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and Property Insurance Company and affiliates Northbrook, Illinois. Welcome

1:03

to the Next Level Soul podcast where

1:05

we ask the big questions about life.

1:07

Why are we here? Is this all

1:09

there is? What is my

1:12

soul's mission? We attempt

1:14

to answer those questions and more by bringing

1:16

you raw and inspiring conversations with

1:19

some of the most fascinating and thought-provoking guests

1:21

on the planet today. I

1:23

am your host, Alex Ferrari. Please

1:48

subscribe to our channel

1:50

for more. The

2:00

views and opinions expressed in this

2:02

podcast are those of the guest

2:04

and do not necessarily reflect the

2:06

views or positions of the show,

2:08

its host, or any of the

2:11

companies they represent. Now today

2:13

on the show, I welcome back one of my

2:15

favorite guests on Next Level

2:17

Soul, Paul Selig. Now

2:19

Paul joined me in the studio

2:22

to discuss the spiritual struggle

2:24

for humanity's soul and

2:27

what the guides have to say about what

2:29

is happening around the world, what's happening within

2:31

your own experience, and so,

2:34

so much more. So let's dive

2:36

in. I'd

2:38

like to welcome back to the show, returning champion,

2:41

Paul Selig. How you doing, Paul? I'm good. Thanks

2:44

for having me. Thank you so much for coming

2:46

all the way down here to Next Level Soul

2:49

Studios and joining me

2:51

live. We've done, I think this is

2:53

episode five that we've done. It could well

2:55

be. I think this is the fifth one

2:57

we've done together and you're in a rare

2:59

club, the five timer club that's been on

3:01

this show. That's how much I love having

3:04

you and our conversations and I really appreciate

3:06

you coming down to do this live for

3:08

the first time, so I appreciate it. I'm

3:10

really glad to be asked. Thanks. Thank you

3:12

so much and we're going to have an

3:14

interesting conversation, but we're also going to be

3:16

talking about your new film, a new film.

3:18

Listen to me, I'm back in the olden

3:20

days, your new book, A World Made New

3:22

by the Guides and we were just talking that

3:24

you have no idea what this is anymore. You forgot

3:26

what you wrote. Mostly I forget what I wrote. I

3:29

haven't done the audio book yet and it's when I

3:31

sit down and I do the audio book and I

3:33

have to read the transcripts. That's really

3:35

the first time that I really read the

3:37

material because when the books are being dictated,

3:39

I remember maybe a third of what

3:42

comes through. Yeah. I

3:46

wish I had that kind of ability to just

3:48

spit out books because you spit them out once

3:50

a year at least. That's how it's been. Yeah.

3:53

This is the 12th book. And

3:56

do they have an expiration of how many more they want to

3:58

do or is it just going to keep going? they've

4:00

said that this book is the end of

4:02

the teaching that began with the first book

4:05

which was called I Am The Word. So

4:07

this sort of is the

4:09

completion of the first teaching and they're starting another

4:11

one. So I know that there's two more. I

4:13

know that much. I don't know what they are

4:15

yet but they said we have two more that

4:18

we want to dictate so they'll

4:20

come. My gosh kind of like Harry Potter like after

4:22

the first seven books.

4:25

Six books I remember they were. Yeah. And now you're

4:27

like people like so are there more? Yeah there's a

4:29

whole other series. I don't know how long it's gonna

4:31

be. I you know I don't

4:33

know how long I can sit in a chair and

4:35

do this. I mean I'm grateful for it. I don't

4:38

understand it. But every time with

4:40

these books because I don't even know what they're called

4:42

until they deliver it. I don't know the title. I

4:44

don't know anything. I sit in a chair and I

4:46

hear you know we have a book to write and

4:48

then they said this is chapter one and bang bang

4:50

bang bang bang bang bang bang and that's how

4:52

it comes. It's all spoken. There's no

4:54

writing. So I don't even try. When

4:56

I first had to transcribe the books

4:59

from recordings I knew more because I

5:01

was having to listen so carefully. And

5:03

now somebody else gets to do that which is fine by

5:05

me. Paul

5:07

I mean when we first when our first

5:10

conversation happened I was fascinated with your kind

5:12

of reluctant channel energy that you have. You're

5:14

just kind of like this is

5:16

what I do. This is my life

5:18

now. I kind of asked for it

5:22

in that kind of way. And it's been it's

5:24

been years now. How long you've been channeling the guides.

5:27

They began dictating books through me

5:31

in 2009 but I've been working with them

5:33

since I was in my I

5:35

would say early 30s. So it's a

5:37

long time. It's 30 years of doing

5:40

this kind of work. But

5:42

it really developed how I work now

5:44

is completely different than how it started.

5:46

When I started I was hearing fragments

5:49

of information for other people or I

5:51

was hearing instructions for working with energy

5:54

and I was really developed. I

5:56

think by them through my continued

5:59

willingness to. keep showing up for this stuff because

6:02

nobody knew that I was doing it. I had a small

6:04

group and that was it. I mean, I wasn't looking to

6:06

be known. That's the

6:08

thing. You're, you're, you're very similar to me in

6:11

that manner. Cause I truly, if I could be

6:13

anonymous, I will. I'm sure if you could be

6:15

anonymous, you would. Um, because

6:17

it's just not, I don't search

6:19

for the spotlight. I don't think you search for the spotlight,

6:21

but we do it as part of our work and we've

6:23

agreed to do so. Um, and

6:26

I think that's probably best because if

6:28

you get too caught up in the spotlight

6:30

or looking for it, it becomes dangerous. I

6:32

agree. You know, the very first group

6:34

that I, when I, when I first knew I was

6:37

going to do a group and the guide said,

6:39

you know, yes, do it. And they said, and

6:41

don't advertise. And I

6:43

went, okay. And then people started showing up that I had

6:45

known on the street and suddenly I had a full apartment

6:47

full of people. And this was, you know, when I was

6:49

maybe 32 years old and it

6:52

was really about letting the work

6:54

itself be primary, not Paul being

6:56

known for the work. I

6:58

mean, I think of myself as a radio, you

7:00

know, and I, I hold a broadcast and, and

7:03

that's really it. So, you know, my, my name

7:05

goes on the cover of these things, but I

7:07

didn't write them and I don't feel, I

7:10

don't feel that kind of pride

7:13

around these things. How

7:16

do you, how do you still, you

7:18

know, I mean, you've been doing this for 30 years now. Um,

7:22

do you see yourself doing this moving

7:24

forward for the rest of your life, this kind of work, or

7:26

is there going to be a point where you go, I

7:30

think I'm good. I've done what I needed to do. I

7:33

don't know. I really don't know. I, I enjoy

7:36

the work. I don't

7:38

understand the work. It doesn't

7:40

feel resolved for me. In

7:42

what sense? Like, well, I, I, I don't

7:45

know where it's going. I don't

7:47

feel that I'm an enlightened being, you know,

7:49

I, I'm growing enormously

7:51

through this process. I'm a very different

7:53

man than I used to be in

7:55

many, many ways. And I'm, I'm

7:58

grateful for that, but I'm still,

8:00

curious to know what's next. And

8:03

the interesting thing about how they teach

8:05

is they're always building on

8:08

their teaching. So when they said, you know,

8:10

there's two more books coming, at

8:12

least that I know of, they actually said

8:14

three. Two would be channeled and one they

8:17

want me to work on, which is basically

8:19

a book about

8:21

all the books. So sort of deconstructing the

8:23

teaching over a series of chapters. So you

8:25

can read the book and say this is

8:28

what they're talking about in these texts. And

8:30

they want you to write that. I hope

8:32

they're gonna help because I haven't read them.

8:35

I haven't read them. I mean I've read some of them,

8:37

you know, but I don't go back and study the books

8:39

like some people do. And I have

8:41

a good retention of the overall themes

8:43

because the themes are consistent and

8:46

how they're broken down in the text really

8:48

is a progression.

8:50

You know, they take their students through

8:53

a way

8:55

of becoming aware to them of themselves and

8:57

energy in a way that I think doesn't,

8:59

you know, blow them out into the stratosphere.

9:02

What I find fascinating, and I always tell people

9:04

that if people always ask me about channeling, is

9:06

it real, is it not? And you're one of

9:09

the greatest doubters or were at this kind of

9:11

stuff. You're a very grounded human being. And you

9:13

still, even to me, you're like, this is, I

9:15

mean, it's ridiculous that I'm doing this, but it

9:17

is what it is. I find

9:21

it fascinating that you still are

9:25

rolling with this in the way that you are,

9:27

but I also find fascinating that you just said

9:29

that you're not an enlightened being.

9:32

So many people throughout

9:35

history, anytime that there's a prophet

9:37

or someone like that that comes down

9:40

the road that's giving

9:42

you knowledge, they become idols. People

9:44

idolize them. I know that you

9:46

have done everything to stamp that

9:48

out as much as possible. And

9:51

believe it or not, even in my world, people

9:53

have tried to start it to like, you know, talk about

9:56

that with me. I'm like, no, no, no, no guys, please.

10:00

going through this process, are you,

10:02

I mean you've obviously said

10:04

you've changed person, have you evolved spiritually

10:06

at all through this process? And where

10:09

you, I mean, literally vibrationally,

10:11

frequency wise? I'm sure I have. I

10:13

mean that I don't question, you know,

10:15

my abilities have changed and

10:18

I don't think of the abilities

10:20

necessarily as proof of enlightenment,

10:23

you know. I think some people are built

10:25

a little differently and I have an energy

10:27

system that's been developed through a long period

10:29

of agreement to this, but

10:32

I don't, you know, I don't fear the way

10:35

that I used to. I used to be terribly,

10:37

terribly fearful. I worry still, you know, I'm a

10:39

worrier. I taught myself to worry when I was

10:41

seven because I wanted lions in my forehead like

10:43

my father had. At 20. That was

10:46

when I was seven, I wanted lions in my forehead

10:48

and I was worrying ever since, but

10:50

I have a

10:52

life right now that I didn't know I could

10:54

have and I would not have known to ask

10:56

for. Same here. I wouldn't have known it was

10:58

even on the menu of what I could allow.

11:00

You know, I was a college teacher for

11:02

25 years and I

11:04

was doing this work quietly and

11:07

it wasn't until the first book was

11:09

published and I realized my

11:11

name was going to go on the cover that

11:13

I had to kind of come out and sort

11:15

of say, well this is what I'm doing. We'll

11:19

be right back after a word from our sponsor.

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now back to the show. So

13:15

the process of being in

13:18

this work itself has been

13:20

an education. And that's,

13:22

you know, the energy field that I work

13:24

with, you know, is able to serve as

13:26

a conductor to other people.

13:28

So the groups that I do and the workshops

13:30

that I do are actually, I think,

13:33

less about the information that the guides are

13:35

dictating than the energy that accompanies them, which

13:37

is really palpable and usually

13:39

kind of enormous. And that's exciting

13:41

for me to be part of that. Do

13:44

you think that your role in this

13:46

life as a soul plan was

13:49

not only to do this work, it's an obvious thing

13:51

to do this work, but it is to help you

13:54

evolve in a way spiritually as a

13:56

soul that not only

16:00

myself protected in some ways

16:02

from the sensitivity. And

16:04

it's been a process for me to allow that

16:07

and to become friends with that and to see

16:09

it as an ally. The work that I do both

16:13

as a channel and a psychic really does

16:15

involve my stepping into people and feeling what

16:17

they're feeling and then hearing them, you know,

16:19

not only the guides. I'm a radio station

16:22

for the guides, you know, they're what I

16:24

play, but when I work with other people

16:26

I'm tuning into them at other levels as

16:28

well. And so the sensitivity

16:30

is useful and my energy

16:32

field I suspect has been developed in

16:35

order to do this. Did

16:37

I come for this work? Probably,

16:39

you know, I had, you

16:41

know, because I've been writing about my life lately

16:43

and trying to understand some of it and really

16:47

trying to understand some of this passage

16:50

because I was not, you

16:52

know, I was raised pretty much an atheist

16:54

and but I had a visitation

16:57

when I was about five years old. I

16:59

had an out-of-body experience that I never forgot

17:02

with a being that was hovering over my

17:04

bed that I pretty much at this point

17:06

think was the primary guide that

17:08

I work with. And I think,

17:10

and I was, and it was funny because I was

17:12

watching, I was watching this being next to me. And

17:15

at the same time I was then up on the

17:17

ceiling watching my body in the bed having the conversation.

17:20

And, you know, in my childhood

17:23

wasn't fun. It wasn't easy. And in some

17:25

ways I think I was given

17:27

a little maybe

17:29

push saying, you know, stick with this,

17:31

whatever it is. But the idea

17:33

of God or whatever that might be, I suspect

17:37

it was a longing that I had when

17:40

I, in my life, but I was somebody who grew up

17:42

in a household where you weren't sort of supposed to have

17:44

that. We didn't believe in those things. And

17:46

then once it was there, it was there. And

17:49

once it showed up, it kind of didn't go

17:51

away, although my relationship to it has changed. Now,

17:54

one thing I wanted to talk to you about today, maybe

17:57

we can bring the guides in if they so

17:59

feel like coming in. today is

18:01

this kind of spiritual battle

18:03

that's going on right now for humanities

18:07

frequency for lack of a better word but more

18:09

dramatic their soul. Humanity soul there seems to

18:12

be dark energies that are trying to hold

18:14

on to what was what

18:16

was and what they're comfortable and

18:19

there's another lighter energy that's trying

18:21

to push us to the next shift. What

18:23

do you what do the guides have to

18:25

say about this kind of spiritual battle for

18:27

humanity? Well they don't. They don't talk about

18:29

it at all. They don't talk about a

18:31

battle. Okay. And I think you know because

18:34

when we do that we move back

18:36

into this idea of separation and division

18:39

which is not what they talk about.

18:41

Okay. At all. Okay. I do think

18:43

that there's a massive change occurring and

18:46

how and the

18:49

resistance to the change is what you're

18:51

really speaking to. Correct. And that's real

18:53

but the personality structure the guides say

18:56

who we think we are and this

18:58

is individually and collectively knows itself entirely

19:00

through a lens

19:03

of separation which is how we've experienced everything.

19:05

The guides I work with say you know

19:07

your idea of history and your idea of

19:09

who you are is based

19:11

in a false concept that you

19:14

are separate from source. Right. And

19:16

so that's how we've operated and

19:19

the personality self knows itself entirely

19:21

through historical data. What

19:23

was what's been so they

19:26

say we've been at war for so long

19:28

that we cannot imagine a world without one.

19:31

And I think that the danger

19:33

perhaps is overlaying that

19:36

on spirit as well

19:39

and looking for the fight. I

19:41

don't know that it's a fight. I think as

19:44

much as anything else is a choice. What I

19:46

hear is everything is changing and

19:48

everything that's had its basis in

19:50

fear which is separation you

19:52

know you can call whatever you want. That's

19:55

going to have to be addressed. So

19:58

the paradigm of war they just lectured. on

20:00

war for a full day yesterday,

20:02

you know, in this class that I

20:04

was in. And about our

20:06

reliance on separation and our need to

20:08

be right and our need to justify.

20:11

But to go back to what you were saying, when

20:13

the very first book was dictated, which was I Am

20:16

The Word, the very first book

20:18

signing I did, which was in the old Bodhi Tree

20:20

bookstore in LA and there were like five people there, nobody

20:22

knew who I was and I'd never done a book

20:24

signing. And I read a

20:26

little from the book and there's women in the

20:28

first row, one of the fives raised her hand

20:30

and said, oh, this sounds like what the Galactic

20:32

Federation of so and so were saying and what

20:34

do your guides say about those evil aliens? And

20:38

what was funny because they hadn't been, I

20:40

wasn't channeling. But the guys

20:42

jumped right in and they said, isn't it bad enough

20:44

that you can't get along here? You

20:47

have to vilify the rest of the universe. So

20:49

we have to stop projecting a paradigm,

20:52

I think, because then we end up back

20:54

in this black and white right and wrong

20:56

thing and then nobody wins. I don't think

20:59

anybody wins. So if

21:01

you can get to the place

21:03

where you can realize the inherent

21:05

divine, the inherent divine, that much

21:07

must always be there and already

21:09

be there. That's when things

21:12

change. The guides say what

21:14

you damn, damns your back. What you put in

21:16

darkness or who you put in darkness calls you

21:18

to the darkness. And I think that can be

21:20

true with any kind of tribalism, even with the

21:22

good people and the bad people and what we

21:24

want to think in those terms. So

21:27

I don't think that things change that way. They

21:29

guides have said, we have been

21:31

at war since somebody picked up the first

21:33

rock and through it, you know,

21:35

we've been doing this and we've been doing it for

21:37

so long that we assume

21:40

it's always going to be there. And

21:43

in this lecture yesterday, they used this new metaphor,

21:46

I'd never heard it before, they said, imagine you're

21:48

in a room with a big painting hung on

21:50

the wall and it's extraordinary violence. And

21:52

no matter what you're doing in the room, your

21:55

experience in that room is informed

21:57

by that picture, even if

21:59

you're trying to. to ignore it, it is there. And

22:02

they say pretty much that is the world that

22:04

you've been living in. Until

22:06

we collectively move to a

22:09

level of consciousness where

22:11

war is not an option, we're gonna have it.

22:14

Because war finally is an idea

22:16

that's been enacted. And

22:19

because we've always had it, we

22:21

think it's supposed to be there. And that

22:23

goes back to the thing the guy had

22:26

said about the personality self knows itself through

22:28

history. We can't imagine a world without war

22:30

really, because we think of war,

22:32

we think of peace as not fighting for

22:35

a little while. So fighting is still part of the

22:37

equation, the picture is still hanging on the wall. So

22:40

they're talking about how we are

22:42

all lifting to a level of

22:45

consciousness where this has changed, it's

22:47

altered. When war is no longer

22:49

an option, we're not gonna seek

22:52

to justify it or find ways to create

22:55

with that or get what we want from it.

22:58

They got a lot of opinions on this stuff. We'll

23:01

be right back after a word from our sponsor.

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24:23

now back to the show. So

24:26

when it goes to a battle between light and

24:29

dark, that's not how they

24:31

talk about it. They don't talk about things

24:33

in absolutes that way. They

24:36

talk about things as ingradation. They do

24:38

talk about evil, which they talk about

24:40

as being the intent to do harm, which is

24:44

a very simple definition. But for the most part,

24:47

our biggest problem, they say, is

24:49

our denial of the inherent divide. And

24:52

I'm stressing the word inherent because they say,

24:54

you can't make anything holy. It already is.

24:57

But you can deny the divine in anything. And

25:00

we do when we have. So

25:02

they've kind of said, and you can shut me up

25:04

if I'm going on. Oh, please. They

25:06

say, it's kind of like we're all born into

25:08

a swimming pool that somebody peed in before

25:11

we got here. That's why I love the guides.

25:14

No, but it's like that's how we know our world.

25:18

We don't know anything other than what

25:20

we've had. So

25:23

is there is it kind of like you, you just said a little

25:25

bit ago that you couldn't conceive of the life that you live.

25:28

I couldn't conceive the life that

25:31

I'm living right now. Is

25:33

it the case that humanity cannot conceive of

25:35

a life that is without war? Not

25:39

we're quiet for a while, but without war, where

25:41

we're peaceful, where we cooperate, where we all connect

25:43

to the divine and understand that's inherent

25:46

in life. That's

25:49

rudimentary. They

25:51

say, yes, that's what will be happening. I

25:54

don't think that this is

25:56

some rainbows and unicorns. kind

26:00

of scenario. I really don't. I mean,

26:03

I'll give you an odd example because I was

26:06

doing a five-day

26:08

thing out on Maui recently

26:10

where I live. It was a big retreat. And

26:13

the gods started talking about how

26:17

our idea of God is

26:20

wrong-minded. And any idea

26:22

of God finally is wrong-minded is the best

26:25

that we can do, given

26:27

where we come from. But we're still informing

26:30

the idea of God as a loving God,

26:32

a punishing God, a God that's going to

26:34

smite those people, send these ones to hell,

26:36

all of those things. And so

26:38

the idea was of moving to

26:42

what exists beyond that idea that

26:44

we've created, our idea of source

26:47

or God, to what is

26:49

actually already there. And they say, it is. It's just,

26:51

it is. It is, it is, it is, it

26:53

is. And they talked

26:56

about how we inform everything with meaning.

26:58

And everything that we see has the

27:00

meaning that was primarily given to it

27:02

by those who came before us. This

27:05

is a good thing. This is a

27:07

bad thing. This is a fine watch.

27:09

That's a crappy watch. They both tell

27:12

time, but we invest in the meaning.

27:14

And I had an experience after

27:17

that lecture I

27:20

was walking around and everything

27:22

just was. And

27:24

the meaning wasn't attached to

27:27

it. This is a

27:29

beautiful day. It was a day. It was beautiful,

27:32

but everything was what it was.

27:34

It just was. And here was the

27:36

really trippy part for me. I

27:39

got it that it was all source.

27:42

It was all God, you know, in

27:44

different levels of expression. You know, that

27:46

God's have said there is one note

27:48

sung in the entire universe

27:51

that is in manifestation as all things.

27:54

And all of these things are operating at

27:56

different levels of tone or vibration in a

27:58

scale. So when they

28:00

When we talk about evil or, you know,

28:02

the dark forces or whatever that is, we're

28:04

talking low vibration. And

28:06

then you can go to the higher. Now we're

28:09

the ones who decide what is good and what

28:11

is bad for the most part. What's good to

28:13

you and I may be bad to somebody watching

28:15

this show who doesn't believe in any of this

28:17

stuff. Right. You know, and

28:19

that's perfectly fine. It's subjective, I suppose.

28:22

And when you think of

28:25

reality as an octave

28:27

of tone, and that's how

28:30

they describe it, high notes and low notes,

28:32

and they're all being played and they're chords

28:34

and they're things and they're things that we

28:36

see, it's only one octave. They

28:39

say that when you move up in vibration

28:41

to what they call the next octave, they

28:43

call it the upper room. That's how they

28:45

describe it. Fear

28:48

is not operative there at that level

28:51

of tone. And

28:53

so you're not spiritually bypassing and

28:55

pretending something bad didn't happen or

28:57

hard didn't happen, but you're beginning

28:59

to have an experience of yourself

29:01

without the mandate of fear to

29:04

be what confirms

29:06

or informs one's choices. And

29:09

we're doing that all the time without even

29:12

knowing it, I suspect. And then

29:14

the world, I think, has changed. And

29:16

so that's how they teach this.

29:19

The battle stuff, the challenge with

29:21

even the term spiritual warrior that

29:23

people like to bandy about is

29:25

that you've got to be looking

29:27

for the problem. You

29:29

can't have a warrior without a war. That's pretty much

29:31

it. And so you're going to find one. So

29:34

I think that there are ways

29:36

of addressing the things that are

29:38

hard and challenging, and

29:40

you can call them war and poverty and

29:43

systems of control, whatever they may be.

29:46

And I think that's all happening now. And

29:48

it's been happening. And I think it continues

29:50

to happen. When

29:53

the guides dictated a book called The

29:55

Book of Truth, which I think

29:57

it was right before the – the

30:00

Trump Clinton election at this time. And they

30:02

said right before, in that book, and they

30:04

said, okay,

30:06

what's about to happen now is that

30:08

everything that's been buried is going to

30:10

be revealed. It's gonna

30:13

be a process of exhumation. I mean, this is dated,

30:15

so it's right before a lot of things happened, including

30:18

a lot of movements and a lot

30:20

of awakening to past, you

30:22

know, traumas. And they

30:24

said, but if you imagine, and this is happening

30:26

at the individual level and at the level of the

30:29

collective as well, is that if

30:31

you imagine your backyard is suddenly

30:33

an archeological dig, and

30:35

things are being exhumed from five years ago and

30:38

5,000 years ago or 50, it's

30:41

gonna look like a mess. And

30:44

they said the purpose of

30:46

this exhumation is

30:48

not to blame and not to

30:50

rage, it's to see, because

30:53

nothing is healed or brought to the

30:55

light until it is first seen. And

30:58

the idea of seeing something without

31:00

informing it with the edicts of

31:02

a particular culture or religion or

31:05

doctrine is seeing in truth. Now,

31:08

the guides say we think of truth

31:10

as my personal truth, her personal truth

31:13

and truth as being subjective, but they

31:15

say what is true is always true.

31:18

And that's what brings you back to the idea

31:20

of source or the one note song, where you

31:22

can see the inherent divine in

31:24

what was created in distortion or

31:26

fear or anger, you can

31:28

actually shift the thing to

31:31

begin to operate at a higher tone. And

31:33

you were saying that you were looking at a day,

31:37

you were in a day and it was a beautiful day to your point of

31:39

view, but for me, sometimes

31:42

a sunny day is nice,

31:44

but it could be hot. I sometimes

31:46

like overcast days, where the

31:48

weather is nice, but it all depends on the point

31:51

of view, people's preferences

31:53

and also their programming that they grew up

31:55

with. But this was different. You see, this

31:57

wasn't about that. That's what was so different

31:59

about it. It just was. It

32:02

was just a day. No, it just... How

32:05

do you explain it? I can say this to you, okay?

32:07

So I'm sitting here with Alex, who I like and I

32:09

have history with, and I'm sitting in the studio, and I'm

32:12

thinking about what we're doing, and that's one

32:15

level of my being engaged. On

32:17

another level, and I'm not going to say this well,

32:19

they might have to come in and explain what I'm

32:21

trying to say. We're just

32:23

being here. Oh, we're in

32:25

the moment. Okay, we are, but we're being here without

32:29

the meanings that I would attach to things,

32:31

like I like your sweater or all that

32:33

stuff. It

32:36

just was. And for me,

32:38

the only experience that was so different was I

32:41

got it in some level, what they were

32:43

talking about, about how things have been... They

32:48

say we're operating in a museum. Everything

32:51

that we encounter was named by those who came

32:53

before us and has the meaning

32:55

that the culture has given it. And

32:58

so we end up without intending to

33:01

replicate the old stuff, always,

33:03

including how we fight and how we

33:05

solve things. So you go

33:07

to this other level. You see the divine self,

33:09

what they call the monad of the God within.

33:12

The monad does not know itself

33:14

through historical data. It

33:17

is not bound by time and space.

33:19

So the claim that the guides work

33:21

with in their teachings, behold, I make

33:23

all things new is the realization of

33:26

what actually is outside

33:28

of how it's been decided

33:32

upon by those who came before us or what

33:34

we think it's supposed to be. It's a very

33:36

different way of being in an experience. It's

33:40

very interesting, the way you look at

33:42

that, with the wars that

33:44

are going on right now and this

33:46

old way of looking at things. I

33:48

love the idea that you're saying that

33:50

everything that we've touched, this is

33:52

called a book. Because someone called

33:54

it a book. In

33:57

our culture. In our culture. But,

34:02

and this is not a great example, but a lot

34:04

of the things that like what's going

34:06

on in some of these wars, those are

34:08

thousands, some of them are thousands of years

34:10

old, these arguments fighting

34:12

over a patch of land that said,

34:14

I did this or I did that and that's mine, no,

34:16

that's mine. No, what really happened was here. It's our land,

34:19

that's your land, all that kind of stuff. We'll

34:22

be right back after a word from our sponsor.

34:27

Some people just know the best rate for

34:29

you is a rate based on you with

34:31

Allstate. Not a rate based on

34:33

Terry who keeps and

34:35

makes the car behind them. Oh

34:38

no, they're about to... Save

34:42

with DriveWise and the Allstate app and only pay

34:44

a rate based on you. And

34:59

now back to the show. And

35:03

generationally they wake up and their

35:05

kids are told that guy's

35:07

bad, we're good, they did

35:09

this, this and this, but they never experienced any of

35:12

it. And then it

35:14

just kind of, it's a self-fulfilling

35:16

prophecy because eventually you have someone change for that

35:18

person on the other side. One

35:20

day they're going to do something like, hi dad, that's

35:22

what they were talking about. And it's just kind of

35:24

this vicious circle. We're trying to pull out

35:26

of it, but it seems like it's going to take a minute. I

35:29

think it's going to take a minute. And the

35:31

guides have said, we can learn if we

35:33

want to the futility of war by

35:36

fighting until there's nobody left standing. We can do that

35:38

if we want to. They say it's not going to

35:41

happen. And this is what they say that gives me

35:43

hope. They say humanity

35:45

has decided at a higher level, at

35:47

a collective level, that we're going

35:49

to move beyond this and that we have

35:51

to do this in some ways for our

35:54

survival as a species. And

35:56

the species they say is shifting.

35:58

We're going into this whole. other

36:00

level of experience.

36:03

And it sounds far out. But

36:05

when I, and this isn't to

36:07

make myself special because I don't experience

36:09

that, but things that are very

36:12

ordinary to me now in terms of how

36:14

I hear and

36:16

feel and utilize my

36:18

senses are things that I were

36:21

told were impossible when I

36:23

was growing up. And I'm not that

36:25

special, you know, and because we all

36:28

have capacity for this. And

36:30

I think part of what allows for

36:32

this is our

36:35

willingness to trust. And

36:37

ideally, I suppose trust in

36:40

something greater, something higher, something beyond the

36:42

personality that wants to get its way

36:45

no matter what. One

36:47

of the first things that I heard in channeling, and I

36:49

always have to say I'm 99% sure that I heard it

36:51

in channel because I wrote it down in a piece of

36:53

paper because I didn't understand it. And I was having a

36:55

hard time when I heard it. And

36:57

I heard freedom will come or

36:59

freedom comes when the throne relinquishes

37:02

its king. And I

37:04

thought, what the hell does that mean? And now I

37:06

totally get what it means. Who's running the show? What

37:09

aspect of self? Is it the

37:11

self that knows, truly knows, and

37:13

they say knows means realizes

37:17

that everybody is of source. Or

37:20

is it the one that says off with their heads,

37:22

or I have to get my way at the

37:24

cost of it, that there's not enough and I

37:26

better grab it. You know, borders are ideas. That's

37:30

what they're just. And they're just ideas that

37:32

have been concretized in form. When you look

37:34

at a space from out of space, you

37:36

look at there, they're not there. There's no

37:39

big lines. Nope, nope, nope, nope. And

37:41

a country is an idea, you know,

37:43

and you know, all of the everything

37:46

that guys say everything was first idea.

37:48

And when you go back to the first

37:50

idea, and you go to source, so what

37:53

allows for that idea to be enacted, or

37:55

made into form, then you go back to

37:57

the source of all things. And

37:59

that's when things change. That's really the

38:01

alchemy that occurs, not by

38:04

trying to fix or stamp out

38:06

or eradicate or justify or

38:08

fight or blame. It's actually

38:11

coming from a different level of consciousness, which

38:13

is how the guides say they say that's

38:15

how a world is made new. That's their

38:17

teaching. You know, one thing

38:19

I find fascinating about, I mean, I have the

38:21

opportunity to speak to people like you and probably

38:24

more so than most people have access

38:26

to people who are on their

38:29

spiritual path or have abilities like Psychics or

38:31

Channels and things like that. This

38:34

concept of the spiritual ego is

38:37

really interesting, especially in the work that that you

38:39

do and even in the work that I'm

38:41

doing, where, you

38:44

know, someone like yourself who has a

38:46

channel, who channels, you know, profound wisdom

38:49

through these guides could

38:51

very easily become

38:53

egotistical about it to me, it's me, it's

38:55

me. That's one level. That's

38:57

the really out front level, easy,

39:00

low hanging fruit level. Now, the deeper,

39:03

more dangerous level is when

39:05

someone is going through awakenings

39:07

or are starting to get certain

39:10

abilities, start to see things a little different, maybe

39:12

through meditation, maybe through gifts that have been something

39:14

like that. They'll start

39:17

throwing spiritual terms on

39:19

things that shouldn't have spiritual

39:21

terms, kind of like, oh,

39:24

that leaf fell, it's a

39:26

sign. And you start

39:28

to build your own

39:30

storyline and the ego, because the ego is very

39:32

tricky that way. The ego will come in and

39:34

go, oh, so we're spirit. Okay, well, we're going

39:36

to be the most spiritual then. If we're going

39:38

to go down this road, is that the mask

39:40

we're wearing? Okay, we got to take

39:42

it up. And I'm sure you've run into a

39:45

few of them. A lot of it. I mean,

39:47

and I run into it all the time. I

39:49

live on Maui where everybody's a shaman. Obviously. It's

39:51

part of the culture. It's funny when you were

39:53

saying this, I remembered, I'm an old 12 stepper.

39:55

I got sober when I was 25, so it's

39:58

the 37

40:00

years now, but I remember

40:02

at the beginning the magical thinking

40:05

because for me, you know,

40:07

oh my god, there is a God and oh my

40:09

god, what does that mean? And I remember hearing people

40:11

say, I was driving here and every light turned green

40:13

and that means I was supposed to be here. And

40:15

I think, well, maybe you just hit the lights at

40:17

the right time. But I

40:19

understood the need to sort of

40:22

justify and verify that experience. And I

40:24

actually think it's a stage of development.

40:27

I think it's something that people pass through. And

40:30

the good news is at least they're onto something.

40:32

I mean, if you think that

40:34

your spirituality is your crystal collection,

40:37

you know, eventually you'll hopefully realize that that's

40:39

not the case, that those are tools that

40:42

people can use, but that's just, it's what

40:44

they are. People

40:46

I think can easily get caught

40:48

up in the fashion or the

40:50

jargon of spirituality. Or the mask,

40:52

the costume. The mask and the

40:54

costume, that's big stuff. And

40:58

I'm a bit of a curmudgeon around

41:00

this, I'm afraid. And I, you know,

41:02

because I, well, it's true though, but

41:04

not, and

41:07

some of it comes from a place

41:09

of compassion and having lived through it,

41:12

you know, when I was waking up

41:14

to this, everything

41:16

was exotic and sexy and oh my god, and

41:18

I'm the paranormal, oh my god, I wanted it

41:20

all and I wanted it all badly

41:23

and I wanted it all sincerely.

41:27

You know, I came into this stuff

41:30

in a period of crisis, you know, I had

41:32

been raised an atheist and I was in this

41:34

hotel room in St. Paul and I didn't know

41:36

where to get drugs in St. Paul and there

41:39

was a giant gopher on a spit outside my

41:41

window in the Gopher campus motor lodge and it

41:43

was awful, awful, awful. So surreal. It was crazy

41:45

and the Gidians leave these books in the drawer

41:47

and I took it out. It's

41:49

a prayer for people in crisis. I

41:52

actually got on my knees because I thought that's how you were supposed

41:55

to do it. And I said it and

41:57

I meant it and then three days. And

42:00

then, two days later, I heard a

42:02

voice. When I asked, what can I

42:04

do for myself today that's positive, and I heard a

42:06

voice, and it told me what to do, and

42:09

I went back. And I'm sure you were like,

42:11

this is completely normal, I'm completely fine with this.

42:13

No, but no, it wasn't a voice in the

42:15

room. No, no, but in your head. It was

42:17

a voice, the thing about the voice, which

42:20

is still true when I channel, and I

42:23

don't know if these were the same guides or some

42:25

aspect of me that knew, but there

42:27

was no way to doubt the truth of

42:29

what I heard. And

42:32

the guides say, you

42:34

know, the difference between

42:36

thinking and knowing is that there's

42:39

never a question. And knowing and divine

42:41

knowing or true knowing, which is really

42:43

clear cognizance, there's never a question. And

42:45

when you have those moments of true

42:48

knowing, pretty much you're

42:50

being asked to act upon that

42:53

thought. So how

42:57

did I go there? I mean, that was how

42:59

I started, I know, because for me, at that

43:02

time, it wasn't fashion, I mean, it was, it

43:04

was the old new age, Shirley MacLaine new age,

43:06

1987, you know, she was on

43:09

the cover of Time magazine. No one's talking

43:11

channeling back in 87, not really. There

43:14

was Seth books. I had read half a Seth book when

43:16

I was a graduate student. I was at Yale, I used

43:18

to get drunk and read half a Seth book, and that

43:20

was it, you know? And

43:23

I thought it was fascinating, but

43:25

I, and I think it really did affect me,

43:28

but I didn't spend a lot of time

43:30

dwelling on it and I wasn't hunting things

43:32

out. For me, and

43:34

for many, many people, when

43:39

this becomes inevitable, is

43:41

when you go, or when you answer a

43:44

call. And the good news is, I think,

43:47

the people being born now are

43:49

being born now with more innate

43:52

awareness and, you know,

43:54

more, and it gives me great hope. And

43:57

I, because I taught college for so, so

43:59

many years, I've, I watched generationally

44:02

how the kids showed up. And right before

44:04

I stopped teaching at NYU, which was maybe

44:06

nine years ago or something, some

44:10

kid on the stage in a class that I

44:12

was teaching dropped his folder of papers. 100 pages

44:14

fell all over the stage. And all the kids

44:16

in the front row without saying a word got

44:19

up and picked the papers up and handed him

44:21

back. I was like, what?

44:23

Oh yeah, that's in an 80s movie.

44:25

They would have just been like, a

44:28

nerd, all that kind of stuff. Pretty much,

44:30

but it was a whole different consciousness. And

44:33

nobody talked to each other. They just showed

44:35

up and did the right thing. We'll

44:39

be right back after a word from our sponsor.

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Insurance Company in affiliates Northbrook, Illinois. And

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now back to the show. And

45:18

I was very moved and it gave me great hope

45:21

and I actually still have it. So,

45:23

I don't think it has to be

45:25

that hard, but I think all the

45:30

mask stuff fades away in time. If

45:32

you stick with it, or if you just wanna

45:34

stay in the costume, the costume is gonna kill you in time.

45:37

There's no doubt about it. Even when I was going

45:39

through my journey throughout in

45:42

spirituality way years before I even

45:44

started this conversation, there

45:46

would be those moments where you're like, oh, I

45:49

know this information, so I must be better than

45:51

you. Those kind of

45:53

things. I've read this

45:55

book, so, oh, you haven't? Oh, you poor soul.

45:58

These kind of things. It's just

46:00

such a trap, but you're right. It will crush

46:02

you eventually. Well, or you'll move through it. Or

46:04

you'll move, if you don't move through it, it

46:07

will crush you. I don't, you know, I didn't

46:09

know Ram Dass. His community on

46:11

Maui are my friends. Sure. And

46:13

I spend time with him. And I had one kid who used

46:15

to plug in a Ram Dass lecture every time I got into

46:17

the car with him because he wanted me to know the teachings.

46:20

But there was this one lecture that I did hear that I

46:22

loved all of it actually. I thought it was all, I thought,

46:24

oh God, this is like what the guys are saying. It's just

46:27

funnier and it's easier to understand. He was funny,

46:29

he was funny. But it was this teaching about

46:31

how, you know, when everybody first

46:33

would get spiritual, I guess he probably delivered

46:35

this in the 70s or something and everybody's

46:37

wearing white and namaste this, namaste that. And

46:39

then he said, you run into that person

46:41

two years later in a bar and they're

46:43

saying, what the was all that crap about?

46:45

What was I thinking? And what Ram Dass

46:47

said was that person's still on the path.

46:50

Just looks different. Like once you're on it, you're

46:52

not off it. And I gotta

46:55

say that's been true for me.

46:57

And I think true for many people, but

46:59

it doesn't have to look a certain way.

47:01

That's just, that's the ego too. Well, when

47:03

I think channeler, this outfit

47:05

obviously is high spiritual channelers.

47:07

This is the outfit I think.

47:10

No, you walk around looking normal

47:12

completely. Well,

47:15

I, you know, I'm not saying that I'm normal, but

47:17

I'm as normal as one can get, I suppose doing

47:19

what I do. Right,

47:22

but you're not wearing white and

47:24

chanting and things like that. You

47:26

know, I go to Kirtan and chant with my

47:28

friends, but mostly because they're my friends. Right, but

47:30

not walking around day to day. No, I couldn't,

47:33

I could care less. But

47:35

it doesn't get me anything. And all it gets,

47:37

if it gets you anything, it probably gets you

47:39

trouble. You know, I can't

47:41

imagine, I don't

47:44

know. I mean, I'm not one of those people

47:46

who has a photographer following around for Instagram. I

47:48

just feel, it's. Oh my

47:50

God, I would love to see your Instagram. I

47:53

have one, it's perfectly fine. I would like to see

47:55

you like, so this is what I'm eating

47:57

today. Look at this. holding

48:00

up a crystal to the light. The

48:02

light should, do you see the

48:04

beams? That's the guide. But you

48:06

know, maybe that's a place people have to go

48:08

to. And I think that there's

48:11

a lot of stuff that passes for channeling, but I

48:13

don't think is channeling, you know, that like people would

48:15

like to call channeling, which I think is mostly

48:19

ego, you know, and something is very

48:21

well intentioned. And some of it is

48:23

just somebody trying to do

48:26

a cool thing. You

48:28

know, but even that, it's not

48:31

for me to judge about this stuff. It's

48:33

their path. Yeah, it is their path. It's

48:35

their path. And speaking of people's

48:37

paths, you know, I ran into someone the other

48:39

day that was pretty,

48:41

pretty remarkable. I ran

48:44

into somebody who was so locked

48:47

into the story that they were telling themselves.

48:49

We all tell ourselves stories. We all have

48:52

our journey that we're walking in. But her story

48:54

was so concrete and

48:58

anything I said that was even

49:00

remotely contrary to

49:03

what she said or thought or believed,

49:05

she blocked out 110%. Really?

49:07

It was it was pretty like I hadn't, I hadn't

49:10

run into someone like that in a long time. And

49:13

this kind of like this wall of like,

49:15

I absolutely disagree with you. I think you're going

49:18

to go to hell for this kind of stuff

49:20

in a very pleasant way. Yeah. You know, it

49:22

wasn't like an aggressive thing. It was just very,

49:24

and I was just like, wow, because I'm saying,

49:26

you know, there are many paths to to God

49:28

and there's many journeys to go

49:30

there. And and, you know, if

49:32

you know, just because you're born into one, quote

49:35

unquote, philosophy or religion or thoughts, but

49:38

you can't dismiss, you know, four

49:40

or five billion other people that don't believe

49:42

that. Yeah. And

49:44

that's where like, no, it's that older idea

49:47

of like, nope, this is the way

49:49

nothing else is going to happen. And it's not just

49:52

one exact. Yeah. All of them do it. Yeah, I

49:54

agree. From the from the most peace

49:56

loving Buddhists to everybody else. They all

49:58

have it in one way, shape or form. anyways. But

50:01

I found it really fascinating to meet someone

50:03

like that. I haven't talked

50:05

to someone like that. When you run into

50:07

them, into people like this, not

50:09

an aggressive man, not people who are yelling because obviously

50:11

you're a devil and the demons are coming through you.

50:14

But when you get past that, how

50:17

do you deal with that? Or is there

50:19

anything that you can say or that

50:21

guides have to say to help

50:25

that person, ease that person, or even just

50:27

deal with that person in your day to

50:29

day? Because you're not going to change them.

50:31

So what would you say? What would I

50:33

say? I mean, mostly

50:36

I don't have those encounters often

50:38

anymore. I used

50:40

to have, when I was

50:42

new to doing this work publicly and

50:44

people would see me, I had many

50:46

people who would come and, you know,

50:48

sit there with their arms folded and

50:50

go like, yeah, right. And

50:52

it usually wasn't until the

50:55

energy would come in and they could feel it.

50:57

And then they would get startled because they could

51:00

feel it, something was happening. Or

51:02

the psychic stuff where I was able to, because when

51:04

I step into other people, I often start to look

51:06

like them and, you know, I take on the mannerisms

51:08

and stuff. And that

51:10

was shocking because, you know, how would I know how

51:12

their mother drinks their coffee or things like that?

51:14

And they would

51:17

come around some, but people

51:19

who've decided this can't be good or can't

51:21

be true have decided and that's their experience.

51:23

And it's not my place to

51:26

try to change them. I

51:28

don't really care anymore. You

51:30

used to. I cared. I, you

51:32

know, I was, you

51:35

know, I was a chubby bullied kid. You know,

51:37

I cared about what people thought. And

51:40

there's somebody, another psychic said to me once,

51:43

which was interesting. She said, you know, Paul,

51:45

you've had enough public humiliation in

51:47

your life that's actually allowing you to do

51:49

this work now because

51:51

kind of like what else is there to do? And I

51:54

don't want to invite that because there's always something else. But,

51:57

you know, I don't care the way that I did

51:59

because. I don't care if

52:01

people believe in this or not, or think

52:03

this is real or not. It's not my

52:05

problem. You know, I just show up

52:07

for what's in front of me and do the best I can.

52:11

I asked, do I go to the guides, well they just said

52:13

not wise, so they're not gonna take this really on. I just

52:15

heard it, I just heard it, yeah. I'm

52:19

not sure if it's the guides or

52:21

if it's you that discuss humanity's reckoning.

52:23

Oh yeah. Can you explain what that

52:25

term means and what they mean? Yeah,

52:28

it was in the very first book and

52:30

they still talk about it with frequency.

52:33

And I'm the word they said, and this was

52:35

again, 2009

52:38

it was dictated, published in 210. They

52:40

said humanity is at a time of reckoning, and

52:43

a reckoning is a facing of one's

52:45

self and all of

52:47

one's creations. And they

52:50

said everything that's been created in fear

52:52

is going to need to be recreated

52:54

in a higher way, which is really

52:56

what they're teaching now, how that's done,

52:58

how a world is altered through consciousness.

53:02

So the

53:05

systems that we see crashing on around us,

53:08

ever since that Trump Clinton, I

53:10

mean I would agree with you. I think there was signs of

53:13

it earlier, but that's when all

53:15

hell kind of broke loose and all these

53:17

things started to bubble up. I kind

53:20

of never even thought about it anymore. I was like, oh that's

53:22

in the past, and it started to come up. We've

53:24

started to see the crumbling of

53:27

institutions around the world, from

53:29

religious to political to monetary to

53:31

medical, all of it starting to

53:33

crumble. Is that what is

53:35

happening to these older systems

53:37

that they have to kind of either crumble

53:41

in the way they used to be and get

53:43

either, or change or completely just move

53:46

off out of the way, crumble to the ground

53:48

and so something new can come up with this

53:50

new idea of like, perfect example,

53:52

those kids who are picking up those neighbors. I

53:55

mean I suspect both are true. If

53:58

the foundation of a building is good. Like,

54:01

there's nothing wrong with the idea of a

54:03

bank. The guide said the first bank happened

54:05

when some hunter gave his purse

54:07

to somebody to hold while he went off into

54:09

the woods to hunt. Then that was the bank.

54:11

You know, nothing wrong with the idea of it.

54:13

It's what's happened with it since. You

54:16

know, nothing wrong with, I guess, the

54:19

idea of leadership or government or whatever

54:21

you want. Nothing wrong with it

54:23

in its inherent truth. That's what we've done with

54:26

it. So I think if the

54:28

foundation is okay, probably something can be

54:30

worked with. But if the foundation is

54:33

corrupt, probably it doesn't stick around.

54:35

You know, and they've been talking about this

54:37

for a long, long time. And

54:40

there's been—what's interesting about their teachings

54:42

are there's no fear-mongering in their

54:44

teachings, but they're pretty blunt at

54:46

times, which is, you know, but they say,

54:48

you know, these are your creations. People

54:52

in new age

54:54

or spiritual culture tend to think of

54:56

manifestation as getting what they want. How

54:59

do I get what I want? How can I use this to get

55:01

what I want? And I understand

55:03

that. We'll

55:05

be right back after a word from our sponsor.

55:11

And now back to the show. But

55:15

the guides say, you know, everything

55:18

we see and

55:20

are in any kind of an

55:22

encounter with we're in vibrational accord

55:24

to, which means we're

55:26

contributing to it. How

55:29

you think about something contributes to

55:31

the thing itself and

55:33

informs the thing itself. We

55:35

prefer to think of ourselves as victims to

55:37

what we encounter, but in fact, that's not

55:39

the case. So to

55:42

move to a level of accountability to those things,

55:44

how we perceive the government or the bank or

55:46

all those things, that's what can allow change in

55:48

other kinds of ways. Do

55:52

you or the guides—if

55:54

you can explain this to me. And this is my

55:56

belief, and I love to hear what they think, is

55:59

that humanities evolution

56:01

spiritually, consciously, frequency,

56:03

if you will, has, you

56:05

know, our frequencies today's humanity is very different than it

56:07

was 20 years ago, 100 years ago, a thousand years

56:10

ago. And with that

56:13

level of frequency, that

56:15

knowledge is opened

56:17

up, ideas that we're ready for, open

56:20

up when these frequencies get to a certain place,

56:23

why Genghis Khan didn't have the nuclear bomb. If

56:26

not, we will destroy ourselves comfortably at that

56:28

stage in our evolution. Is

56:30

that, first of all, do you agree with that

56:32

idea? I haven't thought about it

56:35

accurately. They're saying accurate. Okay. Not

56:37

quite the way you said it, but it's accurate, but it

56:39

is accurate. Things exist at different levels of tone. Things

56:41

exist at different levels of tone. Ideas are often

56:43

accessed. Ideas are often accessed from the higher field,

56:46

from the higher field, by those who can attend

56:48

to them, by those who can attend to them.

56:50

They're often brought forth, often brought forth, often ignored,

56:52

often ignored, often disputed or refuted, often disputed or

56:55

refuted until humanity catches up to it, until humanity

56:57

catches up to it. You have the ability to

56:59

do so many things. You have the ability to

57:01

do many things before you have the ability to

57:04

make to them so. You

57:07

could always do things, you could always do things

57:09

that you rely on science for now, that you

57:11

rely on science for now, and you've created science.

57:13

And you've created a science that supports your imagination,

57:15

that supports your imagination. What you've never done, what

57:17

you've never done is look at the physical body,

57:20

look at the physical body, and the energetic bodies.

57:22

And the energetic bodies, you're actually able to see

57:24

what you're actually capable of and that is what

57:26

is coming now, and that is the work that

57:28

is coming now, these achievements, these achievements

57:30

which will inform medicine, which will inform medicine

57:32

and commerce, and commerce are already present, are

57:34

already present in the higher field and the

57:36

higher field. Once some of you begin to

57:38

access them, once some of you begin to

57:40

access them, they make themselves available, they make

57:42

themselves available to all. They see the common

57:44

field, they see the common field. Now, the

57:46

common field is the reality, you know. The

57:48

common field is the reality, you know. The

57:52

upper room which we teach is where you

57:54

align to, is where you align to, where

57:56

such things are available, where such things are

57:58

available and paramount, and paramount to creations to

58:00

new creations. We're not sipping the old wine.

58:02

When you were not sipping from the old

58:04

wine, you will discover, you will discover the

58:06

old wine has been bitter, that the old

58:08

wine tasted bitter. When you go to the

58:10

higher, when you go to the higher, what

58:12

seemed obvious in the small self, what seemed

58:14

obvious in the small self, no longer seems

58:16

obvious, no longer seems obvious, something new appears

58:18

and something new then appears, and then appears

58:20

period period period, missing period. So

58:22

then a lot of these avatars

58:25

that come down, or I could

58:27

say down for lack of a better word, but

58:29

that incarnate on earth, that

58:31

came with these teachings, Buddha,

58:33

Jesus, many powerful yogis over

58:35

the years who come up with these teachings.

58:39

There seems to be a pattern, that

58:41

the teachings are not accepted right

58:43

away other than a few. And

58:45

then it takes years and years and years

58:47

before some of these radical ideas.

58:49

I mean, when Jesus was walking, the stuff that

58:51

He was talking about were extremely

58:54

radical, so much so that apparently, he

58:56

got killed and crucified for

58:58

it. But is

59:01

that kind of what happens with all

59:03

new ideas and the big, big monster

59:05

ideas? Generally,

59:08

they come to several people at once or

59:10

several ideas or several ideas are seated around

59:12

the world or seated around the world. And

59:14

are understood through different language, through different language

59:16

or different systems are built up or different

59:18

systems are built up around them. That's why

59:20

you have many religions. That's why you have

59:22

many religions, the truth of each religion. The

59:24

truth of each religion is actually implicit, is

59:26

actually implicit within the structure, and with as

59:28

within the structure that was built around it,

59:30

was built erratically, focus on structure but you

59:32

focus on the structure, not the original idea, not

59:34

the original idea. There is usually not one human

59:36

being, there is usually not one human being to

59:38

carry the message. To carry the message, it's actually

59:41

seated on the plane. It's actually seated on the

59:43

plane and those who can claim it and those

59:45

who can claim it and nurture it and nurture

59:47

it, it we'll sing it, we'll sing it, we'll

59:49

come their song, it will become their song and

59:51

as their song is sung by others and as

59:53

their song is sung by others, the world has

59:55

changed, the world has changed through the presence of

59:57

the song, through the presence of the song. less

1:00:00

so the individual, less so the individual, the

1:00:02

prophet or Messiah, the prophet or Messiah, but

1:00:04

the song that was sung through them, but

1:00:06

the song that was sung through them, period,

1:00:08

period. And it's so true that

1:00:10

there's, if you start looking at

1:00:12

the world religions, great, the

1:00:14

great prophets, many

1:00:17

of them are just saying the same thing

1:00:19

in different flavors. Jesus and

1:00:21

Buddha were talking about a lot of similar ideas,

1:00:25

but it needed to come

1:00:27

into the East, and then there's Hinduism,

1:00:30

and then there's Europe, and then they all

1:00:32

had to come in a certain, in

1:00:35

different packaging, if you will. And

1:00:37

these entities decided to

1:00:40

come back to help us, essentially. They're

1:00:42

saying yes and no, not so to help, not

1:00:44

so to help, but to offer, but to offer

1:00:46

what is already yours, what is already yours. You

1:00:49

have to say yes to what is already yours.

1:00:51

You have to say yes to what is already

1:00:53

yours. I mean, you're not being bequeathed to gift,

1:00:55

or being shown what's already there, you're being shown

1:00:57

what was already there, that you

1:00:59

chose to ignore or fearful of, that you chose to

1:01:01

ignore or were fearful of, period. So

1:01:04

in other words, that they are here to show

1:01:06

us as an example of what is capable of

1:01:08

being done with us in many

1:01:10

ways. We are here

1:01:12

to teach you who you are, and indeed have always been,

1:01:14

and indeed have always been, period. Got

1:01:17

it, and that's the thing that I always try

1:01:19

to talk about, because people, again, see what

1:01:21

you're doing, and they go, oh,

1:01:23

you have to be born special, but we

1:01:25

are all capable of this kind of work,

1:01:29

I'm using you as an example, but we're all, Jesus

1:01:31

said it, everything I could do, you could do. That's

1:01:33

exactly what he said, yeah. And

1:01:37

I think that's a truth in the

1:01:39

teaching that gets buried or

1:01:41

muddled a lot. So

1:01:45

we all have capacity, the God within

1:01:47

me, whatever you wanna call that, the

1:01:49

guides I work with call it the

1:01:51

monad, sometimes they'll call it the Christ

1:01:53

within, or the divine self, or the

1:01:55

true self, there's lots of different names,

1:01:57

they don't care which one we use.

1:02:00

actually the same as it is within you and

1:02:03

within everybody. You know,

1:02:05

the idea of soul as being

1:02:07

particular and having a fingerprint, I

1:02:10

understand, but the inherent

1:02:12

divine is of source. And

1:02:15

the guides say the God within you and

1:02:17

me and everybody else is always

1:02:19

there, but we've denied it.

1:02:22

And it also knows itself as of

1:02:25

the other. So the God within me knows itself

1:02:27

as not separate from the God within you and

1:02:30

the God within all things. And that's how, that's

1:02:32

where it gets really kind of trippy and mind-blowing

1:02:34

if you think about it. So

1:02:37

it's interesting. So essentially that we

1:02:40

all can, you and I can walk. We're

1:02:42

walking. Yeah. At a

1:02:45

rudimentary level, we can walk, we can talk,

1:02:48

we do things, but when we're born,

1:02:50

we don't know that we can walk until we see

1:02:52

other people do it. And then we start to try

1:02:54

to figure it out. Oh, actually right. Or figure it

1:02:56

out ourselves. This is a very base materialistic,

1:02:58

grounded view of what we're trying to

1:03:01

explain. So in similar, when

1:03:03

you see someone like an avatar, like a

1:03:05

Jesus or Buddha talking about this, like, no,

1:03:07

you can connect directly to source. All

1:03:10

the answers are within you. It's

1:03:12

essentially trying to convince people that like,

1:03:15

no, no, this, this is

1:03:17

great. This is a guide, not this

1:03:19

book, but all books, all knowledge, all

1:03:21

teachings. But the true answers are within

1:03:23

you if you're able to go inward

1:03:26

to connect to the divine. Does

1:03:28

that make sense? It does make sense, but

1:03:30

it's so frustrating because people

1:03:32

go, well how? And I try and I

1:03:34

don't get it and I don't know how

1:03:36

and I've been there. Okay. You know, I

1:03:38

totally, totally get that. And when you hear,

1:03:40

well, Jesus said, do this or Buddha said,

1:03:43

do this, I mean, you see them as

1:03:45

instructions, but you, and you can, people

1:03:47

who really get it, I expect see them as

1:03:49

examples. But Jesus was teaching

1:03:52

socialism, really. I mean, feed the poor. Do

1:03:54

you know? I'm welcome,

1:03:56

welcome your, you know, welcome your neighbor in.

1:03:58

I mean, it's all that stuff. is real

1:04:01

grounded truth. There's

1:04:04

nothing woo woo about it. It's

1:04:06

really simple. So what was

1:04:08

I gonna say? What

1:04:12

did you just say? Because I forgot that. We

1:04:14

were talking about the example of everything we can

1:04:16

do. And you were trying to convince people that

1:04:18

the truth is within them. Oh yeah,

1:04:20

yeah, yeah. Well, I don't try to convince people of

1:04:22

anything, but this is what happened for me. And

1:04:24

this may be useful. So

1:04:27

when I was waking

1:04:30

up into this stuff, I

1:04:33

ended up studying energy healing with this

1:04:35

woman, Ethel Lombardi, who was one

1:04:37

of the first, I

1:04:39

think 13 Reiki masters in the US. This was back in

1:04:42

the day when people had to put down a dowry to

1:04:44

study. This is not popular at the, oh yeah, this was

1:04:46

a big deal. She was a student of a woman named

1:04:48

Takata, who was the protege of

1:04:50

Ussai, who brought through what we know of

1:04:52

as Reiki. So Ethel was a big

1:04:54

deal, but she'd already broken from that. She was teaching

1:04:56

her own stuff. And she was this, I

1:05:00

thought she was old, she was probably

1:05:02

my age, but with the bright red

1:05:04

hair and blue eyes, and she

1:05:07

was like an old Irish lady, Scottish, I

1:05:09

think she was. But I

1:05:11

watched this ordinary lady stand in a

1:05:14

room, and she said, okay,

1:05:16

everybody ask for one thing, you're gonna get it. And

1:05:19

I felt the energy come into the

1:05:21

room, and I was electrified by it.

1:05:25

My jaw dropped. And

1:05:28

I went, what she did in

1:05:30

that moment was astonishing, was she

1:05:32

gave me permission. She

1:05:35

showed me something was possible that defied

1:05:37

everything I had known. And here's the

1:05:39

funny thing, when the guides work through

1:05:41

me, they do that in

1:05:43

their way. Now they bring through the energy, they

1:05:46

fill the room, and people can have their own

1:05:48

experience. Now until we know

1:05:50

that something is possible, we're not going

1:05:52

to claim it. That's the

1:05:54

first step in any kind of manifestation.

1:05:58

We'll be right back. after a word from our

1:06:01

sponsor. And

1:06:05

now back to the show. And

1:06:08

I think the fact that I come from,

1:06:11

in some ways a little bit of a traditional background, you

1:06:13

know, I was an academic, I did all

1:06:15

that stuff. I'm not

1:06:17

wearing a turban, you know, with a

1:06:20

sapphire on the front, you know, I'm not doing

1:06:22

that. If this can happen

1:06:24

through me, it can happen. Now,

1:06:26

if I was six foot five, I might

1:06:28

be playing professional basketball because I'd be built

1:06:30

for that. And while I

1:06:33

was built for this, I understand that

1:06:36

I had to be developed and I think

1:06:38

anybody can be developed. You have to say

1:06:40

I'm willing and then you have to be

1:06:42

willing to

1:06:44

go through a process that can feel

1:06:46

at times, at least for me, like

1:06:48

going through a meat grinder because

1:06:50

it's not all easy and polite. Like

1:06:53

any adventure, you know, there's cliffs

1:06:56

that you have to hang from and walk.

1:06:59

And you know, that's how it goes.

1:07:01

And I think that when you're going

1:07:04

through an awakening or you're trying to

1:07:06

connect to source or everything that we're

1:07:08

talking about, like you get

1:07:11

frustrated because you say it, but

1:07:13

it's hard to explain it. It's

1:07:15

something that really is personal in

1:07:17

the sense of how it

1:07:20

happens for you. Not everyone's gonna

1:07:22

go, okay, step one, you do this, step two,

1:07:24

you do this, step three, you do this. You

1:07:27

shock was open, the heart shocker opens, and

1:07:29

now you're enlightened. It doesn't

1:07:31

happen for everybody that way. There are guides,

1:07:33

there are areas you can point to. You

1:07:36

can start testing things out, but it really is

1:07:39

unique to you, as unique as a fingerprint,

1:07:41

honestly. I agree with that completely. I don't

1:07:44

think it's one size fits all. I think

1:07:46

everybody has their own journey and

1:07:48

their own experience. And I think we come with our

1:07:50

own lessons to learn around these things. I don't know

1:07:53

if everybody

1:07:55

wakes up in a lifetime, and I don't think

1:07:57

they need to. I think we've come to learn.

1:08:00

different things at different times. So

1:08:03

I think that's really important for people to know. My

1:08:06

journey, when

1:08:09

I did a little meditation group, I went to

1:08:11

somebody else's channeling before I was doing it, back

1:08:13

when I was opening up. And

1:08:15

this woman did this lovely meditation and

1:08:17

she said, oh, just imagine, everybody see

1:08:20

your paths before you, your spiritual paths.

1:08:23

And then we had to go around the room

1:08:25

and share. And some people were saying, well, the

1:08:27

roses are blooming as I walk by and the

1:08:30

sparrows are singing. And I

1:08:32

came to me and this is what

1:08:34

I said, I said, I was climbing

1:08:36

up the mountain like the witch's castle

1:08:38

in the Wizard of Oz. It was

1:08:40

like peaked and dark and stormy climbing.

1:08:42

And I'm bloody feet, bloody fingers, you

1:08:44

know. But I had an investment in

1:08:46

it being hard. I

1:08:49

had an investment in it being because I... Academic,

1:08:51

maybe? No, it wasn't academic. Well, honestly,

1:08:54

it was hard. It

1:08:56

was hard. When I was coming into my

1:08:58

stuff, it was the

1:09:01

height of the AIDS epidemic in New York. Everybody

1:09:03

I knew was dying all around me. I

1:09:05

was basically

1:09:07

homeless. I

1:09:09

had nothing. I was out of graduate school.

1:09:11

I was nearly sober. I'd only worked in

1:09:13

bars. I was a writer that couldn't

1:09:15

write. It was a... And

1:09:18

I was so well taken care of

1:09:20

through those years, but it was hard.

1:09:22

I remember going to somebody's meditation

1:09:25

in the Ritzy Building at that

1:09:27

time and you had to take your

1:09:29

shoes off and I had holes in my socks and I

1:09:31

was covering my feet and people were

1:09:33

talking about service. That was the subject of

1:09:36

the meeting. And somebody said, I

1:09:40

smiled at the checkout person today

1:09:42

and I took the cleaning lady

1:09:44

more. And at the

1:09:46

time, I'm like, what

1:09:50

are they talking about? I

1:09:53

was like, do I have enough money to get

1:09:55

home from this thing at that time? That's

1:09:57

such an important thing because a lot of people... you

1:10:00

know, we're talking about deep thoughts and self,

1:10:03

you know, looking inward on my, but if

1:10:05

you can't pay the rent or put food

1:10:07

on the table, it's really difficult for you

1:10:09

to focus on the

1:10:11

spiritual path. Absolutely right. Absolutely

1:10:14

right. I learned, I

1:10:17

learned about prosperity

1:10:19

consciousness at

1:10:22

the time that I had to, because I didn't have

1:10:24

anything, you know, I learned a lot of this stuff.

1:10:26

I don't want to live through that again, if I

1:10:28

can help it. It was very hard.

1:10:30

And in retrospect, I looked back at that

1:10:32

time in my life, and I really was

1:10:34

a step away from being on the street.

1:10:37

I mean, I remember needing to move once,

1:10:39

because I was sharing a

1:10:41

place with somebody who was still drinking and

1:10:43

I had stopped. And they said, well, how

1:10:46

much money do you have for the move? And I said, 45, said, 45, how

1:10:49

do I say I had $45? That's

1:10:51

what I had to my name. And

1:10:54

that's pretty close to the edge. That's

1:10:56

yeah, it's homelessness, pretty much. But I was living

1:10:58

with somebody else. I had a roof over, I

1:11:00

was, I always had food and a

1:11:03

roof over my head, but I learned lessons through

1:11:05

this. And it taught

1:11:07

me a great deal of compassion. And

1:11:09

now, you know, I understand there's nothing

1:11:11

wrong with prosperity. I think it's terrific.

1:11:13

I think we have to understand though,

1:11:16

what sources, but people sometimes book

1:11:18

readings with me. And

1:11:20

they say, well, I can't pay my rent this month.

1:11:23

And I know God is going to provide. And

1:11:25

I'm saying, well, I'm not cheap. And you should

1:11:27

probably use this money towards the rent. And I'd

1:11:30

prefer that you do that. Be

1:11:32

practical with your life. You know, it's

1:11:34

not all magical. You know, it's not.

1:11:37

When I say I was taken care of, I actually

1:11:41

had nothing else to do but to trust source

1:11:43

that everything was going to be okay. Because you

1:11:45

were in a corner, you got basically put in

1:11:47

a corner. I really was in a corner. But

1:11:50

when I look back at that time, I see

1:11:53

how much grace there

1:11:55

was. I had people who loved me.

1:11:57

I was really damaged. and I was

1:12:00

really frightened and I didn't think things were gonna get

1:12:02

better. I had an old

1:12:04

shrink, I call her Hurricane Harriet, but we all

1:12:06

called her Hurricane Harriet Warfield. She was a trip,

1:12:08

she was like an ex-Cory, she looked like an

1:12:10

ex-Coryne, the Leggy blonde, you know, with like the

1:12:12

120 cigarette and she used to smoke like that,

1:12:14

you know? And she said to

1:12:16

me, get spiritual, get spiritual.

1:12:22

She said the people that make it get

1:12:24

spiritual and she also said, and don't listen

1:12:26

to those people walking around saying they got

1:12:28

the higher power. The ones that got the

1:12:30

higher power probably ain't talking about it. Absolutely.

1:12:33

And I thought, yeah, I

1:12:36

do think she was right. She was a gift. I mean,

1:12:38

I'll tell you what, I mean, people who

1:12:40

talk about how wealthy they are, they probably aren't

1:12:42

that wealthy. You know, it's always

1:12:44

like they say, don't look at the guy

1:12:46

who's yelling and screaming and trying to be

1:12:48

boisterous in the bar. It's the quiet one

1:12:51

in the corner you gotta worry about. It's

1:12:53

really true. I mean, throughout our

1:12:55

lives, it's like, yeah, it's not the loud mouth,

1:12:57

the loud mouth probably can't fight. But

1:13:00

that quiet guy smoking a cigarette at the

1:13:02

corner drinking a beer, stay away

1:13:04

from him. And I would agree

1:13:06

with that in the spiritual sense as well. I mean,

1:13:09

you know, and I've had the pleasure of meeting so

1:13:11

many beautifully spiritual human

1:13:13

beings who are on their path.

1:13:15

And there's no question

1:13:17

that they are at a different

1:13:20

frequency than I am or that

1:13:22

I've been around. And

1:13:24

I'm blessed by just being, even with you,

1:13:26

just being in the room with someone like

1:13:28

yourself, it feeds,

1:13:31

it feeds the frequency. But

1:13:33

generally speaking, they don't

1:13:35

come in walking like, I

1:13:38

know that I am the way, I am the

1:13:40

spirit. None of them do that.

1:13:42

They just come in and like, this is

1:13:44

what I figured out. Maybe this

1:13:46

could be helpful in your path. Pretty much.

1:13:49

Maybe if it doesn't, it's okay. You know,

1:13:51

we're all just walking the path. One

1:13:54

thing I wanted to ask you about, and I think

1:13:56

we talked about this at another time, but the

1:13:59

power of... on our

1:14:01

spiritual path, the power of forgiveness. And

1:14:03

what that lack of forgiveness does to us, that

1:14:09

anchor that it holds us back.

1:14:11

Can you talk about, or the guides talk a little

1:14:13

bit about that? I'll talk about it first, and if

1:14:15

they want to add to it, because this is stuff

1:14:17

that I do understand, because they've taught it. In

1:14:24

the book of mastery, there's a little

1:14:27

section where they say, so you're walking up this

1:14:29

mountain, that mountain that I

1:14:31

saw, I guess, but walking up the mountain, and there's

1:14:33

a cave, and you go into the cave, and the

1:14:35

one person you never want to see again as long

1:14:37

as you live is in that cave. And

1:14:40

your job is to escort them out of the

1:14:42

cave. And they said, well,

1:14:44

you're the one that put them in darkness, and

1:14:48

they've called you there. You

1:14:51

put them there, and they've called you there,

1:14:53

and your job is now to let them

1:14:55

out. Now, it doesn't mean that you

1:14:58

have to have dinner with them, that

1:15:00

you have to make it all

1:15:02

okay, but

1:15:05

it does mean that I have been

1:15:07

put in darkness by who I have

1:15:09

placed there. That's vibrational

1:15:12

accord. It's a very simple teaching.

1:15:16

We'll be right back after a word from our

1:15:18

sponsor. And

1:15:22

now, back to the show. And

1:15:26

forgiveness, I think, is the release

1:15:28

of that. And the forgiveness is

1:15:30

done for you, for me, not

1:15:32

for the other person. They're bound,

1:15:34

too, I suspect, energetically. But

1:15:37

it works. It's

1:15:39

huge. It's a huge, huge

1:15:41

thing. And I understand that

1:15:43

there are people that say, I can never forgive this, and

1:15:46

there are people who've done things in my life that I

1:15:48

have a very hard time forgiving. The best

1:15:50

I can do sometimes is say, well, they have a

1:15:52

right to be in the

1:15:54

world, as they are, and unattach.

1:15:59

But I think that, the

1:16:01

idea of forgiveness is extraordinarily

1:16:03

practical and it's not, as

1:16:06

some people would like to say, about

1:16:08

becoming docile and letting yourself get stepped

1:16:11

on. I don't think that's it at

1:16:13

all. It's about not binding you to

1:16:15

the event, to the person, to the

1:16:18

situation that you end up reinforcing through

1:16:20

the block. Because it does

1:16:23

block the heart, it does block love, no

1:16:25

question. How do you balance

1:16:27

that in the real world,

1:16:29

in material, like you were saying, because

1:16:31

if someone wrongs me and

1:16:35

I go, it's all good. That's not it. Yeah,

1:16:37

please explain it. So I want clarity if you

1:16:39

can. Let me see if they can do it.

1:16:42

The idea of forgiveness is misunderstood by

1:16:44

forgiving, releasing

1:16:47

yourself by forgiving, you're releasing yourself

1:16:49

from a bondage you have placed

1:16:51

or tied yourself

1:16:53

to, to realize the self. To realize the self

1:16:56

is free from another, as free from another is

1:16:58

to indeed to allow them to be, is indeed

1:17:00

to allow them to be. Now your question is

1:17:02

very simple. Now your question is very simple. How

1:17:04

is this done? How has this done? And what

1:17:06

is the affect? And what is the affect? It

1:17:09

takes two people to have a war. It takes

1:17:11

one person to walk away from metal. It takes

1:17:13

one person to walk away from a battle. It

1:17:15

takes one person to forgive wrong. It takes one

1:17:17

person to forgive a wrong. Now accountability is still

1:17:19

required, you

1:17:22

understand the idea of karma. You understand the

1:17:24

idea of karma as punishment, as punishment. It

1:17:27

is not punishment. It is not punishment. It

1:17:29

is an opportunity to learn. The lessons will

1:17:31

come again and again until you learn them.

1:17:33

The lessons will come again and again until

1:17:35

you learn them to realize another is of

1:17:38

God. To realize another is of God, regardless

1:17:40

of what they have done, is

1:17:43

also to forgive yourself for not being who you

1:17:45

are supposed to be, the idea of Christ. The

1:17:47

idea of Christ or the inner light or the

1:17:49

inner light as a redeemer, as redeemer is actually

1:17:51

accurate, is actually accurate. The realization of the inherent

1:17:54

divine, the realization of the inherent divine in another

1:17:56

way, in another way, it's been done. where it

1:17:58

has been denied will not only redeem them, will

1:18:00

not only redeem them, but will release the cord

1:18:02

between you. It will release the cord between you.

1:18:04

There was forge and anger, a fear that was

1:18:07

forged in anger or fear. You may have any

1:18:09

kind of boundary you wish. You may have any

1:18:11

kind of boundary you wish. You should not allow

1:18:13

somebody to admit. You should not allow someone to

1:18:15

hit you in the head. You should take the

1:18:18

stick from their hand and say no, and say

1:18:20

no. This is not about being a victim. This

1:18:22

is not about being a victim, but as we

1:18:24

say, but as we say, you cannot be a

1:18:26

victim. You cannot be a victim and a master

1:18:28

at the same time, period. Much,

1:18:32

much more clear. Okay, good. That's very clear.

1:18:37

One thing that I'd love to ask you about is

1:18:40

how can we determine between thoughts

1:18:42

and guidance in our inner mind? Thoughts

1:18:45

and guidance? Well,

1:18:48

I mean, you know, the guides

1:18:50

teach knowing, you know, true knowing. And

1:18:53

there's nothing wrong with thinking. We're thinking,

1:18:55

you know, all the time. I

1:18:57

had to think about, you know, what I wasn't aware today and, you know,

1:18:59

what time I had to get up. When

1:19:04

one has true knowing or knowing, there

1:19:06

is never a question. Now, I don't

1:19:08

mean to interrupt you, but the

1:19:10

concept of knowing. Yeah, I

1:19:13

understand and agree with what you're saying. But

1:19:16

for someone who has

1:19:18

told themselves a story and their egoic

1:19:20

mind is this is the knowing. I

1:19:22

know this is true. How can you

1:19:25

tell the difference? Well, how can they

1:19:27

know the difference? Yeah. Or

1:19:29

how can you know the difference within your own life? Because

1:19:32

it might be beliefs. Oh, yeah, there are beliefs.

1:19:34

And it's knowing of those beliefs. Like you and I both have our

1:19:36

beliefs on how the universe works. Yep.

1:19:40

Period. But I don't say I

1:19:42

know and it's a fact. No, I say I

1:19:44

have a belief. Exactly right. I literally say I

1:19:46

have a belief. Yeah. And I'm

1:19:49

trying to fit in that in that picture is changing with every

1:19:51

conversation I have. Yeah. And that's the

1:19:53

beauty of what I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm always trying

1:19:55

to figure it out. But I have

1:19:57

a belief of this was going and it will adjust.