0:00

Hello everyone and welcome

0:02

back to Perpetual

0:04

Chess.

0:05

Before

0:08

we introduce our illustrious guest, just a

0:10

quick shout out to our presenting chess education

0:12

sponsor, Chessible. Of course they've got tons

0:14

of courses on openings,

0:17

middle games, end games, tactics, whatever

0:19

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0:22

We recently had Gotham Chess

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0:26

to plug his Chessible course, but I'm going to

0:28

nonetheless. He put a lot of work into it

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0:33

I'm excited about Alexei Shirov's

0:35

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0:38

for the Chessible format, all time classic

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0:42

show description for Perpetual Chess to

0:45

some of my all time favorite Chessible courses

0:47

complete with a quick description and reading

0:49

guidelines. So please check that out

0:51

if you're interested along with what else they have

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that's new. And of course they also have free courses

0:55

that you can check out. But

0:58

our guest, someone who I had the

1:00

privilege of playing recently in Charlotte,

1:02

North Carolina, but more importantly, she

1:05

is a professional chess player. She's a WGM

1:07

four time St. Petersburg women's champion,

1:10

a commentator, content creator,

1:12

52,000 Twitch followers. Last time

1:14

I checked 64,000 YouTube

1:16

subs, still playing all the time

1:19

as I personally witnessed. She

1:21

is also a globe trotter, constantly traveling,

1:23

tough to keep up with a polyglot, speaks amazing

1:25

English and French as well, I am told. And

1:28

I am excited to welcome WGM

1:30

Dina Belincaia to Perpetual Chess. Welcome

1:33

Dina. Thank

1:34

you so much, Ben. The pleasure

1:36

is mine. Yeah. And

1:39

we should say for people listening, we're actually

1:41

doing this live on Dina's stream. So

1:44

we're going to edit out

1:45

the inevitable stutterings

1:47

and brain farts that I may have. Dina probably

1:50

won't. If

1:52

anything sounds different or if we read a live

1:54

question, that will be why. But I'm excited

1:56

to try this out and excited to chat

1:58

with Dina. So. Dina, I wanted

2:00

to start with Reykjavik. I

2:03

get serious FOMO whenever Reykjavik

2:05

rolls around. I had the opportunity to go once

2:08

in the 2000s, but I haven't been back since.

2:11

And this year, Dina, the FOMO was especially

2:13

strong because you and a lot of your friends,

2:15

prominent streamers like Alexander Botez,

2:18

Anna Kramling, Eric Rosen, Simon

2:20

Williams, I hope I'm not forgetting anyone,

2:23

were all there and all streaming the

2:25

event. And to me, that just made it so much more

2:28

compelling. Now, I know you talked about it a

2:30

bit in one of your YouTube channels, that

2:32

it was a last minute decision to head

2:34

to Reykjavik, but I'd like

2:36

to get a little more backstory. So you, so

2:39

Alexander Botez sends you a message

2:41

and says, how are you going? And you say, sure, why not?

2:43

And did you get in touch with the organizers then?

2:46

Or did you just kind of register and show up

2:48

as anyone else would?

2:50

Yeah, it was funny indeed, because I was

2:52

actually still in Charlotte when Alex

2:55

messaged me and I was playing the GM

2:57

Norma which was right after the

2:59

out to the one that we played in for the last

3:01

round. So I was

3:03

playing my tournament, it was super rough, and

3:06

I had a definitely hard time there. And

3:08

besides, I

3:11

kind of was like, a bit tilted

3:14

off chess, and Alex messaged me

3:16

about this tournament in like a week

3:18

from the time being. So

3:22

it wasn't making much sense to me. And

3:24

in general, it's kind of super like,

3:28

yeah, I mean, obviously the organization and stuff,

3:31

but then she was insisting and

3:33

I decided to give it a

3:35

look. And I realized that it was quite

3:38

a strong event. And I think the biggest

3:40

challenge for me was to make it work

3:43

like chess wise, just because

3:45

I was about to finish my 14

3:48

classical games crimes in

3:51

a space of one week. So

3:53

it was like, I was like, if I

3:55

like a week, I will have a week break

3:57

and I will have to get back to the board. again

4:00

and play another nine rounds of classical

4:02

chess, where I would potentially be doing a

4:04

lot of social activities like, you

4:06

know, like my Twitch streaming and

4:09

I should probably, if

4:11

I go there, the only sense would be to

4:13

make it into YouTube content. So do recaps,

4:16

like, it definitely would mean more and

4:18

more sleepless nights and you know, we're

4:21

great and like, how professional

4:23

would that be for me as a

4:25

chess players,

4:26

you know, as a competitor

4:28

to actually do such how counterproductive

4:32

would that be for my chat. So that was definitely

4:34

the biggest struggle that I mean, the

4:36

biggest question that I had to solve. And

4:39

I'm definitely very much surprised

4:41

with how the tournament went in the

4:43

end, but we'll definitely get back to this one.

4:46

But when it comes to approaching the organizers

4:48

to answer your question.

4:50

Yeah, it

4:52

took me some days to reach

4:55

off and I definitely to reach

4:57

out, sorry, and I definitely should have done

5:00

it right away. Because by the

5:02

time when I reached to

5:04

Gunnar, the

5:05

director of the event, he

5:07

was pretty surprised with how late

5:09

it was. But yet he managed

5:11

to find me a spot which was very,

5:15

very appreciative, like, I really appreciated

5:18

that. And it was already after

5:20

the

5:21

registration was over. So

5:23

I think the deadline was like March 15.

5:26

Well, a couple follow ups. Number

5:29

one.

5:30

So you decide you're gonna play

5:32

I got the chance to play you in Charlotte and got a

5:34

little bit of sort of behind

5:36

the curtain view of how it goes when you stream

5:39

when you stream your games, you know, you have a phone

5:42

standing up on a tripod, you got a little

5:44

you got there a little bit late to our game. I don't know

5:46

if that had to do with the streaming or resting

5:49

or intensity prep. But

5:52

like how many of those details do you need to

5:54

sort out once you decide you're going to play in

5:56

Reykjavik?

5:58

Well, I'm actually definitely lucky with

5:59

my team overall when it comes

6:02

to streaming because for

6:04

today, we already have everything

6:06

settled up and we know how things

6:08

operate. So it's

6:11

actually very much automatic. I don't

6:13

even notice it and I have an amazing

6:15

team of moderators.

6:18

One of them is right now in the chat. We mentioned

6:20

his name. It's Groogan. You

6:22

can see him right here. So yes,

6:25

it's definitely a group of people

6:27

that helps me operate the things. And

6:30

yeah, so they actually run

6:32

the stream.

6:37

Usually what I take care of is finding the hosts

6:40

for the event. And once I agree the dates with

6:42

the host, then I pass

6:45

the hand directly to my moderator who

6:47

puts the hosts together, who prepares the layouts,

6:50

who makes them get ready for Zoom

6:52

call and for the stream and

6:55

for all the layouts and all the details

6:57

basically and just launch the Zoom call

6:59

and they're all set. And

7:01

this time in Reykjavik, it was a different

7:04

experience. It was something that I've never

7:06

tried before and something I was

7:08

really looking forward because it's kind of definitely

7:10

a step up for me, which

7:13

was to be integrated

7:15

into Boda's live streaming, live

7:18

coverage of the games. It was an

7:20

idea that Alex suggested to me back

7:22

in January when I actually spent the entire

7:25

month

7:26

staying and living with Boda

7:28

sisters after my bi-chestboxing

7:31

fight with Andrea. And Alex

7:33

mentioned such sort of cooperation

7:35

that we could potentially give

7:38

a try as going

7:40

to the chat tournaments together and making

7:43

content

7:43

together like streaming and making it even

7:45

more entertaining. And it turned

7:48

out to be really amazing because Alex

7:50

unfortunately had a rougher tournament than

7:53

me and she was playing a lot of

7:55

opponents under 2000,

7:59

which is a lot of fun. made her win her

8:01

games fast or like in general finish

8:03

her games fast. Yeah. And

8:05

I would still continue grinding. Well, in general, like

8:07

you've seen us playing like my games are

8:09

super long. Yeah, my games are usually a minimum

8:12

four

8:12

hours or five hours. So

8:15

yeah, it would make

8:17

me continue playing for super long. And

8:20

then,

8:21

especially when I got to beat

8:23

title players, I mean, such as grandmasters,

8:25

then I didn't, I lost to all international

8:28

masters,

8:28

I beat all grandma, I mean, we're almost all

8:30

grandmasters. One escape for me, I beat

8:33

grandmasters in Reykjavik. So

8:36

it would

8:36

like Alex would finish her games fast,

8:39

but I will still continue playing and people

8:41

would enjoy

8:41

watching it. You know, like,

8:43

I'm definitely not the most

8:45

regular guests on on buddha's live, but

8:47

still watching me like one

8:49

grandmaster competes with with

8:52

grandmasters and having like

8:55

hammer, you know, the grandmaster commentating

8:57

was definitely something new for

9:00

like, if,

9:01

like new formats for them as well,

9:03

in a way, and it was giving more variety.

9:06

For me was giving more exposure and overall,

9:08

it was like an amazing collaboration.

9:11

Yeah, I so I didn't watch

9:13

the Twitch streams much, but I checked out some of

9:16

your game recaps and you're a natural at that format.

9:18

You're pretty funny. And you did have some clips with

9:20

the aforementioned you and you and Ludwig Hummer,

9:22

who was, of course, impressed like the

9:24

rest of us with your game against kyuski

9:27

and circling back to what you mentioned

9:29

earlier, Deena, that you had a rough time in Charlotte.

9:31

So for listeners, there were two tournaments

9:34

there, the Alto, which is at least 21. I've

9:36

shouted it out before I like it as

9:38

sort of a break from playing all

9:40

these young monsters, although certainly they deserve

9:43

their place in the chess world as well. So I had

9:45

a good time got to play Deena. It

9:47

was a well contested game, but she outplayed

9:50

me and out calculated me. In the end, we

9:52

might talk about that more later. But Deena

9:54

then stuck around and played an invitational event.

9:56

And as she mentioned, things didn't go that well. So when

9:58

I was thinking about asking you. interview you. I was

10:01

like, well, I don't know if the timing is right, because often

10:03

when you reach out to a cast after they've had a rough

10:05

tournament, they don't really want to talk about it, which

10:08

I totally understand. But I

10:10

saw that playing in Reykjavik as well. So,

10:12

and we're glad it has a happier ending

10:15

as you, you had those two results. But

10:17

one more question on Reykjavik or at least

10:19

one more, Dina, is so I'm

10:21

curious, people like yourself and, and Alexandra

10:24

Botes and Eric, once

10:26

you did decide to play, are you asking for conditions?

10:28

Because I do feel like

10:29

it really raises the profile of these tournaments.

10:32

And as a chess fan, which I primarily

10:35

am, like it makes me much more interested

10:37

in the tournament. And obviously, the legend

10:39

Yvonne Trook was the top seed shout outs and he

10:41

was going to us who won the tournament in

10:43

impressive fashion. But to me, like

10:46

having these people that you feel like you have a stake

10:48

in rooting for really adds to it. So were

10:50

you worried about conditions? Or do you feel like

10:52

the content benefits that you alluded

10:55

to are conditions enough?

10:57

So overall, in general, streamers

11:00

do get conditions, obviously, and this

11:03

is normal. And this is very, very nice. So

11:05

from the part of organizers, because it's definitely not

11:07

the case at other events. When

11:11

it comes to me, unfortunately, I was signing

11:13

up for such a late notice that there were no

11:15

more spots for conditions

11:17

available. But that wasn't actually a

11:21

even like a question on the spectrum

11:24

for me, because like I knew it was for something

11:27

way bigger, and it was more for for my,

11:29

you know, for my long term career growth.

11:31

So it didn't matter that much, probably

11:34

because I've managed to, you know, already

11:37

to build a kind of like, more

11:39

or less successful

11:42

overall business, if I can call

11:44

it so as the Belling Kai or

11:46

Dina Belling Kai that like such decisions

11:48

is to jump on this or that trip for last

11:51

meal, but I know it's beneficial for content

11:53

does not require me

11:54

to like to be having

11:56

this side thoughts on like,

11:59

okay, but what if I don't get the invitation,

12:01

like what do I have to cover my expenses on

12:03

my own? And that's definitely due to the tremendous

12:06

support of my community on all the platforms

12:08

that I do content for. But overall,

12:13

yes, to answer your question, definitely

12:16

Reykjavik

12:16

open

12:18

organizers are extremely supportive when it comes

12:20

to streamers and the invitations. And

12:22

that's definitely a must thing

12:25

as I think of or for

12:27

the future of chess.

12:29

Yeah, I agree. So I hope you make it out there

12:31

more. I know you're traveling a bunch. Now, let me

12:33

ask you, Dina, because I know different people approach

12:35

the game recaps differently. Like some of them

12:38

just will live stream their thoughts after

12:40

the game. I know like Ben Feingold does that,

12:42

for example. And like I said, I didn't

12:44

catch your streams, but I watched your videos, but I

12:47

wasn't sure because you had some funny jokes in

12:49

there. I wasn't sure if they were planned or not. So

12:52

are your game recaps that you're doing on a tournament

12:54

like Reykjavik? Like, are you producing

12:57

those separately or are those coming from your stream?

13:01

Oh, so it's pretty

13:03

simple. When I play

13:06

the game,

13:08

so I'm on the live of

13:11

a Twitch channel, either mine or as it was

13:14

in Reykjavik, Botez Live. And

13:16

then there is like a host

13:18

commentating those games. I want

13:20

to do YouTube recaps. So

13:23

it's usually like later on in the

13:25

evening or the next morning when I get back

13:27

to my hotel room and then I analyze

13:29

my game with the engine, like

13:32

on a chess base with Stockfish.

13:34

I go to the game and I like kind of like

13:37

understand everything what happens when I have

13:39

this clear

13:41

summary in my head. I set

13:44

up my camera, my microphone,

13:46

and I record the game on my laptop, like

13:48

the analysis of the game on my laptop. And

13:50

then when my team does the editing,

13:53

they usually just sometimes they

13:55

can include the clips. I mean,

13:57

usually we would try to include the clips.

13:59

from the

14:02

from the live commentary because it adds

14:04

more dynamics and it's also very nice

14:07

to watch you know like the complete scene

14:09

of how it was in action.

14:12

Okay

14:12

and I see in chat the original black pepper

14:15

says he's glad ben johnson is not in the discord

14:17

because what would I think of the messages dina sent

14:19

after the games out of the now first

14:22

of all let me say I did

14:24

get to catch her post mortem so the way it works

14:27

is when when dina play someone. She's

14:30

got a jet out after the game so obviously she was

14:32

polite she shook my hand but then she went upstairs

14:35

to stream her post mortem and

14:37

a friend of mine.

14:39

I had shout out to add grab me a few minutes

14:41

later and said hey she's live streaming the post mortem

14:44

so obviously having just lost to

14:46

a stronger player I was excited to see her

14:48

thoughts so I was able to catch that

14:50

and as I told dina. Subsequently

14:52

like I actually learned from it because I don't

14:54

know if this is what you said indeed discord I'll

14:57

ask you in a second but basically

14:59

you're philosophical about the game I felt like

15:01

I had decent chances I had a little bit more

15:03

attacking prospects. Then you

15:06

but you were basically just like sooner or later he's

15:08

gonna mess up

15:09

and sure enough that was true

15:11

and I was I was saying like that's instructive

15:14

to me because obviously in this case you're stronger

15:16

than me but when I play. When

15:18

I play players lower rated than me sometimes

15:20

I try to sort of if the game is not going the way

15:23

I want I get the idea that I'm going to think my

15:25

way out of it and in reality you

15:27

just have to play decent moves and

15:30

sooner or later they'll mess up hopefully it seems

15:32

like these days they don't mess up as often as they

15:34

used to but anyway I found that instructive

15:36

but if that was not the trash you talked in discord

15:39

dina I want you to review what you said.

15:42

No obviously not usually when I when

15:44

I use my discord for so first of all I need

15:46

to explain that the discord is like our

15:48

like the core

15:50

group community people who

15:52

have been there with with us from the

15:54

very beginning it's by the way now the beginning

15:56

of April is the official three years

15:59

anniversary of me. having started streaming on Twitch.

16:01

I remember I signed at my chess.com partnership

16:03

contract on April 4, 2020. So

16:07

it's been three years of long grinds

16:09

and there are definitely a group of people who, by the way, you

16:11

can see right now in our live chat on Twitch,

16:14

who have been there from the very beginning and they kind

16:16

of like continue this, this,

16:19

you know, this exchange of

16:21

like this kind of like, you know, e-friendship,

16:23

if I can call it so, like, uh, and

16:26

hanging out together in our discord.

16:28

And this is a group of people where I can be, you know,

16:30

my most like natural self,

16:32

so definitely it comes to those moments

16:35

when I finish like tough

16:37

games. Either I miss winning

16:39

chances in a make control. Like I was with

16:42

the third grandmaster who I didn't, uh,

16:45

take a scalp off in Reykjavik

16:48

or when I lose like painful, like

16:50

just war when I lose. And I know that community

16:52

has been following that. And I know it's the fact that

16:54

they know what I'm talking about. And then I'm going to

16:56

that discord and I send some very

16:58

emotional, deep and dark messages

17:01

that I would never post anywhere. I

17:04

hope no one makes a screenshot. And even if

17:06

you do, I would always

17:07

say that it's a Photoshop. So

17:10

yeah,

17:10

I'm safe there.

17:13

But, um, when it comes

17:15

to giving my thoughts after

17:17

the game on my tweet channel, I think whatever

17:20

is life, I definitely try

17:22

to keep it professional and know

17:24

like, you know, not being toxic,

17:27

but on discord, I can let myself

17:29

free and be just as toxic as I want

17:32

to be. And talk trash about me.

17:34

Um, yes, I can do so. And

17:36

it's very bad, but I can do so. Yes.

17:40

But, but I mean, I didn't, you

17:42

see, I won against you, right? But

17:45

so there was no, I didn't

17:47

have any negativity inside. I didn't want

17:49

to talk trash about you. I didn't have

17:51

that. Yeah. It didn't have to kick me when I'm down.

17:53

I get it. Yeah. It's all

17:55

it's only, but when you, when you speak

17:57

about the philosophical part,

17:59

Oh, definitely the game, like

18:02

the chess game is like the whole

18:04

life that I leave. And I have a

18:07

whole bunch of emotions, definitely

18:09

way too much because sometimes they totally

18:12

mess up with my brain and make me do

18:15

worse decisions. Especially when I

18:17

guess to let's say like converting

18:19

your advantage or like stuff like that. But

18:23

it's a lot of learning, but it's

18:25

mostly a lot of practice. And

18:28

as far as of today, I've been grinding

18:30

for soon to be like what, 25, 26,

18:32

24 years of competitive chess. Yeah,

18:37

I definitely am a practical player.

18:40

So when it comes to those conclusions,

18:43

they come from with

18:45

just having played so many opponents

18:48

and knowing like what's the strategy. Okay,

18:50

what's the strategy when you play against lower rated player? What's

18:52

the strategy against when you play against higher rated

18:54

player is definitely not the same case. And like,

18:57

you know, just

18:58

keeping up with good moves and

19:00

like watching your opponent getting

19:03

lower and lower on time is definitely like

19:06

a super safe strategy. And when

19:08

it comes to facing lower rated opponents,

19:11

they always mess up at some point

19:13

unless you mess up first, which would be

19:15

an accident. And then it would

19:16

lead to toxic discord messages. Okay.

19:20

And let's bring it back to Reykjavik, Dina. So

19:23

as you mentioned, you're pretty busy because the tournament,

19:25

there were more to a game, two days

19:28

in a game rounds than I remembered

19:30

from the time that I played. And

19:32

as you mentioned, all the content that you're creating

19:34

creates additional demand. But I think

19:36

the reason someone like me feels FOMO

19:39

and probably a lot of the people watching

19:41

slash listening is because it just

19:43

seems fun. So I'm curious,

19:45

Dina, you know, you're seeing your friends. There's

19:47

chess fans there. I'm sure that they

19:50

want to say hi to you. Like I

19:52

know the Reykjavik Open in particular

19:55

is famous for like a pub

19:57

quiz night that they do. They've got

19:59

a blitz tournament.

20:01

So do you get to do much socializing

20:03

or does all the content creation kind of

20:06

remove that possibility for you?

20:10

It's funny you ask it and you might

20:12

be surprised, but I'm not a

20:14

social person at all when it comes to

20:17

nothing related

20:19

to work. When

20:21

it comes to entertainment, I'm not

20:24

a social person.

20:28

During the tournament, I had

20:31

zero social life. Literally zero.

20:33

I didn't have time to eat. I didn't

20:36

have time to sleep. I didn't have

20:38

enough time to record my podcasts. Sorry,

20:41

my recaps. I didn't have enough time

20:43

to prepare for my games, but

20:46

I had a lot of inspiration

20:49

and motivation and I

20:51

was super confident and

20:53

I was super in the zone. So,

20:56

yeah,

20:58

again, giving you way

21:00

too many details that you asked for, but

21:02

I hope this is what you're here for. Yeah,

21:05

for sure. And

21:07

someone like Simon Williams, who was actually

21:10

there, this was before he was famous when

21:12

I went, I think it was 2006 and we

21:14

spent, you know, I got to know him a little bit through

21:16

mutual friends, had some drinks at a pub

21:18

with him. And I saw some, you

21:20

know, he's no stranger to the pub as we know.

21:23

And I saw some pictures of him socializing.

21:26

So were you hearing about like, were

21:28

people texting you and saying like, hey, we're going

21:30

here, but you couldn't make it? Or were you just so

21:33

sort of in the zone that like, you

21:35

know, like how much socializing was going on

21:37

beyond what

21:37

you weren't able to participate in is what I'm

21:40

asking for anyone interested in going

21:42

in the future? There

21:43

is definitely have been so much

21:46

of like lots and lots of socializing

21:49

for sure. I wasn't a part of that

21:52

because I had other priorities such

21:54

as like, you know, just rest

21:57

after my 10 hours games or chat.

21:59

and recording recaps and my

22:02

mind was honestly my mind was all over YouTube

22:05

and I could develop this

22:07

subject more later on because it's definitely

22:09

been a turning point for my

22:12

YouTube grind. But I

22:14

did like catch up with some

22:17

chess players and such as Simon

22:19

Willis himself in the hotel because we're all mostly

22:22

staying in the same hotel and

22:24

especially creators. So

22:27

I did catch up with Simon but it was always

22:30

like randomly just going

22:32

to the dinner when he was still there. And

22:36

same with Alex, we did catch

22:39

up couple of times in the beginning and

22:41

then things have been so tense,

22:43

like so insanely like complete

22:47

that I could see that even she

22:50

was like super super busy. I

22:52

mean obviously it wasn't

22:54

just my case.

22:55

We did have a nice night out

22:57

in the last evening and that

23:00

was probably because everything

23:01

like ended and it was like you know we didn't

23:04

have

23:04

that pressure to record recaps or

23:06

prepare for the game. So like both me,

23:08

Alex and Simon we actually did go out

23:11

to the bar and Anna

23:13

Crowley was also there on

23:15

the last evening. We did play some Blitz

23:18

for fun and we all suppose

23:20

had some photos so it

23:23

was the exact way you described

23:25

it. But for us it was only like it

23:27

only happened once and

23:29

I had zero zero time

23:31

to explore Iceland unfortunately.

23:35

Well, usually you know when it comes to chess

23:38

tournaments, unless you plan more days

23:40

in advance when you arrive and you plan more

23:42

days after the tournament, it's

23:45

impossible to catch up with

23:47

sightseeing or whatever. Like I've been,

23:49

I must have visited every

23:51

single European country and I've been to many

23:53

other places beyond Europe and

23:56

I had done

23:57

zero sightseeing. So

24:00

it's kind of like,

24:02

I think normal when you compete on

24:04

a high professional level. And now that I also

24:07

do content at the same time, it just

24:09

leaves way less time for

24:11

your

24:13

priorities. Okay.

24:15

And this was your first time playing the Reykjavik

24:18

Open? Yeah, it was my first time.

24:20

I've never done it before. And I was actually

24:22

surprised on how did I miss such

24:25

a great tournament, such a great occasion.

24:28

It's definitely a place where I would

24:30

love to be back. It has an amazingly

24:33

beautiful playing

24:34

hall, just insanely

24:36

beautiful, right in the middle of the water

24:39

of the ocean. I

24:41

think it's a bay, but still. And

24:43

the building is built on the water. And

24:46

you can see when you play, you can see the water

24:48

from... I mean, those

24:51

who are listening to us must have

24:53

seen already my YouTube

24:55

thumbnails, or we'll see for sure. I

24:57

mean,

24:57

I hope you will see. We'll link

24:59

to them. Yeah. Yes. So

25:02

you can definitely see the water even from those

25:04

pictures.

25:06

Yeah. And for listeners, if nothing

25:08

else, hopefully you guys caught Dina's

25:10

game against Grandmaster Gyuski. I

25:12

already mentioned it once. She did a great recap of it. So

25:15

I'll link to that. Be sure to at least play through the moves

25:17

of that, because amazing

25:19

game. And you

25:21

beat Grandmaster Erdos as well, which brings

25:23

me to the next topic. So I

25:26

feel like we've covered Reykjavik sort

25:28

of from a tourist slash content perspective.

25:31

But coming off a disappointing

25:33

tournament in Charlotte, then

25:35

you have this great result where you beat

25:38

a couple of Grandmasters. So where are

25:40

you in your chest? How are you feeling about

25:42

your game now, Dina?

25:44

Well, it's a very good question. It's definitely

25:46

a very vast one. It

25:49

would take several ideas to develop

25:51

this subject for sure. But since

25:53

you

25:53

asked, I'm kind

25:56

of overall, I'm kind

25:58

of living my...

26:01

my second life, my kind

26:03

of like second career now since

26:05

the last year 2022, when I switched to Israel. And

26:09

it made me a part of the

26:11

national team, which is so much

26:14

different from what it was before

26:17

of my first

26:19

decades of grinding

26:22

under the Russian flag. Because you know,

26:24

it's also the question of concurrent. So

26:26

I had a perfect like environment

26:28

from one side, but from other side, I was always

26:30

like, you know, in the second leg. And

26:33

now I stepped up to the first leg because in Russia

26:35

would be like something like top 30 or so.

26:38

And in Israel, I became like directly

26:40

like created top three and by

26:43

active basically even

26:45

like top two because the girl

26:47

like the other girl doesn't compete that much.

26:50

So it's different.

26:52

We

26:54

have like the you know, we

26:56

now have like the

26:58

team that gives you extra

27:01

pressure, but also motivation because we

27:03

have the coach, we have the trainings.

27:06

And

27:07

when it comes to tournaments, like I played

27:10

like I

27:11

play a lot of them. And you mentioned

27:13

like me having a rough tournament and then

27:15

getting to the another tournament. Overall,

27:18

like the way I approach

27:21

chess is super philosophical. Any

27:23

game is a lesson

27:26

is an opportunity to learn, to

27:28

improve. And just because it's a

27:30

game, it also depends on so

27:32

many various things you will not always perform.

27:35

And when you look at my rating, it's always have

27:37

been, you know, like ups and downs, like forever.

27:40

There are so many factors that affect

27:43

the way I play. It can be like my physical

27:45

state. It can be my mental state.

27:48

It can be my like the question of luck. It

27:50

can be the

27:52

the just some

27:56

how I would phrase it like

27:58

obviously my chess

27:59

shape as well. And

28:01

like having played 14 classical

28:04

games without barely any break and having

28:07

performed badly in them was

28:10

also like a warming

28:12

up for what was to come

28:14

next, right? But it's sometimes

28:18

there is a lot about

28:20

your your confidence

28:23

for sure. And the fact is in any sport

28:25

because chess is a sport for me is

28:29

that

28:29

the ability of being in the zone.

28:32

So I definitely could feel that I was

28:34

in the zone in Reykjavik and I was

28:36

not in Charlotte. So that was that

28:38

was affecting things surely.

28:41

But when I came to Charlotte, I was super

28:43

rusty because I haven't played chess since January

28:45

and it was like mid-March. I did

28:48

do some league games. So I think

28:50

I did four games and I did them super positively. So

28:53

it's just like so many factors. I feel

28:55

like you'd better ask like question

28:57

by question. Then it would make more

28:59

sense. Otherwise, I will just lose

29:01

you in my thought process. So

29:03

I've got to ask your secret coach for

29:06

for what you need to work on. Yeah, no, secret

29:08

coach is not going to very well. This

29:11

is something that's a question of a principle. Yeah,

29:13

for listeners after Dina

29:16

defeated me, I got to have dinner with

29:19

Dina and Peter Giannado and Grant on

29:21

and a few other members of the Charlotte chess club team.

29:24

And we tried to get out of her who her secret coach is,

29:26

but she wouldn't reveal it. So I don't

29:28

think she's going to reveal it here either. No,

29:30

no, no, no. It's like I can't

29:32

give you I can give you a reason why. So

29:35

I've always competed like professionally among

29:37

women mostly. And

29:40

like

29:41

it's kind of like

29:42

like the amount of let's say

29:45

coaches like good really

29:47

good coaches on my

29:49

level is super limited. And it often

29:51

comes to the fact that

29:53

many have the same coach.

29:56

And once they get aware of that, they

29:58

can totally understand.

29:59

understand or see or expect

30:02

better the lives that you could play

30:04

against them and the

30:06

or the style that you could approach the game

30:09

or simply checking your coach

30:11

like games in the database and understanding

30:13

like what you're going to go for. And

30:16

it's definitely not the type of the information

30:18

that I would want to give to my opponents.

30:21

Makes sense. But

30:23

does your coach tell you like other certain things that

30:26

that he or she is harping on that you need

30:28

to work on?

30:29

Oh, absolutely. I mean, for sure.

30:32

But I can

30:34

tell you as a fact

30:37

that I am stealing way

30:39

too much genius catch

30:42

up phrases or like content

30:44

ideas from my coach. Like you

30:47

can see almost like

30:49

there are so many so many

30:51

super fun stuff that I even say in my recaps

30:54

that come from my coach. And I would so much

30:56

love to give him a credit because he deserves

30:58

that. But I just don't want to, you know,

31:00

to officially pronounce his name. But that's all.

31:03

But definitely it's

31:05

one of my biggest inspirations for

31:08

my own

31:08

chest. Right. Is my coach.

31:10

OK. And what sort of tips

31:13

I mean, so what everyone

31:16

anyone who's worked with a coach, whether it be in chess

31:18

or another capacity, might have like their voice

31:20

ringing in their head in certain spots. So what are

31:22

the little sayings that

31:23

that you find yourself repeating and not being

31:26

able to credit him with?

31:28

I mean, there are so many things. It's

31:30

just crazily insane how how

31:32

it's how deep it is. But if

31:35

I were to spot couple, I would say

31:37

just

31:37

play logically, like, you know, play

31:39

logically. Like he told me before the

31:43

before the game with with

31:45

the first grandmaster that I beat, the guy,

31:48

Yevsky, Greg. So

31:51

Greg is extremely tactical

31:53

and sharp. Sometimes

31:56

he can get overconfidence in his

31:58

lines and gets like.

32:01

And, you know, push too much.

32:04

And that's exactly what happened. But Greg played

32:07

King F7 and then King

32:09

G6. Wow. Yeah, it was

32:11

like, my dear

32:13

friend, my dear friend, Brandon

32:17

Jacobson, Grandmaster

32:22

from New York, Columbia University.

32:25

I also met him in Charlotte

32:27

and then we hang out a lot

32:29

in New York and he joined me for my streams. That was

32:31

amazing. So I also have a YouTube video

32:33

with him. So, Brandon

32:36

sent me this message right after

32:39

I beat Greg.

32:40

What drugs

32:44

was your opponent on? I want to know because I want

32:46

to know. Yeah,

32:49

again. And then when I would beat second

32:52

Grandmaster, Brandon would send me another

32:54

DM saying, teach

32:56

me your ways.

32:57

I'm

32:58

playing like 1200. Oh, I thought it was going to be

33:01

what drug are you on because the

33:03

first time. First time. Yeah,

33:06

so back to my coach, when I

33:09

was playing the second Grandmaster,

33:13

my coach sent me like these

33:15

messages with advice like, so

33:18

he's super unconfident. He can

33:20

take a lot of time and get in the time troubles.

33:23

And

33:25

sometimes he can go like

33:27

crazy and you really need to

33:30

stay logical, to play logical moves. If

33:32

you play logical moves, you're going to be fine. And

33:34

that's exactly what I did. And that's in

33:37

both case, it worked perfectly. And

33:39

same one for the third Grandmaster.

33:42

And then I just, you know, there

33:44

was this moment with my third, they're

33:46

facing my third Grandmaster where I could go for this

33:48

pattern. Actually, I recorded

33:51

the recap at 5 a.m. this night,

33:53

like 4 or 5 a.m. And the video

33:55

is going to be released in a couple of hours. So

33:58

you guys.

33:59

better watch that. How

34:02

my third grandmaster I faced in Reykjavik

34:05

escaped from me.

34:06

And it was the same. Like

34:09

I saw this pattern, I wanted to go

34:11

for it. And it was super logical,

34:13

just like my coach would tell me, but

34:16

I

34:16

got hesitated and afraid

34:19

and then didn't do it. And

34:22

yeah, missed doing but yeah.

34:25

So that's something you're working on.

34:27

Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's a lot of discipline,

34:30

like in everything, but

34:32

especially when it comes to me, but it's a lot of discipline

34:34

over over my brain, what

34:36

that I

34:37

try to master. And you

34:40

know, when I play my greatest games,

34:42

it's because I,

34:44

I control myself perfectly. And when

34:46

I fail, it's because I've done

34:50

just the same mistakes that I

34:51

would do already before. So it's always

34:54

about learning how to,

34:56

like step up and stop

34:58

repeating the same mistakes.

35:00

Yeah, I feel like everyone struggles

35:02

with that. Like no matter your level, it

35:04

comes down to that. And that sort of super

35:06

psychological side of OTB

35:09

chess is what what keeps what keeps

35:11

people coming back. So,

35:14

so what does, where does

35:16

that leave you? Like, are you going to have

35:18

time to study more chess? Or for you,

35:20

does most of the learning come from the competing

35:23

in the game review? Are you are you going to be grinding

35:25

tactics? You seem pretty busy, Dina.

35:28

I am busy. But that's

35:30

also how like I kind of want to

35:33

be. That's kind of like the life I've

35:35

always enjoyed. I always enjoyed being busy.

35:38

So I don't think that being busy

35:40

or creating con

35:42

content, chess content can

35:44

be any excuse of not working

35:47

on your chess. And for

35:49

me working on my chess has always

35:52

been kind of a challenge.

35:55

And there would have been moments that I would

35:57

be more successful than I and less

35:59

successful.

35:59

that definitely now that I am,

36:02

as I told you, experiencing a new chapter

36:04

in my chess career, playing for the

36:06

new flag, for the new federation, being a part

36:08

of a national team, having competed in the Olympics,

36:11

I do feel more inspiration and more motivation

36:13

to work on my chess. That definitely includes

36:16

constant daily tactic discipline, which

36:19

I yet have to muster. But

36:22

again, it's like we can't be perfect.

36:25

And I do have my

36:28

own chess goals as well. Actually,

36:30

I like I never did

36:32

a WGM norm, all my norms

36:35

would have been IAM norms. And

36:38

it's been like six years

36:40

or even seven so soon to be years

36:42

like I finished my last IAM norm.

36:45

Right now I have four out of three

36:47

needed. And funny thing,

36:49

had I made a one point

36:52

out of two in the last two games

36:56

of Ray Kirk, then I would have

36:58

taken my fifth IAM

37:00

norm. It's super lame to say that

37:03

because come on girl, calm down,

37:05

relax, you already have three, like,

37:08

like, it's just an ego thing, you know, but

37:10

it's it's a nice thing to see that I continue

37:13

performing at the level of an IAM. And

37:15

that makes me think that I definitely have

37:17

no right

37:18

to quit competitive chess before

37:21

I step like do that next

37:23

step, you know, 2400 to step on

37:25

the rating barrier that I absolutely

37:28

want to cross and I would not forgive

37:30

myself if I

37:32

didn't accomplish that as

37:34

a chess player. Mad Fientist Yeah, it's good

37:36

to have that motivation. And as you say, getting to

37:39

play for Israel and play and stuff

37:41

like the European team championship and the

37:43

Olympiad, I'm sure, is is a

37:45

good motivation as well. Well,

37:48

Deena, I know that on your content, in

37:50

addition to your own

37:53

your own chess grind,

37:57

viewers, followers of yours

37:59

probably asked for chest advice a lot. So let's

38:01

get it out of the way. What is your stock chest

38:03

advice when people ask you like, Hey, how do I get

38:05

better at chest? You know, Puzzle

38:07

Rush, my friends do a

38:10

lot of puzzles, one move tactic, you

38:12

know, my, my biggest weakness,

38:15

one move tactic. So definitely

38:17

do better than me calculate two moves

38:20

in advance.

38:20

I don't know. Having

38:22

played you, you can definitely calculate more than two moves

38:24

in advance. But, but so do

38:27

you think that that helps your classical game Puzzle

38:29

Rush?

38:30

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. It

38:32

does. Because in the

38:34

game, like, especially the way I

38:37

play chess, I do not calculate

38:40

like I've never been strong with tactics. My brain

38:42

operates in a strange

38:44

way. I always think about

38:47

ideas, concepts, like,

38:50

but I never think concrete. I never

38:52

go like into concrete calculating lines.

38:54

And it's also where like mistakes

38:57

are waiting for me because I blunder way

38:59

too much. And well, it also

39:01

depends on like, what's your, like, what's your

39:04

brain's state is?

39:05

Like, how, like, how well did

39:06

you sleep? Like, if I hadn't had

39:08

any sleep for the last three months, because

39:11

I've been like, you know, grinding nonstop, then

39:13

definitely I'm not in the best physical shape

39:15

for my chess competition. But

39:19

having those

39:22

tactical patterns coming to

39:24

you like automatically and seeing things

39:26

without willing to see them is definitely

39:30

the zone I am in

39:32

when I come after like a

39:34

one month of daily puzzle

39:37

challenges and stuff like that.

39:39

I think my best

39:41

result in the Russian, the

39:43

Russian high league was

39:46

when I came after like one month of

39:48

daily puzzle rush tactics. And

39:51

yeah, that was the year what I

39:53

qualified for the World Cup.

39:55

Also, first time ever,

39:57

it was 2021 summer and right before I

39:59

I had this Russian Heilik and Russian Heilik is like

40:02

semi-final for Russian Championship and

40:04

you get to

40:04

fight for six spots to be selected to play

40:07

with such girls as Kostin, Yukon Garech,

40:09

Kina and

40:12

others.

40:13

And I could see how insanely

40:17

better I was

40:18

in that tournament with one

40:20

or two moves tactics.

40:22

And I mean, brain

40:24

and Chas brain is just like once

40:26

again, it's a sport, it's a muscle.

40:29

It's like any other muscle, you don't train

40:31

it, it

40:33

degrades. You have to constantly

40:35

daily train it. So you're doing puzzle

40:37

rush, at least a little bit every day,

40:39

give or take? I'm supposed to

40:41

do that. Sometimes I

40:44

struggle. I think it's like,

40:46

if I were to give you an example,

40:48

it's like people who need to keep

40:51

a diet because they have some weight

40:53

issues and their

40:56

periods of their lives that they

40:58

do good. They don't eat anything

41:01

that is restricted to them. And there

41:03

are days when they fail. It's

41:06

somehow my story.

41:09

But I really, really love

41:12

the constant struggle with my own self.

41:15

Like, come on, Dina, you got to sit down and do

41:17

it. You have

41:17

to do it.

41:19

I love this pressure. Nice. And,

41:21

but Dina, puzzle rush is only a couple of years old. Of

41:23

course, obviously you've been a strong player for

41:26

a long time now and you come from the legendary

41:29

chess mecca of formerly

41:31

Leningrad, more recently in your

41:33

life, St. Petersburg, of course,

41:35

Spassky and Korchnoi

41:37

and Daimonov and so

41:39

many other legends are from there. More recently,

41:42

Peter Svidler and the FIDE World Champion Halifman

41:45

and your mom was a chess teacher. So

41:48

I want to hear a little bit about what your chess

41:50

learning was like as a girl. Like when

41:52

you were growing up, you weren't doing

41:54

puzzle rush. So what do you attribute

41:58

your success to?

41:59

When I say puzzle rush, it's

42:02

a joke form of pointing

42:05

on the importance of doing tactics, tactical

42:08

exercises. That has been

42:10

the thing I've heard for all

42:12

my life since the earliest

42:15

childhood. Solve puzzles.

42:17

Did you solve puzzles? Didn't. Did you solve puzzles?

42:19

Where's your chess puzzle book? Where's

42:22

your chess puzzle book? Show me. How many puzzles

42:24

did you solve today? Like first my mom,

42:26

then my coach who actually raised

42:28

me as a chess player. He's an

42:30

international master from the same club

42:33

where my mom works. Up to today, his name is

42:35

Andrei Prostov. He was also the coach

42:37

of Anish Giri, just like me myself. And

42:39

basically

42:40

I started training. Yes, yes. Okay,

42:42

we'll get back to that. Sorry, go ahead.

42:43

Yeah, surely. So,

42:46

like I stopped training with my mom, I think

42:48

when I was 10, from what she would tell me. So

42:50

starting from 10 years old, I would always train

42:53

with this international master.

42:56

To be honest with you, I don't ever remember

42:58

my life, in my life, playing

43:01

a game of chess with my mom.

43:03

Even though she was like, she's a chess coach. She

43:06

was the one who

43:08

initiated me into the

43:10

game. Who I would

43:12

travel to my first competition since

43:14

I was five. But yeah,

43:16

I've always had this, let's say, the guru,

43:19

yeah, coach.

43:20

And

43:24

same, always would be like, just,

43:26

it's like, um,

43:30

yeah, I don't know what to compare, just I lived

43:32

with a constant, um,

43:35

questions like, did

43:37

you solve tactics? Did you do

43:39

chess exercises?

43:42

That's interesting because, you know, I've interviewed obviously

43:44

other products of, I mean, for them

43:46

it was the Soviet, air quotes, school

43:48

of chess, like Yerma Linsky and Mikhail

43:50

Krasenko, of course, from Moscow, he's from Moscow,

43:53

not St. Petersburg. But they often

43:55

describe, they said, the reason

43:58

that there are so many monsters at chess from Russia, Russia

44:00

was not because there's some curriculum, but

44:03

because, you know, the, the fame to like

44:05

palace of pioneers where people

44:07

would just hang out for hours, hours a day

44:10

with many other strong chess players, there's a coach

44:12

there, but they said the, the

44:14

instruction wasn't necessarily that formal,

44:16

but you're the first person, Dina, who did tell me

44:18

like, we did say do tactics because

44:21

the way it's been described to me previously is

44:23

there's no, there was no set curriculum and

44:26

it's not that you were being revealed these end game

44:28

secrets that Russians are famous for. But

44:30

you're saying like, there was sort of a regimen

44:33

that people are like, I don't care what book you're

44:35

due, but you're going to grind some puzzles.

44:38

I think I didn't give you enough

44:40

context. It's like when I,

44:42

when it comes to

44:44

what I was like told to do, it would

44:46

be on my like,

44:48

on my self

44:49

work time. Okay. But

44:51

obviously, uh, the biggest

44:53

part of my chess education

44:56

would always be working

44:58

with a coach in, and

45:00

in the group in the chess club. And

45:02

when we would be there, it would constantly

45:05

be about solving, like about

45:07

doing end game exercises, studying.

45:09

Like basically I, like, if

45:12

I ever like watching, watching games of

45:14

greatest players yet playing training

45:16

games and analyzing them, but if I were

45:18

to recall my, my chess lessons in

45:21

the, in the club, then it would

45:23

always like the, the most, the brightest

45:25

flashbacks that I have, it would definitely

45:27

be playing out the status. Like my coach

45:30

would give me like 10 minutes on the clock. I

45:32

would sit there like as a kid and

45:34

like think about the position and then go for,

45:37

for

45:37

the, um,

45:40

like,

45:41

um, like playing out, you

45:43

know, when you play out the, like,

45:46

it's not like you do not show the solution

45:48

because it's a study because in the long term, but you

45:50

play it. And I remember that I would, I would like

45:52

to always do well. I love

45:55

studying like study studies.

45:58

I'm not sure. like the

46:00

positions just to explain it's it's

46:02

the positions which are artificial

46:05

created by by people and why

46:08

it is always the first to make the move.

46:10

Yeah, yeah, that's how you can know that's a

46:12

study. Yeah, and a lot of title

46:15

players have interviewed grandmasters, they

46:17

swear by them because it's often these what

46:20

what they would call invisible moves, you know, you

46:23

really sort of grow your creative muscle

46:26

and definitely would recommend Kostya

46:28

Kvyudsky's Endgame Studies 101 course

46:30

on chess ball as a good way to get

46:33

your feet wet and then it's like a vast universe

46:36

of ways to study chess. Now,

46:39

let me I want to get a little more

46:40

sort of Russian Soviet history context

46:43

from you, Dina, because as I mentioned, I have

46:45

gotten to interview a lot of Soviet players, I find this stuff

46:47

fascinating. But so you were there after the

46:49

Palace of Pioneers no longer existed,

46:52

although from my understanding, maybe they still existed

46:54

as sort of community centers. So when

46:56

where was your mom teaching when when

46:58

you were a kid?

47:00

So

47:01

the place where I grew up as a chess player

47:04

was and still is the place where my

47:06

mom works up to today, like,

47:08

right now, she's definitely at work. It's only

47:11

one hour more right now in St. Petersburg.

47:13

So yeah, it's

47:14

she's at work now. So

47:16

it's another chess club. But

47:19

in in St. Petersburg, it's just like,

47:21

we have, I

47:23

think it must be like seven or eight million

47:26

city.

47:27

So they're like,

47:29

dozens and dozens of chess

47:31

clubs. And the club where my mom works,

47:33

where I grew up, where Anish was also

47:35

taking classes. It's like one

47:37

of the biggest it's not like the most

47:40

well known as Chigurh in chess club,

47:42

or the the House

47:44

of Pioneers, as you say,

47:48

Anish Kovariets, if this is like

47:50

you remember. Yeah, so these

47:53

two are like the historical because they're

47:55

right in the city center, but we are like in like,

47:58

on the north. of

48:00

the city. So it's not a club.

48:03

Definitely some of the people watching

48:07

this or hearing this podcast would love

48:09

me to pronounce it. So I will go with

48:11

it used to be known as

48:13

Dushtva. And now it

48:15

got renamed to Sjordva,

48:18

which basically stands for it used to be like your

48:21

school of sports.

48:24

And now we changed to Olympic

48:26

school of sports. And it used to be

48:29

only for until 18 to

48:31

youth. Sorry, I keep mispronouncing this word.

48:34

But

48:34

nowadays, it's extended to whenever

48:36

you have the achievements, like for instance, I do where I've

48:38

been the multiple adults champion of

48:40

my city. Like I'm a part of the

48:43

city national team. Yeah, because you know, we

48:45

have all these greats like like Russian

48:47

national team, but also like national team,

48:49

but also like, like city like competitive

48:52

zones, you know, and

48:54

yeah,

48:57

so it's

48:59

it's like,

49:00

this is the club where she works until today. This is

49:02

the club where I grew up. This is the club where Anish

49:04

was taking classes. And it's

49:07

basically like an institution because we

49:09

have a bunch of different sports sections, by

49:11

the way, just like in the in the place

49:13

you mentioned,

49:14

which is not just chess, we have like we have ping

49:17

pong, we have some some martial arts,

49:19

we have some running stuff like that. And

49:21

it's all you know, like when it comes to Russia, all these

49:24

institutions are subsidized

49:25

by the government.

49:27

So for instance, my mom as a chess coach,

49:30

she's like she's a government worker,

49:33

she's she has this constant seller that

49:35

doesn't affect like she's not getting

49:38

affected by whatsoever, because it comes from from

49:40

the government money. But that being said, it's a very

49:42

sensitive topic nowadays. Yeah, the obvious

49:45

reasons.

49:45

Yeah, of course.

49:47

Well, I want to hear a little more about little Anish.

49:49

So, so do you remember

49:51

him? You guys are pretty close in age.

49:53

Do you do you remember him before? Obviously,

49:56

he moved to Japan. So he was only

49:58

in St. Petersburg for a few years.

49:59

But do you remember him from the classes?

50:02

He wasn't in the computer school for a few years. He

50:04

was, he, he, he, he was born

50:07

and raised in St. Louis. But in his chess years,

50:09

sorry. Like, I mean,

50:10

in his chess years, same until

50:12

he moved to, to Netherlands. So

50:15

his storyline is like, he grew

50:18

up like in the kind of the same neighborhood

50:20

where I come from. And when like our

50:22

club is, that's the reason why he went to this

50:24

club. And when he was like seven,

50:26

he went to the school to the first time.

50:28

And he got this classmate who

50:31

was into chess and already going to my mom sections.

50:34

And he was like, Hey, I do this chess there

50:36

and I really like it. You should join me. And he

50:38

joined. And this is how

50:39

he ended up like being in the group

50:41

of my mom's

50:41

students. And then my mom's right away

50:44

saw how tremendous was his talent

50:46

and kind of started supporting him through his

50:48

way. And his parents are

50:50

like, uh, both mad. I believe in

50:52

the university, uh, like Peter,

50:54

the great St. Petersburg university, the same university

50:57

that I graduated from later on. And

50:59

like his father is from Nepal, but mom is

51:01

from St. Petersburg. She's Russian. So this is where

51:04

they met. And Anish

51:06

father studied like geology,

51:09

I believe. And he just couldn't find

51:11

like job in St. Petersburg. She

51:14

would, he would keep having this

51:16

like short term contracts in Japan

51:18

because of the field that he was studying. Uh,

51:21

so I think it was something with the water,

51:23

like, you know, when the water, I don't know the name, but it comes

51:26

and

51:26

goes back. So it was like Japan was,

51:28

Japan was the right country. And that's

51:30

when they would have this, uh, trips

51:33

all over like every time, like one year in

51:35

Japan, one year

51:36

back in St. Petersburg because of the contracts

51:38

that would finish. So yes, Anish,

51:40

when growing up as a chess player, he would

51:42

spend one year like studying chess and

51:44

then spending the another year completely

51:46

being off chess because in Japan, there is just

51:48

no chess at all. But my coach, like

51:51

the same I was talking to about Andrei Prasov,

51:53

the IM, he would

51:56

give him a lot of books and then Anish would come

51:58

back having read all the books.

51:59

like play one tournament

52:02

and then gain 200 rating points. And

52:04

that would be always the same thing. And

52:06

then there was a moment which was kind

52:09

of, I believe rough for his

52:11

career, because at first when he was

52:13

like showing so many results, but

52:15

yet like it was kind of like a side

52:17

thing, Chas. His parents were more

52:19

insisting on him going to school and doing education

52:22

as any Chas parents who never

52:24

been to Chas do not really understand

52:27

the potential behind

52:27

the Chas when like, even if they

52:30

are told that their kid has an enormous

52:31

talent. So they wouldn't really

52:34

support him having days

52:36

off from school

52:38

playing the tournaments. And then it would be my mom

52:41

who would have to secretly call Anish

52:43

grandmother and tell her, yes, you need

52:45

to bring your grandson to this tournament. I

52:48

will be here. I will like, you need to play

52:50

there at this hour for like this date. And

52:53

they

52:53

would bring him and he would like

52:55

do greatly and that, and Anish was enjoying

52:57

it. So he definitely wanted to continue this journey. And

53:00

then again, he came to this

53:03

point where Anish father got

53:05

another job author with the same

53:07

field that he was studying. He

53:09

was doing the engineering in already

53:11

in the Netherlands.

53:12

Again, another country that, you know, this water

53:15

things are making definitely

53:17

more sense. So,

53:20

and that's where they moved. And that's where

53:22

the contract was like more long-term

53:24

for his parents. And that's

53:26

what made him stay. And obviously,

53:29

again, just as me, you know, like having,

53:31

like living my second

53:33

life as a chess player

53:36

in Israel as a part of national team

53:38

in Israel. I believe it was the

53:40

same for Anish when he entered the

53:42

Dutch Chess Federation

53:44

is that they constantly, they immediately

53:46

saw the potential

53:49

and the importance of such a

53:51

high-level player which I feel

53:54

myself in Israel right now. And I didn't have

53:56

the same attitude in

53:59

Russia simply because there's just too many

54:01

of us. There are too many great players in

54:03

Russia. And like, when Anish was growing up,

54:05

such players as Sanant Sughirov and

54:08

Vladimir Bilous would

54:10

just be a bit higher rated,

54:12

but also more having achieved more simply

54:14

because they have studied, they have started

54:17

studying chess earlier. So

54:19

they would already be like grandmaster, they would be

54:21

the part of the Russian youth national team,

54:23

and not Anish simply because it's just like there were

54:25

so many of them, too many. It

54:28

was funny, I remember probably the

54:30

last detail I'm gonna tell you on this one, I remember

54:32

my uncle was so, so

54:35

because I mean, I was in my uncle also played chess,

54:37

and my cousins did. So my uncle

54:40

and my cousin entered me on

54:42

the stream

54:42

the other day. I mean, just

54:44

just to give you a context, like,

54:47

in like

54:49

when you're in chess, just your basic

54:51

levels 2000, you were an amateur, you never done chess.

54:54

So that's part that's the case of my family.

54:56

So connecting this to

54:58

Anish, I probably must have lost you, but I'm

55:01

almost there. I'm here. My

55:04

uncle told me I remember when

55:07

I must have been like 10 or so. My

55:09

uncle told me

55:10

tomorrow I'm creating a website,

55:13

and I'm calling it Anish Giri. And

55:15

I'm buying this domain, because Anish

55:17

is going to be the world champion. And when he becomes

55:20

one, I'll become rich because of having

55:22

owned the

55:23

right of that website.

55:25

Wow.

55:26

And, and Anish, of course,

55:28

in addition to coming very close, and maybe

55:30

you know, I know he's still working to get there as

55:33

world champion, but obviously done quite

55:36

well for himself. He's also a Twitter

55:38

legend. Was he funny as

55:40

a little kid?

55:41

Oh, totally. Oh my gosh, he was so

55:43

hilarious. But also gave me and Anish, we

55:46

had a very rough time when we were kids,

55:48

like we're kind of like growing up a

55:50

lot together with all the chess

55:52

build, but we would constantly

55:54

be competing. I will say was so

55:56

jealous that my mom and my coach

55:58

both like were so hyped.

55:59

about him. And like, I was just

56:02

like, you know, a side actress. And

56:06

I think I made this tweet when Anish

56:08

won, finally won, cut a still. It was like,

56:10

it was funny. It was something like, finally,

56:12

my mom,

56:14

like, my mom is

56:16

happier than the day

56:18

I was born. This

56:20

was the tweet I came up with this

56:23

year. So, like,

56:25

when we were growing up, we were competing a lot in some

56:28

small, completely, like,

56:31

completely childish things. Like, I remember

56:33

we would do like Anish would say, okay, let's compare our

56:35

handwriting. Who has a more

56:37

like, cleanest, like handwriting?

56:40

And then it was right rose. I remember

56:42

it was Markovka, which is like a carrot.

56:45

And I remember like, I have up to today,

56:47

like we were maybe seven or eight.

56:49

And like, I remember how he wrote this, this

56:51

carrots in Russian, and how much

56:54

he was prettier than mine.

56:56

I was so pissed off. And

56:58

then I remember like, how much like, for

57:00

instance, I would love I love dogs.

57:03

And I would like what I would do in the training

57:05

camps in the summer training camps is that

57:07

I would go still food from

57:10

the from the kitchen,

57:12

from the like,

57:14

contain and then give it to two

57:16

dogs. And Anish would always

57:18

criticize me for that he would always laugh at me

57:20

and say, like, stop doing your your peasant,

57:23

like,

57:25

peasant like things and and and

57:27

he would always be afraid of dogs. So he would always

57:30

look

57:30

at me super like, you know, arrogantly

57:32

for doing that. I have so many more

57:35

stories of that kind

57:36

of thing. But yeah, a lot of memories, definitely.

57:39

That's funny. Yeah, I think I saw an interview with him

57:41

where he said he's not that into pets. I'm guessing

57:43

with your current schedule, you don't you don't have any pets

57:45

yourself.

57:47

Actually, my mom has quite

57:51

some we used to have two dogs and

57:53

one cat. Now she has only one

57:55

dog. And it's also like kind of old

57:57

so might pass.

57:59

But we've always had like

58:02

pets.

58:05

I do have them right now in France. Obviously,

58:08

I'm, yeah, you kind of need, you know,

58:10

the older generation to

58:12

be taking care of the pets.

58:14

Even though when we

58:16

got our first dog, it was like, I was like,

58:18

I was 14 and I told my mom, listen,

58:21

I travel all the time and you're alone. So I don't want you

58:23

to be alone. I want you to have someone like to give you a company.

58:27

So let's take a dog. And it's going to be my dog. And I'm

58:29

going to take care of that. I'm going

58:31

to like walk her out and, you know,

58:33

like pull

58:34

it out for after her. But obviously, it

58:36

was my mom's dog.

58:38

Gotcha. And I had one more question

58:40

sort of on your upbringing

58:43

and your chest development because, Dina, you've described yourself

58:45

as a late bloomer

58:47

in chest. But it sounds like you had so much infrastructure

58:49

around you. You know, obviously being

58:52

the daughter of a chest coach and having so many

58:55

chest compatriots to hang out with and so many

58:57

legends living in St. Petersburg. So

58:59

I'm curious, like, do you think that you

59:02

were really a late bloomer? Or is it more what

59:04

you were describing in that there were just so many

59:06

strong players that you were a little under the radar?

59:10

It's a very good question because

59:12

it's definitely the thing that I've

59:15

always had in my mind. But right

59:17

now, after having

59:21

turned into chest content creator and

59:23

having started like traveling around and seeing

59:28

this new chest perspectives as

59:30

like the chest in France or the chest in

59:32

the United States, I realize

59:35

how strong I am and how how

59:37

wrong that statement could have been. And

59:39

it definitely must have been the context

59:41

just because there were so many of us that I would

59:43

like. My only medal

59:46

that I won at Russian Youth Championships

59:49

was already junior under 20. And

59:52

I finished third. But

59:54

when you take any other European

59:56

country or United States and you see

59:59

as I did now in Europe,

59:59

in Israel, like I'm immediately top

1:00:02

two. And I think

1:00:04

it's just a matter of, of

1:00:06

a context and also it's

1:00:09

just way too relative, you know, as like,

1:00:12

uh, we heard some people say like,

1:00:14

it doesn't matter what's your chest level,

1:00:15

there are always going to be people who are going to be stronger

1:00:18

than, than you, right? So

1:00:20

it's also relative. So the

1:00:22

fact that I would describe myself as a late bloomer

1:00:25

is definitely a relative thing

1:00:27

and related to specifically the

1:00:29

context of, of having grown

1:00:31

up as a chess player in Russia.

1:00:33

Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Well,

1:00:36

Dina, at least from the perpetual chest perspective,

1:00:39

um, moving towards wrapping up, um,

1:00:41

at the end, uh, we'll hit up chat to see

1:00:44

if they have any questions, but let me ask you, Dina,

1:00:47

what else do you have planned for this year? Do you know what your

1:00:49

next tournament is? Any big content projects

1:00:51

coming?

1:00:53

I do have a lot of games

1:00:55

in the leagues and I, these are extremely

1:00:57

important to me because this is my

1:00:59

professional chess side and I

1:01:01

tend to them a lot. I changed

1:01:03

clubs this year for both my

1:01:06

Bundesliga German team and my French

1:01:08

team. And those are the clubs that

1:01:10

I am literally like looking forward to. Like

1:01:12

I'm seeing it as a step up for sure. Um,

1:01:16

so I've played

1:01:18

all six first rounds this

1:01:20

year for my German club and

1:01:24

I got five and a half

1:01:27

out of six, I think. Yeah. My

1:01:29

captain messaged me something like Dina,

1:01:31

I draw in a Bundesliga. What's wrong

1:01:33

with you? So in

1:01:35

April, I have three last rounds

1:01:38

of this Bundesliga.

1:01:40

And in May, I have

1:01:43

Israeli

1:01:44

league. I have French league. And

1:01:48

then

1:01:49

again, it's really in July, but the

1:01:51

biggest tournament that she's right now

1:01:53

ahead of me is definitely European

1:01:56

team championship, which is in November and that leads

1:01:59

me to the next.

1:01:59

and my team more time to prepare as

1:02:02

now we have a new coach and we

1:02:04

expect to have training camp in in

1:02:06

May, our first and hopefully

1:02:09

more to come. So this is

1:02:11

from my competitive chess side

1:02:13

and the content chess side, I definitely

1:02:15

am looking forward to

1:02:16

more tournaments together with

1:02:19

my dear friend Alex Botes

1:02:22

joining, you know, the content grind of a chess

1:02:25

streamer competing LTV. So there

1:02:27

might be more open

1:02:28

tournaments to count which we are

1:02:31

not like having fixed yet.

1:02:34

And when it comes to content, definitely

1:02:36

my biggest priority right now is going

1:02:38

to be YouTube. And I'm super

1:02:41

grateful to this Rekiave experience because

1:02:43

it gave me that important push to

1:02:45

dive into a more kind of educational

1:02:48

chess content, you know, doing recaps of my

1:02:50

games.

1:02:52

Because it's something that I

1:02:54

didn't have enough courage to do before, simply

1:02:56

because I come from a more of a

1:02:58

chess elitist kind of culture.

1:03:02

I'm not used to the fact that I

1:03:04

can take over the role and be the chess

1:03:07

guru and know all the

1:03:09

rights and wrongs and take like

1:03:12

the responsibility for

1:03:13

presenting like the truth, the

1:03:16

ultimate chess truth, like, yeah.

1:03:18

And I really, I really

1:03:21

see a lot of potential in YouTube right now,

1:03:23

definitely more than Twitch, for

1:03:25

sure. And excuse me, those

1:03:27

who are listening to this and watching us live on

1:03:29

Twitch. But it's just crazy

1:03:32

how YouTube numbers blow

1:03:34

up themselves.

1:03:36

But just by the grace of algorithm,

1:03:39

and I definitely spend the least time of

1:03:41

all on working on YouTube. And

1:03:44

like,

1:03:44

and it's just been the highest like, as you

1:03:47

mentioned in the beginning, like you can see the

1:03:49

numbers. So that's

1:03:51

going to be the agenda, but definitely

1:03:54

continuing to maintain and grow

1:03:56

our Twitch community because like

1:03:58

I believe that our developing.

1:03:59

community is one of like, you know, the most

1:04:02

like kind of like caring and supporting,

1:04:04

but also super stable. And it's

1:04:06

extremely important when you have people who

1:04:09

cheer you up this way. And

1:04:11

as I said, helps you even play better

1:04:13

when when people watch you compete and root

1:04:15

for you.

1:04:16

Yeah, for sure. And I saw I fixed fridges

1:04:19

and chat say that your recaps are amazing. I want to

1:04:21

echo that I was really impressed with them as well.

1:04:23

And Dina, one thing I just remembered that I wanted

1:04:25

to ask you is, when you are live

1:04:27

streaming your OTP games, like obviously,

1:04:30

it's a bit of additional stress setting it up

1:04:32

and stuff. And I'm also curious, like, how

1:04:35

aware of you of that? Are you when you're playing?

1:04:37

And do you think it leads to sort of heightened nerves

1:04:40

for you?

1:04:42

It's

1:04:43

a question that everybody asks me.

1:04:45

And the

1:04:48

answer is super easy. I don't even

1:04:50

notice that there is the camera right there.

1:04:52

Sometimes I catch myself with like,

1:04:55

in being in the moment of scratching

1:04:57

my nose and then Oh, gosh, I'm not the

1:04:59

camera. Or like, I have this, you know,

1:05:02

like, I do,

1:05:03

I do tend to move a lot.

1:05:05

Like when I sit at the chessboard, and

1:05:08

I like and then I just realized that people actually

1:05:11

notice that and they are like making fun of me.

1:05:13

So it's kind of like, cute, how

1:05:15

I completely forget about the camera. I think

1:05:18

it's just because once again, it's a question

1:05:20

of, of,

1:05:23

of a habit. I started

1:05:25

recording live streaming my games in

1:05:28

last May from French League and German

1:05:30

League.

1:05:32

So it's I it's been one year already

1:05:34

of doing

1:05:34

the same thing. And also because

1:05:37

I'm just natural with camera and I love camera,

1:05:39

like the reason why I enjoy so much what I do

1:05:41

right

1:05:41

now is a career like chess con creation

1:05:43

is just because I simply love being

1:05:46

on camera. I feel this is like

1:05:48

my place. And definitely

1:05:50

the fact that I there were so many people

1:05:52

watching me live, like it was up to 25

1:05:54

K watching

1:05:57

at Bodez live when I was beating the same brand

1:05:59

this x

1:05:59

and Brand Master, just the

1:06:02

idea of that gives me

1:06:04

so much more courage and motivation to play good

1:06:06

chats.

1:06:08

Awesome. Glad to hear it. All

1:06:10

right. Well, Dina,

1:06:11

I'm going to first of all say to chat, now

1:06:14

is the time if you guys have any questions, we'll

1:06:16

take a quick look and try to

1:06:18

work a couple in. But while we wait

1:06:20

for the lag and wait for the questions to filter

1:06:22

in, Dina, do you have anything you'd

1:06:24

like to add before we move

1:06:27

in the direction of saying goodbye on what

1:06:30

will be the podcast?

1:06:32

Well,

1:06:32

listen, my trademark is trash

1:06:34

talking. Okay, yeah, let's do it. So there's

1:06:36

one thing that we didn't discuss that we

1:06:38

agreed on discussing is that,

1:06:41

did

1:06:43

you see that beautiful

1:06:46

night sacrifice and making a

1:06:48

perpetual against

1:06:51

me in our game? And to give more

1:06:53

context, Eric, my community

1:06:55

actually knows that you

1:06:57

guys remember that was the last round of my

1:06:59

first tournament in the US. That was the ultimate

1:07:02

tournament round five. And I was, yeah,

1:07:04

so did

1:07:06

you see that sacrifice? Yeah,

1:07:12

I mean, while we wait for

1:07:14

the chat to filter in, I will

1:07:16

say I did, as I said, I caught your

1:07:18

post-mortem and it was funny because Dina had a funny

1:07:20

joke because there was a line I

1:07:23

actually, so from my perspective, the engine turned

1:07:25

out not to really agree. I thought I was really pushing

1:07:27

in the game. It turned out the engine was kind of yawning

1:07:29

the whole time. But there was a position

1:07:32

where Dina, she says she's not a great calculator,

1:07:34

but she saw a pretty

1:07:36

advanced line where it

1:07:39

would lead to a repetition of position.

1:07:41

So she was joking. She can't give a perpetual to

1:07:44

Mr. Perpetual to myself, which

1:07:46

is funny, but I didn't, I didn't see that

1:07:48

line. It was one of those things where I wasn't even looking

1:07:50

at the first move. So I didn't go down that

1:07:53

line. I was looking at other alternatives.

1:07:55

But as I said, you say you're not as

1:07:58

concrete as some other players. But for

1:08:01

me, from my 2100 or whatever,

1:08:03

now my feed is in the dungeon, so

1:08:05

even lower. But from my perspective,

1:08:09

you're more concrete than me. So that tells me that

1:08:11

that's something that I personally need to work

1:08:13

on. But anyway, it was funny.

1:08:16

Yeah, no, it was. It's definitely

1:08:18

funny thing to be on the podcast

1:08:20

with you after having played an actual

1:08:23

classical game with you. I definitely

1:08:26

think that's sort of a unique

1:08:28

situation. And especially, it comes right

1:08:30

after the game. So it's definitely

1:08:33

a lot of

1:08:33

fun context here being on

1:08:36

this podcast with you

1:08:38

hanging out

1:08:38

together. Yeah, that's why I didn't

1:08:41

beat you. Yeah,

1:08:43

you know I would refuse. Oh, for sure I would

1:08:45

refuse. Haven't have you

1:08:47

beaten me? I would

1:08:48

refuse your invitation. Of

1:08:51

course. All right, well, we're checking out the Twitch questions.

1:08:54

I'm not saying too many. Someone's verifying that

1:08:56

you're based in France, which I know to

1:08:58

be true. So do you mind saying,

1:09:00

are you based in Paris? Are you a city

1:09:02

or a suburbs person?

1:09:05

I'm in a suburb as of now,

1:09:07

but I'm planning to move closer to the city

1:09:09

because it's definitely going to be

1:09:12

easier to operate. And now that I have

1:09:14

my sponsor, Immortal Game, right

1:09:17

in the middle of

1:09:17

Paris

1:09:20

with their studio. And the studio

1:09:22

is going to be ready very soon. So

1:09:25

I will need to join their

1:09:28

actual studio more often. And yeah,

1:09:31

for various reasons, it's definitely

1:09:33

going to be the next step up. But

1:09:37

I'm not that far either. And

1:09:41

definitely Paris is one of the cities

1:09:43

where I enjoy living the most for

1:09:45

various reasons. And

1:09:48

it's definitely super easy with

1:09:50

the connections

1:09:50

because I travel all the time.

1:09:54

And when you were in the city,

1:09:57

in the center of Europe, it makes things so

1:09:59

much easier.

1:09:59

Especially nowadays, like

1:10:02

when, like, had I stayed

1:10:04

in Russia, like for any reason,

1:10:08

it would be almost impossible to travel nowadays

1:10:10

because of everything which is going on. Yeah,

1:10:13

that makes sense. Okay, and we do have

1:10:15

a couple questions coming in. One of

1:10:17

them was, if you had children,

1:10:20

Dina, would you encourage them to play chess?

1:10:23

Oh, that's not

1:10:26

even, that wouldn't be even a choice. That would

1:10:28

be a must. I mean, justice for me, I never

1:10:31

had, I was never asked Dina,

1:10:34

do you want to play chess? It was just, it

1:10:36

was like eating or

1:10:38

drinking or breathing. It was the same studying

1:10:40

chess. It was for me, it was only when

1:10:42

I got like maybe 15 that I realized, oh,

1:10:45

I actually play competitive chess and I actually like

1:10:47

that. Maybe I should do something for

1:10:48

it. Maybe I should like try to do some

1:10:50

efforts

1:10:50

from my own. But yeah, for

1:10:53

my children, it's definitely

1:10:53

gonna be like a must.

1:10:57

Okay, and one more question. This one's

1:10:59

from me. I forgot to ask you earlier,

1:11:01

but I mean, obviously we have a lot of tournament

1:11:03

players and there's more and more people getting into tournaments.

1:11:06

And you, even though it was your first time at Reykjavik,

1:11:09

obviously you're quite well traveled, Dina. So

1:11:11

if someone were to do one sort

1:11:13

of chess vacation in one of these big open

1:11:16

tournaments, do you have a recommendation?

1:11:18

I don't know how many you've played aside from Reykjavik.

1:11:22

Yeah, there was one more that could definitely compare

1:11:24

to it, but unfortunately, it's no longer existing.

1:11:27

It's Gibraltar. I think it's kind

1:11:29

of the same vibe, absolutely amazing

1:11:31

location and so many more interesting

1:11:33

sites and things to do. And Gibraltar,

1:11:36

there is only one game per day.

1:11:38

Yeah, so it makes also things easier.

1:11:41

It's important. Yeah, funny. Alex

1:11:43

told me like last

1:11:46

day, okay, Dina, I do want to do more

1:11:48

tournaments together with you, but please, no

1:11:50

more double rounds. Yeah,

1:11:53

yeah, it's too much. It really is.

1:11:55

It's definitely the American thing, and I can understand

1:11:57

that because people have to work in America

1:11:59

and blah, blah, blah.

1:11:59

But you know, we also

1:12:02

need to to to

1:12:03

save our energy

1:12:06

and health

1:12:06

and not get into 10 hours

1:12:09

of playing chess per day. Right. Yeah,

1:12:11

I agree. Have you played Sunway such as in

1:12:14

Spain? Thank

1:12:15

you for the recommendation. That's

1:12:17

number one on my list. I haven't played,

1:12:20

but it looks amazing. And

1:12:22

just remember that I got a WhatsApp

1:12:24

message from the organizer that I didn't respond to. Thank

1:12:27

you, Ben. Oh, sure. It's definitely it's

1:12:29

definitely the place that I want to check out.

1:12:32

Excellent. Well, glad to hear it, Dina.

1:12:34

It's been a lot of fun, you

1:12:36

know, hearing your story. And again, I forgive

1:12:38

you for defeating me. So

1:12:41

I think listeners know, but check out Dina's YouTube

1:12:43

channel. You're the Bell and Kaya across

1:12:45

platforms, right?

1:12:47

It's now Dina Bell and Kaya on YouTube.

1:12:49

OK, so Dina Bell and Kaya

1:12:52

on YouTube. And to those of you watching on Twitch,

1:12:54

thanks for tuning in. If you enjoyed

1:12:56

this interview, be sure to go through my huge

1:12:58

catalog of back interviews. You know, not

1:13:00

everyone that I interview is Dina, but

1:13:03

but we do the best we can. All

1:13:05

right. Thanks, Dina. Anything else before we say

1:13:08

goodbyes and wrap up this podcast

1:13:10

slash stream?

1:13:12

Well, Ben, I'm looking forward for you

1:13:14

taking that revenge if you dare. Yeah,

1:13:17

I better hit the books then. But yeah, sounds good

1:13:20

to

1:13:20

me.