0:00

Up next out Woud with Gianno

0:02

called part of the gig, which switch six people

0:05

who don't read scripture, often insuing women

0:07

play little to no role in the Bible. In

0:09

fact, some critics even claimed the Bible's

0:12

outright sexist. Today we learned

0:14

the truth with the one and only Shannon

0:16

Breen. Welcome

0:23

back to Allow with Gianno Calledwell. I'm Gianno

0:26

calledwell, and I'm so excited for this week's show.

0:28

My guest is someone who I'm a big

0:30

fan of and I'm sure you've seen on TV

0:33

Fox News Channel, Shannon Breen. Shannon

0:35

has been a pillar at Fox News for

0:38

years, and she currently works as an anchor

0:40

in the network's chief legal correspondent.

0:42

Shannon is also a New York Times bestselling

0:45

author, number one in that slot

0:47

multiple times over. For

0:50

her latest book, The Women of the Bible

0:52

Speak The Wisdom of Sixteen Women

0:54

and their Lessons for Today, it

0:56

rose to the New York Times bestseller list

0:59

number one over and over

1:01

again. Such a good read. Today, I

1:03

want to discuss Shannon's latest book

1:05

and examine faith more broadly. I

1:07

also asked her about the Supreme Court, reliant

1:10

on her former legal career and years of reporting

1:12

on the nation's highest court. Plus

1:15

we discussed family and get a bit into Shannon's

1:17

personal life. With that, I want to welcome

1:19

Shannon bringing to the show. Thank you so much for

1:21

coming on Allow with Gianno Caldwell. You

1:24

know it is my honor. I've been just

1:26

so blown away watching you over the

1:28

years and just um all the amazing things

1:30

that you're doing, and I'm always cheering for you and

1:32

so interesting to know. You were the

1:34

first person I've ever met who

1:37

worked at Fox News Channel. I think it was the

1:39

Hills Most Beautiful

1:42

event and you you received the honor of that year

1:44

and I was able to say hello, I'm I'm

1:46

interested in doing television. I think I was doing TV

1:49

at that point. I think it was more on CNN as a as

1:51

a guest. But it was so nice of

1:53

you to give me your your email address

1:55

and correspond with me, and here we are now colleagues

1:58

at the same network. I love it.

2:00

And that's such a cheeseball Washington

2:02

thing that we would be at a party for the Hills

2:04

most people, but

2:07

I love it. I'm glad that that was an opportunity

2:09

to meet you, if nothing else, exactly

2:12

exactly so I want to get into something

2:14

that I think Um has certainly

2:16

woken people up to women

2:19

in the Bible today. I think especially

2:21

in our day and age with the culture

2:24

that we see the cultural wars, and you see a

2:26

lot of folks that have been moving

2:28

towards darkness. If I'm being honest

2:30

with you, they're not necessarily utilizing

2:33

the Bible as a tool to get through those very difficult

2:35

times. In some cases, they're shunning

2:37

the Bible in any religious teachings.

2:40

And you came out with a bomb

2:42

selling a book called

2:44

Women of the Bible Speak, which New

2:47

York Times best Selling Author, number one

2:49

best selling author week after week, and

2:51

that was earlier this year. And

2:53

the book is titled The Women of the Bible

2:56

Speak, The Wisdom of the Sixteen Women in Lessons

2:58

for Today. So what

3:01

made you decide to write this book? It's

3:03

just it's it's such an interesting term for

3:05

it. Yeah, it it actually

3:07

Fox came to me because you know, they were putting out

3:09

their own book label book series, three

3:12

different books, and they said, listen, we're thinking about doing

3:14

something in this space with women and religion.

3:16

We know you're very open about your faith. Is this something

3:19

you'd be interested in and I was like, man, what an

3:21

opportunity. I was so excited,

3:23

and we dove in and decided to put

3:25

together these women in pairs. We kind of look at

3:27

the parallels in their lives and the lessons we learned

3:30

through them, and the more that I studied

3:32

because I grew up in the church and in faith, and

3:34

knowing these stories, I learned so

3:36

so much about these women. And

3:38

I was writing this during last year, which

3:40

was probably the worst year for just about anybody

3:42

that they can remember, with fear

3:45

and anxiety and loss and pain

3:47

and worry and financial trouble and just

3:50

such a stew of terrible things. And

3:52

it really was such a blessing to me, this

3:54

book of being inspired remembering

3:56

these stories, reading the Bible in a deeper

3:58

way, and thinking, you know, that's working through things

4:01

all the time, whether we can see it

4:03

or not. And I saw that in these women's stories,

4:05

and I'm just amazed that

4:07

it's really connected with people. And I

4:09

love that that. I think for some people,

4:12

um, you know, the toughest times

4:14

like the year of the pandemic and of social

4:16

unrest and a and of open wounds and

4:18

of things that we've got to have tough conversations. I think

4:20

all of those things made a lot of

4:22

people more open to talking about

4:25

faith, into finding something bigger than ourselves

4:27

that we can root in. And you

4:29

know, the book they came to me, but it turned out to be

4:31

such a blessing to me and writing it. Now,

4:34

were you surprise how popular

4:36

and successful it's been? Oh?

4:38

Absolutely. I mean, you know, when you

4:40

write a book, you don't ever want to get expectations

4:42

about what it's gonna do. And for this, because

4:45

it was this message that's so faith

4:47

based. You know, I just prayed over the

4:49

book when it was being written and getting ready.

4:52

Um, you know, God just helped this to be a encouragement

4:54

to people, help them to find you if

4:56

they're looking for you, if they know you, may they

4:58

be encouraged and just inspired

5:01

by these women to see that you

5:03

have purpose in everything and that people great and

5:05

small. And you know in this book

5:07

I joke about it, but it's true. We've got a queen, we've

5:10

got a murderer, we've got a prostitute. I mean,

5:12

all of these different people, some women who made really

5:14

bad decisions. But God redeemed it

5:17

and he can use our messes. Uh,

5:19

he can reach to us wherever we are. We

5:22

don't have to be Queen Esther. We can be somebody

5:24

who you know is no name, is

5:26

just living our lives, is just trying

5:28

to be faithful, and he can work through all different

5:30

circumstances. So I just

5:33

came at the book from such a spiritual place

5:36

that I wasn't thinking about how it would do or trying

5:38

to tell myself, don't look at those worldly measures

5:40

of this. So to see it do

5:42

so well, Yeah, very surprising.

5:45

Yeah. Absolutely. Let me ask you this for

5:48

our listeners, especially for those who

5:50

may not be familiar with the work, can

5:53

you explain for those who may not

5:55

even be familiar with the Bible in and of itself,

5:57

can you really give us the crooks of the book

6:00

book and why it

6:02

was so so important today. I know you talked

6:04

about the pandemic. I agree with that, but

6:06

even beyond that, because the country is

6:09

opening and up. L A just opened up.

6:11

I think it was yesterday, June June.

6:14

It just opened up. So you're seeing all across

6:16

the country and now people are kind of

6:18

out of the pandemic in some respects, and

6:21

now we need to really get those folks

6:23

who might have said you know, I'm out of this now. I don't need

6:25

to think about faith. I don't need to think about God. I don't

6:27

need to think about the Bible because my life is going back

6:30

to how it used to be. This book is

6:32

going to be important for years to come.

6:34

Can you can you just dig right in

6:36

and and talk to us, talk us through the book.

6:39

Yeah. So, what I love about the book

6:41

is that the more I looked at these stories, I thought, gosh,

6:44

they're timeless, because these

6:46

are women who deal with family squabbles

6:48

and jealousy and fighting, and

6:51

infertility and widowhood and

6:53

longing for something and praying for years

6:55

and hoping for something to come true,

6:57

chronic illnesses, financial ruin. I

6:59

mean, these are all things that over time

7:02

we're all going to experience in one way or another, or

7:04

the people that we love or our families are

7:06

gonna walk through these valleys. So I

7:08

was just struck by the

7:10

fact that these stories across

7:13

time translate to today. I mean, there's still

7:15

very problems and beyond

7:17

um. But like I said, to see how God worked and

7:19

sometimes these women we did years

7:22

or decades a lifetime to see

7:24

His promises come true for them. I

7:26

think we've all been in seasons of uncertainty

7:28

or of waiting, or of struggle, whether

7:31

it's you know, relational, financial, physical,

7:33

spiritual, whatever it is. Those

7:36

stories just give us encouragement.

7:38

They challenge us, and they give us tools,

7:40

I think, and point us in the right direction to say,

7:43

you know, have faith, continue to seek

7:45

God. He hears you, he hears your prayers. They

7:47

don't have to be fancy. You don't have to

7:50

be a theologian or have gone to seminary.

7:52

I mean sometimes it's the simplest things. There

7:54

have been times in my life where I've been in a really

7:57

dark place and all I could say was God, please help

7:59

me, God, Please help me. I mean,

8:01

not not anything fancier

8:03

than that, or knowing every in and

8:05

out of my faith or of doctrine,

8:07

but just knowing that God is there and he's listening.

8:10

A man now, you

8:12

know, I think, uh, one of the first

8:14

woman of the Bible that everyone, uh

8:17

it seemingly talks about is the

8:19

story of Adam and Eve and the eating

8:22

of the apple from the tree. Did

8:24

you dig in there? You know what's so funny

8:26

is we had to cull it down at some point

8:29

because there were so many stories. Eve did

8:31

not make the cuts, sadly, but maybe there'll

8:33

be women of the Bible speak too, and then we'll get

8:35

even there. I mean, she is the mother

8:37

of all humanity and all that we know, and God's

8:40

earliest, you know, human creation, She and Adam.

8:42

But we had this process of going through and saying,

8:45

gosh, what do we include? What do we

8:47

cut out? Because all of these stories are important

8:49

and fascinating. We don't have to add anything to them,

8:51

by the way, I mean, there's so many twists and turns

8:53

and drama um with each of

8:55

these stories that they're all kind of

8:58

you know, Hollywood movies in their own right.

9:00

So we don't talk too much about

9:02

Eve in in this um study.

9:04

She's not one of our deep dive studies in this particular

9:07

book. But we do include a lot of the Old Testament,

9:09

a lot of the New Testament. And honestly,

9:11

there were so many women after we did the nine chapters

9:14

pairing them together that I said,

9:16

listen, excuse me, eight chapters. I said, there

9:18

are all these other women that we don't

9:20

some of them we don't even know their names, but their stories are

9:23

important. They're included in the Bible, and they

9:25

show the interaction with Christ and how

9:27

he didn't judge, he accepted

9:29

and loved them. He would and whatever their circumstances,

9:32

you know, say to them, go and send no more.

9:34

But he didn't ever be raped

9:37

or belittle them. I mean he went to these

9:39

women who were outcasts

9:41

from society, who were not accepted

9:43

by the religious elites or the elites of

9:45

the day. And so he went to people

9:48

where they were modest, humble people

9:50

that needed his help. And so we did a whole other

9:52

chapter that we added on the end about

9:55

Christ's interaction with another eight women.

9:57

So it was really hard to cut. In the

9:59

end, I ended up adding instead of cutting.

10:01

But I think there are plenty more women there for hopefully

10:03

more books down the line. We're talking to Fox News

10:05

anchor Shannon Bring. We've got much more with her right

10:08

after a quick break. You

10:12

did your study and your research, and for

10:14

some people the Bible can be confusing

10:17

to them. You talk about the distinctions between

10:19

the Greek and the Hebrew and how it

10:21

was transliterated. As an example

10:24

at second Timothy one and seven. For God have not

10:26

given us a speed of fear, but of power of love in the sour mind,

10:29

but yet it says you have to fear God.

10:31

And you know, I know from

10:33

my study that that that fear is

10:35

reverence respect versus be afraid of

10:38

How did you deal with those different translations

10:41

to really pull out the true contextual

10:43

meaning behind the words in the Bible?

10:45

As you you did your study and research here. You

10:48

know what helped me so much is that, UM,

10:50

I had a basic familiarity with these stories

10:53

and with these scriptures. But I had

10:55

a couple of world class theologians

10:57

who actually have been to seminary and know the

10:59

Greek and the he run all those things. A couple

11:01

of folks who work at a First Baptist Dallas,

11:03

and Pastor Jeffers is a Fox News contributor,

11:06

UM, and our viewers and listeners

11:08

will know him well. And I reached out to these folks in

11:11

his church. He connected me with them because I would have

11:13

these really deep questions, like you said, trying

11:15

to get to the meanings behind the words, or

11:18

what were the customs of the day, what were

11:20

women allowed to do not to do? Why

11:22

was this woman's circumstance unusual or

11:24

was it common? UM, so honestly,

11:27

being able to lean on these super educated

11:29

UM seminarians and to say to them,

11:32

give me a fuller understanding here.

11:34

Even though I knew these stories, they

11:36

brought them to life in such a different way

11:39

for me. And we talked through

11:41

different translations, and sometimes

11:43

we would say, even the scholars don't agree on a particular

11:45

point, so let's flash out what

11:47

we know. Let's not add or speculate,

11:49

but but let's say what experts have

11:52

told us here about these women. And

11:54

I think it leaves a lot of room for additional

11:56

study. You know, every chapter we end

11:58

with study questions, and I love that because

12:00

when I read a book, I love study questions

12:03

that then, you know, give you the task

12:06

of, you know, digging into the scriptures

12:08

more praying that they will personally

12:11

be more understandable, more enlightened

12:13

for you. Um. And I like when people

12:15

do it as a group, to have a number of women

12:17

who have said to me, we're doing this as a church Bible study,

12:19

because I always feel like in conversation

12:21

with other people studying the same scriptures,

12:24

you're going to get different perspectives and different ideas.

12:26

So I was very blessed to have those

12:28

experts to lean on. And I

12:30

hope it's just sort of a jumping off point for people

12:32

that they'll be encouraged to do their own study

12:34

as well. Mmm. No,

12:37

I love that. Now, out of all

12:39

the women in the Bible you wrote about, from

12:41

Queen Esther to Mary Magdalene,

12:43

is there anyone you really identify with or

12:46

found especially inspiring? You

12:48

know, I've always loved this story about

12:50

the woman, and she's in several gospels, but we

12:52

don't ever know her name. Um when we meet her,

12:55

she'd been suffering with an issue of bleeding,

12:57

is what we're talking the woman

12:59

with the issue Jesus.

13:02

I love her story. It is so comforting

13:06

and inspiring. Um. I just

13:08

she'd suffer for twelve years and we meet her. She has

13:11

no money left, because we're told she spent everything

13:13

she had seeing worse

13:17

exactly what exactly?

13:19

So think about how despondent she must

13:22

have been at that point. She's she's penniless. Now

13:24

she has no cure, she's only getting physically worse.

13:26

But she hears about Jesus, this guy who's going

13:28

around performing miracles, and some people say as the

13:31

son of God. And so she's like, I believe

13:33

that this guy is who he says he is, and I

13:35

am just gonna go touch the hem of his garment. That's

13:37

going to be enough to heal me. So what

13:39

I found out in writing the book and studying

13:41

is that she would have probably been considered

13:44

unclean in those days because of this illness

13:46

and this bleeding, meaning shouldn't have been around

13:48

crowds, not been in the temple, not been in the marketplace,

13:50

I mean, very isolated in her home. Probably

13:53

is a lot of folks felt this last year over

13:55

the pandemic um, you know, very

13:57

lonely at times. But she goes and

13:59

finds jesus Us and she does that. She touches

14:01

the garment, the hem of his garment, and all

14:03

the gospels tell us she was immediately healed.

14:06

She knew it, and Jesus knew

14:08

because he's got that something had happened.

14:10

And he turns around and one of the gospel says, who touched

14:13

me? And I almost can hear the disciples

14:15

laughing, sort of like the responses, everyone's

14:17

touching you. You're in a crowd all the time. Everybody

14:20

wants a piece of you right now. So he

14:22

clearly knows who it is, and we're told she was. She

14:25

fell down in front of him, trembling,

14:27

and afraid to confess the whole thing.

14:29

And he says to her, and all the accounts, the very

14:32

first thing he says is daughter. He

14:34

doesn't say, how dare you? You're unclean,

14:37

you shouldn't even be in this crowd. How dare you touch

14:39

me? This esteemed rabbi, the son of God, he

14:42

didn't see any of that. So he telegraphs his

14:44

acceptance directly to her, but also to everybody

14:46

who's watching, that she did the right

14:48

thing. And he says to her, your faith

14:51

made you whole, and he sends her on her

14:53

way. And I think, what joy

14:55

for not only this one woman, but for her

14:58

to then be able to go tell her story all these pople

15:00

who have known her for twelve years with this illness, every doctor

15:02

that she's seen, everyone in her community, to

15:04

say, oh, my goodness, this person healed

15:06

her. I mean, that was the purpose of a lot of the miracles,

15:09

was to show that Christ was divine,

15:11

and so um. I love that he

15:13

was so kind to her and just

15:16

telegraphed complete acceptance of her,

15:19

even though what she did would have broken the norms of

15:21

the day. Absolutely,

15:23

And I really appreciate the part where

15:26

it says, as she went she

15:28

was healed. So just to hear

15:30

that compliment from Jesus to say, your faith

15:33

has made you healed, because it was literally

15:35

the touching of his garment following instruction

15:37

that she believed to touch him. Her

15:39

faith activated when she touched his role

15:41

and I thought that was so so cool,

15:44

and I think something that people can learn from

15:46

today. And when you just believe God and you just

15:48

follow his instructions, you'll get

15:50

what you're requesting. And

15:53

the thing is, his timing may not be ours,

15:55

his answer may not be ours, but he's listening

15:57

and he is going to answer ours us

15:59

and a lot of times it's better than anything we could

16:01

have dreamed up. Um. I've seen that in my

16:03

own life, and I saw that in so many of

16:06

these stories of these women that we include in the book.

16:08

And you know, my hope is that people who maybe

16:10

are intimidated by the Bible aren't people of faith,

16:12

they'll still be inspired by these women and

16:14

what they went through and to see their resilience

16:16

and um, how they stood

16:19

up with real courage in times of

16:21

challenge and at the threat of their own lives

16:24

in some of these cases. Um. But

16:26

the fact is that some of them prayed and waited

16:28

for years and decades, like I said, to see

16:30

the answers, and they came about in a different way

16:32

than these women would have thought, but an

16:35

even better way. And we can trust that God

16:37

is going to be always working for our good. Absolutely.

16:41

Now, you know, men are usually the

16:43

ones that are referenced in the Bibles of the

16:45

scripture, mostly outside of Mary the

16:47

Mother of Jesus or Eve

16:50

as A as another example. And

16:52

you think about the women of the Bible, is

16:54

this something that men sometimes would think?

16:57

Maybe I shouldn't get it. It's talking about the women of the

16:59

Bibe. What what can I get from this? Have

17:02

you had any experiences

17:04

with that from either men or

17:06

people from other faiths beyond

17:09

jud Joe des Um and Christianity

17:12

or atheists or you know,

17:14

nonbelievers, and say, why would I want to read this

17:16

book? This? This won't apply to me? Right?

17:19

And let me start with the men, because the

17:21

thing is they'll have familiarity with a lot of these

17:23

stories because in many of these stories you've

17:25

heard before, but probably primarily

17:28

from the male point of view, like Abraham

17:30

and Sarah, the foundation of

17:32

all the world's you know, most prominent,

17:34

biggest faiths out there come through

17:36

this family. But we've heard about Abraham a lot,

17:39

and we do hear about Sarah. But in

17:41

my book, I tell the story from Sarah's

17:43

perspective. So you're getting, um, just

17:45

another angle on the same story you've probably heard

17:47

or studied if you are a person

17:49

of faith. I've had men say to me, I'm

17:51

buying this from my daughter's we're going to read it together,

17:54

or I bought it from my wife, um, and she's

17:56

sharing it with me and now we're going through it together.

17:58

So I don't think it's john or specific

18:00

at all. And like I said, I do think even

18:03

if you're not a person of faith, um, you

18:05

know, I think there's so much there.

18:07

The principles are the same, about

18:09

perseverance and about community

18:12

and about finding strength in really

18:14

difficult circumstances. So I've

18:16

had a couple of Jewish people reach out to me to

18:18

say, you know, I thought maybe this would only be

18:20

from the perspective of the New Testament, because you're

18:23

a Christian, you're very open about your faith. But

18:25

to me, as a Christian, the Old Testament is the foundation

18:27

of my faith. And so I've had Jewish

18:29

believers say to me. I love that you included our

18:31

stories and that Queen Nest and others that are

18:33

so important to us from our faith

18:35

traditions, from the Old Testament, or at

18:38

least half of your book. So I think there's

18:40

something for everybody if you're just looking for something

18:42

positive and encouraging. We need to pause

18:45

here for a quick break, but we'll be back straightly.

18:52

Let me ask you this question in your

18:54

in your life, because you've had many

18:56

examples of how your faith

18:58

has worked for you. You're clearly

19:00

one of the most sought after individuals,

19:03

and news media and the network

19:05

has been promoting you. You've done a great job.

19:07

You you're the chief legal correspondent

19:10

if I'm correct, and I believe that you are. You work

19:12

on Supreme Court issues regularly

19:15

and consistently when the court is open.

19:17

Have you noticed any

19:20

shift in terms of legally of people's

19:22

rights is in terms of their religious faiths

19:25

being usurped and they have to take cases

19:27

to the Supreme Court. I'm sure that happens all

19:29

the time, but do you see more of that occurring

19:32

now in this day and age. Yeah,

19:34

we certainly did a lot during the toughest

19:36

lockdowns during the pandemic. There were several

19:39

churches and you know, synagogues

19:41

and different faiths that actually joined

19:43

together to go to the Supreme Court and

19:46

say, um, you know, why can people

19:48

fly around in planes or go to Costco or go to

19:50

liquor stores or pet stores, but they can't go

19:52

to church. And so I mean, we

19:54

saw cases out of New York and California, all

19:56

over the country that ended up at the Supreme

19:59

Court with the justices basically saying, listen, there

20:01

can be times of enormous

20:04

distress and emergency in our country, but you

20:06

can't suspend the Constitution forever. And

20:08

you can't treat churches differently than you do

20:11

non religious organizations if

20:13

you can say, you know, there was a case out of California

20:15

where these churches are saying, listen, if you're gonna say strip

20:18

clubs can be open during the pandemic,

20:20

we are not going to close our doors. So

20:23

you know, the Supreme Court came down in favor

20:25

of a number of these religious groups saying you've

20:27

got to work out the accommodations. If casinos

20:30

and other places are open, you have to find

20:32

a way that you're not discriminating

20:34

against worship places, houses,

20:36

of faith UH in the same way. So we

20:38

saw a lot of that during the pandemic. And

20:41

we you know, there's a case pending that we're waiting

20:43

right now for at the Supreme Court too, which

20:46

sets up something that's a very modern conversation

20:48

about how you balance religious

20:50

faith and freedom in this country UM against

20:54

the rights of lgbt Q and their

20:56

community and anti discrimination statutes.

20:58

And in this one case deals with Catholic

21:00

Charities groups and Piladelphia

21:04

who who UM work as a foster

21:06

care placement system for children

21:08

in need, and UM, because

21:10

they are a Catholic church based group,

21:13

they don't actively place children with

21:15

same sex couples. So there's a lawsuit over

21:17

that now pending UM and I know

21:20

that for the case, and the record shows there's never been

21:22

a same sex couple who's gone to Catholic Charities

21:24

to try to be part of the foster program and been turned

21:26

away. So the case is based on something

21:29

that hasn't actually happened yet. But I

21:32

think that's going to be one of those very tricky

21:34

places where the Court's going to try to find this

21:37

balance of respecting the rights of everyone involved.

21:39

Can you find that balance? UM,

21:41

And we'll get that case in a number of days, and

21:43

so, um, yeah, I think there are a lot of important

21:46

conversations on that space that are

21:48

happening in the legal world. Now.

21:50

We've seen in recent years that each

21:53

nominee, each new nominee to

21:55

the Supreme Court, becomes a political

21:57

circus. We saw that with Brett common all

22:00

Amy Coney Barrett, which

22:03

they tried to really

22:05

really derail her nomination as

22:07

well as Brett. Why does the Supreme

22:09

Court become such a politically

22:11

expulsive, explosive point

22:13

of contention. Is it healthy for the republic

22:17

I think it's tricky because the

22:19

justices themselves don't want to be viewed

22:22

as partisan. They know that either Republican

22:24

or a Democrat president nominated

22:26

them, but they very much want to be

22:28

seen be seen as untethered

22:30

from that. They have no obligations, they make no

22:33

promises to any president who interviews them

22:35

or considers them for nomination, and

22:37

so you see them across the ideological spectrum.

22:40

I think it's healthy to have Justices, all

22:42

nine of them across the board, different

22:44

ones now speaking up and saying, um, you know, Justice

22:46

Prior, who's viewed as a part of the liberal wing,

22:49

he comes from a Democratic nomination President

22:51

Clinton to say, this court

22:53

is not political. We do not want to be viewed that way.

22:55

We for the Chief Justice John Roberts, obviously

22:57

a Republican nominee, say the same thing. We

23:00

as the court or above that separate from

23:02

that and we don't operate that way. They've,

23:05

you know, many of them have said things

23:07

that have indicated they're not happy about

23:09

this talk of packing the court by

23:11

Democrats and progressives who are really pushing

23:13

that. So when you have even Stephen Bryer

23:15

coming out as a Democratic, democratically

23:18

nominated nominee who votes primarily with the

23:20

liberal wing, to say, stop talking about

23:22

packing the court. You're undermining the

23:24

institution and making it look political, where

23:26

we make every effort to not be

23:28

political. And I think they genuinely do that,

23:30

but I think because they're the highest court

23:32

in the land, there's so much at stake for every

23:34

seat that changes, and so right

23:37

now they're just like we saw with Justice

23:39

Ginsburg, we're seeing a number of people

23:41

step up on the left and right these articles

23:44

and give these interviews saying it's time for Justice

23:46

Prior to go. And my experience

23:48

has been that the more that happens with the Justice,

23:50

the more likely they dig their heels in and they don't

23:52

want to leave. So it's really

23:54

tricky. And you know, one

23:57

of the things we watched for is I'm now coming to the end

23:59

of the term for the Supreme Court, which ends the end

24:01

of June. We always watch for those retirement

24:03

announcements, and there are always rumors,

24:05

but we haven't heard anything concrete from Justice

24:07

Bryan, and I suspect the more of the left calls

24:09

for him to go, the longer he's going to stay.

24:12

Yeah, unlikely. Now, what do

24:14

you think about Mitch McConnell's latest statement

24:17

saying that if Republicans

24:19

take over the Senate and he becomes the majority leader

24:21

again, he's not going to allow any

24:24

Joe Biden nominees to get

24:26

a hearing. And that's clearly if someone were

24:28

to retire at this point. Yeah, he says in election

24:30

year four, if that

24:32

happens. Now, he'll say to you that that is

24:34

consistent with what he did with the open

24:37

seat of Justice Scalia when there

24:39

was an election coming and the Senate was in a different

24:42

political party's hands than the White House.

24:44

He says, what's consistent is to wait for the

24:46

election and let the voters tell you who they want to

24:48

fill that seat. So it's really

24:51

wonky, is very nuanced,

24:53

but he says that's been his consistent argument

24:55

the whole time. And listen, he

24:58

and President Trump. There lasting

25:00

legacy, I think will be the enormous

25:02

number of federal judges they got seated to the

25:05

bench during President Trump's year or

25:07

his term that he absolutely so. Um,

25:09

that is what Mitch McConnell is about. That's what President

25:12

drump was about, was getting those seats filled.

25:15

So listen, I think it's tricky Democrats

25:17

are looking ahead to next year and knowing that you

25:21

know, historically it's not a good year for

25:23

the party whose president holds the White

25:25

House. So I think that the House is very

25:27

much in play. I think the Senate less

25:30

so. But again, um,

25:32

you know, looking ahead too, who

25:34

knows what the political landscape is gonna be. But

25:36

Mitch McConnell says this statement

25:38

he made this week is consistent with what he did.

25:44

I wanna I want to close out our interview

25:46

by asking a couple of questions about

25:48

you beyond Fox News and your best selling

25:50

book. You've spoken before about

25:52

your eye condition that you may you had to

25:54

endure extremely dry eye

25:56

and how painful it was for you. You described

25:59

waking up in the middle of the night and feeling

26:01

like someone was literally stabbing your eyes.

26:04

For our listeners who may not know, what

26:06

was that experience like and what

26:08

lessons, if any, that you learned from it,

26:11

it was clearly the darkest part of

26:13

my life. I'm very open in my first book

26:16

talking about that and how when you live

26:18

with chronic pain. And I'm sure a number of people listening

26:20

to this know what that's like, or they have someone

26:22

they love who knows what knows what's that's like. Every

26:25

day you're questioning how

26:28

do I get through this day? And

26:30

what is the purpose? I mean, if my whole

26:32

life is going to be nothing but trying to survive

26:34

excruciating pain every day

26:36

of my life, why should

26:39

I go on living? And I was really asking myself

26:41

those questions, and I went

26:43

from doctor to doctor with this excruciating

26:46

I pain. Finally and

26:48

I had gotten to a really dark place and just kind

26:50

of had a breakdown with my husband, like I can't go on

26:53

like this, I can't do this anymore. And when I

26:55

you know, log onto message boards for people who are

26:57

suffering the way that I am with the same eye conditions.

27:00

People are talking about suicide, and that doesn't

27:02

sound crazy to me. It sounds like it would be a relief

27:04

in some ways. And I knew in

27:07

my head, even though I was exhausted

27:10

and going through constant pain and emotionally

27:12

exhausted, that

27:15

that wasn't clear thinking.

27:17

I knew that, and so leveling with my husband,

27:19

having this conversation and deciding

27:22

that I was going to start the hunt again

27:24

for another doctor, and praying that God would

27:26

lead me to somebody. Listen, if you're not gonna heal me, may not

27:28

be your plan. Please just lead me to somebody

27:31

that can get me through this. And the

27:33

very next day I found the doctor who

27:35

finally diagnosed me. And I always embarrassed

27:37

him when see him. I'm like, you know, you're an answer to prayer any

27:39

sort of like he laughs a

27:41

little bit uncomfortably, like, okay, thanks

27:44

um, But he really is um.

27:46

And what he diagnosed me with was not only

27:48

the dry eye that I was struggling with. And I hate

27:51

this because I know millions of people around the world struggle

27:53

with this, but on top of that, I had

27:55

a genetic condition to my corneas that is

27:57

not curable. It's manageable, but there is

28:00

no cure for it. So that was

28:02

a blow when he told me that. It was such a high

28:04

to hear that he knew what I had finally, but you

28:06

know, really difficult to hear that you're never going to be

28:08

free of this. You're going to manage this the rest of your

28:10

life. And with his help and God's

28:13

grace, I have been able to get out of that chronic

28:15

pain situation and found such relief

28:17

and help were the

28:20

time. I'm doing amazing and I'm so

28:22

grateful. So you ask about lessons, and that's

28:24

such a great question because a couple

28:26

of things made me way more empathetic

28:28

to other people. Because I would think sometimes

28:31

at the gym, when I'm on the treadmill or something and just

28:33

can barely hang on, I'm like, I don't you

28:35

know the person next to me has no idea what I'm

28:37

struggling with. How do I know what they're struggling

28:40

with. Maybe they are in depression,

28:42

maybe they are have lost someone they

28:44

love, maybe they're unemployed and terrified.

28:47

I mean, you don't know what people are going

28:49

through. It doesn't have to be physical it can be mental

28:51

and emotional. We're all struggling with those things

28:53

of the last year. So it's made me much more empathetic

28:56

um to other people's pain, which is a good place

28:58

to be, to be humble and to care about

29:01

other people. But it also gave

29:03

me great hope and deep in my faith because

29:05

there came a point where after I found

29:07

out that there was no cure for this, that I was in my car

29:10

just sobbing, having left the doctor's office

29:12

and saying, God, how can this be? You know, I feel

29:14

like this guy is my answer to prayer. But what do you mean

29:16

there's no cure? And as I'm thinking,

29:18

I just can't do it, um, I felt

29:21

him say to me, not out loud. I don't feel like I've

29:23

ever heard God's voice out loud, although

29:25

I believe, you know, people can. For me, my experience

29:28

was sort of feeling him say in my spirit, but

29:30

it was very clear saying

29:32

I will be with you. Those words,

29:35

not I'm gonna take you out of this, or I'm gonna heal it, or

29:37

it's all going to be rainbows and sunshine,

29:39

but I'm going to be with you. And I think that's

29:41

a truth that we can all claim whatever

29:44

we're walking through that he

29:46

promises us to be with

29:48

us in the best and worst of it. So I

29:51

would never want to relive those years, but

29:53

I learned a lot and I'm thankful for what I

29:55

learned through them. Wow, thank you for

29:57

sharing that story. And is so and

30:00

thing you mentioned your your husband Sheldon, and

30:03

I see you all's marriage.

30:05

You will be married. I guess it will be thirty

30:07

years in a few years from now, like maybe three years

30:09

now. We just we celebrated our so

30:13

five years from now. Yeah, yeah,

30:17

And you know what we always say, we

30:19

are non perfect, but we're perfect for

30:21

each other. And our faith is the foundation

30:24

of what keeps us together. Like everyone has

30:26

been married for longer than five minutes, you've had an argument,

30:29

you've had ups and downs, real world

30:31

struggles and real crises, um in

30:33

your marriage. And so we don't ever

30:35

want to act like we've got it totally together and

30:38

um it's perfect to bliss for twenty five years,

30:40

but we know that you can

30:42

make it through tough things. And I am

30:44

his number one fan and I think he's mine too.

30:47

And I think if you come from a place

30:49

of where you're cheering for your spouse

30:51

and you want the best for them, because listen, we're all born

30:53

selfish beings. I think we come out of the womb that way.

30:56

And marriage really makes you fight that you have

30:58

to want the other person since, um,

31:01

you know, benefit before your own.

31:03

And if you're constantly trying to serve

31:06

and care for each other, it's going to be

31:08

a beautiful circle where you're taking care of each

31:11

other. And it feels like a

31:13

really nice place to kind of have shelter

31:15

in your own home against the rest of the world because

31:18

you know you have someone who has your back and you have theirs,

31:20

and that's and I appreciate that. Thank

31:22

you for sharing that. And

31:25

as someone who's certainly looking to get

31:27

married at some point in

31:29

the in the future, maybe even the near

31:31

future, who knows the near future,

31:33

Yeah, I would love that. But

31:36

for me, it's it's you've got to really beyond

31:39

everything looking okay, if a

31:41

person has, you know, all the things in which

31:43

you desire and a mate. It's also

31:45

this this instinct, this it factor

31:48

that comes into play in my mind. And of

31:50

course I've never been married, so I don't really

31:52

really know. But my question to you

31:54

is, is there do you believe that

31:56

there's that one person or

31:58

is it maybe one peron sin or

32:01

the one person in a particular time,

32:03

or is it just a one person God

32:05

has created for you and there can't be any others.

32:08

Yeah, that's such a good question, and

32:10

I've wrestled with that because I

32:13

can't imagine my life with anyone other than Sheldon.

32:15

And I see how perfectly his strengths

32:18

fit together with my weaknesses, and I think, Gosh,

32:20

God sent him to me, for sure. But

32:22

I do believe we have free will and God has

32:24

all kinds of wonderful people out there

32:27

created. You know, some people

32:29

it's a gift of singleness in marriage is not

32:31

for them, but I think for a lot of us it

32:33

is. And I think, you know, God can work

32:35

through all of our decisions, and hopefully

32:38

we seek him and really, you

32:40

know, try to get good counsel when you're looking at whether

32:42

this is the one for you. So, I

32:44

mean, I personally believe, because

32:46

of the path of my life and because of what a good

32:48

fit and a wonderful, amazing person

32:50

shallness to me, I feel like he's my person.

32:53

But I don't want people later,

32:56

But I don't I don't want people to feel

32:58

like, oh gosh, there's only one person to miss

33:00

him, I'm never getting married, or if i'm you know, miss him,

33:02

I'm going to marry the wrong person. Like, I don't

33:05

know that that's the case. I just think in

33:07

my case, I'm really grateful for the one

33:09

person God did send into my path that I'm

33:12

married. But I think there are a lot of amazing people

33:14

out there. So I don't know if it's like, oh, if you don't get

33:16

this one, then you've done everything wrong, you know. And

33:18

I've been wrestling with that question myself, and

33:20

I think to your point, and I love

33:23

what you said because it's what I've I've

33:25

believed as well. As you

33:27

have free will and it can be something

33:29

that's intended to be. But for that person,

33:32

maybe they're not right there at that right moment,

33:34

and they have the free will, let's say no or not

33:36

move on and God will place somebody

33:38

else in your life. So I think that. I think that's amazing

33:41

and I really appreciate you sharing

33:43

that. And before we go, do

33:45

you have any big projects coming up that the

33:47

folks at home should know about? And

33:50

where can they find you on social media and elsewhere?

33:52

Well, you can find me at Shannon Bream

33:54

on Facebook and Twitter

33:57

and instaff. I drew the line at like TikTok,

33:59

I'm like, I'm tool for that. That is not true if I'm doing

34:01

that. Um, Although I have an amazing

34:04

assistant, Tessa, who is young and hip

34:06

and knows how to work everything. Um, but I

34:08

stick to those three pretty much. I'm pretty prolific on

34:10

Twitter with news. Um. We I've got

34:13

something out on Fox Nation now which is called Hero

34:15

Dogs, which is a lot of fun. It's

34:17

amazing stories about dogs that go into battle

34:19

or their police dogs or you know, the dogs

34:22

that went on the raid for Bin Laden. I mean, we've

34:24

got amazing stories where you see them with their handlers

34:26

and the military men and women that they work with, or the police

34:29

officers they work with, or the d e A Drug

34:31

officers, and that's just kind of a feel

34:33

good um story. Those are on Fox Nation.

34:35

They've just been released now this you know, the

34:37

next couple of weeks are going to be crazy covering the Supreme

34:40

Court, and I'm feeling it for Bret and Martha and

34:42

a lot of other people the summer as it gets busy,

34:44

and of course at midnight we're there for Fox News

34:46

at nights on the East Coast nine o'clock Pacific

34:49

and hopefully we'll see you there with us soon. I

34:52

hope so too. Thank you, Shannon Brain

34:54

for sharing with us today. We really appreciate

34:57

your valuable insight my pleasure.

34:59

Thanks for having me. I

35:08

want to thank Shannon Bring again for a great

35:10

interview. If you're enjoying the show, please leave us

35:12

a review and rate us with five stars on Apple Podcast.

35:14

If you have any questions for me, please email

35:16

me at out loud at Ginger Street sixt dot com and I'll

35:19

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35:21

And please sign up for my monthly newsletter

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35:32

more about my story, please pick up a copy

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35:37

How Conservatism Can Win Back to the the Americans The Liberalism

35:39

Failed Special Thanks to our producer

35:41

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35:44

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