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0:30

Hello, and a warm welcome to another

0:32

special episode of Rosebud. Oh, by

0:34

the way, if you hear some

0:37

rumbling in the background that is not

0:39

Nana the cat, it's Harriet Jane, the

0:41

producer, whose tummy is rumbling. There's no

0:43

way I'm going to use the hat, child.

1:11

Welcome to another episode of Rosebud. Every

1:13

week I say I've got a special

1:16

guest. Every week I do have a

1:18

special guest. This week's guest is extra

1:20

special. As you'll

1:22

discover, I first met him more than

1:24

half a century ago. He's

1:27

been famous all his life. He

1:29

is the creator of one

1:31

of the most iconic comic

1:33

characters of our time. He's

1:35

a most intriguing and

1:37

occasionally troubled individual. I want

1:40

to discover what originally made him

1:42

the man he now is. Welcome

1:45

to Rosebud with John

1:47

Cleese. Cue the music. Thank

1:53

You. You.

2:03

Will not remember this John that we first

2:05

met more than half a century ago. In

2:08

a bus a bus there was

2:10

you and all the other person's

2:12

there was me. there was Jilly

2:14

Cooper there was also called Lizzie

2:16

Thomas were written version soldiers Oas and

2:19

this bus took us through the

2:21

country we went to Leicester we

2:23

ended up in Leeds and it was

2:25

a book tour and it was

2:27

the first time the by since have

2:29

done a book oh shit I

2:31

am messy when and sailors all of

2:34

you and I was the youngest

2:36

member of the team and we

2:38

we. Spent a few days

2:40

together traveling around the country

2:42

and we went and which

2:44

is aton everywhere we went.

2:46

What I remember most was

2:48

the last day. When.

2:50

We were saying goodbye to one another

2:53

and you came up to me a

2:55

twenty two and you will trends nine

2:57

or thirty and you gave me a

2:59

copy of the book advertising book the

3:01

by the book in which would put

3:04

Chiles. Nice speech-

3:07

Every. Time. I'm

3:10

I'm really pleased me so much nice and

3:12

I've kept it was for more than half

3:14

a census. You have been part of my

3:16

life with the something like time to two

3:18

days when you as as he and I

3:20

wasn't into this mess race So we've got

3:22

to go back to the beginning because my

3:24

the phrasing of time with your of Genesis

3:26

or we're safe house It depends how far

3:28

that we can get some days ago. I

3:30

hope that Stacey for years to when you

3:32

were born but did you have a life

3:35

before you were born? Out

3:37

already have one that I don't recall.

3:39

reason i asked that his us when

3:42

my sister died i went to see

3:44

a and the who ran a sales

3:46

to get tougher the other side when

3:48

prices area that syncing i mean i

3:50

was some sat in bottom nemesis reaching

3:52

out to the as a lot of

3:54

people do this and i went to

3:56

see a medium and i really liked

3:58

i found a very empathetic And she said,

4:00

don't worry, let's get in touch with the other side and

4:02

see if we can contact your sister. And

4:04

she said, your sister's not coming, there are two interesting

4:06

people waiting in the anti-room to speak to you. I

4:08

thought, oh, this is rather remarkable. I

4:10

haven't got my sister. Who have you got? And the

4:13

two first people to come on the line, one was

4:15

Joan of Arc. Quickly

4:18

followed by Diana, Princess of Wales.

4:21

Oh, come on. Exactly. Wasn't

4:23

Miss Joan of Arc talking

4:25

in English? Well,

4:28

no. The lady knew that I'd been

4:31

to the French lisset in London. Oh! So

4:33

I think she cleverly thought, well, I had a bit

4:35

of Joan of Arc chatting in French. In French? In

4:38

contemporary French. Because I said, I think she's a

4:40

14th century figure. Surely the language was strange. They

4:42

said, no, they have classes up in heaven. Let's

4:44

go back to the beginning of your story. I

4:46

know you're born 27th of October. I was certainly

4:48

born of no question. What

4:51

I want to ask you, seriously, John, is

4:53

what is your very first memory?

4:55

Yeah, I think

4:58

it is looking

5:00

up at

5:02

a tree under which

5:05

my crown had been placed. And

5:07

I have some odd feeling that

5:09

I can remember looking up and

5:12

seeing the foliage against

5:14

the sky behind it. Where would this tree

5:16

have been? Where were you? I

5:18

can tell you that. It would have been in Brent

5:20

Knoll, which is

5:23

a tiny little sort

5:25

of farming town, very small, not

5:27

far from Western Supermar. And the

5:29

reason I was there was

5:32

that I was born in Uphill,

5:34

which is a suburb just south

5:36

of the Western Supermar. And

5:39

in 1941, the

5:41

Germans bombed Western

5:44

Supermar, which caused a bit of

5:46

surprise, because why would

5:48

they waste perfectly good bombs on a

5:51

place like Western? You

5:53

know, I figured out, I Mean, there was nothing

5:55

in Western that a bomb could destroy that would

5:57

be as valuable as the bomb that destroyed it.

6:00

Beat in the First World war

6:02

for three the house years is

6:04

is not like loud bangs and

6:07

with over the next day I

6:09

think he was in a car

6:11

driving around the Somerset countryside looking

6:14

saw a song where we could

6:16

spend the war unless basically what

6:18

we found one in fresno. Was.

6:21

Be more peaceful, A New Bones. Yeah

6:23

we were best right and also

6:25

the great advantage of a on

6:28

a sounds are in they it

6:30

costs of freshening was a season

6:32

as ticket or even of it'll

6:34

take disappeared ah no one gives

6:36

us access as. Soon.

6:38

As your father who was your

6:41

mother what were their names Reginald

6:43

Francis Cease because when my dad

6:45

was born in eighty ninety same

6:47

bus stops and he is/same as

6:50

to ease his dad was John

6:52

Edwin Cease and they were so

6:54

set up a Vinci's about is

6:56

silly name that when he joined

6:59

the army and nineteen sixties he

7:01

changed the a steward else. I

7:03

don't know what he thought he

7:05

was achieving much as I was

7:08

always. Coach she's my daughter's Camilla

7:10

was always told cheesy himself of

7:12

he should have changed to something

7:14

or infancy lot with since are.

7:18

You nervous Rubenstein? Said

7:22

Mister Gee's Mr T supporters is what

7:24

is his life, what is his career

7:26

was in his first one one the

7:29

only was very low t left when

7:31

he was sixteen. He was very good

7:33

at maths. He went into insurance very

7:35

early on and there was a lotta

7:38

last. year around and most an

7:40

audience days and frontline last time

7:42

on my hands on the limits

7:44

of practical chance and illness counterfeits

7:47

and then he joined up and

7:49

nineteen sixties when he came out

7:51

sees some reason ski he was

7:53

ips as he wasn't educated man

7:56

but he spoke perfect english with

7:58

have received for those and

8:00

he was totally literate, used

8:02

to the telegraph crossword. But

8:05

he'd never read what I would call

8:07

an important book, you know? Was

8:10

he a kindly man? Was he a hugely kind?

8:12

Hugely kind. War with the father? Yes,

8:14

yes. He was

8:16

very kind and very,

8:18

how can

8:21

I say, I remember how keen

8:23

he was, even then those days at

8:25

Western Superman to put out a hand

8:27

to anyone who was not

8:30

necessarily white. I remember

8:32

inviting people to tea. He met them and,

8:34

you know, they were from the Far East

8:36

and he invited them to tea. He was

8:39

very light, a man entirely without prejudice. My

8:42

mother was not keen on the

8:44

Welsh, but otherwise she was pretty

8:46

good. Who was your mother then?

8:48

My mother was Muriel

8:51

Evelyn Cleese and

8:53

she was a housewife and she was

8:55

a good housewife. She cooked very well.

8:57

She kept the house impeccable,

9:00

but she didn't have a

9:02

very good temperament because

9:04

she was very

9:07

anxious and she got depressed

9:09

a lot. Now, I

9:11

sometimes think that the depression came,

9:13

I believe, after somebody told me

9:15

that sometimes if a child birth

9:17

is sufficiently difficult, it

9:19

can affect the mother afterwards and

9:22

I think that's perhaps what happened because

9:24

I think she and I were quite happy.

9:26

And then when I came along, I think

9:28

she changed personality a bit, became much more

9:32

anxious and much more depressed. So

9:34

you were the first born then? I

9:38

was the only born. You were the only born. They were together

9:40

for 13 or 14 years before I was born.

9:46

At least there was some excitement, we hope, in

9:48

your conception. And eventually you

9:50

were born after 13 years of no children. A

9:52

little bit of a surprise, perhaps. I

9:54

think a little bit of a mistake because

9:57

mum would often mention that I was a

9:59

mistake. She would

10:01

tell people we'd only

10:03

met quite recently. But

10:05

this depression, this postnatal depression, it

10:08

lasted beyond. Oh yes, she's

10:10

still the rest of her life with it. She's

10:12

depressed and anxious almost all the time. And...

10:16

And how did that affect you? You wanted to

10:18

concentrate on it. Well, I think the answer is

10:20

that you may be, later

10:22

in life, you marry people who are a

10:24

bit depressed in the hope that you can

10:26

get it right this time. I'm being quite

10:28

serious, I think there is an element of

10:30

that. Because you, I know you've talked about

10:32

this, you've been in therapy off and on.

10:34

Oh! Trying to work out...

10:37

When I'm not in the dentist chair, I'm in

10:39

therapy. And this is because you're hoping to work

10:41

out a successful relationship with a woman. Yes,

10:46

and I think if you're lucky enough to

10:48

get a good therapist, and I'm not sure

10:50

there's an awful lot of good ones, I

10:54

think that you can change. And I think

10:56

I've managed to change quite

10:58

a bit during the course of my life.

11:00

Because I think when I was at Cambridge,

11:02

I was quite snotty, really. You

11:05

know, I just carried all those prejudices

11:07

on others. All my

11:09

thinking was left hemisphere, you know, that

11:11

very sort of, he's got a mind

11:14

like a steel trap, you know. But

11:17

I was completely hopeless in a

11:19

lot of other areas. Like, I

11:21

could never understand what

11:23

the point of poetry was. You

11:26

know, I sort of said, why don't they just say what

11:28

they want? I

11:30

had that, and that's a typical

11:33

left hemisphere approach to something. And

11:35

I think my whole life has been

11:37

a sort of correction, moving more into

11:39

the air of the right hemisphere,

11:42

which is that part of our brain that I

11:44

think gives us a sense of meaning. So

11:47

when you're with the therapist, obviously you explore your

11:49

parents and your relationship with them. Yes,

11:51

yes. And what is the conclusion you

11:54

have come to about what your parents

11:56

contributed to the challenges you've had over

11:58

the years? I think I

12:00

was frightened of my mom a bit because

12:03

she didn't have a very bad temper and

12:05

dad was certainly frightened of her. I mean

12:08

when she got angry, you know

12:10

that expression about somebody being beside

12:12

themselves? It's that sort

12:14

of, they turned into someone else. And

12:17

I think I had a great fear,

12:20

a fear

12:22

of discomfort of being around women

12:25

literally until I was probably 33, 34 I

12:28

think I was beginning to overcome it then.

12:32

I think Connie Booth had to put up with

12:34

a rather strange creature for the first few years

12:36

of our marriage. I guess I went to a

12:39

single sex school, I went to prep school. Tell

12:41

us about the school. You went to St Peter's

12:43

school? I went to St Peter's school, West of

12:45

Supermail, about a hundred boys.

12:48

And I looked back and it was so much affection.

12:50

There were just a lot of very

12:53

nice, bright, slightly

12:56

moth-eaten male teachers there.

12:58

All of them obsessed by

13:01

the lunchtime scoreboard, which in the old

13:03

days would be the county

13:05

cricket scores would come through at lunchtime

13:07

and they'd all sit. And

13:10

they were all nice, kind

13:12

people earning almost

13:15

nothing but enjoying

13:17

the life and really, really

13:20

kind towards the kids, caring for

13:22

them. No

13:25

corporal punishment? I

13:28

think it was theoretically corporal punishment. Because

13:30

I feel, I've read some world story

13:32

about you being beaten over the hand.

13:35

Oh, that was much earlier. Oh, when was

13:38

it? Oh yeah, that was when I was

13:40

about seven. I went

13:42

to a school just right out of

13:44

Dickens and I can

13:46

still remember it. I got some division, some, but

13:48

I mean it was long division, you know, sort

13:50

of three or four digits and I got it

13:53

wrong twice and got beaten on

13:55

the hand. I remember

13:57

the sense of outrage that I felt.

13:59

Well, dad took me out of the

14:01

school almost immediately. But then I

14:03

went on to Clifton College, it was a public

14:05

school you see, because my

14:07

parents had a little bit of money. Mum

14:10

inherited a little bit of money from her

14:13

auctioneer father. And

14:16

they spent it all on my education.

14:18

And Clifton College was a success? Yes,

14:21

yes, I didn't like it much to

14:23

begin with. And then I loved it

14:25

very, very much indeed. And then I

14:28

got bored with it. Just the right time, just before

14:30

I left. Did you have friendships there? Do you want

14:32

to be your best friend? Yes, very good friendships, yeah.

14:34

Do you want to be your best friend? Money of

14:36

them, you see, one of the awful things about being

14:39

84 is so many people die.

14:42

And I've lost an enormous number of friends in

14:44

the last 10 years. I'm not

14:46

feeling too good myself. Hmm? I'm

14:49

not feeling too good myself. Ha ha ha! Well,

14:52

I can always do that. I'm

14:55

not feeling too good myself. This is very... What

14:58

a way to go! How can I say, if I'm

15:00

going to go during one of these recordings, you are

15:03

the person with whom I do want to go. Well,

15:05

I did kill a man once, you know. How did

15:07

that happen? He was a

15:09

dentist in Copenhagen. No,

15:12

not Copenhagen. Aertram's the second largest town in

15:14

Denmark. Not a very big town. And he

15:16

was a big bear-like

15:18

man, much loved in

15:20

the town because of his compulsive laugh.

15:23

And he went to the first showing

15:26

of Fishcore Wonder and

15:28

started laughing about three or four minutes

15:30

in and was carried out

15:32

dead an hour late. He laughed himself

15:34

to death. That's fantastic. And had a

15:36

heart attack. And I always thought, you've

15:38

got to go anyway. It's not a

15:41

bad way. Oh, look, fantastic. In your

15:43

billy, you will say with a please,

15:45

they die laughing. Ha ha ha! That's

15:47

fantastic. And when I told Kevin Kline

15:50

about this, because he's a typical actor,

15:52

he said to me, exactly

15:55

which scene. Ha ha

15:58

ha ha! I

16:00

said I don't think

16:03

anyone noticed that

16:05

I did kill the man. Oh, it's good. I

16:07

killed a man. Oh. But not,

16:09

I'm afraid, as brilliantly as you did. It

16:11

was somebody called Rod Hull. Do you remember

16:13

Rod Hull? Oh, the Emu man. The Emu

16:16

man. We were at the theatre.

16:18

We were the first night of Animal Crackers. It

16:20

was a show about the Marx Brothers. Oh! Terrible

16:23

weather. Terrible, terrible weather that night. Was this written

16:25

by Dick Vosborough? It could have been, yes. I

16:28

think it was. It was a few years ago.

16:30

Anyway, whatever the time is that Rod Hull

16:32

died. And he was sitting next to me and he was complaining all through

16:34

the show. He was

16:37

interrupting the show and was going on about how

16:39

he couldn't get, he wanted to get home because

16:41

he wanted to watch the football. But his aerial,

16:43

his sky aerial on his thing

16:45

wasn't transmitting properly. And I said

16:47

don't moan about it. If

16:49

you want to watch the television, get a ladder out. Go on

16:52

to the roof and fix it, Rod. And

16:54

after the show, in the stormy weather, he went home, he

16:57

got out a ladder, he climbed the ladder, and he tried

16:59

to fix the aerial. Unfortunately,

17:01

the wind was very great. Oh, yes. He

17:03

fell backwards off the ladder and killed himself.

17:05

Oh, I wasn't actually there. But

17:07

I'd encouraged him. Oh,

17:10

how extraordinary. I never knew he

17:12

died like that. It was a great funeral

17:14

there because at his funeral, the coffin came in and

17:17

as the coffin was being carried in, there was a storm. There's

17:20

a range for a beak sound to be inside

17:22

the coffin as though the emu was also in

17:25

the top of the... I

17:29

also killed Harry Thekum. Oh,

17:33

no. Yes. Oh,

17:35

he's the most marvellous human being

17:37

I've ever met. How really? Why did you

17:39

kill him? Because you loved the goons, did

17:41

you? I loved the goons, but

17:43

I knew him personally. And I

17:46

thought he was absolutely a wonderful,

17:48

wonderful human being. I remember I

17:50

was so shocked when he died.

17:52

And he died unexpectedly, unfortunately. I'm

17:54

trying to remember his wife's name. She was a lovely lady.

17:57

Oh, yes, it was a Welsh name, I think.

18:00

it was a Welsh name, he very kindly

18:02

wasn't feeling well and he was I was

18:04

doing a program for LBC 1990s

18:08

or just the beginning of this of the 21st century and he

18:10

went ahead with the interview he

18:13

had to do my phone he couldn't come into the studio and

18:15

he was standing at the top of the stairs exactly

18:18

and the interview went well and he was

18:20

holding the phone saying I've finished doing the

18:22

interview with Giles now it

18:25

went surprising and

18:27

he'd stepped back to call down to his wife and

18:30

he'd step backwards down the stairs

18:32

and I'm afraid a few days

18:34

later he died so

18:38

that's why we've got carers who are going to

18:40

take you into the street now yeah see you

18:42

safely into your cab yeah because we don't want

18:44

anything going wrong with you hey

18:47

what a triple Rottal and the

18:49

man who killed Rottal and you Harry

18:51

Seachem the nicest of the goons

18:54

and now John Cheese everything goes

18:56

in trees wanted

18:59

to ask I had no idea why Harry

19:01

died but when I met spent some time

19:03

with him I just thought this is the

19:05

one of the loveliest people I've ever met

19:08

yeah he was a nice guy was kindly

19:10

just lovely it was a happy time at

19:12

school really yes it was

19:14

particularly latterly I had a lot

19:16

of good friends and I had

19:18

a lot of experience I

19:21

I had a

19:23

certain what's the word

19:26

a certain cheekiness but it

19:28

was very introverted cheekiness but

19:30

I had a slightly subversive attitude

19:33

from very early on I found

19:35

it hard to take things seriously

19:38

particularly ceremonies in church you know

19:40

what I mean I was on

19:43

the fit of giggles just disrespection

19:45

of solemnity I think would be a

19:47

bit worried about it and

19:50

I think my my housemaster disapproved

19:53

of this and

19:56

I he never gave made me

19:58

a prefecture everyone at my age

20:01

became a prefect and I was never

20:03

made a prefect. And after I'd been

20:05

in the cricket team and got 3A

20:07

levels, I thought, well, it'd make me

20:10

a prefect now. Not that it mattered

20:12

much, but it was vaguely prestigious and

20:14

I was never made a prefect at

20:16

any point. Palin has the same experience.

20:19

Python insisted entirely on public school failures

20:22

and grammar school head boys. And

20:25

one does resent it? Yes, when I look back at it, I don't

20:27

know why, but he couldn't stand my liberty. I'm

20:35

surprised that you weren't made head boy because you

20:37

stood out from the crowd because you must have

20:39

been the tallest boy in the school. Oh, yes.

20:42

Was that, in fact, a disadvantage, being

20:44

so tall? It was, it was really,

20:46

because after all, when you're in your

20:48

teenage years, you sometimes want to be

20:51

able to hide a bit out of

20:53

embarrassment at 6'4", because I can remember

20:55

being measured for the core. You

20:58

know, when we played Soldiers on

21:00

Monday afternoon, I was measured when I was

21:02

14 and I was 6'4 already.

21:06

I know. Age 14. And

21:08

then I never grew. Wow. Were you teased about being

21:10

tall when you were small? Affectionately.

21:12

Not unpleasantly. That wasn't an issue for you.

21:14

No, I didn't. I had a little teasing

21:16

at the beginning when I went to St.

21:18

Peter's, but I didn't get teased. I got

21:20

on quite well with people because I could

21:22

make them laugh. It's

21:29

Giles here, and I'm delighted to tell you

21:31

that 2024 is a very

21:33

special time for our sponsor, the

21:35

J.W. Marriott Grosvenor House, because

21:38

it's their 95th birthday. Yes,

21:40

in 1929, Grosvenor

21:42

House opened to the public for the first time,

21:45

and ever since then, it's been

21:47

setting the standard for service, comfort,

21:49

food and hospitality. In

21:52

celebration of this momentous anniversary, Grosvenor

21:54

House and Rosebud offer listeners the

21:56

chance to book a special Rosebud

21:59

TV show. at the hotel

22:01

from the 18th of March until the 8th

22:03

of May. This will be served

22:06

in the beautiful Parkroom overlooking Hyde

22:08

Park and will feature a

22:10

delicious English cream tea with

22:13

clotted cream, rose petal

22:15

jam, a pot of newbie

22:17

fine tea and a selection

22:19

of delicate rosebud themed cakes.

22:22

Visit www.parkroom.co.uk.

22:24

That's www.parkroom.co.uk

22:26

to book.

22:31

In the meantime, please join me in

22:33

wishing the JW Marriott Grover the house

22:35

and everyone who works there a very

22:37

happy 95th anniversary. May

22:40

you carry on being the very best at what

22:42

you do for many years to

22:44

come. 95. Wow. But

22:52

you're obviously quite clever because you get these A

22:55

levels. Clever at some things. And you get into

22:57

Cambridge. I got into Cambridge. Are

22:59

you the first member of your family to be young? Oh

23:01

yes, yes. And that's an achievement.

23:03

Of course, it's a great achievement. Well, if you've

23:05

got good teaching, I mean, you know,

23:08

that's yes, but I could

23:10

always think straight. And I think, I

23:12

think as a boy, I was

23:14

left brain and I looked at

23:16

the fortnightly orders and I realized

23:18

you've got more marks for

23:21

maths and Latin than you

23:23

did for anything else. So

23:25

I became good at maths and Latin.

23:28

I was terrible at French and I

23:30

didn't understand English at all. But

23:33

and so I got into the

23:35

scientific stream at

23:37

Clifton and I was fascinated

23:40

by psychology. You see, I'd always interested.

23:42

And so I wanted to be a

23:44

biologist so that I could get into

23:46

psychology really. And when you went to

23:48

Cambridge, what did you read? What was

23:51

your thought? Well, I really see what

23:53

I was going to say was I went

23:55

into the biology stream and the teaching

23:58

was so terrible. Stubbs

24:00

and Davey were so

24:02

absolutely hopeless. I thought I'll never get

24:04

my emails. So I switched to the

24:07

physics stream, and

24:09

I got in on sort of physics and

24:11

maths and chemistry. And then

24:13

they wouldn't take me straight away

24:16

because they just abolished national service. I

24:18

had two years to spend, and

24:20

my old prep school headmaster said, John, would

24:22

you like to come back to your old

24:25

school and teach? And

24:27

I loved it though. I was so happy though.

24:29

And of course I knew half the masters because

24:31

they taught me. And I remember,

24:33

this is absolutely true, I went to him and I

24:35

said, well what do you want me to teach? And

24:37

he said, English, history, and geography, to

24:39

the 10 year olds. I

24:42

said, Mr. Tolson, I don't know anything

24:44

about those. I've done science for 31

24:46

out of 35 parents a week for

24:49

three years. And he said, John, the

24:51

10 year

24:53

olds stay a page ahead.

24:57

And in the very first history lesson, there was

24:59

this boy in the front row with white hair,

25:02

and he knew all the dates

25:05

of the kings and queens of England I

25:07

discovered to my heart. And

25:10

in the middle of the first lesson, he said to me,

25:12

so what are the dates of Henry

25:14

VIII? I said, we're not

25:16

talking about Henry VIII. And

25:19

then I set them a task

25:22

and ran to the common room and

25:24

looked it up and came back and said, oh, by

25:26

the way, you were asked about Henry VIII, 1509

25:29

to 1547, and he looked at me and said, what

25:34

about Charles X? I nearly

25:36

said that's not fair. I'm

25:42

amazed you didn't write a prep school or

25:44

public school comedy, because it's got

25:46

the makings there. Oh, absolutely. Delicious.

25:49

Well, do you remember Wacko with

25:51

Jimmy Edwards? Yes. Wasn't that brilliant?

25:53

Yes. That was a minor

25:55

public school. I know it was

25:57

minor public school, but nobody there was really.

26:00

mean. They were just a bit weird

26:02

and incompetent. All the beatings were done at

26:04

the best of I

26:07

never saw a beating and I was never beaten

26:10

because I was not bold enough to do the

26:12

sort of thing you got beaten for. I was

26:14

subversive and would mutter things

26:16

that the teacher couldn't hear and there'd be

26:18

laughter at the back of the room. In

26:21

fact my history teacher was Mr Whitmarsh who

26:23

couldn't pronounce his own name. He had

26:26

a trouble with

26:28

his arse and he called himself Mr

26:32

Whitmarsh. He taught the

26:34

17th century which

26:36

was a disaster you see because he

26:39

had to teach everything that started with

26:41

an R like the loyalists and Oliver

26:44

Cromwell. He

26:48

wrote in my history report he simply

26:50

wrote, please indulge us

26:52

in subversive activities at the back

26:54

of the road. But

26:59

you got into Cambridge. Which college? Downing.

27:02

One of the least distinguished

27:05

I used to say. Downing, Fitzwilliam and

27:07

Sidney Sussex I used to call them

27:09

the dustbin college. And

27:13

I didn't spend much time going in there because

27:15

I was in there for the first year and

27:17

then I got digs. One

27:19

of these extraordinary things does

27:21

an absolute fluke. I got

27:23

great digs about 50

27:26

yards from the Footlights Club.

27:28

And the Footlights is where your life changes

27:31

and becomes the life we know. But before

27:33

we get there, had girls entered your life

27:35

by this time? Had you had your first

27:37

kiss by the time you got

27:39

to Cambridge? No. Nowhere

27:42

near I lost my virginity

27:44

in the station Hotel Auckland,

27:47

New Zealand in

27:50

19. What would it would have been 19? I

27:53

was in my mid-20s anyway.

27:56

I was very, very naive

27:58

and awkward as I say.

28:00

American women. And... Auckland

28:03

is the right place, I think. I mean, the

28:05

other side of the world, nobody's going to know

28:07

about that. That's why I do... that's why when

28:09

I first did a stage show, I did it

28:12

in New Zealand, because if it was disaster, no

28:14

one would know. And

28:16

so losing your virginity was a disaster. No, it was.

28:19

In fact, I haven't met the lady

28:21

since. Well, another visit.

28:24

And my daughter met her and was

28:26

rather curious about it. No,

28:29

she was very nice. I liked her very

28:31

much. But I was still immensely naive all

28:33

the time. I was in New York, which

28:35

I went there in... what did I go

28:37

there? 64, 65. I was in New York.

28:42

And that's when I met Connie for the first

28:44

time. And then we talked about getting

28:46

married, and she felt it was too much at that

28:48

time. So I came back at the beginning of 66,

28:51

because Frosty, David Frost,

28:55

played a huge part of my life at

28:57

that time, because he'd been at Cambridge with

28:59

me, and I'd written a bit of material,

29:01

which he'd used in the Cambridge Review. Which is

29:04

what the Pudlites did. The Pudlites, the Pudlites. The

29:06

club that was doing all the cabaret. There

29:08

was a little clubhouse, and they used to do a

29:11

show once a month, and it was all members, and

29:13

they would all perform. Everyone would perform.

29:15

So there was a very friendly supportive

29:17

atmosphere. And then they'd

29:19

do a show at the end of the summer

29:23

term. I'm interested you

29:25

gravitated towards that, because I imagine most of

29:27

the other people weren't scientists like you. No,

29:31

I think that's probably right, actually. Graham

29:33

was a doctor, you see. He and

29:35

I became very close in my second

29:37

year, his last year. Graham Chapman. Graham

29:39

Chapman. Tim Brooke Taylor was a lawyer,

29:41

like me. I switched to the law,

29:44

because I suddenly realized during the two

29:46

years I was teaching that the people

29:48

going out to Cambridge to study science

29:51

were going to be interested in it. And

29:54

I thought that that gave them an

29:56

appalling advantage. Totally

29:59

unfair. So I said to them,

30:01

what else can I do? And they said, well,

30:03

not much because you don't have the A-levels. I

30:05

said, well, what can I do? And they said,

30:07

economics. I said, pass. And

30:09

then they said, you can do law.

30:11

And I said, law. And they said,

30:13

the only other one is archaeology and

30:15

anthropology. And a boy from Western Supermare

30:18

doesn't waste university

30:20

education on rubbish. Like,

30:25

so I did law for three years, which

30:27

I could do it good because I was

30:30

good at that because I'm good with words.

30:32

I use words reasonably clearly. And you were

30:34

good at being funny. Yeah. Because

30:37

you didn't have relationships with girls, but you

30:39

could play cricket well. You got these good

30:41

A-levels. Played at Lords, you know that? Oh,

30:43

I didn't know that. Yeah, my school had

30:45

a game, two games at Lords. It was

30:47

Tunbridge, 657, 58. How

30:51

about you? In the second game,

30:53

I was out first ball. And

30:56

I actually, believe this, I actually

30:58

saw the funny side of it.

31:01

And until I walked back to the

31:04

pavilion and all these old guys sitting

31:06

there glaring at me for grilling. Staring

31:10

aside, Darwin, look, you can say you played

31:12

at Lords. I played at Lords. So the

31:15

footlights really change everything. You meet the guys.

31:17

And what do they see

31:19

in you? Why people like it? I don't

31:21

know what I liked about them, Jars, was

31:23

that they were a relaxed bunch. It was

31:25

a complete mixture of classes, but

31:28

also of subject matter.

31:30

There were historians and English people.

31:32

And psychologists,

31:35

there was a great mixture of people there. And

31:37

I used to go there almost every evening when

31:39

I finished work with my digs. I'd

31:42

walk on the road and go in

31:44

there and have my pineapple and Smith's

31:46

crisps. And

31:48

we would meet and laugh and then

31:50

occasionally write something. And

31:53

you see, if I'd been out three

31:56

miles out, cycling in every day

31:58

like some people were, I probably

32:00

wouldn't have finished up my show business. Can you see

32:02

what I mean? I do see. What's

32:05

your first recollection of sadness in your

32:07

life? The first recollection, yes. My last

32:09

year at Cambridge, I sort of fell

32:11

in love with a girl at

32:14

a vast distance. You see what I mean?

32:16

She had a boyfriend. And at the end

32:18

of the term, I stayed on to do

32:20

some work because I felt I'd fell in

32:23

behind. And I experienced this

32:25

rather odd feeling that I didn't

32:27

like very much. And

32:29

it was loneliness. And

32:32

it was the first time I think I'd ever felt

32:35

lonely. And it was

32:37

obviously connected with these feelings of love that

32:39

I had for the first time. Are

32:42

you somebody who cries? Oh,

32:44

yes. Quite, I mean, do you cry easily

32:46

at the, you know, you see? No,

32:48

not easily, but I mean, my

32:52

wife and I lost our favourite

32:54

cat on Monday. Oh, sorry.

32:56

I was just going into rehearse the

32:59

40 Tower show and

33:03

I got a phone call from my

33:05

dear wife, who I call fish, because she swims like

33:08

a fish. And she was- You

33:10

mean that woman was mowed by one? No, that's

33:12

not the reason. It's

33:15

nothing to do with the greasy eye.

33:19

And she was terribly upset.

33:21

And what I

33:23

find is you need to get into the

33:25

right area in yourself and

33:27

then you cry. And

33:29

that business of actually crying

33:31

and sobbing makes it

33:34

better. Interesting, because people

33:36

of our generation, we

33:38

didn't do that, didn't we? When we were children or

33:41

when we- No, I never saw my father die. No,

33:43

no, no. And I never heard my father say the

33:45

word fuck, nor my mother. Me too. No,

33:48

indeed in my father's case, I love you. Oh,

33:51

really? But I didn't doubt from moment that

33:53

he did. I would have expected it. I

33:57

have contemporaries who would call that father's sub.

34:00

and shake hands, you know, when they were

34:02

going back off to school. Oh. We

34:06

are a crazy bunch, aren't we?

34:08

I don't know. I think there

34:10

are some advantages to the

34:12

stiff upper leg. Oh yes. Well, my dad

34:14

was... The thing about my dad was he

34:16

would never tell anyone that he wasn't happy

34:19

because he would have thought that was putting

34:21

a burden on them and

34:24

that there would have been bad manners to have

34:26

indicated that you were not in good

34:29

spirits because then that would have put

34:31

an obligation on the other person

34:33

to somehow do something about it. Some of that

34:35

was very fine, but some of it I think

34:37

was very self-defying because

34:41

there's a certain release of emotion if

34:44

you cry. That's how you

34:47

get over a loss. Robin

34:49

Skinner always said this to me. He said,

34:52

Robin Skinner was the therapist that I

34:54

saw at one point and I helped

34:56

him write two books. He

34:59

said, depression is frozen sadness. It's

35:01

sadness. You can't feel the sadness.

35:03

So you get into this dead

35:05

state so that you don't feel

35:07

the sadness, but that

35:09

means you don't feel anything else either. And

35:11

that's what's awful about depression. So if you can

35:13

actually feel the sadness, that's

35:16

how we human beings recover from

35:18

loss. Has faith ever

35:20

been a part of your life? Religious faith? No,

35:24

not really. I think it was up to 15 and I was confirmed and

35:32

I sort of expected some sort of

35:34

golden haze to descend

35:36

on me. And I was very

35:38

disappointed that it didn't. And

35:41

I became very dismissive of

35:43

religion. And then, there's

35:45

an extraordinary thing to say, and I

35:47

began to get interested again when I

35:50

was doing prereading

35:52

for Life of Brian. Quite

35:55

seriously. Graham Chapman

35:57

knew someone at Windsor Chapel.

36:00

went and talked to him and I read a

36:02

couple of books and I got interested because I

36:05

feel very strongly we do not live

36:08

in what they call a materialist

36:10

reductionist world. I think there's much

36:12

more going on and

36:14

I think scientists don't want to recognize

36:16

it or acknowledge it because they can't

36:18

explain it. But I know

36:20

a lot of academics more in America

36:22

than here who are involved in research

36:24

on these things and I don't think

36:27

there's any doubt at all that certain

36:29

site phenomena happen for example at remote

36:31

viewing. There's no question but the

36:33

middle of the road scientists seem to be

36:35

threatened by this. I would have thought the

36:37

natural intelligence scientific response

36:39

was to be vaguely

36:42

curious but there is

36:44

a response is I

36:46

don't know anything about it because I know it's

36:48

rubbish. Michael Palin when he came on to Rosebud

36:50

said that you were the funniest person he had

36:52

ever known and that when laughing

36:55

with you was one of the great pleasures of his

36:57

life. We just had

36:59

an exchange because you know

37:01

he's got a book out about great-uncle Harry.

37:04

Yes. So I

37:06

sent a message to him a week ago saying

37:09

I had an elderly aunt or at least

37:11

when she was nine she disappeared into a

37:14

hen house and she

37:16

never appeared again. Did

37:19

you think there was a book in

37:21

it or maybe three? And he said

37:24

let's work on it it'll sell more

37:26

than all the rest of your books

37:28

combined. But he's

37:31

probably right. Yes. I can see the movie.

37:33

I wrote back to him and said yes

37:35

the only books I've ever written have been

37:37

about psychiatry and therapy and creativity. I said

37:39

I think I'll try something a little less

37:42

demanding. Obviously you and the

37:44

Pythons you were happy together. Yeah we

37:46

were very very happy. How many years

37:48

did you have together with the TV

37:51

shows and the movies? Well we started

37:53

in in 69 and we did

37:57

another series in 70. And

38:00

by that time already things were

38:02

happening. You see Chapman was not

38:04

an alcoholic when we started. And

38:07

he started drinking between the first and

38:09

second series. And we were

38:11

halfway through the second series before we

38:13

realized suddenly there was

38:15

a problem. And

38:18

when he started to drink, first of all, he

38:21

wasn't a good timekeeper anyway, but he would

38:24

turn up very late. And I

38:26

found he couldn't remember in the afternoon what

38:28

we'd written in the morning. And

38:30

none of the other prices wanted to write with

38:32

him. So there were difficulties

38:34

quite early on. I

38:36

used to fight a lot with Terry Jones.

38:39

It was very fond of Terry, but he

38:41

felt passionately about everything. And

38:43

I found that every time we

38:46

had a sort of headbutting session, which used

38:48

to go on and on, because he'd

38:50

never give on anything. And even if

38:53

I'd sort of won a point, I

38:55

used to care so much about the

38:57

work we were doing. It was so

38:59

important that it was absolutely as good

39:01

as possible. And he was

39:03

the same. When you have that kind

39:06

of passionate commitment to try and make

39:08

it as funny as possible, then when

39:10

you have different ideas, it's gonna be

39:12

clashes. So it never got nasty. We

39:15

never swan punches at

39:17

each other, but we used to shout a bit

39:19

down again. I

39:21

mean, I envy you. I

39:24

worship you and envy you at the same time, because

39:26

you kind of- I haven't seen enough of the worship.

39:28

No, I know. I'm working on that. We're coming to

39:30

that. We're coming to that. People with

39:33

infants will be arriving shortly. They're

39:36

not going to be arranged. Most better.

39:38

If you say incest or incest. What?

39:42

You know about the man

39:44

who couldn't remember the difference between

39:47

us and incest, kept setting

39:49

fire to his sister. I

39:52

thought you were going to tell me about the

39:54

threesome. What? Have you ever tried a threesome? No.

39:57

No. I tried a threesome once. Did

39:59

you say it? Well, it went so

40:01

well because there were two no-shows. Very

40:04

good. But

40:08

you, the reason that I worship you

40:11

and admire you and envy you is

40:13

because you know... Is that all? Yeah, it is

40:15

all. But it is a... there's a good reason.

40:18

I'm sure there's many good reasons. You

40:20

can enunciate a couple of... Well,

40:23

because the only ambition that I have

40:25

that I have not fulfilled and would love to would

40:27

be to create something mystic. Admire

40:30

hugely the people who have created

40:32

something mystic, like J.M. Barrie created

40:34

Peter Pan. You

40:37

know, Arthur Conan Doyle created Sherlock Holmes. These

40:39

are extraordinary things to have done. You

40:42

have created a range of characters

40:44

in Python, but you then went

40:46

on to create, with your first

40:48

wife Connie Booth, Basil

40:51

Forti. You have created

40:53

a figure that will live beyond

40:55

your life, that can actually be

40:57

played as now it's happening in

40:59

the West End by somebody else.

41:02

It's a wonderful thing to have

41:04

done. When did you realise, oh,

41:07

this character that I have created is...

41:10

we can use the word iconic, so

41:12

overused. This is extraordinary. When did you

41:14

realise? Well, I think it is true.

41:17

You know, I don't know. I think

41:19

it was much more a surprise to

41:21

me that Fortitas was so successful because

41:24

I'd left Monty Python to do it. And

41:26

it never occurred to me that it

41:29

would be comfortably successful. I always assumed

41:31

that I would take

41:33

a drop in salary, which I did. I got

41:35

much less money for that. But

41:37

I wanted to do something with Connie and

41:39

we... I think we did something

41:41

very special. You did? Is

41:43

it your proudest achievement? I

41:46

don't really know. I don't put them in order,

41:48

you know. I know the

41:50

worst thing or the hardest thing in the world

41:52

was being a good parent, you

41:55

know. Because the

41:57

feedback is so slow. You

42:00

don't know at the time if you got it right.

42:03

And then 30 years later, you think I shouldn't

42:05

have done that. For example, one of my daughters,

42:07

I think I knew always that she was very

42:09

bright. She's brighter than I am. Certainly,

42:11

it was not that hard. And

42:14

because of that, I told her a lot that

42:16

she was bright. I said, you're very bright. And

42:19

that's apparently not good. It's much better

42:21

to praise kids for hard work because

42:24

if you praise them for being brilliant, then

42:26

they don't want to lose that. And so

42:28

they tend not to challenge themselves because they

42:31

might not speak quite as brilliant as you

42:33

told them. And you have daughters,

42:35

just daughters? I have two daughters, yes. One

42:37

by Connie and one by my second wife

42:39

Barbara. And that's the one that I do

42:41

a lot of writing with. Her name's Camilla.

42:44

She's a stand-up comedian. She's extraordinarily

42:46

funny. I met her in Edinburgh.

42:48

Did you? Yeah. And

42:50

she is extraordinary. She is funny. She's

42:52

very funny. She carries the burden of

42:54

being your daughter. Well, she's written a...

42:56

With a great grace. She's written a

42:59

sitcom called Neepo Baby. It's

43:02

very funny because people imagine

43:05

that it's a great advantage and it's

43:07

very much a double hit. What

43:24

are the downsides of you? We know

43:26

you're very funny, very brilliant, very charming.

43:29

But what are the downsides? Charming is the one

43:31

I had to work at. Well, but you do.

43:33

You do the research. What are the...

43:35

If you can pull that one off. George

43:39

Burns said about sincerity.

43:43

If you could do that, the sky's the limit. So

43:50

are there downsides to you? I

43:53

think the thing that I'm going to be

43:55

most disappointed in, and

43:57

a lot of people are on their deathbed.

44:00

is that I spent too much time working.

44:04

Oh, I'm just thinking, because I'm quite the reverse. When

44:06

I die, I shall be thinking, I haven't spent a lot

44:08

of time in the office. What? Yes.

44:10

There's so much to be done. Well,

44:13

there's so much work to be done. Yeah, there

44:15

is. But I tell you why, in the last four

44:18

or five years, since just before

44:21

COVID, I lost

44:23

so many friends and

44:26

my thought was always, I wish I'd

44:28

spent more time with them. And

44:30

most people say that on the deathbed, you

44:32

don't think I wish I'd spent more time

44:34

in the office. I don't, I think you,

44:37

you regret the things you didn't do. And

44:41

I'm annoyed that I'm still working

44:43

at 84 rather hard because

44:45

my nest egg disappeared with the third

44:48

divorce. And you see, if

44:50

you, if you work in England,

44:52

the old days, you don't make

44:54

vast quantities of money because you

44:56

see what happened after I'd made

44:58

40 towers was that

45:00

the BBC introduced this idea

45:02

where a comedian like Rowan

45:05

or Griff, or one of those,

45:07

you'd have your own

45:09

production company and you'd make programmes.

45:12

The BBC would give you the money

45:14

to make the programme in exchange for the right to

45:16

show it to a three time. And

45:18

then you own those things. Well, there was

45:20

nothing like that. You know, when you reckon

45:22

that my first fee for Marty Python was

45:25

£280 a programme and the

45:29

first fee for 40 towers,

45:32

six shows, writing and

45:34

performing was £6,000. These

45:37

are not vast sums. And these were buyouts,

45:39

were they? Well, more or less, I mean,

45:41

when they repeat them, then you get a

45:43

percentage of all that kind of thing. Do you

45:46

have the attention of the original fee? Yes. Not

45:48

in places. No, no, that goes. You can negotiate

45:50

that up. But there's not the sort of money

45:52

that if you've had a company that's produced good

45:54

stuff for 20 years, like the

45:57

people in the next generation, we all sold

45:59

their company for £30 million. And

46:04

in America, of course, if

46:06

you get into a

46:08

sitcom that's very, very successful in the

46:10

fourth and fifth year, you make huge

46:12

amount of money. Well, I had a

46:14

short period when I earned a lot.

46:17

But I never needed a great

46:19

deal of money, quite seriously. I

46:22

never felt that I needed money. And

46:24

I'm fascinated by very rich people who

46:26

are still greedy. I

46:28

don't get it. There's a certain point which

46:31

you think I've got enough. Are

46:33

you at peace with yourself now? I

46:35

think so. But I would like to have

46:37

a little more time off. I'm fascinated by

46:39

certain aspects of I don't believe

46:42

in God, but I think there is something out

46:44

there which some people get in

46:46

contact with and make some a better person.

46:48

And that's why they become saints

46:50

or Dalai Lama's. And why is your marriage

46:52

now working? Who is this? This is your

46:54

third wife or fourth wife? Fourth wife. Well,

46:56

I gave up on Americans. I tried to

46:59

read them. I thought I'd better shop around

47:01

a bit now. And I

47:03

walked past this woman. We

47:07

walked past each other and we both stopped

47:09

and turned round, quite literally.

47:12

And we've been together ever since.

47:14

And I think it's a particular

47:16

kind of sensibility,

47:24

laughing. I

47:26

phoned her today and the phone call

47:29

was answered by a rabbit,

47:35

passed messages on to her. And

47:38

there's a playful quality to

47:40

her and an extraordinary quickness

47:43

of wit. We make each

47:45

other laugh all the time. And Tom

47:47

Stoppard said a very beautiful thing. He

47:52

said the shortest distance between two people

47:54

is a laugh. Isn't

47:56

that lovely? It's a lovely line. And you've given so

47:59

much love to us. There were many people. Well,

48:01

you know, I just wanted to say the thing

48:03

that struck me so strongly in the last few

48:05

years was this. I was

48:07

in Sarajevo for a film festival

48:10

and they told me about the time when they

48:12

were under siege where the Serbs

48:14

for four years, the Serbs were up

48:17

in the hills, lobbing shells down and

48:19

even shooting people, crossing the

48:21

street with telescopic sights, you know. And

48:26

it was unbelievable hell.

48:31

And they got hold of an underground garage.

48:33

They turned it into a cinema and they

48:35

used to go there after dark when they

48:37

couldn't be seen to shoot them in the

48:39

streets. And they would go

48:41

and watch comedy. A lot of Monty Python,

48:43

the Balkan people, loved Monty Python. And

48:46

they said to me, when we came out,

48:49

we felt better. But

48:52

nothing had changed. So

48:54

the acts of laughing

48:57

moved them to a part of their

49:00

personality, a part of their mind where

49:02

they could cope with the situation better.

49:05

And I suddenly realized it's not just

49:07

entertainment. And then I began

49:09

to notice when I do stage shows and I

49:11

do a meet and greet afterwards how many men

49:14

have a tear in their eye and

49:16

say, thank you for making me laugh

49:18

all these years. I feel emotion when

49:21

they say it. And women say

49:23

it more. They say, thank you for helping

49:25

to form myself as a human. And

49:28

these are huge compliments, really

49:31

important stuff. And

49:33

I just began to think, and

49:35

the other thing is so many people say, thank

49:38

you for helping me through difficult times. You see,

49:40

people have a bad day in the office. Some

49:43

day they come up, get a drink, watch

49:45

a faulty tassel and they're all right. So

49:48

you was much more valuable than just

49:50

being entertainment. And I think I've only

49:52

realized that in the last 15 years.

49:55

I'm glad you have realized it. Yes.

49:58

A couple more questions and then I'll talk to you. time is up.

50:01

Who says? Well, can

50:08

you remember the first time you were

50:10

angry? Now

50:16

when I tell you something which I think is

50:18

interesting, the first time I laughed

50:23

insanely was

50:25

when David Rogers

50:29

was in prep was trying to draw

50:31

a circle with

50:35

a pair of compass. The

50:39

point of the compass kept slipping.

50:44

Three quarters of the way round the circle

50:46

it dropped. The

50:48

third time he went over

50:50

to the waste paper

50:52

basket and taken the compass

50:54

with him, took his pen and

50:57

I found sharply the metal

50:59

point of the compass and I thought

51:01

it was the funniest thing I've ever

51:03

seen. Anger

51:05

is not funny but suppressed

51:08

anger is hilarious and

51:10

he's almost basmal actually. So that's, yes. I was

51:12

almost basmal. That's where he gets the thing. I

51:14

was about 12 and I just thought it was

51:16

the funniest thing. I remember it was David Rogers.

51:19

David Rogers. We thank him for being

51:21

the basmal because you aren't particularly basmal.

51:23

People say you must have been basmal. Yeah,

51:26

people always say that and I think it's

51:28

because they don't understand creativity. They

51:30

don't actually understand that you can come up

51:32

with something that's really rather

51:34

different and isn't that... People,

51:37

novelists are always thinking that something must

51:39

have happened that gave you the idea

51:42

and the answer is no. If you

51:44

know how to be creative

51:46

and I just wrote a little book on

51:48

it. It takes 50 minutes

51:50

to read. If you know how to get

51:52

into that playful meditative state, you can

51:54

come up to stuff that's so original

51:57

it makes you laugh because you never

51:59

heard it before. The

52:01

reason I asked about the anger is that

52:03

sometimes I get the impression that you've been

52:05

quite angry in recent years. This

52:08

may be my fault for looking at

52:10

you on social media. Oh,

52:13

well, I don't think there's a great deal

52:15

to be proud about, you see. And I

52:17

think if you are, you know, the idea

52:19

of Trump becoming president is, I

52:22

mean, it's almost the end of civilization. So

52:25

you were still, you're still, yes. So that's what

52:28

I get. I feel, yeah, I just feel there's

52:30

so many things that need to be made better.

52:33

And so I tweet about that. I would

52:35

say I tweet critically because there's not an

52:37

awful lot at the moment to be proud

52:39

of. I

52:42

mean, you see, so when people say, if

52:44

you're young and you're really against society, everybody

52:46

says, oh, he's splendid and his heart's in

52:48

the right place. If you're old, they say,

52:50

oh, you're grumpy. The answer is

52:52

there's a lot of things in our society

52:54

that aren't right. And now

52:56

and again, it's very good to point that

52:59

out. And if possible, make a good joke

53:01

about it. Excellent. I'm pleased. We've,

53:03

we've gathered up. You're not a grumpy old man. Oh

53:05

no, not at all. In fact, I think I laugh

53:08

more than I used to because I'm much happier than

53:10

I used to. I used to carry a lot of

53:12

tension. And I

53:14

think the therapy was very helpful and got me

53:16

much more relaxed. And to people listening

53:18

to this, what is your message? What have you

53:21

in your 84 years learned that

53:23

you'd like to share? That's the

53:25

last word. Don't

53:28

be too sure of yourself. Tell

53:32

you we can beat that. Well I'm very

53:34

sure that you, you are brilliant. I am. You

53:37

are brilliant. You're a comic genius. Blast it off.

53:40

But the incense is being brought by a furophus.

53:42

Do you know what a furophus is? A furophus

53:44

is the person who brings the incense in a

53:46

furoble. Oh, yes, that's right. And

53:49

they'll be clanking and they'll be coming into the room in a moment.

53:52

And they'll be, you know the

53:54

smell I prefer is marijuana. I

53:57

don't smoke it because I think it smells much better. Can

54:01

we have somebody come in waving one

54:03

of those things around with marijuana? I'm

54:06

not sure that the Greater House is wanting that. It's

54:08

part of their reputation. They don't have to know. They

54:10

don't have to know. We can rest over the windows.

54:13

The secret marijuana, rose

54:15

petals, and my thanks to

54:18

you. I'm worshipping at the shrine of

54:20

John P. I have to say,

54:22

John Cheese would have been a much better name. Much better.

54:25

Things could have worked out. Well, I think it would have worked

54:27

out. You've been called John Cheese. But

54:29

then I get to Jack Cheese, which is

54:31

even better. And then

54:33

I go and live in Monterey, do

54:35

you know that? No. There's a cheese

54:37

made in Monterey called Jack Cheese. You

54:40

could become the first man of Monterey.

54:42

I could. I could be

54:44

mayor there, you know. But you could be

54:46

the president of Monterey. I could

54:49

be Jack Cheese, the artist formerly known as

54:51

John P. I

54:54

think it's time to end on a laugh.

54:57

Cue the music. That

55:05

was John Cheese. Fascinating. I'm

55:08

Charles Brandreth, and I'm very lucky

55:11

week in, week out to come

55:13

to Groven House on Park Lane

55:15

and meet these extraordinary people who've

55:17

had an impact across the

55:19

world and have fascinating stories

55:21

to tell and intriguing

55:23

childhoods to remember. It's

55:26

really remarkable. Thank you for being part

55:28

of the Rosebud Club and tuning in

55:30

every week. And you won

55:32

every Friday and the occasional bonus on

55:34

a Monday. The other day, we were

55:36

feeling a bit gray on a Monday morning, and Harriet,

55:38

our producer, said, I'm feeling a bit low. I want

55:40

to be cheered up. And so she

55:42

looked down the list of who we'd recently done and

55:44

said, oh, Dermot O'Leary.

55:47

He's nice. Actually, it's a grim Monday

55:49

morning. Look at the news headlines. Come on.

55:51

We need sharing up. We need somebody who

55:53

is light, bright, interesting,

55:56

intelligent, got a surprising story

55:58

to tell. Of course, everyone

56:01

loves Rupert Everett. Ha ha! And

56:03

everyone is going to be absolutely

56:05

hooked on Katherine Ryan. The

56:07

things she reveals, she makes Miriam

56:10

Margolis look like a prude. It's

56:13

all happening here on Rosewood. We've

56:20

had an email from Vicky Simon. My

56:23

earliest memory is of being out shopping

56:25

in the small Shropshire town where we

56:27

lived, where everybody knew everybody else. I

56:30

was probably three or four. In

56:32

the green grocers, a woman bent over and asked

56:34

me, and whose little girl are you? To

56:37

which I replied without hesitation, Graham

56:40

Dangerfield. He was a

56:42

famous naturalist and TV presenter in the 1960s. I

56:45

remember the shock on her face, and I couldn't

56:47

understand why. Years

56:50

later, my mother said she was somewhat taken

56:52

aback by my answer too, and

56:54

rather embarrassed at the time, but afterwards

56:56

found it hilarious. I have

56:58

no idea why I told everyone

57:01

I was Graham Dangerfield's daughter, but

57:03

I still have a deep interest in

57:05

nature and wildlife, very possibly

57:08

heavily influenced by him. Now,

57:11

look, Vicky, I've been in

57:13

touch with your mother, and

57:15

the reason that your mother was so shocked at

57:17

the time is she didn't know that

57:20

you knew about our lover. I'm

57:23

joking, of course. And that's just

57:25

me fantasising. I think it's

57:27

a most interesting memory indeed.

57:30

I think when I was small, I wanted to feel

57:32

that my father was Coco the Clown, and

57:35

I did meet Coco the Clown at

57:37

Earl's Court one year. Bertram Mill Circus

57:39

came and did a sort of show

57:41

at the Earl's Court Exhibition Centre, it

57:43

was turned into a circus ring, and

57:45

I remember meeting Coco the Clown and

57:47

looking up to him, and thinking, this

57:49

is my role model. I

57:51

don't think he was my father. But

57:53

if he had been, I'd fantastic. So

58:18

that's this week's Rosewood. Do

58:20

join us next time. It's fun being part of the Rosewood world. Oh, I think

58:22

so. Thank

58:30

you.