0:04

iHeartRadio presents Conversations,

0:06

a weekly discussion with the biggest names and

0:08

influencers in podcasting. I want

0:10

to learn the secret psycho rituals scrubstars

0:13

Zach Braff and Donald Beson used

0:15

before Every Fake Doctor's Real Friends taping

0:18

how Vice News parachutes into war

0:20

zones to rescue journalists from life

0:22

threatening situations. For why

0:24

Kegan, Michael Key, and Blumhouse believe

0:26

three D audio is the future of storytelling.

0:29

Whether you're a newbie trying to break into the podcast

0:32

game or an exec trying to refine

0:34

your playbook, Conversations is the easiest

0:36

way to keep your pulse on the industry.

0:46

Hello and welcome to another conversation as part

0:48

of our iHeart podcast Speaker series.

0:50

I'm Will Pearson, President of iHeart Podcasts.

0:53

Every week we like to get together with one of our favorite

0:55

creators, podcasters, producers

0:58

and talk about what's going on with a new show, with

1:00

an existing show, and what's going on in

1:02

the industry. And I'm really excited about today's

1:04

conversation. Our guest is coming all

1:06

the way from Sydney, Australia today, so

1:08

this is a first for us. I think maybe the longest

1:11

distance Conversation. We've had super excited

1:13

about this, As I think many of you know, we

1:15

have had a huge push, a very real focus

1:18

on mental health in podcasting

1:20

and really trying to bring on podcasts

1:22

that helps serve the needs and give tools

1:25

to all different audiences. As we

1:27

think about the different kinds of shows that we want

1:29

to launch and bring into the network, today's

1:31

conversation is about a show that

1:33

actually launched and existed before

1:36

coming onto the iHeart Podcast network,

1:38

and we were so impressed with the work

1:41

that this creator was doing that we knew we

1:43

had to bring it on board and find a way

1:45

to help the show continue to grow. Created

1:47

by none other than Jemis Beck, who is

1:49

a psychology graduate mental health

1:51

advocate living in Sydney, Australia. In

1:53

twenty twenty one launched this podcast

1:55

called The Psychology of Your Twenties. It's

1:58

a phenomenal podcast that helps focus

2:00

on so many different topics that are relevant

2:02

to those in their twenties, everything from

2:05

imposter syndrome to the myth

2:07

of the dream job, to friendship

2:09

breakups, you name it. If it's relevant

2:11

to that audience, it will be discussed in this

2:13

podcast. But Jemma thanks and welcome

2:15

and thanks for spending some time with.

2:17

Us, no worries at all. Thanks Will for the

2:19

lovely introduction as well. I

2:21

can't believe I'm the longest distance conversation

2:23

you've ever had, all the way from tropical Australia,

2:26

So.

2:26

I mean, yeah, it's hard to get a whole up further. We haven't

2:28

had an astronom, so we'll see if

2:30

we can. But it's lovely to chat with you. Super

2:33

excited about this podcast. I want to go

2:35

back to the beginning if you don't mind, Gemma, and just

2:37

hear a little bit about how you decided to

2:39

start this podcast, a little bit about your background.

2:42

Do you mind jumping in from there and just sort of telling

2:44

us how this all came about.

2:45

Yeah, absolutely, so I started it back

2:47

in twenty twenty one. I was still

2:50

at university at the time, and I

2:52

was having all of these incredible

2:54

conversations with my friends, all

2:56

of us in our twenties, going through a

2:59

variety of different experience and events,

3:01

and as you do, you sit down with

3:03

your girlfriends and you have a bit of a rant

3:05

about someone who's broken your

3:07

heart, or how you're super stressed about graduate

3:10

jobs, even things from like your childhood

3:12

that you're really only coming to terms with. And

3:14

what I found was there was all of this theory.

3:17

I was learning all of this literature

3:19

that could really explain exactly

3:22

what we were going through, and it was so applicable.

3:24

But because it was so wrapped up in academic

3:27

jargon and not very accessible

3:30

to people who weren't studying psychology,

3:32

it really wasn't getting applied. And that's where

3:34

kind of the idea for the show came from. I

3:37

was like, the psychology of your twenties, how

3:39

come no one's done this before? And then I

3:41

was like, oh wait, I probably need to do this,

3:43

Like this is probably what I need to

3:45

do. So it had very humble beginnings.

3:47

I will say that if you go back and listen to some

3:49

of the old episodes, you can tell that I'm like recording

3:52

in the back of my car. I have like my best

3:54

friends on, and now I'm obviously having you

3:56

know, very well known people come on as guests.

3:58

But I love to remember the time when it was

4:01

really just a hobby and before it kind of took

4:03

off.

4:04

I think that there's actually something really

4:06

lovely about that, and there's a charm

4:08

to great podcasts because even

4:10

as the podcast has matured and sort

4:13

of developed and has become more polished

4:15

in its presentation, you know, I think a

4:17

great podcast that its core still

4:19

maintains that element of I

4:22

don't know, it doesn't feel too polished. You know,

4:24

at some level you really want it to feel like a

4:26

real conversation and like a conversation

4:28

that you're able to sit in on, even if

4:31

it's between two other people. Do you think

4:33

about that as the podcast grows, Like, I'm

4:35

guessing you don't want it to be, you know, too fine

4:37

tuned or too polished.

4:38

What are your thoughts on that?

4:39

Well, I feel like you just peeled inside my head

4:41

and looked at my biggest insecurity right now.

4:44

Really, Oh my goodness.

4:46

Well, I think it's one of those things. As

4:49

you put more effort into it, as you get better equipment,

4:51

as you have more opportunities, it does

4:53

get better. But sometimes I worry

4:56

that it will lose its authenticity. I don't

4:58

think that's ever going to happen, because it is

5:00

really the stuff that's going on in my life, and

5:02

I think that's like the secret ingredient.

5:05

But sometimes I do worry. I'm

5:07

like, oh, you know, this is what I'm going through right

5:09

now, But now I have all of these listeners.

5:11

What if they're not going through this as well and

5:14

they don't want to listen to it? And then I always taught

5:16

myself and I'm like, no, no, like this is ridiculous.

5:18

This is what I've been doing for this whole time,

5:20

and every time I've had that fear, the

5:22

episode has ended up being one of the best ones

5:25

that I've ever done, because I think it's tapping into vulnerability.

5:27

Right when you're most vulnerable about something,

5:29

that's when people can feel they most

5:31

relate. So, yeah, but it is a good question.

5:34

Sometimes I do worry about that, but so

5:36

far it hasn't happened.

5:37

You haven't lost it at all. No, and not

5:39

in that sense.

5:40

There's actually something really interesting I think about

5:42

podcasts that, through their title or

5:44

through their approach, maybe for

5:46

a specific audience, but can also

5:48

feel very relatable to those outside

5:51

of that audience. You know, I mentioned at the top here,

5:53

we really try to create podcasts that

5:55

are not one size fits all. They think about

5:57

different audiences. You're probably familiar

5:59

with this show Therapy for Black Girls with Doctor

6:02

Joyce. I love this a brilliant podcast,

6:04

and she does such a fabulous job, but

6:06

you can still relate to it if you're not necessarily

6:09

a member of the community that it's originally

6:11

intended for.

6:12

The same thing with your podcast, if you can't tell.

6:14

I'm nowhere near my twenties, but I still

6:16

find it a very relatable and fantastic

6:18

podcast. When you're creating the show,

6:21

are you thinking about the audience or are you thinking

6:23

more you know what, I'm going to talk about things that feel

6:25

relevant to me and my friends, and I

6:27

hope they just end up feeling relevant to others.

6:30

Yeah, that's a really great question. I do think

6:32

about the audience, and I do take

6:34

a lot of suggestions as well. Like some of

6:36

some of my favorite episodes have come from suggestions

6:39

from people. So like this week's episode

6:42

was perfectionism and academic anxiety.

6:44

So one part of that topic is not something that

6:46

I'm dealing with any longer. I'm not at union

6:49

anymore, I'm not at college, but I'm a

6:51

big perfectionist. And the idea of academic

6:53

anxiety came from someone suggesting it

6:55

on Instagram, and I was like, Okay, yeah, I need

6:57

to do this, because sometimes I do think

6:59

I can be too focused on the stage I'm in

7:02

my twenties right now, forgetting that there

7:04

was this whole period before this, and there will

7:06

be this whole period after this that doesn't

7:08

really need to be accounted for, but I should

7:10

be thinking about. But I found

7:13

it. I can think about the audience, but sometimes

7:15

I'm surprised by who my audience is. I

7:17

got a review the other day and it was like, life

7:19

in my forties, not in my twenties. I'm obsessed

7:21

with this podcast or my favorite of dms

7:24

from parents who were like, I have someone in their

7:26

twenty a daughter or a son or a child

7:28

in their twenties, and I don't know what they're

7:30

going through, so I've been listening to your show

7:32

to get a good grasp. That was especially the

7:34

response for the episode I did on The Complete

7:37

Guide to Therapy in Your twenties Right. A

7:39

lot of parents listened to that one and were like, oh,

7:41

thank you, Like I needed to know how to get my child

7:43

into this, so.

7:44

Yeah, that's fantastic.

7:46

We had sort of a funny moment related to another

7:48

podcast where my wife and I were talking

7:50

to the therapist for one of our kids

7:52

and just doing sort of a general catchup, and

7:55

she made reference to a series. She

7:57

said, you know, if you want to peek into the mind of

7:59

a teenager, there's this great new series

8:01

that's put out by this brilliant professor

8:04

at Yale, a woman named doctor Laurie Santos.

8:06

And I didn't reveal that, you know, she's obviously

8:08

one of our podcasters with the Happiness Lab,

8:10

and it's brilliant. But it is fun to sort of listen

8:12

and understand those kinds of things.

8:31

I'm curious for you.

8:32

Have there been certain lessons or takeaways

8:35

or themes of episodes that for you

8:37

more recently you've thought, oh, I'm going to use

8:39

that in my own life.

8:40

I haven't thought of that before.

8:41

Great questions you've got going on here.

8:43

Yeah.

8:44

Actually, the beautiful thing about this job

8:46

and this podcast is that every week I

8:48

get to learn something new. A lot of it

8:50

is prior knowledge that I have, but I'd

8:52

like to get different articles and

8:55

different research and really make sure

8:57

that it's evidence based, because I think there's

8:59

a lot of help podcasts out there. It's

9:01

just opinions, which is still really valuable, but

9:03

sometimes I think we do need a bit more of that literature

9:06

to back it up. And it was on my episode

9:08

taking Risks in your twenties, And well,

9:10

this was right as I was making the decision to join iHeart

9:13

and to quit my full time job, and there was

9:15

a study to evade all these participants

9:17

and they were faced with a decision, and

9:20

those who did not make that decision experienced

9:23

much more regret than those who did. So it

9:25

was this real motivator, being like, you are more likely

9:27

to regret a decision that you don't make than

9:29

one that you do, according to this research. And

9:32

I was like, all right, okay, I think the

9:34

next day I quit my job and I put in

9:36

my four week's notice, so and

9:38

like, that might not be relatable to everyone, but

9:41

I do think that that study is relatable to everyone.

9:43

Everyone's yeah, there's risks inherent in life,

9:45

right, So right.

9:46

We might not be suggesting everybody quit their day

9:48

jobs right now and started the podcast immediately,

9:51

But yes, I love the takeaway. And I was actually

9:53

going to ask you about that because obviously you

9:55

did leave your job to focus on this podcast.

9:58

Now I think you were smart enough to see

10:00

this podcast to a certain level of success,

10:02

which, by the way, I don't know that you even

10:04

fully appreciate. I think I've mentioned this to you before,

10:07

how rare it is for an independent podcaster

10:10

to start a podcast and grow it

10:12

on their own to almost a million downloads

10:14

a month. I mean, it's phenomenal. It sort of speaks

10:16

to the passion that you put behind it and the

10:18

need for it as well. Like it truly is

10:20

phenomenal. But that transition for

10:22

you of going from a day job to now focusing

10:25

on this full time, what has it been like since

10:27

you've made the decision.

10:28

I don't think I do fully appreciate it, so I

10:30

feel awkward when people tell me I think the transition

10:33

I actually I My episode coming

10:35

out this week is on the transition, So I'm

10:37

going to spoil it for everyone listening to

10:39

this a little sneak peek. But I

10:41

think it was both scary and

10:43

incredibly fulfilling. I had for a

10:45

long time been a bit disillusioned in my

10:47

nine to five and I just wanted to make the podcast

10:50

twenty four to seven. And that sounds like a good

10:52

thing until you have limited hours in

10:54

your day and you're staying up

10:56

till like twelve or one am because you just

10:59

like really want to get the epid out. And I think

11:01

it was a genuine love for the content and it still

11:03

is there. So that was like kind of creating

11:06

not a great work life balance. And now I've

11:08

actually eliminated the thing that was taking up the

11:10

most time, which was my job, and it's

11:12

just allowed for so much more creative freedom. It's

11:15

allowed me to really think more and

11:17

dive deeper, to be able to do more guest

11:19

episodes because now my hours

11:22

when people would normally want to record a

11:24

free I'm not suggested to go out and quit your nine

11:26

to five. I put a lot in place to make sure

11:28

that I could do that, and it was a long term goal

11:31

that I was really like focused on and putting

11:33

in place, like certain things to make sure

11:35

that this would eventually be possible even

11:37

if the podcast wasn't successful.

11:39

So yeah, well that's a time exactly.

11:42

So what's your take on podcasting

11:45

as a medium to accomplish

11:47

what you're trying to accomplish? Like, what have

11:49

you found to be unique about podcasting

11:52

as opposed to maybe video only

11:54

or as opposed to books or any

11:56

other medium that might be out there.

11:59

I think that pog is like

12:01

this weird intersection between like music

12:04

and video content. It's almost

12:06

like having video content, but you're not watching the video

12:08

right, Like, it's just that it doesn't have that visual stimulation.

12:11

But I think what that means is that you can carry

12:13

it around in your pocket, you don't have to be staring at your

12:15

screen. You can listen to it at work, you can listen

12:17

to it on a walk, you can listen to it on the train

12:19

whilst you're doing other things without having

12:22

to be visually engaged, but still mentally

12:24

engaged. And for my mission in particular,

12:26

like I really want to make the concepts of psychology

12:29

more accessible and get people thinking about their

12:31

mental health in a different way before it reaches

12:33

a crisis point. That's like the best medium

12:36

for this. It's the best medium because

12:38

it's almost like therapy. It's talking

12:40

therapy, but they're not really talking, but

12:42

it's like they're able to engage in this conversation

12:46

that either I'm having with someone else or that I'm having

12:48

with them, And I do try and make it

12:50

really personal so that every single person who's

12:52

listening feels like I'm not talking to

12:54

this big amalgamation of people I don't

12:57

know, but I'm talking specifically to

12:59

them in those coversations that I'm having

13:01

because that's how I make the most impact.

13:03

I think by making you feel part of a community,

13:05

but also that we're just sitting down and

13:07

having a chat. And the response I

13:09

get from that is so profound because

13:12

the amount of comments and dms I get

13:14

of people being like, I can't afford therapy right

13:16

now, but I wanted to know and I wanted to learn

13:18

about these parts of myself. So thank you for

13:20

providing that to me or people who were like I

13:22

was in tears or this feels like having a

13:24

conversation with an older sister or with

13:26

a therapist, but it's just me and them.

13:28

So I just think that's the real power of audio.

13:31

And since I was a kid, also, like I've loved

13:33

podcasts. My mom used to play This American

13:35

Life for me when I was like three years old in the back

13:38

of the Power, So I think that that's always

13:40

been the medium that I've really related

13:42

to the most. Is a bit of a podcast stand

13:44

from day Dot.

13:45

Oh, I love hearing that. That's pretty terrific.

13:47

Well, before I let you go, i'd love to hear about

13:49

your thoughts on the future of the show. You know, you're

13:51

obviously still just a couple of years

13:54

into it, not quite actually, and would

13:56

love.

13:56

To hear you know where you want it to go, what you want

13:58

to be doing with it, you know, as you think down the line.

14:00

Honestly, I want to keep the main core

14:03

of it very much the same, like

14:05

that authenticity, but I want to expand

14:07

the things on the outskirts, right, the things that just

14:09

add flavor to that authenticity. So bringing

14:12

on more guests, particularly those with really

14:14

incredible stories. I would love to do video

14:16

content at some point, and also

14:18

just dive a bit more into like the therapy concepts

14:21

at some stage and maybe do a series on that

14:23

of understanding this condition or understanding

14:26

this therapy method or something like that, and

14:28

just seeing what the future holds.

14:30

Yeah, I love it. It's off to a fantastic

14:32

start. We are thrilled to be partners with you

14:34

and trying to bring this to a broader audience.

14:37

But for all those watching listening, if

14:39

you haven't already checked it out, The Psychology

14:41

of your Twenties, it's a fantastic podcast.

14:43

I love what it brings into the space.

14:45

And as Jemma mentioned before, there are

14:47

so many people looking for resources

14:50

that they may not be able to have access to. Otherwise,

14:53

and also for those that do have access to

14:55

certain tools. There's always a desire for more

14:57

as we think about being able to better our own

14:59

mental health. But Gemma, thanks so much for spending

15:01

time with us today.

15:02

You are so welcome. Well, thanks for your great

15:04

questions. I'm so excited to be with iHeart

15:07

the most exciting new chapter.

15:08

So thank you, awesome, Thank you so much, and thanks

15:11

everybody for tuning in.

15:12

We will see you again next week.

15:22

Conversations is a production of iHeartRadio.

15:25

You can find more from the biggest names in podcasting

15:27

on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get

15:29

your podcasts.