0:19

ladies and gentlemen boys and girls around the world

0:21

i would like to welcome you back to the real talk

0:23

with zoo be podcast on

0:25

today's episode i have got on not

0:28

just one but two fantastic

0:31

guess to very very smart guys

0:33

these are the co authors of

0:35

the new book the on communist

0:38

manifesto and it is mark

0:40

moss and alex maskey walk into the

0:42

show

0:43

that day

0:44

they really are loving and out talking with yeah

0:46

because i like wise man great to see you both

0:49

so mark i know you've been on

0:51

my show before alex i've been on your

0:53

podcast by this is your first if i am on real

0:55

talk with zoo be so if you can both

0:57

just introduce yourselves to the audience

1:00

tell them a little bit about you and what it is

1:02

that each of you does

1:05

yeah i mean i'll go first i mean i've just been up

1:07

in l a lifelong investor career investor

1:10

for , last seven years have been kind of creating content

1:12

around market financial markets markets

1:15

really gonna breaking down the difference is why they're breaking down

1:17

most of my continent is based around based

1:20

and and kind of along theme of fix the money fix the world

1:22

and so look in a broken incentives and things

1:24

like that and so just trying

1:26

to cannot figure out why the heck things are so

1:29

messed up how we navigate them and more importantly

1:31

how we get through this and we get have

1:33

have hope on the other side of that so

1:35

that's how we focus on and of for sir

1:38

now writing books i guess as well

1:42

you say that with so much as

1:45

an earlier books girlfriend that i'm

1:48

talking on it just got back i just got back late

1:50

last night it was miami so do a

1:52

lot a lot of teaching on teaching talking

1:54

on the first time i've put together

1:57

alex watches himself watches a writer as

1:59

kind of my first

1:59

foray into publishing something a little

2:02

bit new for me but , i

2:04

can be analysed yeah i'm said

2:06

i'm sort of mourn lifelong entrepreneur

2:09

more than anything else serve since i i

2:12

out a university at like eighteen nineteen

2:14

years old sort of self made self

2:16

, last money made money lost money and it

2:18

was kind of in twenty sixteen where i fell

2:21

down the the bitcoin rabbit hole

2:23

and found something that i

2:25

found really

2:28

interesting across

2:30

also to dimensions philosophy

2:32

angle the economics angle the

2:35

i'm i'm five always been really interested anthropology

2:37

interested history so you know i've just found so

2:39

many things and the more some

2:42

the more it sucked me in the more it's that

2:45

me interested in all these wide

2:47

ranging topics such as i've dug

2:49

into those i've always written

2:52

in private and and twenty sixteen

2:54

i started a blog and i

2:56

just started writing about entrepreneurship

2:58

and bitcoin and you can kind of see the history of my

3:00

blog it started really heavy entrepreneurship

3:02

and then went into bitcoin and then windsor tunnel a

3:04

radical bitcoin and then you know when into

3:07

like these days people they're

3:10

kind of know my were hiding from hiding

3:12

it's gonna like reading something

3:15

or someone sitting over the head with the hammer they six

3:17

and i'm six yes and kind

3:19

of yes a of closed entrepreneurial chapter

3:21

of my life at the moment and i'm

3:24

gonna double down on gonna creation

3:26

primarily the podcast

3:28

which as you said you're on with me and

3:30

and riding and yet this is the first book hopefully

3:32

one of many on i want to catch up to use of

3:34

the needle a specific awesome

3:38

and you guys are both real

3:40

like and you very strong

3:42

and passionate advocates for

3:45

the coin so two

3:47

questions and you can answer them simultaneously

3:50

or each of you can take one but have

3:52

number one what is it that drew

3:54

you into bitcoin

3:56

so strongly and what

3:58

is it that makes you so passionate

4:01

about it because having pad

4:03

private conversations and public conversations

4:05

with both of you it's beyond

4:07

hey cool this is an interesting technology

4:09

or hey cool you know i can make some

4:12

money and a market or something like that it's

4:14

a lot deeper it's a lot more philosophical

4:16

the goes i think beyond just the mere

4:18

economics of it so can

4:20

you explain that position especially

4:22

to someone who's listening to this was grub probably

4:25

heard of bitcoin by it hasn't

4:27

gone that hasn't gone down that rabbit hole

4:31

then i'm lucky winners yoga has ah

4:33

yes so you know for me i

4:36

i grew up in a kind of conservativehome

4:38

my parents were very politically am

4:40

active with safe politics is still

4:42

something to discuss around our tables are kind of grew up

4:44

in our my grandfather will were to their my father's

4:46

vietnam vet i just figured i'd go to war that was

4:48

just got a path i was on i'm so very

4:51

patriotic you know very tuned in to the to

4:53

politics as

4:55

a kid grown up in texas so you can understand how

4:57

that goes on and so you

4:59

know i kind a group that way am i became

5:01

an investor read out of high school didn't go to college

5:04

and just started the

5:06

i got right in real states or by and building businesses

5:09

had a couple high value exits forty five hundred exits

5:11

made a lot of money i thought i was really smart

5:14

and i was pretty good at making money in two thousand

5:16

eight it i completely wiped out and

5:18

that's because i didn't understand that there was this whole

5:21

financial system that had

5:23

this control over my life the i had

5:25

no control over and i had no visibility

5:28

to it and it does the out

5:30

of sight out of mine doesn't work like the us is computers

5:32

had the samples to get eaten and that's what happened to me i wasn't

5:34

paying attention than that and so after

5:37

that after two thousand that happened ah my

5:39

by busy got wiped out how to find a rebuild myself

5:41

find got very disillusioned with a system once with

5:43

started digging into digging understand what was going on

5:45

to see at money system

5:47

that the central bankers used to treat

5:49

booms and busts they pump much money

5:52

in the markets boom they suck

5:54

they money back out the markets bust and they

5:56

have this control over our lives getting

5:58

sucked then make us lose or money

6:00

they buy it all cheap and i'm on the back

6:02

up cetera so i learn about this i became very

6:04

disillusioned with the system and

6:07

i was kind of on a path of just try to become

6:10

rambo i'm a man on his own a lone wolf

6:12

or an island right like i'm just gonna go take care

6:14

of me on my god i don't care about anything else

6:16

ah america be a freedom fighter that god is

6:18

good disappear down and in central america

6:20

surf and that on the beach and

6:23

it was our disillusioned because there was no

6:25

chance to fight back there was no

6:27

way we would ever overturn the system

6:29

that was there to entertain i was in

6:31

the process of setting up offshore bank accounts

6:33

in panama moving money out of the country club want to get

6:35

money out of the banking system and i took

6:38

another look at decline as i was gonna same

6:40

thing i can get money out of the banking system which would us

6:42

trying to do so i did but as i

6:44

started to dig in a little bit more i

6:46

realize we finally have

6:49

a tool that we can win with we finally

6:51

have hope because i believe

6:53

in i'm sure alex agrees we agree that if we could fix

6:56

the money we fix the world so if we're the good giant

6:58

oak tree with a ten thousand leagues and every leave with a

7:00

problem that we haven't societies eight at

7:02

the bottom of that treats its one at

7:04

the root since the money printer that the central

7:06

banks used to distort everything and

7:08

there's only one way to defeat that money printer that

7:11

we have right now and as bitcoin now i

7:13

would ask questions not decoy than what but that's what

7:15

gives me hope and that's why i'm passionate about i believe

7:17

that that's the only option we have to change

7:19

the system that we have i believe it will work

7:22

and so instead of sitting of sitting place of fear

7:24

and despair i have hope because we

7:26

actually have a tool to

7:29

the your then what about you alex yes

7:31

, as was listening to mock than

7:33

others can is going

7:36

down the unlike

7:38

my memory and thinking about what

7:40

got me into their coin and and i think being

7:42

around it sorta like five six years now

7:46

i can probably draw two words what

7:48

one is responsibility and number two

7:50

isn't is a word call contra plants

7:52

so i'll explain what that means in a second

7:55

but to me i started calling bitcoin a

7:57

responsibility go up technology

7:59

so you know boys call it number go up

8:01

technology but for me what

8:03

i find fascinating about bitcoin is that they're

8:06

going to metaphysical and philosophical

8:08

here but the quinn maps to

8:10

reality in

8:13

a way that nothing else really does

8:15

like the three things that we have

8:17

to work with the civilizational

8:19

in reality and life is like we have time

8:23

energy and scarce resources and they're all kind

8:25

of fixed quantities in a sense and and

8:27

what we do as human beings as we we

8:29

take the chaos of life those

8:33

three elements in we transform them into something

8:35

of a greater order and then we

8:37

and we continually do that that that's what we do and

8:42

there is no in life does no rewind

8:44

button like a few in that process

8:46

of doing something if you mess it up on

8:49

you you pay the consequence like if you going

8:52

you know

8:53

like we're , about jackson

8:55

a to before at either to the gym

8:58

i'm not gonna get sent right get

9:00

sent if i want to get fit i need to go to the gym like

9:02

if if i jump off a cliff you're

9:05

not gonna die on my behalf money

9:08

and the economic system works in a strange way

9:11

where the people who are making the mistakes and the

9:13

people who doing nothing are effectively leaching

9:16

wilson resources from everybody else like we've

9:18

like we've detached responsibility

9:21

and consequence from action and money

9:23

is supposed to be the the mechanism the a

9:25

which we measure a human action

9:28

responsibility resources i'm

9:30

energy and or the sort of stuff that is is massive detachment

9:33

between the metaphysical nature of what money

9:35

is and the physical nature of reality

9:37

and and i think that tether is something

9:39

to do with consequences responsibility so

9:42

i've always been a big responsibility advocate

9:45

like i moved that a home when i was young at nobody

9:47

help me i had to figure it all out and

9:49

i think that just that responsibility

9:52

component or that consequence component of them

9:54

have become really drew me and then that other

9:57

word which i mention contra plant which is a

9:59

word that congress

10:01

recently and i don't even know if it's actually a word

10:03

like i heard on some psychologists is talking

10:05

about a bit i guess you can tell what it means is

10:07

the opposite to com plants and

10:10

, way i've tried to define it is on is

10:12

that it's kind of active noncompliance

10:15

and the on the surface

10:18

the

10:20

kind of defines me in a way because

10:22

like i'm very like the word compliance

10:24

just drives me crazy because i just feel like

10:27

that's just you know what the lemmings in the drones

10:29

do and we seen a lot of that obviously of the last

10:31

two years so it's reminds me of that i think

10:33

it's a gandhi saying like civil disobedience

10:35

is is a virtue in the face of tyranny right

10:38

leg you need to like push back but

10:40

it actually contra plants goes even deeper

10:42

to me is that like if you look at life

10:45

and entropy entropy is

10:47

this thing this this force that

10:49

exists in the universe which drives order

10:52

back towards kelso like it's disorder and

10:55

, and in everything seems to be subject to

10:57

entropy the only thing we

10:59

know of that seems to go

11:01

counter to entropy is life

11:04

so in a sense life is different

11:07

entropy life is an entrepreneur itself

11:09

like it doesn't just complain like you know

11:11

dissolve into nothingness like life seems

11:13

to push back against this

11:16

universal force of entropy sorts of me

11:19

just want to get want jump in real quick when you say entropy

11:21

what precisely do you mean there because i don't think

11:23

everyone will be familiar with that term

11:25

the and little bit her good

11:28

things if you build a house and you leave it alone fifty

11:30

years the falls apart

11:31

the girl was creative disorder get

11:34

and entropy kind of like a physical that

11:36

i mean it's it's basically the primary

11:38

physical laws that the universe is that

11:40

you ever everything trends towards a

11:43

disorder and it seems to me

11:45

from also says he notes

11:47

that in research and everything that life is the only thing

11:49

that seems the counter entropy and

11:52

it and whether you want to call that force

11:54

of life's you know god or goodness

11:56

sold the universal consciousness or

11:58

intelligence whatever would have the name we want to

12:00

give it it seems do that and and

12:02

bitcoin is this thing that embodies

12:05

contra plants i'm not

12:07

just as a as a been

12:09

a finger to the establishment but

12:11

it seems to be this thing that is alive

12:14

because it takes disorder

12:16

and chaos and turns it into this time chain

12:18

which is ordinary does the another there's another

12:20

there's lot of stuff but me if i'd

12:22

the boil it down to those two words responsibility

12:24

and contra plantlike they're kind

12:26

of to was that i'm trying to structure my life around

12:29

and i don't know of the anything that embodies

12:31

the elements in a more than bitcoin does

12:34

as it's an interesting perspective because

12:36

i think it's as i said before

12:38

it's way deeper than what

12:40

most people would think of if the

12:43

think of or hear about

12:45

bitcoin about bitcoin the typical view

12:48

his ear that it's it's

12:51

a scam and it's fake internet magic money

12:54

for that it's it's

12:56

, a slot machine right you you you put money

12:59

in number goes up

13:01

year that old out a hedge

13:03

against inflation you know like the delay sick

13:05

the narratives that float around but yeah it's

13:07

it's like when you like you sort of get bitten by the bugs

13:09

that to realize that so much more because

13:11

like money fundamentally is the most

13:14

important human technology like and and

13:16

like i don't think that this think that pure breed

13:18

less than a fantastic job with his arm with

13:20

his podcast asking that specific question

13:22

what is money and you know when you really

13:24

start to dig into that you realize money

13:26

is so much more profound than

13:29

the toilet paper that the government prince and

13:31

tells you is money right like fundamentally

13:33

speaking but he's like the it's

13:36

it's the language of value it is the language

13:38

of action it is the languages time

13:40

energy resources like that is fundamentally

13:45

it is the most important communication

13:47

medium like you don't have like would we as human

13:49

beings are social creature and the

13:51

way we manage social

13:53

interactions of scale is biased somehow

13:56

codifying our time and energy and bitcoin

13:58

is like perfect in that

13:59

and

14:01

air before the on it as for

14:03

and just just gonna put a bow on that i mean

14:05

it's them to to the to the question you're asking

14:07

to be is that the problem that we see you see

14:10

all the time is that people don't take

14:12

the time to think through the things i

14:14

can understand what they really are people

14:16

are very quick to grab onto a headliner a sound bites

14:19

but didn't take the time to kind of break that down and understanding

14:22

of course back to where alex assange money

14:24

so the hum is

14:26

so deep that most you haven't really taken the time

14:28

to think about what money and that like a dollar in my pocket

14:31

but to to the point alex makes they don't really understand

14:33

the importance and how that works and

14:35

how it organizes people and how it allows

14:37

us to specialize or labor and man

14:39

scarce resources all these things and so they haven't

14:42

taken haven't tender really understand that to they

14:44

can't think about how it distorts and

14:46

causes all the problems that we have gonna have gonna to

14:48

what i said and so most people

14:50

to your point i just think hey can i get rich they

14:52

don't understand why like

14:54

keeps getting harder for them they don't understand why

14:57

they have to work more hours and they used to that understand

14:59

why they're forty like going down the

15:02

is a depressant i'm done i'm to dig into the things

15:04

you have to spend some time

15:06

yeah most definitely and i love what you said about

15:09

responsibility as well because as

15:11

i've said many times say

15:13

both publicly and in private conversations

15:16

private think in the

15:18

modern western world in our

15:21

respective countries i think the

15:23

crux of a lot of problems here's

15:26

the denial of personal

15:29

responsibility and accountability

15:31

this goes across virtually

15:33

every every social cultural

15:35

political issue and one of the biggest

15:37

problems is that when

15:39

people refuse to take

15:42

personal responsibility or deny

15:44

it not only do they themselves individually

15:47

potentially suffer but

15:50

also the you

15:52

give more and more room for the

15:54

state the government to to step

15:56

in and play daddy and play

15:58

mommy create more

16:00

and more and more rules as we sat

16:03

in the past two and a half years cover

16:05

your face do this stay at home state

16:07

literally to be grounded people states stay states

16:09

home don't go outside to help you can't

16:11

see your friends your friends you see your

16:13

family you can't do this you must take

16:16

this you must do that it was

16:18

you know i think our on our side we were simply

16:20

say hey like let people the

16:23

for you know we we we've had diseases around

16:26

people have their own family situation their own

16:28

individual situations not everybody's equal

16:30

risk so on and so forth also

16:32

actually trust human beings that we're

16:34

not going around trying to kill

16:36

each other i've generally live my whole life believing

16:39

that no one is gonna intentionally

16:41

try to in fact me with

16:43

a disease if i choose to go out you know what i might

16:45

catch a cold or my get a flu occasionally

16:48

just because i'm around a lot of people and

16:50

hey that's just happens right if you'd figure

16:52

in a car all the time every time you

16:54

get in a car we've non public transport you

16:56

accept there's a minute there's a very very

16:58

small risk that something could

17:00

go wrong as a tiny chance of an accident

17:03

or something if you're so scared that you never

17:05

wanna get you know there's people who on get in a plane

17:07

i actually know people who won't drive ah

17:09

because they're you know they they're afraid of getting

17:12

in an accident and it's like you know i support

17:14

that right but you're going to be limiting

17:17

your own life so

17:19

i think it's so interesting that you brought up that responsibility

17:22

factor because it's something i see people

17:24

permanent legit just constantly running

17:26

away from and denying and

17:29

a big part of my own messages trying to

17:31

encourage people to take

17:33

that responsibility

17:35

yeah i think

17:37

the same thing was i just for second so

17:39

am i was listen to are oppressed and piss

17:41

talking last night and he was looking at the the

17:43

financial situation that we're in today versus

17:45

the one that we're in in the forties which a lot of people

17:47

compared the situation going into in the forties

17:50

and then in the forties we had food rationing things like

17:52

that and damn they're asking

17:54

them like to do think this thing is

17:56

different than it was back then and

17:58

an answer was this time was going to

17:59

the way different because the people the

18:02

culture is different so back

18:04

there in the forties the people i just come through the great

18:06

depression and they were all responsible

18:08

for themselves they took care

18:10

of their food they rash and themselves they

18:12

knew they had to say they knew had they had

18:14

work harder but today the culture is

18:16

different when our ones like hey i need us

18:18

to me for my gas and i needed to me for my

18:21

my kids and so the culture has completely changed

18:24

as then he asks of why as the culture change

18:26

so much and then i would say well

18:28

done in a in a business i know we're

18:30

all business people here alex is really good with

18:32

the company and courtroom things that dazzle and a business

18:35

you create culture so it's like an attitude

18:37

in the company as typically set by the person

18:39

at the top so with the like the the fish

18:41

sticks on the head down to the percent the top sets the

18:43

culture and we either that in as

18:45

days with founding fathers that sacrifice

18:47

their lives for a future people

18:50

we had immigrants come to this country sacrifice their lives

18:53

for their future generations but today at the top

18:55

we have people who only think for themselves

18:58

all they're trying to do is make themselves rich all

19:00

he can do think about that next decision and i believe

19:02

it's all because of the money system and they're all trying

19:04

to make themselves rich it's all about the money the

19:07

fia system enables that so back

19:09

to the situation of why have people lost

19:12

this responsibility how to get back to it well

19:15

yeah i

19:17

think i just wanted to add to the

19:19

responsibility peace to

19:21

both of what the the and marks it is

19:23

the on we had

19:25

this infantil as

19:27

asian of humanity right like in instead

19:30

of maturity the

19:32

end like maturity and responsibility

19:35

go hand in hand right you know you like

19:37

does this i think it's should peterson said dislike

19:39

you know you're an adult when no

19:42

one else can tell you what to do like or no one

19:44

else can make the decision for your i like it's when

19:46

you when you grow up your now responsible

19:49

and when you make the wrong decision like

19:51

his money that he ain't gonna come clean it up for

19:53

you and and what we've had as he

19:55

says movies that we've had we've basically

19:57

been infantilizing

20:00

humanity by are slowly but surely removing

20:03

agency from people and

20:06

you know that there's multiple reasons i mean i'm a

20:08

big critique

20:10

of the idea of democracy i think when you

20:13

when you give everybody the

20:15

ability to have to have across

20:18

what everybody else does you

20:20

create this lack of responsibility

20:23

because you know you're not you're know the

20:26

state becomes more responsible for you

20:28

but you've got your hands some and everyone else is pocket

20:31

and it kind of like eliminate

20:34

the line of the private property and it it

20:36

does all sorts of stuff so so without getting into the

20:38

the democracy rabbit hole basically you

20:41

know we've had those kind of social

20:43

political institutions insects humanity

20:46

and then that the money side of things is how

20:48

can you expect someone to be responsible and they

20:51

don't have any savings like in order to

20:53

to be responsible is you need

20:55

to save and like a savings is the

20:58

parish ah talks a lot about this is like it's

21:00

the cornerstone of civilization like in

21:03

the same way as we've been

21:05

able to build civilizations early

21:08

literature sit civilization the over

21:10

the of the centuries of the millennia is because we can

21:12

write something we can record it and

21:14

then we can know that knowledge

21:16

imagine if every time we

21:18

die like all of the knowledge dies with us society

21:21

will never progressed savings is the same

21:23

thing is like you build something he creates

21:25

some order out of the chaos

21:27

you

21:29

that is a form of savings is a form of capital

21:32

which you can pass on and then we build on

21:34

top of that that are you actually build a civilization

21:36

and when you erode all

21:38

of the savings what happens is society

21:41

must go back and it must actually

21:43

rip out the capital that you've built

21:46

so the quit own farrington

21:48

is like with strip mining all of the capital out of

21:50

civilization today and this always happens

21:52

like this you know my time to the book as like communism

21:55

always comes about towards the end

21:58

like sort of like peak prosperity p entitlement

22:01

peak lack of responsibility

22:03

of and what happens is you got these

22:05

people who like grew up entitled

22:08

you know thinking about rights instead of responsibility

22:10

right that's the other side of the ledger and

22:12

, they do is they actually suck

22:15

all of the wealth out of the the

22:17

system thinking that

22:19

it's just you know it comes from somewhere

22:22

not knowing that has been built over the last couple

22:24

thousand it is like with actually built this

22:26

damn foundation but there's no more productive

22:29

as normal flow coming in so the just stripping

22:31

the stock up until eroded

22:34

to the point where it collapses and in a we've seen

22:36

that with every single communist experiment every

22:39

time you eliminate private property

22:41

and you destroy the money and new homogenize

22:45

society an

22:48

end in a you we are again says i think

22:50

that responsibility pieces really put an

22:52

end it ties perfectly i think into a

22:54

big part of why wrote the book

22:55

yeah absolutely and i wanna get into why

22:57

you wrote that book in a in a second i just had

23:00

a thought as you are saying those things and something

23:03

i found for honestly for

23:05

his of i've actually thought about this since i was it was

23:07

a teenager and i've

23:09

noticed that not just in

23:12

one country but in

23:14

many many countries there

23:17

are two very obvious

23:19

subjects which are largely

23:21

lacking from the curriculum both at the

23:23

school level and the university level and

23:25

these are two things that every single

23:28

person has to deal with no

23:30

matter what job they go into

23:32

and no matter what they do in life

23:35

number one money and finances

23:38

right just how what that

23:40

first question what is money

23:43

ah how how does it work how is it

23:45

connected to labour how

23:48

does the actual financial system work what

23:50

work what our taxes what does a pr mean what

23:52

does a few i mean what's the morgue it's just this

23:55

money basic financial literacy

23:57

you don't learned in school you don't learn it in

23:59

unit that is not in the uk not

24:01

in the usa i'm alex you

24:03

originally from australia

24:06

for the average us yep yep

24:08

know it as a kid is not i mean it is like

24:10

that that i mean they do some basic financial

24:12

literacy but i mean it's like you know how to

24:14

put your money in the bank the are not much right

24:16

and member second topic is in

24:19

the jackson a son right the help health

24:21

nutrition and exercise a gets

24:24

a very very basic level

24:26

am i wrong mostly yeah

24:28

but i mean you'll you'll meet people who

24:30

are thirty years plus and

24:33

they don't understand even very very

24:35

basics of nutrition now i'm not saying

24:37

everyone is to be an exercise experts

24:39

nutrition expert but you should know that if

24:42

you consume more calories than you burn

24:44

on a consistent basis you will you

24:46

will gain weight and if you wanna lose weight

24:48

you need to add in invert that and

24:51

would accommodate at easy spend

24:54

more money than you make and save the

24:57

cs than your then you'll go into debt and

24:59

it's mind blowing how millions of people

25:01

don't even understand that very basic

25:03

concept and i'm

25:05

of the belief that that's not a mistake i

25:08

don't think that that can just be an error

25:10

and and omission i mean we learn about photosynthesis

25:13

we learn about the us a triceratops

25:15

in a brontosaurus we learn about

25:18

in school we are the abbey it abbey it

25:20

trigonometry as you go by taggers it's

25:23

something else some of these concepts might be useful

25:25

if you're going into certain areas but

25:28

i know a bunch of stuff that i learned from school

25:31

which i don't know at

25:33

what point in my life i'm

25:35

ever going to use that and then they stopped it's very

25:37

very valuable which i

25:40

didn't really start learning and diving into until

25:42

i was in my early early mid or even

25:44

late late twenties in certain cases

25:47

and and that's just because i myself

25:50

those to you know why i don't really understand

25:52

this topic well let me go then you go and

25:54

really learn about it right people don't learn

25:56

what what is compound interest rate people know nothing about

25:58

it most people don't invest as don't even know how

26:01

to they don't know what it means they have no knowledge

26:03

compound interest you explain it to be blunt wow

26:06

i've never i've never thought of that before

26:08

and it's just like wow

26:09

is that is that intentional?

26:11

but coming to there

26:21

be a revolution before the morning

26:24

now, that was a hundred years ago, imagine how

26:26

much worse it is today so to answer

26:28

your own is an or well

26:30

he told you a hundred years as if they knew

26:32

imagine today so i'll maybe

26:34

today

26:36

they're not same

26:39

kind of people so their revolution is, let's just

26:41

watch netflix your heirs one other

26:43

thing heirs one throw back at that

26:45

that the people shouldn't really needed all

26:48

of this is so complicated and

26:50

all man-made and all made up so

26:52

they can enrich themselves the average person need

26:55

to care as a way it works is that

26:58

i eat calories eat calories calories

27:00

from my body i expend energy that's my life

27:02

by as i go put then of the world and then i might

27:05

excess energy i put out into the world any to

27:07

build say that injury that's in my money

27:09

and that money should be able to buy me more

27:11

goods and services in the future the promise

27:13

the fanaticism that they have engineered today makes

27:15

me money my energy by me less

27:17

goods and services the future so it's

27:20

now forced me to become part

27:22

time brain surgeon trying to save the world and

27:24

part time investor now

27:26

the average retail person wasn't involved

27:29

in the stock market before the seventies most

27:31

people didn't care about that but because

27:34

our money is losing it's value so

27:36

fast or forced to be

27:38

com an investor

27:40

investor point we don't learn about compound interest vulnerable

27:42

we shouldn't need to i should be the best

27:45

brain surgeon the best cancer researcher the best whatever

27:47

i am and use all my brain

27:49

capacity because we need specialization this other

27:51

world advances i shouldn't i shouldn't have to be

27:53

a part time investor my money should

27:55

hold it's value and if is had

27:58

a sound money system none nobody

27:59

would need to learn about this and nobody would care about

28:02

this room when you say sound

28:04

money system what does what does that specifically

28:06

me

28:07

the mcafee

28:09

fact i can jump in says i just wanted i'll

28:12

i'll answer this question just cap

28:14

off what you said it's like deserves

28:17

this is epiphany i had a little while again i'm sure

28:19

this has gotta be a quote somewhere but it's like that

28:21

which is i'm simple is often not easy

28:23

i'm and you know that which

28:25

is i'm they

28:30

may be on butchering this but basically it's like that the concert

28:32

that the confusion between simple and easy

28:34

right it's like that , world is

28:36

like mired in complexity and as mark

28:39

was alluding to there's like people have

28:41

been forced like i i remember when

28:43

this really really dawned on me i was with my

28:45

mom at a cafe cafe four years

28:47

four and in a she's just a really

28:49

hard worker in a immigrants

28:52

came to stretch leo she's

28:54

not skilled in any way in the sense of like

28:56

an issue that she doesn't have a trade or or

28:58

or like some sort of scientists skill or anything she

29:01

came as a as an immigrant from a x

29:03

communist country and just basically

29:05

work in factories all eliason and

29:07

in a check out person isn't that any

29:10

rate she's just diligent and

29:12

she works hard and she saves and

29:14

i remember sitting there at this cat and she like

29:16

of saith unto moses lake but she's looking

29:18

at me and i could see the see the it like in her

29:20

eyes she's like they looking for help you the i

29:23

know to do that letter i letter i put

29:25

in the bank because like not

29:27

at the know it's not doing anything and the

29:29

know i'm scared like smart that

29:33

they will happen she's like i'm

29:35

you know my my brother's a moron you know seen their

29:37

gambling on the stock market all the time she's like you know

29:39

your brother's telling middle i give him all the money

29:41

and he's gonna make the money but last time we gave him money lost

29:43

the to like i don't know what to do and

29:45

i'll succeeding an arm and that it was kind of like

29:48

earliest on in my bitcoin journey like

29:50

to three isn't like it just

29:52

dawned meals like holy shit man like people

29:55

need to

29:58

people need to simply be able to say like

30:00

mark said like unit that does the

30:02

simpler it is the more robust

30:04

the system can be but we've created all of

30:06

this complexity that basically

30:09

scuse people towards

30:11

on either becoming part time

30:13

investors so they basically become gamblers they should

30:15

be missing the first place or because

30:18

they can't function at that game they become

30:20

consumers and those

30:22

who are person enough they still try

30:24

and save but they get decimated

30:27

because the savings after working

30:29

there also for ten years of worth less

30:31

it's like it's complete criminality

30:33

so address me crazy side anyway

30:36

side anyway of i'm i just wanted to make the difference the

30:38

differentiation between like simple and easy

30:41

having a sound money system is very simple

30:44

the it is like

30:46

and a fixed amount of money

30:48

the money maps directly to time and energy

30:52

it is immutable an irreversible

30:55

and you have something then

30:57

that from

31:00

from an individual perspective your goal is

31:02

to as marx said you'd be taking colors you

31:04

perform work you addicts as valley to the market

31:06

in the new store the product of your labor

31:09

in a unit that you can use later

31:12

and then as the collect

31:14

his productive capacity

31:16

of civilization increases

31:19

the purchasing power of each

31:21

unit of money also increases

31:24

so now your savings actually acts

31:26

like an eightieth on humanity will

31:29

take your savings will actually increase

31:31

over time and that is really important thing because

31:33

then people over time are

31:35

able to not just maintain their wealth

31:37

but that the wealth that they saved actually

31:40

buys more so so that's actually a

31:42

sign of civilizational progress nuts we get

31:44

on a somebody standard because you make

31:46

like making savings great again right

31:48

like that's that's what we needed focus on an

31:50

arm and and again we've just inverted things

31:52

like or on what

31:54

kind of backwards

31:57

, does

31:59

do things get more expensive like for

32:02

something to get more expensive implies that

32:04

you're worse a doing it and that

32:06

your less efficient and less effective

32:08

like that is not the way things are supposed to

32:10

happen as we get more advanced as weak

32:12

as we specialize more as we get more competent

32:15

the price of things comes down like isn't

32:18

that , happen that way and and he

32:20

we are like fighting you know

32:22

on this treadmill because all

32:25

of the political

32:26

and central banking snacks

32:28

that happened that distort everything down strengths

32:30

of yeah i philosophical answer put it into

32:32

something more tangible so here's a cup of coffee

32:34

nineteen seventies cup of coffee was ten cents

32:37

a cup of coffee is three or four bucks

32:40

don't you think with all the technology supply

32:42

chains the plane boats

32:44

we have today it would be cheaper and easier to

32:46

get the coffee bean from columbia to my cup of

32:48

coffee the cup of coffee should come from ten

32:50

cents to three cents or two zones now

32:52

from ten cents to three or four bucks

32:54

yep and he has i was just

32:57

thinking our

32:59

daughter you guys it out another interesting one and i'm

33:01

sure it'll be similar without

33:03

with with your parents little and grandparents

33:05

but i'm when my

33:07

when my dad that a medical doctor

33:10

the when my dad first

33:13

came to the uk the doctor

33:15

so you know above average salary his

33:18

annual salary was four

33:21

thousand pounds a year about

33:23

six thousand dollars at the time the

33:25

annual salary as a medical doctor in the

33:27

uk in the seventies and

33:30

he often tells me a story of story of house

33:33

him and my mom wanted to buy

33:35

the house not the deposit the house

33:37

was fifteen thousand pounds

33:40

and they couldn't afford it does

33:44

result of the annual labour yeah

33:46

exactly and now that number

33:48

is number is about eleven or twelve times

33:51

the annual labour so i

33:54

think this think this a point that a

33:56

lot of people i think across the whole political

33:59

aisle for the actual

34:01

leftists to conservatives to

34:03

libertarians and everything in the middle i

34:05

, analyzing some of this

34:08

diagnoses i think this is something people

34:10

do get right you'll you'll hear a lot of people

34:12

especially on on on the left side of the aisle saying

34:15

well you know used to cost this must do

34:17

this and our cause this much and you know the young people

34:19

he can get on housing ladder mean

34:21

it's not hard to understand why

34:24

so many young people are

34:27

like turning into socialists and communists

34:29

and are are not fans of capitalism because when

34:31

they think of capitalism they're

34:33

thinking of this bastard iced form what

34:36

we've got so i can actually empathize

34:39

with a lot of what they're saying

34:42

or i often times the solution the

34:45

or even some parts of the diagnosis i i i don't

34:47

believe are correct and i think some of this of proposed

34:49

solutions are actually going to make things worse

34:52

by i think it's it's a fair point

34:55

that to be a

34:57

thirty year old or even a forty year old and to

35:00

buy a house or to just

35:02

save money the shouldn't

35:04

be that you'd need to be a

35:06

financial expert or you know he's a should

35:08

need to be warren buffett for a

35:11

genius at the markets in order to

35:13

simply put away enough money to

35:16

buy yourself a a property or to

35:18

feel comfortable to to get married

35:20

and bring children into the world

35:22

and so on

35:25

early on islam that's messed

35:27

up actually funny a eve met blemishes

35:30

i said since as orange killed

35:32

her and got her into the she wrote her first

35:34

a clown a call the other week and going

35:36

to be published on the guy magazine so happy bus

35:38

stops to the highlights the

35:41

fia system has eroded

35:43

the the family because now

35:46

traditionally the man was able to

35:49

go out and as he said like three years of labor

35:52

provide a house know it's impossible

35:54

so now like both men and women have

35:56

to work of the have no time

35:58

for each other they have no time the relationship

36:00

the nuclear family falls apart like

36:03

it creates all of these knock on effects

36:05

and i guess as

36:07

you said the sometimes

36:11

and it ended

36:12

the problem society and messy things and and

36:14

lack of deep thinking right is like sometimes

36:17

you can identify the problems in the symptoms

36:19

of the problems and that's what a lot

36:21

of these political people do

36:23

whether they're on the left side of the all the right side of the

36:25

aisle whatever they they can see the problem of

36:28

some of them can even articulate

36:31

the elements to the problem well but

36:33

none of them very few of

36:35

them seem to the

36:38

has i don't know whether it's the the

36:41

curiosity the cognitive capacity the courage

36:44

or the integrity to integrity to

36:46

into actually point out the cause and

36:49

and what often happens and

36:51

i mean that this is a big part of our and kind

36:55

of situation at the moment is that the

36:57

solution to the problem is more

36:59

of what created the problem in the first place so

37:03

like week without week without in the first place because

37:05

we started redistributing wealth from productive

37:08

he puts an unproductive and in and the people

37:10

doing that with bureaucrats in the middle so they'd

37:12

leached all of the i'm practice capacity

37:14

and need a you end up with the a net

37:17

less amount of wealth for everybody

37:19

so what do we do let's create more laws

37:22

so that more of that can happen

37:24

and it's it's completely mindless which

37:28

in in a which goes as responsibilities

37:31

and they have a responsibility continue to double

37:33

down on coding and same policies

37:35

go there's no accountability for the port thought

37:38

policy because they've already made a

37:40

, example off and are we going to millions

37:42

of example when an easier and

37:44

better no doubt i'm so

37:46

obviously your book anyone who

37:49

sees that title of the and communist manifesto

37:52

they know that that's obviously based off obviously

37:55

based marx is as marx and engels

37:58

the communist manifesto

37:59

so

38:02

tommy little bit about the process that

38:04

led to the creation of

38:06

this book because i'm assuming you started

38:08

out with the communist manifesto

38:12

the earth the i'm the

38:14

i guess that the process is mark

38:16

and i were in salvador

38:18

then

38:19

we're talking about like he's like man

38:21

of read the communist manifesto like

38:25

of like ah you know what i actually haven't

38:27

seen over the other to get around to rena reds

38:29

and like excerpts from oxnard deals like it's really

38:31

dumb but i haven't actually read that is like

38:33

man it's so that this

38:36

is like it's like this short

38:38

book foot

38:40

really then we , should

38:43

a bit of money if anybody ever read this

38:45

there's no way they would go along with those ideas

38:47

yet another can move

38:50

or should read this any kind of floated the idea is legitimate

38:52

maybe we should write a book the kind of would sit

38:54

on it's head an animated that was kinda like in july

38:56

of twenty twenty one and which is kinda is left

38:59

a dead and really pursue it and pursue i'm yet

39:02

we're in a colon like december twenty

39:04

colon one and like manual we

39:06

should we should actually gone write this book

39:08

we should lock ourselves in a room you know we're

39:10

seeing older the coin is gonna doing these books princely

39:13

kind of lock themselves into an ab and the in writing out

39:15

of books as , know let's

39:18

they do the same thing so we kind of book that in lock

39:20

ourselves and a house for a couple days

39:23

we both some read the communist

39:25

manifesto when we weren't sure how little gonna

39:27

do initially like yep i

39:29

started like riding rebuttals to marxist

39:32

points you know one by one and

39:34

more than a kind of dilip rebuttal thing and and muffling

39:37

nine old should kinda like emulate

39:39

the process in the form and all this was the so

39:41

anyway

39:42

that kind of this is the

39:43

beautiful thing about the creative process right

39:45

and you you would notice particularly yourselves

39:47

of is like the you know sometimes it just

39:50

emerges how to

39:52

well

39:55

as people dying every fifteen minutes anyway

40:00

it it basically

40:02

through sitting down and like

40:05

flipping some of the core elements

40:07

and then turning it into basically

40:10

a simple discourse we we basically

40:12

pulled up for chapters each

40:15

which

40:17

in essence

40:17

the core idea on it's head so

40:19

like one of the first ideas that marks talks

40:22

, in in the original communist manifesto

40:24

is that they try and boil down

40:26

all of human history into the struggle between

40:29

two classes oppressor an oppressed oppressed

40:32

in a we kind of make the point like whoop know

40:34

you can't do that because struggle

40:36

festival is ever is does

40:39

never just wanna pressroom one oppressed

40:42

in fact unit

40:44

you are your own oppressor most days

40:46

anyway like you know you are you struggling against

40:48

everything struggling and your family your friends

40:51

sidey another group this

40:53

group that groovy econ just like label

40:55

people by oppressor

40:57

an oppressed put them in a identify

41:00

them through some sort of group identity and

41:03

then pit them against each other how it works so

41:05

works so kind of said the real struggle actually

41:07

is that we human beings

41:10

are bound by scarce resources

41:12

fixed amount of time and a limited amount

41:14

of energy the real the

41:16

struggle is dewey do

41:19

we acquire wealth and do we advance in

41:21

less through the cooperative means or

41:24

the coercive means sir

41:26

, and the corporate of means the economic means to

41:28

we trade and do i

41:30

specialized something and mock special as you

41:32

specialize in something and we measure

41:34

the product the that labour and we trade somehow we actually

41:36

all end up with more or do we or

41:38

it through the coercive means which is

41:41

a common be to of the head with it or with create

41:43

some sort of political machinations to

41:45

extract wealth from you the

41:47

a taxation or whatever and arms and

41:49

that's been the real struggle and the societies

41:51

that have managed to be more cooperative

41:54

as opposed to coercive have prospered

41:57

for have longer period of time

41:59

in that kind of one the first

42:02

points and i think the second point an aloe

42:04

at mach sort of take it from here

42:06

but i think the second big a piss any that we had more

42:09

writing the book was just as

42:13

this redefinition of

42:15

capitalism not as a political

42:18

system but as an organic

42:20

process and the way i kind of like

42:22

to think about it is sort of what i said earlier

42:24

is that human

42:27

beings we naturally we take

42:29

chaos of we transform it into higher order

42:31

and and sailor and i will we were on a podcast

42:34

that a week ago we talk about how like human

42:37

beings by their nature we were engineers we

42:39

we we fix things we tinker week we create

42:41

we build where artists what you know where we're kind of like

42:43

this mix of art and science simultaneous

42:46

and i think that's a beautiful thing so when

42:48

when you look at what capitalism

42:51

is like capitalism started the first

42:53

time one of our ancestors

42:55

picked up iraq and threw it out an animal

42:57

a to save time and energy

43:00

in acquiring food like that was

43:02

the capitalistic process he save time

43:04

and energy and will able to do that and

43:07

we've always done this capitalistic

43:10

process we were always orienting

43:12

, to train train

43:15

the efficient and effective use of time

43:17

energy and resources that that is by definition

43:20

what capitalism is seeking to do the

43:22

problem occurs when we wrap

43:25

that process in all

43:27

sorts of political modalities in red tape

43:29

and the more we suffocated the

43:32

more we basically kill that natural

43:34

process so so we make this argument in the book

43:36

is that capitalism , all

43:38

the time time even existing communism

43:40

it's just known as the black market it exists

43:43

in democracies it's kind of known as like

43:45

in a sunday markets like it always

43:47

exist it's just how much do we suffocated

43:49

through politics and and we with that is really

43:51

cool grass in the book which says you

43:53

know you got left and right politics

43:56

which is the spectrum and then we

43:58

kind of we we tip that's come

44:00

on it's side and we kind of drew like a sideways

44:02

t and we say okay will you know what

44:04

left my politics may be opposed to each other

44:07

but that's on this side of this sideways

44:09

t and , the other side exists

44:11

capitalism and you know and the marketplace

44:14

that is actually not political like you

44:16

and i can trade irrespective of politics

44:19

and human beings have done that since the

44:21

dawn of time it's when politics getting the

44:23

way that we you know we get in

44:25

the way the put it on the capitals processor and

44:27

you i think that sort of to the big take was me

44:29

and i'm i think of kind think gone

44:32

off the rails with respect the original question but

44:34

parents question but up now sort of unlock

44:38

if we want to dig and asking questions on an

44:40

actual now you've you've you've had much i

44:43

, to the point we

44:45

the we we this kind of creative process

44:47

where we'll try to decide what

44:49

angle we should take so we knew like i said

44:51

if if somebody read the actual book how could

44:53

they actually like this so marks as if

44:56

i summed up communism in one statement it would

44:58

be the abolition of private property

45:01

comedy than what they meant remarks that discordant

45:04

are people okay with that that everyone

45:06

seems to be kind of all bothered by this their own

45:08

nothing have be happy so

45:12

marxism says abortion

45:14

by robert silly things like that we talked about

45:16

the family way talks about women like i can imagine

45:18

people okay with that if we wrestled

45:21

about how our going to do it one of the things

45:23

that i have personally wrestled with is the word

45:25

capitalism for the seems like it's so misunderstood

45:27

today most ,

45:29

or misunderstood today so everybody has their own

45:32

definitions of words and so

45:34

one of things that we did is we spent the first several

45:36

pages of a book to actually put definitions

45:38

in three get all kind of be on the same page as

45:40

went to the book book this capitalism

45:42

i had cut it defaulted to start using a

45:44

word free markets instead was i

45:46

think little bit more descriptive and capitalism has like

45:48

this like you know tone

45:51

to it and so alex like now we need to

45:53

make capitalism great again and so like let's

45:55

dig in and really expand show that and

45:57

and to the point he made it it's not

45:59

ace this democratic political system is the way

46:01

the world works and i have kids are you see

46:03

your kids when they're little tiny kids in

46:05

preschool and they're already trading

46:08

and thirty alex point the first couple is where the guy

46:10

picked up iraq into an animal i would say the first capitalism

46:13

was just a minute after that which is

46:15

now the guy had that that animal and he sees

46:17

a guy with their with the fire

46:19

the said hey you got a fire i got an animal

46:22

how about we trade i'll

46:24

, your fire i'll give you some my animal and

46:26

we'll trade so it's what

46:29

we did is we also made like also matrix and

46:31

we showed what the definition of capitalism

46:34

is and then in the

46:36

original book he he had a whole chapter time are

46:38

all the different versions of communism we

46:40

had a book a chapter about all the different versions

46:43

of capitalism so are people think that capitalism

46:45

lead to slavery capitalism is colonialism

46:48

by all these things and it's i will if you understand

46:51

the definition of capitalism is so for

46:53

example it recognizes private property rights

46:56

second it's free and voluntary exchange

46:58

so if you understand this definition we have

47:00

this matrix the understand that if that

47:03

if respects have a property rights as friend want her to

47:05

his does that is that slavery because

47:07

i didn't think slavery recognized for

47:09

a while to exchange rate of is that colonialism

47:12

that respect private property is that they answered courses

47:14

that's what you just said there's actually really

47:16

interesting because if you think about it for

47:18

a long time the way that they got

47:20

around that was obviously

47:23

by saying that slaves were not people

47:25

so therefore the a voluntary

47:28

aspect goes out the window and

47:30

well a sleaze human beings are just a

47:33

products or centrally on

47:35

the same level as as cattle or chickens then

47:38

that goes out the window so it is cup is very

47:40

nothing nefarious how they actually managed to get

47:43

around that insole laws changed in

47:45

people's consciences kicked in and

47:47

said okay these are these are human beings

47:49

and need to beings treated as such yeah that's

47:51

as good point that's a good my but even when they went to

47:53

africa in the first place amino through

47:55

the am carry beads carry slave the

47:58

and they didn't respect their private

47:59

property rights so run off the bat they violated

48:02

that to , point of

48:04

those places where they suffer property rights

48:06

anyway they edited point that you made or but we

48:08

took some time to get a break that down and show feel

48:11

cronyism or colonialism

48:13

or whatever these are not visit this is not capitalism

48:15

it's a couple's miss just organic it's just emergent

48:19

tweeted that and then am i

48:21

think at the end yeah we talked about

48:23

so karl marx put their that ten

48:25

things that he was calling for

48:27

for socialism or communism and

48:30

we basically took the same ten points

48:32

and gonna flip them so number five the

48:34

creation of creation central bank we

48:37

started talking about the money system and the banking

48:39

system would , knows

48:41

how the banking system works we of course from are

48:43

saying that it's a bad system that's

48:45

meant to steal from us and it's

48:47

the core tenets of what

48:50

marxism communism marxism

48:52

the creation of central bank to course we say the

48:54

abolition of a central bank arm so we kind

48:56

of a take that but at the end i think

48:58

we we address one question that i think was super

49:01

important for everybody to understand and

49:03

as what's the appeal people

49:06

read read the original book i don't think most

49:08

people would like it it's , idea

49:11

who now we have a hundred years

49:13

or more of history to show that it's killed

49:15

hundreds of millions of people people

49:18

what what's the appeal wide i wasn't real

49:20

that wasn't real communism arc of course of

49:23

if only we had done a had yeah and

49:25

so we have we have we have track record

49:28

what's the appeal so i think we answered doubt it

49:30

will be question at the end and we

49:32

question have a very positive hopeful

49:35

challenging tone that we hope will

49:37

hi people to rise up and be better versions of

49:39

themselves

49:40

that's so interesting i

49:44

think one of the main appeals of

49:47

what i understand of marxists work i'll

49:49

be honest and say i have lived not directly

49:51

read any of it but i really i really

49:53

should just us understand it better

49:56

even if i know i'm i know i'm not

49:58

going to like it but i i think

50:00

people do like very simple the

50:03

ideas and explanations i think the world is a

50:05

very complex so

50:08

i think this is also how people fall into

50:11

these ideas of obsession with

50:13

just labeling and grouping people because

50:16

it's it's a simplification process

50:19

so if you just view the world as

50:22

oppressors and oppressed you know

50:25

the victors and victims then

50:27

that's a that's a simple and

50:29

therefore appealing worldview for

50:31

a certain type of person to the it's sort of

50:33

clicks and maybe from their own personal

50:36

experiences with their you know their own hardships

50:39

they think oh of course right it's it

50:41

those guys it's knows it's those people

50:43

with that group you've seen this done along racial

50:45

lines ethnic lines class

50:48

lines political lies also the

50:50

i'm a jet gender lines right though the patriarchy

50:52

her i'd to us it's the patriarchy right

50:55

men around the world just have this

50:59

this , called the patriarchy

51:01

which are you know apparently we're all plotting

51:03

every day every rule out of just keep the boot

51:05

down on women so it's interesting

51:07

side i think people quite like these operations

51:09

and this and be so to very simplified

51:12

ways of doing things people do a political well if

51:15

if we're being honest you know when people talk about the

51:17

left and the right they

51:19

make it sound as if across

51:21

the entire country that

51:23

there's just these two there

51:26

the an impending on your side

51:28

this one is good and this one is bad

51:30

and you should support everyone this one does and oppose

51:32

everything this one does and i

51:35

can really get the appeal because even

51:37

a lot of you know very very smart people often times

51:39

to default to this binary and

51:42

i think it's think think it's very tempting than a

51:44

makes things a lot easier to

51:46

understand even if it's a misunderstanding

51:48

if you can just think okay well the

51:50

problem is the left right that's the

51:52

problem there's this half of the population

51:55

and this is what they're doing and it's terrible

51:57

and causing all the problems and we just need my side

51:59

to win and then you have the people on the other side's

52:01

like these these these right wingers i

52:03

had the right is causing

52:05

all these problems there are a threat to democracy

52:08

they want to trample on women and trample on

52:10

minorities and whatever and we just need to vote

52:12

for our team and it'll get

52:14

sick and weak does this ping pong game it

52:16

goes back and forth and back and forth and no one as

52:19

you said is looking at the

52:21

doing a diagnosis properly and

52:23

seeing where the true problem in a lot of these

52:26

economic social issues

52:28

lie and as a result

52:31

the to dancing back and forth every four years

52:33

every eight years and things don't

52:35

really get better and a tangible

52:37

way

52:38

yeah i will i wanted i wanted

52:40

to as as you are talking then i

52:42

thought i should pull up the on the

52:44

communist manifesto good at your own in my book

52:47

nicer in my my computer and i

52:49

kind of i've i've called the communist manifesto

52:52

the the the oh gee a

52:54

great reset like if if if

52:56

i is reincarnation

52:59

was real i'm pretty sure class for this car max

53:01

reincarnated because

53:04

, they they just overlap so nicely

53:06

but i just want to read out the ten commandments

53:08

basically of communism and i just want to see

53:10

your reactions to be like you

53:13

know just want to see how they make you feel right office

53:15

so i'm one is the abolition

53:17

of property inland of property

53:19

of all rents of land to public purposes

53:21

so publisher private property and

53:24

, and are also to think about like

53:27

how much of this actually exists in

53:29

so called modern capital states

53:32

number two a heavy progressive

53:34

or graduated income tax and

53:37

the three the abolition of all rights

53:39

of inheritance so ,

53:41

other words your parents work all day life life

53:44

they die the state takes everything user

53:47

get nothing number for

53:49

the confiscation of the property

53:51

of all immigrants and rebels so

53:53

in other words in don't like this place like want to leave

53:56

sir you lose everything

53:59

the this this is this is what they think

54:02

is a good idea and number five decentralization

54:05

of credit in the hands of the state

54:07

by means of the national bank with state

54:09

capital on exclusive monopoly i

54:12

central bank and another

54:14

six decentralization have the means

54:16

of communication and transport the

54:18

hand to the state i , where i've seen

54:20

that before and everywhere and

54:23

the extension of factories instruments of

54:25

production on by the state

54:28

the

54:29

the basically the on this is the the

54:31

bringing into cultivation of wasteland an improvement

54:34

on so generally in accordance with a common

54:36

plants as citizens an interesting one because i

54:38

can agree with a , of these

54:40

things of is very agricultural focused

54:43

but the the the premise there was

54:45

set on the state comes in and owns

54:48

all of the land is is in charge of

54:50

a common plan for bringing

54:52

everything into the cultivation then

54:55

number eight equal liability of

54:57

all to work the establishment

54:59

of industrial i'm is especially if agriculture so

55:03

aren't cares

55:05

your

55:06

one person or another if you have a difference

55:09

at goal in life you must

55:11

all work and , the same thing

55:14

thing nine combination of agriculture

55:16

with manufacturing industries i'm so the

55:18

gradual abolition of all distinction

55:20

between town and country by more equal

55:23

distribution of the populace over the

55:25

country the loud choose we live

55:27

we're going to tell you and we're going to distribute everything

55:29

by a grant plants and n

55:32

number ten is free education for all children

55:34

in public schools so

55:36

that weekend indoctrinate everybody

55:39

the way we want so so that's your

55:41

that's your ten commandments yvonne

55:44

the com his manifesto an when you when

55:46

you hear those like number one they

55:49

the i mean

55:52

on me personally rubs me the wrong way like particularly

55:54

things like i know a big

55:56

part of why i work so hard

55:59

their own hands

55:59

something down to my kids yes they're gonna have to

56:02

earn it but i want them to have

56:04

something so they can build off like this idea

56:06

that some monkey bureaucrat

56:09

the government is gonna take everything

56:11

they got

56:13

we literally said before member like we build

56:15

stuff so that we can pass it down

56:17

so that we can keep building civilization like this is

56:20

the definition of anti civilization

56:23

or idea i'm lakes but

56:25

the other than the ones that make you angry like

56:28

you look at these one particular number two and five

56:31

progressive income tax and the

56:33

the the central

56:35

bank like

56:37

we have this and so called western capitalist

56:39

nations like we're not living in capital

56:41

we're living in basically watered down communism

56:44

for whom the the whole world is a

56:46

lot of people don't realize this is like in this is why

56:49

i mean unfortunately people just don't read history

56:51

and that aren't read the books that

56:53

came before you know they they walk around with down

56:55

communist manifesto with the haven't read the bloody thing

56:58

home and did this

57:00

is with with living through this and we wonder why

57:02

like you know if the progressive

57:04

tax is always been one that drives me crazy as like

57:07

you want people to to

57:09

work harder and do more why

57:12

in the name of christ would you tax

57:14

the more the harder they work do

57:16

like it is completely backwards feel

57:19

like and

57:20

at an annual just wanted to read those out in a

57:23

yeah no that's that's inch that's interesting i

57:25

definitely heard some of those before but i don't

57:27

think i'd ever read altana

57:30

i will read the communist manifesto cause it's something

57:32

it's really should have more knowledge

57:34

of the other two about

57:36

that requests guess is that the original government

57:38

manifestoes eight thousand words you can read

57:40

in about forty five minutes five guess this book

57:43

about ten thousand words that maybe it's about an hour

57:45

read what we think that you'd that you'd the case earlier

57:48

i'm a lot of these should be easy to to

57:50

obtain her understand until it's over the

57:52

best books written some of the most powerful

57:54

books rothbart anatomy the state best

57:56

the it's the law com his manifesto

57:58

their booklets so

58:00

we didn't want us to be like overwhelming are daunting

58:02

worth isn't a coffee table for a year in one day you'll get

58:05

to it like you could sit down with a cup of coffee and read this and forty

58:07

five minutes or an hour the original one or

58:09

this one as well but yeah other know

58:11

how old are good the two things that struck

58:14

me beyond the sort of like

58:16

natural emotional recoil

58:18

and also knowledge of what actually

58:21

happened when these ideas were fully

58:23

implemented and the amount of people

58:25

who who died as a result to

58:28

think that really struck me are

58:31

number one

58:33

this a lot of those things

58:35

are how

58:36

perron deals with a child and comes

58:39

back to your point alex about the infantil

58:41

ization right if if you think of a view of your parent

58:43

and you're raising very young children not

58:45

even teenagers or young adults i

58:48

, yes you you are essentially

58:50

dictate everything right they don't they don't make

58:52

the decisions they don't have the autonomy

58:55

yes you are the central bank right bank

58:57

of mom and dad you in control everything

58:59

they don't choose where they live the i even choose

59:01

what they eat where they live anything right you

59:03

you own you are the state in that case

59:05

and that works in a relationship

59:08

between parents and very

59:11

very small children and as those children get

59:13

older they gain more

59:15

and more autonomy responsibility

59:17

accountability and so the point they can god

59:19

in the world and you don't need

59:21

to be looming be looming parent doesn't need to be looming

59:24

over them controlling other actions

59:26

and still giving them an allowance

59:28

and telling them what to eat and how

59:30

to dress and

59:32

then the other point that struck me is

59:34

that it reads as if it's written

59:37

by someone who just doesn't even have

59:39

even have understanding of human nature right

59:42

no understanding of what really

59:44

drives and motivates people

59:47

i'm though the bond people

59:49

have with their families and with their children

59:52

that desire to provide for the next generation

59:54

the simple i mean you could use the term selfish

59:57

but the the selfish desire that

59:59

people

59:59

have to

1:00:01

the i'm i'm not using selfish in a negative way here but

1:00:04

the notion that i'm going over worst

1:00:06

yeah self interest right i'm i'm going to work harder

1:00:09

him i get to be rewarded

1:00:11

from it i shouldn't be punished

1:00:13

more or have more taken from me the

1:00:16

harder i work in just the fact that obviously

1:00:19

that's gonna cause people to you know the example i'd

1:00:21

use his and i've used this was

1:00:23

because i am i have i , friends who

1:00:25

have done the all your communism is a good idea on paper

1:00:28

but you know they might and i'm like no it's not as

1:00:30

it is and i don't even give it i have not a

1:00:32

good idea on paper and i often use

1:00:34

the example okay is this the people

1:00:36

same as they're all yale university graduates

1:00:38

and you vog i saw my okay let's

1:00:40

say you were in a class and

1:00:44

no matter and you just

1:00:47

averaged out degrades

1:00:49

okay so no matter how hard you work

1:00:51

or how little we worked you're gonna get the

1:00:53

average grade

1:00:54

the

1:00:55

the class were just gonna take all the scores

1:00:58

average it out and that's what you get

1:01:00

how hard would you work

1:01:02

right yeah especially over

1:01:04

the course of time like what what do you think would happen and

1:01:06

it clicks for them and ago okay

1:01:08

, cause you're you're completely blowing up the

1:01:10

incentive structure right you don't work

1:01:12

hard so that the next person

1:01:14

gets gets better grade like we

1:01:17

just don't work like that maybe you might

1:01:19

think in your brain know who it would it would might be

1:01:21

nice if that happened but it's like know

1:01:23

whether or not you think it's nice it's think it's reality

1:01:26

that's not how human beings are

1:01:28

yeah there's a there's a classic sable it's

1:01:30

called the the economists fails

1:01:33

the say the teacher fails the entire economics class

1:01:35

which is exactly that example look at like she

1:01:38

is she she gets up and tells of

1:01:40

run a case that get

1:01:42

you gonna do the tests and then she averages out and

1:01:44

basically of the time and it was it was was

1:01:46

a real experiment as far as understand is that over

1:01:48

time the

1:01:51

the average score just continues to plummet

1:01:53

right because every level whitewash

1:01:55

of advice hard someone else will yeah

1:01:58

we'll keep the i'm average up and then

1:01:59

basically

1:02:01

they go from i think an average of be all the way

1:02:03

down to an estate and and i'm rent

1:02:07

so beautifully

1:02:10

we've this into the narrative, an

1:02:12

atlas shrugged with deal with

1:02:14

it i think it's 20th century motor co the

1:02:17

20th century motor company which is they,

1:02:19

they get taken over by the

1:02:21

three children of the founder and the

1:02:24

three children and basically you

1:02:26

know she doesn't fly in there was this they

1:02:28

basically raging communists and they they transform

1:02:31

the entire organization into one

1:02:33

that by the rule of

1:02:35

from each according to their ability

1:02:37

to each according to their need and

1:02:39

that's how everyone's paid and that's how everything functions

1:02:42

and basically she takes

1:02:44

you through, like almost an entire chapter

1:02:46

is kind of the d evolution of

1:02:48

that company in that company

1:02:50

was the the hot fate of this entire little

1:02:53

mini town, and kind the

1:02:55

town and everything like that is, it is is

1:02:57

so good but she said, it's kind of like

1:03:01

it basically devolves

1:03:03

civilization into the lowest common denominator

1:03:05

and

1:03:05

and it happens every single

1:03:08

time but in like you said, it's

1:03:11

no good on paper and it's definitely

1:03:13

not good in practice know the home that

1:03:15

there's no there's no justification for it

1:03:17

but

1:03:19

yeah and there's also the big question and know for

1:03:21

we've seen this play out for i saw this in the soviet

1:03:24

union you saw this a maoist china etc is the

1:03:26

okay how does the state

1:03:29

choir all of this land

1:03:31

and power and property won't be know

1:03:33

it's in the hands of people so you

1:03:35

know what apple what what do you suggest

1:03:38

why i have a yeah like

1:03:40

how how do they get their hands on all of this and

1:03:43

is it turns out that process

1:03:45

is genocidal

1:03:47

im it's always gonna be socialism

1:03:50

always be violent because there's always gonna be

1:03:52

some people who don't want to give up their property

1:03:54

that operating under genocidal have

1:03:56

you made a very astute observation when

1:03:59

you said that that sounds like it was written

1:04:01

from somebody who doesn't understand

1:04:04

how people have relationships

1:04:06

work out the importance of family as

1:04:08

that's exactly correct and so one of

1:04:10

the prob the people today with no no critical thinking

1:04:13

and one of the things a critical thinking is

1:04:15

the first piece of and when you get a piece of information

1:04:17

is who is telling me

1:04:19

this and what is their worldview

1:04:21

what is your motivations except motivations rights and so

1:04:23

karl marx himself came from he

1:04:27

he wasn't a very good person he him very rich

1:04:29

family but he didn't want to go into the family

1:04:32

business of or been attorney he wanted his right

1:04:34

philosophy nobody would pay him to rifle us

1:04:36

back then you couldn't get a sudden he couldn't survive

1:04:38

just read philosophy that dance and he had a family

1:04:41

but he was a horrible father or one or more

1:04:43

was kids died of malnutrition he would disappear

1:04:45

for long periods of time leave them alone

1:04:48

he , all these different communism clubs people

1:04:50

didn't like them he gets fight regularly get

1:04:52

kicked out regularly and it was his ultimate

1:04:54

he was miserable and he was very mad at the world

1:04:57

whose angry at the world that he couldn't survive

1:05:00

and provide for his family which he didn't even

1:05:02

lover care for and he couldn't provide for

1:05:04

them doing what he wanted to do am

1:05:06

and he didn't want to conform to what the world had and

1:05:09

so that was the world view that the person our

1:05:11

hostess had which you picked up on but

1:05:14

it's like why would we want to take want to

1:05:16

from somebody

1:05:16

that and apply that to our

1:05:18

world yet to tack

1:05:21

on to that really quickly and jordan peterson

1:05:23

whenever he criticized marxists work he

1:05:25

he actually really hone in on to

1:05:28

into the the lack of understanding

1:05:31

the human psychology sir

1:05:33

a lot of communism and than the com

1:05:35

is my first one

1:05:37

the us capitol and all the sort of stuff it's it's

1:05:39

really centered around this

1:05:42

fantasy idea that if the

1:05:44

just magically remove people's privation

1:05:48

you give them everything they need and

1:05:50

basically what they need is apparently defined by

1:05:52

what the communists believe iran nice but

1:05:54

if you somehow did that he gave them just in a food

1:05:57

just enough time just enough rations and

1:05:59

just enough well that that apparently ever

1:06:01

be happy

1:06:03

and

1:06:03

jordan kind of like decimate

1:06:06

that is like would that that's not how the human

1:06:09

psyche works in a human

1:06:11

, always striving an

1:06:13

android like team i think in one of

1:06:15

his lectures jones is like people are

1:06:17

looking to keep looking like we're always

1:06:19

trying to reach

1:06:22

for something and this reminds me of what we when we started

1:06:24

the discussion of the idea of contra plant right

1:06:27

like we are and teen tropics the

1:06:30

beings like we're looking to go

1:06:32

beyond just the baseline

1:06:34

because

1:06:36

the you you've kind of got this equation you've got

1:06:38

growth or you got death in that

1:06:40

which is living in life is always seeking

1:06:42

to expand some weights and a

1:06:44

lot of life's expansion is

1:06:46

experimental a lot of it is the

1:06:49

unit attempting something and doing something

1:06:52

that is outside of just the norm and

1:06:55

communism seeks to just stand rise and sterilize

1:06:58

everything because when you standardized

1:07:00

sterilize everything you can centrally planned

1:07:03

that better and that this is why it you know the

1:07:05

modern sort of quote unquote

1:07:07

globalist agenda is an attempt

1:07:09

to train standardized everything like

1:07:12

they make everything a problem sir nothing is a problem

1:07:14

they make everything hysterical so you know the everything

1:07:16

seems to be in a completely relative

1:07:18

and all the same so the money standardized

1:07:22

and the more you try and transform

1:07:24

basically complex human individuals

1:07:27

into numbers on a spreadsheet

1:07:29

like again the again the

1:07:31

twenty twenty was an example of this is like

1:07:34

epidemiology is a complete pseudoscience

1:07:37

epidemiology is a scam because you can't

1:07:40

like he you cannot go

1:07:42

and turn people into just

1:07:45

digits on a spreadsheet and extrapolate

1:07:47

out how the zombie apocalypse is gonna happen

1:07:50

because everybody has different immune system

1:07:52

is

1:07:53

fundamentally him in

1:07:54

sibel and yes

1:07:56

in and that's that's

1:07:57

all of these kind of centrally planned models

1:07:59

to do and communism is just complete

1:08:02

central planning that that's just another name for

1:08:04

it it's and as you said it's like

1:08:07

parents

1:08:08

centrally planned the home and

1:08:10

you can do that at that scale and

1:08:12

the parents have the authority to do that because they gave

1:08:15

you less than that the states neither

1:08:17

gave you less no proceeding

1:08:19

or anything for that matter of

1:08:21

and in a in a communist sort of

1:08:23

and also importantly at for an

1:08:25

infant or very young child that is

1:08:27

necessary absolutely necessary

1:08:30

for their survival and right once

1:08:32

you're an adult you can feed yourself

1:08:34

you can make your own decisions you're you're a big

1:08:36

boy now you can look after yourself if you know a three

1:08:38

year old leave him alone for

1:08:41

you know forty eight hours and they're they're they're

1:08:43

gonna die or i have a even really a newborn

1:08:46

what yeah

1:08:47

the mom you get my might let my last couple days

1:08:49

i don't doubt they'll go hungry they can do anything to get

1:08:51

even loaded with they're not even ambulatory so

1:08:54

yeah i mean i again

1:08:57

i've i've talked a lot about the stuff that's happened

1:08:59

over the past two and a half years but that's another

1:09:01

thing that i find it so

1:09:03

shocking now when people are acting surprised

1:09:06

by the fact that there's more mental

1:09:08

health problems now when they're acting surprised

1:09:10

by the inflation and all these things it's like i

1:09:13

was with the thing that struck me immediately with the

1:09:15

so called lockdowns really house arrest

1:09:17

right mandatory house arrest it was like human

1:09:20

beings are social creatures were social

1:09:22

we're not we're not just numbers were not widgets we

1:09:25

are social beings now i'm not

1:09:27

a psychologist i can't tell you exactly

1:09:30

what the precise ramifications will

1:09:32

be of locking hundreds

1:09:35

of millions or billions of people in

1:09:37

their houses essentially for weeks

1:09:39

and then months on end there's

1:09:42

not gonna be good or i of course more people

1:09:44

are going to be depressed of course more people will become suicidal

1:09:46

of course more people will be deeply deeply

1:09:49

unhappy because you're taking away just

1:09:51

such a basic human thing i

1:09:53

felt the same with the mandatory with a mandatory

1:09:55

masking right i cannot quantify

1:09:58

on paper with mathematics how

1:10:00

important it is to see human faces

1:10:02

and to be able to see people's expressions and see

1:10:04

people smiling lap you know smile

1:10:06

at a stranger on the street all of that stuff

1:10:08

i can't tell you but i know it's

1:10:10

important just on on a human level that's

1:10:13

being able to see each other's faces even though we're not

1:10:15

in the same room right now if each of us was wearing

1:10:18

a mask that was covering our nose

1:10:20

and our mouth and are cheeks and everything this

1:10:22

conversation with loose the i bought

1:10:24

for us and for anyone who's watching

1:10:27

right yeah you you would loose

1:10:29

of the of your thanks i'm like is it is

1:10:31

he smirking is he frowning is

1:10:33

he angry as he said i don't know

1:10:36

i can as we're talking i can sell

1:10:38

when somebody wants to say something i can see

1:10:40

if i o k marts dot something to say because

1:10:43

something can just read that i can read that

1:10:45

facial expression and all of this was just

1:10:47

lost and everyone was i all there's no downside

1:10:49

to wearing a mask and i'm like how that

1:10:52

you don't understand human beings there is downside

1:10:55

now you might think that downside is is worth

1:10:57

it if you think there's an upside is

1:10:59

not what is what

1:11:02

it's like this like this even considered and so

1:11:04

to do such an experiment on such a

1:11:06

large scale

1:11:07

for so many people to be advocating for that was

1:11:09

the part that to me was like i like

1:11:11

our people not seeing this like this

1:11:14

like this a mining and for planning men

1:11:16

central planning is it it all hinges around

1:11:19

this maniacal attempt in this

1:11:21

ties back into keynesian economics

1:11:23

for example that is once again central

1:11:25

planning it that they all attempts

1:11:27

to distill reality into

1:11:30

a set of models and when stuff doesn't

1:11:32

fit the model

1:11:33

what the solution

1:11:35

ignore it

1:11:36

that the net that that's the solution

1:11:38

to all central planners so it's like it basically

1:11:40

you you look at i'm stalinist russia

1:11:43

so they they they did all this the confiscated

1:11:45

the farms people started such starving

1:11:48

and then when people complained about the starvation

1:11:50

general they did the when and killed him for a medical

1:11:52

x your says it's like ignore

1:11:54

the problem at all costs so all

1:11:57

they would take the exact same

1:11:59

thing is have

1:11:59

now with central banks cp i

1:12:02

it's like inflation pops up circuit

1:12:04

will let's just take that out of the measurement of cp

1:12:06

i like let's make

1:12:09

, more convenient so like ignore

1:12:11

reality so like that they live in is kind

1:12:13

of fantasy land and of the of got this sort

1:12:15

of new saying that i'm trying to like popularized

1:12:18

but at some in a politics

1:12:20

attempts to pretend it's way into

1:12:22

prosperity

1:12:23

then

1:12:24

because that that's what they're all doing the like they close

1:12:27

their eyes than just like funny i can just looks

1:12:29

pretend enough

1:12:31

it'll be okay and but

1:12:33

that's just not how reality works he can't

1:12:35

you can't ignore

1:12:38

your way into and

1:12:40

been making the model work lake

1:12:43

and yet that that sort of ties back

1:12:45

into why we bitcoin is like bitcoin

1:12:47

doesn't pretend anything bitcoin

1:12:49

just maps directly and

1:12:51

like you make a mistake make poor economic

1:12:53

decision whatever like it

1:12:55

reflects in your school

1:12:57

and nina your school in a civilization

1:13:00

is how much

1:13:02

wealth you've managed to accumulate for your actions

1:13:05

like that for whip were playing

1:13:07

a faulty game because we keep pretending

1:13:09

because the map in the territory don't

1:13:13

don't overlap like when we've got this completely

1:13:15

this whole series of fake maps that

1:13:18

like in it he did the analogy

1:13:20

that i've used in the past is like imagine your am

1:13:24

you're walking around in the desert right and

1:13:26

the central planners like this lido in this

1:13:28

tribe walking around in the desert and

1:13:31

his map says that

1:13:33

it is greenery and

1:13:35

beautiful like water and lakes and everyone

1:13:38

you know that the people following like a

1:13:41

no water heated and his solution

1:13:43

is like kill that guy a

1:13:46

, of the matter what is this lotta

1:13:49

lotta dying of thirst with

1:13:53

censoring quickly before the rest of the people

1:13:55

realize that there's no would there's and

1:13:57

the that's like the world we're living in it's like

1:13:59

grounded madness

1:14:02

what do you do

1:14:02

edit

1:14:05

and it brings us full circle to where we started the conversation

1:14:07

which is the lack of responsibility totally

1:14:10

into the fia money system enables the

1:14:12

central planners to get around

1:14:14

the laws that would typically hold

1:14:16

them to responsibility

1:14:20

a man man it's been so great

1:14:22

to talk to you guys you are you are both people

1:14:24

individually let alone combine where

1:14:26

i'd i know he could do at a story our

1:14:28

podcast and would still be interesting but

1:14:31

i'm in the interest of time and gonna need to

1:14:33

wrap it up but where can people check

1:14:35

out the new book the and communist

1:14:38

manifesto met on communist

1:14:40

manifesto

1:14:41

so if i'm depending on when

1:14:43

this is released a we the book will

1:14:45

be launching an amazon on the first of august

1:14:47

so that the day to keep an eye out for but

1:14:49

a if we've we've actually we got

1:14:52

the best domain uncommon as dot com i

1:14:54

couldn't believe those are available so if

1:14:56

a people jump on uncommon as dot com if

1:14:58

this comes out like a day before or whatever

1:15:01

the the actual launch they can pop

1:15:03

their email in there and there'll be notified of when

1:15:05

it goes live and what what we just asked

1:15:07

from people is like look

1:15:09

pirated do whatever you want but if if

1:15:11

you can support the book and

1:15:13

if you do buy it please

1:15:16

leave a review could if we hit that sort

1:15:18

of bestsellers list that the

1:15:20

message or spread or spread bit further and and and we

1:15:22

genuinely think like we rode it so that it's

1:15:24

concise digestible and easy to read

1:15:27

it's not daunting marks it'll

1:15:29

take an hour to read and if people can really

1:15:33

take the time to it to

1:15:35

leave a review that's probably the most important thing

1:15:37

like verified reviews so that a

1:15:39

a 's assuming add value obviously done if you if

1:15:41

you think it's a palestinian crap don't

1:15:43

crap don't reviews all leave a review tell

1:15:45

us a but that that sort

1:15:47

of what we're looking for because i'm we we

1:15:49

genuinely want to get this out so that's yet

1:15:52

on communist dot com you'll

1:15:54

be you'll be notified and it'll

1:15:56

be on amazon on the festive

1:15:58

august

1:15:59

amazing fifty

1:16:01

mark most thank you so much for joining me on the show

1:16:03

spinner honor talking about to be gentle

1:16:06

good thank you brother