This is the one hundred and fifty-first episode of Public Interest Podcast with Peter Franchot, Democratic Comptroller of the State of Maryland, member of the Board of Public Works, former Delegate representing District 20 in Montgomery County, former Capitol Hill staffer, attorney, former Democratic nominee for Congress, former delegate to the Democratic National Convention in 2008, 2012, 2016, and U.S. Army veteran. Franchot, a self-styled fiscal watchdog and warrior for the public interest, speaks about elected office as a noble profession in which empathy, compromise, and independence are virtues that he hopes will reverberate across society, generating a future generation of public servants.

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PETER FRANCHOTis the Comptroller of the State of Maryland. Peter is also amember of the Board of Public Works. He's a former Democratic delegaterepresenting District 20 in Montgomery County, Maryland, is a former CapitolHill staffer, an attorney, and a veteran of the United States Army. He's aformer delegate to the Democratic National Convention in 2003, 2012, and againin 2016, and is also a former Democratic nominee for the United StatesCongress.

Franchot: I have been a warrior forpublic interest issues all my life. I think my mother taught me always to standup the police and in school and I always felt much better when I was stickingup for some of the kids that were not good athletes, so that is the genesis ofmy altruism that I've carried forward in my public career.

Nowthat I'm Comptroller I find that every day I am working in the public interestprimarily by helping individuals who are in financial situations that aredifficult and complicated but also in being available as a state electedofficial.

Cooper: After college you enlistedin the United States Army, which is associated with more politically conservativeindividuals, yet you made a career out of serving as a liberal elected official.How did you end up in the Army with such liberal views?

Franchot: Well I actually didn'tfinish college. I was at Amherst College and halfway through my sophomore yearI dropped out to go to New Hampshire to work on the “Clean with Gene” campaignwith Gene McCarthy who was running in the 1968 Democratic Primary on ananti-Vietnam War platform.

Ironically,while organizing college campuses against the war for Gene McCarthy, I got adraft notice saying: “Dear Sir, You no longer are protected by your collegeinvolvement and you are to report for the draft law,” which was a shock to me.

Cooper: You left college to join apolitical campaign because of the anti-Vietnam war platform of those campaigns.And by virtue of your civic activism you actually ended up getting embroiled inthe war.

Franchot: My parents actually said Iwas pretty clueless that I didn't realize I was giving up my student defermentbut such as it is it actually in retrospect proved to be a tremendousexperience. I was drafted for two years. I spent 21 months not 24 monthsbecause I was allowed to get out early to return to college. But the Army was agreat experience for me not in the sense that I enjoyed it but I was put on atroop train in New York City and sent down to Fort Jackson, South Carolina withthe other draftees, who were a different group of people than those with whom Iwas previously associated in my life.

Cooper: Despite your experience inthe Army, you’ve never seemed to use your experience and your status as a veteranto your political advantage as have others, most notably former Lt. GovernorAnthony Brown in his 2014 bid for Governor. Why?

Franchot:I didn't have the kind of long-term career that Lt. Governor Anthony Brown had;I was just a very ordinary cog in a very big machine. But I will say that themachine the military proved to be enormously beneficial to me as an individualand I would recommend the military as a terrific stabilizing force for youngpeople who are looking for direction in life.

Cooper: So running off that idea,Peter I'd like to ask your opinion on a matter that you don't have jurisdictionover as a comptroller but that you might have theoretically had jurisdictionover the course of your 20 years representing the People's Republic of TakomaPark in the Maryland House of Delegates.

Asyou know, many nations in Western Europe and perhaps in other parts of theworld have service requirements for their youth. Military conscription issomething that's widespread around the world and that clearly led to your experiencesin the U.S. Army. My question is do you think that there ought to be either mandatoryrequirements or guaranteed opportunities for all youth between certain ages toeither join the military or perform some other form of civil public service?

Franchot: I generally support thatconcept. I think it should be mandatory that every young person puts at least ayear of their lives towards some constructive public purpose by serving in themilitary, teaching in a school, or being involved in some other fashion insupporting our infrastructure. And I would like to see veterans included insome leadership capacity. I don't suggest that everybody has to go through bootcamp, but I do think it's an opportunity to install some structure, discipline,and to give a sense of purpose to some young people's lives, [which is] particularlyimportant now [since] the economy is changing in front of our eyes [under theinfluence of] globalization and modernization using technology. [As a result] alot of jobs are being eliminated, which is causing a tremendous amount ofdislocation in the country and around the world. I think that a mandatory oneor two year program for young people where they are involved in some kind ofpublic interest activity would give them the chance to learn about the neweconomy rather than the old one.

Cooper: And the one thing that kidslack when they leave high school or college is professional experience and perhapsone of the greatest obstacles to finding entry-level employment is a lack of professionalexperience. A mandatory service project will give them the opportunity to dothe give back to a state that has given them so much. This service experiencewill complement a free public education by providing youth with an opportunityto gain real on-the-job experience that will make them more marketable in thenew economy.

Franchot:To finance this national effort [taxes could be levied on industries composingthe new economy] or it could be some kind of national or state equivalent ofwar bonds where you ask people to participate.

Cooper:But the key is that such a program would include every person between 18and 25. That would provide youth with one to two years of skill-building whileteaching them how to show up on time for a job and demonstrating what it takesto hold a job in the private sector.

Franchot:I think it's more imperative now because this whole job situation ischanging. Driverless cars [may replace] taxi cab drivers and it may be possiblefor robot [drones] to deliver food at a restaurant. I know it's a little bitfar-fetched but we're in the process of replacing people in the workforce withmachines. So we have to come up with new jobs and new ways of employing people,especially young people. And so I think you're onto something there with themandatory service requirement but the jury's still out on how to pay for it, howit's structured, and what exactly a job of the future will look like.

Cooper: So I’d like to transitionback to the topic of you being Comptroller. We've just been discussing how tofind jobs, gain job experience, and how to pay for it. But once someone has ajob, they pay income taxes and the Comptroller collects those revenues. So I'dlike to ask you to define the role of the Comptroller?

Franchot:The Comptroller of the State of Maryland is a statewide elected position,which makes it somewhat unique since many other states do not have electedcomptrollers; instead most states have appointed budget officers. [The roleComptroller of Maryland] was established in 1851 to oversee the finances of thestate. The state was in bankruptcy because the bank and the Treasury made allsorts of unwise investments and so they created in the state constitution theposition of comptroller. I'm the chief fiscal officer of the state according tothe Constitution. As [Maryland’s] fiscal steward I 1) collect all taxes, 2) process3.2 million tax returns each year, 3) am heavily involved in issuing taxrefunds, and 4) am responsible for fighting tax fraud, which is an emergingproblem. Those are the core responsibilities of the office.

I'm additionallya member of the Board of Public Works (BPW) which is an extremely powerful entityin Maryland and is unique in the country as a three person panel that alsoincludes the governor and the state treasurer. [The governor and I] happen tocome from different parties. He's a Republican and I'm a Democrat. TheTreasurer is elected by the legislature. This panel approves 9-10 billiondollars in state contracts every year. We meet every two weeks and it's anenormous kind of clearing house of taxpayer funding for different contracts.

Cooper: You mentioned that you siton the BPW and you alluded to the fact that you sit on the Board with thegovernor and the Treasurer, the Treasurer being Nancy Kopp, a Democrat, alongsideyou, a Democratic Comptroller, with both of you being joined by Republican GovernorLarry Hogan. You previously mentioned that in the House of Delegates yourepresented a very liberal, progressive, somewhat socialist-leaning constituencyin the Takoma Park and Silver Spring area of Montgomery County. Since Governor Hoganwas elected in 2014 you and he have come, at least in the public eye, to havequite a personal friendship and furthermore you seem to have forged asuccessful working relationship together.

Your relationship is especially striking when juxtaposedto the tenuous and slightly acrimonious relationship between the legislatureand Governor Hogan and when juxtaposed to your previous stances while a part ofthe legislature under the previous Republican Governor, Bob Ehrlich. To many itwould seem that your views have evolved into more moderate positions. Could youelaborate on the gradual evolution of your political identity and how thatoccurred within the confines of realpolitik requiring you to work across partylines on the BPW?

Franchot:[As] Comptroller I have some independence from the political machineto which I ordinarily [would] have had allegiance [as a legislator]. [I hold] astatewide [elected] office [and voters] expect someone who [holds this officeto be] fiscally moderate and independent of normal political machinations. [Thatof course comes with caveats;] if you become someone who is harmful to andopposed to your own party's values [then] I suppose you might be subject todefeat in a primary election.

ButI follow two truths. One truth that I hold very strongly is that [in electedoffice I must always be] working in the public interest, as [being] an electedofficial is a noble profession. And the second truth [that] I follow is thatthere's nothing wrong with bipartisanship. And so during my tenure as ComptrollerI have actively tried to drop the partisanship except when it gets aroundelection time. I have tried to be independent, which I guess is the word that Iwould use to describe myself.

Andsince the election of Governor Hogan two years ago, yes, [he and I have] formeda friendship but it's mostly around moderate fiscal policies where we have astrategic partnership on the Board of Public Works. I think it's single-handedlybeen a relationship that has resulted in the fiscal house of the State ofMaryland being put into much better shape. I don't want to take too much creditfor doing things on the Board of Public Works, but on things such as stateprocurement we have significantly reduced single-bidder procurement awards.This is that important because [without this reform] the incumbent vendor [generallywins state contracts], taxpayers [have no sense of whether or not] they'regetting a good deal, [and] there's no transparency, there's no competition, andthere's no accountability.

Sotogether, Governor Hogan and I significantly cut down on the number of singlebidder contracts and that's good for the State of Maryland. Unfortunately itoften gets mischaracterized as sleeping with the enemy. [I’ve been focusing on]getting results [that benefit] the people and I think [that] it's [been] wellreceived by the public. [And I’ve been] elected three times and each time I'vegotten more votes than anyone else in that election. And I'm now going to be onthe ballot again in 2018.

Cooper:I'd like to ask about your work as comptroller where you try toidentify and penalize tax cheats, reduce cigarette smuggling, and the illegal saleof alcohol and fuel. As Comptroller, you’re fond of claiming that you'reclosing corporate tax loopholes and of characterizing yourself as a fiscallyresponsible, independent fiscal watchdog. However these were not the manner inwhich you characterized yourself when you campaigned for or worked within theHouse of Delegates. Given those differences, how has it come to pass that youdecided to run for comptroller against the incumbent former Governor ofMaryland, William Donald Schaefer?

Franchot:Well let me be really honest and say that the iconic former Mayor ofBaltimore, Governor of Maryland, and two-term Comptroller didn't very much likeme running against him and, ironically, I ran against him on a [platform] thatI was a real Democrat and that he wasn't because he had gotten so close to PresidentGeorge H.W. Bush and other national Republicans.

Ihave moved to the center on fiscal issues because of the nature of the job. Theexpert briefings that I receive on economic issues have caused me to come morein the center on fiscal issues. And have been very well received by the votersnot just around the state but frankly also in District 20, my old liberaldistrict, [proving] that it is a myth that liberal Democrats are somehow not concernedabout fiscal matters; they are and they're very concerned about their ownbudgets, their own small businesses, and about fiscal matters in politics. [However]the state Democratic Party does not focus on [fiscal responsibility] andinstead focus on issues that are very important like discrimination and guncontrol, which are issues that I've worked on, but those are more culturalissues than they are economic issues. And so that's the reason that I've movedto the center on fiscal issues but I remain an absolutely rock solid Democrat myentire life.

Cooper:I'd like to ask you a final question Peter, which is to speak to thetaxpayers of the State of Maryland and explain why being a politician is anoble profession. Elaborate upon how you have managed to become independent, actin accordance with what you believe is in the best interest of the public, and whyyou've been motivated to serve the public interest for the past three decades.

Franchot:Well I enjoy the opportunity to make a difference. And I'm veryhonored and very privileged to have been the comptroller for the last 10 years.It's a large statewide office and there are very few of them in Maryland. [Beingcomptroller] gives me an opportunity to do the right thing for people and I'mgrateful to the voters for letting me do that.

Recentlywe helped an elderly woman in western Maryland who we found had fallen waybehind on her taxes and she owed quite a sum of money in back taxes. We put heron a payment plan, which I believe [came out to] five dollars every other week.And my staff came to me and said, “Sir with all due respect, the woman is goingto have to live to be 142 to pay off all of her back taxes.” And I said that'sfine. I understand that but we're not here to make her life miserable. Shedoesn't feel right about falling behind on her taxes but we're not going to [extract]a pound of flesh from her because she didn't have very much money. We're simplygoing to put her on a payment plan that she can afford. It's that ability toinject myself into situations where the bureaucracy might otherwise be harsher thanI would be where I can supply some of the empathy that I value so highly. [Regardingyour question about whether] politics is a noble profession, [my answer is]absolutely, and it's harder than you think.

Nowwhat happened recently in politics [with the 2016 Presidential election] is alittle troubling to me because the hyper partisans on either side have [taken]control of their [respective] parties. [While] I do not believe that DonaldTrump should be President of the United States because he is a reckless, impulsive,volatile, and frankly a dangerous individual, I do not believe that hisfollowers should be punished, confronted, orshouted at by [the DemocraticParty].

[Instead]we need to get [Trump] supporters and Hillary Clinton supporters together andhave them talk more to each other so that we don't end up having neighborshating neighbors because of who they support politically. And I am positive thatI can play a positive force in urging people to fight the emotions of the day andto try to be rational, level headed, and empathetic. And I've already indicatedmy opinion that no one should be treated with disdain or hatred simply becausethey are Republican; we can either support or oppose the President and stillinteract with your neighbors and friends. I hope to play a calming role [in thecurrent political environment].

Cooper:That has been Peter Franchot, the Comptroller of the State ofMaryland who speaks about a noble tradition of public service through electedoffice or otherwise, from his time on the front lines as a campaigner, as anadvocate for environmental issues alongside Ralph Nader, and who speaks aboutthe importance of having empathy for those with whom one differs. He calls forgreater civility and respect in the national dialogue as together turn to face themany challenges facing our great nation. Peter is a man who is willing to bepragmatic when it comes to advancing the public interest and he's willing toput aside any sort of reservation he may have with another's approach to thepublic interest and find compromise because, for Peter, as we've heard beforewith other interviewees half a loaf is better than no loaf at all. And makingsure that everyone gets a fair shake and that we humanize the political process,for example by enabling a woman of limited means to feel like she isresponsible and she's being fair and that she's being treated fairly by thestate. Peter is someone who seeks to raise the path of public service tosomething of a noble calling and that is why he touts the benefits ofbipartisanship and empathy as he recounts his lifelong path of public service.