0:01

Due to the nature of this

0:03

case, listener discretion is advised. This

0:05

episode includes discussions of substance use,

0:07

gun violence, and murder. Consider

0:10

this when deciding how and when you'll listen.

0:18

Lee Morgan was a jazz trumpeter.

0:21

A prodigy who rocketed into the

0:23

scene as a 15-year-old kid from

0:26

Philadelphia and proved he had staying

0:28

power. His music and

0:30

legacy endure to this day.

0:33

If you were to draw out the

0:35

shape of Lee's career, it would look

0:38

like two soaring peaks separated by a

0:40

valley. A valley that for

0:42

Lee was marked by addiction. Like

0:44

many other musicians of his

0:47

time, opioid use upended his

0:49

life until heroin took precedence

0:51

over everything he held most

0:53

dear, including music. But

0:55

Lee was one of the lucky ones. He found

0:58

a way out. His life took

1:00

a turn for the better the moment he

1:02

met Helen. The woman who

1:04

loved him, nursed him back to

1:06

health, helped revive his career, and

1:09

then ended his

1:11

life. I'm

1:14

Vanessa Richardson, and this is Serial

1:16

Killers, a Spotify podcast. You can

1:18

find us here every Monday. Be

1:21

sure to check us out on Instagram

1:23

at Serial Killers podcast. We'd

1:25

love to hear from you. If you're listening on

1:27

the Spotify app, swipe up to share your thoughts.

1:32

Stay with us. This

1:41

episode is brought to you by ABC's

1:43

hit drama Will Trent. Special

1:45

Agent Will Trent's strength is observing what

1:47

others don't see, the crucial clues that

1:50

make or break a case. Ramon Rodriguez

1:52

stars as Will Trent, Special Agent from

1:54

the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, using his

1:57

gifts of observation to solve thrilling and

1:59

compelling cases. Week after

2:01

week. Will Trent. Season premiere

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February 20th at 8-7 central

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on ABC and stream on

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Hulu. Tax

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Act can think of a million things more

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fun than filing taxes. Tax

2:14

Act is going to name some now. Sitting

2:17

in traffic. Folding a

2:19

fitted bed sheet. Listening

2:21

to your coworker talk about his fantasy

2:23

team. Digging a hole. Digging

2:26

an even larger hole next to that original

2:28

hole. Unfortunately, Tax Act's

2:30

filing software can't make taxes

2:32

fun. A Tax Act can

2:35

help you get them done. Tax

2:37

Act, let's get them over with. Before

2:43

we get into this story, amongst

2:46

the many sources we used, we

2:48

found Tom Pertrud's book, Lee Morgan.

2:50

His life, music, and culture. Larry

2:53

Rainey Thomas's book, The Lady Who

2:55

Shot Lee Morgan, and the documentary,

2:57

I Called Him Morgan, directed by

2:59

Casper Collins, extremely helpful to our research.

3:07

Why does anyone murder?

3:09

On one side of

3:11

the spectrum, there are serial killers. The cases

3:13

we normally cover every week on this show.

3:16

Their victims are usually strangers, chosen

3:19

because they happen to fit some

3:21

sort of physical profile, or

3:23

because the circumstances were such that they thought they could get

3:25

away with it. Oftentimes,

3:27

the act of committing violence is all

3:29

the reason there is. Today's

3:33

story exists on the complete other

3:35

side of the spectrum. The body

3:37

count may be fewer, but the

3:39

motive is just as difficult to

3:41

comprehend. We

3:45

don't have a name for a killer like

3:47

Helen Moore. It's

3:53

the 1960s. Helen Moore

3:55

lives in Manhattan, between 8th and 9th

3:57

Avenue, in a neighborhood known as Hell's

4:00

kitchen. She's been living in

4:02

New York for years. She moved from North

4:04

Carolina back in 1945

4:06

after her first husband

4:08

unexpectedly died. She

4:10

traveled to the city to visit her in-laws after

4:12

his funeral, expecting to stay for no

4:15

more than two weeks, but she

4:17

never left. She found work

4:19

as a telephone operator by day and

4:22

community within New York's music scene

4:24

at night. She's become

4:26

a regular face at many of the city's jazz

4:28

clubs, like Birdland, which is just a

4:30

short walk from her apartment on 53rd

4:32

Street. It seems like everyone

4:35

knows her sharp tongue and quick

4:37

wit. Though Helen presents

4:39

a tough exterior, she's a

4:41

nurturer by nature. Her home is

4:44

something of a safe haven for the city's queer

4:46

and black communities and a

4:48

watering hole for its musicians. People

4:51

are people, she says, and she welcomes

4:53

them all to drop by her place

4:55

unannounced if they're ever between sets or

4:57

simply looking for some good food, good

5:00

music, and a good time. It's

5:04

the winter of 1967 when Helen opens her front

5:09

door to Benny Green, a friend

5:11

and jazz trombonist, and another

5:13

man standing behind him. The

5:15

man's young in his late 20s and he looks

5:18

to be down on his luck. He's

5:20

missing a few teeth and despite

5:22

the freezing temperatures outside has no

5:25

coat on. Benny says

5:27

his name is Lee Morgan.

5:30

Helen recognizes Lee. She's seen him

5:32

around her place before, but

5:34

there's something about him standing there

5:36

that stirs something inside Helen. Her

5:39

heart can't help but go out to him. She

5:42

asks Lee what happened to his coat and,

5:45

after learning he's a musician who no longer

5:47

owns an instrument, asks what happened

5:49

to his trumpet too. Lee's

5:52

honest with her. He says he pawned

5:54

both to pay for drugs. Before

5:57

the night's over, Helen offers to help get

5:59

both. back, and

6:01

so begins the most consequential

6:04

relationship of their lives. Helen's

6:08

13 years older than Lee. What

6:11

starts as a maternal relationship

6:13

turns physical and eventually evolves

6:15

into something more, a

6:18

mutual love, verging on

6:20

a mutual dependency. Lee's

6:25

talents had always been undeniable. Starting

6:28

as a pianist and then picking

6:30

up the trumpet at 15, he

6:32

began making music with legends like

6:34

Art Blakey and John Coltrane straight

6:36

out of high school. He toured the

6:38

country with Blakey's acclaimed band,

6:40

The Jazz Messengers, and not

6:42

long after, heroin entered the

6:44

picture. At the

6:46

time, misconceptions about the use of

6:48

narcotics and opioids ran rampant in

6:51

jazz circles. Many musicians

6:53

look to heroin as a way to

6:55

amplify their creativity, including some

6:57

of the most successful, like

6:59

Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, Dizzy

7:01

Gillespie, and Cab Calloway. Interviews

7:04

with contemporary musicians in Thomas Pertrude's

7:07

book Lee Morgan, His Life, Music,

7:09

and Culture, claim opioid use was

7:11

so normalized that Art Blakey would

7:14

often pay his bandmates in drugs

7:16

and pocket the cash paid by

7:18

the venues. Even though

7:20

Lee's struggles with addiction overlapped with

7:23

some career highs, like composing his

7:25

biggest hit ever, The Sidewinder, heroin

7:28

eventually brought his musical ambitions

7:30

to a standstill. His

7:33

bandmates couldn't rely on him anymore. They never

7:35

knew if he would show up to rehearsals

7:37

or gigs, and if he did, whether he'd

7:40

be sober. Life for

7:42

Lee got so bad that he started

7:44

sleeping on pool tables in bars or

7:46

on curbs outside of clubs without shoes

7:49

on. On one occasion, Lee

7:51

showed up to rehearsal with a bandage wrapped around

7:53

his head, and when his bandmates

7:55

asked about it, he shrugged off their

7:57

concern. Lee had overdosed.

8:00

and fallen asleep with the sight of his

8:02

head pressed against the hot metal of a

8:04

radiator. The hair never grew

8:06

back, and he lived with the scar

8:08

for the rest of his life. After

8:13

that night in 1967, Helen

8:15

becomes determined to get Lee's

8:17

career back on track. He

8:19

begins staying at her place in

8:21

Hell's Kitchen, and before long, they're

8:24

inseparable. Basically everywhere Lee

8:26

goes, Helen's right there beside him,

8:28

carrying his trumpet, keeping him in

8:30

line. Helen says in

8:32

no uncertain terms she took control

8:35

of him. Though they

8:37

never officially marry, she starts introducing

8:39

herself as Lee's wife. Helen

8:42

pays for Lee to attend an outpatient

8:44

rehabilitation program. She even moves with him

8:46

to the Bronx to be closer to

8:49

the clinic. Lee's tried rehab

8:51

before, but through no lack of

8:53

trying, it didn't stick. This

8:56

time though, with Helen's support, he's

8:58

able to combat his addiction with

9:00

the help of methadone, a synthetic

9:02

drug that targets the same receptors

9:04

as opioids like heroin, without delivering

9:06

the euphoric high. Beginning

9:08

in the 60s, doctors use it to

9:10

reduce withdrawal symptoms while weaning patients

9:13

off narcotics. It's slower

9:15

acting than other opioids, but still

9:17

addictive and should only be used

9:19

with medical oversight. Lee's

9:22

able to make the switch from heroin

9:24

to methadone, but by some accounts he

9:26

trades one addiction for another and

9:29

another. Friends claim he

9:32

goes on to keep his refrigerator

9:34

stocked with methadone, which he uses

9:36

to self-medicate, and he reportedly also

9:38

picks up a cocaine habit. While

9:41

it's not the ideal outcome, the

9:43

changes help Lee refocus on music. His

9:45

old friends are quick to welcome him

9:48

back, and Helen takes on

9:50

a new role in Lee's life, his

9:53

manager. She

9:56

books his gigs, sits in on

9:58

rehearsals, collects his payments, and

10:00

negotiates his contracts for him. As

10:03

she does, Lee throws his energy

10:05

into creating a new sound. He

10:07

picks up the flugelhorn and experiments

10:09

with new tones, rhythms, and arrangements.

10:12

By the summer of 69, his band

10:14

embarks on a tour across the

10:17

United States and records a live

10:19

album at the Lighthouse Cafe in

10:21

California. After finding it

10:23

difficult to book larger venues, Lee

10:25

becomes more outspoken. He adds his

10:27

voice to the Jazz and People's

10:29

Movement, an offshoot of the Civil

10:31

Rights Movement advocating for more representation

10:33

for black musicians on TV. According

10:37

to Stuart Nicholson's reporting for

10:39

JazzWise magazine, Lee's fight is

10:41

aided by Helen. She hosts dinner

10:43

parties for all kinds of musicians

10:45

and showbiz personalities, people

10:48

who could theoretically help elevate

10:50

Lee's career. As

10:52

Lee's star continues to rise

10:54

from the ashes, he begins to

10:56

crave more independence in his

10:58

personal life. Friends

11:02

notice a shift in their relationship.

11:04

After years of love and devotion,

11:06

Lee and Helen begin getting into

11:08

hostile fights. On one occasion,

11:11

a friend recalls Lee dumping a bottle

11:13

of champagne over Helen's head and shouting

11:15

at her to get out. Lee

11:18

stops going back to their apartment,

11:20

sometimes for days at a time.

11:22

It's not long before Helen learns he's

11:25

seeing other women, younger

11:27

women, closer to his age. For

11:30

Helen, the cheating feels like an affront

11:32

to everything she's done. But

11:35

she can't bring herself to leave. So

11:38

not knowing what else to do, she

11:40

looks the other way until

11:43

she can't anymore. It's

11:54

February 1972. Helen

11:57

Moore confronts the man she shared a

12:00

life with for over five years,

12:02

Lee Morgan. She knows

12:04

about his cheating and she tells him she

12:06

can't live like this. It's not who she

12:08

is. She says she's taking

12:10

a trip to Chicago on her own to get

12:13

away. But Lee tells her not

12:15

to. He asks her to stay,

12:17

so she does. She's

12:19

in the city on February 18th

12:21

when a snowstorm hits New York.

12:25

That evening, Lee's having dinner with a young

12:27

woman he's been seeing, Judith

12:29

Johnson. They finish eating and

12:31

Judith tells Lee that she has to drive home

12:33

to Jersey. She doesn't want to get stuck in

12:35

the snow. Lee asks if she

12:38

can drive him up to the Bronx. He has to

12:40

pick up his horn for a gig that Helen booked

12:42

for the band. Judith agrees,

12:44

but along the way they get stuck

12:46

in the storm. Judith's car

12:49

hits a slick spot on the road

12:51

and they get into an accident. The

12:53

car gets totaled, but luckily they don't

12:55

get hurt and they're close enough to

12:57

walk to Lee's apartment. When

12:59

they arrive, Lee goes upstairs, barely speaks

13:02

to Helen and is back downstairs

13:04

with his horn in no time.

13:07

By Judith's estimation, there's already four to five

13:09

inches of snow on the ground, but Lee

13:12

insists he needs to get to his set.

13:14

He's done letting his band down, so they

13:16

call a cab and head to the venue,

13:19

slug saloon in the East Village. Judith

13:21

doesn't plan to stay long. She

13:24

tells Lee she still has to get back to

13:26

Jersey. Back at

13:28

the apartment, Helen's mostly alone with her

13:30

thoughts. She knows Lee's up

13:32

to something. She once caught him kissing

13:35

one woman and heard through the jazz

13:37

grapevine that he was seriously involved with

13:39

another young woman, not knowing they

13:41

were referring to Judith. Waiting

13:44

there, Helen says something comes over

13:46

her. Though she hadn't been

13:48

to the clubs at all that week, she decides

13:50

to pay a visit to slugs to see Lee's

13:53

set that night. At some

13:55

point, she tells a friend about her

13:57

plan, and that friend begs her not

13:59

to go. But

14:01

Helen doesn't listen. She

14:04

gets dressed, puts her keys and wallet in

14:06

her purse, and, as she's

14:08

headed out the door, catches sight

14:10

of the silver-plated handgun Lee

14:12

purchased for her protection. She

14:15

drops that in the bag, too. Meanwhile,

14:19

Lee arrives late to his set at

14:22

Slugs, still a little shaken from the

14:24

storm and the accident. According

14:26

to one bandmate, his nerves are

14:28

so fried he throws up before he

14:31

hits the stage, but it

14:33

doesn't affect his playing. Lee

14:35

blares solo after solo, as in control

14:37

of his gift as he ever was.

14:40

The club is emptier than usual, but there's

14:42

still a crowd and sawdust on the

14:45

floor to soak up spilled drinks, the

14:47

rooms filled with laughter, shouting,

14:50

applause, and music.

14:53

Then just as the band's midnight

14:55

set winds down, the front

14:58

door of Slugs swings open, and

15:00

Lee sees Helen silhouetted in the

15:03

doorframe, her oversized hat unmistakable

15:05

even in the dim light.

15:09

Helen takes a seat with a friend, waiting

15:11

for Lee to finish, but when

15:13

the band takes their break, Lee

15:15

doesn't greet her. Instead, he

15:18

makes his way to where Judith

15:20

is sitting and begins flirting. Right

15:22

there, out in the open. I

15:25

rate Helen walks to Lee's bandmates at

15:27

the bar and asks them to intervene

15:29

on her behalf. She wants

15:31

Lee to send Judith home, but

15:34

Lee makes it clear he's unwilling

15:36

to cooperate. So Helen

15:38

storms the front row where Lee and Judith

15:40

are waiting. Judith is surprised

15:42

to see Helen. She's under the

15:44

impression that Lee and Helen's relationship has ended,

15:47

and yet here she is accusing Lee

15:49

of cheating and Judith of being the

15:52

other woman. The fight between

15:54

Helen and Lee reaches a climax when

15:56

Helen asks Lee to tell the truth,

15:59

and Lee shouts, loud enough for all

16:01

to hear that he's not with Helen

16:03

anymore. Their

16:05

relationship is over. As

16:09

the denial echoes through the bar,

16:11

Helen strikes Lee across the face.

16:14

Whether it happens out of reflex or anger,

16:16

Helen's not sure. She just says

16:18

it feels good to hear the sound of

16:21

her hand coming in contact with his face.

16:24

But tempers continue to escalate. Others

16:26

of the crowd watch Lee push Helen

16:29

to the front door and throw her

16:31

onto the sidewalk outside. She

16:33

falls into a pile of

16:35

fresh snow, cold, wet, angry,

16:37

and embarrassed. And by the time

16:40

she gets to her feet, Lee's nowhere

16:42

in sight. Presumably

16:46

he never sees Helen's purse come

16:48

loose, the gun slide out of

16:50

it, or Helen pick it

16:52

up off the sidewalk. Back

16:55

inside, one of Lee's bandmates notices

16:57

Helen's missing her coat. He

17:00

and his girlfriend are about to give it to her

17:02

when she re-enters the bar. They

17:04

watch Helen move through the crowd,

17:06

not knowing her hand is gripping

17:08

a gun inside her purse. Lee

17:11

and his band are about to start

17:13

another set. The beginning of the song,

17:16

Angela, plays in honor of the civil

17:18

rights leader, Angela Davis. According

17:20

to Helen, she doesn't register much of

17:22

what's happening around her. She's

17:24

just focused on Lee, who doesn't

17:27

see her. He's turned the other way.

17:30

She catches flashes of faces and

17:32

registers the buzz of voices. But

17:34

all she sees is Lee, until

17:37

she's standing right behind him.

17:40

She taps him on the shoulder. He turns

17:42

around. And what she remembers

17:44

most from the moment is the rage

17:46

in his eyes, rage directed

17:49

at her. She

17:52

takes the gun and points it in his

17:54

direction. And though he tried to grab

17:56

the weapon from her hands, he's too

17:58

late. She

18:00

pulls the trigger. The

18:04

sound cuts through the noise of the crowd.

18:06

At first, people aren't sure what

18:08

happened, but it quickly

18:11

becomes clear. As

18:13

for Helen's reaction after the

18:16

gunshot, accounts differ. According

18:18

to Helen, the composure she'd been

18:20

holding throughout the night falls apart

18:22

the moment Lee hits the floor. She

18:25

instantly regrets her actions. Tears

18:28

stream down her face as she tells

18:30

Lee how sorry she is over and

18:32

over. She

18:34

can't believe what she's done. It

18:37

all feels like a dream she'll wake up

18:39

from soon enough. Helen

18:42

says Lee apologizes too. As

18:44

she kneels over his body, which is

18:46

lying outstretched on the sawdust covered floor,

18:49

he forgives her. He

18:51

says, I'm sorry too, Helen. I

18:54

know you didn't mean to do

18:56

this. Others don't

18:58

remember the apologies, just Helen screaming

19:00

as Lee bleeds out on the

19:02

floor, why did you make me

19:05

do this? Lee

19:07

Morgan doesn't die instantly. Thanks

19:10

to the snowstorm that night, it takes almost

19:12

an hour for an ambulance to reach

19:14

slug saloon. Had it been

19:16

a clear night, some believe he might

19:18

have lived. But when

19:21

the 33-year-old musician reaches the

19:23

hospital, he's pronounced dead on

19:25

arrival. And as a

19:28

result of that night, the jazz

19:30

community loses not one legend, but

19:32

two. Helen all

19:34

but disappears, never to

19:36

show her face in New York again.

19:51

On February 25th, 1972, friends,

19:55

family, and jazz lovers from all

19:57

over descend on the Church of

19:59

the Advocate. pay respect to Lee

20:01

Morgan. The crowds last all

20:03

day. At night, more

20:06

than a thousand people pack into the

20:08

church for the funeral. The

20:10

shock is palpable, and so is

20:12

the grief. Friends and family

20:15

tearfully share poems and memories

20:17

while some of the world's

20:19

greatest living musicians honor Lee

20:21

in song. It's

20:23

a bleak day. The jazz

20:25

community had lost its prodigal

20:27

son after he'd just returned

20:29

stronger than ever. Meanwhile,

20:32

Helen Moore sits in a

20:34

jail cell on Rikers Island

20:36

awaiting trial. According to

20:38

her, life after pulling that trigger

20:41

feels like a dream. Nothing

20:43

feels real, and that's maybe

20:45

how in the face of all

20:47

evidence, her lawyer convinces her to

20:49

plead not guilty to murder charges.

20:52

Even though she knows better, she

20:55

killed the person she loved most

20:57

in the world. She was

20:59

there, and so were

21:01

countless witnesses. Adding

21:03

insult to injury before the

21:05

trial starts, Helen fires that

21:08

same lawyer after he only

21:10

visits her once in the weeks leading up to

21:12

the trial, which essentially leaves

21:14

her on her own. Helen

21:17

is ultimately convicted of second-degree

21:20

manslaughter and sentenced to

21:22

a prison term. She reportedly

21:24

serves two years before she's released

21:26

on probation. And

21:28

then she all but disappears

21:30

from public life. Around

21:37

1974 or 1975, when she gets out of prison, she leaves

21:39

the city without saying goodbye

21:44

to the community she loved so

21:46

much. She packs her

21:48

bags and leaves the lights, noise,

21:51

and music of New York behind

21:53

and goes back to North Carolina,

21:55

where she was raised. Little

21:57

is known about Helen's life before Rikers Island.

22:00

in New York, but what we do

22:02

know tells the story of a difficult

22:04

life, likely filled with abuse. She

22:07

was born in 1926 on

22:10

a small farm near Shalote, North

22:12

Carolina. She had her first child

22:14

at only 13 years old and

22:16

her second at 14. At 17, she married a 39-year-old bootlegger.

22:23

The circumstances of their marriage are

22:25

unknown, but two years

22:27

into their relationship, he died of

22:29

an accidental drowning, and she arrived

22:31

in New York shortly thereafter. Following

22:36

Lee's murder and Helen leaving New

22:38

York, she ends up in Wilmington,

22:40

North Carolina, not far from where

22:42

she was raised. To keep

22:44

her mind busy, she takes care of her

22:46

aging mother and gets involved in a local

22:49

church. She finds a new

22:51

community, different mouths to feed,

22:54

but her love of jazz never

22:56

fades, and according to family, her

22:58

actions that night in 1972 haunt

23:02

her for the rest of her life.

23:05

But she never talks about it. Then,

23:08

one day in 1988, Helen enrolls

23:11

in a night class at Shaw

23:13

University. Helen's in her

23:15

early 60s. The course is taught

23:18

by a jazz aficionado and radio

23:20

announcer named Larry Rainey Thomas.

23:23

Larry begins one lecture by passing

23:25

out his bio, and as Larry

23:27

hands Helen a slip of paper,

23:29

Helen mentions that she loves jazz.

23:32

In fact, she says, her husband

23:34

was a jazz musician. For

23:37

obvious reasons, this interests Larry, and

23:39

a smile comes over Helen's face

23:41

as she tells him her husband's

23:44

name. Lee. Lee

23:46

Morgan, she says. Larry

23:49

is stunned. He knows he's standing

23:51

in front of the woman who

23:53

killed one of jazz's greatest musicians.

23:56

Naturally, he asks if he can

23:58

interview her. She turns down

24:00

in the moment, but eight years

24:02

later, Larry receives an unexpected phone

24:05

call. It's Helen. She's

24:07

finally ready to give her side of

24:09

the story. And Larry

24:11

captures it all on tape. Segments

24:16

of the audio that Larry Rainey Thomas

24:18

captured are later included in the

24:20

award-winning documentary, I Called Him

24:22

Morgan. For the film,

24:24

director Kasper Collin interviewed many of

24:26

Lee's friends and fellow musicians. They

24:29

talk about how shattered they felt after

24:31

Lee's death, not only because their friend

24:33

was gone, but because Helen had been

24:36

the cause. Benny

24:38

Mopin was in San Francisco recording

24:41

with band leader Herbie Hancock when

24:43

he got the call that Lee was dead and

24:45

Helen was his killer. He

24:48

says he could barely reconcile his new

24:50

reality. Helen was warm,

24:52

loving, and compassionate. How

24:55

could she have done it? Why

24:57

would she kill the person she loved

24:59

most in the world? Even

25:02

Helen didn't have that answer. In the

25:04

interview with Larry, she offered a lot

25:06

of regret, but little in the way

25:08

of motive. In the heat of

25:11

the moment, she said, she lost it.

25:14

Larry planned a follow-up interview, but

25:16

Helen died in February 1996, just

25:20

one month later. She

25:23

took with her any chance of getting

25:25

more answers, leaving Lee's friends to fill

25:27

in the gaps for themselves. It

25:30

took years, Benny says, but he

25:32

ultimately forgave Helen for what she

25:34

had done. He blamed the

25:36

incident on a reaction to something dark in

25:39

her past. As he put it, that

25:42

was temporary insanity. When

25:44

she killed him, she

25:46

killed herself. Thanks

25:57

for listening to Serial Killers, a Spotify

26:00

podcast. We're here with a new episode

26:02

every Monday. Be sure to check us

26:04

out on Instagram at Serial Killers Podcast.

26:06

And we'd love to hear from you,

26:08

so if you're listening on the Spotify

26:10

app, swipe up and give us your

26:12

thoughts. Stay

26:15

safe out there. Serial

26:18

Killers is a Spotify podcast. This

26:20

episode was written by Molly Quinlan,

26:22

edited by Connor Sampson and Maggie

26:24

Admire, researched by Mickey Taylor and

26:27

Chelsea Wood, fact-checked by Adriana Romero

26:29

and Laurie Segal and sound-designed by

26:31

Alex Button. Our head of programming

26:34

is Julian Borro, our head of

26:36

production is Nick Johnson and Spencer

26:39

Howard is our post-production supervisor.

26:42

I'm your host, Vanessa Richardson.