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fate

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2:28

Hello everybody and welcome

2:30

back to Small Town Murder Express.

2:33

Yay, choo choo!

2:35

Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My

2:38

name is James Petrigal. I'm here with my co-host.

2:40

I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much

2:42

for joining us all aboard the murder train,

2:45

pulling away with a wild

2:48

story this week. This is another one of those 10 pounds

2:51

of lightning in like a one and a half pound

2:53

bag. It's wild stuff here. So

2:55

we will get to that very quickly. First off,

2:57

want to tell you that Your Stupid Opinions

3:00

is out. Our new podcast.

3:03

Check it out if you have not listened to it yet. It's

3:06

better than we could have hoped for and the feedback

3:09

we've gotten has blown us away. So thank you for listening.

3:11

It's amazing. If you haven't listened yet, Your Stupid Opinions,

3:13

wherever you listen to podcasts. Check out Crime

3:16

and Sports while you're at it too. Our other podcast,

3:19

our original OG first podcast

3:21

we did and we still do and love. So check all

3:23

that out. October the 26th, check out

3:26

the virtual live show, our

3:28

Halloween Spectacular. Just

3:31

like a regular live show except you can watch it

3:33

in your living room, in your yard, on your roof,

3:35

anywhere you want, anywhere on the planet Earth

3:37

that has Wi-Fi, internet, you

3:39

can do it. So check that out. It'll be available

3:42

for a week after the 26th as well. We're

3:44

going to dress up. It'll be a wild Halloween story

3:46

that is Shut Up and Give Me Murder.com

3:49

slash virtual live is where you get that

3:51

and get tickets for the December 2nd regular

3:54

live show in Dallas while you're at it. Dallas! Dallas!

3:56

There you go. That said, Patreon

3:59

as well. Benjohn.com slash

4:01

Crime and Sports is where you get the bonus material.

4:04

Anybody $5 a month or above a mere

4:06

cup of coffee,

4:07

one

4:09

cup of coffee that really isn't that good. It's

4:11

not the greatest cup of coffee. Skip one

4:13

a month. One latte. One and

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you're going to get a whole back catalog, over 200 bonus episodes

4:18

to binge on, back bonus episodes.

4:21

Then new ones every other week. One Crime and Sports, one

4:23

Small Town Murder, and you'll get it all this

4:25

week. What you're going to get for Crime and

4:27

Sports, we're going to talk about the TV show Pros vs.

4:29

Joes, where a regular

4:32

guy who's just a warehouse

4:34

worker, he decides, I

4:36

think I can beat a recently retired

4:39

athlete at his own sport, and they

4:41

can't. That's the funny part. It's

4:43

fun to watch these things. Then for Small Town

4:46

Murder, we're going to talk about a very strange case,

4:48

and it's yet to go to trial, but we'll talk all about

4:50

the interrogation and the facts that

4:52

we know. Sarah Boone, the alleged

4:55

suitcase killer, the lady

4:57

who zipped her boyfriend up, allegedly in a suitcase,

4:59

and then was like, I thought he was fine. What

5:02

a personality. It's wild stuff. Patreon.com

5:05

slash Crime and Sports, and you'll get a shout out

5:07

at the end of the regular show. That

5:09

said, let's get right into this. Post haste,

5:11

because we have a lot of show for you. Everybody,

5:14

I think it's time to sit back.

5:17

Let's all clear the lungs here, and hands to the sky,

5:19

and let's all shout.

5:21

Shut

5:25

up and give me

5:28

murder. Let's do this,

5:31

Jimmy. What do you say? Let's go on a trip,

5:33

everybody. We are going to Nebraska.

5:36

Oh, yeah. Everyone goes on a trip.

5:39

This is Lyons, Nebraska. It

5:42

is north of Omaha there, by Iowa.

5:45

It's near Iowa, by Sioux City, not

5:47

too far from there. Population

5:50

of this town, it's a tiny town, too. It's getting

5:52

smaller. It's 712 is the population of this town.

5:56

Oh, shit. Yeah, it's one of our very smaller ones.

5:58

It's down 26. 6% since

6:01

the year 2020. So

6:03

a quarter of the people have left in the last three

6:05

years. Is that right? That is

6:07

not good for a small town like this. Median

6:10

household income here, $34,327, more than $20,000 less than the national

6:12

average. Median

6:17

home price also low. It's cheap to live here.

6:21

$95,800 is the median home cost. Median

6:23

home cost is under 100 grand. Wow.

6:28

I hope they didn't hire someone to come up with this one

6:30

because I think they could have got a five-year-old

6:32

to do this. A great place to

6:34

live. Again, there's

6:36

like 19 of them so far. Some

6:39

company just spread those around, one

6:42

per state. Or what it's actually known

6:45

as kind of in the area is the sod

6:47

capital of America. Is

6:50

that right? Sod. Yeah, I

6:52

guess they grow sod here. That's where they grow it? Pull it

6:54

up and put it on a truck and take it to your house. Send

6:56

it to Lowe's. Oh, temporary grass grows

6:58

here. Won't be here for long. Enjoy it while it's

7:00

here. I'm going to scalp it and roll

7:03

it. Scalp and roll, baby. History

7:05

of this town. The first kind

7:07

of settlers into the town came in 1866, right

7:09

after the Civil War. A

7:12

lot of fertile soil around here, so that

7:14

was a good thing. Then the railroad came through

7:17

and then you have a town, as we know, incorporated

7:20

in 1884, named for Waldo

7:22

Lion. Waldo? Waldo.

7:25

Waldo Lion. Waldo Lion, a prominent

7:28

citizen whose land was

7:30

where the plots were laid out. Prominent

7:33

citizen. That's it. He just owned everything.

7:35

Like where they laid out Main Street, that was all his land. So they're

7:37

like, well, we'll name it after you if you let us put a fucking

7:40

drug store up. What do you

7:42

say? Let us put the post office up and we'll name

7:44

it after you. One of the finest trotting

7:47

tracks in the country opened in 1891. Like

7:52

horses, I think. Yeah. That's

7:55

what they call it. You

7:57

can trot anything, right? Keep

7:59

it under a certain... mile an hour, no running

8:01

horses, just a little

8:06

bit. It's got to be very smooth, it won't hurt your horse.

8:08

Is that what they want? I have no idea. It

8:11

doesn't really matter though because I guess

8:13

famous horses broke world records here

8:16

actually like it was a fast course. But

8:18

then hard times came and

8:20

it closed in 1893. So

8:23

in two years it went from the gem of the horse

8:25

racing community to closed. Not

8:29

good. Reviews of this town,

8:31

there is only one review because there's very few

8:33

people so we could find one review

8:35

and they seem to like it. Four stars. I

8:38

live outside city limits. Let's not go

8:40

crazy with this city thing first

8:43

of all. I don't know, people, for Christ's

8:45

sake. And absolutely love it. Small

8:48

town and lots of wonderful people. The

8:50

school and teachers help and promote healthy

8:52

learning. Whatever

8:55

that is. This is a great area to live

8:57

in with quiet quarters. It's

9:00

a tiny small quiet town. They like that.

9:02

So if you like that, you'll like it. If not, you won't. You've

9:04

got 700 people. How

9:07

can it be any loud? How can it be loud? How

9:09

can

9:10

it be anything more than quiet?

9:13

I don't like all the traffic that builds up.

9:16

What can you say? You haven't got a trotting

9:18

track anymore. No, there's no line at McDonald's

9:21

there. Oh, they don't have a McDonald's probably. I'm

9:23

sure they don't. Things to do

9:25

here, the July 4th Bluegrass

9:27

Festival. Okay. We came on through for

9:30

some fireworks and bluegrass and dancing

9:32

and a children's tractor pull, which

9:34

we've never been able to determine is a child

9:36

pulling a tractor or a child driving a tractor.

9:39

Neither sounds like a good idea. I hope

9:41

it's the latter. I hope it's the former. It

9:45

would be hilarious to see kids with tractors

9:48

strapped to their back fucking trying to pull that thing.

9:50

That'd be amazing. They wouldn't have got

9:52

three feet. You win. Little Billy

9:55

won with three feet before he collapsed.

9:57

He needed some Teddy Graham. Now

10:01

there's also a demolition derby. Those

10:04

are fun. And fireworks display. Also classic

10:06

car and motorcycle show as well. There

10:09

are trophies for best paint and

10:11

best of show for the cars. Best

10:14

paint. And that was the thing. Well,

10:18

if you've got a great paint job, you want a fucking

10:20

award for it. Look at me, my paint

10:23

job. Also, they have

10:25

the citywide, again, little

10:27

optimistic with the city. Wide

10:29

garage sale. Yeah, of course. Again,

10:31

another one of these. Jesus. Front

10:35

poles and yard sales. Come on through. It's

10:37

a whole weekend. September 29th through October 1st. Three-day

10:40

event. Not to be missed, it says on the website

10:42

here. Really? Mark your calendars and

10:45

spread the word. Everybody,

10:47

people are putting their old garbage

10:50

in their front yards and then selling it. Would

10:52

you like to haggle with your neighbors for some

10:54

shit that's been in their attic for 15 years? Come

10:57

on! Let's go! Break

10:59

somebody's balls about 35 cents. Jesus

11:02

Christ. It's sponsored

11:04

by the Swap Meat Flea Market also.

11:07

They have a Sunday Swap Meat Flea Market

11:10

shop till you drop and uncover hidden treasures

11:12

throughout the community. See you there. Every

11:14

Sunday they do this anyway. They do it anyway.

11:17

But then they have a Swap Meat, but then on

11:19

this particular weekend, everybody brings out

11:21

their old shit. Not just a few select people. In

11:24

just their own yard. Yeah, that's it. It's

11:26

an official garage sale map. No.

11:29

So you have to call or text a guy named

11:32

Corbin to get on the map, it says. So

11:36

get Corbin in there. We should call

11:38

Corbin and get our home address. We

11:40

definitely should. Let's all text Corbin.

11:43

Now let's not give out Corbin's phone number to

11:45

hundreds of thousands of people. That

11:47

would be terrible to do. It's on the website though. It

11:49

could happen. Poor bastard. That

11:52

said, now that we have a setting for

11:54

this place here, let's talk about a murder. Because

11:57

let's do it. In this town it's gonna

11:59

be... to be big news whenever someone is killed,

12:02

obviously. Oh, for sure. No one here, and

12:04

it's very idyllic. Corbin's getting a

12:06

text about it. Yeah,

12:08

oh, shit. A lot of this,

12:11

by the way, there's some good stuff that wasn't anywhere

12:13

else from a New Yorker article called

12:15

American Chronicles Stranger in

12:17

Town by a guy named Calvin Trillan from 1988.

12:20

So some good information in there. I want to give them a plug. If

12:23

they had info, no one else did. You're

12:25

uncovering shit. So- You

12:28

want a dog? Let's talk about a lady here. Okay.

12:31

Let's talk about a lady. All right. Anna Marie

12:34

Miller Anton is her name.

12:37

Okay. She got two last names? Born Anna

12:39

Marie Miller, and her married name is

12:41

Anton, and then she's divorced and keeps Anton.

12:44

Apparently, when she's younger, she goes by Susie,

12:46

but then switches back to Anna later

12:49

on in life. What? I don't

12:51

know. People call her Susie for some reason. There

12:53

was a lot of Susie as a nickname in

12:56

the 60s because of- Really? There

12:58

were a lot of songs where they ... That,

13:00

Wake Up Susie, and this one Susie. A lot

13:02

of Susie going on in the 60s. I was like- Anna

13:05

Marie got some songs too. Yeah, but yeah,

13:08

Susie was ... A lot of girls were nicknamed Susie

13:10

in the 60s for some reason. Really? Yeah,

13:12

like little girls. You'd call it Little Susie Q, and then it would just be Susie

13:15

after a while. Wow. That was a normal thing

13:17

back then because we've had ... This is not the first person

13:20

who was called Susie for no reason. Okay.

13:23

They grew up in this era that we've talked about. It's like a guy named

13:25

Jeff being called Little Timmy. It's weird.

13:28

It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. It's not.

13:30

Born in Washington, DC apparently

13:33

somehow, but grows up in Iowa,

13:36

in a small town in Iowa. I

13:38

don't know how that worked, but one

13:40

of a friend of hers described

13:42

her as a faint, late blooming

13:44

flower child who experimented

13:47

with drugs and also had

13:49

attempted suicide at some point in her team. Oh,

13:52

Jesus. Yeah. She was

13:54

all into the hippie movement. She was born in 1952,

13:57

so she is prime time

13:59

for the hippie movement. Yeah, I mean that's right

14:01

there. So that's what she's into They

14:04

said she was an attractive girl blonde petite

14:07

energetic They said she

14:09

had some problems though with drinking and drugs around

14:12

the time. She's graduating from high school Her

14:14

friends called her spacey. That was her

14:16

nickname You

14:19

know, so she's known as kind of a flake

14:21

too She'll kind of disappear once in a while if there's

14:24

a party going on where where'd Anna

14:26

go or where'd Susie go? And she's gone for

14:28

you know, who knows just yeah

14:30

on a whim decided to do something. Yeah She

14:33

gets involved with a bunch of different religions as

14:35

a teenager, too Which is

14:38

right at all. That's just great and in the 60s

14:40

late 60s early 70s. That was very

14:42

normal people were That was a time of

14:45

great religion shopping people were looking for

14:47

shit They were that was when people were looking at Eastern

14:49

religions. They were looking at all sorts of stuff She

14:52

became involved with behind B A

14:55

H I a I B A H AI behind

14:59

Faith and she

15:01

went to work at a movie theater in

15:04

town and She was responsible enough

15:06

to be left with the keys to the movie theater. Anyway,

15:08

she goes up and do all that So

15:11

she's she's pretty, you know responsible

15:13

when she has to be that spacey But

15:16

she gets out of that religion and she's in a bunch

15:18

of different religions here here as well she

15:21

was a follower of the Rosa

15:24

crochet Rosa crucians at one point

15:27

She dug deep. Yeah, and then

15:29

and then after all of this then she

15:31

went to and she was an intensely devout

15:34

Episcopalian for a while and then came

15:37

full circle all the way back to being Catholic again,

15:39

which is where she started So

15:43

she went she ran the gamut it was like I don't know

15:45

I guess this was fine whatever So

15:48

these other calendars of holidays You

15:51

know, I know what the hall I know what the medals mean

15:54

I know what the Saints are Yeah, you

15:56

know, I said it's enough for I memorized it all

15:58

it's too much to study everything else You

16:01

know, when the jobs and the national

16:03

holidays coincide with a certain religion, you

16:05

tend to just go to that. You just go to that. It's like,

16:08

well, you know, everyone's off on Christmas, so... I'll

16:10

just stick with this shit. They

16:13

said she was sincerely religious, all

16:15

of her friends thought, and devout, but then

16:17

she also would wander off for a few days

16:19

if what they said, quote, a good party came

16:21

along. She's real Catholic.

16:24

That's very Catholic. That sounds Catholic.

16:26

I mean, if she's drinking and doing that, that's...

16:29

I don't understand what we're... She's Catholic. I

16:31

don't know where it's

16:34

being separated here. I don't know. So

16:37

they said she would spend long evenings in

16:39

the kind of bars, in different

16:42

bars, and where

16:45

she would ask people... She'd have drinking

16:47

contests with people about who could drink the most

16:49

peppermint schnapps. Ew! So

16:52

that's disgusting. But again,

16:54

Catholic.

16:55

Yeah. Catholic is a

16:57

good... I grew up Catholic, and that

16:59

seems... That's what I remember. That's

17:01

a fascinating talent to be able to put that shit

17:04

away. Good for her. Imagine not having a heartburn

17:06

after two of those. Yeah. You can't anymore. I

17:08

can't. Jesus comes and comes. You

17:11

can't. I'm going to lay down in a minute,

17:13

and that's not going to be good. Could you mix the next

17:16

one with about 90% ginger ale, please, because

17:18

I feel like I need to settle my stomach. So

17:20

they said... Her one friend said she was almost like

17:23

two people. She wanted to be this moralistic

17:26

person. She had some sort

17:28

of religious deficit. She

17:32

wanted to be that, but that really wasn't kind of who

17:34

she was. Yeah,

17:37

because it's not fun. It's not fun, exactly.

17:39

That's what she thinks she should, because she's in Iowa. I

17:41

mean, everybody's... It's not cool in

17:44

Iowa, I'm sure, to be a hippie

17:46

named Spacey back then. They're

17:48

like, what the hell's wrong with you? Spacey

17:52

at communion. Shuck in this winter?

17:54

I don't understand. So

17:57

they... even

18:00

tripping. Yeah. She's

18:02

like, that was, that was punk acid, man.

18:06

You guys been in that one building, it's like super

18:08

big, there's a bell on top and stuff, it

18:10

goes off on the hour, like this one dude,

18:13

like he was dressed like he was like real, like

18:15

fancy, like he had these, I figured

18:17

he'd have real good acid, but then he put it on my

18:20

tongue and I waited. He put

18:22

tabs on everybody's tongue, none of us got

18:24

hot. Like a half hour later, I left,

18:26

I was like, man, this shit still didn't kick in yet, and

18:29

then like two hours later, I was like, this is bunk,

18:31

man. This is bunk. I went

18:33

back, I was like, yo, your stuff is no good, bro.

18:37

Would that be a terrible prank to just like

18:39

go put a bunch of drops on the communion

18:41

wafers? I'm sure

18:43

it's been done before in hippie times,

18:46

liquid acid

18:48

times. Just

18:50

to have a bunch of people in their best clothes going

18:52

batshit, monkey in a

18:55

zoo, fucking crazy with each other because they

18:57

don't know what's going on. The

18:59

only way to stay in control on acid is to tell

19:01

yourself you're on acid, you did this on purpose,

19:04

you should enjoy this. If you don't know why this is happening,

19:07

you just think, God is coming for us all!

19:12

I knew it was happening. You have

19:14

no idea what's going on. And

19:17

the organ and the incense and everything

19:20

else. The

19:22

whole thing's a horror show. The stains

19:24

last? Oh, God, get me out of this building.

19:28

Jesus, they'd end up, people would be

19:30

feasting over the open chest cavity

19:32

of the priest and the altar boys in the front by the

19:34

end of it. They wouldn't know what happened. I'm

19:38

told between that being funny and not.

19:42

It's not cool to give someone drugs they

19:44

didn't ask for, so that's never cool. Funny

19:46

is another story. Hilarious, yes.

19:49

Cool and funny are going to be two different things. There's

19:52

a woman who

19:55

hires Anna as a babysitter. And

20:00

I guess this woman said that the

20:03

way Anna was, was whoever

20:07

she kind of would attach herself to older

20:09

women that were mother figures, that

20:11

she would work for and things like that. And

20:13

then whenever she had problems, she just kind of leaned on

20:15

these people like they were her mother. You know

20:18

what I mean? She'd stay with people in between apartments

20:20

like the ladies she babysat for and stuff

20:23

like that. One of the people said,

20:25

quote, she sort of had a tendency to drift

20:27

along and have other people look after her. So

20:31

yeah, I mean a lot of young people are like that

20:33

because they don't know how to take care of themselves yet. Right.

20:36

And late blooming. Yeah, and late blooming too.

20:39

In 1975, she gets in a car

20:41

accident. A one car crash, just her,

20:44

and it's bad for her. Real

20:47

bad. She was almost killed in this car

20:49

accident. After that,

20:51

she drags one leg and walks with a cane.

20:54

Oh no. At 23. Yeah, it's rough. It

20:58

took her months to work her way

21:00

up to getting around a little bit with just a cane.

21:02

She didn't need a wheelchair or a walker. She

21:05

finds a husband after this. She marries a guy named

21:07

Tom Anton after she's incapacitated

21:10

here. But this guy is known

21:12

as kind of a grumpy son of a bitch. Yeah,

21:16

they said he had a bunch of different jobs, all just

21:18

manual labor. He eventually

21:20

went to vocational training school. And

21:23

while he was there, then the

21:26

marriage fell apart. Welding school is

21:28

tough on a marriage. Everybody knows that. It's

21:31

an old saying. Usually when you get married, the person

21:33

marrying you will be like, just if he ever goes

21:35

to welding school, no, it'll be difficult. So

21:39

they started to, she turns to get

21:41

a divorce from him. So

21:45

once she's an adult now, a friend of hers and I-

21:47

Good for you. Yeah, how about some physical therapy

21:49

and then try to get out there and do whatever you got to

21:51

do. And she's like, you can do that now. Yeah.

21:54

Nobody would tell her like, well, I guess you better just wither.

21:57

So she didn't do very well on

21:59

the divorce. settlement because they didn't have anything.

22:01

They were both young and he didn't have any money, so she

22:04

got $1,000. And

22:07

also her father gave her some appliances

22:09

and she has three large dogs. She

22:11

has Irish Setters. So

22:14

that's her package here. She is

22:16

living pretty much rent free in a

22:18

farmhouse at one point here and

22:21

an arrangement with a local Catholic church

22:24

that was made with the owner of the house that

22:26

she could stay there. She was

22:28

an elderly man and he went into a nursing home

22:30

so they let her stay there to take care of the house. It

22:32

was like, well, she needs a place to stay and you need someone in

22:34

the house. So

22:37

the owner ends up dying though and the estate

22:39

arranges to sell the property. She's got nowhere to go. So

22:43

her church friends try to find her

22:45

another place to stay, but they can't find a

22:47

place for her. How hard is it to find a

22:49

place for, I guess, three large dogs is a problem.

22:52

That's the problem. So I guess

22:56

some of the people had stopped being friends

22:58

with her because they thought she took advantage of them, had

23:00

them show for her around all the time

23:03

and wouldn't even seem grateful. She'd just

23:05

be like, you need to pick me up and take me here. Like

23:07

it was a taxi service. I need to be here, right?

23:09

Yeah, she'd stop being grateful. One

23:12

said she was a very loyal friend and she tried

23:14

to give back, but she could

23:16

be very demanding. So

23:19

October 86, she

23:21

ends up moving to Lyons, Nebraska,

23:25

which is a rural area. It's near Spencer, Iowa

23:27

is the next biggest town there. And no

23:30

one moves here unless their family's

23:32

here. This isn't like a, you don't just move to Lyons.

23:35

There's no industry. There's no jobs. It's

23:37

not like a place you go. So it's

23:39

really weird. Everyone's like, that's strange. Like

23:42

this is where your luck's going to change in a tiny

23:45

dusty town in Nebraska. It's

23:47

strange. The sad, the sod

23:49

capital or the sad capital for you, it's going

23:52

to be, it's

23:54

really fucking strange. They had a main

23:56

street. That's pretty much it. Main street

23:58

with that angled parking. that small-town

24:01

main street parking. Plenty of room

24:03

for those big dogs to run around. Yeah,

24:06

that's nice anyway. They

24:08

said she didn't come to the town for relatives

24:10

or a job. She had no connections

24:12

from everyone around there. They didn't think she had any connections,

24:15

but the person, there is a person she knows,

24:17

and that's why she's here. She

24:19

met a person. The mayor, Mary Piper,

24:22

she said there wasn't a logical reason

24:24

for her to be here. You

24:26

know your town sucks when the mayor, when

24:29

someone moves there, they go, there's no logical reason

24:31

to move here. That's the mayor. Oh,

24:33

it was our beauty and our thing, and you can drop

24:36

here, and maybe she wants to start a small business. No,

24:39

no logical reason. This

24:41

place is really a shithole, I'll tell you. I don't know why she

24:43

came. It's strange. It wasn't for me winning

24:45

the mayor ship I'd have left a long time

24:47

ago. Yeah, I was trying to leave, and these people, they

24:50

elected me. I wasn't even run. I don't know what happened. Forcing

24:53

me to be here. It was my turn. There's not a lot of people here,

24:55

so we all have to take a turn. So

24:57

she's got a cat as well. She

25:00

lives in this, it's called the Pink House on the street.

25:02

It's a pink house that was turned into a duplex

25:04

with a downstairs apartment and an upstairs

25:07

apartment. Used to be a single family home,

25:10

so that's how this works. Yeah,

25:12

there's like an inside stairway

25:14

connects the two units. That's how it

25:16

goes. So she depended

25:19

on small disability. She got disability

25:22

income and basically the kindness of strangers

25:25

and neighbors and church people to

25:27

take her places, run her errands, help

25:30

her if she's short, that sort of thing here. She

25:33

attended St. Joseph's Catholic

25:36

Church in Lyons, and

25:38

now she's still there back into

25:40

Catholicism. Some people

25:42

said she appeared to be a person who lived in

25:45

fear, which

25:47

she would refuse to open the door until someone

25:49

would identify themselves, which

25:52

in small town Nebraska and Iowa,

25:54

that's considered strange because people there, a lot of

25:56

them don't even lock their doors at this time. Right.

25:58

Come in, it's open. They have a screen

26:00

door. They have a screen door. They have a screen door. Yeah.

26:04

But like, you know, in a lot of other places, if you've ever lived in the

26:06

city, you don't just open a fucking door. You find

26:08

out who it is first. It might be a murderer

26:10

for all you know. You ever heard the story? The

26:12

show at all? Ever?

26:15

Also, she's got a disability making her

26:17

more vulnerable. Exactly. I want to know who

26:19

the fuck is there before I'm opening this goddamn

26:21

thing. Totally. So a friend

26:23

of hers named Shirley Edgcomb said

26:25

she also seemed kind of skittish and said that,

26:28

Josh, this is that Anna gave her

26:30

an envelope containing the

26:32

name of a woman friend in Iowa to contact,

26:35

quote, in case anything happens to me. Huh.

26:38

She doesn't even know anybody there. So it's really

26:40

weird. She also, by the way, that accident where she's

26:42

dragging her legs, she also has facial scars.

26:45

She has to wear a lot of makeup to cover it. She's self-conscious

26:48

of it. People and lions,

26:50

and this is quotes from people, said that she

26:52

looked like a pretty woman who had been through some

26:55

troubles. One

26:58

man at the highway cafe

27:01

said, quote, she had some mileage on her. Sir.

27:06

That's his quote. What

27:08

a thing to say about some guy. She drags

27:10

her leg. Well, that one, what is it, about 150,000 miles on that bad

27:12

boy? She's

27:15

going to need a transmission at some point. Her

27:19

fluids are all clotted

27:21

up at this point. I don't like that. She

27:24

had curly bleached blonde hair,

27:26

and they said she wore it over

27:28

to one side, and people and

27:31

lions, they said, either people

27:33

thought it was over glamorous. Oh,

27:36

she just had her hair pushed over to the side. With

27:39

a cane dragging her foot with facial scars.

27:41

Look at her. Think she's a movie star. Who

27:43

thinks she's the feeler end now? God

27:46

damn. I don't know. We were around

27:48

here with the queen of fucking angle. Look at

27:50

her. You're going to wave to everybody

27:53

as you float on by? Your

27:55

fucking coronation. Not there, lady.

27:58

Or they just thought she was odd. Okay,

28:01

they said it was kind of like 60s ish

28:03

the way it looked Still kind of stuck

28:05

in the 60s there But she had

28:08

a hard time even walking a few blocks from

28:10

where she lived to the stores on Main Street She

28:12

never didn't have a car There's

28:15

no public transportation. There's no cabs or anything

28:17

like that. So she needs Assistance

28:20

so people would do that. They people

28:22

would help her they drive her around they go back

28:24

and forth Yeah, people

28:26

said that Lions might have been the reason

28:28

why she came here is because it was kind of she

28:31

was looking for One person said she was looking for a peaceful

28:33

place where no one was likely to run across her people

28:36

said she was vague about where she came from

28:39

just somewhere in Iowa and She

28:42

said that except for a nun who forwarded

28:44

her mail. No one back there knew where

28:46

she was She said it was important

28:49

that no one back there knew where she was because she

28:51

feared for her life She's

28:53

basically Julia Robertson sleeping with the enemy.

28:56

Yeah vague backstory,

28:58

you know, I live in this house I don't know, you

29:00

know, don't worry about it. People

29:03

can't know where I am. Don't put very

29:05

fascinating. She's fascinating Hey

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their

32:00

retaliation. She

32:02

said she showed, this person said she

32:04

had showed quote some people in town

32:06

a newspaper clipping about a drug

32:09

ring arrest in Iowa and said that

32:11

she had come as a result, this all had come as a

32:13

result of her tip. So she

32:16

talked about being constantly afraid and

32:18

that's when she gave her friend a thing and said if anything

32:20

happens to me this is who you contact. So

32:23

I mean she might just be a lonely person that wants to make

32:25

herself sound important too or she might

32:27

be afraid of her ex-husband or I mean

32:31

I'm saying if you're a person who doesn't know her and

32:33

you just look at it and you're like I don't know what the deal with her

32:35

is but okay take it at face

32:37

value I guess I don't know her so maybe this is all true.

32:40

So the drug thing has

32:42

me baffled because she loves drugs. She

32:45

did love drugs at one point but it's

32:47

straight yeah it's weird. So the apartment

32:51

she used to live in or she

32:54

lives in now in Lyons the downstairs

32:56

apartment of this pink house used to be

32:58

occupied by a woman who all the neighbors

33:00

called quote the floozy. The

33:07

80s Iowa guys yeah the floozy

33:10

look at her she put eye makeup on look at that

33:12

oh Jesus what a floozy. I

33:14

saw her talk to a man

33:17

once they

33:19

said among others. They went around the back of the building

33:21

together only he came out. These

33:24

and what they described doesn't seem to be

33:26

a floozy thing as

33:28

much as a bad parent thing

33:31

she had constantly

33:33

neglected her two small children to the point

33:35

that the county came and took them away from her in

33:39

the 80s so you really had to fuck up you're still allowed

33:41

to beat your kids back then so just

33:43

had to let them wander. Neighbor

33:45

across the street noticed the new tenant being

33:49

Anna and went over and welcomed her and

33:51

all that sort of thing they said she was

33:53

this woman across the street said she's totally

33:55

different than the floozy she said the

33:58

apartment looked look this same but

34:00

it was now spotless and

34:02

it's nice, it doesn't look like a mess. She

34:06

said she's a devout Catholic, she attended services,

34:08

she kept rosary beads and a supply

34:11

of holy water around the house in

34:13

case she's got to bless something. In case

34:15

I've got to throw a blessing on something real quick, you never

34:18

know. She

34:20

calls her dogs her babies, she

34:23

doesn't have any kids. One

34:25

of the volunteers at church drove her to Tecama,

34:28

Tecama, I don't care if it's, the story's

34:30

not about this town so don't tell me how it's pronounced,

34:32

I don't care. To see about the paperwork

34:34

for her disability check and the church

34:37

was providing her with some groceries, a neighbor

34:39

drove her to Winnebago which is on the

34:41

Indian Reservation there, it's

34:44

about 20 miles away. She wanted to see about

34:46

registering at community college for

34:48

a law enforcement course that might lead her to work

34:50

as a parole or probation

34:53

officer. So she's trying to do here. People

34:59

from church would bring her food, the guys put

35:01

up her storm coverings on the windows

35:03

and people took care of her. She

35:05

has a support group here. People said,

35:08

they would say, who's going to go pick up Anna,

35:10

do we need to take anything to Anna? Everybody

35:12

was very worried about her. Now maybe she

35:14

doesn't have a lot to fear in this house because her

35:16

upstairs neighbor is a

35:18

guy named Gregory Webb. He

35:21

is the reason why she's in Lyons by the way. Nobody

35:25

knows that at the time in town but he

35:27

met her at a bar and told her,

35:30

you should come to Lyons, the place below

35:32

me just opened up and she

35:34

said sure, that's how she ended up here. Greg

35:37

is a 6'7, 225 pound police chief. Holy

35:43

shit. Who takes

35:46

the cruiser home. She has

35:48

a cruiser parked outside of her house at all times

35:50

and a gigantic man with a gun upstairs

35:52

who's sworn to protect her. Yes,

35:55

she's got a hopper upstairs. So that's pretty good for

35:57

her. Unbelievable. I guess. kind

36:00

of an aloof, unemotional, humorous guy.

36:03

Everybody said he kept very good business. Exactly.

36:06

Not angry though. Yeah. Or,

36:09

well, he was drunk as we'll talk about here. He,

36:12

they said he was competent and cooperative and

36:15

unlike Hopper was in the beginning when he was just drunk

36:17

in season one. So

36:20

they, it was only a two man police force. So

36:22

chief is really a, you know, you want to

36:24

do rock paper scissors

36:26

for this? We went by measuring. Well,

36:28

that's all you. I'm bigger. Well,

36:31

now he, he took paper and,

36:33

um, I have a strategy to always pick

36:35

rock and, or always pick rock

36:37

and this time it didn't work out for me. So I'm not the

36:39

chief. Um, he'd been

36:41

divorced for a few months now. People

36:44

said he was a good law man, had a knowledgeable,

36:46

you know, knowledge

36:49

of guns and new, new

36:51

police stuff. He knew it was skilled at reading

36:53

fingerprints back before he just put it in a computer.

36:56

Uh, the one deputy who worked with him,

36:58

the other deputy in the, in

37:01

the town said he was cool,

37:03

smooth, and not easily excited. I've

37:05

never seen him display an ill temper. Right.

37:09

So they said that this is not a lot for a cop

37:11

to do here. This is like, you know, a

37:13

teenager knocked over a mailbox.

37:16

Literally it's, it's what Hopper did a teenager

37:19

with a mailbox. Your pumpkins are weird. Let's

37:21

look at them. Shit like that. Uh,

37:23

one, but one guy said a lot of the job is

37:25

in the category of being a night watchman, a

37:28

lot of it is boredom. Uh, the point is

37:30

mainly to have a presence there. If you don't have someone,

37:32

the low life's know they can come in and do anything.

37:36

They'll come in and take over the town. So

37:38

she met Anna met Greg Webb at

37:40

the dry dock lounge. Ew.

37:43

Yeah. Um, one letter

37:46

away from the worst. Drycock

37:48

lounge. Nobody wants that. Dry.

37:50

Oh, by the way, speaking of dry lines is a dry

37:52

town too, by the way. Really?

37:55

Yes. Dry town. So he, that's how we

37:57

met her by leaving to go get

37:59

wet. Yeah, exactly. Wow. Good

38:02

for him. Go get some drycock in a wet place. Yeah.

38:05

According to one of her friends, quote,

38:07

everything else had shut down on her and she needed

38:09

a place to live and he told her about the

38:11

place and within a few days she

38:14

got help from a friend to help remove her belongings

38:16

and she borrowed some money from a priest

38:18

to rent a van and there you go.

38:22

They said that she seems like

38:24

she thought it would be safer to have a police cruiser

38:26

outside the front of the house. A little more

38:28

about Greg. In 1977

38:32

he was a Burt County deputy sheriff when he left

38:34

the force, this was eight years earlier, nine

38:36

years earlier, to go to Rhodesia,

38:39

which is now Zimbabwe.

38:41

Where the Ridgebacks are at? That's

38:44

far. As basically he went to

38:46

be a mercenary paid by the Rhodesian

38:48

government to keep a rebel uprising down.

38:51

Wow. That's what he signed on for. How

38:54

did he even find that gig? He injured

38:56

his knee in training and

38:59

then figured out after 10 weeks that

39:02

he wasn't ... the money they paid him, you

39:04

were not allowed to leave the country with that money. Oh?

39:07

He's like, okay, if I stay here, I have to live here forever

39:10

to spend the money. Why am I here? He didn't know that

39:12

at first. Right. He

39:15

went, oh, well, fuck this then. He went home. The

39:18

sheriff said of another county, said when he

39:20

came back everyone had tagged him as a killer

39:22

mercenary. They said, where have you been

39:24

doing mercenary work in Rhodesia for

39:27

the government, putting down rebels? Oh, okay.

39:30

Fuck that is. All right. That's

39:32

scary. That sounds terrifying. So 10 weeks there, they

39:34

said he had ... when he was there, one

39:37

friend said, quote, he had connections with

39:39

Soldier of Fortune magazine. Here we

39:41

go again. Again. Again.

39:44

He admired that lifestyle, but he didn't pursue

39:47

it, one said. So he attended

39:49

a Soldier of Fortune training camp in

39:51

Arizona in 1981, though. What?

39:54

Oh yeah. Maintain military equipment, a

39:57

supply of survival foods, and kept a small

39:59

cache of ... weaponry here, two

40:01

AR-15s and a couple of rifles

40:04

here, ones that were favored by mercenaries

40:06

in Africa that he found. Jesus

40:09

Christ. He only read war books and

40:11

saw war movies. His

40:13

friend Carlos said, quote, he was ready

40:15

for the Russians to come. He was ready for it. What

40:18

a weird way to live. This

40:21

guy watched a few too many Hulk

40:23

Hogan promos in 1985 and got

40:25

a little too carried away with this whole shit. The

40:28

Iron Sheik and Nikolai Volkov are not really

40:30

coming for you. They

40:32

said that he was actively involved in

40:34

a chapter of the Committee of Ten

40:37

Million, which

40:39

is a militia that is based

40:41

on ... It's like a Red Dawn

40:43

style militia, except they have nothing

40:46

to fight. They're just running around in circles

40:48

out there. Just out there, yeah, grinding. In

40:50

his personal life, he has a 12-year-old

40:52

son that he doesn't seem to see very often. He's

40:54

divorced. He saw a bunch of women in the

40:57

area, but they

40:59

said he would see people outside of town

41:01

a lot because he was worried about his reputation.

41:05

His friend said he was worried about gossip. He

41:08

wasn't gossip because he's the chief of police. Nobody

41:10

here, yeah. Small town. Some of the kids

41:12

in the high school called him G.I. Joe because

41:15

his only interest was in military

41:18

stuff and he wore camouflage pants all the time.

41:20

Really? Oh yeah, that's what he is.

41:22

He loves Soldier of Fortune. That's his favorite magazine.

41:26

That's so wild. Again, that

41:28

comes up. It's the third time now, but that one ... Was

41:30

that last week that came up? Yeah. The

41:33

mayor said he was capable and intelligent

41:36

and she thought it was a good idea for him

41:38

to keep away from the local people, keep a distance,

41:40

because basically you don't want to have to be buddies

41:42

with someone that you're going to pull over for drunk driving two

41:44

days later. Yeah. Keep

41:47

a distance here. At one point, he told a friend that

41:49

he'd been recruited to take part in an operation

41:51

that was to place a number of mercenaries

41:54

in El Salvador and

41:56

then that didn't work out. That

42:00

didn't work out at all. And so here he

42:02

is. He gets divorced. He'd never been

42:04

a drinker in the past, but his friend said

42:06

since he's been divorced, he started

42:08

drinking. Oh, boy, do you tie it on.

42:11

And especially he really liked

42:13

Mad Dog 2020. Love

42:16

that. Really? Which is the cheap wine that we used

42:18

to drink when I was a teenager that came in like strawberry

42:20

flavor and shit. Yeah. The man's got

42:22

a job and he's drinking that? Mad Dog 2020.

42:26

That is good. Gotta get the dog

42:28

in me. That's some shit you share with your friends

42:30

in an alley in a very sad day. We've

42:33

all done it. Because a homeless man bought

42:35

it for you. Yeah. Cause you paid him $3. You had

42:37

to buy him one too. That was what it was. That's how

42:39

it works. We've done that. So,

42:43

uh, one friend said they noticed

42:45

the drinking and this other sheriff

42:47

learned that Webb showed up drunk

42:49

one day for a freelance deputy

42:52

sheriff shift he occasionally

42:54

pulled, so they didn't hire him for that again. Oh

42:57

my God. Drunk policing. Um,

42:59

I guess they said conversations with his friends turned

43:01

more and more with his friends would turn more and more toward

43:03

drinking and womanizing as this went on. You

43:06

know, he talked about going to Arnold's park,

43:09

which is between East and Lake East

43:11

and West Lake Oka Oka Boji

43:13

in the area of Northern Iowa. He likes

43:15

to go there. And he said one day

43:17

in 86, we'll have an a drink at

43:19

the dry dock. The dry dock

43:22

lounge is in the Four Seasons Motel,

43:24

not the Four Seasons Hotel before

43:27

Seasons Motel.

43:29

It's a different place. How dare

43:31

they? How are they allowed?

43:35

He was hanging out with Jacob number

43:37

four. He was

43:39

hanging out with Jacob number four.

43:42

Yeah, no, it's not either. It's Four

43:45

Seasons spelled out. Really? Yeah.

43:47

Uh, he's hanging out with a guy named Jake of the Lake.

43:50

That's who he's good dude. Yeah. That's

43:53

when he met Anna and talked

43:55

him up. Uh, she said

43:57

that everybody said that in town,

43:59

she seen. intensely religious. Anna

44:01

said she talked, they said she talked all the time about how

44:04

she wanted to get rid of those druggies. Very

44:07

angry at that. Said she hated drugs and liquor.

44:11

Even though she just met this guy at a bar.

44:13

At the bar. Yeah, again she doesn't like gossip

44:16

either, obviously. Greg,

44:19

by the way, had been, he'd been banging

44:21

with Luzzi.

44:22

Oh.

44:23

Yeah, I guess they said. downstairs?

44:26

Yeah, and would still receive occasional visits

44:28

from her. Oh. Anna would

44:30

tell people that she heard Webb and the Luzzi

44:33

upstairs at night and it disgusted

44:35

her. Look at them. They're fornicating. They're

44:37

fornicating. Fucking. Disgusting.

44:41

Yeah, right. Oh my god. She was absolutely

44:44

disgusted as soon as she got done diddling herself,

44:46

I'm sure. I don't know. She was doing that.

44:48

I'm not saying. Yeah, she said

44:50

that she was, she assured their

44:52

damnation, by the way, by

44:55

sprinkling holy water on the stairs

44:58

going up to his apartment. Oh.

45:00

And told her friends she felt uncomfortable in his

45:02

presence. She has to walk through

45:04

this blessed water. That's it. Take

45:06

that. Get her cock. Yeah. That's it. And then she's

45:08

gonna, then what happens? You go right to hell, I

45:10

guess. I don't know. She did

45:13

say though that she felt safe living below a police

45:15

chief, so that was good. You

45:17

know, she said it was nice having the cruiser out front.

45:20

But then we find out that Anna and

45:23

Greg were hooking up too. She

45:25

says all over the outside. Yes, I

45:27

mean it's, that protests too much

45:29

shit here with both of them. He doesn't

45:31

want the gossip and neither does she. She doesn't want to be

45:33

the new lady in town who's also a floozy

45:35

now. Floozy too. The

45:38

new floozy in town. The gimpy floozy

45:40

over here. Nobody wants that.

45:43

So, Aquinas has said that there was no romantic

45:46

relationship between them. One friend

45:48

said she always insisted she didn't have anything

45:50

going on with him or have anything

45:52

to do with him. But her friends

45:54

in Iowa say, oh no, no.

45:57

Yeah, they were hooking up. He met her at

45:59

a bar. in Iowa. She just

46:01

purported herself as a completely different human

46:04

being when she got to Nebraska. I hate

46:06

drugs. I hate drinking. I wouldn't touch him with a 10-foot

46:08

pole. I'm a church person, but she's

46:10

got another side. She

46:16

was hooking up with him, basically. They

46:18

said on the October night when a friend of

46:20

hers from Iowa helped her move into

46:22

this apartment, they said that Anna

46:25

slept upstairs with Greg in his apartment

46:27

while this guy slept downstairs and Anna's a new apartment.

46:31

Now about a month later, this guy said he got

46:33

a letter from Anna where she wrote that she planned

46:35

to take a trip to Iowa with

46:38

Greg and said in this quote,

46:40

she didn't know if she could stand to be with him that

46:42

long

46:45

and signed the letter lonely and shock

46:47

and hopeful. Oh, like

46:49

a fucking... Weird. Yeah,

46:54

like a personal ad. Personal ad,

46:56

yeah. Like a dear

46:58

Abby type shit back in an old newspaper

47:00

thing. December 15th, 1986, no

47:05

one has seen her this day. And I guess

47:08

the next day, Shirley Edgcombe, the neighbor

47:10

across the street, was supposed to pick her up and take her

47:12

to the food pantry and

47:14

get some food, and

47:17

there's no answer on the door. So

47:19

she goes back the next day, still no answer.

47:22

And they said they were worried that she's unsteady

47:24

on her feet. Maybe she fell and hurt

47:26

herself too badly to get to the door. So

47:29

they talked to Greg, who's upstairs, and

47:31

they say, you know... The welfare check is right upstairs, yeah.

47:34

Could you help us? And he has a

47:36

key to the place, so he helps them out, lets

47:38

them in. Anna's not there. Her

47:41

cane's not there either. Oh, so

47:43

where she is... Her

47:45

three dogs are all in the basement, and

47:48

they said no arrangements had been made with anyone

47:50

to have them fed or taken out or anything like that.

47:52

They're just down there. And they said she called

47:55

her dogs her babies and would dote on them,

47:57

and that was weird that she would leave. That's just

47:59

very weird. And they said also where the hell'd she go? She

48:01

has no transportation. We're the people she depends

48:04

on. What the fuck? so yeah, sherley

48:06

opens up the envelope And

48:08

calls the person that she's supposed to call a woman

48:11

named sylvia nelson who lives in iowa And

48:13

she when she gets a hold of sylvia

48:16

sylvia tells her We like

48:18

she's like oh my god. Anna took off and we are she's

48:21

not here Cane's not here and she's very dependable.

48:23

This isn't like that and her friend sylvia

48:25

said This isn't unusual at all for her

48:27

to take off suddenly. This is He

48:30

she told her trust me if she gets an invitation

48:32

to a party that seems promising She'll take off

48:34

for a few days. That's how she is and they were like

48:37

Anna, anna, anton from

48:39

she she hates booze. That's not the

48:41

person we're talking about But they were

48:43

like, I mean, I guess it's good that we know that

48:45

maybe she takes off sometimes. It means she's

48:48

probably safe So that's good Um,

48:50

who knows? so december

48:52

17th, though um, there

48:55

is This there's

48:57

a it's a little strange now web decides

49:00

that she still didn't come home greg

49:02

web And he said i'm

49:04

gonna go ahead and file a missing persons report

49:07

on her since he's a guy can do that

49:09

Yeah, yeah, so he does that. Um,

49:11

she doesn't turn up here 12 days

49:14

go by christmas passes What

49:17

about the dogs christmas night? Other

49:19

people are taking care of them. No, I mean she yeah

49:21

She would have to feed them if they're babies. She what the

49:24

fuck 12 days go by wow And

49:27

then in walt hill nebraska a

49:29

farmer was going to get some hay for his livestock

49:32

Oh, no drives down a dirt road

49:34

to some land. He leased on the winnabago reservation

49:37

And sees well the quote

49:40

is he saw something sticking out of the grass.

49:42

It was an arm Wow

49:45

Yeah, um, it is a woman who

49:47

fits a description of anna She

49:50

is naked and shot three times

49:53

Really twice in the side once in

49:55

the head 38 caliber, um

49:58

naked with frost on her covered in

50:00

a blanket, like wrapped in a blanket. Arm

50:03

hanging out of the grass. Yes,

50:05

arm sticking up from rigor. It was

50:08

in high grass along County Road G, which

50:10

is an unmaintained dirt road on

50:12

the Winnebago reservation about 20 miles away.

50:16

So, yeah, Frost

50:18

is on her, three bullet holes from a 38. Like we

50:20

said, when they

50:23

talked to Webb about this, because he's the neighbor and

50:25

then the police chief. So he

50:27

said that, oh yeah, I gave her a 38 for

50:29

her protection. She

50:31

was always real paranoid. So I said, I have an extra 38.

50:34

Keep that in your desk drawer. You know what I mean? That'll keep

50:36

you safe. So the

50:38

headline the next day is Slaying Stuns

50:41

Community. And it's, you know,

50:43

holy shit. Greg Webb was

50:45

quoted as saying she had a very positive attitude

50:47

with a strong faith in God. And

50:49

other people said she seems pretty nice.

50:52

That's the basic thing here. Seemed like a nice lady.

50:55

So they, rather than

50:58

the police now, because it's on a reservation.

51:00

So. Yeah, that's another

51:02

thing. Is it police reservation? No, that's

51:04

the problem.

51:07

Usually if it's found on the reservation, then

51:09

the body, then it will be the FBI involved. But

51:12

because she's from Lyons and there's no evidence

51:15

she was killed on the reservation, so now

51:18

they think it happened in Lyons, so they have to have Lyons

51:20

involved. They also have the state involved. They

51:22

have counties involved. There's like eight different police

51:25

forces involved here. And they

51:27

all meet up, not at a police station, at

51:29

the Highway Cafe. That's where they have the

51:32

little sit downs. That's

51:34

where they have their command center. It's

51:37

engraving and murder conversation.

51:39

Yep, they said it was a convenient place because, you know, they

51:41

could get food and everything was there. And

51:44

one of them, this is, there's a reporter there

51:46

going through this as this is

51:48

happening. And one of the police

51:50

officers said, quote, let's face it, if

51:53

you find a body on an Indian reservation,

51:55

first thing you think of is Indians. What?

52:00

Did you find an arrow in her back by

52:02

any chance? Does he mean like-

52:04

Did she have a scalp or not? Yeah.

52:09

That her that her fucking

52:11

horse and buggy might have been overtaken. Her

52:14

wagon was overtaken by Indians is

52:16

what they say. A man with a a man with a white

52:18

horse and a red hand print on the ass that

52:21

probably did it. I'm pretty sure. What

52:23

are we talking about? Check her for hatchet marks

52:25

and... Unbelievable. Yeah,

52:27

so that's pretty fucking ridiculous. But

52:30

they said that there had been a report

52:33

that two Native Americans

52:35

in a pickup truck had been seen in lions that

52:37

day and that a similar truck had been spotted

52:39

near where the body was discovered. So

52:42

they said at that point they also had to think of was

52:45

this her ex-husband? Is that

52:48

it? Or maybe that's it here. So

52:50

maybe finally. So they made a call

52:52

to Iowa to figure out her husband Tom had

52:55

not been involved in a drug raid and that Anna

52:57

was not an informant. She never had a tip.

52:59

He was never arrested. All of that was made

53:02

up and she was not

53:04

afraid of anybody because no one was mad at her. Why

53:07

did she do that? That's the thing.

53:09

Who knows? She made... She had a complete

53:11

Julia Roberts story only there wasn't a psycho

53:14

ex-husband. He was like, I don't fucking care. I don't even know where she

53:16

moved to. He was like, whatever. She created a new life.

53:18

Yeah, I didn't get busted. I'm not pissed off at her. What are

53:20

you talking about? Like he was... And all the people that

53:22

knew her, her family, was like, she didn't get that. It

53:24

never happened. Like, it just never happened. So

53:27

the one cop said he didn't put much stock in the

53:29

story about Indians either. He said he hadn't

53:31

had a chance to do

53:34

a lot of work on this, but he said, this seems

53:36

kind of silly. He said, but Greg

53:38

Webb is the guy who's upstairs and he's the guy he wants

53:40

to talk to. December 28th,

53:43

he talks rather than talking to these cops.

53:46

He does talk to these cops. They ask him whether

53:49

he'd ever slept with Anna. And

53:51

he says, absolutely not. And then he said, okay,

53:53

we slept together the first night in

53:55

lions, but never again after that. And

53:59

the cops said... That didn't sound true. Yeah.

54:02

Yeah, no. Um, and

54:04

that's the thing because during the whole time she's telling all

54:06

the church people that this guy discussed her, she's

54:08

actually, they're sleeping together the whole time they're

54:11

hanging out together. Um, so

54:13

yeah. Um, one web had taken

54:15

her to a friend of his house who lives

54:17

near Sioux city. Who's another gun guy who

54:20

teaches at a community college and had

54:22

mentioned her resentment of his continued attentions

54:25

to the floozy she brought up to his friend.

54:27

He's still banging his one chick though. And I don't like it.

54:30

Um, this guy said of Anna quote,

54:32

she reminded me of Holly go lightly from

54:35

breakfast at Tiffany's that's a character

54:37

from breakfast at Tiffany's carefree, kindhearted,

54:39

but flaky. Um,

54:42

as, uh, they said it became clear

54:45

that, you know, Greg

54:47

is the guy they want to talk about, but he's also involved

54:49

in this. So we need to get him out of the conversation. Right.

54:52

So they said they were suspicious because the body

54:55

was left without clothes. They

54:57

said that their body seemed to have been

54:59

cleaned. There wasn't any hair or fibers on

55:01

it at all. So that's interesting.

55:04

They said the body was left in a place that could cause

55:06

jurisdictional complications and

55:10

that, you know, they think

55:12

maybe this is somebody who knows

55:14

about law enforcement techniques here. Not

55:16

bad. So they searched her apartment and the test

55:19

shows small amounts of blood on the walls and floor

55:21

of her apartment. Um, they

55:23

said there was no way of knowing whether it was her types unless

55:26

they got further tests. So they traced

55:28

the blood by the way, they follow it into the hallway

55:30

outside her apartment, then found more

55:33

on the wall leading up the stairs. Uh-oh.

55:36

Yeah. So there's talk about trying to

55:38

get a search warrant for Greg's apartment. And,

55:41

um, or maybe we could just ask him if he'll

55:43

let us search without a warrant. He's a cop, you know? So

55:46

they said, yeah, why not? But they said, no,

55:48

no, let's not untie blood. We don't even know

55:50

if it's his let's not, cause that's going to look bad. If

55:52

he didn't do anything and now we're bringing the police chief

55:54

into this, he'll never be able to be the police chief again. Also,

55:58

we ran out of luminol.

56:00

They ran out of

56:04

Luminol. We're like, well, we guys, we'll come back tomorrow

56:06

when we get more. We gotta

56:10

stop at the crime scene store real quick. Pick

56:12

one of those up on the way back. Jesus

56:16

Christ. So then the lab test confirms

56:18

that it's Anna's blood

56:20

type all over the place here, because that's all they

56:22

can do at that time. This is five days

56:25

later, though, this happens after they get into

56:27

all this. December 30th, Mayor

56:29

Piper runs into

56:32

Greg Webb as he's walking out of the First National

56:34

Bank. They spent a few minutes discussing

56:37

some juvenile problems. There was some graffiti

56:39

over here, something like that. Webb said

56:41

he's taking a few days off of vacation

56:44

time here for the New Year's holiday,

56:47

and then he didn't clock in for the rest of the week. So

56:49

the mayor assumed that, you know, he

56:51

figured he's taking his BTO. But

56:54

in actuality, he took every goddamn

56:56

dime he had out of First National Bank that

56:58

day, $3,500, and he's gone. Fled

57:02

took the hell off from the area. What's

57:06

the shit? So they get a warrant and search his apartment

57:09

on January 3rd, and they find a shitload

57:11

of blood. Really? Same

57:14

type as Anna, same blood from downstairs. And

57:16

he's gone. And he's gone. One

57:19

of the neighbors said, we were kind of jittery around

57:21

here. What frightened people, you

57:23

know, what frightened people was that Greg Webb had

57:26

been a policeman here for 10 years. He

57:28

knew our routines. He knew our schedules. Why

57:30

would he do this? That's what's

57:32

so crazy. A former mayor named Spike Goeing

57:35

is his name. Really? Yeah, Spike.

57:38

He said that he didn't knew that Webb was

57:40

not...no, this is bullshit.

57:43

He said that he was convinced that Webb somehow became

57:45

entangled in somebody else's troubles and was

57:47

fleeing the killers rather than the law. He's

57:50

afraid, too. You know, because he's a humongous

57:53

guy with an AR-15 in his fucking house. He's

57:55

terrified of people. Who happens to be

57:57

the most powerful man in town? Yeah, Chief

57:59

of Police. police, Spike said,

58:02

he didn't do it and I'll go to my grave believing

58:04

that. I think the man knows who did

58:06

it, but I don't think he did it. The only reason she

58:08

came here was to hide from the underground

58:10

to begin with, the Al Capone-type people.

58:15

A few white trash people with some

58:18

drugs in the middle of fucking northern Iowa,

58:20

the Al Capone-type people. Holy

58:24

shit. That man is very easily frightened.

58:27

Wow. You know, once you're

58:30

in the underground, you don't get out alive.

58:32

She had marked her husband or somebody.

58:36

So she must have ratted and they were all after.

58:38

He's seen a lot of movies, this guy. That

58:40

man should ... you just have to pass

58:43

a competency test to

58:45

watch the news or seize the security.

58:47

Or vote. I want that guy ... I

58:50

want to find out if he's okay in the head before

58:52

he's allowed to vote. No. He

58:54

ran a town, Jimmy. He

58:56

was a year removed from running the town. He

58:58

wasn't like the mayor 30 years ago. He

59:01

was just the mayor. Al

59:05

Capone-types. Once you're in the underground,

59:07

you don't get out alive. Is

59:09

that right? Wow.

59:12

January 6, 1987, he has charged Webb is with

59:15

first degree murder. They have nothing to go

59:17

on other than blood in this house and the fact that he took off,

59:19

but they're going to charge him. That's

59:21

January 7th. He calls

59:24

a cop that he knows in the area named

59:27

Douglas. There's

59:29

an operator that connects the

59:31

call for him. This operator has a foreign

59:33

accent. Oh. They're

59:35

like, that's weird. This

59:38

Webb, or this Douglas, was a substitute officer

59:41

in Oakland, which is eight miles away. Webb

59:45

called to see if his name was on the national

59:47

crime computer. They

59:51

told him that you're being sought for the crime,

59:53

bro. What the fuck? Webb

59:56

wouldn't tell this guy where he was, and that

59:58

was that.

1:00:00

It's interesting here. He did tell Douglas that

1:00:03

what happened though in his version, he

1:00:05

said, I woke up to find Anna dead

1:00:08

on the kitchen floor. She was dead

1:00:10

on December 16th. We were heavy drinking

1:00:12

that night, the two of us. The tie-in went on,

1:00:15

woke up, she's dead on the kitchen floor, so

1:00:18

I didn't know what to do. So I, you

1:00:21

know, I wrapped her up in a sheet, I dumped

1:00:23

her out in the field, I didn't know what the hell's going

1:00:25

on here. So I took off. Okay.

1:00:28

That story. This cop doesn't tell

1:00:31

everyone else about it for 11 days. What?

1:00:34

Yeah, 11 days. This is good policing

1:00:36

here. Fantastic. The sheriff

1:00:39

in the next town says police officers are tough

1:00:41

to catch. He knows all of our moves. Yeah.

1:00:44

Yeah. Also January 20th, his car

1:00:46

is found at the Houston International Airport

1:00:49

where he had purchased an airline ticket to

1:00:51

Belize. Yeah. In Central

1:00:54

America and someone had gotten

1:00:56

on the plane using that ticket. His car

1:00:58

was found, his original car

1:01:01

was found at a car dealership

1:01:03

called Jalopy John's Used Cars.

1:01:05

Yeah. He had a 71

1:01:07

Mercury Cougar that this guy bought from the lab. Cool

1:01:09

car. Yeah, it's pretty cool and he traded that

1:01:11

in for some other car, another

1:01:14

car that's the one they found at the airport. Okay.

1:01:17

So people are freaking out in this town,

1:01:20

by the way. I bet. Neighbor says, quote,

1:01:22

it makes you feel a little scared when you hear about this person

1:01:25

you trust for the town's well-being.

1:01:27

It's a small community and you don't expect

1:01:29

something like this. The mayor said,

1:01:32

the town is as safe as ever. She

1:01:37

said, don't worry everybody. Everything's

1:01:39

fucking fine. It's all good. But

1:01:42

one neighbor said, I think people around her here are

1:01:44

afraid he'll be back to kill everyone. What would

1:01:46

make you feel like that? 700 people.

1:01:49

That's a lot of people that go. Yeah, we're

1:01:51

gonna kill all of them. One

1:01:53

says, quote, a lot of people say he was a Green

1:01:55

Beret commando type guy. But

1:01:58

he was probably one of the best. police chiefs this

1:02:01

town's had. I was probably

1:02:03

closer to him than anybody in the town of Lyons.

1:02:05

This is some guy here, but our conversations were

1:02:07

strictly business. He's gonna have

1:02:09

shoe polish, camel claws coming up from under

1:02:11

your bed, snap your neck in the middle of the night.

1:02:13

Yeah, he's gonna be like Willem Dafoe in platoon.

1:02:16

He's looking to go in the tunnels. So

1:02:19

months pass. Months

1:02:22

pass. And one waitress said,

1:02:24

do you think the survivalists are hiding

1:02:27

him somewhere? Because they know he's in

1:02:29

like this militia thing. One

1:02:31

guy said, hell no! Guy sitting

1:02:33

at the counter here, a retired farmer,

1:02:36

quote, wearing a blue jumpsuit and a seed

1:02:38

company hat. That's called

1:02:40

overall. Yeah, that's why I said jumpsuit.

1:02:44

He said, quote, nope, I heard he

1:02:46

was working at a pork factory in Mexico,

1:02:49

but he had to move on. But

1:02:52

he had to move on. You know why? Yeah,

1:02:55

why? Because the pig squealed

1:02:57

on him. I really

1:02:59

hope she put ground-up glass on his food. I really

1:03:02

do. Someone needs to. Did he say that? He said

1:03:04

that. And the reporter said, Jesus

1:03:06

Christ. Then

1:03:09

another farmer said, I hope somebody

1:03:11

shoots the son of a bitch before they can catch

1:03:13

him. Okay,

1:03:16

here's another neighbor. I think he must

1:03:18

have been with drugs or something. Or maybe

1:03:21

Anna found him in the floozy together. Her

1:03:23

name is just the floozy in the stash. She doesn't even

1:03:25

have a fucking name. Who

1:03:28

really knows what happened? You have

1:03:30

to wonder what she and Webb talked about,

1:03:33

one said. I can't see him. I can't see

1:03:35

relating Catholicism to

1:03:38

AK-47 attack rifles. They had different interests. 1989

1:03:42

here by April, it's on Unsolved Mysteries.

1:03:44

They do it.

1:03:45

Oh yeah. Robert Stack. Unbelievable.

1:03:48

Oh yeah, it's one of them in the first season, I believe. Yeah,

1:03:51

and they have it on Unsolved Mysteries.

1:03:54

It's a big deal. They film something

1:03:56

in the highway cafe in town. They film

1:03:59

the reenactments. So where the fuck did

1:04:01

he go? Belize at least

1:04:03

well, we know he went to Belize But he

1:04:05

said he didn't stay there because quote they

1:04:07

charge you a fortune Twice as much as they

1:04:09

do in the United States for a hotel Sheets

1:04:12

on the bed in my room look like they hadn't been changed in

1:04:14

six months and there's no bathroom Okay,

1:04:17

so he left there he took off

1:04:20

here He ended up meeting a Frenchman

1:04:22

and they went with other Europeans and took a

1:04:24

bus to Guatemala City What

1:04:27

where they went to a bar where Americans and

1:04:29

Europeans were welcomed He said

1:04:31

there's one light bulb lighting up the stairs, but

1:04:33

it was a pretty good place good drinks nice band

1:04:36

But then out of nowhere guys in black suits

1:04:38

come in carrying assault rifles. They were

1:04:40

anti-terrorist police looking for rebels Jesus

1:04:43

Christ So

1:04:46

he goes to Costa Rica looking for

1:04:48

work He said he used buses

1:04:50

to travel because they were cheap and he said there

1:04:52

were hardly any jobs down there. It's weird

1:04:55

It's like why else? Weird,

1:04:57

it's so strange that it's

1:04:59

like I wondered why people kept coming

1:05:01

here Then I got down there. There's no fucking jobs down here

1:05:04

weird He said and eventually

1:05:06

you run out of money because you got to eat So

1:05:09

he took a bus through Mexico and

1:05:11

crossed the border back in at Nogales and

1:05:14

went to Tucson Really

1:05:16

then he moved to Florida for

1:05:18

a construction job Wow,

1:05:20

that's what he meant to do He said he was gonna work

1:05:23

six months and go back to Central America with

1:05:25

some money But then he met a woman named Pam Gilroy

1:05:27

and fell in love and several cuz they were cheap And

1:05:29

he said there were hardly any jobs down there. It's

1:05:32

weird. It's like why else? Weird,

1:05:34

it's so strange that It's

1:05:37

like I wondered why people kept coming

1:05:39

here. Then I got down there. There's no fucking jobs down

1:05:41

here weird He said and

1:05:43

eventually you run out of money because you got to eat So

1:05:46

he took a bus through Mexico and

1:05:48

crossed the border back in at Nogales and

1:05:51

went to Tucson Really

1:05:54

then he moved to Florida for

1:05:56

a construction job Wow,

1:05:58

that's what he meant to do. He said he He was going to work

1:06:00

six months and go back to Central America with

1:06:02

some money, but then he met a woman named Pam Gilroy

1:06:05

and fell in love and stayed. God

1:06:07

damn it. It's always a Pam. In Daytona

1:06:10

Beach with Pam. Oh, damn

1:06:13

me in Daytona. Yup. He

1:06:15

altered his birth certificate, changing Gregory

1:06:18

John Webb to Gregory James Weber. Okay.

1:06:23

Got a Florida driver's license under his

1:06:25

assumed new name. And

1:06:29

he's a Florida construction worker now. Unbelievable.

1:06:32

He said if anything came up with his social

1:06:34

security numbers, if there was anything, he'd just

1:06:36

leave and not come back to that job. So

1:06:39

he stays there. He says, it's a good thing I

1:06:41

met Pam, but as a result of meeting her,

1:06:43

it was just a matter of time before I got caught.

1:06:47

And she, by the way, has five kids, Pam,

1:06:49

and knew he was a fugitive and didn't care.

1:06:51

She knew? She knew. He

1:06:54

said, I feared being caught all the

1:06:56

time. I was even stopped by the police a few times.

1:07:00

He's there until 1994. Years

1:07:04

go by. He marries,

1:07:06

by the way, later on and everything, marries

1:07:08

this Pam. This Pam is a forgiving lady. He

1:07:12

said he would scan the television guides for episodes

1:07:14

of himself on crime shows. He

1:07:17

said during a rerun, he would leave town

1:07:19

and visit an imaginary sick relative.

1:07:22

He said, I would always square it away at work and square

1:07:24

it away at home. That way if nobody showed up,

1:07:26

I could come back and it was just like before. That

1:07:28

way if people saw him on the show and cops came.

1:07:31

Then he gets a tip, the police get a tip here.

1:07:34

A guy calls and it's

1:07:37

a guy that he recognized as a construction worker.

1:07:39

He knew it was Jim Weber. So

1:07:41

it looked a lot like him, except this guy has

1:07:43

a beard and longer hair, the guy I know,

1:07:46

but still. So he said, yeah. So

1:07:49

he called the police. Sure. And

1:07:51

this Krieger, who's the cop who doesn't buy any of

1:07:53

that shit, he said he asked the one guy,

1:07:55

I asked him what kind of boots he wore and what he drank,

1:07:58

which is a very smart move. He

1:08:00

knows he's specific to some boots, combat

1:08:02

type shit, and he knows what he drinks. Is that

1:08:04

the guy? And he said, quote, I knew

1:08:07

Webb would be wearing the military style boots. You

1:08:10

bet. So they went to Florida, they contact

1:08:12

his latest employer, the employer

1:08:15

summons him to the company office, and

1:08:17

the FBI and local police come in here. The

1:08:21

Krieger guy said, they asked me how I wanted it

1:08:23

to go, and I said all I wanted to do was put the cuffs

1:08:25

on him. So a local cop had to actually

1:08:27

put the cuffs on him, and then Krieger could take the cuffs,

1:08:30

that's just the rules around there. Krieger

1:08:32

said he walked into the office and said, hi, Greg,

1:08:35

remember me? How

1:08:37

you doing? And Webb

1:08:39

turned to him and said, quote, what took

1:08:41

you so long? I've

1:08:45

had to raise five kids, you son

1:08:47

of a bitch. Oh my God, Jesus

1:08:49

Christ. On the way home, they talked about where

1:08:51

he'd been and all this shit. He was

1:08:53

telling me that at one point they were in a canoe

1:08:56

in Central America, and he had to bail water

1:08:58

out of a canoe. And holy shit, it's

1:09:00

great. Almost died several times.

1:09:02

That's what he said. February 1993, that's

1:09:06

when all that happened, about 8 a.m.,

1:09:09

he goes to court charged with first degree murder,

1:09:11

but they plead with him. They let him

1:09:13

plead. They let him do a plea deal, because they don't have

1:09:16

any evidence other than blood and what

1:09:20

he said to that other guy. But that's,

1:09:22

who knows? So they charge him. They

1:09:24

let him plead down to a charge of manslaughter

1:09:29

and tampering with a body, tampering

1:09:31

with evidence. So

1:09:34

before his sentencing, he does an interview.

1:09:37

Webb does, and he says, I have no criminal history. I wasn't

1:09:39

out robbing banks in Florida or anything. So

1:09:42

I should be fine. Then what? Yeah.

1:09:45

Why'd you do this? Then they said,

1:09:47

why did it take them six years to track you down?

1:09:49

And he said, quote, these guys are so stupid.

1:09:51

They had my airline tickets. They knew I was on a plane

1:09:54

and went to Belize, and they never sent any warrants

1:09:56

down there, and they never told the people in Central

1:09:58

America about me. like, well, he's gone. So

1:10:02

the judge gives him, you sir, may

1:10:05

fuck off. He is sentenced to between

1:10:08

eight years and four months and 19 years.

1:10:11

Somewhere in there. Wow. Yup.

1:10:14

He'll be eligible for parole in 35 months. Less

1:10:16

than three years. Oh my God. Less

1:10:19

than three years. He said,

1:10:21

joking around as they took him from court, quote, I'll probably

1:10:23

meet some new and exciting people in there. I'm

1:10:26

laughing. I'll do that. And his lawyer

1:10:28

said the fact that he's eligible for parole in

1:10:31

little under three years is a pretty good result. The

1:10:35

best maybe. Yeah. And

1:10:37

he's six foot seven, so he's going to do fine

1:10:39

in fucking jail. He's going to be in PC because he was a cop

1:10:42

anyway. Right. He's

1:10:44

an ex-cop who murdered and

1:10:47

is going to get out mad early.

1:10:49

They are not going to like him. No. Well,

1:10:52

August of 2002, he gets out. So they keep him

1:10:54

for almost eight years. Really? Well,

1:10:57

he had to do eight years and four months, I guess. Right. They

1:11:00

got him on the ... They made him do the minimum rather

1:11:02

than his parole dates, which is good because he fucking

1:11:04

ran away. So nowadays,

1:11:07

he's a retiree in Florida. Get

1:11:10

the fuck out of here. Absolutely.

1:11:13

This magazine called him up and he did an interview.

1:11:16

He said he answers his phone and he

1:11:18

said, quote, my lawyer wanted to go to trial.

1:11:21

He thought we had viable alternative suspects.

1:11:24

When I asked him if he would win, he said,

1:11:27

well, we never know how it'll go with a jury. So

1:11:30

he said he took the deal to not roll the dice with the

1:11:32

jury. They were going to try to say that this was

1:11:34

either one of his ex-girlfriends or one of her

1:11:36

ex-boyfriends broke in and did this while he was sleeping.

1:11:39

His story is interesting

1:11:42

here. So ... It's a wild

1:11:44

one. Yeah, it's pretty wild. Now, they said

1:11:46

they don't believe any of what he said.

1:11:48

The Krieger guy, the cop, he says cleaning the

1:11:50

body, disposing of the clothes, dumping the

1:11:52

body in the middle of nowhere, a regular person

1:11:54

wouldn't think of those things. Right. He

1:11:56

knew what he would do. Very calculated. Webb

1:11:59

says, quote, we had been drinking. it,

1:14:00

man. That's ridiculous.

1:14:03

Krieger said he was a law enforcement agent. He

1:14:05

knew better. He should have been sent to prison

1:14:07

for murder because I still believe he planned

1:14:09

it. Yeah. He

1:14:11

also, one guy, the next sheriff

1:14:14

over said, quote, if Webb did it, I think

1:14:16

it was because he blacked out from drinking. Yep.

1:14:21

They said that's what happened. He remembers

1:14:23

last thing he remembers passing out in bed. He

1:14:25

said, it was pretty, I was pretty dang

1:14:28

drunk at that time. When you have to make those hard

1:14:30

decisions like that, when you're intoxicated, you

1:14:32

don't have a chance. Yep.

1:14:34

So that's what happened here. When you have to dispose

1:14:37

of a body when you're a hamdog? That's

1:14:40

a bad time for that. Maybe don't

1:14:42

kill people and you don't have to do that. He

1:14:44

says after all these years, he believes

1:14:46

that it's his former girlfriend who wandered into

1:14:48

the apartment and fought with Anton and

1:14:50

killed her in a jealous rage. He

1:14:53

said, in a way I'm glad I got caught because now

1:14:55

I'm aware there's a good chance I didn't do this. I'm

1:14:58

much happier, like in his, not in prison in

1:15:00

his thing. Maybe

1:15:03

he's right. They

1:15:05

said, do you have any remorse? And he said, I don't believe

1:15:07

I killed her. Oh. Oh, okay. I

1:15:09

don't believe. Interesting. Well, she's

1:15:11

buried at the Greenville Cemetery

1:15:13

in Clay County, Iowa. Poor Anna. That's

1:15:16

a rough life she had. That's so fucked, man. That's

1:15:19

a tough 34 years that woman had. Truly.

1:15:21

So there you go. He's free and

1:15:23

retired in Daytona Beach. If you enjoyed

1:15:25

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