0:00

Up next out Loud what Gianno

0:02

called well part of the guich. The

0:05

journey of Weldon Angelo's from an up

0:07

and coming music producer to a

0:10

new face of criminal justice reform wasn't

0:12

pretty. In fact, it was

0:14

cruel, torturous, and

0:17

included a fifty five year prison sentence.

0:20

It also included a full pardon

0:22

from the one President Donald

0:24

J. Trump. Today we hear Weldon's

0:27

story. This is Outlined with Gianno

0:29

Caldwell. Welcome

0:40

back to Outline with Gianno Caldwell. I'm

0:43

Gianno Caldwell and I have a really

0:45

interesting and fascinating show this week.

0:48

My guests is someone with a remarkable

0:50

life story that would make for a Hollywood script.

0:53

His name is Weldon Angelos. I'll

0:56

save most of the details for our conversation,

0:58

but to give you a basic review. In

1:00

the early two thousands, Angelo's

1:03

was a young and promising hip

1:05

hop producer. He had a budding

1:07

new record label, Extravagant Records,

1:10

and was on his way to the top. But

1:13

then Angelo sold a few hundred

1:15

dollars worth of cannabis also

1:17

known as marijuana weed to a police informant

1:20

over multiple transactions,

1:22

and everything went downhill. Angelos

1:25

had no prior criminal record, but

1:27

because the informant said Angelos had a firearms

1:30

strap to his ankle, he was sentenced

1:32

to fifty five years in prison. Federal

1:34

law made fifty five years

1:37

the minimum sentence allowed,

1:40

even though this was the first time marijuana offense.

1:43

Eventually, after well

1:45

over a decade in prison, Angelo's

1:48

was released in twenty things to a

1:50

major bipartisan effort, and

1:52

then last year President Trump fully

1:55

pardoned him. Today, Angelos

1:57

is the new face of criminal

1:59

justice reform, especially cannabis related

2:01

issues. I'll ask him about what he

2:03

went through, what he's doing now, and

2:06

his work where President Trump on criminal justice reform.

2:09

Let's go. Well, then, I'm really

2:11

excited to have you on out loud what Giano

2:13

called. Well, we've been talking about cannabis,

2:16

uh, in terms of on television,

2:18

radio media. The country has been

2:20

talking about it for quite a while, and

2:23

your story, I think is one which

2:25

is one of the most fascinating I've heard. I learned

2:28

about it many many years ago,

2:30

probably about four years ago, when you were released from jail,

2:32

when Senator Mike Lee of

2:34

Utah, actually I believe he wrote an op

2:37

add on it. So I wanna

2:39

just start off the conversation before we

2:41

dig into cannabis the

2:44

criminal justice reform aspect of

2:46

it. I wanted to have you take

2:48

my listeners through your life story and what happened

2:51

to you. Tell us about what life

2:53

was like before you were arrested and ultimately

2:55

sentenced to prison in two thousand and

2:57

four. Yeah, so um

2:59

for that, I would say. Back going back

3:01

to around nineties ninety six, I started

3:04

working on a career in the music industry.

3:07

UM. I had, um,

3:09

somehow made my way into the hip

3:11

hop world. UM with a lot

3:13

of the folks silver at Death Row Records, including

3:16

Snoop Dogg's group The Dog Pound

3:19

and two pops group Outlaws,

3:21

And a few years after that, I

3:23

ended up founding my own record label, and

3:26

Snoop Dogg, you know, gave me an opportunity

3:28

to produce some music with him. Ended

3:30

up at his house making some records and producing

3:32

a whole album with Snoop, And

3:35

you know, my career just sort of took off from there,

3:37

and I started working with some of the biggest names in

3:40

the industry, and I sort

3:42

of put myself in the crosshairs

3:44

of the of the federal government. Um.

3:46

You know, back in my hometown of Salt Lake

3:49

City, Utah, where I was bringing

3:51

you know, Snoop and mac dray and all

3:53

the people I was working with, you know, to do

3:55

shows and and just kind of opened up the scene

3:57

there, and uh, you know,

4:00

it was something that was kind of new, you know, to

4:02

that to that town at the time, and

4:04

so the authorities thought there must be something

4:06

going on here, you know, outside of music,

4:08

and so they sent a confidential

4:11

informant to come try to you

4:13

know, see what was going on. And you know, really

4:15

all it was was making records and smoking

4:18

cannabis, UM, And so the informants

4:21

decided to buy some of the cannabis

4:23

and it was just like a few hundred dollars worth on

4:25

three occasions, was nothing,

4:27

no profit made. It was just like here

4:29

you go, UM. And the

4:32

federal government attempted to you

4:34

know, get guns and coke and meth,

4:37

and you know that wasn't what was happening. You know,

4:39

we were just making music and and you know,

4:41

smoking cannabis and UM. When

4:43

they realized that they weren't going to get anything

4:46

else, they indicted me Um

4:49

on a few counts, hoping that that

4:51

would lead to enough pressure to

4:53

bring down people in hip hop. And

4:56

when it didn't and we laughed at them

4:58

for what they were trying to do, they

5:00

secured superseding indictments where

5:03

they ended up turning these three cannabis

5:05

charges, you know, worth nine dollars

5:08

total into a twenty count federal

5:10

indictment where I'm facing a hundred years

5:13

of mandatory imprisonment. Um

5:16

because of you know, how how the

5:18

case you know, initially started.

5:21

Um, you know, there was really no trust

5:24

for me and my attorneys and on their end, and

5:26

so you know, it forced a trial and

5:28

I you know, once some counts but lost

5:30

most of them, ended up with the fifty five year

5:33

sentence. The sentence was so

5:35

extreme even the sentencing judge,

5:38

who was a very conservative George W.

5:40

Bush appointee, UM, that caused

5:42

him to balk at the sentence and um,

5:45

you know, question the legitimacy

5:48

of the system and of the prosecutor's

5:50

charging decisions. And so he

5:53

actually called on the president that appointed

5:55

him to pardon me. As he was

5:58

handing down the sentence. He

6:00

said, you know, my hands are tied. I can't do anything,

6:02

but this sentence is cruel, unjustin irrational,

6:05

and so I call him the president to you

6:07

know, commute the sentence. UM.

6:09

And then a few years later he stepped down, he

6:11

stepped down from office, became my chief advocate,

6:14

and other people joined, other

6:17

people joined his chorus. You know, we had a

6:19

Janet Reno, who was the attorney general for Bill

6:22

Clinton. We had a hundred

6:24

and something you know, former federal judges,

6:26

former federal prosecutors, um,

6:29

and then a former prosecutor in that

6:31

office who didn't you know, wasn't assigned

6:33

to my case. His name was Mike Lee.

6:36

He was elected to the Senate in two thousand

6:38

ten, and he remembered what my judge

6:40

said. I mean, the whole legal community across

6:43

the country knew my judge and his

6:45

his sixty seven page opinion. And

6:47

so you know, this unlikely Allies

6:50

coalition to get me out was sort of you

6:52

know born and and it and it consisted

6:55

of you know, friends from the music industry,

6:58

you know, people like Snoop Dogg and and

7:00

Bonnie Rayit and Mike Gepps and Alicia

7:02

Keys, with these political figures

7:05

like Mike Lee and Corey Booker Um

7:07

and Rand Paul and even the

7:09

Koch brothers. You know, eventually, you

7:11

know got behind you know, the effort to

7:13

get me out and and it was more to do with not

7:16

myself being you know, an extraordinary

7:18

person that was my judge, um

7:20

that really you know, made all

7:22

of these individuals rally around

7:24

my um my cause to get me out

7:26

of jail. Now, you

7:28

know, I had never ever ever

7:31

in my life, and I'm sure most people can attest

7:34

you don't rarely, if ever,

7:36

I mean, this has thee one situation I would

7:38

say, but you rarely if ever

7:41

see a judge say that, hey, I don't want to give you

7:43

this sentence, but his mandatory minimum. That's

7:45

what we have to do. But then to go from there

7:48

to then be an advocate for

7:50

you as a Republican even

7:53

more so especially you know, Republicans

7:55

are tough on crime. Uh. To

7:57

to say that this was unreasonable

8:00

and then have other Republicans as

8:02

well as Democrats come together to

8:05

say that it was unreasonable treatment

8:07

for the crime. Uh. Now, we

8:09

gotta keep in mind, deek U states

8:12

all across the country of decriminalized a

8:14

small amount of marijuana. Twenty seven

8:16

states, including the District of Columbia. Poland

8:19

has showed that almost seventy of

8:21

Americans, if not more, at this point

8:23

believe in legalization of marijuana.

8:26

But I gotta ask you this question, because during

8:28

this time you were in your music

8:30

career, You're dealing with people like Snoop Dogg, who's

8:33

obviously legendary, and you never

8:35

really see him without marijuana smoking anyway.

8:37

I mean, that's what has been for years. But

8:40

why were you selling marijuana to

8:42

begin with? Yeah? So, so as I said,

8:44

it wasn't like, you know, we were out there,

8:46

Hey, who wants some weed? This guy came and asked

8:49

to buy some of our weed. It wasn't

8:51

like, you know, it was three hundred dollars worth. I

8:53

mean, I just I just signed a multimillion

8:55

dollar record deal, So three hundred dollars

8:57

worth the cannabis and makes

9:00

fifty bucks or something is not a profitable

9:02

I didn't do it for profits. So this informant

9:05

was a guy that you know, used to be from

9:07

my hood when when I was younger. You

9:09

know, he was from our gang. And and and so he got

9:11

out of prison, you know he did he did he

9:13

did a nickel, went to prison, did five, got

9:16

out, he caught another case. And he had just

9:18

had a kid, or at least you know, he was going to

9:20

have a kid, and so he didn't want to go back.

9:22

He was like, I'm done with this ship, I'm done with this lifestyle.

9:25

And at this point, you know, I was in the music, I was

9:27

out of the street life and all that. You know, I was

9:29

done with that. He got out and made it seem

9:32

like he was too. So he was like, I just

9:34

need to make some money too, you know, I got I got, I

9:36

got a kid, and I just need to you know, hustle. And

9:38

so I'm like, huh, you go take some

9:40

you know, go do what you gotta do. And

9:42

so, um, you know, that's really how it

9:44

started. And um, you know, all over

9:46

that little bit of money. And you know he was asking,

9:49

he was you know, they were trying to come up with enough

9:52

um, you know, charges to pressure

9:54

me and hopes that it would lead

9:56

to the arrest of a famous rap

9:59

artist. And know, the Feds have been wanting to get

10:01

Snoop Snooped for a long time, anyone they really

10:03

wanted, anyone. They you know, they've never seen

10:05

that here. And and another reason, you know,

10:07

that's just you know, one of the motives. The other

10:09

motive was, you know, what we found out

10:11

later was that some

10:13

of these prosecutors and agents looked

10:16

at me like I was bringing Ebola,

10:18

you know, into Utah, and they wanted to keep it

10:21

out and so um and and

10:23

you know a lot of these prosecutors and

10:25

agents they're not from like Salt Lake City

10:27

itself. Salway City is very diverse. So a

10:29

lot of people, you know, they just say, Utah, Oh, it's

10:31

all Mormons. Well, when you go to the city, it's very diverse,

10:33

it's very liberal. But when you leave the

10:35

city and in the county, it gets very

10:38

conservative and very Mormon. And

10:40

so that you know, that's where you know, most

10:42

of these prosecutors and agents are from. They

10:44

didn't want that culture being

10:47

brought to this city. Um. And

10:49

so you know that there was two prompted. You

10:51

know, it was very racially motivated case. Um.

10:54

And so in addition, if they felt

10:56

like they could you know, arrest somebody

10:58

famous and gets headlines and you

11:01

know, get some promotions, you know, all the better.

11:04

And I just want to note that the lead

11:06

prosecutor in this case got an award

11:09

from the Attorney General under

11:11

the George Bush administration. He got

11:13

an award with my name on it for the successful

11:15

prosecution of Well and Angelo and

11:18

so um, you know, the case was, it was a

11:20

big case. And then the lead gaining

11:22

an officer who was a state agent

11:24

named Jason Magron. He

11:27

got promoted to be the chief of police

11:29

for a city called mid Bellum,

11:32

which is just you know, outside of Salt Lake. And

11:34

so you know that this is the whole motivation

11:36

for prosecute me had nothing to do with,

11:39

oh, we we really want to take this guy down

11:41

for this little bit of weed. You know, there

11:44

was other motivations that play, um,

11:46

that have nothing to do with justice, right,

11:48

So they wanted to get you so they

11:50

can really get you to flip

11:52

on Snoop or somebody else like that, to to to

11:56

really have a big win. As we

11:58

know normally happens when prosecut you just

12:00

get involved at any level, whether they be federal

12:02

prosecutor state or local, local county,

12:04

whatever the deal may be. So let me

12:06

ask you this question. Do

12:08

you believe that you should have went

12:10

to jail at all for this

12:13

or you just feel that the sentence was

12:15

obviously way too harsh. Well,

12:18

I'll frame it this way, and this is something my judge

12:20

actually looked into and he was trying to

12:22

figure out, you know what he

12:25

could do besides sentenced me, and so he was getting

12:27

information from various sources. He asked

12:29

the jury what an appropriate sentence would be. He

12:31

reached out to the state system to figure

12:33

out what would what would be the no time

12:36

I would serve in the state if I were prosecuting

12:38

the state, because what happened really is a state charge.

12:40

It wasn't federal. There's nothing uniquely

12:42

federal about these charges. It was just

12:45

the way they charged it because under the state

12:47

law, I couldn't be prosecuted to to much

12:49

extent. And so he found out

12:51

that I could have received a misdemeanor

12:54

and probation um and

12:56

and that have had I went to jail in the state system,

12:58

that probably would have been you know, sit months

13:00

or less. And this is back in two thousand

13:02

and you know too when my case happened.

13:04

I got charged in two thousand two, So in

13:07

two thousand two, back then I probably could

13:09

have you know, and I probably wouldn't have even seen

13:11

jail or a felony because I met it was my

13:13

first adult offense, and so

13:16

you know, that was telling. And even my prosecutor's

13:18

boss, um, who was the head u

13:20

S attorney, he said you know, he felt that under

13:23

the state system, I probably would have got probation. Um,

13:25

realistically, Um, you know, even

13:27

though the max you know, would

13:29

have been you know, zero to five years, but under the state

13:32

guidelines it would have been zero months.

13:34

And so, you know, should I have went to prison, well

13:36

under the state law, according to state law, no,

13:39

um. And so I don't think no prison

13:42

was warranted. I mean, it's it's some weed, you

13:44

know. Um. And I had a career, you know,

13:46

had some young kids. Um, you know,

13:48

I had just made it out of poverty myself

13:50

with a you know, unique opportunity to do something

13:53

that you know, only few in this world gonna

13:55

do. And it was taken away

13:57

over some bullshit, in my opinion. And

14:00

the judge, of course, who presided over

14:02

your case, called the sentence unjust, cruel

14:05

and irrational and wanted you to receive less

14:07

time. But according to him, there

14:09

was nothing that he can do. Well,

14:12

um, so you know, all he could do, he felt

14:14

like he could do is go down kicking and screaming, and

14:16

you know that's what he did. And he felt

14:18

like, you know, a lot of people didn't like

14:21

that. A judge gets emotionally

14:23

attached to a case, and so

14:25

you know a lot of people asked him, like why did

14:27

you get so involved in the case, and he was like, well,

14:30

somebody had to speak up for Mr Angelos,

14:32

you know, because obviously he couldn't do it himself, and so it

14:34

had to be him. And so, you know, when I was in the courtroom,

14:37

you know, I knew that there was

14:39

an effort to find the sentence

14:41

unconstitutional, and so I knew my judge

14:43

spent a lot of time, you know, researching

14:45

this, and he we briefed it, you know, over and over

14:47

and over, trying to figure out the unconstitutional

14:50

for him to impose such a lengthy sentence

14:53

on such low level conduct. And unfortunately,

14:55

our Supreme Court precedent is lacking

14:57

under the Eighth Amendment, and so you

14:59

know, he could not find a way out. And you

15:02

know, I kind of figured I was going to get you

15:04

know, the minimum mandatory, which was fifty five years

15:06

and one day UM, possibly

15:08

more um, even though he was trying

15:11

to impose a sentence around ten years

15:13

UM, which was still the max under the guidelines,

15:16

because the prosecutors could have charged

15:18

me under the sentencing guidelines rather than

15:20

the mandatory minimums, where I would have

15:22

received you know, anywhere from six and a half

15:24

to you know, maximum of ten years,

15:26

which likely would have been probably around like

15:29

seven or eight if they would have charged me into the

15:31

guidelines. Um, but they wanted to charge

15:33

him the mandatory minimums, you know, to try to you

15:35

know, get me to flip or just to put maxi amount

15:37

of pressure on me to accept a very

15:40

unjust plea offer. And so

15:42

you know, when I was in the courtroom, and you know, I

15:44

didn't know what the judge was gonna do. My attorney didn't know.

15:46

He had never encountered a case like this before,

15:48

so we none of us knew what was going to happen. And

15:51

you know, when it came time, you know, I knew what

15:53

was happening. When he said, after careful

15:56

deliberation, I reluctantly conclude,

15:58

I knew it was over with. He said, I reluctantly conclude

16:01

that I have no choice but to impose

16:03

a fifty five years sentence, you know, and

16:05

then he imposed one day for

16:07

the additional charges, and so, um,

16:10

you know it was over with. And you know that's when

16:12

you know, I knew the fight to get me out began.

16:15

You know, we were we had multiple attempts

16:17

to appeal the case, you know, to no

16:19

avail. You know, our court system, our

16:21

appellate system is a joke. Um,

16:23

you know, you rarely succeed. They

16:26

you know, stacked the deck against

16:28

you. And so you know, we really had no other

16:30

option but to hope, uh, you know,

16:32

a progressive president would you know,

16:34

get elected, and um, you know, we could seek

16:37

a commutation. Before we move on, you

16:39

need to take a break. Let

16:48

me ask you this question. What was it like

16:50

in that moment when you heard

16:53

from the judge and he handed you down

16:55

a fifty five year sentence for

16:58

something that's clearly not worth while. Five

17:00

years and I'm even listening to you say,

17:02

well, if it was under a sentence and guidelines,

17:05

then maybe it would have been sixty teen years. This

17:07

this wasn't drug kingpin

17:10

level crime.

17:12

It was a crime so that we would call it what it is.

17:15

But it wasn't something like you're selling

17:17

crack and you're getting all these people

17:19

addicted. This was less than a thousand

17:22

dollars. And honestly

17:24

speaking, nowadays, you I've

17:26

seen people with the cannabis as I've been

17:28

researching and talking about it, that

17:30

doesn't really get you much these days if you spent

17:33

a few hundred dollars on cannabis. So it's it's

17:35

kind of interesting to hear your

17:37

story. What was it like in that moment when you heard

17:39

fifty five years? Well, like I said, you know, I

17:41

was expecting something

17:43

around them because the three there's

17:45

three charges out of those sixteen, one

17:48

of them was five years, the other two or twenty

17:50

five and they must be served consecutively.

17:52

So I knew there was at least a fifty five year mandatory

17:55

minimum just on those three council loan.

17:57

And it was because the way the agents

18:00

and prosecutors stacked my sentence. Now,

18:02

for instance, if they really thought I was

18:04

this dangerous person that they made me out to

18:06

be before the judge and trial and sentencing,

18:09

they really made me out to be this you know,

18:11

dangerous you know, gun slinging,

18:14

you know kingpin with three worth

18:17

the Canadas. You know, it was really ridiculous. They looked really

18:19

stupid, and they tried to compare my case

18:21

to be as being worse than second

18:23

degree murder, worse than child rate,

18:26

worse than terrorism, um, and

18:28

you know it was laughable, um and so

18:31

um, yeah, it was just real crazy man and um,

18:33

you know, the judge, he had no choice.

18:36

And so when I heard the fifty five years sentence,

18:38

you know, it just confirmed what I already you

18:40

know, thought was gonna happen, and that you

18:42

know, the fight to get me out would have to happen

18:45

on appeal, you know. And and you know,

18:47

but when I heard him call on the president,

18:50

I didn't know. I knew he thought the sentence was unjust.

18:52

He said, you know, in the very beginning, like

18:54

eight months before the sentence thing, he said, the sentence

18:57

appears to be cruel on justin r rational

18:59

um, and he trying to find a way out. So but

19:02

when he sentenced me and he said that, you know, I

19:04

call on the president to commute the sentence

19:06

to something more you know, more reasonable

19:08

and more just. You know, that gave

19:10

me some hope. Um. You know, I didn't.

19:13

I didn't have a lot of confidence in Bush,

19:15

um, you know, because you know Bush was

19:18

not uh somebody who was courageous

19:21

and and and super immerciful um.

19:23

And neither was his staff. Um. So

19:25

I really didn't think there was much of a chance there.

19:28

My hope was, you know, in the next administration,

19:31

because when I got sentenced. You know, Bush just

19:33

one re election and so we were stuck

19:35

with him for another four years. UM.

19:37

And so you know, my hope was in the appill at court.

19:40

UM. But while we were you know, working on

19:42

a hill in this UM, we were building support

19:45

from as many people as possible, and

19:47

it was growing every day. You know, we had a hundred and

19:49

sixty three you know, former d

19:51

J officials, former federal

19:54

judges, UM. And then you know, we we

19:56

just kept building and building support

19:58

and and just trying to get as many people

20:00

behind. You know, my case is

20:02

possible to get me out now

20:05

and that and that's really interesting to hear this,

20:07

this major bipartisan effort. And I want

20:09

to get into that in a moment, but I want to ask

20:11

you, so, when you went to jail, what was the prison

20:13

experience like, especially considering

20:16

what you went in there for. You're in there with hardened

20:18

criminals, murderers. You're in there with real

20:21

drug kingpins, people who are probably

20:23

made millions or hundreds of thousands of dollars selling

20:26

drugs, and murderers and all this other

20:28

stuff. What was that experience like for you? Were

20:30

you afraid for your life or

20:32

what was it? Now? I wasn't afraid for my life, but I

20:35

was because you know this, I was young and I was hard headed

20:37

and um. You know, but when I

20:39

when I got to prison, I was expecting to go

20:41

to like a camp or like a low security

20:44

prison. UM. When when the bus

20:46

pulled up to lom Poke, Um,

20:49

there's three prisons there. There's a camp which

20:51

is basically you're not you don't even have a

20:53

gate to hold you in. You don't have like a fense.

20:56

You know, you can wander around. You know, it's pretty

20:59

you know, it's pretty low key, like you can, you

21:01

know, pretty much do what you want. Um. And then they have

21:03

a low security that is, you know,

21:05

has offense, but you know it's really lacks. Then

21:07

you got the USP, which is a maximum

21:10

security where they send people with life

21:12

and violent you know offensive. And

21:15

when the bus stopped at the camp, you

21:17

know, I heard the drivers say I got one person

21:19

for the camp, the rest are going to the USP,

21:22

and I'm like, that's gotta be me. You know, I'm

21:24

not. It's a marijuana charge. You know, I've been never been

21:26

to prison. You know, had a juvenile gun charge

21:28

but it was expunged. So under the system,

21:30

I was treated as the first defenders. So you

21:32

know, I'm getting up, like that's gotta be me. And then I

21:34

look to the side of me and I see

21:37

this square. You know, little

21:39

young white kid that was talking about he was in

21:41

there for, you know, like some kind of computer

21:43

case that he got one year. And when

21:45

I looked at him, like, shit, I'm dead, dude,

21:48

that's here, that's his spot. He's getting out

21:50

here, not me. I got too much time,

21:52

you know, because usually you gotta have under ten years to

21:54

go to the camp. And you know, because I had a fifty five

21:56

years sentence, I was considered a public

21:59

safety risk. And with the camp

22:01

you can walk off and leave if you want,

22:04

you know, you just escape, you just walk

22:06

home, you know. Um, and then they'll put out a warrant

22:08

for you. So it's not really a big deal because the

22:10

campers are considered minimal risk. Um.

22:13

And so you know, when I walked in the USP,

22:15

it looked like everything you see in the movies.

22:17

Um, it was a very dangerous prison.

22:20

Um. It was. It was crazy. And I was like,

22:22

ship all this for you know, nine hundred dollars

22:25

worth the weed, Like it was just I can't believe

22:27

this um, and I just have to do my best

22:29

to adjust to it, you know, and and you know,

22:31

put put my bury myself in law

22:33

books so I could figure out, you know, how

22:35

I got here and how I'm gonna get myself out. And

22:38

just the point of clarification, because I heard you

22:40

mentioned that it was three hundred dollars worth

22:42

a weed, and I heard you mentioned it was nine hundred? Was

22:44

it three hundred times? You know, multiple

22:46

times you gave him the three

22:50

times? Okay, that's what it was. He

22:52

got three worth on three occasions. Okay,

22:54

got you? Okay, now I hear that, all right. So

22:57

you ended up being released from prison due

23:00

to a remarkable bipartisan effort.

23:02

Can you walk us through what that

23:05

looked like? Because you were in there for quite a while

23:07

before you were ever released. So what

23:09

was that that time like? In the in between? So

23:12

you know, I spent most of my time thinking I'm

23:14

getting out that year. Um, you know, we had to

23:16

prepare for him at Peal when I first

23:18

went to prison. You know, I think I was in there for a year

23:21

before our appeal. You know, I was

23:23

ready for decision and we thought we were winning.

23:25

We had oral arguments, the appellate court was

23:28

scolding the prosecutor, you

23:30

know, telling him, you know, he's ridiculous for

23:32

thinking the sentences just And

23:35

more importantly, there was an illegal search and

23:37

seizure where they used illegally

23:39

seized evidence to convict me at trial.

23:41

And that's with my best hope for coming

23:44

home, because yeah, so they

23:47

they entered one of my homes without a search

23:49

warrant and they took all this evidence that made

23:51

me look like I was a gang

23:53

member. And that's really what they wanted the jury to

23:55

see me as like this violent gang member.

23:58

And they used a lot of hip hop stuff they and actually

24:00

wrapped lyrics at my trial. The

24:02

prosecutor rapped lyrics in

24:05

his closing argument, and he began his clothing

24:07

argument rapping lyrics from a mac

24:09

Dre song that I produced, and you know, suggesting

24:12

to the jury that that's

24:14

what this case is all about. And so, you

24:17

know, they put up pictures of like the LBC

24:20

East Side like Snoop clothing and

24:22

said this is gang attire. Um, you know, the

24:24

LBC stuff East Siders. You

24:27

know, all this stuff was um,

24:29

you know, all hip hop gear, you know, And they

24:32

put up pictures of like tupac and a

24:34

vest and get the cent in the vest and was

24:36

just like, you know, this man is dangerous. They

24:39

would put those pictures up next to you

24:41

know, other you know, like firearms and stuff

24:43

like that to make the jury, you know, fear fear

24:45

me. And they did a good job because the

24:47

first day at trial, one of the jurors

24:50

expressed safety concerns to the judge

24:52

and that's when I knew I was going to be hit at trial.

24:55

Um. And so you know they you

24:57

know, it was it was just a you know, it

25:00

was a terrible, terrible trial. The

25:02

government just went out of their way just to you

25:04

know, win the case. They wanted to win at all

25:06

cost um and so um.

25:09

So yeah, so you know, back to back

25:11

to the prison setting. You know, I'm sitting

25:13

there and I got this fifty five year sentence. I'm

25:15

in a maximum security penitentiary.

25:18

Um, and there's people around me that are killers.

25:20

You know, people are getting stabbed. It's

25:23

just a crazy prisons anything like you see in the movies.

25:25

And you know I had to just you know, really bury

25:28

myself in the books. We had, you know, my first

25:30

appeal where the Court of Appeals appeared

25:32

as though they were going to throw out my conviction and

25:34

give me a new trial. And when

25:37

it came time for decision, you know, they

25:39

flipped the script completely and actually

25:41

took shots at my judge. So they

25:44

really looked at this as like, we don't

25:46

want judges doing what. No,

25:48

but no, the no, the higher court, the higher

25:50

court who we we appealed to the higher

25:53

Court to try to get my trial overturned

25:55

so I can get a new trial. Because if I got

25:57

a new trial, there's no way they can convict me,

26:00

because now we know all the flaws

26:02

in their case that they used to convict me

26:04

on BS charges and so

26:06

there was these enhancements that they made up at the last

26:08

minute, and that's really what triggered the the

26:11

long sentence. And so you know, we basically

26:14

knew, you know, how flawed their case was.

26:16

You know, their witnesses were lying, the agents

26:18

were lying, the prosecutors were hiding

26:21

evidence. We found the evidence, and

26:23

so a new trial there's no way they could win.

26:25

I would go home after the trial be free.

26:27

And so, um, you know, they did everything they

26:29

could to paint me as this bad

26:32

guy at the appellate court. Lets me go that

26:34

you know, the streets are going to be unsafe

26:36

now. Like it was just really a crazy, crazy

26:39

kangaroo court. And so, you know, the

26:41

judges appeared in the beginning they were gonna throw out my

26:43

conviction. When it came time for decision, they reverse

26:46

course, and they took shots at my judge

26:48

in the entire opinion, basically

26:50

stating that he, um, he what

26:53

he liked, he didn't take the case serious

26:55

enough. He you know, he severely

26:58

undermined the seriousness of my offense.

27:01

Um, and just completely flipped the

27:03

script from what they were talking about at the oral

27:05

arguments and said that you know, they

27:07

basically wanted to discipline my judge

27:09

and tell them, you know, like, don't do this. This

27:11

is not how we get down his judges,

27:14

and he he wouldn't listen to them. He kept speaking

27:16

out testified before congress

27:19

um and and other judges followed his

27:21

uh, his suit. Other judges, you

27:23

know, uh did what he did and started reaching

27:25

out to the jury and started looking at these

27:27

sentences and you know, to wondering if

27:29

they're even just or not, and find trying to find

27:31

ways around them. And so so yeah,

27:33

so I end up losing the first appeal and then

27:35

we took it to the Supreme Court, which was

27:38

denied in two thousand seven. And

27:40

then you know that really the campaign for

27:42

Clement became meaning meaning

27:44

they didn't take the case up. That's what you're saying when you said

27:46

it was then they almost

27:48

did. Because in order to go to the Supreme Court, you gotta

27:51

have four votes of the nine

27:53

Supreme Court justices. Four justices have

27:55

to vote in favor of it. They three.

27:58

They twice delayed my case had

28:00

a vote I think three times. The

28:02

first two times they couldn't come to a decision,

28:05

which is crazy because the Supreme Court only

28:07

takes about eight cases out of like literally

28:10

tens of thousands every year, and so

28:12

there was you know, uh, some justices

28:14

there that were obviously interested in my case, and

28:16

so they kept delaying it, um, you

28:19

know, delaying a decision, and finally they on

28:21

the third vote, they didn't get

28:23

four justices to vote in my favor and they

28:25

didn't hear it. And so, um, you know,

28:27

now now our focus needs

28:29

to be clemency with the president.

28:32

And you know, my case was really framed for clemency

28:34

because my judge's opinion, um,

28:37

you know, really framed this um

28:39

for for a clemency case. And so you

28:41

know, we were just really waiting for Bush to get out

28:43

of office, and you know, we made a run with

28:46

him at the last you know, his last few months,

28:48

which wasn't successful. UM. And

28:50

then UM, you know, when Obama was elected,

28:52

you know, I thought, for sure, this is it, it's over

28:54

with UM. But he didn't do anything for

28:57

his first four years, first six years

28:59

actually, and so you know I had to sit

29:01

in there for all those years waiting

29:03

for Obama to to take some action

29:06

for his administration. And it was really frustrating

29:08

that, you know, such a progressive administration

29:11

did nothing for the first fourth you

29:13

know, five six years. UM. And

29:15

then in two thousand and UM, I think it was

29:17

two thousand and late two thousand thirteen, the

29:19

very end of two thousand thirteen, I think it was December,

29:22

he commuted eight sentences and launched

29:24

a clemency program. That's when

29:26

you know, it really heated up for us, and we

29:29

had a you know, a letter that went

29:31

to him that was signed by you know,

29:34

hundreds of people from

29:36

you know, the entertainment industry, you know, political

29:38

figures. And then my case became the

29:40

poster child for a criminal

29:42

Justice Reform bill that ran

29:45

Paul or not Rand Paul Rand Paul. You know, he brought

29:47

up my case before the Senate, but it was a bill

29:49

that Mike Lee and Corey Booker were pushing.

29:52

And and so five yeah, five senators,

29:55

five U S. Senators were talking

29:57

about my case during these Senate hearings.

30:00

Um and even my prosecutor's boss, who

30:02

who he left the US A Treaties

30:04

Office, he was the head prosecutor

30:06

there. He actually testified before Mike Lee

30:09

and said that my sentence was wrong and

30:11

unjust. And so now I had the support

30:13

of not only five senators, I

30:16

have the support of my prosecutor's boss and

30:18

my judge and you know, all these former

30:20

you know, officials, and so you know, that's really

30:23

when the campaign to get me out really heated up.

30:25

Now It's interesting because I've been hearing how you

30:27

you talked, you know about something like folks

30:29

that are really tough on crime. Republicans have always

30:32

been really tough on crime, but really

30:35

Republicans were a saving grace

30:37

for you, if if I'm hearing it correctly, you've

30:40

had bipartisan support with

30:42

the former members of the d o J. And I'm

30:44

a conservative too, So of course I'm gonna mention

30:46

this kind of thing, right, So, he've had bipartisan

30:49

members of the d o J who were

30:51

helpful. Senator Mike Lee, as

30:53

I understand it, and you correct me if

30:55

I'm wrong, as I understand that he was the

30:57

person who put um your part

31:00

and before Barack Obama

31:02

in the White House, um for clemency,

31:05

pardon, whatever. So so the

31:07

Republicans have been helpful in his fighting

31:10

in this journey for criminal criminal

31:12

justice reform, especially for for you

31:14

and others like you. Absolutely.

31:17

So, you know, my judge was, you

31:19

know, a Federalist Society

31:21

judge, and so he was one of the super

31:24

conservative. He was so conservative that

31:27

he fought for the to the for the Supreme

31:29

Court to overturn miranda rights. He

31:31

fought to get rid of the exclusionary

31:33

rule that says if if agents violate

31:36

your Fourth Amendment rights, that they

31:38

can still use the evidence evidence against you.

31:40

So if agents come in your house with no warrant and just

31:42

start looking and find drugs, my judge

31:45

thought they could still use it against you. It

31:47

didn't matter. And that's how conservative he

31:49

was, and that's what made some conservatives

31:52

listen to him and like, maybe we

31:54

got this wrong. Maybe we are. And he

31:56

made a real strong conservative

31:58

case for criminal justice reform, and

32:00

so a lot of people like Chuck Grass Lee and

32:02

others, and Mike Lee especially. This is

32:05

why Mike Lee got in criminal justice reform

32:07

because of my judge and so, you

32:09

know, and and being prosecuted in such a

32:11

conservative state. You know, the only people

32:13

that could help me was Mike Lee and Oorn Hatch, and Oorn

32:15

Hatch waited until after all

32:18

these other people came out to help me before he opened

32:20

his mouth. And so, um, really, Mike Lee,

32:22

I credit him for for why I'm free

32:25

right now and why I was subsequently

32:27

parted by President Trump. Um. And

32:29

so you know, I gotta give a lot of

32:31

credit to Mike Lee and the conservatives and

32:33

you know, the Koch brothers obviously they joined

32:35

Mike Lee's call um to you know,

32:37

get me out of jail. And so you know, it was

32:40

and there was other you know, it was bipartisan because

32:42

he had Corey Booker and and some entertainers.

32:44

But you know, Mike Lee, I think is really

32:46

what got me over the finish line, because Mike Lee

32:49

made me the poster child for Reform

32:52

and argued that I never should have gotten

32:54

the sentence because yeah, there was a there

32:56

was an incorrect interpretation under

32:58

the law. Uh that that never

33:00

should have you know, happened in my case because

33:03

the Supreme Court incorrectly interpreted the statue.

33:06

And so the First Step at clarified that

33:08

now prosecutors cannot seek

33:10

and and and and get a fifty five year sentence

33:13

for someone like myself. Ever, again, it's over with.

33:15

And so you know, when I got out, you

33:17

know, in in in two thousand sixteen, you know,

33:19

we got a couple of people out under Obama's administration.

33:22

When Trump was elected, we were like, okay, look,

33:24

you know, it's gonna be four years before we get anything

33:27

done. And surprisingly we were invited

33:29

to the White House UM for

33:31

the prison reform summits, and so, you

33:33

know, I developed a relationship with the Trump

33:36

administration, UM with my friends

33:38

Ron Smith, who was actually a part of

33:40

the Coke network before that UM

33:42

and then ultimately Vonka and so

33:44

you know, me and Drew on worked on started

33:47

working on clemency. And so after we

33:49

passed the First Step Act, you know, we shifted our

33:51

attention to clemency, and you

33:53

know, I started working with Jared's office and Ivanka

33:56

Trump, and you know, we were able to get twelve

33:58

people out of prison who were serving

34:00

life for marijuana. UM. And

34:02

so on Trump's last day, he commuted you know that what

34:05

we we we submitted this letter with this list,

34:07

UM, and I hand delivered it. You know, I took I went to the

34:09

White House many times, and you know, I handle

34:11

evered this list and we had a letter that

34:13

was signed by governors and prosecutors

34:16

and NBA stars and

34:18

you know, I had we had a list of individuals that had

34:20

unjust cannabis sentences and on his

34:22

last day, he granted twelve of them. And he also

34:25

granted another case that actually UM,

34:27

you know advocated. I brought Snoop into

34:29

the folds, uh and you know, introduced

34:31

him to Ivanka Trump. And you know, we

34:34

we got Harry oh Out, the co founder of death Row

34:36

Records, and that was a case that

34:38

you know, we worked with and you know, Alice Johnson was

34:40

huge, you know, huge help on UM.

34:43

And so you know, we got a lot done into the Trump administration.

34:46

UM. And you know we're just trying to continue

34:48

that, you know, on to this administration. And you know That's

34:50

why I was part of you know, last December

34:53

by President Trump, because of the work that I

34:55

had done on the First Step Act in in

34:57

elsewhere. Yeah, I'm really happy to

35:00

here all the work that you had been doing,

35:02

and I've worked on the First Step Act two. I was on

35:04

Capitol Hill lobbying the

35:06

passage of that that particular bill.

35:09

But the Trump administration, I think probably

35:11

if they were to leave, when

35:13

you think about legacy, real and true

35:16

legacy. One of the things I think that Donald

35:18

Trump can certainly help hold

35:20

his head up high and and say

35:22

that he's proud is on the criminal justice reform

35:25

efforts, because I think he, along

35:27

with Mike Lee and others, had really

35:29

opened the eyes of conservatives across

35:31

the country as to what

35:34

was really going on. You

35:37

gotta have fairness when it comes to justice.

35:39

It can't it can't just be you

35:42

know, we're gonna throw the book at you. You gotta examine

35:44

every case with detail. And one of the things

35:46

that I was so disappointed with with the

35:49

Clinton administration is the fact

35:51

that in this wasn't cannabis. Of course, this was

35:54

the distinction between crack cocaine

35:56

and cocaine, and the

35:58

sentence and Commissions reports

36:00

saying that there was a racial disparity

36:03

and they didn't do anything about it. And we've seen

36:05

that time and time again with a

36:08

number of these, as you mentioned, progressive administrations.

36:11

Not now though, I mean they're letting everyone

36:13

out, but certainly during that during

36:15

that area when we're talking about West Fair, was

36:17

just and what they and they seemingly didn't

36:20

really move on those issues. But Donald

36:22

Trump did. Do you maintain a relationship

36:24

with the former president to this day?

36:27

Um, not him, but I still have contact

36:29

with Ivanka um here and there.

36:31

UM. And you know, just the fact that

36:34

you know, him and Snoop have this crazy beef

36:36

um. You know, and we were able to sort of you

36:39

know, squash that UM. And we

36:41

were able to get that sort of squash you know, uh,

36:43

and and get some work them you know before

36:45

they left. Um. You know, I thought was

36:47

was pretty was was pretty amazing and

36:50

so UM. So yeah, you know,

36:52

we we got a lot done in the administration, and you know,

36:54

the first step back has resulted in you know, the release

36:56

of sixteen thousand people. Yeah,

36:59

I know, that was crazy. So yeah, I think

37:01

it was one of the biggest reforms, you know since

37:03

nineteen seventy really, um, if you

37:05

look at at all the different mandatory

37:07

minimums that were reformed, Um, you

37:09

know, I think it was you know, the biggest uh,

37:12

you know reform since then. And you

37:14

know, we've got to keep going. And you know, we're trying to

37:16

get some work done under this administration. And

37:19

you know, I know it's it's starting off a little slow,

37:21

um, but you know we're hoping to continue going.

37:23

And recently we launched the Cannabis Freedom

37:25

Alliance with um,

37:27

the cokes Um and Snoop and you

37:30

know, making it bipartisan in order

37:32

to get more Republicans right. And I want to ask

37:34

you about that in in a in a moment, because

37:36

that that's a huge deal and

37:38

that's one in which you definitely

37:41

should be congratulated on getting the attention

37:44

to Charles Coke. We're talking to Weldon. Angelo's

37:47

the new face of criminal justice reforms. We've

37:49

got much more with him right after a quick break. Since

37:57

being released, you have become one of the made

38:00

your faces of course of criminal justice reforms.

38:03

What are your your goals for changing the system

38:05

right now? Right now? I think

38:07

you know, I mean, one of my biggest efforts

38:09

is ending this hypocrisy

38:12

of allowing large corporations

38:14

and mostly older, you know, white entrepreneurs,

38:17

you know, allowing them to make millions while keeping

38:19

um, you know, people incarcerated for doing the

38:22

same thing, and predominantly people of color. It's

38:24

it's a crazy hypocrisy. You know, I know someone that's

38:26

serving sixty years for a marijuana fense

38:28

um while you know, these corporations are allowed

38:30

to make millions for doing the same thing, and they're both violating

38:33

federal statutes. You know, it's still

38:35

illegal. Even though the states have passed

38:38

you know, different laws, it's still illegal federally,

38:40

and they're not charging them. They're picking and choose and

38:42

you know the winners and wansers, and you know, it's just wrong.

38:44

And so I think, you know, we need to end the federal

38:47

ban and let the states decide and that way

38:49

people can vote with their feet um. And

38:51

you know, the federal prison system is

38:53

is filled up with you know, thousands of people

38:55

you know in there for you know, non violent

38:58

cannabis charges while their way seen

39:00

you know, the state after state legalized.

39:02

And so you know, that was my whole purpose

39:04

for you know, starting that alliance, because

39:07

we need to we need to pass federal legislation

39:10

that de schedules marijuana on the federal level.

39:12

UM. And and as far as other criminal

39:15

justice you know, where we're trying to get

39:17

past, you know, various different criminal

39:19

justice bills because there's still a lot of work to be done.

39:21

We have to make the changes in the first step

39:23

back retroactive UM. And that's something

39:25

that you know, Mike leaves a big champion on the

39:28

statute that gave me fifty five years

39:30

is not retroactive. The people that you

39:32

know, there's people still in there serving you know, longer

39:35

sentences than I had for the same type

39:37

of conduct because that was not retroactive.

39:39

And so you know, we couldn't get it done at the time

39:41

because of Tom Cotton and Ted

39:44

Cruz, you know who flip flopped on the issue. And

39:46

so you know, now you know, we we have a

39:48

bill that that made that a committee

39:50

and you know, we got to try to get that passed through the Senate.

39:52

Now, Uh, Switching gears a little

39:54

bit. Charles Cope, the billionaire libertarian,

39:57

was spent a fortune on

39:59

political causes. He's

40:01

now actively funding efforts to

40:03

the tune of twenty five million

40:06

dollars to in federal marijuana

40:08

prohibition. Now, I know you're

40:12

a big part of the reason, at least

40:14

from what I've read, you're a good part of

40:16

the reason why his Odds was open to this,

40:18

and you reached out to Charles

40:20

Coke and asked them if you would partner with

40:23

you in terms of having

40:25

fairness in the in the system

40:27

here, especially when what marijuana his view

40:29

to decriminalize it. Uh,

40:32

what is that relationship like and why did you

40:34

choose to reach out to him that that's a very

40:37

interesting person to reach out to. Yeah.

40:39

So, um, you know, when I had gotten out of jail,

40:42

we had we had a south By Southwest event

40:44

and I connected h Charles

40:46

Coke and his team was Snoop trying

40:48

to get more work done. You know, we just had a Republican

40:51

president take office, and you know, we

40:53

needed to try to work together to get things

40:55

done. And interestingly is that

40:57

was the week that the Snoop and

41:00

Trump be freely kicked off. And so it made it kind

41:02

of hard because you know, uh,

41:04

what's the Marco Rubio and

41:06

Ted Cruz were telling the Coke don't do

41:08

the event with Snoop because he just made that video.

41:11

You know, about Trump, and so it was really hard, you

41:13

know, but we we still did the event, and you know,

41:15

we started, you know, I'm trying to bring my entertainment

41:18

friends over you know, to d C and

41:20

and and meet with you know, political figures,

41:22

even take him to the Trump White House so we can really

41:25

get some reform done. And so, you know,

41:27

Snoop in the in the Coke started, you know, working

41:29

together because of you know, my introduction,

41:32

and um, we had a zoom call last August.

41:34

I had just gotten Loon out from bad

41:36

Boy Records p did. He's rapper and

41:39

so we wanted him to come on this event.

41:41

And I had a Snoop, Snoop come on. Huh

41:45

yeah, lou was We had

41:48

a fourteen years sentence, um

41:50

and so and and you know he and when

41:52

I got out, a lot of hip hop industry reached out

41:54

to me for help, you know, Harry, oh, you

41:56

know death Row because of my connection there. Um,

41:59

you know that was a Snoop's request.

42:01

And then you know a Loon from bad Boy um

42:03

Rollo who's an Atlanta rapper, working to get

42:05

him out with Drake, working with Drake and others to

42:08

get him out. Um and tayd Alla Signs

42:10

brother and so a lot of people in hip hop reached out

42:12

to me for help, and so we you know, I spent

42:14

about eighteen months trying to get Loon

42:16

out, um. And you know, I took his case

42:19

to the White House and they were this close

42:21

to granting his clemency and then

42:23

the riots and he

42:26

was in there for just a non violent drug fans. He made

42:28

an introduction to two people who went

42:30

on to do you know, some drug deals,

42:32

and he got caught up in the conspiracy law

42:35

and so he had a fourteen year sentence, and you know, we

42:37

were very close to getting him clemency and

42:40

then you know that's when everything really kicked

42:42

off and with the pandemic and everything

42:44

else, um, and so they had to shift

42:46

their attention away from criminal justice,

42:48

and so I used the first step back to

42:50

get him out to the court system. And so when

42:53

we got him out, um, you know, we had this event

42:55

with the Coats and you know, I invited Snoop on and

42:57

me and Charles and Snoop had a one on one

43:00

on this zoom private zoom call.

43:02

And you know, this is like you know, when

43:04

you know something you know and the idea

43:06

my head based on something Charles

43:09

said about the need to you

43:11

know, end the war on on cannabis.

43:13

You know, the light bulb my head went off, like why don't

43:15

I reach out to them because I'm in the middle of trying

43:18

to you know, end prohibition, and

43:20

so I reached out to his team. Um.

43:22

Actually, we're at the Hill America tour um

43:25

UH in Atlanta last year,

43:28

and you know that was had the cokes there,

43:30

had Doug Decent, a good friend of mine, um,

43:32

and you know, that's when I brought it up to him for the

43:35

first time, like, you know, we'd like to get your help

43:37

in this, and you know, they were honestly like, you know, we had

43:39

never considered getting into this

43:41

issue or you know, supporting the more

43:43

active you know, something we've never considered.

43:46

You know, let us think about it. And you know it

43:48

took some months, you know, and then you

43:50

know, I think some time in like February, they

43:52

said yes, let's do it, um, and then

43:54

we were happy, you know, because Charles

43:57

has a lot of influence over Republicans,

43:59

and then by coming out publicly in

44:01

favor of legalization, it gives

44:03

other Republicans cover to say, you know, what. I

44:05

agree with this because we we speak to a lot of Republicans

44:07

that are like, you know, prohibition stupid.

44:10

I just don't know that I'm ready to come out publicly

44:13

and say I support it. Um. Now it's

44:15

easier, you know, because you know, we got different

44:17

you know, Republicans like Charles, like you

44:19

know, um, you know, Mike Lee and others that

44:21

are saying, you know, states should have the right

44:23

to do what they want with regard to their

44:25

drug laws. And so, um,

44:28

Charles is a perfect ally. I mean, you know,

44:30

they his his team spends you know, millions

44:32

every election cycle. I said, I felt

44:34

like, you know with that, um, you know that

44:37

some of these repub lawmakers are going to listen

44:39

to him. Yeah. And and of course,

44:42

uh Mr Coke has been one

44:44

who's been responsible for a

44:46

number of Republican wins and at one time

44:49

and probably still now is the biggest funder of

44:51

Republican causes in candidates.

44:54

So to say that you reached out

44:56

to him, I think is a And he answered

44:58

as a huge, huge deal you and

45:00

certainly your your work with Snoop Dogg bringing

45:04

them along for the ride. On a cultural standpoint,

45:06

that to have these kind of conversations are really

45:08

important. But let me ask you this question. Out of all the

45:10

things you've experienced thirteen years

45:13

in jail, the entire

45:15

experience. Now you're a

45:17

figure that's really well known in criminal justice.

45:20

You're working with billionaires, you're working with celebrities

45:22

to help other people get out of jail.

45:24

Donald Trump was the was

45:27

the help and to push that along.

45:29

Let me ask you this very important

45:32

question. At all of that and all these experiences

45:34

that you that you had, do you

45:36

regret selling though

45:38

that marijuana those three

45:40

times? Do you regret it? No?

45:43

I mean I don't regret it, um from that

45:45

perspective. I regret it from you

45:47

know, losing my career, and you know, regret

45:50

it from you know, taking that that that

45:52

risk. Um, I don't regret it. I don't think

45:54

anything's wrong with with cannabis.

45:57

Um. You know, it never should have been illegal in the first

45:59

place, and it definitely should have never triggered

46:01

aft year sentence. But at the end

46:03

of the day, so much good has come out of you

46:06

know that my case. You know, we we

46:08

we were able to change federal law. We're

46:10

able to do so much with regard

46:12

to that. Um So UM,

46:14

I don't regret it like I regret it from the perspective.

46:17

I regret it from the perspective that you know,

46:20

doing that ruined you know, my career.

46:22

You know, I my son's lost, you know,

46:24

thirteen years of their life with me,

46:27

and you know, had to live in poverty because

46:29

of it. So I definitely regret it from

46:31

that perspective. But now you have

46:33

uh an alliance that you you've you've

46:37

created, and can you tell us about your organization

46:39

that you're you're doing now in terms of changing the law,

46:41

working with the Cokes and certainly

46:44

your organization to change the

46:46

law across the country federally in state

46:48

by state as well. Yeah. So,

46:50

you know, after we passed the First Step Act,

46:52

I wanted to shift my attention to you

46:55

know, cannabi's justice, and so we launched

46:57

the Weldon Project, which is a five one C three,

47:00

And then we launched an initiative called

47:02

Project Mission Grain and it's

47:05

a clemency initiative, but really our goal is

47:07

to end incarceration for marijuana events is

47:09

especially on the federal level um and then

47:11

shifting to the states. And so we launched that and

47:14

we've really been trying to engage people with influence,

47:16

especially in the hip hop community, to get

47:19

involved. And you know that's something we've been very successful

47:21

at. We just launched a campaign with

47:23

the rapper Russ Um

47:26

and UM and we when

47:28

we were working with Drake on getting um,

47:30

you know, the the Biden

47:32

administration to launch a

47:35

cannabis clemency program UM

47:37

and so, you know, really we're trying to unite you

47:39

know, the entertainment industries, whether it's athletes,

47:42

um, you know, whether it's people in hip hop and

47:44

bringing them to the table with other like minded

47:46

people, you know, such as even conservatives,

47:49

you know, Republicans, trying to you know, keep that

47:51

unlikely allies coalition alive so we can

47:53

keep making progress. Well,

47:56

thank you so much for spending time with

47:58

me today to talk about your

48:00

case. I certainly read about it many years

48:02

ago, and Senator Mike Lee was the person

48:04

that was pushing it. He was also the

48:06

person who wrote op ed, a

48:09

pretty profound op ed when

48:11

the first step back was uh

48:14

really being debated and talked about, and

48:16

it was a response to Senator Tim Cotton, his colleague,

48:19

who was also a Republican, and

48:21

him being having been a federal prosecutor, he

48:23

was able to lay it out in a way that was understood

48:26

from a legal perspective and wasn't necessarily

48:29

political, but just the right thing

48:31

to do. And I think I can, I can absolutely

48:33

appreciate that. I don't UH me

48:36

personally. I think that the law

48:39

has to change. I think it should change, especially

48:41

with all the things that are going state by state, and

48:44

Republicans I believe UH

48:46

should be very open to having those kind of conversations

48:48

as they had with your case.

48:51

So thank you for spending his time with me. And before

48:53

we let you go, is there anything you've got coming

48:56

up? Any big projects that the folks at home should

48:58

know about before you go? And where should

49:00

people go to follow your work? Yeah? Absolutely

49:02

so anyone you know wanting to you know,

49:04

get involved or just you know, check out what

49:06

we're doing, they can go to the welcome project dot org

49:09

um and you know, sign up for a newsletter where

49:11

they can follow us on Instagram at Project

49:13

Mission Green. And yeah, we have a number

49:15

of you know, interesting projects coming up.

49:17

UM. You know, we're about to launch a Proclamation

49:20

for Justice UM that includes

49:23

a very bipartisan group of people

49:25

from you know, across the entertainment UM

49:27

and you know, the political both political

49:30

aisles UM. You know, we have Republicans, Democrats,

49:32

independents, UM, and you know

49:35

entertainers you know, from various backgrounds

49:37

that are you know, signed on to this Proclamation

49:40

for Justice, that is, you know, urging

49:42

President Biden to you know, do not only

49:44

what he said he's gonna do, UM, because he

49:46

promised, you know, on the campaign trail that he was going

49:48

to decriminalize cannabis and that he

49:51

was going to you know, expende

49:53

records of everyone with cannabis uh

49:55

felonies. And so you know, we we

49:57

we're gonna keep them to that promise, and we're gonna

50:00

tinue, you know, keep from pressure on him

50:02

to do something about it as soon as possible. UM.

50:04

And then UM, you know, we need

50:06

to change it on the federal level as well, which

50:08

is why you know, we launched the Cannabis Scree, Tomorian. And

50:12

here we are talking about non violent

50:14

and I think that's a key question for folks at home,

50:17

non violent offenses,

50:20

uh with regards to cannabis.

50:22

So I appreciate your time, thank

50:24

you for coming on, and certainly wishing you

50:26

well as you move forward

50:29

in your alliance and

50:31

and keeping these good folks like

50:33

Ivanka Trump and everybody else

50:36

uh together on this issue as

50:38

we hopefully see real justice

50:40

happen. Absolutely, thanks

50:43

for having me on I

50:54

want to think Well had the most Again for

50:56

a fascinating interview. If you're

50:58

enjoying the show, please leave us a review and rate

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51:32

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