2:00

So, Chris, when police were interviewing

2:02

you, did you get the idea that they thought you might have been

2:04

a suspect in the thing? Yeah. Yeah.

2:08

Because I think... I've been out polygraphs so many times. Yeah. Did

2:11

you feel that people treated you different? They're

2:15

all skeptical about me.

2:17

I know I was a bit abrasive,

2:19

but I'm always a bit abrasive. I

2:22

hope you know what it is. You know, just smile on the wall. Yeah.

2:25

I'm gonna have a step. I'm gonna have a step. I'm gonna

2:27

have a step. I'm gonna have a step. It

2:30

was very good though. Rough times. Do

2:33

you think I could go out of town,

2:35

like out of city limits? I

2:41

don't know. Like

2:47

to party or hang out? No. Pilot

2:49

Mountain, for sure, now.

2:51

Yeah. Are

2:54

there times that you think about our more? I

2:58

think about every game. I'm

3:07

David Rijan, and this is Someone Knows Something,

3:09

Season 8, The Angel Carla

3:11

Case, Episode 3, the

3:14

saddest song in the world. Hey,

3:18

Mike. It's

3:25

going well. Nice to meet you.

3:27

Good to see you face to face. I've

3:29

met with RCMP Corporal Mike Simpson outside of the RCMP HQ in downtown

3:31

Whitehorse.

3:34

I've

3:36

been talking on the phone this season since

3:38

around late 2020 about the murder of Angel

3:42

Carla. Maybe hearing details of the police

3:45

investigation into her case will

3:47

help me answer some of my questions.

3:49

I thought you were gonna be a little younger myself. Oh,

3:52

well. In his 50s, fit and clean shaven with short,

3:55

dreamy, and

5:50

I

6:00

think a barbecue up in the Kwandong

6:03

First Nations. So

6:05

from there she leaves, actually it was May 26th, and

6:08

then she leaves there going in, headed

6:10

downtown,

6:11

and she sees numerous

6:13

people along, I

6:16

think Main Street on May 26th.

6:20

I'm hoping to find people in the community who might

6:22

remember these parties or barbecues.

6:25

What time of day was that? It was kind of in the

6:27

evening. Okay.

6:29

According to RCMP, Alex told

6:31

them at the time that he remembered seeing Angel

6:34

at the 420 Park, sometime between

6:37

6pm and 7pm.

6:38

This aligns with what I have heard from Alex.

6:42

And Chris Dawson's statement to the police

6:44

at the time says he last saw Angel at

6:46

the 420 Park around 7pm

6:48

on May 26th. One

6:51

fragment of information that hasn't gone

6:53

anywhere yet but that I will put out there in

6:55

hopes it might, police suggest

6:57

that Angel may have had a camera with her on

6:59

the day she disappeared. A camera

7:01

that Alex, when I asked him, says

7:04

he doesn't remember anything about and

7:06

one police have never seen.

7:11

Last sighting, sort

7:13

of late her evening,

7:16

not super late, I don't think it went into the 27th or

7:18

anything like that. Of course, daylight, it's

7:21

extended up here. So, and she's

7:23

kind of last seen with two unknown

7:26

whiter, I'm just,

7:29

what was quoted, whiter looking younger

7:31

males.

7:34

Angel was allegedly seen sometime

7:36

around 9pm on May 26th, 2007, walking

7:38

away from Main Street near

7:41

a place known locally as the Pyramids

7:44

with these two whiter looking males. The

7:47

Pyramids are actually part of a newer office building,

7:49

just a block from LePage Park. The 420

7:52

Park, LePage Park and the Pyramids

7:55

are all a short walk from each other. Probably

7:58

the whole circuit could be done. 15 minutes,

8:01

and it appears that Angel was circulating in

8:03

this area when she disappeared. I

8:06

make it known to Corporal Simpson that I would like to speak

8:08

to the eyewitness who provided this information

8:11

about the two men as it may be crucial.

8:14

Simpson says he will ask the witness, and

8:17

adds that police were never able to determine

8:19

if this encounter occurred just before

8:22

Angel disappeared.

8:25

And then for

8:27

me, after May 26, kind

8:30

of any sightings of her really tried to drop off.

8:32

Beyond that, I can't find any sort

8:36

of verified sightings after that time. So

8:38

for me, May 26 seems to be

8:41

sort of last known sighting of

8:44

Angel. And then about

8:47

a week later, she was reported

8:49

missing

8:50

because her mother was also worried. And

8:53

they began a missing person investigation

8:56

at that time.

8:59

Simpson says that Angel was first reported

9:01

missing to police on May 31, but that another police

9:05

officer had claimed to have seen her the day

9:07

before that on the 30th, so the

9:09

investigation seems to have concluded there

9:12

and then. The timing and the

9:14

content of this alleged sighting of Angel

9:16

on May 30 is unclear. I

9:18

don't know if this police officer saw Angel

9:21

or why he claims to have done so at that

9:23

timing. But this alleged sighting

9:26

affected the start of the investigation at

9:28

a crucial time. Days

9:30

pass. Then on June 5, Angel

9:33

is again reported missing, and Simpson

9:35

says the investigation reopens. Police

9:38

also received multiple tips of sightings

9:40

of Angel in Western Canada, which Simpson

9:42

says were followed up. And he says

9:44

that on June 11, the investigation continued

9:47

with a major case management approach.

9:52

and

10:00

being in relationships with her family

10:02

members, which is kind

10:04

of the process of how you do these things. And

10:07

then they worked out where it's continued

10:09

to be. With

10:12

this investigation, just my perception

10:14

and continued to be my sort of limitations

10:17

is that just missing what I call

10:19

those pieces of evidence that kind

10:21

of are your markers, kind of point you,

10:24

really strongly start leading you beyond

10:27

people of interest, more into suspects.

10:31

What about Colin Serenko's case?

10:34

Because I've heard that there's a connection Angel

10:36

allegedly saw. Colin

10:39

getting beaten was one of the rumors. And therefore,

10:42

something, and then that was a week before the

10:44

timing of Colin's beating to death at

10:47

the riverside, right, that's where he was killed.

10:50

Colin Serenko was brutally murdered

10:52

along the bank of the Yukon River on

10:54

May 24th, 2007, within

10:57

days before Angel was last seen. Alex

11:00

says that he was approached by someone who

11:02

told him that Angel had witnessed

11:05

the deadly beating, suggesting that

11:07

that's why she went missing. What

11:10

have you found about Colin Serenko?

11:12

I'm aware of those rumors and continue

11:15

to hear them. There is nothing both

11:18

investigators in the past and myself

11:20

to suggest there's any

11:23

connection there. And I believe they did

11:25

have someone of strong interest in that matter,

11:27

just not to speak for the

11:30

investigators there, but they just didn't ever able to

11:32

lay a charge there. But there was

11:34

no connection of Angel Carla to that case that

11:36

we see at this time and in the past.

11:39

But yet the Serenko case is still unprosecuted

11:43

or unsolved. Unprosecuted, yes. Unprosecuted, yes.

11:46

And yes, I think it

11:49

may remain that way for various reasons.

11:53

Not much has been revealed by police

11:56

to anyone, including family members over

11:58

the years, about where and how. how

12:00

Angel's remains were found. Any

12:02

revelations here, I believe, could

12:05

be potentially crucial in helping

12:07

to find who killed her. I

12:09

asked Corporal Simpson to start from the beginning of

12:12

what happened on November 9, 2007, the

12:15

day Angel was found, just

12:18

over four months after she disappeared

12:20

from downtown Whitehorse.

12:24

There was an individual, he

12:26

was walking his dog, a community member, and it's

12:28

a suburb, I guess, that's what I was saying,

12:31

of the Pilot Mountain subdivision, which

12:33

is about 20 minutes out of town.

12:35

And the dog didn't come back to him, and

12:38

when he called him, he kind of

12:40

noticed the dog was interested

12:43

in something, and then when

12:45

he went to have a closer look, he realized

12:47

he should call police, and then

12:50

police attended RCMP, and

12:54

once in short, the remains later

12:56

verified to be of Angel

12:59

Carwood.

13:03

It was a lot found, unfortunately,

13:06

and then that turned into a homicide investigation,

13:09

or a suspicion death investigation, which continues

13:11

to this day, so that's really essentially sort

13:14

of the crux of it.

13:18

Is this the actual classification homicide, or suspicious

13:20

death? Yeah, that's a good question. I'd say more homicide.

13:24

We don't know the cons of death, but certainly something

13:27

that demands further attention, right? It's

13:30

just we don't have those pieces of information

13:33

about

13:34

what happened and how she died.

13:36

I would tend to suspect that however

13:39

she passed away occurred elsewhere,

13:42

from where her remains were found.

13:47

I'd like to see the location where Angel

13:49

was found as soon as possible. Was

13:51

she concealed, and how, and

13:54

was any relevant DNA found? Police

13:57

calling Angel's case both one of suspicious.

14:00

his death and homicide seems

14:02

an equivocation that means the same thing.

14:05

But the details matter. The

14:07

facts matter. Is that Pile of Mountain right there? Uh,

14:09

yeah. I, yes, I would say it is. Feels definitely

14:12

apart from White Earth.

14:16

Police have never shown anyone where Angel

14:19

was found before,

14:22

but Corporal Simpson agrees

14:31

to

14:37

take me out to Pile of Mountain. There's

14:40

more houses here now than back

14:41

then, but a lot of it remains.

14:45

Yeah, it's pretty much the same.

14:47

The northern sun hitting

14:49

my face makes me wonder about the

14:51

light that would have been available at the end of May

14:54

when Angel disappeared. Would

14:56

it have ever gotten dark? Yeah,

15:01

it's quite close to summer or something.

15:06

There is a little bit of darkness, but uh, nothing

15:13

sort of goes. So

15:16

you're saying that the daylight at the time, sort of,

15:20

that the darkest point would be dark

15:22

for maximum two hours, would we say?

15:26

Seems a very short window indeed for

15:29

any undertaking involving concealing

15:31

a body in the open without being seen,

15:34

but then I don't yet know the layout

15:36

of where we're going. We

15:39

turn off the main highway about 25 minutes

15:42

out of downtown Whitehorse and then

15:44

a short time later onto Springer Road,

15:46

which forms the backbone of the Pile of Mountain subdivision.

15:48

Here

15:49

we go, Pile of Mountain subdivision.

15:55

Along this road I can see

15:57

some driveway entrances to homes that

15:59

nestle under the water. unseen on larger acreages

16:02

and crossing the road ahead some power

16:04

lines. Corporal Simpson

16:06

soon pulls off and stops on a patch

16:09

of sand underneath.

16:14

So we are going to hike up there.

16:21

On either side of us, gigantic

16:23

wooden towers loom and march off

16:25

in the distance for many kilometers

16:28

along a 30 meter wide swaths that's

16:30

been cut through thick spruce and pine.

16:33

The cut and these electrical towers were

16:36

made about 35 years ago to service

16:38

the area and other remote communities further

16:40

up and down the Alaska and Klondike highways.

16:44

Recent rains have soaked the rough access

16:46

path that runs underneath it all.

16:49

So it's going to be a bit muddy here.

16:51

We're going to go up about a kilometer and

16:54

we're going to go into the woods for a little bit.

16:59

We start walking past colorful

17:01

stands of fireweed along the path and

17:04

delicate blooms of Calypso fairy slipper

17:06

orchids in the cleared spaces around the

17:08

towers. The vibrance of bees

17:11

and dragonflies and butterflies everywhere.

17:14

An infusion of pine and reindeer moss

17:16

in the air. But how

17:19

did Angel come to be here?

17:24

And was this house here, do you

17:26

know? That one? I think it

17:28

was, yes.

17:30

There's just a few houses and even

17:33

fewer are visible through the trees on either

17:35

side of us. At the time of Angel's

17:37

disappearance in 2007, it's

17:39

estimated there were about 50 single family

17:42

homes in the subdivision. Not a lot

17:44

of physical change despite the few

17:46

new places that have been built here since then.

17:49

There's some interesting orchids up

17:51

in this area. I

17:54

just try to think of all the kinds of people that would have been

17:56

here 10 years before. What were they

17:58

here for?

17:59

people taking pictures, maybe hikers,

18:02

people putting this line in gathering

18:04

wood.

18:07

I noticed that the few properties I can

18:09

see seem to have winding backyard

18:11

trails through the trees that lead

18:14

out to this cut, all posted

18:16

with no trespassing signs. Some

18:19

of these dwellings were here in 2007 and

18:22

I remember seeing a couple of these roofs in

18:24

an aerial police photo taken on November 10,

18:26

2007, the day after Angel was found. In

18:31

that photo I can also see a dusting

18:33

of snow on the ground and police and

18:35

forensic vehicles parked in a neat row

18:38

under the power lines, everything

18:40

else obscured by the trees.

18:45

And you guys canvassed all these houses?

18:47

We did, yeah. And nobody saw

18:50

anything? Um, nothing

18:52

really, there was a few sort of things.

18:56

I don't know if people saw a truck.

19:01

A tan colored 1970 or 1980

19:04

Chevrolet truck was seen on the

19:06

access road near the location of Angel's

19:08

remains in the weeks after Angel

19:10

disappeared, but before

19:12

her remains were found. Simpson

19:15

tells me the witness thought they saw three people

19:17

inside and at least one of them was

19:19

indigenous. He also tells

19:21

me that they stuck in the witness's mind

19:24

as they felt intimidated looking at them. Beyond

19:27

that, the tip betrayed no other information

19:30

and nailing down a specific date

19:32

of this sighting between the time Angel

19:34

disappeared and six months later when

19:36

she was found is difficult.

19:41

Well, I might try to knock on a couple of these

19:43

doors and see what people say. Yeah,

19:50

like I said, it's pretty muddy here. How

19:56

many times have you been up here?

19:59

That's it. You

20:04

find something new each time or think of different things

20:06

each time? Are you surprised

20:09

about anything? Um...

20:11

Yeah, it kind of brings... That's a

20:13

good question. Yeah, it brings things in there. Can

20:16

you kind of focus?

20:21

Did you map out after

20:24

the discovery of Angels Remains, was it ever

20:27

mapped out if anybody suddenly left Pilot

20:29

Mountain? Uh, yeah,

20:32

some follow-up. Um, people do

20:34

move around here. But,

20:37

um... I don't know if they specifically

20:40

tracked everyone. I know,

20:43

there was movement here. Even

20:45

the individual that called

20:47

us, the Dog Walker, he's

20:50

of course since moved. So we are here.

21:48

Yeah,

21:52

you step up over here. Yeah?

21:55

And that's cutting out.

21:59

cut long enough ago that lichens

22:02

have begun to grow on the flat parts. Interestingly,

22:05

there are no new cuts, so

22:07

at some point the wood cutting stopped

22:10

here.

22:15

Did you look into the wood gathering theory

22:17

or angle? Did you look at who used to be up here

22:19

wood gathering? I mean they did at the time.

22:23

I know, I'm speaking

22:25

of one of the previous investigators. They did look

22:27

at the angle, but

22:31

again I think no

22:34

specific names were kind of mentioned.

22:39

Simpson beckons as he turns off into the

22:41

woods off trail, and

22:43

I carefully follow for a short while.

22:47

Then he stops again. Yeah,

22:51

so this is the area. That

22:58

area right there.

23:02

The hair on my neck stands up as

23:04

Angel's presence moves around me. She

23:07

was here. This is

23:09

where Angel was brought. She

23:12

could not have come here on her

23:14

own.

23:31

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23:34

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23:36

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23:38

follows a global team of police and

23:40

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23:43

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23:57

podcasts.

24:03

Corporal Simpson and I are standing in another

24:06

area with a few of the cut stumps, same

24:08

vintage lichen. Simpson

24:11

has gestured to a pile of logs over a depression

24:13

in the ground, the remains of a

24:15

deep hole. The logs

24:17

were placed by police, Simpson says, to

24:20

keep people from falling in. This

24:23

was no shallow grave.

24:29

So how deep was the

24:31

hole estimated to have been dug? I

24:33

think four feet to six

24:35

feet, if I recall. It

24:38

was what I would define a grave.

24:42

Any sort of positioning you

24:44

could get? Was she positioned in any way that

24:46

you could discern? I

24:48

know it

24:50

wasn't the case where you had four

24:53

remains, you could kind of tell,

24:56

but like I said, numerous things were located

24:58

around this area.

25:01

Articles of clothing and things? Some articles of clothing,

25:05

some other items, remains

25:08

of Angel were located

25:11

around this area. Was

25:16

there identification found here? Wallet,

25:18

money? Oh, no.

25:22

The hiker's dog had found Angel after

25:24

she had been dug out of this hole, likely

25:27

by a larger mammal such as wolves or

25:29

a bear. The few remains

25:32

of Angel were found scattered in the hole

25:34

and throughout the area. Simpson

25:37

says what was found showed forensic

25:39

evidence of marks made by whatever

25:41

dug her out of the ground, but no evidence

25:44

of how Angel died. How

25:46

long would it have taken someone to dig this grave

25:49

unnoticed? I think it must have

25:51

taken a while.

25:54

did

26:00

this didn't expect she would ever be found again. That

26:03

is my belief as well. Speaking

26:08

as an investigator, I don't disrespect,

26:12

but it always struck me as this sort of a good

26:16

place, like it's kind of open here, yet

26:19

there's trees around you, right? This

26:21

cover, you're not very far,

26:24

of course, from the

26:26

path that we just walked up. So

26:29

digging to four to six feet in this

26:31

soil, what's the minimum

26:34

amount of time you think it would take to, if one

26:36

person was digging this hole? Yeah,

26:38

it's hard to say, but definitely not

26:40

minutes. It'll probably be two hours,

26:43

if not more. Again,

26:46

try to put yourself sort of in

26:48

their shoes. One of the things that would slow me

26:50

down is I would probably be watching,

26:53

so that might slow me down, I don't know. Just

26:55

seeing if there was

26:57

anyone around, which we haven't seen anyone

27:00

here, but it would take some time.

27:02

Yeah, I think

27:04

anyone who's dug a hole would probably appreciate

27:06

it.

27:08

It takes some effort. What

27:11

would possibly in that situation have adrenaline flowing,

27:13

I would imagine?

27:15

Yeah, I think so.

27:19

In this moment, it strikes me that Corporal

27:21

Simpson and I are talking about the same thing

27:23

without saying it. We're

27:25

talking about more than one person being involved.

27:29

The effort to get in here, the effort

27:31

in the digging, the being careful.

27:34

So you think guys, you think

27:37

men, more than

27:39

what? Yes, men and more than one. And

27:42

when there's two, you know, the story goes,

27:45

the silence is harder to keep. Is

27:48

your inkling that the people are still alive or

27:51

persons?

27:53

I do think yes, at least

27:55

some.

27:57

Bringing Angel to this location tells

28:00

us much about the perpetrator or perpetrators.

28:03

She was brought here for a reason, not

28:06

to the Yukon River that runs through Whitehorse,

28:08

not to a roadside or the woods just outside

28:11

of Whitehorse, but here.

28:15

I ask Simpson what the location

28:17

might tell him about the profile of the person

28:20

or people who did this to Angel. I

28:24

think it's someone who was able to slow things

28:26

down and kind of think about what

28:29

happened and what they needed to do to sort

28:32

of get out of that situation. You know,

28:36

you said it, I think earlier, we're walking up,

28:38

I think, in a lot of cases, we just

28:40

kind of leave the deceased and

28:42

run, in which we've had many cases

28:44

that I worked on, like

28:47

that. But this, you know, requires

28:49

some planning, some

28:52

preparation, you know, where to go and then

28:54

how to get there, how to conceal

28:57

the deceased so they're not seen to

29:00

get them here. Obviously, there's no

29:02

specific path that leads, you know, a road

29:04

that leads right here. It's not far away, but so

29:07

they had some ability

29:10

to really kind of think about what

29:12

they wanted to do and how they wanted to do

29:14

it, right? This strikes

29:17

me as someone who's able to slow things down despite,

29:20

I would imagine, you know, kind of being in

29:22

a stressful situation. But

29:25

this is unusual, you know,

29:27

in the sense that she was placed

29:29

here. That is not as

29:31

common as you think. Is this specific spot?

29:34

You're thinking about why here.

29:38

Well the estimation must be that they've

29:40

been here before. And you don't randomly

29:42

find this spot, I don't think. I

29:45

think the percentages are pretty high on

29:47

that assumption.

29:52

Simpson

30:00

to begin our walk back to the car. On

30:03

the way out, I suggest to Simpson the notion of

30:05

a reward fund that Kwanlandun Chief

30:07

Doris Bill mentioned, and he felt that

30:09

while RCMP do not normally work with

30:11

rewards, that in this case it

30:13

could be worthwhile. And I also

30:16

suggest that Simpson use a cadaver dog that

30:18

he is bringing up to the Yukon for another case

30:21

to search through these woods as well. And

30:23

he said he would. Any

30:26

additional remains or clothing that could be

30:28

found could offer important clues

30:30

such as hair or fiber information or

30:33

even towards manner of death.

30:36

As we near the car, I try

30:38

to encapsulate something about my suspicions

30:40

and I think his regarding

30:42

the perpetrator or perpetrators. So

30:46

you, we talked about this, I just want to verify.

30:48

Like I'm going to be pointing at the

30:50

pilot mountain area and saying

30:53

high percentage chance the person is around here

30:55

somewhere. Do you think that's an accurate statement

30:57

to make? Yes, they

31:00

had been at one point. They had

31:02

been here or? Yes, they were there. They

31:04

may still be. Or we want to phrase it, they

31:06

definitely knew this area.

31:11

They

31:13

may have lived here at one point but,

31:15

or had

31:19

a connection. So

31:43

I'm here and if you don't want at any time

31:45

to continue, just turn around.

31:56

I

32:00

can do it for Angel. It's

32:06

the next day. In all of

32:08

my work in Unsolved Murder, I have been a means

32:10

of travel into the dark places for friends

32:12

and family of victims. Midnight

32:15

tribes to nameless roads, delicate

32:17

forays through unknown forests, revisiting

32:20

a neighborhood that has long forgotten the

32:22

horror that it once hid. It's

32:25

overwhelming for me to dwell on it all, overthink,

32:29

and better dealt with by continuing to move

32:31

forward. And I'm doing that now

32:33

with Laurie Strand, who

32:35

says this is something she must do. And

32:38

so I do

32:39

it with her. We're

32:54

going that way. That way? Yep. I'm

33:07

gonna say a quick prayer over here by myself. I

33:15

didn't realize I would act like this. Did

33:21

you guys both walk up this way, or did you guys drive? Yes,

33:23

we walked up here. We

33:26

could drive all the way down, but I think the walk-in

33:30

is part of the kind of preparation journey.

33:36

Good morning, Sunny. You

33:42

alright? Yeah. Okay.

33:59

snow would fall then she'd be hidden for another

34:02

season. I have

34:04

a little bit of a mental block of

34:06

that day. I

34:08

was doing dishes with my mom and

34:11

then the RCMP called on my cell

34:13

phone and she

34:16

said that they found Angel and

34:19

I remember telling

34:21

them I'm like I'm on my way into Whitehorse and it was

34:23

a really bad snowstorm and my parents

34:25

said no we'll go in the morning and

34:28

yeah the

34:30

rest of it's kind of a blur. I had

34:36

to take Ativan. Back

34:38

then I was having anxiety attacks

34:41

after she went missing and yeah. I

34:42

don't know

34:46

what those are like. I

34:48

used to get panic attacks all the time for no real

34:51

particular reason apparently. Getting

34:56

closer. Okay.

35:00

Lori tells me she wants to cleanse the site

35:02

with a ceremony, one where

35:04

she will sing a song.

35:09

What song is song

35:11

is medicine depending on how you sing it. And

35:16

red was her color of calling

35:18

and so when you wear red you're protected

35:21

by your

35:23

ancestors. It's a

35:25

little heating

35:27

guidance so I've got my red hair tie

35:30

for my head.

35:33

I used to do a lot of work in Mississippi and I still

35:35

do and I talked to one of the big Mississippi bluesmen

35:38

down there Willie King who's

35:40

actually passed now and I said

35:42

why do people sing the blues and he said you sing the blues

35:45

to get the blues off you. Okay.

35:48

So you sing mournful to

35:51

remove mournful. Makes

35:56

sense to me. It does.

35:59

to get the blues off you that's what he said.

36:06

We're here. Oh. Should

36:10

we go in there? Yeah, so

36:12

this is the trail that leads down

36:16

to the wood cutting area. So

36:19

a car could pull in here and

36:21

not be seen. Okay.

36:29

Do you want to go first or do you want me to go? Let's

36:33

go to the woodcut. Okay.

36:39

I show Lori the stumps and we ruminate

36:41

that maybe the same group or family

36:44

used to come here to cut wood. Maybe

36:46

even Christmas trees that maybe

36:48

someone remembers this spot from those

36:51

times as remote as

36:53

a place to bring Angel.

36:59

You can see the lichen that's

37:02

on it so it's been there for a while. You

37:06

can see this opening

37:09

and then the trail kind of roughly

37:11

continues but let's go up here

37:13

a bit. There's a

37:15

specific tree that I'm looking for here. I don't

37:17

want to get lost on the trail here.

37:22

Yep. You

37:26

ready? Are you okay? Just

37:28

follow me then.

37:33

You see this diagonal branch here

37:35

on the ground? That's the tree I'm

37:37

looking for and if we

37:40

come up here

37:42

I

37:43

don't know if you stand right here and

37:45

look this way. Those trees

37:48

are right on top of where she was. Yep

37:51

right there.

37:58

The ground is still in the engine. to.

38:03

If you come up you can see. Which

38:06

way with her head? I don't know. So

38:12

sort of where the shovel marks look

38:14

like they've started here. One,

38:17

two,

38:18

three, four,

38:22

five, six.

38:26

Maybe six and a half

38:28

by one,

38:32

two, three.

38:34

Six and a half by three of my steps.

38:38

She

38:38

wasn't very tall and she wasn't a very

38:40

big woman.

38:41

And the officer said that the hole

38:43

was four to six feet deep. It's

38:47

deeper than the grave that I was expecting to see.

38:50

The bear found her. Grandfather

38:52

Bear.

39:03

You know if you

39:05

didn't know

39:23

you'd

39:26

think it was almost a pretty location.

39:31

Laurie moves further toward the

39:33

site where Angel was found and

39:35

I let her go, not wanting to crowd

39:37

her process with my presence.

39:41

My ancestors just stand with me and protect this

39:44

area. Evil

39:46

is no longer welcome.

39:51

Thanks, I give more tobacco.

40:00

My

40:10

family will come back and do a better cleansing. I'm

40:18

gonna sing a song that can't

40:20

be recorded.

40:22

Okay, I'll turn off.

40:36

Laurie's song cannot be described

40:39

except for the title I've given it. It

40:42

is the saddest song I've ever heard, but

40:45

one through Laurie that has dispelled

40:48

the heaviness, taken the blues

40:50

off this place as I've learned again today

40:53

that a human voice can do. And

40:55

I can see how pretty this location

40:57

really is, despite what was done.

41:00

Here, where I think more than one person

41:03

brought Angel, dug the dirt,

41:05

laid her down with their filthy hands. Maybe

41:09

someone very local.

41:11

That's where I'm going. Finding

41:13

the people who were last with Angel and

41:16

searching for anyone from around here who

41:18

may seem viable. I'm

41:21

interested in the wood cutting and the lichen and

41:23

some tips that have come into my inbox.

41:27

Laurie and I leave this place for

41:29

now

41:30

in silence,

41:31

but it's a silence

41:33

of strength.

41:41

Someone knows something is hosted, written

41:43

and produced by me, David Rijan. This

41:46

series is also produced by Hideo Alp del

41:48

Navi and Zeina Salem. Sound

41:50

design by Evan Kenney. Natalia

41:53

Ferguson is our transcriber. Emily

41:55

Canell is our digital producer. Chris

41:58

Oak is our story editor. executive

42:00

producer is Cecil Fernandez, and

42:02

the director of CBC Podcasts is

42:05

Aarof Narani. If you want

42:07

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42:39

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