0:10

- It down from tips, trick, everything in

0:14

between it.

0:42

- Here we are, Rob, with another edition

0:44

of The New Media Show Pot on Fire. <laugh>.

0:49

- Yeah, <laugh>. It's definitely a little loud

0:51

still. Yeah, A little - Loud.

0:54

Well, you know, I, I have to, it comes across to us loud,

0:56

but it doesn't go over on the stream super loud. - Oh, that's good. So - I've got,

1:00

I've gotta get it leveled out yet. So, you know, that's, uh,

1:03

that's the thing that has to happen. But anyway, welcome to the show.

1:10

Are you still here? - Right. Oh, okay.

1:14

- It's awesome. Okay. It's awesome. This appeared there for a second. So here we are.

1:19

And I am back from, uh, podcast Movement Evolutions.

1:25

Are you there, Rob? Uh, I'm not hearing you.

1:33

- So podcast movement. Okay. So you were there.

1:37

I was not <laugh>. Um, but I did try and,

1:40

and participate by doing a live show on Wednesday night. So.

1:44

- Oh, so how, how did that, how did that go?

1:47

- It went okay. It was just a little bit hard

1:49

because people are so busy at the conference running around.

1:51

Yeah. It was hard to catch people in between going

1:55

to meetups or going to different sessions to get them

1:58

to call into the, to the app, the guest app that,

2:02

uh, the Streamy Yard has. So,

2:04

- Yeah. Well, I, I tell you the, um, the event was,

2:10

man, it was B2B big time. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, um, I think we talked

2:14

to 10 existing podcasters. Mm-Hmm.

2:19

- <affirmative> - And, uh, a few new podcasters,

2:23

but a lot of people were there to talk business

2:25

and to be honest with you, uh,

2:28

I don't know if we'll do the show again. We did sign up for another booth.

2:32

Uh, we got our number one pick where we wanted to be,

2:35

but, you know, I don't know. This thing's going to Chicago

2:38

and it might be just worth it just to go

2:41

and not have a, have a booth. I, I don't, we had some, you know, had some decent

2:47

meetings, um Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But again, I could have

2:50

done those without a booth. Right. We talked to a ton of people about bid deposit.

2:55

Matter of fact, we, um, I would imagine we signed up about a, a dozen

2:59

creators on bid to pod right at the show, um, which was curious.

3:05

And, you know, they, they were blown away.

3:07

Uh, that was good. But I'll be kind of frank with you.

3:11

The, the, um, The networking

3:16

really, besides the general crowd you

3:19

and I hang out with, then the evenings wasn't much better than that.

3:23

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, um, LA Live is very, very expensive.

3:26

That area. Um, you know, we,

3:29

the cheapest place we found was a smashburger for two of us,

3:32

and I think we got out for 50 bucks and we considered ourselves lucky.

3:36

Wow. And every other meal was, you know, 200, you know,

3:40

and not a cheap place to go drinks in a hotel were $16

3:45

for a mixed drink, 10 bucks for a, for a beer.

3:49

And, um, and it was very, you know,

3:52

as you would expect it, place to be seen.

3:56

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And, but next year move it to Chicago.

3:59

So I, I don't know. Uh, we'll see. But the wouldn't

4:03

- They have chosen to move it to, of all places of Chicago?

4:06

- I, I don't know. I I I really don't. And, uh,

4:10

- Well, it's closer for you. - Yeah. It's closer, you know, and, and the,

4:14

and the booth prices were a little bit, I guess, more reasonable.

4:18

I think it's the same as we paid last year. I dunno, 32 50 for a 10 by eight.

4:23

Uh, that's the early bird special if we pay for it,

4:26

you know, again, I have to pay for it Mm-Hmm. In the next 30 days or something like that to get

4:29

that discount. So again, it's really gonna, if Mike

4:33

and I can close the B2B deals, then maybe it's gonna work be worth going again.

4:37

And we had networks we talked to, so then, you know,

4:40

if we get the two network clients that had fairly large shows that're largely moving

4:46

because we're doing podcasting 2.0, they wanna implement

4:48

that stuff and the hosts they're on is not doing that.

4:52

Um, we did have a PSP meeting.

4:57

Um, yeah. And Sam Yeah,

4:59

- I heard about that. Yeah. 'cause I had, um, Sam's

5:03

Sam Sethy called into my live show on Wednesday. So,

5:07

- So Sam is gonna be our spokesperson

5:09

for at least the next year. And coordinating messaging

5:12

and everything that's going on with that. And there was some decisions made on things

5:15

that we've already implemented that other hosts are gonna try to get implemented.

5:20

Pod roll and some other things. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.

5:23

So, you know, from that perspective, it was, uh, it was good.

5:27

Um, but I'll be honest with you,

5:30

they saved the YouTube thing near to the end of the show.

5:33

And I don't know if they did that to get people

5:36

to stay on Friday. 'cause we had, I mean, we had no traffic.

5:40

I think we had talked to one person at the booth Friday.

5:42

There was no reason to have the booth Friday.

5:44

We should have just Wednesday, Thursday. That should have been it. And I would've went home Friday.

5:49

I would definitely would not have stuck around for the YouTube announcement,

5:52

because what a bunch of arrogant,

5:56

condescending, weird God.

6:00

It just came across to me as that, you know, they, they act like they own the space.

6:10

And, um, and without addressing, really,

6:13

without addressing any of the feedback that they're getting

6:18

from creators, everything that has been said to them,

6:23

they have ignored, and I fully expected this

6:25

because they're just doing YouTube channel stuff.

6:28

They're doing YouTube. They're not doing podcasting.

6:31

They're calling at that. And, you know, they,

6:33

they put out a bunch of, you know, they showed a couple

6:36

of shows that I looked at, um,

6:39

that I'd never heard of before. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and,

6:44

but they didn't highlight, you know, they, the, I mean,

6:48

we go, if you go through that podcast playlist on YouTube,

6:51

there's very few shows that are, you know, that are indies.

6:56

You know, they're, they, you're buried down in the,

6:59

in the bowels of YouTube. Um, I started writing a, uh, uh, you know, about the Google

7:06

Google Podcast shutdown. I started writing. I, I, matter of fact,

7:09

I've got it about three quarters of the way down. And it's, it's, you know, it's angry Todd

7:15

on them pulling the plug on Google Podcasts

7:18

and their indecision and non-trust worthiness of Conti.

7:23

You know, and, you know, maybe they, maybe they need to hear this.

7:26

It's just they're doing API stuff for developer,

7:29

for podcast hosts. I, I, I could be honest with you, I don't care.

7:35

I, I really, honestly don't care.

7:38

Um, because we have not gotten any pushback from many

7:42

of our customers. Um, a lot of folks are waking up that video is hard, uh,

7:49

not worth the time and effort. Yeah. Some shows are gonna be doing well,

7:54

but, uh, I, I'm, I'm kind of over it to be, to be frank.

7:58

And the way they, and, uh, the presentation that they,

8:04

I was really, really surprised. They, they should have practiced their presentation.

8:08

Uh, I'd be fired. I would be fired if I gave a presentation,

8:13

um, as being un un it appeared to be unprepared.

8:18

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Uh, so, you know,

8:21

nothing against those two, but maybe someone put slides

8:25

together and then they had to, had to, uh, speak to them

8:29

because it, it, it didn't feel like they had actually put

8:33

the slides together themselves. Probably their PR team or somebody did. So,

8:39

- So what were they, they kind of pushing on stage?

8:43

What was the aspect of the platform that they were

8:47

- Highlighting? My takeaway was, we're YouTube and where God,

8:53

- So how did they symbolize that up on stage?

8:56

- No, it just basically, you know, they, they give them credit.

8:59

They tried to say, Hey, this is raw. This is place to get discovered

9:03

and dah, dah, dah da, you know, all the same talking points.

9:07

And we're gonna have a, you know, we're gonna have a YouTube Creator's day

9:11

or something where we're gonna be doing, you know, sessions

9:15

and how to do it the YouTube way, not the podcast way.

9:18

And Oh, we're gonna give you square images instead of 16

9:21

by nine on your profiles and how to surface more pod,

9:25

you know, some of that kind of stuff. And it was just like, to me it was,

9:32

you know, I, I, I said, well, at least they didn't announce they were producing RSS feeds.

9:37

You know, that was the only good thing knowing Google's

9:40

history on, on RSS feeds, um, you know,

9:44

at least they didn't announce We're creating RSS feeds

9:46

for podcasts on YouTube <laugh>. Yeah. So, you know, I guess I'd give 'em credit for that

9:51

and not, you know, destroying the industry.

9:54

So. - Well, you're gonna be doing that <laugh>

9:58

- Well, yeah, we are.

10:00

And yeah. Right. But it's, you know, we're not, we're not in print.

10:04

We're not going into the video realm, you know, for those,

10:08

for those video YouTubers. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and, you know,

10:13

it was the same old story. It's a, it's a education thing.

10:16

Some of the YouTubers we talked to are assessed, what's that?

10:20

Apple Podcasts? What's that? - Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. - What is that?

10:25

I'm like, gimme your phone. I mean, I see this little icon right here.

10:28

Have you ever, have you ever looked at it? Yeah. Oh.

10:34

Oh, that's interesting. You know, come on.

10:39

- So really, is this kind of a really, for,

10:44

for, for Google, this is really kind of a convergence

10:47

of bad timing, uh, for them based on, um, really,

10:52

I think kind of some poor choices that they're making.

10:55

Uh, I think a lot of people I've seen articles online

10:58

talking about this is that the, you know,

11:01

I guess yesterday was the last day for Google Podcasts in the us.

11:06

Um, but from what I understand, they,

11:08

they haven't taken Google Podcasts down outside

11:11

of the, of the United States. Well, only in the United States.

11:14

- You know, what, what did we get this morning? We, you know, what are we hearing this morning?

11:19

What happened? Where'd it go? What's going on?

11:22

Why don't you have as a destination? The average podcaster doesn't have a clue that this is that

11:30

and been able, because the average podcaster's not tuned

11:33

into the new media show. Well, - Well, that, and also they haven't, uh,

11:39

the way Google rolled this thing out was,

11:41

was pretty transparent, really. I mean, not, not transparent to the podcaster, um,

11:47

because of how they did it, right. By picking up the RSS speeds off of websites. Right.

11:53

Is how they, they did it at the very beginning.

11:56

So, you know, they did that contrary, even if you go back,

12:01

um, to all the advice that I know, right?

12:03

I gave them, and Rob Walsh ga gave them, is don't do it

12:07

through a link that's on a webpage. Yeah. Somewhere.

12:10

- And even when you did tell 'em what your right RSS feed was about every three weeks,

12:15

they switched it to what they thought it was.

12:18

You know, here, here's the thing. They blew it.

12:21

Google blew it. They could have had this huge opportunity,

12:27

but what it really boils down to, and let's not, let's call a spade a spade.

12:31

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, they wanted, uh, everyone on YouTube.

12:35

That's the cash cow. That's where they monetize against people's content. This is

12:39

- Where they, what's - Advertising. This is where they make money.

12:42

This is where subscriptions where creators get screwed

12:44

and not make cash, and they run advertisement around it.

12:47

This is where the cash cow is just like Google Reader.

12:51

We can't have people on Google Reader, 'cause you're reading RSS feeds.

12:54

There's no way to monetize that. So we gotta kill Google Readers.

12:57

So we put 'em on platforms that we can monetize against, right?

13:01

So same thing with Google Podcasts. Oh, we can't make money against these folks on,

13:06

on Google Podcasts. Instead of being a good net citizen, they said for the third

13:12

or fourth or fifth, sixth time, change your strategy.

13:16

- Mm-Hmm. - <affirmative>. And it's very apparent. And, you know, if podcasters don't realize this, if podcast

13:22

hosts don't realize this, I'm looking at lib syn.

13:24

They're all in kissing YouTube's butt

13:28

and doing an API integration. Why? I think,

13:31

- I think they've already done, I - Know a lot of that, that stuff, already's,

13:34

but why didn't they learn their lesson with Spotify?

13:38

So, - Yeah.

13:41

But Todd, I think you have to look at, they were going after a different, I think maybe a little different

13:45

client base based on a different priority, which is

13:48

around the, the ad business. Um, and I think that's, I mean,

13:53

increasingly these larger creators, um,

13:56

are are doing YouTube and audio podcast.

13:58

- Well, libs and ads cannot run their ads into YouTube. So

14:05

- Well, YouTube will run, um, baked in host reads. Yeah.

14:09

- Okay. So the, the what, the 4%

14:11

of shows they get post reads. Okay. So, so stop. It's, it's a, this is a, yeah,

14:17

- But it's coming from the creator side here, Todd. It's not entirely coming.

14:20

- We have, we don't have - Plus, it's also coming from the buyer side, too.

14:23

- We don't have creators begging us

14:25

to do integrations with interview. - No, no, no, you don't.

14:29

But if you look at some of the other hosting platforms,

14:31

they are catering to a different, probably a different client.

14:34

- I don't think so. In the end. Yeah. They're, I, I don't think so.

14:37

Because who is Okay again,

14:40

are you again? So what, again,

14:43

- Major, major kind of network that's part of,

14:48

- So, so if this is the case, then, then Libson,

14:51

- They like a bigger media company, right? - We have lots of big media companies.

14:54

So Libsyn and these other folks should start saying, Hey,

14:57

we have great success with these shows on you YouTube,

15:01

- But are you selling advertising for those,

15:04

those, those podcasts? - No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

15:07

We're not doing that. Like host reads. - No, no. See, that puts them in a different

15:10

dynamic with the industry. Well, - So, but again, for the 4% of shows

15:15

that are gonna get Host Reds or 5% at the max, um,

15:20

but why, but that's - Why that's a reflection of your client

15:23

- Base. But, but why get in bed with the devil? - Well, okay. I

15:28

- They, they have not learned. They have not learned. Look,

15:31

- If you're focused on making money here, Todd, - And that's okay.

15:34

That's what they're doing. Okay. So guess what, then if I, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna use my podcast host to try

15:39

to make money on YouTube, so,

15:43

- Well, it's not that, Todd, it's the ad sales part,

15:45

because they're bundling the, the YouTube

15:49

views in their ad buys now,

15:51

- Well, again, the four or 5% for very little money.

15:55

Mm-Hmm. Because very few shows are showing success.

15:58

I don't, again, why, why, why work with someone.

16:01

That's their, their job is they want you to go away.

16:05

- They want you. Yeah. But Todd, why are we against, I'm not so much

16:09

- Against, I'm not against YouTube. I'm not, I'm not against YouTube.

16:12

I'm against what YouTube is claiming they're doing

16:15

for creators, which is in large part, nothing.

16:20

- Well, I, I'm not arguing that point.

16:22

I'm, I'm arguing more the point of I,

16:25

if you're selling advertising into shows,

16:27

and increasingly the ad buyers are wanting to buy, um,

16:30

bundled purchases of views on YouTube and plays

16:35

and podcasts, if they're bundling it, and your company is focused on selling those brands

16:42

that have those priorities in their expectations

16:46

of your representation, then the platforms

16:48

that are associated with that are going to prioritize that.

16:51

- But you're not, you're not getting views. - Hey, but, but that's not the argument here. That the

16:57

- Argument is, I, I understand, I understand what you're saying. When

16:59

- Lipson acquired advertised cast, yeah.

17:02

They, they started to shift their emphasis over to

17:05

bundling YouTube Okay. With the podcast side.

17:09

- Okay. So that's fine. But you're not getting views

17:13

with podcast audio content on YouTube.

17:16

You're getting listens. It's still listens. So,

17:21

- You know, okay. - Semantics. - It doesn't change the argument.

17:24

It just, um, I mean, each, each podcast

17:27

or each show has a different dynamic. Some of them are, are,

17:31

are successful on YouTube, other ones are not.

17:33

But, but, so if you are a ad representative,

17:37

uh, company Right. And you happen to be connected with a podcast host,

17:41

you're gonna be linked up with that. Right. Well, - That's, it's great.

17:46

Great. Yeah. Good, good luck in getting in bed with,

17:49

with them, because Sure. We, we've already learned this one time. Right.

17:55

So, you know, fool me once, shame on me twice.

17:59

Uh, whatever that saying is, it - Depends on what your business model is.

18:02

It's, it's not an argument about what's, um, what's right

18:06

and wrong more. It's, I, I agree with you a hundred percent

18:10

that YouTube is kind of, or Google in general has kind of dropped the ball here Yeah.

18:14

And not really done a good job in the industry.

18:18

And I don't think that they think of themselves as,

18:21

as having that kind of responsibility. So I think they do think, I mean,

18:26

I used to work at Microsoft. I, I know how these big companies think.

18:29

They don't think in the way that we think, um, as it relates

18:34

to the podcast industry, per se.

18:36

They don't care. What they care about is

18:38

what they want to do. And that's, they live in their own bubble.

18:41

And I think that's what you were talking about. - Oh, yeah. They're living in their own on stage. Yeah.

18:46

Regardless of what Libsyn's doing, they are living in their own bubble. Yes.

18:49

- Yeah. Right. And their bubble is video. Right.

18:53

Their bubble is really not audio. Audio is just the effort on their part

18:57

to capture more content Yeah.

19:00

That they, they can encourage people to create more video around as well.

19:05

So, so they're tapping into this momentum

19:09

that they're seeing in the market around,

19:12

you know, creating more video. - Yeah. Well, I think that,

19:16

I think people are waking up understanding. Well, some

19:19

- Will and some - Will, - Will.

19:22

- We'll - Keep going down the path of - The, a lot of the YouTube, a lot of the big folks I talk

19:27

to, they're, they're already over

19:29

it. 'cause they live in, yeah. Todd,

19:32

- Why do you care so much? - Why do I care? I, I, I guess I don't care.

19:35

But what I do care is, is of listeners, in the end,

19:41

this is back this out in the end,

19:44

listeners have lost here and podcasters have over,

19:51

I don't think we podcasters in the United States.

19:55

- I don't think anybody's lost anything. Absolutely. I think it's all about more, more choice.

19:59

- Okay. So the, you wake up this morning as a listener.

20:02

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Let me get my and Android device.

20:05

- Oh, okay. Okay. You're talking about Google Podcast now? I was talking about Yeah,

20:08

- YouTube. I was talking about YouTube, and I go, oh,

20:11

where'd my podcast go? - Right. - Oh, I, I gotta go find,

20:15

how do I listen to that show again? Um, oh, oh, there's nothing native on the phone.

20:22

- Yeah. If we want to go there, Todd, I think

20:24

that the spectrum of, of Google's failure here is much broader than just that.

20:29

I, it's, it's search too. I think both of us many years ago

20:34

talked on this program about this is such a big opportunity for Google. No, it

20:37

- Was huge - To tap into search as well

20:40

as having their own app on Android.

20:43

- Right. So, you know, I I, I guess I'm just, I'm probably,

20:47

what I'm angry about is how podcasters

20:52

woke up this morning and potentially have

20:54

4% less of their audience. - Well, that's, that's

20:57

what Google walked away from was, well,

21:00

- Again, again, I don't care. You know, they've walked away.

21:04

And now how many of that percentage

21:06

of those listeners will take the time to find an app

21:11

will take the time to find the shows that they, I'm sure there's gonna be a huge purge.

21:15

We'll see, we'll see what the results are. I bet you there is a, uh, another, I bet you 3% haircut

21:23

globally from this action because, you know,

21:26

unless the listener is really motivated, uh,

21:29

they might add one or two shows back. But that's probably what it's gonna end up being.

21:33

- Yeah. Isn't this an opportunity for some other apps to it?

21:36

Sure, - It sure is.

21:39

And, you know, capture - Users - And pocket casts and some others were running ads

21:42

and Yeah, absolutely. It's a, it's an opportunity.

21:45

So some apps are gonna gain, you know, I hope you go over

21:48

to podcast apps.com and pick up a new modern podcast app.

21:52

Right, right. But, um, in the end, who's lost here?

21:57

Ultimately, who has lost our podcasters?

22:00

And that's where I get pissed off. - And, and probably from Google's perspective, they,

22:08

they're having to spend less money on staff

22:11

and engineering resources to keep a - Platform running.

22:14

How much, how much resources I could have run Google

22:18

Podcast, probably with two or three people

22:22

and probably done a 10 times better job.

22:25

- Yeah. I think we saw this with Feed Burner too, right?

22:28

I think if you look back in the early times,

22:30

and a lot of people don't even really even know about Feed

22:33

Burner, but, uh, that got acquired by, by

22:35

- Google too. Don't tell anybody about Feed Burner. We know by going over there. And,

22:40

- But it was one of those things. I mean, there's two ways that this can go, Todd.

22:44

There can just be a platform that just lingers without any development on it.

22:49

Right. And just, there's no staff to support it.

22:52

Uh, which has happened at Google as well. Um, do we want them to just shut it down, get it over

22:58

with, people can move on? Or do we want to have it just kind

23:01

of linger there without any support? - Wow, - That's a bigger, that's a much bigger

23:06

- Question. And here's the crazy part, lingering with 4%.

23:10

- Well, and I think a good example of this is SoundCloud, right?

23:13

Yeah. Um, nobody talks about SoundCloud anymore

23:16

as a podcast host, but if you look at the, the number

23:19

of podcasts that are still currently hosted by SoundCloud,

23:23

it's, it's a huge number. - Right? Well, we just, we, we, there was just a sound,

23:27

someone that was on SoundCloud that migrated

23:30

to us about a week ago, and they said, oh my God, yeah, I didn't have all this,

23:35

I didn't have all this over on SoundCloud. <laugh>. - Well, there's a lot of stuff they don't have on

23:39

SoundCloud, but still people are there.

23:42

Right. Um, it's, it's really, you know,

23:46

and I think this gets back to a bigger issue in the industry too, is

23:51

this industry's been around long enough to have legacy,

23:55

uh, platforms, right. That if, if they don't get updated, they don't get improved,

23:59

they don't get worked on, they don't o over time they become like an anchor on

24:04

the industry to some degree. And that's, I I think a, a good example

24:07

of that is SoundCloud. - Well, I dunno, I just, I,

24:11

I really woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning on Google Podcast, <laugh> in,

24:15

in a, in a big, big way. And, you know, and again, a great opportunity for, you know,

24:20

lots of podcasting apps out there. But, you know, you've got some individuals

24:27

in the podcasting space that are

24:34

old curmudgeons - Yeah.

24:37

- And not willing to move the ball forward. And, um,

24:45

you know, I won't go into the drama

24:48

that happened at podcast movement, but there was plenty of drama.

24:52

- Well, there, well share the dirt. Todd,

24:55

- Come on. I cannot, cannot share the dirt. - That's what this show's about.

24:58

- No, no, no, no. Won't go into that <laugh>. But, you know, I think that, um,

25:08

we can't wait on Apple to do everything.

25:14

Apple's gonna do what Apple's gonna do. And then, okay.

25:17

So there's no drama around Apple. Let's just be clear.

25:19

Don't take that the wrong way. Did - You see anybody from Apple?

25:21

- Yeah. They had a huge, huge, Ted said,

25:23

I think they had like 14 people there or something. Okay. Had a huge number of people there.

25:27

So I got to talk to two or three of their team members plus an intern

25:31

and great discussions. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And, um, you know, I,

25:36

I think everyone knows, um, Apple's gonna do what Apple's gonna do.

25:40

They're not gonna tell you what they're gonna do. And if you're nice and you ask gently

25:46

and say, we would wish or hope,

25:49

or, you know, it'd sure be great, you know,

25:52

I call it contractor suite. When I used to do contract enforcement,

25:56

someone would come into the office with a sprint, with a drawing.

26:00

And so I thought, what do you think about that? And if I'd have said, that's perfect,

26:06

I would've just spent $80,000 of the US government's money

26:09

because I basically signed off on something.

26:12

So instead I would like, wow, I'm gonna have to review that.

26:15

Thank you for bringing to my attention. I'll get back to you. I would never say committal terms,

26:20

'cause anything that would be a committal term, they would take that the boss say, Hey,

26:24

Todd said it looked great. Let's go ahead. And the next thing I know,

26:28

I'm getting called by Nair saying, why did you spend 1.2 million of our money?

26:33

Right. Right. So there was it's language I had to speak.

26:39

So Ted's in the same situation. Oh, that's great.

26:41

Sounds interesting. Oh, hmm. That's good.

26:46

You know, so Ted has in the same position of being,

26:48

he cannot committal because he is not allowed to be.

26:51

So we as podcast host

26:53

and podcasters have to say, well, I'd love to have this.

26:57

He's Chuck Ted's in the team's listening,

26:59

and they're, they're chuckling right now. But it's one of those things where

27:07

we have to kind of express what we think would be cool

27:10

and, you know, cross our fingers. And, you know, maybe in five years we get it.

27:14

Um, but I did learn one thing,

27:18

and this is, um, if you decide

27:21

to use your own transcript - Yeah.

27:25

- Make sure it's pretty good. 'cause they are scoring, and I don't know exactly

27:30

how this works, but that was kind of the word that was used.

27:34

- Apple is scoring - The transcripts

27:36

that are being submitted,

27:40

- Podcast 2.0, - You switch and use your transcript.

27:44

They are scoring. I don't know exactly what happens if you go below a certain score,

27:47

but I don't think it's probably good. - Okay. They're, they're considering accuracy

27:54

before they actually use. - Have you seen how, - So let's say that they,

27:57

they won't use a transcript. I if you upload it to it, if it doesn't mean a standard. No

28:01

- One said anything like that. - Okay. - But there is some sort of scoring going on.

28:08

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So make sure if you're submitting a

28:11

transcript, that you're using a decent transcript.

28:15

Also, there was, um, a, um, awareness made

28:20

through some other podcasts of a bug

28:23

that they're looking into as well, Adam and Dave.

28:25

So they're looking into a bug with one of the

28:31

tags that isn't working so well. So they're looking into that.

28:34

But again, you know, um, and here's another thing too.

28:38

If you see something really, really weird, it's not working.

28:41

They are very open to getting an email <laugh>. Mm-Hmm.

28:44

<affirmative>. And if you see something really,

28:46

really weird, it's not working. And your podcast host should have a contact. Oh yeah.

28:51

I'm not gonna give their email out over the show,

28:54

because that would not be right. But, you know, port it to your podcast host, say,

28:58

Hey, I'm seeing this problem. Is it an issue? If it is, please forward it to

29:02

the appropriate member on the A team. So at least they're, they're engaged in Spotify,

29:10

Spotify, crickets. I, I don't know if they were there.

29:13

They might have been there. Megaphone was there. I'm

29:16

- Sure that they were there. I'm sure they were probably there. - So - I'd be surprised.

29:21

- But - Otherwise, so Todd, did you hear the, uh,

29:24

the rumors that are coming out about, um,

29:26

what's called Apple ai? Have you been following this at all?

29:31

- Well, if their transcript machine is as good

29:34

as what's coming with Apple ai, they're gonna blow everybody outta the water.

29:38

But I have not heard no rumor about it. - Well talk now that there's a, um, there's a big push

29:44

that's coming for, uh, the iPhone to have its own, uh,

29:49

what's called, uh, real, uh,

29:53

it's like R-E-A-L-M, uh, or,

29:56

or Realm, I think is what it's called. And it's gonna be the Apple AI

30:01

that's gonna be built into every - IPhone.

30:05

Well, I'm gonna be a little hesitant to follow it on that rumor, because Apple's been in discussions

30:09

with Open AI recently and some others on some stuff.

30:12

So why would, why would they need to talk

30:15

to them if they already have their own their own thing?

30:19

So, again, I, I don't know, but do

30:22

- You, do you really think that they're gonna do a deal

30:25

with Open AI when O OpenAI is almost solely

30:29

owned by Microsoft? - Oh. But maybe it's gonna be, uh, anthropic, who knows?

30:35

I don't know. Hmm. You know, in the end, there's only gonna be three

30:40

or four top dogs, so

30:45

on, on big models that are really getting heavy, heavy,

30:47

heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy cash investments.

30:49

So I won't go in, you know, I don't really wanna go.

30:52

We don't need to go into the full AI thing today, but

30:56

- No, but it just might apply to podcasting at some point

31:00

as they build, um, AI on top of Siri,

31:07

um, and have Siri have visibility to

31:11

your, your full phone. Um, and I,

31:17

it could be like your personal agent

31:19

that helps you manage all your apps. - Oh, user agents are gonna be big this year.

31:24

So I think we'll see a lot of that stuff. But I will

31:26

- Say now that's what this is kind of based on, is,

31:28

is the ability to create a different kind

31:31

of human interface with your iPhone. - I had to laugh though, because someone came up

31:35

and said, oh, everyone's doing AI said, no, not really.

31:38

I said, uh, from host podcast hosting company standpoint,

31:41

there's only three of us that are, that I know of that are doing ai.

31:45

And one did an in, well, Buzzsprout did an integration

31:48

with a third party Podbean.

31:50

I don't know what they did. They built, they may have built their own,

31:52

or I said, this looks like maybe they built their own,

31:56

and of course may built their own means they built API

31:59

calls, um, - Well, - You know, we, we built API calls, we didn't, we,

32:05

we didn't go out and build our own model. That would've been insane. Right.

32:09

But, but the main difference is, is I'm fully integrated

32:12

and, you know, it's basically,

32:14

you can go right from production to draft to publish,

32:17

and that's, you know, and maybe the other,

32:20

maybe buzz sprouts and, and pod beans is the same way.

32:24

But I was like, no, not really. I said, there's a lot of third party stuff out there.

32:28

I said, $47, $99, $29.

32:32

I said, you know, why do that when for 10 bucks?

32:34

You get it with us for, you know. Right.

32:38

- And it's all built into your, it's - Built in, yeah. Your

32:40

- Current workflow, which is - So, which is

32:42

- Kinda where this is gonna go. Yeah. Yeah.

32:45

- I mean, it's, and I, I get emails every, it's - Not gonna be 10 different apps that people use to do their

32:49

- Podcast. I, I got an email from a company, I had to send two emails.

32:54

I'm saying, no, we do, do you understand the first email I sent you?

32:57

I don't need you. We built our own. Well, we can help you.

32:59

How <laugh>, you can't help me <laugh>,

33:02

there's seven things on your list I already have.

33:05

And the three more I don't need, you know, and thank you for the idea, by the way, <laugh>.

33:09

Right. You know, so I, again,

33:13

it's just a tool at this point. And there's,

33:19

- You know, yeah. Did you see this, this research study that came out, um,

33:23

from the Edison folks,

33:26

the infinite dial talking about podcasting

33:28

and how, um, 47% of us, 12

33:33

plus age-wise population has, has listened

33:38

to a podcast in the last month. I missed - That presentation.

33:41

I haven't reviewed it. Right. So that's, it's up, uh, how many is that? Up two points.

33:45

- Uh, up 12 points. Wow. - 12

33:50

- Year, year over year. So that's a 12% increase year 30 year

33:54

- Over year to 47. - 34 to 47. Yeah. - That's huge.

34:00

- Yep. And then also, um,

34:03

there was a big jump in women getting involved in podcasting

34:08

- Going, oh, I would say that the attendance at this event,

34:11

there could have been more ladies there than, than men.

34:16

- Now this is on the - Listen side, the lister side. Oh, I, right.

34:19

- Yeah. So yeah, it went from 39% in 2023

34:23

to 45% of US women. 12 plus.

34:26

- Wow. That's huge. - That's a big, a big jump.

34:30

That's a what, a 15% jump, - Right?

34:33

Massive. - Um, no, it's not 15. Wait a minute.

34:37

39 to 45, isn't - It?

34:39

Okay. So six that Do your math, Rob, that's, - Well, no, no, this is in pod news. <laugh>.

34:44

- Okay. - <laugh>. I need to do the math

34:47

and not read what's on the page. - We're missing a, this sounds profitable event going on

34:51

right now as we speak, because I, you know, we're missing it. I

34:53

- Know. Yeah. Yeah. I saw Tom, Tom, uh,

34:56

and Tom totally knows that we do this live at that same time. Right.

35:00

- <laugh>. - So, and then it looks like, um, uh, 32%

35:07

of women, well, plus listen to a podcast in the last week.

35:11

I've been more interested in weekly podcast listeners for,

35:15

for a long time versus monthly. - Yeah. That's a better number. Um,

35:18

- Yeah, I think it's a better indication of engagement,

35:22

uh, with the medium. So that's, you know, it's up from 27%.

35:28

So it's, it's up a little bit.

35:30

I don't know where they're getting these numbers, these numbers that they're using.

35:33

- Mean, meanwhile, you're gonna have to give more money to Spotify soon.

35:36

They're gonna raise their rates. So it's gonna cost

35:40

- You what, for a subscription? - Yeah. They're gonna raise their prices.

35:44

- Well, that's a big factor right now. And I, you know, I didn't want

35:47

to turn this into an economic show, but there's a lot of, you know, there's things

35:52

that are going on with people, companies still laying off people.

35:56

Um, the advertising industry really is kind of struggling.

36:01

Um, I mean, a lot of people won't tell you that, but there's just not as many campaigns

36:05

and people aren't spending as much money as they used used to.

36:08

- Well, Lipson must have had an unlimited budget. They had like 20 people at the, uh, event. Yeah. But

36:14

- Also the other story with Lipson is there's been a lot of,

36:18

there's been a lot of people that have left, um, Lipson

36:22

in the last couple months too. Um, so yeah, there, there's two ways of looking at it.

36:29

- Yeah. Rob, Rob and I chit chatted a little bit. I'm, and he didn't talk anything about the employee

36:35

situation at all, but yeah, he did kind of indicate to me

36:38

what they were working on, so - Yep.

36:42

They're still working on trying to up upgrade the platform

36:45

to the Lipson five stuff. Yeah. So - That's still, that's, that's,

36:48

that's essentially it. That's like - A four or five year project <laugh>

36:53

to actually do that. Right. - No comment - In a lot of, a lot of podcasters, um,

37:01

you know, still want to use the old tools. - Well, we, we force people off the old tools.

37:07

'cause sometimes you just gotta bury the hatchet. - Well, unless you have feature parody.

37:12

- Well, that's the key. You gotta have feature parody. That's the

37:15

- Key. And - That's what they have. And if you don't, if you have a, if you have a feature

37:18

that someone loves that you've removed, then you will find the wr of the, of that podcaster <laugh>.

37:25

- Yeah. Yeah. - Where did my, where did that widget go?

37:29

- Yeah. I mean, it's not the end of the world, but it just, it just kind of speaks to, you know,

37:34

if you have a lot of legacy code, it takes a lot of momentum

37:38

to, you know, really kind

37:40

of work on two different code sets. Yeah. Um, that's, that's different than a, than

37:44

- A startup company. And maintain and maintain. That's, you know, that's you

37:47

- Maintaining at the same time. That's - Why we buried the hatchet.

37:49

And, you know, we didn't get very, we gave people about three weeks <laugh>, here's the old,

37:55

here's the new, the new, the old's going away in three weeks.

37:58

If we're missing something, let us know. - Yeah. And I also noticed, Todd, that in this, this,

38:07

this Edison research that came out too, it looks like smart speaker ownerships, uh,

38:12

or ownership has declined. Well, - Everyone's got one.

38:15

Don't need to update. I've got my same. - No, no, it's not buying new ones.

38:19

It's just that the people that have them have declined.

38:22

So it's really, yeah. Uh, it's, it, it dropped 2%.

38:28

- It's curious. Of course, I don't find myself using mine too much.

38:33

Matter of fact, my, my Apple speaker, whatever you call it,

38:36

I get annoyed when I'm in the house and I ask, uh, SIRI for, uh, assistance.

38:42

Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. The speaker takes over.

38:44

And for some reason it keeps going down to low volume.

38:47

It's, I'm about ready to just pull the plug on it and throw it in the trash.

38:50

Um, but I have some a l xas in the house as well.

38:57

And generally the only thing I ask is what's gonna be the

39:01

weather tomorrow in a certain city, <laugh> that's,

39:05

you know, I, what is that? Hey, hey, you know, who, uh, what's the weather in LA

39:09

for the next five days or, or London or whatever.

39:14

- Use the Amazon smart speaker. Yeah, yeah.

39:18

Really to play, play music. Yeah.

39:20

- So I don't even play music anymore. Well, sometimes I'll say play, play the jazz channel

39:24

or something, but that's it. - And occasionally the, it helps with the weather,

39:30

but <laugh>, you know, there, there's so many places

39:33

that you can get weather now on. Yeah. You can get on your watch or you can get it on your,

39:37

- We had, we had, uh, potential bad weather last night,

39:41

so I was looking on the weather channel, and it just about 40 miles

39:45

south of us, we missed the window. Ohio and all those areas got whacked and tornadoes

39:50

and all kinds of crazy stuff. - I don't think that you're in the path

39:55

of totality coming up on the eighth. - No, I am not. I, and I, I'm, I'm so busy.

40:02

I have to drive about two and a half maybe, see Yeah.

40:05

About two and a half hours to get in the path of totality.

40:09

I don't know. I don't, I, I guess I'll probably look at the weather on the seventh.

40:15

I didn't order glasses or anything, so I'll be using a pinhole method

40:18

or whatever, you know, that will Yeah.

40:21

- I've done that before too, - You know, so, but really, you know, do I want to go

40:24

and watch it get dark real quick and then, you know, there's gonna be so much

40:29

news coverage of this. - Well, there's gonna be crowds.

40:32

People are gonna be crowding the highways and the freeways getting there. Yeah.

40:35

- Well, good. You know, then may maybe I'll just stay at home.

40:38

And of course, they predict doomsday on, uh, the eighth too,

40:42

so keep your animal dry. You know, there's one of those things, you know, you,

40:46

because the doomsday doomsdayers, oh, this is

40:48

- The, this is so prepper's dream, right? - This is the time. It's, it's, you know, just an excuse

40:52

to go out and, uh, you know, buy another thousand rounds

40:55

and, uh, some more dry food, which, you know,

40:57

I can get into too. I understand that. Not saying

41:00

that preppers are making bad decisions. Um,

41:03

- I mean, unless it's being used as timing to do something else.

41:06

But usually a solar eclipse is pretty uneventful.

41:09

And especially what I'm hearing on this path of totality on,

41:13

on April 8th, is that there's gonna be a lot of cloud cover

41:16

for most of the country that day, - Is what they're forecast.

41:19

Well, are you in the, are you in the, you're, are you off the edge or are you in the middle of it?

41:23

- I'm a, I'm, I'm in the area that would get like 90%.

41:28

- Oh, so it's break your cell phone out and just record live, stream it, and then we can tune in.

41:32

<laugh>, that's, that's what people are gonna be doing.

41:35

Camera on my phone. There's gonna be a hundred live streams

41:37

on YouTube, and they're all gonna have special filters.

41:40

And I'm just gonna watch it on YouTube. - Well, I think it's like a, it's like a five hour drive

41:45

for me to get up to upstate new New York. Oh. So it's to actually get to the path of totality. There's

41:50

- One place in Michigan, they'll have 19 seconds of totality.

41:55

- 19 seconds. - Yeah. It's right on the edge of Michigan.

41:58

In Ohio, there's this little,

42:01

- Little sliver. Oh, see the outer edge? Yeah.

42:03

Of the, of the passage. Totality. Yeah.

42:05

- So they get 19 seconds of totality. Woo-hoo.

42:07

All you need is just a whisper of a cloud and you missed it.

42:11

- Yep. But yeah, I mean, I think that the, there's states

42:15

that are declaring it a state of emergency that day.

42:18

What? Yeah. Well, I think what,

42:21

what they're expecting is just a overwhelming surge

42:24

of traffic to areas that are not accustomed

42:27

to having thousands - Of people.

42:30

People I've had, I've had no, I've had no,

42:33

um, no companies.

42:40

Uh, nevermind. Doesn't matter. We've had, we've had no employees ask

42:43

for the day off <laugh>. - Yeah. I'm not gonna go up there

42:49

and fight the crowds to actually do it. Yeah. The last time this happened was back in 2017,

42:55

I was out in Washington State, and I was just a couple hours north of the path

43:00

of totality when it passed through Northern Oregon

43:03

back in 2017. I didn't go down there, but I did go

43:06

out and watch it in the sky. Yeah, I do. I do. Yeah.

43:10

I think I did see it, but it was,

43:13

and it was, it covered most of the sun, but it didn't cover it all.

43:17

But anyway, that's not nothing about podcasting <laugh>.

43:23

So, so, anyway, and I did, uh, let's see here. Um, so

43:28

- Let's, let's go back to something you're talking about

43:30

earlier on, uh, layoffs.

43:33

Have you heard about more layoffs or, - Well, I do think that there are people getting let go from

43:40

jobs, um, that we don't hear about.

43:43

And, and I do think that's happening

43:45

and that there's a lot of talk right now that that could, I'm not specifically talking just

43:49

about the podcast industry. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> I'm talking about

43:51

more broadly in the economy. And I think as we talk about this topic,

43:56

I think it is helpful to keep in mind, um,

44:00

what's going on in the economy as it relates to podcasting,

44:03

not as that everything that's going on

44:06

with podcasting is just doomsday for podcasting.

44:08

Right. Right. It podcasting is not immune from the

44:12

impacts of economic - Fluctuation o only for those that are trying

44:18

to get advertised. - Right. It is a though, I would say that it does impact

44:26

people's resources on, on

44:29

and willingness to create podcasts, - Though.

44:32

Oh, that's for sure. Well, you know, yeah. It's, it's the slowest growth that we've seen ever.

44:37

You know, and going on what now, 18 months

44:40

or whatever it is, what's the number? Uh, of course the economy's just fine.

44:44

You know, there's no recession. People aren't suffering. Uh,

44:47

- And I haven't noticed that the podcast hosting

44:50

platforms have gotten caught up in the inflation side of this.

44:53

Like we see with just about everybody else in the industry

44:56

increasing prices. - Well, - So do we think that

45:01

that could happen at some point, that the dollars

45:05

and cents don't, on a value basis don't make sense anymore

45:09

- When you have certain podcast hosting companies

45:11

that have staff in China that are pay, having

45:14

to pay less wages <laugh>

45:16

because of the economy being absolutely in the can?

45:21

- Uh, well, it's bad there too. - Oh, it's, it's horrendous there.

45:26

So when they can get people cheaper,

45:29

people can get offshore workers cheaper.

45:32

You know, we, we don't use any offshore. Matter of fact, we just, we just brought someone on

45:37

for a consult, uh, you know, another American team member.

45:42

So we're in the opposite situation.

45:44

We're under pressure to raise wages to keep up

45:47

with the inflation.

45:50

So I think that, um, I think a lot

45:54

of companies use offshore help more than, you know,

45:57

and I, again, I, I try to keep our dollars here as much

46:00

as possible, but you know, I'm, you know, I'm,

46:03

I'm not the one to be, I'm not saying I will never go offshore.

46:08

That would be stupid to say that. Yeah.

46:10

But, um, I, I think

46:13

because people have moved a lot of their help over offshore,

46:16

they have a little more wiggle room. And also a lot of the podcast hosts that are new

46:21

to the space have not had to pay the economy of scale pricing.

46:25

They get their bandwidth pricing down. They didn't have to suffer through, through 10, 12, 13 years

46:31

of every year battling for, you know, a penny

46:35

discount on bandwidth. You know, everyone now is, uh, you know,

46:40

probably paying sub penny per gig on bandwidth.

46:43

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and any, you know, didn't have to do anything to get there.

46:45

They just get it because competition's so tough

46:48

and people are desperate to, you know, make sales.

46:53

So from that standpoint, I, I don't know.

46:58

You know, I look at what my team's doing and, um, we're staying pretty, you know, I,

47:04

I got a full slate of stuff for people to do, and we're now adding more stuff.

47:08

You know, we're, we're, we're six months ahead of on our development schedule.

47:11

So I'm That's good. Now I'm adding more.

47:16

We're getting deeper into the pie, you know, so, Mm-Hmm.

47:19

<affirmative>. - Yeah. I do wonder, though, that at some point if inflation

47:25

continues to be with us, that the hosts will have

47:29

to raise their plan pricing at

47:32

- Some point. Well, I, you know, I paid a massive increase in healthcare this year.

47:37

My healthcare costs go up between seven and 13% every year, every year for healthcare.

47:44

Oh. Especially healthcare. And we haven't raised a dime

47:46

of price on any product in 10 years.

47:50

- Yeah. - So, yeah.

47:53

Am I under pressure to potentially raise rates? Yeah.

47:56

But I think it would be, it'd be a death sentence

48:01

to say, okay, we're gonna raise the price a

48:03

buck, let's just say a dollar. - Yeah. It's, it's tough when demand is a little soft

48:10

to be raising prices. Yeah. Right. It's, it's a tough one to, to swallow.

48:16

- And then you've got one or one man

48:18

or two man teams out there. Again, they're using a lot of offshore help.

48:23

So they're paying pennies on the dollar for development.

48:26

I mean, 20 cents on the dollar for development work.

48:29

So, you know, they can continue to expand

48:33

and keep their prices down. 'cause they maybe have one or two people, they have

48:36

to pay a, you know, a Western payroll.

48:43

So, you know, I look at my payroll cost

48:46

and it's just, it's the most expensive line item

48:49

of any company that's in the world. So for us, it's a lot of money.

48:54

Developers are not cheap. Team members are not cheap.

48:58

Healthcare is not cheap. 401k is not cheap. All that stuff,

49:03

- It's going up and the coverages are going down at the same time. Right.

49:06

- Right. That's right. And our healthcare coverage, you know?

49:09

Yeah. Oh my God. It's - Horrible.

49:11

It's not as good as it used to be. No. Right. - So, you know, to me to say I'm gonna raise prices 25%,

49:18

I think that would just doom us. I, I don't think I could. I just, I don't see it being done.

49:23

Someone's going, at some point, someone will,

49:26

'cause they'll have to or they won't survive. - Yeah. - You know, I keep looking at the,

49:32

where the red line is and where the black line is.

49:35

I guess that's our green line or whatever, you know, the, the, the profit line

49:39

and the, the loss line. If I can keep the, the money, more money coming in

49:43

and going out, you know,

49:46

but then again, as we start, as we come into payroll

49:50

and come into pay raise season, then that, that,

49:52

that gets narrowed a little bit. You know, so you have to continue to add business. And

49:59

- So what do we think, um, is gonna turn

50:01

around the demand problem, uh, on the,

50:05

the new show creation side of things?

50:07

I mean, it, it almost feels like this is,

50:10

this is, this is a new normal. - I don't, I don't know if it's gonna turn around.

50:14

- I know. Well, that's, that's what I meant by a,

50:17

a new normal on this, is that

50:20

- There's a lot of, a lot of competing,

50:26

a lot of competing mess. And I'm just thankful we have a, you know, a lot

50:30

of our businesses set that they'll continue

50:32

because they have to continue. - Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> - Companies that don't have

50:36

that type of a diversity in their, their,

50:40

their creator base are gonna be in trouble.

50:45

- And is there gonna be any new potential revenue streams

50:50

that can be created, um, that haven't existed

50:54

before, that can help with this? I, I oftentimes wonder about that

50:59

because I do worry that as we move into even the latter half

51:03

of 2024, that we're going to potentially see maybe a couple

51:08

of rate cuts by the Federal Reserve, um, that could spark,

51:12

you know, additional well money into the system, right.

51:16

Which, um, could be good in the short term,

51:21

but maybe ramp up inflation long term.

51:24

- You know, and this should not, this is just a basic 1 0 1 for any company.

51:28

You know, we look at the list of revenue generators.

51:32

In other words, will this add revenue? Right.

51:35

That goes into a pile. Will this set of features be more inclined to help us

51:42

and help us keep customers? - Right. - And not charge anymore for that.

51:47

Just add those features. Matter of fact, we're having those discussions today

51:49

and a couple things we got coming and where, how it's gonna tier.

51:54

And then, um, and obviously everything is looked at

51:59

from a revenue standpoint. What, and what are new revenue streams and, you know, be,

52:04

and this, you know, I'm not being, don't wanna be a doomsayer,

52:09

but people that are serving the third party market,

52:12

in other words, they're coming up with these siloed products

52:15

that support the podcasting company. I'm gonna bring that into this, into our platform.

52:20

- Right. - You know, I will start,

52:23

I just like the AI stuff. I'm gonna start bringing stuff in that is gonna compete

52:27

with people that have had no competition for a long time,

52:30

because we just haven't, none

52:33

of us have had time to build it. So we're gonna start building pieces that are going to,

52:39

you know, essentially Yeah. Try to review everything in house and

52:45

- Yeah. 'cause right now, um, I would say that many podcasters are,

52:51

are paying additional subscriptions

52:54

- Absolutely. - For external third party tools right now.

52:57

- Tools and services. Right. - That, that, I wonder though,

53:04

if you take those same exact tools and those same exact functionality

53:07

and you build it into the podcast platform, is

53:10

that gonna be perceived as enough of a value add

53:15

to justify a comparable increase in the sub subscription

53:18

fees to on that podcast platform?

53:21

Or are you essentially adding all this functionality

53:25

and having to hold prices because of legacy expectations?

53:29

- It depends, depends on the model. You know, we just, just just as an example,

53:37

without giving away this contractor I just hired, um,

53:41

that I've worked with before, um, they're building something

53:45

that will be a new revenue stream

53:48

and will not cost our current

53:52

posting customers another penny. - Okay. Okay.

53:57

So you're looking at it from the other perspective of,

53:59

in increasing the potential revenue to a podcaster

54:04

as an offset for I - Have to help podcasters grow - And Monet

54:09

- Right. Have to help them monetize whatever I have.

54:12

My job is to help the podcaster grow.

54:15

I have to bring them things that will help them grow

54:19

and make their jobs easier. - But is that gonna make it easier

54:23

for you somewhere down the line, especially

54:25

with inflation pressure, that you're gonna have

54:28

to raise your prices because you are bringing so much more

54:31

- Value? Mm. Not if I, that value I bring is a new revenue source

54:35

that doesn't impact the hosting customer.

54:38

- Yeah. If it doesn't increase your cost. - Right? Yeah. Right.

54:41

- There's, but inflation will increase your cost.

54:44

- And there's some stuff in some areas, some or some stuff that we're building is like something we're

54:48

building is for a power user. Right. But until someone uses it,

54:53

they're not gonna understand the value of it. So we have to make, like, maybe I'll make a version

54:58

where you only get to do something a limited number of times.

55:02

I'll just kinda leave it at that. Let's say we give them of those things you might be able

55:07

to do 20, let's say we give 'em two to do a month.

55:09

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And if you want more than two, then you gotta pay for the extra benefit,

55:13

but you're not gonna know the value of the additional 18 things you're gonna be able to do.

55:17

And two, you use the first two. I guess that's the best way to say it.

55:20

So, - Yeah.

55:22

- So you, you know, sometimes you add a feature and people are like, well, what's that feature for?

55:26

And until you use it, you don't understand the value of the feature.

55:29

- Right. - That's true. And, and everything that we build now, it's a question

55:35

that a podcaster's asked us, how come this, how come

55:38

that, why can't I see this? How come I can't do this?

55:41

How can you, it it's, it's filling. We're answering a question that's being asked

55:45

by a podcaster. - Yeah. - So, you know, if it doesn't have,

55:51

you know, a clear cut, this fixes this problem

55:54

for this group of podcasters, I'm not building it.

55:57

Yeah. And, you know, it's hard.

56:02

It's hard, you know, I've got a stack and it's, this is kind of a living list of what's next.

56:08

- Yeah. - You know, what's - Your prioritization that you have to evaluate? Yep.

56:14

- And - Each time you roll out a new feature, it frees up a spot on your prioritization list.

56:18

- But, but the same point, you gotta build stuff that, okay,

56:20

so let's say you got a 12 inch ruler. - Mm-Hmm. - <affirmative>. And I have inches three to five,

56:30

seven to eight, nine.

56:32

But I'm open on one. I basically, I have open spots on that ruler to fill.

56:38

So now, and, and what I'm really getting at is

56:42

this end-to-end experience. So where do I start filling those holes and when

56:48

and where do I put resources at to fill something

56:51

that we don't have that we need that once we're done,

56:53

we'll have a pipeline that is, you know, very,

56:58

very full featured and then with tiers off it,

57:01

that will help different ways. So that's kind of how I'm looking at it from a, you know,

57:05

I have this, this, this, this, this, this, this and this. And, you know, where are the holes missing,

57:09

um, that we need to fill? And some of that stuff is hard.

57:15

You know, some of those, you know, some of those, some

57:17

of those projects are, you know, it's gonna take every,

57:21

it's gonna take every one of my dev team members to work on

57:24

to get it right for maybe two or three months, just

57:28

because it's really, really hard to do. Yeah. - Right. - So, you know, I,

57:33

I think every company's gotta be facing that. Um,

57:36

- Yeah. It's this tug of war between, well, do I create things

57:41

that drive revenue to my customers themselves, right?

57:45

Or do I create things that add value to them

57:49

that justify a higher - Subscription fee One has one.

57:52

Well, not necessarily higher subscription or maybe an add-on, but the key really is, is well

57:58

- That's essentially a higher subscription fee if you have an add-on,

58:01

- Have an add on a current plan. - Right. That's basically an upgrade.

58:04

- And you have to make that add-on enough value

58:06

that they say, oh, this is basic. I'm getting this for free. Just pay. You

58:09

- Don't have to get it. Right. - Yeah. So really in the, it's like stats. Yeah.

58:13

In, in the long run, you really have to,

58:18

'cause we're all on a budget. So, you know what, what do I hear? What do I hear?

58:24

I hear grow, grow, grow, grow. How do you help me grow? Are you gonna help me grow? How Are you gonna save me time?

58:32

How are you gonna help me monetize? - It's not an easy question to answer for everyone. Yeah.

58:38

- And I think the advantage that we have, I podcast,

58:43

Mike podcast, Dave podcast, Sean podcasts,

58:47

other team members Podcast. Kathy Podcast. Barry podcast.

58:52

So we got team members that are in the trenches every

58:54

day digging a ditch. - Yeah. - And we're saying,

58:58

what are we having trouble with? - Right. There's a lot of areas.

59:04

- That's a lot. And there's only so much time as a one man

59:09

or woman show can do. Right. They only have so much time.

59:13

- Right. - You tell 'em to do these 13 things

59:16

to grow your shell, they're gonna, you know,

59:18

it's like sticking a fire hose in someone's mouth and turning, turn the water on.

59:21

You die. You can't do it. You drown. Yeah.

59:26

That's kind of a real literal, but, you know, so you gotta gotta get it so that they,

59:33

it's they can chew, they can eat. You know what, you know,

59:36

you can't eat a buffalo in one setting. You gotta make it so that can, you know,

59:41

work through it in a digest. So it's hard. It's hard

59:46

- Though. I do think that the podcasting 2.0 tags may,

59:51

may be part of the solution here. Um, - Oh.

59:54

Our, our widgets stop that. People are going crazy for it. - Right. - People can now send a boost, which

59:59

with splits from our Mm-Hmm.

1:00:01

<affirmative> web-based, Boostgram pe And people may see

1:00:04

that and they go, what is that? Right. Listeners do. What is this?

1:00:08

And then podcasters go, what is this? Right.

1:00:11

And it leads to them going to our site, reading about it,

1:00:14

getting educated and saying, ah. So it just, again, you don't, it's you, you,

1:00:21

you lay a, you build a building one brick at a time,

1:00:24

or one layer at a time, or one floor at a time. This is where we're at right now.

1:00:28

- And I know that the satoshi that are exchanged around

1:00:31

that have been growing in value. - Oh yeah. Mine have, mine have doubled.

1:00:35

- Yeah. So, - And I did announce, I did announce at the PSP meeting,

1:00:40

the approximate number blueberry podcasters have earned, uh,

1:00:44

from Satoshi's at this point. And it's, it's north of 30 K

1:00:48

- Uhhuh - In real fiat dollars.

1:00:52

Yeah. So, but again, there is some growth there.

1:00:56

You know, that's happened as well. The value. Yeah.

1:00:59

- That's based on Bitcoin. - Yeah. Yeah. If I looked at, if I go back, so it probably, maybe

1:01:03

if they don't take Bitcoin inflation into account,

1:01:06

well yeah. Maybe it's like 25 or something like that.

1:01:09

So, but still

1:01:15

Sam Ste over at, um, pod fans, it's made it real easy to,

1:01:20

uh, get involved with, uh, with SATs. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.

1:01:23

- Yeah. Yes. - So speaking, which

1:01:27

2112 SATs from Dave Jones as a provider,

1:01:30

every time you release a feature, you're committing the rest of your life to it.

1:01:34

That's exactly right. - <laugh> - Dave says again, none the 2112 sets

1:01:40

of every 2.0 feature app adopts is to the quality

1:01:43

of the transcript feature. I'm willing to give them all the time they need.

1:01:47

It's high quality. I could tell Ted was probably, I'm gonna tell you something.

1:01:52

If you look at that transcript feature on I on PO.

1:01:55

That that, no one's gonna beat that for a while. It doesn't start the transcript

1:02:00

until the ad is over on my pre-roll.

1:02:03

It gets, when I say new media show.com,

1:02:06

it puts new media show.com is is with the hyperlink.

1:02:10

It does. It, it's man, they

1:02:14

have an engine transcription engine that is,

1:02:19

uh, unbelievable. Uh, another thousand sets.

1:02:22

If every two pa Oh, oh wait, that was a, Hey.

1:02:26

That was a double, double boost there. Uh, Dave, we think about it, um,

1:02:31

1,701 sets from, uh, Mike. He says, Hey guys, apple transcripts are very good.

1:02:36

So we think for your boost, but it's true.

1:02:41

Everything you add, I've got the code.

1:02:43

It's, you know, it's just like re Okay, one simple thing.

1:02:46

Do you want us to increment your episode number every time

1:02:48

you publish an episode that was in the first version of our publisher?

1:02:54

That code is more than 12 or 13 years old. Yeah.

1:02:59

It still has to be maintained <laugh> and updated

1:03:04

and made so that it isn't, you know, you're not

1:03:08

as susceptible to hackers and everything that goes along with code.

1:03:12

- Mm-Hmm. - <affirmative>, you know, you gotta go back

1:03:15

and refresh, update the library, library expires,

1:03:17

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you know, some

1:03:21

of the stuff we're adding right now, oh my goodness.

1:03:23

It's, it's new territory for us. Not just simple PHP anymore. Yeah.

1:03:29

And PHP isn't that simple, but - Todd, I think we've reached kind of a pretty close

1:03:36

to an inflection point, um, with the 18 to 34 age group.

1:03:41

Um, they are seeing podcasts, or they're consuming

1:03:46

or seeing podcasts as almost as popular as television.

1:03:51

- Are you surprised? - No, I'm not tremendously surprised.

1:03:54

It's just an interesting thing to think about in combination

1:03:57

with what's happening with the video side too.

1:04:00

It says that 48% of 18 to 34 year olds listen

1:04:04

to a podcast each week nearly as large

1:04:08

as television at 50%.

1:04:10

So there's a still a 2% - Difference.

1:04:13

But what kind of television are they watching? I know

1:04:15

- They don't specify. - See, they're not watching C-B-S-A-B-C-N-B-C, Fox

1:04:20

and all these other, they're watching Netflix. What is

1:04:23

- Considered to be - YouTube tv, Hulu, you know.

1:04:29

Yeah. I can't tell, I can't tell you the last time I watched a, well, I can,

1:04:34

my television in my office here, I was forced

1:04:37

to buy triple play a telephone, a cable subscription,

1:04:41

and internet for my business thing. So obviously I don't use the wired telephone here.

1:04:45

That's the stupidest thing on Earth. Why I would need that.

1:04:48

I get about 14 or 15 cable channels on the basic plan that I had to buy

1:04:53

that I'm forced to buy. So when I eat my lunch, I usually turn it on

1:04:58

and I'll cruise through one of those 14 channels and

1:05:01

or watch anything on YouTube. 'cause it's a smart tv, you know, TCL nothing expensive.

1:05:07

Um, so yeah, I'm watching tv,

1:05:11

but I'm not watching A-B-C-I-I,

1:05:14

you couldn't tell me what's on TV anymore.

1:05:16

I don't even know. - Yeah. And what does that that term mean? Right.

1:05:22

Um, well, watching, does it include YouTube?

1:05:25

- I'm sure. Matter of fact, that's something YouTube was proud of, is the amount of TV

1:05:30

watching people are doing, watching YouTube, I believe that

1:05:33

- Like in a Roku app or something - Like that.

1:05:36

Well, I watched that. I can, that I watch, you know, YouTube has in my Sony TV in home that's got a YouTube app

1:05:40

and you just, you load your YouTube channel.

1:05:42

So they're gonna be putting work into making your YouTube

1:05:45

interactive experience as good as

1:05:48

what happens on your mobile device. - Yeah. I mean, it's being built into computer monitors too.

1:05:53

These apps. Right. The the YouTube app, the, the Netflix app,

1:05:58

- All those. Where's the podcast app? - Well, - Apple tv. That's it.

1:06:05

- Yeah, that's true. And there are still video podcasts in

1:06:09

there, so I kind

1:06:12

of wonder what's gonna happen to that. Um, I've thought oftentimes about asking Ted

1:06:18

or Ed Apple about his, his views on

1:06:23

RSS based video consumption on the Apple ecosystem, just

1:06:27

to see where - We're at.

1:06:30

You've, you've been able to consume this show on an Apple TV for years.

1:06:34

So go, go check the experience out, ladies

1:06:36

and gentlemen, if you have an Apple tv - Yeah.

1:06:40

Then I'm doing my podcast tips show on, you know, as part

1:06:43

of part of the Streamy Yard channels, um, as a video podcast as well. So

1:06:48

- We got a lot of people listening on YouTube. You're not commenting, you're all

1:06:51

being very quiet right now. Don't be afraid to say something. Same thing on Facebook.

1:06:58

You're here, I'm watching you. I see you guys on, uh, don't, don't be shy.

1:07:05

- Yeah. It'd be great to be able to pull 'em across the screen and, and show these comments.

1:07:10

So it's a big incentive for people to, to comment is to know

1:07:14

that they, they can get brought into the show. Well,

1:07:17

- All they gotta do is say something and read it right here.

1:07:20

- Yep. - I've just been too lazy

1:07:23

to put the template together to pull it into, into here.

1:07:26

I can do it, but it's too lazy.

1:07:30

Um hmm. I don't know.

1:07:34

I guess we'll see, I just, uh, I'm, you know, I, we had a demo today with my team.

1:07:41

I'm, I'm super excited by some of the stuff

1:07:44

and how quick it's coming together and designs

1:07:46

and, uh, one of the things we're working on is, you know,

1:07:50

very, very hard and, you know, going through, you know,

1:07:52

that's gonna take multiple weeks of development work.

1:07:55

And so hard is good for developers though.

1:08:01

They get bored on easy stuff. - But are you going to the NAB?

1:08:07

- No. - Okay.

1:08:10

- Yep. We pulled the plug on that shell, there was not enough.

1:08:13

ROI Rob's going, Lipson's going.

1:08:18

- Yeah. I'm gonna be there too. So, - 17 on one sat from Mike.

1:08:22

I'm watching on YouTube on my tv. Can't comment.

1:08:27

<laugh>. - <laugh>. That's actually true. That's a good point.

1:08:31

You know, 'cause I watch YouTube on,

1:08:34

on a big screen television too, through the Roku.

1:08:36

Yeah. Um, and it's, uh,

1:08:41

there's a lot of features that are missing

1:08:44

in the TV experience. - Yeah, there is. - So yes,

1:08:50

I saw in the, the podcast host ranking chart

1:08:54

that James Cridlin does the top podcast hosting companies

1:08:57

by new episodes share for

1:09:02

March looks like. And let say, is March the, yeah, that's the most recent one.

1:09:09

And it showed that the only one that went up

1:09:12

and new episodes publishing was spreaker.

1:09:18

- Everyone else is down on new episodes,

1:09:21

- Um, like pretty much flatlined.

1:09:26

Um, Spotify even had a drop.

1:09:30

- I'm not surprised there. They, they, they,

1:09:33

they're removing features from their platform,

1:09:37

and I'm not surprised.

1:09:40

- Yeah. They, they,

1:09:43

they were like 28.9%

1:09:46

of all new episodes published. - Hello? Test, test, test, test, test, test, test, test.

1:09:54

- Can you hear me? Oh, infinite dial.

1:09:58

- So yes, I can hear you, Rob. I'm just joking about Spotify episodes being test,

1:10:03

test, test, test. - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.

1:10:07

And it looks like Buzzsprout got 8.3%

1:10:12

and I guess, uh, uh, speaker had the biggest jump,

1:10:17

so I'm not sure what happened there. - Yeah, the Buzzsprout guys, uh,

1:10:23

of course they released their app

1:10:26

for their, for their users. So, you know, that's

1:10:30

what they'd been working on for a while. They're working on some other stuff too.

1:10:33

I heard some, some rumor control, something about a lightning rod or something to that effect.

1:10:41

- A lightning rod. - Yeah, that's, I guess that's about

1:10:43

as far as I can go, <laugh>.

1:10:47

And then I don't think it has anything to do with sets.

1:10:49

So if anybody, - Well, that's interesting.

1:10:53

I wonder what that's all about. That's - Me too, huh?

1:10:57

Because that's a, that was a rumor I was told in passing.

1:11:00

I was like, oh, a lightning rod. - Well, they do have a tendency

1:11:04

to use terms like magic mastering and

1:11:08

- Magic mastering by lightning rods. Magic mastering by onic, just like media mastering

1:11:13

that we have by Onic - <laugh>.

1:11:19

It could be some sort of new i, new AI feature of some sort. Yeah,

1:11:23

- Maybe. - Yeah. It says, uh, pocket cast is ready, ready

1:11:29

to support, uh, podcast 2.0.

1:11:32

- Yeah, podcasts was at the PSP meeting.

1:11:35

And, uh, I think they're doing some stuff.

1:11:38

They didn't go into any detail, or I don't know if I can actually say what they said,

1:11:42

but, uh, you know, I think PocketCasts will be the,

1:11:46

probably the podcasting 2.0 leader as far as features go.

1:11:50

Well, not leader, because there's lots of podcasting 2.0 apps that have everything already,

1:11:54

but there are more,

1:11:58

there are more mainstream mapping. And, you know, I brought, I, I, I brought this idea up

1:12:03

and um, we'll see, you know, I, here's the thing.

1:12:08

What, what incentivizes app

1:12:12

developers to implement something.

1:12:15

What, what is the incentive? The incentive is usually cash.

1:12:20

- Right? Making money. - Right. Making money. So, or,

1:12:23

- Or, or getting more users that then translates into more

1:12:26

- Money. Right? So my, my kind of thought process was, is if some

1:12:29

of the stuff that's kind of hard and really out there, let's use the term,

1:12:35

the term like cross app comments or something like that, um, that's a hard one to really get

1:12:41

the developers on board with. But what if I said, okay, blueberry's gonna put, um,

1:12:47

$5,000 in a, you know, in a pot.

1:12:50

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And anytime a listener,

1:12:55

um, makes a comment, any cross app comment

1:13:01

supported app that goes to other apps, what if I pay that,

1:13:06

that app, uh, a bounty.

1:13:10

- Yeah. - So, and it wouldn't be a lot of money,

1:13:15

but let's say whatever that transaction fee would be,

1:13:18

what it, let's say it's 25 cents or 20 cents

1:13:21

or whatever it may be. I don't know what the number is, to be honest with you.

1:13:25

Um, for them implementing a feature that listeners use

1:13:30

to be, basically there's, it,

1:13:34

it's a reverse way for them to, to make money is basically some sort of bounty program.

1:13:41

Yeah. And I, and again, I don't know if the right word is bounty or not,

1:13:46

but you know, what, if what if an app developer puts in, uh,

1:13:50

the people tag or the credits tag, they put that app in,

1:13:54

and every time a then every time a podcaster, it shows up.

1:13:57

You know, there's gotta be some methodology

1:14:00

that we can get Marco and other apps to say, okay, let's add this feature.

1:14:07

And yeah, it's, it's, it's early, but it's again, this, this cat and mouse thing,

1:14:12

because if we implement it, we'll say, oh, you're,

1:14:14

you're sent you more, the more developers see these features,

1:14:17

the more they're gonna be obligated, not obligated,

1:14:20

but want to implement it. Whereas on the other side, if they say, well, you know,

1:14:24

there's, there's a, there's a bounty out there.

1:14:27

Yeah. Um, and maybe it's a one-time payment.

1:14:31

Maybe it's, maybe I pay, maybe we pay for 20 hours

1:14:34

of development time, or maybe there's a pool

1:14:37

or something that is set up to, to get these app developers

1:14:40

to, to add these features.

1:14:43

And again, like Dave said here in a little few minutes ago,

1:14:46

every time you add a feature, you have to support it. - Right. - And some of these come with their own headaches.

1:14:52

Um, so again, it's,

1:14:57

it, it's, it's tough, but there's gotta be a way we

1:15:02

incentivize app developers. They seem none of this stuff were podcast apps.com.

1:15:07

They all got it ready anyway, so just go over there and get one.

1:15:10

But some of these other apps, they're above the, you know,

1:15:13

the 1% threshold pocket cast, overcast, those apps,

1:15:19

you know, you start getting above that threshold. And then strategically,

1:15:24

I think they have a good marketing advantage to continue to,

1:15:28

you know, track these people from Google Podcasts and so forth.

1:15:31

So, you know,

1:15:34

here we are on subscribe on Android, where we're looking at

1:15:37

that, making sure all that stuff's working because again, Android users have been left high and dry.

1:15:42

Where do they find an Android app?

1:15:45

Well, I'm just tell 'em, come over subscribe on android.com

1:15:48

and find one so you can have one. Click subscribe on. So mm-Hmm.

1:15:52

<affirmative> a lot of podcasting. Two point apps. Well, some have already adapted it, so,

1:15:59

- So Todd, did you see this, um, this YouTube podcast?

1:16:03

Uh, 1 0 1? - Yeah, that's what we're talking about.

1:16:06

They're having this Yeah. I encourage you to,

1:16:08

- It's coming up on the 26th. I - Encourage you to attend that, Rob.

1:16:12

- Really? - Yeah. Since, you know, since you have a, a banded, uh,

1:16:16

podcast space and a YouTuber now. - Ah, - <laugh>.

1:16:21

- I've got more podcasts than some, than, than most people out there. I know. <laugh>.

1:16:26

- I know. - So yeah, it's, it looks like it is put on by,

1:16:31

by a couple of women from the team there.

1:16:34

Uh, Stephanie Chan and Emma. Sweet.

1:16:38

- I don't know. Hey, I'll show you something here real quick.

1:16:41

Let me see if I can get it up on the screen. I gotta close a few windows first,

1:16:44

just make sure I don't show something I'm not supposed to.

1:16:47

Uh, yeah, let me go over here. It's just the button.

1:16:52

Ah, here you go. - What - Do you see it?

1:16:59

- I do. - That was, that was, uh, open AI created that.

1:17:04

- Oh. - So I just, just playing around, you know,

1:17:08

- It's, it's, uh, actually spelling it right?

1:17:12

- <laugh>. Yeah. And, and, and, and, and then here, I'll show you something else.

1:17:15

Here was their other attempt that wasn't so good.

1:17:18

Let me get the right screen up. - That's the problem that I have with all

1:17:22

- Here's, here's one that they utterly failed on.

1:17:25

- Yeah. Doesn't it seem kinda weird

1:17:30

to you, Todd, that these are large language models? Um,

1:17:35

- But understand they're, - They have a terrible time generating language.

1:17:39

- <laugh>, but it's, it's, but they're not creating in an image.

1:17:43

It's, it's a whole different process. They don't actually, they just, I know.

1:17:48

They just make, they just make shapes.

1:17:51

- Right. - That they think It is

1:17:53

- Ironic though. It's - Ironic.

1:17:56

- It's a little ironic because the whole thing with open AI is

1:17:59

that it's a text generator, right? Yeah. - Now, now this one, this one here, I can fix, I can take

1:18:04

that one and I can black that out

1:18:07

and then put in the, you know, the new media show with a,

1:18:11

- Um, try, um, <laugh>, try scolding, uh,

1:18:15

open AI about it. Say - I do - Spell this.

1:18:19

Right. Come on. I, - Oh, I, I, when I was having,

1:18:24

I think I told on the last episode when we were having,

1:18:26

when I was having trouble with the, the email template

1:18:31

that we were putting out, I was, I was saying bad words,

1:18:34

<laugh>, the AI cuss, I was cussing.

1:18:38

- I think I've did that in the past. And the a ai creates worse

1:18:42

- Version. Yeah. I was cussing it out progressively, significantly.

1:18:46

<laugh>. Oh.

1:18:49

And we're working, you know, something we're working on now.

1:18:51

We're having challenges with the prompt. It's, you know, like I said, the email prompt,

1:18:56

they took me like 150, 150 tries, you know, to get it to

1:19:00

where I was happy with it. - <laugh>. Yeah. So you have this kind of spectrum

1:19:05

of emotion with these AI agents where you're like,

1:19:08

at first you get really mad at them, but then it generates worse results.

1:19:11

Right. And then you start getting to the point

1:19:14

where you're like, pleading with them. Well,

1:19:16

- You know, it's what it is. It get it right. You know, it, it says, well,

1:19:18

let me annoy this person a little bit more.

1:19:21

- Right. Exactly. I'm gonna make it worse. - Yeah. Just to get back in.

1:19:24

That's, that's what it's just like, you know, I should wear red to the show

1:19:27

or to a hockey game or something. It matters. Nothing.

1:19:30

It's just a, it's just stupid at this point. So,

1:19:33

- Um, I'm still waiting for the meme to come out.

1:19:36

Uh, AI have feelings too.

1:19:38

- Yeah. Well, you know, I still was pretty impressed

1:19:40

with our little intro here, you know, that, that

1:19:46

- Doesn't have a high fidelity sound to it, but No, it doesn't.

1:19:48

It'd be nice if it had like deep bass and, and stuff, and

1:19:52

- I'm sure if I ran it through a audio editor I could beep it up.

1:19:56

But, you know, it's, I, I, I'm, I am, I'm not that Right.

1:20:00

If anyone wants to take this, uh, pot on fire

1:20:03

and beef it up, let me know. I'll send it over to you and you can,

1:20:06

you can enhance it and make it sound better. - Make it with deep stereophonic sound

1:20:12

with spatial audio.

1:20:15

- Yeah. I, I, the - Current buzzword, - I had some fun with it

1:20:18

and, you know, trying to do like the blueberry jingle

1:20:21

or something and you know, it, it works good for certain things.

1:20:25

It's not good yet for creating like, commercials

1:20:29

where they probably would make the most money and, you know,

1:20:32

'cause people like me are like, oh, I want a commercial. Yeah. You know, we used one of the clips in a, uh, in a reel

1:20:38

that we put on Facebook that got pretty good traction.

1:20:40

So, you know, it's not like it's, you know, just

1:20:45

when you're not paying, you're paying, you know,

1:20:47

whatever it is a month, 20 bucks a month, you know, who cares, right.

1:20:50

I just save myself a thousand dollars and having someone making me a jingle.

1:20:54

So, which we would've never paid with, paid

1:20:57

for to begin with anyway. - Sure. It's true. - So,

1:21:02

- So I heard that there was a resurgence in interest

1:21:06

around this new professional association.

1:21:09

The, it's, what's it called? The podcast, uh, professionals Association.

1:21:14

- Yeah. That's, uh, being headed up by Tracy,

1:21:17

a good friend of mine, - Tracy. Right.

1:21:19

- And, uh, so it's designed to be a true,

1:21:25

uh, professional organization.

1:21:28

Right. Um, so, uh,

1:21:32

time will tell on how that does

1:21:36

Yeah. Time will tell. - Yeah. I reached out to her about it too, but,

1:21:41

- So I just, she wanted me on be to be part

1:21:43

of their original board,

1:21:46

and I, I just, I just didn't, I I, I, I told her, I said,

1:21:49

I don't have time, I just don't have the time cycles.

1:21:52

Yeah. I can say in face value, I'll be part of it

1:21:55

and your board of governors or whatever it is, but I just, I just, I don't have enough hours as it is.

1:22:05

So, you know, it's just like I

1:22:08

- Did see, oh, go, go - Ahead Todd. It was just, you know, like I finished my taxes up yesterday

1:22:12

and sent over my CPA and of course my CPA sent me a naughty note

1:22:15

back, like she always does. And said, you know, it is the, it is the second <laugh>,

1:22:20

you know, because it's, it's hot and heavy season.

1:22:23

I didn't send it in in February when they weren't

1:22:25

slow, so Oh. - When they were slow. - Right. When they were slow.

1:22:32

So she'll probably get me a, a rough number

1:22:35

and say, okay, send the IRS this much money

1:22:37

and then, you know, I'll file an extension and you, you can sign it later,

1:22:40

but as long as you send them some money. Right. They don't care if you file the paperwork late

1:22:46

as long as you send them the money. - Yeah. But then it's, they create this di dynamic. Right.

1:22:52

Well, it's like, well, if you know exactly how much money you owe 'em, then why are you,

1:22:57

why are you postponing it <laugh>? Well - Be if you don't, here, here's the

1:23:00

thing that most people don't know. I had a friend that didn't file taxes for almost 10 years.

1:23:05

He didn't owe anything. It was all refunds he was getting,

1:23:08

but the mistake he made is they will only give you a refund

1:23:12

up to seven years prior. So if you don't, if you don't owe the IRS no money

1:23:16

and you don't file, they're not gonna come after you. They don't care. 'cause in the computer, they know

1:23:20

because much you owe them. So if you're owned a refund, you have

1:23:26

to file within those seven year window, or you, well, she'll lose it, lose the money.

1:23:31

And, uh, so,

1:23:33

but the opposite is if you owe them money,

1:23:37

if you don't send them the right amount by April 15th, um,

1:23:41

then you paid the penalty and the, the penalty's not small.

1:23:46

Um, right. - So yeah, I saw that, uh, at podcast movement

1:23:52

during James Lin's keynote

1:23:55

that he played a video from Adam Curry.

1:23:57

- That's right. He did. And, uh, Adam didn't have much time, a minute

1:24:02

or two, you know, you can't hardly say anything in two minutes,

1:24:07

but it was nice to see Adam come up on the screen.

1:24:10

Of course, the guy, the, the man, you know,

1:24:12

doesn't hardly age. So, you know, he's, he's I think the same age as me.

1:24:19

He's fast approaching 60 and uh, he definitely looks a heck

1:24:23

of a lot better than I do. Um, he's aged much better, you know, I don't know if it was

1:24:28

for all of his years of smoking weed, or of course he's gave up the, the flour.

1:24:32

He doesn't smoke any more flour. So who knows, maybe that that is, uh, maybe

1:24:39

that was the, you know, the Fountain of Youth or something.

1:24:43

But I've seen a lot of people that smoke weed for a long time and they look pretty rough,

1:24:46

but it didn't affect Adam very much. - Yeah. <laugh>. Yeah. - But he doesn't do that no more.

1:24:51

He does not participate with the flower.

1:24:54

- Yeah. He, he was quoted in this video saying RSS is like

1:24:59

a honey badger of digital distribution.

1:25:02

No matter what they try, they cannot kill

1:25:04

- It. <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. Believe me, they YouTube

1:25:09

and uh, Spotify sure would like to kill it.

1:25:12

Well, Spotify though, although all I did hear again in passing.

1:25:18

- Yeah. - Um, and this is what I found curious

1:25:22

that at least some engineers at Spotify,

1:25:27

um, would like to expand

1:25:32

and potentially add podcasting 2.0 features.

1:25:35

At least some engineers at Spotify would.

1:25:40

Now what engineers want and what,

1:25:43

- What the management wants might - Be different.

1:25:46

They're two different things. But that I thought was a, Hmm.

1:25:50

And I, that came from a very, very reliable source.

1:25:54

Uh, someone that's not, that I would,

1:25:57

has never told me something that wasn't true. You know, people told some whoppers from time to time.

1:26:03

Um, but yeah, that was curious in itself.

1:26:08

Yeah. So, but I, you know, here's the thing.

1:26:11

That'd be great. They're almost forced to, unless they, so why

1:26:18

- Do you think they're, they're forced - To, well, just look what Apple just did with trans,

1:26:22

with the transcripts, you know? Well, I

1:26:24

- Guess that's the key is that, you know, you get your foot in the door, kinda like, what's,

1:26:28

what's happened now with Apple? And it's like, it's easier to visualize it.

1:26:33

- We, we don't have our foot in the door. We have a pinky in <laugh>

1:26:38

and, um, we're at, we're we're at their mercy,

1:26:43

you know, and here's the thing too. Oh, here's actually, here's a good one I gotta

1:26:48

- Get. Well, when is Apple going to come up? Going to gonna announce something new too?

1:26:53

- Well, apple needs to the thing. See now this is a perfect opportunity for Apple

1:26:56

to come out with an Android app. So let me tell you something about attribution.

1:27:04

And I really, I was told this by someone that

1:27:09

I asked him to send me the article. Um, if you

1:27:17

have an iPhone and you're using Safari mm-Hmm.

1:27:22

- <affirmative>, - And you're behind the great

1:27:27

IP firewall that Apple has set up,

1:27:32

in other words, you're using the proxy service. And we don't know how many of people are,

1:27:38

but if you hear a podcast ad, let's say you listen

1:27:42

to podcasts, you hear a ad on a podcast

1:27:46

and you then load Safari and go to that website,

1:27:52

the attribution means nothing. - Yeah, that's true.

1:27:56

- There is no attribution. And because most people don't know this, all

1:28:03

of the iPhones, browsers,

1:28:07

Chrome is not really Chrome on the iPhone.

1:28:10

Looks like Chrome smells like Chrome, but the back end of it's not Chrome.

1:28:15

- Well, because it has to use the Apple, apple libraries, right? Ding

1:28:20

- To be able to ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. So does any browser

1:28:26

on an iPhone if you go to a site,

1:28:31

is their attribution? And the answer is no,

1:28:37

but no one wants to talk about that. And that was told to me by someone

1:28:41

that has been in the ad business a long time,

1:28:46

and he says it's the little dirty secret

1:28:50

of attribution in, uh,

1:28:55

in podcast, uh, ad sales. So someone out, there's ears just perked up.

1:29:03

Am I was that person right? Did they feed me the right information? Right.

1:29:07

And apparently this has been the case for many years,

1:29:11

not just since Apple started masking ips.

1:29:15

- Mm-Hmm. - <affirmative> because the original article about this was written up years ago.

1:29:21

- Yeah. Huh. Huh. Interesting. Hmm. I

1:29:25

- Wonder, someone wanna prove me wrong,

1:29:30

but makes me wanna do a little research actually.

1:29:34

- Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. - So you advertisers out there

1:29:37

that want attribution are

1:29:40

apparently missing any attribution coming from the number

1:29:44

one podcast consumption device. - It doesn't work. Is what you're saying

1:29:49

- Doesn't work? - How are they making up for that?

1:30:00

- I'm not, I'm not the expert making - Expert assumptions expert Tom, are

1:30:03

- They making Chris Tom's not listening. Tom Brian, uh, love

1:30:10

to hear your guys weigh in on that. - Yeah. I wonder how they're,

1:30:16

how they're still backing into those numbers - Somehow.

1:30:19

Am I wrong? Have I been fed bad advice?

1:30:25

I don't think so. Again, this comes from, well,

1:30:29

I'll tell you this individuals not running any attribution

1:30:33

on any of their shows and refuses to do so

1:30:37

because exactly that point. - Yeah. - So all this attribution data

1:30:44

and firing a pixel, well, maybe on a browser, on a desktop,

1:30:50

but on an iPhone, maybe not.

1:30:55

So attribution party can continue to be shut down too,

1:30:58

if Apple ever decides to put everyone behind the,

1:31:00

the great firewall of Apple too. So

1:31:04

- Right. For security reasons. Sure.

1:31:06

- Privacy reasons. - Well, that's, they're linked together.

1:31:11

- Yeah. Alright. We are, we are at the end of the show.

1:31:15

- We are. - All right. And, uh, I will share with you, uh,

1:31:20

before we go, Rob, uh, I actually play it for the audience,

1:31:23

uh, after we quit, I'm gonna play you guys the intro that it made.

1:31:27

so.ai made for my personal podcast at Geek News Central.

1:31:32

I'll play it at the end here. Listen to it again, ano.ai,

1:31:35

I encourage you to go play and have fun. I'm [email protected], at Geek News on Twitter,

1:31:41

at Geek News at Geek News chat on Mess the Dawn.

1:31:47

- Yeah, I'm on Twitter, uh, at Rob Greenley and LinkedIn

1:31:52

and Facebook and Instagram and all the, all the major platforms

1:31:56

and even on YouTube at Rob Greenley as well.

1:32:01

So if you wanna find me over there, that'd be

1:32:03

- Great. Thanks everybody for being here, and we thank you for being part of the show today.

1:32:06

I will pay this little short intro

1:32:09

from Geekness Central as we say goodbye. So, uh, we'll see you back here next week, everyone.

1:32:13

Take care. All right, see you next time. Yeah. Bye bye.

1:32:18

- Hey, hey, it's the tech talking man bringing you the snoop.

1:32:22

No one else can. Silicon Valley.

1:32:27

We've got down - To

1:32:34

central, - Educated by the tech talking man.