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You're going to be able to get tickets. But some

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We're also doing a few Roerhalsterper

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the Saturday the 22nd and Sunday the 23rd

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1:50

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the

1:52

Leicester Square Theatre. Please welcome a man who's

1:54

regretting killing himself for a part in Ghosts.

1:57

Here's Richard Herring. Here

2:05

we go.

2:07

You're much better than last week's audience. So thank

2:09

you very much for coming along.

2:12

I'd love to see you all. Thank you for coming. Welcome

2:15

to Richard Herring's Leicester Square Theatre podcast. I

2:17

was talking to Henry Mott Williams,

2:20

who of course you know is

2:22

the son of Indiana Jones from the popular fourth

2:24

instalment of

2:27

Indiana Jones, who, spoiler alert,

2:30

he's dead. He's

2:31

dead by the fifth

2:33

one. It's a bit like when Poochey goes

2:36

back to his own planet. Sort

2:38

of unnecessary. We're

2:41

not going to have him in it. He's going to

2:43

be, we're going to make sure he never appears

2:46

in anything ever again. He calls it Rallister,

2:48

so there we go. So yeah, not

2:50

much has happened to me this week, but I was, I

2:53

was on quite a good mood on I think

2:55

like Tuesday or Wednesday and I was just driving my car

2:57

somewhere and the phone rang. It was a number

2:59

in Manchester. It was, I thought I don't know, only

3:02

in Manchester and I answered the phone and

3:04

it was in a jolly mood and

3:06

the guy said, hello, it's, we understand

3:08

this is from the traffic world

3:11

conglomerate. I understand you've just

3:13

been in an accident and I went, I went,

3:16

go fuck yourself. I

3:19

absolutely lost it with this. I went, go fuck

3:21

yourself, fucking wank. Fuck

3:24

off. I got, I absolutely lost it with him. He

3:26

went, oh, he tried to, for a second, I

3:29

hadn't been in an accident, right? So I knew it wasn't

3:31

real. I knew it wasn't a

3:33

real thing. It was generally about as good as the company

3:35

name I just

3:36

made up there.

3:36

And for a second he tried to, oh,

3:39

it was so, why are you being so rude to me?

3:41

And I said, because you're a fucking

3:43

cunt. I

3:46

really laid into him and he hung up.

3:49

I had his number. I nearly rang him back to carry on and

3:53

I was like, then I felt kind of guilty about

3:55

being so rude because he's just doing this job of

3:58

trying to rip off vulnerable people. That's

4:01

right. It's not his fault though he has chosen

4:03

to do that job. I sort of wished I'd been a bit more

4:05

reasonable with him but it was kind of I was surprised

4:08

how quickly this anger came about.

4:10

Partly, my dad really, I went back to see my dad

4:12

a few and my mum and dad a few weeks and he's 80, nearly 87

4:16

years old and he'd had one of those emails

4:18

the way they go, oh DHL, DHL,

4:21

try to deliver a parcel to you please give 27

4:23

pence to this and he'd filled it all

4:25

in and sent it off and that to change all his bank

4:28

details. I think I might, maybe I was

4:29

channeling but it's amazing, we

4:32

just lose it. If he'd been in the car

4:34

he'd have been in trouble that guy. He ran

4:36

off scared. Don't come to me with your cons.

4:39

I'm not stupid like my dad. I

4:42

hardly ever, I hardly ever

4:45

yet. He's done very well my dad. He's

4:47

a very smart man so it's annoying. Look,

4:50

we have a fantastic guest for you

4:52

this week. She's probably best, you probably

4:54

saw it on Sunday brunch and you thought

4:57

wow she's an overnight success, how's she got

5:00

on Sunday brunch? What's

5:02

she done? Nothing else, she hasn't done anything

5:04

else, that's all she's done. We're going to

5:06

talk to her exclusively about Sunday brunch

5:09

from last week. Will

5:10

you please welcome from Sunday brunch? It's

5:13

Bridget Christie, here she is. Sunday

5:15

brunch. You're

5:19

on Sunday brunch.

5:22

Sunday brunch.

5:23

Did you enjoy Sunday brunch? Do you know what,

5:25

I've done it twice and the first time

5:27

was for Taskmaster. Yeah. And

5:30

I thought oh I'll wear the the leave and

5:32

clear, I'll wear that outfit. And then

5:34

I thought I would just be, you know, and then people

5:36

were really confused and freaked out by it and

5:39

then it ended up in the Express like

5:42

loads of like tabloid newspapers like

5:44

who

5:45

and people thought that they were

5:47

doing like a funeral section on the show or

5:49

something but I didn't look like I was,

5:52

who wears a leave and clear outfit

5:54

to a funeral?

5:54

Somebody very cool. Me.

5:58

Yeah. Oh

6:00

yeah, and then what's his name?

6:02

Tim? Tim Lovejoy? Yeah,

6:05

when I was on the sofa they said, oh, get

6:07

up and give us a twirl or something. I was

6:09

like, I don't think I'll... Did

6:12

they? I'm 50 years old, mate. I'm gonna stand

6:15

up and give you a fucking twirl. Do

6:17

you know what I mean? And

6:19

then I

6:19

went... All the people you'd ask to give a twirl as well,

6:21

Richard. Yes, he's obviously seen none of my

6:24

work. Goodness. Can

6:26

you give us a twirl here? Did

6:29

you give me a twirl? No,

6:31

and I did it on Sunday. And

6:35

they didn't ask me to do

6:37

a twirl, because I just wore

6:39

a normal outfit. Do

6:43

you think maybe he just wanted a chocolate

6:45

bar, the twirl, to say, could you give

6:47

me that? Was there a twirl? And

6:49

you just misunderstood and you think Tim Lovejoy's

6:52

very sexist, but he actually just really

6:54

loves... He wanted some chocolate. So

6:57

nice, the twirls are nice.

6:59

Yes. Could be that. I don't eat

7:01

chocolate anymore. No, I... Well, I've tried to

7:03

give up... Vegan chocolate. I tried to give up, but

7:05

I've really massively failed. And

7:08

I was doing quite well, and then I was

7:10

just like, I can't stop eating.

7:13

Like, I know a lot of people in Chobis have drug

7:15

problems and take cocaine and heroin. They don't,

7:17

come on, they don't. A lot of people do. They

7:19

don't. Or alcohol and drugs. No,

7:21

that was like the 60s. Where are you? Like, you don't

7:24

know any... Well, I... You don't know any

7:26

young people in show business. I don't know any young

7:28

people. Young people in show business, they're so

7:30

helped. Like, they all go to the gym and you

7:33

know the one... Ah, God,

7:36

Manifolds. You know the comedian. I

7:38

need more information than the other one. You know,

7:40

he got caught wanking

7:42

or something. Oh, Ed Gamble.

7:45

No. He

7:47

should have done. He got away with it. Joel...

7:50

Joel Dominguez. Yes. Like,

7:52

he's not eating. No. He's

7:54

not eating because he's wanking on an internet knee. He's spending all his

7:56

time. He hasn't got time to eat. Take

7:59

drugs. He's all wanking. on the internet and returning

8:01

that into a successful career. I

8:03

could have done that, I could have wanked on the internet.

8:06

Why am I presenting the masked singer? I've wanked on

8:08

the internet loads

8:08

of times. On

8:11

the internet? You're like, oh what does that

8:13

mean? Anyway. What

8:16

was I going to say? What were we talking about? It

8:18

doesn't matter. Someday brunch. You went to

8:20

a Sunday brunch. I'm addicted to giant

8:23

chocolate buttons, that's what I... So that's my...

8:25

So if the kids have an open pack of giant

8:27

chocolate buttons in the drawer, I've

8:29

got ages I could resist them and now I can't

8:31

resist them and I just think... What drawer?

8:34

There's a kids' suite drawer in our kitchen.

8:36

That's a disaster. Yeah. Is it locked? And

8:38

I go, no. Well

8:41

you're just going to, every night,

8:43

when you're drinking and sad, you're just

8:45

going to go to the... I don't drink, I've stopped drinking.

8:48

What? I haven't had a drink for two and a half

8:50

years. You're joking. I'm not. So I can stop

8:52

drinking alcohol but I can't stop eating. So

8:54

why did you say that everyone in show business

8:56

is getting crazy? I'm saying I've got

8:58

an embarrassing addiction which is chocolate buttons.

9:01

Not just little ones but they have to be the big ones. I'm

9:04

not a baby.

9:07

The kids haven't been in the house all

9:09

the time. Yeah, you're a man, you have big buttons.

9:14

The biggest... I'll go, yeah. I will take you down.

9:16

A kid couldn't even get that in their mouth. That's

9:20

how many people I have. I'm the rock. I have slightly

9:22

larger buttons than a weak man

9:25

would. So that's great. You've

9:27

given up chocolate though.

9:28

I haven't given up chocolate but I eat vegan

9:31

chocolate. The best one is vego. My

9:34

son's lactose intolerant so there's

9:37

vegan chocolate in the house. Luckily I don't

9:39

feel I need to eat. I

9:42

tried to be a bit of a good one but I'm not going to get addicted

9:44

to that. What

9:45

are your favourite buttons then? I like

9:47

campberries, campberries, and chocolates.

9:50

Do you know about dairy farming? I do.

9:53

I mean I

9:55

knew you'd turn it into a polemic event.

9:58

I knew just some fun would be...

9:59

stamped on eventually.

10:01

The most sexist food that you

10:03

can eat is cheese. Yeah.

10:06

Because cows are pretty

10:09

much... No, this is... Shall I not? It's too early.

10:11

They're putting things called... No, it's going

10:13

to go wrong in it. I've stopped, I've stopped. Rape racks, that's what they're putting.

10:16

When you're sucking on your buttons, you

10:18

can think, this cat was... This

10:20

cow was artificially inseminated by

10:22

a farmer who probably looks

10:25

like Jeremy... What's his name? Clarkson.

10:27

Jeremy Beadle. Clarkson.

10:30

Yeah. It

10:33

must be difficult to milk him, that's what I was like.

10:39

He's got a little hand. A

10:41

short... Jeremy Clarkson, so that

10:43

you can have some buttons. I

10:45

don't enjoy the milk bit, I only like the chocolate

10:48

bit. Is that all right? I

10:52

have stopped, I have oat milk, and

10:54

I've stopped drinking it.

10:55

It doesn't make any fucking difference. That

10:57

does make some difference, because there's a lot of milk in

10:59

milk. When you're drinking... When

11:01

you're drinking milk, that's all

11:03

milk. So

11:06

if that's... Whenever I have a coffee

11:08

or, like, a porridge,

11:10

that's a big quantity of milk, rather than, oh, sorry

11:12

for the little drop of milk I've

11:15

eaten in this pack of... I am sorry.

11:17

So large quantities of milk

11:19

you would have... You would have

11:21

a... It's a little bit, it's fine. Just

11:23

go... But just... If

11:25

you suck it out of the tea... Last

11:29

time I was on, we talked about when I used

11:31

to milk, and it was... Yes, we did, don't

11:33

we? And we've discovered

11:36

that it was eight years ago. Yeah, it was eight years, almost

11:38

the day since you were last on. It's

11:40

just absolutely incredible.

11:42

It doesn't seem like... You seem

11:44

younger, you seem to have come backwards,

11:47

because I definitely... I've got photographic

11:49

evidence, I don't look as good as I did

11:51

eight years ago. It goes up and down for me. I haven't studied...

11:54

Well, I... Sometimes I look good... Like

11:56

two years ago, I look better than I did eight years ago, but

11:59

now I look worse than I did eight years ago.

11:59

two years ago and i guess if

12:02

you've been looking at yourself a lot and i

12:04

had wire when

12:06

you when can on the internet is a little bit of

12:09

little bit reviewing what you're looking at your school

12:14

i think iran is it to answer some of the the because

12:18

i've got some numbers on fifty second nearly

12:20

fifty six fifty

12:22

six not as he gets his you to you've got

12:24

lots of your own two

12:28

and a beard

12:29

of a bit

12:33

of got hair growing in places that shouldn't grow

12:35

where's that growing on by

12:38

when your team that's not

12:44

nice started

12:46

growing one

12:51

i'm most of my choice hello the

12:54

like up in exchange rate and central

12:56

my bigger

12:57

oh is trying to hide it sound

13:03

bum people on the internet won't have any

13:05

i think guess you get to like you're not meant

13:07

to live this long a euro is a human being

13:09

you whoa whoa whoa hey we

13:12

went to the on though in the wild will be dead

13:14

by now

13:14

roll it was public health my stool that up

13:17

because we got really good it soon stay their lives

13:19

of the body or the you know going to get to thirty and than

13:21

we do you like so

13:23

after thirty goes on and no need

13:25

a little bit why run you could start running

13:27

i do run a d yeah that does it

13:30

does look two years ago run around

13:32

half marathon six months after having comes

13:34

i'm an amazing guy is yeah

13:38

like so

13:41

let me have a little bit of milk to make

13:43

i only

13:45

have one testicle com

13:47

built myself with the way i used

13:49

to

13:52

you know they shackle their back legs together

13:55

for a does is so have the is

13:57

your one testicle have that

13:59

what The one that went was... Would you shut up?

14:02

Anyway, love to see you. None of that will make it in. It's

14:04

so lovely to be here. It's really... You are genuinely...

14:07

I don't think I've seen many... We did discuss this backstage. I

14:09

haven't seen your last couple of shows maybe. Good

14:11

grief. It can't be true. Because I came

14:13

to all your early brilliant shows where you were crazy, which I'm sure

14:16

we talked about last time. We did The Great Fry of

14:18

London and You're an Ant. And you were a great

14:20

friend. And you were a great friend.

14:24

And you were a great friend. And

14:26

you were an ant. And you... All those things. All

14:29

the characters. All the characters. King

14:31

Charles. Oliver Cromwell. Yeah, all

14:33

that stuff. The plague. How could you

14:35

forget the plague? I didn't forget it. So I've seen

14:37

all the right through. So I've seen

14:39

everything. So we will come and see your

14:41

current show. That's very... I wonder if we might

14:43

be in the same venue in the... Is it yours in the

14:45

autumn, is it? My tour? Yeah.

14:49

Yeah. We probably are gonna be in some of the same. Might

14:52

be in the same... Then we can do it. Might

14:54

be in the same... Then we could, you know... Yeah. We

14:57

could see each other's shows. We could do. Yeah.

15:00

Well, it's not gonna happen. No. We'll be

15:02

doing our own shows. It might be. It might be.

15:05

I'm not gonna be in Edinburgh. This podcast is

15:07

going out during the Edinburgh Fringe. This is the Edinburgh Fringe podcast. So

15:10

you're taking this show to Edinburgh. It's... You've

15:12

been doing it for a... Because it's a pre-COVID

15:14

show, right?

15:15

It was locked out. Yeah. And

15:17

then we had COVID and then

15:20

everything was sort of pushed and

15:22

moved. And then I was filming and yeah. But

15:25

actually, I think it's worked out well because

15:27

it will be coming... Well, it is. It's...

15:31

You know, when I was filming the change,

15:33

I didn't know when it was gonna be broadcast. Right. So

15:35

we just had to put the tour in because you

15:37

can't sort of wait around for, you know, what it's like. I

15:39

do. But that's... You're

15:41

very busy. I've just watched the whole of the

15:44

change. Thank you very much. It's all there on

15:46

Channel 4 Player, whatever that's called. All four.

15:49

Is that what it's called, then? I think so. I

15:52

think it's just called Channel 4, isn't it? It's on

15:54

Channel 4, but if you want to get a sneaky peek

15:56

ahead, by the time this goes out, I think it'll all

15:59

be up there anyway. Oh, yeah.

15:59

It'll all have been on TV anyway, but yeah, so

16:02

you can watch the whole thing in a weekend if you want Which is what

16:04

me and Katie did. That's very that's very kind.

16:06

Thank you. Um, you know, but

16:09

Yeah, I when it started I just thought no not

16:11

another sitcom about the bloody

16:13

eel festival No,

16:19

I want this again But

16:22

you know you found you found a new way of doing that idea I

16:28

Think of anything I like I loved it I think if anything

16:30

there's too much stuff in there for

16:32

a six-part

16:33

series There's a lot packed into it,

16:36

right because you don't know what's gonna happen And

16:38

so, you know you hope that you'll

16:40

get to go again and then you can pay

16:42

everything off But I think that I

16:45

wanted to plant a lot of seeds that

16:47

I could then develop Yeah, you know and also

16:49

you think you know, I'm

16:51

God I've been You

16:54

know

16:55

This is my first TV thing and

16:57

I'm and I'm 51 and it might be the last

16:59

one And I just think that I've been

17:02

probably working my whole professional

17:04

life towards this and it might not

17:06

happen again So I need to kind

17:08

of put everything in it. Yeah within

17:11

reason yes, and

17:15

You know you you want to give yourself

17:17

somewhere to go so I did I did want

17:19

to sort of Talk about things that I

17:21

then yeah, but you just because you just don't

17:24

know

17:24

you don't know but it's not a bad thing It's

17:26

I've just read Stephen Wright's novel

17:29

the comedian the comedian not

17:31

the

17:32

the DJ or the serial killer It's

17:36

so many it's so packed with stuff

17:38

it's like it's so dense with stuff Yeah,

17:40

but it's so enjoyable as a result of that because there's

17:42

so many ideas in it But I think that there's a lot

17:44

of I and you know It says it's built as being

17:46

about the menopause But it's about a lot more than the

17:49

menopause and there's a lot and I know that's a

17:51

theme running through it But it's not it is but

17:53

I will say this as well is that

17:55

you you can watch it twice if

17:57

you Getting a bit lost. Yeah, I was

17:59

lost I wasn't lost, it's just there's a lot

18:01

of things. There's a lot

18:03

of, because it's about the environment, it's about

18:06

just childhood. Community, like

18:08

mortality, everything, you know.

18:11

But that's what I really wanted to do. I mean, I

18:13

just, I really enjoy the writing process

18:16

and

18:17

I really did want to talk about a lot of different

18:19

things. And also you think,

18:23

you know, I wanted it to be kind

18:25

of relatable and ordinary,

18:27

but to also be extraordinary, because I

18:29

think that, I

18:32

kind of almost wrote it like a film that's been split

18:34

up into

18:34

six sections. So like, often

18:37

you'll have like episodic plot points

18:39

and things like that, then you'll have a whole, like

18:41

narrative arc for the whole series. But

18:43

I was just like, oh, I'm going there.

18:46

I'm going there, and

18:48

this is me getting there, and I've got to chop it

18:50

up. So,

18:53

you know, and I didn't want, you know,

18:56

you have that thing in sitcom writing where you

18:58

have to end up in the same place. Well,

19:01

I think that it's high time we didn't

19:03

do that. And I didn't want that

19:05

central character to end up in the same place. I wanted

19:08

her to evolve and change her life. And

19:11

like you say, you know, there's a lot of things in there, but

19:14

there's a lot of things in life, you know. And

19:16

I kind of just thought, well, you

19:19

know, I want to speak to lots of people. I'd

19:21

like a lot of people to watch it and

19:23

to feel that it was maybe

19:25

about them and their lives. So, you

19:27

know, and it's the first thing I've written as well.

19:29

Yeah, I mean, it's kind of crazy,

19:31

you know, because you came

19:33

to prominence like 15, 20 years ago, maybe,

19:36

I mean, 10, 15 years ago, right, since

19:39

you won the Comedy Award. But that is 10

19:41

years ago. It's a long time

19:43

since, that's a long time to not... Have

19:45

anything commissioned. For

19:48

people to not know who I am. It's

19:50

really difficult to get things commissioned. Believe me, I

19:52

know how difficult. It's really hard. You know, I've

19:54

written script after script and script and occasionally get a taste

19:57

of tape. So to get something on TV is amazing in

19:59

itself. To get something... that's so, it's just really

20:01

you. It's fantastic. Nobody else

20:03

could do your stand up, I

20:06

don't think, and no, which is the mark of a

20:08

good stand up to me, and nobody

20:10

else could have come anywhere near

20:12

writing this. It's a comedy

20:15

drama as well, rather than a sitcom, I would say.

20:17

It's a comedy drama, yeah, very,

20:19

it's got a different rhythm to it. I think with sitcom,

20:23

it's quite,

20:25

you know, the pacing is just really different, and

20:27

the writing is really different, but

20:29

it's absolutely a comedy drama,

20:31

but I don't know, I just, I

20:35

have to say that my producers and Channel 4,

20:38

when you say nobody could have written

20:40

that, I'm gonna say something,

20:42

right? And I'm gonna say this. When

20:45

somebody believes in you, as my

20:48

producers did, and Channel 4 did,

20:51

I genuinely think that writing this show

20:53

has changed my life, and it's changed me,

20:56

because they didn't want me or the

20:58

show to be anything other than what

21:02

I am, and they wanted my voice, and they

21:04

didn't want anything watered down, and they

21:06

really believed in me, and they really said, what

21:08

do you wanna do, and how do you wanna do it, and how can we

21:11

support you? And it just made me feel

21:13

really confident, and it made

21:15

me, because you know what it's like,

21:18

especially, well, in life anyway, but

21:20

just in this business, is

21:22

we're constantly told, you

21:25

know, because we have to make things work, and we have

21:27

to adapt ourselves, and I didn't

21:30

have to do that with this. I could really be

21:33

who I was, and write it my way,

21:35

and I have been told in

21:37

the past, and in my life, you

21:39

know, I think when I started doing stand-up,

21:42

I really, honestly, genuinely felt like

21:44

I'd found my tribe, and it was all the people who

21:46

were on the outsides of

21:49

groups, and at school, they were on

21:51

their own a lot, and I felt like

21:53

when I started doing stand-up, that I'd met loads

21:56

of people like me, and that

21:58

was really good for me, process

22:00

of writing this show where I had business

22:02

people saying we want your voice

22:05

and we want you to do it your way. That

22:07

gave me so much confidence and made

22:09

me feel much better about myself. Where

22:12

maybe if you're an actor who's just

22:14

waiting to be picked, that's why I went into

22:16

stand-up because I went to drama school and

22:18

then I never got any... The first

22:21

proper part I got was in Ghosts.

22:25

And that was four lines and that was just

22:27

my friends casting me in it. And

22:30

this Linda is my first proper part

22:32

and I had to write it and cast myself in

22:36

it and I'm 51. And it's just I think

22:38

you have to stick to your guns sometimes and

22:40

keep going. I think that's all that's happened.

22:43

I know that I'm really lucky and I'm

22:45

in a really privileged position but I also

22:47

think there's really something to be said

22:49

for never giving up and never compromising

22:52

and just staying true to yourself. And

22:54

I could have done a lot of things that came

22:57

in sort of 10 years ago after a bit for her

22:59

but A, I didn't think I had the right skill

23:01

set to do them or B, I didn't really like

23:04

them or I felt that I would be

23:06

out of place doing those things and so I wouldn't

23:08

do them well and so I didn't do them. And

23:13

I'll never know that if I did them or not I would

23:15

have been commissioned earlier. Maybe

23:17

I wouldn't have got this commission. I just

23:19

don't know. But Channel 4 and

23:22

my producers, Nerris Evans and Moenna

23:24

Gordon, they were like, say what you

23:26

want to say and

23:27

then we'll try and get that made. So like

23:29

you saying nobody else could have made this, that's

23:32

because some people believed

23:34

in me and that can be

23:37

very nurturing and rewarding.

23:41

Well it's great and that's how you make interesting

23:43

TV. I think that whatever you think of this you

23:46

couldn't

23:47

argue that it's like individual. I'm

23:51

not sure it's going to be for everyone. I don't think it's

23:53

like Terry and June. No offence. No

23:56

offence.

23:58

Well I am offended. But

24:01

it's very much... It starts off being Terry and Gene. I suppose

24:03

it does. If Terry was catching

24:05

sausages in his mouth. Omelette

24:09

is very funny. Well, you've got great people

24:11

in it. Well, the thing I was

24:13

interested in as well was, I mean, the

24:16

idea of your

24:18

character is noting

24:20

down all the stuff she's doing in the

24:22

house that her husband doesn't do any housework.

24:25

And she notes down everything she does. Now,

24:27

I think most couples will identify that,

24:30

even if they're doing the same amount

24:32

as work as each other. I think,

24:35

my wife thinks I don't do as much as she does,

24:37

but I do more than she does. And

24:39

what I want to do is invent an app,

24:42

like a chess clock, that

24:44

you both have on your phone and then it says shows.

24:47

Because I always get up

24:48

like... I think CCTV is better. I do,

24:50

so... Writing in books is

24:52

fine, but you can't, if you actually have

24:55

the cold hard facts there straight, you go, look,

24:57

I did four hours of childcare. Well, I

24:59

think you would regret that. Do you? I don't think

25:01

I would.

25:01

I think there's things, this is the argument.

25:03

Okay, so all of my girlfriends that I talked

25:06

to when I was writing this up and the pilot,

25:09

what it was was, this show is about time,

25:12

right? And it's about mortality and it's

25:14

about who we think we are. It's about

25:17

identity, it's about the loss of the self.

25:19

It's about

25:21

like self discovery, self love, all

25:23

these things. And Linda

25:25

originally wasn't going to take that time

25:27

back. It was just, she realised

25:29

that she was doing the stuff that nobody saw and

25:31

nobody thanked her for and so she just started jotting

25:34

it. That's me. Jotting it. That's

25:37

me. You do lots of me. I do loads of

25:39

stuff. You do loads of stuff that nobody sees.

25:41

How do you feel about that? I feel all right about

25:43

it, because I'm an old man now. I

25:46

think because I didn't get married until I was

25:48

like in my mid-40s. If I

25:50

hadn't, if I was on Magilliary in your sitcom,

25:53

I would be dead. He

25:55

doesn't know where the cheese grater is. I

25:58

knew where the cheese grater was from day one.

25:59

So I had to look after myself

26:02

for a long time. Yes, but not...

26:04

I'm going to say there are going to be anomalies,

26:06

right? And this is like, you

26:09

know, all the characters in

26:11

the show are like invent... They're all like

26:14

different bits of... None of them exist. Like

26:16

I remember... Because like Lisa Tarpek is brilliant as my

26:18

sister and I've got five lovely

26:20

sisters and people... And someone said to me,

26:23

oh my God, my sister's like that as well. And I was

26:25

like, no,

26:25

no, no, no, no. Like,

26:28

I don't know. All the characters are invented.

26:31

But it was so funny because Omid, on

26:33

the first day of filming, he came in and

26:35

he said, I've had to do no prep

26:37

for this.

26:39

But he was so

26:42

funny. Yeah, so it's that... And

26:44

in Lockdown, so basically this show started

26:47

about seven years ago with the original script

26:50

commission. And it was very different, like,

26:52

because Linda wasn't in

26:54

even the Perriman applause at that point. But

26:57

it was about a woman who had... Her life

26:59

hadn't panned out as she'd hoped. She'd

27:02

had lots of dreams for herself that had not... I

27:04

mean, that's most people's reality, right?

27:06

Yeah. I mean, look, I sat here. I would

27:09

never have believed, Rich, when

27:11

I was eight that I would be sat looking...

27:12

LAUGHTER Talking

27:17

about chocolate buttons. What

27:19

was I going to say?

27:22

Yes, most people's lives, and I can imagine

27:24

that that would have been my reality as well.

27:27

And, you know, we all have dreams and

27:29

then life takes over and it doesn't

27:31

happen, right? We can all identify

27:33

with that. Look

27:35

at me when you point at me and say,

27:38

yeah, all right, it didn't happen, Rich. It

27:41

didn't happen.

27:42

It absolutely did happen. But

27:47

so then it was a really good thing that it had such

27:49

a long... It took so

27:51

long to make because two things happened,

27:54

well, three things happened. One

27:56

was that I became perimenopausal and

27:58

then menopausal and then...

27:59

COVID happened,

28:01

which put us all into lockdown. And those things

28:03

really shaped the show for the better.

28:05

And it wouldn't have been the show that it is. So

28:08

I always wanted to set it in the Forest of Dean, which

28:10

is a place really like close to my heart

28:12

when there was a child, it's like my childhood,

28:14

Idil. So I wanted to really showcase that.

28:17

But actually lockdown really reminded

28:19

me of how amazing

28:21

this country was, how like rich in culture

28:24

and how beautiful it was, because we were all stuck here.

28:26

We were talking about Sutton Hoo earlier.

28:29

And there was two things that came out in lockdown.

28:31

One was the dig, the film. And

28:34

one was Paul and Bob's fishing

28:36

program, which I think is edited and shot really

28:38

beautifully. And it was like, God, look at this country

28:41

and look at our rivers and look at all this stuff. So

28:43

I really wanted to show that in

28:45

this program. And also I became

28:47

menopausal. So the character really

28:50

evolved that way. And I'm really glad, because

28:52

I'm not sure if seven years ago, if

28:55

Linda was menopausal, it would have

28:57

been,

28:58

I just don't know. People are saying,

29:00

how did you get a show

29:01

about the menopause commissioned?

29:04

I didn't, it wasn't about the menopause and

29:06

I've tricked

29:06

them into it. Well, that

29:08

once they've commissioned, you can do what you want. So

29:10

it is sort of a weird thing. If you can get through

29:13

those many, many stages

29:15

and do your taste of the tape, and then you can do what

29:17

you want when you, I mean, I'm jealous, because

29:20

I've been trying to get like West Country

29:23

sitcoms and comedy dramas off the ground

29:26

for years and years.

29:28

And now you come along and Jade Adams has done a

29:30

West Country sitcom as well. So, you know,

29:32

that's. I think it's not about where it's

29:34

settled. It is. It's the idea,

29:36

Rich. It is, they won't. If I went in now with my,

29:39

I've got, well, it's sort of simply, I

29:41

wanted to do a common drama about Roland

29:43

Pavey, who's a guy in the 19th century who,

29:47

who brought his own, someone's brought their

29:49

own guitar to heckle with. Someone

29:52

having a guitar lesson. While

29:55

I'm speaking. Yeah. I'm very

29:57

rude. But it's sort of a similar thing, because he

29:59

believed.

29:59

He believed we all have wings, invisible

30:03

wings, that when we're... So he was sort of spiritualist, he used

30:05

water-divining, and he tried to find a

30:07

cave in Cheddar Caves when all the caves were being discovered by

30:09

blowing a hole to try and find

30:11

a new cave, and in the end, he

30:13

just blew a big enough hole to open his

30:15

cave. So it was

30:18

just a cavern that he'd made with explosives. That

30:20

is a good story. It's a really good story. So

30:22

that sort of... It's sort of been a similar

30:25

thing to this. But

30:25

is he a white, middle-aged man? Um,

30:28

yeah, yeah. That's why it's not... Yeah,

30:31

that's why it's not... You can't do that anymore, can you? Now

30:33

it's all got to be... It's all got to be, uh, girls doing it now, isn't

30:35

it? That's it. That's

30:37

how it is now. It's flipped around.

30:40

That's the thing now.

30:41

They've got to be either dead or men of war

30:43

or... Um, I

30:46

don't know. I think... I think it is extraordinary,

30:48

because when we were sort of developing it and

30:51

talking to Channel 4 and everybody,

30:53

we were like, who is... Who

30:55

is Linda like? Like, what's the closest

30:58

story to this? And we were really trying to

31:00

think. And we were like, God, we

31:02

can't think of...

31:04

And the only character

31:06

that we could think of was Shirley Valentine, which was 1986 or

31:09

something like that, and

31:11

she was 42, and she

31:13

wasn't even menopausal. And

31:16

it was like, we can't, there must be.

31:18

And if you look at women sort of middle-aged

31:21

or older than 50, there's

31:23

no symptoms, like it's completely invisible

31:26

from their stories. And I'm not saying that

31:28

we have to see loads of menopausal

31:31

women all the time, but one in fucking 30

31:33

years. One at,

31:35

like, that's not too many,

31:36

is it? It is not too many. No, so it's... Or

31:39

just having some symptoms. There was,

31:41

you know, is it House Of Cards with Kevin

31:44

Spacey, isn't it, and Robin

31:46

Wright?

31:47

Yeah, I haven't seen it. No, there's one

31:49

scene in, like, three series where she

31:52

opens a fridge and goes... Like, opens

31:54

a fridge and goes like that, and I'm like, oh, and

31:56

then a woman walks into the kitchen, and I

31:58

was like, oh, they're going to have...

31:59

And then that was it, like, the

32:02

writers and the director was like, you can open a fridge,

32:04

you've got to shut it really quickly, and

32:06

you can't fucking talk about it. But

32:09

I just think, yeah, it's

32:11

kind of crazy that there's

32:13

not more than one. Yeah, it

32:15

is. Well, you know, but I feel like... But

32:18

like you say, it's not the...it just...Linda happens to

32:20

be menopausal, and she's

32:22

the female protagonist of this

32:24

story, but it's not...

32:26

I wouldn't say that it was a show about

32:28

the menop... That's where we need to get to.

32:30

We need to get to a point where there are

32:32

women who are older than 30

32:35

who do stuff. Like,

32:38

who are... APPLAUSE

32:41

Seriously, I...honestly,

32:43

the...like, I love

32:46

all people and there are some brilliant young

32:48

people, like, fantastic. But

32:51

there are such great women,

32:54

like, my age and not who are. The

32:56

top of their games, they're like the

32:59

most confident and wisest they've ever been. They've

33:01

got life experience. You know, where

33:03

are we? Like, why are we...why

33:06

don't we see us doing our stuff? What do you think it is? Why are we grannies?

33:09

Or why are we grannies? Yeah. Or

33:11

like, sad? Or like, mums?

33:13

Or why

33:15

can't we just be like humans having

33:17

adventures and doing stuff? And

33:19

a really interesting thing was, like,

33:22

I wanted Linda to get away from

33:24

that...the

33:25

house, so that she was,

33:27

like...

33:29

She was interacting as, like, a human

33:31

being. Like, she had children

33:34

and a husband and that's great. But

33:36

she had kind of...'cause she worked in a supermarket, she'd

33:38

kind of forgotten, lost who she was

33:41

and she never got that question. You

33:43

know, at her own 50th birthday party. And

33:46

I see this

33:47

at the family occasions where

33:50

older women don't get the question.

33:52

Like, there's a group of you and how

33:55

is school? Kids get asked how is school?

33:58

Like, men get asked how is work?

34:00

And then I've seen this and it breaks my

34:03

heart,

34:04

right? Older women don't

34:06

get that question and I want older women to

34:08

get that question. Like, assume

34:11

that she's doing something.

34:12

Ask her how she is. What is she

34:14

working on? What is she doing? Like,

34:16

how is she?

34:18

And I want to see that. Yeah,

34:20

it's not funny. That would just

34:22

have to be funny. It's fine because it's good. It's great.

34:25

But it needs somebody to go in. I

34:27

think it's partly because this

34:29

business has been so focused on

34:32

men, for sure, but then equally,

34:35

in the last ten years, it's

34:38

shifted a little bit. Mainly because of

34:40

me. That was a joke.

34:42

Nobody laughed. It shifted

34:44

a little bit. It cut that bit

34:46

out. There

34:49

aren't that many people who've been through

34:51

the ten years to get. Like you say,

34:53

it's taken you that time to get to where you're at. You

34:56

need to be in the business, first of all, to

34:58

get to the point where you can write this thing. And

35:00

not give up. Yeah, of course. And so it's very

35:02

easy to give up. It's very easy for anyone to give up. But

35:05

I absolutely 100% agree

35:07

with you. It's insane

35:09

that

35:11

you can't think of another example since Shirley Valentine

35:13

of anything. And it's not like Shirley Valentine.

35:16

No. But that is brilliant. It

35:20

is a credit. That was genius, that film. But

35:23

then I suppose Jerome Flynn's Alfred Molina,

35:26

a fifth. Oh, my God,

35:27

this is such an interesting... Because

35:30

the cast is unbelievable. I

35:32

didn't know this, OK. And I've told

35:34

him this so it doesn't matter. I saw

35:37

Jerome Flynn and John Wick 3 getting his

35:39

testicles bitten off by a dog. OK. Unsensitive.

35:42

I thought he did...

35:45

No, it's in the film. I don't know. We don't

35:47

have to bring it up. I'm so sorry.

35:54

I'm so sorry. It's all right. But... I

36:00

did it in such a funny way. Did he? That's

36:03

where, you know, people, that's, when was the last

36:05

drama about a man with one testicle and

36:08

his troubles with that?

36:09

Well... It's

36:14

just a comedy thing to John Wick,

36:16

isn't it? That a man gets his balls bit. Well,

36:18

I mean, I think they

36:20

may have, like, it kills him,

36:22

but I think they might, I think

36:24

they might be intact. I don't know, I didn't...

36:27

Okay, well,

36:27

I'll ask him through a series too. I'll

36:30

ask him, yeah. I'll talk you through with him. But,

36:32

so, and I thought, and then I saw him in John

36:35

Wick, and I was like, oh, that's, that guy, and he's really

36:37

good, and he's a really good insta... Because I haven't

36:39

seen Game of Thrones. But I thought, he's

36:41

got, there's something about him that is

36:43

really unique and different and special,

36:45

right? He's, that there's a depth

36:48

to him as an actor and whatever. So

36:50

I thought, oh, I've got

36:52

this character, Pigman, and he's this sad

36:54

character who has this tragic backstory,

36:57

and he lives in the woods on his own, and

37:00

all of this, and I think he'd be really good at it, and he's

37:02

called Pigman, and that's because of all these things.

37:05

So, a really amazing thing happened

37:07

with the show, which is that I had my top

37:09

list of actors, and then I thought we would

37:12

just start making our way down the list, you know,

37:14

so I'd end up with, you

37:16

know, maybe... Me. LAUGHTER

37:18

I'm just happy to make the list. I'm

37:20

happy to be right at the bottom

37:23

of the list. So, Jerome

37:25

Flynn was here, and then you were not that far

37:27

down, actually. And then... But

37:30

then we didn't have to, that's why you didn't get the call. But,

37:34

and then, so would you be this character,

37:36

Pigman?

37:38

Then we couldn't get hold of him, because he was off-grid, like,

37:40

he lives, you know, this... Anyway,

37:43

people said, you won't get him, doesn't do

37:45

many things, and I said, well, can we just ask

37:48

anyway? So they asked, and

37:50

he was like, oh, he's interested, because of the thing,

37:52

but he's slightly worried about the character's name,

37:54

which is Pigman, and stuff like that, and I was like, oh, fucking,

37:57

like... He's a

37:59

bit fussy, you know. Anyway, so then

38:01

I wrote him an email and said,

38:03

oh, this is why he's called Pigman.

38:05

This is his backstory, blah, blah, blah. And then he said, yes, he'd

38:07

do it. Then I looked

38:10

him up and he made

38:12

a film about pig farming, like

38:15

called Hogwood, a Modern Horror Story.

38:18

And he'd done all this activism

38:20

about pigs that I'd not

38:22

known about. And we have this like pig

38:24

skin that we were gonna get him to, well, we weren't,

38:27

you know. And I think it was Roadkill

38:30

anyway, like the pig skin. It wasn't like killed

38:32

for the show or anything like that. And

38:35

then that was a coincidence

38:37

that I'd asked him to be Pigman, not

38:39

knowing that he'd done all this work

38:42

for pigs.

38:43

Then the character- But he was

38:45

pro the pigs, right?

38:47

He loves pigs so much. Then

38:49

the character had given up his

38:52

quite affluent life. He

38:55

was like a city banker and he was really rich

38:57

and everything. But the only thing that he kept

38:59

from his old life was a milk frother. I

39:02

don't know if you've seen, but he's got his milk

39:04

frother in his cave that he froths up. And

39:07

the first time I spoke to Jerome, he said, oh, you

39:09

won't know this, but where I live in Wales,

39:13

I'm known as the frothy coffee guy. Wow.

39:15

And I was

39:17

like, well, I obviously didn't know that. And he was like,

39:19

no, but it's weird because of the pigs and the frothy

39:22

milk. So-

39:23

Did you ever go in about

39:25

chocolate buttons and the milk? Did you

39:28

say I hope that milks? He doesn't eat very chocolate.

39:30

That's good, that's good. I

39:33

was presenting Top of the Pops when Robson and Jerome

39:35

were number one. Really? Yeah.

39:39

So did you meet him? I don't know, sort of, I

39:41

don't, I wouldn't say we met up,

39:43

but he was- You introduced him. I

39:46

introduced him. My memory was they sang

39:48

the song and there was a lot of teenage

39:51

girls there screaming. It

39:53

was one of the most horrible things I've

39:55

ever experienced in my life. They smelled

39:57

really bad. Who smelled bad?

39:59

It was this horrible smell of teeth. What

40:02

do you mean they smelled burnt? There were all these overexcited

40:04

girls sweaty and they smelled... Why...

40:06

This is the worst person that you

40:08

could say, lots of girls smelled

40:10

horrible. Not... They were just because they were sweating. What do you mean?

40:13

They were all sweating and overexcited, and I just

40:15

would like to say that any of those top of the print

40:17

box presenters that managed to find that sexually

40:19

attractive, hats off to them for that,

40:21

because that was... Why were

40:23

they...? That was a difficult... OK, let's stop.

40:26

That was... Stop.

40:27

There's lots of things that are wrong with

40:29

this.

40:30

The first thing is horrible sweaty teenagers.

40:33

Hats off to Jimmy Savile is what I'm saying. The second

40:35

thing... Because how he

40:38

managed, I don't... was disgusting.

40:40

Well, none of this is going to make

40:41

it illegal, is it? So there's no

40:43

point in me calling out on all the terrible

40:46

points. Like, who is finding

40:49

them sexually? You've just pretty

40:51

much said that Robson and Jerome... Like, who...?

40:54

What I was going to say about Robson and Jerome, at

40:57

his point...

40:59

All these girls went crazy for Robson, and they

41:01

didn't. Whenever Robson sang, they went...

41:03

AHHH! And whenever... The other guy...

41:07

Robson and Jerome... Robson

41:09

Green? Yes. They

41:11

went nuts, Robson Green, and Jerome, nothing. And

41:13

there was a break in recording, and I went, Why

41:15

aren't you screaming for this guy? So

41:18

I asked him if he remembers me trying to stick... Now,

41:20

what's wrong with him? He's got a bit of

41:22

a funny nose. He's all right. So

41:25

they're screaming at Robson. They

41:27

loved Robson, they didn't like Jerome. I

41:29

think you're interpreting the silence completely. Yes!

41:35

Maybe they were listening. Shocked or... Maybe

41:38

they were trying to drown out Robson. Yeah,

41:40

maybe. And listen

41:42

to... It was poor. It was a poor...

41:46

Was it live? Yeah, well,

41:48

were they singing live? I think they probably were.

41:51

Were you speaking live? Oh, definitely. I was

41:53

not miming myself. I was definitely speaking

41:55

live. I think they probably did sing, but it was unchained

41:57

melody. It's a really

41:59

difficult song.

43:58

away. He

44:00

can come and stay, he can come and live.

44:02

There's nothing wrong with the guys and

44:05

Pigman is obviously a great guy, you

44:07

know, so they might appear that they've

44:11

got, you know, they're saying things

44:13

that are not quite,

44:15

you know, robust enough. But

44:18

you've got to be able to have fun. The

44:20

Eel women say, and Lisa

44:23

Tarbuck says...

44:25

They're very good, they're

44:27

all very funny characters. They're very good characters.

44:30

It's sort of, you know, it feels like... I don't

44:33

know, it's hard to... It is really hard to... The

44:36

tone of it is like Twin Peaks or

44:38

Northern Exposure or something like that.

44:39

Well, Northern Exposure was a big influence, as

44:41

was Detectoris and

44:45

Deer Hunter and Deliverance.

44:46

Deliverance! And

44:49

Shirley Valentine. They all

44:51

led into the kind of

44:53

tone of it. But actually a really interesting

44:55

thing is that I'm from

44:57

Gloucester and I love

44:59

the Forest of Dick. Like, I love it with all my

45:01

heart. And I remember when I was writing the

45:03

really, really early drafts of the script, I

45:05

had some notes back saying, it's just not

45:08

realistic. And I was like,

45:09

no, you need to go to the... Like, these

45:12

people are real. Like, I think

45:14

there was a worry that they were,

45:16

you know, it was really important to me

45:19

to... Basically what I was saying was that people

45:21

who live in rural communities, like, they've got

45:23

it sorted, you know, they look after each

45:25

other and they believe in things. And I think

45:27

that, you know, people... I live in

45:30

a city and I think we've kind of forgotten loads

45:32

of things that are really important. We don't really

45:34

know where our food or our clothes come from. We

45:36

don't have that sense of community that people

45:39

who live, like, in the country have. We're not

45:41

really in touch with the seasons or the weather, things

45:43

like that. We don't chuck eels into the air.

45:46

We don't make things out of wheat.

45:51

You know, so it's an affectionate look at rural

45:54

communities and the celebration

45:56

of them and of working class. I

45:58

always like... Something

46:00

that bothered me was, A, in a

46:02

lot of comedy dramas, like people are always really

46:05

rich,

46:06

but they don't seem to work, but they've got massive

46:09

houses.

46:10

And also working class people

46:12

are often portrayed as either heroin addicts

46:15

or just not very

46:17

bright, and that's not my reality at all.

46:20

That is just not the case. And so

46:22

I kind of wanted to

46:24

redress that a little bit.

46:27

You didn't ask me about that. I didn't, but it's

46:29

good. It's definitely

46:31

everyone should get to all four or

46:33

watch it on channel four and

46:35

watch it. It's a terrific thing

46:37

to have achieved this.

46:39

I know you're very

46:41

proud of it and rightly so.

46:47

This has been an awesome

46:49

day. Hello, can you hear me? Podcast

46:53

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47:14

Let's talk about Taskmaster,

47:18

which you were

47:19

incredible on Taskmaster. What? I

47:22

don't think I was. You were, I mean, look, I think like,

47:25

I look at you on Taskmaster, that's the way

47:27

to, you know, I, because

47:29

I mean, Bridget,

47:33

don't get me wrong. I won Taskmaster and I won

47:35

Taskmaster champion of champions. Obviously,

47:38

but I

47:42

would say, well,

47:46

I would say it's probably had a negative

47:48

impact on my popularity.

47:52

So a lot of people say I did Taskmaster and then suddenly

47:54

I was selling lots

47:55

of tickets. I did Taskmaster now no one

47:57

wants to see me, but at least. It's getting briefer.

47:59

At least. I won. No, that

48:01

is a massive achievement and you

48:04

must have somehow got Greg to

48:06

like you as well. He can be

48:08

very like,

48:09

he can just do what he wants. But you had it,

48:11

I mean it's not, I almost want to say

48:13

it's a sexual relationship with Greg, but it wasn't. It

48:15

was like, it was like a primeval

48:18

nonce, it was like there were bits where

48:20

you two turned into wild animals

48:23

strutting around each other like stags. Turned

48:25

into one animal. You climb wild animals. A wild

48:27

animal. There was a bit

48:30

where you were you were saying stop cock and

48:32

he was prancing around and you started climbing

48:34

on him and it was it was

48:36

beyond sexual.

48:40

What is beyond sexual? I

48:42

don't know whatever that was, whatever happened between

48:44

you and Greg was like something deep.

48:47

That was like, that should be in the forest of Dean.

48:49

Matt, what was going on there? I

48:51

think that you

48:53

should just mix things up. If

48:57

you can climb up on a big throne

48:59

then you should. I don't

49:02

know, I'm going to tell you about my taskmaster

49:05

experience. That offer came in

49:07

in lockdown and when,

49:10

as you were talking about

49:12

the Fosters thing 10 years ago, so

49:14

what I did when that happened was I just

49:17

kept my head down and I

49:19

wrote another show and I just I was

49:21

like I'm

49:22

not really, I'm still finding my voice, I just

49:25

want to you know, I love my job

49:27

and stuff like that. So things did

49:29

come in like tv things and

49:31

I thought

49:32

I'm not going to be

49:34

probably very good at that.

49:37

This came in at a point where I wasn't

49:39

earning any money so that

49:41

was a consideration. Then

49:44

I think Taskmaster is genuinely different

49:46

from everything else and like I was

49:48

saying about Channel 4 and my producers who were like,

49:51

we want you to write in

49:53

your voice and things like that. Taskmaster

49:56

wants you to also do that and

49:58

I think that is

50:02

why it's so successful. I think

50:05

TV, like, successful, it's like

50:07

alchemy, like, you never know how it's going to land

50:09

until it's on. You can have the

50:11

best scripts, you can have the best people, and then

50:13

something goes wrong or something doesn't, it

50:16

just doesn't gel. It's a really hard thing to

50:19

do. And now that I've done, written

50:21

a TV show, I look at other TV shows and I really

50:24

respect everyone who's done it, because it's

50:27

just one thing can not work, and

50:29

that's it. And it's devastating

50:31

because it's so hard to get something commissioned,

50:34

and then you write it, and then you film it, and then you

50:36

edit it, and then for whatever reason it

50:38

doesn't, people don't go

50:41

for it. And that's really sad and depressing.

50:43

Taskmaster is absolutely brilliant.

50:46

And like you were saying about ghosts, you

50:48

can watch it with your kids, you can watch it with

50:50

your grandparents, it's brilliant, and they

50:52

want you, right?

50:54

So it came in and I thought, alright, that's quite

50:57

a good fee, I'll do that. And

51:01

then I thought I would

51:03

just really have fun with it, and

51:07

climb on Greg's chair if the opportunity

51:09

arose. But they're very good,

51:11

and they're very different.

51:13

And I think that,

51:16

you know, with stand-up, if you're,

51:20

I think people can tell

51:22

if you're not

51:23

genuine or yourself a little bit,

51:26

and I think that makes them feel a bit uncomfortable,

51:29

or even though we say, like, my material

51:31

in stand-up is not, there will

51:34

be like a grain of truth,

51:37

and then it's embellished and changed, and then,

51:39

you know, how can I make this one anecdote,

51:41

how can I change this thing that's happened to me, and

51:44

make it about a wider issue, or what

51:46

does that mean for the world or other people,

51:48

do you know what I mean? This happened to me when I

51:51

was with my cat

51:53

sort of thing, but what does that mean?

51:55

It can't just be that my

51:58

cat ate some floss and it was coming out of his head.

51:59

like

52:02

what does that is can I make that

52:04

about Brexit you know

52:07

I mean what what can I do with that yeah

52:09

and I think with I think with Taskmaster

52:12

it's just you know you got to

52:14

just be free and do

52:16

and have confidence in failing

52:18

I think failing is so important in

52:20

life I think we learn so much

52:22

from it and like like be

52:25

be who you are and fail

52:27

on your own terms like show the

52:29

world yourself like this is what

52:31

I think now at 51 and I wish my 21

52:34

year old self had known this is like but

52:36

we don't know this do we we just

52:38

hide ourselves constantly and we try and

52:41

be something else that we're not and then that

52:44

that makes us angry and sad and upset because

52:46

we're not but you know I'm flawed

52:49

you know you're very flawed

52:54

we all are and like Taskmaster was

52:56

the first job I think I did where

52:58

I was like

52:59

just don't be afraid to

53:02

look stupid and say

53:04

stuff and

53:05

so what if people say that you're

53:08

stupid and mad and don't

53:10

know anything does it really matter it

53:12

probably doesn't

53:13

it doesn't matter and it was you know again because

53:15

you were yourself I mean that you know there's like

53:17

so many bit version of my so what yeah

53:20

but I mean the big way you're doing the water you try

53:22

to do the pedometer in your walk

53:24

it literally didn't work it didn't work

53:27

if you walk

53:31

like

53:33

when I did that when

53:36

I walked normally it didn't change

53:38

it only changed when I did that

53:42

and people thought I was trying to be funny I wasn't

53:44

I was trying to make the pedometer work

53:46

but

53:49

everyone should do that show they should but

53:51

it's an extraordinary thing to be thrown into something and know

53:53

you have no idea you know like yeah

53:56

you don't know any clue what's coming up sometimes

53:59

just face

55:59

And then it would have cost,

56:02

it would have blown the whole series budget

56:04

to get a real eel.

56:06

Animals are so expensive aren't they? Ten horses and

56:08

one eel. I was like, can we just get

56:10

a fucking horse to swim underneath? And

56:14

yeah, so I couldn't have an eel swim

56:16

past me but... No. But let's talk about

56:18

ghosts. Ghosts. It's

56:20

a very memorable, you were saying backstage that you

56:23

couldn't believe anyone would remember you in it. But I think

56:25

it's a very pivotal and memorable character.

56:29

I think, you know, I've

56:31

seen the show a lot because I've watched it and now I've watched

56:33

it again

56:34

with my daughter. And you know, I've

56:36

seen every episode about three times I would say.

56:39

But,

56:40

you know, that really sticks in

56:42

the mind. And as you say, it's like your first,

56:44

I know you've done some sketch stuff and you were brilliant in the one

56:46

we talked about before, I'm sure the Kevin Elden show

56:49

where you did Susie Sue. Oh, yes. But

56:51

you hadn't like, this was one of your, like, I'd

56:53

say your first acting job after 20 years

56:56

of trying to be an actor. For much

56:59

like 97 I left drama school.

57:00

Right, OK.

57:02

So yeah, about that. So

57:05

since 1997 there's been a sweetcorn advert. Yeah,

57:09

well that was, I'm sure was good. Annie

57:12

and Linda. So

57:15

what... Why is that? I don't know,

57:18

but there's lots, you know, there's, I think there's, being

57:20

an actor is a very difficult gig. Yeah.

57:23

And, you know, being a stand-up comparatively, you can keep

57:25

working. So if you get a job as a stand-up, you're

57:27

going to go, you know, why would I do...? And

57:29

you can have much more control over your career. Yeah, you've got no control

57:31

and you don't know you're going to work as an actor. Exactly.

57:35

So it's nice if an acting job comes up and I like it, doing

57:37

it every now and again. But yeah, if you write

57:39

your own thing, you can do it. But it's nice that they got you in. And

57:42

I think you

57:42

were perfect for that ghost one.

57:45

Well, that's very kind of you, thank you. And

57:47

I did love it because it was, and I was,

57:50

I think I might have screamed and

57:52

immediately said to my kids,

57:55

oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, I've just had an email

57:57

from my agent through and...

57:59

And it was the

58:02

guy had said, it's only four

58:04

words. And I

58:06

was like, I would just be in the background.

58:09

Like I couldn't, it was genuinely

58:12

a career like highlight. I

58:15

think I might have cried. But

58:18

yeah, I think, because Ghost for me, because like

58:20

in the last 20 years or so, my absolute

58:24

just is favorite

58:26

shows are detectorists and then

58:28

ghosts. So to get

58:30

that, I was like, I'll just, I'll do anything.

58:33

And then they were like, oh yeah, we might give

58:35

you like five lines in the next

58:37

series, five words or something.

58:40

But I didn't care even if I wasn't in

58:43

the next one, but yeah, that was

58:46

just to be part, I genuinely

58:48

think that Ghost is one of those

58:50

shows that is so rare

58:53

and comes around

58:55

probably less than once in a decade.

58:57

I just think it's gonna, people will

58:59

be talking about it and watching it in 30, 40 years time. And

59:03

everyone in it is

59:05

so individually

59:07

like

59:10

the best at what they do. If you think about all

59:12

the people in that and there was an

59:14

ensemble and just the whole show, and

59:16

it's so profound and moving,

59:18

and it's so well-written and it's so funny and

59:21

it's so well shot, I genuinely,

59:23

they should be so proud of that. And

59:26

it really doesn't happen very often. And to

59:28

be a part of that, I mean, I

59:32

just was, I'm very proud to be in

59:34

that

59:34

show. Yeah, it's great. It's wonderful you've

59:37

done. And yeah, you'll still be playing when

59:39

you're a ghost, an actual ghost. And

59:41

you can look at the, a ghost, you can

59:44

look at your performance as a ghost to go, that wasn't how

59:47

being a ghost is like, oh, why

59:49

aren't I going, whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo? Like

59:53

I am now. Oh. Look,

59:58

let's talk.

59:59

I did do that in my... my series, my Radio 4

1:00:01

series, Mortal, I did talk like that as I go. Did

1:00:03

you? Yeah, that's the right way. They've made a mistake. They've

1:00:06

got to re-record the whole series, go... HE

1:00:10

SINGS It'll be a very long, very

1:00:13

long series as they try to get their lines out.

1:00:15

Look, this is an Edinburgh Fringe podcast. Let's

1:00:17

talk about you at Edinburgh Show. It's called Who Am I? Who

1:00:19

Are You?

1:00:20

Do you answer that question? Who Am I? I'm

1:00:23

getting to know. Yeah. But do

1:00:25

we ever really know who we are? I don't think

1:00:28

so. I hope not. I

1:00:30

hope I never find out who I am. Because

1:00:33

I think that, you know, when something happens and

1:00:35

you go,

1:00:35

that wasn't like me, it was, wasn't it?

1:00:37

Because you did it. LAUGHTER Do

1:00:41

you know what I mean? It's like, you did it,

1:00:43

you've been caught on CCTV and now you're

1:00:45

in prison. So it was you that

1:00:47

did it. Yeah. But I... I...

1:00:51

I think I'm getting to know who I am.

1:00:54

Yeah. I think... I

1:00:56

don't know. I feel... I feel like...

1:01:00

..that I'm more like I was when I was little

1:01:02

now. Yeah,

1:01:04

and do you think that... And I think that's... I think that's

1:01:06

because I'm infertile now. I've had my

1:01:08

last period. Yeah. So I

1:01:10

don't... I feel like there's a whole part of

1:01:12

my life that's

1:01:14

not necessary anymore. Yeah.

1:01:17

Well, it's nice for you to

1:01:19

talk about... Again, that's something that doesn't get... For men and women,

1:01:22

that doesn't get talked about. I know it's not the same for men,

1:01:25

men will, you know, things do change. And

1:01:27

men do go nuts, I think.

1:01:29

I mean, more

1:01:31

men go nuts than women do, than

1:01:34

I think in Middle Ages. Because

1:01:34

you don't talk about stuff enough. Yeah.

1:01:37

So then, you know, I think men...

1:01:39

So many men, you know, my contemporaries,

1:01:42

it terrifies me. They get to their 50s

1:01:44

and suddenly

1:01:46

start thinking insane crap and spouting

1:01:48

shit. And I think because...

1:01:50

It's because they are, you

1:01:52

know, in youth, men are, you know, are

1:01:54

that sort of top dog thing and then they have to get used to...

1:01:58

They become less relevant. I know...

1:01:59

you would say,

1:02:01

more relevant and vulnerable. But that's

1:02:02

about where you get your power from, isn't

1:02:03

it? Yeah, so it's about power.

1:02:05

I think that the root of all of our

1:02:07

problems and evil is status

1:02:10

and power and ego

1:02:12

is a part of that as well. And it's like

1:02:14

for a woman, if you're a young woman, I

1:02:18

mean, Mary Wollstonecraft talked about this in 1770, whatever,

1:02:23

but it's like if your power

1:02:25

is from beauty

1:02:26

or from

1:02:28

position and things like that, that's

1:02:31

a false power and that's not going to stay

1:02:33

with you. And real power comes from

1:02:36

actually being who

1:02:38

you are as a

1:02:40

person, that's real power and knowing

1:02:42

that and knowing how to interact

1:02:44

in the world. But you can't use

1:02:47

your power, like money, beauty, all

1:02:49

these things, they're false powers. And

1:02:51

once they go, you don't know

1:02:54

who you are and where your power comes from. So

1:02:56

if you've never had those things, I think you're

1:02:58

probably in a much better

1:03:01

place when you become like

1:03:03

middle aged or older because you've

1:03:06

not lost those things. So for

1:03:08

me, I'm plued. I

1:03:11

think I didn't ever get power from

1:03:13

being

1:03:14

like pretty

1:03:16

or anything like that. I

1:03:18

always try to be funny or say something. And

1:03:23

so I don't feel like now that I'm 51 and

1:03:26

I'm menopausal and I'm not

1:03:28

having periods anymore. So I'm not in my reproductive

1:03:31

years. I don't feel like I'm

1:03:33

trying to figure out who I am. I feel like

1:03:35

a return to self.

1:03:37

Yeah, but that's a great, for

1:03:39

men and women, that's a great thing to hear because

1:03:41

you do, I fear getting older and

1:03:44

there's lots of things to worry about, but

1:03:46

I think you're right. There's lots of positive things

1:03:49

about it. But

1:03:49

that's an acceptance of mortality

1:03:52

and death. And we do have to face

1:03:54

that though. Like we can't be afraid

1:03:57

of getting older because we just get better

1:03:59

as we get older.

1:03:59

And the things that you think that

1:04:02

you value and you lose as you get older, they're

1:04:05

false things that don't matter. And

1:04:07

those things are our looks, our

1:04:11

health.

1:04:11

Like you say, we were

1:04:14

supposed to die when we were 35. No,

1:04:17

we've got all these things that we have to deal with.

1:04:20

Like hairy penises.

1:04:21

Yeah, remember

1:04:24

that. Think about that. Yeah.

1:04:28

What did you... Shaving your own penis,

1:04:31

Luke. Think about that.

1:04:32

You don't shave it. Get it waxed. Get

1:04:34

down to the hair dresses. I can't get it

1:04:36

waxed.

1:04:40

It would lead to terrible things. It wouldn't

1:04:43

be that densely hairy either. No, but

1:04:45

it would be too sexually arousing. It

1:04:48

really would have. Have you ever been waxed?

1:04:51

I haven't. I've seen some videos of it

1:04:53

online, though. I've seen some videos

1:04:55

of it

1:04:56

online where it gets... People get

1:04:58

all sorts like that. Anuses

1:05:01

bleached and waxed. Waxed

1:05:04

and bleached. I would feel uncomfortable

1:05:07

having my penis waxed. Having

1:05:09

your... Penis waxed, I would find that.

1:05:11

I'm not even sure the hair dresses

1:05:14

would do it. I

1:05:18

think if I went in and said that, they'd go, get out

1:05:20

of here. I'm thinking of a trim and

1:05:22

this other thing. Tell

1:05:26

us where you're on in Edinburgh, and you're also touring this show,

1:05:29

I should say, throughout the autumn. I

1:05:31

am,

1:05:31

yes. Do

1:05:33

you know where you're on in Edinburgh? Yes,

1:05:35

I'm at the stand. I'm

1:05:38

not sure what time. I

1:05:40

can look it up. I think it might be around lunchtime.

1:05:43

Yeah, it's usually about that

1:05:45

time. Yes.

1:05:46

I'm usually on between 11

1:05:48

and 2. OK. And

1:05:51

it's... Just go down. The stand is a great venue,

1:05:54

so go and hang out there and watch all the shows and

1:05:56

bridge it or turn up eventually. Or

1:05:59

just look in the...

1:05:59

fringe programme or HAP. Yeah, or I

1:06:02

could, you

1:06:04

know, we could put it on more. I'll put it in the blurb. I'll

1:06:06

put it on the blurb. They can look at the blurb.

1:06:08

But make sure you know what time it is. I think

1:06:10

it's one o'clock.

1:06:11

Thank you so much. Yes,

1:06:14

I'm on at one fifty. At the stand.

1:06:17

But only for the first ten days or

1:06:19

something? Yeah, like second to the ninth. Yeah, cocaine.

1:06:21

And then off on tour and where can we... Gosh,

1:06:24

I'm gonna misswork it. Yeah,

1:06:26

three months, three and a bit months.

1:06:28

And it's properly day after day. It's quite

1:06:30

dense. It is quite dense. So you're not going to come

1:06:32

home between a lot of those gigs.

1:06:33

Do you know what? I've got this thing. If I can get

1:06:36

home, if it's less than like two and a half hours,

1:06:38

I'm going to come home. Yeah. Even

1:06:40

if you've seen the next gigs. Yeah,

1:06:42

I think so. I'm a real home bird. Yeah,

1:06:45

me too. That's why I've done. I love being at home.

1:06:47

You know, I'm touring this and

1:06:49

then I'm hopefully going to tour a stand-up show after this. But

1:06:51

I haven't done it since. No. Because I like being

1:06:53

at home during

1:06:53

the day. I do. I love performing the

1:06:55

show and meeting the audience. Yeah. But I

1:06:58

really miss home so much. Yeah.

1:07:00

But we have to because it's our... It's

1:07:01

our job. It's our calling, isn't it? It's

1:07:04

our call... Well, it's our income, isn't it? It's our...

1:07:07

It's

1:07:10

our calling. It is our calling. Yes. I can't imagine

1:07:12

doing anything. It's my income. That's part

1:07:16

of it as well. That's part of it. Hopefully,

1:07:18

with a bit of luck. If you don't, you know. Well,

1:07:20

I hope to get re-com... Well, I mean, there's no money in TV,

1:07:23

is there? Not, you know, not

1:07:25

really.

1:07:26

But I hope to get, you know. I think it's

1:07:28

touring, isn't it, really?

1:07:29

Touring's good. But it's the main... Do a podcast.

1:07:33

Somebody told me the other

1:07:35

day... It was Jessica Nappett. Oh, yeah. There's

1:07:37

a thing that you can do and get paid for

1:07:39

it, which is

1:07:41

people want you to do something and

1:07:44

you do it. Yeah, it's... What's

1:07:46

it called? It's the oldest profession in the world.

1:07:51

Cameo? No, it's...

1:07:55

Blind people. Blind people?

1:07:58

I should be interviewing this guy. You get blind, blind

1:08:00

people pay you to do what? It's

1:08:03

a nap where you are audience for blind people.

1:08:06

No, it's... Is it a nap where your

1:08:08

eye's for blind people? I mean, that

1:08:10

was a bit of a leap from what she was saying there,

1:08:12

mate. I think, you know... I think it's like people...

1:08:14

You think Jessica Knapp is

1:08:16

going... Jessica Knapp, the established famous

1:08:18

actor... It might be that. ..is looking at things for

1:08:21

blind people and describing it to them. She's

1:08:23

got better things to do.

1:08:26

She'd never do it, she's mean. I

1:08:29

think it's things like, oh, could

1:08:31

you, you know, I don't know, eat an

1:08:34

apple or something? Right. Only

1:08:36

fans.

1:08:38

That's it, only fans. Did

1:08:41

you know about it the whole time? It's...

1:08:44

I mean, it's sort of like Cameo, but it... Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't...

1:08:46

I don't think you need to... A bit like Cameo, what? I

1:08:48

don't think you need to go... I don't think you need to... Only

1:08:50

fans. It's...

1:08:52

If my tour doesn't... So, I don't

1:08:54

need to do that yet, is it? I wouldn't...

1:08:57

I mean, if you want to, I mean, I wouldn't... I'm

1:09:00

not... Why don't I know about stuff? I'm 51.

1:09:03

Is it because I'm from Gloucester? People make a lot of... Ooh,

1:09:06

there's this thing, right? People

1:09:08

make a lot of money on OnlyFans. And it's called OnlyFans. A lot

1:09:10

of people... What do you have to do?

1:09:15

I think if I shave my penis on OnlyFans,

1:09:17

I reckon I could probably make 50 or 50, 100 fans. Oh,

1:09:19

I have no idea it was mucky stuff. Is it mucky

1:09:22

stuff?

1:09:22

Not exclusively. But

1:09:24

he thought it was for blind people. Yeah, he's a nice

1:09:26

guy. He's the only person in the room

1:09:28

thinking, oh, he's probably an altruistic website.

1:09:31

They're helping the blind to see things by

1:09:33

describing it to them. Or it might be the

1:09:35

one where you get your tips out and people wank

1:09:38

off. It's one of those two. Is it one of those

1:09:40

two?

1:09:41

There must be an app for... There

1:09:44

is! There must be an app... If blind

1:09:46

people want to masturbate to

1:09:48

celebrities, there has to be an

1:09:51

app for them. And if there isn't, we have

1:09:53

to make it. How would it work, do

1:09:55

you think? I am shaving my penis now. Oh,

1:10:01

he's just like, just describe it. They

1:10:04

won't know what you look like, are they?

1:10:06

I am very handsome. I

1:10:08

look like a young Michael J Fox. Well,

1:10:11

you do a bit. Yeah. But

1:10:14

he's still quite a handsome

1:10:16

as him. He's still handsome.

1:10:21

Oh, you know how, like, you can age the same

1:10:23

as people or you can end up looking like

1:10:25

them, because

1:10:27

I think that I looked like a young Charles

1:10:30

II when he was about 19, but

1:10:32

not when he was 52.

1:10:34

That's true. But

1:10:36

you haven't aged, I don't understand it. You've

1:10:39

aged backwards, if anything. I haven't aged.

1:10:42

You have your... I've

1:10:43

grown my fringe out. That's not

1:10:45

aging, that's just hair. You can't just go,

1:10:48

my hair's different. It's not how

1:10:50

you... Oh, look at her. She must be older.

1:10:52

Her hair isn't the same as it was. She could

1:10:54

have been in the hairdresser.

1:10:55

Do you film these? Yeah.

1:10:58

So if you look at the one that I did, and

1:11:00

now I'll look, I will look

1:11:03

eight years... When was it, eight years

1:11:04

ago? Eight years ago. I will look eight years older.

1:11:07

Well, I am going to look at them both. Your

1:11:09

eyes get smaller. Do they? Well, just mine.

1:11:14

It's finished now, isn't it? It

1:11:16

is. It should have. We can wrap up,

1:11:18

but, you know, I quite like when it gets

1:11:20

a bit giddy. Oh, my goodness, we have been talking for

1:11:23

ages. Poor, these poor people.

1:11:24

Oh, God. I'm really sorry. So

1:11:27

sorry. I'm so sorry for what we've done. Did

1:11:29

I say too much? It's because... Did

1:11:32

I speak too much? Be

1:11:34

honest. Yeah,

1:11:37

only about three people said no. No,

1:11:41

look, I wish I could talk to you for a lot

1:11:43

longer.

1:11:43

Well, I'll have to come on again, like all your... You can

1:11:45

come back. You can come back. Men that you get back multiple

1:11:47

times. Second time. Look,

1:11:50

did you hear? We're just joking, we're

1:11:52

really good friends. Which

1:11:55

is a proper big feminist? Huh? Oh,

1:11:57

there's this kicking off over there. Everyone's going home. It's

1:11:59

time to go. Thank you very much. Bye. Thank you. Ladies

1:12:01

and gentlemen, give it up for the amazing Bridgette Christie

1:12:05

She's the best. Come see us. So She

1:12:07

is the best You

1:12:14

have been listening to rahala stopper with me

1:12:17

richard herring and my guest bridget christie

1:12:19

Scant regard provide the music I

1:12:22

believe my I'm indebted my producer

1:12:24

ben walker Thank you also to chris evans

1:12:26

not that one and the fantastic

1:12:28

kathleen kegan from rahala stopper rahala

1:12:31

stopper calm without whom I could

1:12:33

never remember what i've asked the guests

1:12:35

before and thank you to everyone at the square theater

1:12:38

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