0:01

Hello!

0:05

Welcome to

0:08

Oh No Ross and

0:10

Carrie, the show where we don't just report

0:12

on fringe science, spirituality, claims of the paranormal,

0:14

no way, we take part ourselves. Yep, when

0:16

they make the claims we show up so you don't have

0:18

to. I'm Ross Blaucher. And I'm Carrie Poppy and we're

0:21

back with Katherine Crick. What a topic

0:23

that gives and gives. Yep, what

0:25

an LA-based pastor. Yes,

0:28

that's right. And boy

0:30

has she taken over my YouTube Watch

0:32

Later list. Oh yeah, she

0:34

makes a lot of content. Yeah, I started

0:37

paying for YouTube Premium back when my, I

0:39

don't know, this was now a couple years

0:41

ago, my Watch Later list was like over

0:43

200. And I was like, I'm gonna aggressively

0:45

tackle this thing. I'm gonna watch all the

0:47

videos I intended to watch, which

0:49

I did. And so I thought I'd get

0:52

rid of the ads for watching videos on

0:54

YouTube. So I paid for YouTube Premium, got

0:56

it way down to like under 20. And

0:58

right now, Katherine Crick has boosted me to

1:01

like 70 something because I have so many

1:03

Katherine Crick videos that I'm saving and watching.

1:05

Okay, that wasn't as losing a story as I

1:07

expected it to be. Oh, okay. You know, usually

1:09

we sign up for these services and then a

1:11

year and a half later, you're like, I'm not

1:13

gonna learn the harmonica. I'm still paying for

1:16

it. And I'm kind of addicted to YouTube now.

1:18

That's where I get a lot of my news

1:20

watching clips of things. Yeah, for better or for

1:22

worse, there's a lot of good content on YouTube.

1:24

Sure, sure. Did you want to talk about whether COVID is

1:26

real or? What? I'm

1:29

making a joke about how people fall down YouTube rabbit holes.

1:32

Now yours is COVID is not real. Yeah,

1:35

yeah. I have not yet become convinced

1:37

of flat earth or COVID conspiracies. Too

1:39

bad. Too bad. It could be a good second arm

1:41

of this show, you know? Yeah. If one

1:44

of us goes off the deep end at some

1:46

point, that'll be an interesting dynamic. Yeah, we'll keep

1:48

going. Yeah, let's see what happens. People have

1:50

asked us this before, what we would do. And

1:52

we're like, I think just keep making this show.

1:54

Yeah. We both want to. That'd

1:57

be interesting. Yeah, like Kelly got... Kelly? You're

1:59

not Kelly. Like Carrie got

2:01

really into like more gallons disease.

2:03

Yeah, and I started Getting

2:06

wild about chemtrails. Sure.

2:08

Yeah. Yeah, then we

2:11

just keep going Person

2:13

would be like, okay at my my

2:15

greatest challenge yet Well

2:18

until then let's talk about Catherine Crick,

2:21

okay Let's so if you haven't

2:23

heard of her before you're behind

2:25

at least one episode Yeah,

2:28

check that one out because there's a

2:30

lot of context about Catherine's backstory about

2:32

how she was raised a Presbyterian

2:34

in New York small town, but

2:37

then moved to LA to pursue

2:39

her acting career and her Singing

2:42

career. She wanted to make Christian

2:44

EDM music, but then the Lord

2:46

sent unto her a prophet His

2:48

name is George a V. He

2:50

is from Tanzania. She received from

2:52

him an apostolic anointing She considers

2:54

herself now an Apostle no

2:57

formal schooling or anything for that Just

2:59

you know God chooses you to be

3:01

an Apostle and God doesn't want formal

3:03

schooling. He wants direct Message

3:06

sending. Yeah God to the people

3:08

well through a prophet So then

3:10

she started up her own church.

3:13

It was very very small for

3:15

very many years but

3:17

then the pandemic hit she started preaching

3:19

out in parks and Went

3:22

viral on tick-tock and now she has

3:24

tens of thousands hundreds of thousands of

3:26

people who see her stuff online Yeah,

3:29

and she does deliverance. She does healing

3:31

and one of these days. She's going

3:33

to raise the dead She

3:35

is the viral tick-tock faith healer

3:37

of the modern era You're

3:41

just ready with that. I'm so impressed. I Just

3:44

vaguely remembered what I said last time. Okay

3:46

now you're all caught up though. This reminds

3:48

me We didn't mention last time we found

3:51

again from one of these Christian

3:53

exposures on YouTube we

3:55

found the original acting

3:57

real for Catherine Crick

4:00

Yeah. So she moved out here

4:02

to be an actress and she

4:04

has precisely one credit on IMDB.

4:07

Is it a reality show? It is.

4:09

Okay, then I've seen it. That's right. It's

4:11

called Love at First Kiss. She

4:13

was out here, presumably all

4:15

alone, and she introduced herself on the

4:18

show as a 24-year-old virgin. Name's

4:21

Kat. I'm Kat.

4:23

I'm 24. I'm a virgin and

4:26

I plan to stay a virgin until marriage.

4:28

I came here to find love. I came

4:30

here to see what God has in store for

4:32

me. And she was willing

4:34

to kiss on screen, which says a

4:36

lot to kiss a man as the

4:39

first act of meeting him, essentially.

4:41

Yes. So yeah, the premise of the show

4:43

is two strangers walk into a room. They

4:46

have been selected for each other by the

4:48

producers. You walk in and you make out.

4:50

Yeah. You leave. You share

4:52

the shortest of pleasantries. Yeah, you're

4:54

like, hi, what's up? And then it's expected

4:57

that you will make out within a few seconds. The

4:59

woman then is, I guess she's not escorted

5:01

out, but she leaves. She goes to another

5:03

place, hoping that the guy will come and

5:05

ask for a follow-up date with

5:07

her. Yeah. I think they're both basically asked, do

5:09

you want to go to the room? Yeah.

5:12

So in this case,

5:15

she decides she wants to go

5:17

ahead and have that flash date

5:19

with him because the kissing was

5:21

pretty great. Okay. This

5:24

is crazy. I can't believe this life. What? What

5:28

just happened? Like, I feel like

5:30

I'm in heaven. Where's the clouds? And the

5:32

angels. I

5:35

would like to go on a speed date with this guy because I

5:37

want to know who he is. I

5:40

can't tell exactly what I pictured. That's what I wanted.

5:43

I feel like there was chemistry. I

5:46

feel like he's the one that God has planned for me.

5:48

I really hope you show that. I

5:53

Thought this was significant because I know for a lot of

5:56

people growing up in the church, in purity culture, even in

5:58

the church, even in the church. In

6:00

and Holding can be Oh yeah

6:02

abu. Bethany. Bill didn't kiss her, has

6:05

than and sell balls her off at

6:07

any deal. Some are girl defined episodes.

6:09

It's a new almost go back.

6:11

I'd been was mean to leaving

6:13

Eden podcast and a Cd. Carpenter

6:16

was raised in the I F

6:18

B the Independent Fundamental Baptist Church

6:20

and Sue at one point almost

6:23

got kicked out of Piles Anderson

6:25

College because of aside hugs with

6:27

a male. Yeah, it's so like.

6:30

Kissing someone is he of like you

6:32

said there with the bills? Yeah, I

6:35

like kissing his. Some time saved for

6:37

marriage as well so I guess it's.

6:39

Like a badge of honor. Like the really true.

6:41

Hardcore Christian really saved myself for

6:43

was yeah they drown, even kiss

6:45

and Tell the altar and there's

6:47

just this attached idea that it

6:49

muddies you are you are lot

6:51

less of a person after. yeah

6:54

that's like of it's I curse

6:56

thinking and nine once. You've done this

6:58

one time. Your tainted added that breath and

7:00

was it's for that one person than it's great.

7:02

But yeah, there was this young guy. good looking

7:04

dude so. Late Sen age twenty six

7:06

is an answer for New Earth. Late

7:09

at Not Clayton Late and blatant couldn't

7:11

even get to see on their site.

7:13

yeah he's I can Sunday our know

7:15

and Jim Brown. And as to gym

7:18

Ally okay sees wearing a bright blue

7:20

shirt. he clearly showed up on solving

7:22

day and or on cert and production

7:25

was like no. Now bold colors,

7:27

no logo is. get this the

7:29

next month, right? Blue sir? I

7:31

get that. Ah, yup, yup. That's

7:34

a replacement sort of I ever

7:36

saw on perfect teased windswept hair.

7:38

So they have a briefcase by him,

7:40

she looks twitter painted after the kiss

7:42

and then she goes to wait for

7:45

him and. You. See where this

7:47

is going listeners? You get stood

7:49

up and see married have

7:52

masterclass. Yeah, he doesn't sell. Out. So

7:54

as far as we can tell,

7:56

she has no stated romantic interests

7:58

or the signal. The and others I

8:01

should say. and so is she. still. A.

8:03

Virgin as trying to find another way to

8:05

say at the i don't know, I don't

8:07

know. Yeah, it's this. she doesn't. Theoretically

8:09

smarter than me, but right? She

8:12

might have a different theological view

8:14

on on that. Yeah, But doesn't seem like

8:16

it when she said that she's. Of Urgency. Talks about

8:18

the yeah Chris Kyle will talk about

8:20

some guys in her ministry. Yeah. So

8:22

yeah there's there's a guy that if I had

8:25

to guess if she's hurting anybody that a be

8:27

the guy. but it'll. Be a gathering of

8:29

the same guy I'm thing you know I

8:31

don't think so. Okay that the total speculation.

8:33

Yeah yeah now the told I've I do.

8:36

I just five Klein and our. My need

8:38

for when you're like you're feeling out the

8:40

vibe that you recognize that. Your. Clawing at

8:42

vibe. Wow. Like. I'm not gonna

8:45

claim any. heard. Of fact, check

8:47

here of this affects the pipeline.

8:49

yeah don't have that on. You

8:53

know it's a disclaimer: dance obsessive

8:56

or a fair enough, but we

8:58

can speculate because I don't know.

9:00

Sexes exciting, Ah, Sad has planted.

9:03

The. Have to ask Gray of has or

9:05

illegal? Yeah, have I? you know? Oh, that's

9:07

too bad. So I talked with Drew. Yeah.

9:09

Yeah, probably. I'd

9:12

sounds really nice. Autologous that this is

9:15

totally aside, were being pulled off in

9:17

the wrong direction by i hope she's

9:19

having sex ed Village everyone should. Assess

9:22

that she's not married or all.

9:24

Right so she would ready yet right? You'd

9:26

be Brady or at least doing some things

9:28

inconsistent with. I think the image that she's

9:30

creating a new is none of that is

9:33

here, nor is it there to thought. We

9:35

should mention her first tv exposure. Yeah, and

9:37

then there were some other little real bits

9:39

of for doing some acting. oh look like

9:42

very low budget stuff. Yeah, yeah, they're as

9:44

I can. now they're There is a clip

9:46

where she played. Zeus and adult film

9:48

star. She was trying to get this

9:50

nerdy looking guy who look like a

9:53

Mormon missionary to sleep under minors and

9:55

yeah, yeah, she's been very sexually suggestive.

9:57

In that said, in outside, the awkward,

9:59

stilted. I have a sexual suggestion of someone in

10:01

the school play who's never actually done it. That's

10:04

right. What do you drink? I

10:07

don't know. I've never had alcohol before.

10:10

That sounds awful. Here

10:15

you go. Cheers

10:17

to new beginnings. So

10:25

Jonas, do you have a girlfriend back home?

10:28

Oh, my head, a fiancé. Does that count? You

10:31

decided to move in with a porn star. So she

10:33

goes from clip one is I'm a virgin,

10:35

clip two is I'm a porn star, and

10:37

then clip three is I'm in the

10:39

park with my friends. And we've been

10:42

offered like a good housing situation thanks

10:44

to the YouTuber who collected all those and

10:46

put them up. Yes, that YouTuber's name

10:49

was Apostle Catherine Krick, full frontal

10:51

exposure. Thank you. Apostle

10:53

Catherine Krick, full frontal exposure. That's a

10:55

mouthful. So her acting

10:57

career didn't go very long. This is the message

10:59

there. Yeah. So a lot of actors

11:01

come to LA and their first few jobs, so these like

11:04

reality gigs where you're just trying to get tape of yourself.

11:06

And I expect that's what that was. Layton

11:08

was not the man that God had intended

11:10

for her. So hopefully

11:12

there is a latent demand

11:15

that will be fulfilled

11:17

by some other man. But I'm

11:19

saying maybe there's a latent

11:22

demand. Like

11:27

she's still holding a candle for Layton. Yeah, yeah,

11:29

yeah. Oh, okay. I got you. Well, Layton, if

11:31

you're out there, we'd love to chat with you.

11:33

Why didn't you show up for her? Her

11:36

life could have turned out so different. Wait a minute. Layton,

11:39

because of Layton Draper, not falling

11:41

in love with Catherine Krick, who,

11:43

by the way, throughout her book

11:45

mentions a few times that she

11:47

had always just wanted to get married and have

11:49

a family. Oh, Layton. Layton.

11:51

The trouble, you could have saved the world.

11:55

There wouldn't be a woman in downtown

11:57

LA healing HIV in children. It's

11:59

you. had just shown

12:01

up to this speed date and

12:03

for the good of society, married

12:06

a stranger. Just last

12:08

night I was talking with Cara and that's

12:10

my wife and I was saying if you

12:12

gave me a time machine and I just

12:14

had like a few moments to decide, I

12:16

would go back to Germany and

12:18

I would just... And just take in some

12:20

good art. I would bribe the Academy to

12:22

accept Adolf Hitler as a painter because he

12:24

got rejected. Oh, right. If he had just

12:26

gotten his painting career, he could have been

12:28

a hateful little man making bad paintings. Oh

12:31

yeah, this is Lindsay Pavlis' joke too.

12:34

That if she could... Some

12:36

people go back in time to kill Hitler, she'd

12:38

go back to encourage his art career. Yeah, yeah.

12:40

Just let you slip him a few bucks. Yeah,

12:42

yeah. Whatever the currency was at the time. Buy

12:44

some paintings or whatever. Yeah. Oh

12:46

yeah. Does anyone have a... Oh,

12:49

someone must be collecting Hitler's paintings, huh? Oh,

12:51

well, yeah. Like

12:53

the guy who was giving all

12:55

the money to Supreme Court Justice,

12:57

Clarence Thomas also has some original

12:59

Hitler artwork. Oh, wow. You

13:01

know, cool. I mean, I'm looking at the paintings, some

13:03

are kind of cool. Okay, let's not go down this

13:06

avenue. Oh, so destructible.

13:08

Okay. And it was just filling

13:11

in one more piece of her backstory. Yes.

13:14

Okay. So we get there, we

13:16

go to the church, we go to 5F Church

13:18

for our very first time. I'm at church. And

13:20

what do I bring with me? A broken toe

13:22

and two crutches. That's right. We

13:25

got there early because the church starts at 1PM.

13:28

Oh my God, this is the worst

13:30

thing you could do in the middle of winter.

13:32

Take people their entire Sunday away. Like almost all

13:34

of the late hours. She takes it away from

13:36

you on Sundays. Yeah, because I

13:38

was going to say this later, but

13:41

I'll just say it now. We were

13:43

there for four hours. That is too

13:45

long, Catherine. Catherine. Like Mormon Church is

13:47

three hours and that felt excessive. It's

13:49

crazy. Now, granted, we did

13:51

show up early. So it could have just been

13:53

three and a half hours. But yeah, we were

13:56

there a little over 30 minutes early. But yeah,

13:58

like eat lunch before you come. Have

14:00

a glass of water you are here

14:02

a while and if you leave early

14:04

She's gonna publicly shame you without using

14:06

your name, but and if you arrive late, she'll

14:08

shame you. Yes, exactly I have attended

14:11

her YouTube lives where she has

14:13

gotten mad that people came late Got

14:16

mad that people left early and gotten mad that

14:18

people aren't coming at all because they watch online

14:21

She filled with the spirit folks and all

14:23

she asks is that you come on time

14:25

and stay through the whole repetitive thing and

14:28

Plant yourself in her church personally. Yeah,

14:30

you think she wants the online following

14:33

clearly, but that's interesting that she yes

14:35

She wants you to like fly out

14:37

She talks about that a lot like it's

14:39

okay if you're planted here, but like actually

14:41

show up sometimes This should be like your

14:43

home church. I can see your face.

14:45

Yeah, and she's okay with scolding her

14:48

Audience flock for things like this and that's

14:50

a good point because she does in every

14:53

service We've attended and that I've seen she'll

14:55

call out specifically who's here for the first

14:57

time Uh-huh in this case It was like

14:59

10 to 15 of us you and myself

15:01

included and then people from other

15:03

countries or from far away And then she'll go

15:06

around and be like, oh, where are you from?

15:09

Where are you from? Oh, that's so cool And

15:11

we'll spend a fair amount of time covering the

15:13

various states and countries you came from

15:15

the second time that we went

15:17

She was like and we have some

15:19

international visitors She pointed at

15:21

both of them and they were both

15:23

from Canada technically. She's right. It's international

15:25

technically Correct part to the best kind

15:27

of correct. Technically. Yes Future

15:31

I'm a joke that I love as

15:33

we've mentioned bad neighborhood doesn't feel very

15:36

welcoming. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah low-income high crime

15:38

It's between two warehouses and this is

15:40

clearly a warehouse that's been kind of

15:42

scooped out and turned into a church

15:45

Mm-hmm. Yeah, this whole area used to

15:47

be like a factory area at one

15:49

point They had like textiles and toys.

15:52

I know were around there I only

15:54

know this because drew had drew Spears

15:56

production near there originally. Oh and

15:58

actually we did the Colin show near there.

16:00

That's right. That was filmed from nearby.

16:02

The art district they call that. So

16:05

you park where you can and as

16:07

we were getting out we saw like

16:09

a black SUV with somebody who looked

16:11

like the driver, like a

16:13

hired driver. And so I

16:15

thought, oh, maybe that's her vehicle, maybe

16:17

that's how she gets there. And as

16:19

we were leaving later, there were security

16:21

guards outside, like two of them sort

16:23

of blocking the back entrance. And

16:26

I assumed just kind of waiting for her

16:28

to personally escort her back to the black

16:30

SUV. That's how I painted this in my

16:32

mind. That makes sense. Yeah, but they had

16:34

guns on them. Oh, did

16:37

they? Yeah, I hate guns. Guns listeners to the

16:39

spot cast probably don't know, but I don't like

16:41

them. You've mentioned before.

16:43

Yeah. Okay. Another political books. Nope. Okay.

16:45

Actually, I end up reading a fair

16:47

amount of order. So

16:50

as we walked in, there's

16:52

a staircase leading up, which

16:55

doesn't seem very ADA compliant for a faith

16:57

healing church. They do have a ramp, but

17:00

you kind of have to go and get

17:02

someone's attention. And yeah, maybe just stand at

17:04

the bottom of the stairs and wait till

17:06

someone helps you out. And you were on crutches and

17:08

there was a very kind young man who helped you

17:11

to the top of those stairs. And

17:13

he at this point, my toe was real

17:15

broken. It's still broken. But this was week

17:17

one. Okay. It was still

17:19

purpley and unhappy. I

17:22

shook hands with him. And then there

17:24

was a young lady also clearly like

17:26

another greeter. But for me, it was

17:29

like a super awkward interaction. Like she kind of like looked

17:31

down on the ground like, Oh, well, you're a guy. It's

17:33

not my job to say hi to you. Oh,

17:36

okay. Oh, interesting. Yeah, I don't know if she

17:38

greeted you at all, but I don't know. She was very

17:40

young and she didn't see when she had the right demeanor

17:42

for a greeter. But maybe she lightened

17:44

up for other people. Yeah, I wonder if

17:46

she was an assigned greeter or not. It felt

17:48

like this is my job right now.

17:51

But I know churches work, you get tapped and

17:53

like, Hey, you get to be an usher this

17:55

week. I used to be an usher for a

17:57

long time, even after I became a non-believer, I

17:59

kept serving as a mentor. and usher at my

18:01

Presbyterian church. Sure. Gotta bring the

18:03

flock in. Anyway, so we were in,

18:05

and I was just kind of surprised

18:07

that nobody beyond helping you up

18:09

the stairs seemed at all interested in the fact that

18:12

you had crutches. Yeah,

18:14

yeah, I would say that's right. Expecting

18:16

them to narrow their focus in on

18:18

you immediately and be like, oh, let's

18:21

have you sit over here, or somehow

18:23

have a plan for you, or ask

18:25

you questions to maybe see. Because I've

18:27

heard this story with Peter Popoff and

18:30

other faith healers that they'll have a

18:32

crew looking for potential candidates that can

18:34

be prepared, queued up for

18:37

later faith healing. Yeah, Peter Popoff

18:39

being a faith healer of some renown

18:41

we've talked about before. Yeah,

18:43

okay. But yeah, this is an

18:45

old move of basically relying on

18:47

the ignorance of the rest of

18:49

the audience about how crutches work.

18:51

But it's usually a temporary solution

18:53

to a temporary injury that's not

18:55

terribly severe. If it were, you'd

18:57

probably be in a wheelchair. I

19:00

just had this experience, right? I got crutches, I

19:03

would hobble around on them. Sometimes they'd be useful.

19:05

Sometimes they wouldn't. Sometimes they get in your way

19:07

and it's better to hop. And you're like, I'm not

19:09

gonna make an 18 point turn. I'm

19:11

gonna hop and I'm gonna hand my crutches

19:14

to the guy next to me. And yeah,

19:16

like if you wanna put a miracle narrative

19:18

on that sort of task switching between using

19:20

and not using your crutches, you can, but

19:23

this is not impressive. Right, and as

19:25

a broader point, when you see a

19:27

faith healing and someone gets up out

19:29

of their wheelchair and walks towards the

19:31

preacher, this is a common thing. I've

19:33

seen Jor Davey do this. Probably, you

19:35

know, most people in that condition can

19:37

stand for a little while. That'll

19:40

look superficially impressive to someone

19:42

watching. Like, oh wow, you

19:44

threw away your crutches and you're walking

19:46

now healed. Yeah, you could

19:48

do that anyway. Yeah, yeah, and police get that

19:51

man his crutches back. Those were $75. Yeah,

19:53

and his $75 bottle of pills too. Can

19:57

you fetch those back? Oh god, yeah, yeah, yeah, I do

19:59

that. So anyways, there was no

20:01

special attention, no questioning paid. We just, we

20:03

sat down kind of on the right hand

20:05

side and picked an aisle seat so you

20:08

could move around if you needed to. And

20:11

there were about 270,

20:14

300 white folding chairs somewhere in that range.

20:17

And at the point when we arrived,

20:19

it was, we were very early, but

20:21

there were already. There were people.

20:24

Yeah, maybe 70 people. And

20:26

there, there was praise music.

20:28

Like if you were watching

20:30

this on say Netflix, there

20:32

would be like a little

20:34

closed caption saying inspirational Christian

20:36

music, uplifting, swelling music. And

20:39

these are live musicians. They're on, on the

20:41

dais and front. Yeah. There's a like

20:43

a keyboard. There's an actual like drum

20:45

kit with the plastic, like the acrylic

20:47

in front of it to deaden the

20:50

sound a little bit. And then more

20:52

microphones for just additional singers. Yeah. There's

20:54

a vocalist by herself. Big internal

20:57

space. So they've painted everything white.

20:59

So it feels very clean and

21:01

modern. But if you look

21:03

closely, like the windows are all vintage

21:05

factory windows. They're kind of cloudy and

21:07

some of them are opaque. And some

21:09

of them are skew and maybe missing.

21:12

And the little signs here and there

21:14

of the age of this place. So

21:16

yeah, it's the place that you have

21:18

like a rustic wedding. Oh, there you

21:20

go. Yeah. And you explored around the

21:22

front. You found what were they doing

21:24

off to the right? That was bad.

21:26

Oh, that was just bathrooms. Yeah. I saw people

21:28

coming out of this little side room and I

21:30

thought what's back there? I went. Okay. I

21:33

wondered to the back and there was a

21:35

room that was just kind of storage. Also

21:37

in the back on the other side, there

21:39

was the merch. Yeah. Oh, you're

21:42

excited. That's where I got

21:44

my famous sweatshirt. What is it? He'll

21:46

be sick. He'll be sick. Wait, cast out demons.

21:49

Maybe cast out demons is first cast

21:51

out demons. He'll be sick.

21:53

He'll be sick and raise

21:55

the dead. They were also

21:57

selling her book. Yes. Which.

22:00

You bought for both of us. That's right. The

22:02

secret of the anointing, accessing the

22:05

power of God to walk in

22:07

miracles by Catherine Crick. Fantastic.

22:10

Thank you. Oh, you're welcome. I

22:12

didn't get it for you till our second trip, but

22:14

you got the autographed copy. Yeah, that's how much

22:16

Carrie cares. That's right. I

22:19

was like, I'm not paying $500 to get my book. And

22:22

she regularly promotes the book. It's her first book. She's

22:24

very excited about it. And during the service, she'll be

22:26

like, Oh, make sure you get my book. Yes.

22:30

And so I said, okay, I will. There's also a lot

22:32

of technology around. Yeah, they've got

22:34

like a bunch of cameras. They are

22:36

actively recording all of this. They've

22:39

got this really interesting kind

22:41

of monopod that has mounts

22:43

on it for three phones.

22:46

Oh, yeah, you were really interested in this. I was

22:48

very interested in this. So one is horizontal in the

22:50

center, and then you've got two vertical phones on either

22:52

side of it. They're all

22:54

logged into, I assume, different

22:57

services and live streaming to

22:59

YouTube, Instagram, TikTok. That's smart.

23:01

And also they have a live

23:03

Zoom call. So there's so many

23:05

ways to participate. And they've

23:08

very actively taken advantage of

23:10

social media. Yeah, that's, you

23:12

know, she would say that the secret sauce

23:14

here is God's power. I would suspect it's

23:17

social media. Finescing.

23:20

She's great at it. She's

23:22

on every platform. She's always releasing.

23:24

She makes lots of short videos.

23:26

She edits them for clarity. You

23:28

get bing, bang, boom, one topic.

23:31

Yeah. That's good social media,

23:33

baby. Yeah, yeah, they're on it. And

23:35

clipped right in front of us on the back

23:37

of the seats are these

23:39

cards. So you can already start

23:41

filling them out. They say

23:43

stay connected with 5F, and

23:45

you can give them your name and address and

23:48

seek more information on how I

23:51

can serve, upcoming services and events,

23:53

how to receive and maintain deliverance,

23:56

which is just the euphemistic way of

23:58

saying demon casting outing. And

24:00

then we've also got an envelope that says ways

24:03

to give. You can text,

24:05

you can do it online at 5fchurch.org/give.

24:07

You can do it in service using

24:09

this offering envelope. You can do it

24:11

by mail using this offering envelope. You

24:13

can use the QR code below. So

24:15

many ways to give. If

24:18

you didn't grow up in the church, they had

24:20

these in pews all the time. There's always something

24:22

sitting in front of you where the Bibles go

24:24

asking for your money or your information. Yeah.

24:27

On the back of this envelope that

24:29

you can mail in, it says, Thank

24:31

you for giving to God and advancing His

24:33

kingdom through this seed. This is

24:36

going to be a theme today. May

24:38

you receive your needs and may this

24:40

seed produce fruit in your life. And

24:42

then we get the verse 2 Corinthians

24:44

9-10. This

24:46

generous God who supplies abundant seed

24:48

for the farmer, which becomes bread

24:50

for our meals, is even

24:53

more extravagant toward you. First He

24:55

supplies every need plus more. Then

24:58

He multiplies the seed as you sow

25:00

it so that the harvest of your

25:02

generosity will grow. How

25:04

convenient because what will be the topic of

25:06

the sermon this week, Carrie? Sowing.

25:10

Sowing a seed. Now I know

25:12

what you're thinking. Is it going

25:14

to be crochet? Is it going to be needle points? No,

25:17

this is sowing your money into

25:20

Catherine Crick's ministry. Really

25:23

hoping for embroidery there. So that

25:25

God will deliver to you tenfold,

25:27

sevenfold, seventyfold, a hundredfold what you

25:29

have put in. Yeah. And

25:32

she even later told us that

25:34

this was the second in a

25:36

series where the first week she

25:38

had preached the power of sowing.

25:41

And we've watched some of this and pretty much

25:44

the exact same message. But she

25:46

came back this week with how to sow

25:48

the spiritual way. I think she must have

25:50

just thought she didn't nail it the first

25:52

time. She didn't get enough money or she

25:54

had additional thoughts maybe. Yeah, something like that.

25:56

She's like, take two. One thing

25:58

I've learned about Apostle Catherine. Catherine Crick is you

26:01

hand her a microphone, she'll just talk, she'll

26:03

fill up as much time as you need

26:05

and more. Well,

26:07

we get it. We got you hand us a microphone, we will

26:09

fill up as much time as you need. I am talking to you

26:11

in front of a microphone right now. So,

26:13

there. I did a talk

26:15

at Skeptic's with a Pub where I ran over by

26:17

over 200%. Very good.

26:20

Yeah. That's funny. I was

26:22

recently on with recovering from religion and I

26:24

was there for four hours, but they did

26:26

have a Q&A afterwards and I just kind

26:28

of stuck around and the Q's kept coming.

26:30

Yeah. What are you going to

26:32

do? The Q-U-A. Though, I guess

26:35

we do like an ad break usually

26:37

that can be three to six minutes

26:39

depending on how many ad breaks we have.

26:41

And then at the end, we talk a little

26:43

bit about supporting us, but I would say we

26:45

spend less than 5% of our time

26:47

talking about how to give us money. That's true. Catherine

26:50

Crick spends, especially in this service, 80% of

26:53

her time talking about how to give her money. Yes. And

26:57

that is why this March during Max

26:59

Fundrive, you should become a mom. I'm

27:01

just kidding. Yes. No,

27:04

she's very heavy on imparting to

27:06

you that part of your dedication

27:08

to God is giving money to

27:11

her church. Yes. And

27:13

she'll mention you could give to any

27:16

church, of course, into God's kingdom, but

27:18

she'll only ever have one example. Exactly.

27:21

Yeah. What church should I give to?

27:23

For example, this one here. I don't know if I had

27:25

to pick one. This one right here. Because she

27:27

always presents it that way. For

27:29

example, you could give it here at my full

27:31

church. Oh, thank you for that

27:34

full example. I don't follow that. But never

27:36

says like Mosaic, the church that I

27:38

left. So the crowd just

27:40

continued to grow over time. So when we

27:42

first got there, I remember like 15% of

27:44

the seats fall. And

27:48

then when the church service started at one o'clock,

27:50

and we'd already had a fair amount of worship

27:52

at that point. It

27:55

was maybe like 30% fall. And

27:58

it just kept kind of creeping. to the

28:00

point where later on it's like, oh, everybody's in

28:02

seats now. Yeah. So I can see why Catherine

28:04

Crick is like, come on, everyone show up on

28:07

time. Stop just drifting in during my message. But

28:10

her message goes for like two hours. Come

28:12

on, lady, your church is really long and

28:14

it's had a weird hour. It's a diverse

28:16

audience. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yep.

28:18

A lot of Hispanic people. I

28:21

might say that that is the majority population.

28:23

A lot of black people, a lot

28:25

of white people, some Asian people.

28:27

Mm-hmm. Yep. Everybody's there. Yeah. I didn't

28:29

see any Maori. But if you were

28:31

there, please email Ross and tell him he did

28:34

not spot you. Oh, please. Yes. It

28:36

is a diverse church. And I guess it's pretty

28:39

evenly split. Male, female, if I had to

28:41

guess, I didn't notice any imbalance there. Oh,

28:43

that's a good point from our previous investigations.

28:45

If I had to guess, I would have

28:47

said it would be a mostly female audience.

28:49

But you're right. I think it was pretty

28:51

well matched. Yeah. You know, I know women

28:53

are more religious than men, but in the Christian

28:55

church, do we tend to see more women than

28:58

men? I'd say generally, yeah. I

29:00

wonder if it has something to do with her

29:02

being an attractive young lady. Oh, that

29:05

some men are going there to see the

29:07

hot faith healer. Yeah, no, maybe it

29:09

just makes it easier. Yeah. I

29:11

think also, you know, she

29:14

advertises healing things. And like

29:16

she really hits hard on stuff

29:18

like schizophrenia, where like, you're going to hit

29:20

more men. This reminds me, I

29:22

saw at least two guys who I

29:25

just instantly thought this guy currently has

29:27

a drinking problem. Oh,

29:29

man. Where both of them, and they

29:31

weren't together, both of them just look

29:33

kind of disheveled, red-faced and red-eyed. And

29:36

I thought, oh, man, yeah, you've come

29:38

here for help from this. And both

29:40

of them were later on participating in

29:42

like the healing portions and had the,

29:45

you know, were supplicating for attention and

29:47

healing. So maybe just because of the things she

29:50

claims to heal. Yeah. Good point. There's

29:52

a lot of volunteers around, and

29:54

you can usually spot them by

29:56

their shirts. Yeah, yeah. And they

29:58

are, well. Well, you know

30:00

what, actually I'll give five-fold ministry this. I

30:02

guess it's kind of consistent with their whole

30:04

five-fold thing. It seems like

30:07

people have very different roles. Like there are

30:09

the guys who might as well be her

30:11

security guards. They're falling around, giving you side

30:13

eye, deciding who to lead up to her

30:16

and then they catch the

30:18

person as they fall. And those people

30:20

have like kind of a creepy vibe.

30:22

And then there are these like, you know, happy

30:24

greeter types who are just like happy to see

30:27

you. Someone who's giving a

30:29

very hard sell other than her. Fair. She'll

30:32

have someone who comes up after

30:34

her, probably part of the ministry

30:36

team to deliver kind of a

30:38

final benediction. But yeah,

30:40

you're right. She is the main message

30:42

giver. There's of course a worship team,

30:44

people singing. There's one woman who's

30:46

running around taking pictures all the time, which

30:49

I always love because whenever there's active photography

30:51

and videography going on, it's like, cool, I

30:53

won't stand out. Then I can too. Exactly.

30:56

I feel like I stood out too much taking

30:58

videos on a regular basis. You know, we have

31:00

this assumption of this is a public event. There

31:04

is also the greeters and

31:06

people just kind of looking around, making

31:08

sure that things are working properly.

31:11

So yeah, a lot of minders walking

31:13

about people working in the merch shop

31:15

and you could usually tell them by

31:17

their shirts because they would be wearing

31:19

the merch, like black shirts that had

31:21

a bright shiny gold revival is now

31:23

in all caps. Or one that

31:25

says a vessel down the middle. And

31:27

another one I saw that said the

31:29

axe church is back. Oh yeah, I

31:31

like that one. Which always

31:34

interests me after Jesus left, you

31:36

had the axe church because the

31:38

same author who wrote Luke wrote

31:40

acts and told about how everybody

31:42

would give everything that they owned

31:44

away and they would just live

31:46

off of the common pot. And

31:48

it's somebody, it's like the description

31:50

of a communist communist culture. Yeah.

31:53

It's like the ideal church. And I remember

31:55

asking one of my good Christian friends years

31:57

back, well, if it was so good, why?

32:00

wasn't it sustainable? And

32:02

that kind of stopped him and he had to think about that.

32:04

Or why aren't you doing it now? Yeah. I'm

32:06

used to churches claiming that they want to be

32:08

that, but yeah, I mean, even here where they

32:10

wear shirts that say that, I don't see all

32:12

of them completely giving up their money, which would

32:14

be a big red flag. I've

32:16

seen lots of cults that do that. Yeah,

32:19

up to you. Everybody give your money to us

32:21

and we'll manage it, make sure you get fed

32:24

and housed and all of that. That's not even

32:26

what's happening here, but there is the emphasis on

32:29

casting out demons. Right. Oh

32:31

yeah, another one says on the back, the kingdom

32:33

of God is not a matter of talk, but

32:35

of power. Yeah, I bet that's

32:37

reassuring to her because she has this notion

32:40

that she's not a good speaker, but that

32:42

she has an anointing that passes through her.

32:44

Yeah, like she tries to draw the

32:46

parallel with Moses. He started out as

32:48

not a good speaker, but then he

32:50

turned into one. So, boy,

32:53

boy, boy, boy does she speak

32:55

a lot. So clearly she's over

32:57

whatever that was. I just have

32:59

to point out, I really love

33:01

that they have 5fchurch.org and 5fmerch.com.

33:03

Nice. I gotta give it to

33:05

you then. Oh, you bet they should have done .org

33:07

the second time though. Pretty clever. Yeah, let's see

33:09

if I can get to both of them

33:11

with .orgs and .coms. This is

33:13

important. 5fmerch.org,

33:16

no sir, doesn't work. Whoa,

33:19

wait, what is this? Oh, oh

33:22

wow, somebody bought 5fchurch.org. .com

33:27

and they've painted her as like,

33:29

Elphaba. Yeah, the evil witch of

33:31

the west. Wow. What

33:33

is this? Wait, merch drop, wait,

33:36

click on merch drop to the

33:38

right of her eye. Wait,

33:41

doesn't it say, okay. Mia

33:45

Quacko, by the person? Mia Quacko,

33:47

it is yours. What's Mia Quacko?

33:49

That was what they were saying

33:51

in Tanzania when they were anointing

33:53

her. They kept saying Mia Quacko.

33:55

Oh, it is yours, okay. And then the translation

33:57

would be, it is yours. Mia Quacko, it is

33:59

yours. The o'clock and ah man

34:01

that a blunder. see that's how

34:03

they want to for said X

34:05

C L clearly has hey yeah,

34:07

let's let's let's say Five F

34:10

church.com and hers is.or yeah, wow,

34:12

she lost the U R L

34:14

battle on that one. Wow! Merged

34:16

with the me o'clock Now

34:18

I'm selling out this. Contact

34:20

form as day one. Well this

34:23

is fun find. The banner says.

34:25

Five. Sake Church. Well yes

34:28

she is. She's made some

34:30

enemies. Oh. Oh.

34:34

And there's this is. This six

34:36

so this is obviously also. A

34:38

smooth itself. but what sucks going

34:40

on with at oh of her

34:42

with a family and like that

34:44

of faces are all success. I

34:46

don't know what's going on here.

34:48

it's. Size sake church person.

34:51

Didn't. Had what the heck a deal in.

34:53

Django to sear deal. What Is this?

34:56

What are we looking at? Rock. I

34:58

don't know. Young someone who doesn't like

35:00

her. Life her vet also like

35:02

the a couple card sort of attack. Quite

35:05

possibly says he has is a real

35:07

picture of her with a family. And

35:10

then look as a kid space. Yeah, it looks

35:12

like they've been modified. They take an adult

35:14

faces and put them on the yeah. I'd

35:16

like her face shrunk into a

35:19

baby or something. Oh, this is

35:21

interesting someone. Oh no. Oh no. I.

35:23

That's what I'm looking at. We're both

35:25

looking at this air med. So now

35:27

that says when the leader of a

35:30

second call appoints us had demon slayer

35:32

that as Catherine cracks and she going

35:34

down receiving me. Annoying thing from Zora

35:36

Davey. Own: They're showing that she's wearing song

35:38

underwear that you can see through her. Drop Their.

35:40

Sit. There like they have this,

35:42

zooms in on her ass which

35:45

sees not trying to show us,

35:47

she just. Happens yeah in such a way.

35:49

or this makes me uncomfortable. yeah yeah no

35:51

i said that a cistern in such

35:53

a way that you can see that

35:55

she has a nice but and she's

35:57

wearing song and directs to this person

35:59

is zoo in on it to say

36:01

she's being what inconsistent by wearing a

36:03

thong? I guess so. Is that the point? I guess so. Just

36:06

give me a outfit, get off of it. Alright

36:09

well that is pyvefchurch.com, very different. Oh my goodness, it's

36:12

a lot of your deal other guy. I

36:14

wanted to say about this entry

36:16

worship music. Yeah,

36:19

yes. So they start singing when you come in.

36:21

It's a familiar setup to anyone who's gone to

36:23

church. It's people at the front singing songs. If

36:25

you know them you sing along. If you don't

36:28

they're projected on a screen to the side and

36:30

you just kind of learn the tune and you

36:32

pick it up. And there's always

36:34

one phrase that's just repeated 40

36:36

times. And in this case it really

36:38

is 40 times and

36:41

they seem to be encouraged to do this

36:43

sort of improvisation as they go. I almost

36:45

want to say scouting but it's not scouting.

36:48

But like you'll be in the middle of

36:50

a phrase and instead of just being like God is

36:52

good they'll be like God is he so good why

36:54

is he so good nothing is as good as God

36:56

oh he's so good I wish I could go to

36:59

Taco Bell after this he is so good you

37:01

are so good Lord we rely on your faithfulness

37:03

thank you to God you are the greatest and

37:05

the goodest of all how good

37:07

you are then you

37:09

see the pianist like trying to oh oh we're

37:12

still in that part yes absolutely I'm backing you

37:14

up and then finally back to

37:16

happening okay God is good to

37:18

us good we're back to the

37:20

the main thing God is good

37:22

to us oh but now we're gonna

37:24

repeat it God is good to us a

37:26

lot of that yeah at least a half

37:29

an hour of that which I've

37:31

come to think of as being

37:33

this assistive device to get people in

37:36

something of an altered mental state yeah

37:38

a lot of repetition getting you standing

37:40

up maybe even a little tired and

37:43

lightheaded just from the same chanted

37:45

mantra over and over again I think

37:47

it plays an important role in Christianity

37:50

yeah when we went the

37:52

second time I was actually thinking

37:54

oh I bet everybody's having that sort of

37:56

trance like feeling right now but I'm not

37:58

cuz I don't know these songs and

38:00

it takes a certain familiarity to get there

38:03

and then they just happened to break into a

38:05

song with which it was familiar and I felt

38:07

just that feeling like, fill

38:10

me up. Yeah, you're right. It's taking me

38:12

back and you really do have these kind

38:14

of place memories tied to that

38:16

and halfway through this very repetitive song,

38:19

you're an expert in it because you've

38:21

now sung it. Because God is very good. He

38:23

is so good. I love him so much. Did

38:27

I ever tell you about the time that I went to

38:29

see Ellen taped? Oh yeah, and you came

38:31

up and won a dancing contest? I did. Thank

38:33

you for remembering that. That's what I remember. But

38:35

I bring it up because... Oh yeah, they wanted

38:38

to get you in that same kind of state.

38:40

For like an hour they make you

38:42

like dance and scream and jump

38:44

around and do contests. By the

38:46

time she came out, my friend

38:48

Caleb and I were like teary

38:50

with like, she's... They

38:58

just exhaust you so bad that

39:00

yeah, you're in this sort of

39:02

like relief elation state. Yeah,

39:04

yeah, okay. They sound

39:07

like torture methods on

39:09

some level and maybe this is another reason

39:12

why she scolds people for arriving late because

39:14

then they're missing... Ellen. Catherine

39:17

Craig, maybe Ellen. For

39:20

not having received this full kind

39:22

of preparatory process. Yeah, oh, that's

39:24

a good point. By the time

39:26

she came out, there was similar

39:29

elation. The crowd got up, standing,

39:31

ovation. And to us, it

39:33

felt like she had waited a really long time. Turns

39:35

out, she came out like six minutes after the hour.

39:37

So kind of when she was supposed to. But to

39:40

me, it felt like there had been so much anticipation

39:42

just with how long worship had gone on. But first

39:44

she's got to sing for a very long time. Oh,

39:46

that's right. She's got to do her

39:48

own improvisational singing. God, I love you

39:50

so much. He

40:00

is the one who gives

40:02

the most of his life.

40:05

I'm a free-time affair.

40:08

And in love with his way, he

40:10

is no trust, no

40:12

reason to care. He is

40:17

a free-time affair. He is

40:19

a free-time affair. Don't have

40:21

to stop me. I

40:23

am the one who gives the most of his life. He

40:30

is a free-time affair.

40:34

Don't have to stop

40:36

me. Don't

40:40

have to stop me.

40:42

Don't have to stop

40:44

me. Don't

40:48

have to

40:50

stop me. Yeah,

40:56

that's like a perfect example of her

40:58

just scatting. Like you said, she can

41:00

just fill up time, saying the same

41:03

thing multiple times, interlacing it

41:05

with variations on the same phrases.

41:08

Yeah, it's just improv. My friend Zach... Is

41:10

it a kill? I don't know. Yeah, oh

41:13

yeah, no. My friend Zach Reno hosts a

41:15

podcast called Off Book that you and I went to

41:17

a taping up on. Yeah. Musical

41:20

improv is very hard to do well. Oh,

41:23

absolutely. What they were doing is

41:25

at a different level. They were like writing

41:27

a musical in real time. It's

41:30

quite impressive. It is impressive.

41:32

Go listen to Off Book. And yeah,

41:34

we sing a little more. She's part of the worship

41:36

team for a bit. But she's

41:38

wearing a black silk shirt

41:41

and jeans, fashion. It's both modest but

41:43

also alluring because it's all kind of

41:46

shiny. She's, I

41:48

think, found kind of that happy

41:50

balance. Yeah, you want to look like you could go to a

41:52

work interview Yeah, I think

41:54

overall the flavor of the room was

41:57

business casual. Nobody wearing suits. But

42:00

people wearing generally nice clothes. So not

42:02

Sunday best, but Sunday pretty good. Yeah,

42:04

I was wearing a dress and then after

42:06

it, I was like, I don't need to wear a dress

42:08

next week. I can get away with pants. Right, and if

42:10

you come in with a t-shirt, you'll be totally fine. Yeah,

42:13

I'm gonna pick you out. You're not gonna stand out. Do I

42:15

want them to be welcoming? I don't know, but

42:17

they did welcoming. And a

42:20

very, very dark lipstick. Hmm,

42:22

okay. She's so happy to see us.

42:24

She calls us her spiritual sons and

42:26

daughters. Yeah, not to be confused

42:28

with spiritual spouses that'll come up later.

42:31

Yes, which I

42:33

was kind of surprised by to hear that right at the

42:35

top that I was her spiritual daughter. I've just

42:37

met you. You know? Yeah,

42:40

all right. I don't know. You're younger

42:42

than me. I don't know. I

42:44

don't feel like I'm your daughter, but. That's funny.

42:46

I guess you can just assert that. It didn't

42:48

really register with me, but now that you're fat,

42:51

I'm fine being her adopted spiritual son. Okay, okay.

42:53

Well, I just, in general, I guess, people

42:56

I know, if you want to be my parent,

42:59

ask me. Okay. Don't

43:01

just become my parent, okay? I

43:03

don't like it. Never fair. And

43:06

then she said that they had just

43:08

made an update. They're gonna be doing

43:10

Spanish translations. On Zoom, yeah. So

43:13

that this word can get to more people.

43:15

And make sure you're always hitting the

43:18

share button, and we've got the link

43:20

in the bio on Instagram. Yes, you

43:22

would regularly address the online audience because,

43:24

frankly, well, I was gonna say it's

43:27

larger than the in-person audience, but it's

43:29

actually not true necessarily during the service.

43:32

You'll look at the numbers, and they might be

43:35

middling or small, just like, oh, there's

43:37

only 25 people here. Oh, okay, we

43:39

got up to 60 on this platform. Yeah,

43:41

I think most of her

43:43

views, downloads, listens, whatever they are,

43:45

come later. But yeah,

43:48

you check back a week or two later,

43:50

and now you've increased your audience 18-fold more.

43:54

A lot of people watching her online. If

43:57

it was just this congregation in LA,

44:00

this would feel like less of a concern to

44:02

me than it is. Oh, yeah, yeah,

44:04

yeah. With the online reach. Yeah, because clearly

44:06

when it was just a congregation

44:08

in LA, it fluctuated, you know,

44:10

it got, it rose a little. It even went down. And

44:12

then went down to like two people at one

44:14

point. Right, right. Yeah, no, this is

44:16

the magic of the internet for sure. So

44:18

she called out us first timers,

44:20

and then, yeah, we had people

44:22

visiting from Ukraine, Ecuador,

44:25

Belize, Japan, and the

44:27

UK, yeah? They're

44:29

far away places. They sure are. Gosh, I want

44:31

to see Belize. Oh, yeah, that would be great.

44:34

So the woman from Belize came up and

44:36

shared her testimony. So yeah, every now and

44:38

then there'll be a little interruption to what

44:40

is otherwise the Catherine show. She'll

44:43

bring someone up to stand with her for

44:45

a moment. And testimony means getting up

44:47

and talking about how God has worked

44:49

in your life. But in this context,

44:51

testimony means you have to learn about how

44:53

Catherine Crick worked in your life. And then

44:55

at the end saying, but all glory to Jesus. Yeah,

44:59

it's a constant tightrope. She walks between, look

45:01

at me, look at me. But

45:04

it's not about me. Yeah, yeah. It's not

45:06

about me. Right, and I'm just the vessel, just

45:08

the main vessel. But

45:10

just the vessel, but the main vessel. So

45:14

that woman, I thought it was kind

45:16

of telling when she told her story,

45:19

what had stood out to her about

45:21

Catherine was that she had watched Catherine

45:23

do a prayer over someone else online.

45:26

And the woman receiving the prayer

45:28

online, I guess had been a

45:30

non-native English speaker. And

45:33

Catherine was so patient with her and

45:35

kind and not making her speed up

45:37

or talk quicker and was happy to

45:40

repeat herself. And it was just being

45:42

in general, a good bilingual inviting speaker. It

45:44

is nice. And this woman now on stage

45:47

giving your testimony is like, I saw you

45:49

doing that. You were so patient. And that's

45:51

when I stopped and

45:53

I asked God, like, if this is really the

45:55

woman, I thought like,

45:58

man, that's so interesting. All

46:00

it took was sincerity. You

46:02

just spotted in her like the sincere

46:04

kind of sense, that was enough. That

46:07

got you to, God has

46:09

imparted the cure for HIV

46:11

into a person. You

46:13

know? Yeah. Yeah. And

46:16

the way the woman started her story, she said, I

46:18

first saw you online and I thought this is a

46:20

little, little weird. It kind of a little joke at

46:22

how this does seem strange on the surface of it.

46:24

Sure. Elephant in the room. Right.

46:27

But I kept watching and then I said, okay, well, I'll read

46:29

her book. And then I'll come here. And

46:31

she thanked Catherine Crick for helping

46:34

her get free of religion. Yes.

46:38

Which? You'd think going to

46:40

a church and hearing

46:42

Bible verses all day would be part

46:44

of the process of getting more involved

46:46

with religion? Yeah. No, Siree. The

46:49

first time I heard this, I shifted forward in

46:51

my chair and I was listening and I was

46:53

thinking, okay, I missed something. I thought she said

46:55

she wanted to get away from religion. That can't

46:57

be what she said. Mm-hmm. Let me

47:00

replay the tape in my head and

47:02

try to make this make sense. No,

47:04

Catherine Crick thinks she is not doing

47:06

religion. Right. That religion

47:08

is bad. And she'll even list it

47:10

in a list of spirits that are

47:12

attacking people or making their lives horrible.

47:16

Religion will be one of them,

47:18

the spirit of religion. And it

47:20

really feels to me like one

47:22

of those cult tactics where you

47:24

redefine terms so you can

47:26

condition responses from your flock.

47:28

Yeah. I remember even when I

47:30

was in college and my famous

47:32

Christian boyfriend that I talked about

47:34

many times, he and I were

47:37

talking about Jesus in some way.

47:39

And he said, well, you know,

47:41

I've never thought of Christianity as a religion.

47:44

It's just a relationship. I know. I

47:46

mean, even then I was a Christian and I was like,

47:48

get real. What do you mean?

47:50

That one always bothered me too.

47:52

Yeah. I remember that. Come on. This

47:55

is our religion. We're the weak thinking and

47:57

talking about this and letting it direct our

47:59

lives. and making allowances around it when

48:01

the facts don't add up with it.

48:04

Of course, this is our religion.

48:06

Yeah. Come on. Come on. Let's

48:09

be honest here. Come on. It fits. It

48:11

could be more than that to us, but it's still a religion. Yeah.

48:14

Yeah. It's like saying the US

48:16

isn't my country, it's my homeland. All right. All

48:19

right. But you know what the word country means

48:21

and that's yours. Okay. I

48:24

hope I never said that. I feel like I

48:26

was never comfortable with that to begin with the

48:28

whole. It's not a religion, it's a religion. And

48:32

she also said that they had saved up

48:34

money and this was her birthday gift coming

48:36

out here to the Catherine Crick Church from

48:39

Belize. Also, I gotta

48:42

say, if you're having a

48:44

relationship with someone who's not in the room, it is

48:46

not a good relationship. It

48:49

is probably a religion. Fair. Anyway,

48:52

I go on. And that'll write alongside

48:54

her use of the word Pharisees. In

48:56

the Bible, the Pharisees were the Jewish

48:58

religious teachers of Jesus's day who would

49:01

give Jesus a hard time because they

49:03

were all tied to the law and

49:05

all these things and felt he was

49:07

blasphemous. And so thought of as too

49:10

legalistic. Exactly. Exactly. That's the

49:12

spirit of it. And so she'll constantly be

49:14

calling other proponents of the

49:16

church Pharisees because they've got their focus

49:18

in the wrong place, not on the fivefold church.

49:21

Right. Yeah. She

49:23

even gives the woman an anointing. No oils involved, just touches

49:25

her forehead. This is a pretty common occurrence. And

49:27

that was enough for the woman. I think she

49:29

was maybe just eager. She traveled all this way.

49:31

She wanted to have something that felt like a

49:33

deliverance. So she

49:35

started coughing and then laid down carefully,

49:38

not to hurt oneself, and then raised her

49:40

hands and they have a ready response for

49:42

this. So it was the first time we

49:44

saw this, but this would become a common

49:47

occurrence where someone would fall over backwards or

49:49

forwards and they would just kind of lay

49:51

on the stage for a while. The

49:53

cleric would keep doing her thing, but someone would come

49:56

over and lay a blue blanket across them. They

49:59

could just be there with their hands. raised for a while or

50:01

chilling, you know, while the spirit does its thing.

50:03

Yeah. Is it, so you've had more

50:05

experience with big tent, revival kind of

50:07

stuff. Is that not typical to usually

50:10

get up quicker? Yeah. Good question.

50:12

I guess it's fairly typical. I've, I've definitely

50:14

seen that kind of behavior. It's just funny

50:16

how ready they are with the blankets. Yes.

50:18

And with the men standing behind you to

50:21

help lower you to the ground carefully. Yes.

50:23

Trust follow you. Definitely seen that elsewhere, but

50:25

yeah, it's heavily used here. Oh

50:28

my God. Every revival

50:30

fall is a trust

50:32

fall. I'm Carrie Poppy. Yeah.

50:34

New t-shirts. Yeah. You're trusting the

50:37

culture around you to explain

50:39

the scenario to you, right?

50:41

Bumper sticker. Every

50:44

revival fall is a trust fall. There

50:49

was a brief interlude because someone was

50:51

standing up and had a son who

50:53

clearly had special needs. We encounter him

50:56

later. Yeah. And Catherine

50:58

Crick prayed for a sound

51:00

mind. Yeah. The women's

51:02

scenes refer to some kind of mental illness

51:04

and yeah. And the young

51:06

man was nonverbal and

51:09

Catherine Crick prayed over him and healed

51:12

him. And then he came up

51:14

later because he still wasn't healed. True.

51:16

And even after she held him the first time, he

51:18

ran off and, you know, beyond the

51:21

problematic nature of healing such a thing, he

51:23

was clearly not different from. From how

51:25

he was before. Yeah. Yeah. Oh goodness. It

51:27

was so frustrating because she would regularly say

51:29

things like, and you may not

51:32

notice any physical change today. Yeah.

51:34

And don't let that be a stumbling

51:36

block to you. Don't let that. Don't

51:38

let that be disconfirming. Just

51:41

preparing you to advance. You may not notice

51:43

anything different later on. Yeah. Except for the

51:46

fact that I just prayed and declared that

51:48

you were completely healed of all things. Yeah.

51:51

It's a dare. You know, it's like I

51:54

challenge you to call, to call me a

51:56

liar here, you know. you

52:00

in such a such a bad spot as

52:02

her father.

52:06

I felt so bad for that particular lady and we'll talk about many other people

52:08

that Catherine addressed but later on I could

52:11

see her holding up notes and I don't

52:13

think English was her first language but she

52:15

had like this is the mother of the

52:17

young man mm-hmm she had notes that she

52:19

could say later and I noticed other people

52:21

came up with notes because Catherine will have

52:23

you renounce things in your life past influences

52:26

satanic things that you've done anything to do

52:28

with the occult and so yeah sometimes people

52:30

come up with a little prepared list on

52:32

their phone or on a piece of paper

52:34

and the mother had this note and I

52:36

got a good glimpse of it she wrote

52:39

his name and said no speaking still in

52:41

diapers he runs away he does

52:43

strange stuff he and his father

52:45

don't understand and yeah I missed

52:47

some of the rest of it

52:49

I just got fragments of words

52:51

but oh your heart just yeah

52:53

for this lady yeah for her

52:55

son yeah there's a lot of

52:57

talk about curing autism at this

52:59

church and I mean it's

53:02

put in those terms it is put

53:04

as curing and she's curing autism

53:06

with an A curing something that is

53:08

just a part of a person's makeup

53:11

who they are right right what does

53:13

that even mean yeah they cure a lot

53:15

of stuff at 5f Church yeah and

53:17

sometimes the categories are just wild oh

53:20

yeah I was gonna say people bring up

53:22

those lists like you mentioned to disclaim stuff

53:24

because disclaiming your sin is supposed to be

53:26

freeing but then on the list will also

53:28

be things that they clearly just want to

53:31

be freed from and they want to put

53:33

in their plea to God so they'll say

53:35

things like I disclaim pornography and ADHD yep

53:37

now you're at least doing something in one of

53:42

those two things you

53:45

know yeah it just seems

53:47

like everyone has sort of gotten there's

53:50

been a modeling going on where everyone is

53:52

building these lists based on what they've seen

53:54

before at the church but there's no particular

53:56

direction about how to actually do this but she'll

53:59

save the main healing service. We've

54:01

shot a little forward into time here. She'll

54:03

save that for later. But first, we have

54:05

to have two hours of a sermon about

54:08

sowing the right way. Yeah. Sowing spiritually into

54:10

the house, the kingdom of God. You know,

54:12

the traditional religious way that you give is

54:15

to, and she pulls up scripture verses for

54:17

all of these points and has them up

54:19

on the projector. And sometimes she'll address it,

54:22

sometimes she won't. But the idea is, you

54:24

know, we're all familiar with the concept of

54:26

tithe. You give 10% of your

54:29

income to the church. Yeah. This

54:31

is the typical Christian expectation. Yeah.

54:33

Whatever your home church is.

54:35

10% of your income. That's

54:38

huge. And there's disagreement about

54:41

whether this is net or gross, but

54:43

either way, it is a large

54:45

amount. Yeah. And growing

54:47

up, all the churches emphasize that. In

54:49

the Mormon church, you'll have a bishop

54:51

actually ask you before you can renew

54:53

your temple recommend. Have you been faithfully

54:55

giving? Yeah. 10% is a lot. When

54:58

you drop that little Pascal's wager square

55:00

where you're like, well, nothing lost if

55:02

you believe in God and he's not

55:04

real. Well, have you been giving 10%

55:07

of your income your whole life? You've

55:09

lost 10%. But

55:12

yeah, I mean, that's the opportunity cost for

55:14

other philanthropic work too. Once you've spent 10%

55:17

of your income, you're not given to

55:19

doctors without borders very easily. Right.

55:21

Right. And you're assuming that the

55:23

church is paying it forward into

55:25

whatever realms are important. And yeah,

55:27

sometimes churches do great charity work.

55:30

They will actually provide food for

55:32

people and always applaud that. But

55:34

also those funds will be used

55:36

towards proselytizing or just will

55:38

go straight into the church and not go out and

55:40

do any of the social stuff. It's as good

55:42

as the decisions of that church, which

55:45

the church is beholden to very little

55:47

standards like a nonprofit at least has

55:49

to tell the government every single year

55:51

which projects they did that

55:54

year, why they're tax deductible, why they're

55:56

good for society. They have to at

55:58

least file paperwork about that. Churches

56:00

can do basically anything they

56:03

want that isn't violently illegal.

56:06

And they don't even have to report

56:08

to their IRS in most cases. So

56:10

it's just way less checks and balances

56:12

on your philanthropy. So you're thinking, wow, Catherine

56:15

Crick wants 10% of your income, but

56:17

guess what? That's not enough. So

56:19

she uses the verse Malachi from

56:22

the Old Testament, 3-8, will a

56:24

man rob God, yet ye have

56:26

robbed me. But ye

56:29

say, wherein have we robbed thee in

56:31

tithes and offerings. This is King

56:33

James, by the way, so we have all the

56:35

these going on here. Ye are cursed with a

56:37

curse, for ye have robbed me, even this whole

56:40

nation. Bring ye all the tithes

56:42

into the storehouse, that there may be meat

56:44

in mine house, and prove me now herewith,

56:46

saith the Lord of hosts, if I will

56:48

not open you the windows of heaven and

56:50

pour you out a blessing, that there shall

56:52

not be room enough to receive it. So

56:54

her takeaway from this is that 10% of

56:58

your income is just enough not

57:00

to rob God. Right,

57:02

right. And you need to be giving on

57:04

top of that. And she

57:07

says basically, you should feel the pinch.

57:10

It should feel like a sacrifice. If it

57:12

doesn't, you aren't doing this well. That's

57:14

right. And of course, she'll trot

57:16

out the message of the widow's might. This is

57:18

a famous story from Jesus. I

57:20

think he was there, like he brought the

57:23

disciples to a temple and pointed to this

57:25

widow who gave just two mites, which is

57:27

like, you know, two pennies, very little, but

57:29

she had so little to begin with. So

57:31

she is giving more than anybody else. That

57:33

is the message. And so she is to

57:35

be honored for that. But look

57:37

at these Pharisees. They give bigger sums of money,

57:40

but they brag about it. It doesn't harm them

57:42

at all. They're not giving till it hurts.

57:44

She's giving when it hurts. Yeah,

57:46

which is a fair point. If

57:49

the end is good, you know,

57:51

it's fair to say, oh, Jeff Bezos, I'm so

57:53

impressed that you gave $100,000 to this thing, but

57:56

you're on an island. Fine.

58:00

But you earn that every two

58:02

hours. Right, right. Whatever. So,

58:05

fine point to make, but in this case, what's the

58:07

end goal? Yeah, the end goal,

58:09

it feels very much, is to squeeze

58:12

as much money as you can out of these people.

58:14

And a lot of the things she said just like, turn my

58:16

stomach. Like she said, if you

58:19

have one dollar, you should be

58:21

giving 20 cents. And

58:23

wait a minute, that's 20 percent. Yeah, it

58:26

should feel like. She doubled it. So like

58:28

a sacrifice. And she said, and this

58:30

is all like a spiritual principle. It

58:32

won't make sense in the world, but

58:35

there are so many stories of people

58:37

who have given and not known how

58:39

God would provide for them. Here's

58:42

another one that turned my stomach. She said, maybe

58:44

you're not getting your needs met. You need to

58:46

sew more. Ugh. Ugh.

58:49

Yeah. You know, looking around,

58:52

there's a lot of people who

58:54

are of a lower socioeconomic status.

58:56

Oh, this area is like, yeah, it's one

58:58

of the poorest areas in LA. Oh,

59:02

another point she was making, she said,

59:04

Jesus destroyed the curse of the law.

59:07

And I thought, oh, that sounds harsh. But

59:09

then I found in the Bible, hadn't thought about

59:11

this for a long time, Galatians 3 13, Christ

59:15

has redeemed us from the curse of

59:17

the law, having become a curse for

59:19

us. For it is written, and this

59:21

is from Deuteronomy, cursed is everyone who

59:23

hangs on a tree, which is

59:25

an interesting verse. Like what does that mean for

59:27

Jesus? First, it is everyone who hangs on

59:30

a tree. Yeah, here's the verse from Deuteronomy 21.

59:33

Sorry, I'm also jumping translations here, just whatever

59:35

came to me quickly. ESV, and if a

59:37

man has committed a crime punishable by death

59:39

and he is put to death and you

59:41

hang him on a tree, his body shall

59:44

not remain all night on the tree, but

59:46

you shall bury him the same day for

59:48

a hanged man is cursed by God. Oh.

59:52

So the author of Galatians was hearkening

59:54

back to that, but it just

59:56

seemed like such harsh language to say the

59:58

law, which God gave his. people is

1:00:00

a curse. I know. I

1:00:03

also found this confusing when I was a

1:00:05

Christian because people would say Jesus

1:00:07

came to obliterate the law, which he

1:00:10

did say. But elsewhere it says he

1:00:12

did not change one jot or tittle. Yeah,

1:00:14

and he came to fulfill it. It's

1:00:16

all, it's really back and forth on this

1:00:18

aspect. I mean, what it

1:00:21

seems to be really telling you is like there

1:00:23

is a point at which you can be too

1:00:25

legalistic. Feel that out intuitively

1:00:27

and once you've passed it, we're going to call

1:00:29

you a Pharisee. And there's also a point at

1:00:31

which you're not trying hard enough. Do that too

1:00:34

much and we're going to call you a lukewarm

1:00:36

Christian. There's some middle ground, we're all trying to

1:00:38

hit it and it's going to be totally different

1:00:40

to every person. Just however you're

1:00:42

feeling in the moment about the law and

1:00:44

its role in the current plan of God,

1:00:46

there's scripture for you to justify it. I

1:00:49

agree. It always just felt like

1:00:51

this weird wishy-washy thing. I know what we

1:00:53

kind of believe on this, but it seems

1:00:55

like we invoke one set of scriptures in

1:00:57

one situation where we want to keep a

1:00:59

certain part of the law about like homosexuals

1:01:01

or shellfish. No, that's one of the ones

1:01:03

we use the other set of verses. We're

1:01:05

like, well, that went away. It's outdated. You

1:01:07

don't need to worry about making a

1:01:09

code out of two kinds of different cloths.

1:01:12

Yeah, yeah. What a curse that was.

1:01:14

Yeah, I don't know what the actual

1:01:16

answer to that is because it's never

1:01:18

consistent. It should be exciting

1:01:20

to give. That's another reminder we're

1:01:22

given that you won't get the same

1:01:24

spiritual protection if you're just giving because

1:01:26

you have to. Yeah. You should be

1:01:28

thrilled about it. Yeah, and we were

1:01:31

just waiting for the freaking hat to

1:01:33

be passed through this period. Yes. Because

1:01:36

it's so obviously setting you up for... We're

1:01:38

going to pass around a collection bucket. What did

1:01:40

they call that? Time to get... offering. Offering.

1:01:42

Offering. That's what we called it in my church.

1:01:44

Never was that word used here, I don't think.

1:01:46

Yeah, I don't think so. But yeah, we're all

1:01:49

waiting for offering. Yeah. Usually

1:01:51

there's some little message that reminds you of

1:01:53

giving and that's when you give. But

1:01:56

in this case, it was all that. So I'm like, here we

1:01:58

go. I'm passing the bucket. All right, I'm ready. And

1:02:00

after the first hour of this we

1:02:02

kept looking at each other like well if we're gonna

1:02:04

give we're ready to give And

1:02:09

I remember this feeling from church because if

1:02:12

you had a regular church where you were

1:02:14

tithing well Then you've already kind of prepared

1:02:16

that either you're giving it then or you

1:02:18

nowadays you've like set up a auto pay

1:02:23

But I remember like if you were at a

1:02:25

different church where you're not a regular member You'd

1:02:27

kind of be looking through your wallet and this

1:02:29

was before like everyone had credit card readers

1:02:31

everywhere So there would always be this

1:02:33

kind of calculus of okay. Well, let's see. I've got a

1:02:35

20 and I've got a 10 Yeah,

1:02:37

what's the right mix? Okay. Well, I don't feel

1:02:39

like you know, I'm just visiting here So I'll

1:02:42

get I'll give $10 and so embarrassing when you

1:02:44

realize you don't have cash. Yeah. Oh my god

1:02:46

Oh, yeah, you have to make excuses or maybe

1:02:48

go find someone you can talk to about okay

1:02:50

Can I give my credit card here because that

1:02:52

used to be a lot harder to do? Absolutely,

1:02:55

and then you have all the pressure of the people

1:02:58

sitting to the right and left of you Because

1:03:00

you don't want to be the person who just

1:03:02

grabs it and passes it along because you're busy

1:03:04

judging Those people yourself

1:03:06

right and now you're gonna receive

1:03:08

judgment Yeah, but did that ever

1:03:10

come Gary not really so instead she

1:03:13

allows you to give in a variety

1:03:15

of ways You can give cash by

1:03:17

coming to the foot of her altar

1:03:19

by going to her dais and leaving

1:03:21

it there in a box But

1:03:23

you can also donate on your phone in a

1:03:25

couple of different ways Yeah And

1:03:28

this really surprised me because I am

1:03:30

used to mainstream churches where they'll say

1:03:32

during that offering time Hey, we've got

1:03:34

people coming around with the little square

1:03:37

devices attached to their phone They can

1:03:39

help you process a credit card payment

1:03:41

now But with Catherine crickett'll

1:03:43

just be oh hold your phone up if

1:03:45

you're going to give at 5f church

1:03:48

org slash give Yes, the coin

1:03:50

of the realm here is internal guilt

1:03:52

instead of that social pressure aspect

1:03:55

it seems to me Mm-hmm. There's just

1:03:57

I don't know kind of more trust

1:03:59

that people will follow up and do what they're saying

1:04:01

they'll do, then I would have expected.

1:04:03

I think she has cultivated a

1:04:06

very sort of guilty,

1:04:08

anxious kind of audience who

1:04:10

is going to follow through

1:04:12

absolutely. Yeah, and I guess

1:04:14

it's worked for her because as we've seen in the last

1:04:16

two 990 forums, the

1:04:18

church is taking in over $2 million per

1:04:20

year. And

1:04:23

Catherine Crick's take of that is listed

1:04:25

as zero. Somehow I don't think her

1:04:27

take of that is zero. Yeah, we'll have to talk

1:04:30

more about their 990s. I

1:04:32

need to look more into this, but I was so

1:04:34

confused to see they had even filed them because

1:04:36

churches aren't required to, but we'll talk

1:04:38

about that more. Oh,

1:04:40

here I have where she said, some of

1:04:43

you will be freed today but won't feel

1:04:45

anything physically. Would

1:04:49

that happen to me? We'll see. That's

1:04:51

right. You've still got crutches in a

1:04:54

bruised toe. Yes. Well, Ross, I

1:04:56

will tell you about my toe, but not now.

1:04:58

Okay. Absolutely not because first,

1:05:00

I think we should talk about the

1:05:02

internet. I'm a fan of the

1:05:05

internet. Yeah. I've gotten so accustomed to

1:05:07

being able to learn new

1:05:09

things all the time, whatever my curiosity

1:05:11

is right in my pocket. There's

1:05:14

this device and I can access the

1:05:16

world's knowledge immediately. It's amazing. I

1:05:18

remember card catalogs when I was a kid. Sure. They're

1:05:21

great too. They still got it. I still

1:05:23

like card catalogs. If you're a card

1:05:25

catalog listening, don't take offense. He still likes

1:05:28

you. I'm just saying it took a little longer. You

1:05:30

had to make a plan in advance, like, I got

1:05:32

to look that thing up later. Yeah. But

1:05:34

now arguments are settled in the moment. You get

1:05:37

corrected right away. Yep. Move

1:05:39

along with new knowledge. You've got to find a good source.

1:05:41

That's all thanks to websites. Yes. That

1:05:43

good source, that reputable

1:05:46

source might be at

1:05:48

a Squarespace website. Hey, if

1:05:50

you've got knowledge to share with the

1:05:52

world, get a Squarespace website. Yeah. Use

1:05:55

sourcing. That's right. And if you're

1:05:57

interested in more work so that when other people rely on your work, then

1:05:59

it'll be reliable, good work.

1:06:02

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1:06:04

and do it on a Squarespace

1:06:06

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1:06:08

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1:06:11

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1:07:02

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1:07:04

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1:07:06

oh what's the CSS code to make sure that

1:07:08

it auto like resizes based on the button. I

1:07:10

don't want it to look like a square one. It's supposed to look

1:07:12

like a rectangle. Exactly. Squarespace does that for you.

1:07:15

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1:07:27

Catherine Crick, also a user. Do

1:07:30

you want to do worse than Catherine

1:07:32

Crick at something? Right.

1:07:34

Well that thing could be the internet. She's really good at

1:07:36

it. So step it up. You

1:07:38

seemed a little rapturous while talking

1:07:40

about Squarespace. Thank you. You know

1:07:42

what else makes me flow with

1:07:45

neurotransmitters eating good food. Oh

1:07:49

shushay. I love good food.

1:07:51

So wait, now I'm going to talk like Carrie. But

1:07:53

also I like convenience, you know, so whatever

1:07:55

you're about to say, I bet it can't

1:07:57

possibly hit both points. Well, you're me.

1:08:00

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1:08:21

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1:08:23

it delivered to our home offices and I

1:08:26

was like oh this is genuinely really good

1:08:28

I'm so glad it's really good

1:08:30

so good with these kinds of

1:08:32

things so good that I would take photos

1:08:34

of it yeah you know when you have a

1:08:36

meal and you're like I should take a picture

1:08:38

of this yeah to send to Carrie or to

1:08:40

my wife and be like hey check out what

1:08:43

I just ate yeah like this mushroom tomato and

1:08:45

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1:08:47

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1:08:50

ordered the vegetarian selection and yeah they

1:08:52

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1:08:54

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1:08:56

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1:10:13

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1:10:15

you're black, you probably love you some paramour, huh?

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1:10:21

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1:10:28

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1:10:30

to the title, it is not a podcast about the band Paramour. Each

1:10:33

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1:10:35

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1:10:37

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1:10:39

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1:10:51

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1:10:53

recent episode featuring Sharja Sal today.

1:10:56

So we've already been doing this for a while. And

1:10:58

then she says that she's going to move on to

1:11:00

the next type of sewing. And

1:11:02

Carrie leans over and says, is it embroidery?

1:11:05

And I was hoping for crochet, but nope.

1:11:08

That's not what she's talking about. She's

1:11:10

talking about demonic influence and how that

1:11:12

is tied to your giving. Yes,

1:11:16

the Monica Prussian. And

1:11:18

she says it's very, very big. Many people are

1:11:21

stuck with demons. Oh my goodness. The point

1:11:23

that she makes, and this is

1:11:25

a Catherine Crick talking point. It's not just

1:11:27

in the sermon. She says this regularly, that

1:11:30

you need to sew spiritually to

1:11:33

get deliverance. Yeah, so

1:11:35

if you have a demon, which

1:11:37

boy, that's all ball of wax right there. You have

1:11:39

some kind of symptom or whatever that makes her think

1:11:41

you have a demon, then you

1:11:43

need to give her money to get

1:11:46

it out. And of course

1:11:48

she'll say that without saying that, except

1:11:50

it's pretty overt. Yeah, you can give

1:11:52

any amount because you can put it in an envelope and

1:11:54

walk it to her. And she wouldn't necessarily know

1:11:56

it was in there. Fair, and you could get

1:11:58

the deliverance and then. be told later

1:12:01

to do it or you know again she'll just kind

1:12:03

of assume you're gonna follow through but

1:12:05

she's telling stories of someone who was

1:12:08

looking for deliverance for her son and

1:12:10

nothing was working but she went to

1:12:12

the website and right as she clicked

1:12:15

the pay button that's when he went

1:12:17

back to being normal. Oh I missed

1:12:20

this. Oh yes that's

1:12:22

the right word. She would say

1:12:24

that sewing will protect

1:12:26

you from getting possessed again. Okay. She

1:12:29

would also say that if you had given

1:12:31

money to a psychic that

1:12:33

there's a spiritual principle again no

1:12:35

Bible verses flash up during this

1:12:37

because none support this but that

1:12:40

if you've given money to a

1:12:42

spiritualist or something negative that you

1:12:45

need to give more back to

1:12:48

God. Yeah, to kind of like clear

1:12:50

this debt. I've heard her talk about

1:12:52

karma before and say what I'm

1:12:54

saying probably sounds like karma but that's

1:12:56

just the New Age world trying

1:12:58

to take over one of God's principles which

1:13:01

is you know reciprocity for what you put in.

1:13:03

Yeah, strange that it's not spelled out in the

1:13:05

scriptures that way. Yeah. Let's say you've gone to

1:13:07

one of the storefront psychics like we have where

1:13:10

they'll regularly depending on how they size you up

1:13:12

they may ask you for $400, $600, $1,000. If

1:13:14

you've given to them as many of the people

1:13:21

that we've seen in this church have she'll

1:13:23

ask you how much and she'll expect you

1:13:25

to give more than that now to Catherine

1:13:27

Crick. Oh did she actually ask? Well

1:13:30

maybe people just offered but I

1:13:32

remember monetary values getting locked out.

1:13:34

Yeah, okay, yeah. Gosh and that's inviting

1:13:36

such rumination and obsession you know. Oh

1:13:38

my god did I give okay five

1:13:41

years ago I went to that psychic

1:13:43

with my mom and she paid but

1:13:45

it was $125 does that count? Okay.

1:13:47

The parking

1:13:50

there was 20 bucks is that included? Yeah I

1:13:52

mean I remember thinking that way that sort

1:13:54

of obsessive scrupulous you know. What is God

1:13:56

expecting of me because I don't want to

1:13:58

go to hell. So is this

1:14:01

it better give 30% more than

1:14:03

that? Yeah. Yeah. The way that

1:14:05

these kinds of messages can interact

1:14:07

with certain brains can have multiplying

1:14:09

effects, really drive people

1:14:11

to distraction. Yeah. She was also

1:14:13

introducing other strange language that just,

1:14:16

I hadn't heard heretofore that threw

1:14:18

me, she kept talking about keys,

1:14:21

spiritual keys. And

1:14:23

she would say a thing like, uh,

1:14:25

some people need multiple keys because they've

1:14:27

had, I guess multiple infestations of demonic

1:14:30

presence. And like one phrase

1:14:32

she said that just made no sense to

1:14:34

me was the spirit of religion hates the

1:14:36

revelation so much. They will not release the

1:14:39

keys. And I was like, wait, what,

1:14:41

what are the keys? Okay. Yeah. Let's see.

1:14:44

Spiritual keys needed to unlock

1:14:46

these chains I have in my

1:14:48

notes here. Yeah.

1:14:51

These keys seem to be like

1:14:53

pieces of revelation, helping insights that

1:14:55

God gives you. I wonder if

1:14:57

it's just the, the five F's. I

1:14:59

wonder if she's really just talking about the

1:15:01

prophets and the apostles. Cause she's

1:15:03

so heavy on that. I think she has a

1:15:06

specific meaning and I think I'm going to, I'm

1:15:08

going to unlock the keys at some point if

1:15:10

I keep listening to her, but she regularly references

1:15:12

them. Uh, another phrase that we

1:15:14

mentioned in the last episode is that she'll

1:15:16

keep talking about being new wine. Oh

1:15:19

boy. This was driving me insane. This

1:15:21

is the new wine revelation and

1:15:23

the religion hates it. The Pharisees

1:15:25

hate it. This brought out

1:15:27

my most surly James Randi

1:15:30

inside of me. I was

1:15:32

like, listen young lady, you

1:15:34

think you've got some new wine

1:15:36

up there? She's 32. I'm 40.

1:15:39

I'm like acting like I'm double

1:15:41

her age. But I was like,

1:15:43

are you kidding me? Like you,

1:15:45

you're the new wine. You're doing

1:15:47

what people have been doing in

1:15:49

church my entire life. Plus,

1:15:52

and you're standing up there saying

1:15:54

you have a new wine. Like nothing

1:15:56

could be older than what you're doing.

1:16:00

I think like her greatest skill is

1:16:02

just the chutzpah, like that she can

1:16:05

just get up and say these bold

1:16:07

proclamations about herself and her church and

1:16:11

just fill up air on the microphone and

1:16:13

like nothing ever seems to Stop her to

1:16:15

a point where she's like, I don't know

1:16:17

if I should say this or not She's

1:16:20

like, let's just go with it. Keep going.

1:16:22

She's gonna say whatever the words. I'm anointed

1:16:24

And I tried looking this up and I

1:16:26

saw that there is a Hillsong worship song

1:16:29

called new wine So hill song

1:16:31

is a very prominent Evangelical religious

1:16:33

movement kind of a church of

1:16:35

itself So the lyrics say in

1:16:38

the crushing and the pressing you are making

1:16:40

new wine in the soil I now surrender

1:16:43

you are breaking new ground So

1:16:45

I yield to you into your careful

1:16:47

hand when I trust you. I don't

1:16:49

need to understand I hate that

1:16:51

kind of language when I trust you. I don't

1:16:53

need to understand. Oh, yeah, Jesus bring new wine

1:16:55

out of me You don't think

1:16:58

it's this Matthew 9 17 first neither

1:17:00

do people pour new wine and told wine skins that

1:17:02

they do the skins Will burst. Oh, that

1:17:04

must be the reference. Okay. Yeah, that wasn't coming

1:17:06

to mind So here's what that IV says

1:17:09

neither Do people pour new wine into old

1:17:11

wine skins if they do the skins will

1:17:13

burst the wine will run out and the

1:17:15

wine skins? No,

1:17:18

they pour new wine into new

1:17:20

wine skins and both are preserved

1:17:24

I think it's kind of a backwards

1:17:26

justification for starting her own church,

1:17:29

you know Oh, I needed to leave

1:17:31

mosaic or these other LA Popular

1:17:34

churches and be the new

1:17:36

wine and the new wine skin the new building,

1:17:38

you know I see a reference

1:17:40

here where they're talking about the same passage

1:17:43

but Paralleled in Luke 5 so okay. There

1:17:45

you go. That has to be it People

1:17:47

will latch onto one little thing Jesus said

1:17:49

and name a church or a movement out

1:17:51

of it. Yeah, okay new wine We're a

1:17:53

band Joseph clay. Yeah, that's right.

1:17:55

But Joseph clay is really good. We

1:17:58

were two hours into the service and

1:18:00

she was showing zero signs of stopping, and we

1:18:02

didn't know what we'd signed up for. Oh my

1:18:04

God, there were so many times where she

1:18:06

said, am I next point or something like

1:18:08

that? And I thought, oh my God, it's

1:18:10

not even your last point. Yeah, so

1:18:13

around this time she was talking about

1:18:15

the story of Cain and Abel, which

1:18:17

we've covered many times before, but the

1:18:19

idea that- Adam and Eve's kids. Abel

1:18:22

had the more acceptable sacrifice because he

1:18:24

offered dead animals unto the Lord and

1:18:26

a pleasing aroma. You can say anything

1:18:29

you want about God, but he loves

1:18:31

the smell of burning carcasses. Fucking meat.

1:18:33

He's a meat bro. The

1:18:37

worst kind of dude, the guy who's like,

1:18:39

oh, are you a vegan? And

1:18:42

then like puts bacon in your face. You're like, wow,

1:18:44

you really did it. Yeah, I've never seen meat before,

1:18:46

thank you. God's

1:18:49

that guy. I'd never encountered the phrase meat

1:18:51

bro before, but I know the type you're

1:18:53

talking about. What was my other new phrase

1:18:55

today? New line, you invented that. No, something

1:18:58

about clawing. Five clawing.

1:19:00

Yeah, I don't think that's going anywhere.

1:19:02

Five clawing, meat bros. I'm

1:19:04

gonna try to come up with a third one by

1:19:06

the end of this recording. I feel like meat bros

1:19:09

might catch on. Yeah, yeah, I think five clawing is

1:19:11

gonna do well. With

1:19:14

our audience. Oh, okay. I

1:19:16

don't remember what it is. Well,

1:19:20

it was because we were talking about who she

1:19:22

might be sleeping with. Oh, yes, yes,

1:19:24

it's where you, okay, yeah, it's where you

1:19:26

speculate and then excuse it. Okay,

1:19:29

all right. You're like,

1:19:31

I've just, I've entered this into the

1:19:33

lexicon, into your minds, but I'm taking

1:19:35

no. Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh,

1:19:37

definitely. No personal responsibilities. Oh, yes, I

1:19:39

just claim responsibility, that's correct. Well, I

1:19:41

gotta say this reminds me of one

1:19:44

of my favorite words, which is apophysis.

1:19:46

It's the mentioning of something by claiming

1:19:48

not to mention it. Like, we

1:19:50

won't even mention his tax returns. Well,

1:19:52

you just do. Right, right. Which is

1:19:55

very clever. Anyway, so I don't

1:19:57

know, that just always seems very strange to me, even

1:19:59

as a Christian. Again, this is one

1:20:01

of the things that I thought okay. We've

1:20:03

been taught that God is spirit He's not

1:20:05

physical only when he needs to be but

1:20:07

somehow he likes the smell of burning meat.

1:20:09

He loves barbecues so much It's a weird why?

1:20:11

What does that mean? Fucking

1:20:13

deal. Why is that a pleasing aroma? Still

1:20:16

don't know what the answer to that would

1:20:18

even look like. Yeah. Why why does he

1:20:20

like that? He loves he loves barbecue because

1:20:23

that was introduced by sin like there was

1:20:25

no death beforehand Yeah, good point.

1:20:27

Why does he like meat when the Garden

1:20:29

of Eden was vegetarian? What's

1:20:32

your deal God she was talking

1:20:35

about witches putting

1:20:37

curses on people that kill them and

1:20:40

Just all this talk about witches and

1:20:43

curses and like how to get out

1:20:45

of these curses You need to unlock

1:20:47

these prophetic spiritual keys people

1:20:49

will literally Service of

1:20:51

the devil witches will put curses on people That

1:20:54

will bring death to a person Send

1:20:57

demonic spirits to them and that brings a person death

1:21:00

if they don't have Jesus Or

1:21:03

if they aren't protected where the anointing is and they're not

1:21:05

open up to the new wine To

1:21:07

get out of this curse to get out of this bondage

1:21:09

like what I'm sharing today and the

1:21:11

people will really die You

1:21:13

see things like these demonic concerts sometimes

1:21:15

and people tons of people dying at

1:21:18

one time. It doesn't make sense logically.

1:21:20

It's spiritual There's

1:21:22

dark stuff going on that's that's hidden

1:21:26

There's witches putting curses on people

1:21:28

using demons and without the power

1:21:30

of God in your life demonic

1:21:32

power is stronger Than you without

1:21:34

the power of God So

1:21:37

it's working people are getting curses on them people

1:21:40

are dying from these curses and When

1:21:43

they die that's counted as a sacrifice to

1:21:46

the devil from that witch that did that

1:21:49

And That gives

1:21:51

them more demonic powers that gives them blessings

1:21:53

from the devil But the blessings of God

1:21:55

God come without sorrows the blessings from the

1:21:57

devil come with sorrow come

1:21:59

with hell in your life. You

1:22:01

get one thing and you get a lot of bad

1:22:03

things that surpass the good thing

1:22:06

like success or whatever or

1:22:08

money. That's what's going

1:22:10

on in the spiritual realm. This kind

1:22:14

of deep, dark witchcraft stuff is

1:22:16

going on where sacrifices are being

1:22:18

made, demonic sacrifices and

1:22:21

people pay prices for these

1:22:23

sacrifices. These

1:22:25

witches, they pay money. They make

1:22:28

money. They send money to the devil

1:22:30

as sacrifices, sending

1:22:32

it to a person saying this person, they'll be

1:22:34

cursed. They take

1:22:37

their own money, lots of money and

1:22:39

make sacrifice to the devil that

1:22:42

this person would have this curse. And so what ends up

1:22:44

happening in these deep demonic cases

1:22:47

is people have these curses

1:22:49

from deep witchcraft on them.

1:22:51

These demons are going to go in the

1:22:54

sermon. These demons are going to go just by

1:22:56

the command. It's deeper. It's so much deeper than

1:22:58

this. The

1:23:00

prophetic key that's needed in this

1:23:03

case is sacrificing to God, making

1:23:06

a sacrifice into the kingdom of God.

1:23:09

So much custom language. This feels

1:23:11

so cult like along with

1:23:13

the bite model, like the thought control,

1:23:16

that you're changing people's language by introducing

1:23:18

these kind of new terms and ways

1:23:20

of thinking. But also I just kept

1:23:22

thinking, well, first of all, show me

1:23:25

one witch. Show me just one witch

1:23:28

anywhere who can do any of this

1:23:30

stuff that you're talking about. And we're

1:23:32

talking about like millions, billions of Christians

1:23:35

around the world. Where's this army of

1:23:37

witches who is one by one casting

1:23:39

these spells and curses that are affecting

1:23:41

all these poor Christians who are having

1:23:43

a hard time in life? What do

1:23:46

you think she thinks of the witch

1:23:48

trials? She

1:23:51

thinks that's a witch story. I'd like

1:23:53

to ask her. That's interesting.

1:23:55

Yeah. Is the point of the story that there

1:23:57

were actually witches? Right. Was it a good thing

1:23:59

that they? were prosecuted and

1:24:02

persecuted? Or does she believe like

1:24:04

us? Those weren't actual witches, they

1:24:06

weren't actually flying on brooms, they

1:24:08

weren't actually turning Goodie Michaelson

1:24:11

into a cat?

1:24:13

Yeah, I find... Show me one

1:24:15

witch! Just one! Who can do

1:24:17

any of this stuff? Right! Because

1:24:19

she can win the half million

1:24:21

dollar prize from the CFIIG. But

1:24:24

I mean, we have examples

1:24:27

in history of people actually getting murdered over

1:24:29

this shit. Yeah, I know. Just

1:24:32

throwing that around when you don't have any

1:24:34

particular evidence. Yeah, and it

1:24:36

seems unwise. And I feel like

1:24:38

this came from your Davey. Uh-huh.

1:24:41

Because I know... Right, her spiritual

1:24:44

father, I feel like in Africa... Our

1:24:46

spiritual grandfather. Touché, that's right. I forgot

1:24:48

we were adopted, but I fully claim

1:24:50

it. And I know

1:24:52

in Africa, belief in witches is really strong.

1:24:55

Yeah. And I feel like he must use

1:24:57

this as a talking point all the time

1:24:59

and that it's kind of accepted. Yep, all

1:25:01

this witchcraft going on, you've all been affected

1:25:03

by witchcraft. But the number of times she

1:25:05

would invoke that as a potential explanation

1:25:07

or people would renounce things in their

1:25:10

lives, they would renounce all spirits of

1:25:12

witchcraft. And I think, there's not enough

1:25:14

witchcraft to go around. I

1:25:16

know some very nice witches and they're

1:25:18

doing private ceremonies and having a grand

1:25:20

old time, but it's not about you

1:25:22

and they're not trying to seek your

1:25:24

ruin. Yeah, I wonder if that means

1:25:27

I saw a tarot card reader or

1:25:29

I used a Ouija board or

1:25:31

something like that. But also, I've seen

1:25:33

a number of people come up to her

1:25:35

and say that they renounce witchcraft in their

1:25:38

family line. Yes. Oh yeah,

1:25:40

generation. Yeah, which then becomes like,

1:25:42

do you even know this? Do you even

1:25:44

know that you have witchcraft in your family

1:25:46

line? Or is this an assumption that she

1:25:48

has layered on you because of your cultural

1:25:51

heritage? Or is this an association you've

1:25:53

got with your cultural heritage? Do we even

1:25:55

know? And then on top

1:25:57

of that, so God punishes the church.

1:26:00

Children of the father because the father

1:26:02

was a witch come on That's another

1:26:04

one where the Bible is so wishy-washy You

1:26:06

can point to verses where it says God

1:26:08

will visit these curses on X

1:26:10

number of generations and the sons and the sons

1:26:12

of sons But then others where they say go

1:26:14

God doesn't do that Like there's a very specific

1:26:17

story where Jesus says no like this young man

1:26:19

did not inherit the sins like he was trying

1:26:21

to get Rid of that idea. But what do

1:26:23

you do with all the passages that do say

1:26:25

that? Whatever you're trying

1:26:27

to argue use a different piece of scripture and

1:26:29

yeah You brought up such an important point that

1:26:32

not only may you not know that the witch

1:26:34

cursed you but that Curse

1:26:36

may have happened before you were born and you

1:26:38

just heard it. You've just inherited it Yeah,

1:26:41

it describes a worse world than the

1:26:43

one I think I live in no

1:26:45

kidding Just all of these secret enemies

1:26:47

and dark shadowy Hijinks

1:26:49

going on and yeah, this felt

1:26:51

very reminiscent of Bob Larson though

1:26:53

Bob would be a little more

1:26:55

explicit with like the cultural assumptions

1:26:57

like oh no, he's talking

1:26:59

to a black woman He's gonna bring

1:27:02

up like the slavery. Yeah. Yeah, or

1:27:04

some tribal To

1:27:06

bring up voodoo with with his block and you

1:27:08

can just call it in advance Like, you know,

1:27:10

whoever he's talking to oh, he's talking to this

1:27:13

tall white blonde guy. He's gonna talk about

1:27:15

the Norse gods Right. Oh, it's it's

1:27:17

a Latina woman. He's gonna talk about

1:27:20

Catholicism Mm-hmm. Yep, all of that was

1:27:22

very frustrating and we're very far into

1:27:24

it But now she

1:27:26

calls everybody up to receive a

1:27:28

healing and to offer their There's

1:27:32

the yeah. Yeah, and of course

1:27:34

she'll avoid scrupulously I feel

1:27:36

like I want to do like a transcription and

1:27:38

then word search just to see if she ever

1:27:40

even said the word money I feel like okay.

1:27:42

I feel like she did a scrupulous job of

1:27:44

avoiding the word money She says money

1:27:46

33 times. Hey, okay. There we go. I take

1:27:48

it back But I think you're

1:27:50

right that it's not usually in terms of

1:27:53

her giving a command. It's usually in terms

1:27:55

of her describing someone's situation Okay.

1:27:57

All right. Well, that's plenty of references to money

1:28:00

It just felt like there was always this

1:28:02

kind of euphemistic dancing around me

1:28:04

wanting money from you. Right. How do I

1:28:06

say it without saying it? Totally. Yeah. So

1:28:08

where she says money is like, you

1:28:10

receive money, but you don't even know whether

1:28:13

to give it back to God. Stuff

1:28:15

like that. Yeah. The actual instruction is

1:28:17

vague. This is where she said that

1:28:20

thing I was mentioning earlier. To illustrate

1:28:22

the principle of sowing into God's ministry,

1:28:24

she mentioned that this woman in Houston,

1:28:26

that she was ministering two years ago,

1:28:28

had a son who was manifesting.

1:28:31

They visited multiple deliverance ministries and the woman

1:28:33

came to her and said, I don't know

1:28:35

what to do. Like this won't

1:28:37

go away. And then

1:28:39

she revealed to Catherine that she had

1:28:42

given money to psychics, hundreds of dollars.

1:28:44

And that it was generational. That does.

1:28:46

I know. Yeah. I'm kind of ready. I should write out a

1:28:48

list in case, you know, we go there and I get called

1:28:50

up because the stuff I could renew. I would say all that

1:28:52

too. I know. It's like I would have to

1:28:54

get up there and be like, okay, more minutes. Scientology,

1:28:57

like 500 psychics tarot card

1:28:59

readings. I watched Ross getting her candles.

1:29:02

Oh, she even mentioned ayahuasca in

1:29:04

the ceremony. That's right. I'm saying

1:29:06

ceremony. She mentioned ayahuasca. Also,

1:29:08

there was one woman who did renounce

1:29:11

Scientology. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,

1:29:13

she did. Oh man. The

1:29:15

things that get renounced. It is such a only

1:29:17

in LA. She gets the faith healing where someone

1:29:19

renounced Scientology. Rich bouquet of

1:29:21

things that are renounced. So she's

1:29:24

talking about this woman who's just looking out

1:29:26

after her son. So Catherine tells her, well,

1:29:28

this is the spiritual principle. You need to

1:29:30

sow more seed into the kingdom than you've

1:29:32

given to those psychics. And

1:29:34

so the woman runs to her and says,

1:29:37

apostle Catherine, he set free. And it happened

1:29:39

when I pressed pay at the five

1:29:41

ministry website. And then immediately

1:29:43

he was full of peace and joy. The next

1:29:45

day he was a normal kid. What did the

1:29:47

kid have? Just that he was manifesting. So all

1:29:50

we get from the story is that he kept,

1:29:52

I don't know, crying out with demons or something

1:29:54

like that. Yeah. To

1:29:58

verify it to make him a man. So

1:30:00

when I hear this, okay,

1:30:03

but yeah, everyone gets called up to

1:30:05

receive blessings. And so they bring up

1:30:07

physically these envelopes. So there's no hat

1:30:10

passed around. There's no collection bucket, but

1:30:12

you can walk up to this dais,

1:30:14

this wooden thing that's maybe like a

1:30:17

foot or foot and a half tall and put

1:30:19

your money on it. And neither

1:30:21

of us did that. I did. Oh,

1:30:24

did you? Well, I brought it up. I didn't end up

1:30:26

putting it at her feet or whatever. I was holding it

1:30:28

in case she came up to me. I

1:30:30

remember running forward. There

1:30:32

was like an initial round of this and

1:30:34

like I ran forward and I got pictures

1:30:37

of everybody else casting their envelopes on the

1:30:39

stage and it was, you know, dozens. And

1:30:42

then there were people for her that went around

1:30:44

picking them up, putting them in a collection bucket,

1:30:46

but I felt comfortable doing so because there were

1:30:48

so many official photographers

1:30:51

constantly pointing cameras at everything, including this

1:30:53

one woman. She would just rove around

1:30:55

the audience. Sometimes she'd stand up on

1:30:57

a ladder. At one point I see like this extended

1:31:00

lens pointing out of a window above us. Yes, I

1:31:02

was like, Oh my God, it's like the Texas

1:31:04

book suppository. Sure. Yeah,

1:31:07

it's like the murder

1:31:09

of JFK. Yeah, yeah. The

1:31:11

slow object coming out of the window above.

1:31:13

So there was that round, but then she

1:31:16

sort of prays over everybody and maybe picks a

1:31:18

couple individuals to give like a kind of a

1:31:21

personal message to or bring them up. But

1:31:23

then after that, the sermon kind of

1:31:25

ended when everybody gets invited just to

1:31:28

come up and this is

1:31:30

now time for deliverance and healings. And

1:31:32

I have something to heal.

1:31:35

So you hobble up on

1:31:37

your crutches and I stand behind you and

1:31:39

yeah, what happens? Okay, get up

1:31:42

there. I'm on my crutches and

1:31:44

as I walked up, I

1:31:46

made eye contact with her and she

1:31:49

assessed me, you know, like her eyes went

1:31:51

up and down. She was deciding and got

1:31:54

the scan. Yeah, I got the scan head to

1:31:56

foot and back. Something was

1:31:59

not acceptable. Okay, I don't

1:32:01

know but she I you should have

1:32:03

smelled like burning meat. Yeah, maybe yeah She

1:32:06

looked me up and down kind of looked

1:32:08

away. She came back looked away There

1:32:11

was something something she was figuring out. I

1:32:13

was I was only person with crutches. So

1:32:15

I was standing out Okay. Okay, but

1:32:17

she just started calling on someone else and

1:32:20

it was a woman who was sort of

1:32:22

trembling And this

1:32:24

is all very intimate now because before we

1:32:26

were back and the seats and pew They're

1:32:28

not pews and it just rows of these

1:32:31

white folding seats Yeah But now we are

1:32:33

all like pressed upon each other kind of

1:32:35

like knees up against the platform and

1:32:38

you've got People who are almost

1:32:40

in like paroxysms just like shaking back

1:32:42

and forth and like clearly wanting her

1:32:44

attention A lot of people lifting

1:32:46

up their hands that was kind of sporadic all

1:32:48

throughout the service, you know You'd have people lifting

1:32:50

up their hands during worship I should say also

1:32:52

a lot of people shouting out Amen

1:32:55

and hallelujah We had a lady behind

1:32:57

us who was particularly responsive and noisy

1:33:00

In moderate clapping just like people a

1:33:02

certain phrase just resonates with them. Yeah

1:33:06

The one person clapping, okay, there

1:33:08

was a lady in front of us I'm skipping ahead

1:33:11

a little she was at the second service But

1:33:13

I loved how she responded to Catherine because

1:33:15

everything was with the sound of like, alright,

1:33:17

you won me over Oh, so

1:33:19

Catherine would say like and don't just think that

1:33:22

you can be like a normal Christian and then

1:33:24

the woman in front of me would say Like

1:33:35

she was being gradually convinced I frankly

1:33:38

appreciate that because it makes the service

1:33:40

more interesting. Yeah for sure Yeah, and

1:33:42

Catherine herself has kind of

1:33:44

these and I just like a punctuation

1:33:46

phrases that she'll say like something So

1:33:48

absurd is okay bring up your cards

1:33:50

for the email list. Amen. You

1:33:53

like something like that? Yeah, just

1:33:55

like the random little like

1:33:57

hallelujah. Praise God. Praise Jesus.

1:33:59

Thank Thank you, Jesus. Thank

1:34:01

you, Jesus. Just sprinkled throughout through

1:34:03

every word and phrase and paragraph.

1:34:05

Yeah. Amen has become her

1:34:08

exhale word. Exactly. Exactly. Praise

1:34:10

God. Praise God. That's

1:34:13

my third. Oh, you did it. Yeah. Okay.

1:34:16

Exhale word. That's a good one. I

1:34:18

like that. Yeah. Okay. I'm

1:34:21

good now. It was raw certified. Yeah.

1:34:24

Yeah. Now I've got all three.

1:34:26

She was going around. She'd bring people up and oh

1:34:28

my goodness. I'm going to do some addresses because I

1:34:30

wanted to follow up. There was this young boy who

1:34:33

clearly had some sort of mental difficulties and he'd be

1:34:35

kind of staring all around. Catherine

1:34:37

would immediately and totally declare that

1:34:40

all spirits of confusion are gone

1:34:42

and that a sound mind will

1:34:44

be present. She's so

1:34:46

confident. The stuff about

1:34:49

schizophrenia is so disturbing.

1:34:51

Cringe inducing. Yeah. It's

1:34:54

cringy for sure. It's also just

1:34:56

something where you want to intervene

1:34:58

so early. What

1:35:01

we always say about these faith healers is what

1:35:03

they really steal from you is time, hope and

1:35:06

money. You could

1:35:08

be going somewhere that you actually get your

1:35:10

problem dealt with or mitigated. It might

1:35:12

be time sensitive. Yes. Usually is.

1:35:15

Yeah. Schizophrenia feels like the apex

1:35:17

of that to me because it's like you

1:35:19

want to intervene in the first three psychosis

1:35:21

cycles. Usually the first two to three years

1:35:23

after the symptoms start. It's

1:35:26

like it's go time if that's

1:35:28

your diagnosis. Instead of

1:35:30

go time, you're going to this

1:35:32

lady and getting sort of misdirected,

1:35:34

maybe thinking you're fine now. You

1:35:36

get another psychosis cycle. How do

1:35:38

you interpret that now? The

1:35:41

time is ticking there. A

1:35:44

lot of these people, I'd want to follow up with them

1:35:46

but for that boy in particular,

1:35:48

the parents were non-English speaking. I thought,

1:35:50

well, how effectively am I going to

1:35:52

follow up with them later to ask

1:35:54

how he's doing or you'd have others

1:35:56

who are people who are kind of

1:35:59

like rocking themselves. back and forth and think,

1:36:01

oh, geez, I don't know. Like it never felt

1:36:03

like a right moment or like there was one

1:36:05

person I was looking for afterwards and they'd already

1:36:07

left. So it wasn't until the

1:36:10

second service that we attended that I

1:36:12

got someone's name to follow up with later. But

1:36:15

yeah, maybe, maybe we should save for the

1:36:17

next episode, some more specific stories about these

1:36:19

deliverances and how they worked. Sure. But let

1:36:21

me say, yeah, she did not heal my ding dang

1:36:23

toe. She did say she

1:36:26

was healing all injuries at one point.

1:36:28

Yeah, she did like a blanket healing. Yeah.

1:36:30

And that included online. And she'll also do

1:36:32

a thing where she just calls out kind

1:36:35

of like you might do like on TV

1:36:37

as a faith healer where you're saying like,

1:36:39

oh, I see right now

1:36:41

I see somebody suffering from breathing difficulties

1:36:43

that is being healed right now. Yes.

1:36:46

I am seeing this and it's being

1:36:48

healed right now. Yes, exactly. Yeah,

1:36:50

it's like an old faith

1:36:52

healer trick. Yeah. As long as you're talking to

1:36:54

a big enough audience, someone will make this work

1:36:57

for you. Because it sounds so

1:36:59

impressive because you can mentally imagine

1:37:01

someone somewhere hearing that and getting

1:37:03

healed at that moment. You don't

1:37:05

need any kind of confirmation to get the

1:37:07

bonus points for having said it. Yeah, that's

1:37:09

true. And even if you get the

1:37:11

confirmation, it may mean nothing. Yeah.

1:37:14

You know, someone felt better hearing a

1:37:16

sentence. Okay. So so yeah, no, no

1:37:18

specific delivery to Carrie, even though she

1:37:20

was standing right up there pretty close

1:37:22

to the front on the right hand

1:37:24

side with her crutches. So when

1:37:26

it was over, when the healing portion

1:37:29

was over, I hobbled by this one

1:37:32

fella who is, I don't

1:37:34

know, one of her muscle characters, you

1:37:36

know, he catches people, he gives you

1:37:38