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Welcome to Noble Blood, a production

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of iHeartRadio and Grim and

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Mild from Aaron Manky. Listener discretion

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advised.

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One brief content note before I begin,

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I talk about sexual violence and

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suicide in this episode, so if

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those themes are something that you are

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particularly sensitive to, this might

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be an episode to skip. The

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story of Medusa, like

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many ancient legends, plays

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out differently depending on which

0:35

version you're reading. It was

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Avid, in his Greek mythology

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fan fiction Metamorphoses, who

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introduced the version of Medusa's

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story that most listeners are probably

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familiar with today. In

0:48

that version, Medusa was the daughter

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of a sea god who grew up

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to be a beautiful young priestess

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of Athena or Minerva,

0:57

as the goddess would have been known to Avid

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and the Romans. Medusa

1:02

tragically caught the attention of

1:04

Poseidon or Neptune, who

1:07

proceeded to rape her in Minerva's

1:09

temple. Avid uses

1:12

the brutal word vitiace

1:15

injure, defile, or damage

1:17

to describe the act. You

1:20

might know what happens next in the story.

1:23

It's not Neptune who's punished,

1:25

but Medusa herself. Her

1:28

hair is transformed into snakes

1:31

by her own goddess. There

1:33

is a feminist reading of

1:36

that outcome, in which some see

1:38

Minerva giving Medusa

1:40

a means to protect herself against

1:43

future assault. That's

1:45

a generous reading, as

1:48

classic scholar Natalie Haynes reminds

1:50

us Minerva wasn't exactly a

1:52

girl's girl, but it's also a

1:55

fairly depressing reading. In

1:57

my view. Protected

1:59

may be, but Medusa's fate

2:01

is also sealed. She will

2:04

be a monster to be hunted, and

2:06

her severed head will later be

2:09

turned into a weapon for

2:11

another's use. Avid's

2:13

Metamorphosies is far from a

2:16

light read, both in terms of its

2:18

length and content. Sexual

2:20

violence is pervasive throughout

2:23

many of its stories. Jokingly

2:26

calling Metamorphoses Greek mythology

2:28

fan fiction is not really inaccurate,

2:31

but it's also not fully

2:33

painting the whole picture. The

2:36

text was meant to serve as a

2:38

history of the world from

2:40

creation to the death of Caesar.

2:44

Just as it's pervasive in the pages

2:46

of the text, sexual violence

2:49

is also pervasive in the history

2:51

of the world. Avid followed

2:54

Metamorphosies with Fasti,

2:56

which, instead of focusing on Greek

2:58

legends, finished wishes what the

3:01

last three books of Metamorphoses

3:03

began turning the lens to

3:05

Roman history, religion, culture,

3:08

and figures. Because both

3:10

books blend genre, and because

3:13

of the time they were written, much

3:15

of the content in both Metamorphoses

3:17

and Fosti fall somewhere

3:20

in between myth and history.

3:23

The noble woman Lucretia and

3:26

the famous story of the rape

3:28

she suffered at the hands of Sextus

3:31

Tarquinius, who is also known as

3:33

Tarquin, is one such

3:36

mythohistory found

3:38

in the pages of Avid's Fasti.

3:41

Some historians take an extreme

3:44

view on Lucretia's story,

3:46

claiming that it was a complete fabrication,

3:50

but the more widely accepted understanding

3:53

is that the legend probably grew

3:55

out of real events, but that

3:58

it was later shaped or

4:00

metamorphosed over time

4:02

to create a poignant, symbolic

4:05

narrative. Though Medusa

4:08

and Lucretia hail from different

4:11

cultures and different Ovid

4:13

poems, their stories

4:15

say a lot in conversation with

4:18

one another. They were both daughters

4:20

of powerful fathers, both

4:23

hailed for their beauty and purity,

4:26

both were raped by men

4:28

with more power than they had, and

4:31

in death they both became weapons

4:33

to be yielded by yet more

4:36

powerful men. But

4:38

where Medusa's head was

4:40

quite literally wielded by

4:42

Perseus, who used it to

4:44

turn his own enemies to stone, Lucretia's

4:48

body became more of a symbolic

4:50

weapon. After her rape

4:53

and subsequent suicide, her

4:55

body was displayed on the streets

4:58

by revolutionaries to incite

5:00

rebellion. Lucretia's

5:03

suicide after her assault is

5:05

known as the catalyst that led

5:08

to the fall of the Roman monarchy,

5:11

the reason that the Roman Empire

5:13

no longer had kings. The

5:16

story of the ideal Roman

5:18

woman driven to take her own

5:20

life because of the actions of a man drunk

5:23

on his own power became itself

5:26

a powerful enough narrative to

5:28

be, as the French philosopher

5:30

Pierre Bale put it, quote, one

5:32

of the hinges on which the history

5:35

of the Romans turns. Perhaps

5:39

more critically, we can look

5:41

at Lucretia through the words of Simone

5:43

de Beauvois, who wrote that

5:46

it is through women that quote

5:49

certain historical events have

5:51

been set off, but the women

5:53

have been pretexts rather

5:55

than agents. The suicide

5:58

of Lucretia has had value

6:00

only as symbol. But

6:03

where did the story and the

6:05

symbol come from? What role

6:08

has it played in different moments

6:10

and history? And is it possible

6:12

to know who Lucretia

6:15

was really or

6:17

will she always be in the hands

6:19

of men using her for

6:22

their ends. I'm Dana

6:24

Schwartz, and this is noble

6:26

blood.

6:32

Just as with the myth of Medusa,

6:34

the story of Lucretia will differ

6:36

from historian to historian, storyteller

6:39

to storyteller. The first

6:42

recorded account of Lucretia's

6:44

story comes from the Roman historian

6:47

Livy in his History of

6:49

Rome, written nearly five hundred

6:51

years after the event described.

6:54

Before Livy, the story existed

6:56

in oral tradition, and after

6:59

him it would continue on in the

7:01

hands of other writers and historians

7:04

like Dionysus of Halikarnassis,

7:07

Dio, Cassius Avid, and eventually

7:10

Shakespeare, Machiavelli, and Rousseau,

7:13

each with their own interpretation and

7:16

agenda in their tellings.

7:19

The scholar ian Donaldson,

7:22

in his book Rapes of Lucretia, A

7:24

Myth and Its Transformations,

7:26

reconstructs the earliest

7:28

versions of the story to give

7:31

a composite picture of what might have

7:33

been the quote historic event.

7:35

It goes like this. In five

7:38

hundred and nine BC, the

7:41

Roman King Tarquinis Superbus

7:44

was attempting a siege of the town

7:46

of Ardea. One night during

7:48

the siege, a group of noblemen, the

7:50

king's son among them, were

7:52

having a wife off, boasting

7:55

about whose wife was the most

7:57

virtuous, the most beautiful,

8:00

the most exemplary. One

8:02

nobleman, Calatinus, insisted

8:05

that his wife, Lucretia, daughter

8:07

of the magistrate Lucretius, was

8:10

second to none, her virtue

8:12

the most virtuous, her beauty

8:14

the most beauteous. When

8:17

the boasting turned competitive, it

8:19

was suggested that the group would make the

8:22

twenty somethingter mile trip back

8:24

to Rome to assess each

8:26

wife themselves. Most

8:28

of the wives were found together

8:31

chatting and engaging in idle

8:33

pastimes, but Lucretia

8:36

hashtag not like other girls, was

8:38

found at home alone spinning

8:41

wool homemaking while her husband

8:43

was away on the front lines. Lucretia

8:46

won the contest of best and

8:49

most wife. Though

8:51

the story begins light and even

8:53

a little bit silly to our modern ears,

8:56

the story takes a dark turn.

9:00

In Livy's words in translation,

9:02

the king's son quote Sextus

9:05

Tarquinius was seized with a

9:07

wicked desire to debauch

9:10

Lucretia by force. Not

9:12

only her beauty, but her proved chastity

9:14

as well provoked him.

9:18

The men returned to Ardia, but Tarquin

9:20

later returned alone. Lucretia

9:23

courteously received the king's

9:25

son as anyone would be expected

9:28

to, giving him food and a

9:30

room to stay in for the night, but

9:32

when the household was asleep, he

9:35

entered her bedroom in the middle of the night

9:37

with a sword on his person. Tarquin

9:40

first attempted to seduce Lucretia

9:43

with promises to marry her and make

9:46

her queen, but when that didn't work,

9:48

he turned to threats. If

9:50

he couldn't have her, he would kill

9:52

her. She continued to

9:55

deny him, and so he came

9:57

up with another plan. He

9:59

threatened to kill not only her

10:01

but also one of his slaves, and

10:04

to place their naked bodies in her

10:06

bed together and then claim

10:08

he found them together and killed them

10:10

in outrage. The posthumous

10:13

shame of that final threat was

10:15

too much for Lucretia. She

10:18

stopped resisting, and Tarquin

10:20

proceeded to rape her. The

10:23

following morning, Lucretia summoned

10:25

her father, Lucretius and her

10:28

husband Calatinus, to their home,

10:30

and she asked each of them to bring

10:33

a trusted friend. Calatinus

10:36

brought Lucius Junius Brutus,

10:39

not the A two guy, to be very

10:41

clear, but a nephew of King

10:43

Superbus, a nephew and

10:46

not a fan. Brutus

10:48

was generally thought of as an idiot,

10:51

but he was in reality putting on an

10:53

act of ignorance, waiting for

10:56

his moment to get revenge on the

10:58

king who murdered his father and

11:00

brother. And so with

11:02

those four men gathered, Lucretia

11:05

told the story of what happened the

11:07

night before, and when she

11:09

was done telling the story, she

11:11

revealed a knife beneath her garments,

11:15

which she used to stab herself

11:17

and die. Brudus

11:19

removed the knife from her body

11:22

and swore an oath by the blood of

11:24

Lucretia none more chaste.

11:26

Tell a tyrant wronged her that

11:29

he would drive the Tarquins from Rome.

11:32

With that, a revolution began

11:34

to form. Lucretia's body

11:37

was displayed at the Forum in Rome,

11:39

where Brudus rallied the Romans

11:41

by showing them the tyranny of the Tarquins

11:44

and its consequences. It

11:47

was a successful publicity

11:49

campaign and the people drove

11:51

the royal family out of Rome, vowing

11:54

to have no more kings.

11:56

Brudus and Lucretia's husband

11:58

Calatinus were installed as

12:01

the first consuls of the Roman

12:03

Republic. The end

12:06

or is it? That is the

12:09

SparkNotes version of events,

12:11

but technically yeah. The last

12:14

mention of Lucretia in her story

12:17

is that of her body on display while

12:20

she was alive. However, she does

12:22

get a bit more characterization in

12:25

other versions of her story.

12:33

In Livy's telling, Lucretia has

12:36

a poignant rallying speech

12:38

before she takes her life, quote,

12:40

my body alone has been violated.

12:43

My heart is guiltless, as

12:45

death shall be my witness. But

12:48

pledge your right hands and your words

12:50

that the adulterer shall not go unpunished.

12:54

Her death is than heroic,

12:56

even masculine in a sense, as

12:59

death by night was not traditionally

13:01

associated with women at the time, It's

13:04

portrayed as a morally virtuous

13:07

death. Lucretia is killing herself,

13:09

she explains, so that promiscuous

13:12

women cannot use her as an example

13:14

to justify their own actions.

13:17

Avid, for his part, gives

13:20

Lucretia more dialogue in the story's

13:22

beginning when she laments

13:24

the danger her husband may be in on

13:26

the front lines, and when she

13:28

joyously throws herself into his

13:31

arms upon his return, even

13:33

in front of all of his comrades. Lucretia

13:36

is portrayed as devoted and tender,

13:39

while also sheltered and a

13:41

little naive. Avid also

13:44

gives us a physical description for

13:46

the first time. Her complexion

13:48

is snowy, she uses no

13:51

cosmetics, her hair is

13:53

golden and flowing freely. It's

13:56

this physical Lucretia that we

13:58

will most often see in artistic

14:00

depictions to come. Her appearance

14:03

was a feminine ideal. By Avid's

14:06

time, most Roman women had

14:08

dark hair and an olive complexion

14:11

to imitate the desirable German

14:13

beauty standard. Sex workers

14:16

were actually known to wear blonde

14:18

wigs, while women across

14:20

classes wore chalk on their faces

14:22

to appear paler. Lucretia's

14:25

characterization through her words,

14:27

actions, and appearance, then

14:30

all serves to portray her as

14:32

an ideal in every sense.

14:36

But what happens when you kill an

14:38

ideal? Avid's telling

14:40

takes an arguably more human

14:43

approach when compared to Livy.

14:46

His Lucretia does not die grandly,

14:49

calling for revenge.

14:51

Instead, the morning after

14:53

the horrific event, she's visibly

14:56

disheveled and wearing a morning gown.

14:58

She's distraught and finds herself

15:01

having trouble telling her father

15:03

and husband what has happened.

15:06

This Lucretia is overcome by

15:08

grief and cannot find her

15:10

heart guiltless. Instead,

15:12

her last words are quote, though

15:14

you forgive me, I cannot forgive

15:17

myself. Only

15:19

through death does Lucretia

15:21

believe that she can preserve her virtues.

15:24

But her death becomes far bigger

15:26

than that. In the end, she doesn't

15:29

just die for what she saw as her

15:31

sins, she also dies

15:33

for the birth of the republic. As

15:36

the ideal woman of the

15:38

Roman Republic, Lucretia's

15:41

death both literally and metaphorically

15:44

expunged the tyrant and

15:46

his lineage from Rome, literally

15:49

because she might have been pregnant

15:51

with the son of the son of the king. Lucretia's

15:55

role in Roman history is not

15:57

completely dissimilar from

15:59

that of an earlier woman in Roman mythology,

16:02

one of the famed Vestal virgins,

16:05

Raya Silvia, who according to

16:07

legend, was raped by Mars

16:10

and gave birth to Ramus and Romulus.

16:13

The wolf raised twins, whose

16:16

battle for divine favor is

16:18

remembered as the traditional founding

16:20

story of Rome. Both

16:23

stories were that of a chaste

16:25

woman. One would bring

16:27

about the Kingdom of Rome and

16:29

the other the Roman Republic.

16:32

If we remember Simon de Beauvoir's

16:34

words here quote, women

16:37

have been pretexts rather

16:39

than agents. Livy

16:41

states in his history that his writing

16:44

is not just intended to be a history

16:46

lesson, but also moral instruction,

16:50

hoping Roman readers of the day could

16:52

learn from Romans of the past,

16:54

which probably explains Lucretia's

16:57

inspirational speech. Ofvid

17:00

was less concerned with the morality

17:02

of the average Roman. His Lucretius

17:05

story was actually written during his exile

17:07

from Rome by the Emperor Augustus.

17:10

The reasons for this exile were never

17:12

actually documented, but do not

17:14

worry, the city of Rome did

17:17

revoke his exile in twenty

17:19

seventeen, only two thousand years

17:21

later. Both Avid

17:24

and Livy had a vested interest

17:26

in portraying the corruption of

17:28

power, emphasizing in their

17:31

stories the inherent wickedness

17:33

and immorality of the son

17:35

of the king, Sextus Tarquinius.

17:38

This is how the story would be understood

17:41

for many years, with Tarquin

17:43

as a monster and Lucretia

17:46

as both a victim and a

17:48

martyr. It

17:55

wasn't until Augustine, the

17:57

bishop and theologian, who wrote

17:59

on the City of God against

18:02

the Pagans, that Lucretia's

18:04

role would be altered in

18:06

the public consciousness. Regarded

18:09

today as a cornerstone of Western

18:11

thought. Augustine's work was

18:13

written between four hundred and

18:15

thirteen and four hundred and twenty

18:18

six a d. In the context

18:20

of the ongoing conflict between

18:23

Christians and Pagans. After

18:25

the sack of Rome by the Goths

18:28

in four hundred and ten, Pagans

18:31

were beginning to fear that Christianity

18:34

and the abandonment of Roman gods

18:37

was the cause of their suffering, and

18:39

with City of God, Augustine,

18:42

from the Roman province in North

18:44

Africa, was seeking to

18:46

counter those arguments and bolster

18:49

the faith of Christians. The

18:51

title comes from the idea that even

18:54

if earthly empires fall, the

18:56

City of God will ultimately

18:58

prevail. When it comes

19:01

to Augustine's writing on Lucretia,

19:04

he begins quote they, as

19:06

in Pagans, will certainly

19:08

bring out Lucretia with great praises

19:11

for her chastity. If

19:13

that feels a little mocking, it's

19:16

because it was. Augustine

19:19

goes on to question why Lucretia

19:21

killed herself if she was truly

19:24

guilty of nothing. He

19:26

argues that she actually killed

19:28

herself because even though she was

19:31

attacked, she eventually

19:33

consented, and her consent,

19:36

rather than being out of fear

19:38

of the consequences as in the original

19:40

tellings, was in Augustine's

19:43

mind because she secretly desired

19:46

Tarquin Eleanor

19:48

Glendinning writes in her analysis

19:50

that quote, a person committed to the Christian

19:53

faith could suffer any bodily

19:55

suffering and emerge with an even

19:57

stronger mind and conviction in

19:59

the existence of God. By doing so, Augustine's

20:04

City of God also laid the foundations

20:06

for early Christian beliefs surrounding

20:09

suicide. In general. Augustine

20:11

believed that thou shalt not kill

20:14

also referred to oneself.

20:18

Augustine is disparaging a

20:20

pagan hero using a Christian

20:23

narrative, and the Western world

20:25

will of course only continue to move

20:28

further from paganism and

20:30

towards Christianity as time

20:32

marches. On. The other

20:34

change, Augustine makes here is distancing

20:37

Lucretia from the revolutionary

20:39

narrative. Augustine does not care

20:41

about the Tarquins or Brutus.

20:44

He has just focused on Lucretia

20:46

as an unworthy pagan

20:49

martyr figure. It's

20:51

important to discuss Augustine

20:53

because his words will have permeated

20:55

the culture of every writer that

20:58

tells the story of Lucretia going far forward,

21:00

whether they agreed with him or not. Disconnecting

21:04

her from politics also

21:06

gave way to new narratives want

21:09

about chastity, lust, and

21:11

temptation. There are many

21:13

Renaissance paintings of Lucretia,

21:16

but most are domestic, not

21:18

political scenes, domestic

21:21

scenes with her in various states

21:23

of undress, either fending

21:25

off her attacker or pointing

21:27

the knife at her own chest. There's

21:29

also an eroticism to these

21:31

paintings that can arguably be

21:34

traced back to Augustine.

21:41

All of this brings me to Shakespeare.

21:44

Shakespeare's main source for his

21:46

narrative poem The Rape of Lucrece

21:49

wasn't Augustine, but actually the

21:52

originals Avid and Livy.

21:55

There are, though, a number of ways

21:57

in which Shakespeare's poem depart

22:00

arts from its source material. But

22:02

one in particular is shockingly

22:05

different. Lucretia's suicide

22:08

in Shakespeare's poem does not

22:10

lead to a revolution. In fact,

22:13

there is no mention of the Roman

22:15

Republic at all. Late

22:17

in the poem, Lucretia has a

22:19

lengthy speech reflecting back

22:22

on her rapist's crime. Quote,

22:24

thou seemest not what thou art

22:27

a god? A king? For kings,

22:30

like gods, should govern everything.

22:33

How wilt thy shame be seated

22:35

in thine age? When thus

22:38

thy vices bud before thy

22:40

spring? If in thy

22:42

hope thou darst do such

22:44

outrage? What darst thou

22:47

not? When once thou art

22:49

a king? Right off

22:51

the bat? We are in a very different

22:53

political atmosphere than the

22:56

world of Livy and Avid. Maybe

22:58

it's obvious Shakespeare lived in England

23:01

under a monarchy. His Lucretia

23:04

is comparing kings and gods

23:06

in a positive way, going

23:08

so far as to say that they should govern

23:11

everything. The message is

23:13

not that absolute power corrupts

23:15

absolutely. It's that Tarquin

23:18

is corrupted absolutely. One

23:21

bad apple. Shakespeare's

23:23

Lucretia continues, quote,

23:26

this deed will make thee only loved

23:28

for fear. But happy monarchs

23:31

are still feared for love with

23:33

foul offenders, Thou perforce

23:36

must bear when they in thee

23:38

the like offenses prove, if

23:41

but for fear of this, thy

23:44

will remove. For princes

23:46

are the glass, the school, the

23:48

book where subjects, eyes

23:50

do learn, do read, do

23:53

look. Lucretia is speaking

23:55

with more political language than she

23:57

has in any other version of her story,

24:00

but it is a far cry from what

24:02

the original political purpose of

24:04

her story was. Shakespeare

24:07

is instead working within the genre

24:09

of mirrors for Princes, a

24:12

literary genre that was popular

24:14

throughout the Middle Ages and the Renaissance,

24:17

which sought to, as the title

24:19

implies, provide advice

24:22

and examples for rulers

24:25

to give advice on how to be a

24:27

good prince. Shakespeare's

24:29

The Rape of Lucrece ends with Brutus

24:32

declaring to avenge her death,

24:35

but this is done by banishing

24:37

Tarquin from Rome, not starting

24:40

the republic. The poem ends

24:42

quote, when they had sworn to this

24:45

advised doom, they did

24:47

conclude to bear dead Lucrece,

24:49

thence to show her bleeding body

24:52

through Rome, and so to publish

24:54

Tarquin's foul offense, which

24:57

being done with speedy diligence,

24:59

The Roman plausibly did give

25:01

consent to Tarquin's everlasting

25:05

banishment. Lucretia's

25:07

body is still a political

25:09

weapon, but as a symbol she

25:11

carries much less weight when

25:14

Tarquin is simply banished, as

25:16

opposed to he and his family being

25:18

forever removed from power and

25:20

the entire system of government of

25:23

Rome changing forever. Shakespeare

25:28

is much more focused on the actions

25:30

of the individual, and make

25:32

no mistake, he thinks Tarquinius

25:34

is corrupt. Though he is

25:37

writing in a post Augustine world.

25:39

It is clear that what Lucretia

25:42

feels towards her attacker in Shakespeare's

25:44

poem is fear she

25:47

is not consenting. Shakespeare

25:49

uses a metaphor of Tarquin as

25:51

a predator, the wolf hath

25:54

seized his prey, the poor

25:56

lamb cries. Compared

25:59

to Augustine, Shakespeare also

26:01

displays a far greater understanding

26:03

of the reality of the physiological

26:06

repercussions of rape. While

26:08

Lucretia's family believes quote

26:11

her bodies stain, her mind untainted

26:14

clears, he writes that quote

26:17

with a joyless smile. She

26:19

turns away the face

26:21

that map, which deep impression

26:23

bears of hard misfortune

26:26

carved in it with tears. Her

26:29

suicide is not the result

26:32

of her secretly being unchased.

26:34

In Shakespeare's version, it is, as

26:37

it was in the beginning, a preservation

26:39

of her chastity. We know

26:42

this because Shakespeare has her

26:44

tell us quote for me,

26:46

I am the mistress of my fate, she

26:49

states as she contemplates what

26:51

to do in the aftermath of her assault.

26:54

She's given more dialogue, more of

26:56

an inner life here than in any other

26:58

telling, aligning her more with

27:00

Shakespeare's other tragic heroines.

27:04

Shakespeare's telling of Lucretia

27:06

may appear to be removed from

27:08

key points of its original context,

27:11

but again, it fits quite nicely

27:13

in Elizabethan England. It's

27:16

not a stretch to draw parallels

27:18

between the virgin queen who

27:21

proudly sacrificed marriage for

27:23

her country, and Lucretia,

27:25

who was so chaste that she died

27:28

for hers. The poem was

27:30

written around the same time Shakespeare

27:33

would make another reference to the virgin

27:35

Queen in A Midsummer Night's

27:37

Dream, when Oberon speaks

27:40

of quote a fair vestal

27:42

throned by the west. Shakespeare's

27:46

flattery also appears in

27:48

Richard the Third, in which the

27:50

mad villainous hunchbacked king

27:53

is overthrown not by a revolution

27:56

but by combat with the next king,

27:59

who have to be Elizabeth's

28:01

great grandfather. But

28:08

for a prospective on Lucretia's

28:10

story that returns to the original

28:13

revolutionary sentiments, let's

28:15

go where else to France

28:19

or more specifically, Geneva. As

28:21

Jean Jacques Rousseau bounced between

28:23

European countries throughout his life,

28:26

His unfinished tragic play

28:28

LaMonte de Lucrece was composed

28:31

around seventeen fifty four

28:33

seventeen fifty six, still

28:35

early years in Rousseau's career. Seventeen

28:38

fifty four was the same year he wrote

28:41

his foundational Discourse

28:43

on the Origin and Basis of

28:45

Inequality among Men, in

28:47

which he argued that moral inequality

28:50

is not innate to humans, rather

28:52

a product of quote, wealth,

28:55

nobility or rank, power,

28:57

and personal merit. Given

29:00

Russeau's lofty Enlightenment

29:02

ideals, his play does,

29:05

as you might imagine, return Lucretia's

29:07

story to its Republican roots,

29:10

the roots that we're lacking in Shakespeare's

29:13

telling. But like in Shakespeare's

29:15

a number of details have been changed

29:18

for storytelling purposes. Lucretia

29:21

begins Russeau's story engaged

29:24

to sexist Tarquinius, but

29:26

her father breaks it off despite

29:28

the wishes of the king, and Lucretia

29:31

instead marries the less powerful

29:33

Calatin for different political

29:35

reasons. There may have once

29:37

been something between the two, but

29:39

Lucretia tells her handmaiden that

29:42

she prefers quote the constant

29:44

and peaceful love of Coltan to

29:46

the fiery passions of Sextus.

29:49

Referring to Tarquin still,

29:51

she prays, quote, O God

29:54

who sees my heart, clarify

29:56

my judgment. Guarantee

29:58

I do not cease to be virtuous.

30:01

You know that although I want to be,

30:03

I will always be if you want

30:05

it as well. So in

30:08

this version there is a temptation

30:10

to return to Tarquin, but Lucretia

30:13

fights against it. Because

30:16

this is theater, we're given a story

30:18

that's a more dramatic

30:21

and be an introduction to a

30:23

number of additional moving parts

30:25

that weren't present in any other version.

30:28

In Rousseau's version, Tarquin has

30:30

promised that he'll arrange a marriage between

30:33

two lovers, his servant and Lucretia's

30:35

handmaiden, if the two of them can

30:38

arrange a secret meeting between him

30:40

and his ex fiancee, Lucretia.

30:43

Lucretia's maid is wary, believing

30:45

her lady is quote not capable

30:48

of feeling anything but for her spouse

30:50

and her duty. But Tarquin's

30:53

servant argues that Lucretia only

30:55

puts up appearances of virtue,

30:58

and no one would ultimately but

31:00

virtue above personal passions.

31:03

While all of that is going on, Brutus

31:06

is already plotting his revolution to

31:08

overthrow the Tarquins. He

31:10

tries to persuade Colton to join

31:12

his cause by telling him about how

31:15

Tarquin is in love with his wife,

31:17

but Coltan simply tells him quote,

31:20

I know the virtues of Lucretia's

31:22

heart. On top of that, Colton

31:25

fears war and the possibility

31:27

of anarchy, slavery, and civil

31:30

strife after the monarchs are driven

31:32

out. Lucretius, his father

31:34

in law, accuses him of being

31:37

childish, taking the easy

31:39

way out by continuing to live in

31:41

comfort under tyrants rather

31:44

than fighting for the greater good of

31:46

liberty and equality. The

31:49

rest of Rousseau's play is only

31:51

available to us in fragments.

31:53

Tarquin laments that Lucretia's

31:56

quote virtue deserving of adoration

31:58

by the gods has been soiled

32:01

by him quote the violist of

32:03

mortals, before in a twist,

32:06

he kills himself. It's

32:08

unclear in this version whether rape

32:11

or consensual sex happened, but

32:13

Lucretia ultimately kills herself

32:15

as well.

32:21

In Rousseau's autobiographical

32:23

work Confessions, he describes

32:25

his reasoning for writing about

32:27

Lucretia quote, I planned

32:30

a prose tragedy on no less

32:32

a subject than Lucrece, with

32:34

which I had some hope of overcoming

32:37

derision, even though I ventured

32:40

to bring that unfortunate woman back

32:42

to the stage when she had become

32:44

an impossible subject for the French

32:46

theater. He was referring to

32:49

two failed productions by French

32:51

playwrights, first Jean Francois

32:53

Rignard and Charles de Francais,

32:56

who had produced comedies of the

32:58

story, notes, which

33:01

I have to imagine is probably why

33:03

they didn't work. Rousseau

33:06

instead believed Lucretia could

33:08

be a quote useful heroine

33:11

with whom Parisian audiences could

33:13

identify. Melissa

33:17

M. Mathis, in her book The Rape

33:19

of Lucretia and the Founding of Republics,

33:22

writes that quote. For Rousseau,

33:24

the story of the rape of Lucretia is

33:26

in part an apt encapsulation

33:29

of deterioration and renewal,

33:32

an allegory for the loss

33:34

and potential rebirth of

33:36

the Republic. And for Rousseau,

33:39

women are the perfect emblem of

33:41

both corruption and the possibility

33:44

of renewal. Who else in

33:46

eighteenth century French society

33:49

has fallen further than women, specifically

33:52

the bourgeois women of the salons.

33:55

Yet upon whom else can the possibility

33:57

for renewal be placed? Even

34:00

the wretched can be redeemed, made

34:02

into the virtuous nursemaids of

34:04

the republic. Surely there is

34:06

still reason to believe in the

34:09

possibility of a Republican rebirth.

34:12

That is why.

34:13

Rousseau's Lucretia struggles with

34:16

temptation, not because she is

34:18

ultimately sinful, but because

34:20

she is virtuous but human.

34:23

Rousseau isn't as obsessed with

34:25

innocence as other Enlightenment

34:27

figures. He believes that redemption

34:30

and rebirth can come from places

34:33

of corruption. This Lucretia's

34:35

world is one of scheming fathers

34:38

and maids and servants, all using

34:40

her as a pawn in their larger

34:43

games. Even Calatinus,

34:46

her husband, is corrupt here,

34:48

fitting the model of the nouveau

34:51

bourgeois that Rousseau detested.

34:54

He, like the bourgeois, is

34:56

absorbed in his own comfort,

34:59

reluctant to give up his privileges

35:02

even for the greater good. In

35:04

Rousseau's version, we don't see Lucretia's

35:07

body weaponized as literally

35:09

as in the others, but it's still

35:11

used as a tool, only this time

35:14

for Tarquin's redemption. Tarquin

35:17

is so horrified by what he

35:19

has done, whether it was

35:21

tempting Lucretia or assaulting

35:23

her, that he is driven to kill

35:25

himself, as she usually

35:28

exclusively is. In the

35:30

wake of his transgression, he

35:33

realizes that he is the vilest

35:35

of mortals, reaching a quite

35:38

literal moment of enlightenment, his

35:40

violation of Lucretia

35:42

was his path to redemption. Lucretia,

35:46

for her part, kills herself

35:49

in one part to preserve her virtue, but

35:51

also because of Quote having shared

35:54

in the crime. Because

35:56

these parts of the play are only available

35:59

to us as fragments, it's

36:01

hard to do a complete analysis,

36:03

but it does present an interesting

36:06

contrast with Augustine. Augustine

36:09

believed Lucretia killed herself because

36:11

she was guilty of desiring Tarquin,

36:14

and therefore she was unworthy of pagan

36:17

admiration. Rousseau

36:19

believes that she potentially killed

36:22

herself for the same reasons, but

36:24

he presents it as heroic. There's

36:27

not a sense that killing herself

36:29

is purifying her body and her

36:31

country, as there was in the original version,

36:34

but rather the larger idea

36:37

that the republic can still be born

36:39

from an imperfect mother. But

36:42

no matter which narrative we look

36:44

at from any date, place,

36:47

or time, Lucretia is always

36:49

the pretext rather than the agent.

36:52

Her value is mostly that

36:54

of symbol. In some of these

36:56

tellings, she's given a greater inner life,

36:59

a richer carecterzation, but

37:01

it's always to serve the ultimate goal

37:03

of saying something about the place

37:05

and time in which her story

37:07

is being retold. It's

37:10

difficult to answer the question I

37:12

posed at the beginning of this episode,

37:15

who is Lucretia really?

37:17

Because she's something different to every

37:20

writer that she's been the subject of.

37:24

Maybe there isn't even a real Lucretia

37:26

at all. But that's also a question

37:28

that's impossible to answer ultimately.

37:31

For better or for worse, Lucretia

37:34

exists, but she exists as

37:37

legend.

37:42

That's the story of Lucretia and the many,

37:44

many ways she's been interpreted over

37:47

the course of history. But keep listening

37:49

after a brief sponsor break for

37:52

a very important artistic

37:54

interpretation of Lucretia by

37:56

a woman.

38:06

Artemisia Gentileschi was a Baroque

38:09

painter, the first woman to become

38:11

a member of the Academia in Florence,

38:13

perhaps best known for her

38:15

paintings of Judith, the Jewish

38:18

heroine. Not only did several

38:20

of her paintings focus on Judith, but

38:23

Lucretia was also a subject that

38:25

Artemisia returned to multiple

38:27

times. Her sixteen

38:30

twenty five portrait of Lucretia,

38:33

fittingly entitled Lucretia, shows

38:36

a well known scene with new nuance.

38:39

Lucretia is moments from suicide,

38:41

her left hand clutching the knife

38:44

and her right hand clutching her breast.

38:46

She's disheveled in the aftermath of her

38:48

assault, but the painting doesn't

38:50

feel erotic as it sometimes

38:53

does in the hands of other masters. She

38:56

is not fair haired or flawless.

38:58

Her brow is tightly wrinkled

39:00

and The distress is evident on

39:03

her face, and she looks up

39:05

in contemplation. We see

39:07

the defined muscles of her legs

39:10

and the strength in her hands. There

39:12

is clear pain, but there's also

39:15

clear strength. When

39:17

Artemisia was seventeen, she

39:20

herself was raped by another

39:22

Italian painter, Agostino

39:24

Tassi, and when the case

39:26

went to trial on the grounds of Tossi

39:29

dishonoring her family, Artemisia

39:32

was subjected to torture during

39:34

her testimony to prove she

39:36

was telling the truth. Her experiences

39:39

have affected the way art historians

39:41

view her paintings, and

39:44

while many have believed she sought to

39:46

portray vengeance, a

39:48

newer school of thought argues that what

39:50

Artemisia was actually interested

39:53

in was showing strength

39:55

in her female heroines. There

39:57

are even some art historians

40:00

who see similarities between

40:02

Artemisia's self portraits, one

40:05

entitled quite Poignantly Self

40:07

Portrait as a Female Martyr,

40:10

and her sixteen twenty five

40:12

portrait of Lucretia. I

40:15

encourage you to look at these works

40:17

for yourself, along with Artemisia's

40:20

other masterful compositions. She

40:22

is wonderful both as an artist

40:25

and just a name that we get

40:27

to say Artemisia Gentileschi,

40:30

who ultimately whether

40:32

or not Artemisia Genta Leschi's

40:35

past influenced her future decision

40:37

to paint Lucretia, her

40:39

perspective introduced a

40:42

new depth that was lacking

40:44

amongst her peers.

40:55

Noble Blood is a production of

40:57

iHeartRadio and Grim and

40:59

miniled from Aaron Manke. Noble

41:02

Blood is created and hosted by

41:04

me Dana Shwarts, with additional

41:07

writing and researching by Hannah

41:09

Johnston, Hannah Zwick, Mira

41:11

Hayward, Courtney Sender, and Lori

41:14

Goodman. The show is edited

41:16

and produced by Noemi Griffin

41:18

and rima Il Kahali, with

41:21

supervising producer Josh Thain

41:23

and executive producers Aaron Manke,

41:26

Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick.

41:29

For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

41:31

visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple

41:34

Podcasts, or wherever you listen

41:36

to your favorite shows.