0:07

It's time now for another edition of Pats from

0:09

the Past podcast. Matt Smith, Paul

0:11

Prolo and please to be joined by former

0:13

Patriot quarterback Brian hoy Or.

0:15

Brian.

0:15

Thanks for coming by, man, Thanks appreciate you on guys. Yeah,

0:17

we asked this of everybody. So I

0:19

think people who are football

0:22

fans, Patriot fans know, is Brian gonna

0:24

play?

0:24

Is Brian not gonna play? What's what's going on with Brian

0:26

Hoyr these days?

0:27

Man, I don't know. I think it would take a great opportunity

0:29

to come along for me to do that. Obviously,

0:31

I was in Las Vegas last year. I know I

0:33

can still play because I beat the Patriots

0:36

last year, one of the most tooche, one of the most It's

0:38

on my list, Brian, one of the Twitter sweet moments

0:40

of my career. So we'll talk about that later. But you

0:43

know, so I know I can still physically do it. But

0:45

at thirty eight years old, my kids are getting older.

0:48

You know, I think it would take a really great

0:50

opportunity for me, you know, to come along,

0:52

for me to to kind of look and

0:54

see. But so I know I can still do it. Body

0:57

feels relatively healthy, and you

1:00

know, so we'll see. It's always open. People

1:02

always say, you know, if someone's

1:05

offering you an opportunity to play and you feel like you could

1:07

do it, you know, you know, I remember a

1:09

former teammate saying, play till they tell you you can't.

1:12

So definitely capable of

1:14

it. It's just got to be I think, the right opportunity

1:16

at this point.

1:16

You know, idiots like us sit there

1:19

and oh, you know, you can play, or it's time to

1:21

go, and everything like that. But I don't think the

1:23

lay people realize what's

1:25

it like to make that decision as a family.

1:28

Yeah, when you have a.

1:28

Wife who's supported you cross

1:31

country trips, taking kids back

1:34

and forth, at some point in time,

1:36

her decision or her opinion, while

1:40

always valued, you got to really listen

1:42

to. That's got to be hard, like from a as a

1:44

family standpoint, like at what point time

1:46

do I need to devote my time to them?

1:48

Right? And that's a huge part of the decision making.

1:50

So that's why I said, like, it have to be the right opportunity

1:52

and all those things, because you

1:55

know, deciding to go to play in Las Vegas last year,

1:58

it was not an easy choice. It was an easy choice because

2:00

it was Josh in my relationship with him. But

2:03

it wasn't an easy choice in the regards of what

2:05

does this mean for my family? And thankfully

2:07

we had a great school here that allowed our kids

2:09

to kind of virtual school with the help of

2:11

a tutor out there. But it

2:13

was rough. It was it was a rough transition and

2:17

they were all happy to come back once the season was over.

2:19

And so now my son, he's going into seventh grade. He got

2:21

accepted as Avarian brother. So you

2:23

know, those are all things that you have to take into account,

2:25

Like I want to watch him play football at of course he's

2:28

watched me play for a long time. So maybe it's times,

2:30

you know, for a role.

2:31

Reverse when you have when

2:33

you came out of Michigan State, I mean, you

2:36

didn't get drafted, yep, And I don't know what your

2:38

expectations were heading in, but to

2:41

then have what a fifteen year career

2:44

off of that, what were your expectations sort

2:46

of when you arrived here in two

2:48

thousand and nine, what were you hoping for.

2:51

I was just talking about this with my son the other day and

2:53

I said, listen, when I didn't get drafted,

2:55

you know, I kind of thought Okay, the Patriots

2:58

are going to sign me. I'll learn for Tom

3:00

Brady. Obviously, I grew up I watched Bill

3:03

coach in Cleveland, so I always kind of had

3:05

an affinity to him, and obviously him being

3:07

a great coach, I thought it was a great opportunity

3:09

to go learn. And I thought, you know, maybe i'll make the practice

3:11

squad if I get released. At least I'll learn

3:13

from these guys. And then sure enough, I

3:15

kind of worked my way up the ranks,

3:17

ended up being Tom's backup my rookie year. And

3:20

you know, the things that I learned in those first four years

3:22

were so invaluable to me that

3:25

when I finally got some opportunities to play,

3:28

you know, you put those in motion and then you just keep

3:30

stack in years, stack in years, and and

3:32

you know the thing about the quarterback position is if you're

3:35

relatively competent and you're a good guy,

3:37

and you make some connections, you know, you just extend

3:39

your career, extend your career. That's I mean, when

3:42

I look at last year, if if Josh

3:44

isn't the head coach in Las Vegas last year,

3:46

then you know, maybe my my my career

3:48

ends there. But you know. Luckily for me, I've

3:50

met a lot of great coaches, played with a lot of

3:52

great players, and made a lot of great connections

3:55

which allowed me to do that.

3:56

That's a little bit unorthodox Brian as

3:58

a rookie, Now you're back up Brady,

4:00

who's, by the way, is coming off a knee surgery at that point,

4:02

Tom, and you're the only backup quarterback

4:04

your rookie year. That was the same way in twenty

4:07

ten, you're the only backup court.

4:08

Like, not a lot of teams did that.

4:10

Well, how did that? What was your thought

4:12

process in that? Like you want to talk about literally

4:15

next man up into your one pitch away, Yeah, you're

4:17

one pitch away at that point.

4:18

I think I was too naive to even understand that at

4:20

that point. You know, now looking back, when you realize,

4:22

like Tom's coming off of major knee

4:25

reconstruction, had you know, some hiccups

4:27

along the way. Man

4:30

if I had had to play that year, I don't know how ready I

4:32

would have been. Obviously, Bill believed in me, and

4:34

Bill O'Brien believed to me, and and so

4:36

I'm sure it would have you know, worked itself out. We had a

4:38

really good team. So I think I would have relied on those guys

4:40

around me, But you

4:43

know, at that point, you're

4:45

just I was just thrilled to be an NFL

4:47

football player, and now I'm going to a

4:49

meeting room every day with Tom Brady and soaking

4:51

up what I can I can learn from him. And then

4:54

you know, that went for four years and then until

4:56

I got released in twenty twelve. So I

4:58

mean, those years, like you, those are kind of

5:00

like, you know, the years

5:02

you're building your foundation of your career, and I couldn't

5:05

have done it in a better place.

5:06

So I wanted to ask you a little bit about that rookie

5:08

season. You were part of

5:10

some really good teams, and you know, ultimately

5:13

you were part of a champion in eighteen,

5:15

but you know, you had that great year in twenty

5:18

ten, twenty eleven, you go to the

5:20

super Bowl in two thousand and nine. You probably didn't

5:22

recognize it at the time, it's your rookie year,

5:25

but do you kind of look back and say, there was a little bit

5:27

of something amiss in two

5:29

thousand and nine. That's sort of the way it's

5:31

kind of viewed here. That was kind of a reset

5:33

year, and we're very spoiled

5:35

because we've been right of a lot of when I didn't know any better

5:38

TENNISI is going to the playoffs and all that stuff is

5:40

not.

5:40

I thought it was great. I'm like, man, I'm a great

5:42

But did.

5:43

You did you sense any like sort of dysfunction

5:46

at the time, or you know, maybe looking

5:48

back at it, do you feel like that wasn't the

5:50

same as some of the better teams that you were on.

5:52

Definitely wasn't the same. I think looking

5:54

back now, knowing what I know and being on some great

5:56

teams, it wasn't. There was definitely

5:58

some learning curve, There was some adjusting

6:00

to new I mean, that was Bill O'Brien's first year as a

6:03

coordinator here, you know, so now I know how

6:05

important that is, you know, being a quarterback. When

6:07

you're learning, even if you're keeping somewhat

6:09

of the system intact, you're working with someone new and

6:11

and that was you know, so those were kind of I guess you

6:13

call growing pains. But I thought, like, man, we're

6:16

going to the playoffs, like we're this is I'm on the

6:18

Patriots. This is like a Super Bowl organization.

6:20

Like okay, one year, you know, we

6:23

didn't win the Super Bowl and I'm like, oh, we'll win it next year.

6:25

I mean, I think that that's kind of the expectation you

6:27

have when you come into that organization.

6:30

And I've always said this, I've always

6:32

looked at it. When Tom Brady was the quarterback,

6:34

I never went into a game thinking we're not gonna

6:36

win. Ever, there was never And when

6:39

I've been on other teams, whether I was the quarterback

6:41

or someone else is the quarterback, and I'm like, man, I

6:43

don't know how much a chance we have this Sunday. And

6:46

I can honestly say every game that I ever played

6:48

here backing Tom up, that there

6:50

was I never had that feeling. And obviously

6:53

a lot of other players around that. But you

6:55

know, when I talk with a lot of my old teammates, I think

6:57

that that feeling was very you know,

6:59

similar.

7:00

Bring it up because it's

7:02

again that's why I preface it by saying

7:04

we're spoiled. You know, when that's considered

7:06

a quote unquote down here. But you

7:09

know, Bill infamously said on that

7:11

documentary, I just can't get these guys

7:13

to play there.

7:13

I was playing in that game at the time,

7:16

Tom standing I'll get rushed

7:18

by New Orleans Lewins, and I think I remember thinking

7:20

to myself, like, wow, I'm playing in a Monday night football game.

7:23

You know, like, okay, one back game, we got

7:25

crushed, but I'm playing in a Monday night football game. That's

7:27

pretty cool. And you know, you see

7:29

that and you really and then having been on champion,

7:33

champion team and teams that went to Super Bowls, you

7:35

realize like, we probably didn't have a chance to go

7:37

to the super Bowl that year.

7:38

Right, And then you have that off season,

7:40

which I think is a very sort of important

7:42

offseason. Ye kind of

7:44

springboards the second run of the Dynasty.

7:47

You get Devine, you get

7:49

Gronk, you get Adan Hernandez. Did

7:51

you sort of sense like, wow, we're going to be a lot

7:53

better you sort of get into training

7:56

camp in twenty ten.

7:57

I think what I realized, you know, going into my second

7:59

year is a is like, wow, we added these two

8:01

tight ends. You add Devin who

8:04

you know clearly was a great player run off the

8:06

batom, he's returning kickoffs for touchdowns.

8:08

You know, a first round pick like you

8:10

added, and those are you know, I'm just

8:13

as young as them. So it's kind of like, wow, we got like some

8:15

really good players. We had Chung the year that I came.

8:17

Yep, Julian was coming, you know, kind of

8:20

creating his way. And I

8:23

mean, look, I whether it was night

8:26

being naive or I thought I

8:28

was on the greatest team with the greatest quarterback

8:30

and the greatest coach, I'm like you were, and

8:32

I was you were looking back. I understand

8:35

like you guys say, you're spoiled, But there was kind

8:37

of a lull in the action and having watching the

8:39

Dynasty myself, you know, I didn't do a

8:41

ton of research on the Patriots like what was

8:44

before I came, But it was kind of cool for

8:46

me to see like what happened, you

8:48

know, prior to when I was here, and

8:50

then kind of see the years that I was here, my

8:52

first stint and then it kind of ends

8:54

with my second stint here as kind of the end

8:56

of that show. But it was kind of cool to see

8:59

some of the stuff that I didn't experience, to see

9:01

you know, tie log and interviewed and kind of making

9:03

fun of Tom and and you know, see these

9:05

guys and like NuGen and stuff, and

9:08

and so for me that was kind of cool to kind

9:10

of see the part that I didn't really live right.

9:12

You were fourteen and two your second year, Tom was the

9:14

MVP. The backup

9:16

quarterback's job is to always be ready because

9:18

you're one snap away, one play away. And

9:21

I assume, but I want to ask you you prepared

9:24

as such? I need to be I need to be ready

9:26

to go. Was there ever anything in your mind?

9:28

And I understand he's coming off major surgery, need

9:30

reconstruction. Was there every time

9:32

you go? This guy's not missing any snaps? You

9:36

know what, They're gonna have to drag like the bone's

9:38

gonna have to be visible in

9:41

order for me to get in unless there's a blog because he's

9:43

not missing snaps.

9:44

Yeah, there was a There was a game my rookie

9:47

year down in Miami and

9:49

on Friday, probably I'll never forget this. On Friday

9:52

practice, we're

9:54

kind of just we're winding down like there might be

9:56

one offensive period left in practice,

9:58

and Isaiah Standback was playing

10:01

scout team gunner and he's coming down

10:03

the sideline and he was a kind of a quarterback slash

10:05

receiver and Tom's kind of

10:07

messing around, goes to grab him. His finger gets

10:09

caught in his jersey and he breaks his middle finger

10:11

on Friday with one period to go in

10:14

practice, and I'm like, oh God, like, I'm

10:16

gonna play this. I'm gonna I haven't practiced

10:18

all week.

10:19

This is just throw.

10:20

This is throwing him, and I'm

10:22

gonna have to play in this game. He broke his middle

10:24

finger and so of course

10:26

he goes and he sees Alex, and Alex is working

10:28

his magic and and he gets

10:31

a I'm pretty sure he got like a

10:32

a block, you know, like a

10:35

injection to block so he wouldn't feel it.

10:38

He's like, if I don't feel it, my body will just naturally

10:40

do what it does. And he throws

10:42

for like three hundred and forty yards and

10:45

I was like everyone knew

10:47

because he had to be added to the injurroom

10:49

sure, and people are like, oh, what is it? What? His middle

10:51

finger was broken? Right, And as

10:54

a rookie like, I'm you know, I'm nervous because

10:56

I haven't. It'd be one thing if you get a whole week of

10:58

practice and you know you're gonna play. It's literally

11:01

like I got like the last drive of practice on Friday,

11:04

and then it was like a constant monitoring process

11:06

of like where's he at? Where's he at? And we'd be doing I

11:08

was at BC the other day with Bill O'Brien watching practice

11:11

and we were talking about this story. I'm like, he's

11:13

like, remember we were going over to call sheet and Alex is

11:15

just like working on his finger, working on his finger. And I

11:17

mean that was the point I realized, like, this guy

11:20

is. I mean, for all we know about him

11:22

as a great player, the toughness

11:24

factor, I mean, the things that you saw

11:26

that I saw him play through and the toughness

11:28

was I mean, it's incredible. You could do a whole

11:30

documentary on that.

11:31

Well, talk about like Paul saying, what were

11:33

spoiled?

11:34

I think one of the things that we,

11:38

you know, loosely associated with the organization and

11:40

fans take for granted is

11:42

it's the line about availability, right, you

11:44

know, and you know better

11:46

than anybody, you know, if you're available

11:49

to play, you play. If you can't, you're

11:51

sort of discarded. Yeah, and you're out of sight,

11:53

out of mind. And I think the fact that

11:55

he told the line every

11:58

single week, regardless of what's going on. Great

12:00

player and everything like that, But I think that

12:02

that gets overlooked a lot of times when you talk about

12:04

him.

12:05

Yeah, he stepped up. He was there, ready to

12:07

go.

12:07

In all the years that I backed him up, I never had

12:09

to enter a game for his injury, which I mean,

12:11

that's amazing. I've had to do it multiple times other

12:13

places, oddly enough for two other Patriots

12:16

guys, Jacoby and Jimmy this past year.

12:18

But in all the years that I backed him

12:20

up, all the big hits that I saw,

12:22

I remember, I remember him taking a hit my rookie

12:24

year or second year by Elvis Dumerville.

12:27

There's a great clip where he's exactly and I'm

12:29

like, my chinstr I mean, he got

12:31

up, and you know, he talks about it. He's like, I took

12:33

pride in showing people that they weren't going to hurt me. And

12:36

I mean, you go to the

12:38

AFC Championship game in twenty seventeen

12:40

when his thumb gets all, you know, messed up. I'm

12:43

like, I'm playing this game. There's no way. I

12:45

just saw like his hands split open. There's

12:47

no way he's playing. And sure enough

12:49

he you know, he wears his red gloves out there and

12:52

we kind of messed with the media a little bit, but you

12:54

know, he through the work and commitments

12:56

he had to play. He played,

12:59

you know.

13:00

But you mentioned it, so let's

13:02

bring that up right there at that point in time

13:04

that was Was that Wednesday of the week or Thursday

13:06

of the week, was it?

13:07

I mean it was Wednesday because I end up

13:09

practicing all day Thursday Friday.

13:11

You're talking about not getting any reps. You had

13:14

reps at least mentally at that point time. You

13:16

wouldn't have been surprised if if Josh comes

13:18

up to and goes by the way you're up.

13:20

I fully expected to play until

13:22

I would say Sunday morning, you

13:25

know. And that was the I had just gotten back

13:27

like seven weeks prior to that, you know. And

13:30

I remember thinking to myself, well, you were the starting quarterback

13:32

in San Francisco at the beginning the year. This is where you wanted

13:34

to be. You're a starting quarterback in the NFL, Like

13:36

this was your goal anyway. So and

13:39

I'll never forget like that happening,

13:42

and everybody kind of just standing around, and

13:44

i''m like, all right, come on, like we gotta we

13:46

gotta move on, like we got to I gotta practice.

13:48

And I was the only quarterback, so I had to do every rep

13:50

on offense and every rep on scout team the remainder

13:53

of the week, and you know, I

13:55

just remember having so much confidence in the guys around

13:57

me that I was like, I feel good, I

13:59

know, plan really well, and I'll

14:02

be ready to go if need be. But sure

14:04

enough, Sunday morning rolls around and he

14:07

puts some you know, Canisio tape on it, and

14:09

I think the biggest thing was could he take a snap?

14:12

And once he figured out that, he was going to, you know,

14:14

power through that. I mean, some of the

14:16

plays he made in that game were incredible. How winning

14:19

the one to Amandola down the middle of the field.

14:21

I mean to throw that with the injury

14:23

that he had in his thumb, I don't even know how you

14:25

physically do that.

14:26

How about the game winner on the back of the line

14:28

that there's only one place to balkns right,

14:30

So in that situation, Brian, like, at

14:33

that point time you've seen him do all these different

14:35

things.

14:35

The Miami gave me a rookie year.

14:37

Are you beyond to mazed at that point or he just goes,

14:39

oh yeah, yeah, that's Tom.

14:40

I mean, there was there was really three times

14:43

in my career where I felt like that was going to

14:45

be the case. So we talked about the two and then the one.

14:48

I think it was in twenty eighteen after we lost

14:50

to Tennessee. He hurt his knee at the end of that game,

14:53

and I didn't really know the extent. It

14:55

was the week of Thanksgiving, and I think we had like a longer

14:57

for whatever reason, we had Thanksgiving off, but we practiced

14:59

on Wednesday, and he practiced the whole

15:01

day Wednesday, and so I'm like, all right,

15:04

he's good. And then I'll never forget,

15:06

like cooking my turkey outside.

15:08

I had like a big green egg. I'm smoking the turkey for the

15:10

first time. He calls me like, hey, babe, I

15:12

don't think I'm gona able to I don't think I'm gonna

15:14

be able to place on him. Like what are you talking about. You just practiced

15:17

the whole day. He's like, yeah, this

15:19

nee really like swoll up on me. And you

15:21

know, I'm gonna see what Alex can do. But you know, he's

15:24

like it just he's like I'm as a friend,

15:26

like I'm just telling you be ready to go.

15:27

It's interesting.

15:28

So I remember being like, all right, where's the playbook?

15:30

Like we got to put the extra time in and

15:33

that was a Sunday morning where me, Josh

15:36

and Bill are all waiting for Tom to come down to be

15:38

like are you are you gonna go?

15:39

What is it?

15:39

And in my in my mind, I'm

15:42

like, if he's walking down

15:44

here, he's gonna say I'm gonna play. But it's

15:46

just there was really three times in my career

15:48

where I was like, all right, you're probably gonna

15:50

have to play, and then sure enough, you know, it came

15:52

to the time for him to play, and he was good to go.

15:54

Do you have up the turkey?

15:56

It got a probably a little overcooked.

16:00

Oh oh yeah, A look,

16:03

so how about some of the times that you did

16:05

you did get to play some of the memories of that. Do you remember

16:08

the first game? I mean, I'm sure you do. Yeah, first time

16:10

you got in.

16:11

Well, that was the snow game in October against

16:13

you know, the Titans, which they had the

16:15

oilers uniforms. I mean, that was

16:17

one that was one of the great UNI games of all time. Yeah,

16:20

and I had just gotten engaged to my wife

16:22

that week and my birthday. It was a few weeks.

16:24

It was a great October was a great month my rookie

16:26

year, and you know, so we were killing

16:28

those guys and I got to go in and

16:30

it was in the snow. And you know that's

16:33

for me growing up in the in the north,

16:35

like in Cleveland, when it snowed, you went outside

16:37

to play football in the backyard because you can get tackled,

16:39

it's not going to hurt. And so to me, that was

16:42

kind of like the welcome to the NFL moment,

16:44

Like here I am, I'm playing a game, it's snowing.

16:46

I scored a touchdown on a quarterback sneak and

16:50

you know, so I'll never forget that. And then really, the

16:53

next time I really played like an extending amount

16:55

of time was the following year. I think it was the last game

16:57

the year against Miami, who touchdown past

16:59

Brandon Tate there you go, yeah, and got crushed.

17:01

It was it was I got crushed on the play.

17:04

They actually called it rough in the passer play, but

17:07

I was kind of happy. My first touchdown was like a bomb,

17:10

you know what I mean?

17:10

Do you show that one to your kids to say, hey, hey, why don't

17:12

you look at dad stay in the pocket here and get

17:16

his.

17:16

Head kicked in the touchdown pass.

17:18

That was one of the routes that we called the pistol route

17:20

that they talked about in The Dynasty with Randy.

17:23

When Randy came, he's like, listen, I'm just gonna go

17:25

where the open places. And so, you

17:27

know, I got to go in and they call a pistol route, and it's like you can

17:29

go either way and you're only supposed to

17:31

make like one cut and then go the opposite.

17:34

And Brandon's like boom boom. So I'm like and

17:36

then finally I see which way he's going, and I just I launched

17:38

it. And you know, that was a pretty good feeling

17:41

to throw, you know, fifty yard touchdown pass for your

17:43

first touchdown pass.

17:45

In eleven I

17:47

think you attempted one pass.

17:48

Yeah, it was Gronk's record.

17:50

What's the go So let's let the fans know about

17:52

what destroy because I don't I don't necessarily

17:55

remember that. Maybe that's just because I'm old and the

17:57

passage of time.

17:58

Yeah, but I don't have to go with the CT no.

18:00

No.

18:00

But but like that was a

18:02

at the time, that was a big deal.

18:03

Yeah, so it was that was the last game

18:05

of the season. It was Gronk and Jimmy

18:08

Graham. I think we're kind of battling

18:10

like for the yardage record right for

18:12

tight ends for a season, I think, and

18:14

they were kind of going back and forth and their

18:17

game ended, and and I think we realized

18:19

on the sideline that Jimmy Graham had like four yards

18:21

more than Rob. So we go

18:23

in and I just so

18:27

I remember going in, we were just gonna run the clock out,

18:29

and then Bill Grass me He's like, look, Kronk

18:31

needs like five yards to

18:33

break the records. So like we'll just put him outside

18:36

and throw a hitch. Well, like a hitch

18:38

is like a five six yard route. Catch the ball,

18:41

but we have a conversion if they press you.

18:43

So like if the guy comes up and pressed, you really can't

18:45

run a hitch. So he runs a fade

18:47

and and to be honestly, I kind of forgot that because I

18:49

was like, all right, I'm gonna take three step drop, I'm gonna throw

18:52

a five yard hitch. I don't even know if I looked out there

18:54

and I dropped back and I'm like, oh my god, he's running

18:56

a go route. And so I remember lofting

18:58

the ball up to him. He gets the record,

19:01

and then it was kind of questionable whether his feet

19:03

were inbound so we had to run like a quick play to make

19:05

sure that it's it's sat. So that

19:08

was a pretty cool memory too.

19:09

I love those kinds of things, though, because they're always

19:12

telling us like, oh, that's

19:14

a great well that game.

19:15

You know, that game was in the bag, and I think that mental

19:17

he obviously Rob, but also to Bill,

19:20

like, that's a huge record to break, and

19:22

Rob will always joke you know, I threw

19:25

him that pass to break that record, but I also threw

19:27

him his first touchdown pass, although it was in a preseason

19:29

game in Atlanta that year, remember,

19:31

so yeah, you know he yeah,

19:33

that's pretty impressive. Yeah, yeah, I do.

19:36

Remember, because I mean, like I

19:38

can only imagine what you guys thought on the

19:40

field. Talked about this a little

19:42

bits. No, no,

19:44

but no, but the fact, like all

19:46

of a sudden, these new weapons come in, we've

19:48

got to revitalize the offense.

19:50

We need to do more.

19:51

I mean, you guys must have like, oh,

19:53

my goodness, they're rookies, they're green and everything

19:56

like that. But the ability to see what

19:58

these guys could do in the field, yeah, was certainly

20:00

eye open.

20:00

Funny.

20:01

I do remember Bronk dragging some guys

20:03

against the Rams I think, yeah, that was here yep

20:06

into the end, and I remember thinking that kind of stuff.

20:08

I don't remember.

20:09

I think we all I think we all noticed. I think we

20:11

all realized like, oh my god, these

20:13

guys. I mean, he had never really

20:16

seen a pair like this before. And

20:18

I think Tom realized it early. And I know Rob

20:20

jokes like he thought Tom hated him. But Tom.

20:24

Tom would have those guys stay after practice and

20:27

we would throw to him, and we would have Dane

20:29

Fletcher I don't know if you guys really and

20:31

like, hey, Dane, can you come cover these guys because we

20:33

only just want to throw routes on air, I mean, and

20:35

we'd be like, all right, Dane, play uh play

20:37

cover five, which is like inside leverage two

20:39

man, and then we just run outbreaking routes to teach

20:42

them like when you get this coverage, you got to win your

20:44

leverage, and and so poor, you know, Dane was

20:46

like a little puppy dog. He'd be like, all right, we want to cover again,

20:48

and he'd be covering both guys back to back.

20:51

But you know, those were you know moments

20:53

where I looked at like Tom was building chemistry

20:55

with these young guys. And then the season

20:57

rolled around. In it, I think it showed like, I

21:00

don't think anybody in the league expected, you

21:02

know, this matchup nightmare

21:05

because the reality was and looking

21:07

back, I know more now, but as a second

21:09

year player, you don't understand like the

21:12

matchups that it created on teams.

21:14

It was, you know, usually you put two tight ends in a

21:16

game, the defense is gonna

21:18

put three linebackers in the game and four

21:20

dbs. Well, once they realized

21:22

we were thrown with these guys. Now they're putting two

21:25

linebackers in the game and five dbs, and

21:27

we were like, well, screw it. If they do that, we're just gonna

21:29

run the ball because both of them were great blockers.

21:32

And it was this constant mismatch

21:34

like, okay, we put that. We called it Detroit personnel.

21:37

Two tight ends, two receivers, and a half

21:39

back. You put that person on the field and you

21:41

just wait to see what the defense does. All right,

21:43

did they put regular defense, which is like

21:45

the four down lineman, the three linebackers

21:47

and the four dbs. All right, well, now we're gonna

21:49

spread them out. We're gonna throw it because one of those

21:52

linebackers is gonna have to cover one of these

21:54

tight ends, and so we'd put you know, Rob

21:56

on these seam routes, Aaron would be on these little routes

21:59

underneath, and it became a mismatched

22:01

nightmare. And then immediately when they would sub

22:03

in the nickel defense, they take a linebacker

22:05

out. Now we would just put them down and run

22:08

we called outside zone, you know, with

22:10

the full back slash tight end blocking

22:13

the extra linebacker which is now a dB,

22:15

and they would just block till the cows came home.

22:18

And I think that was the unique part of

22:20

it was they were both great pass catchers, but

22:22

they both could block, I mean, just as

22:24

well as you know, any other tight end

22:26

in the league.

22:27

Paul, you've historically

22:29

always talked about the games that the Patriot

22:31

should win that they weren't in. But one of the great what

22:33

ifs that I don't think it's a lot of attention here

22:35

in New England is on that eleven

22:38

team, what if Gronkowski

22:40

doesn't get hurt in the AFC Championship game. You

22:42

know, look, I'm surprised because I don't

22:44

think that was no disrespect to great Patriots

22:46

team, which stunned that they were actually

22:48

favored against the Giants.

22:50

Who beat you in.

22:51

Foxborough that year. But a

22:53

healthy Gronk, with a healthy

22:55

Welker and a healthy Hernandez

22:58

that that game was so close

23:00

that a healthy Gronk I think, don't you think?

23:03

Yeah?

23:03

I totally do. And to

23:05

you a point, like all the stuff that Brian's talking

23:07

about offensively was why

23:09

that team was in the correct The Super Bowl was one

23:12

of the weaker Patriots defenses,

23:14

Yes, certainly of any of the Super Bowl era,

23:16

right, And you

23:19

have to think if if you have Gronk and it took the

23:21

Giants a little while to figure out

23:24

he wasn't himself, right, you know? I think you even

23:26

hear that in one of the one of the micd ups.

23:28

You know, he's just a decoy out there. If

23:31

Rob is healthy, you know, how does that? How how

23:33

different does that?

23:34

I mean I look at Rob as clearly

23:36

you know, to me, having played with them, maybe

23:38

I'm a little biased, but the greatest tight end of all

23:40

time, not only because of his size, speed

23:44

and when you think of tight end's ability to run routes

23:46

and catch, but because he was such a great blocker.

23:49

The teams had to honor that. And I think

23:51

that's what made him so dynamic was you

23:53

know, we look at Travis Kelcey today, phenomenal

23:56

tight end, but clearly Travis isn't blocking anything.

23:59

Rob would blow like he was the right tackle,

24:02

and so that allowed you to do so many

24:04

things that you could put eleven

24:06

personnel in the game. But really it was like, you

24:09

know, and eleven personnel is one tight end

24:11

through receivers and a half back, but

24:13

really you're still kind of in you

24:15

know, a full back mentality,

24:17

tight end mentality blocking and you could run

24:20

which a lot of back then, a lot of teams weren't running the ball

24:22

from those formations. And so Rob,

24:25

I mean really changed the game in that matter

24:27

because he was aligneman who

24:29

was the premier pass catcher at the same

24:31

time. So you know, him being healthy

24:33

in that game and being able to threaten

24:36

their defense with the vertical passing game, you

24:38

know, probably would have helped. I

24:40

never liked to look back and say what if, because there's

24:43

you know, so many plays in a game, so many players playing,

24:45

but Rob obviously was you know, a

24:48

critical part of that team. Question.

24:49

So you go to Cleveland in twelve,

24:52

right, yep, thirteen, Uh, okay,

24:54

yep. At

24:56

some point time as you're apprenticing

24:58

under Tom. You're learning all this, it's

25:00

got to be in your mind. It's time for me

25:02

to see if I can start. Sure here gets your

25:04

opportunity to do that. We're talking about

25:06

what is and should have and stuff like that, as far as we'll h

25:10

in that Super Bowl?

25:12

Do you think at all about what is and should is?

25:14

You guys are rolling a.

25:15

Little bit before the Pittsburgh game. Yep, you

25:17

know, does that one come? You know, if

25:19

I don't get hurt?

25:20

Ye, I wonder if Yeah, that's

25:22

that's probably when I look back at my career

25:25

and even more so being a Cleveland kid

25:28

who grew up and getting

25:30

finally a chance, you know, like you said, back

25:32

up Tom for three years, go to a

25:34

super Bowl, don't win the Super Bowl, you know, get

25:36

released the next year, out of football for ten weeks, and

25:39

then now here I am on my hometown

25:41

team, get a chance to start, win

25:43

two games. There's a night game, big

25:45

game, you know, there's a lot of hype and tear

25:48

my aco. I think that's probably if I

25:50

look at back at like if I could say, there's one

25:52

huge what if? Now, granted I end

25:55

up rehabiting and coming back and being the starter again

25:57

there the next year, but you know, you just Tomember

25:59

like our coaches got fired after that year because we didn't

26:01

win another game. And you

26:04

know, so for me, that's probably like when

26:06

I look back, like you know, we talk

26:08

about like branch realities and multiverse

26:11

and all that stuff, like maybe somewhere in some you

26:13

know reality, I didn't get hurt and ended

26:15

up staying there and maybe don't go to nine

26:17

different teams. But you

26:20

know, if everything works out for a reason, if I was still

26:22

playing there, then I went and came back here in seventeen and

26:25

won a Super Bowl.

26:25

So what do you consider

26:28

your best season?

26:30

Oddly enough of me playing you

26:33

know, when statistically looking, you probably look at Houston

26:35

as my best year. It was that I only

26:38

ended up playing like nine full games due to injury

26:40

and actually.

26:40

Getting benched nineteen touchdowns.

26:42

Yeah, and so that was great. But I look at the stretch

26:44

I had in Chicago, and that

26:47

was with a guy offensive coordinator,

26:49

Dallala Loggins, who had a little influence

26:51

from this tree, the Patriots tree,

26:53

but also he was with me in Cleveland with Kyle Shannan,

26:56

and he kind of melded those two systems together.

26:58

And I think I had four or five games in a row three hundred

27:01

yards passing at least two touchdowns in every game.

27:03

And then of course again of what if break

27:05

break my forum on a Thursday night game. Those those

27:07

Thursday night games weren't very very.

27:10

There's no injury problem here,

27:13

We're going to change the kickoff, Matt.

27:15

So you know, that was probably my best

27:18

stretch, I think statistically, you know,

27:20

Houston was a crazy year because I start

27:23

Week one and then somehow

27:25

after, you know, battling for the job on

27:28

hard knocks, you know, I get bench for a Ryan

27:30

Mallet and then it doesn't work

27:32

out with him. I come back in, we go to the playoffs,

27:34

and then self admittedly play like the worst

27:36

game in my entire athletic career, going

27:38

back to like first grade. You know, it was just

27:40

one of those days things weren't working and

27:42

then that was it. And I think that's

27:45

the reality of like a guy like me in the NFL.

27:47

You come in undrafted, you don't have a lot

27:49

of hype behind you, and anytime you

27:51

falter, they're like, well that's why, that's why.

27:53

And so I'm thankful that I was able to have

27:55

the career I have. But you know, if you're

27:57

a first round pick, you're gonna get multip

28:00

opportunities because that's why you were a first

28:02

round pick. So I mean, that's just the way the

28:04

cookie crumbles and you learn how to work

28:06

the business side of it. But yeah,

28:08

probably Houston was probably my best year, which that

28:11

was reuniting with Bill O'Brien in this system

28:13

and knowing you know, kind of that.

28:15

Brian you talk about you talked earlier about

28:18

parent your son's in seventh grade,

28:21

you know, maybe has a little bit more of a realization

28:24

about what it was that you were doing, what you were going

28:26

through, just from a parenting and a

28:28

teaching standpoint. The fact that you

28:30

were in Pittsburgh, Arizona,

28:33

San Francisco, Chicago, three

28:36

tours with New England, Like, is

28:38

that a good teachable moment for your kids? Like, who

28:40

knows what they're gonna do. But you know what got'd

28:42

be resilient in life, babe.

28:43

Yeah, I know. That's the thing. Is what I try to relate to

28:45

them is you know, you

28:49

said resiliency,

28:51

you know, dealing with adversity and

28:54

look, I know I'm talking about playing in the NFL. I

28:56

know that people have a lot of different, you know, things

28:58

that.

28:58

They deal with, but those are Mary Pratz.

29:00

Right, those are yeah, but my kids, I mean they've lived

29:02

in the military, right, so

29:06

but I think, you know, it teaches you that, you

29:08

know, things aren't always going to go your way in life, and

29:10

you have to figure out how to you know, work

29:12

your way through those times. And you

29:14

know, I was always grateful that I always had

29:16

the opportunity to come back here because after

29:19

being in all those places, I craved the culture

29:21

of New England. I craved the tough

29:24

we're gonna make We're gonna do everything we can to win. And

29:27

sure were there days that were miserable that we

29:29

all kind of came in after practice

29:31

and was like like I don't want to go to this meeting. Yeah,

29:33

but I also after being on teams that

29:36

you know, it was fun on Wednesday, it was fun on Thursday,

29:38

it was fun on Friday. But Sunday rolled around and

29:41

you got your butt kicked. Like I was

29:43

thankful to come back to this culture and be around

29:45

guys that you know, I kind of started

29:48

my career with and now they had become like the leaders

29:50

of the team, like the mccordy's obviously

29:52

Tom was still here, but you know, Julian high

29:55

Tower, you know, guys like that, David

29:57

Andrews, you know the guys who you

29:59

know they got it and it was I

30:02

was excited to be back. So you know, you never

30:04

know what path you're going to take. And you

30:06

know, everyone always jokes like success is kind of like always

30:09

upward. It's it's up and it's down, and you

30:11

know, so just like my career, there's highs and lows,

30:13

and you know, I wouldn't change a thing I think

30:15

along the way. I always tell my agent this, like, you

30:18

know, at every fork in the road, I always felt like we made

30:20

the right decision.

30:21

That's great. I hope I am not screwing

30:23

this up. One more kid question.

30:26

When you were traded back here was

30:28

that Halloween?

30:29

It was Halloween night. I remember being there.

30:31

You got this isn't I mean we want

30:33

to talk about we're dad's you know, you

30:35

remember going out trick or treating with your kids.

30:38

Okay, he's in the NFL.

30:39

It's a little bit different, but at the end of the day, still

30:41

a dad. You're traded back to

30:43

Hey, we're going back to New England.

30:44

This is great.

30:45

Tell us a story. So I remember

30:47

leaving the facilities

30:50

in San Francisco that day and I was like, all right, see

30:52

tomorrow, Kyle, see tomorrow. And

30:55

I think might have been the day before Halloween because we had to go

30:57

get the costume. And so I got home, took my

31:00

son to like the Spear Halloween store, get

31:02

his costume, get to the checkout line, get to the

31:04

car, and Kyle calls me back

31:06

and he's like, Hey, we're

31:09

going to trade you back to New England. And I was like

31:11

what He's like, Yeah, they offered

31:14

to trade us Jimmy, and as part of the deal,

31:16

like they need a backup quarterback, so like,

31:19

you know, we're going to trade you back to New England. And

31:21

I just remember being in shock because you

31:24

know, I thought i'd seen it all at that point, but I'd never been

31:26

a part of a trade. And the

31:29

way it worked out, it wasn't like they

31:31

agreed to release me and I could sign here and because

31:33

of comp picks and things like that. But I

31:35

remember having to like go home and like break that to my

31:38

wife because we had moved,

31:40

but we had never moved in the middle of this season, and

31:42

I was like, all right, so I'm gonna have to go to New England

31:45

on Tuesday night. And then I remember

31:47

it was the bye week here, so I practiced, stayed

31:49

an extra day, met with Jerry Schaplinski, who was the quarterback

31:51

coach, met with Josh a little bit. All the players went to

31:54

their you know whatever they were doing for the bye week.

31:56

I flew back to California. We

31:58

got the biggest suitcase I because, by the way,

32:01

Bill's like, hey, we're playing in Mexico City in two

32:03

weeks, so I hope you have a passport,

32:05

and did you? Yeah? I did, And

32:07

so I packed as much stuff as I could, took

32:10

the red Is on Saturday night, came home or

32:12

came here Sunday, landed Sunday morning,

32:14

went and saw three different houses, picked

32:16

one went to her to school and being

32:18

the school that my kids still go to this day. And

32:22

you know, it was a whirlwind, you know week. But that's

32:24

I mean, look, like I said, I know that we're

32:26

privileged. This is the NFL, so not

32:29

comparing it to other people's situations, but that was

32:31

a week that took a huge toll in my family and

32:33

my wife and and you know, I couldn't

32:35

have done the career that I

32:37

had without her and her support. And thankfully

32:40

we were you know, we met when we were in high school, so we

32:42

had a strong foundation and and you

32:44

know, but in a way it made our kids, you

32:47

know, kind of mature and deal. And so

32:50

my son we went out to Vegas last year and he goes to

32:52

baseball practice with a bunch of kids that he doesn't know, and

32:54

by the end they're all laughing and he's he's immediately

32:56

so he knows how to adapt. And so there's positives

32:59

and negatives to all sides of it.

33:01

Did you get to trick or treat?

33:02

No? No, Well, I remember being

33:05

like waiting for the deal to be worked out and Bill

33:07

calls me. He's like, look, are are you gonna get here or what.

33:09

I'm like, Bill, I'm just waiting for like the airline ticket.

33:12

I got a bagpock in my car. I was at

33:14

the kids like Halloween party at school, and

33:16

I'm like, I'm just waiting for like the ticket.

33:20

That's so I'm not going to ask you the question

33:22

about the Eagles Super Bowl in

33:25

seventeen.

33:26

We'll gloss over that not only anyone knows anyways.

33:28

Okay, So in twenty eighteen.

33:30

Obviously you're part of your

33:32

championship season. For you,

33:35

I want to go before that to the Kansas

33:38

City game in the AFC Championship game

33:40

and just what it was like because for Matt and I,

33:43

you know, again there's you know, that same

33:46

theme of us being around. Sure, we've both been

33:48

around for all of these Super Bowls, so we've gotten a

33:50

chance. That one stands out for us.

33:52

That Kansas City AFC Championship game was one

33:54

of the greatest games that I've seen,

33:56

and I just want to know what it was like from your perspective

33:59

watching that overtime drive.

34:01

Yeah, I mean me, I think that's my favorite

34:03

game as a Patriot ever. Love to hear that

34:05

because in a way, looking

34:08

back, that really was the Super Bowl in my

34:10

in my opinion, I know, we had to go the

34:13

next week and beat the Rams, and the defense played

34:15

an incredible game, but to go into

34:17

Kansas City, it's like, you know, minus

34:19

five degrees, no one's given us

34:21

a chance to win. And the

34:23

effort that everybody put in that week

34:25

to that game to then get, like you said,

34:28

get to this overtime win, I think,

34:30

and you see it on our faces running on the field

34:32

I think it was kind of a true, like we're

34:35

getting goosebumps talking about it, like a true like us

34:37

against the world moment. No one was there to

34:40

support us other than the guys on that sideline.

34:42

No one in this everyone in the stands, you know, wanted

34:44

us to lose. Really, everybody kind of wanted this

34:47

changing of the guard. Here's Mahomes, you

34:49

know they're going to beat the Patriots, and it

34:51

was kind of like against all odds type thing, and

34:54

so fittingly comes down to this two minute drive

34:56

where here's Tom and the famous

34:59

you know Julian quote or too old at

35:01

his age, and you know, methodically

35:04

drives us down and win with a touchdown.

35:06

I mean, it's to

35:08

me, it was like the ultimate team

35:11

win. And when I always think of my

35:13

time with the Patriots, it was always the best teams

35:15

that I've been on. And I'm not just saying because we

35:17

were the most talented or had the best coaching

35:19

staff. I'm talking about the group of men that were

35:21

in the room, and

35:24

we were so close knit as a team. And

35:26

like I said, I think you see that when you see on the field, and I think

35:29

it's I'm right behind Kyle Van noy and Tom's

35:31

jumping into Kyle's arms, and it was like it

35:33

was like this moment, like this is this

35:35

is we have to go win the next week because

35:38

this game was so important

35:40

and so critical to that and

35:42

the belief that it gave I think everybody

35:45

in that team and.

35:46

Look fortunately for the rules

35:48

and everything like that coin toss.

35:50

You win, you know you're getting the ball

35:53

as you're sitting there and you're seeing you know, the

35:55

personnel, everything like that, Is there any doubt

35:57

in your mind? You guys are going down and scoring At that point

35:59

in time.

36:00

It was kind of like a member. It was kind of like a back

36:02

and forth. You were just hoping you got

36:05

the ball. And I think at that point it

36:07

was like the thing that always I

36:09

always looked back was they I couldn't imagine.

36:11

I couldn't believe that they couldn't cover Julian because

36:13

really we ran the same play from both sides and

36:15

we had this little motion and kind of and you

36:18

were like when they when he hit those two plays, You're like,

36:20

man, we're in the driver's seat. We just

36:22

got to go and not make any mistakes. And you

36:24

know, we had I think we had running

36:26

with Rex ye, a touchdown.

36:28

So but three third and tens.

36:30

Right, and you

36:32

know, it was a play called China, and it meant

36:34

like a shoot and an inn the

36:36

ch for shooting and in and and I'm

36:39

like, all right, well it worked once and usually

36:42

sometimes as a quarterback you kind of like get

36:44

to the point where like, all right, we just ran that play like there's

36:46

no way it's going to work again. And

36:48

you know that was just Tom basically, you

36:51

know, dropping back seeing the coverage and here

36:53

comes Julian. You know, several times I

36:55

think, I don't know if Hogan had a great catch on that

36:57

drive, but had right

37:00

regulation, Yeah, it was kind of a similar play.

37:02

But clearly, you know, this is the greatness

37:04

of Tom and Josh and all those guys working together.

37:07

They were having trouble cover in the middle of the field

37:09

and so just continue to expose it until

37:12

they fix it. And you know, they didn't fix it

37:14

in time, and luckily for us, you know, I

37:16

was able to take us down and win that

37:18

game.

37:19

So Paul brings up and I think

37:21

a lot of Patriot fans would agree, spoiled,

37:24

Yes, first world problems. What's

37:26

the best game? Interesting to hear that you say

37:28

that, but you got to go when you got to beat the Rams in

37:31

Atlanta, And I'm

37:33

not sure that fans quite know

37:36

the role that you played that week

37:38

and your experience with McVeigh

37:41

and that system. Talk a little bit about

37:43

what how you saw your role that week

37:45

as getting ready to.

37:46

Play the Rams.

37:47

Yeah, I mean as a backup quarterback, you always

37:49

prepare to play. We talked about that earlier,

37:51

but the reality is, like, you know, Tom's

37:53

healthy. I mean, could something happen in the game, yes, But

37:55

you know, for me, I always think like how can I

37:58

you know, especially at this this,

38:00

you know, the last game of the year

38:02

of the Super Bowl, Like what am I going to do to contribute to

38:04

the team to help them win? And because

38:07

I was a veteran guy as a backup and

38:09

had played in a lot of places, I always had great conversations

38:12

with Devin and Jason and high Tower

38:14

and Gilmore, And you know, when I would

38:16

we would play a team that maybe it was a system

38:18

that I was in and I'm running the scout team,

38:21

I'm like, hey, listen, this is how they're teaching these quarterbacks,

38:23

this is what they're looking at. And I'll never

38:25

forget, like get into the hotel in Atlanta,

38:28

and you know, you practice a week before you travel, and

38:30

I'm like, all right, some of these plays are similar to what I

38:32

ran with Kyle, who obviously influenced

38:34

Sean. And I

38:36

remember, you know, being in the hotel room. I'm

38:38

like, because you have to have an off day, even though

38:41

you're traveling there for the super Bowl, it's an off day and

38:43

you know your family's not there yet, and so you kind of hunkered

38:45

down in the hotel. And I

38:47

saw a thing on like Yahoo. It's like here's

38:50

and it's like kind of they did like a hard Knock show,

38:52

but it was on Amazon. And here's like some clips

38:54

from the year that the Rams did,

38:57

you know, miked up and and I'm listening

38:59

to like the play call that they have on

39:01

these clips from training camp, and I'm like, well,

39:03

I know that play. I run that play before.

39:05

And as the week went on, I kept

39:07

watching more and more of their film and being like, I know the

39:10

offense that they're gonna run and having meetings

39:12

with Bill and Map and was Matt

39:14

still.

39:14

There or was it flow this flow yeah.

39:16

And being like listen, I know, you know,

39:19

they don't really have an answer for this they don't really

39:21

have. You know, if you bring this pressure,

39:23

you know, they have to throw hot things like that,

39:26

and you know, so I took a lot of pride

39:28

in that. And one of the like my prodest moments

39:30

was after the Super Bowl Devin and Jason kind of talking

39:32

that to the media and being like we were on

39:35

it. We we had a great feeling because Brian

39:37

gave us a great look. He sat there and talked about,

39:39

you know, their their offensive system, and you

39:41

know, that was a way for me to feel like I actually contributed

39:44

in some way because I never stepped on the field, but

39:46

you know, you got to do whatever you can to help

39:49

the team win. So, you know, something

39:51

that I was proud of and fortunate of having

39:53

been in those systems. I could relate that to those

39:55

guys.

39:56

So when you show your kids your Super Bowl ring, yeah,

39:58

any kid goes, oh, that's a nice RNK deb But you didn't play.

40:00

Well, hold on for a second, you're right, I

40:02

didn't play.

40:03

That's the one I came up with a defensive game plan.

40:05

However, however, and like

40:08

that's that's the power of team, right,

40:10

isn't it.

40:11

Yeah, And that's what I would always say about the Patriots. We

40:13

always had the best team. And I'm

40:15

talking about the relationships closeness.

40:19

There's nothing ever been comparable to

40:21

the locker room that I had, especially as

40:24

I got older. I mean it was great as a young guy, but

40:26

as an older player, you appreciated

40:28

even more. And you know,

40:31

they did a great job. In seventeen eighteen

40:33

nineteen, we did these things in the offseason

40:36

called like the team of Teams, and it was a way for you

40:38

to bond with other players on the team. And

40:40

so there'd be like two offensive players, two

40:42

defensive players, maybe a special teams

40:44

player, a coach, a trainer, a

40:47

football ops guy. And we did these like challenges.

40:49

So like we'd have field day out on the out on the field

40:51

and be like the egg toss or the frisbee throw

40:53

or you know, a sack race, or one day

40:55

we went down to Fenway. I remember we did this

40:58

great like baseball challenge and one day we'd

41:00

paintballing And it was a way

41:02

for you to connect with guys that you're

41:04

not always sitting there every day with in

41:06

the meetings. And that's where I felt like you had this closeness.

41:09

You know, I go in and sit with the dbs

41:11

at lunch one day, and the next day I'd sit with the linemen,

41:13

and you had these relationships with guys

41:16

where in all, honestly, it was almost closer

41:18

than some of the college's college teams, where

41:20

you're spending all this time with these guys because we all

41:22

go home to our families, but when you

41:24

came in here, it was like your second family in true

41:26

you know, and I'm not just saying that like as clichey.

41:29

See he glossed over that. Do you see what he did there before?

41:32

The whole thing. Bill doesn't deserve

41:34

the credit.

41:35

For that, right right, right right that he gets right

41:37

right, this guy right right When

41:40

you came back again third time in

41:42

twenty twenty, was

41:45

there a hint of disappointment

41:47

when they end up signing Cam, Yeah, definitely.

41:49

I mean, well, that whole scenario is

41:52

so in twenty nineteen, you

41:54

know, Bill comes to me, obviously that was Sidham's rookie

41:56

year, and he says, look like, we got

41:58

to manage this roster a little bit. Are

42:01

you okay with like kind of waiting, you know, we'll

42:03

let you go and we'll resign you after the first week.

42:05

And I was like, sure, like, you know, I love, you

42:07

know, being a part of this organization. And

42:11

and all of a sudden, my agent calls me. He's like, hey,

42:13

Indianapolis is offering you a great deal. And

42:15

I was like, I felt torn, but it was

42:18

an opportunity that I looked at like.

42:19

In the long run, this will pretty good money.

42:21

Yeah, yeah, great.

42:21

It was a great deal. And

42:24

so in a way, I kind of thought like I never really

42:26

left, you know, so like Thirdston, I was gone for four

42:28

months and then I was right back, and with

42:31

Tom moving on, I'm like, wow, this is

42:33

my opportunity. And so I remember training

42:35

like the hardest, and this was during COVID and

42:37

and trying to train on your own and trying

42:40

to be as prepared as I could. And

42:42

you know, so obviously I was disappointed

42:45

when they signed Cam because that

42:47

was like something I had always dreamt of. You know, I had

42:50

started for all these other teams, but I had never really

42:52

played for the Patriots, the one team that I kind of

42:54

considered myself that was the team

42:56

that was my team. So it

42:59

was it was disappointing, but like I said, you know, it's

43:01

not something that I had never lived through before. And

43:03

you try to navigate it the best you can.

43:06

I mean, obviously people will look at when

43:08

Tom left and there's clearly a void

43:10

on the field.

43:14

You saw some of the ups and downs that

43:16

happened after that. It

43:19

wasn't just on the field where that

43:21

void was felt. I assume that that was

43:23

felt in the locker room, and it probably

43:25

was difficult and challenging.

43:27

For someone like you.

43:28

By Paul mentioned this earlier, you

43:30

saw when things were going really well, so

43:33

a Devin, So it Matt. People like that when

43:35

things aren't going well and

43:37

you guys are some of the leaders and everything, like how

43:40

do you try to sit there and recapture

43:42

what you know is the right way to do things? You

43:45

know what winning football is, and

43:47

yet that's not happening on the field. Yeah,

43:49

that had to be just tremendously frustrating.

43:52

It was, and I think twenty twenty was such a unique

43:54

situation because of the COVID year, because

43:56

of like what you were allowed to do. Obviously,

43:59

you know, cam in late

44:01

and there's no real training camp, and it

44:03

was just it was a it was an odd year all the

44:05

way around. And so you know, next year

44:07

it was like, Okay, we're getting back to like what you

44:10

know, at least to me, felt

44:12

similar to what it was obviously was different with our

44:14

team routine routine, and

44:17

and then Matt comes in and I remember

44:19

thinking, like, God, they have to be like telling the

44:21

guy, like where what to do out here a practice

44:23

because he was learning so quickly that

44:25

I was like, I've never seen a rookie pick

44:28

up a system like this. And it became

44:30

pretty apparent that he was going to be the starter.

44:32

And I truly, you know, my time

44:34

with Cam was was great. I came to you

44:37

know, really know him and appreciate him

44:39

for what he was, and he was hilarious and he was

44:41

great in meetings and and so I know, like

44:43

his time here was kind of you know, looked

44:45

at like it wasn't really you know, a

44:47

success, but he he impacted

44:50

a lot of guys and we would there was things that Cam

44:52

did and sayings that he would say that carried with

44:54

us after even he was not here anymore.

44:57

And so, you know, I really enjoyed and I've

44:59

had a lot of experiences like that, like kind

45:01

of these polarizing figures, you know, Cam

45:03

Newton or when I was in Chicago with Jay Cutler, people

45:06

were always like, well, what was that like? And I was like, I really

45:08

enjoyed it because you got to see a personality

45:10

of someone who from Afar you don't really

45:12

know, like what's the deal. And so being

45:14

in a room with Cam for a year and a half really

45:17

it was always made me smile. So it was it

45:19

was that was kind of cool opportunity about that.

45:21

But you know, you get to twenty twenty one

45:24

where you know, Mac ends up winning

45:26

the job and and you kind of get back to like

45:28

what I thought was really, you know what we had

45:31

always done the Patriot way, and I

45:33

mean, for lack of a better term, but

45:35

but there was also a new energy with some of the newer

45:38

guys like Kendrick Bourne, Judaon Mills,

45:41

Hunter Henry and so it kind of was a new

45:43

flavor. And really that was one of my more

45:45

enjoyable years playing here because it was kind

45:48

of like in a sense of changing of

45:50

the guard, but we were still playing good

45:52

football.

45:53

So Cam was great with us, by the way, Yeah

45:55

he was. Also he was it was you know, on field

45:58

obviously probably not up to you

46:00

know what he had become accustomed to.

46:01

It seemed like a good teammate.

46:03

Yeah, Well, he was great gat It was great to deal

46:05

with and we all joke about like the nicknames and stuff,

46:07

and like some of those nicknames lasted with guys

46:09

well passed fantastic when Cam was gone. He was

46:11

a great to night and a great, a great guy.

46:13

So you got a chance to play again

46:16

the following year. I was at twenty two

46:19

when I got twenty against So again

46:21

it's like this kind of blessing curse

46:23

at the same time, great career and every

46:25

time you sort of get a chance to get it in

46:28

the spotlight, something happens. It just has to

46:30

be we did.

46:31

That was rushed. I mean I remember being emotional

46:34

about that one because it was like, you know, I

46:36

got to play a chance to play in twenty twenty. But

46:38

that was the.

46:38

Whole like co COVID, that was a mess.

46:41

We found out on Saturday, then the game got

46:43

plays flew in on the day of and

46:45

not making excuses, it was just

46:47

it was odd. It was one of the most odd experiences

46:50

I ever had. And so this time in

46:52

twenty twenty two, you know here

46:54

it is like Max Hurt, You're gonna play full

46:56

week of practice, have a really good drive

46:58

to start the game. Things going well and

47:00

then boom, you're out. And that

47:03

was to me was like, man, that was probably

47:05

my last chance to really play for the team

47:07

that I love, and so that was that was a

47:09

a tough.

47:10

One, last one for me.

47:11

Here, Brian, is I hear you say

47:13

that the team that I love, and we talked

47:15

about, you know a little bit about some of the other places you

47:17

want and everything like that.

47:19

We call this the Patch from the Past podcast. Do

47:21

you identify as a Patriot?

47:23

Yeah, one hundred percent. I was kind of thinking. I figured

47:25

you'd ask me this on and so I was thinking, you

47:27

know, I was here some former fashion ten years

47:30

out of my fifteen, which is kind of crazy

47:32

to think when you hear like, oh he was on this many teams,

47:35

but you know, nine to twelve and

47:37

a training camp and then seventeen eighteen, nineteen,

47:39

twenty, twenty one, twenty two. I mean,

47:41

so my kids are from here.

47:44

You know, we've kind of made this our home. And

47:47

you know, when I look at my career, although

47:50

I played the least on this team, I

47:52

also kind of look at myself like this is that's

47:55

who I am. And I had

47:57

a lot of great memories other places, but I've

47:59

had the best memories here.

48:00

So I do want to ask you about

48:02

coming off the bench last year, you

48:05

know, in Vegas, and what that was like too.

48:07

So to rally the troops after Jimmy.

48:09

Went down, Yeah, that was a I'm

48:12

thinking to myself, of all the times to get

48:14

thrust into a game, this is the one.

48:16

And and Jimmy

48:19

got hurt, like right before halftime and kind of toughed

48:21

it out a little bit, and I'm

48:23

like, oh, kind of similar, like he

48:25

got hurt, but then he went back out. He played a few snaps

48:27

like oh, he's probably okay, and then they take him

48:29

in They're like, listen, we got to tame him the hospital. I'm like, all right,

48:32

here we go. And and you know, of all teams

48:34

to go against, I'm like, well, I know this team, I know this

48:36

defense, and I know our offense

48:39

really well. And so I was like, all right, I'm

48:41

just gonna go out.

48:41

There and I'm throwing a bomb.

48:42

Well, that play we

48:45

developed against our defense in training camp

48:47

a few years because there was a lot of times where we call

48:49

play and Devin had seen it so many

48:51

times that they would teach him to rob the

48:54

guy who which was Julian at the time,

48:56

our number three receiver running a speedo

48:58

and so I'm like, oh God, here we go. This is the play,

49:01

and we made adjustment to put the outside guy

49:03

on a deep route in case they did that. So

49:05

I remember getting the snap. I kind of knew

49:07

that down a distance it could be that defense,

49:10

and all I watched was Peppers, and

49:12

as soon as he went down, I don't even know if I looked

49:14

to Trey, who I was throwing the ball to, I'm like,

49:16

I know that area of the field is exposed, and

49:20

sure enough, that kind of got the jitters out,

49:22

and then you just go play football. And then you

49:24

know, as the game's going on, I'm realizing, like, just

49:27

don't screw it up, you know. I mean, we're winning,

49:30

we're kicking some field goals, that our defense is

49:32

doing pretty well. But

49:34

I remember the feeling I had after

49:36

that game of like just bittersweet

49:39

because I remember going up to my team and the guys that

49:41

I love, the guys that I consider brothers, and I could just see

49:43

how dejected they were. I know, I knew, you

49:45

know, based on staying in touch with them, how tough

49:48

of a year it was. And so I was elated

49:50

because it was kind of vindication

49:53

for me to come back and beat

49:55

the team after being told basically to go retire.

49:58

And I felt great, but I also it

50:00

hurt my heart to see

50:02

these like I'll never forget David Andrews just being

50:04

like exhausted and you

50:07

know, beaten down or Slater and

50:09

and all those guys, and so it was kind of like a

50:11

mix of mixed emotions and looking

50:13

back, I should have just you know, been done after that game

50:15

and been like, all right, you know, I did my part, you

50:17

know, because the rest of the year for us was

50:19

it was downhill. But it's

50:22

something that you know, it goes down as

50:24

like a as a great memory, but also like

50:26

a bittersweet one too.

50:27

I mean, he said it. We're

50:30

professional athletes. I'm not looking for anything specially

50:32

anything like that. But let's not forget.

50:35

They're human beings too. Yeah, they're human

50:37

beings, and to and.

50:38

To hear like, wow, this is great

50:40

for me individually.

50:41

Oh shoot, you know, these.

50:43

Are my guys and they're going

50:45

through a tough time and I just helped extend

50:47

that tough time.

50:49

You know.

50:49

Really interesting, Fran, Thanks for the time, great, Thank

50:53

you for downloading this podcast, Subscribe

50:56

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50:58

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