mom

1:17:14

got answers about the identity,

1:17:17

the true identity,

1:17:19

of her daughter's killer.

1:17:20

I don't know who he is. I

1:17:22

don't know that I'll ever know who he is. I

1:17:26

don't know that he's alive. I

1:17:28

don't know where he's at. I

1:17:31

can tell you that it's been one hell of a journey.

1:17:35

And I have turned to

1:17:37

every pebble there is. And

1:17:40

I'm saddened that

1:17:42

I don't see any of

1:17:44

the Idaho Falls Police Department here

1:17:47

representing my daughter saying

1:17:50

that they'll help me find justice. I

1:17:53

was so sad.

1:17:55

For Angie's mom, the agonizing pursuit

1:17:58

to find her daughter's real killer.

1:17:59

Dragged on, can

1:18:02

you imagine the pain,

1:18:04

the frustration in dealing

1:18:06

with this inefficient,

1:18:09

inadequate system, how

1:18:11

small you would feel against it as

1:18:15

a victim's mother,

1:18:17

and how much of your entire

1:18:19

psyche becomes consumed with

1:18:22

finding justice for the death of this person

1:18:26

that you truly love? Despite

1:18:29

this sad reality,

1:18:31

Chris Tapp's resentencing hearing

1:18:34

did have somewhat of a

1:18:36

happy ending.

1:18:37

On March 22, 2017, after spending 20 years in prison for

1:18:40

a crime he did not commit, a judge

1:18:47

released Chris Tapp.

1:18:50

Even though he was still considered a convicted

1:18:52

killer,

1:18:53

Chris became a free man.

1:18:56

After Chris was released, he gave an

1:18:58

interview to East Idaho News, which helped shed some

1:19:26

light

1:19:27

on why someone might confess to a

1:19:29

crime

1:19:30

they did not commit.

1:19:59

police. They're not going to lie to you. They're not going to screw you. So

1:20:02

I went with that. But

1:20:05

you spent hours upon hours inside of the interrogation

1:20:07

room and you just start wanting to get away

1:20:10

from the police because you want to go

1:20:12

home. When the

1:20:14

DNA came back and it cleared me and then

1:20:16

back then

1:20:17

they had a chance to stop it, but they didn't. They just

1:20:19

pushed

1:20:20

me in a different direction to implicate somebody else.

1:20:24

At this point, everyone familiar with the

1:20:26

Angie Dodge case knew that

1:20:28

Chris Tapp was innocent, which

1:20:31

is why the reporter asked Chris if

1:20:33

he had anything to say to

1:20:36

Angie's real killer. And

1:20:38

if that murderer is still alive, what

1:20:41

would you say to them?

1:20:42

I think when John said it best the day they released

1:20:44

me, there's a bounty on his head.

1:20:46

There will come a time if an

1:20:48

individual is alive that

1:20:51

he will be brought to justice. While

1:20:53

Chris's long and hard fought legal

1:20:55

battles to get out of prison had

1:20:58

finally come to an end,

1:21:00

the search for Angie's real killer

1:21:03

continued. And in May of 2019,

1:21:05

23 years after

1:21:09

Angie was murdered, that

1:21:11

search came to an end.

1:21:15

Thanks to advancements in DNA testing,

1:21:18

a new generation of Idaho homicide

1:21:20

detectives were finally able

1:21:23

to identify the man that

1:21:25

killed Angie Dodge.

1:21:44

Unbelievable,

1:21:47

isn't it?

1:21:48

In 1996, when Angie Dodge

1:21:51

was killed,

1:21:52

the murderer lived right

1:21:54

across the street from her,

1:21:56

and he had no alibi for

1:21:58

the night of the crime.

1:22:01

Yet, the original investigators

1:22:03

didn't think to question him further

1:22:06

or take a DNA sample from him.

1:22:09

I guess it's kind of hard to properly

1:22:11

investigate a murder

1:22:13

when you're too busy putting an

1:22:15

innocent man

1:22:16

in prison.

1:22:18

In 2019, genealogical DNA

1:22:21

testing

1:22:22

was used to identify distant relatives

1:22:24

of Angie's killer.

1:22:27

This process led investigators

1:22:29

to a suspect. That

1:22:31

suspect was 53-year-old

1:22:34

Brian Lee Drips,

1:22:37

who again lived

1:22:39

right across the fucking street from

1:22:41

Angie when she was killed.

1:22:44

After Brian became a suspect,

1:22:47

Idaho investigators surveilled him for

1:22:49

about a week before snatching

1:22:51

up a cigarette butt that he tossed onto

1:22:54

some pavement. When the cigarette

1:22:56

was tested for DNA,

1:22:58

it came back as a match.

1:23:02

The semen found on Angie's dead body

1:23:04

belonged to Brian Drips.

1:23:07

Soon after this realization

1:23:09

was made, Brian was

1:23:11

taken into police custody and

1:23:14

questioned. This was something

1:23:17

that took place years and years ago. When

1:23:19

you were living in Idaho Falls, the Idaho Falls area,

1:23:22

it was a pretty

1:23:24

major case on that. The only thing I

1:23:26

can think of is the death

1:23:29

murder case. The only

1:23:31

thing I can think of that happened when I was living there.

1:23:34

Tell us what you remember about that. Well,

1:23:37

that's what I knew about it back then. I

1:23:40

don't remember much. From

1:23:43

what I remember that night, we were drinking

1:23:46

with my buddies. Until

1:23:48

the top of that night, we called

1:23:51

the cab for my buddy. The

1:23:55

cab came to my buddy up because I

1:23:57

was passing out.

1:24:00

At the end of this interrogation,

1:24:02

the cops didn't reveal that they had already

1:24:05

matched Brian's DNA to Angie's

1:24:07

murder,

1:24:08

and Brian maintained the same story

1:24:11

that he had given the

1:24:13

police over 20 years before

1:24:15

this interview.

1:24:17

As expected, when the investigators

1:24:19

asked Brian for a DNA sample, he

1:24:21

was reluctant to

1:24:23

give it up. We would like

1:24:25

to get a sample from you, a buccal

1:24:28

swab or a DNA sample. Is

1:24:30

that something you'd be willing to do?

1:24:32

It's really un-intrusive. Is it the swab that you'd be willing

1:24:35

to do? No, I don't get it. I just don't like the stuff

1:24:37

that my DNA will be in

1:24:39

some database.

1:24:41

Is there a reason your semen would be on the scene? How?

1:24:45

Is there a reason your semen would be on the scene?

1:24:48

No. So you would just be

1:24:50

completely shocked if

1:24:52

we had your DNA at the scene? Yep.

1:24:57

We'd have your DNA at the scene.

1:24:59

After Brian was made aware that the cops

1:25:01

had him dead to rights, it

1:25:04

didn't take long for him to come clean

1:25:06

and confess to raping and murdering 18-year-old

1:25:10

Angie Dodge

1:25:11

in June of 1996. I don't remember.

1:25:14

I need details. I don't remember.

1:25:17

All messed up. Shit

1:25:20

happened. You mean my

1:25:24

shit had it? Because

1:25:26

I was almost on co-control.

1:25:29

But you said

1:25:33

you just went there? Where was your plan? Didn't

1:25:36

have one. How'd

1:25:40

you get in? taxpayer

1:25:43

dollars opening to the door and

1:25:46

the layout of the house I

1:25:49

couldn't tell you. I remember it. upstairs

1:25:52

you remember what? I had to walk up some

1:25:54

stairs. Yeah, walk up some stairs.

1:25:57

And there it is. Corroboration.

1:26:01

Brian knew that Angie's apartment had

1:26:03

stairs and nobody needed

1:26:05

to tell him beforehand.

1:26:08

At the time of Angie's murder, Brian

1:26:10

Dripps was 30 years old and

1:26:13

was in the middle of a divorce.

1:26:15

He claimed that he was drunk and high on

1:26:18

cocaine

1:26:19

when he went to Angie's apartment

1:26:21

and that he never intended to kill her.

1:26:24

His only goal was to rape her.

1:26:28

What did you use? My

1:26:30

knife. Describe that

1:26:32

to me. Just

1:26:35

a knife. A buck knife? Did you have

1:26:37

the knife out? Also,

1:26:41

the... Yep. You're

1:26:44

hoping that what? That when

1:26:46

it would keep her calm so she went, I...

1:26:49

I could just do my thing with me. How

1:26:52

did you take off her clothes? I just

1:26:54

pulled my hands down. Where

1:26:59

did you ejaculate? In

1:27:02

or outside of her. Oh,

1:27:04

that's hot.

1:27:06

I think that's when it ended up. Good.

1:27:11

According to Brian, as he

1:27:13

was raping Angie, she

1:27:15

fought back,

1:27:17

which led Brian to stabbing her

1:27:19

several times and

1:27:21

slitting her throat.

1:27:23

This account was consistent

1:27:25

with the crime scene and

1:27:27

quite different than the original theory

1:27:29

that three men had raped and

1:27:31

murdered Angie. What are your thoughts

1:27:34

and regards to that? To what? The

1:27:36

other conviction that we have in this case.

1:27:39

Oh.

1:27:41

I'm not sorry for the guy. What

1:27:44

did you think Brian's confession? I

1:27:47

don't know. I really

1:27:49

don't know. I

1:27:52

guess I can almost start into it.

1:27:55

Apparently, Brian was pretty indifferent

1:27:57

about Chris Tapp's confession.

1:28:00

And he didn't really care that

1:28:02

an innocent person went to prison for a crime

1:28:05

he committed.

1:28:06

To do so would have meant that he had a conscience,

1:28:10

which

1:28:11

not a lot of rapists slash murderers

1:28:13

do.

1:28:14

At the same time,

1:28:16

he obviously didn't care that Angie's mom

1:28:18

and the rest of her family were

1:28:20

painfully and desperately searching

1:28:23

for

1:28:23

answers. Mr. Drips

1:28:26

is the definition of evil. He

1:28:29

never wanted to confess his crimes to this

1:28:31

court or take responsibility

1:28:33

for the atrocity against us

1:28:36

and this community. He was completely

1:28:38

happy to sit back, retire,

1:28:42

watch another man do time for a crime that

1:28:46

only Mr. Drips committed.

1:28:49

He lived his life and kept silent about

1:28:52

Angie's murder for those 23 years. He

1:28:55

went on vacation with his family, got

1:28:58

to enjoy time with his children,

1:29:00

his mother, his stepfather,

1:29:03

his other family members and friends.

1:29:05

So what does that tell us? That

1:29:08

every day for 23 years, he

1:29:10

got to enjoy that time, enjoy

1:29:13

those special events, knowing

1:29:16

that

1:29:16

there was a family, suffering,

1:29:19

that there was a family, the Dodge family, who

1:29:23

did not have the truth because

1:29:25

the truth remained

1:29:28

hidden and silent in Mr.

1:29:30

Drips. To avoid a potential

1:29:33

death sentence,

1:29:34

Brian Drips pled guilty

1:29:37

to Angie's rape and murder

1:29:39

in February of 2021. Later

1:29:42

that year, he was sentenced to 20

1:29:45

years to life and

1:29:47

he will almost certainly die behind

1:29:50

bars.

1:29:51

With Brian Drips locked up,

1:29:54

the search to find Angie's real killer

1:29:56

had finally reached an end.

1:29:59

story of Chris Tapp

1:30:02

continued. After Brian

1:30:04

was arrested, the Idaho Falls Police

1:30:06

Department threw themselves a little

1:30:08

celebratory press release,

1:30:11

and it just so happened that Chris Tapp was

1:30:13

in attendance. Contentiously,

1:30:17

one of the news reporters put the police

1:30:19

department

1:30:20

on the spot and asked

1:30:23

just the right question.

1:30:24

Naturally,

1:30:28

the police wanted to focus

1:30:30

on their accomplishments.

1:30:50

There's

1:30:55

no doubt there are failings in our

1:30:57

criminal justice system. In my view, there's

1:31:11

no

1:31:18

doubt that the defendant was convicted of a

1:31:20

crime for which he had not been hit.

1:31:43

Chris Tapp is the 367th

1:31:47

person in America to

1:31:49

be exonerated through the use

1:31:52

of DNA. Of those 367

1:31:54

people, 102 of them gave the police a

1:31:59

a false confession.

1:32:03

Almost 1 in 3 to 1 in 4 people

1:32:06

would lie about being involved

1:32:09

in a crime. As

1:32:12

hard as it is to wrap your mind around

1:32:14

someone admitting to a crime they didn't commit,

1:32:17

it does happen. In fact, it seems

1:32:20

to happen quite a lot. It's

1:32:23

not exactly uncommon.

1:32:25

At Chris's exoneration hearing, one

1:32:28

of his defense attorneys pointed out how

1:32:30

easy it is for something like this to happen.

1:32:33

You know, the tactics that police use during

1:32:35

interrogations are psychologically coercive.

1:32:39

Police are allowed to lie to people

1:32:42

they're interrogating and say, we have

1:32:44

your fingerprints, you know, we have

1:32:46

DNA at the scene and innocent

1:32:48

people think great, as soon as they do testing,

1:32:51

they're going to see that I didn't do it. This interrogation

1:32:54

is so stressful. If I tell them what they want to hear

1:32:56

now, then I can put an end to it and

1:32:58

then I'll be cleared when they do further investigation.

1:33:01

But once you make an admission, that

1:33:03

further investigation never comes. After

1:33:06

being exonerated,

1:33:08

Chris Tapp stood on the steps of

1:33:10

the same courthouse where he was wrongfully

1:33:12

convicted of murder

1:33:15

and gave a brief statement. I

1:33:18

hope that things get learned from

1:33:20

this mistake. And I hope

1:33:22

things get changed and things get better.

1:33:25

But there's never another mistake like this ever happens

1:33:27

again in this community or in this

1:33:30

state.

1:33:31

Chris Tapp has hope that what

1:33:33

happened to him will never happen

1:33:36

to anyone else.

1:33:37

But the truth is,

1:33:39

it has already happened.

1:33:42

Angie Dodge was murdered in 1996.

1:33:45

The tactics that police use to coerce

1:33:47

Chris into giving a false confession

1:33:50

have been used for decades and

1:33:53

are still commonly used throughout

1:33:55

the country.

1:33:57

If Chris's wrongful conviction tells us

1:33:59

nothing.

1:33:59

else,

1:34:01

the one thing it makes perfectly clear

1:34:03

is that we desperately need reform

1:34:06

when it comes to the way that the police

1:34:09

conduct interrogations.

1:34:12

As listeners of Sword and Scale,

1:34:15

you already knew that cops

1:34:17

are allowed to lie to you,

1:34:19

and that it's illegal for you

1:34:22

to lie to them. But

1:34:24

why is that? Why is

1:34:26

the citizen held to a higher standard

1:34:29

than the cop who is policing them? That's

1:34:32

a good question. For authorities,

1:34:36

lies are a means to manipulate,

1:34:39

which should probably not

1:34:41

be allowed, especially

1:34:44

in a murder investigation. I don't

1:34:47

know, what do you think?

1:34:49

Tell us your thoughts in the comments.

1:34:51

We've got to eliminate deception in the

1:34:53

interrogation room and other psychologically

1:34:56

coercive techniques using false

1:34:59

evidence, threats of consequences.

1:35:02

And there are alternative investigative

1:35:05

techniques that can be used. And

1:35:07

so we hope that Chris's

1:35:09

case is not in vain, and it's a moment

1:35:11

that we can learn from and enact

1:35:13

reforms to really make sure that

1:35:15

this doesn't happen to somebody else, and

1:35:18

we don't have to wait two decades for the next technology

1:35:20

to come out.

1:35:22

Granted, putting restrictions on

1:35:24

or making reforms to police interrogations

1:35:27

could make it harder for police to

1:35:29

solve crimes.

1:35:31

It could make an important and difficult

1:35:33

job

1:35:34

even more difficult.

1:35:37

If you oppose the idea of police

1:35:39

interrogation reform, that's fine.

1:35:42

As a true crime podcaster and someone

1:35:44

that covers hundreds of stories

1:35:47

of murder, I can certainly

1:35:49

understand why someone

1:35:51

would take that position.

1:35:54

But if you do take

1:35:56

that position,

1:35:58

then you also have to admit that.

1:36:00

that you think putting guilty

1:36:02

people in prison is more

1:36:04

important than keeping innocent people

1:36:08

out of prison. And

1:36:10

that's, using a word I

1:36:12

hate, problematic for

1:36:14

a number of reasons. With

1:36:17

regard to wrongful convictions, there

1:36:20

is another question worth asking.

1:36:23

Where is the accountability?

1:36:27

As a result of Chris Tapp's case,

1:36:29

Idaho Falls has agreed to pay Chris $11.7

1:36:32

million. Chris

1:36:36

undoubtedly deserves every penny

1:36:39

of that money.

1:36:40

But here's the thing. That money

1:36:43

isn't coming from the cops or prosecutors

1:36:45

that put them in prison. It's not

1:36:47

coming from their pensions or their retirement

1:36:50

funds. It's coming

1:36:52

from you, the taxpayer.

1:36:54

Specifically the Idaho taxpayer.

1:36:58

You are funding these people's

1:37:00

incompetence. Congratulations.

1:37:04

Don't forget to vote.

1:37:06

In America, we have

1:37:08

laws on our books that make it illegal

1:37:10

for a person to accidentally kill

1:37:13

someone. It's called manslaughter.

1:37:16

Shouldn't there also be criminal laws

1:37:19

against quote unquote accidentally

1:37:22

sending an innocent person to prison? Robbing

1:37:25

them of their freedoms? And

1:37:27

ruining their life?

1:37:29

I'm not

1:37:29

saying we should burn cops and

1:37:32

prosecutors at the stake. I

1:37:34

mean,

1:37:35

some of you may think that, but

1:37:37

that's not what I'm saying.

1:37:39

But it's not unreasonable to

1:37:41

suggest that when they make mistakes,

1:37:43

they should

1:37:44

be held accountable.

1:37:47

Isn't being held accountable what they

1:37:49

do to us?

1:37:51

Let their punishment be

1:37:54

proportionate to the damage that

1:37:56

they caused? Speaking

1:37:58

of. Chris Tapp currently

1:38:00

has pending civil litigation against

1:38:03

all of the detectives that were involved

1:38:05

in his interrogations and polygraph

1:38:07

exams.

1:38:09

As for Detective Jared Fuhrman,

1:38:12

he will never be held accountable. After

1:38:15

Chris Tapp was sent to prison, Fuhrman

1:38:18

rose to the rank of lieutenant, and

1:38:21

in 2006 he was elected

1:38:24

as the mayor

1:38:25

of Idaho Falls.

1:38:28

He served two terms before

1:38:30

being diagnosed with Alzheimer's,

1:38:33

and in May of 2022, the disease

1:38:37

killed him. He was 60.

1:38:40

Jared Fuhrman

1:38:42

was a father to eight children and

1:38:44

a grandfather to 17 children, and I'm sure

1:38:48

that throughout his life as a parent, a

1:38:50

cop, a mayor, he

1:38:52

did some noble things. Some

1:38:55

good things for

1:38:57

the people of Idaho Falls.

1:39:00

But his legacy will always

1:39:02

and should always be

1:39:05

tainted by the fact that he sent

1:39:07

an innocent man to prison for 20 years.

1:39:13

As of March 2023,

1:39:16

there are about 2.3 million

1:39:18

people in prison in

1:39:21

America,

1:39:22

and if you take a conservative estimate

1:39:25

and see that we only get it wrong 1% of the

1:39:27

time, that means that

1:39:31

23,000 people

1:39:34

are in prison right now for

1:39:36

crimes they did not

1:39:38

commit. In other

1:39:40

words, we know that

1:39:43

there are many more Chris Tapp's

1:39:45

out there,

1:39:46

and we know

1:39:48

that our justice system is rife

1:39:50

with injustice.

1:39:52

It's important for us to look at Chris's

1:39:54

case and others like it.

1:39:58

It's important to learn.

1:39:59

from them

1:40:01

and use them to make changes.

1:40:04

It's important that we demand

1:40:07

a better system of justice because

1:40:09

if we don't,

1:40:11

it's not out of the realm of possibility

1:40:15

that injustice could someday

1:40:17

find us or someone

1:40:21

that we love.

1:40:42

That's going to do it for another episode. Thank

1:40:45

you for joining us. If you're a plus member,

1:40:48

well, if you're not, first of all, go be a plus member,

1:40:51

go to swordandscale.com slash plus. But if you are

1:40:53

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1:40:55

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1:40:58

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1:41:06

and that you make sure that you update your

1:41:08

address so we can send you your stuff. See

1:41:11

ya. Hey

1:41:30

Mike, I'm a 911 dispatcher and

1:41:33

I just want

1:41:35

to say, go fuck yourself.

1:41:43

Just

1:41:50

kidding. Actually, I am a 911

1:41:52

dispatcher. I love your

1:41:55

show. I love that

1:41:57

you call out shitty

1:41:59

videos.

1:41:59

Dispatchers on their bullshit. I

1:42:02

actually reference your show all the time

1:42:04

when I'm training new hires on everything

1:42:08

not to do when they are handling

1:42:10

a Emergency call

1:42:12

keep up the great work keep playing the audio

1:42:15

keep calling us out on our shit when we don't

1:42:17

do our job Thanks for everything you do

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