0:00

Good afternoon. This is from,

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and we are doing this session podcast today with members from Kaab Film Collective who are opening the exhibition.

0:10

They pretending not to see us tonight.

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Uh It a session um The film they show um it's kind of we cut this out,

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sorry. Uh They are presenting their latest film night fishing with ancestors at the car Fisher cabinet.

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That's a session and the film spans from kind of makes an historic span from the beginning of trade,

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uh friendly trade relationships with Maan seafaring people.

0:44

Uh until the contemporary times,

0:46

uh we meet Captain Cook who landed in Australia in 17 70 but also we see miners of today.

0:55

Um And a lot of kind of everyday problems indigenous people in Australia confronted.

1:01

Um Caribbean film collective makes films since 10 years and maybe let's start a little bit at the beginning.

1:08

Um What was the original idea to start making films?

1:17

So sorry, I have to briefly,

1:21

I need to introduce like I,

1:23

I need to interrupt like there is like,

1:25

I barely ever do that. But like one thing is like,

1:27

you can hear the hands, you barely hear it now.

1:30

I hear it a lot later on. It's being amplified.

1:32

The small sounds and I need to reposition the microphone because it's I can hear,

1:39

I can hear the breathing very loud. So like it helps a bit like to have it.

1:42

No, no, no, you can say it close. It's just a matter of I position the microphone wrong.

1:46

Oh What you do is perfect. It's just my Yeah.

1:50

Yeah, perfect. And I start again because I need to introduce you,

1:56

but you can always it. So you can just Yeah,

1:59

we can, we can, we can continue. Let me see.

2:04

OK, I think this is much better. Thank you so much.

2:06

Sorry for interrupting. So I welcome here today.

2:10

Um Cecilia Lewis, Elizabeth Poli and Arcadia Lee,

2:16

one of the younger members from the Caribbean film collective.

2:20

They are showing their latest film,

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Night Fishing with ancestors at the succession and the film will be uh the exhibition will be opened tonight.

2:31

We are very happy that you made it so far from Australia to Vienna and we know it was a really long trip.

2:38

Um And uh so we're really happy that you join us here for this podcast today.

2:44

Thank you. Thank you. So welcome.

2:47

Uh Maybe we, we start talking about this latest film,

2:51

Night Fishing, Night Fishing with ancestors.

2:53

What was the original idea um for this film?

3:01

Really uh Cecilia's daughter,

3:04

Natasha uh Louis Bigfoot wanted to,

3:08

came to us and said,

3:12

let's make the next film around the fish traps down at Marble,

3:16

which is uh uh a area in,

3:22

yeah, in Sicily country. So,

3:27

um, we were thinking about the fish traps and the ancestors who made them and what their lives were like a they,

3:39

their lifestyle and they were living off the coast in,

3:44

in Bay. And is it known when approximately this fish traps have been built?

3:53

Know we had archaeologists out there did a testing on the day they reckon.

4:01

So what we must be?

4:05

Well, yeah, they were saying at least 3000 years.

4:09

And then if there's one at that end of that long,

4:13

yam dreaming that could be 30,000.

4:16

But we don't know. Oh, that's really,

4:18

really long. So this fish traps actually,

4:20

we also see them in the film. Um,

4:23

they have to function that when the tide comes,

4:26

uh, or the tide withdraws.

4:29

Actually, then uh, fish gets caught in there and can be easily kind of hunted or collected,

4:37

maybe. Yeah,

4:39

special leave that and put it in the water and then the fish results again.

4:47

And when we see them float up, we go and grab them.

4:51

Ok. That's you just harvest the fish,

4:53

basically. Yeah, it's kind of. And also there's one,

4:56

at least with the uh like a mouth or gate and put the,

5:01

um, you know, like a basket they hand made to put it the end of the channel where the water runs out.

5:07

That's another way to catch the fish too. Yeah.

5:10

So it's like this rock fish trap and then they designed it.

5:14

So it's open at one end and connect that basket.

5:20

So, and this is kind of the connection also um to the trade relationship with the Maan people which also play an important role in this film kind of from South to.

5:32

Um and in the film,

5:35

Cecilia, maybe you can tell us a little bit about um the story.

5:40

It's, it's an oral history, right?

5:42

Of these relationships with the Maca people.

5:44

And that started long before the Europeans came,

5:49

I heard a little bit about and when I saw it on the TV,

5:54

about some people at Rhode Island,

5:58

they did a trade for a goat or something.

6:00

Oh, you go. Yeah. But we think we're the,

6:04

they, it's the reason they can for that sea cucumber,

6:10

is it? Yeah. See white people say sea cucumber.

6:13

So they came down or whatever they,

6:16

oh, yeah. Yeah.

6:20

They call it the sea cucumber and the MCAS traded with a land,

6:25

they traded goats and with us and some material material like for sales and they changed,

6:36

they exchanged stories about how they sailed and used the stars and probably our ancestors,

6:48

yeah, told them stories for the country.

6:52

Yeah. Country when they first came in there and they exchanged,

6:58

gave them a piece of material to use for relative used to travel by sea by,

7:08

before they, they move from coast to coast all around the Bay area.

7:15

So they trade them for material and they,

7:18

I don't know what they gave the something that,

7:22

that, yeah, because we,

7:24

we don't eat that thing. No.

7:28

And in the film it's very interesting because this is in black and white scenes and also the kids,

7:35

one of them is here play kind of reenact the past.

7:40

Basically, it's kind of like in a theater play.

7:42

They play these old stories.

7:45

Um And then the next chapter almost is Captain Cook arriving um in 17 70 um in Australia.

7:54

And soon afterwards, in 78 the first ships came with white settlers and then white settler colonialism basically took its um its beginning.

8:05

And a lot of this film is kind of um also working with the trauma that indigenous people suffered through this kind of European invasion in a way.

8:18

Um What are the things I learned about when people first game?

8:28

I used to hear a lot of story from my grandmother Ruby.

8:32

And also below and ago,

8:39

they tell the story. Sometimes it can be funny or sad.

8:43

Sometimes they laugh about it, make joke about it themselves.

8:47

Some of the things they tell us don't walk on the highway,

8:51

try and hit your ride with strangers. You don't trust them.

8:55

Even when you're walking along, you walk through the bushes and if you see a car,

9:01

airplane just hide yourself and they are still living at living their times and teaching us not to trust anybody.

9:12

And in the Darwin area in the north,

9:15

so Captain Cook arrives in the south in 17 whatever,

9:20

1700. But, uh,

9:23

Europeans didn't start colonizing the north until 18 69.

9:28

So that's like from like my age,

9:32

that would be our sister,

9:35

brother, boy, generation. Yeah. So it would be great grandparents,

9:38

generation. So, it's actually the,

9:41

the grandparents and the parents of the adults in Carter.

9:45

It wasn't that far from their own life where white people just coming up in Massacre.

9:53

Yeah. And that sad part in,

9:55

in that new film where kind of playing that lost child when a relative,

10:02

a child when her mother was Mexican and then they left the baby there and one of the relative had the take care of the child because she didn't have a mother.

10:17

That's one other part playing that.

10:20

Yeah. And yeah. And that's that,

10:22

that, that experience that trauma.

10:26

I guess we say that just that even when I first got there,

10:31

it's like if you saw a white person run no matter me,

10:35

I'm white too run. I was like,

10:39

why are we bunning white people gonna shoot us?

10:42

White people can't shoot us, they might not shoot you.

10:46

Right. So,

10:49

but I think what is saying, it's really important that also when they,

10:53

how they pass down that story, like these are hard stories,

10:58

we're not even telling them. I don't wanna go.

11:01

No Yeah.

11:04

No, I don't need that. No, but not really assured these are terrible stories but they also,

11:10

like, made you be able to laugh a little,

11:14

like, live with it so you could hear it and not be.

11:19

Yeah. Something. And I think is our films are like that a little bit because,

11:24

like, there's serious stuff but they're also a little bit funny.

11:28

Yeah. Is funny.

11:30

You play the bad part. I play the bad part and in this case,

11:35

Elizabeth Elli plays Captain Cook.

11:38

Uh but maybe this is also um we can come back to the motivation to of doing the films.

11:44

Uh One is to deal with the trauma,

11:46

obviously. Uh There is like really hard uh hard facts also in this film that are for a white person,

11:53

difficult to take and to accept probably of the history.

11:57

Yeah. Um No,

11:59

it's kind of, no, no, it's kind of, no, no,

12:01

it's don't excuse.

12:03

I mean, I think this is important uh to be told and to say,

12:08

yeah. Um but at the same time,

12:10

so it's uh it's also kind of you used to film.

12:13

So as a school for the Children.

12:16

Um so this is kind of a motivation or a chance to pass on this old knowledge that you got told from your parents and grandparents.

12:26

Um So how does this work in the films?

12:28

And, and how does Caribbean conceives of these films?

12:32

I mean, I think it's, you, it's all in a very collaborative way.

12:36

But maybe you can tell a little bit how it is really from the,

12:39

the first idea, then how it develops further from my perspective.

12:45

From what I believe when I was told all this story,

12:49

I didn't really believe. At first I thought it was some kind of fairy tale story.

12:53

My grandmother was telling me and all of it,

12:57

all this country that we were connected to that I went back now when I was older,

13:02

then I said at the meeting and I realized,

13:05

then I said, I didn't believe this was true.

13:10

You know, I said to all the story that was told to me by my grandmother was connecting me to all this land.

13:19

And when we went back there and all this and all the story,

13:24

I was telling my kids that see this,

13:28

all the story I hear from you girl,

13:30

me and your great grandmother was telling me when I was a kid,

13:34

but I didn't believe it myself like him of young people did it.

13:38

I think everything is not real,

13:41

but it is real. When you go back to the land,

13:45

you see it in here and you can feel the spirit of the ancestor and even when you're not there.

13:52

Yeah. And like same way like they told,

13:56

you know, they're telling you and me them stories.

13:59

Yeah. And that's the place and that sun dreaming is there,

14:03

that sun to and that star trying to figure out a way to act it out and tell a story.

14:07

Yeah. So we took a couple of short day telling the story,

14:13

get some of the young people acted out and when we're doing it,

14:18

like we, it's not just that we do it when we're filming.

14:21

So we use some of that money to buy the truck and the boat fuel,

14:25

fuel. And so we get back to that country and we can bring like Canada and China and malls and everybody and,

14:35

and they can see it when they were kids because we never seen it when we were a kid now.

14:40

So yeah, there was no road,

14:44

there was no road there. So Carter being part of you can say it's part of our artistic practice but whatever,

14:52

really, what we do is we try and make the relation real.

14:56

So people can see it because you clicks like where you made the Yeah.

15:03

Yeah. And then the kid grow up in the country.

15:07

So it's also for you, it's a, it's a means of keeping the relationship to the country strong,

15:13

keeping the relationship within the family culture alive.

15:17

I reckon that the main thing is culture and the land spiritually.

15:23

Yeah. Yeah. Same thing like that film comes second really.

15:28

And uh in the film, it starts with the scene where you teach the Children or you show them the,

15:34

the tams, the can you maybe explain a little bit this concept because it's,

15:40

uh for us very, I think we don't have much knowledge about this.

15:45

Um, that, that like them dreaming exactly terrain and dreaming.

15:51

This is kind of terms that are constantly coming up in the films and in the work.

15:55

Um, and, and what does it mean? It's kind of,

15:58

is it like a cartography? Like a, it's a tom but in place and that,

16:05

that place is shaped and it belongs to the grandfather and the father connected to the,

16:13

the son or the daughter too. But it continues on from the father's side.

16:19

Yeah, from father's side past that and that kid and pick it up through his grandfather,

16:24

father's side. But that like that,

16:27

it's not like a back me up or change what I'm saying,

16:31

mom. But um it's not like a dreaming.

16:35

You're just dreaming at it. No,

16:37

no. Yes,

16:41

it's, it's white people say cartography.

16:46

They mean that place is shape but like it marks that animal shape.

16:52

For instance, maybe you can say how a marble look is shaped and muddy tail.

16:58

Yeah. Yeah. So there's one little point where all the fish traps are biggest,

17:02

small and that point,

17:05

coastal point that the end of it.

17:09

Barramundi fish tail. Yeah. Barramundi fish tail.

17:12

And if you look at it another way, it might be that entire fish,

17:16

the whole shape of that point of that reef and the little bit of bay pot,

17:22

that's the body of the fish and it represents that place belongs to the person that is told him or dreaming,

17:32

whatever you call it belongs to that group.

17:36

And then other parts of that area have shapes because other ancestors did something there like that and moan dog,

17:51

we don't have to tell him everything. But so the whole country shape and shaped from them,

17:59

ancestors them. That's what it means.

18:04

And the ancestors is like people that lived there before or is it something like the Yeah,

18:13

the people. Yeah. But like that dog story.

18:17

But yeah,

18:20

so you got human ancestor and they're still there and then you got the heroine and that's like the dog and the,

18:31

and the muddy and they were there doing their own thing.

18:37

So this is the mythology. It's not a myth,

18:40

it's real. No,

18:43

but, but not myth and mythology and myth is also different.

18:47

It's a fact you can go to like, sorry Gigi was saying if you go there,

18:54

sorry Cecily was saying if you go there,

18:57

you can see it. It's right there.

18:59

It's its shape like sun totem is shape like that.

19:03

Setting sun. Yeah.

19:06

So uh sorry, I always get a little,

19:09

can I interrupt just for a minute if they could wait for five more minutes because it's been nearly at the end.

19:15

But you can hear that. Tell them be quiet,

19:18

please. They haven't come back. OK.

19:21

So mom, sorry, I'm trying to like, like we say ancestor we got all,

19:26

we got human ancestor and we also got that like melody.

19:31

All people. I agree with you.

19:34

No, I, I agree with you that spot on.

19:37

And we should just say we got them human ancestor and then we got them other kind of ancestor like muddy,

19:47

like ancestor. Can we start with another question because I can cut out the last two minutes.

20:01

Thank you. Just have to think of something.

20:04

Now, um, how many young people do you have?

20:07

Are you, are you a family group? Ok.

20:12

Um Canadian. Huh. OK.

20:14

Caring is a, is it a family group?

20:20

Oh, yes. And uh how many young people are there?

20:25

How many, you are? Eight years old?

20:27

How many young younger kids are there?

20:31

Can you name them, try to name some? Can you go?

20:38

Really? I'll pull up Claudia,

20:47

Georgia, Shona Patti.

20:54

A which one?

21:01

And yeah, when we play so,

21:05

Timmy and Kyle and so that's really,

21:09

it's a lot of young members already. They're like 895 k seven.

21:18

Timmy is nine, is 12.

21:23

Clad is 14.

21:26

Yeah, Patties five.

21:31

George is five. Chicana's four.

21:37

And when we, when we make those films,

21:41

you guys all participate and learn. Hey,

21:44

hm. And then you also travel,

21:46

you travel overseas to show these films to people like us.

21:52

Uh and one thing that came up in the film for uh Shana calls Beth's sister.

21:58

Uh and I would like to ask you about this family relations,

22:01

how you name? Uh and also Arcadia calls your sister,

22:06

uh calls Beth's sister. Um Can you just let me know a little bit how this kind of how you call yourself within the family?

22:16

Not as this kind of this kind of uh family structure.

22:21

Well, one thing you look up 1988 1984 1984.

22:26

When Beth first came, she met up with all the old lady and grandmother.

22:32

Hm, two of those so lady or three of them,

22:36

all of them actually adopted her in their family in every way and teach him all about every culture,

22:45

every, you know, hunting and gathering. She was in part,

22:48

participate in everything, what they were doing.

22:51

So the whole adopt her in a family group,

22:56

she had mothers, she had aunties,

22:58

she had cousins and sister.

23:03

Mm. Yeah. So that into,

23:06

into, um, into mortal model group.

23:10

So through. Yeah.

23:14

So once you have that particular relation,

23:17

well, then it expand from there,

23:20

expand from there. Yeah,

23:22

I'm his daughter. That's one of my special daughters.

23:28

And it was, how old were you?

23:30

Eight, I was eight when I first met you.

23:33

You eight years old and I'm 48 today.

23:36

Yeah. And Cecilia's one daughter,

23:39

made another daughter, made part.

23:45

So one of Cecilia's daughter and I share the same name.

23:51

Aboriginal name. Yeah. But you are,

23:54

Celia is your daughter but you call her mom and,

23:59

uh, Acadia is basically your great granddaughter and you call her sister.

24:07

So that, that's what I, I found.

24:09

I call Celia mom because she calls me mom.

24:12

But, like, I don't know how to say it.

24:15

Like she's my daughter but I think from her point of view,

24:20

granddaughter. No,

24:24

I said that but I'm asking why I call you,

24:26

do, why I say to you mom,

24:29

a daughter better get him. We say,

24:33

yeah, like you're thinking from that other person perspective.

24:39

Yes. Exactly. So,

24:42

yeah, to my daughter, Natasha come because that's my daughter.

24:49

Exactly. Mean that me as a mother to my daughter said,

24:53

mom, me, I want you and I want your mom is calling you.

24:58

Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah.

25:00

And it's really cool because it shows that we're always trying to think through the,

25:06

like the perspective of that other person.

25:10

Like, like if,

25:12

if somebody else call her to them, they use their name and as a mother for me,

25:18

I call her to my daughters and mama. I like that as a mommy.

25:22

If they know I'm their mother calling it to them.

25:26

Yeah. And the reason my Katia and I call them sisters because like you have your daughter then you either uh you got your grandkids,

25:39

you got two way and to say,

25:43

and then when they have kids is it rolls back to sister,

25:49

sister and brother. Boy, girl,

25:51

brother, boy. Yeah,

25:54

I don't know what happened after that. Sorry,

25:59

you're right. You're good. So one question that I would like to ask is also kind of the effect of the Caribbean films,

26:06

you show the films all over the world and are really successful and the films are well received.

26:12

Did it kind of improve the position of uh indigenous people in Australia?

26:18

Um Do you get more recognition,

26:20

a stronger voice, uh more power in,

26:23

in the relationship with the government?

26:26

Um We do.

26:28

Yeah, because three of them just came back from Melbourne.

26:32

Sorry, my sister,

26:34

my mother and my auntie went to Melbourne last week.

26:39

When they came back, we flew this way.

26:42

That was in Melbourne Film Festival.

26:46

Did we won, we won two awards for day in the Yeah,

26:52

congratulations. Thank you. You know,

26:55

it's, we work also, I think,

26:57

I mean, talked about this. It's made members more confident and strong with that voice.

27:04

And also we work with um some uh government or government groups like sacred sites,

27:12

Aboriginal areas, protection Authority and an archaeology mob trying to put on one heritage site on the fish strip.

27:23

But from, from you, from the perspective of car instead of archaeology,

27:28

say how they think it should be like nature and culture.

27:31

We say no, no. So trying to change their way of doing it while we're working with them.

27:41

And I think because also archaeology came up.

27:44

Uh I, I really think this is such an important information that um Elizabeth Povi as the only white member of the group has been made an anthropologist kind of because the uh on the request of the family basically.

28:01

So this is not kind of, you know, it's usually very often it's the other um power relationship.

28:08

Um But here it's like, really you have been adopted by the family and uh well,

28:14

that goes back to what we were talking about before.

28:17

So after I,

28:21

I was a, I had a degree in philosophy,

28:25

undergraduate degree in philosophy.

28:27

So those old people and I were like,

28:30

really just so they're so smart and funny and he,

28:33

you know them anyway.

28:36

Um but at the end of that year when my visa was running out,

28:41

they said, well, what you gonna do,

28:44

daughter or auntie, depending what they,

28:47

you know, call what we call each other. Are you just gonna be like a normal white person and you have your little experience,

28:53

you savvy and then you go away and like,

28:56

whatever I was like, oh, I don't wanna do that.

28:59

What can I do? And they said we have this land claim and by law we need a lawyer to represent us.

29:05

I was like, I don't, I don't wanna be a lawyer anything else?

29:09

They said, well, by that law,

29:12

we need to be represented by an anthropologist.

29:14

And I was like, what's that? And they said white people studying us.

29:18

I was like, I don't want to do that. And they said,

29:23

no, we don't want you to study us. We want like side by side,

29:26

you know, level we try to understand and yeah,

29:33

like N L C was thinking whether they support it.

29:36

Yeah, exactly. Yeah,

29:38

exactly. Like why N L C saying they're trying to help but it wasn't really help now they're undermining.

29:46

So my job never was to be and a quote anthropologist in any normal way,

29:53

it was just like, like carving, it's just to be a member to be a part of the family,

29:58

not the boss of the bloody family. No,

30:01

no, we like bosses.

30:04

Anybody wanna be boss. No, no.

30:09

But we hope that Caribbean film collective will continue making films and that we can see a lot of new films in the future with a new idea to Yeah.

30:21

Ok, so that there's more to come.

30:24

So thank you so much for being here with us today and for tonight's opening and uh yeah,

30:30

thank you. Thank you. Thanks.

30:34

So, thank you. You work for Yeah,

30:38

I was, as I said, I'm always the problem with the podcast.