0:01

Lecture, my man, what's up? Diyal, my friend, I'm

0:03

doing great today, and how about yourself? I'm

0:05

doing great. I'm so excited because we're

0:07

going to be talking about a new

0:10

song today on one song. On this

0:12

show, we usually celebrate songs from the

0:14

past. We've covered era-defining classics like Nirvana's

0:16

Smells Like Teen Spirit, Queen's Under Pressure,

0:18

The Beatles Come Together, and that's a

0:21

little by design. It's hard to write

0:23

history as it happens. That's true, yes.

0:25

There's no grand perspective yet, but we

0:27

like danger here at one song. We

0:29

live on the edge. We live on the edge.

0:31

Scary. We don't mind being wrong, so we are

0:33

going for it. Today, we are going to be

0:35

talking about a song by one of the leading

0:37

artists of right now. Number 15, Global

0:40

Artist on Spotify. Absolutely. This song dropped last summer,

0:42

and we think it could be around for many

0:44

years to come. That's right. It's a song that

0:46

went to number one in 19 countries,

0:48

including Brazil, Bulgaria, Lithuania, and even here

0:51

in the US of A. It also

0:53

topped the Billboard Global 200, has

0:55

the distinction of being the fastest song by female artists

0:57

to amass 100 million streams. Damn,

0:59

that's real. More

1:02

than that, it represents the creative zenith for

1:04

an artist who was once dismissed as a

1:06

novelty act. That's right. I said what I

1:08

said. This is that time on

1:10

one song where we're going to do... Doja

1:13

Cat, and the song is

1:15

Paint the Town Red. I

1:26

don't care, I paint the town red. Bitch,

1:28

I said what I said. I'd

1:31

rather be... The

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2:22

right, I'm actor, writer, director, and

2:24

sometimes DJ Diallo Riddle. And I'm

2:26

producer, DJ, songwriter, and musicologist luxury.

2:28

AKA the guy who talks about

2:30

interpolation on the internet. And

2:33

today we have a very special guest with

2:35

us to talk about all things Doja Cat.

2:37

You might know her from her roles on

2:39

a Black Lady sketch show and iCarly. You

2:41

may have seen her on Sherman Showcase if

2:43

you did. Thank you. And you

2:45

might also know her as the

2:48

scam goddess. That is the title

2:50

of her hit podcast. Lacey Moseley, welcome

2:52

to the show. Hey, why are

2:55

you not clapping for me? You know, merge your hands. Violence

3:03

with I don't accept West with the

3:05

West. Okay,

3:10

I looked at you and gave you an approving nod. That's

3:12

what we did in the motherland. We didn't do this. Show

3:14

me applause. We don't know what they did. I did the

3:16

research. That's

3:22

my favorite awkward question when people are like, Oh, where

3:25

are you from? Like, where's your family? Your genius? And I'm

3:27

like, Yeah, I don't know, West Africa somewhere they could dock

3:29

a boat, like somewhere

3:31

up here. I look mine up.

3:33

It was Angola. I'm not giving the government no

3:36

more of my information. Okay. All my DNA. My

3:38

cousin's got two strikes. Okay,

3:45

so Lacey, my friend, we're

3:47

discussing Doja Cat today. I want

3:50

to start off by asking you this. If

3:52

an alien fell to the planet Earth and

3:54

had no knowledge of pop culture, how would

3:56

you explain to this alien Doja Cat? Okay,

4:00

and yellow because we are

4:02

friends. Via airplane spot with.

4:05

Snow Use it is. no, I'm that you said

4:07

it because discussing musicians has got me know how

4:10

to. Structure of a potent well. we

4:12

are far away from them here. I'm

4:14

I live. He ever been here for

4:16

you because I love. You but of

4:19

I guess I was disguised as bad

4:21

as some. Like. Okay, Welcome.

4:24

To our planet and China does

4:26

apple. Is a surgeon. The market has

4:28

a so they are the friends I've been

4:30

to that you're in another Most recently they've.

4:33

Learned that woman versus and.

4:36

Like like that does a

4:38

cat is an internet sensation.

4:41

When. Your children have

4:43

been watching on live

4:45

sees constantly on line.

4:48

And see started off with

4:51

like making these. Videos.

4:54

On a on a camera

4:56

that broadcasted them to the

4:58

world's and they were her

5:00

eating burgers and drinking milk

5:03

shakes and playing music on

5:05

her computer. And then we

5:07

got a beautiful life changing

5:09

iconic zenith. The murder of network

5:11

going to come up a lot. Miss A called.

5:14

The time a towel. I

5:21

know. My

5:23

comes up for move. To as was

5:25

normal came out of idol more. Knew

5:28

we were going to get into a little bit of

5:30

me. And I just love that we are all

5:32

kind of. These drones is sending it out to the people

5:34

were like whatever you say those of how whatever you make

5:36

up in your bedroom while you're eating burgers and. Officer.

5:38

For the size of your nose either. Way. It and

5:40

then she exploded into this kind of

5:43

zaner of bending. I had it very

5:45

much. child of the internet had all

5:47

of the my spaces up to the

5:50

you know except that we have now.

5:52

And should be clear. I mean, like you know

5:54

we're going to be, you know, talking about those

5:56

again as we dive into her music. But like

5:58

street actually been signed. The for me like

6:00

she had been side to an actual label. And.

6:03

He knows you soon or this weird stuff like

6:05

hip hop world and my space the like. she

6:08

was signed before yeah you know she ever had

6:10

sort of like the We're Up To i doubt

6:12

I think that only known as Africa. Scam

6:14

honey. my parents also scam where

6:16

was like i'm just a girly

6:18

in my regular apartments just like

6:20

our and obsess over here with

6:22

like probably thousands of dollars worth

6:24

of equipment. But we don't know what that

6:26

have caused. You do right in luxury seducer

6:28

So as insisting so you think is like

6:30

I've I've kind of grown up. I've My

6:32

sampson of her is as he came up,

6:34

exactly as you put it, like almost like.

6:36

in my mind I'm kind of think there's

6:38

like a through line, a little bit like

6:40

see and Luna. Zack's are kind of in

6:43

a similar realm of light, coming from internet,

6:45

performative and really knowing the language of the

6:47

internet and being involved deeply and like the

6:49

music is almost like it could have been

6:51

something else. They could have their sort of

6:53

members and away their meaning within the game.

6:55

Always. So do you think that that was

6:57

a French he was putting? I like to see does

6:59

have a little bit of a. With. Her

7:01

background does seem to have a little bit alike. Privilege

7:04

of that's figure. Sounds like you're kind of referring

7:06

to would. Yeah, I mean is in with

7:08

the Alice sharing that like she was already

7:10

signed What I'm saying more as I do

7:12

this to i am I gonna vote like

7:15

the pair social relationship with your fan and

7:17

I don't think it's too far with as

7:19

if you open the door they they walk

7:21

and name of that says like I keep

7:24

out with the wind on black schools. Like

7:27

creating that kind of

7:30

us. Then. Take relationship with our

7:32

fans and knowing how like you said

7:34

let's you to communicate on the internet

7:36

like it does. Create this. Like.

7:38

Authentic taxes. It doesn't seem like an industry planet,

7:40

doesn't seem like something that's been shot down your

7:43

throat it like we all got to see likely

7:45

organically sounds as a we all know the people

7:47

who really love music. I know they keep like

7:49

that but I do. So very special This like

7:52

Allison See or Mix tapes and now you pop

7:54

idol. Hey are you a pop and I do?

7:56

You chart toppers? you know. I love the House

7:58

of Balloons from the week. right? Now

8:09

it's at a time I'm still my favorite

8:11

thing by his yeah my everything's issue isn't

8:13

like and asia thing. Of yours Seven when

8:15

he was like automobile mother's as a guy came

8:18

through their. No, I don't understand the

8:20

baby frozen the balloon about. The

8:22

I was there are so far as I know. That was

8:24

she's and I could sue. Fans are sticking with

8:26

or through the highs lows the like popular the

8:28

unpopular Cf executive see you sound like one of

8:30

the to fans that she would be trying to

8:32

like sick off site like design and reason titled.

8:35

To people that I'm probably also because

8:37

I work in this industry. The lights

8:39

are also entitled to people's work or

8:41

who they are wet away would projected

8:43

onto them with i think that's really

8:45

and family. though

8:49

some as the target. Of

8:51

your true fan of them. Are you there for the

8:53

journey right? Are you know how

8:55

I want to put it out there? You.

8:57

Know just to make it very clear she

8:59

was sign and twenty fourteen look at to

9:01

Chemo Sabi Records as not I'm so label

9:03

Yeah exactly. Ah where your son's rigid and

9:06

I have gas and they had a song

9:08

called so High and it was featured on

9:10

Empire and As but the be sort of

9:12

a breakout united it did something right in

9:14

a didn't do a as as entire a

9:16

desert a whole lot of put it on.

9:19

Like there's so much music on Empire. Like

9:21

the say. I now have dropped activities. Salah

9:25

were nicer Reruns on Empire that's

9:27

true. Season passes Insurgents ever it's

9:29

owner with a to break the

9:31

first. However, with and I'm as

9:33

I have to point out. So.

9:35

After she leaves that labels use reason

9:37

signs owed you make of label I

9:39

did not notice before returning from evidence.

9:41

For those who don't know owes you

9:43

may go is he he's very sort

9:45

of mid twenty teams. Are. Famous

9:47

for the songs, you guessed it was just with

9:50

really brief snippet of that. You.

10:00

Ramallah. I mean paralysis. use

10:02

it for specific whenever a

10:04

mouse as as a solo.

10:07

Yellow light busy Guess. You was

10:09

rise up his you was right I was like

10:11

visited so if I do so simple and I'm

10:13

I'm proud to say I'm the piano player on

10:16

how are you as here I am the nog

10:18

you know had a do hundred known to plumes

10:20

that is not for my success but I did

10:22

I say this I was emails gray bragging rights

10:25

to be with with one another planet me about.

10:28

How are you putting his assistants like that

10:30

Doing that? Yeah, I suddenly economically bear arms.

10:33

As you sonos you may go believe in

10:35

an allergy make who could not breaker big.

10:39

Herself big, we're going to talk about Moon

10:41

a second. The right now than the current

10:43

moment doesn't have has hit a creative high

10:45

points. Per Zenith if

10:47

you will. Ah, she dropped her album Scarlet

10:49

last year and twenty two, a brief lesser

10:52

I know you been listening to start the

10:54

recently Lazy. I'm sure you've already heard it's

10:56

a. List. Or we the luxuries. What

10:58

does he think of of Scott? I gotta admit

11:00

like she's becoming one of my favorite artists. and

11:03

I think maybe this happens when tunneling into an

11:05

artist and you start to get all the nuance.

11:07

But in particular there's something about those efforts or

11:09

the music. I love the music musically speaking like

11:11

sassoon. really cool stuff like mixing rap and like

11:14

she's like playing with different characters and different voices

11:16

like as us into the first song Attention. I

11:18

think that was first single from Scarlets and I

11:20

was like it sounded a lot like there's one

11:22

cadence where she's like it. I thought it was.

11:25

A ladybug mecca from Dig Will planets you

11:27

know and in a deserted jumping around is

11:29

different tactic and selling a lot as if

11:31

they can access you sound like a lot

11:33

from people. The music takes a lot of

11:35

twists and turns on allies and as a

11:37

person I was just drawn in by the

11:39

charisma of this human I was just like

11:41

and I just really like her as a

11:43

person which is the core of what a

11:45

pop star is is what they're doing at

11:47

heart is is there persona they're going on

11:49

for the ride and what they're doing visually

11:51

and musically and kind of in the culture

11:53

is all a part of that package. but it

11:55

comes down to the percent some really attracted to the

11:57

person as a person like i want to hang out

12:00

Doja you find doja cat attractive we got it

12:02

as a first non-play That

12:05

was way too eloquent. I had to step in with my silliness. What

12:07

do you think about? What do you

12:09

think about scarlet? I love scarlet It

12:12

very much gives me like early aughts

12:14

of Lady Gaga's career You

12:17

know like a lot of shock a lot

12:19

of camp a lot of like big swings

12:21

and things that we've seen before But kind

12:23

of bends on their head a little bit,

12:26

you know Starla got

12:28

body hood I mean so

12:30

it's still sexy. Yeah, but it's also just

12:32

like, you know kind of weird and androgynous

12:34

and like dark But like in a way

12:36

that's still giving me pop. It's just giving

12:39

me like Lady Gaga meat dress, you know

12:41

I'm so glad you said Lady Gaga cuz like

12:43

I didn't want to interrupt But like just really

12:45

quickly on that point when I said Lil Nas

12:47

X to me, there's like a through line There's

12:50

a lot of artists in here But like I

12:52

think from Bowie to Gaga to Lil Nas X

12:54

and to doja There's a connection where again its

12:56

music is important, but it's not everything. There's the

12:58

persona There is the like

13:00

what they look like what they dress

13:03

how they communicate in public performance art.

13:05

Thank you It feels like performance art

13:07

of which music is an important part,

13:09

but not the only thing Yeah But

13:11

the sex are the things that last with us

13:13

forever like you think purple you think Prince you

13:15

think of that phallic and par you know what

13:17

I mean, like those things are also a part

13:19

of the performance and Unfortunately

13:21

now that we don't have as much artist development

13:24

happening in music It's like they they get it

13:26

they pluck a girl out or whatever Just

13:30

do it two step whatever, you know, and

13:32

it's like we're happy with that because consumerism

13:34

and like our attention spans are so short

13:36

That we're like, okay. Yes Give

13:39

us nothing It's

13:41

nice to see someone who's put some thought into it and

13:43

put a little Genuine and it

13:46

makes it more sustainable because we all can name can think

13:48

of artists that I won't name where you can sort of

13:50

like Mix and match what they sing with who they are

13:52

and they they don't really have that hold on pop culture

13:54

And that's all that is what's happening behind the scenes. By

13:56

the way, a lot of these songs are kind of like

13:58

being Traded from one artist

14:00

to the next and it all doesn't matter. That's

14:03

right. But with Doja, it all feels to me at

14:05

least. It feels a lot more like an authentic artist

14:07

at the core of it. I like what you said

14:10

about like, you know, artist development because she got signed

14:12

in 2014. Like, think about it. She's

14:15

been getting developed. She

14:17

feels like she just got here, but she was signed

14:19

10 years ago. And I think that's important

14:21

maybe to some of the listeners out there who are trying to

14:23

break. Like, it takes some time

14:25

even after you think you made it to actually

14:28

blub. But if I can get my own take

14:30

on Scarlett, what I actually liked about it is,

14:32

you know, her plan of her was like a

14:34

pop record. There's a lot of

14:36

actual rapping going on on Scarlett. Like, just the fact

14:39

that she's got a song called like 97, like, she

14:41

was like, I want to

14:44

let people know that I am a rapper. You know what

14:46

I mean? Like, I really feel

14:48

like Scarlett at its core is

14:50

a retort to anyone who didn't take her seriously as a

14:52

rapper. In fact, back when Twitter was

14:54

still called Twitter. I'm

14:57

still listening. I'm glad. I'm

14:59

going to call you with your momma. She

15:01

was working on Scarlett and she said,

15:03

and I quote, don't ever fucking disrespect

15:05

me as a rapper. After

15:07

the last song drop, you will respect

15:09

my pin and that's fucking that. And

15:11

I got to say, as somebody who writes stuff, bravo

15:14

to you. I'm going to start talking to the studios

15:16

like that. After the last, I

15:18

submit it to y'all. Y'all will respect

15:20

me as a rapper. At

15:22

the very least. Respect

15:24

my pin. I'm

15:27

good. I need to write a rap script. Anyway,

15:29

after it's released, the album was lauded by critics

15:31

and widely regarded as Doja's best work and a

15:33

showcase for her skills as a rapper. And that's

15:36

now. But I want to rewind this back

15:38

to 2018 when a lot of people first

15:40

became familiar with Doja. Lacey, you touched

15:42

on this earlier. It was because of

15:44

this song. It is the

15:47

famous, maybe infamous, Moo. Moo.

15:56

Moo. Moo. Moo.

16:02

Those of you watching on YouTube just got

16:05

a great show and Lacey great hat by

16:07

the way. We said we were talking

16:09

to Doja so I have to bring some interview. No you have to

16:11

and I love it. I love it. Listen,

16:13

I know some of our listeners don't know Doja Cat

16:15

that well and they definitely have not heard Moods so

16:17

they're probably like what the hell is happening on one

16:19

song today? But we're so happy

16:21

to be talking about this because this is

16:23

a song that I think had you know

16:25

one intention when it came out but like

16:27

among you know younger hip hop listeners. She

16:30

wrote this like on a live stream or something. I

16:33

watched that live stream and she wrote it. When it was

16:35

happening? Yeah because I was following her and

16:37

I really loved her in her bedroom. She would wear

16:39

the cutest outfits and it was

16:41

very like anime girly and also she was

16:43

like playing music. So when this song

16:45

dropped you were aware of it. You were

16:47

there when you were watching it. Yes I was there. You watched

16:50

this get mad so dope. But one thing that

16:52

I really loved about Moo and I think why it

16:54

was so catchy is like you know when you get

16:56

like a sample track or something sometimes like like remember

16:58

when Kanye did this to Drake on a song that

17:01

he was supposed to give to him and it was

17:03

like oh. Gippity doo. Gippity doo.

17:06

Woop. Scoot. Like I actually know the

17:08

whole thing we did a bit for a skit show but the whole point is

17:10

like this is the beat. This is

17:12

where the words should be. The syllables. Right.

17:15

It's doing placeholder stuff but that works. Yeah. And

17:19

so Cal to me feels like campy placeholder.

17:21

Yeah. Where it's like you would

17:23

have loved the song like that. Nope bitch.

17:25

Got feet. Got steak. Hope. Got

17:28

cheeks. You're feeling the

17:30

motion of it more than the words. Listen

17:33

we always. Black Eyed Peas is great at that. Come

17:36

on now. Absolutely. All these songs are like. That's

17:38

a great observation. Like what are we doing? It's

17:40

such a testament to like the power of improvisation

17:42

and the power of just like trusting your gut

17:44

and your instinct. Because that was first

17:46

idea best idea right. Isn't that what we're supposed

17:48

to be. I always come back to the Beatles

17:50

scrambled eggs. Yeah. Scrambled eggs become

17:52

yesterday. Oh my darling how I love your legs.

17:55

That was the beginning of yesterday. A Lot of

17:57

people didn't take Dodger Cat seriously as an artist

17:59

because of this song. I think looking

18:01

back it's not fair because like you said

18:03

it's all just the creation of like the

18:05

syllables fall weather, the the fourth lesser you

18:07

have the stamps for the song and I

18:09

just wanted to play odds is to preside

18:11

over kind of wild. so this is. Something.

18:14

I never noticed that I heard it

18:16

isolated. Six this out from the stems

18:19

of move. I'm excited. And.

18:31

Now I never noticed how much

18:33

like Soldier Boy with Earth with

18:36

the long vowel sound like a

18:38

long vowel sounds as to get

18:40

really reluctant to move he ran

18:42

with. Those are cat

18:44

up in this so light you not that was some to

18:46

the jumped out to me and then one other thing I'd

18:48

be like. I knew that there

18:50

was a sample in there, but

18:52

now to hear it you know.

18:55

Played this is Polka Dots and

18:57

Moonbeams by Was Montgomery The song

18:59

that Underlies move. Six. Isn't.

19:09

Any so beautiful red,

19:11

Sampling the juxtaposition of

19:13

context doesn't move. In

19:16

mood that sounds so fuckin' silly professor

19:18

and like simplistic and dumb like in

19:21

the best possible way. And then it's

19:23

like this. like whereas men was New

19:25

York nightclub and sixty. There's something about

19:28

this is a West Missouri. Classes as

19:30

guitar and plot. I relied. Yeah.

19:32

That this and and nothing at a never thought about a

19:34

cow or have a. Right

19:37

hand side with it's. Also. It's it's really

19:39

good at those and left the trolls and yes

19:41

out of the internet. So it's like you got

19:43

trolled by. listen to the songs you didn't know.

19:45

Had Westland every as a sample to to the

19:47

know how audio background I think he stands. It

19:49

sets a. Youth I was in I'm a. Little

19:51

Ditty Bomb added flags this was white

19:54

American be and I also really loved

19:56

advertised in the terms of like maybe

19:58

not being taken seriously. and language that

20:00

you use through music and through art to

20:02

speak things to people. It's

20:04

like her saying like, you

20:07

think I'm goofy, but if

20:09

you were actually smart, you wouldn't know how

20:11

smart I am. Right. Yeah. You

20:13

got to be smart to know how silly this

20:15

is. Exactly. And it's like, I love that shit.

20:17

Like, even in fashion as an

20:19

actress, like when I go on a carpet or a

20:21

show or whatever, I talk to my stylist that I'm

20:23

working about, about what are we trying to say when

20:25

I walk in this room? And that's how

20:27

we make the outfit. We start with the communication.

20:30

And so it's like every little thing you see,

20:32

like if you are really an artist, it's not

20:34

by accident. No. I always say

20:36

that things like The Simpsons

20:38

and Conan O'Brien, they're really

20:41

dumb jokes for smart people. But

20:44

I just flashed on something when you said that. I saw this like

20:46

TikTok the other day where someone pointed out, it

20:49

was just like a woman in her car going

20:51

like, I'm so tired of you. Like, so she

20:53

points out how like childish can be, like when

20:55

rappers say it, when rappers say puns,

20:57

they're like super clever. But like when we say

20:59

it, they're like dad jokes. Dad jokes. Exactly. It's

21:02

a dad joke. The line between dad joke and

21:04

like, and there's a childish Gambino line about like

21:06

something, something, Acme and then it's like, you know,

21:08

cartoon characters. It's really not fair. I always said

21:10

like, when my 20s I used to dress like

21:13

a grandad. But then somewhere when I hit my

21:15

40s, dressing like a grandad, people just think you're

21:17

a grandad. It's not fair. Context

21:19

is everything. Yeah. Because we call it postal

21:21

grandma. And we're like,

21:24

oh my God, I'm giving Diane Keaton walking on a

21:26

beach. Oh, that's the line between corny,

21:28

the line between dad joke and profundity. Is

21:31

all context. Profundity, Zenith, you know,

21:33

come for the songs. Stay for

21:35

the vocabulary. When

21:37

did, when did Doja stop being the rapper

21:41

with a song about Kowsi? Like, in other words,

21:43

when did she stop trolling and really get rapping?

21:45

And like, do you have like a favorite Doja

21:47

Cat song? It's

21:49

funny because she's kind of like disparaged her pop

21:51

girl era. And I was like, this isn't it.

21:53

And I feel like that's just

21:56

her artistically trying to get to the point where

21:58

people are like, realize like, I'm smart. But

22:00

I think it was really good. At us

22:02

but I think even the such susannah

22:04

throw a lot of for me. It

22:06

was like I love streets see I'm

22:09

in love with Pandemic like everybody was.

22:11

Later we were and it's hard to dress and

22:13

then they lights off and put the red lights

22:15

on and. Amazes!

22:18

Love series of the As Like and

22:20

also on Cyber on the Say So

22:22

Girly I love Say So it makes

22:24

me feel Good Ice. Is likely yeah with

22:26

your voices list. little been streets a lot

22:28

of people by know the another. He does

22:31

it informed us from a good you've ever

22:33

spent any time on two thirds you do

22:35

no wrong. It is as trees bud Years

22:37

ago. We

22:53

just had our make out tape episode. Will

22:55

return Kubo my good Saudi may go with

22:57

your better have but I will say. Was.

23:00

Other that we made of the tape

23:02

with my wife and I need to

23:04

know Love your wife needs no gonna

23:06

tell you tell us com after the

23:08

break will start painting the town ribs

23:10

and get into the origin story of

23:13

the song. Example: Walk on by know

23:15

but see here to walk on by

23:17

stay in the parking spaces it's walk

23:19

away. The name of the songs this

23:21

terrifying preferred in Laughlin. there's another you

23:23

ever says that. This

23:31

is obscene year. The Ohio

23:34

Lotteries Golden Anniversary, Sixty years

23:36

of excitement of growing jackpot

23:38

and Cross Hundred fifty years

23:40

the funding for schools have

23:42

changed lives in Brighton Day.

23:44

Fifty years of fun and

23:46

that is worth celebrating. Watch

23:49

her fitness promotion huge events

23:51

in new gains that will

23:53

make the Ohio Lotteries this

23:55

he is near his biggest

23:57

ones. no more had been

24:00

Welcome

24:09

back to one song. Okay, so Luxury, Paint

24:11

the Town Red, makes heavy use of a

24:14

sample. Talk us through that wonderful

24:16

sample and how Doja and her producers make

24:18

it their own. All right, well, I'm excited

24:20

to talk about this track because what's cool

24:22

about it, one of the many things that's

24:24

cool about it, is the way that Doja

24:26

interacts with the sample. So the sample is

24:28

in the background, but the voice of Dionne

24:30

Warwick on the track, on her famous song,

24:32

Walk on By, from 1964, kind of acts,

24:34

there's a little bit of a call and

24:36

response going on between. So I really love

24:38

the interaction, it's like a dialogue between 1964 and

24:40

present day, I mean

24:42

Doja and Dionne, on Pdion. It's

24:45

exactly 60 years ago. To

24:48

me it's so weird that like a song

24:50

that resonated with like listeners' ears in

24:52

1964. You think

24:54

about what the cars look like, how everything

24:56

smelled like smoke, you know, like how

24:58

if you wanted to see a movie, you had to wait

25:00

until it was back in theaters. And the use of the

25:03

sample evokes all of that, right? Yes, just a little bit

25:05

of the sonic. 60 years later, it's still resonating with people.

25:07

It's crazy, right? Do

25:21

you want to say anything about 1964? I

25:23

mean, those are some of my favorite

25:25

moments like in that time and era when, you know, the

25:28

women were still smoking and drinking when they were pregnant,

25:30

okay? The government

25:32

had warned us, yes. Very thin, cigarette and

25:34

older, right? So fancy and long. And

25:37

also like, I know we're going to get

25:39

more into this, but I also feel like

25:41

the lyrics in Doja's song kind of like,

25:43

the sentiment of it is still like, I

25:45

don't think it's just a sample that they

25:47

chose because it sounded good. It's also the

25:49

message, you know? If

25:51

you see me walking down the

25:54

street and I start to cry,

25:56

each time we meet, walk on And

26:02

it's like in her song she's like, bitch,

26:04

I said what I said. Walk on

26:06

by. Walk on by, because this

26:08

is what we doing. It is absolutely, the

26:10

connection, there are connections between songs and whether

26:13

she like felt it from just the sample,

26:15

which I, my theory would be actually that

26:17

that's baked in. Part of

26:19

the beauty of sampling is that that sentiment gets

26:21

kind of baked into the sound. She just got,

26:23

well get into the specifics in a minute, but

26:25

from the loop, from that two bar loop, all

26:28

of that is still there, even though the song

26:30

is three minutes long with many twists and turns

26:32

and beautiful chord changes and such. Without

26:35

further ado, we're going to get into it. Let's

26:37

talk about how this sample was made. Let's do

26:39

it. Today we are talking on

26:41

one song about Doja Cat, Paint the Town Red,

26:44

but we're actually talking about two songs. This is

26:46

a two song episode of one song, I think.

26:48

So the second song is the sample source. Walk

26:50

on by, such a prominent part of what we

26:52

hear when we hear Paint the Town Red, that

26:54

it deserves its own little backstory. So let's talk

26:56

a little bit about Walk on By. This is

26:59

a song composed by Burt

27:01

Bacharach and Hal David, two songwriters

27:03

who are massively important in American

27:05

music history. In the 60s,

27:07

actually they meet in the 50s at the Brill Building, which is a

27:09

famous building in New York where a lot of songwriting teams got together

27:11

and wrote some of the classic songs of the 50s

27:13

and 60s. They met there,

27:15

they formed a bond as Bacharach is the

27:18

music composer, and Hal David is the

27:20

lyricist. So as a team, they would

27:22

literally, their job at the Brill Building is to crank out

27:24

songs every day. They would just song,

27:26

song, song, song, song. Their connection was incredible, and

27:29

they wrote a bunch of hits that we have

27:31

all heard a million times. I'll just name a

27:33

few. This is only scratching the surface. They wrote,

27:35

Raindrops Keep Falling on My Head from Butch Casting

27:37

the Sundance Kid. Do you know the way to

27:39

San Jose? What the world needs now is love.

27:42

Sweet love is

27:45

the only thing that's

27:47

there. But, sweet love

27:50

is the only thing that's there.

27:53

Some other songs are always something there to remind

27:56

me. You 80s kids would know

27:58

The Naked Eyes remake of that song. What's

28:00

New Pussycat, which is Tom Jones' famous

28:02

song, which I always think of John Mulaney

28:04

now because he has a joke about What's New Pussycat. I

28:06

could go on and on. Well, you

28:08

left out one of my favorites, which is You're Just

28:11

Too Good to Be True. I mean, let's

28:13

name a few more. We've covered by Lauren

28:15

Hill, famously. You're just too good

28:17

to be true. I'm

28:20

not too good to be true. Feel

28:23

like heaven is not heaven. I

28:25

wanna roll my heart. They

28:29

long to be close to you, the look of love. Look

28:32

of love is fantastic. It's so good. There's not

28:34

a lot of bad songs in this kind of

28:36

love. No. Oh, wow. I

28:39

love her background. Yeah. So in

28:41

1961, Backrack and David meet Dionne Warwick. She's

28:43

a background singer on the track they're working

28:45

on, and they, quote unquote, discover her,

28:47

as one would say at the time. They

28:50

work together for about 20 years, 12 million

28:52

records sold in their collaborations, and 38 singles

28:55

that make the charts. Twenty-two, our top

28:57

40s. Walk on by is one of

28:59

them, but also anyone who had a heart, I say a

29:02

little prayer. I'll never fall in love again. Do

29:05

you know the way to San Jose? And Dionne Warwick herself

29:08

deserves a little bit of shine. This

29:10

is a woman who won a Grammy for... She

29:12

deserves all the shine. All the shine. That's

29:14

Twitter on TV. She deserves all the shine. And I

29:16

love her niece Brittany Warwick. That's who got her on

29:18

Twitter. And that became iconic

29:20

and then SNL. So mommy's

29:22

still relevant to this day, but I also love

29:24

that the Whitney Houston family, all of them, so

29:26

many of them were background singers. That's

29:28

right. They're very famous background singers. Dionne

29:30

Warwick is... So here it is. Yes.

29:35

Which is because Dionne Warwick and Whitney

29:37

Houston's mother, Sissy, were sisters.

29:39

So their first cousin's right there. Wonderful.

29:43

These three musicians are... How

29:45

much wonderful music has come out of this

29:47

collaboration? Can I just say, as a side

29:50

note, one of my favorite Dionne

29:52

Warwick songs of all time is the song

29:54

You're Gonna Need Me, which was famously sampled

29:57

by Jay Diller. Here's just a small piece

29:59

of music. piece of that real quick. And

30:01

this is shout out to my exes.

30:07

I mean, I can listen to that song.

30:15

I can too. Oh my goodness. They're

30:18

a dream team. They capture

30:20

a sound from the 60s that doesn't always

30:22

get mentioned when you hear all the Phil

30:25

Spector talk and all that stuff. But to

30:27

me, this is a part of that glossy,

30:30

clean, big sound. I just imagine

30:32

a day of Capitol Records, that

30:34

iconic building. You've got

30:36

these instrumentalists and you've

30:38

got just this amazing voice

30:41

and these amazing arrangements and lyrics.

30:44

They're a dream team. They all bring such talents

30:46

to the pool too. I mean, Bacharach, just to

30:48

spend one more moment on him because he's such

30:50

an important iconic composer in American history, what he's

30:52

bringing into pop music is a lot of jazz

30:54

like chord changes. Putting choices

30:56

for bars that he'll add like half a

30:58

bar or maybe add an entire bar rather

31:01

than having the four bar, eight bar phrasing

31:03

and looping. All these little innovations

31:05

that make the music special because it hesitates

31:07

or pauses or that's something unexpected. And he's putting

31:09

it in pop music in the 60s. And

31:12

that's how you know that it has longevity.

31:14

I feel like interpolation and samples get

31:16

too much shade. Michael Jackson

31:19

loved to interpolate music. Not

31:21

on this show. We love that spot. But

31:23

I also love the juxtaposition of the sounds

31:25

in a lot of these songs, especially Dionne

31:27

Warwick's where you're hearing these thick,

31:30

bassy, you want to move your

31:32

body. Like streets, when that beat

31:34

drops, it's like, boom. It's

31:36

something, it evokes an emotion of feeling in your body.

31:39

But sometimes it's juxtaposed

31:41

with Dionne being in

31:43

her higher register or whatever. So it's like

31:45

this lightness to it too. You

31:48

can listen over and over again and then I

31:50

love hearing it in other music. And

31:52

I think the real testament is if black

31:55

people want to step up your music, if we want

31:57

to step up your music, then you know what I

31:59

mean? The that as the way it out.

32:01

Whoop! I feel like limited. That could result. I

32:04

think is I you know, is blessed with

32:06

a messy sixty years later when it's got

32:08

something to contribute to the modern day to

32:10

the modern, come on isn't which is what

32:12

happens. In. This on so I'm going to

32:14

play for a minute. We're gonna look at Doses

32:16

Paint, the town's use of the sample. But first,

32:19

a real quick breakdown about the actual song itself.

32:23

As long. As

32:37

it is as. Low

32:40

as well as they go by kind of with

32:42

us amassing as. a

32:47

result as we ever read more but

32:49

of the of second a bit of

32:52

a. Lazy

32:55

A Giving it away Prove this

32:57

for the studio. For

33:00

that matter, I love it. I'm surprised

33:02

though. by sample their piano. I mean,

33:04

I'm sure they have it right now.

33:06

I hear the internet firing up at.

33:09

Home but it i haven't heard a problem

33:12

for of my husband is area. There's so

33:14

many wonderful parts their yeah and by the

33:16

way I love a zombie can puts you

33:18

in a setting is almost like it's own

33:20

time seem like as see singing I can.

33:22

See has his dress. I. Can see

33:24

like a crowded bus in Manhattan, The

33:26

Macys Sixty four like that that the

33:28

texture on the clothes likes it really

33:30

plants you firmly in that year. yeah

33:32

I feel is so evocative of exactly

33:34

what you're describing. It's very cinematic that

33:36

is was near Obama. yeah. So.

33:40

Cut to present day and the story of

33:42

how that song that we the Surge walk

33:44

on by got incorporated into the Dogs or

33:46

Cats on Paint The Town Reading the Tell

33:48

you That story Now It begins with Url

33:50

on the Beat the producer he's out of

33:53

Atlanta he done I work with Quality Control.

33:55

Artist. Like Little Yacht, Evil Baby and

33:57

City Girls work and down so added.

34:00

How did he come to know? Don't get. So.

34:03

He had met don't Get A Grammy Party

34:05

and the have been working on a bunch

34:07

of tracks and he's like i gotta get

34:09

something to her like right away you know

34:11

cat cat cats the seats So he had

34:13

just discovered or had recently discovered couple years

34:15

go the Dionne Warwick catalog and he heard

34:17

it actually perfect an accent because he had

34:19

heard the Us or the Us. A little

34:21

resembles the song you you're Going To Want

34:24

Me Back with. We actually know that some

34:26

as other throwbacks feature in jail because it

34:28

goes like this assumes. That

34:43

so I just perfectly illustrates though like the

34:46

beauty of sampling and it's reuse and the

34:48

discovery as gas because literally Url on the

34:50

Beat discovered the on work because of that

34:52

song yes rights which meant that that song

34:54

as the our you're going to Need Me

34:56

Yet heard it on the Us or track

34:58

and decided in his quote his status as

35:00

Good as Voice is this and he went

35:03

through her to sovereignty and is fun things

35:05

to top and one of them was walk

35:07

on by and when he meadow to characters

35:09

grammy parties like that's what you center the

35:11

next day she hopped on the beat and.

35:13

This is the story of this is the story

35:15

of Paint the town read times ran for nice

35:18

Gov wrestler have to think the answer yes or.

35:21

So. And. Actually it should be

35:23

noted by the way we just talked about

35:25

Burt Bacharach, how David the writers of Walk

35:27

On by a Dionne Warwick with singer kind

35:29

of funny story about how see learned of

35:31

the doge a cat use. Because.

35:34

see is not technically today in financially oh

35:36

man unfortunately to that walk i'm on a

35:39

log on that are a season it

35:41

online or on the process he only learned

35:43

about it when her granddaughter told her that

35:45

the song exists is a gram i heard

35:47

your voice on us whereas yeah that's when

35:50

she jumped on twitter that's what she dumped

35:52

on twitter and of other video went on

35:54

the on the kelly clarkson so instead i

35:57

i love it i just loved tampering and

35:59

bring and bringing my song to a new

36:01

generation. But the

36:03

flip side of it is not having been cut

36:05

in. She just didn't know it existed until someone

36:07

told her, which is one of the stories that

36:10

happen in samples that I'm not crazy about, unfortunately,

36:12

when the performer didn't, I don't know that Dionne

36:14

Warwick's making a lot of money from this is

36:16

my point. Maybe from a few more streams on

36:18

Spotify, but for the most part, it's the Bacharach

36:21

and David Estates that are earning the coin, because

36:23

they're both dead. That's

36:25

a sad note to end things on. I realize that

36:27

everyone just got really silent on them. I

36:30

was just like super enthralled. I didn't realize it,

36:32

okay. But you know what? She's the one I

36:35

have. First hand, relatives, cut her in. All

36:37

right, so I'm gonna walk you through just a little

36:39

bit of how the sample was used. It's really interesting

36:41

because in the first place, I'm gonna play for you

36:44

the original song. This is the portion of Walk on

36:46

By, which is sampled. And actually the loop that was

36:48

used and how it was integrated in Doja Cat's Paint

36:50

the Town is really interesting. So this is a really

36:53

quick walkthrough. Here is Walk on By, this is Dionne

36:55

Warwick. What's interesting though is that the actual loop is

37:00

a little bit awkward, like the brackets of the beginning and

37:02

end of the loop. I'll play it for you. It's

37:04

kind of in the middle of all of that. So it starts in the

37:06

middle of one piece and ends in the middle. Here is the actual loop.

37:09

And here's the loop. It's

37:11

like the earlier by. Yeah. Right?

37:14

And that is the... It's noticeable. It's

37:16

noticeable and there's also a little thing that they

37:19

add and I'm gonna play... I'm gonna now move from...

37:21

That was the original Walk on By. Now I'll

37:23

move to the use of it in the song. So

37:25

here's the instrumental, the Doja Cat instrumental. And you can

37:27

hear that loop is a little different already. And

37:31

then you can see that it's a little bit awkward. And

37:34

then you can see that it's a little bit awkward. And

37:37

then you can see that it's a little bit awkward.

37:40

And then you can see that it's a little bit awkward. And

37:44

then the second time around, here's where things get really... Yeah,

37:46

they double it up a little bit, almost to like make it

37:48

fit. Here's where things get really interesting. In this second version, there's

37:51

also like a slight variation on that loop. That

38:00

was the intro that you heard. The second time around and

38:02

through most of the song, it has a

38:05

few parts that were added to it. They're very subtle, but I'll play

38:07

it for you now. You

38:10

hear like in the background? Yeah.

38:17

Sort of backup trumpet. So,

38:20

I went through the entire original sample multiple times.

38:22

That's not in the original. That

38:24

was baked in by the producer, by Earl on

38:26

the beat, to make it sound like it was

38:28

in the original sample. Really subtle production trick to

38:30

kind of EQ it to make it sound like

38:32

an AM radio. But he was adding, he's adding

38:34

two parts there. He's adding two

38:36

little melodic wah, wah, wah, and

38:38

there's like a keyboard there. Really,

38:41

really cool subtle things. I

38:43

love it. This is, this is sampling as an art

38:45

form, is what I'm saying. This happens a few times throughout

38:47

the track. I'll play you one more version of that because

38:50

yes, there is a loop, but these

38:52

subtle variations, these subtle enhancements make it's

38:54

running through the whole song, what

38:56

makes the song sort of sing and vibrate and

38:59

have motion to it, have some emotion to it.

39:01

Emotion and motion. So

39:10

that's sort of bridge section. He's added another

39:13

kind of layer of synths and melodies that

39:15

are, again, very subtle, but they add a

39:17

little lift. Yes,

39:19

I can hear it. Oh,

39:24

that's beautiful. Again,

39:27

that is not from the original sample, but

39:29

it really feels like it is. It's just

39:31

like he's trying to give it like a coating. He's like,

39:33

this is an old song, y'all. You

39:35

know how like you take a, when you're in grade

39:37

school and they'd be like make an old-timey project and you

39:39

put your little paper in the oven and be like, listen,

39:41

this is going to be old. What if I put tea

39:43

bags all over it's going to look hell-old. Parchment.

39:46

You want to make it look like parchment. Yes, you want to

39:48

make it look like parchment. So I feel like that's going to

39:50

be like, y'all, it's real old. It's old. It gives it some

39:52

film grain. You put a filter on it. Put a filter on

39:54

it. So in addition to the sample and

39:56

the loop and all those little variations,

39:58

Earl. or on

40:00

the beat added a Bass

40:03

and kick that are the same thing in other words This is an

40:05

808 kick drum that gives it

40:07

the bass content Anyone who's ever used

40:09

an 808 knows that there are you

40:11

for the best instruments of all time You

40:13

can tune the kick drum and it can

40:15

be simultaneously Fulfilling the goal

40:17

of what your kick does boom-boom, but also

40:20

giving it like a bass note. So that's

40:22

what we're hearing It's one thing doing two

40:24

things And

40:34

then he added some snaps as well And

40:47

then you could use that combination to create like

40:49

95% of your pop hip-hop So

40:52

when you put all that together with the sample,

40:54

it sounds like this Actually,

41:05

let me just back up because I was playing

41:07

with some new stemming technology So I was able

41:09

to separate in the sample the instrument from the

41:11

vocal. So let's hear that There's

41:21

just Dion isolated there's the full

41:23

sample. There's

41:25

the 808 And

41:28

here we go with the Nothing

41:31

high Is

41:34

the musical truck we've got 1964 in there We've

41:36

got 808 spring like the history of

41:38

hip-hop in there, right? Cuz when you use an

41:41

808 you kind of invoke 40 50 year old

41:43

I guess 40 years of 808 bass

41:45

hip-hop Yeah, and last but not least we've

41:47

got doja. So let's talk about doja's vocal

41:50

Let's talk about those doja vocals, bitch I

41:53

said when they said I'd rather be

41:55

famous I let

41:57

all that get to my head. I don't

41:59

care I think you know again

42:01

one thing I really liked about the

42:04

album Scarlett in general is like I

42:06

am putting to rest anybody's You know

42:08

critique that oh, she's a pop singer. She's not

42:10

a rapper You know, I think

42:12

that this song and you know, she's

42:15

she's she's got good rhymes in here. I

42:17

love I Believe it's the

42:19

second verse in this song like a

42:21

lot and maybe we can hear a little bit of those vocals

42:30

I know I

42:36

mean Like

42:40

it's just like it brings them out of your body I

42:47

can't smoke here. Oh, that's a reference

42:49

to the Mac Alla. Yeah where she was vaping and

42:51

they were like Okay, you may

42:53

love it everything she says in

42:56

that little section is a lot

42:58

of it is referencing The

43:00

controversy things that we've caught on social

43:02

media. Yeah, you gonna catch me sleeping

43:04

at court side And

43:17

then also with you know walk on

43:20

by Here

43:23

walk on by girl And

43:27

you mentioned it earlier is the fact that she's

43:29

duetting with the sample Yeah, you know

43:31

and you mentioned it earlier. I mean, I love

43:33

it when she's duetting with Dion Dion Warwick There's

43:37

the Nicki Minaj song everybody

43:39

which samples junior seniors Move

43:42

your feet, which is one of my favorite I

44:02

love it when hip-hop, there's the

44:04

whole song where Ghostface doesn't even take the

44:07

lyrics out. It literally sounds like he's rapping

44:09

while the singer's singing and it reminds me

44:11

of this old Fat Joe song that I

44:13

used to love. There

44:15

was a great Tony, Tony, Tony song called That's

44:17

All I Ask of You. Here's just a snippet

44:20

of it. That's

44:29

All I Ask of You, great track

44:31

and then Fat Joe came along and

44:34

he duets with it like this.

44:36

That's so satisfying. I love that. I

44:39

love it when people do stuff

44:41

like that. The

44:50

first thing that popped into my head is

44:52

the origin of that in recorded music being

44:55

used as a dialogue is Jamaica. You know

44:57

I'm going to bring it up almost every

44:59

episode but one of the first instances recorded

45:01

because the history of Jamaica, it's done live

45:03

in the 50s and 60s with the sound

45:05

systems and it's not really recorded until the

45:07

early 70s so U-Roy, one of the first

45:11

rappers basically where it's a

45:13

recorded backing track and someone

45:15

talking over the song and one of

45:18

the first examples of that is this song by

45:20

U-Roy. One

45:28

of the first examples of using the recording

45:30

and something on top of it that's responding

45:33

to it which is itself its own recording

45:35

which is itself a new song. I

45:50

love that. Thank you for taking us to Jamaica. I

45:53

appreciate you guys for taking us

45:55

on this journey of this song.

45:57

This song itself, Welcome By, has

45:59

been. on a journey. In

46:01

the introduction we speculated that Pave the Town Red

46:04

is going to go down as a classic. It

46:06

could. Do you think this song will stand the

46:08

test of time? I do.

46:10

I think that there's so much musical technicality

46:12

in it. It's so fun and also when

46:14

you're sampling a song that has stood the

46:17

test of time from the 60s, it's

46:19

still busting. So

46:22

it's still standing on business. I'm

46:26

gonna be standing and sometimes bent over to work

46:28

into it. You know, what can I say? I

46:30

said what I said. You know, Spiggy

46:32

has that line. I said what I said.

46:34

That seems to go directly towards her fan

46:36

base. And you know, we're here

46:38

to give Doja Flowers. She deserves them, but I do

46:41

want to talk about this thing, her

46:43

relationship with her fans. What

46:45

do you think, and I'm gonna throw this to you later, what do you think, what

46:48

do you make of the way I should say about

46:50

how she kind of comes at her own fan base?

46:52

Like when they're like, we're gonna call ourselves the kittens.

46:54

And she's like, I didn't come up

46:56

with the kittens. Y'all came up with that. Like, don't shut your asses

46:58

up. Tottie y'all. I

47:01

mean, I think that she has entered the

47:03

realm, which I really try to dance around.

47:05

It's a very thin line of like, when

47:08

you are an artist and you do have

47:10

a fan base and you engage with them

47:12

in a parasocial way, you are allowing them

47:15

to project their fantasies, their image of you,

47:17

wants their needs onto you. And as an

47:19

artist, that can be it's

47:21

a double-edged sword. Like, yeah, they'll follow

47:23

you into hell, but at the same

47:25

time, like they feel entitled to you,

47:27

your photos, your memories, your relationships,

47:29

how you purport, how you dress, how you act, because

47:32

you have made them feel like they are a part

47:34

of your real life. Now you did that because you

47:36

wanted to gain their loyalty and their coins, but then

47:38

you have to take the negative side of that too,

47:40

which is that they have an entitlement over you and

47:42

everything that you do. And I think that she got

47:45

very frustrated because she'd be online, online, online,

47:47

online. Okay. I'm like, when do you, I

47:49

mean, you forget this is a woman in

47:51

her mid-20s, like to the set, she might

47:53

be like 28 or something like that. Like

47:55

she, you know, like I always say, like,

47:57

if luxury and I should ever happen to have

47:59

like a huge I'm like, we'll just be like, thank

48:01

you so much. You know what I mean? But like,

48:03

she's the age of those people who are on. And

48:05

she's a woman of color. And she's a woman of

48:07

color. And so much going on that is attracting. So

48:09

much going on. And so much going on into the

48:11

job that had a very online

48:13

fan base. Right. It can become

48:15

very real. Like, when I was working on iCarly,

48:17

like, I had to move the first time. And

48:20

I'm not even joking. Wow, really? Like, my address

48:22

was on the internet. I was docked. My phone

48:24

number was out. People would call me breathing at

48:26

5 a.m. Wait, wait, wait.

48:28

I'm telling you for being on iCarly.

48:30

Because I was black and they didn't want me there.

48:33

I was just a black person who got a job.

48:35

But like, their fan base is so strong and like,

48:37

so like, if you go to my tag photos on

48:39

any of my profiles, you're just going to see mostly

48:41

iCarly stuff to this day. And like, I love the

48:43

fans who are not weird. I love y'all. But

48:46

like, when it starts to threaten your physical safety and

48:48

like, here's the LAPD like celebrity hotline, which I was

48:51

like, oh my God. So this one, I don't care

48:53

because I'm black. If I call them. Like, but it

48:55

becomes serious. Wow, I don't think they're taxing on your

48:58

mental health. Like you have to like, kind of limit

49:00

your interactions of you going to the comments. If you

49:02

like, you got to prepare yourself mentally. Like, okay, I'm

49:04

ready to see whatever's there. But if you come

49:06

up like Goja, I feel like before you're famous,

49:08

you were already on the internet so heavily in

49:10

a way that we weren't. I'm a little bit

49:12

less than her. So I feel like she went

49:14

too far into it and then realized

49:16

like she didn't want it to affect her art because there

49:18

are some artists, I will not name them because some of

49:20

them have crazy fan bases, but who

49:23

have allowed their fans to influence them so

49:25

much that it's now taken a toll on

49:27

their art. So Goja wants to do

49:29

what she wants to do. And she doesn't want

49:31

her fans being like, we want this. She's like,

49:33

you get what I give you. Yeah,

49:35

that's actually what I meant. It's sort of like, she's

49:38

of the age where she

49:40

understands this online

49:42

back and forth more than someone like

49:45

me who like made it out of

49:47

my teams without ever seeing YouTube, without

49:50

ever seeing. It's just a different relationship that

49:52

they have. You were touching grass, Deyala. Wow.

49:54

What it feel like with the doo wanted and

49:56

whatnot. I feel like she's playing a dangerous game.

50:00

And sometimes it feels like she's mastering it

50:02

and sometimes I worry for her again with

50:04

that sort of older brother kind of like

50:06

I recognize what she's doing is very fraught.

50:08

She's online. There's a lot of opportunity to

50:10

be seen heard and loved right There's even

50:12

on the screen of her video for attention.

50:14

It says in bright big giant Letters

50:17

love me right. It's sort of like a

50:19

theme of what she's going through right now.

50:21

She recognizes the push-pull She wants the fame.

50:23

She wants the attention. She recognizes as a

50:25

like thoughtful vulnerable human that

50:27

she wants It's love that she is

50:29

after but the price of that kind

50:31

of love of parasocial

50:33

relationship love that is not just like

50:36

human like vulnerable actual Flushing

50:39

blood relationship love is its own different thing.

50:41

You are playing with fire. It is a

50:43

dangerous game I'm

50:50

like I get that you're trying to

50:52

count me counterculture You're very young but

50:55

like well, then I build up a Nazi stuff and

50:57

they're like, yeah And I just wish that people know

50:59

how much words mean things and how much

51:01

words become physical and violent Stuff

51:04

like all that stuff is really dangerous. Okay, so

51:06

we should talk about that because there have

51:09

been some controversies You know doja has at

51:11

times, you know seemingly flirted with

51:13

the alt-right, you know There was the there's

51:15

a chat room video that I think a lot of people

51:17

have seen if you haven't seen it She was in a

51:19

chat room. She did the song Didn't

51:22

do nothing which you know, she's like I didn't know

51:24

that that was a thing, you know in

51:27

Right wing channels that sort of

51:29

minimizes The you know

51:31

police brutality that the black communities face. Um,

51:34

I throw the question to you Lacey is

51:36

a bigger question, but do the politics of

51:38

an artist matter? I think that it's a

51:40

two-folded question One

51:43

like Yes, you are

51:46

entitled to identify however you want and like

51:48

as a biracial woman Don't you care can

51:50

align herself with whatever, you know race or

51:52

identity that she sees fit like I'm not

51:55

her mama Like you know, I mean like

51:57

live your life. However, you know too much

52:00

given much is required and

52:02

if you are given a platform that large

52:04

you know you have to be responsible with

52:06

it you can choose not to be but

52:08

then you are making a very detrimental impact

52:10

on the world like I always like to

52:12

bring up that Spongebob episode where Spongebob started

52:14

to do a stand-up comedy and

52:16

he was telling these squirrel jokes about Sandy and I and

52:19

then like you know Sandy was like I really don't like

52:21

these squirrel jokes like this is terrible like please stop and

52:23

he was like it's just jokes it's just jokes so he

52:25

gets up he tries to do a set he doesn't do

52:27

the squirrel jokes and they're like we want to

52:29

hit a squirrel joke and he's bombing so

52:32

he starts telling the squirrel jokes and then the

52:34

next day Sandy goes to the supermarket and people

52:36

are like oh get away from that squirrel baby

52:38

girl you don't want to catch her stupid and

52:40

it's like yeah art is words and people like

52:43

to say words don't mean things but words

52:45

means words mean things they influence people and

52:47

then they create real-life consequences so I just

52:49

think if you want to be a good

52:51

global citizen then you'll be careful and there's

52:53

two ways to do that you could either

52:55

be a champion for people who are oppressed

52:57

and don't have voices or you can be

53:00

quiet that is a

53:02

choice you know I mean like people be like why does this

53:04

celebrity not speak up about this and I'm like look we

53:06

don't know what they read we maybe this is good

53:08

that they not talking you know I mean so you

53:10

got two choices you can do right and educate yourself

53:12

or you can be quiet and I'm supportive of both

53:14

of those choices now the other one pick one yeah

53:16

but pick one of those the good ones right

53:18

I mean for the record I do think that

53:20

Doja Cat does see herself as a black woman

53:22

and I and I do hope she does cuz

53:24

I feel like she cheaters right now she's back

53:27

over on the but she's not so trolling like

53:29

we had to remember she's young she's doing the

53:31

like emo I got the tattoo on her face well all

53:33

I was gonna say was you know like she sees herself as a black woman I

53:35

would hope so cuz a lot of in words a

53:37

lot of in words on these records so if you're gonna use

53:39

the in word identify with us that's

53:41

all technically

53:44

I can cuz look at my Twitter and me okay

53:46

but yeah yeah we would hope so listen we're coming

53:48

to the end of the show Lacey Doja has been

53:50

through a lot of stages in her career and has

53:52

tried a lot of things what would you like to

53:55

do? Honestly whatever the hell she wants and

53:57

that's what I love. love

54:00

about Doja is like, she doesn't seem like

54:02

to me, at least an artist who's been

54:04

tampered by like, what people want to see.

54:07

And I feel like that is the depth

54:09

of creativity. And in the capitalist machine, like,

54:12

I get sucked into it a lot to where I'm

54:14

like, I'm working constantly. And I'm like, Why am I

54:16

not engaged with this? And it's because sometimes art just

54:18

comes to you. Like I've written a whole TV show

54:20

based on me leaving boxing class and was like, bop,

54:22

you know what I mean? Like, so it's like you

54:25

have to have natural like stimulation in real life, it

54:27

can't just be a machine. So I hope that Doja

54:29

keeps being weird and doing whatever she wants to

54:31

do. Because like all the iterations of Doja I've absolutely

54:33

loved like, I'm on board with that. Well put

54:35

no perfectly put, I got nothing to contribute that

54:37

hasn't already been said more articulate than I could

54:39

say. Lacey, thank you so much

54:41

for coming here today. Where can the one

54:44

song listeners follow you and find more of

54:46

your work? Yes, y'all can follow

54:48

me at DIVALACI on all

54:50

platforms. And if you want to listen

54:52

to scams and my set my scam

54:54

comedy, scam got this pod on everywhere

54:57

you get your podcast, honey. I

54:59

love that. And by the way, my book scam got us

55:01

you can pre order right now. Oh, right on when does

55:03

that come out? That comes out September

55:05

of this year. Congratulations. That's

55:08

a big deal. I understand. Thank you. Lacey,

55:10

thank you for taking the time out of

55:12

your busy schedule to come and talk some

55:14

music with us. But I love it. Okay,

55:19

we're going to get to one more song in just

55:21

a second. But first, I wanted to point out that

55:23

Doja's Pave the Town Red was not the first hip

55:26

hop song to throw 808 underneath

55:28

the Dionne Warwick's vocals. My man. Right. Well,

55:30

actually, I don't think this is Dionne Warwick's

55:32

vocals, but it's her it's her line as

55:35

interpolated or should I say, Oh,

55:38

beautiful. Here we go. This is Slick Rick and Mona

55:40

Lisa 1988. Hey,

55:55

question. Yes. Who plays the trumpet?

55:58

Who plays the trumpet? So big

56:00

yeah, the trouble is such a big part

56:03

of the song who played that trumpet Well,

56:05

there's two trumpets credited on walk on by

56:07

and the names of the trumpet players are

56:09

erwin markowitz Who goes by marky markowitz by

56:11

the way the original marky markowitz not sure

56:14

how many nipples he has by the way

56:16

by? erweer Mark

56:21

he chose marky mark original marky mark and

56:23

Ernie Royale Or erwin

56:25

and Ernie place a horn Burton

56:28

Ernie on the horns Ernie. I don't

56:30

know why I call him. It's probably just Ernie Royal

56:32

But I was crazy marky mark and Ernie Royal

56:35

on trumpets there a great classic soulful

56:37

song from Erwin and Ernie All

56:42

right, it's time for the one more song

56:44

segment of one song This is the part

56:46

of the show where we share a new

56:48

song with you the one song nation and

56:50

with each other luxury What's your one more

56:52

song so Dionne Warwick in 1964? She wrote

56:54

this song called walk on by it's been

56:57

sampled by doja cat And paint the town,

56:59

but it was also covered and a very

57:01

famous cover by Isaac Hayes few years later

57:03

1969 It's actually a 12 minute

57:06

long extended cover. It's it's extraordinarily

57:08

transformed It's really just the lyrics

57:10

that are the same like the you

57:12

know It's not your typical cover where it keeps melodies

57:14

and chords and everything so I'm gonna play a little

57:16

bit of that for you I

57:32

Isocase version of the Dionne work original as you

57:34

can hear completely tran Version

57:37

very popular like sample source as well There's

57:40

at least there's actually 122 at

57:42

least 122 songs that have sampled this among which are

57:44

the following That

57:48

you may have heard including this one by

57:50

the notorious B.I.G. 1994 this

58:00

is me against the world. And

58:12

then this is actually the first place I ever heard

58:15

it because I was a big like I guess trip

58:17

hop fan. There was this kind of one hit wonder-ish

58:19

band called Hoover Phonic and they used it in this

58:21

track, Twicky, from 1996. So

58:31

a lot of people love that sample and it's

58:34

interesting to

58:36

hear how like the minimal transformations that

58:41

were done to it actually, just that beat is so sick and

58:43

that like one chord that just hangs

58:45

in time. People just love to use that and

58:47

reuse that. Absolutely. What

58:49

about you, De'Ella? What's your one more song this week? Thanks,

58:52

man. For my one more

58:54

song this week, I'm choosing Robert

58:57

Glasper's Black Radio. It features Yazim

58:59

Bey, aka Most Def, and it's

59:01

just a really cool jazz, hip-hop

59:04

fusion of... Yeah,

59:19

I mean like, you know, it just

59:21

doesn't get any cooler than that. I

59:24

feel like you listen to a song like that

59:26

and you feel like you're hearing an MC, you're

59:28

hearing, you know, amazing instrumentation,

59:31

the jazz influences there, so... And also the bass

59:33

is really grabbing me. I was really noticing how

59:35

filtered it is, so it's like just the sub-lowest

59:38

of the low of the bass. I was really

59:40

feeling that in my body, you know? No

59:42

high-end at all, just completely EQ'd at the

59:44

top. I love that. Yeah, totally. And I

59:46

think just that I just think that Robert

59:48

Glasper, you know, he gets it. Like he's

59:51

really making exciting music in the jazz space.

59:53

Living legend, genius, alive among us. As

59:56

always, if you have an idea for one more song, you

59:59

can find us on Twitter. or X if you really want

1:00:01

to call it that. Really

1:00:04

find us on Instagram and TikTok.

1:00:06

On Instagram, I'm at Diallo, D-I-A-L-L-O.

1:00:09

On TikTok, I'm at Diallo Riddle.

1:00:11

Luxury. I am luxury on

1:00:13

L-U-X-X-Y, I should say. Those are two X's.

1:00:15

That's right, L-U-X-X-Y on Instagram. I'm also on

1:00:17

Spotify. I always forget to point this out.

1:00:19

On Spotify, we have a playlist of all

1:00:22

the episodes of one song with every song

1:00:24

we mention, including their samples and interpolations and

1:00:26

all that there. Those are wonderful songs that

1:00:28

reminded us of the song. That's right. We

1:00:31

put everything on these episodes. So go to

1:00:33

Spotify, search on Luxury, L-U-X-X-U-R-Y. You'll see it

1:00:35

right there. It's one of my playlists. Or

1:00:37

search on one song interpolation. Anyway,

1:00:39

that's how you can find me on the internet. Luxury

1:00:42

helped me in this thing. Well, I've

1:00:44

been producer, DJ, musicologist, and songwriter, Luxury.

1:00:47

And I'm actor, writer, director, and sometimes DJ, Diallo

1:00:49

Riddle. This is One Song, and we will see

1:00:51

you next time. This

1:00:54

episode is produced by Matthew Nelson with engineering

1:00:56

support from Marcus Hahn, additional

1:00:58

production support from Casey Simonson. The

1:01:01

show is executive produced by Kevin

1:01:03

Hart, Mike Stein, Brian Smiley, Eric

1:01:05

Eddings, Eric Weil, and Leslie Glauf.

1:01:16

This is a big year. The

1:01:19

Ohio Lottery's golden anniversary. 50

1:01:21

years of excitement of growing

1:01:23

jackpots and crossed fingers. 50

1:01:26

years of funding for schools, of changed

1:01:28

lives and brightened days. 50

1:01:31

years of fun, and that is

1:01:33

worth celebrating. To watch

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her campus promotion, huge events and

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new games that will make the

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Ohio Lottery's 50th year its biggest

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one yet. Learn more at funturns50.com.

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Luxury is meant to be livable.

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Discover the new leather collection at

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Ashley with premium quality leather sofas,

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recliners, and more all built to

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last. No matter how many spills, scuffs,

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or pet related mishaps come its way,

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pet-related mishaps come its way, the leather

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collection at Ashley is made with a

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durability you need for the whole family. Shop

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the new leather collection at Ashley and find shares

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starting at $499.99 and sofas at $599.99. Ashley, for

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the love of home.