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1:10

From outside magazine? This

1:12

is the outside podcast.

1:20

I didn't want my boyfriend to come down and

1:22

see me putting a piece of chicken

1:24

in my mouth, so I went into our pantry

1:27

and I stood there in the dark. And

1:29

ate a few pieces of my just

1:31

blackened charred chicken and

1:34

honestly felt a little weepy about it because

1:36

I was like, I can't believe

1:38

I'm doing this. I'm Marian

1:40

Larsson, and the shame ridden chicken

1:42

eater you've just heard is outside

1:45

assistant editor, food correspondent, running

1:48

enthusiast, and newly former

1:50

vegetarian, Mallory Arnold.

1:53

And the path that brought her to

1:55

that recent moment, sitting in

1:57

a dark closet secretly choking

1:59

down overcooked poultry began

2:01

eight years ago. I went vegetarian

2:03

when I was around seventeen. I

2:06

was so uneducated. It was just sort

2:08

of a I wanna get healthy

2:11

and that's the thing to do is to go

2:13

vegetarian. So I

2:15

did that with cold turkey just right

2:17

away. It was not hard for me because I

2:19

really didn't eat a lot of meat to begin with.

2:21

Mallory jumped into vegetarianism in

2:24

pursuit of vague ideas she had

2:26

about its potential health benefits. And

2:28

not much else. But

2:30

over the next few years, she would dive

2:32

into research about why other people

2:35

were choosing to forgo meet. Eventually

2:37

leading her to a strong set of personal

2:39

beliefs that valued protecting animals

2:42

and the environment, and

2:44

which fit perfectly with her meat free

2:46

lifestyle. It kind of led me to

2:49

really have this distressed in the

2:51

farming industry as a whole and

2:53

how treatment of animals is

2:55

and what it does to the environment. And I just

2:57

really couldn't align myself with that, so that's

3:00

why I continued with it up until

3:02

about six months ago. That's when

3:04

Mallory's vegetarianism came up

3:07

against another great passion in

3:09

her life. And perhaps

3:11

the only thing that could derail her

3:13

long held plant based ideals

3:16

running. A few years ago, I started

3:18

doing long distance runs got

3:20

into half marathons. And then

3:22

full marathons, you learn

3:24

once you run your first marathon that it's not

3:26

really something you should continue to do if

3:28

you're doing it. Like, a basically and,

3:30

you know, no plans, no

3:32

training schedules. You're not honed in on your

3:34

nutrition because it recovery is

3:36

really difficult. And I learned that

3:39

really quickly. She learned her

3:41

hardest lessons when she started trying to

3:43

improve her times and her endurance.

3:46

Her training was sapping all her

3:48

energy, and she was struggling

3:50

to regain it afterwards. Always do

3:52

long runs on Sundays when I'm training for a

3:54

race. After my long runs consistently,

3:57

I would come back and just pass

3:59

out on the floor. It was like a scheduled

4:01

thing. I wouldn't faint, but I would, you

4:03

know, spread ego on the carpet and just go

4:06

to sleep for a good hour. There's no way

4:08

around it. It just happened every single

4:10

time. It just was not a good situation.

4:12

Mallory knew that about

4:14

what she was putting in her body to fuel herself

4:17

for her runs or how she was

4:19

trying to rest afterwards wasn't

4:21

cutting it. She just wasn't

4:23

sure what. I I mean, I tried everything.

4:25

I was drinking water with

4:27

Himalayan pink salt. I was

4:29

eating particular foods that I

4:31

knew would get me carbs really quick.

4:33

Even one tip was, like, to sleep diagonally

4:36

in the bed for some reason because it was good

4:38

for your legs. Finally, Valerie's

4:40

coach told her that her chronic post

4:43

run crashes might be due

4:45

to a lack of protein in her

4:47

diet. As a vegetarian, she

4:49

was eating tofu, seitan, tempeh,

4:51

and egg whites in an attempt to

4:53

make up for a lack of animal protein.

4:56

For many vegetarians and vegans, these

4:58

substitutions are enough to keep their

5:00

bodies running smoothly, but

5:03

all bodies are different. And for Mallory,

5:05

it just wasn't working. So

5:08

her coach very delicately suggested

5:10

that maybe she should try

5:12

eating meat again. For the first time

5:14

in eight years. She definitely didn't

5:16

want to push me to that because I don't

5:18

think she'd wanted to urge me to do

5:20

anything that would break like, my

5:22

morals or whatever, but it definitely was

5:24

talked about, like, it could be

5:26

this. I'm not saying it is, but it could

5:28

be a problem with your recovery and you're not

5:30

getting the essential proteins that you need.

5:33

So eating meat was the literally the last

5:35

resort because I I did not intend on

5:37

ever going back. But eventually

5:39

it was kind of like you've tried everything else and

5:41

running is super important to me.

5:43

So maybe you should try this because it's the

5:45

one thing you haven't done. Even

5:47

though it made sense, Mallory

5:50

was still reluctant. I didn't

5:52

want to believe that I

5:54

would do this but I was so desperate to

5:56

the point where this would never be a consideration

5:59

if I hadn't tried everything else.

6:01

And it really kind of brought me back to

6:03

my why, why I wasn't eating

6:05

meat, and I figured

6:07

if I could do it responsibly

6:09

and educate myself on what

6:12

options there are to eat meat sustainably

6:14

without going into the factory farming.

6:16

I thought it would be okay, but there still

6:18

was a a terrible

6:20

regret and a terrible guilt that I

6:22

felt. I was kind of embarrassed

6:25

because for for so

6:27

long, I'd been like a proponent of being

6:30

a vegetarian and how great it was and

6:32

how, like, sustainable it was and good for the

6:34

environment and then here I was kinda going back

6:36

on that. The guilt weighed so

6:38

heavily on malory that

6:40

her first foray back into omnivoreism

6:43

forced her literally into

6:45

a closet. So I went ahead

6:47

and bought chicken just secretly I

6:49

live with my boyfriend and I did not tell him

6:51

where I was going in the middle of the day.

6:53

What I was doing kind of snuck

6:55

out and brought it back to the

6:57

kitchen and just chart it

6:59

to pieces. It just completely

7:02

obliterated that chicken because I've never

7:04

cooked chicken my myself. When I

7:06

was, you know, seventeen, I wasn't making

7:08

my own meals, so I didn't know what I was doing.

7:10

And I wanted to make sure I didn't get Manila.

7:13

So I just chart it to to black.

7:15

And then because I still felt

7:17

that, like, extreme embarrassment

7:19

and and and shame. I didn't want

7:21

my boyfriend to come down and see me

7:24

putting a piece of chicken in my mouth. So I

7:26

went into our pantry and

7:28

I stood there in the and ate

7:30

a few pieces of my just

7:32

blackened charred chicken and

7:34

honestly felt a little weepy about it

7:36

because I was like, I can't

7:38

believe I'm doing this. It was in

7:40

this dark moment, but

7:42

Mallory finally realized, it

7:45

didn't have to be this way. Many

7:48

people out there eat meat, and

7:50

they actually enjoy it. She

7:52

didn't have to do this alone. I

7:54

need help. I need help doing this. I

7:56

can't be eating my chicken in the dark for

7:58

the rest of my life. So, Mallory

8:01

reached out to some of the meat eaters in her

8:03

life to help her design a training land

8:05

that would bring home the bacon. We'll

8:07

hear all about it after the break.

8:12

If

8:15

you're not already, a subscriber to

8:17

outside plus, now is a great

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about all the benefits of a subscription

8:57

to outside plus at outside

9:00

all line dot com slash pod

9:02

plus. Outside plus, the

9:04

one subscription to fuel all

9:06

of your adventures. After

9:12

eight years of a vegetarian diet,

9:15

runner Mallory Arnold was ready to beef

9:17

up her nutrition. But to

9:19

preserve her conscience and her

9:21

taste buds, she wanted to know

9:23

exactly where that meat was coming

9:25

from and how the heck to cook

9:27

it. Luckily, Mallory's

9:29

boss is kind of the perfect

9:31

person to ask for help on a project like

9:33

this. I'm Mary Frances

9:35

Heck. And I'm the senior brand

9:37

director for food and health

9:39

at outside. I'm a

9:41

classically trained chef. I've

9:44

done butchery in restaurants and

9:46

in test kitchens for meat and for fish.

9:49

And I

9:51

think it was probably when I was breaking down

9:53

a really big fish early in my career

9:55

that I really understood. I mean, this is an animal.

9:57

This was a a creature that

9:59

lived a life. And you

10:03

start to approach animal

10:05

protein consumption with

10:07

the reference. For me

10:09

and my nutritional needs, I

10:11

do feel like I need

10:14

animal protein to feel healthy.

10:16

But I personally am

10:19

married to someone who doesn't

10:21

consume meat. And when we

10:23

met, she was actually almost

10:25

a vegan. So I

10:28

rarely cook meat at home. Unless

10:31

it is a very high quality piece

10:33

of meat and it's like a Sunday

10:35

separate type of thing.

10:36

Mallory told her charred closet chicken story

10:39

to Mary Francis, who was

10:41

to put it mildly

10:42

horrified. She, like,

10:44

had put it in a hot oven for,

10:46

like, an hour. With

10:49

no salt on it. And she was like, it

10:51

really wasn't very good. I was

10:53

like, oh, I can

10:55

imagine how bad that was.

10:57

The tricky thing was that she hadn't eaten

11:00

meat in a number of

11:02

years. And

11:04

she had sort

11:06

of missed the point of life where

11:08

you learned how to cook meat for

11:10

herself and had no idea where to

11:12

start. I care about sustainability a lot. I

11:14

think nutrition is very important, but I

11:17

am most motivated by

11:18

deliciousness. And I

11:21

want to eat the most delicious things

11:24

available Mary Francis wanted

11:26

the same for Mallory, so she

11:28

planned a day long farm to table

11:30

excursion. Both to help

11:32

Mallory quell her anxiety about eating

11:34

animals and to teach her how

11:36

to get at least some flavor

11:38

and enjoyment of the whole

11:39

experience. Mallory and I met up in

11:41

Nashville, and we were able

11:43

to go

11:45

visit bear creek farm

11:47

where they're raising some of the highest quality

11:49

meat in the southeast. And

11:51

we were able to follow

11:54

the path couple

11:56

of animals post slaughter to

11:59

a butcher shop where they're doing whole animal

12:01

butchering. And then

12:03

from there, go to Henry

12:05

Red and work with chef Julia

12:07

Sullivan to cook the steak. And so we

12:09

were able to follow that

12:12

path along and appreciate the

12:14

sacrifice the animal from the beginning to the

12:16

end. I think it's really important for

12:18

consumers of me to see

12:20

that full cycle. And

12:22

to understand that eating

12:25

meat is not a good or an evil.

12:27

Humans are designed as omnivores. And

12:30

most humans will consume animal

12:32

protein and there's a healthy way to do

12:34

that both for the environment and for

12:36

their bodies. When

12:37

the day came to see how the sausage

12:39

gets made, Mallory was

12:41

more than a little apprehensive. Initially

12:44

in my mind, when I thought of

12:46

a farm that produced meat for

12:48

consumption. I immediately thought of a

12:50

farmer being a very unpassionate cold,

12:55

maybe a little bit. I I just had this

12:57

evil image in my mind after years of

12:59

just being a vegetarian. It was

13:01

completely incorrect, obviously. The

13:03

owners of Bear Creek Farm, Lianne

13:05

and Bill Sherry quickly proved

13:07

her wrong. The way Lianne

13:10

specifically talked and

13:12

expressed her feelings about

13:14

these animals was so different

13:16

than I thought it would be. Here's

13:18

Leanne. Talking about one of her

13:20

dearly departed Boris Earl who

13:22

sired hundreds of piglets on the farm.

13:24

I could just lay down, like, you know, snuggle

13:26

with him and he was just so

13:28

tame. In Wilson's like that. You snuggled

13:30

with Earl. Oh, yeah. Really?

13:32

Yeah. That's what I need to hear. Like, I know

13:34

those factory farms are not smuggling with

13:36

our boys, you know. I

13:39

mean, it's a family farmer. We

13:41

got close. She showed

13:43

us the cows in the past year

13:46

these rolling lush green

13:48

hills where these cows were grazing

13:50

and just really enjoying their

13:52

lives. Which was totally different

13:54

from what I thought I was gonna see. And then

13:56

she led us to her pigs,

13:59

which she talked about, like, they

14:01

were her own children. They're treated like

14:03

loyalty up until the very end.

14:06

And just the way she talked about how much she

14:08

loves her animals and how

14:10

thankful and grateful she

14:12

is for what they sacrificed

14:14

for them to have their livelihood.

14:16

It it it was really moving. For

14:18

Mallory, visiting the farm was

14:20

a surprisingly warm and

14:22

fuzzy experience. But

14:24

Mary Francis was practical about the

14:26

whole thing, in part because she knew

14:28

exactly what was coming next. They're

14:29

really cute and really sweet, but also, you

14:32

know, understandable that these are

14:34

domesticated animals that

14:36

are intended ultimately to

14:38

grow to a certain size and

14:40

then be humanely slaughtered

14:43

and and become meat for

14:44

consumption. And then went right to

14:46

the butchery, which is a a jarring

14:49

experience. Bear Bone's

14:51

butcher in Nashville is a animal

14:53

shop managed by Kyle Colvard.

14:55

As shocking as it could be

14:57

for Mallory to see an entire side

14:59

of pork being butchered after

15:01

having just watched happy piglets

15:03

playing in their pen, Mary

15:06

Francis knew that visiting a whole animal

15:08

butcher was important. For showing

15:10

Mallory the most ethical path to

15:12

meat

15:12

eating. The the important thing about whole

15:14

animal butchery is that it is

15:16

a sustainable way of harvesting

15:20

and serving meat. Now think

15:22

about like the Super Bowl pack

15:24

of jumbo wings. That is not a

15:26

sustainable way to serve meat. Like, every chicken

15:28

only has two wings. So you

15:30

buy fifty of them. What the

15:32

heck happened to the rest of the chicken? All

15:34

these animals are broken up into their

15:36

different parts, and then they're all sold

15:38

separately. And unfortunately, consumer

15:41

preferences and supply and demand don't

15:43

support the even

15:45

consumption of whole animals. And

15:47

so we end up with low grade

15:49

products where the thing that

15:51

would be the most healthy is if a

15:53

butcher takes a whole animal, knowledgeably

15:55

breaks it down into cuts

15:58

that can be cooked in

16:00

specific ways and then educates the consumer

16:02

how to cook

16:02

them. So Mallory

16:04

got to go and see that process. He

16:06

brought out a massive half slab

16:09

of pig that I just was not

16:11

anticipating at all and kind of throws it

16:13

on the table and says, like, ask

16:15

away. I'm just gonna go through and carve

16:17

the pig and show you what we

16:19

do and explain the steps you

16:21

step by step. And after I got over

16:23

the initial shock, it was

16:25

really actually quite fascinating. And

16:27

this is coming from someone who couldn't even

16:29

look at

16:30

like, a chicken breast in the

16:32

past because I got nauseous. It's

16:34

done properly. It's done well.

16:37

Yeah. Bigger on the Yeah.

16:43

It honestly was impressive of

16:45

how much of the animal that they were

16:47

using because you could see the

16:49

meat that he was gonna, you know, toss and

16:51

the meat that he was gonna keep. And the

16:54

toss pile was it

16:56

was nothing. Nothing went to waste. And I

16:58

I really appreciated that. And I think Bear Creek

17:00

Farm would appreciate that too just

17:02

because it's it's like so much energy and

17:04

time goes into these animals and and to

17:06

respect the animal like that by making

17:09

sure nothing goes to waste is

17:11

I just thought that was really neat and I had

17:13

no idea that that happened. Even

17:15

after having met the animals coming under

17:17

Kyle's knife, Mallory

17:20

found that actually seeing the butchering happen was

17:22

oddly comforting. It kind of

17:24

like cemented my feelings of,

17:26

okay, this is right.

17:29

This is okay to do. They're at

17:31

the whole process. I still was kind of holding on to

17:33

a little bit of guilt, especially after

17:35

seeing the animals in person

17:37

and seeing how happy they were and their

17:40

lives on the farm. But

17:42

then, you know, it it goes back to

17:44

the appreciation of the animal

17:46

and being thankful that

17:49

it's a source of sustainment,

17:51

and I really appreciated the respect

17:53

that they gave. And afterwards, I

17:56

felt okay. I felt like kind of at peace with

17:58

that. That piece came at the

18:00

perfect time because

18:02

Mallory's next stop, a cooking

18:04

lesson and tasting with chef Julia Sullivan

18:06

at Nashville's Henrietta Red

18:08

was about to raise the

18:10

stakes

18:10

literally. Julia's one of my

18:12

favorite chefs in the country and she

18:14

walked the Mallory into her kitchen

18:17

and cooked up one of these steaks for her

18:19

from Bear Creek farm. She

18:21

kinda went through the process of cooking a

18:23

steak step by step with me and then

18:25

I got to try the

18:28

steak my first day since

18:30

I was seventeen. The chefs

18:32

were preparing everything for dinner that night.

18:34

It was bustling and and

18:36

here I was just having this very, like, existential crisis in

18:38

the middle of everything. Like, I'm about to eat

18:40

a cow. Am I gonna do this? But

18:43

it looks so good. And

18:45

then when I had it was delicious. Oh my

18:48

god. I've been doing it wrong.

18:50

Oh my god. That is so good.

18:53

I feel bad, but this is so good.

18:55

But I know where it came from and I

18:57

feel good about that. So it was a lot of

18:59

feelings mixed with like banging

19:01

pots and and chef shouting

19:03

things in the background. It was it was

19:05

beautiful. Sure.

19:09

Taking a bite of your first steak in almost

19:11

a decade, which just happens to

19:13

come from a cow that was treated like

19:15

royalty in life, humanely

19:18

slaughtered and respectfully butchered and

19:20

then cooked by one of the best chefs in

19:22

the country is an enlightening experience.

19:26

But the real question is, did it convince Mallory

19:28

to come out of the meat eating closet once

19:30

and for all? We'd say like at least

19:32

once a day I'm eating some

19:35

kind of meat. I

19:37

go down to our Nashville

19:39

Farmers Market and I have

19:42

learned a few different ways to prepare chicken breast,

19:44

and I think I'm pretty

19:46

good at it now. I don't wanna like pat

19:48

myself on the back or anything, but it's

19:50

edible. And it's it's good enough for my

19:52

boyfriend to eat, so I would say that's

19:54

a win. After seeing the care that

19:56

went into every step, of bringing Bear

19:58

Creek Farms animals to the table. She

20:01

knows that's the model of meat

20:03

eating she wants to follow.

20:06

Mallory isn't just an omnivore

20:08

now. She's a locivore, sourcing her

20:10

meat entirely from local

20:12

farmers because she wants to know that

20:14

every single animal is raised the

20:16

way that stake at Henrietta

20:18

Red was. Not everyone

20:20

can afford to buy expensive local

20:22

meats. But if eating

20:24

higher quality products means that Mallory

20:26

eats less meat than she would otherwise,

20:29

that's okay with her. Most importantly

20:31

to Mallory, just two months after

20:33

her dietary switch, she started to

20:35

see improvements to her recovery after

20:38

those long runs. I

20:40

did run a half marathon in

20:42

these smoky mountains and I

20:45

can't speak on for sure if

20:47

it was due to the eating

20:49

the meat, but I did feel exponentially

20:52

better after my

20:54

race. I did not ass out.

20:56

I did not feel that kind

20:58

of exhaustion that just follows

21:00

a really tough race. Obviously,

21:02

my legs were tired. Your whole

21:04

body is tired. But it sick feeling.

21:07

So that was a plus sign

21:09

for me and kind of a a little bit

21:11

of an encouragement to keep going.

21:14

And see what other benefits

21:16

I may reap in the future. You're not

21:18

regularly passing out after your Sunday

21:21

runs anymore. And not? No. It's the

21:23

strangest thing. I I have so much time. I have like

21:25

another hour in my day because I'm not

21:27

passed out on the floor. And

21:29

Mallory has finally extinguished

21:32

the last little bit of her

21:34

lingering guilt about her lifestyle change.

21:36

I was really worried about what my little

21:38

sister was gonna think. My little sister has been

21:40

a hardcore vegan for

21:43

as long as I was a vegetarian and she

21:45

really believes in it and I just really

21:47

didn't want her to think of me differently and I just

21:49

had it in my head. That

21:51

she going So when I finally admitted, you

21:54

know, I was eating meat again to

21:56

try to help my recovery issues

21:58

with running her initial reaction was

22:00

immediately, yay. Oh, I'm so happy

22:02

you're trying to solve that. I know

22:04

how much you've been struggling and

22:06

how much you wanna run and she was

22:08

super happy for me, which honestly

22:11

made me cry. Mallory

22:13

believes that eating some meat is the right

22:15

thing for her body. And

22:17

the whole experience has given her

22:19

a new perspective on nutrition. This

22:21

is such a personal

22:23

journey and personal to me

22:25

and my health and my

22:28

running, and that doesn't mean

22:30

that runners need

22:32

meat. Or if you fall like a vegan

22:34

lifestyle, you can't run long

22:36

distances. Nothing like that. If anything, I've

22:38

learned that nutrition is so personal and I've

22:40

always known that but going through it

22:42

firsthand, it just definitely cemented that idea

22:44

that, like, it's not a one size fits all and

22:46

everyone has to follow their

22:48

different journeys. There may not be

22:50

one right way to eat meat or

22:53

not eat meat. But

22:55

there's definitely a wrong way to

22:57

do

22:57

it. Once you get a taste of really

22:59

great quality meat, you you can't

23:02

go back to the factory farm

23:03

stuff. You can't go back to the factory farm stuff

23:05

that you like burned to a crisp

23:07

and then eight o'clock at either side.

23:11

Thank you

23:13

to Mallory Arnold for sharing her

23:15

story with us. And to Mary

23:17

Francis Heck for her guidance and

23:20

expertise. You can read Mallory's writing

23:22

about her journey at outside

23:24

online dot com slash

23:26

food. This episode was

23:28

written and produced by me, Marin Larson,

23:30

and edited by Michael Roberts,

23:33

music and mixing by

23:35

Robbie Carver. Listener, if you

23:37

have a story about a big lifestyle

23:39

change that you'd like to tell,

23:41

record it as a voice memo, and

23:43

email it to us at podcast at

23:45

outsideinc dot com. And

23:47

if you enjoyed this episode, leave us

23:49

a review wherever you listen, or

23:51

tell your local butcher about it.

23:53

The outside podcast is made

23:56

possible by our outside plus

23:58

members. Learn about the many benefits of

24:00

membership and join us at outside

24:02

online dot com slash

24:05

pod plus.