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ABC Listen, podcasts, radio,

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Hello, welcome to PM. I'm Samantha

0:09

Donovan, coming to you from the lands

0:11

of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin

0:13

Nation in Melbourne. Tonight, the government unveils

0:16

its latest defence strategy with hundreds of

0:18

billions of dollars to be spent over

0:20

the next decade. Also,

0:31

organisers of the Brisbane Olympics face

0:33

tough questions about their progress in

0:35

planning the event and

0:37

investigators continue their search for those

0:40

who attacked police and paramedics after

0:42

the alleged stabbing at a Sydney

0:44

church. In some of the footage,

0:46

you've seen people, you know, actively

0:48

climbing onto police cars, breaking

0:51

the police car windows, etc. And those

0:53

people, when they're there, they'll be easier

0:56

to identify when they're isolated from the

0:58

group. First,

1:04

this evening, Australia is to spend an extra

1:06

$50 billion on defence

1:08

over the next decade. The

1:10

Defence Minister, Richard Miles, made

1:13

the announcement today while releasing

1:15

the government's long-awaited national defence

1:17

strategy. He also announced the

1:19

government is changing some of

1:21

its priority purchases. Andrew Green

1:24

is the ABC's defence correspondent.

1:27

Andrew, what are the key features of the

1:29

documents released today? Overall, there

1:31

will be a bigger

1:33

spend on defence than had been

1:35

previously committed to by the Labor

1:37

government. There are a lot

1:39

of numbers that have been thrown around

1:41

today, but some of the key figures

1:44

for the next decade, Labor is proposing

1:46

to spend an extra $50 billion for

1:48

defence. But

1:51

it's also as part of today's

1:54

announcement, re-prioritising, as it puts it,

1:56

around $72 billion worth of service.

2:00

spending. So some projects are

2:02

either being reduced or scrapped

2:05

altogether, but others are receiving

2:07

big boosts. Now, defence spending

2:10

overall under this plan is expected

2:12

to reach 2.4%

2:15

of Australia's GDP in

2:17

a decade. So by 2033-34, the defence spending

2:19

overall as a proportion

2:24

of Australia's economy is going to be well

2:26

above 2% where it is now. The Minister,

2:30

the Defence Minister Richard Miles,

2:33

says the immediate priority is

2:35

long-range strikes, so missiles, but

2:37

also autonomous systems, so drones,

2:40

that sort of thing that can

2:42

do remote work. Let's hear from

2:44

the Defence Minister Richard Miles as

2:47

he addressed the National Press Club

2:49

and released two documents, the National

2:51

Defence Strategy, but also the new

2:53

Integrated Investment Program. These increases

2:56

will see annual defence spending almost double

2:58

over the next 10 years to $100

3:00

billion in the financial year 33-34. It

3:03

will see

3:05

the defence spending as a

3:07

proportion of gross domestic products

3:09

projected to increase to around

3:11

2.4% by 2033-34. And

3:14

Andrew, how has the Opposition responded to

3:16

these announcements? Well, like everybody,

3:18

the Opposition is still trying to work

3:20

through all the documents and what these

3:22

exact spending decisions mean. But from the

3:24

outset, the Shadow Defence Minister Andrew Hastie

3:27

has been very critical of Richard Miles

3:29

from a communication point of view. He

3:31

says that the Minister has failed to

3:33

articulate clearly to the Australian people what

3:36

the threat is that this country could

3:38

face in the next couple of years

3:40

or even in the next decade. He

3:42

also wanted to point out that there

3:45

were projects that were being cut. But

3:47

overall, as we've heard from the Minister,

3:49

there is an increase in defence spending

3:52

from what Labor inherited but also what

3:54

it intended to do when it first

3:56

came to office. In any case, Andrew

3:59

Hastie was called concentrating on the projects

4:01

that were cut, and this is what

4:03

he had to say. Under

4:05

the Albanese Government, the ADF will be

4:07

worse off. There

4:09

won't be a balanced force or a

4:11

focused force. There will instead be a

4:13

weaker force. So

4:16

what are some of the projects that are being cut? These

4:19

details are gradually getting out. They

4:21

haven't been released in a public sense. We

4:24

don't have a document that outlines them. But

4:26

there are a few interesting things we've been

4:28

able to pick up this afternoon. The

4:31

Joint Strike Fighter Project, the

4:33

F-35, it's had a long

4:35

and perhaps controversial history in

4:37

Australia. Well, at present Australia

4:39

has bought 72 of those

4:42

advanced aircraft. And today we

4:44

learn that a decision on buying any more

4:46

has essentially been put off and perhaps

4:48

will never be made. So Australia, instead

4:50

of getting 100 F-35s,

4:53

will probably sit with the current

4:55

number of 72. That

4:57

means that Australia is going to extend

4:59

the life of its Joint Strike, rather

5:02

its Super Hornets, and the

5:04

Corralea Aircraft, the Electronic Opaque Aircraft,

5:06

they are also going to be

5:08

upgraded. So that's one decision that

5:10

has been made as part of

5:12

the changes to the

5:14

Integrated Investment Program. Also learning

5:16

that some supply ships that had been

5:19

committed to under the Coalition, they will

5:21

no longer go ahead. These are

5:24

replenishment vessels that were to support

5:26

the Navy. So there's a couple

5:29

of other upgrades to

5:31

various defence facilities that have also

5:33

been scrapped as part of today's

5:36

announcements. Andrew Green

5:38

is the ABC's defence correspondent.

5:41

New South Wales police have arrested

5:43

a 19-year-old Sydney man after officers

5:45

were attacked by an angry mob

5:47

following an alleged knife attack at

5:49

a Western Sydney church on Monday

5:52

night, and they're confident more arrests

5:54

are imminent. People rushed

5:56

to the Assyrian Orthodox Christian Church after a

5:58

Syrian police officer was arrested. 16-year-old allegedly

6:01

stabbed its bishop who was

6:03

conducting a service being broadcast

6:05

online. One police officer suffered

6:07

a broken jaw in the melee and

6:09

paramedics say they were forced to hole up

6:11

in the church for their own safety.

6:14

As Angus Randall reports, the shocking

6:16

emergencies at both the church and

6:19

Bondi Junction highlight the dangers first

6:21

responders face. While

6:26

paramedics treat a stabbing victim inside

6:28

the Good Shepherd Church in western

6:30

Sydney, outside a crowd of hundreds

6:32

smashes police cars, New South Wales

6:34

Police Commissioner Karen Webb says those

6:36

who were involved can expect a

6:38

knock on their door. We are

6:40

working through that. There are some people we've identified

6:42

and they can expect to be arrested in the next

6:44

day or so. Two police officers were

6:47

injured during the riot. One suffered a

6:49

broken jaw. Police say projectiles

6:51

were thrown at officers, property was stolen

6:53

and at least 10 police vehicles were

6:55

damaged. Commissioner Webb was

6:58

at Fairfield Police Station in Sydney's

7:00

west yesterday where the identification process

7:02

is ongoing. We had crime

7:04

scene officers fingerprinting and DNA testing

7:06

police vehicles to identify people from

7:08

that. Whether that's one

7:11

form of evidence, there's certainly a lot

7:13

of CCTV footage and police

7:15

helicopter video that will compile and

7:18

go through painstakingly to identify those

7:20

who have broken the law and

7:22

assaulted police. Private Professor

7:24

Zanthe Mallett is a criminologist at

7:26

Griffith University. She says social media

7:29

is a huge source of intelligence

7:31

for police. A lot of videos

7:33

were being posted online almost in real

7:35

time as to what happened. They'll

7:37

look at church membership and also

7:39

there were obviously a lot of media there

7:42

who would have captured footage. So it's just

7:44

about identifying those individuals captured in that footage

7:46

who they believe may have broken the

7:48

law. Are there particular challenges around

7:50

such a chaotic crime scene? Certainly

7:53

with so many people there and so much

7:55

movement, it's going to be possibly

7:57

difficult to identify who is exactly who.

8:00

doing what, but in some of the footage you've seen

8:02

people actively climbing onto

8:04

police cars, breaking the police car

8:06

windows, etc. And those people, they'll

8:08

be easier to identify when they're

8:10

isolated from the group. But the

8:12

police will be diligent in this.

8:14

You can't have this kind of

8:16

mass social unrest.

8:19

So they will try and track down as

8:22

many people as possible. It may take some

8:24

time to identify those individuals, but they will

8:26

certainly endeavour to identify as many as possible

8:28

that were causing that unrest. Riots

8:30

are rare in Australia and prosecutions are

8:32

even rarer. After the Cronulla riots in

8:34

2005, police charged 104 people, but only

8:36

a handful were convicted. Zanti

8:42

Mallet says police will consider its

8:44

limited resources in pursuing offenders. A

8:46

lot of resources could be swallowed up

8:49

by trying to identify these individuals when

8:51

obviously policing resources are going to be

8:53

stretched at the moment anyway because of

8:56

increases in security risks and increasing in

8:58

policing just kind of on the ground

9:00

to provide that safety to the community.

9:03

So I think that they will be

9:05

choosing the battles as it were in

9:07

terms of how much resources

9:09

they'll be put into identifying them. But

9:11

if there's been serious criminal activity, serious

9:13

harm, for example, then that's absolutely something

9:16

the police will want to look at very

9:18

carefully. And ultimately, a crackdown on

9:20

a community in shock may cause

9:22

more unrest. Yeah, I think they do have

9:24

to be careful. They have to tread

9:26

with care because obviously that

9:28

particular community is feeling literally

9:31

attacked, feeling at risk. There are

9:33

quite a small assuring community in

9:36

that particular area in Wankley. And I

9:38

think the police, there is a certain

9:40

amount of concern that they have to

9:42

be protecting the public and obviously targeting

9:45

those who are breaking the law but

9:47

don't want to further marginalise or cause

9:49

harm to any particular group. So they

9:51

do have to tread very carefully. New

9:53

South Wales Ambulance says paramedics treated 30

9:56

people in the crowd on Monday night, but some

9:58

were forced to shelter. in the

10:00

church over threats to their safety.

10:03

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese says emergency

10:05

services must be allowed to do

10:07

their job. James Maskey is from

10:09

Fortum Australia which offers support to

10:12

first responders. The compounding nature of

10:14

these incidents so quickly, one from

10:16

the next, really highlights

10:19

that this work is dangerous and

10:21

it does have a personal cost

10:23

associated in terms of the mental

10:25

health and wellbeing to those who

10:27

respond, to those who are at

10:29

home, their families and the

10:32

community more broadly. It also underscores

10:34

the imperative of supporting those who

10:36

support us. However, there

10:38

is a high rate of

10:40

stigma, both personal and organisational

10:42

stigma across the country in

10:44

terms of accessing internal services

10:46

from agencies. So first

10:49

responders and their families must be

10:51

empowered to receive supports in a

10:53

way that resonates with them. Many

10:55

first responders may go through their

10:57

entire career without attending something as

10:59

traumatic as an alleged terrorist incident

11:01

or mass murder but James Maskey

11:03

says the daily stresses can easily

11:05

build up. It is often not

11:07

the large scale incident that has

11:09

the biggest impact upon the wellbeing

11:11

of our vital first responders. It's

11:14

the day-to-day, it's the cumulative

11:17

exposure to microstresses, through

11:19

microtraumas but also macrotraumas that

11:22

compounds and enhances I guess

11:24

the mental health prevalence of

11:27

first responders in terms of their mental

11:29

health diagnosis and suicidality but also how

11:31

they're travelling in any given moment. First

11:34

responders will remain on high alert

11:36

across Sydney over the next few

11:39

days. Bondi Junction Shopping Centre will

11:41

reopen tomorrow for a community reflection

11:43

day before resuming normal trading hours

11:45

with an increased security presence from

11:47

Friday. Angus Randall, the

11:50

Queensland Government is trying to get

11:52

past months of angry debate about

11:54

its plans for the 2032 Olympics

11:57

by setting up an independent authority.

11:59

to deliver the event but questions

12:01

remain about how the roll out

12:03

of the games is being managed.

12:06

A Senate inquiry has heard the

12:08

government still considering whether it's made

12:10

the right choice for its main

12:12

Olympic stadium despite confidently declaring it's

12:15

the best option. Stephanie Smale has

12:17

more. This year's

12:19

Paris Olympics are only months

12:21

away but big questions remain

12:23

about the delays in starting

12:25

Brisbane's transformation into an Olympic

12:27

city. Deep division over venues

12:29

for the 2032 games

12:31

continues and a Senate committee is

12:34

looking into the situation. National

12:36

Senator Matt Canavan asked the head

12:38

of Queensland State Development Department Graham

12:41

Prain how the main Olympic stadium

12:43

was picked over a range of

12:45

others. He admitted work is

12:47

still underway to figure out whether it's

12:50

a smart move. How can we assure

12:52

ourselves that this is a good value for money? Indeed.

12:55

Thank you Senator and in fact that is

12:57

the work that we are now commencing

13:00

on a project validation report

13:02

for. Aren't we shooting

13:04

first and asking questions later? To

13:06

help ease the political heat in

13:08

the Olympic debate the Queensland Government

13:10

has moved to set up an

13:13

independent Olympic delivery authority with legislation

13:15

to make it happen introduced today.

13:17

Its first big job will be

13:19

to lock in transport projects but

13:21

it looks like there will be

13:23

more delays there too with Graham

13:25

Prain telling Senator Bridget McKenzie it

13:27

could take another year and a

13:29

half to lock in what's needed

13:31

and where. Even if we pass

13:33

the bill today it is

13:35

18 months additional. Within 18

13:37

months yes. It will

13:39

be handed down in 18 in

13:42

2026. Then we need to procure contracts

13:45

for construction to

13:47

communities who will be impacted.

13:50

As I mentioned. And the long runway

13:52

that the new norms were supposed to deliver

13:54

this community and this country about

13:57

buy in and legacy. completely

14:00

eroded. But Mr Frane has assured

14:02

the committee a number of big

14:05

transport projects are already underway. The

14:08

committee was made up of political

14:10

opponents of the Queensland Government today

14:12

with Liberal, Nationals and Green senators

14:14

asking the questions. Olympic

14:16

veteran John Coats also gave evidence

14:18

repeating his personal take on how

14:21

the public views the toing and

14:23

throwing. We're on the nose, it's

14:25

dropped as low as 40 percent. I've

14:27

got a good smell for this sort of thing. Liberal

14:30

Senator Anne Ruston quizzed Mr Coats

14:32

about the so-called new norm ideal

14:34

to use existing venues and reduce

14:37

spending as much as possible. We

14:39

had 83 percent of the venues

14:42

in place and we had the

14:44

remaining that could be

14:46

put in place through upgrading or

14:49

a new plan such as the Brisbane

14:52

Arena. My question was how

14:54

many Olympic events could be held

14:56

in Brisbane or Queensland today? 83

14:59

percent. There's still a lot

15:01

of work to do though. Billions

15:03

of dollars worth in fact to

15:05

deliver stadium upgrades for the opening

15:07

and closing ceremonies and to host

15:09

athletics. John Coats who's a board

15:12

member of the Brisbane Olympic Organising

15:14

Committee denies he was involved in

15:16

picking venues in an official capacity.

15:18

But he's told the committee he

15:20

was in contact with the Queensland

15:22

Government and made it clear he

15:24

wasn't a fan of an expensive

15:26

brand new stadium in inner Brisbane.

15:28

The Olympic movement's position on Victoria Park

15:30

was you can go ahead and build

15:33

Victoria Park if that's what the city

15:35

needs and you can afford that but

15:37

that's not not to be kicked

15:40

off as an Olympic cost. If we

15:42

can do QSAC at

15:44

1.6 billion dollars then

15:46

that's what we should be doing. Olympic

15:49

historian Dr Richard Barker says despite

15:51

the angry debate over delays there's

15:53

plenty of time to deliver a

15:56

good games. He says setting up

15:58

a coordination authority for the Sydney

16:00

Games was a good move. As a

16:02

result of that, they linked up everything

16:04

and the facilities were all built and

16:06

the transport was sorted out and the

16:08

Olympic Games and the Paralympic Games were

16:10

held very successfully. Dr Barker says

16:13

October's state election could change the

16:15

Olympic landscape yet again, but he

16:18

says it's unlikely the Games won't

16:20

happen, however they're delivered. There's

16:22

no question Australia can't run a fantastic

16:25

Games. Both the Melbourne and Sydney Games

16:27

proved that we've got the expertise and

16:29

the manpower and the Olympic history to

16:31

run a fantastic set of Games. We're

16:34

just toying and froing those recommendations by

16:36

the Cork Report. What did we say? 27

16:38

of the 30 were agreed to. There's

16:41

only a few that weren't. The Queensland Government

16:43

says the Independent Olympic Delivery Authority should

16:45

be up and running by the middle

16:48

of the year. Stephanie

16:50

Smale reporting. This is PM. I'm

16:52

Samantha Donovan. You can hear all

16:54

our programs live or later on

16:56

the ABC Listen App. Ahead, mystery

16:59

surrounds the death of a woman

17:01

at a Victorian wellness retreat. The

17:09

United States is slapping more sanctions

17:11

on Iran as punishment for its

17:13

weekend attack on Israel. The

17:16

Americans and their allies are

17:18

hoping to thwart a major

17:20

conflict by dissuading Israel from

17:22

pushing ahead with any military

17:24

reprisal against Iran. But Israel's

17:26

top general isn't dampening the

17:28

tension. He's warning the attack

17:30

won't go unanswered. Rachel Meeley

17:33

reports. It's a

17:35

demonstration of brinkmanship with the

17:37

highest possible stakes. Israel's

17:39

top army general, Herzi Halevi, says

17:42

his country will respond to the

17:44

Iranian assault. We are

17:47

closely assessing the situation. We

17:49

remain at our highest level

17:51

of readiness. Iran will face

17:54

the consequences for its

17:56

actions. We will choose our response

17:58

accordingly. Iran says

18:01

Saturday's drone and missile attack was

18:03

in direct retaliation for Israel's bombing

18:05

of its consulate in Syria. It's

18:08

not considering any further actions unless

18:11

it's pushed again. Iran's

18:13

foreign minister is Hussein Amir

18:15

Abdul-Ahyan. The Israeli regime makes

18:18

the mistake. This

18:23

time, Iran's response, as Iran's military

18:25

commanders have already announced, will not

18:27

be minimal. It will be immediate

18:29

and severe. Foreign ministers

18:31

in the European Union held an

18:34

emergency meeting to discuss the repercussions

18:36

of the attack. The EU's foreign

18:38

policy chief, Jasep Burrell, urged Israel

18:40

and Iran to step back from

18:42

the abyss. We remain

18:45

united in the objective

18:47

of avoid further escalation and

18:49

call all actors to show

18:52

restraint. He says some EU

18:54

member states have asked for sanctions

18:56

against Iran to be expanded in

18:59

response to Tehran's attack on Israel.

19:02

After this meeting, we will

19:04

increase our outreach with the key

19:06

partners in the region, and some

19:08

member states propose the

19:10

adoption of an expand

19:12

the restrictive measures against

19:14

Iran. At the weekend, the

19:16

United States and other military allies came

19:19

to the aid of Israel and shot

19:21

down more than 350 exploding

19:23

drones and missiles that Iran

19:25

sent towards Israel. Amin

19:28

Cykel is a professor of Middle

19:30

Eastern Central Asian and Islamic Studies

19:32

at ANU. He thinks

19:34

Benjamin Netanyahu should acknowledge that

19:37

help by listening to their

19:39

pleas for de-escalation. And

19:41

I think the Biden administration, of

19:43

course the British administration, they were

19:45

already saying that and basically trying

19:48

to tell Israel that yes, you

19:50

went one death fight because you've

19:52

been able to shoot down 99%

19:54

of the missiles and drones. But

20:00

also there is a clear

20:02

indication that the United States

20:04

and Britain played a big

20:06

role in that. And therefore

20:09

you have to listen to us

20:11

what we say in terms of opening

20:14

the door for a big war with Iran.

20:16

He says today's announcement of U.S.

20:18

sanctions against Iran is another gesture

20:20

to ask Israel to work with

20:23

it. They want to

20:25

give assurance to Israel that,

20:28

look, we are still on your side

20:30

and we are prepared to level

20:35

more sanctions against Iran. But

20:38

whether that will persuade Netanyahu

20:40

leadership, that remains to be

20:42

seen. But at the

20:45

moment, the objective of those sanctions

20:48

is basically to calm

20:50

down Netanyahu and his

20:52

generals in terms of moving

20:54

towards the war. Professor Cykle says

20:57

the longer the tension with Iran

20:59

lingers, the more the focus comes

21:01

off the war in Gaza. The

21:03

eyes are off Gaza at the

21:06

moment and the plight of the

21:08

Palestinian people and that's enclave. And

21:10

instead of really having the main

21:12

game between Iran and Israel, the

21:15

main focus should be on Gaza.

21:17

And I think that

21:19

is where the whole thing

21:21

really started. And I think

21:24

it is about time that

21:26

Israel and all its international

21:28

buckets focus exclusively on how

21:30

to really end the Gaza

21:33

war and bring about

21:35

a permanent ceasefire and

21:37

to use that as the

21:39

basis for reaching a negotiated

21:41

settlement of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

21:43

in the context of the

21:45

two-state solution. Professor

21:48

Amin Cykle, who's a Middle

21:50

East expert at the ANU,

21:52

Rachel Mearley reporting, police

21:54

are trying to work out what

21:56

caused the death of a woman

21:59

who was staying at a wellness

22:01

retreat in Central Victoria last weekend.

22:03

53-year-old Mel Burney and Rachel Dixon

22:05

was staying at the Soul Barn

22:07

in Clunes, which is near Ballarat.

22:09

It's understood she drank some sort

22:12

of mushroom drink before she died.

22:14

ABC reporter Cian Valance has been

22:16

in Clunes today. Cian,

22:18

what do we know about the death of

22:20

Rachel Dixon? Well at

22:22

this point police are telling us

22:24

that there were reports of a

22:26

woman who was unconscious on Saturday.

22:29

The first people who were alerted

22:31

were locals via the Good Sam Act.

22:33

So basically it just alerts people

22:35

with first day training that somebody

22:38

needs help. So a few locals

22:40

went down and performed CPR before

22:42

paramedics arrived. But even

22:44

though they tried desperately for, we

22:46

understand around half an hour, Rachel

22:49

Dixon couldn't be saved and

22:51

actually died there at the scene.

22:53

Cian, what are police saying about

22:55

this mushroom drink that she's apparently

22:57

ingested? Well they're

23:00

staying very tight-lipped because it

23:02

is preparing a report for

23:04

the coroner for. At this

23:06

point we do understand that it was

23:09

a mushroom drink but we don't know

23:11

the cause of death. So even though

23:13

it was drunk just before

23:15

she died, we can't confirm that

23:17

that is how she died. We

23:19

did talk to a toxicologist today

23:22

who said that yes, one mushroom

23:24

can cause immediate death but that

23:26

he doesn't know of one that

23:28

will cause a cardiac arrest like

23:30

this. So police are being very cautious. They

23:33

are waiting for all of the

23:35

results to come back and then

23:37

they'll prepare a report for the coroner before

23:39

we know exactly what was in that drink

23:41

and whether it did in fact contribute to

23:43

her death. So there's no word

23:45

on what type of mushrooms were in the drink?

23:48

No, not at this point. And

23:50

how many people also drank that

23:53

drink and were they affected? Well

23:56

we understand that there was a group of people

23:58

at this event and that two other women

24:00

were taken to hospital. They

24:02

were discharged pretty soon afterwards and one

24:05

of the first responders we spoke to

24:07

said that that was really a precaution

24:09

and it was really only Rachel Dixon

24:11

who had this really severe reaction. Now

24:14

this happened at a wellness retreat

24:16

in Clunes. You've been in the

24:18

area today. What kind of services

24:20

does it provide? Well Solbarn is

24:22

sort of sold as this holistic

24:25

retreat. So basically it's the store

24:27

that sells all sorts of crystals

24:30

and wellness sort of merchandise. They

24:33

also run sound healing. There are

24:35

massages and facials and those sort

24:37

of treatments but they did actually

24:40

post a statement on social media

24:42

today saying that they are they

24:44

have deep sorrow and shock and

24:47

that Solbarn hires out the workshop

24:49

space to external businesses and that's

24:51

what's actually happened on Saturday night.

24:54

So none of their staff were

24:56

involved with what happened or any

24:59

of their regular therapists but

25:02

the store will remain closed while

25:04

police investigate just what's gone so

25:06

tragically wrong. And Sian this

25:09

has been a really tough time for the

25:11

little town of Clunes. Local

25:13

woman Hannah McGuire was allegedly

25:15

murdered by her former partner

25:17

recently. What's the mood like in

25:20

town? What are people saying? People

25:22

are just shocked. This is a town of 1700

25:25

people so they're used to it

25:28

being quiet but this has absolutely

25:30

rocked them. We spoke with the

25:32

Mayor today. He said

25:34

that the council is offering free counselling

25:36

services because also

25:38

in this community over the past few years they've

25:40

seen fires, they've seen floods just nearby

25:43

in Dalesford, they had that horrific crash

25:45

in November that saw five people lose

25:47

their lives and so they've learned from

25:49

that that trauma isn't always immediate. Sometimes

25:51

it can happen after six months afterwards

25:54

that people are hit. You know at

25:56

the moment people are sort of feeling

25:58

adrenaline, they've rushed to hell. help but

26:01

now as it gets more quiet they

26:03

just want to make sure that everyone's

26:05

okay. He says the community is very

26:07

resilient and that's what we picked up

26:09

from talking to everyone and they're rallying

26:11

together really supporting especially the business owner

26:13

who is shocked and devastated

26:16

herself but yeah this

26:18

is the time they are really just coming together

26:20

to support each other but also that extra support

26:22

is there for them if they need it. ABC

26:25

reporter Sian Valence who's been in

26:27

Clunes in central Victoria today. Well

26:29

it might feel like a lifetime

26:32

ago now but the early results

26:34

of Australia's massive COVID vaccine rollout

26:37

are under scrutiny again today. A

26:40

new study by researchers at

26:42

RMIT and Monash universities has

26:44

found that in New South

26:46

Wales alone the vaccination campaign likely

26:48

prevented more than 17,000

26:51

deaths in the over 50 age group.

26:53

Associate Professor Hassan Valli is

26:56

an epidemiologist at Deakin. He

26:58

told David Sparks the findings

27:00

show just how important the

27:02

vaccines have been. I

27:04

think we can take it as a very

27:06

good approximation of the success

27:08

of the vaccination program. I

27:10

think those figures are

27:13

amazing and if you do the maths I

27:15

think the figures they quote there

27:18

was a 7.7 fold greater

27:20

mortality in those there were

27:23

unvaccinated compared to

27:25

those that were fully vaccinated and

27:28

that rose up to 11.2 fold

27:30

greater mortality when you compare

27:33

it with those people who had the

27:36

vaccination with the booster dose. So they're

27:38

extraordinary figures that I

27:40

guess confirm what you

27:43

know a lot of us have been saying

27:45

for a long time that

27:48

vaccinations were crucial in terms

27:50

of how successfully we navigated

27:53

the pandemic. Would this

27:55

estimation of deaths prevented

27:57

that's over 17,000 into

28:00

account not only the added

28:02

susceptibility if someone's unvaccinated but

28:05

also I guess the snowball effect of hospital

28:07

beds becoming full and therefore people not receiving

28:09

treatment as

28:12

it happened? Look

28:15

I think we have to be

28:17

really careful here that the

28:20

approach that these investigators took was a

28:22

very simple approach and so there are

28:24

a lot of, probably a lot

28:26

of the complexities of the

28:29

interactions that you're talking to that

28:31

may not have been accounted

28:33

for but I guess the

28:35

most important thing to say is in

28:38

not taking into account those

28:40

complexities and those nuances this

28:43

estimate is almost certainly an

28:45

underestimate. Really? Yes so

28:48

you know I think when you take into

28:51

account those indirect effects you're probably going to

28:53

get a much bigger number. To what extent

28:55

does it irk you that there are still

28:57

people out there in community who dismiss the

29:00

importance of these of those COVID

29:02

vaccines? It's hard to

29:04

put it into words to be honest. I

29:07

you know people like me who've compensated in

29:09

the media we get contacted all the time

29:11

and people share

29:14

their views in terms of

29:16

some of the misinformation out there about

29:19

vaccines and it is really frustrating because

29:22

vaccines in general are one

29:25

of the most amazing advances

29:27

of modern society and it's saved

29:31

hundreds of millions of lives even before

29:33

COVID and they

29:36

saw us through the pandemic

29:38

and saved you

29:41

know millions of lives globally so

29:43

it's hard to overstate how

29:46

important vaccines are. Associate

29:48

Professor Hassan Valli from Deakin

29:50

Uni he was speaking to

29:52

David Sparks. Thanks for joining

29:54

me for PM I'm Samantha Donovan we'll

29:56

be back at the same time tomorrow.

29:58

Good night. Hi,

30:09

I'm Sam Hawley, host of

30:12

the ABC News Daily Podcast.

30:15

It's been an unsettling few days with

30:17

two major knife crimes in Sydney. So,

30:20

what's going on? Today, an extremism

30:22

expert on what we know about the latest

30:24

attack on a church in Sydney's church

30:27

and the importance of social cohesion

30:29

in Sydney. Look

30:31

for the ABC News Daily Podcast

30:33

on the ABC News.