0:37

Most people don't realize that the biggest issue

0:39

is not building a list , it's actually mailing

0:41

the list . A list is almost like a guarantee

0:44

A new project you're going to be launching is

0:46

going to be successful , because these people

0:48

know you , like you , trust you and they want to buy

0:50

your stuff . So

1:01

an email customer will come into your store

1:03

, let's say , once a day for a month , and they'll

1:05

spend 20 bucks . And a social media

1:07

subscriber will frequent your store

1:09

for 30 days , like , well , they'll come in once

1:11

a day , but they'll only buy something one time

1:14

in that time span and they'll hey

1:22

, chandler Bolt .

1:23

Here and joining me today is Igor

1:25

Kavets . He's the

1:28

world's highest paid email marketer

1:30

. He specializes in helping people

1:32

break the link between time and income through

1:35

email marketing , and he's also

1:37

written a book maybe you've heard of it . It's called

1:40

List Building Lifestyle Confessions

1:43

of an Email Millionaire . So kind

1:45

of really cut his

1:47

teeth , earned his stripes whatever you can call it in

1:49

both email marketing and affiliate

1:52

marketing , so the intersection of both

1:54

, and so we'll be able to weave some of both

1:56

of those things in here . So that's

1:59

what we're really going to be talking about Email marketing . What

2:01

is it ? How do you do it ? Why is it

2:03

important ? Why is it important

2:05

as an author ? And then we might even get into some

2:07

affiliate marketing stuff as well , because

2:10

that's definitely a way to expand your income as

2:12

an author . But we got a lot of questions and

2:15

not a lot of time , so let's dive in , igor

2:17

, welcome .

2:17

Great to have you here . Thanks for having me . It's

2:20

a pleasure .

2:21

So we were talking about this beforehand

2:23

. I love this thought of you said hey , 500

2:26

email subscribers are worth way more than

2:29

5,000 social media followers

2:31

. Why is that true and

2:34

why is email marketing so powerful

2:37

?

2:41

You know I've discovered it the hard way because , just like everyone else , I've always wanted to

2:43

have a big social media following and I put a lot of work

2:45

that would , like you know , post a lot

2:47

and I would really invite people into my life

2:50

. I would show them photos of my kids and I'll

2:52

tell them oh , we're going here and we're on a vacation

2:54

there , and then I would post my inspirational

2:56

thoughts and lessons that I learned

2:59

and a bunch of stuff Right thoughts

3:03

and lessons that I learned and a bunch of stuff right . And initially , for the first maybe couple

3:05

of months , I've actually even got a few clients from it because , you know , apparently I was

3:07

tapping sort of a warm market , I guess

3:09

. But what I've continuously

3:12

ignored is that most of my income still came

3:14

from my email list and it

3:16

all came down to one time I was doing

3:19

a product launch , my own product . It's

3:21

a product I've , at this point , retired . It wasn't

3:23

a big hit . Apparently people weren't

3:25

really like much into it as much as

3:27

I am because of how much content I produce

3:29

, and you might be into something like this too . Basically

3:32

, at one point I realized that my speech and

3:34

my voice weren't really great . I

3:36

used to have a really thick , um kind

3:38

of russian , israeli accent on

3:41

my vocabulary wasn't great , but more

3:43

so my voice was very high pitch and

3:45

my breathing wasn't on point . So

3:47

I hired a coach on social dynamics

3:50

and things like that and he trained

3:52

me on how to be a better communicator

3:54

, not just , you know , speaking on podcasts

3:56

and whatnot , but just even in

3:58

general and in everyday life

4:00

or when having like a Zoom call with a potential

4:03

venture partner , because people judge

4:05

you based on your tone , voice , how

4:08

loud you are , you know

4:10

your pauses , whether you make any or not

4:12

. So I've really

4:14

got fascinated with that and I've created

4:16

a product for my own followers called

4:18

Voice that Makes Millions , and I

4:21

partnered up with that exact guy who taught me and I said you create the product that Makes

4:23

Millions . And I partnered up with that exact guy who taught me and I said you create the product , I

4:25

do the marketing . And

4:27

I was really excited about that project and we

4:29

launched it to my email list

4:31

and we must have sold 150

4:35

copies , maybe 200 copies , which

4:37

is not like crazy , but it's still good . But

4:39

what I've done during that launch is I

4:41

created two separate tracking links and

4:44

one of them went out to my list , my email

4:46

list , and another one went out to my social

4:48

media followers , and I deliberately broke

4:50

down my email list into segments and

4:52

I took a segment of about

4:55

7,500 subscribers that

4:57

were on my email list and the segment . I

4:59

believe at the time I had something like 75

5:02

or 7900 followers on

5:04

facebook and these were like really warm followers

5:07

like they . They knew who I was , they

5:09

knew what I stand for , they knew my message

5:11

, my usp , they've seen pictures

5:13

of my kids . You know like it's just very warm

5:16

followers . And I launched

5:18

at the same time for the for the next three days

5:20

. I was like pushing to these followers

5:22

, but there's separate tracking links and what I discovered

5:24

is that all the sales

5:27

came from email , none came

5:29

from social media . So even

5:31

though I was getting clicks and even though I was getting

5:33

likes on the posts and everything and comments

5:35

and people like saying oh , wow , that's amazing

5:37

, etc . Like it seems like they supported

5:39

the product launch with like , positive

5:42

comments and likes , but

5:45

they weren't necessarily taking out their credit card

5:47

to swipe it and it

5:49

was the email subscribers who did

5:52

. And then it got me so at the time

5:54

I'm already sold on the fact that email is

5:56

king , right , and you know there's lots and

5:58

lots of data about it . But I really started

6:00

looking into the data after this product launch and you know there's lots and lots of data about

6:02

it . But I really started looking into the data after this product launch and I've discovered lots

6:04

of really interesting stuff . First off , the the

6:07

. The facts became evident to

6:09

me . Like when you buy something on Amazon

6:11

, you get an email receipt . When you get a shipping

6:14

update , it goes to your email . When

6:16

you book you know an appointment

6:18

at the embassy to renew your passport , it

6:20

goes to your email . When you

6:22

sign a real estate deal , it goes to your email

6:25

. When you receive , like a Venmo

6:27

payment from your bank or from whatever , it

6:29

goes to your email . Everything goes to your email

6:31

. I mean there could be like another copy

6:33

going to your text message , but most

6:35

of the time you know you're asked for your email

6:37

. In fact , all the social media platforms ask you

6:40

for an email to get an account

6:42

on the platform . And so

6:44

that was like , ah , I see

6:46

why . And then I started

6:48

looking into different studies , different material

6:51

, and I found this interesting study which

6:53

I think really sums the whole thing

6:55

up . It was a marketing

6:58

study and

7:00

they've tested the first check

7:02

of the day . So the criteria

7:04

was three groups . First , one

7:06

checks their email first thing in the morning . Second

7:09

group checks their social media , whether

7:11

it's Instagram , facebook , tiktok , whatever , whatever

7:13

it is first thing in the morning . And the third group

7:15

checks like some sort

7:17

of news website or something

7:19

like that , like CNN , you know , first thing in

7:21

the morning , like some sort of news website or something like

7:23

that , like CNN , you know first thing in the morning . And they've tracked which group was a

7:25

more rabid buyer group , like which one

7:27

supported businesses by actually buying from them . And

7:35

what they've discovered is that the first check of the day email group was the only one

7:37

that was like feeling that to support

7:39

a business they are ought to buy

7:41

something . The group that was checking social first

7:43

. To support a business , they ought to buy something . The group that was checking

7:45

social first thing in the morning , they

7:47

genuinely felt that by liking a post or commenting on the post or even

7:49

sharing the post , they've done their

7:51

part , and that mindset

7:54

fundamentally made the

7:56

difference between a business making money

7:58

and not making money . Then I started looking into

8:00

other stuff . I won't bore you with the numbers . Just

8:08

one study that was done by mail munch uh established that an email subscriber

8:10

buys nine times more often and spends up to 20

8:12

times more money compared to

8:15

a social media subscriber . Which means , if

8:18

you like , if you have a shop of some kind

8:20

and you can choose between two types of customers

8:22

an email customer and a social media

8:24

customer . So an email customer will come

8:26

into your store , let's say , once a day for

8:28

a month , and they'll buy something

8:31

, uh like 10 times 9

8:33

to 10 times in that month and they'll spend

8:35

20 bucks . And a social media

8:37

um subscriber will

8:39

frequent your store for 30 days , like

8:41

well , they'll come in once a day but they'll spend

8:43

. They'll only buy something one

8:45

time in that time span and they'll spend a dollar

8:48

, that's crazy .

8:50

So I guess I mean the

8:52

evidence is clear , and I've seen this in my own business

8:54

as well is , email subscribers

8:56

are worth way more than social media followers

8:58

, and it's just one of the best ways best , most

9:00

predictable ways you can grow your business , you

9:03

can get reviews , you can engage with

9:05

readers , and so , authors

9:07

, it's going to be , you know , way

9:10

more beneficial and a way better use of your time

9:12

to you know

9:14

, a lot of times people are like oh , as an author , I need to start

9:16

doing social media . And if , instead , you

9:18

said , hey , how can I start building my email

9:20

list ? You're going to sell more books , grow your business

9:23

, get more reviews . There's a lot of things that you can do there

9:25

, and so it's

9:27

a much better use of your time . And to your point

9:29

, igor , you can't take likes and

9:32

comments to the bank . It's

9:34

not going to pay your mortgage , and so

9:36

I guess let's

9:39

talk about the why and how authors

9:42

need to build an email list and how

9:44

they can use an email list

9:46

to start selling more books , get more views , grow

9:48

their business that sort of thing .

9:50

Yeah , absolutely . And just so people know

9:52

, I have the authority

9:55

to talk about this . I am an author myself , right

9:58

, and I used email to launch this book

10:00

a couple of years back . You know

10:02

, I really I really wanted to practice

10:04

what I preach , because it is a book about list

10:07

building , and so what I've done again

10:09

just to give you guys an idea

10:11

about how powerful this is what I've

10:13

done is I took a 10,000 person segment

10:15

of my email list , of my most engaged

10:18

, if you will , followers , and I've

10:21

just , you know , a few days before the book

10:23

was going live , I was still getting proofread

10:26

we're still like finalizing the cover . I

10:28

said , hey guys on I

10:31

think it was on Friday . I was like on Friday

10:33

, my book is launching on Amazon

10:35

and I didn't do the whole pre-sale

10:38

thing . You know how people publish a book and they

10:40

can like the book isn't published yet , but they're

10:42

like launching already . So I didn't do that I

10:45

should have , but I didn't . I

10:47

said my book is launching Friday and I'm going to be doing something special

10:49

, so keep an eye out and if you're , and

10:51

I'm going to be giving away some prizes as well and bonuses

10:54

, so if you're

10:56

really like into notified an hour ahead of everyone

10:58

else . Here's like a link

11:00

. You can sign up there , like for

11:02

free email updates , and it's basically like a

11:05

very simple capture page that basically says the

11:07

book is going live on Friday . We're going to open the

11:09

link , you know , an hour before . If you want to get

11:11

on the early bird plus get bonuses , give

11:13

me your email and I'll send you an update . And

11:16

so , of the 10,000 people , I think

11:18

about 700 and 900 people or

11:20

so said yeah , I want to get notified early

11:22

bird . And then , when it launched

11:24

, I simply put a very

11:26

simple page like super simple one pager

11:29

that had a video of me at the top

11:31

where I was basically

11:33

saying hey guys , my book is launching

11:35

. I really want one for it to become a

11:37

bestseller , which is why , if you get

11:39

the book , the physical copy of the book and I was

11:41

holding the book in my hand if you get the physical copy

11:44

of this book , I will give you

11:46

a bonus , and I don't recall exactly

11:48

what the bonus was , but it was worth more

11:50

than the book , which is how you

11:52

should structure your bonuses . But I guess that's

11:55

content for a different episode . And then I said if you

11:57

want to get the Kindle version , then

11:59

I'll give you this bonus . It was a different bonus

12:01

, but if you get both the physical

12:04

version and the Kindle version , I'll give you

12:06

a bonus package , and that bonus

12:08

package was actually worth more than

12:10

the bonus for the physical book and the bonus for

12:12

the Kindle book . So it was like it was a no brainer . But

12:14

I made it a no brainer . So people buy

12:17

two copies , both the physical and

12:19

the Kindle version , and I said , once you

12:21

buy it , all I need you to do is

12:23

to send me your email

12:25

receipt to this address . Just forward it , just the

12:27

receipt you got from Amazon . Just you know , hit

12:29

forward and send it to our support desk and

12:32

we will reply right back with your bonuses

12:34

, which I believe . The bonus was

12:36

a one year membership to my mastermind

12:39

and a few programs that

12:41

I released in previous years that cost

12:43

like collectively over a few thousand dollars that I

12:45

was giving them for free . Again , no brainer

12:47

for most people , especially if they wanted to get the book , which

12:49

many of them wanted . And so

12:52

what this created ? I did it for 72

12:54

hours . This created a

12:56

rush of people buying the book , which

12:58

is what's required for the book to become a bestseller

13:01

, which it did in three different categories , like

13:04

business categories , and what's interesting is that

13:06

I didn't know this , but I

13:08

was launching the book the same week

13:10

that Gary Vee was launching his , so

13:13

I kept seeing my book and

13:15

his book on the leaderboard . So it didn't really

13:17

matter whether you're competing against

13:19

other , like big authors or whatever . You

13:22

can still do this because of the spike you're creating

13:24

as a result of launching . And this really , in

13:27

my opinion , shows the power

13:29

of a list , because I've done this numerous times

13:31

with all kinds of projects . I've done this

13:33

with product launches and I do this

13:36

all the time . At least once every few months I'll do

13:38

it . Most recently I did one in August . We

13:42

had a $2 , 2500 program , uh , which we launched and we

13:44

sold 108 units to our list again

13:46

, just drop an email , invite it to a webinar

13:49

, bam um . I've done it with my podcast

13:51

to get into the new and noteworthy

13:54

on apple podcasts . When I launched

13:56

it , uh , I mean , I've done it with

13:58

my seminar the one , the one and only seminar

14:00

, because it's a very stressful thing to do , but

14:02

the one we did , you know , sold out

14:05

very fast , again thanks to the list . So

14:07

the list is almost like a guarantee

14:09

, you know , in a sense , that a new

14:11

project you're going to be launching is going

14:13

to be successful , Because these people

14:15

know you , like you , trust you and they're just . You

14:18

know they want to buy stuff .

14:19

That's great . So let's maybe split the

14:22

rest of this episode in two parts . Let's talk list

14:24

building and then let's talk monetization

14:26

, and so I guess let's

14:29

just go through some of the basics

14:31

. For people who are new to this Best

14:38

email marketing software , especially for people who are just getting started , or authors who are , maybe

14:40

they don't have a list . So they heard what you said and they're like , hey , that's

14:42

cool , that'll help launch the book , but I don't have a list

14:44

yet . What's the best software people can

14:46

get started ?

14:47

with . Yeah , you know , there's so much

14:49

software . I mean there's , I

14:51

mean dozens and dozens of them at this point , and

14:53

I've tested dozens of them

14:55

. I've got suspended from several

14:57

of them as well , because as I was growing

14:59

my business over the years , I was trying all kinds of stuff

15:02

. I even done some blackhead stuff I'm really

15:04

just not proud of , but I've done

15:06

it . And the one that I'd recommend

15:08

to brand new people like if you're a brand

15:10

new creator and

15:13

you're an author or you're a course creator or anything like that

15:15

, I'd say ConvertKit is a pretty good

15:18

piece of software . If you're in e-commerce

15:20

meaning you've got like a Shopify store selling

15:23

widgets or coffee makers

15:25

or whatever Klaviyo

15:27

seems to be the most popular choice . There's

15:29

also a company called ActiveCampaign

15:32

. I believe that's also pretty popular . There's

15:34

MailChimp , which is like

15:37

a flagship software

15:39

, and they've grown really big . That's probably the most popular

15:41

platform . And finally

15:43

, there was one more I wanted to mention and

15:46

I forgot . Yeah , but ConvertKit

15:48

is definitely the simplest one . Oh

15:50

right , if you're into affiliate marketing

15:52

, because you mentioned that , we will be

15:54

briefly talking about this . For affiliate

15:56

marketing , I'd say

15:59

GetResponse is the better platform , because

16:01

I believe MailChimp and other platforms do not

16:03

allow affiliates .

16:05

That's good . Yeah , those are some good ones . All

16:09

right , now we've chosen a software . What's

16:11

the fastest path to your first

16:14

1,000 subscribers ? For most

16:16

people , and especially for authors

16:18

, how can they use maybe their book to

16:20

get subscribers and really focus

16:23

on kind of that first ?

16:23

1,000 ? Yeah , I believe

16:25

, a great example of how to get to your first

16:28

1,000 subscribers . If

16:30

you go and study authors like tim ferris

16:33

or james clear , um , they've

16:35

got this down . Uh , what you

16:37

want is to either give away a

16:39

free chapter of your book for free , um

16:41

, or you you know some tip

16:43

or secret or strategy from your

16:45

book . Package it into something you

16:48

can give away . Now , this could be a video . This could

16:50

be a video . This could be a PDF , this

16:52

could be e-course , meaning

16:54

it's delivered over emails over the course

16:56

of like 7 , 14 , 30 days , etc . But

16:59

usually for authors I'd say a

17:01

free chapter of your book is

17:04

a great strategy and what you want to have is just

17:06

one page it's called the capture page or

17:08

squeeze page that has a big

17:10

headline . It says free chapter

17:13

or , you know , free for

17:15

a limited time , and then the big promise

17:18

of what that chapter is going to teach . For example

17:20

, if you've got a book on productivity , let's

17:23

say again , I'm just trying to make

17:25

this up right now let's say you've got a book on

17:27

productivity for moms

17:29

, right , your big claim

17:31

on the page would be something like how

17:34

to , how to kick ass , get

17:36

stuff done , all

17:38

the while you know and and and

17:40

and and be home in time for dinner

17:42

or something like that , I don't know . Basically

17:45

, whatever the dream outcome for a

17:47

working mom is , that would

17:49

be the big promise . And then a little form

17:51

that says enter your email here and a

17:53

button that says , okay , submit . And once they

17:55

give you their email , you send them the

17:57

lead magnet . We call it the lead magnet

18:00

, and that's the first requirement . The next

18:02

requirement , of course , you need eyeballs

18:04

, so you need traffic , you need exposure

18:07

, and so this is where there's so

18:10

many schools of thought , including the social

18:12

media school of thought , where you have to create content

18:14

to attract people . And what

18:16

I would say here is this For each and every market

18:18

, there's probably the most preferred

18:21

go-to strategy , but

18:23

, generally speaking , there's the free methods

18:25

, there's the paid methods . I'm big

18:27

on the paid methods personally . Free

18:29

methods , in my opinion , are very time

18:32

consuming . You

18:34

also need to have the skill set of content creation

18:36

. You need the skill set if you're doing seo

18:38

, for example , which I wouldn't consider as like

18:40

a free method . It's still pretty technical

18:43

and you've got to buy tools and you gotta buy

18:45

backlinks , and so it's pretty technical . For me

18:47

, paid traffic is the way to go because

18:49

you can buy your way up , so , so to speak . So

18:51

it's things like running ads , and

18:55

ad platforms are meta , so

18:58

Facebook , instagram , google

19:00

so that's AdWords , pay-per-click

19:03

traffic and YouTube ads . There's also

19:05

a strategy that I like to use , which is called

19:07

email drops , which we can discuss in

19:09

a bit . There's also native

19:11

ads , which is ads that go on news websites

19:14

. So , for example , if your book is

19:16

in some sort of health

19:18

niche let's say your book is about prostate

19:21

issues and how to help

19:23

men with their prostate issues then that

19:26

will actually go really well on news

19:28

websites because many

19:31

product owners in that niche will

19:33

advertise on those sites . And this is I

19:35

mean . We're not going to get too deep into the paid ads

19:38

, it's just a tip . You want to go

19:40

where the other paid advertisers in your

19:42

niche are . So if everyone in

19:44

your niche is advertising on Facebook like

19:46

and actually throwing a lot of money at it , that's probably

19:48

where you want to be Cool , that's good .

19:50

I hope you're loving this episode so far

19:52

. So if you're serious about writing

19:54

and publishing your book , we would love to chat

19:56

with you and help create a custom plan

19:58

. All right , so all you need to do right now is go

20:00

to selfpublishingcom forward

20:03

slash schedule . Schedule a 45

20:05

minute consultation with one of the experts

20:07

on my team . All right , let's implement what

20:09

you're learning in this episode and let's see

20:11

how we can help with your book . Go to selfpublishingcom

20:15

forward slash schedule . I want to key in on

20:17

two things and then I'll ask

20:19

a follow-up question . So one is

20:21

one thing that's worked well for us . I

20:23

love that . You said the bonus chapter and stuff

20:26

like that , and for those who are watching

20:28

on the YouTube channel , you can kind of see this . But

20:30

at the beginning of my book , I give away

20:32

the audio book for free and

20:34

I give away a video , a video

20:36

summary , which is really just my best performing

20:39

webinar for free , and so

20:41

what we found is what's the last thing

20:43

that people want to do when they start reading a book is

20:46

read something else , and so

20:48

they probably don't even have time

20:50

to read this book , right , and so if you can go after

20:52

them in a different modality , it's interesting . So

20:54

the audio book has inherent

20:56

value . This costs 15 to 20 bucks

20:58

, right . And then the video . It's oh

21:01

, video summary , cool , let me check

21:03

that out . And that's again a high-performing webinar

21:05

, which also converts them into a paying customer

21:07

for us at selfpublishingcom

21:09

. So

21:18

those two things have worked really well . There's embedding throughout your book of helpful tools

21:20

of you know , if I'm talking about how to outline a book , then maybe in that chapter I'm going to

21:22

say , hey , we've got an outline template

21:24

generator . Go here , right , and

21:26

so a few things like that . And then one

21:28

thing I would say is chapter 16

21:31

in my book called Published , published I talked

21:33

about specifically building your

21:35

email list using a book , how

21:37

I did it and how we recommend people do it

21:39

. It's when my first book

21:42

that I didn't even know what an email list was

21:44

, and but then we we

21:46

created one in the first book , brought in 4,000

21:49

leads within a handful of months , so

21:51

, which was crazy to me . And so we had a problem that not

21:54

many people have , which is we had an email list and

21:56

nothing to sell them , versus most

21:58

people have a product with no email

22:00

list , right , and so let's

22:03

maybe talk about that

22:05

next step , okay , once I've started building an

22:07

email list . How do I monetize this list

22:10

and make it worth it for me as

22:12

an author and as an entrepreneur ?

22:14

This is where things get really fun for authors

22:16

, in my opinion . If you already , if you

22:18

started building a list , now , the

22:20

world is your oyster because you can choose

22:22

to take your business into any direction . First

22:25

off , you can choose to publish your next book . You

22:27

can pre-sell your next book . I know people

22:29

who , like , just decided to write the next book

22:31

, put up a cover on Amazon , listed on Amazon

22:33

as a pre-sale and sold

22:36

for 20 bucks per unit . So that's

22:38

really cool . In my opinion . The next thing

22:41

you can do is take your book and turn

22:43

it into a course , because a

22:45

book is a course in

22:47

a different format , really . You mentioned modalities

22:50

. This is very , very true . So once

22:52

people have consumed your book , then

22:54

you can go and expand on

22:56

what you taught in the book inside a course . For example

22:58

, there's a great author out there , one

23:01

of my favorites for sure . His name is Chris

23:04

Voss . He wrote Never Split the Difference

23:06

. So Chris

23:08

done something really interesting , so

23:10

he got this book , which is his flagship

23:12

, right ? Everyone knows him because of the book , but

23:14

then from the book they've

23:17

developed courses . So he teaches

23:19

negotiations . He's like

23:21

a former FBI negotiator . And so

23:23

then what he , what he done after the book

23:25

. He actually has specific like section on the website

23:27

that says okay , you read the book , now what

23:29

? And he's got okay , so here's a course

23:31

on negotiations

23:33

for realtors , negotiations for

23:36

corporate CEOs . So they've developed

23:38

a bunch of courses for different segments of

23:40

their market where they expand

23:43

on the strategies in the book as

23:45

well as they run workshops

23:47

helping people practice what's

23:49

in the book . Because while people will

23:51

read your book and they'll love what

23:53

you're saying , many of them will not implement . I

23:55

mean , let's face it , many of them won't even finish

23:57

it . But those who read the book and get the gist

24:00

of what you're teaching , they won't implement

24:02

it on their own and so they'll come looking

24:04

for additional help , which comes in the form

24:06

of more detailed instructions

24:09

. You mentioned you've got a template generator . So if you

24:11

can incorporate a software component , that's

24:13

always welcome

24:15

. There's like one-on-one work you can do . You can do

24:17

group coaching . You can do workshops . You know , in

24:19

person , physically , you can do workshops online

24:22

over Zoom . Really

24:24

, it's now going deeper

24:26

into what you teach and offering different

24:28

formats for different buckets

24:31

of your market . And so let's

24:33

say you've decided to do a group workshop

24:36

on publishing your book and you're looking for

24:38

five people that you're going to take from

24:40

no book , no idea , to

24:42

an outline , to a draft , to

24:45

draft , plus cover , to like

24:47

a listing on Amazon and launch . Well

24:49

, let's say , each is 10 grand and

24:52

you know , now you have 4,000 people on your

24:54

list . All you have to do is just put up an offer

24:56

.

24:56

Scrambling for the unmute button . I

24:59

love that . So let's talk about so

25:02

. Those are ways that you can monetize . And then obviously

25:04

you can monetize , you

25:07

know , through follow-up and email . Hey , you love the book

25:09

now announcing the launch of the course

25:12

, right , and so you can do promotions around that

25:14

you can also . I

25:16

talk about in my book what

25:18

we call like the review sweeper , which is

25:20

a follow-up campaign when people join your list

25:23

from your book to ask them- .

25:25

Yeah , we bribe people to post reviews

25:27

on Amazon .

25:28

Yeah , yeah totally . And

25:33

so it can help with reviews

25:35

, it can help with repurchase , it can help with a

25:37

bunch of stuff like that . So I

25:39

guess maybe let's touch

25:41

on that , because I just want to make sure we're

25:43

speaking both advanced and

25:45

beginners here as best as we can

25:48

. It's a hard thing to do . But so

25:50

for folks who aren't familiar , there's follow-up

25:53

campaigns and what we would call like

25:55

an evergreen follow-up campaign , and then there's one-off

25:58

promotions . Right , you might have different

26:00

wording for those , but a follow-up campaign

26:02

is when someone's come , comes into your ecosystem

26:05

, so maybe they opted in for something and they go

26:07

into a seven-day sequence , and

26:09

then you've got your kind of

26:11

promotional blasts or emails

26:14

that you send out , and you might do that once

26:17

a week , twice a week , more than that

26:19

. You might , you know , maybe be on

26:21

a lower cadence than that , but

26:23

let's break those two pieces apart . What have you

26:25

found helps makes

26:27

the best follow-up campaign that

26:30

either leads to reviews or sales . And

26:32

then , flip side , what makes the best

26:34

one-off email

26:36

promotions ?

26:37

Okay . So the evergreen campaigns

26:39

or the follow-up campaigns , they're

26:41

pretty like it's a set and forget . So

26:44

you build them once and they do your work

26:46

for you 24 seven . Even if somebody opts

26:48

in at 3 am , they start getting

26:50

your emails . So for me

26:52

, what works best is simply starting

26:55

to pitch your offer right

26:57

away . So , for example , when

26:59

somebody buys my book and let's say they

27:01

buy it through my website and not from Amazon , which

27:03

is where I would get their email address In fact , you

27:05

can go check out my funnel at igorsbookcom

27:08

to see how I do it what happens is

27:10

immediately we'll follow up and we'll ask

27:12

for review first , and then we'll also

27:14

offer them additional

27:17

material , additional courses , additional stuff

27:19

that expands on what's in the book

27:21

. Inside the book itself , there's

27:23

also a link to a bonus page where

27:25

I'm pointing them to different webinars

27:28

that I have . Just like you , you know , we

27:30

have like our flagship stuff

27:32

. So you know , in my case there's

27:34

like five of them . So I you know , if

27:36

you're looking to solve this problem , go here . If you're looking to solve

27:38

that problem . Like , if you want more traffic

27:41

, here's a webinar you should watch . If you want more

27:43

, you know conversion strategies , here's a webinar you should

27:45

watch . And the other thing we do

27:47

that isn't exactly email

27:49

related , but still pretty important in my opinion

27:51

if you're gonna sell your book , if you're gonna self

27:54

publish the book is we use

27:56

a book funnel where

27:58

people can buy the book from us . They

28:00

pay for shipping . We don't charge them for the book , but we

28:02

charge them for the shipping because shipping

28:04

is expensive and once they

28:06

buy the book , we have order bumps and

28:09

we've got upsells too , so order

28:11

bombs can be other stuff that's

28:13

helpful for the book , and

28:15

upsells could be just additional

28:17

courses and things that

28:19

we believe somebody who's interested in reading a

28:22

book like this will be interested

28:24

in . And that's been pretty

28:26

important . In fact , what I've found is somebody

28:29

who buys the book from me this

28:31

is surprising , but that's what my numbers show

28:33

Somebody who buys a free book

28:35

, which essentially to say they get

28:37

the book for free but pay 10 bucks for shipping if they're

28:39

in the U S , or 20 , if they're outside the U S

28:41

? Um , they're a more valuable

28:44

customer than somebody

28:46

who buys a $500 item right off

28:48

the bat . It's , it's nuts , it's crazy

28:50

, but it's true . Uh , so so

28:52

for me , as soon as I launched my book funnel , that's

28:56

been very , very profitable for

28:58

my business . Just start

29:01

promoting something right away . I mean

29:03

, if you have something to promote , if not

29:05

, then find affiliate offers , find offers in

29:07

your niche , that kind of complement

29:09

what you do and promote them

29:11

.

29:12

I love that you talked about book funnels , because those work

29:14

incredibly well for us . I mean incredibly

29:16

well . It's just a great example I was taught

29:18

. I was speaking in a mastermind the other day and

29:21

I reminded him of a quote that I love

29:23

, or saying that I love around , uh

29:26

, the concept of hey , as as

29:28

entrepreneurs or marketers

29:30

, we get tired of our marketing way

29:32

, way before our audience does , and

29:36

so I think a lot of people could hear oh

29:38

, free plus shipping , book funnel , that's

29:40

so a decade ago

29:42

, right , and those things don't still work

29:45

, right , but in the same , in the same way that people

29:47

have been saying email marketing is going to die

29:49

, for , yeah , it's dead , for They've been saying it's dead

29:51

.

29:52

Yeah , it's dead . You know , on one of my webinars I

29:56

like to show two images . One is from

29:58

2011, . Wall Street

30:00

Journal saying email is dead , and then 2019

30:03

, Wall Street Journal saying email is dead

30:05

and it's not dead , you know .

30:07

Yeah , I mean it's . Both

30:09

are incredibly effective and they're really , really powerful

30:12

. And so the Free Plus Shipping shipping funnel is a great way to

30:14

get subscribers , but not just , to

30:16

your point , subscribers , it's paying

30:18

customers , and because they paid

30:20

and and you know , we know people

30:22

who pay pay attention , right , so they're not

30:25

just on your email list , they're a buyer . And

30:27

then , to your point , it's kind of a wild stat

30:29

that they would be worth more than someone who paid 500

30:31

bucks . But on the other hand , it

30:34

makes sense because there's reciprocity

30:37

built in , because you're giving them

30:39

something of high value . And then you

30:41

are now high value because you're an author

30:43

, right , so you've instantly elevated your

30:45

status to that customer . So

30:48

I think , on those tokens , it definitely

30:50

makes sense . Let's do a couple of

30:52

final questions here , then we'll wrap up . Once

30:55

I've gotten an email list , how often should

30:57

I email them ? And any tips

30:59

on email writing so that

31:01

it isn't a burden ? So that it isn't a

31:03

burden , I think , with a lot of folks in our world , the

31:06

mistake I'll see people make is they'll

31:08

build an email list . They might

31:10

have a few hundred people or a couple thousand people

31:12

. They're just starting to to get traction , and then they stop

31:14

emailing them and then six months later

31:16

, they've got a quote unquote dead list

31:19

and they don't know what to do with it . So how can people

31:21

avoid that ? How often should they email them

31:23

and some tips on how to ? Uh

31:25

, it's funny you mentioned that question

31:27

, but you're like the first person who

31:29

mentions that out loud .

31:31

Um , most people don't talk about

31:33

it at all . They don't realize that the biggest

31:35

issue is not building a list , is actually

31:37

mailing the list . And what I

31:39

see is that it's the single most

31:42

challenging thing for people , whether

31:44

I know psychologically , mentally , whatever they

31:46

just don't email their list . You're absolutely right . Like

31:48

they'll start building it but they won't send the emails

31:50

. And I haven't figured out yet what

31:53

exactly the reason is . Like

31:55

maybe they're afraid to alienate people , they're

31:57

afraid to say something wrong , they're afraid of getting unsubscribed

32:00

or spam complaints . But I'll share my

32:02

approach to email marketing and then you

32:04

know , whoever wants to try it out , we'll

32:06

try it out . I email every day , and that's

32:08

way more than most people are willing to email

32:10

way more often , if you will

32:12

. But on some days I email five

32:15

times a day . Like if there's a product launch and

32:17

it's the last day of the product launch , I'll email

32:19

five times . I'll be really

32:22

hammering that deadline . I'll be really pushing

32:24

on that scarcity button . And

32:26

to the naysayers who will say , well , that's

32:28

not the way to manage a list , I'll say this On

32:34

a recent affiliate competition that I participated in where I landed third

32:36

in the competition . I pulled in

32:38

as many sales on the last day

32:40

of the competition as I did in the

32:42

previous six days of

32:44

the promotion . That last day alone

32:47

just was responsible for almost half

32:49

the sales . People will sit on their hands

32:51

. People will wait for the very last second before they act . So you have to push harder

32:53

towards the end . People will sit on their hands . People will wait for the very last second before they act , so you have

32:55

to push harder towards the end . But yeah

32:58

, I mail every day . There hasn't

33:00

been a day in the last 10 years that I haven't

33:02

sent out an email and I recommend

33:04

everyone does the same . Even if you don't pitch

33:06

anything in your emails , you still want to mail every day

33:08

. So people don't forget about

33:10

you , because if you don't just like

33:12

you said , you don't mail the list six months later you've

33:15

got a dead list . It's because it's one of those

33:17

things where you don't use it , you lose it . If they signed

33:19

up on your list and you didn't start emailing them

33:21

right away , they forget who you are and

33:23

the next time you'll email they'll be like what , igor

33:25

? Who ?

33:42

And they just hit the spam button because they only even remember getting getting on your list . That's good . That's why follow-up campaigns

33:44

are really important when people subscribe . So what about folks who maybe have a smaller list and they don't have

33:46

their maybe time strap ? What's the minimum that you see ? That's like okay , if you just like

33:48

at a minimum , do this so that you can keep that

33:50

list at least somewhat engaged

33:52

as you're growing .

33:53

At the minimum , try mailing twice

33:55

, three times a week , at the very minimum

33:57

, like at least , please , otherwise

34:00

you just lose the list . And as

34:02

far as for the email writing , not to

34:04

take too much time Although I mean , I'm assuming most

34:06

people listening here are into

34:08

some form of writing . Writing

34:11

emails is actually like the way I look

34:13

at it . I wasn't a writer when I started

34:15

doing email marketing . I got lucky

34:17

because I wasn't

34:19

great at writing . English is not my

34:21

native language , it's actually my third language

34:24

, so I didn't feel particularly

34:26

comfortable writing in English . My

34:28

mentor used to call me Borat because of how

34:31

I used to speak broken English

34:33

. What saved

34:35

me was to realize that great

34:38

email marketing is template-based

34:40

, just like great copywriting . In fact , I

34:42

even go as far as saying just the great books

34:44

you know , the Tom Clancy's of the world , the Stephen

34:46

King's of the world they write according to a template

34:48

of some sort the way the story develops

34:50

, the way that they develop their characters . It's

34:52

always about a template . And so I

34:55

came across several info

34:57

marketers who were teaching this and they were like sharing

34:59

their actual email templates , where

35:02

you just had to fill in the blanks about the particular

35:04

product or service you were promoting and

35:06

that made me realize that email

35:08

marketing is not complicated and shouldn't take a lot of

35:10

time , where you can just fill in the blanks for

35:12

your particular product as long as you have a

35:14

large arsenal of templates , and

35:17

that was before chat gpt . Now

35:19

that we have chat gpt , um , we

35:21

don't even need the templates anymore , because all

35:24

the knowledge about copy and email

35:26

marketing has already been dumped into

35:28

chat gpt . Uh , so the only

35:30

reason to customize it is is if

35:32

you want it to sound like you , which is very easy

35:34

to do . But today you can just use

35:36

chat gpt and ask it to write

35:39

those emails for you , and even ask

35:41

it to write in the voices of the great

35:43

copywriters . So you can

35:45

go and you say , hey , write an email about this , this

35:47

, this and this , in the style of

35:49

the great late gary helbert

35:51

, and it'll just write for you

35:53

. And then you might need to tweak it a little

35:55

bit , but it'll take you five to 10 minutes to

35:57

do so . Cool , good tips .

35:59

And I got a lot more questions I can ask you , but we're

36:02

out of time so I'll end

36:04

with this . Let's

36:06

see what's your parting piece of advice for

36:09

the Igor from years ago , before you got

36:11

into email marketing , and maybe the other Igors

36:14

out there who are like hey , I know

36:16

, I need to build an email list . What would be your parting piece

36:18

of advice for them ?

36:19

Yeah , that's a great question . I

36:21

call him . I call him the old Igor . You know

36:23

he's overweight and he's frustrated and broke

36:25

. That's where I started . The advice

36:27

is just to start building a list , because it took

36:30

me about three and a half years before I realized I needed

36:32

to build one and I feel that time was wasted

36:34

because these days , looking back

36:36

when I drop an email to my

36:38

list , I've got people on the list who've been there for like seven

36:40

years , eight years , five years

36:42

, and they've been buying all this time

36:44

. There's also people who've been on the list for five years and haven't

36:47

bought anything and then just one particular

36:49

thing gets them right . So

36:54

I'd say it's kind of like planting a tree . When's the best time to plant

36:56

a tree ? 10 years ago ? When's the next best time now ? I think that's the

36:58

most important thing . Everything you're doing

37:00

in your business as

37:02

an author , it should

37:04

all lead back to your email list

37:06

. So if you've got a website , there should be an opt-in

37:09

form . If you've got a book , put a link in

37:11

the book for them to go and opt

37:13

in . If you're selling it through Amazon and Barnes and Noble

37:15

or something , if you're self-publishing , always collect

37:17

the email address . Again , you can go to igorsbookcom

37:20

and check out my funnel . It's basically

37:23

one page where I'm selling the book and

37:25

when you buy it I ask you for your email address

37:27

. That's the whole point . If I run ads to that funnel , I'm losing money

37:29

up front , but point I'm actually . You know , if I run ads to that funnel , I'm

37:32

losing money up front , but I'm fine with it because

37:34

I'm building my list . That's what's most important

37:36

.

37:37

It's good Igor , this has been awesome

37:39

. Thank you , where can people go to

37:41

find out more about you , your

37:44

courses , your book or whatever might

37:46

be most helpful ?

37:46

Yeah , you can go to igorkavitzcom

37:49

just my full namecom

37:51

. You can also go and check out

37:54

the book funnel , like I said , which I think is

37:56

a great thing you can emulate , because

37:58

the book funnel , as we've discussed in this episode

38:00

, is an underappreciated

38:02

asset that can make you a lot of money and

38:04

make you a better author , a more influential

38:07

author , if you will . So it's igorsbookcom

38:10

and the book looks like this it's called

38:13

the List Building Lifestyle Confessions of an

38:15

Email Millionaire . You can go through that funnel . You

38:21

can see the order bumps . I'm using the upsells , I'm using how I'm collecting email addresses . What

38:23

do I send in the first follow-up , second follow-up message . This is , in general

38:26

, a good practice . I like to

38:28

what Russell Brunson coined as

38:30

funnel hacking . Know

38:32

, find someone you can emulate , someone

38:35

who's like a little bit ahead of where you are today

38:37

in a certain department , and then go

38:39

through their stuff , like as a customer

38:41

, and then you realize oh , I see what they're doing

38:43

. Oh , they're sending an email this way . Oh

38:45

, it looks like you know three emails

38:47

in three days . That's interesting . I wonder , why is that

38:50

so then you start noticing stuff as

38:52

well as take their stuff you know and fill

38:54

in the blanks with your own . That's again that's

38:56

how I started . Like I would get Frank Kern's

38:58

emails and I would be like I wonder if I

39:00

can switch that for like this other product

39:02

. And then I would like rewrite half of it and I was like , yeah

39:04

, that fits , so that's , that's

39:07

how we learn .

39:07

Agreed , we'll check it out . Check out the book funnel

39:10

igorsbookcom

39:13

. I-g-o-r-s

39:15

bookcom igorsbookcom

39:18

. Check it out , y'all , igor , thank you , thanks

39:21

. Thank you so much for watching

39:23

or listening to this episode of

39:25

the Self-Publishing School Podcast . I know there's so many

39:27

places that you could be spending your time . There's other podcasts

39:29

that you could be listening to , youtube channels that you'd be

39:32

watching , so thank you so much . It means the world . Now

39:34

I want you to do three things right now if

39:36

you found this episode helpful . I don't know if you know this

39:38

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39:42

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39:45

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39:52

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39:56

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39:58

Leave a review on the podcast

40:00

. All right , reviews are super important and

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40:05

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40:09

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