0:00

Welcome to the show, fellow conspiracy

0:02

realist Matt. This classic episode

0:04

has me wondering should

0:07

we should we be doing exorcisms?

0:10

Should we get back into that.

0:11

Yeah, I mean it's been too long, first of

0:13

all. Second of all, it's so much

0:16

fun. Third

0:18

of all, I don't know. I

0:20

would love to have an exorcism performed

0:22

on me, just to like test

0:25

and see if there's any demonic stuff

0:27

going on in.

0:27

Here, just like

0:30

like a spiritual physical.

0:32

Yeah, yeah, like I don't even know it's happening or

0:34

anybody, and you just test it out, see

0:36

what happens. If you get anything, well

0:39

you win.

0:40

Hold this crossing cough. So

0:43

the idea of an

0:45

exorcism, this exists

0:47

throughout history, throughout

0:50

the world, some version of this in the West.

0:52

The Catholic concept of

0:54

an exorcism is probably the thing that's

0:56

most familiar to people like you

0:59

know, in the nineteen seventy three horror

1:01

film The Exorcists. We were surprised

1:03

a number of years ago to learn that exorcisms

1:07

are actually on the rise.

1:10

Yeah, they have a whole association

1:13

that's international. Let's learn about

1:15

it.

1:16

From UFOs to psychic powers

1:18

and government conspiracies. History

1:20

is riddled with unexplained events. You

1:22

can turn back now or learn

1:25

the stuff they don't want you to know.

1:40

Welcome back to the show. My name is

1:42

Matt. Usually that's Nol, but

1:44

he's not here today, and

1:46

we.

1:48

Promise that, as far as we know, our

1:50

compatriot is not possessed.

1:53

We are, of course joined with our super

1:56

producer, Paul Decant. They

1:59

call me Ben. You are you? And that

2:01

makes this stuff they don't

2:03

want you to know. The power of podcast

2:06

compels us. Yes, it does

2:08

to perform certain rituals at

2:11

certain times. And this

2:13

is one of our rituals

2:17

that you and I have been doing for a number

2:19

of years. Matt. We we research

2:21

something strange, we

2:23

may conduct an interview, we may travel

2:26

somewhere, and then we come together

2:29

in this place and.

2:31

With our Coca Cola holy water and pour

2:33

it into our mouths. So at

2:36

least I do I think you have. You've got straight up

2:38

coffee today, which is just as good, if

2:40

not better.

2:41

And our relics are

2:43

with us, our microphones, our

2:46

headphones.

2:46

Are our smelly pop filters.

2:49

That was a subject of discussion before

2:52

we dropped in.

2:53

Everybody uses them, and you know, sometimes

2:55

you have coffee breath. It's all good.

2:57

Sometimes you have Coca cola breath strategy.

3:00

By the way, as I'm pretty specific

3:03

with this, I try to stay away from

3:05

the mic, you know, I don't want to get

3:08

right right on it. It's just length voiceover.

3:10

Yeah. And additionally,

3:14

one could argue, if we

3:16

were to look at podcasting as a

3:18

ritual or a right that what you

3:20

and I are doing now is

3:24

incantation. Oh,

3:26

because we do spend you

3:28

know, you and I especially have spend

3:31

a lot of time behind

3:34

the scenes or off air, off camera

3:37

saying, you know what, how should

3:39

we approach an idea? Should we structure

3:41

it? Is there

3:43

a power in formula and ritual

3:46

and right? And

3:49

we think there is.

3:50

Yeah, at

3:52

least to an extent or

3:55

in a way, because you

3:57

expect it, you as

3:59

a person receiving a ritual in

4:02

this sort or an incantation

4:04

like this, I

4:07

don't know. It's it's almost as if it triggers

4:09

a thing that is already implanted in your brain, the

4:11

pathways that are already there because you kind

4:14

of know what it is. But then it's going

4:16

to open up new pathways that are connected

4:18

to that one.

4:19

Right, That's the question that you might want

4:21

to ask yourself, longtime listeners, friends

4:24

and neighbors, have we primed

4:26

you? Have we programmed you to

4:29

anticipate certain stimuli

4:32

and respond in certain ways?

4:34

Yes?

4:35

Yeah, the answer is yes. First

4:38

time listeners, welcome to the show. Hey, you

4:41

hope you enjoy it.

4:42

Before we jump into today's topic, we

4:44

want to start with a quick quote

4:47

that kind of sets up maybe

4:49

the framing of mind for

4:53

some of the people who think in the same way of these characters.

4:56

Quote today, the world

4:58

does not turn from God because it is idolatrous.

5:01

Rather, it pursues pure atheism

5:04

so as to put science on the altar.

5:07

And that's from Father Gabriel Amorth and

5:10

he is someone we will get to a little

5:12

later.

5:13

Matt, what

5:17

do you think of when you hear the word exorcism.

5:20

I see images from film

5:23

and television, mostly film movies,

5:26

the Exorciste in particular. I have very

5:28

vivid images of a

5:31

body rising off of a

5:33

bed of vomit, coming

5:35

from a mouth, of a discolored face,

5:39

that is possession in particular. And

5:41

then when I think of exorcism, I think of holy

5:43

water, and I think of reading

5:47

from a Bible, reading the

5:49

word of God. Other

5:52

symbology, crosses, artifacts

5:54

of that sort, yeah,

5:57

investments, Yes, the touching of hands.

6:01

That's what I see, a very Hollywood version

6:03

of exorcism.

6:05

Agreed, you know, and I believe

6:07

that that's something common.

6:10

You know, a lot of people,

6:13

at least in the West, when we hear the term exorcism,

6:16

we think of, as you said, Hollywood,

6:19

a good horror film.

6:20

Well, yeah, because most of us haven't experienced

6:22

a true exorcism, or what would

6:25

be considered a real exorcism.

6:27

M m, right, at least in that

6:29

specific Catholic

6:32

framework, right in the past.

6:35

On this very show, almost

6:38

four years ago to the day, Wow,

6:41

we covered the phenomenon of exorcism

6:43

in general, along with how it differs

6:46

across time and cultures. Will

6:49

give a brief background of

6:51

exorcism and possession here, and

6:54

for more in depth information, please

6:56

check out our earlier episode,

6:59

Exorcisms Introduction.

7:01

Not the most creative.

7:02

Title, eh, you know, that's exactly what it was.

7:04

Though it was it was I.

7:06

Think we did a pretty good job. I really liked

7:08

that episode.

7:08

I went back and listened to it and I

7:11

was surprised. Not that

7:13

I expected it to be terrible,

7:16

but twenty fourteen was such a long time

7:18

ago.

7:18

Now, we were just learning what the show was.

7:21

Right, We were like priest conducting

7:23

our first Okay, all right, yeah, we're gonna

7:26

let that analogy go. So here

7:28

are the facts, the

7:30

brief background broad stroke

7:32

stuff, Matt and I will give you. Here is

7:35

the following. The practice of exorcism

7:38

predates the existence of all

7:40

Abramaic religion, Judaism,

7:43

Islam, Christianity,

7:46

all of it. This stuff was old beings

7:49

by the time Jesus Christ

7:51

or Moses or any of

7:53

the other religious figures

7:56

right of course, Muhammad and so on, before

7:59

anybody body else came into the

8:03

fold, or the zeitgeist of spiritual

8:05

belief.

8:06

That the concept of some kind of spirit

8:08

entering a corporeal body somehow

8:11

and then taking it out.

8:13

Yeah, yeah, non consensually

8:15

entering and being non consensually pooled

8:18

by the time the story of

8:21

Jesus Christ casting spirits

8:23

into pigs came

8:25

about, or by the time you know, people heard

8:27

that story, whether they heard

8:30

it in an oral tradition, whether

8:32

they who knows,

8:35

witnessed it themselves, or whether they read

8:38

about it in centuries or millennia later,

8:41

the concept of exorcism would have already

8:43

been more than familiar to the

8:45

audience. In

8:48

ancient Samaria and Babylon,

8:50

exorcists already played a prominent

8:53

role somewhere between that of a priest

8:55

and a doctor. And it's pretty fascinating

8:58

because the rituals

9:00

from what we know, of course, a lot of this has lost

9:03

the time, or publicly available knowledge

9:05

has been lost the time. The rituals

9:08

would vary, but they still relied

9:10

on artifacts, techniques,

9:13

and as you said, Matt, the

9:15

main goal was to drive out

9:19

a spirit. They might not have used

9:21

the word demon, maybe more like spirit.

9:23

A spirit that, yeah, again non consensually

9:26

was there, probably of a bad

9:28

nature, a negative nature, right.

9:31

And this could be in

9:34

some cases, this could be a

9:37

human spirit, a ghost, right,

9:40

an angry ancestor. In other cases,

9:42

though in a way that's more

9:44

familiar with us now in the modern day,

9:48

it would be something that never was human,

9:50

yeah, a.

9:52

Monster from another plain kind

9:54

of exactly.

9:55

Yeah. And they would concoct

9:57

these magical

10:00

substances or potions, these relics

10:03

and artifacts composed of animals

10:05

or plants or different stones

10:08

that were thought to have various

10:10

powers. In the world of sympathetic magic,

10:13

we're talking about iron from meteors,

10:16

reeds, flower, animal hair.

10:20

Birds were really big in this

10:22

time, and birds still are symbolically

10:25

hugely important, right.

10:27

Oh. Yeah, They're thought to possess, or

10:29

they have been for a long time, thought to possess, some

10:32

kind of supernatural power, especially

10:34

white owls. White owls,

10:36

and you have to imagine that image would

10:39

be startling in a way. And

10:43

I guess you can just imagine viewing

10:46

one just perch outside a window or something,

10:48

or perched outside of a home, just

10:50

sitting there in a tree and gazing.

10:53

Now, we have both

10:56

lived outside of urban

10:58

areas in the past, right, and I

11:02

believe I believe Paul has

11:05

as well. I

11:07

have to admit, even

11:10

even if someone without Nole's crippling

11:12

fear of all things avy and

11:16

when I unexpectedly

11:18

see a large predatory bird,

11:21

yeah, I mean that's a

11:23

double take moment. Yeah,

11:25

I'm going to say I'm startled, not

11:27

frightened, because usually that for a long

11:29

time now, I've been a bit too large for

11:32

the average bird to attack. But

11:35

have you ever been in a situation where

11:37

you hear a slight rustle

11:40

and you turn to the left and there's a hawk

11:42

or a falcon or something.

11:43

Yeah, I have to really fast stories. H yeah, yeah,

11:46

Okay. So the other day I was driving to work

11:48

in the morning. It was very foggy outside.

11:50

It was the day I posted on our Instagram

11:54

a couple of pictures of Atlanta

11:56

in this heavy, misty fog

11:58

conspiracy stuff show.

12:00

Feel free to follow it.

12:01

Yes, Well, as I got to the stop

12:03

sign in my neighborhood, I looked to my right and

12:05

I see I'm not really sure what it is

12:07

at first, and then I realize, oh,

12:09

it is a large brown hawk, very

12:12

large, about the size of a cat, a

12:14

large cat, and it has

12:17

its wings wrapped around something.

12:19

It's sitting or standing on the ground,

12:22

and something is like kind of twitching

12:24

and moving underneath its wings, and you can see it kind

12:26

of readjusting itself, and then

12:29

it opens its wings a little bit. It

12:31

sends its beak down really fast around

12:33

the neck of this squirrel that it's

12:35

got trapped, and then

12:38

it's holding it down still, and I swear it looks

12:40

up and it looks right at my car, because I

12:42

just stop and I just stare at it for a

12:44

little while. It stares at me, and

12:47

then I go, all right, I'm

12:49

moving on and I'm driving carefully just

12:51

in case this is an omen

12:54

of some sort. The other one is in

12:56

my backyard there, it's a fenced

12:58

in area, there is a fam of

13:00

large owls. And I didn't realize

13:02

this, oh wow, until one night I took my

13:05

small dock's in terrier mix out in the

13:07

back to go to the bathroom, Buddy, Buddy,

13:09

and I heard a sound

13:12

that I was unfamiliar with. I did not know

13:15

what type of bird it was. I didn't know anything.

13:18

I just knew it was a large bird and it was just

13:20

above me in this large oak tree.

13:22

Was it a vocalization?

13:24

It was a vocalization that I cannot reproduce.

13:27

And oh it sounded like a curse word.

13:29

Huh yes, yeah.

13:31

But it was so eerie, and

13:33

I didn't know until when I got this powerful

13:35

flashlight out of my house shined it up, and it

13:38

was just this huge owl perched

13:41

on this tree. And it was again like just

13:43

staring down at the source of light at

13:45

me. And the feeling, even

13:48

now in then twenty seventeen,

13:51

was of dread of some sort, you.

13:53

Know, And don't be fooled by the vocalization

13:56

either, because owls are some of the quietest

13:59

predators birds.

14:03

I can completely

14:05

understand where you're coming from. And that's

14:07

so cool that you live there, because

14:10

you know your chances of having any

14:12

sort of rudent problem have just

14:14

bottomed out.

14:15

Yes, very very true.

14:18

Anyway, that's enough on owls.

14:20

Oh, yes, yes, yes, And then

14:22

you know things like ravens would

14:25

be thought to be messengers, yes,

14:27

owls also, But

14:30

owls were more associated

14:32

in these ancient times in Samaria, at least

14:35

with insidious powers, the

14:37

powers of darkness and death

14:39

and decay and evil. Right, whereas

14:42

ravens, ravens were like bad

14:45

news, but owls,

14:47

owls were terrible news. Then

14:51

of course you could probably see this coming, folks.

14:53

The idea of water water symbolized

14:56

the presence of Ea, the god

14:58

of water, so it was

15:00

often sprinkled on the

15:03

victim of a possession during incantations

15:06

to symbolize the cleansing of the victim.

15:08

Right, the influence of the god of water taking

15:11

away the contamination

15:14

of this evil.

15:14

Spirit, symbol we see with modern

15:17

day baptisms.

15:18

Right exactly. Hole in one

15:20

spittle, by the way, was especially important.

15:23

It was thought to be a potent toxin

15:26

when used against demons. Saliva

15:30

wow, So that's why several ancient

15:32

texts refer to these sorcerer priests

15:35

as kasapum. However

15:37

it's pronounced which was Arabic four to

15:39

poison, and the Smerian equivalent

15:42

was mints saliva or spittle

15:44

wow, the idea being the poisoned demons. And

15:46

as you pointed out, many of the vestiges

15:48

of these older practices can be seen in exorcism

15:51

rituals and rites around the world today.

15:54

Incantations, the

15:56

use of sanctified

15:58

or holy water, the use of

16:01

animals and relics. In

16:03

this episode for the

16:06

Strange phenomenon will examine today,

16:09

we're going to focus on Catholic perspectives

16:12

concerning exorcism.

16:14

So what if

16:16

we are asking the Catholic Church, if

16:18

we're hanging out with Pope Francis

16:20

and we ask him, what's

16:23

exorcism, what does he say?

16:25

He's going to say, the act of driving

16:27

out or warding off demons or evil

16:30

spirits from persons, places or

16:32

things which are believed to be possessed

16:34

or infested by them, or are

16:36

liable to become victims or instruments

16:39

of their malice. And that's according to the Catholic

16:42

Encyclopedia right.

16:44

That does sound like there would be a bit of a complex

16:46

sentence structure to generate

16:48

off the dome, doesn't it. While

16:50

the treatment of this perceived

16:53

conditioned spiritual possession may vary

16:55

from one culture to the next,

16:59

the idea is extraordinarily

17:01

common, as we discussed in our previous episode,

17:04

throughout history, and the gist

17:06

of it is pretty much the same across

17:08

time, culture, and space, and

17:11

evil. Typically, non corporeal

17:13

entity or non physical entity invades

17:15

a physical vessel. In horror

17:18

films or horror stories, this is often

17:20

a person, often a kid

17:22

who turns really creepy, or an

17:25

elderly person, because those

17:27

two ends of the mortality

17:30

cycle of humanity are the things

17:32

that psychologically tend to creep people

17:34

out the most.

17:35

Yeah, well, and in a way

17:37

are the weakest parts of that bell

17:39

curve.

17:39

That's a great point. That

17:42

is a really great point. Also,

17:44

however, places or objects

17:47

may be considered infected. There's

17:50

an excellent article on

17:52

our parent website, how Stuff

17:54

Works. It's called how Exorcisms

17:57

Work, and they

17:59

break down some of the approaches the

18:01

Catholic Church takes to exorcisms.

18:03

This article, by the way, is

18:07

solely based on Catholicism,

18:10

and we can't stress it enough. Exorcism,

18:14

possession. It is not a

18:16

Catholic thing alone. It's

18:18

just something like if you hear about

18:21

it here in the US, you are most likely

18:23

going to hear about it through this

18:25

lens. Anyhow,

18:27

According to this, the Catholic

18:30

Church recognizes not one,

18:32

but several types of exorcism, and

18:34

some of them may surprise you.

18:36

Yeah. The first one is baptismal exorcism,

18:38

and this is when you bring an infant like

18:40

a baby prior to being

18:43

officially baptized into the church.

18:46

You bring it into the church to cleanse it of the

18:48

evil resulting from its original

18:50

sin, which is

18:53

dark and away. But it's also the

18:56

least worrisome of the types

18:59

of exorcism.

19:01

The second one is simple exorcism, and this

19:03

is more of a blessing really than

19:06

pulling things out of it so much,

19:08

I guess in a way. But you're blessing

19:10

a place or a thing, so a physical

19:12

object, to rid it of some kind

19:14

of evil infestation.

19:17

Right right, And you see similar

19:19

this sort of thing well qualifying as exorcism

19:22

is something that you would see

19:25

in other cultures. Perhaps the idea

19:28

that you may have heard from some of your

19:30

college roommates in the past of burning sage

19:33

to purify a place

19:35

because something bad happened there. Then,

19:39

of course there's real exorcism, the

19:42

real deal, the one we all hear about

19:45

performing the capital R

19:47

right of capital e exorcism

19:49

to rid a living human being

19:52

a possession by a diabolical entity.

19:55

And that brings us to another question. How do

19:57

you know whether someone's being possessed?

19:59

How can you tell the difference between someone who's just

20:01

been a real ahole versus someone

20:03

who's become an unwilling vessel for

20:06

infernal forces of the you know, the

20:08

left hand of darkness. Right. According

20:10

to the Church, there are

20:13

several telltale signs

20:15

of demonic possession that

20:18

anyone can sense. In

20:20

general, you don't have to be a member of the clergy

20:23

to notice these things. Speaking

20:27

or understanding languages which the person

20:29

has never learned. It's different from

20:31

speaking in tongues gloss a alia,

20:34

because that is believed

20:36

to be indicative

20:39

of religious ecstasy, whereas

20:43

speaking in fluent

20:46

Aramaic or something

20:48

is considered to be a sign

20:51

that there's a different entity

20:53

at the wheel of your mind.

20:54

Yeah, the traditional speaking in tongues is

20:57

it's just gibberish. It

20:59

does, it's not actual formations

21:02

of words or sentences. Generally.

21:05

Then there's knowing or somehow revealing

21:08

things that the person has no way

21:10

of knowing. It. Just if it was regular

21:12

times and this person just was existing in their life,

21:15

there's no way they could have known this clairvoyance.

21:17

Yes, yeah, in physical

21:20

strength beyond the person's natural physical

21:22

makeup, which is an interesting thing

21:25

because we know in times

21:27

of great stress that

21:30

can actually happen. Hysterical strength

21:32

is a thing to some degree. And

21:35

then a violent aversion to God, the

21:37

Virgin Mary, the Cross, and other

21:40

images of the Catholic.

21:41

Faith yep, which

21:44

again we have seen over and over.

21:46

So where does that leave us today. We'll

21:48

tell you after a word from our sponsor.

21:57

And we're back. So today,

22:00

exorcism remains the subject of this

22:02

intense interest across the

22:04

world for peoples across the world, both

22:07

for believers that think exorcism

22:09

is real and you're actually bringing

22:12

evil spirits out of a person and skeptics who

22:14

think it's just a strange ritual

22:17

that's just stuck around.

22:19

An historical artifact or something. Yeah.

22:21

Yeah, that's a really good point. Matt

22:23

because one thing that you

22:25

notice is that even

22:28

the people who

22:32

you know, the people I

22:34

refer to them as pseudo skeptics,

22:36

who are so into their idea of

22:38

being a skeptic that they have

22:42

severely crippled their ability to apply

22:45

critical thinking, even

22:47

those people have a

22:51

huge interest in the concept.

22:54

Right. It's entertaining

22:56

in horror and in fiction, right,

22:59

And it's also fascinating

23:03

just from an anthropological

23:06

perspective. Right.

23:07

Oh yeah, with the quote we had at

23:09

the top of the show, it seems in this

23:11

world of science in which we exist

23:13

right now, that exorcisms should

23:15

have just been left by the wayside, and

23:17

they most certainly haven't.

23:20

Exactly. Yeah. Modern science often proposes

23:22

that historical cases of exorcism

23:25

can be attributed to a number of

23:27

different mundane

23:31

causes, including things

23:33

like mental health issues

23:35

that would not have

23:37

been recognized

23:40

in the same framework through which we

23:42

recognize them today, stuff like

23:45

schizophrenia, right, possibly

23:47

dementia instance, or

23:50

even arguably in the

23:52

case of the elderly Alzheimer's, anything

23:56

that seems to dramatically

23:58

change someone behavior, their

24:01

emotional state, or distress them. Other

24:04

undiagnosed, unrecognized diseases,

24:07

genetic conditions, and then

24:10

the more complex, the more

24:12

complex phenomenon of social pressures

24:15

or behavior running in contravention

24:18

to social moras, norms, or

24:20

values of the time.

24:23

Are you you know one thing that would happen

24:25

in patriarchal societies? Right? Are you a

24:28

woman who doesn't want to be

24:30

in this arranged marriage? Yeah?

24:33

You must be possessed by the devil.

24:36

How else would you have a problem with this?

24:38

It's not you, it's this demon

24:41

that said you shouldn't marry this fifty

24:44

year old man in your twelve It must be it

24:47

must be called the priest. So how

24:49

far do we take this idea today? Though?

24:52

Are there literally modern

24:54

exorcisms in the Catholic Church

24:57

spoiler alert yes, of course, But if

25:00

so, how seriously does

25:02

the church take them? Here's where

25:05

it gets crazy again.

25:07

Like we said, while exorcism might seem like

25:09

this artifact of some you

25:12

know, the bloody religious history that

25:15

humanity has experienced, it's still

25:17

taken very seriously

25:19

by the Catholic Church, more seriously

25:21

in fact, in recent decades than it had

25:24

been prior to that. There

25:26

is this thing that this episode

25:29

is really all about, called the International

25:31

Association of Exorcists.

25:35

And here let's let's talk about it. This

25:37

is a Roman Catholic organization, and

25:39

it sounds ancient. It sounds like something

25:41

that would have been created in the fifteen

25:44

hundreds, the sixteen hundreds or something. But

25:46

no, it wasn't founded until the

25:48

year nineteen ninety and

25:51

there were six priests that got together, including

25:54

Father Gabriel Amorth with the quote

25:56

at the top of the show, and Father Jeremy

25:58

Davies right.

26:01

Father Gabriel m Orth is someone

26:03

that we touched upon in

26:06

a couple of previous episodes. He

26:09

was born in nineteen twenty five

26:12

exorcists for the Diocese of

26:14

Rome. He claimed

26:16

to have performed I believe

26:20

over one hundred and sixty

26:22

thousands exorcisms.

26:25

Whoa yeah.

26:26

During his now he was a priest for

26:31

decades and decades. He

26:35

was often called by

26:37

reputable news sources the Vatican's

26:39

chief exorcists, which

26:42

is more I

26:44

think we of me have said that as well. It

26:47

turns out that's more the

26:51

translation, because he is exorcist

26:53

for the Diocese of Rome, but he's not. He

26:57

wasn't. There's not some sort of joint

27:00

chiefs of staff for exorcism

27:02

in Rome, and he's not the guy with

27:04

the most stars or the

27:07

biggest epaulets or whatever. He

27:11

was a priest for years and

27:13

years before he became an official

27:15

exorcist, and that's something we see with a

27:17

lot of Catholic priest

27:21

It's not something that people enter

27:25

into on their first day of seminary.

27:27

He was a priest in nineteen fifty four

27:30

and he did not become an exorcist until

27:32

nineteen eighty six, under

27:34

the tutelage of Candido Amantini.

27:38

He loved the

27:41

film The Exorcist. I thought that was

27:43

fascinating. He loved it

27:45

because he thought it was substantially correct,

27:48

does based on true events, and

27:51

he thought the special effects were exaggerated.

27:53

But he picture him shrugging and going,

27:56

you know, it's a movie.

27:58

So he.

28:02

In defense of this film, he said that he

28:05

was in an interview with a London Sunday Telegraph

28:07

and he stressed that people need to know what

28:09

we do we in this sense

28:11

being exorcist.

28:14

The different the

28:17

different claims of

28:19

the number of exorcisms that Amor

28:21

conducted. The

28:24

reason for that difference is that there's no

28:27

central database for the amount

28:29

of exorcisms, either performed per

28:32

year performed in total,

28:36

but We could make some guesses

28:38

on some of this stuff later, but

28:41

that's why you hear his

28:44

numbers differing. In October

28:46

two thousand, it was reported he had performed

28:48

over fifty thousand exorcisms.

28:51

In twenty ten, he said the number

28:53

was seventy thousand, but by May

28:55

of twenty thirteen he said he had

28:57

performed one hundred and sixty thousand

29:00

and over the course of his career. An

29:03

important note here, as

29:05

we said, there are different types of exorcism. Yeah,

29:08

so that could count everything from praying

29:11

for a bad place to be cleansed

29:13

of some sort of influence to the

29:16

stuff you would see in the film The

29:18

Exorcist.

29:19

Yeah. So this guy who

29:21

has you know, had already by the year

29:24

nineteen ninety had a lot of experience

29:26

with exorcism. He and

29:29

his buddies, his compatriots,

29:32

along with Jeremy Davies, they formed this

29:35

organization and there

29:37

are only six people at this time, but then

29:39

by the year two thousand there are over two hundred

29:41

members of this association and

29:44

the purpose of it in totality

29:47

was to increase the number of

29:49

official exorcists across

29:51

the world, which is, you

29:53

know, I guess something you would want to do

29:55

if this is a problem that you see, and

29:59

Father Amwerth hoped that the existence

30:01

of this organization would shed light on what he saw

30:03

as this growing and often ignored

30:05

problem, which was demonic possession,

30:07

real demonic possession, and

30:10

also a lack of priests with the knowledge

30:12

and authority to perform the rites of

30:14

exorcism.

30:15

Important point here with that phenomenal

30:18

growth from nineteen ninety to

30:20

two thousand, so from

30:22

over the course of ten years it went from six to

30:24

two hundred members. It still

30:27

was not formally acknowledged

30:30

or approved of by the actual Roman

30:32

Catholic Church until twenty

30:34

fourteen, but a lot of stuff was happening

30:37

in the interim because of those two hundred

30:39

members in two thousand, several

30:41

went to a national

30:44

meeting of exorcists organized

30:46

in two thousand and four by the

30:48

Archbishop of Mexico City, Cardinal

30:51

Norberto Rivera Carrera. The

30:54

purpose of this meeting was to fight back

30:56

against what they saw is the spread of Satanism,

30:58

to discuss ways in which to use the Word

31:00

of God to denounce everything

31:03

that is against God, which isn't

31:05

just it's everything. It's

31:09

similar to the approach that

31:13

the NSSAY or other

31:16

post nine to eleven intelligence agencies

31:18

take toward rooting out terrorism.

31:21

Something against national security.

31:23

National security probably a better way to put it. So

31:26

it's anything loosely associated.

31:28

It's sort of mentality where

31:32

everybody's playing six degrees of Kevin

31:34

Bacon, but now it's six degrees of terrorism,

31:36

six degrees of Satan. So it's not whether,

31:39

it's not whether something is openly

31:42

associated with what they see

31:44

as the

31:47

powers of darkness, with

31:49

their by its

31:51

practitioners, right, like

31:54

most people using Ouigia board are

31:56

probably just playing a game from Parker Brothers.

31:58

Right. Maybe maybe, But

32:01

in this mind they're saying, whether,

32:03

regardless of whether the practitioners or

32:05

the audience feels this is an infernal

32:08

thing, we are going to combat it.

32:10

We are going to root out every piece

32:12

of possible influence that

32:14

might be coming through these outlets. So what kind

32:16

of stuff is this?

32:17

Everything from witchcraft to magic,

32:21

to occultism, fortune telling, the

32:23

New Age movements of using

32:26

crystals for healing, even masonry.

32:29

Oh and important note that's freemasonry,

32:31

not just brick laying.

32:32

Are you sure, because I don't know churches

32:35

are built of stone. Oh yeah, I guess so The

32:39

meeting itself was attended by over five

32:41

hundred people. Most of these people are

32:43

priests. They were from all across

32:45

Mexico. All of

32:47

them were somehow involved with

32:50

exorcism, whether you know they

32:52

were new to the game or seasoned

32:54

veterans. Besides

32:57

Cardinal Carrera, other notable guests

32:59

included, as we kind of mentioned before, Father

33:02

Mario Angel or Angel Flores

33:05

Ramos. He was the director of theology

33:08

at the Department of the Pontifical University

33:10

of Mexico. Father gian Carlo

33:13

Gramolazzo the president of the

33:15

International Association of Exorcists

33:17

at the time. So he is the president

33:19

of the association that we

33:22

discussed earlier. You also had Father

33:25

Gabriel Amor, the founder of that association

33:27

or one of the founders of that association.

33:30

He's the driving force. Yeah, President

33:32

Emeritis.

33:33

Yeah sure.

33:34

So there's a big question that

33:37

comes up here, and oh

33:40

all right, before we get to it, just to paint

33:43

some of father Amorth's character,

33:46

Okay, this is an unrelated

33:48

story we found in our research

33:51

that I that I think is

33:53

worthwhile. Okay, So Father

33:57

Gabriel Amorth was

34:00

not just a not

34:03

just an exorcist, right, Listen,

34:06

to me, just an exorcist. Those

34:09

guys, well, you know what, they will really

34:11

mess up your weekend. Just on a side note,

34:13

so the was

34:16

not merely an

34:18

exorcist or did not relegate

34:22

his integrity or sense of purpose solely

34:24

to these ideas. He also

34:29

he also fought against what

34:31

he saw as corruption within

34:33

the Vatican itself. He

34:37

famously in two thousand

34:39

and twelve attempted

34:42

to blow the whistle on

34:44

one of the Vatican's most enduring

34:46

mysteries, which was the

34:49

disappearance of a

34:52

child named Emmanuela

34:54

or Landi. In nineteen

34:56

eighty three. She disappeared. She

34:59

was fifty ten years old, child of a Vatican employee,

35:03

and it

35:06

became a mystery that was never

35:10

going to be solved,

35:13

and people had made various claims about

35:15

it. In two thousand and five, an

35:17

anonymous caller to an Italian

35:20

crime show on TV said

35:22

that you could

35:24

find evidence of what happened to her in the

35:26

tomb of a mobster who was gunned

35:28

down by rival gangsters in the nineties.

35:32

But in twenty and twelve,

35:34

Father Amorth said

35:37

that the girl

35:39

was abducted by

35:42

people within the Vatican and

35:45

part of the establishment who

35:49

had a sexual motive to the crime

35:52

that she was forced to take

35:54

part in child abuse

35:56

parties WHOA And he has

35:58

the quote here that network involved

36:00

diplomatic personnel from a foreign embassy

36:03

to the Holy See. I believe emmanuela

36:05

Holy See being the Vatican. I believe Manuela

36:08

ended up a victim of this circle. He

36:12

told this to an Italian newspaper

36:15

called La Stampa, and

36:20

he dismissed the

36:23

various plots

36:25

going around that it was something some

36:28

sort of wetwork, black

36:30

bag stuff between intelligence agencies,

36:33

or that it was attached to

36:35

the mafia. So

36:38

this was a guy who took his stand

36:40

for things that he felt

36:43

strongly about and was not afraid

36:46

to make enemies, which

36:48

seems to me that he may have been a

36:51

divisive figure in a place

36:54

like the Vatican, which definitely practices

36:59

its own sort of America or code of

37:01

silence when it comes to these crimes. I

37:04

wanted to add that I know it's a bit of a derailment,

37:07

but it is important because

37:09

I do think it paints his character as

37:11

a man unafraid to speak truth to power,

37:13

which is an ulto rare trait in

37:16

the modern world, and probably historically

37:18

has been a very rare trait. But

37:22

that aside, those are bona

37:24

fides to me in regard

37:28

to his character, even though obviously not

37:30

gonna. I don't agree with the person. I've never

37:33

met the person, so I don't agree with everything

37:35

they stand for what they say. But I

37:37

am impressed when someone does

37:40

their best to speak truth to power and then

37:42

leads us to ask a question. Why

37:45

did this man organize

37:47

this international association? Why did

37:49

he travel to Mexico City.

37:51

Why did he begin to recruit

37:54

a cadre that later became an army

37:57

of exorcists?

38:00

The big deal, and we'll explore

38:02

it right after a quick word from our sponsors.

38:11

We've returned, and thankfully we have

38:13

an answer to this question. We don't always

38:15

have an answer to questions, but in

38:18

this case we do. The formation

38:20

of these organizations marked a strange

38:22

trend in the world of possession reports

38:25

and exorcism request As

38:28

we said, there's still no publicly available central

38:30

database tracking the number of exorcisms

38:32

performed, but we're able to make

38:34

some guesses about general trends based on

38:36

reports from these associated organizations.

38:40

Influential priests like amorp

38:42

himself or Grama

38:45

Lazo, and the

38:48

reports of exorcists serving in

38:50

specific archdioceses.

38:53

For several decades in the late nineteenth

38:55

and early twentieth centuries, reports

38:57

of possession and you know, us

39:00

for exorcisms had been on the decline. They'd

39:02

been reducing in number because

39:05

for years after the Roman Catholic Church's

39:07

Second Vatican Council, or what they called

39:09

Vatican Two, that.

39:11

Was like God,

39:13

everybody at our job uses that joke.

39:16

Yeah, well, well, it resulted in new

39:18

church practices, like the official

39:20

Church practices, that were deemed

39:22

compatible with the contemporary world.

39:25

And in this case, with this

39:27

Vatican Two, it was taboo for priests

39:29

to speak of Satan as if

39:31

a physical or a

39:34

Satan actually existed.

39:35

Right, So not Satan as a real

39:38

thing, Satan as a metaphor for

39:40

the struggle to grow

39:42

closer to God. That was nineteen

39:45

sixty.

39:46

Two, Yeah, roughly around there, sixty

39:48

two sixty five. However,

39:51

in the more recent decades, as we're getting

39:54

closer to today, exorcism

39:56

requests didn't just start

39:58

to grow. They didn't just inch a little

40:00

bit on the scale. They spiked

40:03

way up, especially here in the United

40:05

States as well as in the United Kingdom, and

40:07

cultural scholars will often

40:09

argue that this rise is coming

40:12

out of the you know, possibly what you could

40:14

see as the spike would be the premiere of The

40:16

Exorcist, which became a huge.

40:18

Blockbuster hit nineteen seventy three.

40:21

Along with subsequent Satanic panic

40:23

that occurred here in the United States and elsewhere

40:26

in the late nineteen eighties and nineties,

40:29

where just interest in

40:32

the scary parts

40:34

of possession, interest in

40:37

belief that maybe there's Satanism occurring

40:39

in the town where you live, where groups

40:41

of people are getting around to worship Satan

40:44

and hold rituals, and

40:46

to the true believers, however, this

40:48

is a signal of something much

40:51

larger at play.

40:52

And this rise was such that as

40:55

of twenty sixteen, despite

40:57

the formation of the Internationalist

41:00

Nsociation of Exorcists, the Catholic

41:02

Church was having serious problems

41:04

fielding all requests for exorcisms,

41:06

as many of the older exorcists

41:09

were aging out or dying, and many

41:11

of the newer, less experienced

41:13

priests were frightened of

41:15

enacting the rights. And

41:18

again, this is you know, serious

41:20

stuff in this world. These

41:24

individuals will be priests

41:26

for decades before they

41:28

tackle their first you know, real

41:31

exorcism. Quote unquote to use the

41:34

description in How Exorcism

41:36

Works, yet again a fantastic article

41:39

by House of Works. I did not write

41:41

it, so I feel fine bragging

41:43

about it. It was written by Julia

41:45

Layton, who always does wonderful

41:48

work for us. Two

41:50

of the most prominent exorcists in the

41:52

United States, a fellow named Father Gary

41:54

Thomas and a fellow n in Father Vincent

41:57

Lampert. Note that it's not the church

42:00

demanding more exorcisms, which

42:02

it can do right. It was on church

42:04

orders that Mother Teresa was actually

42:06

exercised before her death, but

42:09

rather the people, the lay

42:11

folk, and Father

42:14

Lambert's experience. Only one out

42:16

of every five thousand

42:19

or so request is someone

42:22

afflicted by a full demonic possession.

42:25

He does say, however, that he is conducted

42:28

countless exorcisms related to demonic

42:30

obsession, demonic vexation,

42:33

and demonic infestation.

42:35

Yeah, you'll also hear demonic

42:37

oppression amongst

42:39

those terms, where

42:41

it's slightly different, little

42:44

different things going on. But it's not a human

42:46

being that has a demon inside

42:48

of them that needs to get.

42:49

Out, okay, right, So it's some kind

42:51

of external.

42:53

A lot of times externally.

42:54

So maybe there might be a physical

42:56

malady.

42:57

Or being influenced in some way.

42:59

Sure, and Father

43:01

Lamport also says that half the calls

43:04

he receives are from non Catholics.

43:07

Hmm.

43:08

And this, this is interesting.

43:10

This is a point that we need to make in

43:14

defense of the Catholic Church's

43:16

process here a

43:19

defense of the Church overall, of course, But

43:23

there's a pretty rigorous

43:26

system built for

43:28

the analysis

43:32

of an initial possession

43:35

report. Because the Catholic

43:37

Church and the exorcists

43:40

in the church are trained to come at

43:42

this from a very skeptical place. The

43:46

first thing they will do is consult

43:50

with everyone else to find any

43:52

other cause.

43:53

With people of science we're talking about,

43:57

Yeah, people's psychologists

43:59

come out and make sure there's nothing else

44:01

going on. I see an actual physician,

44:03

make sure there's no other malady. I

44:06

have to say that that part

44:08

of this whole process does make

44:10

me, I don't know, think

44:13

there might be a little more sand to it, because the

44:15

Church itself as an organization is saying,

44:17

well, we're going to weed out the stuff that isn't actually

44:19

possession.

44:20

Well, and also to be objective

44:23

about it. The Catholic Church

44:25

is such a massive organization

44:28

that if there were not some sort of

44:30

filtration system. It

44:33

would just be nundated these things,

44:35

and it already it already is.

44:38

We think

44:41

about the donations donation

44:45

or donations mandatory.

44:47

No, what I'm saying if you charged, if

44:49

you had

44:52

mandatory donations for the performing

44:55

the rights of exorcism and you have that many

44:58

requests coming.

44:59

In, that

45:03

is diabolical. That it

45:05

is a terrible, terrible thing. Oh

45:07

boy, you know what, Father Gabriel

45:10

Amor would not approve. He

45:14

has passed from this mortal plane.

45:17

The organization, the

45:20

Association of Exorcists rather still

45:22

exist and the current

45:24

president would probably also disagree.

45:27

Yeah, we have some quotes from him,

45:30

father of Francesco Bamonte.

45:32

He says, quote, when listening

45:35

to a prayer to the Virgin, the demon

45:37

shows all of his hatred and fear

45:39

toward her. He is forced to confirm

45:42

that Mary is the mother of God and

45:44

that she intercedes for humanity. Satan

45:47

is not the God of evil against the God

45:49

of good. Rather, he is a being who

45:51

God created as good and who,

45:54

with some angels also created

45:56

good by God, became evil

45:58

because they refused God and his kingdom

46:00

with their free and final choice.

46:03

Satan and the spirits at his service. Therefore,

46:05

are not omnipotent beings. They

46:07

cannot perform miracles, they are

46:10

not omnipresent, They cannot

46:12

know our thoughts or the future. And

46:15

just to know that that is a man speaking in

46:17

twenty sixteen. The

46:21

current president of the International Association

46:23

of Exorcists truly

46:25

believes, at least himself

46:27

and in the fairly large organization

46:30

that he represents and heads, believes

46:32

that that is true. That is

46:35

a problem that humanity must be

46:37

must continue to deal with.

46:40

And they very much believe. Both

46:43

monte and when he was alive,

46:46

very much believe that the that

46:51

Satan is a real thing. Right

46:53

that a more Also, in

46:55

regard to the sexual scandals

46:57

and corruption rocking the Vatican,

46:59

he believed there was evidence of corruption

47:03

by the Antichrist, so

47:06

the

47:08

foretold and much feared force

47:12

of Satan embodied on the planet.

47:15

Right, he thought I

47:17

was real and there both

47:20

of these, Both

47:23

of these individuals and many of

47:25

the people serving in the

47:27

International Association of Exorcists

47:30

believe that this

47:34

rise in possession arise in

47:36

reports of it in an increasingly

47:38

secular world, come

47:41

about in reaction

47:44

to and relation with the

47:47

division between spirituality and

47:49

science. Right as

47:52

we said in this quote, So are

47:56

people more

47:59

likely to be pass to

48:01

say that would would

48:03

require us to say

48:05

that possession itself is

48:08

real or something like it? Or

48:10

are people just searching

48:12

for some sort of spiritual explanation

48:14

that they find lacking an increasingly

48:18

unspiritual world at

48:20

the time. Uncertain times and uncertain

48:22

times, no kidding man. At

48:25

the time of this recording, exorcisms

48:29

continue to be on the rise. For

48:31

the more skeptical in the crowd, or those

48:33

who wouldn't subscribe to the idea

48:36

of Catholicism or

48:39

the Catholic perspective on exorcism, this

48:41

indicates hysteria or failure

48:44

to recognize the difference between

48:46

a good popcorn worthy horror

48:48

flick and the facts. For

48:51

the true believers, however, the late Father

48:53

of Morth among them, this is indicative

48:56

of something else, something larger, something

48:58

very dangerous and all

49:01

too frighteningly real. It

49:04

is important to say that he is not alone

49:06

or was not alone, nor were his

49:09

colleagues. Other organizations

49:11

have formed to combat the rising

49:13

tide of alleged possession and the

49:16

rising request for exorcisms. There's

49:18

the Pope Leo, the

49:20

Twelfth Institute based in Milwaukee,

49:23

which was founded in twenty twelve

49:25

to support the quote spiritual formation

49:27

of priests, bring the light of Christ to

49:29

dispel evil. Wow.

49:32

Yeah, And this thing it started

49:34

as this just a series of meetings, informal

49:37

meetings at the request of bishops

49:39

in the United States. It wanted they

49:41

wanted training. Really, they needed more people

49:44

who could perform exorcisms, so they wanted

49:46

education and training, and it was just

49:49

It's also a response to Pope Saint

49:51

John Paul the Second's recommendation

49:53

that every single diocey should

49:56

have an appointed exorcist, and a

49:58

spokesperson with the United States Bishop's

50:00

Conference said, although ideally

50:02

every diocese should have its own exorcists,

50:05

there are no statistics kept by the

50:08

Church to the actual the

50:10

factual numbers of how many exorcists

50:12

there actually are.

50:14

There are also classes

50:17

and courses offered by the Church on

50:19

exorcism, and the Catholic Church has actively

50:22

been training experienced priests in the nuts

50:24

and bolts of exorcism, how to

50:26

evaluate a case from day one,

50:28

how to request permission, and ultimately,

50:32

if need be, how to act,

50:34

how to enact the right Here

50:37

and on a

50:39

side note, for this, we should

50:41

also acknowledge that while

50:43

we have focused on the

50:47

Catholic Church's efforts to combat

50:49

this rise in exorcism request,

50:54

they are not alone in the game. Other

50:57

Christian denominations evangelical

51:00

as well, have also

51:04

begun conduct combating

51:06

what they see as a rise in

51:08

possessions in spiritual afflictions

51:11

from demonic forces. This

51:14

is a rising

51:16

tide across multiple

51:18

things. I guess what we're emphasizing

51:20

here is this is not a matter

51:22

of three elderly or

51:25

six elderly priests high

51:27

up in the Vatican social

51:29

hierarchy who were able

51:31

to push through something

51:34

that they were interested in, like that high

51:36

level executive at Sony who is able

51:38

to push through psychic

51:41

experiments. Right,

51:44

And this doesn't seem to end after

51:48

some of these folks have passed away. And we

51:50

want to ask you, we want to end more

51:52

on a question. Here, is possession

51:55

or something like it

51:58

real? And do you think that these

52:00

spiritual interpretations of it are

52:03

accurate or do you think they are a

52:05

cultural framework on something

52:07

else? Right?

52:09

And if so, what yah And what's the closest

52:11

you have come to experiencing

52:14

a possession or exorcism? Have

52:17

you been looking peered through

52:19

a door and seen one. Have you been

52:21

a part of one? We would

52:23

love to hear your stories.

52:26

And then, perhaps more

52:30

importantly, I won't speak for you, Matt, but from

52:32

I am more importantly, why

52:35

is it on the rise? Because that's the

52:37

spookiest thing. Whether

52:40

or not you believe in

52:42

this, whether or not you are Catholic, whether or not

52:44

you are spiritual in

52:46

an any remote six degrees

52:48

of Kevin Bacon's sense of the term,

52:51

it is inarguable that

52:53

these reports and requests

52:57

are rising speak,

53:00

you know, fantastic segues. It's time

53:02

for our corner.

53:06

Our first tweet comes from what up Saucy.

53:10

Saucy says, Wow, I'm still

53:12

my pants from that gloomy Sunday episode.

53:15

Well done, gentlemen, hashtag Thursday.

53:19

Well thank you, thank you so

53:21

much. We all, we all really, uh we

53:25

already all really put some blood, sweat

53:27

and tears and some late nights into that one,

53:29

and we're so glad that

53:32

someone enjoyed it.

53:33

Yeah, and you know, people have been asking us

53:35

for an unbleeped version, an uncensored

53:38

version, but I don't think you're gonna

53:40

get one unless you search for it, and you can

53:42

find it online somewhere through

53:45

the fringe festival, which you might be able to. I,

53:47

you know, I would love to.

53:49

I would love to get some version of

53:51

that out. We also have a When

53:54

we originally wrote it, we had no

53:56

idea that we would eventually put it

53:59

on this show. No, so

54:02

we really leaned into some language

54:04

there. But yeah, maybe we can get

54:07

an uncentered version out. We'll look for it.

54:09

But we also will have some more

54:11

things like that on

54:14

the way. So if you enjoy that, stay tuned,

54:16

and if you'd like to hear more of them, write

54:18

to our bosses directly, tag

54:21

how stuff works wherever you find the social

54:23

media platform, say we want more

54:25

of this, and who

54:28

knows.

54:28

It might happen. You might make it come true.

54:31

Yeah, you might manifest it. Right.

54:34

We have another shout

54:36

out from Kate Landis,

54:39

who says conspiracy stuff. I once went to

54:41

the doctor for an abscess. They told me that antibiotics

54:44

don't do anything for a normal absess, but

54:46

that doctors like to prescribe them to

54:48

make the patient feel like something is being

54:50

done. Then they prescribed

54:52

me antibiotics. I didn't

54:54

take them.

54:55

Hmmm, good on you, Kat

54:58

Kate Kite, Kate ay

55:02

Kite.

55:02

I think it's Kate, oh with a

55:05

little Australians.

55:06

Yeah, Kite linis I will.

55:08

I heard one of our I was checking on some of

55:10

one of our earlier episodes and you did a

55:12

great Australian accent.

55:14

You know. I did the same thing, and you

55:16

were amazing at your Australian

55:19

accent, did I?

55:19

Yeah? Oh? Really? Yeah? Oh man,

55:22

Okay, Well I can only

55:24

do it for maybe four very specific words,

55:26

and unfortunately none of them form a COHERI.

55:30

But but to Kate's

55:32

points, that's that's a very

55:35

valid concern. We know that the over prescription

55:37

of antibiotics has been

55:39

a literal case of something they don't

55:41

want you to know.

55:42

Yeah, making all the stuff that those antibiotics

55:45

are supposed to fight even stronger if

55:47

you don't take the full dose in

55:49

the right amount of time, right,

55:52

and uh yeah, it's it's really bad.

55:54

So then everybody else taking antibiotics

55:57

decreases their ability to fight the thing because

55:59

the thing is now stronger.

56:01

We should maybe we should look into some

56:04

of that, the current state of antibiotics.

56:06

We did Rise of the Superbug, but

56:08

I don't know if we've looked at I

56:11

don't know if we've looked at it too

56:13

recently, and unfortunately the situation

56:16

is changing.

56:17

Only getting worse.

56:18

Man, I've pulled up Pandemic

56:20

too again, that online game, and

56:23

I started to play it and it just got too

56:25

depressing because it

56:28

could happen.

56:29

Yeah, so that's a little too real for my

56:31

taste. Well, thank you for writing to us. When

56:35

our last shout out for the day comes from Sunshine

56:37

Kid twenty one and Sunshine

56:39

Kid twenty one says, could you guys

56:41

do a podcast about root canals?

56:44

I heard it was a scam and it causes health

56:46

problems, et cetera. Thanks. I love the podcasts

56:49

root canals as a conspiracy.

56:51

That's interesting. I had heard that the

56:56

metal filling that

56:59

is used Malcolm, that is,

57:01

is that what it is amalgam that is

57:03

used in cavities

57:06

can have dangerous health

57:08

effects potentially root

57:11

canals I'm not too aware of, but

57:13

I will say it's honestly surprising that

57:17

dentistry uses some of the

57:19

same old techniques and

57:21

has for quite a while, for decades.

57:25

But it would be interesting to look into.

57:28

Oh do you see that it's

57:31

Josh and Chuck. They're waving at us get

57:33

out of the studio.

57:34

Oh, I thought that was just a hello wave. Okay,

57:36

well I've just been waving to them for like five

57:38

minutes, so sorry.

57:39

Maybe that's all they're doing. Oh nope, nope,

57:42

I'm pretty sure I know what that sign means.

57:44

You're holding up a sign. It says this is

57:46

the end of your

57:51

and they are correct. However, it is not the end

57:53

of the show. Matt, Paul, Nol and

57:55

I will be back very soon. We

57:58

hope that you will join us as well.

58:00

In the meantime, you can find us on Instagram,

58:02

Twitter, You can find us on.

58:06

Facebook, yeah, Facebook, and

58:09

that stuff they don't want you to know, dot Com where

58:11

you can find every episode we've ever produced,

58:13

and some videos and some other stuff. Pictures

58:16

of Ben. If you want to look at pictures of Ben, go to

58:18

stuff they don't want you to know dot com.

58:21

You really sold me out on now one.

58:23

And they're pictures of me too, And.

58:25

There're a lot and you can

58:27

find various different stories up for one

58:29

reason or another might not make

58:31

it on the show yet.

58:33

Hey, are you listening to Ridiculous History yet?

58:36

You should be. It's the show that our

58:38

friends Ben and Noel are hosting.

58:41

It is really fun and you guys are

58:43

doing some really fun stuff with guests

58:45

on your show that you've

58:48

discussed with me about, and then I've been listening to

58:50

it as a fan because it's really

58:52

really fun. Specifically with our

58:55

complaint department here on this show, mister

58:57

Jonathan Strickland.

58:58

Oh yeah, who is available for any complaints

59:00

or concerns twenty four hours a day, seven days

59:03

a week, Jonathan dot Strickland at HowStuffWorks

59:05

dot com. And you know

59:07

we value the complaints gip

59:09

us honest. Make sure you send them to the right address

59:11

so we can treat them with the import

59:14

they deserve. You might be asking why

59:17

why my longtime colleague

59:20

Matt is not on the show A Ridiculous History.

59:22

There is a reason. It turns out

59:24

that Matt is one of the masterminds behind

59:27

one of the most popular shows

59:29

on Apple podcast as we

59:31

speak, Atlanta Monster. If

59:34

you like this show, you will love Atlanta

59:36

Monster.

59:37

Yeah, subscribe today, new

59:39

episodes every Friday. We're looking

59:42

into the missing

59:44

and murdered children cases from nineteen seventy

59:46

nine to eighty one in Atlanta.

59:49

So you know, start listening if you're not already.

59:52

And that's the end of this classic episode.

59:54

If you have any thoughts or questions

59:57

about this episode. You can get

59:59

into contact with us in a number of different

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