0:02

Almost every day, Evelyn

0:05

watches the same video of her

0:07

daughter looking into the camera

0:09

and babbling. That

0:20

was one of my favorite videos because she's

0:22

using her voice. Last

0:24

fall, my colleague Amber Ferguson met up with

0:26

Evelyn while she packed for a trip. By

0:29

the way, we're only using Evelyn's first name to

0:31

protect her privacy. Evelyn

0:34

was finally going to see her baby in

0:36

person for the first time in almost a

0:38

year. I'm really excited.

0:42

I don't know if I'm nervous,

0:44

but excited definitely. I know I'm

0:46

going to cry because it's been

0:48

so long and I just hope

0:50

that she embraces

0:53

me. She's a baby, so I feel

0:55

like babies sometimes remember things, but sometimes they don't.

0:58

So we will see how that goes.

1:01

I'm excited. You

1:06

see, Evelyn placed her baby for

1:08

adoption. And now she

1:10

was on her way to see the adoptive mother

1:12

and her family, and most

1:14

importantly, her daughter, Olivia. Time has gone

1:16

by so fast, so seeing the pictures

1:18

and videos of her growing

1:23

up over the months, it's exciting to look at,

1:25

but now I get to see her in person

1:27

and hold her and touch her and

1:29

hug her. So that really means a lot to me. Despite

1:33

all the joy and excitement,

1:36

this moment almost didn't happen. This

1:39

adoption almost didn't happen. Baby

1:41

Olivia almost didn't happen because

1:44

Evelyn tried desperately to get

1:46

an abortion. In

1:52

the newsroom of The Washington Post, this is

1:54

Post Reports. I'm Martine Powers.

1:57

It's Thursday, April 25th. In

2:00

the nearly two years since Roe v. Wade

2:02

was overturned, abortion access has become

2:05

a patchwork in the United States. Depending

2:07

on where you live, the procedure might

2:09

be restricted or banned completely. If

2:12

you're pregnant and don't want to parent,

2:15

anti-abortion advocates often suggest adoption

2:17

as a solution. But

2:20

carrying a pregnancy and giving birth

2:22

and placing that baby for adoption can

2:25

be painful, and it can be complicated.

2:28

Today, we have a story that

2:30

I was drawn to because it's

2:33

just so nuanced. It

2:35

is about abortion restrictions. It's

2:38

also about disparities in the world

2:40

of fertility and about the state

2:42

of adoption in America today. And

2:45

to the two women at the center of

2:47

it, it's not a political story. It's

2:50

a story that is deeply personal. As

2:59

I said, this story was reported by my

3:01

colleague, Amber Ferguson. You'll hear her voice

3:03

first. Evelyn was

3:06

a college student in her early 20s when

3:08

she unexpectedly got pregnant in 2022. When

3:11

I first connected with Evelyn, the first thing she

3:13

told me was I wasn't doing much with my

3:16

life. She was on academic dismissal

3:18

for the third time. She was in community

3:20

college in San Antonio. And so because

3:23

she was on academic dismissal, she

3:25

had to sit up an entire year of

3:27

school. And she met

3:29

a guy on social

3:31

media. They dated for a few

3:33

weeks, and she got pregnant. She

3:39

told me the air out of her

3:41

body left her when she saw the

3:43

pregnancy test on her bathroom counter. And

3:45

she immediately knew she wanted to get an abortion.

3:49

So at the time that Evelyn was trying to

3:51

figure out what to do, she's

3:53

in Texas. There was a ban

3:56

on abortion after six weeks of

3:59

pregnancy. So what

4:01

happened? What happened when she went

4:04

to a clinic to try to get an

4:06

abortion? So after she

4:08

received the positive pregnancy test, she immediately

4:10

made an appointment. She went into

4:12

the clinic three days later after the positive

4:15

test, and she

4:17

was hoping she wasn't too far along. She

4:19

said that the waiting room was packed. She

4:22

found out she was six weeks and four days pregnant,

4:25

and they said that they couldn't help her,

4:27

but they could refer her to a clinic

4:29

in Oklahoma. So

4:35

she went to Oklahoma next? Yes.

4:38

So Evelyn is adopted herself,

4:41

and she was terrified to tell her

4:43

adoptive parents who she lived with. So

4:45

she called her birth mom, Tamala, who

4:48

lives close to the Oklahoma border. She

4:50

told her adoptive parents she was going

4:52

to visit Tamala, but

4:54

Tamala helped get her across state

4:56

lines to Oklahoma to do a

4:59

medical abortion. And so how

5:01

did that go for her? So

5:04

Evelyn was prescribed medication to start an

5:06

abortion, and she took it. She

5:08

bled, she cramped, she

5:11

had blood clots, and she thought it

5:13

was successful. The clinic advised her to

5:16

do a follow-up, but she thought that it

5:18

worked. So two or three months passed, and

5:20

she still hadn't gone her menstrual cycle, and

5:22

she took another pregnancy test, and to her

5:24

surprise, it was positive. And she

5:26

went to the clinic to confirm

5:28

it, and they said the

5:31

fetus was still growing. Oh my gosh.

5:33

How often does that happen, that people get

5:35

medical abortions that don't actually work? Three

5:37

percent of medical abortions fail when

5:40

gestation reaches 70 days or 10 weeks.

5:44

So after two attempts to get an abortion,

5:46

she was still pregnant. What

5:49

did she do then? So

5:51

Evelyn was desperate. She found a

5:53

website online that ships abortion pills

5:56

across the states, And

5:58

she bought pills that were available for her. We're

6:00

coming from India and about a week

6:02

later she took the pills see experience

6:04

cramping but there was no bleeding. She

6:07

emailed the company and they said for

6:09

her to take more. Tells them. But

6:11

she refused and want to keep doing more harm. So.

6:15

What was he thinking in that moment? Cd

6:17

release him to come in

6:19

to having an abortion, not

6:21

carrying this pregnancy to term

6:23

and to be met with

6:26

these failed attempts. What? Was I

6:28

like for her? She. Was petrified. One of

6:30

the main reasons why it's you want

6:32

to have an abortion. That's because she

6:34

felt she can cure for. This.

6:36

Child: Her parents adopted her when

6:39

they were. Older so they're in

6:41

their seventies now. I'm and

6:43

she says you know I wasn't working, I wanted

6:45

to finish school, I didn't have anything on my

6:47

own and I didn't want to put this on

6:49

my parents to raise this baby. And

6:52

after her third attempt didn't

6:54

work, she spent a couple

6:57

months just researching everyday. Had

6:59

a has. A leap

7:01

second trimester abortion. This whole time,

7:04

her parents didn't know she was

7:06

pregnant and the people closest to

7:08

her for friends didn't know she

7:10

was pregnant. And she sounds a

7:13

clinic in Albuquerque, New Mexico that

7:15

does allow leap second trimester abortions

7:17

and they told her it's can

7:20

be twelve thousand dollars. And

7:22

she said i don't have that money

7:24

and so they connect said heard A

7:26

to organizations and that gave her. Grants.

7:29

To pay. For her flight her food

7:32

her hotel for her to go

7:34

and she told her parents that

7:36

she was going across town to

7:38

San Antonio to visit a friend

7:40

but she bore a deflates a

7:42

New Mexico to try to have

7:44

an abortion again. Well.

7:46

And. That didn't work either. And

7:49

when she got there she was praying this

7:52

is her. Third, Fourth time now

7:54

praying as she kings had this abortion

7:56

times and at this point you know

7:58

she's feeling the baby. And

8:01

they say no. After they did the

8:03

ultrasound, he,

8:05

I remember seeing the look on the

8:07

doctor's face and he was like, I'm

8:09

sorry, we can't go through with abortion.

8:11

You're too far along for us to

8:14

do it. And I was crying. I

8:16

was scared. And that's when

8:18

it hit me right away that I was going to have,

8:20

you know, my baby and stuff. You

8:25

know, the fact that you said

8:27

she was adopted herself, why

8:29

wasn't that something that she considered more seriously

8:31

up to that point? It's

8:33

something I asked her a lot about. And

8:35

she said, I just did not want to

8:37

give birth. I did not want my parents

8:39

to know I was pregnant. I did not

8:41

want to give birth. And it wasn't

8:44

until she was faced with the reality that she

8:46

had to give birth that she

8:48

made the decision to choose adoption.

8:50

And she chose the same adoption

8:52

agency that her parents used. I

8:55

asked her several times, like, did you ever

8:57

think about parenting? And she said,

8:59

no, she said, I knew

9:02

where I am in my life. I did not

9:04

have the capacity to care for

9:06

this child. That never wavered. It

9:09

just makes me sad because it was like,

9:11

it was a hard time. It was very stressful. And

9:14

I didn't know what to do. And it

9:17

kind of seemed like it was like, I

9:19

didn't know how it was going to turn out.

9:22

In the moment I felt a lot of stress

9:25

and everything

9:27

kind of just felt like negative, especially since

9:30

I was having a baby by a person

9:36

that I didn't really know in that way. And

9:38

someone that had been

9:40

disrespectful towards me and I felt like I

9:42

was trapped. Wait. But

9:46

one thing I never did was blame

9:48

my baby for it. Because

9:52

it was never, it was never

9:54

false. And

9:56

then when it hit her that she was going to give

9:58

birth, it was like, I don't know, to have this

10:00

baby, she said, you know, I never want

10:03

to resent this baby. I never

10:05

wanted this baby to think

10:07

it was their fault. And she's like, I

10:10

want to give this baby the best life

10:12

possible. And the best life possible is not

10:14

with me. It sounds

10:16

like Evelyn was really resistant to talking to

10:18

her parents about this. But at some point,

10:20

it's kind of impossible to hide. What

10:23

was it like for her finally having

10:26

to have that conversation with her parents?

10:29

Evelyn was terrified. Evelyn was terrified to

10:31

have this conversation, but she could not

10:33

keep hiding it. And she sat her

10:36

mom down. And she was still too

10:38

terrified to tell her dad. So her

10:40

mom is the one who told her

10:42

dad, her dad was shocked. He

10:45

couldn't believe it. He said, Why

10:47

didn't you come to us sooner for help? At

10:49

this point, she had already contacted the caseworker to

10:51

start the adoption. And she's

10:53

like, I was just trying to do everything

10:56

on my own. And they said, we'll support

10:58

you in whatever decision you decide to make. So

11:00

I want to stop the story here and

11:04

switch points of view. Because while

11:06

all this is happening, there was another woman

11:09

two hours away in Houston, who

11:11

was ready to start a family. Tell

11:14

me about Carolyn Whiteman. Carolyn

11:16

Whiteman is a 44 year old woman

11:18

in Houston, Texas, who always wanted to

11:21

be a mom. In

11:23

2020, her dad was diagnosed with

11:25

prostate cancer. And she got tested

11:27

for the BRCA2 gene and she

11:29

tested positive, which puts her at

11:31

an increased risk for breast and

11:34

ovarian cancer. And her

11:36

doctor strongly advised her

11:38

to have her ovaries

11:40

and uterus removed by her mid 40s.

11:43

And Carolyn is single. She

11:45

always is expected to find someone and have

11:48

a baby. And her timeline was

11:50

moved up in 2021. She froze

11:52

her eggs twice. And she

11:54

was looking for a black

11:56

sperm donor. And She found

11:59

out that there's hard. The any less

12:01

than three percent of sperm donors

12:03

are black she didn't want. To

12:05

choose a donor for different race and

12:07

so cheap. Basically. Gave that

12:09

up. The I am

12:11

they're freezing my ads and then making

12:13

a decision. Series on a single mother

12:16

by choice was already a jump and

12:18

once I got there it was okay.

12:20

what's the next steps of his sperm

12:22

donor And then when I realized there

12:24

was a lack of lox from donors

12:26

the disappointment was was heavy because I

12:29

thought oh now here's another barrier I'm

12:31

gonna have to work through and I

12:33

just decided not to work through it.

12:35

I probably could have maybe lot harder

12:37

I probably said have decided to. Adams

12:40

continue looking. To as there are other women that

12:42

were able to find a donor spat. I.

12:45

I just that exhausted I was

12:47

tired and I said you know

12:49

why let me stop and pivot

12:51

and at the answer will come

12:53

to me and I just i

12:55

paused. And twenty, it's when it's your

12:57

after I published. A story about the shortest black

12:59

sperm donors. I received an email

13:02

from Carolyn see things V for my

13:04

story and said that she try to

13:06

find a box sperm donor and couldn't

13:09

and that's what let her down says

13:11

adoption path. When she emailed me in

13:13

October twenty twenty two she said diet

13:16

adoption was a struggle and that she

13:18

was going through the process and not

13:20

There are barriers. I'm a call

13:22

to adoption agencies here in Houston and it was

13:24

a phone conversation and I'm just call. To say

13:27

hello. My name is Carol and. I'm

13:29

interested in learning more about adoption and

13:31

they asked me to are you married

13:33

and I thought that was an interesting

13:35

person at a among several questions but

13:37

it was seen. are you married method

13:39

now and I'm sorry we didn't say

13:41

to anyone but married couples arm and

13:43

then there was another agency that men

13:45

send I would have to fund our

13:47

to have remarried and I'll have to

13:49

sign a pledge to raise the child

13:51

and a christian home which I had

13:53

no problem doing but it was says

13:55

interesting that it was tied to be

13:57

married so I knew. Those agencies weren't for

13:59

me. I'll admit, I was surprised that

14:01

I never heard of that been a

14:03

requirement that marriage was a requirement to

14:05

adopt. At this point having

14:08

reached out to all of these adoption

14:10

agencies and hearing look you're not who

14:12

are looking for lose her reaction than

14:14

what was she feeling. She. Felt

14:16

rejected. She already thought it was

14:19

such a struggle to find someone

14:21

romantically, it was already a struggle

14:23

to find a block sperm donor.

14:26

And now she's here. and there's

14:28

another obstacle where they're nice and

14:30

accepting her to be an adoptive

14:33

mother and. Carolyn says.

14:36

She was Ben Folds and she

14:38

was upset. She's like I did

14:40

everything right. I went to college,

14:42

I am a homeowner. I have

14:44

such as supporters group of family

14:46

and friends and and healthy and

14:48

I have the money to do

14:50

this that I saved up and

14:52

it's like no one wants me.

14:59

To them, what happened, what changed,

15:02

So. Then she contacts Gladney

15:05

Adoption Agency and it's

15:07

a months long process.

15:09

Home studies, interviews, background,

15:12

Checks and a suspect You

15:14

thousand dollars. Were

15:23

going into couples there but after

15:25

the break who hear how Carolyn

15:27

story intersects with Avalon's. Will

15:29

be right back. Suit

15:46

tell me about the experience than of

15:49

one had giving birth to her baby

15:51

daughter. So. Evelyn certs

15:53

having contractions at thirty six weeks,

15:56

and she initially thought. It was

15:58

gallbladder pain I guess. yet gallbladder is. She's

16:00

in the past and her mom is

16:02

a nurse and said, no honey, you're

16:04

having contractions. And so they drove to

16:06

the hospital and six hours later, Olivia

16:09

was born. Shortly after she

16:11

gives birth, the gluttony caseworker comes and

16:13

tells her how the adoption would work

16:15

and tells her she can take as

16:17

much time as she wants. And

16:20

Evelyn chooses five profiles of

16:23

families and she was

16:25

just so drawn to Carolyn's. She said

16:27

there was just a warmth about her.

16:30

I loved all the

16:32

pictures she had of her family and

16:34

her friends and how she spoils her

16:36

goddaughters. She later told me,

16:38

you know, I really wanted a black

16:41

woman to raise this child.

16:44

So later there was a Zoom that

16:46

was set up. They met over Zoom

16:48

and they just talked. They talked about

16:50

family time and spirituality and Carolyn, she

16:52

was on the board of Girls, Inc.,

16:55

which is like a nonprofit to teach

16:57

girls leadership. And Evelyn was

16:59

part of Girls, Inc. when she was younger.

17:01

And so they connected on that. Later

17:04

that day, there was a second Zoom and

17:07

her parents met Carolyn and

17:09

then literally eight hours later,

17:12

Carolyn gets a phone call that Evelyn chooses

17:14

her and she's about to become a mom.

17:17

Oh my gosh, what was Carolyn's reaction in

17:19

that moment? She was just

17:21

so happy. She was just like, finally.

17:25

So she has to get a stroller.

17:27

She has to make a registry. She got a

17:29

nanny. She just like has to buy all of

17:31

these things that most adoptive

17:34

parents would have a few months to gather.

17:36

And she does not have that time. The

17:38

baby's already born. And then

17:40

you have Evelyn who, she

17:43

never took Olivia home after she gave

17:45

birth. She thought it would be too difficult.

17:47

So she just stayed at the hospital the whole

17:49

time? Evelyn went back to

17:52

San Antonio. She went home and the baby

17:54

stayed in a placement home. Okay. And

17:57

so she is shopping with her

17:59

mom. and they get Olivia this

18:01

light pink dress for adoption day and

18:04

they go to the fabric store and she knits

18:06

the baby a blanket. And

18:09

then the day before the adoption, Evelyn

18:12

and Carolyn finally meet in person.

18:14

And at that point, Evelyn had

18:16

already signed the relinquishment rights. Did

18:19

everyone ever have a moment of

18:21

doubt about her decision after Olivia was

18:23

born? No, after she

18:25

gave birth, she was silent. And

18:29

she just looked down, she just automatically loved

18:31

Olivia. And she told me, I know I

18:33

really tried everything not to have her, but

18:36

I do love her. And so

18:38

her feelings immediately changed after she

18:40

gave birth and she loved this baby.

18:43

And it was incredibly difficult for her

18:45

to choose adoption. But she said, I

18:48

know this was what was best for me

18:50

and what is best for her. And she

18:52

said, I know Carolyn could give her everything.

18:55

I know I couldn't. What

18:57

was adoption day like? So

18:59

on the day of placement, which is adoption day,

19:02

they handed the baby to her and

19:04

she just sat with her and rocked her and

19:06

she was just crying. And she says, I love

19:08

you, I love you, I love you. You're

19:12

gonna have such a great life with Carolyn.

19:15

She kissed her on the forehead and

19:18

she told them, I'm

19:20

ready. And

19:23

she hands Olivia over to Carolyn

19:25

and they hug. Some gifts

19:28

are exchanged and they're kind of just getting to know

19:30

each other and they sat and they held hands for two

19:32

hours. And eventually

19:35

the room clears and it's just

19:37

Evelyn, Carolyn and Olivia. And

19:40

Evelyn turns to her and just kind of

19:42

shares a little bit about her story and

19:44

opens up. And she talks about how

19:46

she got pregnant and what her plans are and what

19:48

she wants to do. And she said, I try

19:51

to have an abortion a couple of times and

19:54

I really hope you won't judge me. And

19:57

Carolyn says, I would never judge you

19:59

for that. A lot of

20:01

decisions led us here and I

20:03

am so grateful. Aww.

20:10

How are they doing now? After

20:13

the birth of Olivia and after adoption day, it

20:15

was very difficult for her. She told me she

20:17

cried every day. She

20:20

slept with Olivia's baby

20:22

clothes from the hospital just to smell

20:24

her. And she

20:26

just kept telling her mom and her parents, like, I

20:29

really want this to motivate me. I

20:31

don't want this to take me further off track. And

20:34

so she wrote a letter to

20:36

the dean of the community college to ask

20:38

to come back. And

20:41

she finished the spring semester

20:43

with straight A's. And

20:46

she's like, I surprised myself so much.

20:48

And by that point, she had enough

20:51

credits and she was able to apply

20:53

to transfer to a four-year historically

20:56

black college outside of Houston. And

20:58

she was accepted and

21:00

she's studying criminal justice. She moved down

21:02

her own for the first time and

21:04

she has a roommate. And

21:07

she's like, every time I would like call her, she's

21:09

like, Amber, I'm going to Bible study or Amber,

21:11

I'm going to the gym. And

21:13

she's just like thriving and she's making

21:16

friends and she is happy. I

21:18

want to be someone that Olivia

21:20

looks up to and for

21:23

her to know that, you know,

21:25

I've continued going to school not

21:27

only for me, but for her as well so

21:30

I can be someone that she can

21:32

be inspired by and look up to

21:34

and for her to

21:37

hopefully want to pursue her education

21:40

so that she could go far as well

21:42

and do something that she loves to do. And

21:45

Caroline is finally a mom,

21:47

and she loves motherhood. I

21:49

mean, her life revolves around

21:51

Olivia and they did

21:54

an open adoption. There's a range of things

21:56

that that can mean, but for them, it

21:58

means that there's just really regular children. communication.

22:01

So Carolyn and Evelyn

22:03

and Anika, who is Carolyn's sister, are in

22:06

a group chat and they're

22:08

always sending pictures and

22:10

videos back and forth. And so

22:12

in their adoption contract, they

22:16

thought that they would meet once a year.

22:18

And so the first time that they met was in October.

22:21

She's like setting T-series. She's very observant.

22:25

I love that. We called it a dressing room. Thank you.

22:28

No! No! We're just

22:30

having a go. We just had a go. And

22:33

I got to witness for the first time Evelyn

22:35

seeing Olivia in almost a year

22:38

and it was extremely emotional. And

22:40

what was really beautiful about it

22:43

was that Evelyn's parents were there

22:46

and they're just so proud

22:48

of her. I was talking to her dad a lot and

22:51

he just said, you know, I

22:53

never thought I'd become a grandpa like this.

22:55

But he said, I'm so proud of Evelyn

22:57

and she could not have made a better

22:59

decision. I wondered

23:01

why Evelyn shared her story

23:03

with me. Evelyn never had

23:05

to tell anyone that she tried to get

23:08

an abortion. And I asked her, like, why

23:10

do you want your story out there? And

23:12

she said, I don't want any

23:14

other young woman to be placed in the

23:16

position I was in. And she said, this

23:18

was my path and I'm so glad Olivia

23:21

exists. I'm so glad I was able to

23:23

have her and get birth. But

23:25

what I did was dangerous. And

23:28

she doesn't want other women to go through what

23:30

she went through. Interesting. Because

23:32

I know the story

23:34

isn't about politics, right?

23:36

These are just the experiences of two women

23:38

and them coming together in this really remarkable

23:41

way. But I, you know, I can't

23:43

help but hear it and say, like,

23:46

this is the argument that

23:48

is given by anti-abortion advocates

23:50

of what the possibilities are

23:53

beyond abortion, that there are so many

23:55

people looking for children that the adoption

23:57

process can bring much

24:00

happiness to people and that

24:02

that could be an answer. So

24:06

I spoke to 10 adoption agencies

24:08

and states where adoption is banned

24:10

or restricted and eight of them

24:12

said we asked the birth moms,

24:14

you know, about how they got pregnant and the

24:17

majority of them say either

24:19

tried to get an abortion or I

24:21

wanted an abortion and I couldn't. I

24:23

mean, what happens when a woman can

24:25

either get an abortion because of state

24:27

laws and they can't parents.

24:30

What happens? You know,

24:32

either they parent and they really

24:34

struggle or they choose

24:37

adoption and basically

24:40

be forced to give birth

24:42

and then place that baby

24:44

up for adoption is extremely,

24:47

extremely difficult. Evelyn

24:49

never thought she would give birth and place

24:51

the baby up for adoption. But yet this

24:53

is the situation she found herself in because

24:55

she lived in Texas. So

24:58

what you're saying is that even though

25:00

Evelyn has come out of this experience

25:03

with so much gratitude for the baby

25:06

that she gave birth to and being

25:08

able to place that baby in the

25:10

arms of a loving woman,

25:12

Carolyn, that even with

25:15

all of that, that she still

25:17

thinks that her story is

25:19

not like the dream story that

25:21

anti-abortion activists are talking about. Not

25:24

at all. When we were fact checking this

25:26

story, the clinic she went to in San

25:29

Antonio has since closed. I needed to get

25:31

the name and she was Googling and she's

25:33

like, oh my God, it's closed. I can't

25:35

believe that they help so many women. And

25:38

then the clinic she went

25:40

to for Oklahoma to get the medical abortion,

25:42

it relocated to Chicago. Her stance

25:44

on the fact that women should have the

25:47

right to abortion is even stronger than it

25:49

was before. She knows that

25:51

it puts women in such a difficult position. I'm

25:54

curious where Carolyn stands on all of this.

25:56

Did you talk to her about how she

25:59

feels about abortion? access and whether

26:01

this changed her opinion? Carolyn

26:03

says abortion is health care. She

26:06

never judged Evelyn. She doesn't judge her. She

26:08

says, I'm so sorry you went through this.

26:10

You put yourself in a very dangerous position.

26:13

And she's very upset by that. She

26:15

said, you know, she is

26:18

so grateful for Olivia that Olivia is

26:20

healthy and that the abortion medications didn't

26:22

do anything to affect

26:24

her health. But she is very

26:28

sad for Evelyn that she had to go through that.

26:31

So to you, what is the

26:33

story about? Is this a story about

26:35

abortion laws and about women's health care?

26:38

Is it a story about like how

26:40

these narratives can be politicized

26:43

in the fight over abortion

26:45

rights? Or is

26:47

it about adoption and how we define family?

26:51

This is a complicated story.

26:54

Yes, it's about adoption. This

26:56

is the struggles that black

26:58

women face to become mothers.

27:01

I mean, if Carolyn

27:04

had access to a black donor, she

27:07

wouldn't have chosen adoption. But

27:09

when it comes to the abortion question,

27:12

it's just really about the length that

27:14

some woman will go to to obtain

27:16

an abortion and how it still might

27:18

not work. And I mean,

27:20

many things happen for Evelyn's abortion not

27:23

to be successful. She

27:25

was six weeks and four days and under

27:27

six weeks she got

27:29

medication that was ineffective twice

27:32

and she was also too

27:34

far along to obtain one safely. It

27:39

just shows that even though

27:41

a woman can try so hard to

27:44

make a choice for her body, there

27:46

are things, systems, laws, people in

27:48

place to prevent that. And so

27:51

they have to take alternative measures.

27:58

Amber, thank you so much for sharing this. story. Thank

28:01

you. Amber

28:08

Ferguson is a senior video editor for

28:10

The Post. If

28:12

you want to learn more about Evelyn

28:15

and Carolyn and Olivia and see photos

28:17

and videos of them and their reunion,

28:20

we will include links to Amber's story in

28:22

our show notes. Before

28:33

we go, here are a few other stories

28:36

I'm following today. The

28:38

Supreme Court heard oral arguments

28:40

this morning on an unprecedented

28:42

question of presidential immunity. The

28:45

justices are weighing whether former President

28:47

Donald Trump can be prosecuted for

28:49

actions he took while he was

28:51

in office to stay in power

28:53

after losing the 2020 election. And

28:55

in court, the justices appeared poised

28:57

to reject this claim of presidential

29:00

immunity. Conservative justices worried

29:02

that a ruling could hamper the power

29:04

of future presidents or subject them to

29:06

the whims of a politically motivated prosecutor.

29:09

The liberal justices emphasized that the president

29:11

is not above the law. Whatever

29:14

the court decides will determine whether

29:16

and how quickly Trump would face

29:18

trial on charges of election interference.

29:21

The justices' decision will likely shape

29:23

power and accountability for future presidents.

29:26

And major news in New York,

29:29

the rape conviction for Hollywood producer

29:31

Harvey Weinstein was overturned today. To

29:34

be clear, Weinstein is not being released

29:36

from prison. His 2022 rape

29:39

conviction in California still stands.

29:42

But the New York Court of Appeals

29:44

ruled that the judge in Weinstein's original

29:46

trial in 2020 improperly

29:48

allowed testimony about allegations that were

29:50

not part of the case. The

29:53

court has ordered a retrial. That's

29:57

it for poster reports. Thanks for listening.

30:00

Today's episode was produced by Charlotte

30:02

Freeland. It was mixed by Sean

30:04

Carter and edited by Maggie Penman. I'm

30:07

Martine Powers. We'll be back

30:09

tomorrow with more stories from the Washington Post.