0:01

Yeah, gone! Garmy gets

0:03

his fairytale ending! An

0:06

epic way to go to a test-match

0:08

100. What a

0:10

moment for the Southern Braves!

0:12

Seaweis, remarkable thing you'll probably ever see in

0:14

cricket. 604 and final

0:16

test wicket for Stewart Ball.

0:19

And Australia win the World Cup for

0:21

a sixth time. England's captain Ben

0:24

Stokes, while he is there, England

0:26

have hope. Well,

0:32

this week's Sky Cricket podcast comes

0:34

to you from Delhi, which

0:36

is where I am, one of the great cities

0:38

of the world, and Chelmsford, which

0:40

is not one of the great cities of

0:43

the world, which is where you

0:45

are, Nas, as ever, chained

0:47

to Chelmsford. I see you've moved

0:49

into the east wing this week of the

0:51

house. You were recording from

0:53

the west wing last

0:55

week. What's happened? Floods,

0:58

that's what's happened. I mean, I'm

1:01

going to read you this. Firstly,

1:03

I've got man flu, right? I'm

1:05

ill. So, I am seriously

1:07

ill. A lesser man wouldn't be able

1:09

to do this podcast today. I noted

1:12

yesterday we were supposed to do this

1:14

podcast, and you pulled out because of

1:16

a long, long lunch in Delhi, like

1:18

a beefy, long lunch that we used

1:20

to have. So, I'm ill. The

1:22

weather is miserable. It has literally reigned

1:24

here for a month. So, don't send

1:26

me WhatsApps like you have been about

1:29

Dharam Shahla and how there's some pictures

1:31

of it raiding there and how it

1:33

might sleet in the test match. I

1:36

do not want to know about the

1:38

weather in Dharam Shahla, either today, next

1:40

week, any time, because it's a lot

1:42

better than it is in England at

1:44

the moment. Well, I'm glad

1:46

you mentioned Dharam Shahla and the weather,

1:49

because that's where we can go right now. Our

1:51

guest is joining us from there. I'm delighted to say

1:53

that it's a man who's played 139 test matches, 600

2:00

runs, 3168 wickets, 192 catches and for the most part an expert at playing

2:02

the reverse ramp. Welcome,

2:09

Joroo. How's life, Joe? Yeah,

2:12

it's pretty good, thank you. It's been sitting here

2:14

now. It's been sleeping all

2:17

day. It's been very wet.

2:20

It's been wet. It's felt just like home. It's

2:22

been a nice ease back into things for when

2:24

we finally get home. Tell us

2:26

what you've been up to because obviously it's been

2:28

quite a break since the Ranchi Test match. I

2:31

understand that the golfers of which you

2:33

were among that number went to Bengaluru

2:36

and then about five or six of the other

2:38

players went up to Chandigarh. Yeah,

2:41

that's it really. We just managed

2:43

to find a nice golf course where we could go and

2:46

play for a few days and relax and

2:48

get away from it whilst we had this

2:50

little break and the rest of the squad went

2:52

to Chandigarh and had a nice time there relaxing and sort

2:55

of just waiting for this Test match to come round really.

2:57

It's been quite a strange way

2:59

how it's all fallen in terms of

3:01

the schedule but looking forward to

3:04

getting back to it now and finishing

3:06

hopefully nice and strongly. Am

3:09

I right in saying it was Johnny Bastow

3:11

who organised the trip to Bengaluru? Yeah,

3:13

Johnny's tours did a brilliant job. We all

3:15

had a great time. How was your golf,

3:17

Joroo? Some good, some bad. A

3:19

bit like it's tall really. Well,

3:23

it's good. I mean, that's convenient that we brought

3:25

up Johnny's name there because that's where I wanted

3:28

to start really. A hundred

3:30

Test match this week. Brendan pretty much

3:32

confirmed that he's going to play obviously

3:34

in Durham-Charlotte. So it's going to be a very moving

3:37

occasion for him, a great milestone

3:39

for him. And obviously

3:41

somebody that you have just grown up

3:43

with really is a year's difference between

3:46

you both. Can

3:48

you remember when you very first met

3:50

Johnny Bastow and what your impressions were

3:52

for the first time? Yeah,

3:54

I would have been 12 years old playing

3:57

in the junior section at Yorkshire and started

3:59

to play. Stay involved at the

4:01

academy the am on a scholarship with

4:03

the the rest of those young lads

4:06

comments ruin Johnny was always as the

4:08

So superstar. It, you know

4:10

we can't. The difficult tag of his father's

4:12

footsteps the follow Amber. You always lived up

4:14

to use one of those guys that always

4:17

excelled. Am. Was.

4:19

That. She like top of the class. And

4:22

and then. Yeah. Went

4:24

from strength to strength was that leading

4:26

player if you lie all the way

4:28

to get into the first team. So

4:30

it's been great to to play alongside

4:32

him for so long and got a

4:34

numbered stories. I'm sure. We.

4:36

Can read metallic probably at the end of his

4:39

career, how you can sit out forever and. Always

4:41

go for it for hours because I'm a

4:44

whole show on it. Was the only is

4:46

obvious that Cricket was gonna be a thing

4:48

because I think I'm right in use

4:50

an outstanding all round sportsmen wasn't Eat is

4:53

a great rugby player of things. He played

4:55

football pretty wild up. Would you always aware

4:57

that Cricket was gonna be his thing? Or

5:00

that's that may not see him by my name

5:02

and easily as you say was a with a

5:05

very talented sportsman grown up. any especially the asked

5:07

him. But

5:10

there's there's a was a his and

5:12

he's always been very talented. Everything. And

5:14

me Scholastic this week for plaintiff to

5:17

hire handicapper. go with Adams. Been. Uttering

5:19

everyone book And yeah, serious talent. And

5:22

as basic as you see on the

5:24

cricket field, this that's how he takes

5:26

his. I saw this poll

5:28

released saunas for a competitive. A

5:32

talented. Every

5:34

like as far as wise motions on a

5:36

slippery slope as well which think makes you

5:38

more is an brings the best out of

5:40

him. And. One.

5:43

Of those like really genuinely kind

5:45

people wants to do everything for

5:47

you. And might not always come

5:49

across either on the screen. And

5:51

but he i got really good heart and

5:53

and someone that will always have you back

5:56

and and the after you is always seems

5:58

to be a most dangerous. when

6:00

he's got a point to prove. Some people feel he's

6:02

got a point to prove in his 100th Test match

6:04

coming up. Has he always been like that? Has he

6:06

someone that if you knock and someone that you put

6:09

down, he will go out

6:11

there and show you? A

6:13

good example of that would be, there

6:16

was end of one of the seasons for Yorkshire

6:18

where he'd just broken into the first team, me

6:21

and Gary Bounds were coming through in the

6:23

second team and we were all called into

6:25

a meeting with the president at the time,

6:27

Jeffrey Boycott. And he

6:29

sat us all down and he sort of

6:32

said to me and Gary, look, you're playing very well in

6:34

the second team, keep working hard, keep doing certain things right

6:37

and it won't be long until you get in the first

6:39

team. Said Johnny, you've had an exceptional year in

6:41

the second team, you've come into the first team, got

6:43

four or five brilliant 50s. I've

6:45

got 148 first-class 100s. If you

6:48

want to borrow one, you can, because you've not looked like you're

6:50

doing one of those scores. And

6:52

I think one of his very next games, he went on

6:54

and got a double 100 and that was his first 100

6:56

in first-class cricket. And that's just

6:59

one of the examples of him going out

7:01

there, showing everyone how good he is and

7:03

making a point when it's needed. I

7:05

was thinking that he actually made his debut

7:07

just a little bit before you, didn't he?

7:09

He was the summer of 2012, you were

7:11

the following winter. But

7:14

if you look now, you've played 139 games and

7:17

he's just about to bring up his

7:20

100th, which suggests that you've been more

7:22

of an ever-present in the team, that he's

7:24

missed quite a few games, whether it be

7:26

through injury, but also the selectors have not

7:29

always quite known how to

7:31

deploy his strengths because he's all-round

7:33

ability as both keeper and

7:35

batter. Have you felt

7:37

that that has made him

7:40

a little bit more insecure than some other

7:42

people? And he's always had to fight to

7:45

kind of become one

7:47

of those names that's always on the team

7:49

sheet. Have you felt that through his career?

7:52

I think you guys know probably better than anyone growing and

7:54

playing through the 90s when it was

7:56

very difficult to keep your place within

7:58

that team. It's been a

8:00

little bit more secure throughout my career. You've generally had a

8:02

bit more of a run of things, but we've

8:05

had, obviously, numerous coaches over that period

8:07

of time that wanted to probably

8:10

set the team up slightly differently, try and balance

8:12

things out. And I think with Johnny, you can

8:14

play him as a batter, you can play him

8:16

as a keeper batter. He can offer so much,

8:19

you know, he's got such a wide

8:21

range of skill set. It can be

8:23

sort of misinterpreted sometimes of what his

8:25

actual best strengths are. I think

8:27

we've seen a number of different of

8:29

his best innings. It's not been

8:31

the same sort of model that he's gone out

8:33

and scored those big runs. You look

8:36

at his 150 at Cape Town was

8:38

a very different look to the

8:40

blistering 100 he got at Trent Bridge against New

8:42

Zealand. Similarly, you

8:44

know, the 100 he got in Sydney last

8:47

time we were in Australia, again, had a

8:49

very different look to the one that he

8:51

scored in Sri Lanka back at number three.

8:53

So he has had to deal with a

8:55

lot of change and being moved around, whether

8:58

it be throughout the batting order or keeping or

9:00

just as a batter. But

9:02

that's part and parcel of international cricket. You've got

9:04

to try and fit into the team. And for

9:07

the majority of it to go on and play

9:09

100 test matches proves that he's been

9:11

able to do that very well for long periods of time

9:13

and offered a huge amount to English cricket. As

9:16

Joe mentioned, the 90s, there's a comparison, obviously,

9:18

with someone we played a lot of cricket

9:20

with, the gaffer, Alex Stewart, in

9:23

the alley would do whatever the team

9:25

wanted. But you had Jack Russell there and

9:27

we had to without a great

9:29

all rounder, you know, beefy had just retired,

9:31

we were trying to manage our bowlers. Sometimes

9:34

Jack would play sometimes I like most of the

9:36

time, I like will play as a as a

9:39

keeper batter. The difference was was the Alec, I

9:41

think if you asked Alec and I did the other day, he

9:44

would have just preferred to bat open the

9:46

batting with you or Graham Gooch and the

9:48

keeping give it to Jack Russell or whoever.

9:51

Let's say with Johnny, he absolutely

9:53

loves the gloves for so many

9:56

different reasons. If

9:58

you took the gloves off him. He

10:00

feels hard done by without the a fair

10:03

thing to say the best I I just

10:05

think he wants to contribute and new ones

10:07

to be the main man you know thing

10:09

as that will allow people on his to

10:11

the bill to come to be a make

10:13

a big impact in the game and clearly

10:15

the more skills that you you you put

10:17

yourself forward for the more chances you have

10:19

a do in. I am. Whether.

10:21

That is is an element of security to

10:23

thou nor am I think easy anyone that

10:26

can really tell you that. The.

10:28

Am I think you look at lot

10:30

the best players across the game and

10:32

that you know? Like says Ben I'm.

10:35

Andrew Flintoff that that they generally get more

10:37

out and the more involved the are in

10:40

things and and the more most in the

10:42

game they are. So I wonder if is

10:44

just of and more of an element of

10:46

that wanting to to impact the game as

10:49

as often as frequently as possible. I guess

10:51

it's been two periods for him haven't they

10:53

were. He's excelled at of both aspects that

10:55

you've talked about. lose. That. Period

10:58

probably just after the Cape Town Maiden Hundred

11:00

A hundred that took a long time coming.

11:02

Think. It was his twenty second test or

11:04

something like that. But. Then, for

11:06

a period of about three years, you'd

11:08

say his performances as a T put

11:10

back that batting at seven. And.

11:12

Keeping would probably have world class and it.

11:15

And. Then. When. He was brought

11:17

back it or on the you for the ashes

11:19

it at Melbourne and he got that hundred at

11:22

Sydney. And. Playing as a

11:24

bathroom nothing, he got six hundred in the

11:26

next day test matches and obviously the summer

11:28

of Twenty Twenty Two when he became almost

11:30

the standard bearer for. For. Baseball if

11:33

we can use that term I know you don't

11:35

like to use it as will use it and

11:37

on out Would you say that he was at

11:39

his best he knows to particular. Pay.

11:42

Periods of his career. Yeah,

11:44

think so and there's been a lot of

11:46

a lot happened between the two of them.

11:48

but again, it just says the resilience of

11:51

the players belt come back and almost have

11:53

to remodel he south in a different role

11:55

within that t to still have such an

11:57

impact. And. And.

12:00

And in I played some violins as

12:02

well since a major injury they add

12:04

amps awful to and an amazing that

12:06

was able to come back from the

12:08

as he has done an book just

12:10

looking forward as well I eat look

12:12

at this week he couldn't riot Best

12:14

script for Johnny Best I could Yeah

12:16

hundred test matches as gonna ask you

12:18

what we got plans because I think

12:20

before you will hundred deaths much in

12:22

Chennai I was reading that you know

12:24

thing that seems showed us a compilation

12:26

of your greatest performances. New went out

12:28

and got. A. Double hundred the next day

12:30

will what will have the team got plan for

12:32

Johnny. Do not. Add the

12:35

not sure I don't have breaking surprises other

12:37

of it's just that show the be something

12:39

and you know Johnny how much it means

12:41

to him to play for England am I

12:43

think the other thing that we he got

12:45

a factor in is the fact that for

12:47

a long time he's been a major pop

12:49

all three teams and the were in the

12:52

mental fatigue that that can have on players

12:54

and been able to have the skillful enough

12:56

to switch across the floor mats very quickly

12:58

and a doctor that and not let it

13:00

affect you form we'll you mental state going

13:02

into each different one and to continue. To

13:05

continue to be consistent is to very

13:07

hard thing to to do for long

13:09

periods of time am and throughout his

13:11

career in or is always been. The.

13:14

At the top of at least one of

13:16

the o two of those formats and which

13:18

again is an incredible seats it said Bill

13:20

to say but yeah I have a be

13:22

an emotional week foreign and in I you

13:24

you bail to see. When.

13:26

We when we heard love and and

13:28

is that presentation. Every

13:31

bit of emotion that a be. Am

13:33

and in I have you a be really

13:35

nice to be able to be there and

13:38

to share that with him and Am gotta

13:40

be used to his speech as a fellow

13:42

Yorkie. Or by i'm

13:44

not a good talker that the ways that

13:46

is. It was an. ad

13:49

of a desolate of my lines and

13:51

ruin it so i have about sleeps

13:53

on a. To. make sure you get

13:55

it wrong the night before but yeah what will

13:57

say have not had the tap on the shoulder

13:59

for that yet so I'm

14:01

sure there'll be something very special in

14:04

line for it and deservedly so too.

14:06

Yeah it's going to be a great week for him.

14:08

We shouldn't forget actually that it's the 100th Test match

14:11

for Ravi Ashwin as well

14:13

this week who you've played a lot

14:15

against. I just

14:17

wondered, I see him, I

14:19

mean there's two off

14:21

spinners, finger spinners, off spinners who've got to 500

14:23

wickets him and Nathan Lyon.

14:26

I kind of see Morally Moore as a wrist spinner

14:28

even though he spun it as an off spinner. I

14:30

just wondered how you saw Ravi

14:33

Ashwin as a competitor and somebody

14:35

that you played against frequently. Yeah

14:37

clearly someone with anyone that can

14:39

take that many wickets regardless of

14:42

how many of them are in home conditions

14:44

to be able to be that skillful and

14:47

to offer a very different skill set to

14:49

a lot of off spinners as well. He

14:51

uses the crease very differently to

14:53

how your traditional off spinner might.

14:56

He bowls over over spin, side

14:58

spin, can get really

15:00

tight into the stumps, can use the

15:02

crease get wider, has got carrom balls

15:04

and lots of different tricks. So

15:07

you've just got to be really wary of all

15:09

the different threats that he poses and find, make

15:13

sure you've got really good skills to combat that and try

15:15

and get on top of him. But had

15:17

some really good battles with him over a long

15:20

period of time now but

15:23

also got to see him up

15:25

close at Rajasthan in the

15:27

IPL last year as well.

15:30

He's very clear on how he wants

15:32

to get better and make sure he gets all

15:35

the stuff done he needs to be

15:37

ready and you can see why he's

15:39

been as successful as he has been.

15:41

Compare and contrast, I mean Nathan Lyon

15:43

overnight as we speak, another fifer for

15:45

him in New Zealand. I think he's

15:48

got what fifers in nine different countries

15:50

which is remarkable as a finger spinning

15:53

off spinner. So compare and contrast you're

15:55

lining up as a batter to Ashwin

15:58

and Lyon. What are the different challenges we're seeing? What

16:00

would you say? I'd say with

16:02

Ashwin is making sure that you

16:04

don't play the previous ball. He's

16:07

very good at trying to drag you across the crease,

16:09

get your head one side of it, try

16:11

and beat both edges quite frequently. With

16:14

Lyon it's all about overspin, I think, especially in

16:16

the first half of the Test match. He looks

16:18

to get really over the top of the ball,

16:21

get bounce, bowl in between your

16:23

knee roll and hip, and try and

16:25

bring short leg and leg slip in the game

16:27

as much as he can, and

16:29

then slowly get slower with his pace

16:31

and drift wider into those foot holes

16:33

that Mitchell Stark has so kindly

16:35

done for him for such a long period of time.

16:38

Whereas Ashwin is probably starting more trying

16:41

to find ways of

16:43

getting you out rather than trying to weigh you down

16:45

like Lyon will over long periods of time. That's

16:49

how I've always tried to approach them, trying to

16:51

be clear out, is that's how they're generally going

16:53

to operate. Obviously, it's not always going to

16:55

be like that, and you've got to adapt at the time,

16:57

see what's in front of you, but if

17:00

you can have an idea of roughly ahead

17:02

of things and pre-plan things, then

17:04

in terms of practice you can

17:06

feel as ready as you can be to just go out

17:08

and try and take them on.

17:10

He's a very smart box spinner, isn't he? After

17:12

he did that Masterclass, or just a little thing

17:14

on the screen with Ian Ward a few years

17:16

ago on the tour of England, and he

17:18

explained about the scene position and wrist position

17:20

and using the crease. I think

17:22

the Indian management quickly whizzed him away saying,

17:25

don't give away any more of your secrets.

17:27

DK was excellent in the last Test match,

17:29

talking about him bowling with the new ball

17:31

and the old ball, and the seam and

17:34

his undercutting with the new ball. The ball

17:36

that got Olli Popa, if anything, pitched, and

17:38

almost, I don't know how, was an off-spinner,

17:40

went that way. Then

17:43

as the ball gets older, he gets a bit more

17:45

side spin on it and a bit more drop on

17:47

it. Is he a different

17:50

challenge with new ball and old ball? Yeah, there's different

17:52

things to contend with as well. The

17:54

way it gathers pace off the wicket, because

17:57

of his seam position and how cleverly he can move

18:00

it around. Obviously if it's the shiny side

18:02

it has that extra bit of skid so

18:04

you've got to make sure that your footwork's

18:06

sharp and you're in position that little bit

18:08

quicker. You're not lazy with your feet and

18:10

the thing that's when he comes really into

18:13

his own is when you're still on the

18:15

move and the balls you know in

18:17

that sort of danger area that you want to avoid playing

18:19

it from. So you just be

18:21

making sure you're as you know aware to that

18:23

as possible but

18:26

as I say if you've got a nice firm seam

18:28

and then you're skidding it on you've got both edges

18:30

in play for long periods of time and

18:32

the fact that he can get really tight in and

18:35

drift the ball away from straight you can

18:38

bring slip in as well as those fielders tight

18:40

in on the leg side too. Do you

18:42

pick seam position when you're batting against him?

18:45

I'd like to say yeah yeah I'd like to say

18:47

so I'd like to think so but he's probably gonna

18:49

get me out twice in the game now I've said

18:51

that. You're trying to look for any cues

18:55

that you can. Every time I've

18:57

had a chat with one of you two whether it's about

18:59

revealing something you know

19:01

after that your dartboard percentage you want to

19:03

get the next game I was like 20

19:05

or 50 or something and then

19:08

I got hit in the face

19:10

the last time I did a

19:12

reverse scoop thing for you guys.

19:15

So I think as a batter you're trying to

19:17

look for as many cues as you can to

19:19

give yourself the best chance as early as possible.

19:21

You always got to I think

19:23

you have to look to try and play

19:25

it off the wicket as well but you want to be

19:27

in a position where if you can smother the ball or

19:29

you can give yourself as much time as

19:32

possible to get right back and see what it

19:34

does off the surface then you're going to give

19:36

yourself the best chance of succeeding

19:38

against it. The other thing is it seems to

19:40

me at least I haven't played against him obviously

19:42

but it seems to me that he's a real

19:45

competitor that he's almost got

19:47

a kind of fast bowlers mentality in

19:50

a spinners body. You know we talked about

19:52

Johnny Besto to 100 tests, Ravi Ashwin do

19:54

you think that's the one thing that is

19:57

common to all players who've

19:59

played? played that amount of games,

20:01

test matches for their country, that kind

20:03

of inner drive and inner competitiveness that

20:05

reveals itself in different ways. Certain people

20:07

look more laid back, don't they? David

20:10

Gower kind of looked more laid back,

20:12

but he had that inner drive and

20:14

competitiveness. Do you think that's the, if you

20:16

were to pick out one kind of common

20:19

thing from those players, do you think

20:21

that's it? Yeah,

20:23

I think you've hit the nail on the head there, and

20:25

I just love to win. I think you look at anyone

20:28

that's had long periods of

20:30

success as a serious one

20:33

to add to a team and to contribute.

20:36

And some guys will look at the game

20:38

slightly differently and chase personal milestones, knowing that

20:40

if they do that, then they're going to

20:42

be contributing and they're going to be helping

20:45

the team, and others will have different drivers,

20:47

such as how can I

20:49

impact this game and how can we get

20:51

us into a strong position to either ball

20:53

the team out or knock a score off

20:56

or set the game up nicely. So yeah,

20:59

I think there's anyone that's played for long periods

21:01

of time, they've got that steeliness about them, they

21:03

might have different ways of showing it, but

21:06

there's definitely the in-grain competitor within them.

21:08

Which leads me on nicely to your

21:10

last Test 100. Johnny

21:12

Besto is someone that reads everything, as

21:15

we've mentioned, likes a point to prove.

21:18

Joe Root, that sort of boyish

21:20

smile that you've got on your face right now

21:23

was missing in that last Test 100. Did

21:25

you feel you had a point

21:27

to prove? Had you read stuff about the shot

21:29

you'd played? Or was it just

21:31

a case of you thinking, I haven't contributed

21:34

as much as I should have done recently,

21:36

and I'm going to double down here and get a hundred? What

21:39

were your thinking? What were your thoughts in

21:41

that 100? My thoughts were, I

21:45

try not to read too much of what you write now, even

21:48

though a lot of the time I agree with what you

21:50

say. But I

21:52

tried to just play the game in front of me.

21:55

I felt short of runs. I felt like I had

21:57

not contributed how I'd expect myself to and how I

21:59

wanted to. coming into this tour. It's

22:01

part of the world that I love batting in and

22:03

I've had previous success here and

22:06

had high expectations of myself. And until the

22:08

last test matches was way below

22:10

where I wanted to be. I

22:15

played a couple of poor shots, but

22:18

I tried to be trying to play the situation

22:20

and play the game that's in front of me.

22:22

And I looked at that situation and that, those

22:24

conditions there and it didn't need anything

22:28

flamboyant. It needed someone

22:31

to be constant throughout to try and keep

22:33

like a calm, calm

22:35

feel to things. When

22:38

that odd ball did react badly and

22:40

just try and build punishes in this

22:43

part of the world, you know how if you get

22:45

two guys in there for a period of time, it

22:47

can seem like a completely

22:49

different wicked to starting out your innings.

22:51

And that was the sort of mentality

22:53

I went into that, you know,

22:55

after my first 10, 20 balls and

22:58

found that that was the

23:00

most successful way of scoring for my game

23:02

on that surface. But

23:07

I think, you know, that people

23:09

will have their own opinions on how

23:11

I've got out throughout this series and what's

23:13

the best for me. I'll

23:16

continue to keep trying to play the way

23:18

that I think's best for any given situation.

23:21

No one knows my game as well as I do. The

23:24

reason I've got to where I've got to is because I've

23:26

always looked to keep trying to get

23:29

better and keep trying to improve and keep trying

23:31

to evolve. And that's got to keep happening. If

23:33

you stand still in this game, the

23:35

amount of information and analysis out

23:37

there, you

23:40

will get found out and you will stand still and

23:42

people will work you out. So

23:44

I'm not always gonna get it right. I'm gonna make the odd

23:46

mistake. But, you

23:49

know, in that last estimate, it's

23:51

not, I don't think this is

23:54

a cowardly way of looking at it, but I

23:56

could have played a cover drive and

23:58

chopped that onto the surface. or got caught

24:01

second slip and got out in

24:03

a similar fashion to the game before to Bumrur. And

24:06

then there could have been noise around

24:08

having a problem outside off stump to

24:10

that particular bowler. It's just

24:12

how it was. It did actually keep

24:14

low and that's why I edged it.

24:17

But you know you could say you didn't

24:19

need to play that shot in that moment

24:21

but whenever I have played it you could

24:23

also say that too. Similarly to when I

24:25

dabbed that one down to third man every

24:27

now and again top of our stump it's

24:29

a shot that scores me a lot of

24:31

runs. It's one that has different questions of

24:33

the bowler and could

24:36

have changed the complete complexion

24:38

of that morning with them a bowler

24:40

down. I mean there's been

24:42

a lot of talk about Ashwin not being

24:44

there. If you see off Bumrur, if Bumrur

24:46

goes at fore and over in that spell

24:48

they've got one less person to turn to

24:50

under pressure and we could get

24:52

ahead of the game even quicker on

24:54

a potentially deteriorating wicket and put

24:56

more pressure on India later on

24:59

in the test match. So yeah

25:02

that's there with my thought processes

25:04

at that time and I

25:06

stick by them. I look at

25:08

the execution of it and

25:11

you know and most importantly not take that baggage

25:13

into the next test match. I think that's the

25:15

most important thing you are going to get out

25:17

at some point. It doesn't matter how it looks

25:19

like in the scorebook as

25:22

we all know and the most important

25:24

thing is that you put your best

25:26

foot forward in the next game and

25:28

try and make sure that you make

25:31

those big scores that help you win test matches.

25:33

I listened to some of your

25:36

comments after the hundred and I sensed

25:38

a little bit of frustration about

25:41

the fact that we in the media, we obviously

25:43

refer to Basbaw because it's just kind of a

25:45

simple way of referring

25:47

to this period under which you know Ben

25:49

Stokes and Brendan McCollum had been in charge.

25:52

But I get, I got a sense of

25:54

a frustration that you think we almost

25:57

reduce it down to something

25:59

that's that's a little too simplistic

26:01

and a little bit more simplistic. And

26:04

actually, the

26:06

team is a bit more savvy and think

26:08

about it a lot more than that simple

26:11

reduction to one term

26:13

suggests. Is there that

26:15

frustration within the team? I

26:18

wouldn't say too much frustration within

26:20

the team. I think the most important

26:22

thing is we've

26:25

got to keep trying to find ways

26:27

of getting the best out of each other and

26:29

the best out of each other's games. And if

26:31

you look at the last two years, however

26:33

long it's been since Ben took

26:35

over as captain, Brendan came in as coach.

26:38

Look at our batting lineup in particular, the

26:42

consistency throughout it. And some

26:45

of the individual's performances over the last two

26:47

years have been in stark contrast to what

26:49

they were before that. You

26:52

look at our top order, it's far more consistent than

26:54

it has been for a long, long time. You

26:57

could argue since Cook and Strauss

26:59

really, especially

27:01

the last year or so, I think

27:04

Crawley and Duckett have been phenomenal together.

27:06

They've done some wonderful things and put

27:08

some number of, I think

27:10

pretty much every game we've had at least one,

27:14

probably mostly 250 partnerships in every

27:16

innings or 40 plus partnerships. And

27:19

this part of the world can be quite tricky to do,

27:21

especially in the second innings. Ollie

27:23

Pokes looks very

27:27

settled and in that

27:29

position at number three, made

27:32

a brilliant score at the start of this series. And

27:37

since Ben and Baz came in, he's

27:39

been a completely different player.

27:42

I was seeing to be getting the best out of these younger

27:45

guys that have been maybe a little bit less

27:47

settled under a different captain. So,

27:52

I think that's the bigger picture is that

27:54

it's not about going out and blasting it.

27:56

It's like, how can we get the best

27:58

out of each other? what's going to

28:01

bring the best out of their individual

28:03

games. And it won't always be

28:05

one way. There's going to be times

28:07

where you've got to be pragmatic and you've got to

28:09

play slightly differently. But when you

28:11

get your chance to express yourself in

28:13

the best possible version of yourself, then I

28:16

think you have to take it. And I

28:18

think more often than not, those guys have done that.

28:21

I think the thing that's been disappointing about

28:23

this trip is the experienced guys like myself

28:25

have not been the ones that have contributed

28:27

around their performances. So I think

28:30

that's where it probably looks a little

28:32

bit unmatched in this series. And

28:35

is there that frustration as we go

28:37

into the final test match? It stands at 3-1.

28:39

How does the team look back at the

28:42

last four tests? Are you saying to

28:44

yourselves, well, we've competed

28:46

often from session to session and the

28:48

games have been very nip and tuck

28:50

for the most part. Or

28:52

are you saying, well, we've missed

28:54

some opportunities as well and therefore

28:57

that frustration remains? I

28:59

don't think this team does regret really, to

29:02

be honest. I think you've got to

29:04

learn from every opportunity that you have

29:06

out there. But

29:09

if you look back at it, which

29:13

probably we'll do at the end of the

29:15

series or personally anyway, and you

29:17

look at our last tour here, it's been

29:19

a stark difference in terms of how we've

29:21

actually performed. If you take the results

29:23

completely out of it. I think as

29:25

well, we lost our experienced spinner

29:28

after the first test match to

29:31

guys making their way and one

29:33

in his first game to debutons.

29:37

To perform our day half throughout,

29:39

I think, shows great promise and

29:41

strength for us moving forward especially

29:44

in the subcontinent for a long period of

29:46

time to come. We found

29:48

things out that we didn't know before this series,

29:50

I think would be fair to say. We've

29:55

had some guys that in the second, mainly

29:58

the second tour of the India having

30:02

the experience of that

30:04

COVID series come out and

30:06

done some wonderful things as well and either been

30:09

consistent like Zach has or had

30:11

big hundreds like Ben Ducky after his

30:13

first tour and Analipope 190 as well.

30:16

So I think there

30:19

is things probably from a

30:21

more long term point of view looking

30:24

at things that set us in a

30:26

good place moving forward. It's just

30:28

you know you always see results

30:31

is what you're

30:33

going to get judged on externally but there

30:36

are obviously things that have been very good

30:38

throughout as well. Have you enjoyed the trip

30:40

Joe? I mean India is a great place

30:43

to tour. You've done that previous tour out

30:45

there, you've done a World Cup

30:47

recently, you've done Rajasthan Royals, you've now

30:49

got this tour. Do you love

30:51

being in that part of the world or do you just get

30:53

mobbed everywhere you go? You do get mobbed

30:55

but it's all part and parcel of the experience.

30:58

There's some wonderful things that

31:00

you can do out here and you

31:03

know all of the games that

31:05

contain a great atmosphere. I think the one thing that's

31:07

been missing this series is having Virat

31:09

Kohli here and seeing the whole ground fill

31:12

up and then empty again when he gets

31:14

out. That's been the only difference really this

31:16

time but the passion for the game here

31:18

is second to none. They love their cricket

31:21

and people look at test

31:23

cricket and say it might be second fiddle

31:25

in this part of the world in particular

31:27

but you look at the crowds and the

31:30

enthusiasm within the grounds in particular. You

31:32

certainly wouldn't say that being there

31:35

live at the

31:37

games. It's

31:39

always a pleasure to come play here. It's

31:41

just been a small frustration that I've not been

31:43

able to make some bigger scores more frequently but

31:46

one more chance to go out there and

31:48

help us try and win another Test match. Well

31:51

I reckon it's going to be a bit like batting

31:53

eddingly in March or something so you'll be the

31:57

best man no doubt you and Johnny local

31:59

Knowledge Low. local conditions. Thanks

32:02

for joining us. I don't want to keep you too

32:04

long, but it's been a pleasure as always to chat

32:06

to you. I'm coming up to

32:08

Darren Charlotte tomorrow, so no doubt we'll catch

32:10

up over the next five days. Fingers

32:12

crossed for another, I mean the test cricket

32:14

that we've seen has been fantastic to watch,

32:17

and fingers crossed you get on the right

32:19

end of it throughout the next few

32:21

days. Cheers, that's it. Thanks, Nas. Well

32:24

we talked there, Nas, about all the

32:27

kind of common traits that these

32:29

players who played for 10, 15

32:32

years for their country share, one

32:34

of them competitiveness and hard-nosed competitiveness

32:36

to will to win, but not

32:38

everybody is as humble as Joe Root. I'm

32:42

always incredibly impressed with the

32:44

way that he talks so easily

32:47

about the comparison of the Stokes-McCallum

32:49

regime with what went before, because

32:51

obviously that was when he

32:54

was in charge, and we've all

32:56

been there as captains, and then you've played under

32:58

the following captain. It is not an easy thing

33:01

when that comparison is

33:03

made, is it? But he copes with it

33:05

admirably. He does, because he's a high-class individual

33:08

really. From the moment he came in

33:11

the side, and that's why I mentioned

33:13

about him playing with a smile on

33:15

his face, he just loves playing cricket.

33:17

He never forgets that child growing up

33:19

in Sheffield playing Sheffield collegiate, schoolboy cricket,

33:21

what it means to him, whether it

33:23

be under a different regime, and you're

33:25

right, I haven't nearly turned to him

33:27

there and asked him about the previous

33:30

regime when he hinted at it, but

33:33

I wasn't going to be so cruel. So listen,

33:35

his best mate Stokes is in charge,

33:37

so he will give it absolutely everything.

33:39

So tell the thing, a little bit

33:41

like Ashwin actually, and with these great

33:43

players, with Joe, when he speaks

33:46

about batting, but when he was speaking there

33:48

for a long time about his thought processes,

33:51

you hang on every word. There's a lot

33:53

of thought that goes into Joe Ruth the

33:55

criggler. It's not just the talent you're given

33:57

or born with, it's also you

34:00

think about your own game and look to improve.

34:03

Yeah and he's certainly made the most of it. Darren

34:06

Charles starts on Thursday, this is acting as

34:08

our preview for that but is that? What

34:12

do we know about the Amish and apart from the weather,

34:14

what do we know when we were there

34:16

for the World Cup it did look like it helped

34:18

the Seemers a little bit more and it went through

34:20

a little bit more. Are we expecting the same? I

34:23

think so just because of the weather that they've

34:25

had it's been very wet the last few days

34:27

it's obviously much cooler than when we were in

34:30

October, seems a long time ago doesn't it?

34:32

England played Bangladesh there if

34:35

you remember, one of the few wins that they've

34:37

had in India over the four months that they've

34:39

been there this winter. But

34:41

if you look at the stats Benedict sent us, the

34:43

stats didn't he the other day about the last 10

34:46

years of first-class cricket there where

34:48

generally it's favoured the Seemers over the

34:50

Spinners, they won't be many venues in

34:52

India where that will be the case. So I think

34:55

you'll expect to see England, well

34:58

they're certainly not going to go in with one Seem

35:00

but they'll definitely go in with two, they may even

35:02

go in with three which would then would be interesting,

35:04

you know do they give Gus Atkinson a run out

35:06

if they only played one spinner, which spinner will

35:10

it be? And for India, Bummer

35:12

is back to stiffen their Seem

35:14

bowling attack so obviously they'll be

35:16

buoyed by his return. Pateadars

35:19

the question mark whether he gets one

35:21

more opportunity and

35:23

so we'll wait and see on their team

35:25

selections. What about just turn our attentions elsewhere

35:28

since we last spoke? Quite a

35:30

bit has happened hasn't it in the world

35:32

of cricket? I mean Australia have turned over

35:34

New Zealand in the first Test match there

35:37

and they've got an incredible record against New

35:39

Zealand and Ireland won their first

35:41

Test match against Afghanistan which was a

35:44

great moment for them. Yeah

35:46

some great great scenes from that Ireland

35:49

Test match, brilliant for them

35:52

and you know the the Australia New

35:54

Zealand game was going one way then

35:56

tada and they prepared a green top when I

35:58

looked at that pitch. I thought that's a

36:01

brave thing to do against that

36:03

Australian bowling attack and it proved

36:05

to be the case really. Having

36:08

said that, the green top, Nathan Lyon,

36:10

Bob Rilett, he got temper in the

36:12

game, didn't he? I mean, he

36:14

is just a phenomenal, phenomenal

36:17

finger spinner. One of

36:19

the all-time greats. We touched on it there, the challenges

36:21

facing him when we spoke to Joe

36:23

Rook. So yeah, and also in India

36:25

itself, Ast, there's been some

36:28

central contracts have been announced.

36:31

What have you made of it? They seem to be trying

36:33

to back first-class cricket. Do you think they've got it

36:35

right? It goes back to a leaked

36:38

memo that was published by a lot

36:40

of outlets here in India a few

36:42

weeks ago where the BCCI had written

36:44

to their contracted players to say that they

36:47

expected them to play domestic cricket.

36:49

I suppose there's two elements to that. One, I think

36:51

that's a good thing. I think players

36:53

should be encouraged to play domestic cricket. You

36:55

never forget where you've come from. It

36:58

also helps to improve the

37:00

standards of first-class cricket. And

37:03

you just can't have a situation, I don't

37:05

think, where players are

37:07

completely separate from the

37:09

system which has produced

37:11

them and which they are part of. So I

37:14

believe the connections are very important. It

37:16

also may be that the BCCI is

37:18

slightly worried about the power

37:21

of the IPL and clearly

37:23

players, young players coming

37:25

through are looking at that. And

37:27

if their focus then is shifting towards

37:29

white ball cricket, that will be a

37:32

consequence. And I think the BCCI in that

37:34

leaked letter said something like, it's a shift

37:37

we hadn't anticipated. Well, a lot of people

37:39

have been anticipating that shift. So it may

37:41

just reflect on a little bit

37:44

of uncertainty there. If you do that, I've got

37:46

a few things to say really. Make sure you're

37:48

consistent. Once

37:51

you start saying you're not playing first-class cricket,

37:53

I'm not saying they haven't been, but then

37:55

you have to be consistent across the board.

37:57

You can't have one rule where they didn't

37:59

play. can have a few weeks off

38:01

here and there. I was also a

38:03

little bit surprised. I mean, Shreyas Iyer, we

38:05

talked about the World Cup earlier, he had

38:07

a magnificent World Cup. He was smashing it

38:09

everywhere. And white ball cricket is a huge

38:11

part of Indian cricket. You know, there's

38:13

a huge... I think what I was saying, they implied

38:15

that they would get back on

38:17

the contract list as soon as... Yeah,

38:20

the third thing is about,

38:22

I've always looked at Indian

38:24

cricketers and in an

38:26

era of mental health and mental wellbeing,

38:28

the amount of cricket they play. And

38:32

they throw themselves at everything full on.

38:34

And also being an Indian cricketer, it's

38:36

not like you can slip off and

38:38

disappear for a while. You're on show all

38:41

the time, even when you're not playing cricket.

38:43

And I know Shankisham took a break for

38:45

his mental health and his mental

38:47

wellbeing. So you don't want to force players

38:49

into feel like they've got to play. You

38:52

know, Shreyas Iyer played a lot of cricket,

38:55

played the first two test matches, got left

38:57

out of the test side. For

38:59

me, that would be a time just to say, right, I

39:01

need a little bit of a break from the game here.

39:03

So I don't know the rights

39:05

and wrongs of it, but also make sure

39:07

you look after your cricketers, that you're not

39:09

forcing them to play cricket when they may

39:11

need just a little break. Shreyas So

39:14

I'm moving on from Delhi. I have to tell you, I've

39:17

been blown away by Delhi. Incredible.

39:20

The last time England played a test match in Delhi,

39:22

I think was 1985. So it was a long, long

39:26

time ago. And that's really the reason why

39:29

I haven't spent any time in

39:31

this city at all, just kind of popped into the

39:33

odd one day game and popped

39:35

out. So never really had a chance to look

39:37

around. But I've spent the last two

39:40

days being a Tommy Tourist here in Delhi.

39:42

And it's an incredible city, I

39:45

have to say. I mean, I went to

39:47

the Red Fort, the old part of the

39:49

city, which was unbelievable. Humayun's

39:51

Toon, which is a kind of

39:53

15th, 16th century Mughal, magnificent

39:56

piece of Mughal architecture, the

39:58

parks here and. India Gate, it's

40:01

an absolutely stunning city. So that has

40:03

been great fun to kind of get

40:05

acquainted with Delhi for the first time

40:07

after all these years. Yeah. I

40:10

mean, it's nice this time of year as

40:13

well. I'm very

40:15

surprised to see you in Chelsea. I mean, the

40:17

whole world has gone to Jamna Ghar

40:19

as far as I can see for the

40:21

Ambani's pre-wedding. Did you not get your invite?

40:25

I'm just waiting. I saw Rihanna was there.

40:27

Text Rihanna and see if I supposed to

40:29

be there. She got something like six million

40:31

pounds. I mean, I would turn up for

40:33

six quid. Come on, Mr Ambani. I need

40:35

a... You think it is not there

40:37

as far as I can see. Oh,

40:42

I'm really pleased you've had a good week in

40:44

Delhi. When do you fly? I

40:47

fly tomorrow, Tuesday. I

40:50

think England then a practice... Sorry,

40:52

tomorrow, Monday, England are

40:54

practicing Tuesday, Wednesday. If the weather

40:56

is okay. And

40:59

then the test match starts Thursday. So, I mean,

41:02

it's been a long old haul for England. I know there's

41:05

a gap between the World Cup and the test series, but

41:07

they've probably spent the best part of almost

41:10

four months there now. It seems a

41:12

long time since they were playing Bangladesh

41:14

at Dharamshala. So

41:16

this will be their last hurrah. Although

41:18

somebody like Johnny Besto is obviously coming

41:20

for the IPL. So that's

41:22

another long stint for him. The end of March until

41:24

the end of May. And that was the other thing

41:27

that I was thinking about really is just the length

41:29

of the Indian domestic season

41:31

here. We had the World Cup in

41:33

October. The IPL finishes at the end

41:35

of May. That's eight months. And

41:38

that is such an advantage, isn't it? To have eight

41:40

months where you can play cricket in decent weather.

41:43

Whereas we're trying to squeeze in

41:45

four competitions in effectively our summer's what,

41:47

four months. And then you try and

41:49

squeeze it around the edges in April

41:52

and September. And that leads

41:54

to a lot of angst and a

41:56

really congested fixture list. Whereas here

41:58

they can fit it all in. the WPLs

42:00

going on at the moment in Delhi. Randy

42:03

Trophy, is it semi-finals of the Randy

42:05

Trophy? Where are we up to with

42:07

that? Yes, Washington Sundar actually was released

42:09

from the squad to go and play

42:11

for Tamil Nadu, which

42:13

is his state. It's another example of the

42:16

BCI wanting their players to play domestic cricket

42:18

as much as they can. I think they're

42:20

playing a semi-final against Mumbai, and

42:22

I think the Shardul Takur got 100 today

42:26

in that game. So the Randy

42:28

Trophy is bubbling up to its conclusion as well.

42:30

I mean, it's cricket everywhere you look in

42:33

this country, which is not surprising. Our

42:35

friend DK is practicing hard

42:38

ahead of his last hurrah

42:40

in the IPL. So we'll

42:42

have to try and catch up with him during the IPL.

42:45

All right, well, a test match coming Thursday, the

42:47

last one of five. Let's hope for another

42:49

cracker, and I'll see you on

42:51

the other side now. Yeah, don't mention

42:53

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43:23

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