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comm slash with Amex Welcome

1:03

to the next level soul podcast where we

1:05

ask the big questions about life. Why are

1:07

we here? Is this all there is? What

1:11

is my soul's mission? We

1:13

attempt to answer those questions and more

1:16

by bringing you raw and inspiring Conversations

1:18

with some of the most fascinating and

1:20

thought-provoking guests on the planet today. I

1:23

am your host Alex Ferrari I'm

1:27

always looking to help the

1:30

next level soul audience Take

1:32

their soul to the next level and I've

1:35

been able to partner with mind valley to

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1:39

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head over to nextlevelsoul.com forward

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2:18

the views and opinions expressed in

2:20

this podcast are those of the

2:22

guest and do not necessarily reflect

2:24

the views or positions of the

2:26

show, its host or any of

2:28

the companies they represent. How many

2:30

of us have eaten because we're

2:32

sad and we've heard of the

2:34

concept of comfort food to make

2:36

us feel better and how we

2:38

medicate ourselves sometimes with food.

2:41

Well, today's guest is

2:43

a groundbreaking leader in

2:46

the space of emotional eating, eating

2:48

disorders and shining a light on

2:50

it before anybody else was. We

2:53

have Janine Roth, who is the

2:55

author of 10 New York time

2:58

bestselling books and has

3:00

been speaking and teaching workshops and

3:02

offering retreats for over 30 years

3:05

in the space of helping

3:07

people learn how to have

3:09

a good relationship with food.

3:11

So let's dive in. I

3:15

like to welcome to the show Janine Roth. How you doing,

3:17

Janine? Great. I'm very

3:19

happy to be here. Thank you so

3:21

much for coming on the show. I'm

3:23

so excited to talk to you about your

3:25

work and your amazing work of what you've

3:27

been doing throughout the course of your life.

3:29

And my very first question is

3:32

how did you kind of get into this line

3:34

of work? Because you were kind of at the

3:36

forefront of what you do, right? Yes.

3:41

Well, I was a crazy

3:44

person around food, body and weight. That's how

3:46

I'd say I live. I'd say I lived

3:48

in a hell realm. Probably

3:50

my entire life, starting by

3:52

the time I was five

3:55

or six, thought I was too fat. started

4:00

radically dieting when I was 11. By

4:03

that, I mean, making up

4:05

my own diets with a one hot

4:07

fruit Sunday a day diet, the thousand

4:10

calorie a day, cookie

4:14

diet, the matz applesauce and meatballs

4:17

diet, the all grape nuts diet.

4:19

I mean, I did some intense

4:21

diets that I made up. Plus

4:23

I was addicted to amphetamines for

4:25

four years. And then

4:27

I became anorexic. And through that

4:30

entire time, even when I was

4:32

anorexic weighing probably 30

4:34

pounds less

4:36

than I weigh now, maybe

4:39

yeah, 30 pounds less than I

4:41

weigh now. I still looked in

4:43

the mirror and loathed myself. And

4:45

so that self loathing prompted

4:48

the 17 years of

4:51

gaining and losing more than a thousand

4:53

pounds. And then finally after the anorexia,

4:56

and there were no names for it, I'm dating

4:58

myself. Back in

5:00

the last century, people weren't

5:02

calling it anorexic. There wasn't

5:05

nothing like eating disorders was coined.

5:07

None of that. I just

5:09

felt like an insane person and very

5:11

alone. And I gained 80 pounds in

5:14

two months after being anorexic. And

5:16

at that point I wanted to kill myself

5:19

and started thinking about ways

5:21

to do it and planning ways to do it.

5:23

And I had worked in a suicide prevention and

5:25

crisis center all throughout my 20s. So

5:28

I knew what serious intent

5:30

was. And I was pretty serious. And

5:32

I gave myself one last chance. That

5:35

was I was gonna stop

5:37

dieting. And I was

5:39

gonna let myself eat what I wanted to

5:41

eat. I was going to

5:44

see if it was possible to

5:47

actually trust this body.

5:49

And it wasn't really at the beginning

5:51

because I was

5:53

so filled with what I should eat and

5:55

what I shouldn't eat and binging and all

5:57

I really wanted to eat was sugar. So

6:01

it took a little while, couple of

6:03

weeks of eating nothing but raw chocolate

6:05

chip cookie dough. But

6:08

I wasn't guilty about

6:10

it and I wasn't shaming myself because I realized

6:13

for me, I was at the end of the

6:15

line. It was either I

6:17

go through this or

6:20

I kill myself. And I

6:23

don't mean to say that lightly because it

6:25

wasn't a light thing. I was, I could

6:28

have ripped myself apart. That's how much I

6:30

hated myself. I could have banged into walls.

6:33

I could have cut myself. Eating was my

6:36

way to do all of that. And

6:38

finally, I realized I read a great

6:40

book called Fat is a Feminist Issue.

6:43

And in reading that book, I

6:46

realized that perhaps there was a reason for all

6:48

of this. Or I was

6:50

trying to express something I didn't

6:52

know how to express through food. And

6:55

maybe it was the most sane thing

6:57

I'd ever done. And

6:59

so that started me off. So

7:02

let me ask you, when you said

7:04

you at six, you started to think

7:06

about this. That's extremely young. You

7:09

started dieting. What was it around

7:11

in your environment? Was it something inside of you

7:13

or did you see where you modeling? Were you

7:15

being your family, your community, your cultural environment? What

7:21

was causing these images? Because, you

7:23

know, and you didn't even have social

7:26

media. Could you imagine social media, Instagram

7:28

and those things at that time? So

7:30

what was it that actually triggered that?

7:33

Well, my mom was a fat kid

7:36

and very upset about having been

7:38

a fat kid. And

7:40

her mother took her shopping in the

7:43

chubby section of Macy's and

7:47

shamed her because her thighs

7:49

rubbed together. And

7:52

so she was determined that

7:55

I not follow in her footsteps.

7:58

Also, I think. I think in

8:01

those days, and I mean the 50s,

8:03

late 50s, early

8:05

60s, parenting was

8:07

very different than it is now.

8:09

I don't think parents knew that

8:11

criticizing your kids, telling

8:15

your daughter that her ankles look

8:17

like piano stools was

8:20

not a good thing. I think

8:23

that she thought, I

8:25

think she firmly believed

8:28

that criticizing me,

8:31

telling me I was fat would

8:34

lead me to want to be

8:36

thin. And I wasn't a thin kid. You

8:38

know, when I look at pictures of myself

8:40

then, I wasn't

8:42

fat, but I definitely was not

8:44

thin. I was round. That's

8:46

how I would say I was round. Wow.

8:49

Yeah. And I mean, I was raised in

8:51

the 70s and early 80s. And,

8:54

you know, my parents, God bless

8:56

them. Culturally, you know,

8:58

I'm a guy, and I'm also a

9:00

male, so it's not as heavy as

9:03

it is for females, but culturally,

9:06

I come from a Cuban household,

9:09

and you had to eat everything on the plate. So

9:11

there's that mentality that you had to kind of

9:14

break through. You would have

9:16

someone say, hey, you're getting a little chunky

9:18

there. These little things, you know, like the

9:20

uncle would come over and say something, or

9:22

the aunt would say like, oh, it's getting

9:25

too big. These kinds of

9:27

things, it does

9:29

help the programming in your mind to

9:31

start thinking about these things. And

9:34

then we get advertising. And then,

9:36

and even then, again, the 50s

9:38

and the 70s, nothing compared to

9:40

what we have today in regards to the body

9:43

dysmorphia that, you know, like if you don't

9:45

have a six pack, you're fat. Kind

9:48

of environment that we live in. And it's, I think

9:51

it's gone the other way now. I think

9:53

now, you know, you see plus size models

9:55

and things like that, that would never been

9:57

around even five, 10 years ago.

10:00

ago. But it is

10:02

something that we all kind of, I

10:04

just was interesting what caused it

10:06

because I remember what caused it for me

10:08

and I battled as well for many, many

10:10

gained and lost weight, binged and you

10:13

know, lost 50, 60 pounds and got into the

10:16

best shape of my life that lasts a couple years. But then

10:18

the diet that I was on was unsustainable.

10:22

Yes. And then one thing pops. And

10:24

then that could be an emotion which brings me to the

10:27

next question would be the emotion about it.

10:29

So you break up with a girlfriend, you

10:31

lose the job, you do something clicks. And

10:34

then you tell yourself, you're worth it. Go

10:36

have some cheesecake. You're worth it. Go do

10:38

this. Eat whatever you want. I mean, life

10:40

is tough enough. These kind of stories you

10:42

start telling yourself. And I don't

10:44

know if you've heard, I'm sure you've heard this story.

10:46

The I think Tony Robbins said this once, which was

10:48

such a great story. And I love bringing it up.

10:51

It's called the cheesecake story. And I'd love to hear

10:53

your thoughts on why we do this to ourselves. We're

10:56

there at the middle of the middle of a meal. Beautiful

10:58

meal. We eat it. We're stuffed

11:00

completely beyond where we

11:02

should have eaten, let's say, you know, let's say at the

11:04

Thanksgiving meal, we've all been there. We'll

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As an actor, a producer, and a proud

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everyone, it's Wilmer Valderrama. And

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13:27

And now back to the show. Yes.

13:32

And then you're like, I'm

13:34

stuffed. And then the cheesecake plate comes out and

13:37

everyone's like, would you like a piece of

13:39

cheesecake? And you're like, in your brain,

13:41

you're having this conversation. Go ahead,

13:43

have the cheesecake. It's going to be fine. You'll work out a little

13:45

bit more tomorrow. You'll be okay. And you

13:47

eat the cheesecake and then you get home that night

13:50

and you take your clothes off in front of

13:52

the mirror. And that same little voice says,

13:54

you fat pig. I can't believe

13:56

you ate the cheesecake. It's the

13:58

same voice. What

14:01

is that? And how can we like

14:03

help deal with that voice

14:05

that that that little yappy thing in our head

14:07

that does that to us? Well,

14:11

say a couple things about that,

14:13

Alex. The first is, go

14:15

ahead, eat the cheesecake to

14:18

you fat pig. I can't believe you ate

14:20

the cheesecake. They are two

14:22

sides of the same stick. They're

14:25

they're not really any different from

14:27

each other. Go ahead. You deserve

14:29

it. Go ahead. It's Thanksgiving or

14:31

go ahead. You've been really good today or

14:34

go ahead. You

14:37

know, it tastes good. It won't hurt. And

14:40

then the other side, you fat pig.

14:43

So those are basically you can think

14:45

of them as kind of along a

14:48

continuum. If you've got one, you're going

14:50

to get the other one. And

14:53

that's how it goes. So the

14:56

I could talk to you on

14:58

the micro level there

15:00

with okay, what do we do when

15:03

that self critical voice comes? I

15:06

could talk to you about that. And maybe we'll

15:08

talk about that in a second. But what we

15:11

want to do is go meta to that whole

15:13

thing. And we want to

15:15

notice or I want to notice

15:17

and this is where I've been

15:19

working recently, not just with myself

15:22

on those very old voices, but

15:24

also with my my students. I've

15:28

been working with what

15:30

do you really believe about

15:32

yourself? What

15:34

is the so

15:37

called unavoidable conclusion that

15:40

you came to, maybe

15:42

even before you could talk based

15:45

on the environment, based on

15:48

the information you were getting

15:50

from your caretakers, or

15:52

probably by the time you could

15:55

talk five or six the TV

15:57

was blasting. Now it's social

15:59

media. media, and you get

16:01

certain images and people tell

16:04

you things and friends and

16:06

family. And you and

16:09

you as a

16:12

very young person, when

16:14

you depending on the environment out

16:16

there, you depending on your parents,

16:19

you're depending on your caretakers, you're

16:21

depending on your siblings, you're dependent

16:23

for your survival. And if what

16:25

you're getting back is contain yourself,

16:28

you're overwhelming, you're too needy,

16:30

you're too big, you're too

16:32

fat, you're eating too much,

16:35

you will come

16:39

to some, first of all,

16:41

your feelings will be hurt, it will affect

16:43

you, you will be upset. You

16:46

know, as even as a three year

16:48

old, you recognize what criticism feels like,

16:51

doesn't feel good, it feels like sort

16:53

of getting stabbed. And want

16:56

to say from the outset, I've

16:58

never met anybody who had

17:00

enlightened parents, whose parents

17:03

did not speak to them

17:05

like this, whose

17:07

parents just

17:10

gave their their kid, you

17:12

know, Yes, sweetheart, yes, I understand,

17:14

you know, there was kind of

17:17

a perfect understanding parenting is hard.

17:20

And so we get,

17:23

we get the message that

17:26

we're not okay, we get that

17:28

message. And we each come to

17:30

particular conclusions. I looked around in

17:33

my family, for instance, and

17:35

I felt like there was no one there

17:37

for me. There just

17:39

wasn't my mother, my father, my

17:41

brother, my cousins, it

17:44

was quite a dysfunctional family. And

17:46

I came to the conclusion that

17:48

it was because something was

17:50

really wrong with me, fundamentally

17:53

wrong with me. And I

17:56

see that in a lot of my students when

17:58

I take them back. to

18:00

their early conclusions. This goes way

18:03

beyond the stuff with food. This

18:06

conclusion or decision you've made

18:08

about yourself, something's wrong with

18:11

me, I'm not enough, I'm

18:14

overwhelming, I'm worthless, I

18:20

am unlovable, you name

18:23

it. That then, you

18:25

then want to repress that, cover

18:28

it up, and then you start

18:30

developing adaptive behaviors. Well,

18:32

let me be nicer than I think

18:35

I am. I'm really a mean person.

18:37

And so that's why my parents are

18:39

like this because kids can't help but

18:41

blame themselves and sometimes they are blamed

18:43

but even when they're not they blame

18:45

themselves. If their mother's lonely or depressed

18:47

or goes away or father unavailable, it's

18:49

my fault. What's wrong with

18:52

me? A kid makes a decision, gets

18:55

an adaptive behavior. It's

18:57

too painful to feel that. It

19:00

starts to become nice, starts to

19:02

become not true

19:05

to themselves, separate from themselves. Well,

19:07

I really am a mean person,

19:10

or I'm worthless. So now I'll make

19:12

up for it by. And the

19:15

whole thing is a

19:17

mechanism there. And

19:20

leads to, well, something's wrong with me

19:22

and I'm not enough and I'm never

19:24

going to get enough and I'm unavoidable,

19:26

I might as well eat. Might

19:32

as well because it hurts to

19:34

be me. And eating,

19:37

at least, gives me

19:40

momentary pleasure. I

19:42

get to forget about it from the

19:44

moment that one bite. Now after the

19:46

second or third bite people are in their minds, again. So

19:48

then it's a row. It's

19:55

interesting because when I'm

19:58

going through what I've gone through in my life, I'm going to be like, as

20:00

you're talking, I'm just thinking about using

20:02

my own experience in my head that, you

20:05

know, when you do eat healthy

20:07

and a healthy food, but when you eat, you know,

20:09

comfort food, as they call it, comfort food, there's

20:12

a couple of different things that cause that there's

20:14

either the comfort that you felt when you first

20:16

ate it back when

20:18

you were a child, like, Oh yeah, that

20:20

cake that I ate that, that cheesecake or

20:22

that flan that I ate when I was

20:25

a kid, they loved me then. And that's

20:27

what I'm associating with flan. But

20:29

also there's, so there's that kind of

20:31

release of that emotion, but

20:33

also the, the chemical reaction in your

20:36

brain, you're getting endorphin hits from, from

20:38

the sugar, from the salt, from the

20:40

fat. So I always tell people like,

20:42

when you go to a fast food joint, that that's

20:45

food is chem, chemically designed.

20:47

And even if it's not like at this extreme

20:49

as like, let's say, you know, one of the

20:52

big chains, but even if it's, you're going to

20:54

a smaller chain, it's, you

20:56

know, fat, cheese, salt,

20:59

uh, sugar. That's all triggers

21:01

in our brain to continue to

21:03

eat more and more. And I always

21:05

used to say, it's like, you know, when I used to go eat in and out,

21:08

boy, it tasted good going in,

21:10

but boy, I felt like crap

21:13

afterwards. Cause your body, it's not

21:15

really built to eat like that all

21:17

the time. So it was

21:19

really, it's really fascinating, um, to

21:22

see that. Now I want to ask you, cause you've kind

21:24

of mentioned it a little bit in regards to your family

21:27

and your environment. Let's

21:30

say you start trying to make changes in

21:33

your life. Let's say you start changing the

21:35

story that you've told yourself, but

21:38

your immediate environment doesn't support

21:40

it like your wife, like your, you

21:42

know, relative, your brothers, your sisters, your

21:45

family, your parents, maybe they

21:47

aren't supportive, uh, and then maybe

21:49

your workplace isn't supportive of it. Maybe your

21:51

culture or your religion isn't supportive of it.

21:55

It becomes that much more difficult to make

21:57

those changes. And a lot of times. those

22:00

changes is, you know, it's

22:02

cultural. It's something that's like when I

22:04

told my my Cuban parents that I wasn't

22:07

going to eat meat anymore 10 years ago, they

22:10

were like, what do you how are you going to live? Like,

22:14

well, I'll just go outside and graze. But

22:19

but it was a cultural thing. And it's

22:21

taken a long time for them to just

22:23

see, oh, he's alive and

22:25

doing well. So apparently something's working. But

22:27

that was a cultural shift that that

22:29

needed. So what advice do you have

22:31

for people dealing with

22:34

that environmental, cultural, religious, or

22:36

family units that don't support

22:39

change in these stories that you're trying to change

22:41

in yourself? You know,

22:44

sometimes, when I go out to

22:46

eat, or don't go

22:48

out to eat, or go out to eat and don't

22:50

eat, because I'm not hungry.

22:52

And I'm with a group of people,

22:55

let's say, eight people and they're,

22:58

how come you're not eating? How come you don't

23:00

want this? Come on. The the

23:02

this is just a little small segment of

23:04

what you're talking about. But

23:07

I know, because

23:10

I've thought this through many,

23:12

many times, if I

23:14

eat, because they're eating,

23:16

it's not their

23:19

bodies that suffer. It's

23:21

my bodies. At some point, I will

23:23

leave them, I will go home, and

23:26

I will be suffering like the Cheesecake

23:28

Story. We'll

23:30

be right back after a word from our sponsor.

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24:04

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24:06

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24:08

troubles because life happens baby

24:10

but you got this. Hi

24:12

there, I'm Honey German and I know we

24:14

can all use some positive energy these days.

24:17

That's why I make sure to empower my community because

24:19

a bit of motivation and support can

24:21

go a long way. And

24:23

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24:26

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24:28

the coverage you need and they have the options to

24:30

protect the things you value most. It's

24:32

the perfect positive tip you need. State

24:35

Farm is also a big supporter of the My

24:37

Cultura podcast network where we as

24:39

podcast hosts get to share our

24:41

experiences and stories. Like

24:43

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24:46

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24:48

Cultura shows wherever you listen to podcasts.

24:51

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24:53

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24:56

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24:58

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25:07

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25:25

And now back to the show. So

25:31

this is up to me. This

25:34

is my body. This

25:39

is my decision. And more

25:42

than that, I

25:44

am willing to stand in what's true. So

25:48

there's taking a stand in

25:51

what you know is true. Is it

25:53

easy? No. It sounds like you

25:55

did it anyway with the me. So,

25:58

so. your

26:00

parents were like, Oh my

26:02

god, how are you going to survive?

26:04

And you knew what was

26:07

true for you. You knew

26:09

what you wanted to do. You know,

26:11

many of us are what I call

26:13

ahead of the medicine. So

26:16

the culture is

26:18

the medicine of the

26:20

culture is do what

26:23

everybody else is doing. Be

26:26

part of the conditioning, be part of

26:29

the cultural norm. Get

26:31

in, don't stand out

26:33

because if you stand out, you

26:36

know, the whole tribal thing, you'll get

26:38

killed, something will happen, it won't be

26:40

good, you'll be ostracized, nobody will love

26:43

you. This is what we're talking about

26:46

is ahead of that. By

26:49

that I mean, it's about,

26:51

yeah, I

26:53

can see that the

26:56

magnetization is to

26:58

fit in and to do what people

27:00

want me to do, to do

27:02

what it looks like people will

27:04

approve of, what my family does,

27:07

what Instagram

27:10

and TikTok say, what,

27:13

you know, just the

27:15

whole thing. But

27:17

you know what, I

27:19

know, and it takes

27:22

a while to get to that you just

27:24

sometimes just get little teeny inklings like you

27:26

knew you wanted to stop eating meat. I

27:31

knew, you know, I was diagnosed

27:33

with breast cancer a couple of years ago.

27:35

I'm fine, thank goodness. One

27:38

of the things that my

27:40

oncologist said to me was stop eating

27:42

any sugar at all. No

27:44

sugar. Cancer

27:47

feeds on sugar. Now, some people believe

27:49

that and some people don't. But I

27:52

decided to stop eating sugar. And, and

27:54

I mean, I had

27:56

read a book a gazillion years

27:58

ago called Sugar Blue. that

28:01

was actually about how terrible sugar was

28:03

for you. It's out of print now.

28:06

My copy probably is worth hundreds and

28:08

hundreds and hundreds of dollars at this

28:11

point. But I remember being shocked that

28:14

this person had stopped eating sugar.

28:17

Because sugar was all I ever wanted to

28:19

eat. Sugar was the reason I ate. Sugar

28:22

was the reason for being alive in

28:24

the food arena. So

28:27

I didn't stop eating

28:30

sugar. I didn't eat that much of it.

28:32

But when the oncologist said, stop eating sugar

28:35

still, the

28:37

amount of pressure,

28:39

light pressure I get, oh,

28:42

have this piece of cake. Oh, have

28:44

this cookie. Oh, I made this. This

28:46

is a homemade thing. Surely this can't

28:48

be so bad. Just even

28:50

that. And

28:52

I'm really good at saying, thanks,

28:55

but no, it still is

28:58

standing out, being alone, but understanding,

29:00

and of course having had cancer

29:02

is a little different than

29:05

making an, well, it's not that different

29:07

than making an elective choice, but deciding,

29:09

no, I'm not gonna do that. It's

29:14

not that hard. It's hard,

29:17

but after the first five or 10 times,

29:19

it's not that hard. Agreed,

29:21

and it's just about, again, reprogramming

29:23

yourself and changing those habits in

29:26

your brain. And I agree with

29:28

you. I stopped eating sugar, like

29:30

processed sugar and added sugar. I

29:32

mean, I eat fruits. I

29:34

eat things that have sugar in it naturally. That's

29:37

fine. But I stopped eating sugar

29:39

a long time ago, and it

29:41

really did help. And it

29:44

seems extreme to other people, but it's the same thing

29:46

as, and I've said this so many times on the

29:48

show. I remember in the 70s, when

29:52

yoga was starting to come into vogue,

29:54

or jogging, you remember when

29:56

jogging? I do. People looked

29:58

at people who were jogging, where

30:01

are you running to? You're insane

30:03

ahead of the medicine. It's such

30:05

a great term because there's so

30:07

many things in our culture that

30:09

at one moment people thought

30:11

you were nuts. Podcasting.

30:14

What are you doing? And now everybody wants

30:16

to be a podcast. Everybody wants to have

30:19

a show in an audience and build all

30:21

this stuff up. And with food and with

30:23

meditation, yoga, I

30:25

mean, vegetarianism, my

30:27

God, I

30:30

mean, we're still beating

30:32

back the images of the

30:35

emaciated, you know, vegetarian

30:37

who just ate carrots all day because there wasn't

30:39

enough information out there about nutrition and about what

30:41

you could eat. And now

30:43

there's bodybuilders and world-class athletes who are

30:45

completely plant-based and it's changed a

30:47

lot. But I love that term that you

30:50

said ahead of the medicine. Yes.

30:53

Right. Now, when

30:58

you are trying to reprogram yourself,

31:01

what can we do to help change

31:04

the record, change those connections in our

31:06

brain? Because so many of us have

31:08

like sugar. Like if I told you,

31:10

I told somebody right now, look,

31:12

you can't eat. It was really interesting on a side

31:14

note this weekend, I was out with some friends and

31:17

some of them, you know, heard that we

31:19

were vegan and they just, they

31:21

literally, they were like freaking out like, oh my God, we're gonna

31:23

go out. Like, where are we gonna go? What are we gonna

31:25

eat? I'm like, guys, calm

31:27

down. You can go anywhere you want.

31:30

Find something to eat there. It'll

31:32

be fine. You know, I'm

31:35

in Austin. This is not the middle

31:37

of nowhere. We could, there's plenty of

31:39

plant-based foods here. And they just,

31:41

and it was such an interesting thing. And

31:43

I could even hear almost little derogatory

31:46

comments quietly just being dropped

31:48

in and like, oh, well, that's not vegan. And

31:50

they were trying to like break down the idea

31:53

of the diet. And I was just like, wow,

31:55

that's interesting. They feel that there's a threat to

31:57

them and their way of life. you're

32:00

doing something different. So that's again,

32:02

that whole reprogramming. So what can we do to

32:04

kind of change the ideas

32:07

in our head about no sugar, no

32:10

meat, or just eating healthy or no fast

32:12

food, or these kinds of things? First

32:15

of all, it's very

32:17

individual. It's what

32:21

feels good. There are

32:23

always two levels,

32:25

and I'm always working with people on

32:27

two levels. One is

32:30

the physical level with what,

32:32

when, and how, also

32:34

where you're actually eating. What,

32:37

when, how, where does

32:40

your eating take place? That is

32:43

really important to pay attention to.

32:46

To start paying attention to

32:50

the way you treat yourself

32:52

around food. Are you

32:55

standing up? Are you grazing at the

32:57

refrigerator? Are you eating at the stove?

32:59

Are you on TikTok

33:02

or Instagram or doing your email or

33:04

talking on the phone when you eat?

33:06

Are you paying

33:08

attention, the quality of your

33:11

attention, just like in meditation,

33:14

where in meditation, you notice

33:16

your thoughts. You are the

33:19

noticer, not

33:21

the noticed. So you're

33:23

witnessing basically what you're

33:25

doing around food. That's part of

33:27

it, is paying

33:30

attention and doing

33:33

it so that there is a

33:37

big element of kindness in

33:40

what you do around food. Kind of, I

33:43

would say, self devotion, tenderness,

33:46

kindness, because the kinder you

33:48

are to yourself, and that's

33:51

different than being indulgent. I'm

33:54

not talking about be kind to

33:56

yourself and go eat six bags of potato

33:58

chips followed by a gallon of ice

34:00

cream, that's not kind. That

34:02

is abusive. So

34:05

kindness is, I encourage

34:08

people, you can

34:11

tell I don't have a lot of men,

34:13

I mostly deal with women, I encourage people

34:15

to talk to themselves and say, okay, sweetheart,

34:18

what, what is it, first

34:20

of all, that's going on, that's sending

34:23

you to food when you're not

34:25

hungry. So the first thing is,

34:27

when are you eating? Are you hungry?

34:33

On a scale of one to 10, one

34:35

is really hungry, five is comfortable, 10

34:37

is stuffed. If you're starting at five,

34:39

you're not hungry at all, you're

34:41

eating for other reasons. And

34:44

then you start asking

34:46

yourself, what are those other reasons? So

34:50

you notice then, if there's that voice

34:52

in your head, is

34:54

that did you get

34:56

triggered? I really, really

34:58

encourage people to notice

35:01

they're triggered. Okay, I was doing fine.

35:05

I didn't want to eat until

35:07

my colleague, my boss, my

35:09

friend, my partner, my kid,

35:11

the kid's teacher, somebody

35:15

made a comment about me

35:17

or one of my kids or my

35:19

work and I got triggered. We'll

35:23

be right back after a word from our sponsor.

35:26

I often get asked why I'm such a big fan

35:28

of wrestling. And it's all thanks

35:30

to my grandma. Growing

35:33

up, we would watch matches together.

35:35

And that bond turned me into a

35:37

lifelong fan. Hi, I'm

35:40

Freddie Prinze Jr. And on my

35:42

podcast, Wrestling with Freddie, we know

35:44

how important it is to have the right teammate because

35:47

things can get pretty tricky quick. So

35:51

when things get complicated and you need help, State

35:54

Farm gives you options. They

35:56

show you what's possible for ensuring what matters

35:58

to you. One of the

36:00

things that matters to me, sharing

36:03

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36:06

And with State Farm's support of the Michael

36:08

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36:10

to do just that. Like a

36:12

good neighbor, State Farm is there.

36:15

Listen to new episodes of your favorite Michael

36:18

Tura shows, wherever you listen

36:20

to podcasts. There's

36:23

no distance too far for the perfect trip. Hi,

36:28

checking in for... Or the perfect

36:30

table. Hey, where are

36:32

you? Coming! And

36:34

when you get access to Resi Priority Notify

36:36

with your Amex Platinum Card... Hey,

36:39

this looks amazing! I'm so glad you

36:41

made it. And travel benefits at

36:43

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36:45

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36:47

That's the powerful backing of American

36:49

Express. Terms apply. Learn more at

36:51

americanexpress.com slash with Amex. And

36:57

that's why I make sure to empower my community

36:59

because a bit of motivation and

37:02

support can go a long way. And

37:04

luckily we have State Farm to support us. Like

37:07

when you talk to a State Farm agent to choose the coverage

37:09

you need and they have the options to protect the things you

37:11

value most. It's the perfect

37:14

positive tip you need. State

37:16

Farm is also a big supporter of the Michael Tura Podcast

37:18

Network. Where we as podcast hosts get

37:20

to share our experiences and stories. Like

37:23

a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Listen

37:26

to new episodes of your favorite Michael Tura shows, wherever

37:28

you listen to podcasts. And

37:34

now back to the show. And

37:37

what true is true is true. And what

37:39

true is true is true. And

37:41

what true is true is true. And

37:44

what true is true is true. And now back to the show. And

37:48

what true and now I find

37:50

suddenly I was feeling great and now

37:52

I feel collapsed. Or I

37:55

feel like something's wrong with me. Like

37:57

that conclusion that we talked about.

38:00

Suddenly, I don't know how it happened. I

38:02

was skipping along or walking along my day.

38:05

Everything was fine. Now I feel like I'm

38:07

two feet tall. I feel

38:09

collapsed. I feel wrong. I feel

38:11

bad. I'm either making

38:13

myself wrong, blaming myself, or I'm

38:15

blaming somebody else. What

38:18

happened? And so this

38:20

requires some degree of kindness and

38:23

tenderness and willingness to say to

38:25

yourself, well, what

38:27

happened when my

38:29

friend didn't text me back? I

38:34

had a story going that

38:37

she's doing other things. She never answers

38:39

my text. She doesn't like me. I

38:42

knew this was going to happen. She

38:45

isn't really my friend. Well,

38:47

forget her. So I

38:50

have now interpreted that, and I'm

38:52

feeling bad about myself. And then

38:54

beneath that, well, forget her is

38:57

a feeling like something's wrong with

38:59

me. And that's

39:01

why I'm turning to food. And that's

39:03

that voice that you're asking me

39:05

about. The voice is, if

39:07

you put it in the U, something

39:10

is wrong with you. You

39:13

did it wrong. You did it bad. You shouldn't

39:15

have texted her. You should have waited two more

39:17

days to text her. You

39:19

should have known this was going

39:21

to happen. She was a lousy pick as

39:23

a friend. You always pick lousy friends. Just

39:25

spiral and you spiral. You're

39:27

spiraling down with that voice.

39:29

When you notice that

39:32

that's happening and

39:35

you notice it on a sensate level,

39:37

usually in your body, small,

39:39

collapse, paralyzed, bad,

39:42

that's when you look back and you say,

39:44

okay, what happened? It takes a little time

39:47

to catch yourself because if what you do

39:49

then is, well, something's wrong

39:51

with me and I might as well eat that,

39:54

then that voice is double because

39:57

then you have basically abandoned

39:59

yourself. yourself, rejected

40:01

yourself by saying something that's

40:04

wrong with me. That's self

40:06

judgment, that's self rejection, that's

40:08

abandonment, because you were feeling

40:11

hurt. And so you

40:13

came right in with, well, you should

40:15

have known that you shouldn't have texted

40:17

her, you should wait longer than you

40:19

took something that's wrong with you.

40:22

And so you

40:24

rejected yourself there, you abandoned

40:26

yourself rejection and abandoned self

40:28

abandoned same and then

40:30

you reject and abandoned yourself by eating. To

40:34

make it better. And abuse yourself. So now we have

40:36

a double whammy. We have

40:38

the whammy of she

40:40

didn't text me and I feel,

40:43

you know, hurt about

40:45

that. Let me see

40:47

if I can see what I

40:49

believe about that. What's the conclusion

40:51

I'm making about

40:53

myself? Because my

40:56

best friend didn't

40:58

text me. I'm

41:00

feeling like something's wrong with

41:02

me. I'm feeling like I'm

41:05

overwhelming. I want too much. I'm too

41:07

needy. Then I get to

41:09

step in and be with myself

41:12

there and just like put my

41:14

hand on my heart, say, Oh,

41:16

sweetheart, you know, is that actually

41:18

true? You know, that Byron Katie

41:21

question that first question, is

41:23

that true? And most

41:26

of the time, you will know immediately no,

41:28

it's not true. And you'll

41:30

be able to be

41:34

the one you're waiting for food isn't what

41:36

you're waiting for. And your

41:38

friends text isn't what you're waiting

41:40

for. It's you being with you

41:43

that you're waiting for and you

41:45

have left yourself until

41:47

you come back to yourself. And

41:49

when you come back to yourself,

41:51

that voice goes away. Yes,

41:58

agree with everything you just said, because as

42:01

I, you know, on the show,

42:03

as I speak to more spiritual masters and

42:05

yogis and things like that, a lot of

42:08

the like, keep hearing common threads. And

42:10

you said something so interesting, that

42:13

when you come back to yourself, is when

42:16

you're looking for things outside of yourself

42:18

for happiness, you're gonna, you're gonna

42:20

fail. When you look for outside things,

42:22

to make yourself happy, you need to be

42:24

happy inside of yourself. So my

42:26

next question is, why are

42:29

we so damn tough

42:31

on ourselves? So brutal with

42:33

our voice to ourselves, we beat ourselves up

42:35

more than we say things to ourselves that

42:37

we would never in a million years say

42:39

to another human being. Why

42:41

is that? You

42:44

know, there are a couple of

42:46

reasons for that one is developmental.

42:48

So the super ego, which

42:51

is that inner judge, inner parent,

42:53

critical parent, whatever you want to

42:55

call it, is developmental, and

42:57

all of us have it, all of

42:59

us have one. So there

43:02

is no way of ordering it,

43:04

it's installed, you keep using the

43:06

word programmed, which is a great

43:08

word, because that program, super

43:10

ego program is installed, it's

43:13

installed in us before we even know what's

43:15

going on. What's

43:17

also installed, Alex, is

43:20

what you said before that, which

43:23

is that we believe

43:25

since being a kid, that the

43:27

answer and the love is out

43:29

there. And that

43:31

if only we could get it in

43:35

the right combination,

43:37

the right person, the

43:39

right success, the right amount

43:41

of money, the right house,

43:43

the right friend, the

43:46

right partner, the right

43:49

dog, the right job, the

43:52

right anything, then

43:55

we would be happy and that

43:57

comes from being a kid as well. because

44:00

you're dependent on other people for

44:02

your survival. So we get

44:05

used to looking out there for

44:08

the answer. And until

44:10

we realize, and

44:13

this really takes a

44:15

while, because

44:18

you look around and everybody's looking for it out

44:20

there. And the right weight,

44:23

the right body, the right

44:25

six pack, you said, the

44:30

right amount of muscles, tone, the

44:34

right whole thing, you

44:37

fill in the blank. If

44:39

I only had fill

44:42

in the blank, then I would be

44:44

happy. And the

44:46

thing is that even though many

44:48

of us, many

44:50

of us, I would reckon

44:53

to say that almost everybody who's

44:55

listening to this has

44:58

already had the experience

45:01

dozens of times of

45:04

getting what they thought was

45:06

gonna do it. Even

45:08

if it's a

45:11

piece of cake, or it's

45:14

a job, or it's

45:17

a relationship, or

45:20

losing weight. I mean, I start off

45:23

every workshop I do by

45:25

asking people, how

45:29

many of you have been on a

45:31

diet? And everybody raises their hand.

45:34

How many of you have lost weight on that diet?

45:37

Everybody raises their hand. How

45:39

many of you believed before you

45:41

went on that diet that

45:44

losing weight was going

45:46

to make you happy? Everybody

45:48

raises their hand. Some of

45:50

them are just not very happy about raising their hand,

45:53

because they know where I'm going. And

45:55

how many of you

45:57

were actually once and for all.

46:00

forever happy when you lost weight. And

46:03

of course, nobody can raise their hand. We've

46:05

gone from everybody to nobody because they wouldn't

46:07

be sitting in a workshop with me if

46:10

they were forever happy. So

46:13

everybody has had the experience

46:16

of getting something out there that

46:19

we thought would make us happy

46:21

in here. And it didn't do

46:23

it. But it's almost like this.

46:26

Well, first of all, it's a

46:28

habit. It's a cultural habit.

46:31

And we keep believing we keep

46:33

persisting. I've had people say to

46:35

me, I have lost weight 30

46:38

times in my life. And I still

46:40

believe that if only I could do

46:42

it one more time, one

46:44

more time, I

46:47

would never have to do it again. Because

46:50

each of those 30 times something happened,

46:52

my mother got sick, my kid got

46:54

sick, my husband left me, I lost

46:56

my job, you know, like that, a

46:59

friend moved

47:02

across the country, there's always a reason.

47:05

Another outside reason why we

47:08

leave ourselves. Yes.

47:15

Yes, everything you just said, it's, it's

47:18

so it's so fascinating to see what we

47:21

do to ourselves. It's

47:23

you know, you go back, you look back at what you've

47:25

done to yourself. And this is only actually, as you said,

47:27

it takes time, you look back at the years. And

47:30

you're like, Okay, in my 20s, when I thought

47:32

when I said I looked horrible, you go back

47:34

and like, I would kill to look like right

47:37

here. And people like, Oh, my 30s. I'm like,

47:42

you killed it looked like you did in your 30s, or feel

47:44

like you felt in your 30s. You

47:46

know, and it's, it's just this

47:48

vicious thing that we keep doing with ourselves.

47:51

And that's so interesting that Like

48:00

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48:28

get asked why I'm such a big fan of wrestling.

48:31

And it's all thanks to my grandma. Growing

48:34

up, we would watch matches together, and

48:36

that bond turned me into a lifelong

48:39

fan. Hi, I'm

48:41

Freddie Prinze Jr. And on

48:43

my podcast Wrestling with Freddie, we

48:45

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48:48

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when things get complicated and you need help, State

48:55

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show you what's possible for ensuring what matters

49:00

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49:02

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And with State Farm's support of the Mike

49:09

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49:13

good neighbor, State Farm is there.

49:17

Listen to new episodes of your favorite Mike

49:19

Altura shows, wherever you listen

49:21

to podcasts. There

49:25

are some things that are too good to keep a secret.

49:27

Platinum card helps you have the perfect trip. Like how your Amex

49:29

Platinum card helps you have the perfect trip. I'd

49:32

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49:35

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49:37

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49:39

you get the most out of select Can't Miss events.

49:42

to the Centurion Lounge, With access

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Express. Terms apply. Learn more at

49:54

americanexpress.com/ with Amex. And

49:58

now, back to the show. You

50:02

know, I've met people who are truly,

50:05

if not

50:07

close to really feel

50:09

comfortable in their own skin. And

50:13

when you meet those kinds of people, there is

50:15

an energy, there's a confidence, there's a, it's not

50:17

arrogance, there's just a truth, a knowing within

50:20

themselves about themselves that you

50:22

can feel. You can feel it.

50:24

You can feel it. You could

50:27

also feel someone who's extremely insecure. Like

50:29

I told you before we started, I work in the

50:31

film industry, so you can only imagine what

50:34

I've had to see. And you know,

50:36

you work with, you know, some of these major

50:38

movie stars and you go, Oh, I understand why

50:40

they, people are attracted

50:42

to them. There's an energy about them. There's

50:44

this thing. But then when you dig

50:47

in deeper, you're like, wow, then, you know,

50:49

once you get past the glamour

50:51

and you look at the human, like

50:53

they're struggling with things that we can't even

50:56

comprehend. You know, like you

50:58

and I, you know, we're, you

51:00

know, semi public figures, but we're not

51:02

Brad Pitt, you know? So can

51:04

you imagine the kind of stress that they're under? Well,

51:08

I think what it does is

51:10

put stress on just

51:13

like anything external like that, any

51:15

kind of pressure or need to

51:17

look a certain way or be

51:20

a certain way. Anything

51:24

that really emphasizes

51:27

image puts pressure

51:30

on all the different parts of

51:33

you that don't believe that, that

51:35

don't believe the story, that

51:37

believe you are not worth it. There's

51:40

a big difference. And people

51:42

know this. I read something

51:44

that Will Smith said a couple

51:47

months ago, I guess it's in his

51:49

book, where he said

51:51

before he got famous, he believed

51:54

that being famous was really good.

51:56

And this is the power phrase,

51:58

heal every. thing that

52:02

was uncomfortable, that

52:04

needed to be healed. And then he

52:06

got famous. And

52:08

that and it didn't heal those things. And

52:12

there was no if only I were

52:14

famous, it would all be good. And

52:17

I think that discrepancy between

52:19

that big public figure in

52:21

this, like Anthony

52:23

Bourdain, I was

52:25

just reading about him recently. There was

52:28

a big article in The Times, I

52:30

guess there's a new biography about him

52:32

and the last couple of texts. He

52:35

said, I'm so lonely. I

52:38

hate my job. I

52:42

don't like being famous. He

52:44

had the, you know, he

52:47

had supposedly everything. Fame,

52:50

money, good looks, a

52:52

fabulous job, travel, but

52:54

whatever was, let's just

52:56

call it unresolved, unhealed

52:59

the parts of him

53:01

that he didn't love.

53:04

And so that's why this work that

53:06

we're talking about doing is so

53:09

important to do. Because just

53:11

what you said, when somebody

53:13

is comfortable

53:16

in their own skin, when

53:18

they don't leave themselves, when they

53:21

have presence, you feel that, but

53:23

when somebody doesn't have and so

53:25

that radiates out. And

53:28

you treat them appropriately

53:31

with respect. There's a sense of, oh,

53:35

wow. You know,

53:37

there's a kind of uprightness.

53:39

But when somebody is radiating

53:41

because of feeling, I'm

53:44

not okay. I'm broken. Something's

53:46

wrong with me. They

53:48

radiate that as

53:51

well. And you pick that up. It's

53:55

so interesting. And it comes back. It's like

53:57

a radio tower where you're emitting a

53:59

freak. of,

54:03

I realized that with

54:05

some friendships I've had, where

54:07

I kept feeling like,

54:09

why are these falling into the same

54:11

pattern? And then I realized

54:13

there was a very deep belief that

54:16

I was having about not being

54:18

good enough, somehow radiating that out, coming

54:21

back in the way these friends treated

54:24

me. And I kept thinking it was out

54:26

there instead of in

54:28

here. You know,

54:30

it's when I had some

54:33

relatives come over with some young boys

54:36

that were unruly, let's say, and

54:38

the parents didn't

54:41

seem to have a real good control of

54:43

them. Like just they, you can just sense

54:45

they were just, I can't, I can't. And

54:48

then they would run into my friend, who is

54:50

one of these people who is very,

54:54

you just meet them and you go,

54:56

oh, they, they, they demand respect without

54:58

saying a word. Yeah. And

55:01

the kids picked up on it. And the

55:03

parents were like, how are you doing

55:05

that? And she's like, I'm just doing,

55:07

I'm just being me. And

55:09

those kids were angels around

55:12

my friend, angels around my

55:14

friend. It is so true. It's that energy

55:16

that you put out and people do feel

55:18

it, you know, and you can

55:21

go woo woo about it or not. It's like,

55:23

I'm no, and I always use this example. I

55:25

know many people at one point or another have

55:27

gone into a car dealership and wanted to take

55:29

a shower afterwards because

55:31

of like, oh, I feel so sleazy with

55:33

these, you know, this person or you've met

55:35

someone who's made you feel that way, whether

55:37

it's a woman who's getting picked up at

55:39

the bar by some sleazeball, or

55:41

you meet a sleazy salesperson or something

55:43

like that, that you feel that energy. And

55:46

that comes from within, which

55:48

is what goes back to the theme that

55:50

we're talking about is understanding that

55:53

what we are looking for is inside

55:55

of us. And that's what

55:57

all the great sages and all the great texts,

56:00

spiritual texts throughout history have said.

56:03

And food is just another, it's

56:05

the food is the Porsche, it's the job,

56:07

it's the thing. But food, unlike those other

56:09

things, have an immediate effect

56:12

on us. And that's the

56:14

blessing of it. So the

56:16

great blessing is that it's

56:18

a portal, an immediate portal

56:22

to what's going

56:24

on inside. So

56:26

if you find yourself standing up,

56:28

grazing, overeating, binging, eating things that

56:31

make you sick, that's

56:33

a red flag. That's

56:35

the time. Because, you know, I often say

56:37

that you eat the way you live, and

56:39

you live the way you eat. So

56:42

eating the way you live means

56:44

that there's some kind

56:48

of belief that's

56:50

operating there. Do you believe you

56:52

deserve pleasure? Do you believe you

56:54

can get enough? Do you believe

56:56

you need to deprive yourself in

56:58

order to be okay? What do

57:00

you actually believe about being alive?

57:02

Because that absolutely

57:05

shows up in your relationship with food,

57:08

which is a fabulous

57:10

part, immediate part. It's

57:12

like food is a Rorschach test. You

57:14

know, I don't mean it a test, but

57:16

you get to see immediately what

57:19

you're believing in that moment

57:21

about yourself, and

57:25

about living that

57:27

day. I'm not okay. I don't

57:29

deserve this. Or, you know,

57:31

I do. Part of what I'm

57:34

talking about, and the process that

57:36

I teach is that when

57:39

you see that, because

57:42

I've just or you've just eaten or I've

57:44

just eaten, let's just say I've just eaten

57:46

a lot

57:49

of chocolate to the point where I'm sick,

57:51

then I get to say, okay,

57:54

honey, now I can go either one way

57:56

or the other. I can say, you know,

57:58

you've written 10 books about this

58:00

and you've eaten how

58:02

much chocolate? Really? You

58:05

hypocrite. How could you

58:07

do that? Or, and that's the

58:10

way the voice talks. I

58:12

call it the GPS from the Twilight

58:14

Zone, that voice. Or you can

58:16

say, wow, that's

58:20

a lot of chocolate for somebody

58:22

who wasn't really hungry. What's going

58:25

on? And

58:27

then I can sit down and the quicker

58:31

you can forgive yourself,

58:34

be tender with yourself, be

58:37

kind to yourself. Kindness

58:40

and relaxation are the

58:42

answers, Alex. Because the

58:46

quicker you can do that, the

58:48

more truthful you can become, the

58:50

more authentic you can become. And

58:52

what every spiritual teacher says somewhere

58:57

in their teachings is

58:59

that the truth will set

59:01

you free. And it

59:04

starts with

59:07

being authentic in this moment with

59:09

the teeny, teeny, teeny little things

59:12

you do every day in

59:15

which you are leaving

59:17

yourself or lying to yourself. A

59:19

friend said to me, actually, it wasn't a

59:22

friend, it was one of my teachers who

59:24

said to me, when one

59:26

of my friendships

59:28

with women exploded years

59:30

ago, when was the first, what

59:32

was the first lie you told

59:35

yourself about this person?

59:37

And that stopped me in my tracks

59:40

because I knew from the get

59:42

go, but I didn't want to

59:44

know what I knew. And sometimes

59:46

I will often say to my

59:49

students, what do you

59:51

know about your relationship with food

59:53

that you don't want to know?

1:00:06

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And now back to the show. Because

1:01:22

you know, you know what it is.

1:01:25

Well, I know that I

1:01:32

eat whenever I feel hurt or bread

1:01:39

does not actually agree to me, but

1:01:41

I love it and I won't give

1:01:43

it up. I remember the first time

1:01:45

somebody told me that I was allergic.

1:01:47

I had some time gliadin some kind

1:01:50

of enzyme and I couldn't eat gluten.

1:01:52

This was 22 years ago and I was

1:01:55

on my way to Greece and I refused

1:01:57

to give up eating baklava. It was

1:02:00

was, I mean, I mean,

1:02:02

okay, right. It's baklava. I mean,

1:02:04

it's baklava. But guess what? Guess

1:02:06

what? It has been in gluten.

1:02:08

And I just felt like no,

1:02:11

I'm not doing that line in the sand. That's

1:02:14

right. So

1:02:16

um, so

1:02:19

you become authentic,

1:02:21

truthful, you start

1:02:24

listening to yourself and you realize

1:02:27

that what anybody else is saying

1:02:29

to you know, of course, you

1:02:31

need information and you need all

1:02:35

kinds of things. But you

1:02:37

already know what you know.

1:02:39

And if you don't know, you ask yourself, what

1:02:41

do you know that you don't want to know? And

1:02:44

that will often get to

1:02:46

it because that is the

1:02:49

beginning. That's the where the

1:02:51

thread starts. If you totally

1:02:53

that whole bowl of wool

1:02:55

gets totally rolled out there,

1:02:57

it starts with the thread. And that's the

1:02:59

thread. You I

1:03:01

think you once said in an interview

1:03:04

that food is spiritual. Can

1:03:06

you can you dig into that a little bit for me?

1:03:09

Well, what I meant by that

1:03:11

was exactly what we're talking about,

1:03:14

which is that if you

1:03:16

follow the portal or the

1:03:19

doorway to what

1:03:22

you're doing with food, you know, one

1:03:24

of the things I wrote in Women

1:03:26

Food and God was we don't want

1:03:28

to eat hot front sundaes as much

1:03:30

as we want our lives to be

1:03:32

hot front sundaes. We

1:03:34

want to be the

1:03:36

fullest expression of

1:03:38

who we are. We want to

1:03:41

be lit up. We want

1:03:43

to know why we're here and

1:03:45

we want to

1:03:48

express that that

1:03:52

you know, there's a quote by Eckhart Tolle that I

1:03:54

love, that he says, many

1:03:56

things matter in your life, but only

1:03:58

one thing matters at absolutely. And

1:04:01

what matters absolutely is this

1:04:05

is to know yourself.

1:04:07

That was on the door of the

1:04:09

Oracle at Delphi know thyself.

1:04:13

And so what food

1:04:15

helps you do by

1:04:18

being an out picturing of

1:04:21

what you believe about yourself is

1:04:23

it helps you to know

1:04:26

what you're believing about yourself. And

1:04:29

it helps you see the ways

1:04:31

you're not allowing yourself to be

1:04:33

lit up the obstacles that

1:04:35

you are putting in your own way, the

1:04:37

beliefs you have that are not true. Did

1:04:40

you ever see a baby maybe except for

1:04:42

Rosemary's baby? And you know, which was a

1:04:44

devil baby. And I'm sure many of you

1:04:46

don't even know that movie. But in any

1:04:48

case, it was a devil's baby, except for

1:04:50

Rosemary's baby. Babies

1:04:53

are poor and clear, and lit and

1:04:58

unobstructed. And they don't take

1:05:00

themselves to be a self,

1:05:03

a solid self. Until

1:05:05

they're told, this is who you are.

1:05:07

This is your body. This is your name. This is

1:05:09

what you feel. This is what you can do. This

1:05:11

is what you can't do. But what

1:05:14

we want to do, and what

1:05:16

food is a doorway to doing, and this

1:05:18

is the part that spiritual is

1:05:20

help you see who you

1:05:22

actually are, when you're

1:05:24

not adapting to your outside environment,

1:05:26

when you're not leaving yourself,

1:05:29

abandoning yourself, when you're speaking the truth,

1:05:31

when you're being true to yourself, that

1:05:33

is spiritual.

1:05:37

That's as another teacher of mine

1:05:39

says, the higher octave of love.

1:05:44

Great answer. That's a great,

1:05:46

great answer. Now, do you have any

1:05:48

tips for us on how we

1:05:50

should approach eating and approach food in

1:05:53

general? Well, I do

1:05:55

have a set of eating guidelines that

1:05:57

are online that are in my book,

1:05:59

which and food and God. I think

1:06:02

they're all over the place by now

1:06:04

that I wrote them when

1:06:06

I first started this work. So it's

1:06:09

been decades. And they mostly have to

1:06:11

do with paying

1:06:13

attention to your hunger, paying attention to

1:06:15

food, figuring out what your body and

1:06:17

that your mind wants, stopping when you've

1:06:19

had enough, sitting

1:06:22

down, not lying

1:06:24

about food. Because when you lie

1:06:26

about what you eat, you're

1:06:29

basically saying to yourself, if

1:06:31

they, the people I'm lying

1:06:34

to saw me, they wouldn't love me,

1:06:36

therefore I must hide and therefore I

1:06:38

must sneak. And

1:06:40

so those guidelines

1:06:43

are really, truly about

1:06:47

paying attention and being kind to

1:06:49

yourself. And then I've been taking

1:06:52

people through a process now where

1:06:54

I say to them, because

1:06:57

at my retreats, which

1:06:59

I teach twice a year, the

1:07:02

first session, well the second session actually,

1:07:04

because the first session is stillness

1:07:07

and movement, a little Tai

1:07:10

Chi. But after that, it's we all

1:07:12

eat together and we all bring our

1:07:14

meals. And so even on

1:07:16

Zoom, we all eat together. And

1:07:19

I say to people, show me your food.

1:07:21

And so they show all their plates of

1:07:23

food. And after I asked

1:07:26

them about the hunger scales, I will

1:07:28

then say, who

1:07:32

chose this food? And

1:07:35

of course, they chose it, nobody,

1:07:38

but they didn't really choose that

1:07:40

food. What the answers will be,

1:07:42

will be, well, the four year old

1:07:44

whose mother told her she couldn't

1:07:46

have mashed potatoes chose this

1:07:48

food. The nine year old who was

1:07:50

told she shouldn't eat bread. She's the

1:07:53

one who chose this food. The

1:07:55

14 year old who is

1:07:57

absolutely determined now these women are

1:08:02

30, 40, 50, 60, 14-year-old who

1:08:04

was told that her legs were too

1:08:07

fat and she needed to go on

1:08:09

a diet and she's the one who's

1:08:11

basically saying, screw you, I'm not going

1:08:13

to. And not only am I not

1:08:15

going to go on a diet, I'm going to eat everything in

1:08:17

sight. So it's

1:08:19

really important when you're choosing

1:08:21

the food. And you know,

1:08:24

Alex, I would say that

1:08:26

because these habits are so ingrained

1:08:28

and as you called it installed,

1:08:30

we need support. You

1:08:33

know, it's very hard to do

1:08:35

this alone. We can get it

1:08:37

and we know what

1:08:40

she's saying is true or something rings

1:08:43

true for me. But what

1:08:45

I have seen in myself and also with

1:08:47

the students that I work with, I

1:08:50

have a group of about 70 or 80 ongoing

1:08:53

students that I've been tracking, some

1:08:55

of which only a few months,

1:08:57

but some of which a couple of years

1:08:59

and some of which many is 10 years. How

1:09:03

much kindness

1:09:05

and support it takes

1:09:08

to, it's like we're standing, the

1:09:10

culture is the tsunami coming towards

1:09:13

us. And we're saying, okay,

1:09:15

I know I can eat when I'm hungry.

1:09:17

I know I can pay attention, but which

1:09:19

is basically the saying the same as I

1:09:21

can surf the tsunami. This

1:09:24

tsunami is in kind of, and you need

1:09:26

support to do it. However

1:09:30

you get it. Now, you

1:09:32

mentioned something earlier about the

1:09:35

mostly, most of your students are women.

1:09:38

Do you have men and how do you

1:09:40

approach this in a male?

1:09:42

Because men, I think more now than

1:09:44

ever are dealing with a lot of

1:09:46

the struggles that were closeted before are

1:09:50

now coming out for men of like,

1:09:52

we're struggling with this too. Because we have the

1:09:55

same images, we have the same programming, we had

1:09:57

the same people telling us growing up, you're too

1:09:59

chunky. You got to get big muscles, you

1:10:01

got this or that, you need that six pack. How

1:10:04

do you approach that with men? We

1:10:07

all want the same thing, Alex. This

1:10:10

is not gender specific. I

1:10:12

started out working with

1:10:15

women when I started my little teeny

1:10:17

groups in Santa Cruz for which I

1:10:19

charged a dollar a night. It's

1:10:24

not gender specific because

1:10:27

we all have these unavoidable

1:10:29

conclusions. We've come

1:10:31

to, I'm wrong, I'm bad, I'm not

1:10:33

lovable, I'm too

1:10:35

much, I'm needy, I'll never make it,

1:10:39

I'm ugly, I'm worthless. And

1:10:43

we act those out without realizing we

1:10:45

act those out through our relationship with

1:10:47

food. And so it's

1:10:49

not really gender specific. We all want

1:10:52

the same things. We want to be

1:10:55

ourselves, to feel like I'm allowed

1:10:58

I'm allowed to take up space here,

1:11:00

this, and I'm

1:11:02

allowed to have joy and pleasure

1:11:04

and be lit up. We'll

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be right back after a word from our sponsor.

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a limited time. Who's thirsty? And

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now back to the show. Now

1:12:48

I'm gonna ask you a few questions. Ask all of

1:12:50

my guests. What is your

1:12:53

definition of a good life? My

1:12:57

definition of a good life is to...

1:13:05

Understand that many

1:13:08

times who I take myself to be is

1:13:11

not actually who I am and be able

1:13:13

to question it. And

1:13:16

realize that I took on

1:13:18

something that wasn't mine. And

1:13:21

up comes what is mine, which

1:13:24

is really most of the time a sense

1:13:26

of joy and peace and clarity. What

1:13:30

is your mission in this life? To

1:13:33

express that. And

1:13:36

I feel like I was given

1:13:38

certain gifts really, like

1:13:41

writing. I discovered writing or

1:13:44

writing discovered me when I

1:13:46

was in fifth grade. And

1:13:48

so that's a gift that I want to

1:13:50

be true to and

1:13:52

keep expressing what I know. Cause not

1:13:54

everybody likes to write. Not everybody wants

1:13:57

to put into words what's going on,

1:13:59

but... but in the act of putting

1:14:01

it into words, many people can read

1:14:03

it. So I think it's

1:14:05

being true to that gift

1:14:07

and also to speaking it

1:14:09

to teaching. And

1:14:12

where can people find out more about you

1:14:14

and your events and your seminars and retreats?

1:14:17

I think you have a retreat coming up.

1:14:19

What can they find out more about that stuff? They

1:14:22

can find out at

1:14:25

jeanneroth.com under events. There's

1:14:29

also a lot of free stuff there. There

1:14:32

are a lot of downloads. There are a

1:14:34

lot of articles. I do a

1:14:37

blog on Facebook. The

1:14:42

retreats are twice a year. There are six days

1:14:44

and they're immersive

1:14:47

experiences with layers

1:14:50

and layers and layers and layers of

1:14:52

support after that. And then I do

1:14:54

public events as well. So

1:14:56

all of that. I really encourage people

1:14:58

to find out more and to

1:15:01

go to my website to find out more. jeanneroth.com

1:15:03

And when is that new the retreat?

1:15:05

I know it's coming up in November,

1:15:07

right? Yeah, that retreat is

1:15:10

I'm pretty sure it's November 8th

1:15:13

to I'll tell you in a sec. November

1:15:16

8th to the 13th. All

1:15:19

right. And I'm also doing a free

1:15:22

event, but you can

1:15:24

also find that out at the website.

1:15:27

Janine, it has been such a pleasure and honor speaking

1:15:29

to you. I want to thank you so

1:15:31

much for all the amazing work you've done over the decades and

1:15:34

really helping people with this, because I think it's something that

1:15:36

we all think every human being almost

1:15:39

on this planet has to do with at one point or another in

1:15:41

their lives. So I truly, truly appreciate you being

1:15:43

on the show and thank you again for all your

1:15:46

love and support to people. So thank you. Oh,

1:15:48

Alex, you have such a big heart and

1:15:51

you're so earnest

1:15:53

and sincere about

1:15:56

what you say and how you say it.

1:15:58

So thank you. It's been. and a

1:16:01

pleasure and a privilege. I

1:16:04

wanna thank Janine so much for coming on

1:16:06

the show and sharing her knowledge with all

1:16:09

of us. If you wanna get links to

1:16:11

anything we spoke about in this episode, head

1:16:13

over to the show notes at nextlevelsoul.com forward

1:16:16

slash one four four. And

1:16:18

if you've only been listening

1:16:20

to this over podcasts and

1:16:22

you wanna watch these amazing

1:16:24

conversations, please subscribe to our

1:16:26

YouTube channel at nextlevelsoul.com forward

1:16:29

slash YouTube. Thank you

1:16:31

so much for listening. And remember, trust

1:16:33

the journey. It is here to teach

1:16:35

you. I'll talk to you soon. We

1:16:41

are audiostack.ai. Combining

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Cs. Audiostack.ai/contest.

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At Giant Eagle, you may have spotted

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items. Restrictions apply. We

1:17:41

are audiostack.ai. Combining

1:17:43

AI writing the best synthetic voices.

1:17:45

With production and delivery. Be

1:17:47

it ads, podcasts, or VOs for video. Just

1:17:49

like this ad. How would you utilize

1:17:52

AI audio? For free. Go

1:17:56

to audiostack.ai/contest. Give us just a

1:17:58

few details. And you could replace

1:18:00

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1:18:04

C's. AudioStack.ai/contest.

1:18:10

At Giant Eagle, you may have

1:18:12

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1:18:37

items. Restrictions apply.