0:19

totally didn't gentlemen boys goes around the world

0:21

i would like to welcome you back to

0:23

another episode of the real talk with

0:25

you be podcast on today's episode

0:27

we are gonna be having an interesting topic

0:30

on a very much a hot button

0:32

issue and who better to

0:34

discuss this with then eat in

0:36

the court who is a anti

0:39

abortion activist from

0:41

the uk she is also a

0:43

director of the new organization which is

0:45

called abortion resistance so

0:47

welcome to the show eat and how

0:49

and thank you have to me i'm doing really well

0:51

thanks to go they'll say to do this is to

0:54

bring that from calais suits that i think i

0:56

caught something of a paid by them that they absolutely

0:58

fabulous the thank you

0:59

well i've done a brief enjoy right there

1:02

eden but i know your organization

1:04

is new and my listeners may not be

1:06

familiar with what it is that you're doing so

1:09

tell them a little bit about who you are in what you do

1:11

yeah absolutely so abortion resistance

1:13

was launched any four months ago so is actually

1:16

a baby will die they since an addict

1:18

the youngest abortion antiabortion

1:20

organization in the uk an

1:23

electronic fast electronic as as

1:25

to engage with young pro life

1:27

pro abortion and people

1:30

around the uk and around the world on the topic of abortion

1:33

am in the uk there are lots and lots

1:35

of if you like a shift the focus on different

1:37

texas am crisis pregnancy

1:39

post ocean campaigning lobbying

1:41

parliament and the fact that the did nothing

1:43

really that kind of breaking down the bury the conversation

1:45

between young people and and also

1:47

offering kind of a more digital's the pool

1:50

aspects and of

1:52

things for women in crisis pregnancy is

1:54

an just a way for people to connect so

1:56

it's kind of yeah born

1:59

from a need to engage young

2:01

people on social media i'm in real life am

2:03

an especially in london where i mean

2:05

everyone is pretty much for abortion and you

2:07

get a lot of resistance and if you

2:09

are pro life as a young man

2:12

sure thing so i mean it's

2:14

interesting that you are a

2:16

young woman who is pro life

2:18

because as you said that puts you in

2:21

the minority the minority think as much of a minority

2:24

as people actually think i think

2:26

there's propaganda making it seem like you're

2:28

you're you're type are a you know essentially

2:30

nonexistent which is not true at all

2:33

i'm but what is it that

2:35

lead you to the point of

2:38

even wanting to do this how did you even

2:40

get involved in this

2:41

gosh added a long story so excited

2:43

when i was about three years old and

2:46

my parents found out they were expecting

2:48

a child with city disabilities and

2:50

they were heavily pressured by the medical professionals

2:53

do have an abortion and so the

2:55

syndrome that my sister had the school tackles

2:57

in germany what rats and i

2:59

mean the last or of the child

3:02

born with path of injury which again is also

3:04

rest you know it's a few a

3:06

few weeks maximum am

3:08

and say the medical professionals really

3:10

since you know there's no point in having a child it's a really selfish

3:13

and the best option here is abortions now

3:15

my dad is and from will his

3:18

for caribbean and so in that culture

3:20

in any really to valleys and the

3:22

human person is even in the whims

3:24

and so abortion really wasn't an option

3:26

for my parents my mom came from kind of but

3:28

that she's from easier for her parents like

3:30

irish and some of the catholic background in that just

3:32

was on the cause they found it weird it is called

3:35

actually sides health care providers she was supportive

3:37

of that decision to choose life and

3:40

i said they started getting involved with a for an organization

3:42

in put them in touch with a few pro nice and

3:45

doctors and medical freshman in

3:47

london an insult from

3:49

and of young age i've been in contact with this

3:52

for like organization when

3:54

i got my teen years and i thought haven't from

3:56

faces my piece about any started coming up

3:59

and will tell i've been

4:01

where and we go into the discussion

4:03

will get enough thirteen or fourteen

4:05

and one of the guns with arguing it

4:07

from a take a disability trying to justify

4:09

bush and in the case with a child has a disability

4:13

and it kind of you know my sister she

4:15

died it up once you get past the aunt

4:17

she little shoes on ice for an

4:19

answer with a happy saw that ever met she just

4:21

put so much join expressions my life and semi

4:23

other people's lives and so when i had

4:25

a talking about it and try to justify bullshit from the

4:28

aspect i kind of that low hang on a second

4:30

you're basically saying people at my sister does

4:32

he said how much your life

4:35

and she did not yeah

4:36

you can focus should be her into the love

4:38

and i didn't go

4:39

i don't that's crazy i like single say

4:41

she was better off dead and and

4:43

have existing and mean never knowing her

4:46

and she said yes it's about smoke what do

4:49

this this other thing like me so i kind of

4:51

looked incidentals i never

4:53

in the uk even have an abortion to twenty

4:55

four weeks any reason and up the baton the case the

4:57

disability are not really should

4:59

be a full that was just absolutely horrid

5:01

mississippi procedures house

5:04

i will increase

5:11

when

5:14

it's done impending and and

5:17

then it kind of just went for now

5:19

realize that you know

5:22

with the i'm blown being systematically

5:24

targeted and killed in the when there is no

5:26

issue to me and more important next

5:29

day and age because it's legal am

5:31

and so really try to combat that

5:33

the college board and it's destroying

5:35

our society and assuring lives on

5:37

women died and he could

5:40

adding some this why that is somehow empowering

5:42

it to a week i wouldn't be

5:45

doing their duty if he didn't and up and

5:47

actually do something active even

5:48

one hundred eighty i didn't she

5:50

outreach until people actually on the streets

5:52

about the issue

5:54

we found out that they're more people than me think

5:56

that are in the middle and you just picked up a conversation

5:59

with him to get into and to protect

6:01

his and why human acted important

6:03

in the waves am and you just

6:05

kind of automatically think everyone

6:07

is pro abortion because that's what the media's

6:09

how he to think and it's not the case

6:12

i'm not going on which

6:14

in a people in the middle him

6:18

the combination and returned within they get

6:20

it from

6:23

, out which is possible that organizations

6:25

and twenty different between

6:28

a man i i

6:30

you feel renewed

6:32

organization was resistance as a friend of

6:34

mine and that kind of primarily based in london at the

6:36

moment

6:37

history

6:38

yeah i know he our wouldn't

6:41

it's it's important because it's

6:43

important to know what drives and motivates people

6:45

because often times it is some type

6:47

of personal experience

6:49

or circumstance or circumstance when it comes to this

6:51

issue and particular and i'm sure as an activist

6:54

you know this who

6:56

you know there there are there a lot of things that make

6:58

it a minefield

7:01

the one of them is the

7:03

fact that it's not

7:05

a comfortable conversation regardless

7:07

of someone's position or

7:09

lack of it's nada

7:12

aids is not a dinner party conversation

7:14

it's not conversation paul is and

7:17

seeing to discuss or a

7:19

as someone who pro

7:22

like myself i'm

7:24

, time i have the conversation even if it's weird

7:27

another person who is pro life

7:29

let alone someone who is not

7:32

it's not pleasant it's just gross

7:34

it's dark arms it's human

7:36

life and death you

7:38

know however people one is frame it

7:41

or sugar coated or whatever their

7:43

position is if you're speaking

7:45

about the issue honestly i'm

7:47

and i'm and give some respects to

7:49

that person you were talking to because even though

7:51

i totally disagree with her position at least she was

7:54

she was honest and that's actually cut quite

7:56

hard to find because a lot of people

7:58

on the opposite side of the argument hi completely

8:01

on euphemisms and dancing

8:03

around the issue and never really talking

8:05

about it had on or saying their position because

8:08

when they say it especially that argument

8:10

i mean that's a straight up eugenics organ right

8:13

no sugar joining that is an argument for

8:15

eugenics and if you go around and ask

8:17

people if they support eugenics i mean a golf course

8:19

not right that's a poor terrible idea but

8:22

i mean i tweeted about this the other week i said a

8:24

surprising number of people in the west when

8:26

it comes down to it support eugenics

8:28

and they wouldn't say that but

8:31

it's true

8:32

if you're saying that if somebody is

8:34

i mean the laws in the uk are

8:37

the eugenic right if it's you're saying

8:40

that okay this is the limit twenty four weeks

8:42

is absurd i think to begin with but

8:45

if you think there's no limit if someone has a disability

8:47

and that could include something as mild as a cleft

8:49

lip according our right the

8:51

down syndrome right things there there are countries

8:53

i'm sure you know in the world in europe where

8:56

down syndrome essentially doesn't exist anymore rise

8:59

that's why did i nobody with down syndrome it's like

9:01

oh because you killed them all before he

9:03

the and were born so when you really start

9:05

talking about it in you go into it you

9:08

, it's actually it's it's dark it's

9:11

, dark and worth living

9:13

in this time we're we're supposed to be all advanced

9:17

and progressive and and liberal

9:19

and kind intolerant and so on and

9:21

so forth and there's millions

9:24

and millions of people the aliens

9:26

come over the course of many years who

9:29

don't have any human rights right people don't even

9:31

want to recognize the humanity

9:34

of this subset of the population and

9:37

that to me i don't

9:39

know if you feel is a way but to be glad to meet

9:41

up that's dark that's like will for

9:44

all the all the games we made and all the progress

9:47

and all the anti discrimination and equality

9:49

expansion of right of right even the way people treat animals

9:52

i mean you know someone

9:55

pick the cat or some wanna is mean

9:57

to a dog and people come for someone

9:59

should the lion or i mean the

10:01

ways boy

10:04

you're you're you're get the mob on you but

10:06

then you'll also get the mob on you if you say hey

10:09

i don't think we should kill unborn babies the

10:12

and are you surprised by how controversial

10:14

that position

10:16

i'm fine never

10:18

fail to make more i

10:20

genuinely you know and there are people out

10:22

there who

10:23

know that it is a human from

10:26

fact live nation and will still defend

10:28

the per bullshit position and that never

10:30

fails to the literally boggles my mind

10:33

i just don't understand i didn't he

10:39

even what you said you have have a spectacle

10:41

yeah she said she was for an extreme

10:43

eugenics tradition a how can you

10:45

have that mentality where did that come

10:47

from you know

10:49

i mean i

10:52

i generally don't think we are as vast as

10:54

advanced as we think we are

10:56

the i think that all

10:59

throughout human society

11:01

every time everywhere everywhere

11:03

in his your i'm not aware

11:05

the

11:06

the anywhere in the world really or

11:08

any place that is like what

11:11

i would describe as truly

11:13

consistently pro life across the board

11:16

doesn't exist and it's never really existed i mean

11:18

you could you go back in history of course there was there

11:20

were genocides and people i

11:22

you're discriminating against each other this group of people

11:24

on human this cooper people's not human so

11:27

on and so forth slavery brutality

11:29

all it off i mean thousands

11:31

of years going back thousands and thousands of years

11:33

and you know it's a really long time for people to

11:35

work at only slavery things about idea i

11:37

mean slavery went on for thousands of years

11:40

and it's kind of mind

11:42

blowing to think that i

11:45

mean imagine being someone who was pro yahoo

11:47

who wanted to abolish slavery right at

11:50

the time when it was just i well that's just the norm

11:52

and these people are not human being so he can

11:54

do this and we can do that and you're kind

11:56

of their in a minority thinking this

11:59

is clear the wrong i guess is clearly

12:01

morally and ethically and issue but when

12:03

you're in that minority in the popular

12:06

position is just yeah

12:08

i'm sure there were plenty of people who didn't really like

12:10

get more like no like don't really like this like

12:12

was i wouldn't do it myself but you

12:14

know that someone elses choice it

12:18

is a hard so i don't think

12:20

we're kind of done without our societal

12:22

evolution yeah i think think

12:25

particular scenario because

12:27

especially because it's framed as a

12:29

women's rights issue that

12:32

is one of the most powerful tools

12:35

in the thing because they have you are pro life

12:37

or antiabortion then especially

12:39

as a man i mean i'm sure you yo yo yo

12:41

get plenty or he to bought a

12:43

bit i'm becomes oh you're anti women's right

12:45

here in anti women you want to control people

12:48

you want to force people to do this and force

12:50

people to do that you're anti choice

12:52

you are you know you're pro birth your and

12:54

i don't mind being called pro birth i mean i am progress

12:57

i think if a woman gets pregnant she did she should give birth

12:59

went on as you see should be forced into pregnancy

13:02

obviously i'm what

13:05

and then it's also a strange conversation because

13:07

people act as if they don't know where do these countries

13:10

right that

13:13

, another weird part it's it's it's

13:16

it's like it's this mystical thing and

13:19

room to me and i mean i'm like oh

13:22

sweet work by the some we're having

13:24

this conversation something upstream is

13:27

already happened and

13:30

i think we live in this age where people i said

13:32

before people want all of the rights and none of the responsibilities

13:35

you wonder why you're absolutely everything

13:38

and for their never to be a consequence you

13:40

want to outsource accountability outsource

13:42

responsibility and it's me me

13:45

me me me i want this me

13:47

me me my i it's all

13:49

i it's all that but there's

13:52

not much of a conversation about okay

13:55

well what are the responsibilities yeah

13:57

that come with this right

13:59

you we have a right i mean there's

14:02

no laws around whether

14:04

who who somebody can have sex

14:07

with our how they should apps actually like you

14:09

have a rights to i have a

14:11

right to go and knock up dozens

14:14

and dozens of different when it if if there's

14:16

no laws stopping me from doing that i

14:19

have a responsibility

14:21

as a man as an adult

14:23

who

14:25

take responsibility for my actions and

14:27

happy wise with my decision making

14:29

if i going do that and then i'm playing

14:31

the victim because i gotta pay child support to ten

14:33

different people

14:34

i don't think i'm going again much sympathy

14:36

though

14:39

as well as like again you're taking responsibility

14:41

for the consequences of your actions but it's

14:43

absolutely petrified to see how many young

14:45

people refuse take responsibility

14:48

for anything and it is thing as

14:50

well because even with movement

14:53

is somebody in a movement three

14:55

so for example and you

14:57

know that the crisis pregnancy centers that were bombed

14:59

and destroyed in america

15:01

after are the wave it's a big hand and

15:04

you know there was no even responsibility

15:06

from the fruits with movement of that condemning

15:09

the actions of the people within the movement

15:12

with it's really scary and

15:14

because they're doing terrible thing

15:16

and you know when you know

15:19

my my lucky and apologizing for

15:21

all

15:22

doing anything about this because he is

15:24

because a lot of people quietly

15:26

agree with yeah and those

15:29

your don't agree yeah , mean

15:31

this isn't really in our lifetimes but i mean

15:33

in the us in particular i mean this

15:36

happened the other way around in

15:38

the on sam like the eighties and in the nineties

15:40

there were abortion clinics getting bombed

15:43

there were abortionists to

15:45

gotten assassinated ah ah

15:48

was a very real think there were

15:50

pro life advocates i'm anti

15:52

abortion at at activists who

15:54

would do that and it

15:58

again this is this is why the thing is the

16:00

a weird and the

16:02

conversation because you

16:06

can also understand that

16:08

position and i'm not saying this to justify

16:11

it at all to be very clear on

16:13

that that is not the way that activists should behave

16:15

and i do not condone violence

16:17

but if someone is going in there

16:19

and taking lives every single

16:21

day taking innocent lives it's

16:23

not extremely difficult to understand

16:26

where someone is coming from where okay well i'm

16:29

now justified to take this personally

16:31

i've if yeah is what they're doing so

16:33

you can understand it and then

16:35

on the flipside again with

16:37

the way the narrative is painted it's like oh my

16:39

gosh these people i mean i don't know why if

16:42

we targeted a crisis pregnancy center enough that's

16:44

kind of strange but for people

16:46

on the far end of the other issue it's like

16:48

oh my gosh these people are taking

16:51

taking women's rights and trying to force

16:53

them to do this and this is the slippery slope into

16:55

the handmaid's tale and going to be this

16:58

never write it i mean but that's not

17:00

my position but if you just listen to people

17:02

and you see what they're saying and you listen to what the that

17:04

that's there that's their

17:06

position and the great you know these these extreme

17:09

anti choice activists

17:11

and it's all i

17:14

don't know it's so messy is it's very

17:16

very messy but in terms of your own

17:18

position what what is your

17:21

how would you sort of summarize what your personal

17:23

position is if someone asks you okay

17:26

your your you call yourself pro-life

17:28

you call yourself an anti abortion what

17:30

what's your position

17:33

what are the people act going to the nuances

17:35

of exceptions this and that what what is your

17:37

position to be clear on that i

17:40

absolutely and utterly inc

17:42

washington i'm in second

17:44

started and with regards

17:46

to when a woman's life is in danger for

17:48

example like an ectopic pregnancy

17:51

and you know intention does

17:53

come into it and so if

17:56

a the embryo well

17:58

die

17:59

the

18:00

the mother would i removed it are

18:02

technically an abortion because the procedure isn't

18:05

too pleased to and such as pluto single

18:07

killing unborn take , risk

18:09

of the mother am in a very physically

18:11

or his personal on up with you know if

18:13

both the gonna die you have to save one and

18:17

, other than that in the cases the

18:19

extreme cases which everyone always likes to bring

18:21

up like rape and incest i would be against

18:23

abortion those circumstances and

18:26

and eventually i'd like abortion to become

18:28

illegal but before and i think we

18:30

need to have the societal shift and

18:32

in the way that they look abortion or less and how it

18:35

does affect women so you

18:37

kind of you that that pro bush and crowd saying

18:39

you know well as abortion comes illegal women are going to do

18:41

anyway and that is true unless

18:43

we able to change the culture and and

18:45

provide services to support systems for

18:48

women in christ fancy elsa parents in general

18:50

and so that is a must admit

18:53

and

18:53

it's it's also not a great argument

18:55

to say that something should be legalized

18:57

simply because some people are going into it anyway

19:00

yeah that's really not agree

19:02

i mean and i don't think most now the many

19:04

the arguments are are are great i

19:06

got older you may vary by vary by and

19:09

no one with any other

19:11

why would any others but you have i violent

19:14

crime is you know when you know some men

19:16

are gonna rape women anyway so easy to see you i

19:18

did not know one another realize what no one

19:20

in their right mind

19:21

would i would consider such a thing and

19:23

also there's no other a situation

19:26

where people will use situations

19:28

that make up less than one percent of

19:30

the situations in order to argue

19:32

in favor of one hundred percent we understand that

19:34

there there were times where homicide is justified if

19:38

someone could if someone comes in the if i if

19:40

i have a gun and someone comes at me and draws

19:42

a gun on me and i shoot them before they shoot me that

19:44

are justified opposite i'm not even the i'm probably

19:46

not even a go trough right at just

19:48

bite on the side can happen in situations

19:50

of war where war has been declared

19:53

in your your your defendant or land against

19:55

invaders us and you kill someone

19:57

that is a justified homes but that

19:59

doesn't homicide in general is okay with

20:01

that my just just because you can find

20:04

rare in specific cases

20:06

where you might be able

20:09

to say okay from at least a moral or unethical

20:11

perspective

20:12

that

20:13

use is is justifiable it

20:15

still wouldn't mean okay so

20:18

all of it is and a gamble only use

20:20

that approach

20:22

on this particular issue as soon as

20:24

people jump straight there it's just like okay

20:27

, not really being yeah

20:29

jim lives year now and you don't actually

20:31

really cast it is

20:34

thing , a brutal always

20:36

been always in the

20:38

, ages and it makes up less

20:41

than one percent of all abortions and

20:43

i mean that is so that it's terrible that

20:45

the fact that they would trivialize

20:48

that kind of at just push

20:51

their agenda as you think it's own

20:54

dodging is so wrong

20:55

do you think that they're do

20:57

think that those are reasonable legal

21:00

exceptions

21:01

no one is just as nearby

21:04

the it's i just you know again it's

21:06

the kind of guy to the logic of that you know

21:09

the human human fertilisation linda

21:11

and i can justify a lot you can justify

21:14

killing the human to kinda something they didn't

21:16

commit or thought set themselves up

21:18

their control with nine conception

21:20

i don't get it is it with it we the hard

21:22

ones especially for quite a mine

21:24

off or something like that and it's

21:26

very have what

21:28

it is a up that i could i

21:31

ask that because that's something that's i'm you know

21:33

even as if someone who considers myself

21:35

pro life that's one where

21:37

i think ethically and morally the

21:40

circumstances conception make

21:43

no difference a human beings a human being am i going to suddenly

21:45

sales it's not human being to the not

21:47

intellectual consistent know biologically

21:49

consistent i do i'm

21:52

not i'm not sure myself where i

21:54

stand on the legality

21:57

of those yeah zero point four percent cases

21:59

or something

21:59

there's also that a situation

22:02

where

22:03

this is not someone again

22:06

coming back to that responsibility be peace

22:09

they're not someone you

22:12

know kind of being responsible for their for their own

22:14

actually that's not something that was forced

22:16

however i do think that it's important

22:19

overall coming back to point you are making

22:21

earlier as i'd like to see our

22:23

societies just move generally

22:26

in a more pro life direction

22:29

com and i think that

22:32

for that to happen

22:34

you have to win the

22:36

moral an ethical conversation

22:38

first i think that jumping

22:41

straight into legislation

22:45

i don't know i think you you have to take yeah to change

22:47

yeah polly's have to tell him a call for you

22:50

you have to get people to at least

22:53

concede that

22:55

this is not a good thing and this this

22:58

is also how the conversation is changed because

23:00

that used to generally be understood and accepted

23:03

decades ago but now these

23:05

so called pro choice movement has

23:08

in many ways be com their

23:11

their their actual position has changed

23:13

gone from

23:15

the on safe legal and rare which is a

23:18

bit of an oxymoron in itself but

23:20

it's gone from that as to which

23:22

which has the implicit understanding the okay this

23:24

is nadia is not a good thing is

23:26

not something we we want tons of women

23:29

do we are you know in all me going out there and

23:31

having an abortion or something like that but

23:34

it was kind of this begrudgingly pro choice position

23:37

and now and lot of people still do hold

23:39

that but dogs a larger voices in the

23:42

space now are just like loans

23:44

just my body my

23:46

choice know you as no no no

23:48

no restrictions no time

23:50

limits know nothing

23:52

and if you are

23:55

supposed to that in any way shape or form

23:57

in you learn well

24:00

person who who hates women and so on

24:02

and so forth so as

24:04

an as someone who spend

24:06

a lot of time in your you're dedicating

24:08

your your time and you're working your energy

24:10

to doing this what are

24:12

some of the biggest hurdles that you face

24:15

or what have some of the things that you have found most

24:17

surprising most surprising activism thus far

24:19

as a really tough question

24:22

what the repeated heard

24:24

own you know what the use

24:26

the young people especially on social

24:28

media am media

24:32

you know

24:34

i reach a lot of people with my sexual

24:36

preferences top especially because

24:38

it's just a fashion design to that just

24:40

to get , lot of the stuff and

24:43

and it kind of the most disheartening

24:45

think this is again when you got and have realized

24:48

conversations with the people's you know you

24:50

realize that a lot of them a more open to

24:52

the culture of life than you would expect

24:55

that when you go and platforms like tic toc

24:57

and even swiss up people us soil

24:59

vicious and they would say things

25:01

you that they wouldn't wouldn't of

25:03

staying in a normal conversation face to

25:05

face and , that's probably the

25:08

biggest hurdle is actually trying to con it's cuts

25:10

through all that the crap that

25:13

posted am and actually have proper

25:15

discussions because it is possible to change someone's

25:17

mind obsession with you i mean of i've done it lots of

25:19

times before and the actually finding

25:22

the good times it's way through it

25:24

all and actually pick pick up people who are genuinely

25:27

interested am and not listen to suppress

25:30

the really terrible things the you get sent and

25:33

for the most surprising thing i

25:35

think it's been just yet again when you actually speak

25:37

to people about how many people are willing

25:39

to listen again the media paint out for

25:41

the very back like polarized which in

25:44

online i think it is and

25:46

when you get to maybe the dinner table

25:48

maybe not maybe three outreach the seasons

25:51

people you know demo

25:53

i think listing and they're not as like dismissive

25:55

am and it's not that kind of black and white is like

25:57

you hate women you can find it gets

25:59

he then the kind compassionate side

26:02

and help them see where you're coming from rather than

26:04

it just being a screen will match or a

26:06

comment or

26:07

you know how often do you find that people

26:09

even know the basic facts

26:11

oh oh yeah

26:13

i mean i is really not

26:16

my online not very often and it's sent

26:18

me a person they weren't even or the north people

26:20

just don't know they just kind of go

26:22

on believing it but they don't actually know where people

26:24

when i tell people that you can have most of the by for

26:27

disability and you case they are horrified

26:29

the majority of my absolutely shocked

26:31

because they don't know that and if

26:33

it it's not discussed well enough

26:36

am and again they wouldn't go into it

26:38

just and look into it of the room

26:40

back and so i don't think

26:42

lot of people know that and the

26:44

only the people who do not

26:46

the human being can be food change

26:48

it going back and the many people

26:50

who refuse to acknowledge

26:52

the human life that began in the way it also

26:54

quite scary

26:56

athletic really hard time

26:59

comprehending the amount of people who blink

27:02

at need a nice and i don't know such trauma

27:04

linked to some kind of abortion

27:05

they can experience definitive okay

27:08

that's a big problem to yeah and

27:10

the images block it that never snooze

27:12

old to acknowledge the fact that you can literally

27:14

see

27:15

any health website or had

27:17

been a medical textbook shocking

27:20

, me well i think that

27:22

people don't want to confront

27:24

or accept that

27:26

not because they actually don't believe

27:29

it right because

27:32

if it's accepted then

27:35

that has real moral implications

27:38

for their position and perhaps for

27:40

what they are advocating for so

27:44

mightn't with me myself i mean

27:46

up until my

27:48

late twenties i

27:50

never even really i never thought about the

27:52

issue honestly i'm

27:55

very very little like off on

27:57

the surface i never i never liked the idea i

27:59

was always like

28:00

like it's gross like i always thought it was killing

28:02

the baby of course because he just is

28:05

i'd never i never really had like

28:07

a reason or anything

28:10

to really i don't know getting

28:12

i didn't i didn't really have a position where shall i think a

28:14

lot of people's position lending a lot of people

28:16

are almost i guess you could say pro

28:18

choice by default yeah right is

28:20

somewhat it's it's the law of the land i

28:22

assume that the laws are generally

28:26

correct and make sense and other

28:28

people have , about

28:30

this way more than i have so

28:32

you tend to just what

28:34

or whatever country you're in most people

28:36

just accept okay like the law is just

28:38

the law and this law and it isn't a probably

28:42

probably makes us to the most cases it as normally

28:44

as i ah okay like a gag at the don't

28:46

make make sense so i'm not gonna go

28:49

out and question this and then

28:51

when some of these conversations just started

28:53

popping up more i think we went for

28:55

example when certain bills started being passed in

28:57

the usa and whatever and it just started becoming much

28:59

bigger conversation it got to a point where

29:01

i was a you don't let me let me really do my research

29:04

alright lemme lemme really look into this

29:06

let me look into i'm

29:08

the the i mean i remember learning

29:10

in school a little bit about fetal

29:13

development and gestation and

29:15

what , looks like a different stages the let let me let

29:18

me really look into this let me look into okay

29:20

out out an abortion performed at

29:22

different stages okay that first

29:24

twelve week this twelve week it looks like and then ah

29:27

second trimester this one looks like it because the third

29:29

trimester this these are the procedure and i

29:31

actually watched a couple videos like real

29:34

videos yeah right i'm

29:36

i'm i don't think many people have like actually watched

29:38

a video of a so called dilation

29:40

and evacuated i was like holy

29:44

land there are a mess me up

29:47

by a million it up an obscene

29:49

scene photos of the reason

29:51

i see i've seen as before and i was just like i

29:53

became pro life pretty progressed

29:56

and then listening to listening

29:58

to the best arguments

29:59

on both sides of the debate

30:01

and just finding the pro life on so

30:04

much more compelling

30:06

and consistent and intellectually

30:09

honest and morally sound because to

30:14

to to accept abortion you either

30:16

have to you either have to deny

30:18

the humanity yes which is biologically

30:21

unsound or you have to accept

30:23

that in some scenarios

30:25

it's okay to intentionally

30:28

directly terminate an innocent

30:31

human life

30:32

yeah to accept eat or yeah to be have

30:34

to set one one or both of those and

30:37

given my my own moral framework

30:39

and my own intellectual honesty i'm

30:42

like nah not cool i'm not go with either of those

30:45

are my i can do the as is not a baby

30:47

hazards of parasites economy by that

30:49

that's a completely intellectually dishonest

30:52

arm or you have to go okay i'd is it

30:54

is a baby it is it is human being

30:56

why

30:57

i did you should be able to that

30:59

human human being anyway and

31:01

of it if it inconveniences you are you

31:03

can afford it or they might be the now my

31:06

i'm i'm now and

31:08

i'm not i'm not okay with that some people here

31:10

that know like yeah okay i'm i'm okay with animals

31:13

like know that doesn't

31:15

sit with my ethics in my morals

31:17

and what i know

31:18

the be correct i think that there are many many

31:21

from up from a pragmatic or convenience

31:24

perspective i think there are many

31:26

solid arguments in favor of

31:29

abortion but i don't leave convenience

31:32

should trump

31:34

morality and ethics i think

31:36

that if you'd accept that then yeah

31:39

you're you're you're going to very dark territory

31:41

than you can start justifying a lot of really

31:43

dark things and saying oh well it would be

31:45

more convenient or more pragmatic

31:48

or cheaper to

31:49

this or that you know you can argue to bump

31:52

off all all sorts of people yes every

31:55

i mean i mean of convenience

31:57

again he could have argued it from that point of view

32:00

yeah economics convenience

32:05

or year so it is that henri again you have

32:07

you go there to the dehumanization argument which

32:09

is what they used and in the usa so

32:11

all of these are not human beings right there in the

32:13

same category as as livestock as

32:15

guess cattle a chicken and that's how they

32:17

got around it you know despite

32:19

the fact this and and what's even darker

32:22

with that is i mean if you think of it at that time i

32:24

mean country like the usa and

32:26

even in great britain i mean those were more

32:28

christian countries them than

32:30

they are now i'm so

32:33

if even weirder to think man like people

32:35

who on

32:37

on many other things they were so like on

32:40

points and moral

32:42

and righteous but like there's just the sandwich

32:45

blue jay like giant

32:47

the lot

32:49

in terms of what they're doing and how they're justified

32:52

you that i do feel like we're

32:54

i do feel like we are we are there again

32:56

as a society with this with his particular

32:58

issue where there's just there's this giant

33:01

lots any kind of hidden

33:03

and it's kind of invisible and i think yes

33:05

also help people get around it is not visible by

33:08

it's not last that you could just walk around

33:10

i mean you can go to san francisco you know most liberal

33:12

place where it is walking around cool like ever you

33:14

don't like seeing this happening it's to oh

33:17

okay but as this dark underbelly

33:19

in this industry and it really is an industry

33:22

arm and this and this and utilities

33:24

and look at the numbers into a to the figures and no

33:27

one talks about it and it's all like underground

33:30

and no one sees it no one sees the results

33:32

of it to site will steal for that

33:34

and waste disposal and i'm

33:36

outta sight outta mind and i think

33:38

that i don't i think even if women had like transparent

33:41

bellies or something and you could like see with

33:44

a pregnant woman you could like you're literally like see

33:46

the child their i think even that would make

33:48

such a big difference in our empathy

33:50

and compassion the people feel

33:52

cause it's just like oh outta sight

33:54

the mind they don't think about it

33:56

an interesting as well because during

33:58

the m during the how close it now

34:01

i'm , the uk they introduced kills

34:03

by post which is basically taking

34:05

medical abortion pills at home and

34:08

say there were lots of women who were been

34:10

collecting having abortions you look family

34:12

members ringing i'm getting the washington live

34:14

with their homes to have no face

34:16

to face contact with any kind of medical

34:18

professional abortionist version fine whatever

34:21

and and then have to go through all

34:23

of that in their own homes they actually

34:26

typical and then deliver a dead

34:28

children down the toilet you

34:30

know by themselves and you

34:33

know now become an internet

34:35

thing in the uk day pretty through few months ago

34:37

like i kind of think maybe because

34:40

of that more move women are going to start

34:42

waking up to the reality of abortion isn't

34:44

what it as and and maybe

34:46

things might get better and people who had abortions

34:49

post a lot of women will actually come forward

34:51

and be like what i had this and i

34:53

saw this have experienced issue this is an

34:56

apparent think this think this a thorough thing

34:58

and about three sad

35:01

at how do you think it's some

35:04

how do you think it's

35:07

this sort of framing of

35:09

the of the issue as being something

35:12

that empowering though

35:14

to women as a as a woman yourself

35:17

how does that number one

35:19

how does that kind of make you feel

35:22

and number two howdy how do

35:24

you think that you

35:26

voided

35:27

the guy up i think it's a sign up but how

35:29

how did you avoid that because

35:32

i do think that for decades

35:35

there have been many many lies pushed up

35:37

on society pushed on man pushed on

35:39

women sometimes it's the same message sometimes

35:41

it's it's a different message it's particularly

35:43

for one sex and i do

35:45

think that this one has been one of the most successful

35:49

brainwashing schemes of the past couple decades

35:51

for it to be framed as this

35:54

is the this is

35:56

not this is this is a moral good

35:58

this is prosocial this is and

35:59

wearing this is you know you

36:02

you go girl you know your your body

36:04

your choice don't know man tell you what like it did

36:06

the way it's been sold his

36:08

his mind blowing me i'm just like oh my

36:10

gosh

36:11

the bachelor i think it's the opposite i literally

36:13

think it's not an easy

36:15

in cities the way they've managed

36:17

to do millions

36:19

of females around the world into thinking

36:22

that this is something that beneficial for them and

36:24

other women and you know so insulting as

36:26

well because you know if you come at it from kind of us

36:28

a feminist perspective where you know a lot

36:30

of in approach with advocates would mining

36:33

town as feminist they are literally

36:36

trying to reject the thing that is inherent

36:38

to females victim to

36:41

kind of male dominated world

36:43

where they have to have abortions in order

36:46

to be eat with men it was be successful will have

36:48

careers or fulfill that dream as

36:50

women you know they have denied the very thing

36:52

that's inherent to see if you know to the female

36:56

so it

36:57

i just again the way

36:59

that if so then pushed it

37:01

right

37:02

oh to be equally society

37:04

you have to am i got

37:07

a male normative body and

37:09

and to sit in that's how you have

37:11

to do enough to deny motherhood and

37:13

us even , against it completely

37:16

it's such an he and his mother that

37:18

anti child is

37:21

so twisted as twisted screwed up and

37:24

yes the again and the again kind of an angle

37:26

that and

37:28

iconic from if you know if you're seeking it's

37:30

on his oui il identify themselves

37:32

feminists you can kind of comedy manga

37:34

athena oh

37:35

how can you accept disseminate i'm

37:38

telling you that you

37:40

need to reject your

37:43

fertility in order to emphasize

37:45

the north evening we have

37:47

a career you know it's just

37:50

shortly after is how do

37:52

you think you avoided them

37:55

it's such a pain

37:57

again given me to be effective when my

37:59

she did my parents

38:01

and also it's been interesting have you get a barren browse

38:04

this against i've just been i like

38:06

i love their brown and i watch it all of his stuff

38:08

and and you know he always talks

38:11

about their majority of the human race

38:13

to very susceptible and house

38:15

influences and pretty much be on

38:18

a program to do anything which was kind

38:20

of seen the party years

38:22

and define

38:25

authority figures and i think

38:27

there are some people who were just

38:31

drink kind of resist the

38:34

flu and actually think to themselves to themselves

38:36

of people just want to go with the flags they don't

38:38

want to stand out they want to fit in you

38:40

know they want to be part of a tripod the crew

38:42

and so they go with what majority it's rather than

38:45

thinking to themselves and i just

38:46

i'm people are naturally a

38:48

bit more susceptible to

38:50

out into it is some people

38:51

and i think probably it comes into the the

38:54

i'm at if the clown i think i'm

38:57

myself would you like you

38:59

yeah how

39:03

do you think that

39:05

we move forward on this issue

39:07

so you started your organization

39:10

abortion resistance but what do you think

39:13

are some effective ways

39:15

the

39:16

having these discussions which can be

39:19

difficult and

39:22

actually getting people to

39:24

see you know removing this veil

39:26

and getting people to at least see

39:29

what is really going on because

39:31

i find myself like i don't

39:34

consider myself an activist it all by

39:36

i find it

39:37

maybe you shouldn't be shocking because

39:39

i myself even in my mid

39:42

twenties didn't really know all

39:45

that much about what was really going

39:47

on because i'd never lifting

39:49

do it no felt the inclination to

39:51

do so in in any sort of detail

39:53

it was just like this it's it's it's a key

39:55

it's gross i don't wanna look

39:58

into that so much so i

39:59

can't

40:01

i'm not totally supply i'm i'm struck by

40:03

some people's complete lack of

40:05

any type of biological sense know what

40:09

i'm but i guess i guess i

40:11

also empathize with

40:14

people not knowing some of the facts because

40:16

there was a time when

40:18

i myself did

40:20

yeah i'm so what do you think is an effective

40:22

approach

40:22

i'm

40:25

many i think one of the

40:27

most effective approach is actually put in like the

40:29

ground like doing the ground lox and actually

40:31

being nasty support women's

40:34

the younger good company and people

40:36

in organization said

40:38

pretty pretty

40:39

and kids who come now offer them

40:41

every avenue of support and

40:43

because it's legal that will move will go away and

40:45

have for abortion and is a fisa

40:47

do you can't hold him down to the time down to

40:49

the us to stop them that they're also being

40:52

to them the next to them after wish

40:54

to help them and let them know that they're

40:56

still loved am and they still in

40:58

a matter if anything comes to put them after

41:00

that i think it's waiting for success the

41:03

market for point of view where when know against

41:06

women were he for women during

41:08

and after uneven it you know if they choose

41:10

like which hopefully you know that of

41:12

the see what you always want you be

41:14

there to help me suffer from afterwards and

41:17

the capacity but you can i

41:19

felt help people and now you know you'll

41:21

find witness in that way they'll they'll

41:24

kill other people about how you behave and what you've

41:26

done and there's never been

41:28

affected five ambassador for

41:31

the pro life movement then facebook

41:33

event has been helped by the pro

41:35

life movement is had their children and

41:37

will sit ins forfeit because people will listen

41:39

to them and more than if

41:41

we just say humanistic is it felt like i said wrong

41:44

taken into account

41:46

of again if such an emotional topic

41:48

that kind of interesting and emotional way

41:50

and and emotional compassionate way is that

41:53

and then saying that sometimes there

41:55

is there is to be a bit sustain it sustain fiery

41:58

and i'm june rallies and you know that you

42:00

wanted her to be loud and then

42:02

also to interesting that the great way of doing things

42:04

because when you were loud when you outrageous

42:06

when you can a bold and five six people

42:09

like content that's the like constantly

42:11

the renewal goes to new much

42:13

you just sit back and then you the engagement

42:16

and then you get more people feel concept and then

42:18

you get the people that once you confuse the genuine

42:20

conversations lead to actually change minds as

42:22

there are different methods of activism and stuff like

42:24

that i'm the one thing

42:27

that oppose resistance is really trying to do as well as

42:29

helping women and with all kind

42:31

of baby bosses games is that we're

42:33

doing regular brownies outside sentiment

42:35

and all around different places in london which is

42:37

kind of again reach for speak with the

42:39

public and the what the the way that with

42:41

and of doing it is what kind of new jersey

42:44

portion of the whole that specific

42:46

aspect of it for free council and

42:48

the money we had a few weeks that was on collect

42:50

the bushes nobody pro

42:52

life pro choice is going to and read with

42:54

coalesced abortion suffered enough room

42:57

to be not whoa you never gave cristobal huet

42:59

neither do with none none of the week let's

43:01

see how we kind of maybe work on this and

43:03

wept for a better left

43:06

was in for women and a kind of

43:08

picking it the kinetic like that my

43:10

baby steps kind of thing

43:11

yeah and yet know that that's

43:13

really wise because it's

43:15

, issue that can be so hard to find

43:17

common ground yeah on

43:20

especially

43:22

it easier find common ground with people who

43:24

are

43:25

that same begrudgingly

43:27

pro abortion rights

43:29

the

43:30

rather than the ones who were just like hardline

43:33

yes because people people who are hard line

43:37

the

43:38

in favor of abortion or as of people who are hard

43:41

line against it so

43:43

hard to thread that needle because

43:46

it's just like you know if this person is saying

43:48

like begins at conception it's wrong the taken

43:50

innocent human life completely

43:53

unnecessary early or any

43:55

other person saying nope they should be no

43:57

restrictions whatsoever

44:00

any point anytime any

44:02

reason

44:03

no questions asked

44:05

like i've , had these

44:07

conversations before and

44:10

i'm you know those are the ones where i'm just like man

44:12

will like i will i hope your heart

44:14

changes so thin that yeah because

44:16

i don't even know

44:19

what you say to people can i think

44:22

that anything is the those types of people i genuinely

44:25

think they must have had like had direct abortion

44:27

experience stop me from what

44:29

i've seen from the people the

44:31

high know and how long i've been doing this

44:33

people who are in but pro bush would

44:36

the night the humanity or you know

44:38

everything like that they have usually been

44:41

an additional people should industry all

44:44

the guys who i find out soon

44:46

as the months loud about

44:48

this to movies and they

44:50

pressured side to having it you know said

44:53

that if you don't and the i mean leave or something

44:55

the men his avoided responsibility

44:58

hi get in a partner pregnant and and seventy

45:00

six have an abortion they're the ones

45:02

who have

45:03

really released via

45:06

the ocean so i think i've had a personal

45:08

experience and that's why so did to get through to

45:10

them

45:10

and that support that is rarely discussed

45:14

i mean women i don't know any you can know in

45:16

the usa women are more likely to be

45:18

pro life than men and if you think

45:21

about that for a couple seconds it shouldn't

45:23

really shocking really

45:25

shockey so the

45:27

you know men are not gonna say this out loud

45:30

light coming back to this point of the

45:32

denial of responsibility and accountability

45:35

there are plenty of guys out there who

45:37

want to have an out

45:40

for

45:41

their actions and they don't wanna be

45:43

on the hook instead of being more responsible

45:46

and accountable

45:47

upstream

45:49

though that you don't even

45:50

the encounter

45:52

this scenario they

45:55

would like to be able to you know use

45:57

women like disposable tissues and

46:00

the you know i i the evidence

46:02

and no one wants to put , forward

46:04

that way and i'm not saying that every that every

46:06

guy's position but

46:09

those people are out there and so they'll champion

46:11

themselves as you know pro women and

46:13

for women's rights mean isn't pro that's

46:16

but there is a

46:19

you know there there is a clear and obvious

46:22

ins incentive there them

46:24

to have that position to let alone the fact it it's

46:26

that easy ones old socially it wins you the virtue

46:28

points you can be a look i'm a champion for

46:30

women whatever i

46:33

mean being being pro

46:35

life being a pro life man

46:38

there's not really much of an yet

46:40

isn't isn't it is no

46:43

there there's not much of an incentive the an was

46:45

actually you know it's simply just let man i think

46:47

this i think wrong

46:49

yeah i know really wrong like i'd there's

46:51

no i , nothing

46:54

to gain engine

46:56

know there's know nefarious thing it's and

46:58

it's so funny when they try to do the how are you know

47:00

you want to control a psych will

47:02

if

47:03

if there was this nefarious goal to

47:05

control women and to force them into do this

47:08

and that it's like well again why would this

47:10

be the only issue people

47:12

feel that passionately about like if

47:14

someone was saying that and then they were also advocating

47:17

for like all of this you know removing

47:19

the right to vote enforcing this and for then

47:21

okay maybe that first i've never i've never encountered

47:23

someone like this then there's a ferret and okay

47:25

this person actually wants to control women but

47:28

it's just like know like you can do what you want you

47:30

can even become tattoo your fucking face if you

47:32

want you can do that can do like where

47:34

do you think that i might even to go completely silly or harmful

47:37

the

47:38

just life

47:39

you don't go anywhere

47:45

again the kind of pro

47:47

choice movement

47:49

don't realize that is actually really

47:51

misses any such things and like i work

47:53

for place abortion helpline am

47:55

i going to stop with them and

47:58

said them

47:59

the people ,

48:02

color have been collapsed into

48:04

motion really have

48:06

, so much more often

48:08

than people think you know the pro choice is

48:10

the picked out like this is an easy decision

48:13

for women else you know when a woman had abortions

48:15

she's really i thought i had a she decided that's

48:17

exactly what she was death scene of trust

48:19

the mean not even majority of take

48:22

a hit

48:25

the reasons why people the abortion

48:27

the only thieving top the possible supplements

48:29

or not and will say oh i was

48:32

studying and i didn't have any more to help needs

48:34

oh my partners that he would leave me oh

48:36

my korea would have fallen down the drain

48:39

the even father's in some cases

48:41

i'm not exactly yeah it's

48:43

it's it's you know there were sense if it's not a

48:45

month amid a family member upon collecting

48:48

his pressure from society where again

48:50

sliced being a mother and

48:53

trying to be successful

48:55

or three years he just can't do it which

48:57

is so wrong to tell women

48:59

it's just was yeah you can do

49:01

it so does it so disempowering

49:05

it's , it's a

49:07

it's such an annoying just

49:11

a good is that it an annoying conversation

49:13

because people come at it from

49:15

such different

49:16

you know and i can get i can get the different perspectives

49:19

and and angles and i do my best

49:21

to empathize with positions

49:23

even if they're com pooley leave

49:26

the opposite my own

49:28

and i can at least i can see where they come

49:30

from but i do feel like with

49:32

this issue and issue don't i don't like to just call

49:35

people out i don't i

49:37

don't want to be i don't like to be that guy who just assume

49:39

that everyone who has a different opinion to me as

49:41

his brain washed or the victim of a sigh up or something

49:44

but in this case like knowing

49:46

the propaganda around this and how it's run

49:48

for decades and some of the narratives and messaging

49:50

and the phrasing the phrasing so i'm like this is

49:52

really deceptive like people have there

49:55

are a lot of people are millions and

49:57

millions of people maybe billions to

49:59

have been

49:59

the

50:01

on this issue and another

50:03

thing that makes it clear is when

50:05

the you you can always tell

50:07

when someone's argument

50:10

or position is not very strong babe

50:12

a stop to that to meet to me there's

50:15

three there's three big ones number one is complete

50:17

unwillingness to discuss it

50:20

number two is relying completely

50:22

on euphemisms

50:23

you never wanting to talk

50:25

clearly and directly so everything

50:28

just becomes a euphemism i

50:30

to pitch ways you know her

50:32

body reproductive justice

50:36

health care they just never

50:38

wanting to just say

50:41

exactly what any why i support a women's

50:43

right to choose what

50:45

is i mean she's my eyes of yeah

50:47

like so do i just i don't

50:49

support abortion like a sport people's rights to

50:51

choose many things but

50:53

not literally everything so

50:56

it's all it's all euphemisms or

50:59

then the other one is is censorship right

51:01

wanting to censor or wanting to just

51:03

wanting to avoid looking

51:05

at the actual issue

51:08

not wanting to see what you're

51:10

actually advocating for

51:12

not wanting you know and and and

51:14

i see that happening a lot because i

51:16

think the i do genuinely believe that when

51:19

you look at the facts when you look at a biology and you think about

51:21

like you know what what i would consider pretty standard

51:23

morals and ethics the prolife

51:25

position to me is me is lot stronger

51:28

if a lot stronger it doesn't rely on euphemism

51:30

it doesn't rely on censoring

51:33

it doesn't rely on not a know you want

51:35

to have you watch you want to have the conversations

51:37

because when you do you can look

51:39

at the facts of look at the fat the facts are on my side

51:41

you're saying okay this is just as a parasite

51:44

or com says okay let's let's actually look let's

51:46

look at pictures or let's look at began to

51:48

what it is are you say yeah right you know

51:50

i know know that on say they don't see the picture you don't see

51:52

the result of than abortion

51:54

gosh i am they deaf deaf they didn't even

51:56

want to see that's the i know i don't people who have

51:58

shifted

51:59

wrongly more in the pro life directions just from

52:02

seeing it just being oh my gosh like i didn't even

52:04

know

52:05

what are you don't some people are you know like the

52:08

you know in a surgical abortion not a like or if

52:10

the baby apart limb from limb and across the brandis

52:12

and ally on know they come on man i've been on do

52:14

you like

52:15

read been doing this is a standard

52:18

procedure of apathy by the southern alex

52:20

do i have not even know that

52:23

will name right yeah i just know about like

52:25

the bill version in the very early stages but

52:27

they'll do i even know that there

52:30

like that barbaric i didn't even know that that

52:32

yeah

52:34

yeah i don't know and

52:36

again again it's the kind of censorship when he said

52:39

of of everything and sure the closing

52:41

everything and succumbing italy's nice

52:43

words and free lunch will these amazing

52:45

beautiful graphics of you know

52:47

reproductive rights that's a big in iraq and

52:49

as that again is an oxymoron yeah

52:52

i know what is really isn't that no no

52:56

no no it's like an attack

52:58

on reproductive rights is something like china's

53:00

old one child policy yeah cocky i

53:02

have like different yeah yes that

53:04

that's an at an attack on reproductive rights

53:06

is determining

53:09

how many children you must have or

53:11

can have

53:13

or like actually new

53:15

neural neutering people are some that

53:17

would be an attack on republican everyone everyone's

53:19

got a right to reprieve yeah that's

53:21

not that's not the debate does not the question

53:24

you can have as many children as you

53:26

want you can women are you can choose not to have

53:28

children don't want or like

53:31

that's not the issue but if you've already

53:33

reproduced

53:35

you know don't you know your kid

53:37

and you know what's weird you know what's even weirder about this

53:39

whole thing is that were

53:41

talking about

53:44

if not just that it's babies and kids

53:46

it's the it's that is that it's your

53:48

baby mrs your or this is your

53:50

own offspring right so

53:52

we recognize and society

53:55

that the parents

53:57

as a parent parents have a specific

53:59

and unique and special responsibility

54:02

to their own children you have respond to be

54:04

for your own children the you don't have

54:06

for others right if i'm not responsible

54:09

beyond the general

54:12

laws and human decency i'm not responsible

54:14

for other people's children are not responsible

54:17

for for feeding them are looking after i can't get

54:19

thrown in jail for neglecting someone

54:21

else is child because it's not my job if

54:24

you have you have a son or daughter who's

54:26

a toddler and you go up partying and you

54:28

leave them and they start or like the you're

54:30

on hooked that your child

54:33

on though that's what that's the

54:35

whole thing that also makes an audit weird to me because

54:37

it's like you realize this is your is

54:39

your child this isn't isn't a random

54:42

child baby is not the right now even a random

54:44

human being the your own

54:47

child your own flesh and blood your own

54:50

una whether or not you can see

54:52

it or you choose to recognize it as

54:54

such like that's

54:55

that's what we're dealing with so that that to me even

54:58

makes it that even makes a deeper

55:00

because one

55:02

a why why am i the one who

55:06

is fighting or and your child

55:08

about yeah

55:10

you know you shouldn't be like that and it's

55:12

kind of skyn a humans have an instinctual

55:15

like it's ingrained in them once

55:17

you pet the children

55:19

who pretend that offspring and in

55:21

that's a betrayal that

55:24

unit abortion industry and what is pushing

55:26

it to go against the very thing

55:28

that's rooted in mothers and fathers

55:31

to what to do for their children it's

55:33

really sad

55:33

yeah and it it's interesting because

55:35

i'm i'm in the us right now and

55:38

i mean it's everything ,

55:40

happened in the uk i'm in the in the us it's just like

55:42

ten x and this and

55:44

been out of the big conversation with the reason

55:47

fall liberal versus wade then

55:51

you know but by then no

55:53

just to just before that it was there

55:55

were there was this school shooting and in texas

55:57

asked and all of the

56:00

energy all the can we need to do everything

56:02

i mean think back to call we know if it saves one life

56:05

we need to do everything to protect the children

56:07

and save the children we need to do this and and

56:10

then a moment later people

56:12

are on this the same people often

56:14

times in many cases are back on

56:16

the street or back protesting

56:19

for the right to kill

56:21

their children and

56:24

people don't like me saying that but

56:26

that's what it is so

56:28

you're pretty test it i

56:30

just don't think that i

56:33

don't think it's tenable for a society

56:35

i do i do don't they get it's tenable to have

56:38

this like

56:40

okay we really really like nothing

56:42

is more important than the preservation of human

56:44

life and lesson that it's in the same

56:46

hospital you can have a twenty three

56:48

week year twenty three week in

56:51

front premature baby being

56:53

delivered and the nurses and doctors are doing

56:55

everything everything

56:58

for that child to survive everything

57:00

and then

57:02

child the same age twenty three weeks

57:05

gestation

57:06

the world's just nuke guillaume

57:08

zoc amount

57:09

the emblem

57:10

and

57:12

all good and ah yes that's that that guy

57:14

like that to me i'm just like there's

57:17

that doesn't make sense yeah that doesn't

57:19

make sense like these are both

57:22

it can be oh yeah this one is a baby this one's a human

57:24

life this what they write and and and all

57:26

this one's to stir up a clump of cells doesn't

57:28

matter his life as it is like that

57:31

i've i'm making and

57:34

then another thing that's interesting is interesting is act

57:36

like it so it's merely a religious issue

57:38

and deploy the people who invoke

57:40

religion most though are not the pro

57:42

life people right it

57:45

is it's framed as if all like you are we haven't

57:47

made an african religious argument here yes

57:49

i'm thought about

57:52

it but it's but it's like

57:53

it painted as i've always just these you

57:56

know these christian extremists they they want to do

57:58

this and and it's like you're the one bringing and

57:59

religion i i mention i'm not i'm

58:02

talking about biology that

58:04

ethics i'm talking about just pure rational

58:07

thinking and and logic is

58:10

, logical to say that this twenty

58:12

three week old baby is a baby

58:14

and as human life in their life should be preserved

58:16

and protected by the law and this one is

58:18

just a com to cells or a parasite or blastocyst

58:21

or whatever the know that's just to be

58:23

discarded of if you don't want no

58:25

one in the world asks a pregnant

58:28

woman how her fetus is doing or how

58:30

her a list of no one no

58:32

one has ever been to a fetus

58:34

shower before is not

58:36

a thing

58:37

i'm not going other things to me as well so

58:39

i'm i'm

58:40

me almost nine weeks pregnant right there

58:43

and yeah and

58:46

as as direct oh yeah my parasites

58:48

great

58:50

oh

58:52

my god the people i know who and agreed with bush

58:55

is a fucking questions

58:56

the course of ,

59:01

congratulating me for

59:03

i've i've i've heard women say that it's

59:05

a human if if the woman once it

59:07

was , ad and the again where this is just

59:10

going back to magic territory like if anything's

59:12

a religion that's a religion comes that's that's

59:14

a fluffy felt like of brawl i that is

59:16

not a biologically

59:19

know intellectually bow

59:21

and are not always like this that is amazing

59:23

ivy a publicity crazy is

59:25

that yeah i'm basing some husband and wife

59:27

and how you pass me feel about them is just not

59:30

how we should be doing and i'm again

59:32

and the other thing is with you know decided a constant

59:35

a fluke it's and talking to a quality

59:37

and equal rights still

59:40

discriminate event shillings in the womb

59:42

oh and

59:45

the thing is matt and you know he sits around

59:47

this conversation now is again there is there

59:49

are so many things that can be done

59:52

stream to

59:55

avoid this issue right i mean i've

59:57

told people before they are all your anti choice i'm like

59:59

no i'm

59:59

i'm pro choice i'm pro abstinence

1:00:02

contraception parenthood adoption

1:00:05

there's only one so called joyce

1:00:07

i have

1:00:08

a real moral issue

1:00:10

the that's it there there's

1:00:13

plenty of other ways billions and billions of people

1:00:15

around the world and managed managed to

1:00:17

go go through life without a you know

1:00:21

having and it's so like

1:00:24

it's it's not magic we we we go to school

1:00:26

we know biology know know how this process happens

1:00:29

men and women i'm not just again

1:00:31

i'm very careful not just to put this on women like men

1:00:33

like emails

1:00:34

yeah you know you know how it works you

1:00:36

know how this happens like on

1:00:39

so can we stop pretending

1:00:41

he then magically appear yeah

1:00:44

yeah that's another really annoying part of it because

1:00:47

then again people get bogged down in the weeds

1:00:50

and but if you don't think it's moral issue at

1:00:52

all then

1:00:55

whether someone has one abortion or

1:00:57

twenty abortions then i mean again

1:00:59

if someone's being intellectually consistent and they think

1:01:01

that there's no moral weight to it than it's like well we may

1:01:03

snow makes no difference like putting your

1:01:05

toenails but again i don't think many people

1:01:07

really hold that position because they themselves

1:01:09

do do know deep down that is not

1:01:12

a stream the not is not

1:01:14

a good thing

1:01:16

and there were so there again you

1:01:18

know the pro-life position he's

1:01:20

very logically consistent the whole

1:01:23

product community agrees that human

1:01:25

life begins at fertilization whereas you

1:01:27

didn't the pro choice movement assume any

1:01:29

discrepancy comes a heartbeat on

1:01:31

that twenty bully about the but some people

1:01:33

think that you shouldn't about the same way some people think you

1:01:36

should you know that so many just things

1:01:38

that just don't add up it

1:01:41

kind of again i think it has to show the kind of

1:01:44

mental gymnastics

1:01:45

yeah yeah totally

1:01:48

that's insane and having it's footlights popular

1:01:51

every single day or logic saying

1:01:52

i

1:01:55

know why i admire you because i

1:01:57

don't have the i don't have become cincinnati

1:01:59

in weight into this conversation slice

1:02:02

once every once

1:02:04

every few weeks at most

1:02:07

the otherwise i just fall

1:02:09

go bananas

1:02:10

okay but not have something i know this

1:02:12

i'm when you've pushed us the can i ask

1:02:15

you something that i think this is very important

1:02:17

i'm big on this the other the you must

1:02:19

it's tough for

1:02:20

yes

1:02:21

yeah do you like never

1:02:24

have like this i'd amount of lead is that

1:02:26

an immunity but you know up in see the whole time

1:02:28

with right though with nine percent of the

1:02:31

he commanded it's high on the trains you

1:02:33

have moved urge

1:02:37

you

1:02:39

can you your path from the infamous in the a

1:02:41

bit more to the end of the day is a lot

1:02:43

of deficits and you to have so

1:02:45

many amazing i don't think my mom

1:02:47

is absolutely obsessed with you

1:02:50

are

1:02:50

but not

1:02:51

that was empty that says she always

1:02:54

use and that's how employed people

1:02:56

and yet if you're constantly chef yeah

1:02:59

it's like on this issue you

1:03:01

ever think that like many ship i think of it

1:03:04

hundred you know

1:03:06

that you posted about about it quite a lot

1:03:08

over the years yeah you how not

1:03:11

not to the degree of

1:03:13

you know someone who's

1:03:15

dedicated to this being their their primary

1:03:17

cause i'm but if but if

1:03:19

to say something i will i will

1:03:21

say it i also

1:03:23

i also just find it say

1:03:25

i'm again given

1:03:27

given the size of my audience and platform is

1:03:29

it say

1:03:33

it's also a matter of effectiveness

1:03:37

because i've found

1:03:40

my probably let you like yourself if i talk to

1:03:42

people in person

1:03:43

then in person

1:03:45

i'm way more likely to the

1:03:48

people's minds in positions where there are many

1:03:50

issues on twitter where i'm just like you know what

1:03:53

at this scale you

1:03:55

you it a conversation becomes essentially impossible

1:03:58

so i can put my daughter cracking put

1:04:00

my my view out there and even prefer

1:04:02

doing a podcast like this you know that of discussion

1:04:04

on on multiple podcast and this is just a better

1:04:07

is if they'd better platform for

1:04:09

this conversation where you've never i've

1:04:12

talked to someone on the complete of top the multiple

1:04:14

people actually on the on the other side

1:04:16

of this issue and you know had a whole one hour hour

1:04:18

and a half conversation about it

1:04:20

and to me that's a much more

1:04:23

effective okay you on know my does it look he had

1:04:25

my position

1:04:26

the want to know where it comes rom and you wanna because

1:04:28

be i know i know exactly what i'm going to get re

1:04:30

if i post on twitter i

1:04:32

can literally predicts the responses

1:04:34

and i'm gonna have to go back over and over

1:04:37

and over some of their response you can be completely

1:04:39

stupid and knapton at i need to explain

1:04:41

and explain and now spending the next week

1:04:43

having discussions with

1:04:45

and and my i don't even on change anyone's minds

1:04:48

here so

1:04:50

for me that's why i

1:04:53

have the approach that i do not just

1:04:55

not just on this one issue which i am passionate

1:04:57

about but on on some others because

1:04:59

i'm just like you know apt

1:05:02

any time this comes up it's

1:05:04

just it's not that i'm even concerned about

1:05:07

the criticism or whatever like game that

1:05:09

i love each other whatever that's not that's

1:05:11

another thing it's just like okay

1:05:14

honey there

1:05:15

what what is gonna be

1:05:17

in affective know what's

1:05:19

gonna be effective

1:05:21

and actually

1:05:23

change someone's my life i feel much better

1:05:26

i guy i have there's individuals have spoken to

1:05:28

even individual friends people i know

1:05:30

where have had this conversation over multiple

1:05:32

times over the course of time and i've actually

1:05:34

brought them over much

1:05:37

much either completely pro life

1:05:39

or to i like you know what

1:05:41

maybe they're like six weeks like max

1:05:44

really was maybe before they were like all

1:05:46

the way and now they're like okay you know what

1:05:49

learn more about this issue and

1:05:51

after a heartbeat

1:05:52

you know their position might be okay adding

1:05:54

before a heartbeat still may your

1:05:57

kind of gray whatever but

1:05:59

after that point they're like know obviously

1:06:01

that's the termination of human life and i'm

1:06:03

like okay that not all the

1:06:05

way but that's a significant

1:06:08

just and and at least there's been

1:06:10

that moral and ethical dilemma

1:06:13

you know you had to go through those weeds

1:06:16

in your own had and so on so i think i'm

1:06:18

i've been on social media even when it when it does come

1:06:21

up

1:06:23

that are that still does happen first for some

1:06:25

people

1:06:25

which is why i'll be all

1:06:28

about the or bring it up and once in awhile

1:06:30

i think it's good to restate my

1:06:32

position on certain issues

1:06:34

just so people are clear because i'm always

1:06:36

getting followers and a lot of people think you

1:06:39

know people say

1:06:40

oh okay i know your position

1:06:42

on this so therefore i probably know your position on that one

1:06:45

and i'm like no no no like i'm

1:06:47

i'm unapologetically pro life

1:06:49

and here's why whatever by

1:06:52

isis isis is this cycle

1:06:54

it's the ico and there's also the that the time

1:06:56

energy that the time factor the energies

1:06:58

i'll tell you another one where like i don't really

1:07:01

how abu i've learned that for

1:07:03

me personally

1:07:05

not really worth having of

1:07:07

the the debate and conversation on twitter

1:07:10

is like

1:07:12

that you does god exist

1:07:14

god exists nord like you know why

1:07:16

why do i have my billie side in

1:07:19

the real world

1:07:20

the dallas i'm i know a all our week we can

1:07:22

yeah god will touch but again

1:07:25

i'm just learn how gosh i ever read what

1:07:27

mean i'll never talk about it

1:07:28

by

1:07:29

i've had one that and it's rather than

1:07:31

for the next week for the next week

1:07:34

it's just like

1:07:36

people commenting for weeks on end i

1:07:38

then can't like

1:07:39

talk about other things or whatever because

1:07:41

like all the energy and time and i

1:07:43

might i want i might want to promote my book

1:07:45

or promote my music your lay i got an upcoming

1:07:48

event come out and i i'm not really trying

1:07:50

to have like of all

1:07:52

the energy anti going towards that so

1:07:55

it's it's a tricky balance

1:07:57

it's a tricky balance yeah though

1:07:59

but yeah i mean i'll on

1:08:03

on whatever issue i'm ,

1:08:05

to talk about any meal yes guess

1:08:07

it's just yeah at

1:08:09

this yeah at the i've learned is my as my audience

1:08:12

has grown because my naturally mild is usually

1:08:14

a lot smaller and when my audience

1:08:16

was smaller it was easier

1:08:17

the

1:08:19

go have these conversations and debates

1:08:21

and the you know yet go into it more now

1:08:23

it's just like over my

1:08:25

my tweets reach you like but once we and or

1:08:28

oh reach three million people yeah and

1:08:30

now i'm trying to have a one vs three million

1:08:32

conversation

1:08:34

about what we've just talked about and yeah

1:08:37

i'll , be

1:08:40

lot of people get so i

1:08:42

get a get they are like

1:08:44

i'll look literally a week later and people are still going

1:08:46

at it and now i'm and england is

1:08:49

a his eyes when asked think that we are

1:08:52

not have was that we was that production

1:08:54

to that shift anyone's mind i don't know

1:08:57

the an affair know that is up

1:08:59

to the exact

1:09:00

yeah

1:09:02

yeah but we have voices like yours and

1:09:04

dumb

1:09:06

eleven respect what you are doing and i

1:09:08

you know you've you've you've got my you've

1:09:10

, my support implicitly and explicitly so

1:09:13

eat him before we jump off this where can people find

1:09:16

you online

1:09:16

i say we have a website

1:09:18

abortion resistance so old that uk

1:09:21

and we have every social media

1:09:23

platform an abortion resist said

1:09:25

people wanna go follow of the as a family

1:09:27

this am a thank you so much

1:09:29

for having young and next have you in london

1:09:32

i'm getting what you know i can come to any occurrences

1:09:35

made it necessary to say

1:09:37

thank you thank you never easy