0:00

Hi there and welcome along to

0:02

the Sunday Supplement Podcast with me,

0:04

Vicky Gomisore and the Assistant Editor

0:06

of the Mirror, Darren Lewis. Joining

0:08

us this week is the Chief

0:10

Football Writer for The Telegraph, Sam

0:13

Wallace. We're going to start with Arsenal

0:15

who return to the top of the Premier

0:17

League table with a tuna win at injury

0:19

hits Wolves. Michael Artert put their midweek Champions

0:21

League exit behind them with goals from Leandra

0:23

Trossard and Captain Martin Odegard as well. So

0:25

Sam, look, not a classic to watch, it

0:27

has to be said, but it was really

0:30

important for Arsenal to get back to winning

0:32

ways, wasn't it? Yeah, I think

0:34

the defeat to Villa at home last Sunday

0:36

is such a huge game against their former

0:38

manager as well and the manner

0:40

in which it was inflicted upon them and Villa played

0:42

really well in the second half would

0:44

have asked big questions and plus being

0:46

knocked out at the Champions League as

0:49

well. So Wolves

0:51

had lots and lots of injuries, had five

0:53

teenagers on the bench, Gary O'Neill was really

0:56

struggling with the depth of his squad,

0:58

but Arsenal went and

1:00

won that game, which is

1:03

crucial. I think if you look at the alternative, if

1:05

they don't get three points there, then things would

1:08

have looked really grim for them. Yeah, it would have,

1:10

wouldn't it? I mean, it was a difficult week,

1:12

Darren. They obviously play

1:14

again, don't they, against Chelsea before

1:17

City have a chance to play

1:19

as well. So that's going to build more pressure, you'd think,

1:21

on City if they can go even further in front of

1:23

the top of the table. Yeah, I

1:26

mean, I think the psychology of yesterday was

1:28

all important. Had

1:30

they not won, even if they'd

1:32

have drawn, our analysis of the

1:35

point would have been two points

1:37

dropped, Arsenal season unraveling

1:39

again in April. The stats suggest that

1:42

they do run out of puff in

1:44

April and given the

1:46

manner of the defeat last week at home

1:48

to Aston Villa and then against

1:51

what many people describe as the most disappointing

1:53

by inside for 12 years, the

1:56

feeling would have been unfairly so,

1:58

I have to say. that it

2:00

would have been characterised as a chunk of bottle.

2:03

I hate that term, I hate that phrase because you

2:06

look into the building of a team,

2:08

the work that Artet has done there to improve

2:10

the culture, bring down the playing

2:12

age, to recruit the right talent, not just

2:15

with ability but also in terms of temperament

2:17

and what they offer to the club. And

2:21

so I think they've done great work there so far

2:24

and for them to continue that

2:26

momentum yesterday by coming out and

2:28

responding to the setbacks. That's another

2:30

big step in their development and

2:33

obviously puts the pressure back on

2:35

City and Liverpool to continue

2:37

their momentum. And it was their

2:39

sixth successive clean sheet away

2:41

from home, the Premier League record actually is seven.

2:44

But a word for Leandro Trossard, somebody that

2:47

I've chatted to at length about his ability

2:49

and what he's done so far this season,

2:51

he's scored some crucial goals for

2:53

them, one of which was yesterday getting

2:55

them a going in

2:57

terms of that game. Should he

2:59

be a starter more regularly do you think or is he

3:01

just an impact sub and that's kind of the role that

3:03

he needs to play for Arsenal right now? Yeah,

3:06

it's an interesting question. He was... He

3:08

asked it everywhere. He's on commission. He

3:12

was signed, I mean arguably as Brighton's best

3:14

player and clearly they were, I think he

3:17

wasn't going to extend his contract so they made

3:19

the decision. I mean

3:22

one kind of thinks well if Martinelli,

3:25

Jesus and Saka are fit then they

3:27

start. But I mean

3:29

you have to look at the great City

3:31

team of the last five years, it's two

3:33

players for every position, it's different people coming

3:35

up at different parts, there's different players coming at

3:37

different parts of the season. So this,

3:41

I think this notion of managers are pushed back

3:43

on this quite a lot that the starting 11,

3:46

clearly if you're going to play the Champions League final tomorrow every

3:48

manager's got an 11 in his mind. But

3:51

players that finish games, they now like to call

3:53

substitutes finishers. Yes, we do, don't know what the

3:56

new phrase is. Which is a kind of rebranding

3:58

of what was once a slightly... stigmatised

4:01

position. I think whether

4:03

he starts or not will, they play so many

4:05

games as we will later discuss, there will always

4:08

be enough games for these lads. But

4:10

yes, I think if there was a Champions League final

4:12

tomorrow and Arteta had the full compliment set, he wouldn't

4:14

be in the side. It's quite refreshing

4:17

though to see a player that

4:19

doesn't get a regular start, to just

4:21

absolutely come on and do what he

4:23

does, I think. He's really impactful. But

4:25

that speaks to what I was saying before

4:27

about the recruitment. It's not just about the

4:30

abilities, the right kind of temperament. It's the

4:32

kind of player where if he's on the

4:34

bench despite playing well the previous week, he's

4:36

testing the game. Exactly. And you see those

4:38

kinds of players at Liverpool and at Manchester

4:40

City as well. And

4:43

you talk about the contributions he made to score

4:45

the winner against Everton earlier in the season, late

4:47

equaliser against Chelsea, winner in the Champions League

4:50

game against Porto, a late winner in that

4:52

game, equaliser in the first leg of the

4:54

quarterfinal against Bayern. Had he not scored that

4:56

goal, the advantage would have been,

4:58

OK, Bayern went on to win the tie

5:00

anyway, but he brings the tie level. He's

5:03

a guy who responds to pressure with

5:05

composure in the final third. That

5:07

is absolutely what Arsenal need, going

5:09

into a crucial stage of the

5:11

season. So

5:13

as far as he's got, and you spoke to

5:15

him last week, you did the interview with him

5:17

last week, and you can see the kind of

5:19

guy he is. Despite all the fanfare, the circus

5:21

and all the headlines about him, he still sees

5:23

himself as a team player. That kind

5:26

of thing is so crucial when you get

5:28

into this stage of the season. It's not

5:30

all about him. It's about what Arsenal, Arteta

5:32

and his teammates are trying to do. Just

5:34

before we get to the papers, I just want

5:36

to talk about Arsenal, because when you watch them,

5:39

they did look lackluster. Do you feel that there

5:41

was a phrase, I think Charlotte Duncan used it

5:43

in her Times report, saying that teams are running

5:45

on fumes. Is that a feeling that

5:47

you get from what you witnessed at the moment from some

5:49

teams? Yeah, this is a

5:51

really difficult, even these couple of weeks when you

5:54

think they've played Bayern Munich, then they've had Wolves

5:56

and then they've got Chelsea on Tuesday. So That's

5:58

just Arsenal's schedule. Is a hard

6:00

time and and them that the Premier League

6:03

is is rather an incredible standard. I know

6:05

we've come out of a week twelve any

6:07

go well as a as a country benefit

6:09

one seamless in Europe, but the intensity of

6:11

it is extraordinary and you only have to

6:13

watch. Yeah. A as to compare

6:16

see the i mean I was it the City

6:18

of Adventure game and I think a and a

6:20

half times out sense that you win that game

6:22

and and rally just gone. They looked exhausted needed

6:24

at the is a great asset to hang on

6:27

face on the edge of their area for about

6:29

sixty minutes and so I think. To

6:31

expect these players to maintain that standard all

6:33

the way through his is gonna be hard

6:35

to kind of intensity the were used to.

6:37

That's why we noticed the drop off am.

6:40

But. Yeah that's why the has these pics cause to

6:42

try and get and through these Really ready to school

6:44

my samaritan of the season. Their seventieth math and

6:46

today love on could lead us not into

6:48

his i'm. Terrible

6:51

Other paid the same because we've all.

6:53

we've really enjoying this three way. Race

6:55

And The Title. Absolutely. Awesome! very

6:58

much for himself initially. absolutely up

7:00

using every week some. I

7:03

think a lot of people kind of sleeping a be

7:05

on us me in terms of. Like

7:10

he directed for spread out there because

7:12

I was trying to find a way

7:14

to get them off the camera. Can

7:16

do have a suspension of trust. The

7:18

process of us knew at the moment

7:20

had the best defensive record here. Premier

7:22

League describe Rice is terrific. Much reports

7:24

and in it look at the subject

7:26

of the possibly describes what the had

7:28

as a week from how are they

7:30

be Absolutely right because all of our

7:32

jaws dropped when Aston Villa went to

7:34

the Emirates and took them apart with

7:36

a fantastic defensive display. And then those

7:38

goals in. The second half and then

7:41

by and beat them in the

7:43

Champions League and. Everyone.

7:45

Could be forgiven for thinking that

7:47

what would happen would be similar

7:49

to last season with a droplet

7:51

Skyn Southampton the West Ham instead

7:53

this again trust side of the

7:55

bed schoolroom. Oh god. Scoring well.

7:57

Fabulous technique for that. Goals. And

8:00

that defensive display to underline the

8:03

ballots in the side. And.

8:06

Graham is basically saying that it is.

8:08

The. Ability to keep the back door closed,

8:11

which could now prove crucial in these

8:13

final weeks of the campaign. You know

8:15

difference could they ever come from? Absolutely

8:17

that city can score goals to, but

8:19

that balance in the side they've recruited

8:21

so well. That. Could be

8:23

the difference as we go into what the final

8:25

four games at a season. I. Think wholesale innocent

8:27

till nitrous had nothing he was saying what

8:29

we've learned the also Mikel Arteta learn from

8:31

last year. If it isn't that would be

8:34

crazy to think that they hadn't learned from

8:36

Italy. Success he eats felt humiliating form at

8:38

times. Really the what what they went through

8:40

last season so you think that they have

8:42

to learn from that? Surely musical is a

8:44

half the story. Of the Premier League and

8:47

in dating recent one for by his

8:49

his team's they often grown close to

8:51

winning Apostles this was a croissants. it

8:53

also the season because it's he does

8:55

he look at my size finishing second

8:57

in Ninety two and then and then

8:59

what happened after that and it's Sissy

9:01

very as under the every television when

9:03

when close. A few times before they

9:05

finally won it in their when It

9:07

or Two at Twenty Eleven So I'm.

9:10

So. Yeah these these are the the is that

9:13

is the him. To. Sort of the

9:15

person but the distance the also is

9:17

they're up against what this is for

9:19

everyone is they're up against this to

9:21

skill I us in terms says you

9:23

have very very hard so Sonos decent

9:25

will more as as journalists we are

9:27

more forgiving of also because we understand

9:29

the context Documentary told us a lot

9:31

about the way that you take him

9:33

apart the old Osmonds construct in the

9:35

new else know we can see. Them

9:37

that. Would that that the the emotional lessons

9:39

I've learned was sealed. A team talks and

9:42

the lows. The. Highs so when

9:44

we do have much ripple or well

9:46

when we given analysis while school now

9:48

we do it for much was formed

9:50

point of view or the of into

9:52

a think it goes back further know

9:54

sounds bonus may not Aminu and I

9:56

both saw as twenty years ago as

9:58

young pups reporting on us. The anger

10:00

and I'd hire had a here of

10:02

the will issue different and of them

10:04

and. And also made the shoes

10:06

decision and attend the million to build the Emirates.

10:09

And they did it because that the the received

10:11

wisdom and was that you need is a big

10:13

state east oh the now really and then this

10:16

piece philo Grub harper he was was not really

10:18

sets of the twenty first century they could never

10:20

felt so they must First Roman Abramovich and then

10:22

segments of which completely changed the landscape and mobile

10:24

they were prepared to take that little bit a

10:27

pain in the in the noughties in order to

10:29

get the stadium bill and then go again and

10:31

to have stayed in their rivals method of course

10:33

London it's you can charge more for your hospitality

10:35

and and so on. And

10:37

I'm really. The landscape chose what

10:39

they were building it and any they never

10:42

really recovered they never recovered really because for

10:44

us to they got to That's the champs

10:46

a fun ones who doesn't six there when

10:48

the last time in two thousand and four

10:50

they were always chasing and city bull a

10:52

lot of stuff Blais minutes they simply the

10:54

they simply just couldn't this one as who

10:57

controls weren't strong legs am just so they

10:59

just fell behind and that the injustice that

11:01

pow they had is one of the to

11:03

great seems to support a turn and century.

11:06

Was. Us And and sadly the end of

11:08

saying this regime was what we all night

11:10

was it was. It was rather bizarre and

11:12

unhappy. So that's that's the kind

11:14

of big pitch may and and they still they

11:16

have built by very well Thank you and ancestral

11:19

money they have to to not just a sign

11:21

players but to try plays out and to get

11:23

rid of players based on a fantastic job on

11:25

that they all were. They are now as a

11:27

club that doesn't have. A. Billionaire owner

11:29

which really has to. A

11:32

as of at what he does have a billionaire and it

11:34

just has never been in aaron of it's going to spend

11:36

as much as others davis. Is is a

11:38

great season. Gets.

11:50

The as he kept that much the city recovered

11:53

from their champions thing to supplement admit that their

11:55

place in the final piece in Chelsea one now

11:57

been out of service for the only goal of

11:59

semi. The amount of a bit of redemption

12:01

was an alpha hate missed a penalty in

12:03

that played a big part in a shootout

12:05

defeats to Real Madrid for to remain on

12:08

course for another premier League and F A

12:10

cup double but after the game gaudy on

12:12

his sat at shuttling he felt some it

12:14

was one of the greatest thing she seen

12:16

from a group of players and given the

12:18

recovery time that they had since since the

12:20

disappointment around Madrid and kind of getting their

12:22

heads for I think that's what he was

12:24

trying to allude to. The fact that it's

12:26

not just about is a tentative it's about

12:28

respecting your brains. And. He

12:31

said that the current full calendar

12:33

is unsustainable. Do. You agree

12:35

with that. It kind of who dictates the shed

12:37

yeoman and is easy right in some way. For

12:40

certainly agree with his for deploying the bones

12:42

as they must have. It is to threads

12:44

who are these got a point on the

12:46

on the picket about a twenty four hours

12:48

later. the most managers will be upset about

12:50

that of. P. M broaden

12:52

the out though to to a much

12:54

wider point which he starts mentioned you

12:56

I saw and and the Fisa Club

12:58

World Cup so just just deserves summary

13:00

The Champions League as big a next

13:02

season so this is could be a

13:04

big change that we're gonna have a

13:06

group stage games preferred a playoff round

13:09

between the group stages and the knockout.

13:11

still since the group stage will go

13:13

into December of sorts of January so

13:15

we were used to be finished by

13:17

Christmas. And to sleep in. Another

13:19

issue the those as I can't replace

13:21

the that we've lost. That's because of

13:23

those Champions League games. those two extra

13:25

group stage shampoos they guys. Next

13:28

summer's to see for club World Cup

13:30

which is a thirty two team to win

13:32

over June and July him as city

13:34

will be in it he mentioned as

13:36

well. So yes the calendars expanding was

13:38

expanding because is basically a war between

13:40

you a from say sorry for the

13:42

for the brew costs wealth of the

13:44

game sites they want the biggest clubs plan

13:46

their competitions were saying gives them the

13:48

control of the of what broadcasters will

13:50

pay televised matches. And what's

13:53

happened is this just more more matches?

13:55

So I think. the

13:58

general estimate is that the players who gets three

14:00

weeks off in the summer.

14:03

The mid-season player break, which we know about

14:05

in January, where they split one match day

14:07

round over two weekends, so half the clubs

14:09

are off for one week, then the next

14:11

week, the other half the clubs off, that's

14:13

going. FA Cup replay's gone.

14:16

And of course the Premier League and the FA

14:18

and the EFL get the blame for these things,

14:20

but really this is being dictated on a global

14:23

level, and it's being dictated by UEFA and FIFA,

14:25

who are, as we've said, in this battle

14:27

to create the big competitions. And

14:29

I'm afraid they are doing it with

14:32

the clubs can I have them. So the clubs seem

14:34

to be happy, the biggest clubs seem

14:36

to be happy with these bigger competitions because

14:38

it's more games, which means more money from

14:41

the broadcasters. So it's this kind

14:43

of circle of blame that's going around. Guadiolo

14:45

was specific in one sense, he said to the BBC, why

14:47

could we not play this game on Sunday? Okay, I understand

14:49

that. But if you look on

14:52

the grand scale, why are we playing, why is

14:54

the global game, the elite players playing more and

14:56

more games, it is being driven by the clubs.

14:58

I'm not just talking about Manchester City, I'm talking

15:00

about big clubs right across Europe, what we call

15:02

the leading members of the

15:05

European Club Association. They are the

15:07

ones driving this change. It wouldn't happen unless

15:10

they were asking for it. I'm not sure

15:12

broadcasters are queuing up to say, we really

15:14

want to televise a club World Cup, there's

15:16

32 teams, we never had anything like that

15:18

before really. So I

15:22

always think when the managers say this, I certainly

15:24

sympathise with them, but I think they need to

15:26

have hard conversations with their own clubs about

15:29

the exponential growth of the game and where this

15:31

is going. And what effect that might have on footballers'

15:35

well-being, but also on the quality of the games that

15:37

we're watching, because there's no doubt about it. The

15:41

standard has dipped, and we expect a lot from these young

15:43

lads. We expect top performances week in,

15:45

week out, and we're very critical of them and

15:47

they don't deliver that. But we also have to

15:49

understand that for

15:52

the 100 years of professional football, no one has

15:54

played more games than these boys. Of course, no

15:56

one has ever been paid more money to play

15:58

those games, but they're still human beings. the

16:00

physical toll is pretty steep. Talking

16:02

to another manager as well about what happens in

16:04

the summer break. The summer break doesn't really work for

16:07

a lot of them either because they're going on

16:09

these epic journeys to

16:11

cover sponsors and where they want them to play and so on. So

16:14

it's kind of like they're being tugged in all directions.

16:17

In terms of the game itself, let's go

16:19

back to that then because Chassis are going

16:21

to rue their chances, aren't they, in this one,

16:23

because they really did have opportunity to get

16:26

the better of City in that game yesterday. Yeah,

16:28

I mean, Sam made some really good points about the

16:30

context of it, which is important because it wasn't that

16:32

City played badly. It was that they were playing 66

16:35

hours after playing in

16:38

a very attritional Champions

16:41

League quarterfinal that

16:43

took a lot of emotional as

16:46

well as physical mentality

16:49

effort from

16:51

the players. So I

16:53

think as far as this competition was concerned,

16:56

this contest was concerned, it was a really

16:58

good opportunity for Chelsea to take their chances.

17:00

And actually, they did so well to create

17:03

those chances, but they just couldn't take them.

17:05

Nicholas Jackson, I know you're going to

17:07

say he's there, he's creating a chance, but

17:09

surely that's exactly what he's got to do,

17:11

is chip it over the keyboard? No. Listen,

17:14

there are a number of things he could have done that

17:16

would have been better than what he did do. I

17:19

know. I think, listen, he's

17:22

very raw. The

17:24

context, I know Matt Law did a

17:26

terrific piece for The Telegraph around Nicholas

17:28

Jackson as a man who's just not

17:30

not just learning the game, but

17:33

also his own personal circumstances mean

17:35

that a lot is

17:37

being expected of him after a very short

17:39

space of time. And I know we work

17:42

in a very emotional, febrile, impatient

17:44

industry that demands that

17:46

when you pay a lot of money for a

17:48

player in moments like this, they've got to be

17:50

taking their chances, the opportunities we saw

17:52

a second ago. Can we just talk

17:55

about that though? Because that's a, you know,

17:57

here we have, we've got Grealish. touch

18:00

from the ball, not deemed to be

18:02

handball, but then it doesn't

18:04

go out for a corner. Yeah,

18:06

it was a really interesting kind of kink

18:09

of the rules. So the players were appealing,

18:11

well the Chelsea players were appealing for a

18:13

handball, but also appealing for a corner. And

18:16

unfortunately, Michael Oliver and his

18:18

assistants didn't see it. But of course, as

18:20

soon as the screen says there's a VAR

18:22

check, possible penalty, they know that there's, it's

18:24

at least a corner. But the

18:26

rules don't allow you to go back and

18:29

reset and give the corner because VAR is

18:31

only for certain categories and it doesn't include

18:33

correcting corners and throw-ins. So

18:36

David Koot was the VAR,

18:38

he had a look at it, he reviewed it, he

18:40

didn't think handball. To be honest, Pochettino didn't make a

18:42

big deal about it afterwards. I think in the moment,

18:44

there was a strong feeling that it was handball. It

18:48

was definitely a corner. Really

18:52

good point to bring in the papers, if that's

18:54

all right. Because I'm going to go with your

18:56

paper and you can talk us through it and

18:58

you can do the work. But

19:02

it's a telegraph coverage, but I don't

19:04

just want to show you on that

19:06

report, Sam, across the bottom. Look at

19:08

the headline, use your suspects, keep track

19:10

of the double. I want to show

19:12

you this bit up on the top,

19:14

referee's view. That's Keith Hackett. And

19:16

he is saying that there should have been, he should

19:18

have at least been sent Michael Oliver,

19:21

the referee, should have been sent

19:23

to the monitor. He says in

19:25

his view, Jack Grelish's

19:27

actions were deliberate. This is

19:29

Keith's view. And because

19:31

he made his body shape bigger. The

19:35

problem is that, it's

19:37

what I said to you last week, Vicky, VAR

19:41

is basically replacing one level of

19:43

subjectivity with another. So

19:45

you have Michael Oliver and David Koot, who

19:47

was a VAR, saying, no, he didn't try

19:50

to make his body shape bigger. And you've

19:52

got an ex-referee saying, actually,

19:54

he did. But it's not subjected to

19:56

the fact that it came off his hand and went out and

19:58

it should have been a... That

20:00

was objective. Keith says that as well.

20:02

And the question remains, why was there

20:04

not a corner? And that's what nobody

20:06

watching the game could understand. And you've

20:08

got a couple of officials in front

20:10

of a monitor just like us, seeing

20:13

the same things just like us. So

20:15

it's inconceivable that they could have missed

20:17

it. I think, look, I

20:19

mean, David can't tell Oliver to go back and

20:21

give the corner. And

20:23

Michael has a top referee. It's just

20:25

saying it hasn't been spotted there. He's just on the wrong

20:27

angle. Keith's a colleague

20:30

of mine. He doesn't often agree with the referee, I

20:32

have to say. So I think he won't mind me

20:34

saying. But

20:38

yeah,

20:40

the whole notion of body shape, and we're looking

20:42

at Jack Grealish there, the whole notion of body

20:44

shape and where your arm is and what's the

20:46

natural position is a really, really difficult call to

20:49

make. And

20:51

I think in this instance, really, I think

20:53

they've probably taken the easier option. Yeah.

20:55

I think just in general, Tom, I mean,

20:58

we say on the show, Sam, it

21:02

becomes a bit unfair and a bit

21:04

tiresome to just keep hammering officials all

21:06

the time. So we're not about hammering

21:08

the officials. But if everyone watching the

21:10

game has an identical

21:12

level of incredulity that the board has

21:14

gone out for a corner

21:16

and that corner is not awarded, then it's

21:19

legitimate to ask, well, why was that not

21:21

the case? And as you say, which

21:24

is quite important, that VAR only adjudicates on whether

21:26

it's a penalty or not, but doesn't allow to

21:28

be able to say, well, actually, you should let

21:30

the ball go out for that. You should rule

21:32

that they should have had a corner. Which begs

21:34

the question. Anyway, right, OK.

21:37

Let's go on to Cole Palmer, the one that got

21:39

away or wanted away twice, according to Pep. I know

21:41

all the talk has been largely about

21:43

the fact that what have they missed, what a

21:45

city missing in terms of Cole Palmer. Would there

21:48

be a moment, do you think, though, for Cole

21:50

Palmer yesterday, sort of watching

21:52

what city did and thinking,

21:54

gosh, should I have stayed? Well,

21:57

I don't pretend to know his mind. There was a very good

21:59

piece by him. James Ducker in

22:01

the Telegraph about his upbringing

22:03

and where he came from in Wyvernshaw

22:06

and his immersion in his father's

22:08

Sunday League team was wonderful kind of

22:10

story of how you create. He's actually

22:13

a Manchinited fan, he doesn't try and

22:15

hide that. Clearly Manchinited Cities Academy is

22:17

a prodigious producer and owner of raw

22:19

talent and

22:21

it is also a very useful revenue

22:24

income because they have

22:26

done a remarkable job of

22:29

generating of

22:31

a PSR compliant cash by selling Academy

22:34

players and what I like, one of the

22:37

things I like about PSR is it means

22:39

you just can't keep every player. You have

22:41

to make difficult decisions and I'm

22:43

sure Karl Palmer was a very difficult decision to

22:45

let him go because they will know better than

22:47

anyone what a talent he is. But

22:50

that is the game strategy that all these teams

22:52

are obliged to play on the PSR that you

22:55

cannot stockpile players, that sometimes you have to let

22:57

go the ones that you actually really quite like

22:59

and Chauncey are facing that this summer as

23:01

well, that's not fair. So yes I

23:03

think there are probably times this season where

23:05

they would like to have been able to call upon him but

23:08

the good thing is he has become a star at another

23:10

team. He certainly has, I mean he feels like

23:12

he's dragging them up on his own. There was a

23:14

tweet somebody wrote yes, I forgive me because I can't

23:16

remember what they said, in terms of their names but

23:18

it said if only we had Karl Palmer to pass

23:20

to Karl Palmer to school. It's like that's exactly what

23:22

it felt like, you know he was the only one

23:24

that pitched that was going to do anything. For

23:27

Maurizio Pochettino that's now three FA Cup semi-finals

23:29

he's lost, two with Tottenham and then obviously

23:32

this one yesterday. A lot of

23:34

sympathy for him though at the moment because this is a raw

23:36

team that he's having to do a lot with. I'm

23:39

a broken record on this but I've

23:41

said many times the best person for

23:43

these players is Maurizio Pochettino. I've

23:46

got to point you in the direction of

23:48

a terrific piece by Jacob Steinberg in The

23:50

Observer today who talks all about the fact

23:52

that if the owners are watching and

23:55

they see the progress that Chelsea have

23:57

made given how shambolic they were up

23:59

until what about... a month ago when

24:01

they played Manchester United and they contrived to

24:03

lose a game they should have won in

24:05

the dying minutes. They

24:07

must be pleased with the progress the team is

24:09

making, even allowing for

24:12

the finishing of Nicholas

24:14

Jackson. I remember before I

24:16

joined national newspapers the great Brian Warner

24:19

who wrote for the silent. He

24:22

assessed a very raw Nicholas Anelka who

24:24

at the time was a teenager in

24:27

his first season at Arsenal. I remember

24:29

the frustrations

24:32

we all had at the time at the fact

24:34

that his finishing was very raw, very similar to

24:36

Nicholas Jackson. But the following

24:38

season we were all celebrating Anelka because he

24:40

scored the goals to help Arsenal to win

24:43

the double and that's how

24:45

quickly it changes. I think

24:47

Nicholas Jackson will have

24:49

that composure over time and he's

24:51

got the right energy to keep

24:53

faith in him. I covered

24:55

Spurs when Pochettino put his faith in

24:58

young players like Harry

25:00

Winx for example who didn't get looking after

25:02

he left but started him against Real Madrid

25:04

and had the confidence. Do you remember we

25:07

did the Mondays didn't we? We

25:09

asked Pochettino are you going to start with him

25:12

and he said yeah at the burn about and

25:14

you're up against some stellar talents there but

25:16

Pochettino was a guy who says no I

25:19

don't care why are we so excited with

25:21

the likes of Ameren potentially coming to the

25:23

Premier League because he's the guy who puts

25:25

his faith in young players and says to

25:27

owners keep your money I love this player

25:29

I'm going to turn him into a superstar.

25:31

I think Pochettino will do that with this

25:33

squad. I do well to persuade the NHL's

25:35

owners to keep their money in their pocket.

25:39

That's the one thing they don't tend to do. No

25:41

they don't. I do want to reflect

25:43

on what happens midweek because obviously the

25:45

great game against Everton six-nil in the

25:47

end and then we're all talking about

25:49

the argument that went on. Pochettino had

25:52

already spoken about the fact that he

25:54

has got a team that is lacking

25:56

maturity should we say and what we

25:58

witnessed was a really immature debacle

26:00

in front of all the cameras

26:02

from with Madawecki Jackson and then

26:04

Cole Palmer involved as well. What

26:06

did you make of it? And incidentally Madawecki

26:09

was also seen kind of laughing with Grealish

26:11

at the end of the game yesterday as

26:13

well after you know losing in an FA

26:15

Cup semi-final. Well to take

26:18

the final point I think

26:20

we have to remember they are very

26:23

young men and these cameras are on

26:25

them all the time and they sometimes

26:27

forget and they do know all these

26:29

a lot of these guys they know

26:31

each other from junior international football and

26:35

I think he's obviously

26:37

just made a mistake Madawecki

26:40

I don't think he deserves to be pilloried for

26:42

it and he's just a young bloke and

26:45

has probably got another game in three

26:47

days time so you know it's

26:50

not really I don't think we

26:52

should give it the significance

26:55

that some obviously a lot of supporters get very

26:57

upset about these things but but I

26:59

think we can pass on that and on the other point

27:01

I mean Jackson clearly wanted that penalty because he's

27:04

just struggling for goals and he wants that confidence

27:06

and he wants that little boost and he shouldn't

27:10

have done it I mean Cole Palmer's the best

27:12

penalty taker in the league now I think now

27:14

that Harry Kane's in the Bundesliga he's and

27:16

and the last thing your penalty taker needs is to

27:18

just have to fight his teammates before he's got a

27:21

stick it buzz to goalkeeper so it was a mistake

27:23

and and it's not the first time it's

27:25

happened at Chelsea this season but I think that is I think

27:28

I think that is a little bit of the kind of if Chelsea

27:31

feel like a club a little bit without hierarchy

27:33

because so many players have come and gone I

27:35

mean no one would have tried to take the

27:37

ball off Frank Lampard because there was a very

27:39

established hierarchy but because they've cleared out so many

27:41

footballers and even the caps in kind of Gallagher

27:43

he's had a good season he's it's

27:45

constantly suggested that he will leave

27:48

as well because they need to sell it yeah

27:50

so there's this strange strange sort of lack

27:53

of a core leadership

27:55

or that leadership has been undermined

27:57

somewhat and I think these things happen as a

27:59

consequence Well papers making chef.

28:02

Will show you one. We've already done

28:04

the telegraph's let me say this is

28:06

in the Mail on Sunday Sunday. More

28:08

belts First terrific cheese title now so

28:11

chief news gather a nice guy that

28:13

I gather is wrong. but second sailing

28:15

respect to see so book s at

28:17

added the did but this is a

28:20

terrific analysis of Nicholas Jackson. Yesterday

28:23

I am dumb. I like his into

28:25

gonna read a little bit of of

28:27

the intro. He says that no one

28:29

did. Nicholas ducks were so desperate. State

28:31

penalty against Everton last Monday because esp

28:33

at this is the way that he

28:35

finishes in open play than he needs

28:37

or the help he can get to

28:39

meet you would be forgiven for thinking

28:41

that this is a take down of

28:43

Jackson. Actually he sympathetic to Jackson and

28:45

he says vs to I've been saying

28:47

to you the raw materials are there

28:49

he just needs molding is twenty two

28:51

years old. Time is. On his side.

28:53

and I really do think so. I'll

28:55

give a bit of context with this

28:57

once. Ten goals so far this season

28:59

for Nicholas Jackson the same number in

29:01

the first season that Didier Drogba scored.

29:06

At the sense that to their people forget

29:08

about how quiet it was subdued was still

29:10

out on him often says say Simba and.

29:12

Even added won the title and know for it

29:15

as I for advice but he became one of

29:17

the great. Tv.

29:22

Not an end to the created because

29:25

it is crucial, retained in a battle

29:27

sustain it tastes teams in one six

29:29

title and at least and separatists damage

29:31

and five on to think about that,

29:34

that was it Can without his last.

29:36

Funny this dead last in survival helps

29:38

by beating Shepherd United for one apple

29:41

lane so ants Newton point behind seventeen

29:43

place. Nothing for snacks replaced. Dropped. By.

29:46

Robert was but he's gonna be probably more

29:48

concerned about the man with of the the

29:50

deceit to feel at this stage of the

29:52

season. Yeah never good

29:54

to be on the end of the I'm

29:57

I'm I didn't see the game but my

29:59

my media. This is the it brings

30:01

it up. Quite a direct team as

30:03

well. Say that this is. Visa.

30:06

To similar styles of clearly Can

30:08

Usa has been fantastic As a.

30:11

As. A place picking up points silly and as

30:13

any nearly promotes a team is day really needs

30:15

rely on their home phone. So yes this is

30:17

obliged. And. City

30:20

that luna still in it that they

30:22

could still survive now is is he's

30:24

testament to think. Most.

30:26

The sort that they will be addressed by

30:29

now. Sites that in itself is and Seedsman

30:31

bigger picture they've got. This. Is a

30:33

hundred million pounds season. That's what you get.

30:35

Something in me more than that little bit

30:37

more than that. as if anything even in

30:39

the bottom fray the premier league and and

30:41

one suspects that they will as they were

30:43

spend that money was then said got a

30:45

new stadium comings and so whatever happens. This

30:47

have been a good season stay in the

30:50

premier league also and I've been in for

30:52

a same she went and saw before the

30:54

Premier League was created an. So.

30:57

He added that to go back to a says you so

30:59

I mean that sent us a heavy want to hide but

31:01

I think I think the supporters will ever that they are

31:03

of sleep with the same and with the manager. Yeah,

31:05

that's it. Yeah but you can is feels like

31:08

Can was fired a stand. Think we're going that

31:10

it's sell a little bit like nothing. So I

31:12

yeah I do. I feel that they'll the satin

31:14

a man like some of them have almost relied

31:16

on. Come on Can always try to get in

31:19

the the line sometimes in in that she's the

31:21

season and a half or something. then they've been

31:23

a tough months by feel like Kenilworth. vote. Is.

31:25

Slightly. What do I know? The opposite

31:28

of he lives idea. I look at the Kenyan

31:30

still seats. Stadium

31:32

and a home base

31:34

thought. The. Do a specific start

31:37

a season. Nobody would believe that they

31:39

would would be above decide that cross

31:41

the championship most season of Nobody would

31:43

believe that the side that come up

31:45

didn't have the ground up to primly

31:48

specifications. had to go rooting around the

31:50

bargain basement to find quality of managed

31:52

to attract leadership in towns and and

31:54

barkley and gone to shit with a

31:56

group of players all of whom had

31:59

the right mental. He to keep compete in

32:01

a top division. I

32:03

think there's so much about what have achieved

32:05

so far so meritorious that the Is A

32:07

For may have got games. Gets Everton the

32:10

for hims come at a Kenny Everton I'm

32:12

still not convinced by defensively full A will

32:14

be on the final. I will either on

32:16

the final dialed again before but by then

32:18

you know players sometimes they're on the beach

32:20

by then. The safe in the For in

32:23

the Premier league. It's

32:25

a hard one but I still think they can stay

32:27

up. I'd go an hour and lemon south. Still think

32:29

that live in could stamp want. To live in

32:31

a flip flops and some berries. I think that

32:34

the fight against a lot less of that burnley

32:36

then and they gave themselves with a sudden that

32:38

with is convincing victory as a chef as united

32:40

and is this a great escape to sink they

32:42

could. Set. Eyes. They.

32:45

Are supposed to be looking at points appeals

32:47

and so they they They spend lot money

32:49

at the start season and them they have

32:51

some really good young players so. I

32:54

mean the rule of thumb is as you go

32:56

down you need us to sell because that's how

32:58

you managed to maintain along with your parachute payments

33:01

a squad that that can fight back from promotions

33:03

I think they have. they have bought well. Am.

33:06

I. Just wonder what the owners feel about

33:08

having invested so much about thought thing eighth

33:11

and it's a theme it was so they

33:13

will be bottom. Ten bucks has been tough.

33:16

I might have come back for that very shortly

33:18

and see the say with a saucer the right.

33:20

As promised, I'd send it in see the signs

33:22

Alison. Proceed

33:32

immediately. T T V Sitting in A T

33:34

V needed to be defending the state headed.

33:36

Into the huge little had Ally.

33:38

See you on Sky Sports ever

33:40

since Has Nottingham Forest nuts for

33:43

Liverpool? Visit Salience at four Pm

33:45

on ahead of that game ten,

33:47

Alexander Arnold sat down with that

33:49

Davison to discuss the weakest setbacks

33:51

whether live Fulton sanitizer, mice around

33:53

and young plot imminent departure. He

33:56

put his finger on what happens in the last.

33:58

Week. or so I

34:00

think over the last three results I think she

34:05

thinks we'll be pointing to the main

34:07

attackers who have not taken chances or

34:09

we've not been clinical enough

34:12

and I think that is true.

34:15

If you ask all the attackers now should

34:17

they have taken the chances in, would it

34:19

have been different than the answer would have been

34:22

yeah but no as a team

34:24

we need to keep

34:26

going because those chances will keep happening. I

34:28

think we're confident in the end that they

34:30

are both finding the back of the net

34:32

against you and as

34:34

a team we're confident that we'll keep creating

34:36

them. Yeah the results in the league haven't

34:38

been great for us the last two but

34:41

it gets to what of a good

34:43

result with LBB in Arsenal which softens

34:45

the blow from Sunday but you can't

34:47

take that for granted. We should have

34:49

been in a position to capitalize and

34:51

potentially if those fixtures are reversed and

34:54

they play first and we play second

34:56

then maybe it would have been a

34:58

different mentality going into it. Do you wonder how

35:00

the Palace game might have gone had Arsenal lost

35:02

the villa in the early kickoff? Yeah I think

35:05

it all comes out to mentality. I think

35:08

it's all about your perspective on the game and

35:10

what you need to get out of it. I

35:12

think Arsenal's results, I think our result played part

35:14

in Arsenal's results as well. I think they would

35:17

have seen it got potentially a little bit too

35:19

excited and thought this is our chance, this is

35:22

what we need to do and maybe overthought some

35:26

things whereas if us and City are both one

35:28

it was just we need to win and that's

35:30

it rather than this is a chance to break

35:32

away from the path. I mean I was actually

35:34

at their game on Sunday and I just wonder

35:37

whether for yourselves and for Arsenal that slight sinking

35:39

feeling maybe it's more the supporters than the players

35:41

does that come from City

35:44

basically what they've done before the

35:46

fact that they've been perfect

35:48

so often and they've seen out these situations so

35:50

many times before. You know when you get into

35:52

a tight or issued city you know when it

35:55

gets the turn of the year they

35:58

are borderline perfect and You

36:00

can't really slip open and make

36:02

mistakes. So now when you do

36:04

lose those points and you give them the upper

36:07

hand and It's

36:09

difficult because they don't they don't really blink

36:11

in those moments. They don't seem vulnerable they

36:13

don't seem like they're gonna drop points they

36:17

It's like a well machine So it's just

36:19

like this what they do with the cliff

36:21

and there's not there's no stopping them So

36:24

now to give them the advantage with what six

36:26

games to go is Almost

36:31

hadn't in the title, I think All

36:34

we can do is just be in a position to

36:36

capitalize and hope that somebody does us a favor, but

36:38

it sounds like you're thinking Kind

36:41

of like most the rest of the game. They're big

36:43

favorites now Exactly. If you if you don't play them,

36:45

it's not your hands, you know, all we can do

36:47

is be in a position So

36:50

hopefully if they do slip and if they do

36:53

drop any points to be in in

36:55

a position to capitalize and Hopefully

36:57

that does come whether

36:59

those are those in our hands and but

37:04

You know, they are a fantastic

37:06

team Manager

37:10

and The squad that they've

37:12

brought is It's hard to think

37:14

that you know they

37:16

won't when they had this point I think but

37:20

Stranger things have happened in the prairie. Is

37:22

there a sense no matter who wins it? Come

37:25

back to the situation with the manager. It can't

37:28

finish with a whimper

37:30

after how special the last few

37:32

years have been as a team and

37:35

As a group with it with the staff

37:37

and the manager it's gonna be our last

37:39

last title race our last end of the

37:41

season push and the last

37:43

running So you want to

37:45

give it absolutely everything this awesome It's just to do

37:47

it for the manager But you know as a group

37:50

under the settings and the feeling and

37:52

the vibe around the camp And

37:55

the infrastructure it's our last proper pushes

37:58

as a group before

38:00

big changes come in the summer. Fascinating

38:03

interview there with Trent Alexander. I don't know whether

38:05

it was the darkness of the room but it

38:07

felt quite low key didn't it? And he sort

38:09

of almost admitted that

38:11

they'd handed the title to Manchester City in

38:13

the fact that they both lost Arsenal and

38:16

Liverpool last weekend. Do you agree with that?

38:19

Well I mean he doesn't, he's the man at the centre

38:21

of it, he's one of the men at the centre of

38:23

it. So it was quite downbeat yeah he did seem to

38:26

be quite pessimistic about things. I

38:28

understand there's only six games to go in his city,

38:30

win all of them that's it. But

38:32

I think the form of the three teams is a

38:34

lot more volatile than that. I think we've seen that

38:37

this week and even

38:39

yesterday really this city and

38:41

so my personal views

38:43

and I'm not the centre of it like he is

38:45

that there's a bit more to play for but maybe

38:47

there's a bit of psychology there, maybe he's saying

38:49

oh look you've won it now. Perhaps

38:54

that's a strategy on his part I don't know but I

38:57

still feel like there's more to come in this title.

38:59

Yeah he almost alludes to the fact there'll be a

39:01

twist in it. I love the perspective from him as well

39:03

that we were all talking about before about the psychology and

39:06

I even asked that to Mr Larceter in the press conference

39:08

saying you know is there a different psychology when you're playing

39:10

at the end of the weekend to playing at the beginning

39:12

of the weekend so and so forth. He kind of says

39:14

yes there is you know he sort of said if

39:17

their game had been after Arsenal's defeat that might have

39:19

given them the verb to think caw will go on

39:21

and win it and he felt also the fact that

39:23

they lost that gave Arsenal

39:25

the kind of like oh we've got this and they

39:27

really didn't have it did they against that. Yeah and

39:29

that's going to be a feature of the last what six

39:32

games now four in some cases

39:36

but you know I still think the mentality at Liverpool is strong

39:39

and they've won five of their last seven

39:41

away games. I think Tuesday

39:44

night just gone they played at Atlanta and

39:46

okay they went out of the competition but

39:48

what was quite key about the match was

39:50

that was their first clean sheet I think

39:52

in 10 games and the fact

39:54

that they could go away and

39:57

suddenly find a way to keep that

39:59

back door shut. Okay, Atlanta's form has

40:01

wobbled a bit recently, but even against

40:03

sides of lesser ability, Liverpool have been

40:05

conceding goals. So I

40:08

think that clean sheet was very significant.

40:10

And I think going into this final few

40:12

weeks, even though the messages are being sent

40:14

out to Seti, okay, it's yours, you've got

40:16

it. Obviously Seti have

40:19

been around a block too many times to

40:21

be seduced by all of that. And anyone

40:23

who's seen their documentaries and stuff will know

40:25

all about the team talks and the mentality

40:27

and the invincible spirit that Guardiola's

40:29

managed to forge within his squad of leaders.

40:31

So they won't be taken in by any

40:33

suggestion that it's theirs now for the taking.

40:36

But I don't write Liverpool off at all.

40:38

There's far too much football to be played.

40:40

And these guys are far too experienced to

40:42

buy into the idea that it's all done.

40:45

At the top of the industry who is talking about

40:47

the sort of criticism that's come around the

40:50

front three misfiring, is

40:52

that a fair criticism? Do you feel that they're

40:55

just not quite getting it right? Even

40:57

Klopp himself has said that the fact that Mo

40:59

Salah isn't clicking at the moment, only

41:02

becomes a problem when everyone else doesn't click as

41:04

well. So that's a fair assessment of what's going

41:06

on at Liverpool at the moment, do you think? Yeah,

41:08

I mean, he's been honest there. He's laid it,

41:11

the defender has laid it at the feet of

41:13

the attackers. Yeah,

41:15

I mean, there's always gonna be

41:17

some finger pointed when

41:21

teams are not winning games.