Episode Transcript
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0:00
Southeast Asian nation of Myanmar is on
0:02
the brink of becoming a failed state.
0:05
For three years, the nation of 54 million
0:07
people has been embroiled in an
0:10
escalating civil war between the military
0:12
junta and hundreds of pro-democracy militias,
0:14
ethnic armies and local defense forces.
0:18
Civilians are suffering. The United Nations estimates that
0:20
more than 18.5 million people desperately
0:23
need humanitarian assistance. Thousands are
0:26
fleeing the country. A
0:28
2021 military coup brought to
0:31
an abrupt end Myanmar's move
0:33
toward democracy. The widespread
0:35
peaceful protests that followed were put
0:37
down by the junta with a
0:39
brutal crackdown. Scores of opposition protesters
0:41
fled the cities for the mountainous
0:43
jungles that make up much of
0:45
the country. Pro-democracy
0:48
militias and armed ethnic groups united
0:50
with the common goal of overthrowing
0:52
the junta. Last month, rebel
0:54
forces took control of a key
0:56
economic hub that was responsible for
0:58
$1 billion in trade last year.
1:01
It's among the latest in a long
1:03
line of junta defeats over the last
1:05
six months that has left resistance groups
1:07
in control of a significant part of
1:09
the country. Earlier, I spoke with Burmese-American
1:11
journalist, A. Minh Taunt, about the current
1:13
situation in Myanmar. Five E.K.
1:16
has really escalated in Myanmar since October of 2023,
1:18
where Myanmar saw large resistance
1:22
forces really coalesce and form
1:24
an ally ship and launch
1:26
a coordinated attack against the
1:29
military on multiple fronts. And
1:31
since then, major gains were made, especially
1:33
along the border regions, along major trade
1:36
routes, and in several cases, trade
1:38
towns and trade routes were able to be shut
1:40
down. Although the military
1:43
has regained control of some of these
1:45
areas, they have been dramatically
1:47
weakened. Who are these groups that
1:49
are fighting the junta military? Who
1:51
are they and what do they want? So,
1:54
there's various groups that are fighting the military. There are
1:56
what are called ethnic armed organizations,
1:59
which are are made of ethnic
2:01
groups that were essentially thrown into the
2:03
country of Myanmar together for the first
2:05
time through British colonization, but
2:07
really have a long history
2:09
of being individual, political entities.
2:11
And they've been fighting for independence
2:13
in some cases, or more legal
2:16
rights in other cases, and
2:18
in some cases, this complete separation from
2:21
the country of Myanmar proper. And
2:24
in addition to that, there are also multiple
2:26
groups that have come
2:28
to being since the coup, mostly
2:31
made out of farmers and students
2:34
and other young people from the
2:36
ethnic majority group who, since the
2:38
coup, have turned towards violent revolution
2:40
as a way to negate
2:42
the effects of the coup and try to
2:44
turn the country back towards democracy. Is
2:47
there enough common ground among these groups
2:49
beyond just defeating the
2:51
military junta, that if
2:53
they were to prevail, would they be able to establish
2:56
a government? Right now, there
2:58
is a common enemy in the military, but it's
3:01
unclear that this, the military,
3:03
were to fall tomorrow, that these groups
3:05
would be able to coalesce into a
3:07
form of government or even some sort
3:09
of interim government in order to lead
3:12
the country back into a unified whole.
3:14
On one hand, there is a civilian
3:16
shadow government that has formed since the coup,
3:18
but they don't necessarily have the buy-in of
3:22
a number of ethnic groups and
3:24
ethnic organizations that felt that
3:26
their parties, even when the civilian
3:28
government was in control, that
3:31
they really respected and saw various
3:33
ethnic groups as their equals. So
3:35
this fight has been going on for about
3:38
three years. What's been the effect
3:40
on the civilian population? The
3:42
UN Refugee Agency estimates that over 2.5
3:44
million people have now been displaced internally
3:47
in the country since the beginning of
3:49
the coup and over 100,000 people have
3:51
been displaced into
3:53
neighboring countries. And that's, of
3:55
course, not counting nearly 1 million Rohingya refugees
3:57
who were displaced in previous waves of war.
4:00
military by the way. How much
4:02
support are the displaced people, not
4:04
only within Myanmar, but who fled
4:06
Myanmar? How much support are they
4:08
getting? So various humanitarian organizations are
4:10
trying to still function in Myanmar
4:12
and distribute aid. Unfortunately, in order
4:14
for them to operate, they are
4:16
forced to essentially collaborate with the
4:18
military. And in many cases, the
4:20
military prevents these organizations from being
4:22
able to go to certain areas,
4:25
citing security concerns to distribute aid.
4:27
The surrounding countries, Thailand, India, Laos,
4:30
and China don't provide very much aid
4:32
to refugees, if any at all. Thailand
4:34
does not recognize refugees as a class.
4:37
The same holds true largely in India as well,
4:39
where the Modi administration is not happy with
4:41
the amount of refugees that are coming into
4:44
the country. Bangladesh has
4:46
really closed its borders as much as it
4:48
can to additional refugees from Myanmar. And
4:50
the border along Laos and China has also
4:53
been really on guard since COVID and has
4:55
largely not been trying to accept refugees as
4:57
well. The United Nations has
5:00
described the human rights situation in
5:02
Myanmar as a never-ending nightmare. Who's
5:04
committing these? Are these one side or the
5:06
other that's committing these human rights violations? So
5:09
according to monitoring organizations, the vast,
5:11
vast majority of human rights abuses
5:14
are being committed by the military.
5:16
The military is engaging
5:18
in extrajudicial killings. Over 50,000
5:20
people have been killed since
5:22
the coup, either
5:25
through torture, extrajudicial
5:27
killings, airstrikes, war,
5:30
arson. The military also
5:32
engages in airstrikes on largely protective
5:34
places like schools, hospitals, and religious
5:36
sites. There's a weaponization
5:39
of arson, burning down of
5:41
entire villages, rape as a weapon
5:43
of war. And lately, we're also
5:45
seeing a lot of forced recruitment by
5:47
the military. On the other hand, we
5:50
are also seeing human rights abuses from
5:52
the resistance side. There have
5:54
been reports of extrajudicial killings,
5:56
especially of people who have been
5:58
accused of being informants. for the military
6:01
or people who are seen as
6:03
collaborators who are not necessarily armed
6:05
combatants. What's the road ahead
6:07
look like? Is it possible that one side
6:09
or another could prevail or is this just
6:11
going to be a deadlock? So
6:14
the fighting has been going on for three years, but
6:16
we've really seen a lot of big moves
6:18
in the last six months, despite the fact
6:20
that the conscription law has existed for many
6:22
years at this point. This is the first
6:24
time in history that it's been used. And
6:27
analysts have taken this as a sign that this
6:29
means that the military is quite desperate to try
6:31
to fill up strength, especially as they're starting to
6:34
lose more and more battles. So
6:36
what started off as largely
6:39
young, untrained people, many of whom grew
6:41
up in cities and have never touched
6:43
the weapon, people who were largely farmers
6:46
using homemade weapons and commercial
6:48
drones, have now turned into
6:51
pretty battle-hardened troops who have
6:53
gotten their hands onto military
6:55
weapons. A. Mintant, thank you
6:58
very much. Thank you for having me.
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