0:12

I'm joined by Ami

0:12

Thakkar. Right. Good. I'm so

0:17

glad because I can edit this

0:17

better. She's the wonderful host

0:20

of Talk It Out. Now you've done

0:20

over 110 episodes. Amy, how are

0:25

you?

0:25

I am excellent. How

0:25

are you, Sam?

0:28

Good. Good. Now,

0:28

first of all, tell me a little

0:31

bit about your podcast. Why did

0:31

you start it and what is it?

0:34

So I'll start with

0:34

the why. I am technically a

0:40

lawyer, an attorney. Rewinding

0:40

back a little bit, I graduated

0:44

from undergrad with a business

0:44

degree. Thought I was going to

0:47

go into business. Or Enron,

0:47

which was my first job. Enron

0:52

obviously didn't work out. Then

0:52

ended up living in India for a

0:55

year, doing all sorts of

0:55

creative stuff because I've

0:58

always had this creative side. I

0:58

just never knew what to do with

1:01

it. I ended up going to law

1:01

school because I'm a good Indian

1:04

girl and practiced law in New

1:04

York for a while, met my husband,

1:09

and since we've been married,

1:09

which is almost God, almost 13

1:12

years now. We moved eight times.

1:12

Seven times. I can't. I'm losing

1:15

count because of his job. So

1:15

we've moved abroad. We were in

1:19

India, in Dubai, Dallas,

1:19

Arkansas, Connecticut. And now

1:22

we're back in Dallas. And each

1:22

time I was trying to pick up the

1:28

pieces of my career again,

1:28

trying to find new jobs, new

1:32

projects, because I just never

1:32

been the type that could sit at

1:36

home.

1:36

Must love it when he comes in and goes, Honey, we're moving again.

1:39

Oh, yes. We've had

1:39

many those many fine moments

1:42

over the years. And when he is

1:42

like a new role, but it's

1:45

fantastic. He's with one company

1:45

and enjoying it and the moves

1:49

are worth it. There's a lot of

1:49

work, but totally worth it. And

1:52

it's been quite an adventure.

1:52

But that being said, it's

1:55

definitely hard as the spouse

1:55

that's following the partner

1:58

that's working to figure out

1:58

what they want to do. So

2:01

throughout these moves I'm

2:01

searching for my purpose. If you

2:06

want to say trying to work at

2:06

startups and writing for

2:09

magazines and you name it, I

2:09

have done it all, worked in

2:14

radio and so when we got back

2:14

from living abroad, I had just

2:19

had my first daughter. I was

2:19

pregnant with my second daughter.

2:24

I was completely frustrated with

2:24

my career stuff and I thought,

2:27

You know what? I am tired of

2:27

looking for something, figuring

2:32

out what my passions are because

2:32

I have so many. And I couldn't

2:36

just do the stay at home mom

2:36

thing. It just wasn't me. And so

2:40

Cereal had just kind of come out.

2:40

It was a big deal in the U.S., I

2:45

think, around the world. Yeah.

2:45

And and so I was like, you know

2:48

what? I love the concept of

2:48

podcasting. I didn't know much

2:51

about it, but I knew one. I love

2:51

interviewing people. I had done

2:54

it through the magazines. I

2:54

worked with, and I loved the

2:57

audio medium because I had

2:57

worked in various radio stations

3:01

two and two together. Serial was

3:01

a huge inspiration, and then bam,

3:05

I was like, Let me just start.

3:05

Found a guy that could help me

3:08

with the tech stuff because I

3:08

know nothing about tech still to

3:12

this day. And I took the route

3:12

of interviewing South Asian

3:17

trailblazers and experts and

3:17

leaders first in the U.S.. I

3:21

started off just with the U.S.

3:21

and then expanded simply because,

3:24

look, I am Indian-American.

3:26

I am interested

3:26

clarity, not Native Indian

3:29

American.

3:29

That's native

3:29

Indian-American, No. Yes,

3:32

Indian-American parents are from

3:32

India. And I was curious about

3:38

other Indian-American stories,

3:38

how they got to where they got

3:42

in their careers. Were they

3:42

confused like I was ever Were

3:46

they the typical doctor, lawyers,

3:46

engineers that our parents

3:49

wanted us to be? And then the

3:49

second part of that was I had a

3:53

strong network, so it was easy

3:53

to get guest because I could

3:57

just call up my friends who were

3:57

doing big things. So that's why

4:00

I started off the interviews

4:00

with South Asian Trailblazers,

4:05

and the name comes from my last

4:05

name, Tucker. I've been called

4:08

Tucker my whole life, and I was

4:08

tuckered out from figuring out

4:13

my jobs, moving around, being a

4:13

mom. And yeah, I just thought it

4:17

was a fun name. And this was I.

4:17

My first episode came out

4:20

December 2017 and kind of

4:20

started off as a hobby. I think

4:25

like a lot of podcasters.

4:27

Yeah, most of us are. As I said at the beginning, I've done 107 episodes, So looking

4:29

back at the first episode you

4:33

started What's Change? What have

4:33

you learned from that?

4:36

You know, honestly,

4:36

Sam, I was just telling my

4:38

husband a few things. One, I

4:38

feel like this podcast has

4:44

become my own therapy session

4:44

because when you are talking to

4:47

others about the South Asian

4:47

story, you end up of course,

4:50

talking about your relationship

4:50

with your culture, relationship

4:55

with our parents, your own

4:55

journey. And I feel like

4:58

throughout these past two and a

4:58

half years, I've just learned a

5:01

lot about myself and how my

5:01

stories from childhood that I

5:05

haven't thought about for years.

5:05

I've also learned that we all

5:10

have a common thread. A lot of

5:10

us have common thread. Even if

5:13

you live in the US or live in

5:13

the UK or Australia or Singapore.

5:17

The South Asian story is we have

5:17

a lot in common no matter where

5:21

you are, but it's also very

5:21

unique depending on where your

5:26

family immigrated to. And so

5:26

it's just been fascinating to

5:31

learn about other people. But I

5:31

think not to sound cheesy, but

5:34

really learning more about myself. Oh gosh, so many. I had

5:40

mentioned that Serial was an

5:44

inspiration to start the podcast,

5:44

and on my 75th episode I got to

5:48

interview Rabia Chaudry, who was

5:48

the attorney and family friend

5:53

of Adnan that kind of helped

5:53

launch the whole podcast. And so

5:57

talking to her was just a full

5:57

circle kind of moment. She's

6:01

just a very interesting,

6:01

intelligent woman. She's done

6:05

such great work. Also, I had

6:05

interviewed Kal Penn, my 90th

6:09

episode, I believe, and I had

6:09

worked with Kal 20 some years

6:14

ago as his production assistant

6:14

on a film set back in Austin

6:19

when I was living there and

6:19

hadn't spoken to him since I ran

6:23

into him at an event in

6:23

Connecticut, I was like, We got

6:26

to do this. And it was really

6:26

cool to talk 20 years later

6:29

about everything, and he's

6:29

Gujarati and we on the film sets,

6:34

we would just bust out with

6:34

Gujarat. And so we decided it

6:37

was really nice to connect with

6:37

him again after all these years.

6:39

Gosh, so somebody I'm trying to think also. Yeah. The CEO of Luminary

6:43

Rishi Malhotra was a great guest.

6:47

Yeah. And he's on

6:47

your wish list.

6:51

Well, your prime

6:51

minister would be nice.

6:54

Oh, I.

6:55

Would.

6:56

Rishi, don't worry

6:56

about the country, Hari. Yeah,

6:59

he wants to. India.

7:00

Don't you have time

7:00

for me? I don't understand.

7:03

But when you come

7:03

over, I'll take you to number

7:05

ten. We'll sort it out.

7:06

Yeah, He would be

7:06

amazing. Lilly Singh, I think

7:09

she's done a lot for Indian

7:09

women in the US, and so it would

7:14

be just fun to talk to her. I

7:14

think we would have a blast.

7:17

Yeah. You know,

7:17

they're great names. Now, in

7:20

terms of monetizing your podcast,

7:20

how are you doing it?

7:23

Sponsorship. So,

7:23

you know, it's not consistent. I

7:27

sometimes get sponsors six weeks

7:27

in a row, eight weeks in a row,

7:31

or for certain episodes. It just

7:31

depends. And then sometimes I

7:34

don't. And so I think every

7:34

independent podcaster knows it's

7:39

a struggle unless you are a

7:39

celebrity or a well-known figure

7:44

getting a contract with a big

7:44

network, getting that constant

7:47

sponsorship support is hard. And

7:47

so yeah, there's a lot of

7:51

platforms you can work with that

7:51

help you monetize or help you

7:55

connect with sponsors. Some

7:55

months are great, some not, but

7:59

it is what it is. I'm doing it for the passion of it.

8:01

So yeah, that's what

8:01

independents tend to do. Yeah.

8:04

Now you've started doing real

8:04

world events. She did the South

8:09

Asian house at South by

8:09

Southwest. You're doing other

8:12

events, tours, more.

8:12

Yeah. So, you know,

8:12

when I was my last it before

8:17

Dallas where I am now, we were

8:17

in Connecticut and so access to

8:21

New York was easy. So I was

8:21

going to a lot of events there.

8:24

And a friend of mine who was

8:24

also a guest, Meghan as a she

8:29

throws and host a party every

8:29

year called the Valley on the

8:33

Hudson, which is huge. The

8:33

Volley Party in New York. It's a

8:36

fantastic cause for the this

8:36

foundation. And so I was like,

8:41

you know what would be really

8:41

cool? They have red carpet stuff

8:44

and what But I asked her, what

8:44

about doing a live podcast or

8:47

another kind of activation

8:47

corner or something different

8:50

from the red carpet? Not

8:50

everyone loves red carpet where

8:53

I can interview not just big

8:53

names, but your guest to talk

8:57

about the event, the foundation.

8:57

It could be an episode obviously

9:02

for my podcast, but you can also

9:02

use that for your marketing

9:05

tools as well to promote the

9:05

Valley on the Hudson. And it

9:09

ended up being a huge hit. And

9:09

from there I was like, I should

9:13

be doing more of this. It was

9:13

just fun to interact because

9:16

again, as you know, as a

9:16

podcaster and independent

9:18

podcaster, it's very lonely.

9:18

It's fun to talk to everyone

9:22

over squad cast or Zoom or

9:22

whatever. But the interaction is

9:26

not there. And so I feel like

9:26

maybe you're this way too. I

9:30

feed off the energy of people

9:30

and in person. It's just a whole

9:33

different level. And so yeah, I

9:33

started kind of doing small

9:36

events around New York. Then

9:36

Sundance came up. I knew the

9:40

people that were putting it

9:40

together. I was like, Hey, look,

9:43

let's do this. Like, let's do

9:43

something different. This is the

9:45

first South Asian house. Let's

9:45

do an activation corner that

9:49

worked well. And then South by

9:49

Southwest happened and I'm doing

9:52

a few more this year.

9:53

Okay. Any plans to

9:53

come to Europe?

9:56

Let's go. No

9:56

question. I am ready to go. I

9:59

would have loved to come for

9:59

this year for the conference. I

10:01

know you and I spoke in March,

10:01

so yeah. You mentioned last week

10:05

you met with Saul Suarez. Is

10:05

that was that on her podcast?

10:08

Yeah. And Brown Girls can do it.

10:08

So I know a lot of stuff is

10:11

happening in the UK and I would

10:11

love to get plugged in because

10:16

podcasting, like we talked

10:16

earlier, is not just a U.S.

10:19

thing. Now it's global.

10:21

Okay, we're going to

10:21

do a London South Asian house, a

10:25

real event.

10:26

Like I am in. I'm

10:26

ready to help. Let's make this

10:29

happen.

10:29

Help you?

10:30

Yes. Yeah, we've got to do it.

10:32

Sorry. People can't

10:32

see this, but you're the more

10:35

attractive one who would be

10:35

hosting it. Let's be clear. No

10:38

one's coming to see me Look.

10:39

Right. I'll take it. It's my birthday today, so I'm just going to take all the

10:41

compliments and smile.

10:43

You take them. Now,

10:43

one of the other things you've

10:45

been doing is working on the

10:45

Podcast Academy now.

10:50

Congratulations. You got voted

10:50

back in. Yes, Well done. What is

10:54

the podcast Academy? Let's start

10:54

with that. First of all, what do

10:57

you think it is?

10:59

So let me I'm going

10:59

to give you the best definition

11:03

that I think explains it all. It

11:03

is the only professional, full

11:10

membership organization that

11:10

unites podcast creators with

11:14

industry leaders. Think of it as

11:14

podcast movement. All year round,

11:20

where everyone from the industry

11:20

comes together, is able to

11:26

network. You know, independent

11:26

creators like me can meet big

11:29

network heads besides the

11:29

networking, the educational

11:32

portion of it, the programming

11:32

part of it. And so I like to

11:36

think if you want to do like a

11:36

little similarity podcast

11:40

movement online all year, of

11:40

course we're starting to have

11:43

more live events through the

11:43

Academy. Tons of stuff happening

11:46

this year. It's all about

11:46

inclusivity and we are really

11:51

cognizant of having diverse

11:51

leadership, not just with

11:55

independents and industry

11:55

leaders, but with female male,

11:59

all backgrounds. And I think the

11:59

two pillars are to encourage

12:04

creativity and award excellence.

12:04

So uplifting the industry.

12:10

Okay, Now one of my

12:10

observations at the Vegas event

12:14

where we had the Olympics was it

12:14

was very American now. So I

12:20

jokingly called it the American

12:20

Podcast Awards really, because

12:23

there was no European or British

12:23

or Australian representation.

12:27

Right. And that felt for

12:27

something that was meant to be

12:30

an industry overarching academy.

12:30

It felt very myopic. It was like

12:35

the World Series of baseball,

12:35

right? The Americans have it.

12:38

Yeah. No, the rest.

12:39

Of it is the World

12:39

Series. I'm kidding. Yeah. Yeah.

12:42

So that's what we

12:42

were joking about. That would be

12:45

one thing I'd love for the

12:45

Academy this year to try and

12:48

reach out to more international

12:48

participants to come on board.

12:52

If you were selling the academy,

12:52

why would I join, you know, from

12:56

based over here in Europe?

12:58

Yeah, no, it's a great question. And you're right, I think we are still somewhat

12:59

new. This is only the second

13:03

year doing the MBA. So I think

13:03

it is US centric a little bit

13:08

more just because it's an easier

13:08

way to start as a new

13:12

organization to figure out the

13:12

kinks how to grow this bigger.

13:18

And of course, we want it to be

13:18

international and of course we

13:20

want to include everyone

13:20

globally. Now that being said,

13:25

we do have two members of the

13:25

board that are based outside the

13:29

U.S., one in London, I believe

13:29

her name is Christina moore.

13:32

Check me on that. And then Jfrog.

13:32

The CI is based in Dubai and we

13:37

are actually partnering with

13:37

Sonora to go to Mexico City in

13:41

June to talk about more of the

13:41

global landscape and meet more

13:46

global creators and industry

13:46

leaders. So it's getting there.

13:49

I just think honestly, the

13:49

simple answer is it was the

13:52

easiest way to start, I think,

13:52

because we are so new and now

13:56

that we are understanding what

13:56

we're capable of and the

14:00

interest globally now it is

14:00

definitely 100%. But what we

14:04

want to focus on as well.

14:06

Okay. Now Rob Greenly

14:06

does a weekly podcast with Todd

14:10

Cochrane. And they were talking

14:10

about an outreach program really

14:15

of education. I was like, Really?

14:15

So again, tell me more about

14:19

some of the other activities

14:19

apart from the Olympics, which

14:21

is very glamorous and it's a

14:21

once a year of right throughout

14:25

the rest of the year. What does

14:25

the Academy focus on?

14:28

So we have this

14:28

great mentor mentorship program

14:32

where we ask mentors to sign up,

14:32

and if you want a mentor, we

14:38

pair you up with someone who was

14:38

a professional who has been

14:42

doing this for a while, someone

14:42

that we think would be a good

14:46

match for you. I've done it.

14:46

I've done it. I've done it as a

14:49

mentor and a mentee. I was

14:49

matched up with Louie, who was

14:53

one of the heads of Wondery, and

14:53

I got to talk to Marshall Lewy

14:57

once a month for like six months,

14:57

just me and him as a little

15:01

independent podcaster.

15:02

So I can talk to Jen Sargeant now.

15:04

Yeah, she's on the board, by the way.

15:05

No, exactly. That's what.

15:07

I'm saying. Yeah.

15:07

So I mean, like the access to

15:09

the people who, you know, are

15:09

frankly hard to get hold of

15:12

because they are busy, they are

15:12

running things. And so the

15:16

mentor program I think is

15:16

fantastic and very unique. And

15:20

we have so many amazing names on

15:20

there ready to help and give

15:24

back. We also have masterclasses

15:24

which will be now called TPA

15:29

Presents, where we have masters

15:29

in various areas of the industry

15:34

speaking to our members about

15:34

different aspects, whether it's

15:39

marketing, audience growth,

15:39

whatever it is, we have it all,

15:42

every category is covered. And

15:42

also, again, it's easy to reach

15:46

out to these people and ask the

15:46

questions and connect. So a lot

15:49

of this is just being able to

15:49

connect and talk to people that

15:53

may be not easy to get hold of

15:53

and get the advice. And I do

15:57

think the peer to peer

15:57

connection is super important as

15:59

well. We already talked about

15:59

how in lonely podcasting can be,

16:05

I join the TPA just to like meet

16:05

other podcast people. I didn't

16:08

expect anything out of it, but

16:08

just to like talk to other

16:10

people that are. I'm like, What the hell are we doing? What's happening here? So for me, I

16:12

initially started it off just to

16:16

make friends and feel like I had

16:16

an office of some sort. I didn't

16:20

expect to talk to Marshall Louie

16:20

and like get all this great

16:24

advice. It was an amazing,

16:24

amazing thing that happened. And

16:27

I was like, Wow, TPA is really

16:27

legit. We are also going to be

16:32

coming out in August, going to

16:32

have our own podcast where

16:38

podcast industry people will be

16:38

interviewing other podcast,

16:41

interesting people and you can

16:41

sign up to be on it. It helps

16:44

with your own marketing and you

16:44

get to meet others. And so we

16:47

want podcasters to have that

16:47

access. So we're starting on new

16:50

programs as well. Obviously the

16:50

ambos are there, other great,

16:53

but we're thinking about other

16:53

exciting things. The other thing

16:57

to remember is that we are

16:57

partnering with a lot of other

16:59

platforms like the Black Pod

16:59

Collective, Bipoc podcast

17:04

creator, Air State of Women. So

17:04

we're working with everyone

17:08

because we want to be team

17:08

players.

17:11

Yeah, What was

17:11

interesting as an observation

17:13

for me at the Emmys was these

17:13

amazing creators and producers

17:18

were winning awards, and yet in

17:18

my podcast world, not one of

17:22

those people existed. Okay,

17:22

because it's a very interesting

17:27

separation between the two

17:27

parties. I deal in a world where

17:30

we're looking at people. Adam

17:30

Curry in the podcasting to the

17:33

world and technologies and

17:33

what's moving the process needle

17:38

forward. So micropayments and

17:38

new ways of monetizing your

17:41

podcast. And then on this other

17:41

side, you've got these amazing

17:45

production companies building

17:45

and spending. I wonder whether

17:50

the Emmys would have space for

17:50

extending the awards. This just

17:55

may, maybe some feedback to some

17:55

of the platform players. There's

18:00

a great platform called Fountain,

18:00

which is innovative, right?

18:02

Right. There's some great hosts

18:02

out there doing amazing work,

18:07

and there's no recognition for

18:07

them by the podcast Academy.

18:11

Right. And it felt like it was

18:11

like if you've produced this

18:13

amazing podcast that has a big

18:13

high end budget and yes, I know

18:17

independents were covered as

18:17

well, then we will celebrate,

18:21

right? But the people that they

18:21

rely on are the nuts and bolts

18:26

people who build the railways

18:26

and give you the pickaxes and

18:29

whatever so you can go and dig

18:29

the gold. But these guys are

18:33

building those railways and

18:33

selling you the pickaxes. Right.

18:36

But they're not getting any notes.

18:38

Sure. I'm glad you

18:38

that I mean, I think that's true.

18:41

So I think a few things with

18:41

that. I think that's why on the

18:45

board of governors, that's why

18:45

there's so many of us that are

18:49

coming from different angles,

18:49

aspects, places, roles to talk

18:53

about these kind of things,

18:53

because it can't just be all

18:57

industry leaders on the board.

18:57

So that's why they brought in

19:00

someone like me who's an

19:00

independent, who has literally

19:03

just learned about the podcast

19:03

industry in the past 20 months.

19:06

And I also do think again, the

19:06

ambiance we just finished our

19:10

second year, it is new and so I

19:10

think we're always looking to

19:13

see how to get better, how to be

19:13

more inclusive, what we need to

19:17

do to change. So I do think the

19:17

feedback is definitely something

19:22

we need to hear and what we're

19:22

talking about, like what we can

19:24

do better next year, who can we

19:24

include? How do these

19:27

independent platforms feel? What

19:27

are we missing? I think it's

19:31

ever evolving still as a new

19:31

organization. And so, yeah, I

19:35

agree we need to make it happen.

19:35

So I think that's why I love our

19:39

board is because it is so

19:39

diverse. And I will tell you,

19:43

Sam, when I was voted on last

19:43

year, I was nervous. I was like,

19:46

No one's going to listen to me.

19:46

Like, who am I? I felt empowered.

19:50

It feels like everyone's on the

19:50

same level playing field. It's

19:54

really nice.

19:55

Yeah. Again, but I

19:55

know there's a lot of work being

19:57

done around education as well.

19:57

City University here in the UK

20:02

have started an M.A. in

20:02

podcasting, which I think is

20:05

great. Is there again any thread

20:05

or theme within the podcast

20:11

academy to do more grassroots

20:11

education work?

20:14

Yeah, I think so. I

20:14

think for now we are definitely

20:20

kind of filtering and

20:20

understanding what we have done

20:23

so far to make sure that is

20:23

working before we start

20:26

expanding it more. Right? And so

20:26

in terms of grassroots is

20:31

definitely on the agenda. I

20:31

don't know. There's been nothing

20:34

specific talked about yet, so I

20:34

think, sure, why not? Right.

20:40

We're not this old organization

20:40

that's stuck in our ways. I

20:42

think we're an organization

20:42

that's still ever evolving.

20:45

That's why it's really cool to

20:45

be part of it right now. We can

20:48

actually make a change and that

20:48

we can actually form ideas that

20:54

maybe we missed or maybe that

20:54

are needed, like podcasting.

20:57

Still, the wild, Wild West still

20:57

is ever evolving. And so I think

21:01

we are too. We're always willing

21:01

to grow. I don't think there's

21:04

ever like a, Oh God, no. It's

21:04

always like, okay, let's see how

21:07

we can make this work cool.

21:10

So if I wanted to join, where would I go?

21:12

The podcast Academy

21:12

dot com I believe that's a no.

21:15

It's okay.

21:16

I'm just checking.

21:17

I'm pretty sure

21:17

that's it. Yeah. So membership,

21:20

you can sign up there. Look, Sam,

21:20

there is always like discounts

21:24

on membership, so make sure you

21:24

look out for that. I think it's

21:28

100 a year, but we always have

21:28

some sort of deal or discount.

21:33

Cool. Yeah.

21:33

And if have me

21:33

moments ago and listen to your

21:35

podcast, whenever they go.

21:37

Anywhere, they

21:37

listen to podcast. The website

21:40

is tuckered out with Omnicom,

21:40

obviously on all the major

21:43

platforms. I do have a

21:43

newsletter on Substack. I mean,

21:47

Tucker got Substack dot com and

21:47

then my Instagram is at Tuckered

21:51

Out podcast.

21:53

And you and I are

21:53

going to be doing a South Asian

21:56

podcast event in.

21:58

I am so, so ready

21:58

like sometime soon. So I'm doing

22:02

one in DC in June for the impact

22:02

group. So we're focusing on

22:07

South Asians and politics in the

22:07

US and I have some big names on

22:10

that one and so we can totally

22:10

make it happen in London.

22:16

Cool. And last thing,

22:16

given everything you're doing

22:19

with podcasting and is quite an

22:19

umbrella thing, taking the first

22:23

question you asked was you, you

22:23

wanted to find a way to make

22:26

sure that you enabled yourself

22:26

to have that creative outlet. Do

22:32

you think you've achieved it?

22:34

I think not only

22:34

have I achieved it, I think

22:38

I, I have figured out that what I

22:41

am doing with podcasting as who

22:47

I am, communication is like my

22:47

key is my golden key. It's been

22:52

something I've always loved

22:52

doing and I know a lot of people

22:55

say this, but I am a people

22:55

person. I'm always interested in

22:59

people stories. I find

22:59

everyone's fascinating and.

23:03

Yeah, everyone has a.

23:04

Story. One has a

23:04

story. I don't care how many

23:06

followers you have on whatever

23:06

social media platform. Some of

23:09

my best interviews are people

23:09

that are not known, and that's

23:13

kind of those are my favorite moments. I honestly.

23:16

Yeah, I interviewed Jordan Harbinger and he said exactly the same. Some of his

23:17

favorite interviews are stories

23:21

of people that you wouldn't have

23:21

heard totally.

23:24

They wouldn't have heard of it. Yeah, of course it's fun to interview the bigger

23:25

name people, but I think another

23:30

theme of mine growing up in in

23:30

America, I've always kind of

23:35

felt like an underdog here. I

23:35

think a lot of South Asians do

23:39

growing up here, but well, my

23:39

generation at least. So for me,

23:42

the underdog story is so

23:42

appealing. And I love underdogs

23:46

and I love sharing their stories.

23:46

That's, I think, another reason

23:49

why I started it. I think it's a

23:49

very powerful story to tell. And

23:53

I want to tell stories of South

23:53

Asian women and men that people

23:58

need to hear that are so

23:58

important, but they don't have

24:01

the spotlight.

24:03

Those question

24:03

because YouTube today have

24:06

announced that they put the

24:06

podcast into the YouTube music

24:11

app and they have pushed it out

24:11

widely and blah, blah, blah. And

24:13

so now, although it's not

24:13

technically a podcast because it

24:16

has no RSS feed, so no YouTube

24:16

yet, but other than that and

24:21

then stealing the name podcast,

24:21

it fundamentally is a video.

24:24

Will you move into that medium?

24:26

Just not right now.

24:27

That was a very quick answer. That means you've thought.

24:29

About it actually

24:29

for a while. I think the other

24:32

thing I discovered about my

24:32

podcast myself when I'm doing

24:38

I'm going to do I'm going to

24:38

make this podcast and do in a

24:41

way that I'm comfortable with.

24:41

I'm not going to do it just to

24:45

get the numbers in the downloads

24:45

and do what we're supposed to be

24:49

doing. I don't know. It just

24:49

doesn't feel right to me right

24:52

now. I'm not saying it's not

24:52

right. It's fantastic. Medium I

24:54

know tons of people that are

24:54

doing it. I do have a video

24:57

aspect and I do post that in my

24:57

own way through my channels. I

25:01

also don't believe in posting on

25:01

ten different social media

25:05

channels. I feel like I want to

25:05

focus on two or three max, build

25:09

it from there. And yeah, I know

25:09

I'm not even supposed to say

25:13

that as an independent podcaster

25:13

because you know you're supposed

25:15

to go everywhere, but I just

25:15

know I'm going to do this my way

25:18

and less is more. Yeah, it's

25:18

just, yeah, less is more. And

25:21

the older I'm getting, which is

25:21

not so old, but the older I'm

25:24

getting, the more I'm just

25:24

realizing I'm gonna do this the

25:27

way I feel Good about that.

25:30

Yeah. I mean, thank

25:30

you so much. Lovely chatting to

25:34

you. I hope to meet you in

25:34

London very shortly. So let's

25:36

make it happen.