0:00

Hello and welcome to

0:02

a bonus episode of

0:04

normal gossip, the show

0:09

where we usually bring you an anonymized gossip from

0:11

the real world. Today, we are not going to

0:13

do that. Today, we are here to do a

0:15

special story that I know nothing about. So can't

0:18

wait to find out where this is going. Here

0:20

with me is Alex, co

0:22

creator of this podcast and our head

0:25

producer Alex, say hello. Hi, and Jay,

0:27

our associate producer is also here. Hello,

0:29

Jay. Hello. Yay. They have brought me

0:32

something and I'm scared. Before

0:34

we get into it, though, I just wanted to remind everyone

0:36

that we are going on a very

0:38

tiny mini tour in March. You can

0:40

get tickets for that at normal gossip

0:42

live com we will be going to

0:44

Atlanta, Durham and theoretically DC but that

0:46

show is sold out. So hello, DC.

0:49

I love you can't wait to see you.

0:51

Many of you may be asking when will

0:54

the real podcast return please my family they're

0:56

starving they need gossip and I do not

0:58

have an exact date for you yet. I'm

1:00

so sorry but we will be back in

1:03

April April I promise one last

1:05

thing before we get into whatever they're about to

1:07

do. Our editor Justin has demanded we put

1:09

a content warning at the top of this

1:11

so Justin take it away. Hey

1:13

there normal gossip listeners. This is Justin.

1:15

Don't be like me and make the

1:17

mistake of listening to this episode while

1:19

trying to eat. Enjoy.

1:22

Thank you, Justin.

1:24

Okay, Alex

1:27

and Jay, you're in charge now. Hello,

1:30

we are so excited to be

1:32

here. We have a really important

1:34

piece of investigative journalism to share

1:36

with you. Oh my okay, Sarah

1:38

Koenig lay it on me. So

1:41

today we are here to

1:44

talk about the poop story.

1:47

Dun dun. Do you remember what

1:49

we mean by that? So after

1:51

season one

1:54

or two, I don't remember which one probably

1:56

after season two, it's all a blur. We

1:58

did a bonus episode. episode

2:00

where people called in their gossip

2:02

and then we responded to it.

2:04

And one of the stories that was

2:06

in that episode was a story that

2:08

we refer to as the poop story.

2:10

Would you like to tell us the

2:13

poop story, Kelsey? Oh my God. Yeah, I

2:15

can do my best. What do I remember about

2:17

the poop story? It's a girl

2:19

who she goes on a date

2:21

with this guy. Maybe they've seen each other a

2:23

couple of times. She goes back to his place.

2:25

She spends the night. He lives in a fancy,

2:27

kind of like high, not super high rise, but

2:29

kind of high rise apartment that

2:31

has like fob door entry and not like

2:33

a real key. And that's

2:36

important because

2:38

he leaves early because he has some business

2:40

job or something and goes to the airport.

2:42

And so she's there all alone. And then

2:44

she takes a massive, absolutely huge poop in

2:46

his toilet, tries to flush it and it

2:49

will not flush. And she's

2:51

like, Oh, this is sad. And

2:53

so instead of doing any normal

2:55

thing, like calling a plumber, calling

2:57

the landlord, calling a

2:59

friend, she uses a Ziploc

3:01

bag to remove the poop from the

3:03

toilet with the intention to take the

3:05

plastic bag with her somewhere? Question mark.

3:09

But then she does not. In fact, she

3:11

leaves it on the counter with a note,

3:13

like saying, like, I had a great time.

3:15

Let's do this again. Oh, that's right. She

3:18

accidentally leaves the poop on the

3:20

counter with the note and

3:22

the door automatically locks behind her so

3:24

she can't get back in. Yeah.

3:26

So the poop is in there with the note.

3:29

And then I don't remember what she

3:32

does in my memory. She just like dies,

3:34

basically. Like she's like, well, this is

3:36

the end for me. Goodbye. And does

3:38

not really make any efforts. And

3:40

I remember saying, pull the fire alarm.

3:45

So that story was horrifying. And

3:47

I remember like, every time I

3:50

read it, I screamed. And

3:52

when we played it for you, I also screamed

3:54

even though I'd heard it like five times at

3:56

that point, because it was so horrifying. Um, the

3:59

thing is, When this episode came

4:01

out, we heard from so

4:03

many people. We got

4:05

Instagram comments, we got DMs, we

4:07

got messages individually, we got emails

4:09

to the normal gossip account, we

4:11

got emails individually. They

4:13

said, this happened to my friend. I've

4:16

heard this story before. I saw this

4:18

on a commercial. This is an urban

4:20

legend. Yes, which is like the true

4:22

range of a response to any gossip,

4:25

right? It is either it happened to

4:27

me or this is all a lie, right?

4:29

Like, that's like a spectrum. And

4:33

it's interesting that the

4:35

emails, there was definitely a wave after

4:37

the episode came out, but like they

4:39

have kept coming over the years. People

4:41

find that episode, they still have these

4:43

strong reactions. They still want to tell

4:46

us that they think they heard a

4:48

version of the poop story on Letterman

4:50

eight years ago. Yeah, I mean, I

4:52

do think it's the kind of story

4:54

that is so iconic and

4:56

so well paced, right? Like, how many of

4:58

our stories do I actually remember? The fact

5:00

that I can like recount and kind of

5:02

beat for beat what happens in this story

5:05

two years after we recorded it, it's kind

5:07

of astounding. It makes sense that if you had

5:09

heard this even once, you would be like, I've

5:11

heard this story before. And in

5:14

the same way that like all viral

5:16

stories happen, a well told story will

5:18

maintain its shape. So if you

5:20

have heard this, you heard it in

5:22

this order. And so you say, well, then my friend told

5:24

it to me and therefore this is a lie.

5:26

Yeah. Yeah. So

5:28

we got really curious about

5:31

this. This is something that we have wanted to do.

5:33

I love it when you do

5:35

hyper six eight. I think that's

5:37

beautiful. Ever since we got started getting

5:39

these emails, we were like, what if we

5:42

did journalism? What if

5:44

we did journalism for gossip

5:47

as trained journalists? What is phone

5:49

calls? Exactly.

5:53

So Jay And I

5:55

have spent the last month or so creating what

5:57

is essentially. The

6:00

giant bulletin board covered in red strength

6:02

the I: you're like that it's always

6:04

sunny in Philadelphia. I'm of Charlie like

6:07

pointy yeah we are both as certainly.

6:11

As in the on the board. Is as photos of poop.

6:15

Or I hope was to track down at

6:18

the original protagonist of the story with and

6:20

I'm gonna give you a spoiler right now,

6:22

We did not do that. It's crazy. how

6:24

would you don't. Have the funding of cereal

6:26

you check out and says that it's a

6:29

dollar of an original story about yeah, go

6:31

ahead, But but we did talk to

6:33

several people and. This. Story

6:35

spans several decades. So

6:37

many different countries, two

6:40

continents and so many

6:42

people have beautiful. Normal.

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vary. Based on how you play. First

7:38

person you're going to hear from

7:40

his Lizzie. Okay, Lizzie as the

7:42

person who originally center. The Poop

7:45

story. Oh great. Good storyteller perversion.

7:47

Happened around twenty nineteen and a

7:49

northeastern city and the U S.

7:53

Wow. i'm so glad that we happy

7:55

here as he is you you are as a

7:57

source is it all to remember the first time

8:00

you heard it? So I

8:02

was trying to think about this. I

8:04

remember who told me but what's funny

8:06

is I've retold the story so many

8:08

times because I find it

8:10

so entertaining and felt like I could

8:12

share because I'm a couple of degrees

8:14

removed from who I understood was

8:16

the main character. So I can't visually place

8:18

where I was the first time that I

8:20

heard it. I was in my current city

8:22

and I'm gonna guess

8:25

this was probably 2019 when

8:27

I heard it. I

8:29

don't know if I even thought about when it

8:31

happened. Who do you believe

8:33

it happened to? So I understand

8:38

the main character of the story to

8:41

be not my friend Charlotte but

8:44

her friend's friend. Someone

8:47

who I don't know but I should

8:49

be able to believe

8:53

is real if that makes any sense.

8:56

Yeah it's far enough away that you're safe

8:58

but close enough that like you can trust

9:01

that it's real. Did

9:03

you have any idea that your story

9:05

that you sent in had sparked this

9:08

uproar? So it's actually I

9:10

think about it all the time. I remember

9:13

the first time after the episode aired and

9:18

I saw people in the comments saying like

9:20

this isn't true or whatever and I was

9:22

so nervous that oh my gosh you

9:24

know people probably think that I'm lying. And

9:27

not that you could even identify that it was me

9:30

but I was just so guilty like oh

9:32

I'm out here telling a lie and I

9:34

don't even know it's a lie and everyone's

9:37

upset. I just felt really nervous about it

9:39

I don't know mostly because I didn't intend

9:41

to give you bad information or a bad

9:43

story. Well I mean the problem is he

9:45

gave us a great story. That is a

9:47

good way to look at it. Okay

9:50

so I have a few thoughts. So

9:53

I want to start with the last thing

9:55

she said actually which is this like fear

9:57

upon seeing people say like this

9:59

isn't true. this made up that like

10:01

maybe you did lie. Right. And I

10:03

just want to push back on that

10:05

for one second because like to lie

10:08

requires intent, right in the same way

10:10

that like, if you want to

10:12

win a libel case, you have to prove

10:14

that someone intended to tell a dishonesty

10:16

or a lie against you. I have

10:19

a kind of fascination with the mindset

10:21

that like, we should be concerned with

10:23

exactly what the right story is here,

10:26

right? And she says, right, she heard the story

10:28

in 2019. Four's hand is what she

10:32

says, which means already you should be taking

10:34

this with like a Morton's box of salt,

10:36

right? Like that is three

10:38

years after she claims it happened from

10:41

four different people. So that

10:43

is like, you should be skeptical of that

10:45

story. And I'm sure we're going to talk

10:47

about urban legends at some point in this

10:49

conversation. But I think part of the reason

10:52

a story like this in particular

10:54

spreads is one, it's

10:56

crazy to it's really fun. But

10:58

three, it's kind of like a

11:00

warning shot. Yes, right. Like there

11:02

is an aspect to it that

11:04

is like, remain vigilant,

11:06

never let your guard down. It's

11:09

a cautionary tale. It's a cautionary

11:11

tale. Exactly. And they're kind of

11:13

creating a cautionary tale as like a moralism

11:15

in the same way that like an Aesop's fable

11:17

would function. Um, okay,

11:19

so our next person we

11:21

talked to is somebody named Tori and

11:24

actually texted us during one of

11:26

our live shows. Wow, Tori, hello.

11:29

For people who haven't been to

11:31

our live shows, we have a

11:34

feature where we invite people to

11:36

text us their secrets. Live in

11:38

the room. That's normal

11:41

gossip live.com. And

11:45

Tori texted us pretty

11:48

much verbatim the poop story.

11:50

And I texted her

11:52

from on stage, I was like, Oh

11:55

my god, I'm gonna follow

11:57

up with you. I have questions to

11:59

ask. So we

12:01

finally talked to her. She

12:03

lives on the East Coast in a city,

12:05

and she says that she heard the story

12:07

around 2015 and

12:10

in the Chicago area. Okay,

12:13

so this is already interesting because 2015 is

12:16

before Lizzie says she heard the story.

12:18

Yeah. So we have someone reporting on the

12:20

story from before the story in theory existed.

12:24

I guess to start off, could you just tell me

12:26

the version of the story that you know? Yes. So

12:28

I mentioned her, I think in my

12:31

text, Mandy, was a senior in college

12:33

and her biggest crush in the world,

12:35

Greg, they went to school together and

12:39

she had always been into him and nothing

12:41

ever happened when I think it

12:43

was like the last week of school. They

12:45

finally hit it off and

12:47

go home together one night and it's an amazing

12:50

night. So he leaves to go to class. And

12:53

apparently she has had to

12:56

go to the bathroom

12:58

for like 20 minutes and she's like, okay, he's

13:00

gone and now's my chance. And

13:02

she goes to flush the toilet and it

13:05

is not being flushed. What do I do?

13:07

Like, so she grabs the bag, she

13:09

grabs her business. And

13:11

she's like, I can't throw this away

13:14

here either. So she's like, I

13:16

also can't have a poo

13:18

in a bag in my hands in the

13:20

hallway of this apartment. So she

13:23

leaves to go scope out a quick, quick

13:26

path to the trash can. She

13:28

finds it. She's like, this will be great. No one will

13:30

detect me. I'll go in and out. So

13:33

she goes back to the apartment, but it

13:35

was an automatic locking door.

13:38

So the door is locked. The

13:41

poo is in the bag, like in the apartment

13:43

on the counter, I don't know, somewhere not

13:46

hidden. And

13:49

she never spoke to or texted

13:51

or talked to Greg ever

13:53

again. And they graduated and it

13:56

has joined the legions of

13:58

dating folklore. I

14:02

like, I know how this story

14:04

ends and I was still like,

14:06

oh God, no. You

14:08

try and like debunk her

14:10

thinking throughout, but it

14:13

checks out at every stage like, yeah, I

14:15

would do that also. Yes, I would do

14:17

that also. So, yeah,

14:20

high stress, high, high anxiety.

14:24

My roommate and good friend Jill, who I

14:26

asked if I could say her name, and

14:29

she said, I encourage it actually. She

14:31

told me this probably our senior year

14:33

of college. A

14:35

friend had told her and she told me. Does

14:38

Jill remember where she got the story from? So,

14:41

I asked her knowing that this was going

14:43

to happen and she was like, no paper

14:45

trail, like I don't remember who told me.

14:49

She has no idea who told her. She's

14:51

trying to remember, but so far, no

14:53

luck. How many times

14:56

do you think you've told this story? I

14:58

mean, at least a handful when I first

15:00

heard it, I'm sure. But

15:04

then it didn't come to

15:06

my brain for a while until I

15:08

was sitting and watching the

15:10

show and the text, like text your gossip story.

15:12

And I was racking my brain and then

15:15

poop in a bag came to my brain and I

15:17

was like, yes, of

15:19

course this is the one I'm going to tell

15:22

you guys about. Oh man. I

15:25

want you to know that when I got

15:27

that text, I was on stage and I

15:29

was like, oh my God, somebody sent a

15:31

poop bag story. Oh my God. Another

15:34

one. Yeah. So exciting. I

15:37

hadn't heard that episode, so I went and

15:39

I was listening and I was like, okay,

15:41

so the college part wasn't

15:43

there and this wasn't there, but the

15:45

core of the story is exactly the

15:48

same. And it's like, where did this

15:50

come from? What is the true?

15:53

Yes. That's what we're

15:55

trying to get to the bottom of. I'm so excited

15:57

to see the journey and see if there is a.

16:00

of gold at the end of this

16:02

proverbial rainbow. Okay, so it's younger in

16:05

this version, which does actually

16:10

make more sense to me. It makes

16:12

more sense to me that you would make this choice as

16:15

a college kid in general. Right?

16:17

Scared of toilets, just panicking. Scared

16:19

of people helping you, scared of... Yeah,

16:21

also student housing tends to be automatic

16:24

locks. Yeah, exactly. Like all of that

16:26

makes a little more sense to me.

16:28

One thing that I'm

16:31

already finding interesting here is that

16:34

at some point we hit

16:36

a person who cannot remember where they got

16:38

it from. Yeah. And I think that that's

16:42

really interesting for like several

16:44

reasons. The first is that

16:47

a story that permeates far enough, you

16:49

will hear from enough people that you

16:51

will no longer remember who gave it

16:53

to you. And it's not really important

16:55

exactly who told it the first time, right?

16:58

Like all you need is one

17:00

girl to have pooped and put it in

17:02

a bag for this story to be quote

17:04

unquote true. And like there are six billion

17:07

people that exist, right? Like it seems completely

17:09

possible that this has happened at least once,

17:11

if not more than once. Yeah,

17:14

the thing that makes the story work is

17:16

not the identity of the girl. It doesn't

17:18

matter who she is. She could be anybody.

17:20

She could be anywhere. It's like

17:23

the drama of what happens in the story. Yeah.

17:26

Like all we have to do is reframe the question

17:28

a little bit. Like, is it

17:30

true that when you're dating

17:32

somebody new and it's really promising, it

17:34

would be terrible if they

17:36

saw your poop. Yeah. That

17:38

would be terrible. That's a

17:40

nightmare. Somebody

17:43

contacted us within update on the poop

17:45

story. They were like, I know more.

17:47

Okay. And this was months

17:50

after the episode came out. And

17:52

unfortunately we were not able to track this person

17:54

down to ask them more questions. So this is

17:56

all we've got. 15 years

17:59

ago. I went to

18:01

a World Toilet Day event. That's a

18:03

real day. Look it up and Some

18:06

friends had organized an event around

18:09

World Toilet Day as a fundraiser.

18:11

I'm in my mid-20s I've got nothing better to do

18:13

but it was great and one of

18:16

the most memorable moments was the

18:18

storytelling part of that evening And

18:21

it was this story. I remember

18:23

it and it haunts me to

18:25

this day So I'm so excited

18:27

to give you some more information on that two

18:29

details that were missing from the first storyteller

18:32

was that these

18:35

silly asses went on One

18:38

of those dinner dates that has ten

18:40

courses in the meal Most

18:42

of us know not to do that why

18:45

because you have a huge shit the next

18:47

day as our protagonist found out Another

18:50

detail that's missing is it wasn't actually a

18:52

ziploc bag. It was one of those

18:54

single use Shopping bags

18:56

a plastic kind So

18:58

it was much bigger to work with and she could

19:00

kind of put her hand in it inside

19:03

out reach in Grab the poop

19:05

tie it up It's

19:07

more efficient sure but it's a

19:09

more disgusting image because of just kind

19:11

of the low fineness of the plastic

19:13

bag But maybe not as

19:15

bad because it's not clear like a ziploc. Anyway,

19:18

here's the update couple years later She's

19:21

moved past her shame. She did not Indeed

19:25

hear from this date ever again She's

19:28

seeing a new guy things are going really well.

19:30

They've been dating for a couple of months and

19:34

They get into this conversation one night

19:36

about what's the worst most embarrassing thing

19:38

that's ever happened to you on a date She

19:41

tells this story He interrupts

19:43

her near the very end and says oh

19:46

my god. That was you That

19:48

was my roommate. You're

19:50

amazing and I'm happy to

19:52

report they got married Anyway, enjoy

20:00

What the fuck? Right?

20:02

I have questions. Okay.

20:05

Wow. So I'm thinking

20:07

about a piece of gossip

20:10

that has been circulating recently in

20:12

the world that

20:15

I heard truly

20:18

secondhand. Like my friend knows

20:20

someone that this happened to. And

20:23

so I have watched this piece of

20:25

gossip travel far, far, far

20:27

and wide. And I have watched

20:29

it iterate. And one

20:31

of the things that's very interesting about

20:33

watching a piece of gossip that you

20:36

like have an original voice memo

20:38

from the event of iterate

20:40

is that you notice which details

20:42

get added and which ones stick.

20:46

So like what is it about

20:48

something that makes it an important

20:50

detail, right? So like this person starts

20:52

to stop by saying like two

20:54

important details. One, it was a 10

20:56

course dinner. Two, it was

20:59

a single use grocery bag, which is

21:01

like hysterical because neither of those details

21:03

changes the plot of the story out

21:05

at home. There

21:07

is nothing in those details that would make you be

21:10

like, oh, this must be the right story. Right.

21:12

Like it's to the

21:14

listeners that is an important distinction.

21:16

Like they're saying it's important that

21:18

it's in a non-transparent bag because

21:20

that is a weirder message and

21:22

it's also grosser. And

21:25

like it would stink more. Right. And you

21:27

would have to open it. Right. There's like

21:29

levels to the single use grocery bag that

21:31

makes it a more interesting prop in the

21:33

story. So that's all very fascinating. And I

21:35

love that. The

21:38

update sounds not

21:41

to be like true or false after I just went on

21:43

a rant about true or false. The update sounds

21:45

fake as shit to me. And

21:47

like it's a beautiful bow

21:50

to try on a story. But

21:52

like often things that

21:54

happen in the real world sound fake

21:57

because like truly the

21:59

truth is stranger than fake. fiction, like the emails

22:01

we get are weirder than any novel

22:04

I've ever read. They're all

22:06

so strange. People are so weird.

22:09

And I don't know, I find

22:11

that really fascinating that like in this

22:13

version of the story, you get

22:16

a happy ending. And then the

22:18

other versions of the story you don't. Yeah,

22:20

I it makes me wonder about you know,

22:22

the context of World Toilet Day knows it

22:25

like, we don't want to

22:27

leave people feeling horrified. We want to

22:29

leave them feeling like there's hope. Right.

22:31

We don't want people to believe that

22:33

toilets are their enemy. We want to

22:35

believe that toilets can bring them true

22:37

love. Yeah. Oh my god. Learn more

22:39

about toilets. It's actually

22:42

a plot from big toilet all along.

22:45

It was actually just made up by

22:47

like Kohler. Oh my god. Next, you'll be

22:49

hearing from Jen. Okay, Jen was one of the people

22:51

who wrote to

22:59

us letting us know

23:01

very kindly that this was an

23:03

urban legend. And

23:05

as I was emailing more with Jen, it

23:08

turns out that Jen knows this because

23:10

she has her own long history with

23:13

this story. Oh, it sounds

23:15

like Jen first heard this in the

23:18

early 2000s in England. Okay,

23:21

great. Do

23:23

you happen to remember like when you first

23:26

heard this story? I actually

23:28

do. Yes. So I have an

23:31

older cousin, like she's probably about like

23:33

six or seven years older than me. My

23:35

family is very good at like storytelling. It's

23:37

like, there's always like a couple of

23:39

people in the family who were like

23:41

the ones will hold court. Not that

23:43

I'm myself like that, obviously. But she's

23:46

definitely one of the people and I

23:48

remember being probably about

23:50

like, like early teens,

23:52

I reckon, or maybe like yes,

23:54

well, or something and her telling

23:56

this story that it happened to

23:58

a like friend, I

24:01

think like friend of a school friend

24:03

was her, was how she'd heard of

24:05

it and very much like

24:07

it was true. So that was probably, like

24:09

18 years ago I reckon

24:14

I first heard it around around then. I

24:17

think when I went to uni and you're

24:20

all sat around having free drinks and

24:23

stuff before going out and like all

24:25

telling these like wild stories and then

24:28

I'm pretty sure it

24:30

would have been around then. And

24:32

then someone else would be like,

24:34

that's an urban legend and I

24:37

was like, oh, that's me.

24:39

I'm from a small town going to the big

24:41

city where everyone knows that my stories are trash.

24:45

Inversions that you've heard over the years,

24:48

have you ever noticed any differences? Do people put

24:50

their own spins on it? The

24:52

straightforward one is just she leaves the poop

24:54

on the side and then leaves. Like, where

24:56

is it good to have a little bit

24:58

more pizzazz to it? So the

25:00

variations in whether the

25:03

poop would last in a box or

25:05

back. It's like a

25:07

Tupperware version. I

25:10

think I heard the Tupperware version.

25:12

Yeah, like a lunchbox. Yes,

25:15

but there's definitely a lunchbox version.

25:18

Yes, there is. That means that

25:20

somewhere along the line somebody has decided

25:22

that a lunchbox is funnier or that

25:24

a bag is funnier, which absolutely

25:27

hats off to them because it's arguable

25:29

which one is better. I

25:32

have a lot of respect actually for, and I think my

25:34

cousins like this, for somebody who will hear a story like

25:36

that, know that it's probably an urban

25:38

legend or know that it's probably not true and still

25:40

tell it anyway. I absolutely

25:43

love that. I'm like, that's, yeah, because what a

25:45

delight that gave me until I realised that everyone

25:47

has heard that story on Reddit.

25:49

Reddit is the blame for this. I think before Reddit,

25:51

we could all go around and pretend that

25:53

it actually was our cousin's schoolmates

25:56

friend. I hope there is somebody

25:58

out there who is like... This happened

26:00

to me, to their best friend. I

26:02

hope that this was the out there

26:04

that's just whole cloth

26:06

feeling as if they did it. That's

26:08

the dream. That's the

26:11

dream. You can find

26:13

the Earth person. You can find the original. He was

26:15

like, yeah, I just lied to my friends that I

26:17

did a shit on someone's canvas. I was like, oh

26:19

my God. Oh my God. First

26:22

off, I do want to say that I know that you

26:25

warned me up top that we don't have

26:27

all the answers here, right? That we have

26:29

not found the Earth person. But

26:33

as someone raised

26:36

and bred a blogger, I

26:39

believe in the iterative process of

26:41

journalism, if you are the person

26:44

this happened to, it's normalgossipatdefector.com. If

26:46

you can get us closer, we

26:49

will take that. And please call

26:52

2679Gossip. Let

26:54

us know. Because I think that the

26:56

desire is to talk to her, right? That

26:59

is always going to be everyone's desire, is

27:01

to hear it from her. So if you

27:03

can get us there, help us. Thank you.

27:08

Couple things. Things can happen

27:10

in multiple countries. That's not illegal. People

27:12

can make the same stupid mistake in

27:14

England and in America. So

27:17

that's not an issue. But I also think

27:19

that her going to uni and telling this

27:21

story and being told it's an urban legend

27:24

is an interesting point here. Because

27:27

just because you have heard a story

27:30

doesn't mean it's not true. Just

27:33

because a gossip is widespread doesn't mean it

27:35

isn't real in the same way that we

27:37

tell a story on this podcast every single

27:40

week. And half a million people hear it.

27:42

So now you've all heard that story. But

27:44

that doesn't mean it's an urban legend. This

27:47

is where that line exactly is a

27:49

question that I'm sure we'll come back to. But

27:52

if you're telling this story at

27:54

uni at some pub, that

27:57

means you're telling this story to like 20. people

28:00

you barely know who are

28:03

then going to go tell that

28:05

story to 20 more people they

28:07

barely know. So it's like the

28:09

tree of who knows this story

28:11

becomes infinitely wider in every single

28:13

one of those tellings. And

28:15

so like, yeah, if you told this story to

28:17

someone at uni, and they're from America, and they come

28:19

back and tell it, their friends

28:21

from high school are going to be like, I'm not

28:24

saying uni. I'm not doing

28:26

that. I'm saying college, right? And now it's

28:28

an American story, right? Like that, that's all

28:30

it takes is like that one. And like

28:33

the difference between this, and like

28:35

one of those old school chain

28:37

letters, you know, or email forwards is

28:39

just that this is good. Yeah,

28:41

yeah, right. There's something to like,

28:44

it doesn't survive unless it's good. Yeah.

28:46

So the last person we talked to is

28:49

somebody named Adrian Park. Okay, we

28:51

did a lot of research into

28:54

the story. And Jay actually found

28:56

a Snopes article about the story,

28:58

which quick explainer

29:01

for the youths who maybe don't know

29:03

about Snopes. Snopes is

29:05

a like fact checking debunking

29:07

site that like debunks myths.

29:11

And so this

29:13

page referenced a

29:15

short film from 2007, as the potential source

29:17

of this

29:20

story. So the film is

29:23

called Sherlock. S-U-R-E

29:26

Sherlock. Okay,

29:28

a true poo story. Incredible.

29:31

Great tagline. The

29:33

film opens with the words based

29:35

on a true story. Okay. So

29:37

we tracked

29:40

down Adrian, who is the director of the

29:42

film. And this is what he had

29:44

to say. Yeah,

29:46

so it all started with Sean Hazel,

29:48

who's listed as the producer in it.

29:51

He was working in advertising. I was

29:53

working in the film business and Sean

29:56

wanted to create this

29:59

website. called Adbakery. It was

30:01

basically a platform for creatives,

30:04

writers, directors, cinematographers, editors to have a

30:06

platform to post their stuff for ad

30:08

agencies to sort of see what they

30:10

could do. So Sean

30:12

wanted to make something that was

30:15

relatable, shareable, and funny. And

30:18

he told me this story. Sean and I

30:20

were old friends, we went to high school

30:22

and university together. And he told this story

30:24

in the context of it happening to a

30:26

mutual friend of ours. So it

30:29

was sort of made this film

30:31

to launch this advertising website as

30:33

a comedy film. You know, we thought

30:35

we'd get maybe, if we were lucky, a thousand people would

30:37

see it eventually. And I

30:40

think in a day or two, we

30:42

had a thousand people and it just

30:44

grew exponentially. It was a

30:46

viral hit. The original post had

30:48

over 8 million views, and we

30:50

actually ended up selling it to

30:52

American Standard Toilet Company. And for

30:54

them, we got another

30:57

several million views. So it has over 10 million

30:59

views. We ended up winning a Canadian

31:01

Comedy Award for it. Very proud to

31:03

have an award that has the word poo in

31:05

it etched in

31:08

glass. So this version of the

31:10

story happened in the early 2000s in Canada. So

31:14

we are now in our third country. And

31:19

the thing is, Adrian told

31:21

us that he actually had a

31:24

run-in with a

31:27

similar story at that time.

31:31

So I'm going to play the second clip. We

31:34

sort of had our movie online for

31:37

several months, maybe a year, less than a

31:39

year. And again, we'd had a

31:41

great response, a viral sort of hit. And we

31:43

got to a certain point where a lot of

31:46

people were stealing it and reposting it. And we

31:48

became very concerned about, you know, stop stealing

31:50

our film. And we were trying to track people down and

31:52

all that kind of thing. And

31:54

another film came

31:56

online, I believe, that was

31:58

basically the exact same thing. opened based

32:00

on a true story. There were

32:03

some like even shots that were very similar. And

32:06

we were like, what the heck? These people have just

32:08

remade our film. And that so we, you know, we

32:10

tracked them down. We got in touch with the filmmakers

32:14

and we had this argumentative

32:16

conversation back and forth where we

32:19

accused them of stealing our film and they accused

32:21

us of stealing your film and

32:23

cooler heads prevailed. And as we sort of talked

32:25

about it, I think it was, we

32:28

discovered the fact that they had made, they were

32:30

making the film at basically the same time. It

32:32

was premiered at a festival, maybe around the same

32:34

time that we went online or something like that.

32:36

And it would have been impossible for either of

32:38

us to have seen each other's

32:40

films. And we realized that we just

32:42

had, we'd heard the story of

32:45

a story, like a friend of a friend had

32:47

told this story. And it was, so it was,

32:49

it was an urban legend when

32:52

it was created. And so I

32:54

think we went back to Sean

32:56

possibly went back to the person he'd heard the story

32:58

from. We thought it was the story of a mutual

33:00

friend. And she was like, oh no, it's a friend

33:02

of a friend. And it's, it didn't

33:05

happen to me. It was someone else. And it was,

33:07

it became very foggy. And we're like, oh, we realized

33:09

that we didn't even realize that we'd made a story

33:12

of an urban legend. You know, we thought it was real

33:14

and it wasn't. And I think that's

33:16

happened several times. If you guys ever track down

33:19

one person who says, yes, this happened

33:21

to me, please tell me. I'd love

33:23

to find out. Same. Same.

33:26

Truly same. You

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rocketmoney.com slash gossip. Two

37:47

things that are really interesting about urban legends

37:50

is that when we tell urban legends

37:52

like people who study urban legends have

37:54

found that it is always from a

37:56

friend of a friend. You never

37:58

say like I Got this. seventeenth

38:01

hand to from a newspaper in

38:03

San Antonio Gray it is. At

38:05

this happen to a friend to friend

38:07

and it it's always local so it's

38:09

not a library. Somewhere is sinking under

38:12

the weight of the books in. it

38:14

is our library. Always.

38:16

So like that is how

38:18

in urban legend functions is

38:20

Pilates proximity? Fight in. Doing

38:23

this story with. More.

38:25

Veracity by saying it came from nearby and

38:28

it came from someone close to us. Ray

38:30

and like. That allows everyone in the

38:32

vicinity to be like we suspend all

38:34

judgment which is like a fascinating thing

38:36

that we see happen here, right? Like

38:39

he said, oh, it happened to your

38:41

mutual friend. And then they go

38:43

back to that girl if she said it

38:45

known and and are now and happened to

38:47

a friend of a friend of mine and

38:49

it's like okay will do now have if

38:51

we asked that person where did they get

38:53

it makes you think we're of nowhere. Yeah

38:55

I also have a class in here before

38:57

we go any further which is how would

38:59

you define an urban legend. Who.

39:02

I would just fine and urban

39:04

legend as a story that is

39:06

told. In many places.

39:09

As this it is preferable to

39:11

that place. In which the

39:14

details at the same and researchers might

39:16

lick people who said he urban legends

39:18

full time which there are a lot

39:20

of folklorist in the United States especially.

39:23

With. Say that it's a spectrum great.

39:26

The line between what gossip is

39:28

and what is an urban legend

39:30

to success rate is just a

39:32

gradients on your way to urban

39:34

legend right? Like once a story

39:36

has been told us. It.

39:38

Is an urban legend So like in some

39:40

ways this is. Low. right?

39:43

The caught a fine of gossip makes it an

39:45

urban legend. I think an urban legend has something

39:47

to do with how many people. Are talking

39:49

about it in general. It's

39:52

ubiquitous and ally. Is

39:55

ubiquitous and. There's.

39:58

a difference in an urban legend and legend,

40:00

right? Like a legend,

40:02

like fucking the Odyssey

40:05

is something that we all

40:07

agree happened to somewhere else at some other

40:09

time. Right? And we're like,

40:11

maybe that's fiction and urban legend, you

40:13

believe it's true initially, which

40:16

is part of what's important. Yeah, this is, this

40:18

is a question that I had

40:21

as we talk to more and more people

40:23

was like, how does

40:25

the intent piece of it work?

40:28

Like it started to feel to me like

40:30

there was a little curse on this story.

40:32

Like when you hear it, you're fated to

40:34

retell it, you think it's amazing. Like, wow,

40:36

this is perfect. Yeah. I know that that

40:38

happened to me. It happened to us. Yeah.

40:40

It happened to us on the podcast. And

40:42

then eventually you learn this is a little

40:44

bit broader than that, or this is an

40:47

urban legend. And so I was wondering, like,

40:49

are all urban legends kind of cursed

40:52

in that way, where you

40:55

understand it to be personal at first. And

40:57

when you tell it, you're not necessarily thinking

40:59

that you're telling a tale or like

41:01

putting on a show. Yeah, I think it's I

41:03

would push back on that a little bit,

41:06

right? Like, I think you do understand that you're

41:08

putting on a show. Like, I think if you

41:10

tell a story like this at a

41:12

bar, you know that you're like giving

41:14

it the razzled apple, right? You're adding

41:16

that door click, you're making it a

41:18

plastic bag instead of a Tupperware, maybe

41:20

not intentionally. But you're

41:22

doing that because you're on

41:25

the stage of storytelling, right? And

41:27

that is what people do. Like we

41:29

have, there are studies that show that

41:31

like storytellers who went from town to

41:33

town in ancient, you

41:36

know, ancient Mesopotamia, or ancient

41:39

Greece, would change their story

41:41

every single time. But when you

41:43

asked them what they had told, they

41:45

said it was always the same. This

41:47

is literally how we talk about the

41:49

live shows. Yeah. We say

41:51

we tell the same story every time

41:54

and in theory we do, but it's

41:56

different every single time. Yeah, exactly. But

41:58

the thing is before If

42:00

you are an oral storyteller, you

42:03

are not writing your story down

42:05

and then reading from a script You are telling

42:07

it based on what you remember and our memories

42:09

are faulty. So it's not necessarily

42:11

true that like people

42:13

are intentionally deceiving you by

42:15

telling this story and I think that that

42:17

is kind of What I box out

42:20

in the initial response to this story with people

42:22

being like you lied like you Intentionally told

42:24

us an urban legend does a tale and I'm

42:26

like no I mean, it's my fault that

42:28

I bought this story like hook, light and

42:30

sinker a bumpy bold it But I didn't

42:32

intentionally we didn't intentionally include

42:34

it in the podcast because we thought we

42:36

could pull a ruse over people Right. Like

42:38

we included it because we were like this

42:41

is not Yeah,

42:43

it was so funny. It was one of my first

42:45

experiences Working on

42:47

the show. I had just been hired as a Assistant

42:51

producer and I was helping find you

42:54

know the Like sort through

42:56

the submissions for that episode and I remember after

42:58

it came out and we started to see all

43:00

the comments like I Felt so

43:03

bad. I thought I was supposed to be more

43:05

savvy Like I wish I had recognized this like

43:07

I wanted to make a good impression at this

43:09

job But now Alex and Kelsey are you gonna

43:11

think that I don't know anything Okay,

43:13

but like the licked hand is a perfect

43:16

urban legend that like goes

43:18

into this category I don't know the

43:20

story. Oh She okay,

43:22

let me find Okay,

43:25

so the licked hand is a horror story

43:28

it is also called The

43:31

doggy lick or humans can lick too. Yeah,

43:34

I'm ending on where you were where

43:36

you hear it It is a very

43:38

very common slumber

43:40

party horror story because it is

43:42

about like a young girl

43:45

who is at home with her dog and she

43:47

hears on the radio and she's

43:50

maybe blind in the story and she

43:52

hears on the radio that like there's

43:54

a killer on the loose and The

43:57

dog is like licking her hand to comfort her and then

43:59

by the end of the story she realizes it's not

44:01

a dog, right? Like, oh my

44:03

god. Yeah. But this is

44:05

like a very common urban

44:08

legend. I think it was

44:10

told, hold on one second.

44:13

Humans can lick it. It's

44:16

been found in print editions as early

44:18

as the 1980s. But like I heard

44:20

it when I was a kid growing

44:22

up and thought it happened in Texas.

44:25

Because like somebody told it at our

44:27

slumber party. I'm pretty sure it's told on

44:30

an episode of the L word also. Wow.

44:32

So there's like, there's

44:35

an that's another level, right? That

44:37

like once something is told in

44:40

a like popular media consumptive option,

44:43

it just enters your consciousness and lives

44:45

there, right? And you don't really know

44:47

where it came from. Something

44:49

I'm kind of wondering is,

44:51

I'm wondering about that

44:54

feeling of letdown when

44:56

you realize that the story has

44:58

been out there. Yeah. And

45:01

and like, a lot

45:03

of the people we've talked to

45:05

have said that they had this

45:07

moment of disappointment. When

45:10

they when they heard or they realized

45:12

that like other people had heard the

45:14

story before or that they were not

45:16

the people who were relaying it for

45:19

the first time. Interestingly, I didn't really

45:21

have that feeling when this came out. My

45:24

response was more of a like, Oh, that's

45:27

interesting. And I'm like really curious about this.

45:30

But I am I just, I feel like

45:32

I want to talk about that response of

45:34

disappointment. And like, what is it that we're

45:36

actually hoping to get? Over telling these stories

45:38

or engaging with them, that we're not getting

45:41

when we find out that the story has

45:43

been in the world before? Hmm.

45:46

I mean, Jay, you said that you felt kind

45:48

of bad. Do you feel like you felt disappointed?

45:51

Well, I think there were two layers of that. Like

45:53

one of them was just like, you

45:56

know, like, did I just mark myself as super naive?

45:58

Or did I do something? to the

46:00

show, like the job side of things that I shouldn't

46:02

have been worried about because y'all

46:05

have been extremely nice the whole time that I

46:07

worked here. And

46:10

then there was the side of it where like

46:12

before the episode came out, like after I had

46:14

like listened to all these submissions and I was

46:16

like on a high of just like main landing

46:18

all this gossip, I

46:21

went to a brewery with some friends and

46:23

like I told them the poop story. I

46:25

was like, I listened to

46:27

this today, like it's a

46:29

banger. Like I want

46:31

to share. And I have

46:33

never like followed up with them and like

46:35

admitted like what happened. I was just like, I

46:39

hope they didn't see the Instagram comments. Well,

46:42

does it feel different to you? Like does that,

46:44

do you feel like you need to follow up

46:46

with them? Because from my perspective, I'm like, they

46:48

still got the experience of a good story. Like

46:50

what, you know what I mean? Oh, I mean,

46:53

they had a great time, you know, like they

46:55

really, they were laughing so much. I was so

46:57

pleased with myself. I think

46:59

the part that I lost was

47:02

the feeling of having

47:04

told somebody a secret. Yeah.

47:06

I guess if they're being like an inside and

47:08

an outside to the story and like,

47:11

right. The feeling of

47:13

being on the inside of something was gone. Yeah.

47:16

So I was going to say that I

47:18

think there are like two things at

47:20

play here. Right. And the first

47:22

is like, what are you

47:25

trying to get out of telling the story? Right.

47:27

Like there is a version of telling

47:29

the story that is like buying a

47:31

lottery ticket to have a conversation about what you would

47:33

do with it. Right. Where you're

47:35

just like, I'm going to prompt everyone

47:37

at this table by giving you this

47:39

story and we're going to discuss it.

47:41

Right. And that is the value I'm

47:43

bringing. Right. And when you do that,

47:46

if that is your intention in sharing

47:48

it, it doesn't matter

47:50

if it's an urban legend or not. Right.

47:52

Because you have presented a story and everyone

47:54

freaks out and then you discuss it's like

47:56

ways she could have done better. Right. You

47:58

moralize like the decisions. made. And

48:00

that's the value is equal in the moment of

48:02

telling the story. Exactly. And this is why a

48:05

big toilet would love it because the answer is

48:09

plumbing. But

48:11

I think that you're right, Jay, there

48:13

is I think that

48:15

disappointment comes from the use

48:17

of gossip to create divisions

48:20

between people, right, which is

48:22

I know this information that

48:24

other people don't know. And

48:27

if everyone knows it, then it holds

48:29

less value. Yeah, right.

48:31

And so I think it depends on like how

48:33

you approach the concept itself. Like, are

48:35

you using it to draw

48:38

people closer to you? Because if

48:40

you're using this story as a way to

48:42

make people trust you more, and then it

48:44

turns out to be an urban legend,

48:46

you're in trouble. Well, Kelsey, feeling really

48:48

exposed in my Scorpio spidery tendencies right

48:50

now. Like, that's, that is an issue

48:52

with gossip storytelling, right? It's like, sometimes

48:54

you do it as an intention to

48:56

like, bring people in because sharing a

48:58

secret makes people closer. Yeah. So it's

49:00

like you've created an in group and

49:02

an out group. And if it is

49:04

revealed that the story you told

49:06

is actually everywhere, then you

49:09

didn't bring anyone closer to you, right? They will

49:11

drift away again. So I think

49:13

that's part of the disappointment. I

49:16

also think it is frustrating to

49:18

realize that a story you know,

49:20

something you thought was yours and

49:22

special is actually everyone's right. Like,

49:24

in the same way that like,

49:27

I mean, we used to make fun of

49:29

quote unquote, hipsters for doing this with music and

49:31

like the 2010s where it was like, oh,

49:34

are you mad that the band that you

49:36

like is popular enough to afford their rent?

49:39

But it was like, no, what they were mad

49:41

at is that it wasn't theirs anymore, right?

49:43

That it was everyone's and that like the

49:45

minute something you loved becomes for

49:48

everyone, it changes. And so

49:51

I think there's something of that there too, right?

49:53

It's like, I thought I had this special little

49:55

story that I told my friends, where

49:58

she scoops it out with a lady. and

50:00

put it in a tub of room box. And now

50:02

I have to question whether or not that's true.

50:04

Right? And like, I

50:07

would be disappointed too if I thought it was my

50:09

special little story. That's such a

50:11

good point. And it's like something that brings

50:13

me to the, to the really

50:16

nihilistic place of life. Well,

50:19

nothing is truly ours. If I know

50:21

a story that didn't happen to me,

50:24

then like, so many other people

50:26

know this story too already. And it like,

50:28

you know, what does it matter, man?

50:30

And now I'm gonna go

50:32

smoke weed in a field for the rest of the week.

50:34

Say bye. I'm ungirl. We'll miss you. Don't take me with

50:37

you. No,

50:41

I, I think you're right though. Like,

50:43

I don't, I don't

50:45

think it's nihilistic to say like,

50:48

it doesn't matter if the story is true or

50:50

not. And it doesn't matter where it happened. Because

50:53

like, the enjoyment of

50:55

the story doesn't come from the

50:57

facts. Like nothing in this story means that it

50:59

had to have been in America. You

51:02

don't lose anything from learning

51:04

that it was in England or Canada or

51:06

could have been anywhere. Like we have heard

51:09

this from multiple sources that it was around

51:11

as early as the early odds, which

51:14

means that like, over the course of 30

51:16

years, don't you think that it's

51:18

possible that this happened to more than one person? It's a

51:21

horror story,

51:27

but it's not the kind of horror

51:29

story that is like, so specific and

51:31

so unique that it's not replicable. Yeah,

51:35

no, it's so true. And as we were chasing

51:37

different leads for this story, like Alex

51:39

had to pull me back because I

51:41

was going down some weird rabbit holes.

51:43

Like somebody was like, there was an

51:45

episode of Chelsea lately, you know, with

51:47

Olivia Wilde. Oh, do not bring Chelsea

51:49

lately into this. I was like going

51:51

into the archives trying to find this

51:53

episode, couldn't find it. And then, you

51:55

know, I was finding other articles of

51:57

like somebody getting stuck in a window.

52:00

because she was trying to throw some poop

52:02

outside. It just felt

52:04

like there were a lot of echoes of

52:06

this story out there, or

52:08

just poop stories

52:10

in general, like ranging from news

52:13

articles to other urban legends. I

52:16

don't know. I think a lot about things

52:19

that are uniquely human, right?

52:21

And one of them is making music

52:23

and dancing, right? It's very silly when

52:25

someone is dancing. I was like to

52:27

try and persuade someone to do something

52:29

else, because it's like, oh, haha, like

52:31

what is it? It's so weird to

52:34

be a person. Like you're doing a

52:36

dance to try and convince your sister to come to

52:38

the club with you. Like, is that going to work?

52:41

But I feel that way about storytelling too, where it's

52:44

like, this is something that like only

52:46

we do. Like

52:49

telling stories verbally is something that

52:51

like only humans can do that

52:53

we know of. And

52:55

so like there's something kind of beautiful

52:58

to me about the idea that this

53:00

story is iterating and echoing and like

53:03

changing in different spheres, because

53:05

like, yeah, that's how it works.

53:08

Right? Like that's in the same way that

53:10

like you see similarities between the Bible

53:12

and the Norse gods and

53:15

the, you know, the Torah.

53:17

And you see similarities in

53:19

all storytelling all the time, because

53:21

there's only so many stories and

53:23

so many people. And like things

53:26

are just the same everywhere at all times.

53:28

Just like, Jesus. I'm

53:32

sober, incredibly. Well,

53:37

in conclusion, make sure to take

53:39

your probiotics. Yeah,

53:41

in conclusion, what

53:44

other conclusions are there here? We

53:46

don't care if it's true, but also if

53:48

it happens to you, if you care a

53:50

little bit, please don't. Yeah. And you know,

53:52

if you find yourself in this situation, I really

53:55

think a fireman would help you. Like,

53:57

I really. think

54:00

a fireman would burst down that door. Also,

54:03

I feel like you could

54:05

really get past this by just being honest.

54:08

Do not go home. Do not open your

54:10

door. Let me

54:12

go in first. I did something really embarrassing

54:14

and just like own it. And you don't

54:17

have to tell them yet. You can tell

54:19

them eventually. And I think

54:21

if you own that, that's fine. Beautiful.

54:24

Wow. Thank you so

54:26

much for bringing this to me. It

54:28

was terrifying and delightful. It was

54:30

our pleasure. Little presents and

54:32

a Tupperware. A little treat. Oh,

54:34

God. Let me unwrap

54:37

this single-use bag. What's in here? Jesus.

54:46

Thank you so much for listening to Snorkel Gossip. A

54:48

huge thank you to everyone who is willing

54:50

to talk to us about the poop story, especially

54:52

Lizzie, Tori, Jen, Richard,

54:55

McDonald, and Adrian Park. If

54:57

you have a gossip story to share with us,

54:59

you can email us at normalgossip at defector.com,

55:01

especially if you are the person

55:03

who puts the poop into the

55:05

Tupperware single-use bag or biblax. Or

55:08

you can leave us a voicemail at 2679Gossip. If

55:11

you love this podcast and want to support

55:13

us, become a friend or a friend of

55:15

a friend at supportnormalgossip.com. You

55:18

can follow the show on Instagram

55:20

and TikTok at normalgossip. You

55:22

can follow me on all social

55:24

media at atmckinneyhealthy. This episode was

55:27

produced by J. Tolviera. Alex Sijant

55:29

Laughlin is Defector's supervising producer and

55:31

Normal Gossip's co-creator. Justin

55:33

Ellis is Defector's project editor. Jasper

55:35

Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defector's

55:37

business guys. Tom Lay is

55:39

our editor-in-chief. Abigail Stiegel is

55:42

our intern. Dan McQuaid runs

55:44

our merch store, which you can find

55:46

at normalgossip.store. Tara Jacoby

55:48

designed our show art. Thank

55:50

you to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector

55:52

is a collectively owned subscriber-based media

55:55

company, and Normal Gossip is a proud member

55:57

of Radiotopia. Normal Gossip is

55:59

hosted by me, Kelsey McKinney, and please

56:01

remember, you did not hear this from me.

56:06

I am so excited to share that

56:08

our fellow radiotopia show, The Stoop, is

56:10

back with a new season. In

56:13

case you didn't know, The Stoop

56:15

is a place to hear vulnerable

56:17

stories that highlight the history of

56:19

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56:21

opinions. There is no

56:23

conversation that's too difficult to be told.

56:26

Hosts Leila and Hana are award-winning

56:28

storytellers and journalists, and this season,

56:30

it's all about black love. But

56:33

we're not talking love stories. We're

56:36

talking stories about traveling alone,

56:38

obsessions, black love scenes in

56:40

film, and breaking down the

56:42

generational patterns that keep people

56:44

stuck. It's all love

56:46

on The Stoop, as they celebrate

56:49

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56:52

Join them every other Thursday, wherever

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56:59

Podcast. Radiotopia.

57:04

From PRX.