0:00

Glenn Mason said a long time ago at the University of Minnesota, you need

0:02

a Pair and a Spare. Thank you, PJ. It is that time

0:05

another edition of the Pair and a Spare podcast presented by Jack's Cafe ninety years

0:10

in Minneapolis. Unbelievable spot Jackscafe dot com, Jaxcafe dot Com. We'll talk

0:16

about them in a minute, but first we've got Ryan Burns from Gopher Illustrated

0:19

dot com. We've got Chipskogins from the Star Tribune. I'm justin Guard from

0:23

Cafe Inn and the Gopher Radio Network. Let's get first things first. How

0:27

was everyone's Halloween? Everybody good? We didn't get many kids as year.

0:31

Was your light on? Yeah? I could see you forgetting to turn light

0:35

a light on? Did the cold? Is that what it was? We

0:39

scared? Maybe this is the twenties theory was normally because we have several neighborhoods

0:45

connected, mm hmm, that kids hit all the neighborhoods and our streets become

0:49

older. We don't have as many young kids anymore, right, so I

0:51

think people just probably stayed on their street. Yeah, what do you give

0:54

out? Because houses get known, especially amongst the kid Yeah, my wife

0:57

got the candy she had, uh, you weren't like and sweet with chocolate,

1:02

so she had, you know, the butterfingers, but then she also

1:04

had the nerds and the Yeah. I could have seen him given him like

1:07

worthers, Yeah, or like chip could be the house. There's always there

1:11

was always a house that give out like apples and like two bress. Yeah,

1:15

we're worth it. Mean he's got the little dish in his den.

1:19

Of course he does. He's got the little dish in his den. I

1:22

mean he is that commercial and sharing with your grandparents. He's thinking about it.

1:25

You're the progressive commercial. Yeah. Tell me you don't love words, I mean they're fine. Love is a strong word. Love. I haven't

1:33

had one. I think the last time I had words was nineteen ninety three

1:37

with my grandpa. So, I mean, I have fond memories of having

1:41

a orders. I don't know if I'm honey, rooms, do you have

1:44

just a little dish of hard candy and chip? I don't know if I'm

1:47

seeking out worthers, if I'm like, hey, put this on the list,

1:49

honey, So you got like a peppermint hard candy dish in each one

1:53

of the room, peppermints are okay. Peppermints are okay. See, we

1:59

we're in the the kind of the phase of life where we try to avoid all the hard candy because of the choking hazard, you know what I mean.

2:05

It seems like a smart decision. Like my guy at Pilgrim Cleaners, Alan, He's got a great, great candy dish right there in the front

2:10

when I drop off shirts for dry cleaning and stuff. And every time the

2:14

kids want to have something like I don't think so we got scary And I

2:17

tell Alan, I go, come on, man, can we get some

2:20

butterfingers or can we get some chewaboys in here? But that's all right.

2:23

I'm sure your Halloween was great. Not as good as your parents, but I'm sure it was. Fah. There it is one last time I brought

2:30

it up until next year. He's all mad at the PJ Press conversation.

2:32

You brought it up? You brought did you get comments? Oh? Yeah,

2:38

my parents heard about it. I hope. My mom doesn't even understand

2:40

what a podcast is. No, so she's like, how many people hurt

2:44

it? And I'm like, just a couple. If no one listens to this, yeah, a few and then my dad was like, yeah,

2:50

I got a couple pun calls. I think we said this last year.

2:53

Your dad loves it. Your mom's mortified, but you brought it up.

2:59

I have nothing to do with it, Like you led let him down the

3:02

path? He said, what did you expect us to do with that information?

3:06

That reminders? Just let it go? Okay, let's talk about the golfers, Like, no, we had to spend a little bit of time

3:10

on that. So what do you do on Halloween because you're out and about.

3:15

So does one of you stay home? No, we either leave a

3:17

dish or we just say you're on your own. Kids. Sorry, because

3:21

last year, my wife your kids. No, no, no, no,

3:24

we don't put anything out. Okay, this year we didn't put anything

3:27

out because my wife was so mad because a year ago, like one kid

3:31

rolled through and took all of it. She's like, I'm doing it second

3:34

straight year ahead of kid. Do that. Yeah, I got the video

3:37

doorbell like we all do. That's it. Watched him take twenty five candy

3:42

bars and leave. Who are your parents? Yeah, that's what I want

3:44

to know. I'll blame the kid for this. And there's been a lot

3:47

of videos because it's funny. Now everybody's got the ring cameras. They've got

3:51

there. There was one series of like three moms that basically were leading the

3:54

charge with their kids, going come on, guys, grab it all.

3:58

It's like, you're horrible people. What is that? Now there's been a

4:00

couple of videos and congratulations of these parents where you see kids go up to

4:04

an empty dish, disappointed for a minute, and then put some candy that

4:08

they don't like that in the ball. Those are the kids. That's who

4:12

you aspire to be as your story, your chap a little bit. It

4:15

does. There's good people out there's mister Rogers once said, look for the

4:17

helpers. Look for the helpers. So this year, though my wife is

4:20

like not doing it, whoever took them ruined it for the neighborhood. And

4:26

we have a lot of candy too, you know from different from Easter and

4:30

Halloween and all this stuff, Like we could have we could have put out

4:32

some candy. Yeah, but usually our kids are little like there's gonna be

4:39

plenty of time for us to get the door. So they get home and

4:41

they organize the train. I remember kids doing it. Yeah, it's great,

4:45

Yeah, it's great. And they've all, you know, and then they figure out like what candies they like, which one dad likes. Their

4:51

gym teacher has them brainwashed that they all had to bring him kit cats.

4:56

So number one candy, Yeah, that is my hot it's a great one.

5:00

And so I texted him because I know him, and I said,

5:02

hey, man, you're kind of depleting my KitKat stock here, because I've

5:08

never seen kids more diligent about getting something done than to make sure they had

5:11

kitcats for mister I the gym teacher. He's a great teacher, great guy,

5:15

great teacher. So anyway, Happy Halloween, especially to Burns's parents.

5:19

Thirty one, thirty two years, No, thirty one years later, thirty

5:24

two years later, because it was a Halloween blizzard. You're thirty one,

5:27

you nailed it, so thirty two years. What a magical night that must

5:30

have been. And I hope they had great, great memories this last Halloween.

5:33

I hope for the kids in their neighborhood sake, they at least turn

5:35

the light on for a few minutes, for a few minutes. I hope

5:39

one day we can tell a story that can mortify Chips children so that he'll

5:43

share with us probably off. I mean we have the charger, the beer

5:47

games, the credit card. I mean, all this stuff should mortify mortified

5:51

by me at this point, also death taxes, and you and I sitting

5:55

there in between Maryuci and the stadium and somebody walking up to a chip and

5:59

say you are just you're You're a legend. Where have you been though?

6:05

I mean, I remember I said Gopher football is going to be in an

6:09

inclusive place. We miss you, buddy, I mean we missed you the

6:12

last couple of games, the press conferences. Two games, now, I

6:17

mean it was one okay. The first one is that you weren't at Michigan

6:21

State. Yeah, you missed the last two. Yeah, because I don't

6:26

think you've been Vikings Packers yep. And we were traveling on that one.

6:30

And then you could have gotten too Green Bay after the game, my uh

6:33

colleague level wanted the level. Yeah, so all right, and that's kind

6:39

of teammate you are, all right? Well, we miss you. Yeah,

6:42

we're glad to see you. We miss hearing the sounds of broken keys

6:46

on your keyboard. You know, the pitter patter is I go to try

6:48

to get one last Coca Cola before they lock up the counter. You know,

6:51

I know it's bad because Royce was made a comment about the other day

6:56

and he types as hard as I did. You're typing yeah, yeah,

7:00

Well it's like, wow, better down a little bit. My Illinois counterparts

7:04

were trying to grab a beverage after the game and they went up to it

7:06

and they were like, why is this locked? Yeah, and he was

7:10

like, I know, I know, yeah, I know. I'm the

7:12

University of Minnesota. Because we we're counting cokes. Ye, we're counting because

7:16

that's important. It's going to help us. It's going to help us make

7:19

budget this year. We're counting cokes and you know where were we I don't

7:26

know. I don't want to complain. I don't want to complain. Yeah,

7:29

it's not worth it. We know the people that listen, yes, and then the things we're going to have to sit through. We have a

7:33

we have a we have a nice working environment in Huntington Banks Stadium. That's

7:38

what I'll say, a lovely working environment. It's very easy to get around,

7:41

it's very easy to go do like that. It spread out. Yeah,

7:43

it's great, got plenty of room. It's a it's a lovely stadium

7:46

and let's just leave it at that. Yep, the Gophers fall twenty seven

7:48

twenty six to Illinois. Brett Belama gets one for the other thumb. He

7:53

is now ten and h against the University of Minnesota seven and l at Wisconsin

7:57

three and oh he's beaten PJ. Fly in the Gophers all three years that

8:01

he's been in Champagne. It looked like the Gophers were going to lose,

8:03

then it looked like a since they were going to win, and then they

8:07

ended up losing on a forty six yard pass from a backup quarterback who hadn't

8:11

played since September to the best player maybe on the field, Isaiah Williams,

8:16

who somehow broke wide open after a timeout and went between arguably the two best

8:22

players the Gophers have on defense, Cody Lindenberg and Tyler Nuban. And just

8:26

like that, what was setting up to be an outstanding day for you in

8:30

the Big Ten West standings, given that Nebraska lost, given that Wisconsin lost,

8:35

and I will win one, but you have a head to head with

8:37

them, and they have some losable games on their schedule. I was talking

8:41

with someone before the game, guys, and they said, man, if

8:43

we just and this is a person affiliated with the You. If we just

8:48

do what we're supposed to do here, we are going to be in a

8:50

pretty good spot. And unfortunately they couldn't close the deal. Chip, We'll

8:54

start with you your general thoughts on the loss to the ALIGNA. Yeah, I was thinking that that Lindenburgh punch out was going to be one of those

9:03

defining plays in the season because I thought that was going to be the thing

9:07

that won the game. And that was on a third down that they convert and then and they could strain it, and I'm thinking, this game's almost

9:13

there. If he doesn't make that play, I think the game's over.

9:15

It's worth remembering that. And I was sitting there thinking like that's gonna because

9:18

in a season they're defining plays, that was going to be a defining play.

9:22

Yep, man, you forget about it now. Unfortunately the defining play

9:26

Williams. Now, Yeah, you can't lose a game. I mean, it's just excuseable. There's so much to get to about that game. Your

9:33

safeties cannot get beat deep there. It just it can't happen. I mean,

9:37

and I know they're say it's a miscommunication, but I go back to

9:43

third and nine into the first half, you run it up the middle and

9:48

kick a field goal. At some point you have to play to win.

9:52

You can't be so conservative and risk averse. I mean, your quarterback is

9:56

in a rhythm, he's throwing the ball. Well, I thought he had

9:58

a really nice first half. You're tied, end made a touchdown, Daniel

10:03

Jackson has become a go to guy, and you run it on third and

10:07

nine and settle for a field goal. You can't how many times does this

10:11

coach have to be we have to go through this. I think it's important

10:16

to note because you say this coach, and all the three of us know

10:20

who we're talking about it. It's not Greg Harbown, it's PJ. Fleck.

10:24

Because there's so many certain instances that you'll see three to five plays on

10:28

offense within a given game where you're like, yeah, that's got Fleck's fingerprints

10:31

all over it. And he actually got bailed out there to an extent on

10:35

the third nine because Bielima didn't use the time out, which he would actually

10:39

didn't, which he would have gotten the ball back with over two minutes left. But I just, I mean, the difference between seven and three in

10:46

a one point loss. It's like, at some point I don't understand it.

10:52

Well, here's what what is the rationale there? The rational to me,

10:56

the rationale he has is And this is where it's faulty, this particular

10:58

seae. And I know we've had other seasons like this as well, but

11:03

he thinks his defense is just going to hold everybody and we've got enough.

11:07

Now he's coming off two weeks where they did. Let me give him a

11:09

stat the Gophers are one hundred and fifteenth nashally in third down defense. There

11:18

you go. A year ago they were six nationally twenty percent. It's not

11:22

the same defense. He can't coach that way exactly, or even within that

11:24

specific game. You'd already given up two touchdowns. Now again, one of

11:28

them is a gift of special teams and the other one they actually go down

11:31

and get. But your defense hadn't been playing well really at any point in

11:35

that first half. Yet you're trying to lean on them again. But even

11:39

if regardless of the defense, put keep your foot on the gas, especially

11:43

when your quarterback is in a rhythm the second straight week, he's played so

11:48

well in the first half, and this is the most mind boggling part about

11:50

it, and I asked Flck about it yesterday, is your quarterback has played really well in the first half and then then the second half combined in the

11:56

last two games, Chips, you know how many passes ethan Is completed the

12:01

second half of bust two games. H Well, he was only two.

12:05

Last week he was what a four or three? Minnesota has completed three second

12:09

half passes against Michigan State in Illinois after Ethan in the first half was like

12:16

eighty percent in both, multiple touchdowns in both and you know one of those

12:20

his crews drops a touchdown and then what well, yes, but then what

12:22

happens. Fleck gets his fingerprints all over this offense tries to go risk averse,

12:28

thinking he's got mo Ibrahim and he's got Jordan Nubin and a banged up

12:31

Zach Evans and then this thing just doesn't work. Here's why that that's really

12:35

the one scenario that really bothers me. And I know there's others to talk

12:39

about, but why that one play bothers me is because you're at the twenty

12:43

two yard line and you can afford We talked about it on Sunday, Burnsy,

12:48

you can afford a sack there. You know your your guy can let's

12:50

say it's a ten yard sack, which is a deep sack. Correct,

12:54

you're still to thirty two. You got a kicker that can make a fifty

12:56

yarder if you need to. Like, I know, you know, we

13:00

had fun last year with you know, he didn't want to throw an interception

13:03

whatever game it was, before the half, and the next week he goes for it. There's a tipped ball that gets picked right at Northwestern and then

13:07

he comes up to you all hot and heavy saying this is what I was

13:11

saying. No, I said that I can't believe I'll reckless you or before

13:13

the half, what are you doing throwing? And he said that had nothing.

13:16

I just want everyone to know it had nothing to do with last week.

13:18

Blah. But so I get like, he doesn't want to turn it

13:24

over there, But also, your quarterback's playing well, you've you can take

13:28

a sack. So if you're afraid for a turnover, I get it,

13:31

But I don't get it. I think because you can play that game either

13:35

way, you can't coach that way. If you're so worried about turnovers,

13:39

Yeah, then you get the wrong personnel well, sorry, it's just it's not even that as much as because he keeps saying we have not we have

13:46

yet to play a full game complimentary, complimentary football. And what I'm gonna

13:52

talk to him abou at the radio show today is it's November. We kind

13:56

of have to stop waiting for it, right, We kind of have to coach. You might not have a complimentary game. Yeah, in the next

14:03

three weeks, you might have to manufacture some other stuff you might have to

14:07

take. So that one like the new beIN third and one around midfield,

14:09

I mean, I know it got blown up. Whatever. I mean, he went for it on the third and four and his QB airmailed over a

14:16

six to seven field like they make that play. The game's old, so there's times where they do. I think that the strip sack he goes.

14:22

Now, you can argue he should have thrown more than just on first down,

14:26

but they dial up a play right there. Ethan puts a pretty good

14:28

ball on probably should be a touchdown. It's like when he does what we

14:33

think should he should do doesn't work. And yeah, and by the way,

14:37

also what you've said, and I know I'm rambling, guys, so

14:41

feel free to take it from here. Twenty six points is enough to beat

14:43

Illinois, Yeah, no matter how conservative you are, thirty four or whatever

14:46

it is against Northwestern. Yeah, the two games certainly should be enough.

14:50

The two games that you lost were defensive implosions where you've scored twenty six points

14:54

in a Big ten West game, Big ten West game, which, oh,

14:58

by the way, Minnesota's number one in the Big Ten West in points

15:03

score. Think about it in conference play? Think about that? Yeah,

15:05

yeah, well I was, and then you lost the game. He scored

15:07

thirty four. Yeah, I know. I was looking at it yesterday,

15:11

just their pass efficiency because I was curious to see if you know where they

15:16

are one hundred and thirteen Nashally. I'm like, man, it's bad.

15:18

It's like there's five worst teams in a Big Ten than that. I'm not

15:22

kidding. It's it's unbelievable how poor the offensive play is in this conference.

15:30

And for them to lead the Big Ten West and scoring in conference play conference

15:35

games is even an indictment to your point with like Athan on those, I

15:39

mean, he played, he played well, he's playing better since the bye

15:43

yea. I think we all can agree with it. I agree with that but it's consistency. It's that it's the second down where he pulls it.

15:48

Inflec mentions it yesterday. If he just puts his left foot in the ground

15:52

and goes north south. Yeah, we talked about it. He probably gets

15:54

a first down and then it's the worst case if you don't get another one.

15:58

Illinois gets the ball back with like forty seconds left and it's going to

16:02

be way deep. Or again you allow Harbaugh, Harbo, We're gonna do

16:07

this. You guys got to pull together. It's not that hard. Like

16:11

Harbo goes to an unbalanced formation where they shift Arianta Earstreet from left tackle all

16:15

the way to the right side. That means Nick Caller up the tight end

16:18

as your de facto left tackle, and they go with the Auburn pop pass.

16:22

It's wide open, and then Ethan just goes Johann Duran for whatever reason.

16:26

That's where I struggle with him, because make a play like you see

16:33

the touchdown pass to Daniel Jackson, Yeah, which by the way comes off

16:37

a turnover and second play, I'm assuming they take a shot, yeah,

16:41

and they hit it, and so it's like, so I'm torn with the

16:44

I know he was conservative in some stretches, but there was also times where

16:48

they they did what they're supposed to do, like that's exactly what you should

16:51

do, what you do, And even for him, I was saying to somebody on the sidelines, that's I don't remember what the down and distance was.

16:56

It was second down. I don't know what it was the distance,

16:59

but that to me was almost like aggressive conservative PJ where I'm taking a shot

17:03

here and if I don't get it, I'm gonna run the ball take it. It's like I knew what he was gonna do, but at least they

17:07

did it there. And you throw it to your best player and your QB

17:11

puts the ball on them, and that should be the ball game after you

17:14

get the gift turnover. But then you on third and four, when you

17:17

know you're just callers wide open pot pass and you throw it one hundred and

17:21

twenty five an hour to It's like what in the world. Yeah, Or

17:25

even the first turnover, joh Joiner gets a strip sack first play, Minnesota

17:29

takes a shot at the end zone to a veteran receiver. He's got to

17:32

make that play. Yes, drops twenty four to fourteen. You lose four

17:34

points. And it's just the analogy Fleck used yesterday was Roulette. The way

17:41

he views it is, there's I think he said, what did you say,

17:44

ten to twelve plays? Yeah, in these games where they've all gone

17:47

against him, he goes, it's it's either gonna go red or black at

17:49

the table. And you walk up to the table and it keeps hitting red,

17:52

red, red, and your think yourself, I can't keep going this

17:56

way. And that's the way he thinks about it, which I don't agree

17:59

with. In that Northwestern now Illinois debacle is and he he said, I

18:03

heard the one quote where he said, you keep going back to is it

18:07

coaching, scheme or personnel? Yes, it's all of it, Yes,

18:12

it is. It's all of them. I mean, because it's it's I

18:17

mean, you know, if Crooms catches that ball, you know, or

18:21

or calac Mass complete that pass, or if PJ doesn't run up the middle

18:26

on third nine, all those things. Yeah, And but that and that

18:30

is with all these teams, they're they're not good enough. They're all hovering

18:33

around five hundred, like it's going to be whoever whoever gets more of those

18:38

random I guess not even random, whoever has more of those plays during a

18:42

game go their away. This year is because every team right now is five

18:47

and four, four and five, two and three, three and two except

18:49

Iowa usked this last week. Will five and four win the division? There's

18:55

still it's still a possible way. But I think we'll get to Iowa.

18:59

It's still a possibility. But that was a very very damaging loss. That's

19:04

the one. And we can get into fan reaction, but I immediately got

19:11

three techs from people I'd say, are black guys, fans, you know,

19:15

die hards, airfleck people. That's the kind of loss that loses faith

19:18

in your fan base. It could not saying they're not going to go to

19:22

any more games. Nobody's calling for him to be fired. Yeah that I

19:26

got just this. He loses the same way. He only believes there's one

19:30

way to win a football game. There's just too many of those losses.

19:33

And this is in this twenty twenty three team. Isn't Mo Ibraham, it

19:37

isn't Tan or Morgan, it isn't your defense from last year. And yet

19:42

he continues to try and win football games. And I hear him to an

19:45

extent about the whole roulette thing. Yeah, especially on offense, where you

19:49

have guys that just need to make plays, but you just you have to

19:55

learn that, especially as the Big Ten continues to adapt and you get Washington,

19:59

Oregon, the usc US t l A. And these aren't going to

20:02

be the types of games you're going to be playing in anymore. The let's

20:07

talk about the defense, because I think we'd all agree the defensive line has

20:11

been like nine tackles, their best defensive line and a couple you know,

20:18

ROSSI called them the most disruptive defense they've had. I would agree. I

20:22

mean in terms of just playmakers and guys making splash plays. Yes, you

20:27

have a you know, a really good safety who you know he took a

20:32

bad angle on the one touchdown, but you know a good player. Well,

20:37

he said, he's the one who got beat affirmed yesterday on the Isaiah

20:40

Williams play, which Western too. I have an Amora. That's the thing.

20:45

I mean, he's made splash plays, but he also I mean on

20:47

the first on the screen pass it went fifty four yards, he took a really poor angle on that. Yes, you know, a really poor angle.

20:52

Yeah. So there's been some plays the other way against him too.

20:56

The plus minus I mean, I'm I'm assuming it's still very much play us,

21:00

but there's been minus. But the minuses have come in gigantic spots.

21:03

It's tough gigantic spots. I just I feel like they have enough talent.

21:08

They shouldn't be this inconsistent. They were just terrible. They're terrible in zone

21:15

pass coverage, and that's what they elected to play in this game because I'm

21:18

assuming Rossie was terrified Baltmeyer's legs. Aaltmeyer had been their leading rush of their

21:23

starting quarterback. Yeah, led the led the conference in scramble yards, and

21:27

so they didn't play really a lick a man. But they were just so

21:32

bad. And that's kind of the common theme too. When you go back

21:34

and watch the Northwestern game. Minnesota play a lot of zone more or less

21:37

outside of the Waally miss on the post and go or stop and go for

21:42

eighty yards. They're just not on the same page enough where all three touchdowns

21:49

or the three passing touchdowns were all out of trips, they were all in

21:52

zone coverage or even the last touchdown as much as an on nupe And why

21:56

are you sitting in cover two to me where you have two safeties leaving the

22:00

middle of the field open. Their best receiver is a slot receiver. Yeah,

22:06

he was second in the conference behind that Marvin Harrison junior fella in receptions

22:11

receiving yards. He'd already had ten catches in the game. Yet you dial

22:15

up that call where you're asking a linebacker to carry the best player on the

22:19

field for them twenty five yards down the field. How are you not sitting

22:23

back in quarters or something. I just to me that one was a I

22:29

was shaking my head and I'm still shaking my head about ROSSI calling that specific

22:33

play only time out. Yeah, out of a timeout, which you called,

22:37

which I agreed with because you're shuffling guys in and out and get yourself

22:41

doge. Yeah for sure. And by the way, you mentioned Altmeyer,

22:45

he wasn't in at that point because we haven't even mentioned that. You know,

22:48

on the third and eleven that was a strip sack that could have been

22:51

recovered and ended the game. He got banged up, they had to call

22:53

a timeout. He didn't come back. They go to something called John Paddock,

22:57

who's I think a transfer from like Ball State who just loves his life

23:03

in the Big Ten. Can't even believe he gets training tables and he goes

23:07

three for three three d starts, just absolute dimes and which is incredible.

23:15

It's I mean, we talked about the Jordan Nuben game two weeks ago.

23:18

This is the I think his name's John. The John Paddock game has like

23:22

a nine. He had a ninety nine point nine PFF grade because everything was

23:26

just unbelievable. But that's what I don't understand is it's it's out of a

23:30

timeout. You've settled yourself down, you clearly know who the personnel is and

23:33

isn't. At that point, you know who the only player is that can

23:36

hurt you on the field, Yet you throw out a coverage where it's the

23:38

only one he can beat. That's what's been disappointing because that I mean,

23:42

I know we talk about the offense and the play calling and everything, but

23:45

like I mean, the defensive coordinator is making a million bucks and we loved

23:52

it. He's been great, yeah, I mean as he changed the program,

23:56

maybe more than anybody outside of PJ. Fleck, right, I would

23:59

say in twenty eighteen, and he deserves all the credit in the world.

24:02

But this defense has been a disappointment. When you look at the defensive line

24:06

play that they've gotten this year, and Lindenberg in his second in his first

24:08

full game back, played out of his mind. Yeah, out of his

24:11

mind. And then you get Nuban with a pick. You get it's just

24:15

the incan sit. They play so well for eighty eighty five percent, but

24:19

those ten to fifteen percent, Yeah, it's just catastrophic. And they're not

24:23

good enough offensively to cover up for those catastrophic mistakes, right because the offense

24:30

is making those. Yeah, and they've had good enough. They've had games

24:34

where they've they've done exactly what they needed to do, like Iowa, like

24:37

Michigan State. I mean, we go down the list on some of those,

24:40

but it's I mean, you could even talk about North Carolina. You

24:45

know, as good as they are, there are opportunities there for them to

24:48

get off the field or keep them out of the ends. And the offense

24:51

did them no favors that day. We all know that Athan was terrible, but you know they have They have a third down early in that game where

24:56

Drake May scrambles and throws a fifty yard touchdown where the goose he's actually in

25:00

a good position, but he's shoot. Think about Deacon Hill in the opening

25:03

drive third and fourteen, he scrambles but one of the you know, one

25:07

of the Rossie Collin cards. His tenure here has been that they've been good

25:10

on third down and to give up for conversions on third down, yes to

25:15

what was I think the worst third down offense right in the Big ten now,

25:18

which is so funny to me, because that game felt like for the

25:25

first three quarters it, i should say, in the second half, once

25:30

Illinois kind of got the lead, it felt like every bulam the game I've

25:33

ever watched where I'm just like, oh God, it's third and three and

25:37

they're gonna get three and a half, and they're gonna move the chains and

25:40

they're gonna chew the clock. And that's why that fumble was such a gift,

25:44

because I think they might have just run the clock out. Quite frankly, that was gonna be a defining play. It is funny though, once

25:51

they got their stud defensive lineman back, Yeah, how that game pivoted out?

25:55

Well we can. That's to circle back to Ethan, who was very

26:00

in the first half. I mean he had receptions to five different dudes.

26:03

Yeah, two of different guys had touchdowns in the first half. Elijah Spencer

26:06

sighting and then he obviously had one to Daniel Jackson as well. You could

26:10

tell Johnny Newton coming and whatever they were doing, he was uncomfortab. They

26:15

had twelve yards in the second half and into the fourth quarter they made that

26:18

made everybody uncomfortable. Was it just him? Was it something that that did

26:22

differently? Is it a combination, It's all of it. But he was

26:26

not the same He was not the same guy in the second half early,

26:30

and they couldn't run the ball either in the second half, which was a

26:33

problem. Second half numbers there in eighteen times for thirty two yards. First

26:37

half seventeen for sixty one. They couldn't run in it really in either half.

26:41

I mean that was also part of the story to me. It was

26:44

Illinois defensive line brought it to Minnesota's offensive line. And yes, Johnny Newton's

26:48

tremendous and you saw that from the first drive he was back. Yeah,

26:52

three sacks eighth and on third down, but quick aside on that, it

26:57

was going by Quinn Carroll, right, Yeah, he came up the right

27:02

like we all know who Johnny Newton is. Can we help out our guy?

27:07

Like on the first drive, he's in there. Like I've seen them do some unbelievable stuff protection wise, like when they essentially erased George Carloftis a

27:14

couple of years ago. There was one time where there was three guys on

27:17

him and it was awesome, Like, I mean, it was so well coached, so well scouted. They took a guy who literally ruins games and

27:23

was a first round pick, right, Wasn't he like a top for the

27:26

Chiefs? And like they erased him, he was completely a non factor.

27:30

Like the you know, the guy's ready to go, he plays seventy snaps

27:36

when he plays, he's one of the he's going to be a first round pick. He's been sitting there, you know, like yeah, yeah,

27:42

Like what's you know, like he's I'm trying to think, Yeah, I

27:48

don't know. He's sitting there ready to go. Yeah yeah, And he's out there and now he's unleashed and we're just gonna go. Yeah, Quinn,

27:53

you take him? Come on? You know when when past protecting is

27:57

not necessarily his strong suit, right, I mean, there's a reason they

28:00

wanted to move him inside. And I'm not ripping him for it, but

28:03

it's it's like, how about we chipped great out there. Yeah, let's

28:07

let's chip the guy in the first possess. Let's maybe slow his role a little bit, because I'm guessing he came spur rinting out of the tunnel ready

28:12

to go. That one really bothered me. Burns he sorry to interrupt you

28:15

if you can't tell. I mean they move Newton around, and so I'm

28:18

sure they saw who do I want to attack on the Minnesota offensive line and

28:22

pass protection? Yeah, yeah, yeah, first down he was in the

28:26

middle. He got that tackle in the first down. But I just remember

28:29

Tommy Olsen talking about one of the boss Nick or Joey, and I remember

28:33

that their plan was wherever he is, we are going the other way.

28:37

That literally was their plan. Like we're not going to run at him,

28:40

We're not going to do pass pro by him. If he's on this side, we're going over here. That's how dumbed down it was. Like I

28:47

probably would have considered something like that because he he came right out and just

28:52

the whole vibe because then trust me, down on the field, like you

28:56

could tell Ethan was like, Okay, where am I looking? Where is he? What are we doing? Like they didn't have a good sense of

29:00

what was going on, no noise. Defensively, I thought first half he

29:06

looked very comfortable. He was great in a rhythm. Yes, this is

29:08

what we've been wanting to see. And the second half, I don't know

29:11

if it was John Newton, if it was you know, got rattled by

29:15

the touchdown drop. You know, they were better, We just never got

29:18

comfortable. They were horrible on first and second down. I wrote about after

29:22

the game. They had seven third downs they didn't convert a single one.

29:26

Why because they were about eight yards per average. Yeah, which Harbo acknowledged

29:30

with us last week. He goes the Achilles heel of this offense right now

29:33

is off scheduled situations. I know it. You know that the players know

29:37

it. So when you constantly can't run the ball on early downs, they

29:41

didn't elect to go to a short passing game, and you're sitting third and

29:44

long where Johnny Newton and Keith Randolph can pin their ears back, it's just

29:48

not going to go well. So anything else you guys want to discuss about

29:52

this game before we take a pause and Burns. Burns is a very serious

29:56

topic that he says many people are upset about to get to that that we

30:00

have to discuss anything we need to talk about regarding Gophers Illinois, the Illinois

30:04

tyler see the field again, No, I don't think. No, you

30:07

can't. You can't blayhim again. You can't and he knows it. Yeah,

30:10

I mean, And you know what's so sick about that is I haven't

30:15

gone back and watched a lot of this game. I'm pretty sure as he

30:18

was about to get hit, he covered up with two hands. He has

30:21

two hands on the ball and he's fighting for extra yards and the guy just

30:23

rips it out and you can just see that in the kid's eyes. I

30:26

don't. I don't know the guy. You know, I'm sure he came

30:29

here with high expectations. But you can't blame he's unplayable. Yeah, you

30:33

can't play No, And you've said it before, Burns. He didn't have

30:36

a fumbling problem with Western Michigan that we knew about. It's just like a

30:40

one percent outcome for him. And I feel so bad for him. But the reality is, you can't. You already are incredibly banged up in that

30:47

room. He was a guy that had three kickoff return touchdowns at Western.

30:52

You can't play well, there's there's no way you can play if you've built

30:56

your program on the ball. Is a program you can't keep putting a guy

30:59

after who fumbles, right, then it goes against everything you stand for. It's true, it's true. And they don't have the margin for air,

31:04

No that they to overcome all of that. The return game in general still

31:11

not good. You know, that's putting it. Yeah, I mean just

31:14

the obviously Cassis is good even if he doesn't fumble. That you lose five

31:18

yards again, right, And I wrote after the game, coming into that

31:22

game Chip they had lost seventy five yards of field position in eight games on

31:26

kickoff return with an offense that struggles to score. Yeah. Correct, And

31:29

that's just the whole maddening part about it. Yeah, that is why it's

31:32

it doesn't make sense because it is it is visibly handcuffing them, Yeah,

31:37

and making it harder for blockers. Can't block the returnment, can't break a

31:41

tackle, and now they're not even holding onto the ball. And at the

31:44

Coaches Show today you mentioned scheme, coaching, personnel, those that's the holy

31:48

trinity of when something's not going right, we have to talk about it.

31:52

I mean, we have to talk more about them just go because it's you're

31:57

deficient there. That's the word for it. It's just not something and why

32:02

it was just okay with it. That's what's interesting or interesting, that's what's

32:07

tough. And like you say when when you when Minnesota, you need to

32:10

win those margins. Yes, I mean you look at all these teams,

32:15

like I didn't see much of Iowa in Northwestern. I'm guessing Iowa won the

32:17

special team's battle. They blocked a punt, yeah, which gave them great

32:22

field position, and that was their only touchdown on the day was because they were gifted on a block punt. You don't even need that, and then

32:27

they had a walk off fifty to the yard. But I'm even talking about

32:30

the hidden yards, you know, the hidden yards. To me, I always vividly remember Jerry Kill, one of the I think it was first or

32:36

second year at at the U, and the Gophers pretty much outplayed Northwestern,

32:42

but they got crushed in the field position game because Northwestern was pinning them deep.

32:45

Gophers weren't, you know, they didn't have a very good return deal.

32:49

And I just remember Kill saying like special teams will be important here and

32:53

we have to win the hidden yards against each day was awesome for Kill.

32:57

He was their special teams court. I think he was. I think he's

32:59

now the guy at Oklahoma. Okay. So that's why I lose my mind

33:02

all the time. When I see a punt returner not catch a ball and

33:07

in it rolls twenty yards, I'm like, you don't have to return it, but you have to catch it right, because it's like, especially if

33:12

a team has a hard time score, it's like, do you know how

33:15

valuable that yardage is? That just rolled down the field and writing did okay?

33:19

And that on Saturday. He's he's gotten better at least in coming up

33:22

and getting the ball like he's not going to do anything with it. But

33:25

there's been because there were a couple of times mid season where he was letting

33:28

it bounce and it was Curtains, it was over. But you've returned the

33:34

least amount of punts in the Big ten, And it's just how are you

33:36

in year seven and you don't have a guy that you feel comfortable in,

33:39

or you don't have a blocking scheme in front of him that you feel comfortable

33:43

with. There's no excuse for that in any capacity in your seven Speaking of

33:47

your seven. That's what we're going to talk about when we come back.

33:52

Let's pause now to talk about our great partner, Jack's Cafe, a Minneapolis

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do that as well. We're working through that with hockey. But it's always

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a great time guys to go to Jack's Cafe. But none better than the

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time of year we're about to hit on the holiday season. Yeah, brunch,

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take your wife to brunch. Talking to me for everybody, Yeah,

34:42

well you and everybody meant you might just want to go solo. That is

34:46

a nice gesture on a husband's path to wake up on a Sunday and say,

34:51

you know, let's go get brunch at Jack's. Let's put on our Sunday best, like get a suit, you know now to wear suits Burnsy

34:57

could he's got nice new clothes now we've talked about since we share him at

35:00

the press conference, not we you shamed me, but it was collective is

35:06

a lot of people were saying that. I'm sure many people were saying this, Yes, yeah, but I'll be there next week to uh go to

35:10

dinner. I love the steak there. My wife loves the Walleye and she's

35:15

a Walleye snob. YEP. I mean it's whatever your occasion may be,

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boy I call Jax my son Jackson earlier this week. All right, maybe

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over the weekend, said dad, when can we go to Jack's? Actually he wanted to go Sunday. We woke up and said, can we go

35:34

to Jacks today? And I said, you have swimming buddy. He's like,

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I said, but I've looked at the calendar and there's a couple of Sundays where we don't have anything or we don't have anything in the morning and

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we will head over to Jack's and they've obviously got the great party rooms as

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Jackscafe dot com for your reservations. Check out the great menu Jaxcafe dot

35:55

com. All right, Burnsy, explain a lot. The direct quote Chip,

36:05

I think was a lot of people are mad about this. Yeah,

36:07

I'm clueless on this. I want to hear this so you can. There's

36:10

the penultimate statement from Go for Football Sunday is I'm the middle segment guards it

36:15

gets an open, then he gets an ending by himself, and I believe

36:20

the last segment was you being upset with all the Texters about year seven?

36:25

Yes, and then that carried over to Go for Illustrated. It's carried over

36:29

into my mention as it really I haven't looked this week. Oh yes, people are You're walcome for the clicks, so it helping your business getting people

36:37

talking. I understand being upset at the season. What was the comment?

36:40

What do you say? So the comment that I always get and you and

36:44

I have we've talked about this. It shouldn't happen in year seven? Yes,

36:46

Okay, and that to me is I don't understand that comment. I

36:52

don't understand the context of it. I don't understand what that means, like

36:55

just how long a coach is Like to me, it's just, well,

36:59

this shouldn't happen in year seven. The year doesn't matter. It shouldn't happen

37:02

ever, you know what I mean? Like, that's what losing to Illinois,

37:07

losing to Northwestern the way that they do it, like that could happen

37:09

in year one, That could happen in year ten, that happens. I

37:13

mean, we see guys that have been at places much longer like that they

37:17

lose the game. To me, it's just too easy of a crush to

37:20

go. Shouldn't happen in year seven? Like just say that that was an

37:23

annoying loss that shouldn't have happened. How did this happen? The special teams?

37:28

Things different burns eye. I think when you've allowed something to be this

37:32

bad for this long, that's a different discussion than just how does this happen

37:36

in year seven? Yeah, So I had like three minutes to kill. I knew that would get people going, and I'd gotten the text probably a

37:43

dozen times, like seven years of this, which also isn't factually true.

37:46

It's just this year they've had They've had disappointing losses before, obviously, but

37:52

it just that one just bothers me, because so what do we do with

37:54

that thing? Yeah? I think the thing I always come back to is

38:00

the press conference with PJ saying we're not going back to that. Now.

38:05

You know, he's caught up in the motion. But I think we all

38:07

thought, probably well erroneously, that this thing was going to keep elevating,

38:13

elevate and elevating to where though, that's what I don't understand. Where you

38:16

don't have you don't lose the Northwestern the way you did. You don't you

38:22

don't have the kind of losses that Minnesota has experienced traditionally, And right or

38:27

wrong, if you think that's naive, that's fine. But when the coach

38:32

says, stop talking about that, stop talking about the same ogo fort stop

38:36

talking about those losses, We're not going to have any more of those, and then you keep having them, it's like, no, wait a second,

38:42

you told us you're not going to have any more of these. I

38:45

know we might have been naive as hell to think that what you said was

38:47

true. But you said we weren't going back to those days, and you're

38:52

still having these losses. I think that's where the happen to every I know.

38:57

But I think it's it's it's because where they were in twenty nineteen and

39:01

PJ the emotion of it, and look what we're building. Look where this

39:05

thing's going. Yeah, we're not going to have any you know, we're

39:07

not going back to the same Ogopher stuff. And we've seen these losses,

39:12

and so I think people were like, justifiably, like, we've seen this

39:16

before a lot. So I think that's where the frustration comes in. What's

39:22

happening on the boards. I mean, I haven't been there this week.

39:25

You don't want to be there. It's not a good place, especially after

39:29

a loss like that, where there's a lot of good place to it's not

39:31

a safe place right now. Yeah, there's a lot of emotion. There's

39:35

a lot of emotion going on with the hardcores, but yeah, as there

39:37

should be. I mean that, I get that. That's that's why,

39:42

that's what being a fan is. Yeah, you should have strong feelings about

39:45

your program. But sorry, well they're to Chip's point, they're upset about

39:49

the way that they've lost in both games. Isn't necessarily one specific facet other

39:55

than it's the head coach's fingerprints all over it. The common themes in both

40:00

with not letting the offense be the offense. It's Fleck trying to say we're

40:05

gonna win this thing on the ground when you're just incapable of doing that this year. It's relying under defense when they've been poor, especially in these type

40:13

of situations this year and in year seven. I think their gripe would be

40:17

why is he not adapting to what this team is? Where you noted and

40:22

we'll talk about on the radio show today. They haven't played sixty minutes of

40:27

complimentary football at any point like they may have in twenty nineteen or twenty twenty

40:30

one. Why do you keep coaching that way when that's not this team?

40:37

Now? Again, the people calling for his head are insane to me. Yeah, but yeah, I mean he's not getting fired. Those are the

40:44

front well, and I don't think he should. No, I just think the gripe would be everyone wants to see him like we all three do,

40:50

adapt, just adapt to what this team is. This team isn't twenty nineteen.

40:54

You can't run it with mo Ibraham, Shannon Brooks in Rodney Smith like

40:59

you could in twenty nineteen and you're not throwing the you have George Nuban back

41:02

there. Well even you don't even have Bucky Irving or Kai Thomas right now,

41:07

you know, because like in twenty one, twenty one, yeah, I mean again they had won. They had a bad loss to Illinois.

41:12

I think they kept them out of the Big ten West, but that was another nine win seat. I mean that was another solid season where I think

41:17

they beat Wisconsin, right, I mean, yeah, they had to have

41:21

it because they've beaten them two years in a row now. So there's that.

41:24

And I also think just the style of play. I think, you

41:28

know, if you're winning, people tolerate, yeah, boring football. When

41:31

you're not winning, it becomes a nuisance and it becomes a dragon. I

41:35

mean I heard, you know a number of people text me is like,

41:38

it's just it's hard to even watch this. It's not entertaining. And I

41:42

get, but look, that's the Big ten ones, that's the big it

41:45

is. I mean they're gonna have They're all gonna have to come to some type of reckoning or maybe they won't. Maybe we'll find out. We'll find

41:50

out what happened to you wonder if if Pj's risk averse nature and just the

41:54

way he manages games with the run run and being afraid of his past game

42:01

when things were wrong. I just think fans have gotten tired of that.

42:07

And I almost think in this specific instance, when we're talking about right now,

42:09

the worst thing that could have ever happened was the Josh Dobbs game for

42:13

him on Sunday. Why is that? I think it's the best thing. It took attention off. Well, you're talking about Illinois. It's a brand

42:20

new quarterback who had been there four days, comes in and the offense looks

42:24

just fine because Koc is really good at what he does. He's not afraid

42:29

to take I don't think that matters. It's the pros. I mean,

42:31

it's the now between the professional team and the college team, and like we've

42:37

discussed on this podcast before, I think realistic expectations for college play versus NFL

42:44

play are very different. Do you think PJ looks back at that third nine

42:50

and second guesses himself at all? No, you don't think so that's a

42:52

problem. I think he I don't think he would admit it. Well,

42:55

he's not gonna admit it. Yeah, but that's when he goes home in

42:59

night, does he No, you don't at all. No, you don't

43:04

think at all. It doesn't change the evidence. Would we believe that,

43:07

But it has changed. It changed within that game on third and four he

43:10

dropped back to throw it when a lot a lot of people would say,

43:14

well, he talked about run it and make them call the time out and then kick it as opposed to letting them keep their time out. I mean

43:20

there's in that specific instance he said, I'm going for it here. I'm

43:22

gonna trust my guy. Now, third and four is different than third and

43:25

nine. I get that, But you could even argue they would be more

43:29

defensible to try to run the ball on third and four. Well, what you talked about was they ran they tried to run it out against iowhen they

43:34

got bailed out by the defense who saved the day. He said, I

43:37

didn't want to do that again. In this instance. We tried to learn from Iowa and we tried to go win the game. Or like against Northwestern,

43:44

we ran it on that third down and then punted it and then Quentin reading with the most confident, fair catch in the end zone, just an

43:50

incredible I wish I could feel that confidence one time in my life, even

43:55

though it was not even close. And then to look up and see the

44:00

long snapper face palming on his face, double hands up, Like what happened

44:06

to be that confident once in my life? I'll never know. I don't

44:08

know. I mean, I just mean you, Like I said, those

44:12

are the kind of losses that shake the confidence of a fan base. Yeah,

44:16

I could see that. I could see that. But that could happen

44:20

in year five. It could happen in year four, like in year three

44:22

where they're going, wow, I had a schedule like No, they were

44:27

just taking the season as it went. And I do think a big part

44:30

of this is the inability of this team to cash in and win the West

44:37

the last few years when it was there. No doubt, that's a big party. And that's defensible of saying, because that could be part of whatever

44:43

the legacy is. Everything broke right leading up to that game, stay and

44:47

then for them to lose in that fashion, it's like, how do you

44:51

not say, well, here we go again. Yeah, I mean, that's it's just mm hmm. It's fair it's fair for fans to feel that

44:57

way. That way, Yeah, I I mean, I'm not arguing like

45:00

just to me, I just I don't so what is that? Like,

45:06

where did we go with that? That's what I always wanted. So so people want to move on, we want to change it because you covered the

45:10

Mace era w and we had the same exact conversations because I always get well,

45:14

people wanted to go to the next level. I hate to break it

45:16

to everybody, there ain't a lot of levels to go at Minnesota, and

45:21

they're only and and one of them just one of the levels, the Big

45:23

ten West. They're they're scraping that off the top. Like the levels are

45:28

the levels? Like what was the Mace level? Would you say? Eight?

45:32

Eight? Nine? Wins? Categories? Yeah, categorist make losses,

45:36

continue to go to Bowl games, have a couple huge missed opportunities where that

45:40

particular year you felt like you could have had a run, right, yes,

45:44

Like that's the level I hate because I get that one too in its

45:46

body and he's like, well, I'm just kind of sick of being at

45:49

the same spot. Well, they've won nine games, three out of the

45:52

last four, Right, Okay, let's say they win seven this year.

45:58

That would include winning Iowa in wassconsin your two biggest rivals. Like we're just

46:02

going to be sick of that. Like we're just gonna say, oh,

46:06

I don't know what's the next level. There isn't a next level consistently there

46:10

is. You know, you pop up and you try to do it.

46:13

And that's what PJ really hasn't done twenty nineteen is what it is. They

46:15

still didn't win the West. Now, that was a good Wisconsin team and

46:20

that was a good good for team. Yeah, it finished top ten in

46:22

the country. It's a good team. So there's not a lot of levels you can go like because people goes PJ peaked probably, but that doesn't mean

46:30

you can't get back to that peak where it is or somewhat close to it.

46:35

And it's it's the not winning the West. It's the nature of the

46:37

losses. Yeah, it's the way the offense functions, it's the game management,

46:42

it's all those things. It's it's just the whole package that have So

46:45

but that's my question is what do we do with that all that information?

46:49

Then? You know what I mean, Like we just go and go real

46:54

Like if you want to go up to that next level. Okay, go

46:57

find themselves a team like a t boone Pickens. Yes, well there's that

47:00

too, And that's I'm not even talking about that stuff now because people don't

47:05

want to hear it even though it's reality. Like about nil and everything that

47:09

goes with that now, like that's just straight up reality. I had conversations

47:13

yesterday about some basketball stuff going on that like you can't even believe or even

47:16

like, guys, you know, the money just to visit that is legitimately

47:22

happening, Like, hey, I'll come visit you. You got to pay me ten grand, Like that's happening. It just happens in McDonald's bags down

47:29

and not getting Yeah, i mean Chip knows, Yeah, so we'll leave

47:31

this bag right here, Like that's not even that is absolutely part of the

47:36

discussion. But here in Minnesota we can't talk about that because that's an excuse

47:38

to people, which is mind boggling to me. But like that's where I

47:44

don't know, Like you said, yeah, if you want, if you can have someone straight up fund your program, then then you can get to

47:50

whatever level you want to get to. But yep, that's just it's never

47:52

been realistic here, and I'm not saying this means, Hey, it's okay

47:55

to to lose these games. It's okay to melt out against Northwestern. That's

48:00

what people think. It's like just defending how things win. It's like, that's not what I'm saying. I just don't like the knee jerk the other

48:07

way of Man, we've been watching this for seven years, No, we not really. I mean there's been specific times over the years where they've they've

48:15

lost games they should have won. PJ would probably argue, yeah, but my style also won some games that maybe we wouldn't have won in the past

48:21

because I did this. So I don't know. I don't really know what I'm arguing. It's just I'm passionate. That's what people want to hear,

48:28

you know. I don't even know if I'm passionate. I just get annoyed

48:30

because it's like, look around the landscape, like these things happen at a

48:34

lot of different places. I don't know anything else you want to add on

48:37

that, But how do they get to the I mean, I doesn't see

48:45

you for two weeks and he only sees you on Tuesdays. Uh, just

48:52

the I understand the emotion that came pouring out of the fan base on Saturday.

48:59

Yeah, for sure. The frustration, the anger, the disappointment,

49:02

the bewilderment. Yeah, all that I mean, because it's that that loss

49:08

was inexcusable. Sorry, So then what do we do? Well, you

49:13

gotta go win in the last La Fayette as an underdog apparently, Yeah,

49:15

which surprises me considering produced lost six of their last seven and their last four

49:21

nothing. At this point, it's like whoever's playing at home should be I

49:23

mean, every somebody said that that you know, these teams are going to

49:25

score twenty five to thirty points, you can't have big spread. Well,

49:29

then it's going to be close. All these games are going to be seventeen

49:32

fourteen, which is the other thing I'll say about the last real quick like,

49:36

and because everybody likes to say it's terrible and it sucks, it does. I don't agree with that. You think it's good. I don't think

49:43

it's good. I think every team's just okay. I think everything is bad.

49:46

Well, we'll see, because half of them are gonna go to ball

49:49

games, half of them are gonna like we all say, well, they

49:51

all suck, and they all do this. Maybe we'll see because most of the years I'm watching these ball games and the Big Tens winning most of them,

49:57

and then they're they're recruiting they all pretty well. So maybe I just

50:02

don't think there's a great team because like, look at the East we talked

50:07

about this last week, there's not a great team not named Michigan, Ohio

50:09

State, Penn State, and we're talking about over half the East. Yeah,

50:15

and everybody's just okay, who and what? You know, because like

50:17

every league's got, you know, two really good teams. I don't know.

50:21

I mean, we could go an hour and break down team by team

50:23

by team. I just think there's not a lot of difference between I think

50:28

the Big Ten West has teams probably from like twenty five to forty five,

50:32

like five of them. Yeah, I think I think it has really poor

50:37

quarterback play. That's fair. No one's disagreeing with that. Really poor.

50:40

They're just not bad teams. They're just all okay teams. It's just in

50:45

your mind. I think Chip it's it's I mean, he had to watch

50:50

Iowa Wisconsin in person and he's still watch it's absolutely ruin ruined for college.

50:59

All Right, Well, let's talk about a team in the Big Ten East here to wrap up that has been accused of cheating and Mike get punished for

51:07

it here in the next few days, I need to pull up this story.

51:12

As I pull up here, we're talking, of course, about the

51:14

University of Michigan and the Big Ten. After apparently a contentious conference call with

51:20

the coaches on Wednesday and a similar conference call last Thursday that I asked Mark

51:23

Coyle about on Saturday on the pregame show, the Big Ten formally notified Michigan

51:29

that it could be facing disciplinary action from the league. This, according to

51:34

an ESPN story from last night. The letter sent to Michigan as part of

51:37

the Big Ten Sportsmanship Policy, which requires a notice of disciplinary action in the

51:40

event it becomes clear that an institution is likely to be subjected to disciplinary action.

51:45

NCAA is, of course investigating Michigan for a legal off campus scouting and

51:49

signal stealing, but Big Ten Commissioner Tony Petitti has the authority to impose discipline

51:52

under the sportsmanship policy before the link the NCAA investigative and infractions process concludes.

52:00

Michigan has until Wednesday to respond to the Big Ten by the way they're ad

52:04

word. Manual's part of the college Football Playoff Committee. He's not going to

52:07

that this week. He's staying back at ann Arbord to handle this deal. But I think what I saw was the big ten. At any point could

52:14

say Jim Harbaugh is suspended for two games. I think is the max.

52:17

But you can tell, as we talked about before we hit record, guys,

52:22

when I asked Mark Coyle about it, and he called it the Michigan situation disappointing. If you translate that to coil language, that's about as volatile

52:30

as screen. That's his going. Everyone should be fired or suspended if I'm

52:35

translating. If I went to Google, translating, went coil to because he

52:38

usually doesn't go out on those types of limbs, and it's not even that

52:43

much of a limb. But the people are pissed about this, and by

52:45

the way, I am too. Yeah, go ahead, here's the thing.

52:47

You're Michigan. You already have you know, all the advantages in the

52:53

world in terms of everything you need. Yep. And so there's a uh

53:00

take this removed. There is probably some envy or jealousy within the Big Tans,

53:06

like what what do we used to hear they're born so, and then

53:10

you had this cheating scandal and the depth that they went to to do this.

53:15

I think everybody has the right to be angry, and I would have

53:19

loved to hear that phone call with coaches and ads. Incredible, But I

53:23

want to see I apologize for not reading the story. But it sounds like

53:28

Michigan's gonna mount the defense of other teams were doing it too, or something

53:32

something like that. I mean, I think the point that we'll get to

53:37

when we come back and talk next week, if Harbaugh has been disciplined or

53:40

whatever it is, I would be absolutely to use the the words of your

53:45

three to six thirty co hosts there, gob smacked. We do dob smacks

53:50

now for Josh Dobbs. Look at you? Is him? Yeah? I

53:53

just enjoyed it. I'd be gobsmacked that Harby actually he's actually gets this because

54:00

then they're going to counter sue and then it's going to go into courts, and then the legal system takes forever, and by then Harbaugh is going to

54:05

be in the NFL and Michigan's going to get whatever they get in twenty twenty

54:08

four. But even from talking with some people on within the Gopher a football

54:14

building. I mean, there's a lot of speculation now, and it's easy

54:17

to grasp at these straws. But on the first drive from Minnesota, they

54:22

were using signals, and if you go back and watch the play, that

54:25

corner breaks before eight and even throws the ball. And so now they're got

54:30

their minds wrapped up all that, and so then they switched to if you'll

54:34

notice eight and then has a wristband the rest of the game. Yeah,

54:37

one, As I told you, I mean, there was rumblings about this from what I've heard going back to the Northwestern game, that the Michigan thing

54:43

was coming down everybody. I mean, we talked about the the the Chiano

54:49

stuff, you know when they were playing at the big House that was the

54:51

Northwestern weekend. Yeah, there was the thing. Everybody was in on this

54:55

deal. And here's one thing that just drives me insane that I'm so sick

55:00

of hearing about. And I heard it again this morning. I think it

55:04

was RG three on Greene Show saying now he to his credit, says if

55:09

Michigan broke rules, they should face penalties. But I've seen this too many

55:14

times before that he said, I honestly don't think sign stealing is that big

55:17

of a deal, and it doesn't give that big of an advantage. And

55:22

I've heard this so many times and I just want to scream into the ether,

55:25

to use Ryan Burns's beloved parlance, that doesn't matter. You have rules

55:32

that you all agree on. They are sending this clown or his people to

55:38

big ten stadiums all over the Upper Midwest, well now coast to coast.

55:43

You're sending them to Georgia like they are actively cheating. They're doing something they're

55:47

not allowed to do. We can't just go. But how much does that

55:52

really help? And then Dominique Foxworth, to his credit, goes, if

55:54

you know what the play is, it helps, dude. Well, I'm

55:58

just so sick of that. While ian steeling is really not that big a deal if you can do it on the field, no, it's about a

56:02

systematic, literally going around every possible rule. It's ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous

56:09

that anybody would try to even defend this for a minute or say that it's

56:13

not that big a deal. Well, I mean, he obviously knows more about football than I do. But if it's not that big a deal?

56:19

Then why are they doing it? Why are they having this elaborate of a

56:21

thing correct to get that? I mean, it obviously is a big deal. It obviously and it's obviously elaborate because this is so expansive at this point,

56:28

it obviously helps them or they wouldn't be doing it, they wouldn't risk

56:31

all this what they put themselves into. So I can't believe it doesn't matter.

56:36

I mean, if you know what a team's gonna run, how does that not help you? Does this finally force the NCAA in twenty twenty four

56:45

to have the green dot and the helmet? It might? And that bothers me too, because it's also like, because that's the other thing, is

56:50

well we should have this already. Sure, maybe that's not the discussion.

56:52

Discussion right now is cheating? Yep. And I'm a romantic enough to believe

56:58

that competition is supposed to be fair, especially actually football. I know where

57:00

it's me versus you, it's R eleven versus your eleven and everything on,

57:06

especially at Michigan where your Michigan men and you're honorable and blah blah blah.

57:09

Like that's what really bothers me is I'm a romantic enough to believe that competition

57:14

is just supposed to be fair, equitable, finish beat me. That's it.

57:17

I mean, that's what sports are supposed to be about. Well,

57:21

I do agree with Burnsy that I wonder if Michigan's gonna try to muddy the

57:23

waters enough with their defense. They push this off until they can try to

57:27

win a national title, and then Harball will go away. Right, You're

57:30

in the off season, and then twenty twenty four, Michigan is going to be We'll see Harbau. Harbaugh won't be there, McCarthy won't be there.

57:37

They'll they'll still be Michigan. I'm not saying that they won't be, but

57:42

there's going to be sanctions from this time. Will be at the Big House

57:45

next year. I think we go to the Big House next year. You're right. I just if anybody's looking for immediate resolution within forty eight hours of

57:52

this podcast, if and when the Big Ten tries to suspend Harbaugh for two

57:58

games, Michigan's gonna counter this thing's gonna get caught up in the course the

58:00

legal system, and he's going to be there through the bowl games. Yeah,

58:05

national championship games. If they can get through Penn State this weekend and

58:07

then Ohio State in a few weeks. But then in the new Big Ten

58:12

commission, you have to do something when you have everybody else, Yeah,

58:15

thirteen other schools screaming at you to do something. You can't be like,

58:19

nah, I'm gonna let this play out. Well, because I've heard also

58:22

you gotta let the process play out, and I would say yes. However,

58:25

it's also been like a month, So what are we waiting for here?

58:29

And I think that's the Big Tens? The other coaches and a wins.

58:31

When do we do something? Yeah, because because it is true,

58:36

I mean, you don't want to set a precedent. We'll just suspend you

58:39

because we think something went wrong, like you do have to have because let's

58:43

say, let's say all of this is it's a one man show and nobody knew anything, and let's just say hypothetically, yeah, okay, like that,

58:51

that's what I do understand that point of it of let's not jump to

58:54

any conclusions. But I would also counter and say, we've been talking about

58:59

this for a month now. It should be pretty easy to figure out who

59:01

did what and guess what if Michigan's not cooperating, then that's all I need

59:05

to know. If you're not going to cooperate with my investigation and I can't talk to this guy and I can't talk to Coach Harbor about it, then

59:10

sorry, you have to cooperate with us or I am suspending. And you

59:14

know, darn will every school that's played him has provided evidence or information to

59:19

the Big Ten and like, this is what this He got tickets here if

59:22

you have a video of him. It took seven minutes for us to know that thirteen of the fourteen schools had this guy in their table. You know,

59:28

he talked to all of them. Yes, so it shouldn't take that

59:31

long to figure this out. So that's where I think there. I agree

59:35

you can't just go do this, but I agree with the coaches and the

59:38

athletics directors that are saying, what are we doing about this? Yeah,

59:42

because it's obvious this is something that was not on the up and up that

59:45

nobody else is doing. That's the other thing. A lot of people steal

59:47

signs, not like this. Now with a quasi Navy seal who has a

59:52

sixty a six hundred page Michigan manifesto I mean, this guy's a s shows

59:57

up on Central. That's the other thing. Believe he just shows up like

1:00:00

he's just a spy. Or the former wide receivers coach head coach Jim McIlwain

1:00:06

maybe helped him out and the science Steeler just showed up. Have you ever

1:00:08

tried to get on the college football sideline? That's that whole part. The

1:00:12

whole Central Michigan thing is wild. On a Friday night, Labor Day weekend.

1:00:15

Ad he's got to sign off on it. The head coaches got to

1:00:17

sign off on a visiting bench pass. I don't even get a visiting bench

1:00:22

pass. And I can stand on the visiting bench just because I know the people, but I don't have that pass. Like those things are coveted and

1:00:28

hard to get, and you know, stay up there five feet from the

1:00:30

head coach in the gear in conspicuous sunglasses. This whole thing is preposterous.

1:00:36

I just want to talk to the guy. I mostly I want the investigation

1:00:39

because I want to know. I want to know more about it is going

1:00:44

to be incredible. It's got to be like five parts. It's gonna be

1:00:46

a Netflix documentary. I watched them. Did you watch the one where the

1:00:50

people that rigged the McDonald's monopoly deal no like to win the million dollars like

1:00:54

twenty years ago. I never finished it. I need to go back and

1:00:58

see what happened. But that was like a ten part and they had to

1:01:00

get the FBI involved, and it was intricate because those things were under lock

1:01:04

and key. Yeah, you know the millionaire little you know things that you

1:01:06

pulled off your twenty ounce coke man. All right, anything else? This

1:01:09

has been a lively fun Yeah, this has been good. Anything else?

1:01:13

We need to discuss, Perdue. Can you give us a sixty second snapshot? You're you're the best preview guy here because you do and by that I

1:01:20

mean you do the most work out. Well, this is your role.

1:01:24

You work for Gopher, ill I know you need to do all these things.

1:01:29

Purdue's last four in a row, but they've got a couple of pretty

1:01:31

good ed rushers. It's eighty percent the same defense from last week. Because

1:01:36

remember Ryan Walters was the Illinois defensive coordinator last year. He runs the thing

1:01:40

at Purdue. Uh. They got a pretty good passing quarterback for Chip and

1:01:44

Hudson Card who's probably the most gifted of the big ten passers. I mean

1:01:50

it to me, it's just to you guys's point. I guess they're at

1:01:52

home. Which Minnesota team shows up. Minnesota struggled against a good passing quarterback

1:01:59

as we've seen, so we'll see if the pass rush can get home,

1:02:01

and if not, there goes any chance at Indianapolis. Well, you know

1:02:06

we've missed Chips Coggins the last few weeks. We've also missed Darius Taylor.

1:02:10

Remember him, like, is what do we think? Is he going to

1:02:14

play? Is he going to be around? I mean, he'd be nice.

1:02:20

It'd be nice to have a guy like that back, especially with Look

1:02:23

the Jordan Nuban story is great. Yes, and Zach Evans played last week.

1:02:27

I still think he's banged up, but having someone like Darius Taylor back

1:02:32

certainly helps. Re h anything, do you think we've heard anything? Well,

1:02:38

you you hear stuff. I know you're not going to get it from

1:02:42

the head. I think he's going to be back sooner than later. But

1:02:45

the question is is sooner perdue or are they just going to save him for

1:02:47

the Wisconsin game at that point? Man, I hope it's Purdue. It's

1:02:52

November, Burns. I hope I get three games left. Yeah, yeah,

1:02:59

because he he'd be helpful because there's some well, especially because you get

1:03:01

Brevin showing a pulse. Yeah, Daniel Jackson continuing to ball out. So

1:03:06

right, it'd be nice to see the full offense, or at least what

1:03:10

we have, what they have. Correct. All right, Well, good

1:03:14

show, guys, Good to see both of you. Anybody going to Purdue

1:03:16

you're not going, You're not going? All right, Well that's my role.

1:03:21

I'll be there. I will be there. I don't know what the weather is. Nothing like West Lafaietta on November Saturday. Nothing. People ask

1:03:28

me excited about La and Washington and Eugene. Sure, am you want to

1:03:34

talk about the Big ten West. I've been through it now for almost a

1:03:37

decade. I think we've had the West started with legends and leaders. The

1:03:40

West has been for a minute now. So I've taken enough tours through the

1:03:45

Big ten West. I'm ready to check out the Big ten West West, if that makes sense. Rose Bowl October twelfth. Yeah, we got the

1:03:51

schedule. We'll talk about that maybe next week. Yeah, because there's some interesting nuggets there as well. All right, he's Chips Goggins he's Ryan Burns.

1:03:58

I'm justin guard. Thanks everybody for listening, and please tell a go

1:04:00

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1:04:05

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1:04:11

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1:04:15

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1:04:17

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1:04:19

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