0:01

Due. To the nature of this

0:04

killers crimes, listener discretion is

0:06

advised. This episode includes discussions

0:08

of rape, torture, kidnapping, murder,

0:10

and suicide. Consider this when

0:12

deciding how and when you'll

0:14

listen. If. You or

0:17

someone you know is

0:19

feeling hopeless are struggling

0:21

emotionally. Visit spotify.com/resources for

0:23

help. I

0:27

know as time goes by the

0:29

longer analysis the longer the investigation

0:31

goes on your going to keep

0:34

things you're gonna start to connect

0:36

dots. I'm. Only going

0:38

give you the dots that I

0:40

know you're going eventually connect. That's

0:43

his real keys. Speaking with the

0:45

F B I in April two

0:48

thousand and twelve more than a

0:50

decade later, we still don't know

0:52

how many dots there are. I'm

0:55

Vanessa Richardson and this is Serial Killers

0:58

a spot. If I podcast you can

1:00

find us here every Monday. Be sure

1:02

to check us out on Instagram at

1:04

Serial Killers Podcast and we'd love to

1:06

hear from you. So if you're listening

1:08

on the spot, if I am, swipe

1:10

up and give us your thoughts. This

1:12

is part two. Of our three part

1:14

series on Israel Keys last time

1:17

Israel was arrested for the abduction

1:19

and murder of Samantha Koenig. He's

1:21

now and F B I custody

1:23

and he has a lot more

1:25

to say. Stay

1:27

with us. Fussing,

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Wireless. Before.

2:51

We get into this story amongst

2:54

many sources we used. We found

2:56

the book American Predator by Maureen

2:58

Callahan. add our interview with Josh

3:00

Hallmark host of True Crime bullshit

3:02

Extremely helpful. Do our research, The

3:04

audio book edition of American Predator is

3:07

available for Spotify premium. Subscribers in our

3:09

audio book catalogs where you can check

3:11

it out after listening to this episode.

3:18

Over. The course of six months

3:20

in two thousand and twelve,

3:22

Israel Keys sits down with

3:24

the F B I about

3:26

twenty times they are recorded,

3:29

interviews produce between forty to

3:31

sixty hours of keep. After

3:33

confessing to Samantha Conics murder

3:35

is Real begins toying with

3:37

investigators. He says he has

3:39

more stories to tell and

3:41

more cards to play. but

3:43

in all their time together

3:45

is only gives officials. The

3:47

names of to other victims:

3:49

a married couple named Lorraine

3:51

and Bill Courier from Vermont.

3:54

Lorraine. And Bill Career were a Middle

3:57

East couple you'll remember just Hallmark from

3:59

our lives. The episode. He's been

4:01

reporting on Israel Keys for more than

4:03

a decade. They. Just for

4:05

regular people. They don't

4:08

have kids. They were described as

4:10

quiet. They didn't have a huge

4:12

social network or a lot of

4:14

friends. Bills spent a lot of

4:17

time on mine Lorraine. Had

4:19

some pretty strong political views

4:21

that by all accounts there's

4:23

a slick, pretty quiet people

4:25

who were no great employees

4:27

who. Have lived a.

4:30

Mundane. Unexciting. least. That.

4:33

Is until one day they disappeared

4:36

from their home and Sx. It's

4:38

a small bedroom communities. You know

4:40

there's some big box stores. It's

4:43

just off several. Major

4:45

highways I guess in Vermont

4:47

speak essence. But yeah, it's

4:49

like a wooded area on

4:51

the outskirts of the Burlington

4:53

suburbs. Shortly. After midnight

4:55

on June ninth, two thousand and

4:57

Eleven, Israel walks from his hotel

4:59

room down the road. Through the

5:01

dark according to Israel is looking

5:03

for the right home. Josh

5:06

says specifically a one storey. House

5:08

with a garage attached. No signs

5:10

of kids are a dog. That's

5:13

how he ends up at the careers

5:15

place. They just so happened to Citadel.

5:18

He cuts their phone line and then waits

5:20

in their backyard. For the right moment

5:23

to strike. Is a neighbor

5:25

next door who keeps going outside

5:27

to smoke cigarettes, triggering an automatic

5:29

light sensor. Israel smokes cigars as

5:31

he waits for the neighbor to

5:33

go to bed, which finally happens

5:36

around two am. Israel's.

5:39

Dressed in all black, he wears

5:41

a headlamp, leather gloves, and a

5:43

backpack. He ties a class to

5:46

hide the lower. Part of his

5:48

face then begins what he calls.

5:50

A. Blitz attack. He.

5:54

Broke. Into their garage and then when he

5:56

sells it receive he broke through the glass

5:58

that connect the garage to the the house

6:00

and. Ran an when he

6:03

turns. On his headlamp, he's standing

6:05

in their kitchen. He races down a

6:07

hallway, past a bird cage with a

6:09

cover on it, into Bill and The

6:12

Reins bedroom. Them. He's pretty

6:14

quickly subdued them and zip

6:16

tied them and started ransacking

6:18

warehouse. Israel says it only

6:20

takes a matter of seconds. By

6:22

the time he sniffed Bill in

6:24

the rain, are still waking up,

6:27

still adjusting to their new realities

6:29

that there's a tall, masked intruder

6:31

in their house pointing a gun

6:33

in their direction. Israel

6:35

asked the careers that they own a

6:37

firearm. Lorraine. Says yes, There's

6:39

a loaded handgun in her nightstand. He

6:41

takes it and orders Dylan the Rain

6:44

to get on their stomachs. He.

6:46

Asks them what else they have in the house. Things.

6:49

He wants. He grabs two suitcases

6:51

and still them with prescription drugs,

6:53

jewelry, the courier's A T M

6:55

cards. He edges their pin number

6:57

into the back of their cards

7:00

so he can remember them later.

7:02

At some point Marine tries to

7:05

run away by rolling herself off

7:07

the bed. It makes Israel upset.

7:09

They're not taking him seriously.

7:13

says. That he starts going through their stuff

7:15

to get an idea of who they are,

7:17

know where they were. Would anyone be looking

7:19

for them? Israel. Recognizes a

7:21

military insignia Bill has in his

7:24

home evidence that Bill served in

7:26

the same unit as Israel. The

7:28

Twenty Fifth Infantry. Division: Israel

7:30

Less Bill Know. She's

7:32

a military man to. After

7:35

about fifteen minutes go by. Israel

7:37

has the careers put on slippers

7:39

he doesn't want them stepping on

7:41

broken glass and leaving a trail

7:43

of blood through the house. And

7:46

a pretty quickly gets them

7:48

into their car and. Starts.

7:50

Driving them to a farmhouse about two

7:53

miles away receives state out the day

7:55

before an abandoned farmhouse On the drive

7:57

over bill in the rain try to

7:59

run these and with Israel. They

8:01

kept saying like you have the wrong people

8:03

We all have any money. When we don't

8:06

know anyone, there's no reason we should be

8:08

abducted for ransom. They tell Israel

8:10

he can take what little they have

8:12

if he just lets them go there.

8:14

Car savings all of it and they

8:17

won't tell anyone either. They. Won't

8:19

call the police. Bill they explain

8:21

has medications he needs to take.

8:24

Israel. Tells them not to worry,

8:27

he's abducting them for ransom. He's

8:29

bringing them to a drop house

8:31

where some accomplices are waiting. They

8:33

won't be hurt. His and

8:35

cooperate. They

8:39

arrive at the farmhouse around four am.

8:41

Passing a police car parked about a

8:43

hundred feet away, there's a for sale

8:45

sign in the front yard. The house

8:48

is set back from the road on

8:50

a hill partially hidden by a tree.

8:52

It's old and run down. A

8:54

large hole runs through the roof and

8:57

second for. Allowing moonlight into the

8:59

living room. The walls or

9:01

maybe stucco were plaster covered

9:03

and dated wallpaper. There's not

9:05

much by way of furniture.

9:07

And old three cushion couch, couple

9:09

of their mattresses on bed frames.

9:12

In addition to the rain and

9:14

Bill Israel brings a propane stove

9:16

to the house. Should. Search

9:19

Bill. And first, don't let him

9:21

down into houses basement where he

9:23

zip tied him to a chair.

9:26

When. It came out the rain, had

9:28

freed ourselves and was running down the

9:31

street screaming. Israel sprints after her. He

9:33

tackles or to the ground and drags

9:35

her back to the farmhouse. The

9:37

escape attempt makes him mad. She.

9:40

Had laid out a mattress upstairs

9:42

and the farmhouse and tied her

9:44

up. When. He went back

9:46

downstairs. Bill had free themselves things. Turn

9:49

physical as Bills fights back. Bill

9:51

actually manages to shove Israel a

9:53

bit and Israel's not sure how

9:55

to handle it as Israel tells

9:57

the F B I. he had

9:59

a very. The pacific idea of

10:01

how the night was supposed to

10:03

go and Bill was ruining at.

10:06

Israel has to bludgeon bill with

10:08

a shovel more than once to

10:10

knock him down. And

10:12

this is kind of. V.

10:14

Pattern for that whole night he would

10:16

go back up and began sexually assaulting

10:19

the rain and then here Bill for

10:21

himself. again go back downstairs hi Bill

10:23

up and this went on and on

10:26

until eventually he went down and had

10:28

been so frustrated by shot him with.

10:31

Round Magazine. The bullets hit

10:33

villain his arm, chest, neck,

10:35

and head, but he still

10:37

standing afterward. Israel says he's

10:40

never seen anything like it.

10:42

Then he watches Bill stall

10:44

to the ground. Dad.

10:47

Tee shot him I think five times

10:49

with a silencer so he doesn't think

10:52

for a new it had happened and

10:54

then went back upstairs and. Or.

10:58

Where. He.

11:01

Strangles the rain with a rope

11:03

is preferred. Method of killing. But

11:05

before he does, he brings her

11:07

downstairs so she can see her

11:10

husband's grisly. Murder scene. Israel.

11:13

Poor's drain over. Their hands

11:15

and say says, puts them in trash

11:17

bags and leave them in a corner

11:19

of the basement. She'd planned to burn

11:22

the house down using the propane stove

11:24

he brought, but there's no time. the

11:26

sun's already up. So.

11:29

He takes what he can, forgetting the

11:31

ammo. Shells on the floor and

11:33

drives away. She leaves their car,

11:35

a green Saturn in a parking

11:37

lot. About a mile from their

11:39

home, he parks away from any

11:41

surveillance cameras, lox to his own

11:44

car and believes the state. Israel.

11:47

Says the whole night. From start

11:49

to finish his over in

11:51

about six hours. In.

11:54

His interviews, Israel talks, About

11:56

the courier's murders in graphic detail,

11:58

You can hear that. The been

12:00

Josh his podcast True Crime

12:02

Bullshit. It's killing to listen

12:05

to. Josh describes Israel's. Demeanor

12:07

during the confession. Late.

12:09

She's reading. The.

12:12

Newspaper. Or probably not

12:14

even that much emotion like is reading lighter.

12:17

West. Elm catalogues as though it was

12:19

just like some. Mundane.

12:22

Task and a litany of tasks that I

12:24

had to do that weekend. He laughs a

12:27

few times. He talks about how he was

12:29

really good to the rain and you wanted

12:31

to make sure she was comparable. Israel.

12:35

Tell Cspi about the courier's

12:37

murderous because in his. Mind still

12:39

going to connect the dots anyway? He

12:42

made mistakes. He didn't burn the

12:44

house down with their bodies. And

12:46

as he left behind pools of bills

12:48

blood as well as those ammo shells

12:50

is he's going down. he might as

12:53

well get something out of it. In

12:56

exchange for his confession F

12:58

B I agents good Israel

13:00

a cigar to smoke. From

13:03

his behavior of it's clear

13:05

Israel still feels. In

13:07

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13:12

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The mistakes Israel made. With the

14:25

courier's. Their keys hasn't quite been

14:27

resolved in the way you might

14:29

expect. No one it seems entered

14:31

the abandoned farmhouse after that night.

14:33

By the time the F B

14:35

I arrived, it had been demolished.

14:38

They. Talk to the demolition team The

14:40

said you know they didn't take anything

14:42

out of the house but when they

14:44

started to demo ing, processor said it

14:46

smelled like to turn. They remember the

14:48

smell distinctly, but it wouldn't have been

14:51

unusual for a small injured animal to

14:53

wander inside and die. Within

14:55

the F B I tracked all

14:57

the rubble to a landfill and

14:59

they spend I believe eight weeks.

15:02

Going. Through the landfill looking for

15:04

evidence they found a few bones

15:06

and some hair and in it

15:09

where the farmhouse was they found

15:11

glasses that they are fairly certain

15:13

or bill careers the F B.

15:15

I is confident Israel was responsible

15:17

for their deaths. She's. New

15:19

enough information about them, about items

15:21

in their home, items in their

15:23

garage doors, glasses at the site

15:25

that it is without a shadow

15:28

without cheese who abducted and kill

15:30

them that the courier's themselves have

15:32

never been recovered. Israel was wrong.

15:34

The. As. The I might never

15:36

have connected him to the courier's

15:38

murders is he didn't concerts And

15:41

once that realization sinks in, Israel

15:43

becomes less willing to talk. He

15:45

only discuss is a handful of

15:48

his other crimes in any detail.

15:50

He stopped short of discussing anymore

15:52

killings but the F B I

15:55

beat him with more presence like

15:57

candy bars. Americanos acts.

16:00

To the Internet. And it's according

16:02

to Maureen Callahan, the author of

16:04

American Predator, a subscription to the

16:07

New York Times delivered to his

16:09

cell daily. In

16:11

July, two thousand and Twelve

16:13

after a few months spent

16:15

in the Alaskan Penitentiary Is

16:17

Real opens up about his

16:19

first ever attempted murder. She.

16:24

Was living in Mop in

16:26

Oregon at the time, and

16:28

so was his family. She

16:30

was eighteen or nineteen and

16:32

grappling with violent urges and

16:34

existential thoughts. He wasn't connecting

16:36

with his family's religious practices.

16:38

Given his inner demons what

16:40

he'd later call his black

16:42

heart, he thought he might

16:44

identify with Satanism. It. Eventually

16:46

go so far as to branded

16:48

upside down cross on his chest

16:50

and tattoo a pentagram on the

16:52

back of his neck. But that

16:54

summer he selects a location along

16:56

the To Shoots River for his

16:58

first ever see Tannic Ritual. Of

17:02

as low as As and where's

17:04

the door. Arrest

17:09

or lives fairly soon. Be

17:11

on. A. A

17:14

small Boston. Or

17:16

months. He probably likes of

17:18

me wants years of them like one

17:20

is it for service, campgrounds, big tanks

17:23

and as. I was waiting

17:25

for. Someone. Who is pretty small

17:27

to have been in? Don't condone. Mccain.

17:31

Is really dark games thousand for women

17:34

and from. Israel

17:38

knows that area of Oregon well

17:40

as family visits the river. Awesome!

17:42

He staked out the bathroom ahead

17:45

of time. On this particular day

17:47

he sees a young girl. Playing

17:49

in the river trailing behind

17:51

her friends Israel hides. In

17:54

some bushes near band once the

17:56

girl's friends turned the corner and

17:58

disappear from site T li. Shout

18:00

and grabs her. The girls white

18:02

dirty blonde he thinks anywhere from

18:04

fourteen to eighteen. He tells the

18:07

F B I he had everything

18:09

planned out. He brings ropes and

18:11

knives. He says he was really

18:13

into knives at the time. Goes

18:17

begin by for years. Without.

18:22

Ever actually thought I would do it

18:24

isn't. The.

18:28

So west area where I grew out of them.

18:31

Was. A new area it seems a

18:33

lot more feasible. The speeches. Or.

18:36

My nobody knew strangers.

18:39

Family. Situation

18:43

where it. Really

18:46

easy. Israel

18:49

makes. Use of the nazi learned

18:51

growing up building. Rafts and bridges

18:53

in the woods alone. But he

18:56

doesn't. As he puts it, take

18:58

it to the next level. He's

19:00

to disarmed. By the girls behavior.

19:03

Three. Hours and everything was weird. What?

19:05

Was her reality? Maybe

19:08

she'll either had something like that.

19:11

Happen I thought about what should we

19:13

do as she doesn't seem. Like

19:16

everybody else I took always

19:18

seem. Completely surprised,

19:20

like been expected that

19:23

they never. thought

19:25

of scenario like with their

19:27

and. With. Her is insane.

19:30

My thoughts: English nice and new

19:32

Let's say and stuff. And

19:35

so she was scared of

19:37

a demon always. Com

19:40

about. I will go. On.

19:45

The girl talks to Israel. She

19:47

asks him questions like where he's

19:49

from, tells him he's good looking.

19:51

She says she may have even

19:53

gone out with him if he

19:55

asked. She tells him her name's.

19:58

Humanizes herself, Have

20:00

is up actually later? like thinking about

20:02

it. The

20:05

letter own gets me for like two

20:07

years. After that he comes home and

20:10

office your. Shoulder and I

20:12

will beat myself up about

20:14

that. After

20:16

about thirty minutes to an hour Israel

20:19

brings her back to the river she

20:21

gets back into or to been heads

20:23

back to her friends. Are.

20:25

You stricter laws that was. Crazy.

20:36

German. I'm asking. You.

20:41

After the assault Israel gets paranoid about

20:43

getting caught. She checks the news off

20:45

and to see. If there are reports,

20:48

is there are any? He doesn't see

20:50

them. Maybe she did before his? I

20:52

don't know. Like

20:54

as a sure that fighting so I don't know.

20:58

So. And I used a condom saw.

21:01

Their word of mouth and they will believe

21:03

there. Should. Is. Israel.

21:06

Learns to things from his experience

21:09

that damages shoots. River. First,

21:11

he is not that into satanism.

21:13

For starters, bloodletting isn't practical.

21:16

It leaves behind too much

21:18

Dna. Strangling is cleaner. That

21:20

and I believe in Satan

21:22

by default. Said it requires

21:24

a belief of the devil's

21:26

counterpart gods, and Israel just

21:28

can't get down with that.

21:30

He's done attempting to give

21:32

his violent urges any rationale

21:34

or meanings second and more.

21:36

practically. I realized I could do

21:38

it away with it. He just

21:41

need to be more careful in

21:43

the future of do that kind

21:45

of stuff to have to complete.

21:47

Strangers. In

21:50

the In one male who has seen me

21:52

around the person or send humans by the

21:54

whole thing that happened organ freaked me out

21:57

to murder almost of each from where I

21:59

work everyday. You

22:01

also only. Israel

22:04

developed a travel habits. He often

22:06

left for days or weeks at

22:08

a time. She'd tell his parents

22:10

he was visiting friends or family

22:12

and go on long drives. Or

22:14

hop on a plane. His last girlfriend

22:16

traveled a lot for work. So he

22:18

sometimes made use of her miles.

22:21

He went to great lengths to hide

22:23

his tracks. He'd book a flight

22:25

to one city, then rent a car

22:28

and drive for miles off into another.

22:30

State another jurisdiction he'd

22:32

turn. Off his phone for extended

22:35

periods of time by taking it

22:37

apart and removing the battery so

22:39

he couldn't be traced. He'd use

22:41

cash as often as possible and

22:43

paper maps so he didn't have

22:45

to connect to Gps. For accommodations,

22:47

he might book more than one

22:49

hotel and only use one, or

22:51

check himself into multiple hotels at

22:53

the same time. He'd sometimes book

22:55

to for three days and then

22:57

leave after two, and if he

22:59

ever wanted to, he was comfortable

23:01

living off grid in the woods.

23:03

One time he filed for to

23:05

fishing permits on the same day,

23:08

one in Wyoming, one in Alaska.

23:10

And for all we know, he didn't use

23:12

either. It's hard to know

23:15

how often Israel left home. Tears.

23:17

Josh again. It's

23:19

tricky to add up the total number of

23:22

trips because sometimes the troops are compounded by

23:24

to go from one to another and Reuters

23:26

at one or two. So I would say

23:28

there are. Approximately thirty

23:31

four. Trips. Between

23:33

two thousand and one when

23:35

he. Left. The military and

23:37

two thousand twelve when it was arrested

23:39

for like mileage on each trip. I've

23:41

never done a full accounts but it's

23:43

a lot. Of in Texas alone

23:45

you could have driven across the country three

23:48

different times. The. F B. I

23:50

believe it's possible Israel may have

23:52

gone so far as to abducted

23:54

victims in one state, kill them

23:56

in another, and dispose of their

23:58

body in a third and his

24:00

trial those weren't limited to the

24:02

states. They found evidence he took

24:04

trip to Canada, Mexico and beliefs

24:06

as well. She may or may

24:09

not have killed every time a

24:11

to make it easier for himself

24:13

when the moment a rose Israel

24:15

buried killed kiss or caches all

24:17

over the country sneer areas he

24:19

frequented. He's. Still them with

24:21

things he'd need guns, knives, zip

24:23

ties. Storing them meant putting time

24:26

between their dates of purchase and

24:28

the actual crime. He could dig

24:30

them up whenever he needed. But.

24:33

The kill kids acted as more

24:36

than just pre crime prep just

24:38

as they also acted as a

24:40

post crime was sceptical. Israel would

24:42

move weapons from one kid to

24:44

another after using them. Presumably

24:46

transporting them to a new state

24:48

or jurisdiction. He'd store

24:50

cash he stole from homes and maybe

24:52

hid disguises in them as well. We.

24:55

Believe their trophies from his

24:57

abduction from kills. And these

25:00

coats. Samantha. Hair

25:02

was braided mm the braid was

25:04

cut off and never recovered. There

25:06

are items promised her to we

25:08

believe or keys related but disappeared

25:10

with a victim and they are

25:12

likely and kill gifts. Just spoke

25:15

with experts who believe Israel likely

25:17

return to these kids to read

25:19

Liz his crimes. So much of

25:21

Israel's life prepared him to be.

25:23

A killer. His childhood living off

25:25

grid tall him self. Reliance, How

25:28

to tie knots, How to hunt

25:30

for food. People who knew him

25:32

talked about his butchering skills that

25:34

he could butcher ago in minutes.

25:36

His work in construction many could.

25:38

Purchase a tarp and chainsaw

25:40

without raising eyebrows. You to go

25:43

to Home Depot and by. A thousand

25:45

zip ties and duct tape and it's not gonna

25:47

last. Stretch. In the

25:49

military, his peers referred to him as

25:51

a super soldier. He almost joined the

25:53

elite army rangers. He could make. His

25:56

own silencers was adapted camouflage

25:58

and knew how to. You

26:00

scopes and infrared sites. Josh

26:03

discusses Israel's time in the military.

26:05

The Wrist serial killer wanna

26:07

one? Unintentionally. He even

26:10

built moving targets in the woods

26:12

so he could practice shooting. And

26:14

yet even with all his firearm.

26:16

Training according to Cheesy only ever

26:18

saw Bill career. He said occasionally

26:20

the guns were used for intimidation

26:22

but I think they were also

26:24

just insurance for him and case

26:26

someone said get out of line

26:28

he had done. That

26:30

and he always brought one with

26:33

him. Well, Robbing banks.

26:41

Are you. Ready to

26:43

go to your happy place for a happy face! Not

26:47

right. Now and say that

26:49

the six percent and had out whether

26:51

it has his heaviness says you concert

26:53

in Kansas City so tennis or bachelorette

26:55

bass in Bermuda he never have them.

26:57

It's a trap ever again to download

26:59

Pipeline as your scenes are. We. Happy.

27:08

Prize. This

27:11

episode has been seen by the and

27:13

national to Young Lady. To

27:16

didn't upgrade the new and fire leggings

27:18

like a yard zoc. we what you

27:21

want when it comes. lots of where

27:23

It's the most versatile collection that they

27:25

listed. Feel good, stay put for using

27:28

like or adaptive fiber. it's impressive and

27:30

move to the body like a second

27:32

stint and it's unbelievably Ceci So you

27:35

can also set the anti smoking by

27:37

to the Indo exclusively at Six Sporting

27:39

Goods. The.

27:43

Sec Israel Keys was a burglar,

27:46

bank robber, and an arsonist in

27:48

addition to a serial killer is

27:50

often treated as a footnote in

27:53

stories. The F B I Says

27:55

Keys admitted to burglarizing between twenty

27:57

to thirty homes across America. And

28:00

is our sins and bank heist may have been. Directly

28:02

linked to is murders. The

28:05

arsons presumably to destroy evidence

28:07

and burn remains the bank

28:09

robberies to fund his life

28:12

and travels and also because

28:14

itself. Goods My opinion on the

28:16

bank robberies as best. he is

28:19

using the bank robbery to sustain

28:21

me hi of committing number the

28:23

F. B I as especially connected

28:25

Israel. To to bank robberies one in

28:27

Tupper Lake, New York in two thousand

28:29

and nine. And another, an

28:32

Easel Texas in two thousand

28:34

and Twelve shortly after murdering

28:36

Samantha Conics. But they believe

28:38

he was responsible for many more.

28:40

The exact number no one knows

28:42

for sure. Israel says it was

28:44

less than a dozen banks. He

28:46

close a similar number. Of. Murder

28:48

victims. This. Is

28:50

Special Agent Kill Lean Gaudin? One. Of

28:52

the investigators present during his interviews.

28:56

Your eleven victims total and that

28:59

is. Based. Primarily on what

29:01

he's told us. we tried to

29:03

pin number he would fit well.

29:05

He was quick to correct. The

29:08

there were several hundred we just route. You

29:11

are alleged victims. Didn't

29:14

practice. But there's

29:16

no way to know for sure. Israel

29:18

could have been toying with investigators. Or

29:20

outright lying. He certainly never straightforward.

29:23

And the interviews they can be

29:25

incredibly frustrating to listen to. We

29:28

mentioned in our last episode that Israel

29:30

originally told F B I agents he

29:32

wanted to death penalty taken off the

29:35

table, but at some point he does

29:37

a one eighty. By can't

29:39

get and as to Sunday. Within.

29:42

A year. In. All I'll

29:44

tell you about everything I'll give

29:46

you. Plead. Guilty to whatever.

29:48

Give you every single gory details

29:51

want? But that's what I

29:53

want. To. Die. And

29:55

to avoid a media. Circus.

29:58

I want. My To. In.

30:00

Savage. And to grow up, you know I see

30:02

the season safe place. Now she's not going to see

30:05

any of this. I wants her

30:07

to have a chance to grab and not

30:09

have all the same an overhead. It's

30:12

hard to reconcile that statement with

30:14

everything else we know about Israel

30:17

how he treated other daughters and

30:19

sons. It's the kind of statement

30:21

that doesn't fit neatly into our

30:24

perception of serial killers. There's Embassy,

30:27

Concerns maybe some same as

30:29

well. Which is perhaps

30:31

spitting because Israel, based on

30:33

everything we know about his

30:35

crimes, worked tirelessly to sidestep

30:37

expectations. In. Addition to studying

30:40

other serial killers he wants to

30:42

lot of see a sigh and

30:44

criminal minds. He read books by

30:47

same as F B I Profilers

30:49

like Mind Hunter by John Douglas

30:51

and Mark All Shaker. She studied

30:53

his opposition, the people who'd one

30:56

day try to put him behind

30:58

bars, how they worked with the

31:00

thought of people like him and

31:02

he used that to mold himself

31:04

into something both old and new.

31:07

Something unexpected. Maureen Callahan, the. Author

31:09

of American Predators said that

31:11

Israel had an unprecedented ammo

31:13

with zero victim profile and

31:15

a mode of travel that

31:17

rendered him undetectable. But so

31:19

much of what we know

31:22

about Israel Keys and his

31:24

crimes comes from his own

31:26

words, and his words don't

31:28

always match his actions. The.

31:30

Same Israel who asks to be

31:33

executed, Who acts. Unfazed by his

31:35

capture, tries to take matters into

31:37

his own hands in May. Two

31:39

thousand and twelve. That

31:54

clip comes courtesy of T You

31:56

You T V. It was recorded at

31:59

a hearing for the the abduction

32:01

and killing of Samantha Cone Egg Israel.

32:03

Attempt to escape the court room, he

32:05

somehow breaks out of his leg

32:07

irons and tries to jump over the

32:10

partition behind him. Security has to

32:12

stop him with a stun gun and

32:14

as much as is real, tries to

32:16

present himself as an opportunistic killer

32:18

who chooses his victims at random. In

32:21

the moment, Josh believes. There's maybe more

32:23

to the story. The. Through

32:25

line for those three crimes, the

32:27

careers and Samantha is there is.

32:30

Very strong evidence, if not. Absolute

32:33

proof that she's had encountered

32:35

all three prior to her

32:38

Texas. Josh says particularly with

32:40

Samantha. Call next. We mentioned in

32:42

our last episode Samantha hadn't always

32:44

worked. At a coffee stands. She'd

32:47

been working at a sports bar

32:49

which is important and strangely never

32:51

makes it into the media surrounding

32:53

Keys. It's important because according

32:55

to Josh, Israel was a

32:57

huge Minnesota Vikings fans. And.

33:00

Rebar that Samantha worked at

33:03

was Anchorages premier Minnesota Vikings

33:05

Far. The only place

33:07

in town or you could go watch Vikings

33:09

games. And we don't know that she's frequented

33:12

that bar, but. Army

33:14

friends of his in Seattle area said

33:16

that he while he was there sought

33:18

out the one Vikings bar and Seattle

33:20

so he to go watch games live.

33:23

Not to mention Cheese was going to

33:25

the Home Depot across from her coffee

33:27

sand the whole time she worked her.

33:29

She was an avid coffee drinker so.

33:32

It's. Very hard to believe that

33:34

he had not gone through

33:36

that coffee sand once or

33:38

twice. So there's another circumstantial

33:40

evidence in multiple locations that

33:42

would make it quite clear

33:44

they cross paths. Maybe

33:47

there's more to Israel's ammo than he

33:49

led on. She had to

33:51

meet with a psychologist to basically

33:54

assessed that he was sir capable

33:56

going to try on in that

33:58

interview he. Called

34:00

himself bisexual. But

34:03

you know she talked about his girlfriend.

34:05

Signing. Him sending suggestive.

34:08

Messages. To man. Maybe

34:10

there's more to his victimology? I

34:13

may not be a licensed psychologist or

34:15

psychiatrist. But Josh has spoken to a few and

34:17

his. Research. Every criminal psychologist

34:20

of talk to have described

34:22

him as a sexually motivated

34:24

serial killer. So. If

34:26

you're someone who's trying to. Conceal

34:30

your ammo. I conceal victimology. It

34:32

would make sense that you would

34:34

target both men and women. And

34:36

terms of age I think. There's.

34:39

A lot to hypothesize about

34:41

why he targeted different people.

34:43

One psychologist I talk to

34:45

suspected that there are four archetypes

34:47

of his. Victims: One that

34:50

represented his father, One that represented

34:52

his mother. One that

34:54

represented his younger self and one

34:56

from represented his first female months.

34:58

I've only heard one psychologists say

35:00

that night and to look for.

35:03

A little more resonance amongst the experts.

35:09

And known and potential victims for

35:11

that. As for what exactly is

35:13

real wanted to protect his daughter from

35:15

we can only guess. The. Next

35:18

affiliate only comes up once when

35:20

he's talking about. A murder

35:22

of some and the conic. It also

35:24

comes up once in the files, often

35:26

when they're asking him to. Account

35:29

for his crimes. She'll.

35:31

Be very detailed and specific until it

35:33

comes to the wraith itself. He won't

35:36

even use the word rape. More often

35:38

than not, he'll just get like very

35:40

clumsy and shy suddenly and try to

35:43

move on quickly. There's. Very

35:45

clearly a large amount a shame around whatever

35:47

took place during a sexual assaults you talked

35:49

about fill Courier how he had big plans

35:52

for him and then they say can you

35:54

elaborate and he shuts down. It's

35:56

hard to know if Israel. Wanted to protect his

35:58

daughter from the other. That is

36:00

double life or. She wanted

36:02

to protect his legacy from the

36:05

axe. He found a shameful and

36:07

embarrassing where his demands selfless. Or

36:10

selfish. Similar questions come

36:12

up with the relationships in his life. Were

36:14

any of them. Loving and genuine

36:16

or where they all just

36:18

convenient. Josh. Talks a lot

36:20

about duality on his podcast True Crime.

36:22

Bullshit. He named his studio

36:25

both and. While a

36:27

lot of that could be motivated by like

36:29

ego. Or narcissism I think

36:31

of to him. They

36:34

were pure real feelings. It's

36:36

both amd would he. both

36:39

is capable of love and

36:41

it's not. Anything.

36:44

most. Typical people

36:46

would define as love. If.

36:48

You read the coverage. Surrounding Israel Keys,

36:51

his reputation can sensationalized or

36:53

at the very least, a

36:55

step removed from nuanced she's

36:57

been. Called the Swede generous

36:59

serial. Killer of the Twenty First

37:02

Century aka in. A class

37:04

of his own. Headlines call

37:06

him a monster, vile, unhinged,

37:08

the most terrifying serial killer

37:11

you've never heard of, and

37:13

most of all, meticulous. But

37:16

again, while all those things are true,

37:18

it's not. The whole story. She

37:20

was a meticulous planner, but

37:22

in execution here often quite

37:24

sloppy. Israel said he learned

37:26

not to commit crimes too close to

37:29

home, but he abducted Samantha just two

37:31

miles away from his house in Alaska,

37:33

then killed her in a shed on

37:36

his property. The courier some was only

37:38

about forty miles from a cabin he

37:40

owns. He made mistakes.

37:42

He left behind evidence he

37:44

hired sex workers, got caught

37:46

sending messages to men on

37:48

line. He kept tabs on

37:50

his victims cases, even let

37:53

comments on web sites discussing

37:55

their disappearances, writing them under

37:57

the user name. Is Real.

37:59

You know, He got caught on

38:01

camera multiple times that he was wearing. Pretty.

38:04

Good disguises, See.

38:06

Almost got caught according to him during

38:08

one bank robbery, but he hit out

38:11

in the woods. I think it's just

38:13

by chance that he was able to.

38:16

Get away from many many mistakes.

38:18

Josh says that when we call

38:20

people monsters, we can give. Them

38:22

too much power. Israel Keys was

38:24

a man capable of monstrous actions.

38:27

It's both true that he got

38:29

lucky from time to time, and

38:31

that we're lucky he got caught.

38:34

Talked about a few different plans he

38:36

had for his future. He talked about

38:39

moving down to Houston and. Chasing.

38:41

The hurricanes be. Subtext.

38:44

Being that someone goes missing during hurricane,

38:46

no one's gonna assume it's anything other

38:48

than a hurricane. She

38:51

talked about. Creating. Some

38:53

sort of Hh Holmes. Bunker.

38:55

Where he could keep someone for a

38:57

longer amount of time. And then the

39:00

third thing you talked about was what

39:02

seems to be a mass shooting he

39:04

had set up. Targets are on the

39:07

woods immature gosh mountains where he was

39:09

trying to. Sue as many

39:11

targets as possible while running away from the

39:13

seem, so I think he had a few

39:16

different thoughts for a how he was going

39:18

to evolve. And fortunately for

39:20

all of us and he was arrested before

39:22

any of those could come to fruition. At

39:26

some point during his interviews, Israel learns

39:28

his. Name is ended up in

39:31

the media Connected to the courier's

39:33

disappearance. He begins stonewalling investigators. He

39:35

discusses other victims, but only in

39:38

vague terms. He might mention a

39:40

state like New York or Washington,

39:42

but little else. That

39:44

behavior pretty much continues. For the

39:47

remainder of their interviews and unfortunately for

39:49

the rest of his victims and their

39:51

families. Israel's apparent need.

39:53

For control leads to an

39:55

unexpected endings. Some.

39:58

Time before December Second: two

40:00

thousand and twelve. While in

40:02

his prison cell, Israel paints

40:04

eleven identical say panic scholes

40:07

on eleven sheets of paper.

40:09

Using his own blood.

40:13

This. Is where the F B

40:15

I take their. Theory.

40:17

That he killed Eleven people

40:20

In solidify as facts my.

40:23

Perception. Is that keys being

40:25

a decks and trolling them based on

40:27

the fact that they kind of decided

40:29

he killed eleven people and kept telling

40:31

him that even though he never said

40:33

was true and and that begs the

40:35

question like what with we knew he

40:38

was capable of accessing and death of

40:40

his own blood to your finger painting

40:42

them. Certainly they should have done a

40:44

better job thereafter of facilitating the tools

40:46

he was getting access to. On

40:49

December second, two thousand and twelve

40:51

prison guards find Israel dead in

40:54

his cell. He'd somehow gotten his

40:56

hands. Are. Razor Blade He leaves

40:58

behind a strange rambling note.

41:00

I looked in your eyes.

41:03

There was so dark, warm

41:05

and trust. As though

41:07

you have to worry or care.

41:09

and more guileless the game. The

41:11

better potential to fill up those

41:14

pools with your fear. Your.

41:16

Face frames and dark girls like

41:18

a portrait. The sun shone through

41:20

highlights of read. I

41:23

wonder at how street will it turn?

41:27

with a sort of your. Your.

41:29

With lips or a promise.

41:31

secret unspoken nervous laugh as

41:33

a person. There

41:38

will be no more laughter here. So.

41:41

Much of it as just like

41:43

weird email poetry which is very

41:45

generous. Now everyone I've talked to

41:48

all the psychologists and the at

41:50

the I'd answer like it could

41:52

be something but it's probably not,

41:54

that's just the ramblings of a.

41:57

Messed up man who was at his wits end.

42:00

No more cars to play, any have no more control.

42:03

Since Israel's Das the F

42:05

B I has slowed down

42:07

their investigation into his victims,

42:09

focusing on more pressing cases.

42:12

but Josh hasn't stopped investigating.

42:14

He's been working to bring closure to

42:16

as many cases as he can with

42:18

the help of many others, including. Bobby

42:21

to com one of the officers

42:23

who helped retrieved Samantha Colleagues remains

42:25

in Alaska. And while the F

42:27

B I sinks. Israel is responsible

42:29

for eleven murders. Josh believes

42:32

the number is higher, probably

42:34

around Twenty is most likely.

42:38

This is Israel Key is talking about

42:40

his final. Year. Of Freedom. What

42:44

I. Said. Last

42:46

year. A little over

42:49

a year now. I did a lot of

42:51

stuff and then. I mean, there's

42:53

no. Control. But.

42:59

It was back on. So

43:03

yeah, there are a lot of stuff. And last. Twelve

43:06

Thirteen months. But. It

43:09

goes back. For. Fourteen years,

43:11

he says. Do. Set

43:13

number again. remember. It's. How

43:15

We Started the last Episode. A

43:18

long have you been to differences? On

43:22

tough. Horton.

43:25

Hears. It's

43:27

an oddly specific number, not an

43:29

estimate, You'd expect like this

43:31

team or round like ten.

43:34

So what happened right before

43:36

his real keys? Lies split

43:38

into. What happened with

43:40

Which museum? If

43:43

you go back in time, exactly

43:45

fourteen years before she makes that

43:47

comment. To the months a

43:49

young woman named Suzanne. Mile.

43:52

Disappears. Thanks.

44:02

For listening to Serial Killers, a Spotify

44:04

Podcasts Will be back Monday with our

44:07

third episode on Israel Keys. Be sure

44:09

to check us out on Instagram at

44:11

Serial Killers podcast and we'd love to

44:13

hear from you. So if you're listening

44:15

on the spot, a Fiat swipe up

44:18

and give us your thoughts. Once again,

44:20

we'd like to give a special thanks

44:22

to Josh Hallmark or lending his expertise

44:24

to Today Story. You can check

44:26

out true crime bullshit Choses investigation

44:28

into Israel Keys which is going

44:31

into with six. Seasons as well

44:33

as Josh is other podcasts. From

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Studio Both and on Spotify or

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wherever else you listen. Stay.

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Safe out there. Serial

44:44

Killers is a. Spotify podcast. This

44:46

episode was written by Conor

44:48

Some Sense, researched, edited and

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produced by Conor Sampson and

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Chelsea Would Suck checked by

44:54

Lorrie Siegel and sound design

44:56

by Alex Button. Or had

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a programming is Julian Borrow or

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had a production is Nick Johnson

45:03

and Spencer Howard is our plus

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production supervisor. I'm your host. And.