0:00

Johnny, I've pulled me over at a dinner

0:02

recently in London. Ruthie,

0:04

come and meet my great friend Linda

0:07

Evangelista. Well, I thought

0:09

there'd be lots of topics to discuss,

0:12

what it's like to be in her profession, what

0:14

it's like to have worked with the world's greatest photographers,

0:18

and to have done so much work

0:20

in fashion. But Linda greeted

0:22

me with so much enthusiasm.

0:25

Ruthie Rogers the River

0:27

Cafe. Wow. All

0:30

she really wanted to do was talk about food,

0:32

where to eat, what she cooks for her son,

0:35

how a restaurant kitchen works. Linda's

0:38

the opposite of cool. She's warm,

0:40

She's engaging and curious. I

0:42

realize we're pretty much the same. She

0:45

loves being home, I love being home.

0:47

She adores her son, I adore mine.

0:50

I'm not a model, she's not a chef.

0:52

But we shared an immediate intimacy,

0:55

so we thought, let's continue this conversation

0:58

on table four. And here we are

1:00

today in New York with my newest

1:02

and loveliest, warmest,

1:05

most wonderful friend, Linda Evangelista.

1:09

Thank you so much.

1:11

So it is true that's how we met. As

1:14

we met over food. We then saw each other

1:16

again over food, and here we

1:18

are. I love podcasts, which is really

1:20

talking about memories and how

1:22

we cook and what we grew up with.

1:25

So we have heard one of the

1:27

things we love to eat is nyoki,

1:30

and so we have a recipe for you to read,

1:33

which is knochi with slow cooked tomato

1:35

sauce. You would like to read the

1:37

recipe, and when you read it, you

1:39

can change it, you can question it, you

1:42

can add to it or take away. But

1:44

that's the recipe that was in our most recent

1:46

cookbook. It's a book for children,

1:48

so it's quite a kind of simplification of

1:51

how to make yaki. But we can talk more about

1:53

that after you read the recipe.

1:55

Okay, this is great to see something

1:58

in writing, because I learned to make

2:00

yocchi with my grandmother,

2:03

but it was never written down.

2:05

And it was a little bit of this and

2:08

this, many eggs depending how big they are,

2:10

and some potatoes.

2:12

Yeah, and some potatoes. That's how we learned to

2:14

I mean, that's a beautiful way to learn. She

2:17

did she ever write anything down? She

2:20

couldn't write. Yeah, she didn't know

2:22

how to write. She didn't know how to write English.

2:24

She didn't write all.

2:25

She didn't know how to write it. Also as a peasant.

2:27

She was born in Italy, as was

2:30

my father and my mother and all my grandparents.

2:32

And do you speak Italian?

2:34

Very badly? I speak it, and

2:36

my family speaks dialect. I

2:38

know you're friend and proper Italian, but

2:41

at home they speak dialect. My parents

2:43

spoke English to us growing up, and

2:46

only when they were arguing did they speak to

2:49

each other in Italian. So I

2:51

can tell you where to go in

2:53

Italian, but I can't ask you are you having

2:55

a nice day?

2:57

Or kind words? It's

3:00

been Richard Dad's father had

3:02

Italian parents and he had the same thing that

3:04

he heard Italian spoken again, a very

3:06

similar story when there was an argument,

3:09

I think, and then when he did learn Italian,

3:11

a lot of it came back because he had kind

3:13

of grown up for it.

3:14

Right.

3:15

So this grandmother, she never did learn

3:17

him to speak English. And in

3:19

our neighborhood it was quite Polish,

3:22

some Ukrainians and Italians.

3:25

Where was it?

3:25

Where was the name Saint Catharine's, Ontario,

3:28

Canada, across the lake from Toronto in

3:31

Niagara Region, right near the

3:33

border of the United States, And

3:36

my grandmother went to Italian

3:38

mass, shopped at the Italian store,

3:41

worked picking fruit on the farm with the

3:43

Italian ladies, so she didn't

3:45

really need to speak English.

3:49

I remember how excited they

3:51

all got that generation when Canada

3:53

went metric. I was about

3:55

ten years old or so, I approximately,

3:58

and then they ender stood, oh, this

4:00

is how many grams of meat

4:03

I'm buying? And so they were

4:05

very happy when that happened.

4:07

When did they leave. The family comes from between

4:10

Naples and Rome.

4:11

Yes, it's a town called Pinatado

4:14

in Taramna, which is

4:16

near Casino and Monte

4:18

Casino, where the big battle of World

4:20

War two took place. And

4:23

my father would

4:26

have come over, and he was born

4:28

in nineteen forty and I think he came over

4:32

nineteen fifty six. And my mother

4:34

was born in forty three inch came over in

4:36

nineteen fifty.

4:37

And the grandmother that you were describing was that your

4:39

mother's mother.

4:40

That was my father's mother, but my mother's

4:42

mother's kind of the same.

4:44

And they all came, they all eventually,

4:46

they were all yes.

4:48

And they came with the few

4:50

belongings that they had. And

4:53

I have the two

4:55

handmade hammered

4:59

copper pop that My one grandmother

5:02

came over with and she would make her Sunday

5:04

you know, tomato sauce in and I

5:07

have them. They're like there are precious

5:10

belongings. There's

5:12

no painting, there's no paintings.

5:16

Yes, sauce fam is a memory and it

5:19

is what she cooked with, so

5:21

bring that with her was part of her. Why

5:23

did they leave?

5:24

You know, they left

5:26

in search of a better life.

5:28

They had lost everything. Well,

5:30

they didn't have anything much.

5:33

They worked their land, so it's

5:35

not like they had vocations

5:38

and they just went

5:41

in search of a better life for their children.

5:44

In Canada rather than the United States.

5:47

Well, they were heading to the United

5:49

States, but at the time they closed their

5:51

doors and then they were not receiving

5:53

any more immigrants. And somebody in the United

5:55

States found a sponsor for my grandfather

5:58

in Canada, and the other one

6:00

similar story. So yeah,

6:02

one grandfather was a prisoner of war.

6:05

They were both in the war. My grandfathers.

6:07

My mom was born during the war forty

6:10

three.

6:11

And she spoke Italian.

6:13

She speaks proper and dialect. She speaks

6:15

both.

6:15

When you say dialect, do you mean the dialect

6:18

of that region?

6:18

Betwe Yeah, And it gets

6:20

even worse because then you

6:23

know, it takes on a life

6:25

of its own in Canada, not

6:27

quite like the way the Americans.

6:30

They like totally butchered the language.

6:32

And I don't like the way they cut off the

6:34

ends of the words when they say mozzarella.

6:37

When they say mozzarell, I know

6:39

that's Tony Soprano. Do you remember Tony's

6:42

in watching the Sopranos, they would always

6:44

call it mozzarell. Yeah, yeahs.

6:48

And so your mother also, your mother

6:51

had both her mother and her mother in law

6:54

correct with her. Yeah. And did

6:56

they all cook together? Yeah?

6:58

I think early on they did.

7:01

And you know my mother is

7:04

because she came over quite young, she

7:07

got quite americanized,

7:09

and you know she she you know,

7:11

she has an education and she

7:13

cooks with recipes she

7:16

but she also has

7:18

all the recipes in her head like what she

7:21

grew up making.

7:22

Who is the best cook of all of them? Do you think

7:24

me? You good? Okay, We're gonna get

7:26

to that. I like your answer.

7:29

Okay, So do you want to read the recipe with

7:32

tomato sauce ganaki?

7:34

I'm joking, okay. Yaki with

7:37

tomato sauce served

7:39

six in my family, three one

7:42

yeah, okay, two tablespoons

7:45

of extra virgin olive oil. Two

7:48

clothes of garlic finally

7:50

sliced. I would

7:52

say a little, you can add more?

7:54

Yeah, okay, good?

7:56

Eight hundred grams of ten peeled

7:58

plum tomatoes. One

8:01

kilogram of white floury

8:04

potatoes.

8:05

Your grandma will be happy that this is in grams.

8:07

Wouldn't yet she would one

8:09

hundred and thirty grams of double zero flour,

8:12

one large egg, lightly

8:15

beaten, and ten basal

8:17

leaves interesting. Heat

8:20

the olive oil in a large frying pan

8:22

over a medium heat. Add the garlic

8:25

and cook until soft. Add

8:27

the tomatoes, breaking them up, season

8:30

well, and cook for thirty minutes on

8:32

low heat. Bring a large saucepan

8:35

of salted water to a boil and

8:37

add the potatoes and cook until

8:39

they are easily pierced with a fork.

8:43

Drain and peel when they are cool

8:45

enough to handle. Immediately.

8:47

Put the potatoes through a food milk

8:50

and then sift the flour over them,

8:52

making a well in the center. Add

8:55

the beaten egg, using

8:57

your hands, quickly mixed to form

8:59

a smooth, soft dough. Do

9:02

not overwork the dough or you will

9:04

make the nyoki too heavy. Divide

9:07

the dough into four using

9:10

your hands. Roll the dough into

9:12

a sausage and then cut into pieces.

9:15

Cook the yoki until they rise

9:17

to the surface. Remove the yaki

9:20

with a slotted spoon, and then stir

9:22

into the tomato sauce. Add

9:24

the basil, and if you like, grated

9:27

partamigiano. Now we ran

9:29

our yoki along a fork

9:32

toge to get the ridges.

9:34

You can do that. We sometimes do ridges and sometimes

9:36

we don't. I prefer without, Yeah, you

9:38

prefer without. We were also talking today

9:41

about yaki. I was talking to Joseph

9:43

Trevelli, one of my chefs. He was saying, do you

9:45

remember Ruthie, how the cook

9:48

in our house in Italy called Giovanna

9:50

made yaki and she

9:52

said to us, when you form them, the was like

9:55

you're doing a book, Like you're making a book

9:57

of the flower and the mixture,

10:00

because if you it is really true that if you handle

10:02

them too much, they do get tough,

10:04

and so you want to touch the flower gets it

10:07

gets overdeveloped, and the

10:09

idea that you want to make them as light and actually

10:12

I also used to say

10:14

that what we do is we make the potatoes

10:16

and add a little bit of flour and

10:18

then put one in and then they'd fall apart. And

10:20

then you would add a little bit of flour, and

10:23

you would do it so gradually that then

10:25

you would know that you need that amount of flour

10:27

for them not to fall apart, but

10:30

the least amount makes them as light as

10:32

you can.

10:33

And then once you've done them so many times,

10:35

you just.

10:36

Know, yeah, and do you do them?

10:38

You know.

10:40

I have to tell you the one

10:42

thing in the kitchen that intimidates

10:44

me, well, there's two things, is

10:47

flower like pizza does and

10:51

pasta does, and

10:55

pastry I don't even I

10:57

get so intimidated by it, and

11:00

I make a mess and I'm

11:02

never successful with it.

11:04

And we should do it when you come.

11:06

When you come to London next time, we'll go into

11:08

the cafe because you heard her

11:10

say it, because

11:13

actually the young chef we teach how

11:15

to make it. And I really relate to

11:17

what you're saying. I'm not a pastry

11:19

chef person. You know. I'm never

11:22

good with it. I can do the science of cakes, but

11:24

i'd always the measuring.

11:26

The measuring is it has to be

11:28

so precise, and I like to venture

11:30

off.

11:30

A little bit.

11:31

I have to tell you about a recipe of yours

11:34

that I tried to venture off with.

11:35

Oh what was that?

11:36

You're olive oil cake with

11:39

polenta? The polenta cake, I tried

11:41

to do it with olive oil, and

11:44

then I tried I

11:47

tried to do it with a little ricota.

11:49

Yeah that's okay, yeah matter,

11:53

And then I would

11:55

love to get to the olive

11:57

oil, almond flour and

12:01

ricotta.

12:02

Yeah, we could do that. Pastry chefs really

12:04

enjoyed cooking with olive oil now as opposed

12:07

to butter. But I do think butter

12:09

is so good and butter and cakes so

12:12

delicious. And there's something about that polenta

12:14

cake which is, you

12:17

know, there's just polenta, there's almonds, there's

12:19

butter and sugar and you put it all

12:22

in that.

12:22

But yeah, once I've made it a couple

12:24

of times, though I want it just

12:27

you know, change things. But this was

12:29

during the pandemic and

12:31

I had plenty of time to you

12:34

know, like play with it. But it didn't.

12:37

You never made bread though, right, If you don't like

12:39

that, I'm not.

12:39

A bread No. You can buy beautiful

12:42

bread from great artisans

12:44

and bakeries, and I

12:47

did with my friend a couple of times. But I made

12:49

such a mess in the kitchen, and

12:51

yeah, I get it, it just wasn't worth it.

12:54

What what what did you do in the pandemic? What

12:56

did you cook?

12:57

Oh?

12:57

I lived in the same

13:00

house as my brother, but on different floors

13:02

in New York. In Canada. I

13:04

wanted to be able to go outside, and

13:07

I'm very immunocompromised.

13:09

I have a disease that affects

13:11

my lungs, and living

13:14

in New York you have to you know, in a

13:16

tall building. It's difficult. But I

13:19

wanted to be with my family. So we did a

13:21

lot of barbecuing and smoking

13:24

and cooked a lot outside, even

13:26

made pizzas outside.

13:27

Did it make pizzas? Did your brother make the dough?

13:30

No?

13:30

I had a friend come over to re teach

13:32

me a dough. But it's like a three day ordeal,

13:35

and I'm like, I'm not I

13:38

guess, like really sour dough.

13:41

You know.

13:42

I did different doughs, but I'm

13:44

not good at dough.

13:45

I don't know what it doesn't have to be.

13:47

It baffles me because I'm really good at

13:49

other things.

13:50

So what do you mostly liked? But if you

13:52

if I come for dinner or

13:54

lunch, what would you what would you want to make.

13:57

Depends what I would find out the market.

14:00

Good answer. Yeah.

14:02

We always say don't go to the market

14:05

with a shopping list in your head. No that

14:07

thing. Do you remember when I started cooking, I would be running

14:10

all over London trying to find the

14:12

ingredient, some ingredient, and then you realize

14:14

it's just when I lived in Paris for four

14:16

years. That was one of the lessons I took away, which

14:18

was it we lived over market and you go

14:21

downstairs and then you see what's there, and

14:23

then you cook. And that's what we do in the River Cafe. You know,

14:25

we change the menu for every meal

14:28

because we come in like a domestic cook

14:30

and see what's in the fridge, see what's

14:32

been ordered, see what we have, and then we

14:34

start to cook.

14:35

That is the hardest menu

14:37

to choose from.

14:39

Oh really wait, it's not a very long menu.

14:41

No, but you want everything. It's like

14:44

really difficult to choose

14:46

from that menu.

14:47

I love being there that night. I love we were at separate

14:49

tables, which Johnny just said that was annoying.

14:52

It was just to see your enthusiasm

14:55

and your happiness for being there. Do go

14:57

out to restaurants a lot, I do, I

14:59

do. What do you look for in a restaurant?

15:02

It can't I don't want like inferior

15:05

food. If I'm going to eat pasta,

15:08

that's like an indulgence for me, it

15:11

has.

15:11

To be because it's cars

15:14

well, because I.

15:14

Just try and watch my weight and healthy and

15:17

I always have. But if

15:19

I'm going to eat pasta, it has to be

15:21

great pasta. If I'm going to eat a

15:24

steak, I mean I eat everything. I

15:26

don't want to eat a crappy steak.

15:28

It has to be like the best steak.

15:30

Otherwise I'll eat at home, you

15:33

know. So I

15:35

can get disappointed sometimes at

15:38

certain restaurants.

15:39

Do you go back to the saved on silver? And I

15:41

again, I do. Does the

15:44

mood of the restaurant matter to you? How the waiters

15:46

are, how the absolutely when you walk

15:49

in, you want to feel welcome and taken

15:51

care of. And yeah,

15:53

you live downtown.

15:54

My place is in Chelsea.

15:56

Yeah, oh that's a good areas. That good air

15:58

for food you've got, No, it's

16:00

okay. Shopping art

16:03

galleries, art galleries, art

16:05

galleries. That's good to have, isn't it. My

16:07

son lived on Nineteenth Street, you know

16:09

the building by Jean novelle. It's opposite

16:12

that Frank Carey building. Yeah right

16:14

there, Yeah, that is beautiful. It's

16:17

around the corner. Yeah.

16:22

The River Cafe is excited to announce

16:25

the return of our Italian Christmas

16:27

gift boxes, our alternative

16:29

to the traditional hamper. We bring

16:31

you all of our favorites from the River

16:34

Cafe, kitchen, vineyards

16:36

and the designers from all over Italy.

16:39

They're available to pre order now on

16:41

shop the River Cafe dot

16:43

co dot uk. So

16:50

let's go back to the beginning. You grew up

16:52

with an Italian grandmothers two

16:55

two, two grandfathers two

16:57

your parents. What was food like

17:00

growing up in the Evangelista household?

17:02

Well, I complained

17:05

a lot because we

17:09

always ate homemade

17:12

food and I

17:15

wanted to have TV

17:18

dinners or frozen meals

17:20

or something out of a can.

17:22

I wanted to close from Cyr's roebook. I

17:24

was really oh, my clothes were from Cyrus.

17:29

I didn't think to my mother, not that we had money, but

17:31

why can't we buy clothes out of a catalog?

17:33

That sounds so my clothes were from CERs

17:35

and Woolworth. So yeah,

17:37

So it was a lot of

17:39

homemade food and I appreciate

17:42

that now, but like growing up, you

17:44

know, I wanted the TV

17:47

dinners with the compartments, you know,

17:49

and the little apple pie in the corner. And

17:52

but yeah, my father took us out for

17:54

dinner every Friday

17:57

because my mother worked late. She was where

18:00

in retail. But my

18:02

father let us choose the restaurant. And by

18:04

restaurant, I mean McDonald's

18:07

or Denny's or the pizzeria

18:10

or A and W, you know, fast

18:13

food. And so that

18:15

was a big deal because we were very spoiled

18:17

with that. Yeah, and fresh.

18:20

We had homemade pasta

18:22

Wednesdays and Sundays. We

18:26

had roast beef once

18:28

a week. We would have steak or

18:31

barbecue once a week. My

18:33

father really spent

18:35

a lot of money, I think on food

18:38

because he didn't have much growing

18:40

up. They ate like a chicken

18:42

or a rabbit once a week.

18:44

This is what until he was sixteen, until

18:47

came to America.

18:48

Yeah, until he got a good job at

18:50

General Motors. And the

18:52

food went on the table family style.

18:55

How many of you were there, you me.

18:56

And two brothers, two brothers, and he would

18:59

serve us and he would put like this mound

19:02

on your plate and you had to eat it all.

19:04

And for him, the most important thing

19:06

was you weren't hungry, that you were

19:08

nourished, that you ate. He

19:11

also didn't want a lot to talk at

19:13

the table because where he worked was

19:15

so noisy, so there

19:18

wasn't a lot of conversation. It was sort

19:20

of like dive into your food and finish it because

19:23

you're not leaving the table too.

19:24

Did you dread dinners or did

19:27

you No?

19:29

I didn't dread it. A couple times I did.

19:31

I wouldn't eat the liver.

19:33

And what would he do? And you say, you have to do

19:35

it. What do you understand if you really.

19:36

Couldn't, They gave up trying to make

19:38

me the liver.

19:39

I have a friend who had an amazing

19:41

posture. She would just sit I once said,

19:43

you had, you know, very new. How is it that you sit

19:46

so well? She said, well, because at the meal

19:48

at the table, my father and mother

19:51

said we had to always sit straight.

19:53

It was just the thing. And she said, as a result,

19:56

I hated every meal. She said,

19:58

I just couldn't bear going. You know,

20:00

she had great posture, but it came from,

20:03

you know, just this feeling of just dreading

20:05

a family dinner. And it's

20:07

interesting about not having to finish your

20:09

plate when you don't want to.

20:11

No, in general, I was like, okay food. Yeah,

20:14

And maybe because we had to eat

20:16

what was put in front of us, we weren't there

20:18

weren't cooking different meals for us, like

20:21

we all ate the same. And it's

20:23

crazy because like today, I love dandelion

20:26

and I used to go with my father in

20:28

the country where no person

20:31

or dog had walked. There

20:33

was lots of farmlands and we would pick

20:35

the little baby tender. Yeah,

20:39

like I grew up on broccoli rub. Everybody

20:42

had a garden and what they produced

20:44

in these gardens was unbelievable.

20:47

Tell me about everything

20:49

like tomatoes and

20:52

cucumbers and peppers and different

20:55

like ridico and and then there

20:57

were the fruit trees and then there was like basil,

20:59

all the earth, you name it, onions and

21:02

it was just all there.

21:04

And so you had your own garden full

21:06

of.

21:06

Everybody had the whole backyard was

21:08

a garden, but shared what the other

21:10

one didn't have. And it's not like we

21:13

had a swimming pool or we

21:15

didn't play in our backyards. We played on

21:17

the street or parking lot.

21:19

Did they bring the seeds? Do you think for Italy. I

21:21

get. The seeds are.

21:23

A whole thing. The

21:26

seeds was like a network and whoever

21:28

had like the best tomatoes that year

21:31

would do the seeds and hand them out.

21:33

And it's so funny. Now you see all these heirloom

21:35

tomatoes and I'm like, but those are the tomatoes

21:37

I grew up with, Like none of

21:39

them were nice little round tomatoes.

21:43

And then the fruit trees and my father

21:45

he had a green thumb and he would graft.

21:48

He would do these sensational

21:51

things like the apricot tree had

21:53

plums on it and the red

21:55

apple tree had a branch with yellow

21:57

apples, and he would graft

22:00

and it would be it would just be incredible,

22:03

and then he would make his gropas.

22:05

So do you think that then he would go work at general

22:08

motives? Do you think that in his real passion

22:10

would have been to have been a farmer or to have done

22:12

this whole day? Absolutely? Yeah.

22:15

Well, he grew up. He didn't get an education

22:17

because he had to work the land. And

22:20

I know he had a donkey and whenever

22:22

he referred to Italy, he

22:25

referred to it as the good old days.

22:28

I think that would have been what he

22:30

would have loved to have done because he was

22:32

so good at it. We also had

22:35

it was so embarrassing at the time. We

22:37

had some chickens and some rabbits,

22:39

but we didn't live in zoning

22:42

that allowed those in the roosters

22:44

when they would go off at five height.

22:46

So this was a suburban.

22:47

It was a suburban suburb.

22:49

And you were all This community was Italian,

22:52

was it? Everybody had the gardens that you're Polish,

22:55

and then you grew up with this culture,

22:57

with this food, with these gardens, and.

22:59

Then and then you had to pickle it, yeah,

23:02

or put it in a jar or cure

23:04

it for the winter. So

23:06

we would make sausages and

23:09

they would buy the animal. Don't ask me how

23:11

it got divided up and who did what. And

23:14

then they would make pro chutto and capricolo,

23:16

and we made our own tomato sauce.

23:18

But they would have to buy more tomatoes

23:21

because we would make enough to get

23:23

you through the winter. And that

23:25

would be like a pasata. And

23:28

everything got pickled like egg plants.

23:30

And did you have olive oil?

23:32

No funny you say that, but they do buy

23:36

We don't have olives in Canada, but

23:38

they would get somehow from

23:41

I don't know which dealer some olives

23:44

and maybe make some jars of olives,

23:47

but they didn't make olive oil. They

23:49

bought that.

23:51

It sounds it just is a description

23:53

of life in an Italian hilltown. You

23:55

know, well it was, It absolutely

23:58

was. It continue

24:00

it does continue.

24:01

We still make the tomato sauce every

24:04

year.

24:04

When you say we, who would that be?

24:06

The whole family. My father took a

24:08

motor off of a washing machine

24:10

for clothing, and he rigged it

24:13

up to the machine that pureds, you

24:15

know and separates the seeds and peels with

24:17

the passata, so you know, you wouldn't

24:19

have to do it by hands. This thing grows.

24:22

That makes a lot of noise. But I

24:24

don't know how many bushels we do at

24:26

it per day, like bushels and bushels

24:29

and bushels of tomatoes.

24:31

They say that now in Italy because everyone

24:33

is, you know, younger generation are leaving these

24:36

hill towns. They're kind of empty. They're they're

24:38

going. But you can't understand also why younger

24:41

generation of women

24:43

might not want to peel tomatoes for

24:45

the next season, you know, or to do that through

24:47

the winter. But it is a tradition and

24:49

it's a beautiful tradition of it would

24:52

be sad it is.

24:52

It's one of it's like you

24:55

come together that day to do

24:57

it because it's too much work to do. You know,

25:00

you need multiple people doing

25:02

it because the tomatoes have to

25:04

get dropped in boiling water. You

25:06

know, they have the jars. The sausage is a lot

25:09

of work too, you know, the casings.

25:12

That's the one thing I didn't like, washing the casing.

25:14

I know. Did you see the movie nineteen

25:17

hundred Pertulucies movie and there's a

25:19

very graphic part of it which shows

25:21

making up the sausages. I did

25:23

not. It's a great movie. You should see it. It

25:25

takes place in Parma, much

25:27

more further north. But when you left,

25:30

because you went to work quite at an early age,

25:32

I was eighteen, almost nice, Oh you were. What was

25:34

that like, leaving this culture of food?

25:37

What did you do? How did you eat?

25:38

I think I ate really simple. I

25:40

was in New York for about a month or

25:42

so, and then they shipped me off to

25:45

Paris, who shipped you off the agency because

25:47

I wasn't doing so well in New

25:49

York. They said, maybe you'll be more successful

25:52

at nineteen

25:54

and I was first in the Hotel

25:57

sant Andre DA's Art, but I

25:59

got bad bugs there, so I

26:01

went to the Hotel La Louisia.

26:03

And my mom Louisiana. My mom

26:06

found out our hotel, our hotel room

26:08

in the Louisiana was being used during

26:10

the day. I'm not kidding what

26:13

ye many once came

26:16

home and they would rent it out

26:18

during the day.

26:19

Oh my god.

26:20

Yeah, So we left the Louisa.

26:22

That was an upgrade for me. It was ten dollars

26:25

more a night, and my mom had to approve

26:27

that.

26:28

And so I would go to the market on Rula

26:30

Boussie and I would

26:33

like, get it, but get and a piece of breeze

26:35

and a piece of fruit, and

26:38

that's how I would eat on a budget.

26:40

Yeah, we moved into the Hotel

26:42

Descend. You remember that one that was next door to louis

26:45

That was a big step up. Yeah. What year

26:47

was that, Well, it was in seventy twenty

26:50

three, maybe seventy two.

26:52

They're in like eighty forty.

26:54

Yeah, so that was later, so I'm sure, but I

26:56

remember my sid it was a pretty rough the

26:59

vestatory about the hotel

27:01

we stayed in. Renzo Piano came

27:03

to visit me. Richard and his partner. They were doing

27:05

the Pompany Center. I was

27:07

sick, so I was in bed. Sorenza came up and talked

27:10

to me until Richard came back. He was at

27:12

dinner and we were

27:14

just talking and you know, sneezing, and

27:16

then the phone rang and it was a concierge

27:19

and he said, madam, your husband is on the way up.

27:22

And I thought that was so cool.

27:24

At the hotel, they

27:26

were mourning me because they thought that I

27:28

was in bed with my lover.

27:31

That's good.

27:34

I thought that was in a cheap hotel. That was a

27:36

pretty good service if I needed.

27:38

It, very good service.

27:51

So I know, we don't want to talk about things

27:53

that everybody else talks about. But you were working

27:57

as a model. We can recognize that you were

27:59

doing that in Paris, and what were

28:01

the restrictions and food because for

28:03

your professional life, did you have to be in

28:05

the day in the day eat and

28:08

so you had a metabolism that crazy

28:11

crazy.

28:11

I think it started to slow down close

28:14

to thirty. I started working out

28:16

like when I was twenty seven twenty eight,

28:19

because I was like, oh, I think things are a little

28:21

different, and back then, if you

28:24

overindulge for too long. If

28:26

you cut back on everything for three

28:28

days, you would drop five pounds,

28:31

you know. And now it's

28:34

very easy to gain five pounds in a weekend.

28:36

Now being your age now absolutely

28:39

yeah, absolutely, But the tyranny

28:41

of the stories we hear of models

28:43

having to starve. And I went to a show

28:45

in London even now, and we had

28:47

Edward NFL You know, I

28:50

love Edwards and he spent so much

28:52

time talking about body image and

28:54

what that means and how fashion has

28:56

to adapt women's sizes rather

28:59

than women adapt to fashion.

29:01

Well, there were years. Maybe

29:03

that's today, and that's

29:05

great because Edward is a crusader

29:08

and he cares

29:10

about humanity and he

29:12

cares about women, and

29:15

he has done an amazing

29:18

job with diversity. We have to be

29:20

so grateful for Edward and the

29:22

Edwards of this world. But in

29:24

the nineties a model had to.

29:26

Adapt and adapt to

29:29

to fit the clothes. Yeah, correct, I

29:31

think it's still now because I went to see

29:33

a show in London and for me

29:35

it was kind of painful to watch.

29:37

I don't want to see that.

29:38

It was really painful. They were so

29:41

so sid you know, and he

29:44

just thought, what did you do to you know,

29:46

maybe, as you said, a lot of them, maybe they had

29:48

a huge pape of food they build

29:50

up.

29:51

Some probably did there, maybe

29:54

not all. I know that when

29:56

I was you know, flying every

29:59

other day and working

30:01

and running around and jet setting

30:04

and globe trotting, I had to work on

30:06

keeping the weight on, keeping it on, keeping

30:09

it on. Yeah, And then there became a

30:11

period where I had to really

30:13

watch and I started doing cleanses

30:16

all the time. And I loved doing

30:18

these cleanses, but I think they were very

30:20

harmful to me.

30:21

What were they?

30:22

Well, I did the Master Cleanse quite a

30:24

few times, but I would

30:26

do like medicinal cleanses

30:29

where it's like a powdered drink, like

30:31

the rice based like Metagenics. There's

30:33

different brands that do them. Or

30:35

I would go to Weak Care once or twice

30:38

a year for a week, you know, we

30:40

Care. It's out in the desert near Palm

30:42

Springs, Palm Desert, and you

30:45

just do liquids. It's mostly

30:47

you know, waters with lemon and mint

30:50

and teas and you get

30:52

a glass of juice a day and

30:54

then you get a very diluted,

30:57

watered down vegetable

31:00

on a day called a soup, but

31:02

it's basically a liquid dust.

31:05

It's a starvation, but it's

31:07

amazing. Yeah, it's been like quite

31:09

the journey. And I will never do the

31:11

deprivation. I won't

31:13

do that again.

31:15

I won't try it again.

31:17

No, but there's something to be said

31:19

for like a nice twenty four hour fast

31:21

with celery ches. I mean, I do

31:24

still enjoy like doing

31:26

something like that. I find it refreshing

31:28

and you kickstart your head

31:31

in your mind into like a new

31:34

place of like, Okay, I'm

31:36

going to get on this like healthy

31:38

track, and eating healthy can be

31:40

very, very delicious.

31:42

Of course.

31:43

I just happen to love vegetables.

31:45

Your son. Tell me

31:47

what you cook for your son, and what does he like

31:49

to eat?

31:50

Well, he loves meat and

31:53

chicken, and he loves protein. He

31:55

loves my soups.

31:57

Tell me about your soups.

31:58

Like the other day, I made parade

32:00

and I even passed it through the sieve to make

32:02

it super super smooth

32:05

mixed vegetable soup. I make

32:07

lots of minas tons

32:10

and I made my first one last week and he went,

32:12

oh, it's that season again, And that's

32:15

good.

32:16

He's happy if I.

32:17

Give him crunchy bagat or

32:19

crunchy sour dough bread or something

32:22

to dip in there. Yeah, with some parmesan.

32:25

He's happy as can. He

32:27

just turned seventeen.

32:29

Apetite. Do you

32:31

have a place where you can grow it?

32:33

No, I don't have a place. I will, I

32:35

will. I'm getting there when

32:37

he's going to go off to school in two

32:40

years, and then I'm gonna You

32:42

know, does your father still love No.

32:44

He passed, but you would you know how to graft

32:47

an apricut onto a prune.

32:48

Or I mean I've seen

32:50

him do it, but probably not,

32:53

but you could kind of green thumb. And

32:55

the stuff he used to do, like his

32:58

basil leaves were like bigger than the

33:00

size of my hand. Well, I tell

33:02

you the groppa. He made

33:04

it for years and it was just awful, and

33:06

then suddenly it kicked in

33:08

and he would make it from pairs from

33:11

plums, I think, peaches, And

33:13

then they would do homemade wine,

33:15

which all the Italians do. It's totally

33:17

illegal, you know, they would make in

33:20

their basements.

33:21

And did they go back? Did they go back

33:23

to Italy?

33:24

Yeah?

33:24

I took my father back. He

33:26

hadn't been there for forty years.

33:28

When I took him back,

33:31

I think it was forty years. I

33:33

go back every few years, we

33:35

visit.

33:36

To the town Yea where they came from.

33:38

And then we are so grateful and thankful that we

33:41

grew up in Canada because it would have been a

33:43

completely different life had we, you

33:45

know, grown up there, but we appreciate

33:48

it.

33:48

I'm glad to different out there because I might never

33:50

had you in our lives, and it's it's

33:53

important to have you in them. So, as I started

33:55

out by saying, we often

33:58

talk about food, and we know that you've described

34:00

it as part of your culture and the garden

34:02

and your parents and your family. And

34:05

if you had a food that would give you comfort

34:08

that you look to when you need comfort,

34:11

is there one food that you might go

34:13

to now, Linda Evangelista.

34:20

Oh, my mom's egg plant, part of meijiana. She

34:22

made it for me for Thanksgiving

34:25

in Canada, it's the first Monday

34:27

of October, so it was just home for

34:29

that.

34:29

It's a different Thanksgiving.

34:30

I remember that it is, and we make regular

34:33

Thanksgiving food, all the traditional

34:35

things. But if you're Italian, the Italian

34:38

food makes its way.

34:39

Also.

34:39

It didn't make any sense, It was not cohesive.

34:42

But my stepfather farms

34:44

with his son, and there were beats

34:46

and Swiss chart which are not Thanksgiving

34:49

foods, but they were on the table. It

34:52

was a mishmash. It was delicious eggplant

34:54

farm. Jena is good. That's a good

34:56

comfort food. I should bring her to

34:58

London. She sounds great, she

35:01

is great. Well, you're great to thank you for

35:03

coming. Thank you wonderful, No,

35:05

thank you, We'll see. I do mean what I

35:07

said about the River Cafe. Do I need

35:10

to bring an apron or I think we'll.

35:11

Give you one. Yeah,

35:14

thank you, thank you very much. Beautiful,

35:17

really nice, really.

35:18

Nice so

35:21

far.

35:21

I was like, I know, if

35:25

you like listening to Ruthie's Table four,

35:28

would you please make sure to

35:30

rate and review the podcast on

35:32

the iHeartRadio app, Apple

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Podcasts, Spotify, o, wherever

35:37

you get your podcasts.

35:39

Thank you.

35:48

Ruthie's Table four is produced by Atami Studios

35:51

for iHeartRadio. It was hosted

35:53

by Ruthie Rogers.

35:54

It's produced by William Lensky.

35:56

Our executive producers are Sad Rogers

35:58

and Fay Stewart.

36:00

Our production manager is Caitline Paramount.

36:02

Special thanks to everyone at the River Cafe.