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Music.

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Hello everyone and welcome back to Sensible Sunderland.

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It's another copy and paste job this week as we find ourselves once again on

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the wrong end of a 1-0 scoreline. This time at Vicarage Road and a Watford side who, to be honest,

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looked every bit as poor as us. This week it's just me and Lee as we're still waiting on Dan's body to turn

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up and we simply refuse to pay the ransom for Mark.

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Look, I'm just going to dive straight into it, Lee. I sensed you were a very

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angry bunny from our group chat yesterday.

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So I'll just let you get it off your chest. What were your thoughts?

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To be honest, it's hard to describe how pitiful it is, isn't it?

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All you've got to do is just rant at them because nobody's taking charge and

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nobody's kind of rolling the sleeves up. And that's what pisses everybody off.

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I know we'll go into a bit more detail, but the cherry on the icing for me was

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there was a certain point in the match in the second half where Ekwer pulls

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out of a tackle that he should be winning.

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And it just sums it all up. There's just no effort there. They all want to just get into the summer.

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They've got the beach hats on. It's just, yeah, like I say, it's just infuriating,

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especially for those away fans who've travelled down, paid all that money,

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and then to see the team half-arses. It's just infuriating.

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Yeah, like I say, there comes a point where you

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have to go into it with some sort of professional pride like

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look i get it like i know there's now to play for i know

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you don't really have to prove anything to

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mike dodds because he's probably not going to be there next season but still

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like for your own you know personal pride why aren't you giving this everything

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you've got i mean one thing i'll say personally like is like i was watching

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it yesterday and i was just thinking like i don't care anymore like granted

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i was i was annoyed last week after Millwall,

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what I like yesterday, I just kind of shrugged my shoulders and I was just a bit like.

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Meh about the whole thing really like dan hit the nail on the head last week when he said

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it's like counting down shifts at work before you go away and

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i felt like watching it i just kind of ticked it

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off and i was just like right like one more to go and by

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what you've just said there i feel like there's a lot of us feeling the same

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it's just like i say i just kind of wait for the the season to be over and hopefully

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during the summer we get some positivity something to scream about and you know

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we know what the silly season gets like we get linked with all these names and

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who scored how many goals in the second division in spain and stuff like that,

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but yeah like i say i mean i'm a big fan of the transfer window anyway but.

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There's just kind of it can't be any worse than what's

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happened this this past six months or so well i

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mean we all we all you know we've said it on other podcasts like we all

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hope that the club aren't stupid enough to

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basically think they can just get away with signing young talent

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in the the summer again we'll go on to it in greater

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detail but you know if the room is about what's his

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face is it chris willock joel willock's

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brother who we've been linked with yeah you know he what is it he's 26 i mean

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you know he's not the best player in the world i've seen him a few times for

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cute he hasn't really impressed me but just the fact that we are willing you'd

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think we pay money for someone over the age of nine years old like you know what i mean it just

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shows that maybe there is a bit of flexibility in the model now.

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But that's the thing with him, though. His contract's out in the summer,

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so we ain't paying any money for him. Oh, is that right?

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Yeah, his contract's up. The QPR fans are going nuts because apparently he's

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actually signed a deal with us. So, like you say, he's already greed up QPR fans to go nuts.

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We've given him on a free, 26 years old. So, is it any different than the model

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that we've already seen? Not paying fees for players over 25?

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Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah, I've been reading up on it at the end. Yeah, the QPR fans are absolutely

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fuming about it because apparently he's had some really bad injuries while he's

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been playing for them over the past couple of seasons.

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And they've kind of helped him come through all that.

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And then all of a sudden he's just dropped tools and gone

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right to be fair you know like you'd look at it

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and you'd say well son learns a step up on qpr but

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i was looking at the table yesterday i'm sure qpr has only three points behind

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us now it wouldn't surprise us because like you see i think i heard a stat earlier

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on we can finish as low as 18th which is which is crazy by the way considering

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where we were at the turn of the year basically when we started this podcast

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where we were yeah But yeah, 100%.

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We are 100% the downfall of Sunderland AFC.

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Not Michael Bale, not Christian Speakman. It is 100% sensible Sunderland. I'll take it on the chin.

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But I mean, one person who I think we're all, you know, maybe starting to,

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well, I mean, not starting to blame. I think there's a few of us being blamed for a couple of weeks.

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Obviously, Mike Dodds just comes across as a man very much just out of his depth. You know, he's one.

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We're all saying, Dan said last week, he's trying to preserve his reputation

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I think he's very much just trying to get through to the end of the season like

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everybody else but I mean again even his interview yesterday where he was saying

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like well I don't know how we've how we've come away losing that game we create

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a chance after chance we look very good on the ball,

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and it's just you watch it and you think like what game are you watching mate because like.

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Both teams yesterday, none of them could keep the ball. It was comical at times.

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It was like a game of basketball, the amount of turnovers they were yesterday in possession.

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Like I say, I mean, obviously I was very active on the Sensible Sun on Twitter

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page yesterday, screaming and ranting about Dodds and the team.

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But honestly, I want whatever he's smoking because he clearly wasn't on this

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planet when he was watching us play football yesterday.

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We were so atrocious. And don't get us wrong,

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I thought for the most part we defended quite well but

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it was our it was that transition when we were we retained

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the ball and we were trying to move it forward we just

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couldn't we couldn't get it to stick we were just giving it straight

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back to Watford it was so

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so poor and I think he's basically saying

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that we deserve to be 2-0 up because Chris Rigg missed a chance and then try

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Hugh and put one just just slightly dipped over the bar but that's all we did

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all probably all match I don't think I can't remember anything of what happened

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in the second half other than their goal but we were just absolutely atrocious

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Jack Clarke had a couple of, half attempts I wouldn't even like say but,

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realistically what do we offer to that game what have we offered for the past six months.

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You've said the right thing like it is everything seems to be a half chance

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doesn't it you know what I mean there's nothing kind of clear cut I mean there's

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one in the second half which we'll get onto but I just want to talk about you know their goal,

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Because they weren't threatening themselves, man. They were every bit as bad as us.

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But it was similar to Millwall last week, when it was like, we're there every

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bit as bad as us. Got nil-nil written all over it. And then they somehow get a goal. It comes straight through the middle of the pitch again.

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I mean, I will say we're missing Dan Neal. I'm not saying he would have stopped the goal yesterday.

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But, you know, when you see Ekwer and Jorg just jogging, you know, as they tend to do.

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Ball gets played out wide. And it's Callum Styles caught out of position.

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And I don't think it's a bad finish by what was his name Ryan Andrews he gets

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the goal but I mean Patterson was poor the ball just goes underneath him basically yeah like I said.

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Patterson could have done better maybe but for me again midfield

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non-existent and Callum Stiles

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Christ it was like he was like he was jogging through clusters like that Andrew

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once he'd set himself away that was it there was no catching him from Stiles

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and yeah like I say we should be we should be leaving Stiles behind I know he's

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had a couple of good games for us but a couple of good games doesn't really,

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warrant paying out any kind of fee from I would be I would think next week will

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probably be the last time we see him I don't know mind I don't know whether

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I'm just you know being too, overly optimistic here but for some reason with him I just want to give him

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a summer I want to give him a summer and a pre-season and a coach

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who's actually going to come in and say to him because

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i think that's his problem he said himself he still doesn't know what position

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he's playing i know he made a comment last week about

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like doubling down you know and getting a midfield role but like that obviously

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isn't the case after yesterday well to be fair like you say he didn't do anything

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particularly wrong in midfield it was when he was moved to left back that we

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ended up conceding so maybe there is a bit of a bit of thought that needs to go into that?

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I think he just needs, he's like a lot of them, they all just need a bit of direction.

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And to be honest, I'm going to consistently stick the knife through Michael

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Dodds here because I don't know what he's doing on that training pitch.

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I don't know why he brings Barron who's very much out of form to replace Rigg.

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If you're going to try something, at least try Tommy Watson.

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You know what I mean? At least try Mundell. Like you say, I'm at that point

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now where Quite frankly, I just don't care.

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So when he brought Doola Bar on, I was like, oh, here we go.

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A bit of fucking madness. A bit of fucking madness coming up. Here he is. Here he is. But no, didn't do well.

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Again, another one who I think probably just needs a loan.

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To kind of go and prove himself because I don't think he's at championship standard yet.

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I know he's had the odd spell here and there where he's kind of scored this

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or goal or created assists, but he has no consistency about his game at all.

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So again, go away, play 30 games in another league, another country,

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and then come back and we'll make a choice on them.

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But next season, I'll be amazed if he's even on the bench.

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Yeah. I mean, again, it's all ifs and buts because we don't know.

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We hope the club don't make the same mistakes. But I would hope that a lot of the players that we're seeing this season,

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who we're seeing, you know, they're not just quite ready.

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They do get those loan moves away, whether it's to League One,

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another lower table championship club.

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Even if they get sent out there, I know it hasn't really done out for Priantas.

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And who's the other one who's gone over to Scotland? Maeda?

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Maenda. Maenda, aye. You know, but even send them to Scotland,

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and send them, you know, Ligue 3?

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Ligue 2? I don't know. Ligue 3?

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Trois-3? Yes, it is. Ligue 2. Ligue 2. There we go. There you are.

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Can't say we're not educated here on sensible Sunderland mind.

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But look, I said about Paterson being a fault for the goal. I know there's,

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for some reason, I don't get it, but there's an element of our support who I

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think really have it in for Anthony Paterson. But like, I was getting annoyed yesterday, not even

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like before the goal just his general distribution and

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like his kicking i was just like it was shocking there

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was like i said there was a couple of times where he was

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moving the ball around the back line and then he'd go

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for a little chip over the top to get it to the fullback or the

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wingers and it was just kicked into the crowd comes across as like lack of concentration

11:44

ricky when you don't quite connect with the ball the way you meant to and like

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it annoys me in general like not just with us but like just football generally

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now like every every team now tries to play out from the back because it's like

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seen as this ultra modern like trendy thing to do,

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but like blatantly obviously people like pato like he's not that comfortable

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with it and the thing is they don't have the like these players i get that he's

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young but it's like he doesn't have the brain to go right well i've nearly been

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caught here a couple of times maybe i'll stop they just think you know what,

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I've been taught to play this way, I'm going to do it. Like, it's so robotic.

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Like, think for yourself. Well, Pat, I find it very strange that,

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you know, we have this kind of, and I do believe it is a minority of supporters

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that kind of would like to see the bat of them in the summer. Yeah.

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Which, to be fair, to be honest, I do think we might. It all depends whether

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he wants to go out there and be a back-up keeper to Alisson.

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But, yeah, I find it bizarre because when you think about the kid that came

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in, when we recalled him in League One, that lad who came in is nowhere near

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the player that we've got now. We've really done good work with Pato.

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And the fact that he's had, I can't remember, it was like 150 games or around about that mark.

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Where he's played consecutively for Sunderland.

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It's just a bit of a credit there, and I think we should show a bit more support.

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I think you're going to get it all the time, aren't you? Because I think especially,

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I might be wrong, but we're especially critical of our homegrown players.

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I don't know whether it's a bit like, because you should be doing it for the

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shirt and the badge, and you know what I mean? Every kind of fan behind you wants to wear that shirt.

13:28

Yeah, some players just aren't good enough. like as much

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as we as much as we've like you know been annoyed this

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season at some of the levels of performances like from people like

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equa where we've said like oh he's just so lethargic things that i i don't think

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he's not trying i think it's just like say it's just the way he is i don't there's

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none of them that i think aren't given anything less than 100 but like say they

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just met they're just not as good as we we want them to be really yeah like you see i think again,

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he's the knife coming out for Dodds but. It's a lack of direction like where Tony Moorbury

14:01

had Ekwer and he said I need him to be more

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aggressive more physical I need him to put his leg in

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where it hurts I don't think he's getting that from this current

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settle like realistically Ekwer and there was a

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part here so like I say he pulled out of the title which he

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absolutely should have been coming away from the ball with but for

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me I just want him to go and put his knee through somebody like I want him to

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develop that nasty streak where everybody goes oh he's a bit of a bastard him

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isn't he but I just can't see it coming from him because like you said he's

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just he's this happy smiling person you don't think he's got that nasty streak in him,

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You know what, he needs something tragic to happen in his life.

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In fact, I can't say that. I can't say that.

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That's a bit extreme, man. If anything does happen, now I'm suspect number one.

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If anything bad happens to him. But no, like, yeah, you know, we used to always say about like Catamore,

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like sometimes he'd go in, he'd be a bit daft, and he'd get like daft yellows.

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But there was loads of games, wasn't there, where like early doors,

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you know, getting ran ragged, and then he would just like put

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his leg through somebody and it was like yeah it needs

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that sometimes and that's just what we're so lacking at the

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minute like you say just a big hard like nasty bastard just to just to like

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put a marker down really yeah i mean me my memory of catamore goes obviously

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back to the callback one thing that was like like 40 seconds in or something

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absolutely cripples him i don't think he played in the premier league again

15:29

after that you know what I mean like, I'm not asking Ekward to go out and you know destroy somebody's career but what

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I'm asking him to do is like you see lay down that marker ensure that the other

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teams midfield it's not going to be an easy ride I am going to bully you at

15:45

every point like you see go at the littlest man on the pitch and just hit him

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just hit him as hard as you can, and just lay down that idea of you know you are not in for an easy ride yeah,

15:56

because like you say it just it disrupts doesn't it that's all it does it's

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not going to win us the game but it's just going to disrupt them in the way

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that they're going to approach the game going forward, look everywhere obviously you say we pull out tackles I think we did have a

16:10

few chances I mean like you say Riggi had a couple in the first half there's

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that Rigg one just before the Hume chip thing.

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Where he's so unfortunate because if he hits that first time.

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He probably scores the goal but because he takes that

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extra touch it takes that bit wider and obviously

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i mean i think it it takes a minor touch off

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the keeper's foot it should have been the corner but it makes

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it look that much worse yeah it went as

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a goal kick and it was like oh my god how is that done but at

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the end of the day i'm i'm not going to stick the boat in the rig

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because i think out of everybody he's the one who's trying to

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drag players up by the scrum for

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kid but he's the only one who's shouting and barking orders yeah

16:57

it's like it's like with dodds he's one of those managers who

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just seems to have like it's as if he sets he's

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as if he sets his stall up before the game like he doesn't he

17:06

doesn't let the game dictate his decision make and he just as

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if he thinks right okay i'm going to play chris rake up until

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the 65th minute yeah and then i'm going to and it's

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like i get that there's some games where you can do that but like

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sometimes you've got to like make an audible call really

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and like basically judge it on how the

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the game's going and like say he just doesn't seem to have the imagination to

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do that no well i got a few chances obviously yesterday's is like typical you

17:32

know cutting inside getting a shot off but just didn't come off for him there

17:36

was a few times yesterday to be honest where i was like i was getting annoyed

17:39

at him for not passing the ball i thought he was trying to do too much at times.

17:43

But it was just it summed up just how we are do you think there's an element

17:48

that clark isn't fit because you've got to think when he initially got injured.

17:55

We were all under the impression that, you know, we'll never see Clark in a

17:58

Sunderland shirt again. And then I think it was roughly about six weeks later, he comes back and he's

18:04

not really done anything since. I can't think of a goal. I can't think of an assist.

18:08

And even like to see it yesterday, he's running past people. He seems a bit leggy.

18:13

His passes are a bit wayward. His shots, he grasped for us.

18:17

There's just an element of me that where Dodds has gone,

18:20

I'm going to chuck him on there because I know Clark can create

18:23

something from him nothing and that's how we're going to win games and that's

18:27

that's pretty much what he's rolled the dice on is if i

18:30

stick clark out there something might happen you know

18:33

i know you obviously want to play your best 11 and win every game but

18:35

like we all know clark is our cash cow at the end of the season and i think

18:40

it's a massive risk for a team has gotten out to play for if he is injured or

18:43

he is carrying an injury why would you risk him for me you've got you've got

18:47

likes of you know we've just signed mundle to it i think it was a four-year

18:52

contract or something along those lines. You've got Tommy Watson who's come through the academy and is playing exceptionally

18:57

well for the under 21s you've even got and I know I'm going to get pellets for

19:02

this but you've got Abdullah Ba there if you see these players as the successor

19:06

to Jack Clark you need to give them the opportunity to prove it if you just

19:11

keep playing Jack Clark even though, it's 99% over the hill

19:17

that he's going stop playing him and put people who

19:20

are going to be in here next season it

19:23

would make sense i mean getting away from from jack

19:26

clark going on the other wing he obviously brought harry

19:30

roberts on second half i know you're i

19:33

think you've been very disappointed with

19:36

patrick roberts this season and his just lack of

19:39

end product i mean he had that chance yesterday i think it was when uh when

19:44

hamaya came on and hamaya had the ball i think it was right right side of the

19:47

box and he just like pulls it across and like i was just in disbelief that we'd

19:52

somehow missed that chance you know the one I made where the ball just seems

19:54

yeah yeah to be honest like I said it's hard to forget.

20:00

Like you see, an informed Paddy

20:02

Roberts, so say a last season's Paddy Roberts, belts that and goes in.

20:07

Like I say, I know he's tried to take it on his left foot, but by the time he

20:10

gets to his left foot, it's way behind him.

20:12

He needs to be hitting out with his right foot first time.

20:15

Just as soon as it comes to a bang, hit it, what, six yards out?

20:19

Just get any connection on it and see what happens. But instead,

20:23

he's tried, I don't know whether he's tried to take it under control,

20:26

tried to hit it with his left foot, but he ends up with a tangle in his feet.

20:30

He's on the deck and like you see i i kind of

20:32

sat there mouth a gear

20:35

just in total shock that how on

20:39

earth did he miss that because by the way i know he hasn't

20:42

had the best season but that from jamea to

20:45

run into the channel get like take the ball

20:48

down get into the box goes past his man puts the

20:51

ball back into a dangerous area right that that's

20:54

probably the best thing jamea has done all season

20:57

and he's coming away with nothing you know what I mean I do actually feel a

21:01

bit sorry for him because he's done really well there and somebody should be

21:05

getting on that ball and putting it in the back of the net yeah I actually saw

21:08

a few people try to defend Paddy Roberts and say oh it's a bad ball from him here but no no it wasn't,

21:14

I'm not about that you should be burying that without a doubt,

21:18

where do you see Paddy Roberts do you I mean it might be stupid to get rid of

21:23

Roberts if we know Clark's going but there is a few people I've seen,

21:27

mind, who kind of feel we've reached the end of the road with Paddy Roberts.

21:31

Do you think that is the case, or is he like the rest of them,

21:34

and he just needs a bit of direction and a bit of confidence restored?

21:38

No, I think with Paddy, he's obviously had a really stop-start season with his

21:44

injuries, and I think, I mean, I don't know how long his contract runs for,

21:49

but I believe he signed a new one quite recently.

21:52

So for me, I don't know. I'll be keen to keep him because when he is on form,

21:57

he is an exceptionally good player. But like you say, he just needs that management. That's somebody who probably

22:03

has put their arm around him like Tony used to do and just guide him through

22:08

a game and maybe build his confidence back up.

22:13

If he went, I don't think I would be really unhappy and upset about it.

22:21

But if he did go, I think he'd bring in some good money, despite this season.

22:28

Because people saw him with Ahmad last year.

22:30

Obviously saw what he did in League One. To be honest, I think we've got to remember this.

22:36

He came, we got him pretty much on a free, and there's a reason for that.

22:40

And I think this season has showed why we got him on a free.

22:45

Yeah, well, that's what I was getting at. like we all saw in sunlit lie die

22:49

when the other episode where kind of delved into like.

22:53

Harry roberts's like psychology and like the career

22:56

he's had he's always seemed to go through these like

22:59

peaks and troughs he's always been a player since he went

23:02

to man city at an early age he's always like had a

23:04

bit of a bit of a like a target on his head as

23:07

like one to watch and he seems to go through these like

23:11

you say peaks and troughs where he's either up there or down there and i

23:14

think it all depends on how he's feeling like in himself and

23:17

i think when he obviously came to sunderland and we got him on that free it was because

23:20

he was at the bottom and like you say day we thankfully restored a

23:23

bit of confidence he had someone like Tony Mowbray and

23:26

to be fair Alex Neil did the same where put an arm

23:29

around him built him up and it's just a bit sad because I'm

23:31

I'm watching him and I'm thinking like is he regressing

23:35

back to that and like I I know we

23:38

piss out players on that and like we want them

23:40

to win but like I don't know whether it's I'm getting like softer as

23:43

I get older or whether like because I've seen something

23:46

like I I tend to look at players now is like

23:49

especially since I've been in the low leagues I tend to look at them as a bit more

23:51

human and like when i can see that maybe

23:54

something's not right like you know like in the

23:57

in the head i do get a bit worried for them like personally

24:00

because i think like what's going on like even yesterday it's gonna sound

24:03

daft but there was a point where he was taking a

24:06

corner and like his hair wasn't

24:09

gelled back and he he had a like a

24:11

scruffy beard and i was like thinking like he's not you know what i mean

24:14

he's not in a shape even that and it.

24:17

Sounds daft because like that shouldn't have an impact but i was like thinking like

24:19

yeah i hope he's all right you know what i mean but do

24:23

you know what it is with roberts like i see it i think he gave me

24:26

like i said one of the one of

24:29

the greatest goals you know like feeling wise when he

24:32

scored that winner against chef wed in there oh you

24:35

know semi-final you know what i mean like i remember thinking like

24:37

because it was rocking out there place you know what

24:40

i mean like it was it was it was a proper cauldron but

24:43

when that when that goal went in i've never

24:46

felt relief like it's honestly like more more relief getting

24:49

past chef wed then rostro putting

24:52

the second one in against wigan at the final like there's

24:55

more relief there because even though i was not

24:58

like a bag of nerves at the playoff final i was

25:01

more nervous about getting past chef wed at that point what

25:04

i mean with the better team you know what i mean so like you

25:08

see it i i'll always you

25:11

know have really fun memories of patrick robertson like you see some

25:13

of the goals he scored for us especially last season the way him and Ahmad combined

25:17

and they were just pinging balls in left right and centre in the top corner

25:20

from like 30 yards out like you can't deny the talent is there it's just obviously

25:26

whether it's his fitness whether it's his current mental state and confidence

25:31

levels and stuff like that, but there's obviously something not right with him at the minute so if he wanted to go.

25:38

Elsewhere to kind of find his feet again you know what i mean good luck to the

25:41

guy because i've only got fond memories and it just hasn't worked this season

25:45

so i'm assuming it's not clicked obviously he's missed that man but i feel like

25:49

it's more than that because, paddy roberts can can do special things on his own yeah yeah definitely mind

25:56

it's funny what you say about the sheffield wednesday goal because i mean i

26:01

suppose it doesn't really count now because sheffield wednesday won yesterday

26:03

so they're safe but i did see someone earlier in the week saying and Paddy Roberts,

26:09

I don't think he's actually scored a goal for us this season.

26:11

I think one thing we all remember him for, I'd like to say, is that goal at

26:15

Hillsborough in the League One playoffs. And I think he also scored a goal when he was at Derby to relegate Sheff Wed to League One.

26:24

So people were saying it would be typical because he's like the scourge of Sheffield

26:29

Wednesday to get his one and only goal next week to essentially relegate them.

26:33

But Sheffield Wednesday won, I think, 3-0 yesterday. yesterday

26:36

so you know absolutely pierced the thing he did in

26:39

there um but yeah i don't know

26:42

i don't know what's gonna happen next week they're gonna fucking do you know

26:47

what it is like you see if we finish 18th it's it's obviously it's obviously

26:51

been a bad season anyway but i don't think until i heard that stat today i realized

26:57

how bad this season could actually be yeah you see take our early season form

27:02

out the window when we were actually like all right and it still felt

27:05

like we were performing at the same level as last season take that out of the

27:10

equation and we would we'd be cut adrift we'd be like Rotherham uh yeah I think

27:16

I think we will be you know I mean how many points of mobile pick up 40 something

27:20

you know what I mean and we're on 57,

27:23

it doesn't make for good reading it it's really really bad when you think about

27:29

it that way because Because the appointments, Bale and Dodds,

27:33

have obviously been an absolute disaster.

27:37

But I don't think, because we were

27:39

so safe through Mowbray, I don't think anybody's quite had a look into it.

27:44

We just kind of, you know, we had Mowbray.

27:47

Then we got Dodds in for a few games and things were still a bit rosy in the garden.

27:52

Then we had Bale and we had just Bale to focus on and everybody hated him.

27:56

There was a lot of vitriol around the club. and then we've

27:59

getting dodged and we've been on this losing streak so no I feel like

28:02

I haven't heard anybody say it but like we'd have

28:05

been relegated we'd have been relegated you know what I mean like and I know

28:10

a couple of weeks ago we were kind of just starting to peer over our shoulder

28:13

about what was below us but like this this could have been an absolute one strategy

28:19

of a season like this this could have been one of the worst seasons in Sunderland's

28:22

history and that's the answer, yeah yeah we've had plenty of contenders haven't we but yeah the The manager

28:28

is obviously he in the summer, whoever we get in.

28:32

I tend not to look at Roman Mills

28:35

and things like that because I just get bored by it all, to be honest.

28:38

But I know you've been keeping your ear to the ground with managerial stuff.

28:42

So what's it looking like at the minutes in terms of the appointment?

28:46

Who's on the list? Any new names?

28:49

Or is Will still a top guy? I think he's still there or thereabouts.

28:55

But a new name that's been mentioned, I think it was this morning,

28:58

might have been yesterday, is Rene Maric.

29:01

So he's a 31-year-old coach, which, you know, kind of fits in with Spaken's model.

29:07

He's currently working at Bayern Munich under-19s, and he's previously worked

29:12

at Leeds under Jesse March and Marco Rose at Dortmund.

29:16

So I wouldn't say he's quite a high-profile coach, but he's definitely worked

29:22

in some really, really top jobs.

29:25

Like I say, the Marco Rose and Dortmund one kind of speaks volumes because I

29:30

think they had a pretty good relationship right at the death and they did quite

29:34

well so I don't know, like I say, it's a new name.

29:37

It kind of fits with everything I've been seeing over the past couple of months

29:41

where I think this name will just pop up all of a sudden,

29:45

and Sunderland will have their new head coach and it'll be a name that nobody's

29:49

heard of or very few people have heard of and he'll have been about and done this that and the other.

29:54

Like I say, similarly, the appointment that we wanted to make last summer that

29:59

I think he was called Farioli, the now Nice manager.

30:03

Yeah. So like I say, I think I'm definitely, I don't think it's going to be a name.

30:08

Like I know Mark absolutely dorts over Steve Kluber and even Paul Heckenbottom.

30:14

I don't think it's going to be one of these. I do think it's going to be one of these names where it's just so entirely random.

30:21

And I guess it's almost like a game football manager. Like which coach can I pick out which team?

30:25

Yeah you're looking to just find a

30:28

i think the very like dead set on finding like

30:32

a hidden gem i think that's kind of what they're hoping

30:34

for and i get it and to be honest it wouldn't

30:37

surprise me if that's the the key to sunderland success just getting this random

30:42

bloke in who nobody heard has heard anything about and i'm just hitting us forward

30:47

like i'd love it but it's all well and good even even though those are massive

30:52

clubs bruscia dortmund and bayern munich it's all well in good,

30:55

you know, being a coach and being well thought of within that circle.

30:59

But, like, what I will say is, like, so is Mike Dodds. Do you know what I mean?

31:03

Mike Dodds is well thought of in a coaching capacity.

31:05

Can he make the step up to become a manager? Who knows? But,

31:09

if he gets the chance, it's up to him to take it, isn't it?

31:12

Yeah, 100%. And to be honest, I would say that for anybody who comes through

31:18

the door, it's a huge opportunity, a huge opportunity for anybody,

31:23

despite recent results and despite this season overall.

31:27

This is a big, big football club to manage and the potential is endless if you

31:34

can come in and get your style of football across and you can get your point

31:38

across, make some good results. Like the ceiling is high but it's also down to Spiegelman to deliver players,

31:47

to kind of suit and you know pushes on to the next level because I think the

31:52

past two three transfer windows have been,

31:55

uninspiring to say the least yeah.

31:59

He's got a big job on his hand this summer as well like you say not just coach

32:02

wise which to be honest is going to be his first one but he's got a lot of.

32:09

Holes to plug Do you think the expectations have changed after this season?

32:15

Do you think, I'm not saying it was the club's plan to regress,

32:20

like that's stupid, but obviously expectations going in this season,

32:24

the season we're having now, were ridiculously high after last season.

32:30

And do you think now, because as you say, we could finish as low as 18,

32:34

do you think the AIM will still be playoffs?

32:36

Or do you think the club might use that and say, well, you know,

32:40

we finished 18th next season, let's just try and get in that top 10.

32:43

Do you think some of the fans will actually stand for that?

32:46

Or do you think we're still going to have our sights aimed high?

32:49

To be honest, I think we've, despite all these shortcomings this season,

32:55

I still believe that we have an ambitious owner.

32:58

I still believe that he will not accept

33:01

this feeling like and like

33:04

you see he's got a big old job on his hands in

33:07

the summer but that's potentially going to be backed up with

33:10

40 million of one player you know you've got the likes of jack park dan ballard

33:15

daniel patterson hume who've all been linked with clubs away and if you i'm

33:20

not saying they will by the way and i don't think they should but if they sell

33:23

five of those five players you're gonna bring in a hell of a lot of money you know what I mean so.

33:29

We'll have money to kind of repair the squad and try and improve it where it

33:34

needs to be because like I say we all know our shortcomings this season just

33:38

being a goal scorer holding a bit of field there.

33:41

Our goals far and I love the guy especially after his handball yesterday but

33:46

I don't think 09 is the centre back that we need I think if he needs to come

33:51

in and he can plug gaps here and there fair enough but I think there's a lot

33:55

of really modelling needs doing on that squad get rid of some dead wood bring some players in,

34:01

build the squad out so you know like you see over the past couple of seasons

34:05

especially towards the back end of the season we've been down to the bare bones,

34:09

but he needs he needs a big big big win during the summer so hopefully we can get it,

34:16

So in terms of that that squad rebuild I know we mentioned Chris Willock earlier

34:22

on which as you said seems to be pretty much a done deal deal.

34:25

Anything else you've heard in terms of the players coming in?

34:28

I'll just quickly run back to Chris Willock.

34:31

Like I say, I know I've seen things like, oh, has the model kind of slightly changed?

34:35

In my opinion, no. We're still getting a plus 25-year-old on a free transfer.

34:40

I find it really, really surprising that we've actually, if it is true,

34:45

by the way, because at the minute it's just rumours there's been no official

34:48

announcement or anything like that. So he's played 38 times this season. So by the looks of it, he's over his injury concerns.

34:56

But he's only got four goals and four assists. So yes, it's an improvement on a current Paddy Roberts, but is it really what we need?

35:05

Like four and four, it's the best return in the world.

35:09

So I'm still a bit wary on that one. The only other one I've seen is a young lad called Drama.

35:15

He played in Sevilla's B team.

35:19

And I've seen a couple of stats thrown about. He's a striker,

35:23

but can play a right wing, left wing. 30 appearances, 10 goals, 3 assists and he's 22 which kind of seems to fit more with the model so,

35:33

yeah, 10 goals, 3 assists better than any of our strikes combined,

35:37

so see, what I would say about that again though, like again he deserves a chance

35:44

to prove himself but if you remember, Hamir was signed from Bixby with a similar

35:49

report, do you know what I mean? He was heading shoulders above everybody buddy. Wilson, who was.

35:55

Wasn't Wilson like second top scorer in his league last season?

35:58

Something like that. Something like that. From the left wing, he scored like 13 goals or something.

36:03

But again, he's never had the chance to play in that position,

36:06

has he? Because obviously Clark's been fit for the full season, except those 68 weeks.

36:11

And then Wilson also gets injured during that period, so he's never had a chance

36:15

to play in what probably is more his natural position. We'll see.

36:20

I'm expecting I'm expecting I'm expecting I don't want

36:23

to beat the same drum time and time again but those players

36:26

you've mentioned there I Chris Will a bit more

36:30

experienced but I just say it's a free so it's not really too much straying

36:33

away from the model that young lad to me if we're signing players like that

36:37

that is just potentially going to be the same mistake as we've made in signing

36:42

Hemea and Mayenda and obviously Burstow and Roosan so I think they probably

36:49

won't become them available till the end of the season.

36:53

But I think we definitely need, especially in the striker department,

36:55

we need a big midfielder and we need an experienced, no-nonsense striker just

37:00

to try and run the line. That's what we're sorely lacking in this.

37:04

Like you say, I mean, yesterday, again, it was just the same stuff when we'll

37:09

just pass it about, pass it about, pass it about. But nobody's trying to cut the

37:13

ball in over the top because we've got nobody to play on the back line.

37:18

Nobody to play on the shoulder, try and run in behind and stuff like that. again, like I say,

37:23

I've already stuck the knife in the dodges enough this episode but I just,

37:28

I know people say him as a top coach but I just don't get where they get that

37:32

from because I don't see what he's done.

37:34

Yeah, same but look, again it's always going to be negative after a defeat but

37:40

were there any positives would you say from yesterday?

37:45

Anything at all? We didn't come away with any injuries so So that's always a big one.

37:51

We've only got 90 minutes of football left. So that's two. I've got two already.

37:58

To be honest, we've only got one more game was my only positive.

38:02

And that's what it all seems like. I'm literally just thinking, one more to go. Let's just go and get it out of the way.

38:09

To be honest, yeah, I just think, just get this next 90 minutes out of the way.

38:15

If we finish it, so what? You know what I mean?

38:18

I'm past the point of care and now I know the season's over but.

38:23

God forbid this is the same thing next year God forbid It'll be a lot more toxic

38:28

next year if we haven't learned our lessons but I mean getting away from the

38:32

game one thing I do want to touch on,

38:35

obviously sad news news broke on Thursday morning I think it was that Charlie

38:39

Hurley had passed away at the age of 87,

38:42

so I think it's been pretty emotional week for Sunderland fans anyway

38:45

I mean obviously you know charlie hurley is well

38:48

before mine and your timely and probably for

38:51

the majority of people listening to this podcast but i mean to

38:54

me that's just testament to his legacy really and how

38:56

revered he was at sunderland that you know even if you

38:59

never saw him play by a good 50 years everyone at sunderland like knows him

39:04

charlie hurley yeah yeah credit to walkford as well by the way on this because

39:08

they put the the picture of him up on the scoreboard you know what i mean and

39:12

i i think that's a really nice touch from a club that as far as I'm aware, he never played for.

39:17

So yeah, fair play to Watford and obviously really sad news about Charlie Hurley's passing.

39:22

I mean, I say everyone at Sunderland knows Charlie Hurley. My mum didn't.

39:27

One story I will tell is my first ever Sunderland game was actually the last

39:34

game at Roker Park. It was a friendly against Liverpool.

39:37

And still to this day, I don't know the inside story of how it happened.

39:42

I don't know whether my mum told the stewards I was a make a wish kid or whatever, but like.

39:48

She somehow lagged us on like

39:51

the pitch before the game and we ended up going like

39:53

behind the scenes like in the tunnel in the dressing room and all sorts but

39:57

you could tell after about 20 minutes because my mom's not

40:00

really interested in football i think she just came along for

40:03

like the historic like significance or significance of it

40:06

you know what i mean last game at robert park so we're obviously there me

40:08

and my dad my brother and my mom and like by about

40:11

20 minutes of this vip treatment it's going to

40:14

my mom's head a bit and she's starting to like kind of you know

40:17

push our way down corridors push past people and she's

40:20

like putting it this old man kind of just dawdling

40:23

in front of us and like she like kind of

40:27

shrugged past him a little bit and i'll never forget my dad's face my

40:30

mom had only pushed past charlie early because he was player of

40:34

the century but no it was you know a massive massive i

40:37

think you know we it sounds really cliche but

40:40

like the word the the term legend gets thrown around a

40:43

lot done it especially at sunland but i think you know

40:46

he's he really is isn't he he's like really yeah

40:49

top table of legends really isn't he yeah and i was reading a story about during

40:54

the week i think it was 1967 or something well she was captain when we got promoted

41:00

in 64 our first ever promotion but he basically the pfa player of the year I

41:06

think it went to Bobby Moore. But like second runner up was actually Charlie Early even though Charlie Early

41:13

was playing in the second division at the time that's how well thought of he

41:17

was and I think you would get that happening now, No I don't like I say as long as my memory serves I've never seen a player in

41:26

the second division get anywhere near you know what I mean so.

41:29

Yeah like I say it's just a testament to the character he was and obviously

41:33

how much he loved the football so yeah just Like you say again,

41:36

it's really sad to see such a legend pass, you know what I mean?

41:41

Yeah, it'd be nice for the club, I think, to give them a bit of recognition as well.

41:45

I mean, you know, there's already been talk of a statue being built.

41:48

That would be my preference personally. But other people have said, you know, just being able to stand after him,

41:53

that sort of thing would be nice. But even I've heard a few people suggest that.

41:56

I think it'd be a nice little touch. Playing in white shorts next week, because for sort of most of the 60s and the early 70s,

42:04

we actually did play in wide shorts like during his era and I know it probably

42:08

doesn't feel very Sunderland-y but you know it'd just be a nice little nod I

42:12

think to him hopefully we can do something for him like you say Stan name Statue

42:17

again I think I agree with you it would be my preference just because of who he is you know what I mean,

42:22

yeah definitely rest in peace Charlie but

42:25

look we'll end on that you know thanks again everyone for taking the time to

42:29

listen to us if you don't already you can follow us on Twitter at sensible sefc

42:34

or by searching sensible sutherland on facebook and i mean as we've said look

42:39

this is one more to go let's just let's just get through it it's all right.

42:44

Music.