0:00

Hi, I'm Christy Lee, the creator

0:02

of Canadian True Crime. Join

0:04

me for an immersive deep dive into

0:06

some of the most thought-provoking true

0:08

crime cases in Canada. Using facts

0:11

curated from court documents, inquiry

0:13

reports and news archives, I carefully

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unravel and analyze each case,

0:18

exposing the pitfalls of the criminal justice

0:20

system that everyone needs to know about.

0:23

Find Canadian True Crime wherever

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you listen to podcasts or visit canadiantruecrime.ca.

0:31

This is a CBC Podcast.

0:42

Sorry, my dad and I are unavailable right now. Please

0:44

leave a message after the beep and one

0:46

of us will get back to you as soon as possible. Bye

0:49

for now. Hey

0:51

Trevor, it's Dave Ridgen here. Sorry, I

0:53

wasn't able to get back to you right away. They're up in the

0:56

Yukon. It was a pretty hectic and troubling

0:59

case and situation.

1:03

So anyway, I'm on my way out

1:05

for now. I'm still working on it, of course,

1:07

but I'd like to catch up with you guys and

1:10

hope you're well. Talk

1:12

soon. Take care. Bye. Departing

1:14

Yukon and returning a call to Trevor

1:17

Brown, the brother of 15-year-old

1:18

Carrie Brown, who was murdered

1:20

in Thompson, Manitoba in 1986. Carrie's

1:24

case is one I continue to look

1:26

at extensively. All of my

1:29

investigations continue long after the final episode

1:31

of the podcast is published, and the

1:33

relationships I build during those investigations

1:36

remain important to me. Long-term

1:38

grief and trauma is a patient and unpredictable thing,

1:42

so I want to check in to make

1:44

sure that everyone is all right. Trevor

1:46

and all the family members I've

1:48

worked with have provided ongoing support for me, whether

1:52

they knew it or not. Since I met and worked with them,

1:54

I've been able to connect with them

1:57

and help them through their own struggles.

1:59

worked closely with them over many years.

2:03

But Trevor isn't home. He's

2:05

at his new job at a Thompson grocery

2:07

store. So I decided to take the long

2:09

way home and stop in at Good Hope

2:12

Lake, Northern British Columbia, one

2:14

more time to pay my respects

2:17

to Angel and Wendy.

2:19

Stopped

2:21

in the Angel's. Wendy and Angel's

2:24

resting place. Just

2:26

down the street from the Good

2:29

Hope Lake community. Photos

2:33

of the grave and flowers,

2:37

plastic flowers.

2:38

Beautiful setting. Wendy

2:42

has a beautiful carving out there above

2:46

her grave area. Not

2:52

much else to say really. So

2:55

I'll be back. Hope I can make

2:57

a difference here. Hope

3:00

so.

3:03

Leaving Whitehorse was very difficult

3:06

for me, but I think I can make some inroads

3:08

from a distance. And there is still a

3:10

ton to look into. The father

3:13

who allegedly said he did something to Angel,

3:16

Jason Benneke from Pilot Mountain whom

3:18

police said was a person of interest. The

3:20

tip about the suspicious man in the truck,

3:23

the taxi driver and a new

3:26

and compelling tip. Hello?

3:36

Hi, it's Dave Rijan here. Thanks so much

3:38

for your emails. Yeah, you reached

3:40

the right guy. So tell

3:42

me what you know or think you know or have heard

3:44

about Angel's case.

3:45

Oh, I was actually friends with

3:47

her. So I have definitely got

3:50

myself around some

3:52

people that you probably shouldn't be around. One

3:55

of them was an ex-member of the RCMP.

4:01

I'm David Rijan and this is Someone Knows Something

4:03

Season 8, The Angel Carlet Case.

4:07

Episode 7, Take It To

4:09

The Limit.

4:13

Right away I had red flags.

4:16

I didn't want to be around him and I didn't want

4:19

anything but it was a mutual friend's birthday

4:21

so we were out. And

4:24

he had made several comments about

4:26

not being safe to be around and that,

4:28

you know, if anybody knew what he had done,

4:31

he'd just sort of put them away.

4:34

This woman, who I will refer to as Jane,

4:37

reached out to me and, fearing for her safety,

4:40

has agreed to speak on the condition of

4:42

confidentiality.

4:43

Her tip all starts, she says, with

4:45

a now XRCMP officer

4:48

who had one time worked with the White

4:50

Horse Detachment.

4:52

Someone she met in the winter of 2014 or 2015 at a

4:54

local bar one night after being introduced to

4:59

him through mutual friends.

5:02

But in this instance, me and this

5:04

fellow had gotten into an actual

5:06

fight and he

5:08

straight up told me that

5:11

he would put me under the ground like my

5:13

little friend Angel and nobody would

5:16

know what happened to me either.

5:20

Okay, and so the circumstances

5:22

were, how did the fight start, for

5:24

example? Let's start there. I dumped a pitcher

5:27

of beer on his head because he called me a cunt. And

5:31

what bar was it? The Copper King. Okay,

5:34

is that bar still there?

5:35

Yes. He felt like I was

5:37

leaving his cousin on.

5:39

And then

5:40

I poured the pitcher of beer over his head

5:42

and, yeah, he told

5:44

me not to fuck around or he would do

5:48

what he did to my little friend Angel.

5:51

Something like

5:53

that. I can't remember the exact,

5:55

but it was frightening and it was enough for me to not

5:57

have anything to do with him.

5:59

to sober me up.

6:01

Now did he say under the

6:03

ground? Did he say put you under the ground?

6:06

Is that his exact words? I

6:08

mean it was

6:10

I can't say for sure if that was the exact

6:12

terms because I was

6:14

you know quite intoxicated and

6:16

you know this is a long time ago

6:18

now.

6:21

The Copper King Bar is located

6:23

along the Alaska Highway just

6:26

north of downtown Whitehorse. I've

6:28

just heard two quite different versions

6:30

of what was allegedly said. If

6:33

either of the utterances were made to Jane

6:36

both imply at least that this man

6:38

may know something about what happened to Angel.

6:41

Jane tells me what happened next.

6:44

He flipped out and then I just like I immediately

6:47

dodged him as he was sort of swinging at

6:49

me. Apparently he went after the bartender

6:52

too but I had vacated. And

6:54

was there anybody else present

6:56

there?

6:56

There was a lot of people

6:59

there. I'm not sure you know

7:01

who all knew this. I

7:03

have talked to my one friend and

7:05

she swears that this person would never do that. Did

7:08

you recall hearing him say that? No.

7:11

Okay and is there anybody that you've been able to find

7:13

that was there that night for example that remembers

7:15

hearing him utter those words? Yeah.

7:22

Jane tells me that except for her and

7:25

her friend many of the people at the

7:27

Copper King that night were friends

7:29

or family of the XRCMP

7:31

officer.

7:33

And how did he know that you

7:35

knew Angel?

7:36

I talked about her a lot.

7:39

How long did you know Angel and under

7:41

what circumstances?

7:43

Well under not very good

7:45

circumstances we drank together. You

7:48

know I wouldn't go so far as to say like best

7:50

friends

7:51

or you know we were having sleepovers at each

7:53

other's places or anything but you know we were

7:55

definitely friends. All she wanted

7:57

to do was help people.

7:59

How old were you when you knew

8:02

her like you know this like 17 okay,

8:04

and then what year was that?

8:07

2000 I

8:10

would say between 2003 and 2006 I

8:15

Want to get back to that night searching

8:17

for more detail when Jane

8:20

volunteers something surprising

8:22

to the equation and

8:24

Then there was another fellow who arrived

8:26

that night and picked something up

8:29

I have no idea what it was

8:32

Another fellow who picked something

8:34

up from the man who threatened her His

8:38

name was Jason Benneke and

8:41

he is since deceased

8:44

I guess

8:47

Who how did you bring

8:49

in that name? Can you just back up and tell me how

8:51

Jason Benneke fits in?

8:53

He just showed up there he had some

8:55

sort of business to do with the other gentleman

8:58

Jason Benneke was there that night when you poured

9:00

by your own shortly

9:03

Jason Benneke a person

9:05

of interest in Angel's case who lived

9:07

on Pilot Mountain Jane

9:12

has no idea that I have looked at Jason

9:14

Benneke She has no idea

9:16

that he was an RCMP person of interest

9:19

the connectivity could mean absolutely

9:21

nothing

9:22

But it certainly grabbed my attention How

9:26

does his name come into this tip

9:28

about this RCMP guy? They

9:32

both went outside and then

9:34

the other gentleman came back in that I

9:36

don't know what they did But I do

9:38

know that Jason carried some

9:41

pretty serious guilt about something that had happened.

9:43

I happen to know Jason through

9:45

his sister and there was something that

9:48

had happened in 2007 during

9:50

a time when he was known to be

9:52

you know using

9:53

drugs heavily and The gentleman

9:56

had referred to Jason as his worker

10:01

What Jane knows about Jason and

10:03

what she suspects are different things.

10:06

I have no idea if Jane knows anything

10:08

about Jason Benneke, but when

10:10

she says that she knows his family, I

10:12

jump at the chance to make another connection with

10:15

them.

10:16

But she says she's not been in touch with them for a

10:18

long time. I try contacting

10:21

Jason's brother, his sister, and his

10:23

father on the phone, in email,

10:25

and on Facebook. None get

10:28

back to me. I think they must

10:30

have received my extensive messages,

10:32

but I cannot be sure. I

10:35

do not mention Jason and the messages,

10:37

just that I want to talk to people who lived on Pilot

10:40

Mountain at the time of Angel's disappearance. They

10:43

may know nothing. They may not want to

10:45

talk after they lost Jason.

10:47

Nobody can or should guess

10:50

the reasons.

10:52

Okay, so but Jason Benneke is not

10:54

the person you're telling me you poured the beer on. No.

10:57

Okay. The beer is in some way connected

10:59

to that person you're saying.

11:03

Tell me a bit more, if you know anymore,

11:05

about Jason Benneke, like his behavior, anything

11:07

he used to do out at Pilot Mountain there,

11:09

where they lived. He used to do drugs. I never

11:12

actually hung out with him when he was living

11:14

out at Pilot Mountain. I do know

11:16

that that's where the family lived

11:19

and where all the kids grew up.

11:21

Okay, and how do you know he used to

11:23

do drugs?

11:24

Because I used to do drugs. With him?

11:27

I have done drugs with him. I've bought

11:29

drugs off of him. I

11:32

mean, the list goes on to how I know he does

11:34

that. So forget that.

11:37

Using drugs or selling them doesn't

11:39

mean the person doing it had anything

11:41

to do with killing someone, let alone

11:44

Angel. I include the details

11:46

here because they are intertwined with the story

11:48

I'm being told about this former RCMP

11:51

officer. I'll have to ask Corporal

11:53

Simpson about him. Maybe

11:55

they've already ruled him out. I

11:58

asked Jane if she ever talked to him. to RCMP

12:00

about her experience.

12:03

Are you sure?

12:04

I tried to come forward with the RCMP and when I

12:06

went through with the, like started to

12:08

talk to them and I gave the name of the person,

12:11

he stopped me immediately, asked

12:13

me if I was sure I wanted to

12:15

proceed with the statement and with

12:18

the information and that they couldn't guarantee

12:20

my

12:20

safety and I stopped right there.

12:23

And then after that you said,

12:26

see you later.

12:30

So tell me who this person is that you dumped

12:32

the beer on. And

12:37

she tells me,

12:38

I'm keeping his name anonymous for now and

12:41

shall refer to him as M. Currently

12:43

mid-50s, born in the Yukon and

12:46

lived there for most of his life, he became

12:48

an officer with the Whitehorse RCMP in

12:50

the late 80s. Over a 15

12:52

year span, M established a

12:54

pattern of violence and misconduct resulting

12:57

in internal RCMP investigations

13:00

with unknown results. From

13:02

what I can tell, he worked for some

13:04

time in Alberta but then left

13:06

law enforcement on his own. His

13:09

charges include dangerous driving, assault,

13:11

harassment, uttering threats, mischief

13:14

and one for weapons. By 2007,

13:16

he was back in Whitehorse where

13:20

he was in and out of jail or on probation.

13:23

But in the week surrounding Angel's disappearance,

13:25

he was not incarcerated.

13:28

M was harassing a woman at the time that

13:30

had had a restraining order placed on him. A

13:34

couple of days before Angel disappeared,

13:36

outside of the Casa Loma motel bar

13:39

about 20 kilometers south of Pilot

13:41

Mountain, M beat a man so

13:43

badly that the victim was unable to

13:45

dial 911 on his phone and

13:48

spent a week in hospital unable

13:50

to walk. Documents around

13:52

this May 2007 assault say, M

13:55

was trying to find cocaine that night.

13:58

In November, 2007.

15:48

because

16:00

there are quite a few members that were kind

16:03

of noted on this file for the months.

16:06

But I guess it's not

16:08

a name I know and not a name on the file.

16:12

Simpson says there's no mention of M

16:14

in Angel's file. No record

16:17

of the tip. I need

16:19

to find M. M.

16:27

M.

17:18

M.

17:44

M.

17:59

You have reached is not in service.

18:02

Please check the number and try your call again

18:05

That number also out of service Let's

18:09

try again The

18:12

number you have reached is not in service.

18:14

Come on

18:20

After many different attempts I can't

18:22

get ahold of them to verify what

18:24

if anything was said that night at

18:26

the Copper Cane

18:30

Hello

18:32

But there is someone who I am able

18:34

to catch up with Someone

18:36

I've been very interested in talking

18:38

to

18:39

Hang on. I'm just holding my vehicle

18:42

over. Okay

18:45

Okay, hi there who

18:47

am I talking at

18:49

I've been told that the man I've just reached

18:51

had said something in Calpatori or self

18:54

incriminating about Angel I

18:56

heard it from two people

18:58

Amber

18:59

and Wesley

19:01

Like all I can remember was they said don't

19:03

make me do to you what I did to

19:05

angel Carla

19:08

So I finally found this man and

19:10

he has pulled over at the side of a highway to

19:12

talk to me I tell him who

19:14

I am and that I'm calling about

19:17

angels case I'm

19:19

not very good way with words Yeah,

19:22

it's definitely a case that needs to be solved and

19:25

I had a tip come in that said that

19:27

they had heard your son Telling

19:30

a story one night about something

19:32

that you had said to him in an argument

19:35

And I just want to know if you remember this argument

19:38

Just so I can verify this you said

19:40

something like don't make me do to you what I did

19:42

to angel Carla or something like That

19:45

so basically saying you had done something

19:47

to angel. Do you remember that conversation?

19:51

No, I don't Did

19:53

you mention angel to him? This is

19:56

the thing. No Had

19:58

you ever met angel before?

20:00

No, I hadn't, but I was working

20:02

down at Watson

20:04

Lake that summer. I'm a road builder

20:08

and we

20:10

were home in the morning the choppers were

20:12

flying out because my wife and I

20:15

were flying out on holiday, my

20:17

ex-wife.

20:18

Okay.

20:19

And

20:20

so

20:22

when they came to interview the neighbors,

20:25

my son and his friends were there and

20:28

they just asked if I would call it

20:30

in when it got back.

20:32

Okay. So I did

20:34

and answered all the questions

20:37

that I could and

20:38

then I moved down to Alberta

20:41

in 2010. Alright, so you divorced

20:45

or left your wife I guess and then went

20:47

to Alberta?

20:49

Basically.

20:52

Recall this tip originated from this man's

20:54

son.

20:55

Based on people I've spoken to the father-son

20:58

dynamic isn't great.

21:01

What's your relationship like with your son right now?

21:04

I haven't talked to him for two years.

21:08

Okay. And I'm not allowed to talk to my

21:10

wife or daughter for another

21:13

two three years. So

21:16

you can tell me you didn't do anything to Angel then yourself?

21:18

I know the girl. I

21:22

think I met her dad in Watson

21:25

light but no

21:27

I had nothing to do with that. Why

21:30

do you think he would have come up with that? Why

21:32

would he have told his friend that story do you think? To

21:36

say his dad said that about Angel Carla.

21:39

I have no idea. He

21:44

denies doing anything to Angel.

21:46

He denies making any statement to his son

21:48

to that effect.

21:50

His son is near impossible

21:52

to find unhoused and unstable.

21:56

Where to go with a tip like this?

22:02

So just so you know, because I know that you were extremely

22:05

upset about that interview, I

22:07

just wanted you to know that he had denied it. Yeah.

22:12

I let Lori know I spoke to the man involved

22:14

in Amber's TIF, and she knows the other

22:17

people I'm still trying to contact to ask

22:19

questions. The former RCMP

22:22

officer, the taxi driver who

22:24

may have lived in Pilot Mountain, the

22:26

fellow who a tipster says she saw in

22:28

a red truck out on Pilot Mountain,

22:30

who she says used the proposition Indigenous

22:33

women. All are proving difficult

22:35

to locate, and if anybody can help,

22:38

please let me know. But

22:40

I will keep trying.

22:43

So rest assured that the investigation

22:46

is continuing. This is the point where I'm

22:48

making all these calls and trying to get people

22:50

to talk to me. So I mean, part

22:52

of the benefit of being up there with you was that

22:54

everybody wanted to talk to me because you were there,

22:57

and I wouldn't have been able to do anything without you there.

23:01

So you know that, right? So

23:03

yeah. Yeah. Who's

23:06

going to talk to me? You

23:09

know, just in a short period of time, like,

23:11

you know, I would have to stay up there for months

23:14

to get people to talk to me. And you know,

23:16

I think just being you really

23:19

helped make that happen. So

23:21

the podcast basically is going to be dedicated

23:23

to you and to Alex, because I wouldn't have

23:26

been able to do any of it. And it was really upsetting,

23:28

and I was glad you were there with me

23:30

because it was a tough thing

23:32

to share. It was.

23:37

It's just,

23:39

you know, like over a year's

23:41

time, your brain

23:43

really, your mind wanders. Yeah.

23:48

Like, personally, it's been

23:51

a bit of a healing journey. Like

23:53

I can talk about Angel without bursting

23:56

into tears and.

23:59

There's people knowing that there

24:02

are

24:03

people still looking for her. It's

24:06

also, because it's not just me, there's been

24:08

friends that have come up to me and said, I've always

24:10

wondered what happened.

24:12

And I'm like, oh, it's still unsolved,

24:15

but if

24:15

we keep it out there, you know, it

24:18

can be solved.

24:19

I full heartedly believe that.

24:26

Having cases for me takes many

24:28

months, even years. Through

24:31

that time, I stay in touch with the family members

24:33

and friends I've worked with to see if

24:35

anything has changed in the aftermath of the initial

24:37

work, but also if anything has changed

24:40

for them. Since my trip

24:42

to Whitehorse, I stayed in contact with

24:44

both Alex and Lori. Alex

24:47

is doing very well at work back in Good

24:49

Hope Lake. Lori has, like

24:51

Alex, been feeling the brunt of Angel's disappearance

24:54

for years. And Lori, being

24:56

in Whitehorse, has also tirelessly

24:59

worked to help me with any request I have.

25:05

And then with working on the case

25:07

again, it made me realize

25:09

what a healing journey I've already done from

25:12

the time that she went missing

25:15

to when she was found to

25:17

a few years later, and

25:20

going through all those motions to

25:22

where I am now, and kind of seeing

25:25

that how Angel

25:28

molded me

25:30

not just from when she was alive and here,

25:33

but as a First Nations woman going through this,

25:36

you know, and noticing that I'm

25:39

not the only one that has

25:41

unanswered

25:42

questions. Angel

25:44

also makes me feel a lot closer to her.

25:47

Just, you know,

25:48

there's parts of her I didn't know, and

25:50

now I know them, and it brings more

25:55

of her to a full picture,

25:57

not just what I thought of her or saw

25:59

her.

25:59

It was

26:01

how her friends saw her and her acquaintances,

26:05

her co-workers. It

26:07

brings her back to life a little. Calm,

26:11

quiet. She

26:14

always had a hug and a smile.

26:18

Always. She's

26:20

lost me, girl. And we lost

26:23

a great contributor to society.

26:27

I think about her every day of my life.

26:32

I always, always had

26:34

to go lucky, that was your nickname. I

26:37

had to go

26:38

lucky. You

26:46

know,

26:47

one of the things that we do with the dead

26:49

is that we paint them up

26:51

to this great grand picture. And

26:54

we kind of smudge over their rough

26:57

edges. And we create

26:59

something quite wonderful and beautiful.

27:02

And there are parts that I ultimately

27:05

edited out. And then it brings

27:07

her back into a full rounded

27:09

picture and helps me with my healing

27:11

journey, not making up

27:14

events or situations in my head that

27:17

are like, well, you know, she did party. And

27:19

she did have a wild side, but she was still

27:21

a beautiful person. That

27:24

is healing that I, you know, you see

27:26

a whole rounded young

27:29

girl. And a lot of her friends

27:32

at this age, like she just had her 35th birthday.

27:35

And a lot of her friends have

27:37

children or just having children or engaged. And

27:40

it makes me wonder, like, would she have smoothened

27:43

those rough edges? Would she be a mother?

27:52

What would Angel's life have been

27:55

like had she not disappeared in the summer of 2007?

27:58

Here's what we know about her.

27:59

her case so far.

28:02

Angel Karlek was discovered in a grave

28:05

four to six feet deep on Pilot

28:07

Mountain Yukon just as the snow

28:09

began to fall in November 2007.

28:12

Forensic evidence to date has provided no

28:15

useful leads. Angel

28:17

was brought here by a person or possibly

28:20

multiple people who had likely

28:22

been here before and never ever

28:25

thought she would be found. Her

28:27

mother Wendy was Angel's voice along

28:29

with Alex, her brother, and then Wendy

28:32

was murdered and it's just Alex now

28:34

looking for answers.

28:36

But Lori and a community of family

28:39

and friends of Angel are there with him.

28:41

It's been a privilege to be addressed here

28:44

by the community with a respect we

28:46

all must return because

28:48

the real justice is in the listening,

28:51

the making of space for storytelling

28:53

and for learning about our mistakes and

28:56

our transgressions. Real

28:58

justice is about our support of each other,

29:01

a far greater power than any

29:04

and for it not to go to waste. The

29:06

work here is not done.

29:12

This is the final planned episode in the case

29:14

of Angel Karlek, but the investigation

29:17

continues.

29:18

If you have any information regarding her

29:20

murder, the time to come forward

29:23

is now.

29:27

I'm praying to the ancestors all

29:30

the time to help Ethan and myself

29:33

and obviously the rest of Angel's friends

29:35

and family and I just think that

29:38

paying attention to the other cases around

29:41

Canada, you get a feeling

29:43

that you're not alone in it. It's

29:45

very hard and everything is individualized

29:49

but it's also whole at the same time.

29:54

I went to Ottawa and

29:57

we did a gathering and We

30:00

just talk about our daughters

30:02

and sons and show

30:05

them pictures and tell

30:07

them stories and how government

30:10

should work together and figure

30:13

out how to make a stronger

30:15

situation so government

30:18

can push more and then things

30:21

will happen because you

30:23

know everybody's involved when

30:26

they investigate a missing and

30:28

murdered person. There's a

30:30

lot of people involved. Why

30:33

it's not happening? I don't know. Why

30:36

is it taking so long? I

30:39

really do not know.

31:05

Someone Knows Something is hosted, written,

31:07

and produced by me, David Rijan.

31:10

The series is also produced by Hadeel Abdul-Nabi

31:13

and Zeynah Salam. Sound design

31:15

by Evan Kelly. Natalia Ferguson

31:18

is our transcriber. Emily Kanell

31:20

is our digital producer. Our

31:22

podcast art was designed by Ellie Coda.

31:25

Our cross promo producer is Amanda Cox.

31:28

Our video producer is Evan Agard.

31:31

Special thanks to Phalen Johnson. Executive

31:34

producers are Cecil Fernandez and Chris

31:36

Oak. Tanya Springer is

31:38

our senior manager. Aarif

31:40

Noorani is the director and Leslie

31:42

Merklinger is the executive director

31:45

of CBC Podcasts. If

31:47

you want to help new listeners discover the show,

31:49

please rate and review wherever you listen.

31:52

Find us on Facebook by searching Someone

31:54

Knows Something or on Instagram at

31:56

CBC Podcasts. You can also

31:59

stream some... someone knows something on YouTube.

32:01

Just search for CBC Podcasts.

32:04

If you're looking for more investigations, check out the

32:06

past seasons of Someone Knows Something, from

32:09

a mysterious bomb hidden in a flashlight

32:12

to two teenagers killed by the KKK.

32:15

Find Someone Knows Something on the CBC Listen

32:18

app or wherever you get your podcasts.

32:35

For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.