0:02

Rick Rubin and Gladwell get ready to

0:04

fight more than your record will be

0:06

broken tonight. Rick your time's

0:08

up the train left the station luxury's

0:11

the king of interpolation. Malcolm

0:13

my man we're not giving you flowers we

0:15

rather dis you for ten thousand hours we're

0:17

the best pie when it comes to music

0:19

tell Malcolm and Rick you can suck my

0:22

w- Welcome to

0:24

the podcast everybody this is one song

0:26

the most controversial podcast in America right

0:28

now according to Reddit by

0:30

the way that diss track you just heard

0:32

was literally all jokes literally luxury and I

0:35

cannot have more love for broken record with

0:37

huge fans and funny

0:39

fact we actually just shared one of

0:41

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don't want this smoke. Shout

0:55

out to US soy and the United soy bean

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lyric sustainability is just like that

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each eco-friendly choice we make is

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like a single note that contributes

1:14

to life's melody that's why

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up to lead the discussion around

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1:47

notes Start

1:54

clean with Clorox because Clorox delivers

1:56

a powerful clean every time. Because

1:59

messes happen. Because... Oh, I got

2:01

a charcoal mask! Another charcoal masquerade because why would I put

2:03

that on my face when I could drop it in

2:05

my sink? This is what I get for multitasking. Ugh,

2:07

why is charcoal so sticky? Hello. Hey

2:09

Janice, I am so sorry I thought I

2:11

was on mute. No, we don't need to

2:13

reschedule. I'll just stay off camera. Ooh,

2:16

yeah, that happens. So start clean with

2:19

Clorox. Use Clorox products at the store.

2:21

Use Clorox products as your agent. Alright,

2:27

alright. Luxury, my man.

2:30

As you know, one song is a podcast that likes

2:32

to be positive and show love. We

2:34

give artists their flowers and celebrate great music.

2:36

We sure do. We're nice, guys, but today,

2:38

something different. Oh, boy. We're gonna get mean.

2:41

So mean. We're gonna get nasty. That's right.

2:43

We rage. It's about to get ugly up

2:45

in the Sirius XM Studios because this time

2:47

on one song, we beefin'. Beefin'. We beefin'.

2:49

You ready to beef? I'm ready. Are you

2:51

ready for me? I don't think so. I

2:53

don't either. I don't think I'm ready. Alright,

2:57

so here's what's coming up. In recognizing the

3:00

recent Civil War happening in rap, by way

3:02

of the beef between Drake and Kendrick Lamar,

3:04

we're gonna take a minute and talk about

3:06

the history of rap beef. That's right. I'll

3:09

be explaining how the art of the diss

3:11

track isn't exclusive to hip-hop. What? That's right.

3:14

White people are messy too. So

3:16

we're gonna dig into the beefs found in other

3:18

genres in history. That's right. And we also have

3:21

a very special guest joining us today, a man

3:23

who found himself on the front lines of the

3:25

Kendrick and Drake battle. His song was a perfect

3:27

example of how rap beef is

3:29

changing in the 24-7 social media

3:31

and streaming AI era. That's right.

3:33

We're gonna be joined by our

3:35

special guest today, King Malonious, creator

3:38

of the song. We've all heard

3:40

it a jillion times recently, BBL

3:42

Drizzy. That's all coming up today

3:44

on One Song. I'm actor, writer,

3:46

director, and sometimes DJ Diallo Riddle.

3:48

And I'm producer, DJ and songwriter,

3:50

Luxury, AKA the guy who talks

3:52

about interpolation on the internet. Diallo,

3:55

where should we begin? Because this

3:57

beef with Kendrick and Drake is evolving. so

4:00

fast it's like impossible to keep up. Oh

4:02

I mean it's impossible I mean like actually

4:04

fun fact since we started recording this episode

4:07

Kendrick has released three more songs. I know

4:09

dad I mean I know you're joking. That

4:11

could actually happen. So it's barely a joke.

4:13

But that's how I felt that one night

4:16

when I think Family Matters came out and

4:18

then like 20 minutes later we had to

4:20

listen to Meet the Grams like it's been insane.

4:22

The first four or five tracks was it happened

4:24

in five days right? It's a crazy amount of

4:26

output so we're gonna get into it and

4:29

listen rap beef and diss tracks go

4:31

way way back. I mean we're talking

4:33

the earliest days of hip hop. You

4:35

could actually argue that beef is where

4:37

hip hop starts and there

4:39

are a couple of eras that I

4:42

want to call attention to. One is

4:44

the super old-school era okay? You know

4:46

mid 80s. Yes this is UTFO standing

4:50

Mr. Magic up they were supposed to come do a

4:52

show for him and they stood him up. So he

4:54

gets a 14 year old named Roxanne

4:57

Chante and then she does

5:00

a response track called Roxanne's

5:02

Revenge. People have talked about this

5:05

a lot. I mean like everybody sort of knows about The

5:07

Bridge by MC Shan and

5:09

the response track of The Bridge is Over

5:12

by KRS-1 and I

5:14

think that was probably the first track I heard that

5:16

was like a diss track but I will say that

5:18

I didn't know it was a diss track. Interesting. I

5:21

thought it was a cool song yeah because where

5:23

I lived we heard The Bridge is Over I

5:25

think a lot of us heard The Bridge is

5:27

Over before we even heard The Bridge. Yeah. You

5:29

know because The Bridge is Over was just a

5:32

really really cool song and we didn't realize that

5:34

it was speaking to a specifically New

5:36

York beef. We had just talked about this on the

5:38

Questlove episode too so like if you haven't listened to

5:40

that go back and check out that show. Yeah. He

5:42

talks literally about the beat making and behind this and

5:45

Mr. Magic too shows up in that episode because Mr.

5:47

Magic prompts the public enemy track. Yeah Mr. Magic had

5:49

a lot of beef. Yeah. Mr. Magic dissed public enemy

5:51

and then of course co-lamp with flavor. That

5:53

led to co-lamp with flavor. For example Mr. Magic for their

5:55

song Co-lamp with Flavor but I do want to play a

5:57

little bit of The Bridge is Over just because it was

5:59

probably the first this song that I heard even

6:02

though I didn't know how New York centric it

6:04

was. And

6:17

that was the earliest stuff, you know, the

6:19

stuff in the 80s. But beef

6:21

was not New York centric for long.

6:23

Obviously at some point NWA said goodbye

6:25

to Ice Cube and then he released,

6:27

I would argue, you know, maybe

6:30

the most explicit and

6:32

vicious attack, you know, diss tracks

6:34

of all time, which was a song at the

6:36

end of his death certificate album. That was a

6:38

song called Novasteline. I just love that

6:40

brick to Dazz sample.

6:42

Oh Dazz? Yeah. Disco jazz. Disco Dazz.

6:44

I really get used

7:00

to that sample. And I mean like for

7:03

years that was like the most brutal like

7:05

he talks about each member of NWA. Yeah.

7:07

And I always noticed that he doesn't really

7:09

say anything terrible about Dre. The only thing

7:11

he says about Dre really is like, yo

7:14

Dre stick to producing. There's also something like

7:16

extra sinister like the first the stripped down

7:18

beat of the bridge is over. It's just

7:20

like so like stripped down. It's just a

7:22

giant drum beat and the piano line. It

7:25

creates this cavernous kind of like angry like you

7:27

feel like you're in a warehouse with mobsters or

7:29

something like that. Like it's that that's the cinematic

7:33

But this one, the energy of the

7:35

song is a different kind of sinister energy

7:37

because it's like kind of happy. It's kind

7:39

of upbeat kind of contrasts with the lyricism.

7:41

I'm glad you bring that up because when

7:44

I hear the bridge is over, I really hear

7:46

like that, that amazing old

7:48

school hip hop. Yeah, that is

7:50

super stripped down. Yeah. He's bringing

7:53

in super cat. He's actually interpolating

7:55

Lyrics by Super Cat and

7:57

Barrington Levy murderer. Okay. Billy

8:00

Joel sample in their from is still rather

8:02

role to me so if I would he

8:04

ever used to tell a lie to me

8:07

and another As or police or by the

8:09

way I yeah exactly yeah. so I feel

8:11

like one is so representative where my York

8:13

was. Those in the bar? eighty six like

8:15

stripped down? yeah they're minimum parts and an

8:17

ice cube. Not. Only as his more

8:20

or less but it's like a funk sample

8:22

is just so much more west coast. Yes,

8:24

it's like this was how terrorists one did.

8:26

East coast be desired. Ice cube does west

8:28

coast be. Now. We thought about like,

8:31

you know, sort of like beef in the

8:33

old school Euro once the nineties come along.

8:35

I. Would argue that we enter a new era.

8:38

I would call it the mix tape era

8:40

of Peace. Okay, this is an era where.

8:42

Loved. You don't have to wait for an

8:44

album to come out to hear that be

8:46

song because in the nineties you know pretty

8:49

much have you live in a major city

8:51

already know this. You could go to a

8:53

guy who always had like a bunch of

8:55

tape and he get a cassette and it

8:57

would be like. You. Know is I

8:59

would have like all the publicize of the

9:01

moment and maybe one track there was completely

9:03

never going to be on any by the

9:06

album is not for Mosul is just a

9:08

rapper replying to somebody who had this him.

9:10

On. The previous mixtape and I think this

9:12

is where the To Park in Biggie era

9:15

comes in Be As you know there are

9:17

songs by Big either were never on any

9:19

of his albums but you can get I'm

9:21

on mix Things. I think that's

9:23

an important thing to point out is that

9:26

it's it's amazingly important part of hip

9:28

hop culture from day one, where there's references,

9:30

lyrical references that the listener is understood to

9:32

understand. Yikes, It's like a narrative. It's like

9:34

a soap opera, essentially that people as sharing

9:37

and and the participation in the music in

9:39

that way for the listener is obviously really

9:41

exciting. Sir Sneak, This is what some cereal

9:44

be getting to an image of. like if

9:46

you have to be an extra layer of

9:48

in the know to understand what they were

9:50

who they were referring to with this type.

9:53

of reference it's not the names it's some

9:55

kind of proxy for the individual like their

9:57

behavior of when thing they did or or

9:59

etc about that. And before we even

10:01

move on from Ice Cube, he said essentially what

10:03

you're saying here, which is, you

10:06

know, there was a time when hip-hop beef was

10:08

really just for the hip-hop heads. Yeah. And I

10:10

think that we're gonna get to this. Right, by

10:12

definition, that's what a head is. By definition, we

10:14

were the only people who heard half of these

10:17

songs and we were the only people who knew

10:19

what where the distance was. You're schooled in the

10:21

knowledge and understanding of what it all means. It

10:24

was choir sheet music for the choir. And this is

10:26

difficult, I think, for outsiders to interpret. I think that's

10:28

a part of why... Oh, I know, because now it's

10:30

totally different. I mean, like, the fact that, you know,

10:32

the Daily Beast or Slate has

10:35

a take on the latest hip-hop beef just shows

10:37

you they were in a much different place. Right. But

10:39

one thing that was great about the mixtapes is that

10:41

you would get these verses that never showed up on

10:43

anybody's album. I want to play a snippet of

10:46

this. It's called Live Freestyle. It was

10:48

on, I think, of DJ Mr. C

10:50

mixtape. And it is one of the

10:52

few times that you have Tupac and

10:54

Biggie, you know, alive and rapping on

10:56

each other's songs. This

11:12

is gonna come into the Tupac and Biggie beef only

11:15

because they were both on stage.

11:18

Tupac got up there and this is what that sounds like. So

11:43

we heard Biggie's verse on there. We

11:45

heard Tupac's verse. And, you know,

11:47

they were friends. You know, I was on a

11:49

TV show with Marlon Wayans and he showed me

11:52

the picture one time. It's a picture a lot

11:54

of us have seen a million times. It's a

11:56

picture of Tupac and Biggie together, you

11:58

know, they're standing next to one another, presumably friends that

12:00

they're both shooting birds with the camera. If

12:02

you do a wide angle of that shot, if

12:04

you find like the widest version of it, it's

12:08

ironic. You see in the background a young

12:10

Marlon Wayans sitting behind them. Oh, wow. Like

12:13

he was literally like, these guys were friends and we

12:15

were all young. We were all in our early twenties.

12:17

It's hard to hear these voices and not think of

12:19

these as young 20 year old men, but

12:21

these were all 20 year olds. At

12:23

some point famously, Tupac goes to

12:25

record a song while he's on

12:27

trial in New York and he

12:29

gets shot in the lobby of

12:31

Quad Studios. And from that point on,

12:34

they have a terrible relationship

12:37

and Tupac believes that Biggie and

12:39

Puffy had him set up. Here's what's

12:42

crazy, who shotcha? And Flavian

12:44

Yair are both recorded before the shooting.

12:47

After the shooting takes place, both were

12:49

used as evidence, so to speak, by

12:51

people in the community to be like,

12:53

oh snap, he's rapping about Pac. You

12:56

know what I mean? That's interesting to

12:58

me because like, would you record something

13:00

and then have your rival

13:02

shot? That seems bizarre to

13:04

me. No, it's probably not what happened. It's probably not

13:06

the case. But for those looking for evidence, the evidence

13:08

was everywhere. I'm going to play

13:10

a snippet from Flavian Yair remix. If

13:26

you look backwards after the shooting, it's like,

13:28

oh yeah, UPS is

13:30

hiring. Oh, Tupac played a

13:32

UPS guy in poetic justice,

13:35

which came out the year before. It

13:37

just seemed like more than a coincidence. He also says, with

13:40

that freestyle, you're bound to get shot. Now we just played

13:42

a freestyle. I was wondering if that was a connection to

13:44

that. Yeah, well there were people selling this stuff out there.

13:46

I thought it was. I would have covered it that way.

13:49

Yeah, exactly. And I mean like now, I'm sure you're thinking

13:51

like, oh UPS, it could have been neat. I mean like

13:53

the whole thing is reminding, like we're going to talk about

13:55

the current day, the Kendrick Drake situation as

13:57

this concept like in the most. way

14:00

because of the internet but even

14:02

back then the difference between an

14:05

intentional reference on the artist's part

14:07

versus an interpretation you couldn't possibly

14:09

know so people would I'm sure

14:11

be reading into it things that

14:13

weren't necessarily intended by Biggie

14:16

by Pac but the sequence

14:18

of events that no one could have anticipated yeah

14:20

we don't know what the recording schedule is in

14:22

retrospect oh that line must have meant this thing

14:24

that later happened that he predicted yes no it's

14:27

a coincidence as do happen call it the fog

14:29

of war everything suddenly seemed intentional right

14:31

I do think that listen I think

14:33

that at some point Biggie who

14:35

is never the type to throw Tupac's actual

14:38

name into the line of the song I think

14:40

to a certain extent Biggie might

14:42

be responsible for inventing the sneak diss

14:44

okay like where you know it's clearly

14:46

about you but right you don't know

14:48

if you're just being paranoid because you

14:50

haven't set the person's name right it's

14:52

open to interpretation or misinterpretation yeah exactly

14:54

it's so open interpretation and

14:56

you know were these sneak disses or

14:59

was Tupac and everybody who thought they

15:01

were Tupac disses being paranoid it's interesting

15:03

because Tupac is the opposite Tupac

15:06

direct Tupac is extremely direct he says Biggie's

15:08

name a million times he says Puffy's name

15:10

a billion times and he's saying all kinds

15:13

of crazy stuff and my own personal

15:15

story about hit him up is I can

15:17

still remember and I told this

15:19

story during the quest love episode

15:21

I remember sitting in the parking lot

15:24

of Turtles Records in Atlanta and

15:26

popping in hit him up and

15:28

I listened to it just very briefly

15:30

before I was like oh this is

15:32

crazy yeah like it was venom on

15:34

a level that made no Vaseline seemed

15:36

like a walk in the park you

15:38

never heard anything quite like no what

15:40

was different about was it the specifics

15:42

it was it was so specific guys

15:44

I'll go on record okay if I

15:46

can let's just put this

15:49

out there there were some people who had

15:51

some issues with what quest love said on

15:53

our episode about public enemy of all things

15:55

yeah and we got to talking about hit

15:57

him up specifically I want to make it very

16:00

clear for I think our regular viewers

16:02

who some people took it out of

16:04

context they took it as quest love

16:06

attacking Tupac or the song hit him

16:08

up all that quest love was saying

16:10

it was he loves

16:12

the Dennis Edwards song right that

16:14

Biggie sampled for the get money

16:16

remix and that is

16:18

the reason for the record we we're

16:20

aware that yeah the junior mafia song

16:23

that's why Tupac took that song that

16:25

was a little

16:27

not sneak this but I was a reference for the head if you

16:29

listen to hit him up yeah there's really a woman

16:31

who's like gamma like you know you're in

16:34

the know they connect the dots there we

16:36

don't always mention everything on this show we

16:38

don't know it just means that our producer

16:40

say speed it up but anyway

16:44

all this I was saying was that he wasn't

16:46

crazy about the instrumentation used by whoever the musicians

16:48

were in the death row group

16:51

the death row band a DJ Premier snare would have

16:53

hit hard yeah I want to say one thing to

16:55

the Tupac fans I am one of you yeah

16:58

I've been thinking about this ever since

17:00

we posted the the quest love episode

17:03

it occurred to me that in the nascent

17:06

internet era before

17:09

social media long before that when all

17:11

you have were the chat rooms and

17:13

the discussion boards my name

17:15

my handle was mama's only son and that

17:17

is a Tupac reference that is a Tupac

17:19

reference you fuck with mama's only son yeah

17:21

on the run don't misinterpret anything we're saying

17:24

mama's only son by the way my brother

17:26

had a certain feel he's like why are

17:28

you going around calling yourself mama's always like

17:30

I'm offended but

17:32

I love Tupac so much and I can remember the

17:34

summer of 96 literally driving

17:36

around listening to hit him up

17:39

all summer like if you ask if you got in

17:41

my car like there was a new outcast album there

17:43

was a new tribe called quest album I'm pretty sure

17:46

I think the love movement came out in 96 might

17:48

have been 97 but fact is

17:50

that was the year 96 of the year that all

17:52

eyes on me came out it was a double CD

17:55

he was fresh out of prison and

17:57

that was all that me and my friend Keith

17:59

Bernice Shout out to Keith at,

18:01

you know, Sizzer Speaks. I love that man. We

18:05

just drove around Atlanta that whole summer blasting

18:07

hit him up. And we were some of

18:09

the people most crushed when

18:12

things got violent in Las Vegas that September.

18:14

Can I just ask you, though, I'm so

18:16

curious as a listener, you describe the experience

18:18

of being a listener. I picture

18:21

myself listening to metal, just as that example, to

18:23

go back to the Metallica, the Anthrax, whatever it

18:25

is. That for me is a

18:27

mood. Like it's a moment I'm in where it's

18:29

a catharsis. It's a catharsis letting something out.

18:32

But listening to that aggressive music pumps me

18:34

up for the energy that I need to

18:36

survive a night on the town with my

18:38

boys, you know? Totally. It's

18:40

almost like whoever they're dissing on the diss track, you

18:43

know, they're they're dissing the people

18:45

in your life for you. Right. In

18:47

fact, I know that when the Drake and Kendrick stuff

18:49

really started blowing up, my my kids were listening to

18:51

all the diss tracks from both sides. And

18:54

then my two eldest boys decided they were

18:56

going to release diss tracks about each other.

18:58

Yeah. You know, like you didn't pick

19:01

up your socks last week. You know, like I was like,

19:03

I love the creativity, but keep it clean and leave the

19:05

parents out of it. I want

19:07

to move forward to the 2000s because

19:09

this is a period where, you know,

19:12

there are increasingly diss tracks

19:14

on people's albums. But what replaces sort

19:16

of like mixtapes are mixed CDs and

19:18

DVDs. So that is

19:20

this is sort of like the mixed CD

19:22

DVD period. I'm reminded

19:24

of Lauryn Hill. Talk

19:27

about sneak disses. She doesn't mention Wyclef,

19:29

but everybody felt like this line was

19:31

about Wyclef. It's funny

19:33

how money changes situations of

19:35

communication leading to complications. I

19:45

mean, God, Lost Ones is such a heartbeat.

19:48

I love that song so much. You

19:50

can't talk about the early 2000s without

19:52

talking about songs by Jay-Z and Nas

19:55

respectively. This was such a

19:57

huge beef. In fact, one could probably make

19:59

the argument. argument that until Drake and Meek

20:01

Mill comes along, this is sort of like

20:03

one of the biggest beasts in hip-hop history.

20:07

You know, at some point, Nas had gone a

20:09

little bit quiet. He had gone about two years

20:11

without releasing anything, you know, other

20:14

than the QB Collective stuff. And

20:16

Jay-Z is like, you know, especially in the absence

20:18

of Biggie, he's become sort of effectively the king

20:20

of New York, but to hear Nas

20:23

tell it, he can't be the king

20:25

without taking out Nas. So, you

20:27

know, sort of out of nowhere, Jay-Z releases a

20:29

takeover. I'm going to play my favorite snip of

20:32

the takeover because to me, he opens up a

20:34

new line of attack. You know,

20:36

in the earliest days, you know, Rap Beef was

20:38

all about, oh, you can't rap like me or

20:40

I got more women. And then at some

20:42

point, it got really personal. And the

20:44

whole culture sort of took a step back because in the

20:46

wake of the death of the I.G.

20:50

and Tupac, it was like, oh, don't go too

20:52

far, guys. We don't want to lose any more

20:54

of our heroes. So... Too

20:56

real. I've got too real. But Jay-Z opens

20:58

up a new line of attack. I

21:01

mean, like this one line I want to play,

21:03

it's so funny to me because he's talking about

21:06

a contract, like a deal point in

21:08

Nas's contract with his publishing company. Let's

21:10

hear this. This is from the takeover

21:13

by Jay-Z. And you ain't getting

21:15

corn, nigga. You was getting my off that I know

21:17

who I am. First life of shit. You suck. You

21:19

better be ready to stand up. I been in this vibe. Smart

21:21

enough, Nas. Boy, I'm from the city every day. I'm

21:24

from the city every day. I'm from the city every day. I

21:26

could divide that one of you. I

21:30

mean, there's so much to impact in that track. But

21:33

I love when he says, you ain't get a coin,

21:35

then. I know who I paid. Searchlight

21:37

Publishing, which was MC's search.

21:39

Yeah. And he was the guy who

21:41

put Nas on, you know, back in the live at

21:44

the barbecue. You know, that was just a new line of

21:46

it. That has nothing to do with rapping. That

21:48

has nothing to do with the lifestyle. That's literally

21:50

just like, oh, you didn't... your lawyer did a

21:53

bad job. Jay-Z came

21:55

out with a takeover. Nas responded with Ethan.

21:57

Let's just play a snippet from that. Neat

21:59

roll, please. You know mustache having, but

22:01

which is like a wreck compared to being

22:03

you wack And your man said, no, that

22:05

means you take the blade you ass with

22:07

your hands But the thing that was saying

22:09

to her was the biggest And the ember

22:11

that you on your own shit I

22:14

mean, there's two funny moments of that, go ahead

22:16

There's no mustache having He says

22:18

you have wisdom like a kid I almost left my

22:20

body with that one What it

22:22

brings up for me is how humor

22:24

Is so underrated in terms of the

22:26

power of these tracks Absolutely Also how

22:29

it's obviously the flip side of the

22:31

coin maybe to anger So humor sort

22:33

of releases some of the pressure or

22:35

sort of It deflates

22:37

and yet inflates the power of

22:40

the anger I suppose But there's something really

22:43

interesting that happens where it's like Really

22:45

there's anger, there's anger, but then it's fucking funny

22:47

It's really funny Now

22:49

here's the deal What's the overall impact of that?

22:52

That can really... It's like

22:54

when you're mad at somebody and they're saying something

22:56

And suddenly it's funny and you cannot help but

22:58

crack a bit of a smile And you're like,

23:00

I can't be angry anymore man, that was too

23:02

funny Well it's funny because we're going to talk

23:04

about how some people have even found

23:06

humor In this Drake and

23:08

Kendrick piece Absolutely, extremely dark The

23:12

consensus is that Nas won that Considering

23:15

that they thought that the takeover was the

23:17

knockout punch The fact that he

23:19

came back with either Is

23:22

there any pointers for that? Now people... This

23:24

is important to point out because this plays in the

23:26

Drake and Kendrick too Jay-Z actually

23:28

responded to either That was my next

23:30

question Super ugly Is there any

23:32

pattern to like being the most... the last one

23:34

to have a track? You know

23:36

sometimes being the last one wins, sometimes it doesn't

23:39

But you'll see where this relates to the current

23:41

kerfuffle, shout out to the internet Apparently that's my

23:43

catchphrase Jay-Z came out with super

23:46

ugly And in super ugly he

23:48

drops one bar in there about

23:50

leaving a condom on a

23:52

baby seat And they reference to the

23:54

fact that Jay-Z had started hooking up

23:57

with Nas's ex Okay At

23:59

the time people... Jay-Z's gone too far.

24:01

That's pretty cold. They said, hey, this is

24:03

not cool. It's so much deeper than RAT

24:05

now. It's very cold. Take that back. So

24:07

Jay-Z kind of had to apologize for that.

24:09

Really? And about the time he did, everybody

24:12

was like, Nas has won this beast. So

24:14

just think about that. As late as 2002,

24:16

there were rules. You

24:19

know, there were sort of community rules. Right,

24:21

like Amnesty International rules of engagement. Yeah,

24:24

there was... War crimes were not committed.

24:26

The Geneva Convention of RAT beasts. That's

24:28

what I'm looking for. Because, again, nobody

24:30

wanted... Who's the Hague in RAP? So

24:34

now we get to the current era

24:36

of RAT beef. And I think no

24:38

song represents the current era of beef

24:41

better than the song Back

24:43

to Back, which, you know, it was

24:45

the second song that Drake had released

24:47

against Meek Mill within just four days.

24:51

Like, that was incredible. And it spoke to the

24:53

fact that we were in a new era of

24:55

RAT beef. Months would pass

24:57

between Hit Em Up and

24:59

A Response From Biggie. Months would pass

25:01

even between, you know, the time that

25:03

The Takeover came out and either came

25:06

out. But now we're talking about literal

25:08

days. And there's also a third

25:10

person involved in the beef, which is

25:12

the internet, which is sort of like

25:14

the crowd, you know? And

25:17

everybody's like doing memes and like they're posting

25:19

pictures and stuff. Like, it's a new era.

25:22

And I think that Back to Back, more than

25:24

any other song, represents that. I mean,

25:26

this song not only eviscerated Meek Mill, it

25:28

also was just a great song. Like, it was

25:31

a song you could dance to. It

25:52

blended with one of his previous hits, started

25:55

from the bottom, like 0 to 100. Like, it

25:57

blended in with so many other people. populated

26:00

Drake club songs that you could just mix this

26:02

one in. I'll never forget when

26:04

it came out people talked about the album art and

26:06

how that was a layer of attack. Like I feel

26:08

like this was I could be wrong I'm pretty sure

26:11

this is one of the first singles

26:14

where the album art was a subject

26:16

of much discussion. Oh wow. You know

26:18

so like it was just there were

26:20

there were double entendre

26:22

disses in there. Drake

26:25

really brought it just

26:27

to a whole another level that honestly just

26:29

you know it left me nowhere nowhere to

26:31

turn. I love all the literacy required on

26:33

the listeners part to get all of it

26:35

for real. Yeah again this is also the

26:37

first this is one of the first beefs

26:39

in what I would call the genius era.

26:42

Rap genius. So you could literally

26:44

spin hours looking up what each

26:47

line of back-to-back meant. Yeah. And be like

26:49

oh no so this is a reference to

26:51

that and that's a reference to this like

26:54

it blew people's mind. What I love

26:56

about this is like it's just as

26:58

a Jew literally like our scripture right

27:00

the Bible is the Torah and then

27:02

that's the Old Testament or books from

27:04

the Old Testament but then what's considered

27:06

the actual holy work is

27:08

the that plus the Talmud which is hundreds

27:11

of years of

27:13

religious scholars essentially interpreting

27:16

and reinterpreting and responding to the previous

27:18

interpretations as a living document. That's what

27:20

rap genius is for rap. It's like

27:22

there's the text there's the song itself

27:25

but then there's all the analysis and

27:27

the analysis of the analysis and I

27:29

freaking love that. I love the intertextuality

27:31

and the analysis and the

27:33

collective musicology. Yeah and I think you know

27:36

for the record I think rap genius started

27:38

off it's now genius obviously but what

27:40

it eventually became was a sort

27:43

of needed place where you could

27:45

go and do what you said which is

27:47

like look up like oh this is a

27:49

reference to that but it's also a second

27:51

layer reference to this and now it actually

27:53

I think serves something of a purpose. I've

27:55

heard people bag on and say that's

27:57

not hip-hop to be like you know going

27:59

on a website. and doing all that. But I would say

28:01

like that's just where we're at now. People want to know

28:03

that there's something behind the, if you look at those Taylor

28:05

Swift lyrics, true Swifties can tell

28:07

you every single thing about, oh when she

28:10

said your body is blue, you know, that

28:12

means that's just where we're at. And I think

28:15

that that, God bless it, if baby boomers can

28:17

talk about Bob Dylan, we can talk about Drake

28:19

and Pimp. That's the internet era,

28:21

that's the fanfic era, that's like the cosplay

28:23

era, that's the involvement in the lives and

28:26

stories of our musical heroes that

28:28

we are participating in and we take for granted

28:30

now, but we have 25 whatever years of

28:32

internet-ness or 30 years where that's

28:34

just baked into it as we were about

28:36

to see rip the largest in the current

28:39

kerfuffle if I may borrow the word. Alright,

28:46

well coming up after the break, the

28:48

only person aside from J Cole who

28:50

has come out of this whole kerfuffle

28:52

happy, and that's King Olonious with his

28:54

song, BBL Drizzy. We

28:56

have so much more coming up on one song right after

28:58

the break. Thanks

29:15

to the US Soy and the

29:17

United Soybean Board for the sustainable

29:19

makeover of our podcast studio and

29:22

for sparking discussions on greener Hollywood

29:24

production. Just like Notes

29:26

in a Song, Sustainable Living is just

29:28

a series of small eco-friendly choices that

29:30

contribute to the melody. Check

29:33

out the Tears for Fears episode of one song

29:35

and see behind the scenes clips of how they

29:37

pulled the whole look together. It's

29:39

all on at heartbeat audio on YouTube and the

29:41

link is in our show notes. Just

29:44

in and so good. Thousands of

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summer deals at your Nordstrom Rack

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so you can make an informed decision. Tap

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to learn more. Welcome

31:10

back to One Song. Now, this beef

31:12

has been a huge moment for AI-generated

31:15

music. First, Drake released the song Taylor

31:17

Made, which featured an AI snoop and

31:19

an AI 2-pug going after Kendrick. And

31:21

then there's the song BBL Drizzy. For

31:23

people that somehow have never heard the

31:25

expression BBL, it means Brazilian butt lift.

31:29

And in one of the many diss tracks

31:31

that this beef has spawned, Rick Ross alleged

31:33

that Drake got one. So a comedian called

31:35

King Willonius saw the hashtag online and decided

31:37

to use that ridiculous phrase as the basis

31:39

of a very lighthearted and awesomely catchy,

31:41

by the way, song. And it's

31:43

turned into one of the few lighthearted moments in the beef.

31:47

The song was even remixed by Atlanta producer Metro

31:49

Boomin, when viral for a second time as the

31:51

basis of a chopped up sample in a trap

31:53

beat. So without further ado, let's bring

31:55

the man out at the center of this story and he

31:57

will tell us more in his own words. the

32:00

stage, King Wallonius. Thank

32:02

you, thank you. How are you? How are you

32:04

feeling? Amazing, man. This has

32:07

been a very interesting, magical, crazy

32:09

time. Yeah, last

32:11

couple of weeks and just

32:13

grateful to be here, man. So let's just address

32:15

the elephant in the room. Do you have beef with Drake?

32:18

So I'm not beefing with

32:20

Drake right now. Not yet. Not

32:22

yet. Let's go out across the universe.

32:24

This has no beef with Drake. Yeah. I

32:26

actually, I mean, I got a playlist filled with

32:29

Drake's music. So like, not beefing with him. Also,

32:31

I just want to make a point. I did

32:33

make songs for, on the other side for Drake.

32:35

They just didn't pop off. Like I had a

32:37

song called Step On Me, where he was talking

32:39

about, Step On Me with your size seven feet.

32:41

With the Kendrick. Yeah, it was

32:44

like, I try to do, I try to play

32:46

both sides, but those songs just didn't pop off.

32:49

People's opportunity disser, yeah. BBL Drizzy is just a, it's

32:51

just a funny word. Yeah, so. It's

32:53

a very funny word. But I hope OVO

32:55

hears that. He did try and

32:58

do a Kendrick song too. Yeah. If

33:00

they ever want me to come on to Canada and do some

33:02

things with them, I'll be more than happy to tell them. Yeah,

33:04

yeah, yeah. And let's get into this, because one of the most

33:06

fascinating parts about this is the use of AI. I

33:09

want to know like, what is the process

33:11

of creating a song in AI? Yeah, there's

33:13

a couple of different ways you can do it. You can

33:15

just like type in a prompt and just have it make,

33:17

completely make a song. You can type in a really vague

33:19

prompt. Yeah. Like, I want to do a

33:22

song with this title. Yeah. And then you

33:24

can talk about me going to Starbucks, getting

33:26

a latte. And it'll make a cool song.

33:28

Yeah. And you can pick the

33:30

genre. It could be an Afrobeats song, whatever. And then

33:32

you can do like, where it's like custom lyrics. So

33:34

you can like type in your own lyrics and then

33:36

have it create a song like that. Well, okay. Yeah.

33:40

How specific did you have to get? Essentially, just like prompts like,

33:42

you know, like 1960s. So

33:45

you said 1960s. For me,

33:47

or whatever, I hear like 70s. You

33:49

think the AI was trying to nail 60s? That's

33:52

why I typed in. It was just like,

33:54

just like typing in like that. Male

33:56

Vocalists Kind of really just like mixing prompts and

33:58

just trying to figure out. The danger with

34:01

the tools is I it's is you gotta

34:03

do like a lotta it erases. So.

34:05

So they were earlier versions I didn't

34:07

cry or in as gay or yeah

34:09

yeah so I've I've made about knows

34:11

twentieth thirty versions.release that I have about

34:13

a hundred that ah have him in

34:15

ages ago in a gospel i gotta

34:17

Gregorian san If I thought I might

34:19

need the other girl year me yacht

34:21

right arm of the other to Iraq

34:24

version four hours in a for my

34:26

favorites I'm the opposite opposite devoted his

34:28

is the sound is oh cool though

34:30

I was is just discovering the by

34:32

like the the the Car version as

34:34

our I. Now that someone I just but

34:36

to be clear is not your voice and that

34:38

is not your music in terms of my your

34:40

face on the cover not of I know to

34:43

visit her body who grew through so far. Service:

34:45

Okay with a person who dresses like that ah

34:47

be really army of us is like a service

34:49

or ah dang it we I always seem to

34:51

be. I determine who ever I am. I'm disappointed

34:54

that I now have a low to right with

34:56

you around for you. Here we are. You know,

34:58

Michael from Air? Yeah, Honest. I'm so I'm sorry

35:00

I'm so caught up on the nineteen Sixty thing

35:03

because the inner light. To. Me, it

35:05

sounds like The Temptations but it sounds like sounds

35:07

like maybe like David Ruff and in the early

35:09

seventies in my use and ninety Six of them

35:11

says Icu sounds like this and Ninety Six is

35:13

absurd. The internet will be more than happy to

35:16

remind to arrive. Ah I'm like almost drawing a

35:18

blank and like who is who assuming that soul

35:20

things like the last summer so I can other

35:22

a documentary on as I can see it being

35:24

there. What is up in part of his if

35:26

I went when you put its or impromptu thing

35:28

is it's. It's some. Found is not

35:31

as a civil I you add some problems to

35:33

it is like you can type is are invading

35:35

than a new give you. Ill add other problems

35:37

too soon as acting like a real human. Collaborators

35:39

like our i know it's you want writers I

35:41

want to do something a little different. So here's

35:44

I'm going to get right. I'm so glad you

35:46

put it like that is as easy as a

35:48

collaborator because I think that when most of us

35:50

here like a I generated song we just think

35:52

the lights somebody lazy put in the most basic

35:55

data and then a machine cranked out assault. But

35:57

I will say this is a big is pricey

35:59

to save the recording of this episode this is

36:01

doubly the most successful. A Songs

36:04

because. It. It has

36:06

so much of you in. It so. I want to

36:08

talk about the impact when the song came

36:10

out. what was the moment that you truly

36:12

understood yo This song has blown. I wouldn't

36:14

use Scylla the so a male so crazy

36:16

glass I saw was more than I do

36:18

anything like I I was I was actually

36:21

that day I was are out in arena

36:23

a I film festival. So. Ill

36:25

and forty hour a apophis or not my out

36:27

a deadline. The summit was like. Ah twelve

36:29

am Pete pacific them standard time and I was

36:31

out on eagles are finity like three I'm I'm

36:33

I'm I'm a Bb a jersey was trending and

36:36

I just made a sound and thing that the

36:38

know now they are only we get engagement on

36:40

twitter saw Zeiss is added me to put his

36:42

out or whatever.com and then I member who was

36:45

on go up as like a like five thousand

36:47

views on my god it's kind of great little

36:49

M would imagine engagements and an arm ah advocate

36:51

to fly as six am planning go to sleep

36:53

at all hopped on a plane as a M

36:56

as in of that like thirty thousand views the

36:58

I was going. And then I was i oh

37:00

this is this might be my moment in our as

37:02

I am I on an I. Phone

37:05

and all positive where they're like a hand whether it's

37:07

or negative. Now when they they made of lightning over

37:10

there was no negative. Agree. Know enough. Same people getting

37:12

married to be Be I. Admired

37:15

a while a Bb ugly the same as

37:17

users which is is save it and then

37:20

I do and ask a little bit about

37:22

the measure boom of thing. So obviously you

37:24

created this song. Metro Boom and samples the

37:26

i don't want to get too much into you like yours

37:29

your. You. Know legal situation? whatever.

37:31

But lights was are your puppy

37:33

right? right? So does everyone technically

37:35

were my age and sample is

37:37

you know you nothing realize how

37:39

that works The be honest. i'm

37:41

and learn and everything like on the fly

37:43

like i'd never consider myself to be

37:45

in the music business and like others have

37:48

i have to are now like now

37:50

minutes have a meetings were like record labels

37:52

and i people one in the like sign

37:54

me them and i'm like i'm a

37:56

comedian writer myself a joke and between right

37:59

though ah but song second yeah yeah

38:01

well I mean you know like as you

38:03

said man like this song really said because

38:05

it's pretty much the biggest AI song ever

38:07

so it still kind of blows

38:09

my mind to say that out loud but um

38:11

because I just I just wanted to do comedy

38:13

so like I just want to make jokes I

38:15

want to make funny songs and like but now

38:18

you know it's just like it's it's part of

38:20

like set a precedent and like you know for

38:22

for musical artists like you know they can like

38:25

sample songs like they don't have to

38:27

do it like it's gonna be interesting

38:29

how all this plays out in the

38:31

future yeah you make a good point

38:33

because if Metro finds an actual song

38:35

from the 1960s he's got to swim

38:37

through a you know swamp

38:40

all kinds of permissions to

38:43

clear the sample to clear the publishing masters

38:45

this probably be looked at in later days

38:47

is like the the moment we figured out

38:49

how to do right with AI because so

38:51

many issues are in one place for this

38:53

one song congratulations to you being a musician

38:55

comedian having record labels having this moment and

38:57

we know we enjoy more songs and more

38:59

yeah yeah from you man I've been going

39:01

like since they took it down from Spotify

39:04

like I've been going crazy like I yeah

39:06

just dropping I dropped this really dope track

39:08

it's a it's like a

39:10

soul version of Captain Planet it's just

39:12

like it's so dope it's just fun

39:15

to make music like created that song

39:17

without AI like to go to the

39:19

studio to get

39:21

a soul singer like to make the cover art

39:23

I would have completely missed that moment you know

39:26

so insane I there's so

39:28

much to impact here that has nothing to

39:30

do with the rap beef that yeah literally

39:32

just like AI is it just another

39:34

tool in the creative person's wheelhouse I think you've

39:36

made a strong case that it is yeah seriously

39:38

thank you so much for coming on the show

39:40

well on it job man well onus everybody give

39:42

it up a kind of pappy all right thank

39:45

you thank you and by the way before you go where can

39:47

our listeners find more of your work uh

39:50

Instagram TikTok King Maloney is on all

39:52

platforms okay cool yeah yeah all right

39:55

thank you appreciate it Well,

40:00

actually, one thing that you and I were

40:02

really fascinated by is this idea that bees

40:04

and discs are not confined to hip-hop. So

40:06

walk us through how these feuds play out

40:08

in other genres. There's some really fun historical

40:10

feuds that precede the rap era and even

40:12

the modern era. We can go all the

40:15

way back to the 30s in Brazil.

40:18

Some of the earliest back and forth

40:21

songs that were written as a disc,

40:23

one artist dissing the other artist specifically.

40:25

If we can describe that

40:28

as being distory. How

40:31

long have you had that one ready to fire

40:33

on? I was so happy that you laughed like

40:35

that because that felt like a very genuine laugh.

40:37

Well, can I just say... And I did have

40:39

that one in the chamber this whole time. Some

40:41

people know that I said there should be an

40:43

app where every time a new diss track comes

40:45

out, you get, like

40:47

in your inbox, the song, the

40:49

artwork, a link to the Genius page.

40:51

And the name of this app? Discontent.

40:57

Oh, discontent. So

40:59

many layers. Oh my gosh. I mean like... So proud

41:02

of ourselves and our plans. If we have any VC,

41:05

we have any venture capitalists listening, I

41:07

am reachable. Just DME. Anyway, let me

41:09

take you back to Brazil very briefly.

41:11

The setup is that in the 30s,

41:13

samba is a new genre. It's a

41:15

rhythm, basically. It's a little faster than

41:18

tango and ramba. And it's emerging from

41:20

the fableas and for all

41:22

the Portuguese speakers out there, I'm likely

41:24

to mangle one or two words. So

41:27

the fableas, which are the slums of

41:29

Rio, as I understand them, and this

41:31

music was not favored, shall we say,

41:33

by the government. In fact, composers were

41:35

thought to be leaders of African cults.

41:37

And sometimes samba gatherings were shut down.

41:40

Musicians were arrested. They destroyed the instruments.

41:42

So it's kind of a controversial genre.

41:46

So there are a group of people called

41:48

malandros. It's an expression that they take

41:50

on as a badge of honor to be, quote, a

41:52

bad boys to be a malandro. The

41:55

first track in this diswar of 1933 is by a gentleman

41:57

called Wilson Betru. It's

42:00

sung by Silvio Calvadais and the

42:02

song is called, and again, apologies

42:05

to native Portuguese speakers, L'Enzo no

42:07

Pescoso. So just so you know

42:10

what he's singing in

42:13

here, these lyrics, my

42:16

hat tilted to the

42:18

side, higher

42:57

plane, had a comeback song

43:00

and this song is called

43:02

Rapaz Folgado. Again not

43:04

sung by the artist themselves, this is

43:06

sung by Arací del Amieda, but this

43:08

is 1933, it's a response song. I'll

43:11

play it for you then I'll tell you what she's singing. Okay

43:23

so if you recall the lyrics from before

43:26

about the kerchiefs and the shoes,

43:28

stop dragging your wood-soled shoe because a

43:30

wood-soled shoe is never a sandal. Take

43:33

that kerchief off your neck, buy dress shoes

43:35

and a tie. Melandro is a defeatist word,

43:37

all it does is take away the value

43:40

of sambistas. I propose to the

43:42

civilized people to call you not a

43:44

Melandro, but rather an idle youth. Shots

43:46

fired. Shots fired. You got a hoon.

43:50

And this goes back and forth a few more times.

43:52

Here's another song that Batista comes back

43:54

with called Mochino de Vala, Pretty Boy and

43:56

he accuses him of being a pretty boy

43:58

from the rich middle-class. neighborhood, right? So

44:01

calling into question his class and his authenticity

44:03

to even be participating in the musical genre.

44:05

Excuse me, does this have echoes of some

44:07

of the issues still being debated in some

44:10

of these diss tracks of the modern era

44:12

or what? You know that's a really old

44:14

diss track. It's a very old diss track.

44:16

It's a very old diss track. 1933? Both

44:19

of those songs. It was crazy as I

44:21

know of one even older. Oh man, alright.

44:23

Show us what you got. Antonio Salieri and...

44:28

I went back to Mozart. At Arrivory. Yeah, they

44:30

did. Mozart's hit him up.

44:32

Mozart came with this. Fuck

44:41

you Salieri! Antonio

44:43

couldn't even show his face. You

44:47

got me with that one. Beef is old as music itself.

44:49

I'm sorry. You can hear it in that deceptively

44:52

beautiful melodic cadence. The

44:54

anger and rage. The

44:56

original sub-sexual diss. The

44:59

first sneak diss. Intertextual. Wow. Incredible

45:01

stuff. You had to get on

45:03

whatever the genius scrolls and be

45:05

like, oh I

45:07

see you Mozart. Alright. That's

45:10

amazing. We're nerds. Okay. So there are a few more

45:12

patterns as we go through history of

45:14

the sort of kinds of diss tracks

45:16

that are taking place. In Jamaica

45:18

in the 60s we have kind of a trend. It

45:21

happened a few times of Ska

45:23

and Rock Study artists in the pre

45:25

reggae era like angry at their producers.

45:28

So Lee Scratch Perry has a

45:30

track called People Funny Boy where he's shouting

45:32

out Joe Gibbs, his former friend and producer,

45:34

saying now that you're at the top you

45:36

turn big shot and all I've done for

45:38

you, you not remember that. I

45:52

woke up through the entire wonderful post-beatle breakup

45:54

back and forth. This is one I feel

45:56

like I know a little bit about. This

45:59

is an important one. because there's several

46:01

tracks that go back and forth between

46:03

Paul McCartney and John Lennon. It sort

46:05

of begins with John Lennon in an

46:07

interview in Rolling Stone after

46:09

the breakup, saying that we got fed

46:12

being sidemen for Paul. Paul

46:14

fires the first salvo with 1971's Too Many

46:18

People where he says, that was your first

46:20

mistake. You took your lucky break and broke

46:22

it in two. Basically saying,

46:24

hey, we had this good thing going, man. The Beatles

46:27

were in, you broke it in two. You broke it

46:29

up. I will

46:31

play for you because it's my favorite in

46:33

the series. John's How Do You Sleep. He

46:36

comes back hard. He comes back hard. Let's

46:38

hear a bit of that. I want to talk about How Do You Sleep. A

46:45

long time

46:50

with this in the show now that I

46:52

always say that John died right before I

46:54

think he would have hopped on the bandwagon.

46:57

Right? At least an entire hip-hop. He would

46:59

have loved hip-hop. I do feel like How

47:01

Do You Sleep feels like a hip-hop diss

47:03

record because number one, I always said like

47:06

tempo is important. Like this

47:08

is like the dark song. You know, he

47:10

slows the tempo way, way, way down. And

47:12

it's like a slow sort of like, it's

47:14

like sticking a knife and you've been driving

47:16

in the place slowly. Like, we're not going

47:18

to be friends anymore. But

47:20

ironically, they were friends before his death. So there

47:22

you go. But it's funny. I mean, you're

47:24

making me think about the energy of the

47:26

music matching the lyrics or being a counterpart

47:28

to it and how there was a distinction

47:31

between, you know, the bridges over music and

47:33

lyric content and then into the ice cube

47:35

with, you know, Vaseline. Here, you're absolutely right

47:37

to mention that that slow molasses. It's dragging

47:39

it out. It's like, I'm going to make

47:41

you suffer through listening

47:44

to this six minute song.

47:46

I even feel like in its own way, either might

47:49

be the same tempo as Takeover. I think they're actually

47:51

simpler. But either felt slower. Like

47:53

it was almost like, Nas was like, slow the

47:56

beat down. I want to make sure that I can

47:58

get these words into every single bar. You

48:00

know what I mean? Every phony,

48:02

every single thing. And

48:05

yeah, once again, the double entendre dish of

48:07

everything you did was yesterday. Right, right, right.

48:09

You know, over it's old and all you

48:11

had was that one damn song. It's a

48:13

brutal track. Right. It's a brutal track. That

48:16

goes back and forth a few times and

48:19

they ultimately kiss and make

48:21

up as it were. And then there's

48:23

a trend that happens around this time,

48:25

perhaps inspired by these, by the Beatles

48:27

internal back and forth or the post

48:29

Beatles back and forth, I should say,

48:31

where there's this dissing other artists phenomenon.

48:33

So you got Carly Simon with You're

48:35

So Vain. With

48:48

its sneak diss factor to this day,

48:50

it's never been fully revealed. She did

48:52

admit that one verse at least, quote

48:54

unquote, was about Warren Beatty, but she's

48:56

never fully come out and said who

48:59

the entire scene is about or if

49:01

there's other people. We've also got Neil

49:03

Young Southern Man, which is kind of

49:05

like a very well written treatise on

49:08

anti like referring to

49:10

the slavery and the legacy of it, like

49:12

he did a wonderful and segregation. And

49:14

then Leonard Skinner comes back with Sweet Home

49:17

Alabama with this kind of Southern man don't

49:19

need him around, but certainly don't need him.

49:21

Not the greatest comeback. I will say one

49:23

time my wife and I were out on

49:25

Valentine's Day and we

49:27

went to a little hotel. We were just

49:29

like, oh, let's go to that little hotel, a drink

49:31

at the bar. And there was a

49:34

piano guy there and he kicked it in Sweet

49:36

Home Alabama and I had had just enough glasses

49:38

of Cabernet to go over and request

49:40

a change of pace. I pivoted in my chair, I

49:42

yelled loudly across the entire

49:45

place. I was like, this song is

49:47

pro segregation. And

49:50

the people were horrified. He

49:53

stopped playing the music at the piano. The people

49:55

in this bar are horrified. Security actually came up,

49:57

black guy, ironically, black security guard came up. He's

49:59

like, sir, I believe you're a guy that no,

50:02

no, no, he's actually right. He's actually okay. I'm

50:04

gonna play something else I'll get to him credit.

50:06

Yeah me from getting kicked out of the bar

50:08

that night It was a good Valentine's Day We

50:11

didn't even really get into the details But there's

50:13

so many different ways to incorporate your enemy into

50:15

a diss song you can in

50:17

hip-hop You can rap over their beat which

50:20

is what Tupac obviously did essentially for hit

50:22

him up You can reference their songs in

50:24

your lyrics, you know There's

50:26

so many subtle ways to like we're getting

50:28

working the titles of their songs, right? Flip

50:31

it on them or the sneak diss which

50:33

is a perfect segue because in this next

50:35

song This might be my overall favorite diss

50:37

song and it's Queen's death on

50:39

two legs It is the opening track on

50:42

night at the Opera, which is the album

50:44

which is known for Bohemian Rhapsody But

50:46

it's this is a slamming takedown at

50:48

that former manager does not name him

50:51

But he knows who it is and he

50:54

sues them and they end up

50:56

settling out of court But there's nothing specific in the

50:58

song other than it's a song about

51:00

hey you ripped us off and here it is And

51:17

it goes on and on Every

51:20

single line is a scathing takedown line

51:22

about what you are and what you

51:25

did to me There's no subtlety to

51:27

it other than the not naming. So

51:29

I love this track just as an

51:31

anger song This is probably my one

51:33

of my favorite teenage anger songs outside

51:35

of the Metallica canon That's interesting because

51:37

I Part of

51:39

me thinks it's never fair when a musician or

51:41

an artist goes after somebody who is not a

51:44

musician artist Because they can't respond in the beef

51:46

like that's not well they can Successfully

51:48

again by the way You may not

51:50

have the empathy you had when you realize

51:53

that this was the gentleman who signed the

51:55

band to one of those classic early 70s

51:57

especially like terrible deals

51:59

where the band was young and

52:01

didn't have proper representation and the rules

52:03

of music industry legalities and copyright are

52:06

so complicated that he took

52:08

advantage of them so that everything they made prior

52:10

to this record the guy owned but all he

52:12

had given them was access to a recording studio.

52:14

In light of this new information, sympathy

52:17

withdrawn. And

52:20

one of my favorite categories is the

52:22

dissing Courtney Love song of which

52:24

there are many because that's a musician dissing

52:26

a musician. And Courtney Love

52:28

of Hole and of course Wife

52:30

of the Lake Kurt Cobain was not

52:33

a very favorite individual in certain communities

52:35

in the mid 90s and early 90s.

52:37

And the Foo Fighters song I'll

52:40

Stick Around it turns out was about

52:42

her, specifically this line. I

52:45

don't know who it is. I

52:48

don't know who it is.

52:50

I don't know who it

52:53

is. That's a

52:56

young Foo Fighter, young Dave Grohl calling

52:58

out Courtney Love who is complicated arrangement.

53:01

We won't be judging it but like obviously the

53:03

widow of his former bandmate and friend a lot

53:05

of complexity going on there. But this was his

53:07

energy. This is his diss track. This is his

53:09

expression of frustration and anger

53:12

towards her. But he wasn't the only one. Stone

53:14

Temple Pilots had a song called Too Cool

53:17

Queenie. But interestingly another

53:19

artist who you might not expect to have a

53:21

diss track against Courtney Love and that's this one.

53:25

I did

53:36

not know this story. That's really interesting.

53:38

What is Gwen's issue with Courtney? Gwen's

53:40

pissed because Courtney was in an interview

53:42

in Seventeen magazine and said, I'm not

53:44

interested in being the cheerleader. I'm not

53:46

interested in being Gwen Stefani. She's

53:48

the cheerleader and I'm out in the smoker

53:50

shed. Hilarious. So Stefani responded, I've

53:53

never been a cheerleader. So I was like, okay,

53:55

fuck you. You want me to be a cheerleader?

53:57

I will be one. And there she is on

53:59

that track. Not only does Gwen

54:01

win in that field, but I

54:03

like the fact that two grown

54:06

adults care what was written in

54:08

Seventeen magazine. That

54:11

really shows you where we're at. I

54:14

think that when musicians go have musicians,

54:16

somebody on the internet was like, these

54:18

are grown

54:20

adults writing poetry towards one

54:22

another. Right. Violent poetry. And

54:25

that's only when it gets into a song because

54:27

I mean, I just love the idea of competitive

54:29

artists. I'm reminded

54:31

of how much Jack White is the

54:33

White Stripes hates the Black Keys. The

54:36

White Stripes, the Black Keys, the imagery

54:38

is perfect. It's like white and black.

54:40

And then of legend is Prince versus

54:43

Rick James. And Rick James is thinking

54:45

like, oh man, he's just a little

54:47

bit younger and he's a whole lot

54:49

shorter. And why is he getting the

54:52

chances that I was denied? I

54:55

love the shade that Mariah verbally

54:58

throws at J.Lo, even though

55:00

I love them both. I love both these people. You

55:02

can love both people on both sides of the beef

55:04

and still sort of like enjoy a back and forth

55:06

the same way you might like, you know, all

55:09

the kids getting in a circle and clowning one another. Sure.

55:12

And I would be remiss to perhaps the

55:14

mother of all like claustrophobic

55:17

diss track scenarios is

55:20

Fleetwood Mac's album Rumors.

55:23

And the fact that there are songs

55:25

about an individual in the band

55:27

and an individual at the, it's not even

55:29

the Beatles where they've broken up and gone

55:31

their separate way. They're still in the band

55:33

together. They're on stage every night. And

55:36

Lindsay Buckingham is singing this to

55:38

Stevie Nicks. The

55:40

whole thing is so mean. You isn't

55:43

the right thing to do. Like

55:45

that could be a hip hop. How

55:48

can I ever change

55:51

things that I did? I

56:00

hear the hip-hop in it, but I hear you. How

56:02

can that? It's

56:04

a little soft for you, my man. But I like

56:06

the hip-hop. I'm so angry,

56:09

though. Because they're looking

56:11

at each other and singing harmony. So

56:13

call me. You

56:16

can call me. That

56:18

is... That is ballsy. That

56:20

is nerve. That is... There's no

56:23

sneak disinvolved. There's no uncertainty who's

56:26

shouting at who in this thing.

56:28

So that, to me, is

56:30

insane. And they got through it, but

56:32

not without, like, collateral damage for the

56:34

other marriage, which dissolved between

56:36

Christine and John, Christine McVee on keyboards,

56:38

and John McVee on bass, and Mick

56:40

Fleetwood, the drummer, gets involved and sleeps

56:43

with Stevie. It's a mess, but a

56:45

beautiful mess, and one of the most

56:47

highest-selling records of all time. We

56:50

couldn't talk about beef without talking about that one.

56:52

So, Diallo, we're coming to the end of the

56:54

show. As a closing thought, let me ask you

56:56

this. In 20 years, when people look

56:58

back on this moment, and the Drake and Kendrick beef and everything going

57:00

on, what do

57:02

you think it'll represent, this moment in hip-hop? Man,

57:04

dang, I just... I

57:06

hope it's remembered as an exciting time for

57:08

hip-hop, you know, and not just some sad,

57:11

dark time. I will say at one point,

57:14

when all these songs are coming out, it's like, oh, man,

57:16

there's also bleak, and, like, are

57:18

people just lying? And, you know, I just needed some

57:20

happy music. Yeah. And so I'm

57:22

gonna go rogue right now and do one

57:24

more song. I'm gonna say for my

57:26

one more song this week, I'm

57:28

gonna recommend a new song that sounds like an old song. It's from

57:31

2017, but I only discovered it this year when

57:34

another DJ put it on at a party. The

57:37

song is called Lose Yourself to the Groove, and the group

57:39

is APX. It

57:42

feels like an 80s boogie track, and

57:45

it was something that I listened to that

57:47

feels light and summery when things got particularly

57:49

dark. Here's Lose Yourself to

57:51

the Groove by the APX. I feel you,

57:54

I feel you, keep

57:57

on... So

58:08

that's also 2017. I

58:18

love Buggy Niggas. Feels like 1983, 84. I

58:20

love that. Yeah. So we've gone

58:22

full circle. We've gone all the way back

58:25

to about the time N.C. Chan released the

58:27

bridge. That's beautiful. I love it. Help me

58:29

in this thing. Well, I've

58:31

been producer, DJ, and musicologist luxury.

58:34

No, you're not. You're lame.

58:36

You're a fraud. I'm sorry. I

58:38

can't come back from that. I've been designated. You've

58:40

been doing so many beats. The rage is coursing through

58:42

our veins. I'm actor, writer,

58:44

director, and sometimes DJ, the Olla Riddle.

58:47

And this has been one song. Please

58:50

stay safe out there. Be kind. Rewind.

58:52

And by the way, if you've made it this

58:54

far, that means that you like the show and

58:57

we appreciate the listenership. So please tell your friends,

58:59

like and subscribe on the podcast platform of choice.

59:01

Give us five stars. Write us a nice review.

59:04

Everything helps. Keep the show going. Not the

59:06

least of which is sharing it with your friends. So

59:09

send a copy over then. And you can find

59:11

us on Instagram. Send it on the

59:13

WhatsApp. All of your WhatsApp threads, all your text threads.

59:16

You can find me on Instagram at d-i-a-l-l-o. And

59:20

I'm luxury at l-u-x-x-u-r-y. And

59:23

that's the same on TikTok for you, right?

59:25

Sure is. I'm at the d-i-l-o riddle, so

59:28

you have to type in my last name.

59:30

R-I-D-D-L-E after the D-I-A. Hello. This

59:33

episode was produced by Matthew Nelson with

59:35

engineering from Marcus Homme. Additional

59:37

production support from Casey Simonson. The show

59:40

is executive produced by Kevin Hart, Mike

59:42

Stein, Brian Smiley, Eric Eddings, Eric Weil,

59:44

and Leslie Guam. Justin

59:52

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