0:13

Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode

0:16

38 of Spiritist Conversations,

0:18

where we sit down with friends and have

0:21

great conversations about everything

0:23

from a Spiritist perspective. My

0:25

name is Dan Assisi, and today

0:28

I am joined here by

0:30

the Uncomparable Susana Simoes

0:33

and the ever happy Flavio Zanetti.

0:35

How are you guys doing?

0:38

Hey Dan. Hey

0:40

Dan. Hey Flavio. Good to see you

0:42

guys.

0:44

Likewise. Likewise. Good to see everyone.

0:47

Yes, it's really great to see you guys. We're

0:49

in different parts of the planet today. Flavio

0:52

is in Italy. Susana is holding the fort in the

0:54

US for us. I'm in the Bahamas. And

0:56

we're just stretching our spiritual

0:58

wings today and, connecting virtually

1:00

from different places. Very excited

1:03

to see you guys. It's been a while. It's always

1:05

reassuring and uplifting for me to have

1:07

a conversation with you guys. And

1:09

today I hope we're going to have a great conversation.

1:12

But before we introduce our guest,

1:15

I just want to remind folks who might be watching

1:17

this on different channels on the

1:19

web that if you make your way

1:22

to the Spiritist Conversation YouTube

1:24

or Facebook channels, that's the

1:26

best way for you to interact with us. Sometimes

1:29

because we broadcast to different places, we

1:31

don't get to see all the comments that you might

1:33

be placing. And so we're really happy

1:35

to have your interaction, so feel free. to

1:38

come and interact with us. We love being

1:40

with you. And if you're here, just drop

1:43

us a comment. Let us know where you're coming from

1:45

and pop in your questions and be part of the conversation

1:47

as well. So Zanna,

1:50

Flavio, are you guys ready to dive into a interesting

1:52

and different topic

1:53

today? Absolutely. This is

1:55

an interesting one. I'm on it. Yes.

1:57

Yes. Yes. I'm very excited to see

2:00

what's going to come out of it. And

2:02

what can we take to our daily lives

2:04

after this conversation?

2:07

Great. So let's go ahead and bring Sharon.

2:09

Sharon, thanks for being with us.

2:15

I feel like I've been invited to a party,

2:17

a Friday night party here.

2:21

Welcome, Sharon. It's good to see you.

2:23

Yeah, we're what you asked for sharing

2:26

to be aware what you asked for. That's

2:28

all I'm gonna say. But Sharon,

2:30

we're really thrilled to have you here today.

2:32

Sharon has been

2:34

who in contact with us for such a long

2:37

time. Now we've been talking about different ways

2:39

of collaborating and finding a way

2:41

to get her voice here in Spiritist

2:43

conversations too. And I think this is

2:45

a perfect episode for Sharon to

2:47

come in and we'll let her talk a little bit

2:49

about herself. But among other things,

2:52

she's an international leadership coach

2:54

people. So to talk about leadership

2:56

and Jesus, I think that would be great

2:58

to have such a wonderful feed perspective

3:01

on this. But Sharon, I won't do you

3:03

justice. Tell us a little bit about

3:05

who you are and what you do.

3:08

Okay, well, I am

3:10

a member of the Boston

3:12

Area Spiritist Center

3:14

where I see Flavio on many occasions

3:17

and Daniel and Susanna

3:20

occasionally when you come to town. It's

3:24

interesting how things have come full circle

3:26

because it's my

3:28

International leadership coaching that brought me to

3:31

spiritism, which is that I had

3:33

a just spectacular

3:35

client by the name of Thais Moriyama

3:38

from Brazil, who after

3:41

we completed our work together and she decided

3:44

where she wanted to go in her career

3:46

and leadership herself that

3:49

she sent me as a thank you all

3:51

these spiritist books. And

3:53

I Picked up the first

3:55

one, which was, uh, Renunciation.

3:57

I chose from the many books she sent me. She and

3:59

her mother decided, actually, I've

4:01

worn this as this is a gift from Thais

4:04

and her mother of the Black

4:06

Virgin who saved those fishermen in

4:08

Brazil. And once I started reading

4:10

Renunciation, I

4:13

I just started one page after the other and

4:16

could not stop reading. I read it just cover

4:18

to cover. And I was, landing,

4:21

10 point Olympic, land in

4:24

spiritism. And I have never looked back.

4:26

That was about five years ago. So

4:28

interestingly, we, I've come around,

4:30

I've come to the circle here where we're

4:33

talking about what brought me into spiritism in

4:35

the first place. So I was thinking

4:37

about that when I was coming in today, you know, this is.

4:40

This is great how this has come around.

4:44

That is awesome. That is fantastic. This personal

4:46

connection is something that I think many of

4:48

us can attest to. I think many people

4:50

find spiritism through this personal

4:53

connection with somebody because let's be honest,

4:55

spiritism is not as widely

4:58

well known as different philosophies or bodies

5:00

of knowledge or even religions out there, right?

5:02

Right. Yeah. Yeah. So

5:04

it has been so that's why it's so exciting

5:06

for me to be on this conversation today with

5:08

you. I just you know, I'm so grateful for

5:12

the thousands of things that

5:14

Spiritism has given me and the perspectives

5:16

it has given me. And actually when I was writing

5:18

this last book Genesis helped

5:21

me inform it and

5:23

my studies with the Spiritist group helped

5:25

me. You know, ask different questions.

5:27

It's it's very integral to my life

5:29

and my work. So it seems like

5:31

you're an author as well? Yeah.

5:34

Oh, yes. I am an author of a series

5:36

of books. The most recent one is

5:38

called The Superpower of Balanced

5:40

Leadership in Unbalanced.

5:44

So here we are.

5:48

A very appropriate title, a very appropriate

5:50

title.

5:51

In which people say a lot of, Amen, sister.

5:53

Yes, here we are. Yes.

5:58

Great. So, the reason why

6:00

we wanted you here today, Sharon, besides the

6:02

fact that you're awesome is that, we

6:04

were really trying to look at this incredible

6:06

figure, Jesus Christ, which,

6:08

I personally think is often

6:10

misunderstood or under understood

6:13

in many different ways. We've made him

6:15

to be a religious figure.

6:17

But in many different ways, there's so many

6:19

wonderful lessons that we can take

6:22

from his leadership and how he handled different

6:24

things and how he saw the world, who

6:26

he talked to, how he went about

6:28

things, doing things that sometimes

6:31

I think that we don't notice because we put

6:33

him in a small little box, right?

6:35

And and I thought it'd be great to have a conversation

6:37

about his leadership style, especially

6:40

in this difficult times that we live in where

6:42

we are having a really tough time talking

6:44

to each other. Being kind to each other,

6:46

accepting different perspectives and different

6:48

approaches. I think that if we live

6:50

out there today in the world, that's all we

6:53

do. I think we can agree with that

6:55

piece. And this is a topic that

6:57

is really cool. About 20 years

6:59

ago, not that I want to date myself. I

7:01

came across this interesting book called

7:03

Jesus CEO by

7:05

Lauren Beth Cope. That was published in 1996.

7:09

And I really thought it was like an eye opening

7:11

piece because it was like, Oh my God, I had never thought

7:13

about Jesus that way. And so I could not help

7:16

but think about that today. And

7:18

so really excited to have you here to talk about that. Excellent.

7:21

Yeah.

7:22

I think it's totally you, but most people have

7:24

not thought about Jesus in that way. Right Dan?

7:26

I mean, it's, uh, it's

7:29

people usually are, they think

7:31

about Jesus from a religious connotation

7:34

and they stop right there and everybody.

7:37

Juxtapose, right, all his teachings,

7:39

all his leadership examples in order to

7:41

really study or look into from

7:43

that angle. So you're not alone, and

7:46

I think still most people, when they automatically

7:48

see or read the word Jesus, they

7:51

associate that with the religious figure,

7:54

not so much so with the in the leader that Jesus

7:56

was or still is for a lot of us, right?

8:00

Yeah, we tend to, um, to

8:02

keep Jesus in this very,

8:06

Narrow perspective

8:08

and today we're going to talk about leadership,

8:10

but we could also think of him, his

8:13

role as educator, his

8:15

role as a

8:17

doctor. and

8:19

physician, right? So

8:22

there are many ways in which

8:24

we can go way beyond

8:27

the religious figure and

8:29

bring into, other roles

8:32

that relate to our

8:34

society and our living and learn

8:36

from him. So it will be interesting

8:39

to talk about this today, but certainly

8:42

there is room for more in the future.

8:45

Right, right. When I talk

8:47

about the superpower balance leadership,

8:49

I think Jesus is just probably,

8:52

I'm probably the best image person

8:55

that you can imagine, because

8:57

he was so fully human. He was,

9:00

he, he and he

9:02

embodied all of our sort of gave

9:04

examples of all of our best traits. You talk

9:06

about him as a, as

9:08

an educator, and as a healer.

9:11

And all of those are aspects

9:13

that we have of ourselves. And

9:16

if you think about him in that

9:18

particular way, he

9:21

leads it with all these different dimensions. It's

9:23

so he's so multidimensional. And one of

9:25

the things I love that spiritism has

9:27

brought to me is this total

9:29

reframing of how who Jesus

9:31

was, you know, the governor of the planet. He's

9:34

not this one dimensional kind

9:36

of person who came to earth. So I love

9:38

thinking about him in all the ways you're describing.

9:42

Or an absent leader, right? Because sometimes

9:44

we think that if we have the perspective

9:47

that he came once and then

9:49

we're still waiting for the second coming of

9:51

Christ, it's almost like, where has he

9:53

been? Is he an absent leader? How

9:55

can a good leader be absent? Probably

9:58

not. Right. So I think he's a lot closer

10:00

than we imagined. I think maybe it's a way for us to

10:02

jump in there and say, what

10:05

do you guys think about Jesus as a leadership

10:07

model? What is it that jumps out at

10:11

you? I think the

10:13

very, the big one that comes to me

10:15

is about server leadership, right? So

10:18

he was the server leader per excellence.

10:20

And if you look at a lot of business studies show

10:23

nowadays that servant leaders

10:25

are way more effective than

10:28

leaders that don't play the role of servant

10:30

leadership. I mean, we have several

10:32

examples of servant leaders. Obviously,

10:34

the one that really comes to mind is Abraham

10:36

Lincoln, right? One of the first ones.

10:38

We have, for example, Steve Jobs and so many

10:40

others that really played that role.

10:43

Obviously, not as good as Jesus, but played the

10:45

role. Of servant leadership that

10:47

made it made a change or made an impact into

10:50

the modern world, so to speak, they

10:52

can really make some connections with

10:54

servant leadership. That's the way at least to me. That's

10:56

what comes to mind right away.

10:58

Flavio, do you really think Steve Jobs was

11:00

a servant leader?

11:03

I do believe so. I do believe so. If you read

11:05

his biography, his autobiography. A

11:07

lot of the things that he did was towards

11:10

helping, enabling these people, pushing these

11:12

people towards success, and

11:14

maybe not 100% of the time, obviously, right? But

11:17

the a good chunk of it, I think it was.

11:20

I'll take your word on that. It's the first time I

11:22

think of Steve Jobs as a servant

11:24

leader, but I think you do have a point.

11:28

When I think about that servant leadership

11:30

of Jesus, one of the things that I think

11:32

about is that he had such love,

11:35

such compassion. He felt

11:37

people's pain. He went out of

11:39

his way to help heal them.

11:42

So he was a, what I call a relational

11:44

leader. It's one of the six powers that he

11:46

had. The other thing he did as

11:48

a servant leader, a relational leader, is

11:50

he established a community that

11:52

has lasted millennia. I

11:55

mean, think of what he does and how he has called

11:57

us to serve other people. And

12:00

he's called us to do work

12:02

for the social good. And

12:04

that is, of course, one of his major

12:06

messages. But he is a relational

12:09

or servant leader par excellence.

12:11

I try to when I establish

12:13

groups of leaders, one of the things I try

12:15

to do is community. And imagine

12:18

what he did to establish a community

12:20

that served each other for

12:22

millennia. I mean, wow.

12:26

Wow. Well, and I'm gonna

12:28

piggyback on that one sharing because not only did

12:30

he create a community, But he

12:32

went out of his way to get

12:34

people with different backgrounds in that community,

12:37

right? His initial

12:40

team was not homogeneous,

12:42

right? We had fishermen,

12:45

we had tax collectors, right? We had all

12:47

kinds of different groups of people,

12:50

some of which obviously knew each other. But

12:52

some of which perhaps were not very

12:54

welcome at first. So I love that he

12:56

built that diverse team. We're talking about

12:58

diversity, equity and inclusion nowadays,

13:01

right? He

13:02

was the OG. He was the OG on that piece, right? He was

13:04

the D& E

13:09

master. Yeah, the diversity

13:11

and inclusion and equity master. Yeah,

13:13

I

13:13

love

13:14

it. Yeah, and went way out

13:16

of his way and then had his disciples go

13:18

way and way and way out of their way to

13:20

reach across the world.

13:24

Yeah, and to Susana's point about

13:26

the educational piece, I find it hard

13:28

to distinguish his leadership without

13:30

the education piece, right? He empowered

13:33

others. He has not left

13:35

us with a single written

13:38

work. He has not left

13:40

us with anything other than his words

13:42

that we actually hear through others. So

13:44

he really empowered this team of people

13:47

that then created other teams of people

13:49

and who have been speaking to us for millennia.

13:52

I find that incredibly breathtaking

13:54

in many different ways. But Stu, where do you think you're going to jump

13:57

in there?

13:59

No. Yes. When you said in power, I think

14:01

that's you know, to me,

14:03

um, when I think about Jesus

14:05

from this perspective, I think about

14:08

someone who embrace,

14:12

heal, dignify,

14:14

and empower. Those are

14:17

the four ideas

14:19

that I actually think about and

14:22

try to bring to my own day

14:24

to day life. So when I'm dealing with my

14:27

team, With my employees

14:30

is okay. These employees coming to

14:32

me what is this employee

14:34

needs at this moment, he needs to

14:36

be seen, he needs

14:38

to be acknowledged, he

14:40

needs to be healed from

14:43

conflict, from, stress,

14:45

from whatever, is he

14:47

ready to be empowered? Right.

14:49

To feel that he is really

14:52

valued. So

14:54

I, to think about when

14:56

he multiply the bread

14:59

and the fish, he attends the immediate

15:01

need of the crowd, but

15:03

then after that most immediate

15:06

need is met, he goes

15:08

on to, to teach and

15:11

to empower people and to tell

15:13

about all the talents that you had, you were

15:15

like, you were the salt and

15:18

and get them To to fulfill their

15:20

missions from that point on. So

15:22

I have those steps within

15:25

me and it's something that I try, obviously

15:29

we don't, we're not always far

15:31

from being like it's a practice, it's a

15:33

journey, obviously. Uh,

15:35

but those are references that I, I

15:38

hold in myself, uh, for

15:40

the work that I do every day from,

15:43

you know, from thinking of Jesus

15:46

as a leader.

15:48

Yeah, I love that Susana. Yeah, I

15:50

love that. Go

15:51

ahead. Flutter. No, I love that too.

15:53

And if I could maybe unpack the idea

15:55

of Jesus as a servant leader,

15:57

right? In my head, it

15:59

all begins with care because servant leaders,

16:01

they care for their teams. They care

16:03

for their peeps, right? So to speak. So

16:06

he cared about not only the 12 disciples,

16:08

but everybody that he was Really leading,

16:10

right, towards a new life, towards

16:12

the right? A new, you know, reality,

16:15

so to speak. He set the example for

16:17

everybody to follow, right? Hey, walk

16:19

on my shoes, right? I'm the path, the

16:21

way, and the truth. He set the example. He

16:23

always did the right things. Not only for

16:25

himself, but for others, right?

16:28

And he created the right mindset, not only

16:30

for the disciples, but for everybody that wanted

16:33

to follow him. The good thing about, the

16:35

one thing that really catches

16:37

my attention when I look at Jesus leadership

16:39

examples... He allowed people

16:41

to fail. That's a very

16:43

important one to me, right? If you want, teams to be

16:46

successful, right? Teams to work hard,

16:48

to make, a great impact into what

16:50

they do, they have to fail, right?

16:52

Failure means, finding different

16:54

ways to do different things, right? And he

16:56

allowed folks to fail, which to me

16:58

was amazing if you think about it, right? And

17:01

he also empowers

17:02

Can you, can you, can you bring us an example of

17:04

that? Maybe for people who

17:06

are listening to us. It may

17:08

not be so clear.

17:11

Great, great point, Suzana. So, a lot of times,

17:13

if you're a new leader, right, the

17:15

automatic reaction of leading somebody or asking

17:17

somebody to do something that that person doesn't know 100%

17:20

how to do it, it's taking too much time. Let me

17:22

do it myself, right? He never did that. He

17:24

asked others. He asked disciples.

17:26

He asked, you know, several instances

17:28

where he asked folks to go and do things. He

17:31

never really took the reins of... Doing,

17:33

but rather he allowed folks to go

17:36

out, try it out, fail, come back

17:38

and you give the lesson, you give the teachings,

17:40

right? And several opportunities he did

17:42

that. To me, that's a magic

17:45

leadership example, right?

17:47

Yeah, and I can jump in there if you're looking

17:49

for a passage, for instance, I remember in John when

17:51

Jesus tells Peter, before

17:54

the crow, right?

17:57

Sorry, before the rooster crows,

17:59

you rooster crows disavow me three times,

18:01

right? Hey, I'm calling you out. You're

18:04

going to deny me three times. And he was still

18:06

okay with that. And after that happened

18:08

and Jesus and Peter came back quite beat

18:10

up, right? Emotionally and

18:12

obviously psychologically, Jesus

18:14

then picks him up again and he asked, I think you might

18:16

remember this different passage that I don't remember exactly

18:19

which, um, what are the line,

18:21

but he's, he tells Peter, Peter,

18:23

do you love me? And Peter says, yes, of

18:25

course I do. Then take care of

18:27

my sheep. And then he asks,

18:30

Peter, do you love me? And Peter goes. Yes,

18:32

of course, teacher, I do then take

18:35

care of my sheep and then he asked for the third time.

18:38

Do you love me, Peter? And Peter then

18:40

gets it, right? He disallowed.

18:43

Disavow Jesus three times and

18:45

Jesus brought this question three times

18:47

to say, here's your way back from

18:49

your own guilt and self consciousness, right? So

18:52

work hard. So I love that about

18:54

him. I think they did a lot of that, but I also want

18:56

to double click on something that Susanna said, which

18:59

I think was really cool about the communication

19:01

piece, because what really.

19:04

inspires me a lot about Jesus among other

19:06

things. But in this particular area is

19:08

his ability to what we call in the education

19:10

field differentiate. He's able

19:13

to speak to somebody at

19:15

one level because he knows what that

19:17

person needs, and he's able to speak

19:19

to somebody else at a different level because he

19:21

knows what that person needs. So

19:23

we have these great speeches of him talking

19:26

to the crowd. And we have this

19:28

great dialogues of him talking individually

19:30

to people in different pieces with

19:33

exactly what a person needs. And

19:35

that is just an incredible thing that sometimes

19:37

nowadays, I think you get lost

19:40

sometimes in leadership. Because I think people

19:42

feel like they either have to do this great speeches

19:44

or write this great memo or do this

19:47

great thing. But Jesus was able to

19:49

know how to relate. Depending

19:51

on the person's need and

19:54

that was really great. And that is where

19:57

leadership and education kind

19:59

of meet. Because

20:01

another good example is when

20:03

he talks about the

20:06

kingdom of heaven. So

20:08

there are many, many times

20:10

where he's going to explain

20:13

about the kingdom of heaven to

20:15

the people. But he will do it in very

20:17

different ways depending on who he's talking

20:19

to. So, for the farmer

20:22

is the treasure that is hidden

20:24

under the ground, for

20:27

the fish, the fisherman is the

20:29

fish under the water, for, and

20:31

so forth, is the yeast for the

20:33

woman who is baking at

20:35

the house, so it's

20:38

it's really it's quite significant

20:41

his capacity to communicate

20:44

And two, one of the things that I think

20:47

is it's very, um,

20:49

important is how, and

20:51

we're talking about relational leadership.

20:54

And that calls for horizontality.

20:57

So it's being horizontal

21:00

you know, in the relating and

21:03

meeting people where they are.

21:05

But when you are a true

21:08

leader and you are very

21:10

centered on your role

21:13

and what you can do for your team,

21:16

even though you are horizontal

21:19

in the relating, you never lose.

21:21

Your proper place,

21:24

so to speak, in the chain

21:27

of command. I

21:29

don't know if I'm being clear because

21:31

a lot of leaders want

21:33

to be respected by

21:36

imposing. And

21:38

when

21:39

you are naturally

21:41

connected with this role

21:44

of loving and leading

21:47

and enabling. You

21:49

don't have to fight for respect.

21:52

Respect is just a natural

21:54

consequence. People want

21:56

to

21:56

look up to you. I'd love

22:00

that. Yeah, I love that. And I would

22:02

like to piggyback on that immediately because

22:05

what I hear from you is the issue of power

22:08

versus force and

22:10

Jesus was the ultimate sort of

22:12

force. self powered leader. He

22:14

did not have to force. He attracted

22:17

the people to him who wanted to learn.

22:20

So the, um, so that's

22:22

a very, very important thing. So he

22:24

had this natural power wherever he

22:26

stood was the hub of his power

22:28

and people came to him because

22:31

of that. So there was no force. In

22:34

him, right? And that allowed

22:36

him to stand up to the literally

22:38

the political forces of his day.

22:41

And the one more thing I'd like to say to piggyback

22:44

on your teaching thing is I

22:46

am so impressed as I look at

22:48

it about how he could teach anyone

22:51

according to their level of understanding

22:53

and their desire to learn. And so. We

22:55

have the parables and then Kardec

22:57

came along and, gave us more of this

23:00

whole body of work. But he,

23:02

people would take what they needed from

23:04

the parables according to what they understood.

23:07

So he spoke to us when he

23:09

was here. In exactly

23:12

the language that we needed. And

23:14

that's an extraordinary thing. It's like reading one of

23:16

those books that's for children, but it's really for

23:18

adults, you know, we

23:22

have a lot of examples in that literature. And

23:24

that's, I think the way he. He

23:26

taught and he inspired and so you

23:28

could take every time I read something

23:31

and Daniel you're such a master of

23:33

this that you go into a story

23:36

and you talk about it and I'm going well I didn't see

23:38

that. I didn't notice that.

23:40

Oh, please Sharon. Keep

23:42

going. Keep going. That's good Flattery

23:46

will get you everywhere, Sharon. Keep going.

23:51

Yeah, so

23:53

that's a, that's a form of genius

23:55

and of power being able to interpret,

23:58

to translate, to the level of the person you're speaking

24:00

with it's the greatest teacher. What can you say?

24:03

Yeah. I think the great analogy that I've heard one,

24:05

not on Jesus, but I'd love to

24:08

connect with him. It's someone that

24:10

can really speak at

24:12

the boardroom level. All the way down

24:14

to the boiler room level, right?

24:18

Going up and down, depending on what levels he

24:20

was talking to, right? Being through

24:22

parables. To me,

24:24

since Dan mentioned about the communication style,

24:27

to me, one of the most important

24:29

traits, or traits, I should say, of

24:31

a great leader is the ability to

24:33

ask very good questions.

24:36

Yes. And to me, Jesus asked... Amazingly

24:40

good questions, right? That

24:42

if you don't stop to share, right? If you don't stop, if

24:45

you don't stop to think about

24:47

it, it's, uh, some of them get

24:50

lost. So, for example, if you remember when the

24:52

blind beggar comes

24:54

to talk to him, Right? What?

24:57

What? What's his question? What

24:59

do you want me to do? Right?

25:01

He asked that of everybody. What would you have

25:03

me do? What do you

25:06

want me to do? Really? He's a natural coach.

25:08

Dude! I'm blind! I'm sick!

25:10

What else? But really? Is

25:12

that? Is that what

25:15

you want me to do for you? Heal you and you

25:17

go. So I think asking a very good

25:19

questions to me spoke,

25:21

I mean, speaks very highly of how

25:23

Jesus was well connected with

25:26

needs from everybody that he served,

25:28

right? He always spoke the truth, no

25:31

matter what he, who he talked to, right?

25:34

He always used the truth, not

25:36

only to hurt or never hurt people,

25:38

but to really set the tone of a conversation,

25:40

right? So he always engaged. In

25:43

the very productive conversation,

25:45

every opportunity that he had, he

25:47

let, he left somebody bad

25:50

when that person, before that person saw him, right?

25:52

And that should be, as spiritists that

25:54

we all are, should be all of our major,

25:56

our math, our most aspiration, right?

25:59

to leave somebody better

26:01

than before we encounter an individual

26:03

of that person. To me,

26:05

I would say, I would say even not, that's not

26:07

even a spirit testing, that's a human being thing, right?

26:09

As human beings, we should just do that leave

26:12

people better than we found them but Sharon,

26:14

taking what Flavio said, let's go back to something you

26:16

said, which I think was really power. You talked about six

26:19

powers that Jesus had, right?

26:21

Could you talk to us a little bit about your insights

26:23

into that? And you guys have touched

26:26

on on a bunch of them. And, uh,

26:28

so the, in the, in the balance

26:30

leadership program, as we look at Jesus through this

26:33

lens the image that I like people to have

26:35

is the center in the four directions, the compass.

26:37

So think of the compass as

26:39

as something that we have in our hands. It's our

26:42

native birthright. This is what

26:44

we have. Because we're human. And so

26:46

as human, we have these six

26:48

powers, which, of course, Jesus exemplified

26:51

in their highest forms. So

26:54

the first power is our

26:56

core at our core. Who

26:58

are we? And who are we at

27:00

our best? And what are our gifts that

27:03

we need to bring to the world? to leave

27:05

the world a better place, to make the world a better

27:07

place. And do we own these and

27:09

bring these out? And this

27:11

is what I call authentic leadership. And

27:13

we could talk for hours about

27:15

the authenticity of Jesus and the values

27:18

that he instilled in us and

27:20

then has had us carry on. The

27:22

second is inspirational leadership. When we talk

27:24

about the teaching, when we talk about

27:26

continuing to learn and raising

27:29

our hope and having to see a different world,

27:31

envision a different world and let's

27:33

make it happen. Let's bring us all there.

27:36

The third is motivational leadership,

27:38

and that is that's doing it. That's

27:40

acting. So not only do we

27:42

have some good ideas, but We have to show

27:44

up at the center and we have to help

27:46

out and we have to act a day

27:49

in a daily basis with the people who

27:51

just frankly annoy us a lot. And so

27:53

he's always out there doing these actions

27:55

that make the world a better place. The

27:57

fourth is the relational or servant

28:00

leadership, which we've discussed extensively

28:03

of which he was obviously a master

28:05

and, and I, and an idol for us.

28:08

The fifth is managerial leadership.

28:10

And I think Jesus did.

28:12

I mean, he paid attention to details

28:14

and he took, looked at the comfort of the people

28:16

around him and he did, those things to

28:19

take care of our human needs. He

28:21

didn't dismiss that. I mean, look

28:23

who he was and yet he didn't make

28:25

that small, you know, he paid attention

28:27

to that. And the sixth is, of course,

28:31

The miracle worker, the systems worker,

28:33

the context, the bringing of the divine.

28:35

How are we connected to the divine?

28:38

How do we make miracles in our own

28:40

lives by putting all of these things

28:42

together? So that's the

28:44

approach that I take. And when we

28:46

own our powers, when we stand in

28:48

our power, as opposed to what Susanna was talking

28:51

about, which is force, when we stand

28:53

in our power, we will create miracles and

28:55

that. Lifts everyone up, and I think

28:57

that's our responsibility as Spiritists.

29:00

How do we lift everyone? Around

29:03

us up.

29:05

Love it. Love it. I love it. I

29:08

love it. All right.

29:11

That was a show. Everybody. We love it. See you. See

29:14

you next week.

29:17

And there's so many wonderful examples

29:19

when we that we can look to about well, how do I do

29:21

this? How can I be this kind of a great leader in this

29:23

particular power? Well, let's

29:27

take it over.

29:29

Is there one or two that

29:31

you think are more important than the other ones?

29:35

The one that's most important for you to develop

29:37

is the one where you

29:39

sort of have a uh,

29:42

you're not paying attention. So, for

29:44

example, if I'll give myself, I am

29:46

the poster child for one of these. And

29:48

one of the reasons I wrote this book is

29:51

so I could get better in these things. And so

29:53

I'm one of those writers that says, I'm

29:55

not doing this very well. I have to figure this out. And

29:57

so then I write to try and figure it out. So

29:59

for example, the power that is

30:01

the weakest for me is the

30:03

managerial leadership or the structure

30:06

element. I always have to work extra hard at

30:08

that. But when I do,

30:10

when I assume my And

30:19

I have, when I accept responsibility

30:21

for that, and I do all those structural

30:23

things, which is taking care of the finances

30:26

and making sure the legal documents are in

30:28

order and and doing, and

30:31

going into the HTML and making

30:33

sure the online reports are working,

30:35

when I do those things, which is like chewing

30:37

nails for me, okay? I.

30:41

I have pumped up that tire that

30:43

was not working so well, and my car

30:45

is rolling along. So, each

30:47

one of those, we were given this

30:50

sense of what it is to be human, and we

30:52

need all of these things. So, knowing

30:54

that has made me a way

30:56

better leader, because I'm paying attention

30:59

to all of them. And if

31:01

you can think about it like a car on the road, and

31:03

all the tires have to be pumped up

31:05

sufficiently. Just enough so you

31:07

can go. You will have your preferences.

31:10

But I think if we look at Jesus he did

31:12

them all. He

31:14

was a really full leader, a full

31:17

human being, and he showed us

31:19

it was possible. He showed

31:21

us this ideal that we can move to. Okay.

31:26

Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I think is so

31:28

unique about him in many different ways, right? It's

31:30

the fact that he was so well rounded

31:32

and so great in many different ways. Obviously

31:35

I think we all heard of that passage of the woman

31:37

who's going to get stoned for being adulterous,

31:40

right? And then he turns around and he

31:42

does things on the, on the ground and eventually

31:44

everybody leaves and he turns to

31:46

her and says, This woman who has

31:48

condemned you? No one. She says

31:51

then you're free. But then he tells her, and,

31:53

but go and sin no more. So he's saying,

31:55

Hey, we understand you. We're

31:57

being empathetic. Everybody has made a mistake

31:59

before. It's okay.

32:01

You are off the hook today, so to speak. But,

32:05

but don't do it again. Yeah.

32:08

So there's also this powerful mixture

32:11

of tenderness. Right. Thank you. and

32:14

force, right? Or, or,

32:16

or whatever you want to call that,

32:18

right? Of, of rightfulness,

32:20

uh, righteousness, I should say. That

32:22

I think is really touching. It's like there is the feminine

32:24

and the masculine. There is the, a well rounded

32:27

approach that I think is so rare for us

32:29

to find nowadays.

32:31

That's the balanced aspect of it is

32:33

that he didn't leave as it were

32:35

any stone unturned. If we're going to continue with

32:37

this particular story, he you

32:39

know, he did both of these

32:41

things and I love your comparison

32:44

of the male and the female, because

32:46

here's another example where I feel

32:48

he had extraordinary balance. And

32:51

if you look at the symbol that I

32:53

use, which is the center in the four directions,

32:56

that actually is encoded. both

32:58

male and female leadership at

33:01

a in a balance. So

33:03

I think he exemplified that in

33:06

the tenderness, you said, and in the

33:08

strength of no nonsense

33:10

kind of strength.

33:13

Yeah. And by male and female, we want to be clear, right?

33:15

These are by no way gender specific

33:17

traits. We were just talking about traditious animus

33:20

and anima that young brought forth.

33:22

Y different ways. Yin yang and

33:24

like this different opposites. But I think that this

33:26

balance is a really powerful thing

33:29

in general for us. And what else jumps

33:31

out at you guys that Jesus did so

33:33

well that stuck with you when it comes

33:35

to dealing with people and leading with people?

33:42

If you don't, if you don't speak, I will,

33:44

but you know, I'm trying to be polite here, people.

33:46

I, I, I, there must be something

33:48

wrong with Flavio. You're trying to be a good leader, huh?

33:51

Yeah, I try Flavio's audio because he's in

33:53

power right now.

33:55

You know, we got to say this, Flavio, if you're watching

33:58

this, you'll notice that Flavio has a little bit of a darker

34:00

background. Flavio is doing some

34:02

really great stuff here today. He's in Italy.

34:04

There is a blackout where he is.

34:07

He's running on battery on borrowed time.

34:09

So thank you, Flavio. For for

34:11

making it happen. If I were to disappear,

34:13

I wouldn't have lost this for anything. I

34:15

wouldn't have missed this for anything. It's already

34:17

sadly my time here. So it's 12 38

34:20

a. m. Oh, oh my gosh. He's back. The

34:22

life is back. The miracle. You just,

34:25

you just, you just mentioned this and everything's back. Look

34:28

at

34:29

this. The light is back. You're flying there. Look at that. But

34:32

there goes our excuse, but there

34:34

goes the excuse of just being able to kick Flavio

34:36

out if we don't like what he says and pretend it was

34:38

a blackout.

34:39

So cannot kick me out, no, no. What

34:41

I wanted to say is, I wanted to go

34:44

back to what you mentioned, right, that

34:46

Jesus is the ideal

34:48

model for not only a leader, but

34:50

the ideal model for humankind overall. If

34:53

you look at, for example what called

34:55

you Gus, you know, idea of ideal

34:57

humankind, you guys

34:59

mentioned this, right? At the same time, Jesus

35:01

had the initiative, the courage, the

35:04

objectivity, right, as well as the

35:06

intuition, the capacity of love

35:08

or the spiritual wisdom. That's

35:10

really demonstrated in a lot of examples

35:12

when he, for example, expelled

35:15

the merchants. that were turning the

35:17

synagogues into a market, right?

35:19

Very energetic, very, you

35:22

know, gregarious in a way that, no, get

35:24

out of here, this is not your place to be. He

35:26

was very you know, emphatic and

35:29

really putting those people out. At the same

35:31

time, when he invites the children to

35:33

talk to me, right? As the children come

35:35

to me, he shows his other side.

35:38

And on his, again, leadership, principles,

35:41

he was able to understand. The

35:43

intrinsic needs for everyone

35:45

that he was leading and he was really talking to,

35:48

to tap or to really uh, achieve

35:50

what those people needed at that time, right?

35:52

I think that to me is a, it's a magnanimous

35:55

faculty that leaders, we

35:58

as leaders have to understand people

36:00

come to us for different reasons. And

36:02

if we're able to really move away

36:04

from the surface, right, the tip of the

36:07

iceberg, what's really driving

36:09

that person's behavior, right? Or that person's

36:11

interest and all that. I think to me,

36:13

there was nobody else that did as Matt,

36:15

nobody mastered this. The way Jesus

36:18

did. So to me, it's just phenomenal,

36:20

right? I love that, Flavio, and

36:22

I love that you said the courage that he

36:24

had, too, right? Because I think

36:26

that he does something that is really hard for

36:28

us to do nowadays, which is have difficult

36:30

conversations, right? We

36:32

all struggle with having difficult, crucial

36:34

conversations, so to speak, where the

36:36

stakes are high, things are important, and he did

36:39

it in a way that it was not

36:41

aggressive, right? He was able

36:43

to speak truth and speak to the Spirit.

36:45

It wasn't speaking to the physical, he was speaking to the spiritual,

36:48

and that obviously he had credibility,

36:50

he had authenticity, he lived it, and he

36:52

did that, and he was very courageous in that sense,

36:54

because he had his eyes on what was

36:56

best. For everybody,

36:59

not only for him, right? And

37:01

I think it's really, that's really a powerful thing

37:03

because sometimes we get trapped on what

37:05

is it that I need right now? What's my angle?

37:08

What do I need to get out of this? As opposed to what's

37:10

best for everybody. He was able to convey

37:12

that message to such an extent

37:15

that one of the things that I admire the most about

37:17

Jesus that I only learned later as

37:19

I started to study a little bit more. It's his

37:21

ability to cross lines, right? And break

37:23

taboos at the time. So, for instance, things

37:26

that we take for granted, but he went

37:28

out and spoke to women when they were

37:30

by themselves. That's something that

37:32

did not take place at that time and place.

37:35

Like a man would not just simply go out

37:37

to a woman and start speaking

37:39

with her. If she were by herself he

37:42

also spoke to different people who were

37:44

considered perhaps not as good

37:46

or not as friendly the Samaritans

37:49

that there were like the Jews and Samaritans didn't really

37:51

see eye to eye and Samaritans were considered to

37:53

be perhaps in less than but

37:56

he made a point of sharing many different

37:58

stories about how there's a good Samaritan.

38:00

That's even a parable like the good Samaritan for

38:02

us is just a term But back in the time,

38:05

a good Samaritan would be even more impactful

38:07

as a message because many people would be,

38:09

will be thinking that there is no good Samaritan. It's

38:12

impossible to have a good Samaritan, right?

38:14

Which is not different than

38:17

the way I think our world is crumbling,

38:19

the cookie is crumbling today, right? Where we

38:21

think that because somebody's part of a political

38:23

party or a nation or a preference,

38:26

Whatever it is, we think that they cannot be good. And

38:29

so this ability to walk and across borders,

38:31

across groups and talk to people about

38:34

the spirit, about their needs, it's so

38:36

inspiring. Because sometimes I struggle with those

38:38

difficult conversations, right? And

38:41

sometimes I ask myself, Ooh, Am

38:43

I being the right amount of courageous in this conversation?

38:46

I don't want to come again, come as charged

38:48

and I don't want to wimp out from actually

38:50

saying this is important to me. And

38:52

I think he did that so well in many different ways,

38:55

right? That I think still sticks as a, as

38:57

an example for me, 2000 years

38:59

later, it's amazing.

39:00

Yeah. It's funny. Um, where

39:03

you guys are saying really resonates

39:05

with me. And when you ask what you guys have

39:07

more to say, and we were like quiet

39:09

for a second I was

39:12

kind of, you know, after Sharon

39:15

spoke about the six powers,

39:17

I felt like I needed a minute to digest

39:19

it. And where I was is

39:21

like, Oh, let me think about those things.

39:24

And then when you ask about, what

39:27

You know, of those six, it stands

39:29

out most to you, and I'm not sure if

39:32

I understood correctly,

39:34

but when you spoke about the

39:36

core, because I wrote everything down

39:38

the core of who we are, our best,

39:40

our gifts, and authentic leadership

39:43

and values, I think

39:45

that's one of the things that I struggle

39:47

at work. I think

39:50

that leaders were expected

39:52

to be in a certain way, behave

39:55

in a certain way. And

39:58

in every moment and

40:00

time in my life, my,

40:02

my work is to

40:04

be myself, my authentic

40:06

self. I want to be able

40:09

to speak honestly and freely

40:11

about my feelings, my emotions.

40:14

Without judgment, without shame,

40:16

and I think that's that there is a

40:18

place for that in leadership as

40:20

well. And, you

40:22

know, going back to Dan and Flavio,

40:25

I think that Jesus portrayed that.

40:27

He was himself at

40:29

all times. He didn't change.

40:32

And, we, in leadership, and depending

40:34

on the size of the institution that you work

40:37

there are a lot of politics and a lot

40:39

of things to be considered. So, navigating

40:42

that can be challenging,

40:45

right? But I, I still

40:47

try as much as possible to be,

40:50

you know, as authentic and

40:53

transparent. With my thinking,

40:55

but also with my feelings,

40:58

I would love to give you some feedback. Susanna,

41:00

because I have attended your lectures

41:03

and your authenticity

41:05

ripples out from your core. You

41:08

are so there where

41:10

you are. And what happens

41:13

when someone does that as a leader

41:15

or in your case, a speaker, but you're leading us with

41:17

your speaking is that it allows

41:19

us to be Like, Ourselves

41:22

in that moment we can settle

41:24

into it and there's places where we as human

41:26

beings overlap Where I have this in common

41:28

with you and you have just resonated

41:31

it or vibrated It with

41:33

me. Does that make sense? Yes

41:36

That's what I that's what I feel. So the effort

41:38

that you put into being authentic

41:41

Ripples out to everyone you speak

41:43

with and everyone you touch. It is a

41:46

major blessing When we

41:48

do this as leaders or as human

41:50

beings when we are our authentic

41:52

selves.

41:54

Yeah, plus one on that.

41:56

Yeah, plus a thousand because there's a lot of

41:59

studies that show that the more

42:01

vulnerable leaders are, the easier

42:03

they have in building trust with their teams,

42:05

and the more teams trust each other, the

42:08

more they perform really

42:10

well together. So, vulnerability

42:12

based trust is one of the characteristics

42:14

of a servant leader. That's not really... you

42:16

know, shame. So you know what? I'm sorry.

42:18

I made a mistake. You know, there was a wrong decision.

42:21

Let's back up and go to the left versus

42:23

right now, right? And being able to do that.

42:26

I think it's a phenomenal, taskers. If

42:28

it's a phenomenal behavior that he was

42:30

not afraid to say that, right? And

42:32

we should learn from it, right? And there's a lot of benefits

42:34

of, behaving in that mindset.

42:37

And I love that you start with that at the core,

42:39

because I think Susanna's point is super important.

42:42

We struggle knowing who we are, and

42:44

nowadays it's so hard for

42:46

us to look at that. Flavio's

42:49

light went out again right after he

42:51

spoke. It's almost like in command. But

42:53

Flavio, don't worry, your inner light continues

42:55

to shine through. Yeah, we can see it.

42:58

You can see it. He's still shining. He's still

43:00

shining through. But this

43:02

core piece is so interesting. And I, I remember

43:04

that, that passage that when Jesus says, I

43:06

am, right? And

43:09

he says, I am the way and so forth. But there's one, he says, I

43:12

am. He knows who he is, right?

43:15

I wish I knew who I am

43:17

to the extent that he know who he was,

43:20

right? He had no hang

43:22

ups about it. And I think that is such an important

43:24

question for us to ask nowadays, when

43:27

we get pulled in so many different ways

43:30

about who we should be

43:32

for others. And

43:35

that's a really great. place

43:37

is authenticity, vulnerability, the

43:40

core piece and not, you know, I just, it's just

43:42

such a, I think I just want to highlight

43:44

and reframe that for our times because I think

43:46

that we are, even with social media, we're trying

43:48

to be so many different things for different people.

43:50

I see so many happy people on

43:52

social media. But that's not

43:54

the world, right? I think that going

43:57

back to who we are, knowing what we are about,

43:59

it's the journey. And,

44:01

yeah, I'm really glad that he, everywhere

44:04

that he did, he led with that.

44:06

He knew who he was and what he was about. He knew what

44:08

his mission and vision was, so to speak. And

44:11

I'm not quite sure that I'm always aligned to my

44:13

mission and vision.

44:14

But by doing that, he did absolutely

44:17

the way for even today, calling

44:20

us. It's like when you're, when

44:22

you hit a gong and that sound

44:24

vibrates out, that's what Jesus

44:26

did for us in terms of his authenticity.

44:29

That sound has reverberated through the

44:31

ages. And, you

44:33

know, he's saying, do that, be

44:35

that, be yourself. The being is

44:38

everything. If you get that right. Everything

44:40

else is gravy. Everything else is good.

44:43

The other thing that he did in communication that

44:45

I wanted to expand on, that Susanna

44:48

talked about was, and communication,

44:51

Flavio, you were talking about

44:53

that too. I think that

44:55

the way he listened, Was

44:57

multi multi multi leveled.

44:59

He listened not only to what the people said,

45:02

what they asked for, like I'm blind for the, you

45:04

know, this, of course, this is what I want. But

45:06

he listens for what the real needs were.

45:09

And when you're a good leader, someone comes

45:11

to you with a problem. And you listen

45:13

at many levels for what

45:15

really are they asking, and what

45:17

really do they need, and what really

45:19

can I give to them. So you're listening

45:22

to the fact that they're anxious, you're listening

45:24

to the fact that they're afraid of the situation, you're listening

45:26

to the fact that they don't feel respected,

45:28

or you're listening to all of those communications

45:31

that are coming through them, and then you

45:33

can respond in the most full

45:36

way.

45:37

I love that because, oftentimes Sharon,

45:39

I tell people, That people

45:42

bring something and they think

45:44

it's a problem, but it's not a problem. It's a situation.

45:46

right? Sometimes they bring you a situation,

45:49

but you have to figure out what the problem is in that situation

45:52

because that situation can be just one manifestation

45:54

of a deeper thing. So I really like

45:56

that approach in general. And I

45:58

think that we can chat about

46:01

this. In many different ways,

46:03

but our time is coming, so

46:05

maybe we should we should begin our

46:08

wrap up

46:10

time flies when you're having fun. I guess,

46:12

right? Hasn't this

46:14

be fun guys? I mean, we've talked a lot about Jesus

46:17

and his leadership style and we could be here talking

46:19

until tomorrow morning. We'll be, it

46:21

will be enough enough topics for us to do that,

46:24

but we have to wrap. So maybe,

46:26

you know, I'll start, we'll start with, Sharon.

46:29

She's our, you're a special, you're a special guest.

46:32

What's one thing that's really

46:34

resonated with you that we talked about

46:36

today. And maybe you could also leave,

46:38

right. Some information if folks wanted to get

46:41

ahold of you. How would they find

46:43

you, right? So they can continue the conversation,

46:45

they can get to know more about you, your works,

46:47

your books, your publications your work and everything

46:49

else.

46:50

Okay, that was four things. Okay, let me

46:52

see if I can get that right. Uh, so, um,

46:56

so I am just so happy to be

46:58

in this wonderful, spiritist

47:00

conversation because it means

47:03

the world to me. It has... Spiritism

47:05

has led me to great new insights.

47:07

It has led me to be a better human being.

47:10

I'm working on it to be a better leader. I'm

47:12

working on it and to enter

47:14

the world in a different way. So spiritism

47:17

has given me so much and it's so great to be

47:19

with you guys on and

47:21

talking about it. And I think, we'll, I think

47:23

we will continue to talk about this because it

47:25

is a full. Topic

47:28

for future times. Um,

47:31

so I, uh, so thank

47:33

you for that. Thank you for inviting me to the party.

47:36

Um, I just love that. And it's

47:39

always a party when I'm meeting up with people like

47:41

you guys. If people want

47:43

to uh, learn about the book, they

47:45

can just go to amazon.

47:48

com and get it in print,

47:50

ebook, or audiobook. It's the

47:52

superpower of balanced leadership

47:54

and unbalanced. times. And

47:56

if you get it, use it to think more

47:59

about the spiritist conversation that

48:01

we had, you know, bring our conversation

48:04

into looking at the book this way and how

48:06

you can claim these powers.

48:09

I have a Dutch colleague who's, who

48:12

told me that when you reclaim

48:14

your powers, these powers, you can

48:17

create a miracle and reclaim

48:19

and miracle. is an anagram.

48:22

So think about that for what you want

48:25

to do. Jesus made all these miracles

48:27

and that have continued through millennia.

48:30

How about you doing that for yourself?

48:33

And if you get the audio

48:35

book as I have, you will

48:37

get to hear Sharon's voice. It's

48:39

like having her in your living

48:41

room or in your car and so forth. So it's a

48:43

wonderful experience too. And there are

48:45

some also some wonderful

48:48

musical or audiophonic. There's

48:51

a lot of cues there, too, that are really nice.

48:53

Um, so thank you for doing that. Thanks for being

48:55

with you,

48:55

Sharon. Dan and I have swapped stories

48:58

about what it is to make our first audiobooks.

49:00

So, we've been

49:03

doing some kvetching on that. But we got

49:05

it done, right?

49:07

Now you got me curious, Sharon. I'm going to have to

49:09

buy the audiobook because I want to hear you,

49:11

you know, tell me the book. I

49:13

love it.

49:14

Exactly. That's fine. I love it. Yeah,

49:17

yeah. Well, we'll see if there's

49:19

another one in my future. But this one was... Um,

49:22

it was a good thing to do, to be able to

49:24

do that. So Dan and I have a lot

49:26

of simpatico on what it is to create

49:28

an audio book. Excellent.

49:31

Sharon, pick who goes

49:33

next.

49:35

What's that? Pick who goes next.

49:37

Get to pick. You want to have the three of us to say, to say.

49:39

Yes, Dan.

49:40

Uh, yeah, I can go on

49:42

this call with all of us talking over each

49:44

other.

49:45

No, no, no, I can go next.

49:47

I, I, I

49:49

am inspired by the conversation today.

49:52

I'm fairly new in the

49:55

leadership realm. I have been

49:58

in my new position for the past

50:00

three years and I'm, um,

50:03

you know, maybe about, uh, 35

50:06

therapists that work for me today

50:09

and I'm always thinking like,

50:11

you know, what, what can I do now? How

50:13

can I learn? How can I grow? What

50:15

else can I study? And

50:19

Just, it's just like crazy just

50:21

occurred to me, man,

50:22

I have to I have Jesus as a

50:24

role model and I, it's

50:26

something that I think I need to study

50:28

a little bit more from this perspective,

50:30

you know? So quite honestly,

50:33

it just. kind of open

50:35

up a whole new realm

50:37

of possibilities. Uh, for

50:39

me, I will definitely

50:42

get the book. I would love to

50:44

read it and you'll probably be hearing

50:46

from you with some comments

50:49

and more exciting conversations

50:52

and just, uh,

50:54

feeling enthusiastic about. You

50:57

know, I, I wrote a lot of things down and I'm like,

50:59

that can be a very good lecture too, you

51:01

know, so my mind is like, you

51:04

know, going like pretty fast right now.

51:07

So I just want to thank you all for

51:09

for having me too here today

51:12

for Dan in particular for pushing

51:15

us and putting everything together.

51:17

Uh, sometimes life is, um.

51:20

These battle of priorities

51:23

and, um, you know, it's, it's,

51:25

it's tough, but I appreciate

51:28

all of you. Thank you so much. It was very,

51:30

very nice. Thank you.

51:35

I'll go next. Yeah. I'll go next and then

51:38

you can wrap us up. Uh, bring us home then. How

51:40

about that? And you have light. So I

51:42

have light again. So yes. So

51:44

to me, to me, uh, I'm a big, a

51:46

big, you know, a big fan of leadership, you know,

51:48

uh, a lot of, do a lot of

51:50

reading about leadership, leadership development.

51:53

Developing leaders. It's a great passion of

51:55

mine, not only for work, but, you know, across

51:57

my, you know, my life and being

51:59

able to connect. All

52:01

these great lessons that we've learned

52:04

from Jesus, if we are

52:06

courageous enough to look

52:08

at his behaviors or his

52:10

life as of a leader, not

52:13

just a religious leader, that

52:15

opens up a huge amount

52:17

of possibilities. For us to learn

52:19

his treats, his leadership treats, in

52:21

a way that it will make us more

52:24

effective leaders, right? So by, by

52:26

all, by no means, I'm a, I'm a great leader,

52:28

right? Uh, but being able to leverage

52:30

his teachings or his, leadership

52:33

traits has helped me in tremendous,

52:35

difficult situations in the past. And I'm

52:38

so happy, right? That I was able to choose

52:40

that path and I invite all of us, right? to

52:44

go on it as well. So, big fan

52:46

of it. I hope you also, got

52:48

inspired to read his,

52:50

life or his teachings in a slightly

52:52

different, paradigm of a

52:54

great leader. And with that, Dan,

52:56

bring us home, please. Wow,

52:59

there's not a lot more to say. For

53:01

me, specifically, I love

53:04

these conversations and I love this particular

53:06

conversation because it's a great

53:08

reminder That Jesus is

53:10

more than that religious figure

53:13

that we have made him to be. He

53:15

is a real life figure that, as

53:18

Susanna mentioned, he is a doctor,

53:21

he is a coach, he

53:23

is a manager leader,

53:26

he is a philosopher, he

53:28

is this well rounded

53:30

model of what we can

53:32

become that is both

53:34

uplifting. and inspiring.

53:36

And so to continue to foster

53:38

these conversations is great for my soul

53:41

because it reminds me that I

53:43

need to take him from that little box

53:45

that we have placed him and bring him

53:47

closer to our everyday life

53:49

and see that his examples are for living.

53:52

They're not just for sunday. They're not just

53:54

for when we are reading the Bible

53:56

or any other book and that there is real

53:58

world connections. There's so many things

54:01

that we can talk about him, the miracles, mindsets,

54:03

and so forth. So that is really great.

54:05

And I love that Sharon has taken

54:08

the time to be with us. Thank you for sharing

54:10

your wisdom with us and all the thinking

54:12

that you have done on this, Sharon. I hope that you with us.

54:21

another party. I would be happy. Yes.

54:24

Oh, great. Thank

54:27

you. Thank you so much. Because I any

54:29

opportunity I can to give back to spiritism

54:32

for what it has given me is of

54:35

such a blessing.

54:37

We're so thrilled to have you. And now

54:39

you know where to find her, you know where

54:41

to find Flavio Zanetti, you

54:43

can find him online as F.

54:45

Zanetti, you can find Susana Simoes

54:48

online as Susana Simoes

54:51

70. And you can find me as

54:53

Dan Assisi because I'm that creative. I

54:55

don't have a cool, handle for online,

54:57

so you just have to use my name. But

54:59

we love to have you here. We just want to remind

55:02

you that there are many other conversations that you

55:04

can listen to or watch on YouTube

55:07

and Facebook. But

55:09

you can also download. Our

55:11

podcast and whatever podcast platform

55:14

you will listen to or

55:16

listen, you listen to the most.

55:18

We're so thrilled to have you here and

55:20

we hope to see you on the next

55:22

Spiritist Conversations. All

55:25

right, everyone. Have a great one.

55:27

Bye bye. Bye. Have

55:29

a great day. Bye bye.