0:09

Kevin: Hello and welcome back to the airwaves, the space waves,

0:14

the subspace waves of subspace.fm.

0:17

It's Subspace Radio, Rob! Rob: We're back.

0:20

It's been far too long. Kevin: It has been, I forgot how this show started.

0:24

That's how long it's been. Rob: There was a promise at the end of our last episode that possibly

0:29

there would be a Discovery discussion.

0:31

That has not happened yet. Kevin: There's still time.

0:34

Rob: Yeah, I'm holding off to the last possible minute for me to indulge

0:37

in the last season of Discovery before we go to the very last.

0:42

Kevin: There's still time because Discovery season five is still off

0:45

there in the later this year, date to be named, future and also no spoilers

0:53

at all, but as has always been true of Discovery, I suspect season five is gonna

0:59

be a brand new thing and it's not gonna matter if you've seen season four or not.

1:04

That is what I'm tipping. Rob: That sounds a lot like Discovery that I know.

1:09

Kevin: Yeah. But we're not here to talk about Discovery.

1:12

We've got a new episode of Strange New Worlds. Rob, this is the show that made us start Subspace Radio.

1:18

Rob: This is where it all started, Kevin.

1:20

We are here and we're actually reviewing a whole season of Strange New Worlds, not

1:25

coming in two thirds of the way through. Kevin: Although, maybe we should have, is my immediate, without

1:31

tipping my hand, my preview thought about what I thought of this episode.

1:34

Maybe we jinxed it. Rob: I was I was watching it and I'm there going, there are things here

1:39

that I know Kevin Yank will not like

1:41

that we touched on from conversations when we saw the original trailers

1:45

come out for this and stuff. So yeah, Kevin: So Strange New Worlds, season two, episode one, The Broken Circle.

1:52

I don't know about you Rob, but I did a rewatch of season one in the week

1:55

leading up to this so that I was fresh. And I have to say season one is even better the second time around.

2:01

Rob: I've just bought my copy on Blu-ray, but then I just discovered

2:05

that in regions other than Australia, you can get it in beautiful 4K.

2:11

So I have Kevin: I did the US import, yes.

2:14

Rob: the UK import, so I will have both the Blu-ray and the 4K version.

2:18

Kevin: And just while we're talking tech specs here of our Star Trek, I have to

2:22

say this first episode of season two of Strange New Worlds appeared, first of

2:26

all, it appeared a day earlier than Star Trek normally has been in Australia.

2:30

Usually they make the Australian region wait a day from its

2:35

original airing in the US. This time it came out pretty much day and date.

2:38

It came out within hours of it dropping in the US, which was great.

2:42

Thumbs up to that. Thumbs down, unfortunately, the soundtrack was in stereo only.

2:47

Rob: Yes. Kevin: Huge first world problem here.

2:50

But for those of us who like to hear our starships swoop across

2:54

the room it, it was a, I was like, what have I got the setting wrong?

2:58

No. The Paramount Plus, although it had HDR video, the soundtrack was stereo only,

3:04

and in this episode there were certain scenes where it was kind of hard to

3:08

understand what people were saying. And having all of that dialogue crushed into just those two

3:13

channels was not helping matters. Rob: I'm glad you brought that up cuz it was an issue for me.

3:17

So I had to put up the subtitles just to, so cuz some things were missing

3:21

and there was, the mix for me was all over the shop because of my, non

3:25

stereo screen that I was playing off.

3:28

But we are back. It came in with the swagger of a 1950s or early 1960s American college footballer.

3:36

It was coming in cocky, it was coming in confident, it was coming in strong.

3:41

All I could say is they showed their money in the first two or three minutes.

3:46

Kevin: Oh, that shuttle voyage around the space station was, Ooh I was

3:50

going, I can't tell what's different here, but this is a different

3:53

portal into the Star Trek universe. It feels more real, it feels more tangible in some respects.

3:59

I don't know if it was just the shaky cam, the virtual lens they chose to shoot that

4:04

vista through, but I felt the g-forces of that shuttle swooping around that starship

4:10

in a way that we're not used to seeing. Rob: And we have seen that space station before.

4:14

It's not Kevin: It is the Enterprise's home base for this entire series.

4:17

It's, yeah, there's been entire episodes set there, but we never

4:21

got the grand tour like we got here,

4:23

Rob: We saw, yeah, very different type of biospheres and all that type of stuff.

4:27

So it's not like Spacedock from the original movies and from Picard,

4:31

specially season three, but it gave us a little bit of a whirlwind tour in

4:36

all its glorified CGI money shot of,

4:39

Kevin: That conference room with the ships in the background, I have to

4:42

say that has gotta be a quite a, like a meeting power move to roll in with

4:47

your ship, park it in the distance there, and then walk in and go, oh

4:51

yeah, that old thing over my shoulder. That's my Enterprise.

4:55

Rob: But, um, yeah, we are, back and they've done the brave and ballsy move

4:59

of our lead character, our lead actor, our captain pretty much going AWOL

5:05

in even before the title sequence.

5:07

Kevin: Yeah. I appreciate them going Okay.

5:11

We know you love Pike, but we're gonna make you wait for Pike for an episode and

5:16

we're gonna spend a day with our other characters, here, and see how they work

5:21

together without, Papa of the bridge.

5:23

Rob: Pappa hair quiff? Kevin: Yeah. And I applaud the attempt, but I really did, I did miss Pike's presence,

5:35

especially in a season premiere that is gonna kick off the new season.

5:38

Rob: I loved it. I loved it. So I'll be in the camp of, I loved it.

5:42

I really embraced it. I like what they're doing.

5:46

I like what what new depths they're bringing to some characters.

5:49

So M'Benga who was defined by the tragedy of his daughter last season.

5:54

Kevin: Yeah. I'm glad they're finding something new for him.

5:57

Cuz uh, there there was that worry there. Rob: And adding more to Chapel, which I really liked.

6:01

Ethan Peck for me is going from strength to strength.

6:04

Some incredibly beautiful sequences and shots.

6:07

There were some, for me, some unnecessary shots that kind of were a

6:12

bit ridiculous, that have been commented in some reviews as being really good.

6:16

And I was a bit, ooh. It's slow motion doesn't, isn't always your friend.

6:21

And I'll just finish off by saying Carol frigging Kane.

6:27

Kevin: Uhhuh. Rob: I have adored Carol Kane since I was, since I could understand what

6:33

a performance was and everything she has done is incredible and the energy

6:37

she has brought to the show, that new life we were talking about, the

6:40

freshness of someone who's been in the industry, over, over 30, 40 years.

6:45

She, oh my gosh, she's amazing.

6:49

Kevin: I am not an avowed Carol Kane fan, but I do agree, like

6:53

she is bringing something fresh. Like I, I can't tell if I like it or not yet, but it is new.

6:59

And I don't mind my Star Trek challenging me and Carol Kane's presence on that

7:04

bridge is definitely challenging me. Rob: There's the thing.

7:06

It's a weird thing cause there are similarities, and maybe I'm reading

7:09

too much into it, of when Anson Mount jumped on set for the first episode

7:15

of season two of Discovery, he just brought a fresh, new energy and breath

7:21

of fresh air that just broke outta the stuffiness and the internalization drama

7:26

that was like season one of Discovery. And he just brought this cool energy and everyone on the bridge

7:32

introduced themselves and we all went, oh yeah, we didn't know any of

7:36

these people for an entire season. Kevin: Thanks for fixing that, Anson Mount.

7:40

Rob: And in her own inevitable fashion with her own weird, incredible accents

7:44

like she did in Taxi, like she's done in Scrooged and every other performance

7:49

that she has done, she brought in that same type of energy, the stuffiness

7:53

and the we're to cool for school nerds that is the new, this Enterprise crew.

7:58

She just comes in and just blows it out of the water.

8:01

And I love that almost anarchistic energy that she's bringing.

8:06

But that's me because I'm already in her court.

8:08

So it'll be interesting to see how we both evolve with our opinions of the character.

8:13

Kevin: Yes, indeed. I have to say I came away from this episode a bit cold.

8:18

Um, there were long moments where M'Benga and Chapel were punching up Klingons

8:24

in the hallway where I was sitting there bored and going, is this the

8:28

Star Trek I've been looking forward to?

8:30

Rob: It was shot really badly. Those fight sequences were shot really badly.

8:35

And they Kevin: Yeah, it, they felt twice as long as they

8:38

Rob: Yeah, they, and they stayed far too long in slow motion on sections where you

8:42

could see the choreography, and you could see the holding back and the shifts, and

8:47

I'm they're going, that's bad editing. That's bad shooting.

8:50

That's not the actors' fault. The actors came across as looking ridiculous because they weren't looked

8:54

after by their director and editor.

8:56

Kevin: Yes. I will agree with all of that and go further and say that a story of doctors

9:02

stuck behind enemy lines being resolved by let's pump ourselves full of bloodlust

9:08

juice and punch all the Klingons, that is not the kind of story that I think

9:14

Star Trek is setting out to tell.

9:17

It feels to me like a lazy, let's put some action on the screen, proposal

9:23

that that I wish they had taken a second crack at that part of the script.

9:27

Rob: Look, both actors are incredibly talented in, in as actors, but it

9:32

takes a certain skill and it's just not something you can throw yourself

9:36

into to do fight choreography, stunt choreography and stuff like that.

9:39

They did let down their actors here just to, haven't they ever

9:43

thought heard of a Jefferies tube? That's done.

9:45

It's been done over 50 years as a way of getting out multiple times.

9:49

They're on a false Federation ship.

9:52

Go up a Jefferies tube, guys, and you don't even need to

9:55

go on slow motion for that. Kevin: Yeah, there was the slow motion.

9:57

There was the moment that they lifted up the floor of the corridor in

10:00

order to jump down to the deck below.

10:03

And the camera, for some reason flipped upside down so that they

10:08

jumped up through the frame and then it flipped upside down again, so they

10:13

landed feet down on the floor below.

10:15

And the flipping, I was like, oh, are they like going into a

10:19

floor that has reverse gravity? What is the camera trying to tell us here?

10:24

And then they landed on, one floor down with the same gravity.

10:27

And I was like, oh, the camera's not trying to tell us anything.

10:29

They just are trying to make it exciting by flipping the camera around.

10:33

Rob: There were a lot of moments of definitely style over substance.

10:37

And that was a moment that I stood out and I went, you are just trying

10:40

to do something that looks cool as opposed to the things have been done

10:44

before in, other genre shows where they use camera trickery, or camera

10:50

things like that to, like you said, tell a story and give a justification.

10:54

But this was just put into look cute and to look impressive.

10:58

And it didn't justify anything. There was a moment later on when the Enterprise was attacking the fake

11:04

Federation ship and just how the camera moved for the Enterprise to

11:08

be upside down, that type beautiful change of gravity perspective stuff

11:12

is great and lovely and perfect. I'm going do more of that.

11:16

As opposed to that was just really stood out for me as a director trying

11:20

to show themselves to be clever and not really servicing the plot.

11:24

So yeah, I saw that as well. Kevin: Yeah, lots of highs and lows this episode.

11:27

And in general I thought the action beats left me cold.

11:31

They did not quite work as well as they were intended.

11:34

A lot of the character beats worked really well though.

11:37

And, once M'Benga and Chapel got cornered in that airlock and made

11:41

the decision to jump out into space and they were like, we've gotten

11:44

out of situations worse than this.

11:46

And she goes, no, not really. And I was like, then I was there with them.

11:51

I was there with those characters and it felt like they were sharing a moment.

11:56

Rob: And the drama of Spock. Oh my God. Kevin: Spock at the end, cheersing the blood wine, Yarr!

12:03

like a Klingon was hilarious.

12:06

All of that stuff worked. Rob: And it wasn't robotic and it wasn't like emotionless and stuff like that.

12:12

M'Benga said it, and it's been said before, Vulcans feel emotions

12:16

more than humans, and they use these techniques to suppress it.

12:21

That's why the Romulans don't, because Romulans are the twin, race of them.

12:24

But you can see the emotion is there, but he's just it's controlled in the surface.

12:29

I went That's, yeah, that's another tip of the hat, when Nimoy would go, well done.

12:32

It was this beautiful Rawww! Yes, indeed.

12:36

I will have more wine. Yes. Blood wine. Kevin: What are the things that you thought Kev's not gonna like those?

12:42

Rob: Oh, it was the one that they talked about in the trailer of, Spock

12:46

saying, I would like the ship to go now. And they, but there's, it was just built in the trailer, but there's a whole thing

12:52

around it and I'm there going, okay, this is becoming far too self-aware.

12:57

Kevin: Yeah. Yeah, it it's ridiculous.

12:59

Rob: It was almost a scene that you'd expect to see in Lower Decks,

13:04

and that would be appropriate. Boimler and Mariner talking about that type of stuff and Mariner with the

13:10

sleeves rolled up going, mine will be, guns-guns-guns, pew-pew-pew!,

13:13

But that, it came across as there was Star Trek nerds talking about it,

13:18

but they were trying to do it as they were Starfleet nerds talking about it.

13:23

And so that was, for me, that was the swagger of a 1950s, quarterback

13:28

going, we can do this, man. We're the flagship show.

13:30

We can be, we can steal from everything and we can do all this.

13:34

And I went don't, that's great kid, but don't get cocky.

13:37

Kevin: Yeah, all of that is true. And also we have seen this beat in three successive seasons of Star Trek, like

13:44

every show in every season at some point now has someone new sit in a captain's

13:51

chair and then we have the scene where it's are you gonna say a thing?

13:55

And it's done. It's done. It's like it's past funny.

13:58

It's past not funny. Rob: Three, three types of shows are doing it now.

14:01

And now it's a thing, and it never was a thing, but

14:04

Kevin: It never worked. It didn't even work the first

14:07

Rob: No, it was cool. When you didn't mention it, it was cool when you, and we just

14:11

go, yeah, that's really cool. And now they're making it a thing and it's going, it really is they are

14:17

becoming quintessential Star Trek nerds going, oh no, you just by bringing

14:22

it up, you don't really know what cool is and you're making it worse.

14:26

But but yeah, I've been singing his praises, but the, getting back to that,

14:30

those character beats, you're like talking about where they're really good at, like

14:33

the, the pressure and the tension and decisions he had to make as a captain

14:39

of they're waiting, and he's there going, I need to fire these torpedoes.

14:43

Be, but, and the fear and the tears and the,

14:47

Kevin: And Chapel's on that ship. Rob: Yeah.

14:49

And that moment when he comes and he's there going, I waited for you.

14:53

And you're there going, and at the end where he is there going,

14:56

I can't desc, I don't know how to describe how I'm feeling right now.

15:01

You're there going this is it. This is good. This

15:03

Kevin: I love the swings they're taking because they could be playing it so safe.

15:07

The fact that we know where these characters end up later could

15:11

be prompting such conservative, careful, let's not disturb the canon

15:17

storytelling, but instead they're taking giant swings that are painting

15:21

those future events in new lights. But yeah, do it take those big risks cuz uh, as a as an opposite example that I'm

15:29

going to bring up in a moment proves, safe star Trek is not good Star Trek.

15:36

One detail I did notice was they mentioned the rogue ship was a Crossfield class

15:41

ship, which is the class of Discovery.

15:43

Rob: Yes, it did look a little bit Discovery. Kevin: The saucer was definitely a Discovery saucer.

15:49

The back end was a completely different thing.

15:51

It had Enterprise style engines, slung low with a triangle, secondary hull,

15:56

well not triangle, but more of a, like a V-shaped secondary hull vertically.

16:00

So the back end looks completely different from Discovery, which we're

16:04

told is also a Crossfield class. So either there are several ways we can justify this for ourselves, and I

16:10

haven't decided which one I believe yet. We could say.

16:14

Discovery's backend was modified for the Spore Drive that it was

16:18

a modified Crossfield class. And the only other Crossfield class we've seen was the Glenn, which

16:23

is a ship that kind of twisted itself inside out experimentally

16:27

in the second episode of Discovery. And that they were also doing spore drive research on that ship.

16:33

So the two spore drive Crossfields had the big giant backend.

16:37

Maybe that's it. The other thing we could say is this was assembled from parts.

16:41

When they scanned it, the computer went Crossfield?

16:44

It's got a Crossfield saucer, dunno what the rest is.

16:46

We'll call it Crossfield. So maybe it was a Frankenstein Crossfield.

16:50

Rob: What I was thinking as well. Yeah. Kevin: So yes.

16:53

I would sum it up as an episode of highs and lows.

16:55

There are things that I loved as much as anything else we've gotten

16:59

in Strange New Worlds so far. But overall, I kinda I stood up at the end of that episode and

17:04

went that was a bit disappointing. Um, and I think it was just because all the pieces didn't quite come together into

17:11

a satisfying way, or that prolonged action sequence at the middle of the episode.

17:16

Everything that was connected to that suffered as a result.

17:19

The core, the glue that stuck all the nice pieces together was not to my taste.

17:25

Rob: For me, I could, yeah, I think the whole was greater

17:29

than the sum of its parts. And I was happy to have it back.

17:32

It was I enjoyed having focus on our ensemble and the confidence they're

17:37

having and that family coming back, and uh, looking forward to next week.

17:41

Kevin: We were gifted that focus by Anson Mount stepping out of

17:45

the spotlight for one episode. And that is the theme we chose for our delve into Star

17:50

Trek history, this episode. We are going to explore other times the captain has stepped away and

17:56

made room for other characters.

17:59

And I don't know about you, Rob, but I had a real hard time

18:02

finding other examples of that. Rob: Look, today has been a day, normally we have ourselves about a week to

18:08

find topics and stuff, and I am a chin deep in the end of my term at school.

18:14

So we are doing reports at the moment. Kevin: Oh, no.

18:16

I'm sorry to do this to Rob: Oh no, not at all. Are you kidding me?

18:19

I was looking forward to getting home Friday evening and watching

18:23

Star Trek to just send off the week.

18:25

But today has been a day of rewatching Strange New Worlds episode one,

18:30

hunting desperately to find episodes that relate to the topic that,

18:35

that Francine here came up with. And and finish and finishing off my reports.

18:40

So I have found my equivalent of it.

18:44

Kevin: Look, I'm kind of happy with what I came up with, and as we've

18:46

established before, there are no rules.

18:49

Pick an episode of Star Trek and tell me why you love it.

18:51

That's what I'm here for. So I'm gonna go first with the original series season three,

18:57

episode nine, the Tholian Web.

19:00

as we know, season three of the original series is uh, it, it, it is

19:05

a, it is a rough ride, put it that way.

19:08

But here in episode nine, for me is a bright spot.

19:11

Much like this week's episode of Strange New Worlds, there are things

19:15

about it that don't quite work. It's a little rough around the edges, but the Tholian Web is an excellent episode.

19:22

It's a classic episode of Star Trek because it is one of, if not

19:27

the only time where Kirk, William Shatner steps out of the limelight.

19:31

And we get to see what his crew and what specifically Spock and Bones

19:38

have as a relationship without him.

19:40

Because so much is made of that triangle that like the three

19:44

of them work so well together. That that bones is the heart, Spock is the brain, and and Kirk is

19:51

Rob: is the groin. Kevin: The groin, absolutely.

19:55

Whatever metaphor you prefer, that the three of them, like they support each

19:59

other's strengths and flaws perfectly.

20:02

And when you take one of those away, what is left?

20:05

And what is left in the thon web is that very dysfunctional relationship.

20:09

So at the start of Tholian Web, there's a transporter accident.

20:13

Kirk is presumed lost.

20:15

Spock does some science and goes, here's how we can get him back.

20:18

The science fails, and then Spock is convinced that Kirk is lost.

20:24

And so they hold a memorial service where Spock gets up in front of the

20:29

crew and he does a typically Spock job of memorializing a crew member.

20:34

He basically says, look, I can't tell you what he meant to you.

20:37

You all need to figure that out for yourselves.

20:39

Let's bow our heads in silence. That's pretty much it.

20:42

Rob: Thanks, Spock. I would like you to mourn now.

20:44

Kevin: Um, pretty much the moment Kirk disappears, Bones seems suspicious, and

20:52

he outright accuses Spocks on several occasions, once on the bridge in front

20:58

of the bridge crew of relishing this opportunity to rise to the captaincy

21:05

off the back of his friend's death.

21:09

And Bones is plotting Spock's downfall because he thinks Spock

21:13

does not deserve the captain's chair. And they, this is the ugliest, I think in the entire series that

21:20

the two of them get to each other. And Spock does a marvelous job of just like water off a duck's back.

21:26

But he is this the kind of stone face that you know it's hurting him inside.

21:31

Rob: Yeah. Kevin: And then there is a beautiful scene where they go to Kirk's

21:35

quarters to watch the final message, the like, in the event of my death,

21:42

open this envelope sort of message.

21:44

And they watch it. And Kirk basically says, look Spock, you're in command now.

21:49

You're gonna have to make some tough calls.

21:52

I've always believed that part of being a captain is operating from instinct.

21:57

And if you can't find that in yourself, go and look to Bones.

22:01

I've found him a great source of counsel, and he can be that for you

22:04

when you can't be that for yourself. And Bones, Spock is captain now.

22:09

You need to respect that. You need to do what he says.

22:12

But also realize that even Spock is capable of human error, human weakness.

22:18

Not even Spock is immune to that. And you need to support him when he needs it.

22:21

And they both look at each other and go, I'm so sorry, and apologize

22:25

to each other, and mourn, Kirk's passing in their own moments.

22:29

Eventually, of course, they rescue Kirk.

22:32

And then Kirk says, in the final moments on the bridge before the end

22:35

of the episode, Kirk's like, so, um, I hope my final orders were helpful.

22:40

And they both look at each other and go, what final orders?

22:43

Oh, sorry. So much was going on. We didn't have time to watch them.

22:46

And they pretend not to have seen them. And Kirk's like, oh, I put a lot of work into that.

22:51

Oh well. And that's the move to the credits.

22:53

But yeah, a lovely episode, The Tholian Web.

22:56

Rob: That's a good one. That's a, that's, yeah. Pretty much captain's away because he'd be almost dead.

23:02

Okay. For me, mining my my beautiful version of Star Trek Deep Space Nine, which

23:07

is become my wont to do, I found out that, of course Avery Brooks did every

23:12

single episode of Deep Space Nine.

23:15

Kevin: Of course he did. I was on Google going, what episodes did Patrick Stewart direct?

23:20

Because he's probably not in those a lot.

23:22

Rob: And even the one that like Avery Brooks directed, like

23:25

he took the lead in as well. So you're Kevin: Of course he did.

23:29

Rob: he did. Of course he did. So I had to look at what type of episodes could be considered

23:34

that, Sisko light episode. And I've tried searching that and.

23:38

And Google let me down. I knew what I could rely on cuz I'm a Deep Space Nine fan, so, they

23:44

always were good value and they would be a Sisko light episode.

23:48

A lot of fans took a while to like them.

23:51

Not many fans liked them within the franchise, but I loved them.

23:54

So I looked at the Ferengi episodes.

23:57

Kevin: Yeah. Rob: Classic episodes where you knew that Sisko would be in the background.

24:01

He'd probably pop in at the start for a little, or he'd be there as the,

24:04

with a sage bit of advice at the end. So I'll look at a little bit Family Business, which is season three, episode

24:10

23, directed by Rene Auberjonois written by Ira Steven Behr and Robert Wolfe.

24:16

And so that's the first time they actually go to Ferenginar and

24:18

that's where you find out the deeply misogynistic, capitalistic culture

24:23

that is Ferenginar to the extent of it.

24:25

Kevin: Is this the one where we meet Moogie? Rob: This is where we meet Moogie for the first time.

24:30

And Moogie is a wonderful creation, a beautiful, beautiful

24:34

performance by Andrea Martin. It's just, yeah.

24:37

And she stays with the show then on.

24:39

And so how she defines Quark and Rom is a great episode.

24:44

And we get deeper knowledge of the Ferengi culture.

24:47

That's what I love about Deep Space Nine is they took that time to, as opposed to

24:51

going from planet to planet, we found out we could constantly go back to Ferenginar.

24:56

We could constantly go to Bajor to Cardassia and find out more about

25:01

these cultures as opposed to just, what special bumps we have on the eyebrows

25:05

and the bridge of the nose this week. Kevin: Yeah, it's like these characters in a pressure cooker on a space station,

25:11

make them bump into each other in every which way that you can imagine.

25:14

Then when you need a little more grist for that mill, send them

25:17

back to their home worlds, get a a top up of what makes them them,

25:22

Rob: Exactly. Kevin: them back. Rob: So that's a beautiful, setup that you have.

25:26

It makes it difficult to find a "captain's away" episode because

25:28

Sisko's always at damn ship. So it's a great episode to, to get introduced to that deeper knowledge of of

25:36

Quark's backstory and an introduction of Moogie who is just a wonderful character.

25:40

And then where Rom starts becoming a regular character.

25:44

And as a side note in the B story with Sisko, Kasidy Yates

25:47

appears for the first time played by the brilliant Penny Johnson.

25:51

But the other episode that I'll sorta like refer to in this block is a much more

25:56

well regarded episode from season four, episode eight, Little Green Men, which

26:01

we've touched on a little bit before. And that's just an iconic episode, time travel as well.

26:07

Kevin: Yes. A little remembered time travel episode.

26:10

Rob: And it's a, another captain away. You get Sisko a little bit at the end, but it's Rom and Quark are taking Nog

26:17

to Earth cuz he's joining up with the Federation, the first Ferengi to do so.

26:21

Um, they get wibbly wobbly, timey-wimey stuff and they get sent

26:24

back to Roswell, 1949 and they're the justification of the alien invasion.

26:30

And of course Odo stows away with them and it gets caught up in it

26:34

and Quark arrested at the end.

26:36

So it, this is a out and out classic.

26:39

This is one of the better remembered episodes and one of the highly

26:43

regarded episodes of Deep Space Nine. And is always up there with some of the best episodes of Star Trek television.

26:49

Directed by James Conway and story by Toni Marberry and Jack Treviño.

26:55

So those are two episodes that's kinda like, just wanted to mention and drop

26:59

and just how great they are showing the Ferengi culture and different situations.

27:06

One more of a family drama. The other one, the Ferengi comedy elements brought in this

27:12

iconic time travel episode. Kevin: Yeah I love how both of those are great examples of Without our normal cast

27:20

members around, particularly the captain, what does a character like Quark become?

27:24

Like, what face is Quark putting on at all times because Sisko's got his eye on him?

27:30

That when you take that away in one situation or another,

27:33

what does Quark become? So yeah great adventures to go on with him there.

27:37

I'm gonna go back and watch the Little Green Men, cuz I, I literally remember

27:40

almost nothing except, military uniforms and it was in Roswell, New

27:44

Mexico, and so I've gotta re-watch that Rob: It's a really good one.

27:47

It's a really fun one. And Armin Shimmerman is one of the greatest gifts in Deep Space Nine.

27:52

And him working off Rene Auberjonois is great.

27:54

Yeah, just that. Expanding on the characters that we have, expanding on

27:59

how they deal with situations. And this is like the birth of the almost anti-hero within Star Trek.

28:04

These are Ferengi who are seen as, gonna be the major threat before the Borg

28:09

were introduced into Next Generation.

28:12

And how, from a race of beings who come from such a misogynistic, such

28:18

a capitalistic culture, how can we actually learn to, empathize with these

28:23

characters and how can they evolve being a part of our culture as well?

28:27

Kevin: It's a great magic trick when you can take like an objectively

28:31

unlikable character trait and put it on a character that we've learned to love.

28:35

And then, that's a challenge to the audience. Rob: So yeah.

28:38

Kevin: My second episode is I went looking for a TNG.

28:41

I looked real hard for a time that Captain Picard left the Enterprise

28:45

and people were left behind. And I mean, we've already talked about Chain of Command fairly extensively

28:51

when they're sent away on that mission. But we also go with Picard in that episode, and that's what's

28:56

happened again and again is when Picard leaves the Enterprise.

28:58

We tend to go with Picard rather than stay behind.

29:02

There's uh Captain's Holiday where he goes to Risa, but we spend the bulk of

29:08

that episode on Risa with Captain Picard.

29:10

Not really any great examples there for TNG, but that did send me to Risa, where I

29:16

found an episode of Star Trek Enterprise.

29:19

And I think I am going to make a note to myself for future episodes of

29:23

Subspace Radio is that if we're gonna talk about Enterprise, we should talk

29:26

about it in canonical order, before TOS.

29:30

Because inevitably the Enterprise episodes, they're not that great.

29:36

There are some good Enterprise episodes.

29:39

I struggle to think of any great Enterprise episodes with all apologies

29:43

and respect to the people who worked really hard on that series.

29:48

Rob: Gotta be, there's got, like this is what the internet was born for.

29:51

Kevin: Best Three Enterprise Rob: Yeah, nerd nerds making lists of what the best episodes are.

29:56

There's gotta be a list out there on Den of Geek or somewhere that

30:00

says, these are the best the, if you're gonna watch any Enterprise

30:04

episode, these are the ones to watch. So that's what I can watch.

30:08

Kevin: This is not one of them. And it is uh, Star Trek Enterprise season one, episode 25, Two Days and

30:14

Two Nights, in which the Enterprise visits Risa for the first time.

30:19

And the crew draws lots to see who will be allowed to go down to Risa for for

30:25

shore leave, and who gets to stay behind.

30:27

And Captain Archer goes down to Risa, and because he is a stick in the mud,

30:34

he gets a private hotel suite and decides to lay in the sun and read

30:39

a book with his dog for his holiday.

30:42

But what that means is that everyone else goes off and has fun without him.

30:45

And so it is kind of a, when the Captain's away part because the

30:50

other people partying on Risa don't have a captain around, so

30:53

they get to let it all hang out. Rob: Woohoo. Kevin: There are a few people left behind on the ship, notably T'Pol,

31:00

our Vulcan first officer, and Dr.

31:03

Phlox, who decides to take the occasion to go into one of his long hibernations

31:07

where he mostly doesn't sleep, except when he does, he sleeps a real lot.

31:11

So he decides to sleep for two full days.

31:13

And so he takes an injection and says, don't wake me up

31:16

unless there's an emergency. And of course, there's an emergency.

31:20

Rob: Wah-wah. Kevin: Which leads to, I will call it a clown routine.

31:24

The scene where T'Pol and Ensign Cutler have to wake up Phlox from his

31:30

torpor in order to treat a suffocating Travis Mayweather in, in sick bay,

31:36

who fell off of a rock wall climbing. This scene where they wake him up and he's just sleep drunk and talking nonsense.

31:45

The funniest line is I don't care what it tastes like, he's just lying in bed

31:50

with his eyes closed, sh shouting that. This gives me an excuse to reference a YouTube channel that I highly recommend

31:57

called Ryan's Edits, where he does this series of videos called Star Trek Intakes.

32:03

And this guy has managed to source from little birdies inside

32:07

Paramount unreleased bloopers from all the various Star Trek series.

32:13

And he edits them back into the original scenes.

32:16

He matches like the color grading, he matches the sound and it, and

32:20

then he allows the scene to play out with the blooper in it, as if

32:24

that was what the character did. I will not explain it further for fear of ruining the joke, but there a couple

32:31

of weeks ago, there was a excellent intake posted of this very scene of

32:36

waking up Phlox from his hibernation where none of the other cast members

32:41

could keep a straight face as he was shouting nonsense from his bed.

32:45

So go and watch that instead of watching this episode.

32:49

Rob: He's a wonderful actor. John Billingsley, he's great.

32:51

I'm watch, currently watching at the moment The Man From Earth, which

32:54

is a infamous bottle episode type of movie and Billingsley's in it.

32:59

And he's great. He's such a wonderful actor. I love seeing those heavily made up actors.

33:04

He has stretched their stretch, their acting chops without the makeup on.

33:08

Kevin: It's a high point of this episode that otherwise is fairly forgettable

33:11

because of the same reasons that I find Enterprise in general fairly forgettable.

33:17

This was Star Trek playing its safest.

33:20

Going back to what I was saying here about Strange New Worlds about even when it's

33:24

not working, it's not working because they took a big swing and every once in a

33:28

while one of those risks doesn't pay off. But here in the early two thousands, Star Trek was, I feel like playing it safe.

33:36

They were at the end of 10 years of Star Trek on TV continuously, and they

33:41

were afraid to break the franchise.

33:43

And this is, I think what ultimately sunk Enterprise as a series and had

33:49

it not get its full seven seasons is they, like they were painted

33:54

into a corner in every respect. They were doing a prequel so that they couldn't break any of the cannon.

34:00

And it was, it was network television, prime time, so they couldn't do anything

34:06

risky with characters or story for fear of upsetting the advertisers.

34:11

This episode is an example of that. You send these characters off to Risa, and, ostensibly they get

34:16

themselves into trouble, but the trouble they get themselves into is

34:19

such a watered down vanilla variety.

34:22

Tucker and Reed go into a bar as tourists and they're like, we hear this is where

34:28

all the sexy ladies in, in Risa hang out, so we'll just sit at this table

34:32

and wait for someone to proposition us. And sure enough two sexy ladies show up and say, Ooh we'd love to show you the

34:39

secret gardens of Risa, and they allow themselves to be led into a basement where

34:43

they get mugged for their communicators, or whatever, and wake up the next morning

34:48

in their underwear and have to shamefully scurry out to, to find a communication

34:53

station to get back to the ship. That's the kind of trouble they get themselves into this episode.

34:57

Rob: Yeah, we talked about it before, like with Voyager was trying to do this brave

35:01

new thing about taking it outside of their comfort zone, into the Delta quadrant.

35:06

And like we talked about, there's this whole arc that they could establish

35:10

and create about limited resources, limited crew members and stuff like that.

35:14

But they fall back on the old routine.

35:17

And I'm not sure if it's a reaction to, because Deep Space Nine didn't

35:21

really, even though it went for its seven seasons, didn't hit

35:24

that same mark as next generation. Because at that time, in the late nineties doing such big arc season work

35:32

was revolutionary and is now embraced by, streamers and television viewers.

35:37

But it was a bit too avant-garde back in that time.

35:41

So maybe the lessons they learned were wrong and they went let's play it safe.

35:46

And cuz Enterprise could have been so interesting.

35:48

They didn't have the universal translator. There's only limited space and all this type of stuff.

35:53

But like you said, they went we'll give the impression that it's big

35:56

and new, but we'll just play it safe. The only daring thing they do is what they do with the opening credits.

36:02

And if that's a risk, it's not worth taking.

36:06

Kevin: Yeah. It's so easy to say in hindsight, but I think you're right that the response

36:10

to, oh, we don't have as many viewers as we used to, is let's be more cautious

36:15

instead of let's be take bigger risks.

36:18

Rob: Let's try and be more like what those shows were, the show was, that

36:23

got us this success in the first place and fundamentally take away from what is

36:28

unique about that actual specific spinoff.

36:31

And it's not even writing it like Next Generation.

36:35

They're just doing these safe generic type of story plot lines that you

36:39

could see in any show, any procedural show, any cop show, any drama show

36:45

that doesn't stand out as anything unique, which is such a shame.

36:49

Okay. My final episode, like you were talking about, is how our

36:52

characters cope without that safety blanket of, a Picard or a Sisko.

36:58

And we're going to one of Bashir's finest moments and one of the most really

37:03

deeply depressing, powerful episodes.

37:07

We're going season four, episode 23, The Quickening, where Bashir, Dax

37:12

and Kira sent on a mission and they arrive on a plague-ridden planet in

37:17

the Gamma Quadrant where the Jem'Hadar have punished the residents of that

37:22

planet for defying and not joining the Dominion by poisoning the entire planet.

37:29

And it's lethal. It slowly it appears in like spider like lesions on your body, and

37:36

when it is inflamed and takes you over, that's called the quickening.

37:41

And there's no cure. And and you die slowly and horribly.

37:45

And Bashir is there trying to find a cure.

37:48

Everyone else leaves, but he stays. And he makes a connection with a young pregnant woman who is inflicted by it.

37:56

And she sadly dies, but he helps the child live.

38:01

And with the medicine that he's trying inside in the pregnant

38:05

woman, the baby is, has the cure.

38:09

So the baby is not affected by the quickening.

38:11

So what that means is they can, in, they can give this vaccine to

38:17

the mothers who will die, but their children will live and the next

38:21

generation will not have this disease.

38:24

And he comes back at the end and he's, given all this praise and stuff, and

38:28

Sisko's there as the guiding figure to go, you've done an incredible job,

38:32

what you've done for this people. And just the loss and the, what was lost to get some sort of hope.

38:39

And what that means as a doctor for Bashir is a powerful episode.

38:43

It's directed by Rene Auberjonois. So knocking out of the park again, and that's that almost safety blanket

38:48

of having Sisko around is gone in this, and Bashir really steps up

38:53

and it's incredible performance. Kevin: Remember this one being gut wrenching.

38:57

I, it was 20 something years ago now, but I remember the first time

39:01

I watched this episode on the day it aired and getting to the end of it

39:04

and going that wasn't a happy ending. It was that twist the knife happy ending.

39:08

Bashir saved the day, but we're all left devastated

39:13

Rob: It's, so I, yeah, I remember watching it for the first time and

39:17

like when I've gone back to rewatch it in my watch of the whole season, it's

39:22

one you just go, oh, can I skip ahead?

39:25

And you can't. It's riveting and it, everyone is firing on all cylinders.

39:29

And despite the fact it's 1996 budget television with, filmed out

39:34

on location in somewhere in Southern California or whatever, but the

39:39

script knocks it outta the park, the direction's knocked outta the park.

39:42

The actors are in fine form and it just brings it.

39:46

Kevin: This is what I wanna see when our doctors are stuck in a situation.

39:51

This is the kind of story I wanna see. Not let's punch all the Klingons.

39:54

Rob: I think, the raid Daredevil have a lot to answer for where they've

39:58

created this whole new technique of the one shot or the corridor fight scene

40:02

that has been brought into so many TV. And that's what they were trying to do in this, I think.

40:06

But it was shot by it looks like someone who's never done a choreographed

40:10

fight scene on film before. If they have I'd, I'm, I'd take that back, but it looked very amateur.

40:16

But yeah. So that was my, yeah.

40:18

I'm ending on a very sour note and a very sad note, but it's

40:22

Kevin: N no, but I dare say it might be the best episode of Star

40:25

Trek we've talked about today. Rob: Pretty much. Yeah.

40:28

Yeah, quite easily. It's a powerful episode.

40:31

Make sure you've got a, maybe watch a Little Green Men after it.

40:34

Kevin: All right. Well, I can't wait to see where Pike has gone and who this amazing

40:40

lawyer is, he's gonna bring back to save number one, is next week.

40:44

Rob: Look, Star Trek is back on TV and we get to talk about it again.

40:48

It's been far too long and I look forward to getting back into it next week.

40:52

Kevin: See you around.