0:00

You're listening to a Mama

0:03

Mia podcast. Mama Mia acknowledges

0:05

the traditional owners of land and waters

0:07

that this podcast is recorded on. Whoever

0:11

said orange is the new pink was seriously

0:13

disturbed. Morals for spring. Groundbreaking.

0:16

Oh, my gosh. You have

0:18

to do it. You live for fashion. Hello

0:22

and welcome to Nothing To Wear, the podcast

0:24

that solves fashion problems and levels up your

0:27

wardrobe. I'm Leigh Campbell, and every

0:29

week I talk to an expert who helps

0:31

us work out how to get more out

0:33

of the clothes we already own and tells

0:35

us exactly what is and isn't worth adding

0:37

to our wardrobe. Some

0:39

mornings I wake up and I put on

0:41

an outfit and it's just not right. It

0:43

might be sitting weird. It could be the

0:45

color combo that I haven't got quite right.

0:47

Might be washing me out. And

0:49

it just makes me feel, well, frumpy.

0:52

So on today's episode, we are going

0:54

to figure out if frumpy

0:57

is a state of mind or are

0:59

there actual materials, cuts and colors that

1:01

will always appear frumpy? Joining

1:03

me to help us feel the best in

1:06

our clothes. I have one of my favorite

1:08

guests returning, Nicole Benythe and Heinz. OK,

1:11

Nicole, before we get into de-frumping

1:13

our lives, I want to ask

1:15

you another generic random fashion question.

1:18

What's the trend besides wide

1:20

leg pants that

1:22

you are or were obsessed with? It

1:24

could be at one point and

1:27

maybe you feel nostalgia about it. Maybe you feel yuck.

1:29

Like, is there a trend that just sticks in your

1:31

mind? Because I know you love wide leg pants now.

1:33

Yes. What were you a fan of

1:35

back in the day? Oh, back in the day. Or have

1:37

you always been a wide leg pant and a t-shirt? I've

1:40

always been a suit person, I think. But if

1:42

we want to go back, back, back to pre-children,

1:44

maybe. I used to wear a lot of a

1:46

lyre. Oh, wow. Before I had

1:48

children, I had disposable income. I

1:50

was going to say, who can afford that

1:52

now? Well, he was a relatively unknown, you

1:54

know, because I was on the fashion pulse

1:56

back then. Yes. And that would have been

1:58

because there's a lie. reference in Clueless,

2:01

the movie. Oh, is it? Yes, and she's

2:03

like, I'm wearing a lion. Oh no, you

2:06

don't understand. This is an Aliah. An

2:10

Alwada? He's like a

2:12

totally important designer. And that's how

2:14

I knew Aliah. Oh, okay. Yeah. I knew

2:16

of him like before anyone really, well, obviously

2:18

somebody did because someone was buying it, but

2:21

yeah. Have you kept those items? I kind

2:23

of have, but I thought I'm never going

2:25

to be able to wear them again because

2:27

they're super fitted. It's like a little archive.

2:29

Yeah. I've given them a couple to a

2:31

friend of mine who's got like a retail

2:34

site. Great. In fact, she bought most of

2:36

them. Who cares? Because

2:38

the money's back into buy more. Oh, well, it's

2:40

pretty minimal compared to, but I get it. So

2:42

it's silly sitting in a box. Yeah. True. I'm

2:44

not wearing it. Let someone else love it. Now

2:47

today we're de-frumping our wardrobe, but let's

2:49

start with what frumpy is. I don't

2:51

think frumpy is technically classified as a

2:53

feeling like sad and happy, but it's

2:55

not a nice way to feel. So

2:57

do you ever have clients saying to

2:59

you, I feel frumpy or how can

3:02

you sum up what frumpy means in

3:04

regards to our wardrobe? I don't necessarily

3:06

have clients who say they're frumpy. They

3:08

just aren't happy with the way their wardrobes are

3:10

looking. But you know, it's often wearing things that

3:12

should have been put out to pasture quite a

3:14

long time ago. You know, stuff that they looked

3:16

amazing in in 1993 and they're still

3:20

flogging them and they really should retire them

3:22

because the clothes have changed or they've changed

3:24

or both. Both. Yeah. But you know, there's things

3:26

dead giveaways like a shoulder line is very

3:28

much of an era, right? Or a certain

3:30

length of a jacket or a certain length of

3:32

a skirt or a dress or whatever it is.

3:34

So just those details are no longer fashionable

3:37

and they do make a person look frumpy. For

3:40

me, I mean, I do think it's life stages.

3:42

Mia from Mama Mia often talks about going

3:45

through perimenopause and that made her feel frumpy

3:47

and affected the way she felt about her

3:49

clothes. Postpartum for me was definitely

3:51

a time and I think a lot of new

3:53

moms feel that. Even when my dad passed, I

3:55

went into a fashion slump because I just

3:58

couldn't be bothered. the

4:00

way I felt inside kind of reflected outside. So

4:04

how do we kind of go, right, maybe it's

4:06

my life stage. Mia says, you know, her waist

4:09

is not what it was before. So

4:11

is that when we should maybe defrump our wardrobe and go

4:13

shopping? I think it's just when you get into a bit

4:15

of a style, and I think a lot of women don't

4:17

have the confidence to go shopping as well, like especially if

4:19

they hit a certain point in their life and they lose

4:22

their confidence in, you know, not just what

4:24

they're wearing, but maybe in other aspects of

4:26

their lives and they don't trust themselves to

4:28

go shopping. And they just keep wearing

4:30

the same stuff they've always worn, but they know it's

4:33

not working for them. They're not

4:35

necessarily able to articulate that and they just don't

4:37

feel great. And that's where you help. In a

4:39

previous episode, you said when you take clients shopping

4:41

and they try something on, your phrase is we

4:43

can do better. AKA, whatever they've

4:45

said on isn't working. I wish

4:47

we could all take you shopping, but should we

4:49

take a friend? How do we know we could

4:51

do better? Yeah, maybe taking a friend. I

4:53

mean, it's, I don't know that I trust the

4:56

shopkeeper because they clearly have an agenda. Yeah,

4:58

maybe taking a friend who you trust,

5:01

whose style you might trust, that

5:03

can be honest with you to a degree. But if you

5:05

are in a queue, you don't want, yeah. I

5:08

mean, you know, obviously I'm probably not the cheapest

5:10

stylist in the world, but I think a lot

5:12

of shopping centers do have stylists who work for

5:14

them and I think that it's a free service.

5:16

Yeah, fabulous. I never thought of that. Yeah, I

5:18

think it's worth reaching out. I

5:20

think David Jones do that even. Yeah, I think

5:22

the department stores do. They need to look in

5:24

the mirror and feel good. I think if someone's

5:27

standing there and saying, you look really good, you

5:29

look really good and you're not feeling it, then,

5:31

you know. Nothing puts me off more. No, and

5:33

I think too, you know, sometimes I say, this looks

5:35

great on you and it's a shape they're not used to

5:37

wearing and they really feel uncomfortable. I

5:40

say to them, I think you look great, but if

5:42

you're not feeling it, you're not gonna wear it. So

5:45

take it off. That is so important, isn't it? Because

5:47

it's about pushing yourself out of your comfort zone and

5:50

trying things that are different to what's in your wardrobe

5:52

that's making you feel frumpy. But if you don't feel

5:54

good, you will not put that on in the morning.

5:56

No, that said, I have a few clients who've gone,

5:58

I'm gonna regret. I didn't. keep that thing that you

6:01

said, now they've sold out and I've changed my mind

6:03

about them and whatever. Yeah, that's it. That's why they

6:05

should listen to you. Now we

6:07

went through this wonderful thing called lockdown and

6:09

all that COVID jazz and we work from

6:11

home a lot, we're in tracksuits a lot.

6:13

Do you think we've got to hang over

6:16

from that or do you think that

6:19

we've come out of COVID, like physically out of

6:21

lockdown and embraced fashion or have we just gone,

6:23

oh that's right, we were in our comfies? I

6:27

think a lot of people have really enjoyed being

6:29

comfortable but I also think people want to

6:31

sort of start trying again, you know,

6:34

because we all know it feels

6:36

great to wear something that is a bit

6:38

special and it does sometimes just take

6:40

you out of a bit of a mindset or you

6:42

know, if you're feeling bad about

6:44

your life or how you present or whatever, it's

6:46

sort of nice to make a bit more of

6:48

an effort. I know a lot

6:51

of people do kind of just fake it till you

6:53

make it, like just get dolled up anyway and see

6:55

what happens but it is obviously

6:57

tempting to be comfortable. I know, well the thing

6:59

for me, I was postpartum in COVID lockdown so

7:01

then I came out and I was like, right,

7:04

comfort is now non-negotiable for me because I'm

7:06

a mum and I've been used to it for years

7:08

but I also want to be stylish and that's for

7:10

the first time I realised they can be one in

7:12

the same whereas before I used to be stylish, maybe

7:15

uncomfortable, a heel, fancy and then there

7:17

was comfort which was like slob, leggings,

7:19

whatever and then I've kind of worked

7:21

out and it's hard to fuse the

7:24

two, comfort and style. But I'm

7:26

like, oh it can be done

7:28

and I don't feel frumpy. I mean there are

7:30

certain things that are just super uncomfortable to wear,

7:32

like I don't think I could wear a pencil

7:34

skirt again for example. Even underwire bras, I

7:36

don't do that. I need those. You need the

7:38

lid. You've had five kids, I

7:41

love it. No, I bet it's two. I think

7:43

comfort is so important to many people but that

7:45

can lead you down the frumpy path if you're

7:47

not conscious of choosing the right things

7:49

that are comfortable. Yes, that is true. When

7:52

you're working with your clients, what are some

7:54

of your most frequently asked questions to elevate

7:56

their style in terms of not

7:58

being frumpy? I don't No, they know

8:01

they just say I want to look better. Yeah,

8:03

they don't know what to ask. Yeah, they don't

8:05

always sometimes I

8:07

say I need you know something for I'm traveling

8:09

a lot and I need something I can wear

8:11

the meetings on the plane or whatever And then

8:14

obviously what you're looking for is things don't crease

8:17

Things that are gonna make them not make

8:20

them look powerful but make them feel confident.

8:22

Yes Yeah, because when you look good

8:24

you feel better and then you yeah, yeah, that's

8:26

interesting I guess they come to you not knowing

8:28

what the problem is. Yeah, so they can't articulate

8:30

it Yeah, and that's what you're there for. Yeah, and then some

8:32

of them A

8:35

lot of people actually just starting I mean

8:38

how many years since kovia I can't yeah

8:40

track but we finally got right I've got to

8:42

go and get yeah, I need to get

8:44

new things Yeah, yeah, and when your clients come

8:46

to you for that is it oftentimes for

8:48

work wear? Is it eventing? Is it just redo

8:51

my whole wardrobe? It's a bit of a

8:53

mixture of both most of them think they've got

8:55

their weekend sorted Okay, not necessarily though one

8:57

girl wanted me to take her weekend shopping Like

9:00

she felt like she had a work wardrobe

9:02

sorted or fun. So that was kind of

9:04

fun But usually it's more specific like it's

9:06

a work thing or I've got a function Yeah,

9:09

when it comes to being frumpy oftentimes we hear from women saying

9:11

they want to cover up They might want to cover their

9:13

arms. They might want to cover, you know, the top of

9:15

their legs or their ankles Because

9:17

it's a body part or a body shape that

9:19

makes them feel frumpy. How do you help those

9:21

clients? Well, I always take into account

9:24

what their body shape is and there are certain

9:26

styles that suit certain bodies and I think if

9:28

you can somehow or other move

9:30

the attention away from whatever that area is

9:32

or Cover it for example If

9:34

it's they don't like their upper arms and you

9:37

obviously not looking at sleevers or a print

9:39

that might mask Whatever the

9:41

thing is that they don't like. Okay And do you

9:43

find some people that feel frumpy when it comes to

9:45

body parts of body shapes will

9:47

steer towards over sized? Because

9:49

they think that's hiding them but it might not be

9:51

doing anything for them or do they just not know

9:54

what to do They just don't know what to do.

9:56

Like a lot of the women I work with her

9:58

in the business world and they're amazing and numbers

10:00

and that sort of stuff. And they're kind

10:02

of used to outsourcing, they've got lawyers who handle

10:04

their legal stuff and they've got other people

10:06

that do other things. They're kind of

10:09

okay with outsourcing the other issues. I don't know how

10:11

to handle which is closed to me. Have fun for

10:13

you. And do people always listen to you? No.

10:16

And what happens if they don't? What's

10:18

the diplomatic process there? I mean, it's their money

10:21

and their body, right? Yeah, and I do say

10:23

that. Sometimes I say, don't

10:25

listen to me, but I think blah.

10:28

And again, if they're not feeling it, and

10:30

I'm not going to force the hand, I keep saying,

10:32

this is your life, not mine. So I'm telling you

10:34

from my perspective, what I think works for you. And

10:37

you can either agree or disagree. And if you disagree,

10:39

you're not going to wear it. So don't spend the

10:41

money. So

10:51

there's a bit of a theory,

10:53

we're calling it the front-meter, by

10:55

these four signs, fit, texture, color,

10:57

and color contrast. Interesting.

11:00

So those elements, could you make you feel

11:03

frumpy or changing them could de-frump

11:05

you. Texture, you're

11:07

a huge fabric nerd.

11:09

I mean that in the kindest way.

11:12

So texture of fabrics can make you

11:15

feel frumpy, do you think? I think

11:17

there's a sort of beaucle, tweedy, chanel-esque

11:19

type of jacket. Sometimes I

11:21

feel like that can make women look quite frumpy

11:23

because it's quite bulky. Agreed. Great for a couch,

11:26

not for a jacket. But

11:28

the cropped Chanel-esque boot-clay jacket

11:30

with a pair of cool

11:32

70s kind of jeans and a

11:34

flat ballet something. I've just made a whole outfit

11:37

up in my head. That sounds great. It looks

11:39

great. But if you chuck that jacket on

11:41

with a above the knee pencil skirt, that's going

11:43

to look super dowdy. Yeah. Dowdy is a good

11:45

word for it too, isn't it? Dowdy and frumpy

11:48

are the same? I think so. Yeah. And it

11:50

is a feeling, I think. Like you say,

11:52

it's not particularly the item, it might just be

11:54

that it's no longer for you, it's not for

11:56

your shape. Yeah. It was never your personal

11:58

style. And if you don't feel good, good in it, you're

12:01

not going to project that confidence. Yeah. We

12:03

talked about size a bit before or fit. So

12:06

regardless of size, an

12:08

item needs to fit you well Yeah.

12:11

to feel good in it, right? I think so, yeah.

12:13

Yeah. Is that why you like wide leg

12:15

pants? Cause they're quite easy to wear. They're very easy to

12:18

wear. And you can make your legs look longer if you

12:20

have them a bit longer than the ground. Yes, I

12:22

do wear. You wear a bit of a heel and it just

12:24

stretches you out a bit. I love that. They

12:26

make me feel kind of powerful and glamorous. I

12:28

agree. I wear a heel when

12:30

I'm crippled inside. Okay, you know. And

12:33

then color is an interesting one when it

12:35

comes to frumpy. I mean, take yellow, for

12:38

example, I can't wear canary yellow, but I

12:40

can wear like that chartreuse kind of acidy

12:42

yellow. Yeah, that's a great color. I love

12:44

that color. That's one of my new favorite colors. That looks

12:46

good with your gray top. Well, I wore a beautiful yellow

12:48

one to my 40th a couple of years ago and that

12:51

kind of color. And I loved it. So how

12:53

do people work out what colors might be doing

12:55

them no favors? Is it literally just trying it

12:57

on, looking in the mirror? I think it

13:00

is trying it on. And also people make

13:02

the mistake of sometimes trying colors on without

13:04

makeup. Like some colors they go, oh,

13:06

this color washes me out. And I'm like, well, you haven't

13:08

got any blush on. So, shove some on your face and

13:10

let's see how that color looks on you. It's so true.

13:12

Cause if you're shopping for a fancy event and you go

13:15

with no hair and makeup, I mean, that's fine, but you

13:17

can't get the full picture. No, you really can't. I mean,

13:19

obviously it's hard to try and close with the full face

13:21

of makeup on. Take a change, girl. So

13:23

it's handy. Yes, so you put that around your head and then

13:25

you try it on. Are you drawn to

13:27

color? I love color. I love

13:30

working with color and weird color combinations are

13:32

one of my favorite things I've really enjoyed.

13:34

And here I am in all cream. You are

13:36

in all cream, but that's okay. That's a no brainer.

13:38

Sometimes I was in a bit of a rush this morning. So

13:41

yeah, all one color is easy. Yeah, so

13:43

head to toe or cream or winter. I'm

13:46

going to do all different shades of gray. I'm

13:48

excited for that. Yeah, no, I love gray in

13:50

combination like that with a gray mile or whatever.

13:53

I tend to do more color in winter actually. Do

13:55

you? I'm the opposite. No, I kind

13:58

of like a cashmere sweater in a... I

14:00

got this like fluoro pink cash miss

14:02

sweater I bought and I wear

14:05

that with like a musky pink pant. Ooh

14:07

I did not see that coming that's very

14:09

brave. Yeah I took that a lot. That's

14:11

quite advanced. No wonder you're a stylist. But

14:13

that's the colour and being frumpy. Yes. It's

14:16

individual it comes down to skin tone, hair

14:18

colour. It does. But that's what

14:20

you like right? There are some doggy colours

14:23

though. Which are in your opinion? Look

14:25

it's really hard to wear taupe. Taupe.

14:29

Taupe beige. It's kind of

14:31

got a bit more grain than beige.

14:33

Oh okay like a greige. A greigey.

14:35

Yes. So for example you've

14:37

got an elephant grey tank on which

14:39

looks fabulous and you've got beautiful skin

14:42

and it looks great. But

14:44

can you imagine a 60 year old woman in a

14:46

suit in that colour it could look really dirty. That's

14:49

so true. Yeah you're right with taupe as well I think

14:51

you know depending on your skin tone and there's lots of

14:53

different ethnicities but my type of skin tone in a colour

14:55

like that it almost looks like I'm wearing a band-aid. Yeah.

14:58

It's hard to pull off. Yeah you can look

15:00

like a sort of you know sometimes those

15:02

institutional colours. Yes. Like there's a really great brown

15:04

suit at Cos at the minute and I

15:06

tried it on there was a yellow shirt

15:08

sitting extra I thought oh brown and yellow

15:10

is nice. I tried to look like

15:13

a bus driver. Yeah that's it. From combinations right?

15:15

Yeah I can. But

15:18

there are also certain tones like sometimes

15:20

you know really rich brown is beautiful

15:22

but that sort of washed out brown

15:24

can look dowdy. And I think red's a tricky

15:27

one there can be beautiful reds and there can be

15:29

really cheap looking reds that make them feel dowdy

15:31

or cheap or more me. Yeah

15:35

teal is another one. Teals are really.

15:37

Can you explain teal for me where does that fall in the

15:39

scale of green or green? It's kind of

15:41

in the middle. Okay but it's not aqua. No

15:43

aqua is a great colour. Okay but green's really

15:45

big at the moment in terms but it's kind

15:48

of like. Is it a forest green? Yeah it's

15:50

like a rich forest green. A rich forest green.

15:52

But that teal is not good. Teal is not

15:54

good. And ask me in six months and I

15:56

might be going. Teal is a new colour. Isn't

15:58

it funny? And also for me. I think it

16:00

depends on the fabric as well. Like I like

16:02

a chocolate linen, a white linen, a black linen.

16:04

If I do that, it's under sandy linen. I

16:06

feel very hippie and that's not my vibe. And

16:08

hippies and boho is great, but it depends the

16:10

color with the cut and the linen. So

16:13

when people say to you, I want to look

16:16

better, that's very broad. How do you decide what

16:18

they mean? Because it must be individual for each

16:20

client. Yeah, it is. So usually it's a body

16:22

shape thing. And a lot of girls

16:24

I work with are remembering who they were when they

16:26

were 25 and now they're 45

16:29

or whatever it is. And they just

16:31

know that they might still be wearing those things

16:33

and they don't look the same in them anymore.

16:35

Sometimes it's about changing their mindset, you know, that

16:37

that skirt above the knee is just

16:39

not going to cut it for them. Yeah. Like

16:42

it depends. I sometimes get them to send me photos of things that they're

16:44

in and I can sort of see the problems. So

16:46

I will take them shopping and put them in

16:48

something that I know will be the opposite of

16:51

that. You know, for example, let's just say

16:53

they wear a featured dress

16:55

and it's got this big bold print on it

16:57

or something and it just looks cheap and yucky.

17:00

So I might say let's try

17:02

this dress on that's got a bit more fluidity in

17:04

it. It's a bit softer, the print's a bit less

17:06

garish. And they look in the mirror and

17:09

they go, oh yeah, this looks really good. And

17:11

then they start to feel better and they get a

17:13

bit more confident that you're making the right decisions for

17:15

them. Yeah, it is a confidence thing, isn't it? It's

17:17

emotional. Sometimes they just don't agree with me. Well, that's

17:20

what I was going to say. It sounds like they're

17:22

mostly receptive, but when they don't agree but you feel

17:24

so strongly that the shapes they're working with are currently

17:26

not working in these new shapes. Ah,

17:28

what do you do when you get to a stalemate? Pick

17:31

your battles. Sometimes I'll

17:33

just move on from that thing and

17:35

then I'll just find something that's sort

17:37

of you both sort of agree on.

17:39

Yeah, that's exactly right. But if I

17:41

know the client really well and we

17:43

have a history of where I've made

17:45

decisions and they've loved it, like been

17:47

slightly hesitant, but then they've ended up

17:49

loving it, I'll go remember the blah.

17:51

Yes. Trust me, let's go with this.

17:54

And then they usually go with whatever it is that

17:56

we decide on in that moment. Like I said, pick

17:58

your battles. sometimes I just go, it's

18:01

gonna be better if we just drop this and move

18:03

on. And I get it, not from a fashion perspective,

18:05

but I hate change. So if someone's telling me we're

18:07

changing this, and I'm like, no, but oftentimes once I've

18:09

thought about whatever change it is, give me a minute,

18:11

then I'm like, okay. So they might go back and

18:13

buy that item or order it, or

18:16

take it home and then not return it. Some

18:18

people just need a bit of time. Yeah. So

18:21

I love oversized, you love oversized. As

18:23

we've mentioned before, it's a trend. When

18:26

is oversized chic and when can oversized just

18:28

look frumpy or sloppy or not thought

18:30

through? Oversized as a trend is kind

18:32

of more about upper body, I

18:34

think, or you can get like a wide leg

18:37

pant that's quite oversized. But it's still gotta fit

18:39

your weight. It's gotta fit your weight, like

18:41

you're talking around with no pants on. Yeah, we

18:43

can go big blazers, big shirts. Yeah, you kind

18:45

of go an extended shoulder line, for example, but

18:48

then if you were to wear, let's

18:50

just go back to the sort of

18:52

Chanel-esque, that collarless boot clay jacket. That

18:55

needs to be boxy, but needs to probably

18:57

fit in the shoulder pretty much. If you

18:59

were to do that in the wrong size,

19:02

it's gonna look frumpy. It's just not gonna

19:04

look cool. Okay. Yeah, so I

19:06

think having things be too big is

19:09

different to oversized. Oversized

19:11

is specifically made to be that like, okay,

19:13

like you could wear a men's jacket, for

19:15

example, and you'll get that same look where

19:18

you've got the extended shoulder, but

19:20

then you've got the sleeves too long. You

19:22

have to alter that. My husband's quite a

19:24

petite person. of

19:26

these that can look cool, and then some I

19:29

look like a little girl wearing her dad's blazer.

19:31

So it is, it's a fine line, but it

19:33

can look very effortless and not frumpy, and then

19:35

too oversized just looks like, yeah, let

19:37

me try that on. Yeah, it looks silly. It's

19:40

very effective. Damn,

19:52

honey. How much are these? All

19:57

right, Boohian budget of non-frump. I

19:59

mean, that's a very. broad question. Would

20:01

you like to go first with your

20:03

bougie or your budget? Sure. Well since

20:05

we've been talking about the Chanel jacket, I

20:08

think that can look so

20:10

frumpy. Like some female Chanel people are

20:12

gonna hate me. I

20:15

think people lots of money. Ah yes because they're all

20:17

gonna whip out and buy a Chanel jacket. To this

20:19

day I've never afforded one of those. No, it's not

20:23

really my jam either. Although to be honest I was on

20:25

a plane once so I'm gonna digress here. I was on

20:27

a plane once and I've never got the Chanel thing like

20:29

I just haven't really got it.

20:31

You know you'd look at especially when

20:33

Carl's designing it. It's so frumpy. Wow

20:35

that collection is the definition of frumpy.

20:38

It's so nice to hear that everyone is frumpy.

20:41

But it's not for everyone. No but anyway

20:43

I was on this flight and I got

20:45

upgraded which was so exciting. Anyway there's this

20:47

girl in my business class

20:49

section and she got off the

20:52

plane slightly ahead of me and she was wearing

20:54

one of those boot clay jackets with a pair

20:56

of really cool slouchy worn 70s

20:58

kind of jeans with the little ballet

21:00

flat the Chanel ballet flat and this

21:02

massive big Chanel tote and I thought

21:05

wow you look fabulous. Yeah. You look

21:07

so expensive. There's ways to do it

21:09

right. Yeah she looked just so cool

21:11

and effortless and fabulous. But if you

21:13

put that jacket on with the above

21:15

the knee skirt and thick opaque hosiery

21:17

as on the runway. Oh my

21:19

god that is the very definition of frumpy. So

21:22

it goes to show how you style it. Yeah

21:24

kind of is. Okay great I'm not

21:26

buying a Chanel jacket. My

21:28

spendie isn't too expensive and it is a

21:30

style that I always go to because I've

21:32

mentioned before I get endometriosis and you just

21:34

get a good old big bloat when you

21:37

just weren't planning for it. It's the Trenary

21:39

linen relaxed shirt dress. I think you will

21:41

approve Nicole. It's $129. They're not

21:43

that cheap but it's just a really

21:45

classic shirt dress. Linen so it can

21:48

be a bit crushy. Yeah. Belt so

21:50

if you do want to cinch in your waist

21:52

give yourself some shape or for me if I'm

21:54

really having an endo moment. Pocket. Pocket.

21:57

Yeah. Beautiful collar. Unnegotiable. really

22:00

non-negotiable, really timeless. So, you know, under

22:02

250 bucks. So that's probably

22:04

my spendy. What else have

22:06

you got for me? So I would

22:08

choose a, just a good,

22:10

sorry, wide legs, jeans, sorry,

22:12

sorry, wide legs. Don't be,

22:15

this is your vibe. But

22:17

I think if you had, for example, what

22:19

could be perceived as being a dowdy top,

22:21

just say, pushy bow blouse, which in the

22:23

wrong hands could be quite dowdy. Is that

22:25

high neck kind of, it's almost like there's

22:27

an extra scarf on your shirt but

22:30

you're tight in a bow. I actually

22:32

think a half bow is a bit cooler than a full bow

22:34

now. Oh, okay. It's a nuance of it all. But

22:37

if you did that with like a boot

22:40

play above the knee skirt, hello frumpy.

22:42

No. And it looks like you're going

22:44

to a period drama show. And a court shoe with a

22:46

stumpy heel. Oh, nasty. But

22:49

if you did that shirt with

22:51

a really cool 70s vibe, wasted

22:53

denim, and a great flat

22:56

sandal, not frumpy. Not

22:59

frumpy. And you like 100% cotton jeans. Any

23:02

brands that you recommend, I

23:05

reckon you can get good jeans at any

23:07

price point. Okay, just look out for the

23:09

Lycra Factor. Okay, but you know, like from

23:11

Kmart to Iconic, I've got

23:13

lots of brands. That's a place to look.

23:15

My Body Denim does good denim. They're

23:18

an Australian brand. Even the High Street, the

23:20

Witcheries and whatever, they do good things. Okay.

23:22

Got a good wide legged jeans actually. There's

23:24

a lot of stretch in it though. Which

23:26

you're not a fan of. No, they

23:28

just lose their shape so fast. I'm

23:30

not going to recommend a specific one, but

23:32

my non frumpy savy would be probably from

23:34

Zara. Even Uniqlo does a good blazer when

23:36

we go into winter. An

23:38

oversized black blazer. Because if I'm

23:41

feeling frumpy, I feel

23:43

like that's classic. The oversized kind of is

23:45

forgiving in that whatever I'm feeling, it might

23:47

be about my body. And I prefer it

23:49

to fall just under the bum. I'm a

23:51

short person, but anything cropped in a

23:53

blazer makes me feel frumpy. Unless it's

23:55

a cropped, cropped jacket, which we're saying. That's

23:58

an effort. It's not warm. and we normally

24:00

wear a blazer because they want to be warm.

24:02

I like the look but at the functionality. No,

24:04

I don't get a cropped knit. Yeah. That really,

24:07

or a one-sholded knit. No, I'm not into the

24:09

one-sholded. You wear a knit because you want to

24:11

be warm, don't you? Perfect. But

24:13

just a classic oversized, you know, skim the

24:15

bum, you know, it can roll up the

24:17

sleeves or it's got to have the sleeves, black blazer. That always

24:19

makes me feel less comfy. Okay. And

24:22

pairs with a lot of things. It does. And if

24:24

I'm feeling just yuck about myself, that kind of makes

24:26

me feel put together. Yeah, good. Yeah.

24:30

Nicole, wonderful to chat to you as always. Thank

24:32

you so much for joining us. We'll see you next week. Thank

24:34

you. Thank you. Thank

24:36

you for listening to Nothing to Wear. Don't forget

24:38

to sign up to the Nothing to Wear newsletter.

24:40

It's free and that's where you'll find everything we've

24:42

talked about today. There's a link in the show

24:45

notes. If you love

24:47

this episode, you can listen to Nicole Bernice and

24:49

Heinz share her secrets to look after your clothes.

24:52

It's literally such a game-changing episode. It actually made

24:54

me enjoy laundry and make my clothes look so

24:56

much better. So we've also popped a link in

24:58

the show notes to that one. See

25:01

you next week. This episode was

25:03

produced by Grace Riverate with audio production

25:05

by Tegan Sadler. This

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