0:00

Welcome to the Practical Growth podcast

0:02

with me , ebi Johnson , author

0:04

, nlpmp and cognitive reappraisal

0:07

coach . This is the podcast

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created for people like you , people

0:12

looking for more , more

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health , more peace , more

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happiness . Each week I

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explore new topic in pop psychology

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and help you build a better life and

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better relationships . Join

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me for special guests , exciting ideas

0:26

and practical advice that you can use to

0:28

improve your life from the inside

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out . Let's get into it . Hello

0:35

, hello , hello my lovelies , it's me

0:37

Ebi , your favorite

0:39

podcaster , your favorite author

0:41

, writer , tick tock coach . And

0:43

we are back back , back for

0:46

season three of the Practical Growth podcast

0:48

. I bet you didn't think you'd

0:50

live to see it , but here we are and

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we are starting this next leg of the journey

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off very strong with a topic that everyone

0:57

, everyone , has been buzzing about

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for days and days , and days and days . That's

1:02

right , we are going to be talking about Jonah

1:04

Hill's text messages . But

1:06

wait , wait , wait , wait . Before you roll your eyes

1:09

or complain or think that this is just

1:11

some other stupid , superficial celebrity

1:13

scandal , you need to pay

1:15

attention heads up . These text

1:18

messages from Mr Jonah Hill have been a revelation

1:20

, a revelation across multiple communities

1:22

, but no community more so than

1:24

those who have experienced narcissistic

1:28

abuse at the hands of a romantic partner

1:30

. That is right . These text

1:32

messages could potentially be a great example

1:34

of that and a great learning opportunity . So

1:36

that's what we're going to look at today . Starting off strong

1:39

these text messages . Why do they

1:41

matter , and what are

1:43

boundaries actually , and how can

1:45

we set healthier boundaries in our relationships

1:47

? So let's just jump right in the

1:49

Jonah Hill text . If you've been living under

1:51

a rock and you haven't heard about this , or you don't know

1:53

who Jonah Hill is , I'll just give you a really quick breakdown

1:56

of everything that's been going on so that you can really get

1:58

the gist of what we're going to be discussing

2:00

next . About a week ago

2:02

, professional surfer Sarah

2:04

Brady released text messages from

2:07

her time in a relationship with actor

2:09

Jonah Hill , who was in films like Superbad

2:11

. These texts were pretty shocking

2:14

. So there was no overt physical

2:16

abuse , but essentially there's a lot

2:18

of back and forth between Jonah and Sarah

2:20

in which he's saying really deplorable things to

2:22

her about you can't wear bathing suits

2:24

, you can't post pictures in bathing suits , you can't wear bathing suits , you can't

2:26

be around men , you can't be around women

2:28

from your past , because those are my

2:31

boundaries and if you do any of those things

2:33

, I'm going to leave you , okay

2:35

, really manipulative text messages . I'll

2:37

read just a few of them for you really quickly . So here's an example

2:39

of one of those text messages , just one of these

2:41

really long , verbose text messages that Jonah sent

2:44

to Sarah regarding her

2:46

Instagram and her job as a professional

2:48

surfer and surf instructor . Jonah

2:51

writes plain and simple if you need surfing

2:53

with men , boundaryless , inappropriate

2:55

friendships with men to model

2:57

, to post pictures of yourself in bathing

3:00

suit , to post sexual pictures

3:02

, friendships with women who are in

3:04

unstable places and from your wild

3:06

recent past , beyond getting a lunch or a

3:08

coffee , I'm not the right partner

3:10

for you . If these things bring you a place

3:13

of happiness , I'll support it , but they're

3:15

my boundaries in a relationship . Essentially

3:18

, this is what it comes down to over and over again . Of

3:20

course , some of the texts are more graphic than others

3:22

. It's Jonah telling Sarah

3:24

what he wants her to do , what

3:26

he wants her to not do , and a lot of it has

3:28

to do with covering her body , staying

3:30

away from men and staying away

3:32

from anyone else who triggers Jonah's insecurities

3:35

. Now there's both reasons why we should

3:37

be paying attention to this , and there are reasons

3:39

why this is so bad and a lot of that overlaps

3:42

with each other . The important

3:44

part of these is because the behaviors that we are seeing

3:46

here if you're someone who's been in a narcissistic

3:49

relationship , you will know a lot

3:51

of these feel very , very similar

3:54

. These are the kinds of subtle

3:56

, coercive emotional

3:58

manipulations that are used against

4:01

partners in these one-sided

4:03

relationships in order to gain control

4:05

and to bring that

4:07

one partner down to the level of the

4:09

more insecure partner . That's why we see

4:12

behaviors like this so commonly in a narcissistic

4:14

relationship , because fundamentally , narcissistic

4:17

people are insecure

4:19

and that insecurity is what drives

4:22

the rest of their really really toxic

4:24

, controlling , demanding , demeaning , delusional

4:27

behaviors . What's really bad about

4:29

these text messages is there's

4:31

a lot of misogyny . There's a lot of misogyny

4:34

tied into these text messages , and that

4:36

is always when you look at that pattern

4:38

is always linked to narcissism

4:40

, especially in American culture . So much

4:42

of that American misogyny that we

4:45

see in relationships where the man gets to be the dominant

4:47

partner who calls all the shots , makes all

4:49

the demands and kind of brings down

4:51

a powerful woman to make her weak . Those

4:54

are tied so often to these narcissistic

4:56

tendencies . Right , because it has to do with delusion

4:58

. It has to do with superiority

5:01

with no evidence , right . Narcissists

5:03

always think that they should just be entitled

5:05

to being in control because they're the best , even though they

5:07

have no evidence of being the best right

5:09

. They've got none of the superlatives that come with that . So

5:12

these are things that we can kind of see patterns

5:14

of similarities within these text

5:16

messages exchanged between

5:18

Jonah and Sarah . Now , there's really

5:21

three big reasons why these texts matter

5:23

and why anyone listening to this podcast , anyone

5:25

who follows me on TikTok , who reads my articles

5:27

on Medium , who buys my books online

5:30

or in the flesh there's three

5:32

big reasons why you should pay attention to

5:34

this and you should kind of pay

5:36

attention to the lessons inside , and that's this . Number

5:39

one these text messages are

5:41

a glaring example of weaponized

5:44

insecurity . Weaponized

5:46

insecurity when a toxic , manipulative

5:48

, machiavellian , narcissistic person

5:50

takes their fears and

5:52

uses it against someone else to bring them down

5:54

. Now number two it

5:57

could potentially be an example

5:59

of a narcissistic person

6:01

weaponizing therapy , which we talk about over

6:03

and over again , and I'll break down more here in a second

6:05

. And last but not least , we're

6:07

seeing so many different shades , so

6:10

many different shades of modern misogyny

6:12

which , again , you cannot separate from narcissism

6:14

when you see the similarities in the pattern . So

6:16

let's get into that first bit there , that weaponized

6:19

insecurity . Over and over in these text

6:21

messages we see Jonah essentially telling

6:24

Sarah that she needs to stay away from men which

6:26

there's just so many shades of insecurity in

6:28

that and that she needs to conceal

6:31

her body because he just presumably

6:33

wants it for himself and

6:35

that she needs to modify behaviors

6:38

in a way that would make her unhappy

6:40

but make him happy . Right , that's the

6:42

only compromise he wants . He stopped doing these things

6:44

that bring you a source of joy and power , because

6:47

I want to possess you . And

6:49

that is weaponized insecurity

6:52

. Jonah's fears become his

6:55

demands over her love life . Instead

6:57

of actually working on his fundamental

6:59

insecurities and being secure enough in himself

7:01

and his relationship to be like , yeah , congratulations

7:03

on that surf contest , I don't care who you did it with

7:05

, he goes no , no

7:07

, I'm going to just make you change your

7:10

life . You'll see . Narcissistic people

7:12

, toxic people , insecure

7:15

people use this over and over and over again , because

7:17

it's really hard to kind of look inside , face

7:19

the demons and deal with the insecurities

7:21

, to just accept your body as it is and

7:23

know that you're not always going to be the prettiest person

7:25

in the room , right , but these

7:27

people . That's too hard . So what they

7:29

would rather do is bring someone down

7:31

to their level because they're not actually

7:33

secure enough to stand on their

7:36

own or to stand with a partner

7:38

who is completely secure . So an insecure partner

7:40

is going to try to make an insecure

7:42

partner . Now number two , that next really

7:44

glaring example that you can learn from that

7:46

you can take examples from inside

7:49

of this whole situation , especially to my

7:51

eye , is you know

7:53

, we talk , I get asked

7:55

so much , can narcissists be cured

7:57

? Can narcissists be cured ? My narcissist

7:59

is so much better . Or I follow this

8:02

healed narcissist on TikTok . What

8:04

do you think about that ? And let's just be honest

8:07

, so

8:09

many of Jonah's messages are wrapped

8:11

in therapy . Speak , right . He says these are my boundaries , you're

8:15

triggering me . That is disrespectful

8:18

. He uses

8:20

all these kind of like therapy , pseudo therapy

8:22

, buzzwords , right . And

8:24

we know from the show that he just produced with his

8:26

you know , questionable therapist

8:29

that he's

8:32

done a lot of therapy . And that's what we see here . We

8:34

see someone taking terminology

8:36

, concepts , even that they have learned in

8:38

therapy and weaponizing it against

8:40

another person to shame them , to

8:43

guilt them , to manipulate them , to make them

8:45

feel inferior , to question

8:47

their fundamental sense of

8:49

self within a relationship

8:52

. This is what

8:54

you see when a narcissistic person

8:56

goes to therapy . This

8:59

is why , when you go to the Mayo

9:01

Clinic's website and you look

9:03

at treatment options for narcissists

9:06

, there's not a lot of evidence that

9:08

narcissists can be treated . With

9:10

that in doubt . They cannot be cured . That's

9:12

a fundamental fact . Some people question

9:15

if they can be

9:17

treated and so many can't because

9:19

of examples like this of

9:21

going into therapy and using it as a weapon against

9:24

others , never actually doing any real self-reflection

9:27

or personal accountability

9:29

. Narcissistic people

9:31

talk to people love , love to do

9:33

this if they even stay in therapy at all . This

9:37

is why narcissism is so hard to treat and

9:39

you have to question as well Therapists

9:44

are people . Therapists are human beings and they are human

9:46

beings who are just as likely to be narcissistic

9:48

as someone else . What happens when

9:50

a narcissist goes to a narcissist for treatment

9:53

? I don't know . Maybe we're looking at

9:55

an example of that . Last but not least

9:57

, I would be remiss without mentioning this because , again

9:59

, american misogyny and narcissism

10:01

100% bed

10:04

buddies . They're basically the same thing . We

10:06

are seeing that misogyny play out not

10:09

only in Jonah's interactions with

10:12

women , but in the reaction

10:14

of his fans and the reaction of the public

10:16

because so many people have been so quick to

10:19

defend this behavior , which is indefensible

10:21

. It's indefensible . It's

10:23

fine if Jonah wants to basically date a

10:26

1600 Puritan who also has

10:28

to cover her face in a veil , but

10:32

he can't say that's a boundary . That's not a boundary

10:34

. That's his demands . What

10:36

we're seeing is misogyny . We are seeing a man who

10:39

believes he has a right to control the

10:41

woman he's in a relationship with . It's

10:43

very much an entitlement . It's someone

10:45

who sees relationships as a possession

10:48

and says I

10:50

now possess your body , I possess your

10:52

social media , I possess your career

10:54

. If you want me , I am the prize

10:56

. You will conform , and

10:59

that's unacceptable . It's 2023

11:01

. It's not 1954

11:03

. It's not 1852

11:06

. It's not 1093 . It's

11:08

2023 . And

11:11

it's time for every single human being to understand

11:13

that , no matter who the other human

11:15

being next to you is in relation to you , you

11:17

have 0.0%

11:21

right to control

11:23

them , to call the shots over

11:25

anything they do , even

11:27

if they're going to do the most stupid , ridiculous

11:30

thing , even if you're scared that they are going

11:32

to cheat on you . You don't have a right to control

11:34

any of that . The only thing

11:36

you can control in this world is yourself

11:39

and maybe your dog , but

11:42

that's it . And what we see in

11:44

this reaction ? It's just plain misogyny

11:46

. I am entitled to control

11:49

you , right , because you're in

11:51

my environment and I control my environment . Who

11:53

else does that ? What

12:30

a narcissistic parent act that way . What

12:32

about a narcissistic partner ? Again

12:35

, hand in hand , the big , the

12:37

big , you know . Defense

12:40

, I suppose , is what you could call it . That has come

12:42

up from these Jonah Hill messages that these are boundaries

12:44

. Because that's what Jonah says over and over again . Anytime

12:47

his partner , sarah Brady

12:49

, gets upset or questions what he's doing , he says

12:51

these are my boundaries and you can either do it

12:53

or I'll leave you . Okay

12:55

, that's what all these text messages come down to . And

12:58

those aren't boundaries . Those aren't boundaries

13:00

. Everyone is saying that's a boundary

13:02

. Has a right to want those things . Okay

13:04

, it's not a boundary . Boundaries are lines

13:06

that we set for ourselves . It's circles that

13:08

we draw around the things that are

13:10

important to us . So

13:13

a boundary is

13:15

only observed by you

13:17

. Someone else gets informed of the boundary

13:19

and they can decide to to respect

13:21

it or not . The action

13:23

happens on your part , your

13:25

part . If that boundary you feels being violated

13:28

, it's on you to leave . Boundaries

13:30

are your lines , not someone else's

13:32

Boundaries , inside of healthy

13:34

relationships also work to

13:37

delineate things like personal

13:39

space right To draw the line between this

13:41

is my space , this is your space , this is how much

13:44

alone time I need . This is how much togetherness

13:46

I would like to have , without

13:48

the loss of identity , but still feeling like I'm

13:50

getting what I need and want out of this partnership

13:53

. It would also include things like sexual

13:56

boundary lines . I'm willing to do this , I'm

13:58

interested in this , I'm curious in this . I

14:00

have these kinds of needs what are your

14:02

needs ? And then reacting

14:04

accordingly , not using them as a threat

14:06

. All boundaries

14:09

in a relationship are conversation

14:11

Okay , they need to be a conversation

14:13

and then according reactions

14:15

from the people that hold the boundaries

14:18

. That is how these things work . It's not

14:20

one person saying this is the , this

14:22

is my boundary . You do it and

14:24

you notice that in Jonah's text there's never a question

14:27

of like what's your boundaries ? It's

14:29

very much . This is what I want . You will do

14:31

it . It's a demand wrapped in this therapy

14:33

speak and that is why it's so

14:36

so , so , so dangerous . From a healed perspective

14:38

, when you take a second look at all

14:41

of these text messages that have been released , it

14:43

really looks different , right

14:45

, it really really shifts , especially

14:48

because you start to notice that on

14:50

Jonah's end of these conversations he

14:53

clearly violates the

14:55

five foundations of strong

14:57

and healthy boundaries and the like , the

14:59

five core components of creating

15:01

those better boundaries . And that is this . Number

15:04

one he's not really clear about what he wants

15:07

, right ? Because in all these text messages

15:09

he's responding to something that he's already

15:11

seen . That's triggered in insecurity and then

15:13

made him lash out and say , well , this is now my boundary

15:15

, don't do these things . It was

15:17

clearly not important to him until the insecurity

15:19

was triggered . So again , red

15:21

flag . Number two there's

15:23

no exchange of expectation . There's

15:26

absolutely no exchange of expectation

15:28

in this conversation . It's all Jonah dictating

15:31

to her what she will do or

15:33

he will leave her . That's always the threat right

15:35

, you will do this or I will leave you . And again

15:37

, very similar to the patterns that we see in

15:39

some narcissistic relationships , he

15:42

never makes space for her to

15:45

actually express her needs or

15:47

her boundaries . He just says if you

15:49

don't like this , fine , that's fine , I'll just

15:51

leave . It's never like what are yours . It's

15:53

never an open two way dialogue

15:55

, it's always one way . Number three

15:58

lines constantly

16:00

getting crossed , constantly getting

16:02

crossed . He curses at her , he

16:04

insinuates that she

16:07

is like weird or

16:09

awkward or socially inept . It's

16:11

really kind of cruel some of these messages , and

16:13

I can only imagine the ones that she hasn't released

16:15

. And so that again

16:17

, boundaries are fundamentally

16:20

about respect . You have enough respect

16:22

for yourself to communicate them

16:24

in an effective way , and then you have enough respect

16:27

to yourself for you to withdraw if

16:29

those boundaries are violated , and that's

16:31

, again , not what we're seeing here . Number

16:34

four boundaries

16:36

on both sides should always help to

16:38

cultivate confidence and self

16:40

respect . When you see these

16:42

text messages , there is no confidence

16:45

in them . It is 100% an insecure

16:48

little boy who is trying

16:50

to control the behaviors that make him feel

16:52

insecure in this beautiful , accomplished

16:55

, self possessed woman that he's

16:57

been lucky enough to attach himself to

16:59

. Okay , and there's no self

17:01

respect in it either . A self respecting man

17:03

, any self respecting

17:05

person , would not

17:08

try to control the

17:10

behaviors of someone else , the career , the

17:12

lifestyle of someone else , if it's a healthy lifestyle

17:14

and it makes that person happy . So

17:17

it was nothing to do with , again

17:19

, creating confidence in Jonah or

17:21

creating self-respect in Jonah . He just wanted

17:24

to control and punish another person . And

17:26

then , last but not least , we see

17:28

right a boundary again , if

17:30

that line you set for yourself and that you

17:32

walk away from if

17:35

you are disrespected . That's not happening

17:38

here . That's not happening here . There's

17:40

clearly been no talk , no exchange of

17:42

dialogue at the beginning of the relationship about what

17:44

the actual demands or expectations

17:47

or standards of the relationship

17:49

were . It's just people reacting in

17:52

insecurity and then using that insecurity

17:54

as a threat . No one was moving on . It was trying

17:56

to coerce different behaviors out of

17:58

his partner . You can't build a stable

18:01

and happy relationship on

18:03

that kind of dynamic , because

18:06

everything is going to go in the favor of one

18:08

person and their happiness and

18:10

their insecurities , and

18:12

that is not how any boundaries within a relationship

18:15

should work . And it's good on Sarah

18:17

, because obviously Sarah has come to a point

18:20

where she has realized the fundamental truth and this

18:22

listen up , double down . This

18:24

is the point . Pull out your highlighter and your pen

18:26

and your paper . Okay , sarah

18:29

has obviously realized that it doesn't matter anymore

18:31

. It doesn't matter how

18:33

he responds to her truth , it

18:35

doesn't matter how he

18:38

exerts these demands

18:40

on her . And that's really the ultimate

18:42

truth . Toxic people , narcissistic

18:45

people , are fundamentally

18:48

powerless . The

18:52

destruction they reap so much of it is

18:54

in our mind and in our hearts and

18:57

it stems from their

18:59

own fear of being

19:01

seen for who and what they are . They

19:04

are insecure and

19:06

because they are insecure , they want everyone

19:08

else to feel as insecure

19:10

and as powerless as they feel , and

19:13

we just give that to them . We allow them to

19:15

take that power from us

19:17

when in truth , they are powerless

19:20

. They are powerless . Sarah , standing up

19:22

now is empowering a whole generation

19:25

of women to not accept this behavior

19:27

, to not accept being spoken

19:29

to this way . It's inspiring

19:31

all of us not to be spoken to this way . This

19:34

is our opportunity to say

19:36

this isn't normal , it's unacceptable . These are

19:38

not boundaries and these are not how healthy

19:40

relationships work on any spectrum . So

19:43

what do you think ? You

19:47

know ? As exhausting as celebrity culture

19:49

is , moments like this could be powerful

19:51

learning opportunities for all of us , for everyone

19:54

the revelations

19:57

of Jonah's texts , jonah

19:59

Hill's texts . It's not an

20:01

isolated incident , it's not a rare

20:03

example . All of us

20:05

have experienced this at some point . What

20:08

happened between Jonah and Sarah is

20:11

indicative of millions and

20:13

millions and millions of relationships all

20:16

around the globe , not just in America , everywhere

20:18

. It is a brilliant example

20:20

, potentially , of twisted

20:23

one-sided power dynamics

20:25

, of narcissism

20:27

and what happens

20:29

when all of that collides

20:33

with open misogyny

20:35

For

20:38

those in abusive relationships , for people

20:40

escaping relationships with narcissistic

20:42

people . You know those

20:44

. If you haven't read those texts , just trigger

20:46

warning because

20:49

they're going to be all too familiar to you . In

20:51

fact , they stand

20:53

as a testament to what all of us have

20:55

experienced . That's

20:57

what's powerful here , and those

20:59

are the lessons that we need to take away , rather

21:02

than keeping ourselves comfortable and convenience

21:04

. In moments like this , when

21:07

masks get pulled away from abusers

21:10

, people that we perhaps adored at one time in our

21:12

lives , we get a

21:14

chance to see and embrace reality , and it's important that we do it in that moment

21:16

, because

21:19

that moment when we decide

21:21

to say , yeah , you know what this sucks , but I'm just going to swallow

21:24

it as it is , that's where change

21:26

happens . And this

21:28

, these text messages , these conversations that

21:30

we are now openly having around them , this

21:34

is an opportunity for all of us to change Both

21:37

the way we relate to others and

21:39

the way we allow others to relate to us

21:41

. Because , again

21:43

, boundaries if you

21:45

learn nothing else from this episode , learn

21:47

this boundaries aren't dictations

21:50

for other people , they

21:53

are limits for you , they

21:56

are set for you , no one

21:58

else . If

22:00

someone can't respect your boundaries , you

22:02

walk away . You don't wait for them to change

22:05

. You don't make more demands . That's manipulation

22:07

and that's dishonest . It's

22:11

time for all of us to be a little more emotionally

22:13

honest , don't you think ? Don't

22:17

you think our relationships could benefit from that ? Well

22:20

, that's the chance that we have right now . With

22:23

this dialogue , with these conversations

22:25

, you can go home and have these conversations

22:27

tonight . Let's

22:29

hope that everyone takes advantage of that and

22:32

that brings us to the end . That is

22:34

it . That is the first episode of

22:36

season three of the Practical Growth Podcast

22:38

. I hope you all learned something

22:40

. I hope you've been inspired . I hope this has shown

22:42

a light on something for you . Again

22:45

, I'm so grateful for every single one of you for being

22:47

here . If it did resonate and

22:50

you want to learn more about setting healthy boundaries in

22:52

your relationship , then make sure you head

22:54

over to therealebjohnsoncom . You

22:56

can apply for coaching with me . I

22:59

am launching an all new program this fall

23:01

and it is all about cognitive reappraisal

23:04

, which is one of the most powerful healing tools

23:06

out there . So make sure you head

23:08

over to therealebjohnsoncom . Get

23:10

this really hit home . And you want to get coached by me

23:12

? For everyone else , make sure

23:15

you've gone over to Apple Podcast . Leave me a quick

23:17

five star review . It really just helps

23:19

. It helps me kind of get

23:21

myself out there , get my work out there , and it

23:23

helps people find this . It

23:25

helps people like you find what they need . So

23:28

that's it . Leave a review

23:31

, if you haven't done so already , to everyone who has . Thank you so much

23:33

, and thank you to everyone else for listening

23:35

, for following me on Medium and for

23:38

following me on TikTok . I truly

23:40

, truly appreciate it . So

23:43

, yeah , that's it . Thank you again

23:45

. We will see you next week and until then , keep

23:48

your heads up , keep your eyes on the stars

23:50

and keep moving forward . Bye , bye .