0:00

- Welcome to the new Media Show. We're back

0:03

- Doing the new media show again. - People are actually gonna listen to

0:06

- This junk. We do it live. We're

0:08

- Live right now. - We'll just do it live. - Let's live. Let's go live.

0:13

- We just can't get enough. The new media show. Let's go. Just do

0:16

- It live. - We're live. Let's go live. - Being Baboon

0:21

- The new media show, if we do it live, just

0:23

- Do it. Live - Going it live, going live.

0:26

- The new media show. I'm unlike Adam Curry and you're more like John Vora,

0:30

- I think. I'm Adam Curry and you're the old

0:33

- Mudge. We do it live doing the new media show again,

0:36

- The new media show - Technology. - We make it sound so special. And it absolutely is special.

0:43

Here we are at the New Media show. Rob, welcome back from

0:47

- N-A-B-N-A-B Las Vegas, another Trip to Las Vegas.

0:52

Wow. It's, uh, it's not something

0:54

that I look forward to every year, - <laugh>.

0:57

Yeah. It's, it's, uh, the down and back is a smart thing to do.

1:00

And, uh, yeah. And I'm sure we've got some things

1:04

to talk about of your attendance at NAB.

1:08

Yeah. And, um, but, uh, yeah, we, we, we've,

1:13

uh, you, you said when you were,

1:15

we were doing a little just pre-talk here.

1:17

He said, you haven't been watching what's going on in

1:19

podcasting and, you know, this week I was actually adding up meetings

1:26

and I just, you know, I have this ongoing

1:28

list I just write down. 'cause we do sprints.

1:31

I write down everything I do, and when we get into sprint meetings, I'm like, well,

1:36

there's like 15 Jira tasks that I wrote.

1:39

And, you know, I had eight hours worth of meetings in the last two days and customer meetings

1:44

and Yeah. You know, I hardly have time to just stick my neck up to see

1:48

what other people are doing, let alone Yeah.

1:52

You know, so I can understand.

1:55

And being in Vegas, you go into the time warp.

1:59

- Yeah, you do. And you're kind of fully engulfed in other,

2:03

other topics and other things that are going on around media

2:06

and the landscape. And I, I don't spend my whole time looking at my phone when

2:10

I'm on the show floor. I'm doing presentations at,

2:14

at the National Association Broadcasters event.

2:16

It's a, it's an all encompassing kind of thing.

2:18

It's very tiring too. I got back late last night and, um,

2:22

and yeah, it's, it's hard to get recalibrated new time,

2:26

zone new everything. <laugh>. Well, - It's not so much the time zone,

2:29

but Vegas just sucks the light outie.

2:31

- Oh, it does, it - Does. You know, if, if you don't drink, uh, you know,

2:37

and I'm, I have a new thing here. I'm trying to drink a gallon of water a

2:40

day, and I know Yeah. - I'm doing the same. I got a little

2:43

dehydrated at the event. It's really easy to do that.

2:46

- And, and I, you know, and I've just found that if I don't have a gallon jug to see

2:51

how much I've drank, I won't drink it. Now, I can't do that in Vegas. Holler on a, a gallon jug.

2:57

Right. But, uh, and you know, you can, you only carry

3:00

so many water bottles and of course then you go to buy water

3:02

and it's $8 for Yeah.

3:04

You know, stuff you can get out of, of a fountain for free.

3:07

So it's, yeah. It's, um, it's an event.

3:11

So tell me what, uh, what did you see,

3:13

first of all, what did you see? - Well, I saw a lot of, you know, new technology.

3:19

I, I was attracted to, you know, the central halls

3:22

where a lot of the activity was. Yeah. And though I, I did spend a lot

3:26

of time in the West Hall, which is the, the new hall

3:28

and the North hall is completely under demo

3:31

and reconstruction, so. Wow. So that was,

3:34

that was the big change at this event. I spent a lot

3:37

- The north or the south hall. - The, the North Hall is completely under construction.

3:42

That whole section is completely under construction.

3:45

- So they had everyone shoved into Central and West.

3:48

- Yep. That's - Exactly where everybody was. That's interesting. Well,

3:52

- Central West and South. Oh,

3:55

- So they were using South. - Yeah. So I spent a lot of time up in the South Hall up in

3:59

the upper level of the South Hall. 'cause that's where the new curator's lab, uh,

4:04

conference was, was up on the top, top floor

4:08

of the NAB in the South Hall way in the back.

4:11

Uh, so there's lots of room back there so they could,

4:13

could have large panel sessions

4:16

and things like that going on. And there, there wasn't gonna be a lot of noise around

4:19

because there's not a lot of traffic - Back there.

4:21

Yeah. Because that's, I know, I, so for CESI was in the back left hand corner

4:25

of South Hall top before, so Yeah. I know, know how far it is from anything.

4:28

- Yeah, exactly. It's a great place to, if you wanna put on panels

4:33

and sessions and things like that. And that's exactly what, what I did.

4:35

I, I moderated a panel session, um, on the topic of audio

4:40

and video editing, uh, in the kind of cutting edge trends

4:44

that are going on around that, which was an, you know, it was a little bit of a departure for me.

4:47

Right. I mean, I usually talk about podcasting trends

4:51

and things like that, but I'm, I'm trying to branch out

4:53

and get into other types of topics in, in media

4:56

and production and things like that. And I had an opportunity to do this.

4:59

So the guys on stage with, with me, um, are

5:03

represented kind of, kind of divergent kind of aspects

5:07

of post-production and editing and things like that.

5:10

You know, a guy from, you know, that, that was working on music, uh, licensing.

5:14

And a guy that is a, well-known director,

5:17

he actually produced the Computer Chronicles

5:20

series back in the early days. - Oh wow. - Yep.

5:23

So he was up on stage wait with me, and, and we were talking about the trends around,

5:27

and then then a guy that works for, for magics, uh,

5:33

the magic kind of company with the Vegas software and things like that.

5:37

So, so that was a, a good conversation about AI integration into editing

5:43

post-production and how the trends around, um,

5:47

you know, just productions in general utilizing AI

5:51

and also, uh, what's happening

5:53

around like a creator, like a Mr. Beast, uh, and how he's come out publicly

5:59

and stated that, uh, he hates the productions

6:02

that he's doing right now and that he's gonna change.

6:05

Interesting. And so you see, yes, you see this, um,

6:08

this movement towards e everybody's seeing his success Mi Mr.

6:11

Beast with his hundreds of millions of views. And now he's shifting over to doing deals with, you know,

6:18

these big cable companies and also the streaming platforms

6:22

to create his content over there. And, and I think that the feeling that, that he has is,

6:27

he's been looking critically at his productions

6:31

and he feels like maybe he's gone too far down the rabbit

6:34

hole of overproduction, um,

6:36

and this, this fast cutting explosions and,

6:40

and fast moving camera scenes and,

6:43

and him, him yelling at the camera all the time

6:46

because there's so much noise or something going on around him, or too much going on.

6:50

So it's almost like he's having a existential kind

6:53

of rebirth of sorts - Or maybe growing up.

6:57

- Yeah. Well that's what my comment was, was

6:59

that maybe he's just getting a little older and he's getting a little more conservative with what he's,

7:03

um, interested in doing. And so, so we may see a big shift,

7:07

but what we've seen in the industry is his influence has

7:10

really impacted, um, a lot of creators.

7:13

Right. That, uh, want to duplicate what he's doing. Right.

7:16

I think a lot of the creators have a hard time duplicating Mr.

7:18

Beast. 'cause he's such a big budget with his productions,

7:22

and he'll give away a half million dollars that kind

7:24

of prize money at the end of his, his, um, show,

7:27

you know, his shows. 'cause he's generating that kind of money

7:30

with his productions. Yeah, yeah. So you can kind of see how we're in this kind

7:35

of, this shift phase of media production and shifting back.

7:39

And I, I think we got a clue that, uh, Mr.

7:42

Beast is starting to think more about genuine productions

7:45

and more genuine experiences, slowing things down a little bit

7:49

and not yelling at the audience and not being too bombastic, um, as kind of the direction

7:55

as he sees going forward. And that has a big influence on

7:58

what other creators do in the space.

8:01

And I, I I raised this point that it sounds like he wants

8:04

to become more like a podcaster - <laugh>.

8:07

Oh. Oh. And what was the reaction to that? - Well, I, I think this concept, I mean, all,

8:12

all the folks on the stage are definitely clued

8:14

into podcasting. And, and this, you know, this convergence, um,

8:19

that's happening between video and audio

8:22

and how important audio was, um, up, up on the stage

8:27

and our is well, well, was and continues to be. Um,

8:31

- Don't use the word was. It makes, it sounds like it's in the past, it's still

8:36

- Valuable. Well, I just said it is, so, - Okay.

8:38

But don't use the word was 'cause was in place. The past was important. Well, it, it is. Well, it does.

8:45

- Yeah. Well, I think what they were trying to point out was, is that it's,

8:49

it's increasing in its importance, the audio quality.

8:51

I mean, I think television and video productions have historically deemphasized audio.

8:58

And so what they're seeing is kind kind of like a re

9:03

reemergence of audio quality as something that's, uh,

9:06

a higher priority for a lot of video - Creators.

9:09

It's curious, because I've always said they'll forgive you

9:13

for bad video, but they won't forgive you for bad audio.

9:17

- I don't know if that's entirely true either.

9:20

I think good video is fully appreciated if you're a video creator.

9:23

Yeah. Um, but, but the audio has historically been kind of the,

9:28

the stepchild of media creation on television anyway.

9:33

Um, so you've seen this kind of, this resurgence of quality

9:37

in, in, in the actual experience of content production.

9:43

And, but yet, you know, you're seeing like a Mr.

9:45

Beast kind of shift away from this bombastic high speed,

9:49

lots of cameras shifts and things like that. So maybe he's gonna slow it down.

9:53

And that could be indicative of a different type

9:56

of content that you're seeing. Even, even you're seeing this on, on places like YouTube

10:01

and other platforms as well as the video creators are starting to think more about,

10:06

you know, more intimate experiences and more genuine

10:10

and authentic, um, type of stuff.

10:13

Less high produced - Content <laugh>.

10:16

Yeah. Right. So, - So that's a big Uber trend in all this. Right?

10:21

- So what about, you know, what about the gear?

10:24

Because usually NAB Oh yeah. Is not a creator event.

10:27

There's not that many creators that they've been,

10:29

and that's reason one of the reasons we stopped going.

10:33

- Yeah. And I think that, um, NEB is having a little bit

10:36

of an identity crisis right now. I think that they are seeing, um, what's happening, uh,

10:42

in the broadcast side of things. And I think that there's some pullback

10:45

and the support of the NEB because of kind of the, the mainstream media

10:50

and stuff kind of struggling. And, and that's why I, I went to this year's event

10:55

because I had an opportunity to present at a new section

11:00

or a new content area, uh,

11:03

at the a b it was called the Creator's Lab. And, and it basically is trying to focus on, uh,

11:10

trying to talk about creators in the digital space, um,

11:13

and trying to highlight those and bring in experts that can, can talk to these,

11:19

these more digital topics. Right. And the analog topics.

11:23

- Then they're gonna have to dominating, they're gonna have

11:26

to change your complete strategy because there used to be a lot of talent,

11:31

and I'm just gonna use the word talent, that was at the event, and the talent disappeared.

11:37

The talent wasn't there anymore. So what, what was the attendance then of your event?

11:43

Was there a lot of talent or was it a lot of looky-loos,

11:47

or what, what would you, what would you typify the audience

11:51

that was at this creators area?

11:56

- Well, I think it's early, early days for this shift for them.

12:00

So it was, it was, I mean, on the scale of an NAB

12:04

where there's like, yeah, yeah. I believe that they had like 70,000 attendees at this, uh,

12:10

which is still not back to what it was. Right.

12:13

- In 300 plus. - Yeah. Back in like 2019 timeframe when

12:17

it was a much bigger event. Um, but it's, I think it's gonna take some time for them

12:23

to shift the perception of the event

12:26

to be more of a creative event. I mean, it's still got the,

12:29

the name broadcast in its name, name.

12:32

So, but, but I guess as they shift more to just using the acronym,

12:36

maybe they can extend that. Well, it's - Just like, just like CS C Yeah.

12:40

CS did how they changed. - Right. So I think that may be what's,

12:44

what's gonna happen here over the next couple years. Yeah. Well,

12:47

- We'll see. But, you know, they didn't do a, they drove us away.

12:53

- Well, they, they backed away from doing a

12:55

podcast pavilion. Like - They, you know, and they, and we got put in the South 40

13:00

and, and basically I said, you know, you,

13:03

you put me in the back of South 40, I'm not coming back.

13:05

We did get moved to Central, uh,

13:07

we were in a great position. We did all our marketing last year,

13:11

and the ROI out of the event was

13:14

absolutely horrible.

13:17

So, you know, it's, it's a situation now.

13:21

And I, and I think podcast movement, podcasts, other events,

13:26

they're gonna have to really start paying attention.

13:29

Okay. If you're gonna have a, an event where there's gonna be 3000 creators there, then you need

13:35

to make sure you're doing, and Chris did podcast did this very well.

13:37

He got the creators into the exhibitor area. Mm-Hmm.

13:42

<affirmative> and, you know, his liquor <laugh>, you know,

13:45

and, and got 'em in there and got 'em circulated, got 'em seeing us

13:49

and got us talking to people. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And,

13:52

but if events don't take care of the exhibitors,

13:56

those events will not exist. If, if the Yeah, I think,

14:00

- Yeah, - Because well, they, they can exist,

14:03

but they'll exist without exhibitors because I have to have, you know, I have to generate ROI

14:11

and uh, we're going back to Pod Fest. We're excited to go back to Pod Fest. Yeah.

14:15

Matter of fact, I'm headed to Manila, uh,

14:20

two weeks from two weeks from tomorrow.

14:25

And, uh, I'm gonna be going out and participating in Podcast Asia.

14:30

I'll be speaking, uh, on the one day event in podcast Asia.

14:34

So, uh, a friend of mine, um, who

14:39

basically has a pretty big business in the Philippines,

14:42

not podcast related per se, um,

14:45

but she does have a podcast approached me and said, Hey, would you know, would you come out?

14:49

And I was like, oh, that's a long ways to go.

14:52

And, um, so essentially I, I made the decision

14:56

to go ahead and pull the trigger. So it's a long ways to go to speak and then come back.

15:01

But, you know, I, you know, the numbers look pretty good

15:04

for a short term event, and it's just a one day event.

15:08

So, you know, I'm gonna fly out, have a couple

15:11

of days in advance to, I guess for a better word,

15:14

to recover a little bit from jet lag, then hit the event, then fly right back.

15:17

Because as soon as I get back, I'm only back a week and we go to London.

15:21

So, um, so I think

15:25

what really ultimately has to happen in these big events like this, if they,

15:30

if they're worried about loo, 'cause broadcasting is,

15:35

and those people that sell equipment to any to broadcasters,

15:40

television's probably okay for a while because it's not going down

15:43

or, you know, people are still gonna need cameras

15:46

to shoot videos and TV and movies and all that stuff.

15:49

But what did you see from the vendors or the vendors Aw.

15:54

Have they been awoken, you know, road obviously has,

15:59

surer has been serving creators for years? Uh, yeah.

16:03

- A road was not at the event, so, oh, they did a,

16:08

like a coboo with, uh, h and l out of New York. Oh,

16:12

- That's, or you mean H and l you mean?

16:15

Uh, - B-B-N-H-B?

16:18

No, no. Was it B and H? Yeah, out of New York. Yeah.

16:21

- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - So B

16:23

- And H Yeah. So they basically, did they have road people there

16:27

or was it just B and h people showing off road gear?

16:31

- Yeah, I didn't actually see the booth, but Oh, okay.

16:33

Uh, but I do know that the road folks, at least they,

16:37

they used to have staff out of, out of the northeast. Ah,

16:40

- I can't remember. - Yeah. I've met them, but yeah, I've met them before. So

16:44

- As you, I don't know how much you got to transverse different booths.

16:47

'cause I always go seeking different steps, see what's going on in the NDI front. And, uh,

16:52

- I didn't go to NDI, I went to the DGI booth and I went to I

16:55

- Oh, I bet you DGI was busy. - Yeah. In the IMAX booth. I went there too.

17:00

That was really interesting. They're coming out with a consumer camera as well as, uh,

17:05

as a whole platform around a digital projector, uh, on,

17:10

in IMAX as well as laptops and, and,

17:15

and like, uh, iPad type of

17:17

- That's interesting. - Tablets. Um, so you'd be able to have the technology

17:23

to support IMAX ENC coding, uh,

17:26

built into your, your computer.

17:30

- Ching. Very expensive. I'm sure.

17:33

- So, yeah. But, so it's a consumer product line

17:37

that they're coming out, which I thought was very interesting. So when you

17:39

- Went into DGI, I, I'm a big fan of their Osmo

17:43

handheld right now, and it's, I think it's kicking, uh,

17:46

GoPros, but, um, you know, know what was the vibe at DGI?

17:52

- Yeah. It was a very high, highly attended booth. Yeah.

17:55

Uh, no question that, I mean, from the drones to the cameras

17:59

and all sorts of stuff that they have there.

18:01

Yeah. It's, it's quite a, quite a very popular Yeah.

18:04

Attraction at the event and saw, I mean, I saw robot dogs

18:09

and, and flying, uh, kinda like,

18:13

uh, transmitter tower. - How many, how many times did you see the word AI

18:18

enabled in every booth? - Oh, yeah. Everybody, you know, all of the, all of,

18:23

like the editing software and things like that, that are being,

18:26

being shown at the event, um, have AI technology built into them to segment video,

18:33

to, to stitch 'em together, to do transitions.

18:37

I mean, it's just amazing how technology,

18:40

how the AI technology's being rolled into just about everything.

18:44

Um, and that's, and it's all, you know, that's the common theme here is it's

18:49

all supportive technology. It's not primary. Um, so it's not like people are,

18:55

are creating everything with ai.

18:58

It's, that's not the emphasis that's going on right now.

19:00

The this is all about, it's the same thing that you're doing

19:03

with your platform, Todd. It's all augmenting. Yeah. Yeah.

19:05

Saving time, optimizing, trying to make things easier

19:10

for the production. - It's, it's interesting that you talk about Adobe

19:13

because, um, I had Adobe announced some stuff yesterday, I think.

19:20

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and basically talking about gen AI

19:23

coming into Adobe Premier. And there's a YouTube video out there

19:26

that's gotten quite a bit of, uh, quite a bit

19:29

of buzz and it's been talked about. Mm-Hmm. Um, and actually I had a call with, um,

19:35

an Adobe rep on their generative AI within Premier.

19:38

So I kind of got a little bit of a sneak peek, um,

19:42

earlier this week. That's one advantage of not, of not going to the show.

19:46

I can talk to people that want to promote what's going on in the show.

19:50

'cause I'm not at the show <laugh>. Right. And, um, so, but the thing that really caught my eye,

19:57

and it, I don't think it's NB related,

20:00

but are you familiar with the app called Captions?

20:05

- Hmm. Not, not specifically, no. - Well, it's no longer an app. It's an AI creative studio.

20:11

And I, so - It's a cloud-based, uh, software SaaS model. I don't

20:17

- Know how it works. I haven't used it, probably Cloud-based.

20:22

But, um, a podcast that I listen to, um,

20:28

have stopped using the script and they're going to use this now.

20:32

- Oh. - And what, what caught my attention was

20:35

that this company, or this podcast was hardcore to script users.

20:39

They were like, and so when the captions came out,

20:42

they had their staff do a compare and contrast and Mm-Hmm.

20:46

<affirmative>. And basically, even though they're promoting it as a video studio,

20:51

I guess the audio stuff in it is, is off the chart.

20:55

So, you know, so I'm, you know, going

20:59

and looking at their website and saying, okay, they got an API, you know, what's,

21:02

you know, what's going on here? - Mm-Hmm. - <affirmative>. And, um, you know,

21:07

there could be, uh, there, there definitely can be,

21:12

you know, there's, there's some stuff here that's gonna happen.

21:14

So what, what I see happening, nobody had been arrest on their laurels at all.

21:21

- Mm-Hmm. No, - Because this, I don't

21:23

- Think they are. I mean, I think a lot of these big companies are

21:26

pushing pretty hard on this - Right now, you know, and, and, you know,

21:29

and it, it's what's gonna end up happening here?

21:31

Is it, it's do or die. And, um, and,

21:35

and just looking at some of this stuff, I'm like, you know,

21:38

how can it make my life easier for someone

21:42

that does both audio and video and I don't edit?

21:46

That's my issue is I'm not an editor. So I don't ever, I've never had to edit even the video.

21:51

I don't edit. Um, but I know a lot of people worry about that.

21:54

I had a phone call yesterday, matter of fact, this is,

21:57

I'll tell you something here in a second, that's gonna blow you away.

22:01

Um, but it just tells me that,

22:06

and again, I have no idea based beyond

22:09

what this people in this podcast said that this is tool is,

22:12

you know, they're, they've stopped using Descrip and they've moved to this, that, that, when someone says

22:16

that Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> that makes me go, you know, and I, and

22:20

'cause I, you know, description's pretty powerful in my opinion.

22:24

So - It's far from perfect though, Todd.

22:28

I mean, I use it all the time and it's, it's a little slow sometimes and it's,

22:34

and it, it likes to kind of crash

22:37

and then restart to some degree sometimes.

22:39

Yeah. It's, so it's, it's still a little buggy. Yeah.

22:43

Um, and the UI is certainly not intuitive,

22:46

so I think they've got a long way to go to help

22:48

that tool be a little easier to navigate.

22:51

Um, but I did wanted to mention too,

22:54

that I did put on a Streamy yard workshop at the NEB Uhhuh.

22:57

Um, so that was a very dedicated, uh, topic workshop

23:01

with, um, video. - Did you guys have that right at the Stream Mart booth? Or

23:07

- There was no stream Mar booth? It was at the, at the crater lab. Oh, okay.

23:11

So it was one of the sessions at the crater lab.

23:13

So I got up and actually demoed the, the whole platform, um,

23:18

to an audience at the event. And, and so that was, you know,

23:22

and even Streamy Yard is incorporating some AI technology

23:25

into their platform too. But, but the big news about Streamy Yard is they got sold to

23:30

- A, - A company, um, based out of Italy.

23:34

Uh, it's called Vending Spoons out of Italy,

23:37

which also owns the, the Evernote, um, application

23:42

as well as the meetup application.

23:45

And they also, um, own a,

23:48

a video editing platform called Splice.

23:52

And so, so there's a big transition happening right now

23:55

at, at, at Streamy Yard. Um, I believe both

23:59

of the founders may not be with the company anymore.

24:01

I don't know. That's not confirmed yet. Right.

24:04

Um, but I get a sense that that is probably happened. That's

24:08

- Interesting. They're not gonna hang out for a couple of years and

24:11

- Well, they got acquired by Hopin like,

24:13

like four years ago, and then this is the second acquisition

24:18

that they've, they've endured. Wow. So, so this purchase, um, is,

24:25

I think is, is gonna dramatically change the company.

24:28

And, and it looks like after doing some, some research into the new company that's,

24:32

that's acquired, it's a company that most of the team is based out of a, a Milan, Italy.

24:39

Um, so it's an Italian company that bought it,

24:42

- But where is most the Streamy Yard team

24:45

- In the us? - So what's, you know, so what's that mean for the product?

24:50

Is it gonna turn sideways and flip over?

24:53

- Nobody really know. I mean, I don't know yet. Um, so it's,

24:57

it's only been a week since it was announced. Yeah,

24:59

- Yeah. - So it's still early days on that.

25:02

But, you know, I have a, I have a relation,

25:05

a contract relationship with, with Streamy Yard,

25:08

but you know, who knows? - Yeah. - You know, change happens That's right.

25:12

In these type of situations. So, you know, who knows what

25:16

that looks like going forward. But, so - I'll tell you a call I had yesterday.

25:21

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And I got a call from this lady

25:26

and she was exasperated and she's not a hosting customer.

25:30

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> got recommended to me through a third party.

25:34

And, uh Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, she says, tell me

25:37

how much your guys' hosting costs. I said, well, our plan started, most

25:41

of our customers on a $20 plan,

25:43

but it's 12, 20, 40, 80 professionals, a hundred.

25:46

And I explained what the pro account was, and she said, 2020 mm-Hmm, <affirmative> Really?

25:52

20. Are you serious? It's only 20.

25:55

I said, yes, it's $20 a month. She goes, you're not charging enough.

26:00

And I laughed and I said, well, I wish all potential customers had

26:03

had this type of an opinion. She goes, because,

26:06

- Well, Todd, can I make one little comment on that?

26:09

Sure. Um, I don't think any of the podcast hosting platforms

26:12

have taken to account inflation. Have they? - None of us have raised prices.

26:18

- It's an interesting point. I, I think. But go ahead and

26:21

- Continue it. It is an interesting point, but - Yeah, - So I don't even wanna say

26:26

what I think everyone should do, but that would be considered collusion.

26:29

So, um, - But I can, 'cause I'm not a part of Well,

26:33

- Okay. I know, but still it's, uh, you know, people.

26:36

And, but, and here's where the kicker was,

26:39

and this is where her point of view is. She says, I'm, uh, my company's spending $4,000 a month for

26:45

to produce four episodes a month. Really? And I said, really? I said, that's insanity

26:51

- Audio - Only audio only. And I said, what are you getting for that?

26:56

She said, four interviews. So whoever I know who $4,000, I know who she's with,

27:04

so I'm not gonna say which company she's with.

27:06

I'm not gonna bam base anybody for, uh,

27:09

they get four interviews a month. They're also using another, she,

27:14

their company's also paying another company to try

27:17

to find more interviews. So they're paying more money to another company.

27:21

They get four shorts a month,

27:25

one short for each episode. They don't edit.

27:31

They do post the episode and the show notes. Mm-Hmm.

27:35

<affirmative>. And she says, the own show notes look to be AI generated.

27:40

And Yeah. And she says, well, how much does your prohost,

27:47

uh, uh, I mean, your pro, 'cause we have a pro service.

27:51

Right? And I said, um, for four episodes a month,

27:55

I I can save you, um, several thousands of dollars.

28:00

Right. Because, you know, our pro, our pro production team,

28:03

it, it's, it's still, you know, it's not, um,

28:08

she's still gonna, she's gonna still spend a thousand

28:11

dollars mm-Hmm. <affirmative> to get four episodes out if she

28:14

wants a pro production team. But I said, they'll do the editing, they'll do show notes,

28:18

they'll do, they'll be with you online when you record, blah, blah, blah, blah.

28:21

And I just kinda laid it out. And to me, I was just like, $4,000

28:28

for four episodes a month. And really all they're truly getting is, so this

28:35

also is a part

28:39

of the podcasting business that probably is set for disruption.

28:44

Um, - I don't think there's that many people

28:48

that are actually doing that. Todd, - I am hearing you.

28:52

Do you think there is? I think there is. I saw, I saw a Facebook post today,

28:59

and it was, it was ironic.

29:01

It, I hadn't really paid atten.

29:04

I knew these booking services were getting expensive,

29:08

but I, I heard this, um, I saw this Facebook post

29:12

and it's in some favorite channel, so I have to be careful.

29:15

Well, no, it's, it's from, from, uh, as a post

29:18

by Jessica Rhodes, we know

29:21

how good we are Interview connections,

29:23

and I'm familiar with interview connections, and we don't need to prove it with a, I've got a client

29:27

of theirs and we don't need to prove it with a two booking audition

29:30

for a fraction of what we charge. And, and she is not the company that's I'm referring

29:36

to with this other lady. Right. She, but she says,

29:39

we offer a program which is $17,000

29:43

or 10 payments of $1,850 for 30 bookings

29:49

with 11 years experience, we knew how

29:51

to do two booking tryouts. So that's what she said.

29:54

So I don't know what all they do if they just do interview connections,

29:59

only interview connections. Um, and I don't know if they, again, I don't know.

30:05

I haven't filed, do they do production in shorts

30:08

and, and everything? As far as - I know, no.

30:11

I've, I've been on a one year contract with the interview connections before in the past. So

30:16

- $17,000 divided by 30 bookings.

30:19

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> is $566 a booking.

30:25

- Yeah. Well,

30:28

and there are shows out there, Todd, that are charging for, for placement now.

30:32

Um, and it's, it seems to be the, with a certain part

30:36

of the community, it kind of a hot new business model is to,

30:39

is to charge guests to - Charge - Be on your program.

30:43

- Well, I, I don't think in this market that these prices

30:47

of people paying $4,000 for four guests a month

30:51

or $566 per interview

30:55

is a sustainable, this market's changing

30:58

and people are looking to save money. So, I don't know.

31:02

- Yeah. It's the shift. Yeah. - So that's

31:04

- Part of, part of the shift that's going on right now is

31:07

it's really interesting how this podcast market is, is

31:12

shifting and changing a little bit. And, and, and how, you know, what's working

31:16

and what isn't working is, is different too. But

31:20

- In the reason that she called me an exasperation

31:22

was, and here's the reason. The, the gal is

31:28

a contract.

31:31

She's, she's doing a podcast for a brand. She's the talent.

31:36

And, um, the company's trying to decide

31:40

with their overhead as high as it is, $50,000 a year

31:45

to do an episode a week, whether

31:48

or not this investment is worth it. So here I am charging $20 a month for a hosting account.

31:55

- Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. - And you have a business

31:57

that is now about ready to abandon podcasting, right.

32:02

Because they're spending a thousand dollars a

32:04

month. So, oh,

32:08

- Per per episode you mean? - Yeah, per episode. Yes. A thousand dollars per episode

32:14

- Per week. So, right. - And so I, I'm just sitting back kinda like,

32:22

these people are gonna put me outta business, you know,

32:25

that are charging $566 for one guest booking.

32:31

And then, and then people have the call to say, it's

32:34

that your hosting costs are too high at $20 a month.

32:37

And don't get me wrong, I, you know, it just,

32:41

it just two things, two, two things that just

32:45

presented itself in front of me in two days

32:47

and made me really sit back and say, first of all, I'm gonna help creators,

32:53

whatever I can do at my company, we're gonna do whatever we can do

32:57

to help creators produce podcasts at a very low rate,

33:01

very low production cost rate. And so for her, she's like, um, she says,

33:09

who am she said, I don't even know the lady that called me.

33:11

She said, I don't even know who I'm hosting with. And I went, looked, oh, she does. Didn't even know.

33:16

Has not a clue. And, uh, I, I looked it up.

33:21

I said, oh, you're hosting with such and such. She says, how much does their service cost a month?

33:25

And I told her, and she's just like, you,

33:28

you can hear it on the other end. You know, she, she was a very polite woman and she,

33:33

but she could have been cussing and her livelihood is now being impacted

33:38

because of these very high end, very,

33:43

very high end productions that their, their company is doing, uh, to have a branded podcast.

33:49

Um, and, you know, they look at the stats numbers

33:53

and just like any other show out there, a hundred, 200,

33:57

actually I think they're up to about 600 people an episode listening, which is

34:00

pretty good for a business podcast. Um, I didn't look it up. She told me.

34:06

'cause I, we don't host them. But the, it just to me was just like, yeah, if I'm a,

34:13

if I'm a business owner, I'm, I'm looking at that ROI

34:17

as well, you know, I'm, I'm gonna say, okay, we're reaching

34:21

how many people and I'm spending $50,000 a year.

34:27

She didn't tell me how much she was getting paid. So there's more money.

34:31

'cause they're paying a talent to do this too. Mm-Hmm. So

34:39

if you - Go ahead.

34:41

Yeah, I think I totally see where you're going with that. I mean, and I think that's part of what one

34:45

of the Uber trends that are going on right now is this

34:47

recognition that, uh, people have been way overspending on

34:52

producing podcasts. You know, even, even the big media companies are cutting

34:56

back and how much they're spending for a,

34:58

for a show production. So I think this is part of a big Uber kind of trend

35:03

that's going on in the podcasting space, is that we're getting back to really

35:08

what the podcast Medium has really been all about is,

35:10

is very efficient production of content.

35:13

And, and that has been a direction the industry has kind

35:17

of abandoned because of the pursuit of the almighty dollar.

35:20

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Um, but Todd, before we kind of expand further on that, I wanted

35:25

to ask you, because this came up online in a,

35:28

in a discussion thread that I saw about, um, this perception

35:32

that people have about what a branded podcast is.

35:35

What is your particular perception of

35:39

what a branded podcast is versus just a regular podcast?

35:43

- Well, if we have, again, I,

35:46

I don't call 'em branded podcasts to my customers,

35:49

they call themselves No, but what, to me. Yeah. But to me it's a, yeah. What does

35:53

- It mean to you - Is a distinction.

35:55

PO Podcast Insider that Blueberry does is a branded podcast. It's our, so

36:00

- It's a podcast in support of a, of a company or a business, right? Yes. Is

36:04

- That Yes, yes. - Kinda what it is. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

36:08

'cause this conversation came up, uh, um, with a fellow out

36:12

of the UK because he's been hearing conflicting definitions

36:17

on what a broad, what a branded podcast is.

36:20

And mine is, is is really clear.

36:22

It's, it's any podcast that's really being produced in support of a, a company

36:27

or a corporation. Yeah. Um, and isn't really, or, or

36:31

- A product or a service. Again, it's, which is

36:35

- A company or a, or a corporation, right?

36:38

Yeah. Yeah. It can be a, if you

36:40

as an individual have a company and you're doing a podcast that's around the topic

36:45

of your company, then that's a branded podcast.

36:48

This show, if you were to define it,

36:51

I wouldn't define it as a branded podcast. - No's not a branded podcast.

36:55

- Right. But, but a show like the, you know,

36:59

the Trader Joe's podcast, uh, is a branded podcast.

37:02

- Yeah. Podcast. Podcast insiders. Purely a branded podcast.

37:06

It's, we're telling our ideology, our products

37:08

and services, what we're doing, how we think you should be doing it, you know that.

37:13

Absolutely. And we put the blueberry brand behind it.

37:16

- Yeah. And it's not necessarily, it shouldn't be actually kind of just like a commercial

37:20

- No. For, - For that brand.

37:23

It should be about education, helping people understand the market.

37:27

Um, that maybe that company - Is 90% of the stuff we do in Podcast

37:30

Insider is educational. - Right. - And if we have a new product, we'll talk,

37:34

we'll announce it, talk and go over it, but we don't, yeah.

37:37

- It's the same thing I'm doing for, for Streamy Yard

37:39

with the show, the podcast tips that I'm doing.

37:41

It's, it's not a commercial for - Stream Yard.

37:44

It's like, it's like Libson in their podcast and whoever else does one for their companies.

37:48

Yeah. Yeah. Same thing. So, so

37:51

- I mean, just to be clear, I was just, because the said came up on online in a big thread,

37:56

and it's like the person

37:58

that posted this thread was like saying

38:00

that everybody understands it to means something different.

38:03

And that's very confusing. - We did get a few boost, I think, let me see here.

38:12

Of course, the Stream is not working in Fountain

38:15

still says scheduled. I have no idea, Mike.

38:17

Let me, uh, let me send the live bat single out again.

38:20

I don't know why it didn't go. So thanks for the SATs there.

38:23

Let me know, Mike, for 1,701 sets.

38:27

Uh, let's see, what else? Did we get? Any others?

38:29

No, that's the only one so far. Um, so we are live

38:33

and lit with those new podcasting [email protected], so

38:37

be sure to get one and give it a try.

38:41

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Um, yeah, I, I just, uh,

38:46

it blow whenever I hear, it's just like last year I heard

38:49

of a company that was a, a magazine,

38:54

I'll leave it at that financial magazine.

38:57

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> that was spending like $40,000 a month

39:00

for their podcast production. And, and I,

39:03

and I basically said, you know what, what Brother-in-law got hooked up.

39:07

You know, I, I was like, what kind of deal was that?

39:10

You know? And um, so, you know, I think there is going

39:14

to be at some point here a reckoning, uh, as,

39:19

as, as as people's but belts, I don't know what, did it feel like everyone was,

39:23

uh, living high in the hog at NAB?

39:25

Or, uh, was it a, uh, you know,

39:28

what was the price point you were seeing for products out there?

39:31

Was it 99, 95 or 39? 95 point 95?

39:36

You know, what was the price point of stuff? - Are you talking about the the

39:40

devices and things that were being - Sold for? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

39:43

- Yeah. I mean, usually at the NAB you don't see

39:45

pricing, um, always too - Much. Always ask. Yeah.

39:48

- Yeah. I don't always ask. So I can't really speak to that specifically.

39:53

It's more about sharing the tech of it and,

39:56

and there wasn't a lot of companies announcing new things at the event.

40:01

Um, so it was just one, one of those things that, um,

40:05

people are just, you know, showing their wares.

40:07

- I have not been on the, I, 'cause I was not registered,

40:11

I haven't been on the deluge of emails.

40:14

Mm-Hmm. So my, a few people

40:16

that are in the press know me have said, Hey, let's meet.

40:19

And I'm like, well, I'm not there this year. And they're like, what? So,

40:24

- Yeah. So Todd, I wanted to mention too that I saw that, uh,

40:27

Steven, um, Bartlett, um, of the host

40:32

of the Diary of A CEO, um,

40:36

has launched a podcast company

40:38

and he's hired, uh, a couple of former Acast folks

40:42

to manage it for him. So he has a very popular YouTube show that's also a podcast,

40:49

um, and is basically jumping in with both feet, uh, trying

40:53

to do this, like we've been talking about this convergence

40:56

strategy of doing YouTube as well as podcasting.

41:00

And he's started a new company that's,

41:02

uh, focused on doing that. And he's based out of the uk

41:06

but he is gonna have an office here in, in New York.

41:10

So if you haven't ever watched the Diary of A CEO, he,

41:13

he has some very compelling guests and he has a very compelling production too.

41:18

Um, not unlike like the, the Impact theory, um,

41:22

kind of kind of video show on, on YouTube.

41:25

And I think that there's some lessons

41:27

to learn from what they're doing. It's a conversational interview format, um, that's there.

41:33

And, and it is transferable over to an audio podcast.

41:37

So there are successful examples that are starting

41:40

to pop up, um, that are trying to walk this divide

41:43

between audio and, and, and video increasingly.

41:47

And so I think we are seeing this happen, Todd.

41:49

- Well, man, and welcome all of the video first creators

41:53

to the podcast community. Uh, welcome to the, well, well,

41:57

- Yeah, I mean, you've got the tool now, right? That's Yeah. To, to help them make that jump.

42:01

So if they want to primarily create for YouTube, then work

42:03

with Todd and, and the blueberry platform to get

42:05

that channel fed into his platform and get it out as an auditor.

42:08

- Yeah. And don't even have to do nothing. Set it up and set it and forget it.

42:13

- Yeah. - Um, you know, and it's, it's, um, it's interesting

42:18

because basically what I, let me,

42:24

I'll just do a little preview here. I'll tell you what I did. I, the, uh,

42:31

the podcast Asia event Oh yeah.

42:34

Is, um, going to, yeah.

42:37

The agenda was a little, little video,

42:42

a little video heavy. So I've been thinking about this. Yeah. I

42:46

- Talked to Chris last night before I flew back

42:48

because he was at the NAB too. So he had a million questions for me about what,

42:53

what I saw at the NAB, because he's, he's trying to take

42:56

what he's seeing in these big competitive kind of

42:59

conferences and trying to make sure that he's at the cutting edge of what's going on.

43:03

So, and I would say that too, Todd, is that

43:06

what I'm seeing at the NAB is this emphasis towards digital

43:09

video is, is really kind of on everybody's mind right now. Well,

43:14

- How, how about, how about this for a title?

43:17

Yeah. Beyond the visual mastering multimodal podcasting.

43:23

- Yeah. Okay. So what is that from,

43:28

- That's the title of the presentation I'm going to give at,

43:33

uh, podcast Asia. - Oh, okay. Yeah. - Awesome.

43:37

Be beyond the visual mastering multiple modal podcasting.

43:41

- Okay. So you're talking about going from video

43:43

to audio is your, which makes sense. No,

43:46

- I'm gonna talk about the benefit. What I, and I'm gonna be very realistic, you know, you know,

43:53

my stance that, uh, very small percentage of people, very,

43:57

very small percentage, tiny percentages of people

44:02

can be successful in the video sphere. So Yeah.

44:06

- But there clearly are people that are being successful over

44:08

- That. But again, yeah. If you look at the masses,

44:12

- No, of course. Right. - You know, if, if you look at the masses,

44:15

- It's the same thing with podcasting, Todd. Not everybody makes it big on

44:18

- Podcasting either. I understand that. Right. But you have a higher chance

44:22

of being successful in audio than you do in video by far.

44:26

So - I don't know that that's necessarily, I mean,

44:30

is there any evidence that you have of that, Todd? - Yeah, just look at the percentage of the small percentage

44:35

of people that make it in YouTube so small.

44:40

- But Todd, you can't really capture that data to

44:42

- Make Well, they know that. Well, they, they say what, how many people are

44:45

monetized on the platform? So you, you know. Yeah.

44:49

- But that doesn't necessarily mean anything in my view. So

44:51

- Yeah, because you could be monetized and not making any money, just like in podcasting,

44:55

you can be monetized and not making any money either. So the all things that's people, you

45:00

- Can also be monetized without being a part

45:03

of the YouTube monetization program. That's - Right. So

45:07

- It's, - You could, - It's not a good kind of gauge on,

45:10

- Well, again, - Your metric. Right. - Again, you know, why are you, why are you going, okay.

45:16

Again, ni I predict

45:21

that every, if everyone that wants to do all this great video stuff, they, they,

45:26

they're gonna burn out faster than anyone else

45:28

because of the higher end and the way people like to edit

45:32

the production time, everything. I think the burnout rate is gonna be off the chart

45:38

and people are gonna quit quicker. - Yeah. But don't, I wouldn't discourage people from

45:43

- Doing end. I'm not discouraging people. Not

45:45

- At all. That's kind of how it comes across. Well, - You know, it's because it's true.

45:50

- I, I don't know for everyone that, that, that it is true.

45:53

I think there are people that have a lot of natural gifts on the visual side. Well,

45:57

- Maybe they do again. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> again, I think it's, again,

46:01

I said multimodal, - Right? So I, I mean,

46:06

- If he - Is not podcasting is really always

46:09

been audio and video. - So go back religions until, until two years ago.

46:14

You know, people forgot about video. - I don't think anybody forgot about it, Todd.

46:19

I just don't think that the industry of podcasting was embracing video.

46:24

I think it was more, more that they were, uh, focused

46:28

- Exclusively on this audio. When when did, when did the narrative start to change

46:31

that video is everything. YouTube didn't make this, uh, plan to bring, to do

46:37

what they were gonna do just overnight. They, they, they had a long term to me,

46:43

to me it was very strategic. What they did was very smart.

46:48

And, you know, so they fed a narrative

46:52

and people had bought into the narrative. I don't a hundred percent believe the narrative.

46:58

So, 'cause I just don't see it. I see the data.

47:01

I don't see it. So.

47:04

- Well, it doesn't, I mean, I mean you're,

47:07

you've shifted Todd to a strategy that is embracing video to audio.

47:12

- Absolutely. 'cause they don't know what they strategy. They don't, there's no,

47:15

they don't know what they're missing. - Yeah. But there's no reason why

47:19

a creator can't start in video and then just shift over to audio.

47:23

- They could. They could. And if they are, they're, that's

47:25

- Part of your - Strategy. If they're, if they're doing video, then they are YouTuber

47:30

and they are doing video. But Todd,

47:32

- You're okay capturing Raiders on

47:35

your platform that are Absolutely. That are doing, doing video, right?

47:38

- Oh, absolutely. - So I wouldn't discourage

47:41

- Todd. I'm not, I'm not discouraging. We're gonna bring people over from the dark side into the

47:45

light, you know, so - <laugh> - See it as an opportunity.

47:52

Todd. What, and I know that you are, but you're not always, you know, telling me that.

47:56

- So, but for audio podcasters that are currently audio podcasters,

48:00

and I don't have to say it a hundred times because I've already said it a hundred.

48:03

- Yeah. - Be careful. Be strategic.

48:08

Don't think that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.

48:12

This is the thing. This is, and, and that's all I have to say. It's

48:15

- Tough on both sides, Todd. Let's be honest about it.

48:17

It's not easy to be a content creator, period. Oh,

48:20

- It's true. But I will say this, audio shows right now are on a

48:25

major upswing because of this narrative that's going

48:29

around the podcasting is, is is dead.

48:33

Well, no, the audience members are, haven't left.

48:36

They're still here. And shows are growing.

48:40

- Well, existing shows are growing. - Oh, absolutely. Well,

48:44

- I would profess to say is that the energy

48:47

around new audio podcasts is not really there.

48:51

- I think the Well, those that are starting are new,

48:54

- New video creators. The energy is there.

48:57

- I don't know about that. It's, it's, it's not changed. Then

49:00

- Why is everybody talking about video then Todd? Because

49:02

- Everybody - Talks about video. Nobody is really talking about an audio

49:06

first strategy right now. - Well, uh, then let's let it play out.

49:12

- I'm not arguing with you necessarily on that point.

49:15

I'm just arguing with you that what we see in the market today,

49:17

and I saw it at NEB big time, is this emphasis

49:21

around video opportunities. And it, and it's increasingly, everybody I talk to,

49:27

it's like that's, that's, that's what everybody's interested in doing.

49:30

And if you're a platform that's not kind of catering to that

49:34

of which you shifted and you are.

49:36

So, so it's, it, it's just confirmation to me that, uh,

49:40

that this is, this is where the opportunity is to grow going forward

49:44

- Is on the video side, new, new, new programming

49:47

that's coming online all across the board.

49:50

Across the board. Audio content at this time is growing at faster

49:55

rates than we've ever seen before. - Growing in what

49:58

- Audience aspect and audience size,

50:02

because again, we're down to 300.

50:05

Let me go over and look at the numbers. Uh, what are we, what are we at right now?

50:10

- Well, Todd, if you look at the new audio podcast, uh, show

50:15

creation numbers, it's pretty flat. Uh,

50:18

- We're keeping our head above the water last 30 days,

50:21

355,000 shows updated.

50:23

So it's down again, but guess what?

50:27

- Well, it's up and down every week. So - Yeah.

50:30

Uh, it continues to, to nudge down on the number

50:33

of new audio shows, but those that aren't Well,

50:36

- Okay. Okay. You're talking about new show series? Oh,

50:40

- No, we're talking about - Publishing of episodes. - Yeah, yeah. Publishing of episodes.

50:44

- So I see it up and down almost every

50:47

- Other week. But here's the main thing is that the shows

50:51

that are publishing are growing. It doesn't matter if they're new or old.

50:55

My personal show at Geek Central. Yeah,

50:57

- Yeah. - I'm up like 16% already this year. This year. I don't.

51:03

And yeah, I don't. Okay. Why - I don't disagree with that. It's

51:06

- Why am I - Existing shows are, are,

51:08

are typically doing okay. And they're, they're

51:11

- Growing and therein lies the opportunity. So

51:14

- It is, but the problem is people aren't thinking Yeah.

51:17

Audio first right now they're thinking of video first. Well

51:19

- Then that's why I'm here. - Yeah, I know you are. And it's, and it's, it's okay.

51:25

But I also think it's, it's definitely, it's definitely there's a reason why people are not starting

51:31

audio shows right now. And it's because all the attention is focused on, on video.

51:36

And I, I see your point. I mean, if, if people really dedicated themselves

51:41

to creating a quality audio production,

51:44

uh, they could probably grow. And - It's sure a lot easier

51:47

to create a quality audio show than it is

51:49

to create a quality video show. - But those creators that are going

51:54

to consider starting a new audio show are gonna be,

51:57

are gonna feel the market pressure to create video too.

52:01

Well that's, that's just the reality of the market right now.

52:04

- Uh, the majority of people that I've asked me about

52:07

that Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And we look at the realities

52:10

of the upfront cost and production time.

52:13

Don't do it. So Yeah.

52:17

And it said some won't.

52:20

- Yeah. It's like telling somebody not to do something

52:24

that they hear from everybody else in the market

52:26

that they should be doing it well and - It's okay.

52:28

- It's a hard thing to convince. It's somebody not to do something

52:31

that they're hearing from all the experts to

52:33

- Say, not not, not everyone has the talent to do video.

52:38

- I don't, I don't disagree with you on that point either at all.

52:41

I'm just saying that the market is telling

52:44

Raiders right now to be - Why, why is about video.

52:48

Why do you think that is? - Because of primarily because of YouTube. Yeah.

52:53

- Yeah, exactly. - And

52:56

- That's, and, and, and what, that's - A factor that we can't, uh, exclude

53:00

because they are the number one platform

53:05

to find content in the world right now.

53:10

So, you know, gotta - To a small percentage of shows.

53:16

- No, it's the number one platform. It's it's the second largest search engine on the

53:20

- Internet. I understand that. To a small percentage of channels.

53:25

- No, you're talking, - I'm talking about YouTube. If someone be

53:29

- Very specific here, Todd. If - You're searching for - Some, you're saying

53:31

to a small number of channels that are podcasts. So

53:35

- No, I'm saying to when someone goes on YouTube

53:38

and searches for something AKA something,

53:43

they're going to presented a small number

53:46

of the top channels in YouTube.

53:51

Yeah. There's a lot of search being done, distributed

53:55

to a small number globally, a small number. I

53:59

- Think we're talking about two different things. - No, we're not. So if I go on, if I go, if I go on YouTube

54:03

- And you're talking about the algorithm versus search,

54:06

- Those are two different, okay. If I go, if I go on, if I go on YouTube

54:09

and I search for a topic, what do they show me?

54:12

They show me the top shows only

54:16

and those categories for that category of content.

54:20

- Sure. I would say some of 'em that come up in the results,

54:23

but they also have to be relevant to the search query.

54:26

- Right. And again, but they only surface there's millions of shows on YouTube.

54:32

- Yeah, right. That was kind of my point.

54:34

It's it's, it's not a small

54:37

- No, no, it's content pool. So the content pool is, makes it nearly impossible

54:43

unless you're con unless you have climbed the

54:46

ranks to be found,

54:52

- That's, well, you better better get in the search results.

54:55

- Well, everyone is in the search results. If they're doing a YouTube channel,

54:59

they're writing a title, they're writing. Uh, but again, YouTube puts, it's

55:03

- The same thing with podcasting. YouTube, they may not be doing it right,

55:05

- But YouTube puts more emphasis on, on YouTube channels

55:10

that have had high amounts of playtime. And they may have the same exact, they may have a topic

55:15

that's rated they're gonna get ranked higher than a show

55:18

that's brand new or someone that's new trying to grow.

55:20

If they don't have very many views, they're,

55:23

they're not gonna be surface. - Well, they're an ad business, Todd.

55:27

- Oh, that's true. They are, they're, they're, so

55:30

- Why - There you go, there you go, there you go.

55:35

You just, bam you hit it on the head,

55:38

they're gonna surface stuff. Well they're, that they can sell the most advertising

55:42

to, right? Absolutely.

55:46

- Yeah. And that's that I think I,

55:50

I think everybody should know that, right? That that's, that's what they're doing

55:53

- In podcasting. When someone searches on Google, yeah,

55:58

you're gonna have some ads, maybe a search, but you still have the chance of being surfaced much higher

56:03

in a Google search than you ever will in a YouTube search.

56:06

- Well then I would say that Apple needs to get their act together because

56:10

what they're doing in their search is sucks.

56:13

So it's not gonna generate, um, links

56:17

to active shows. It's gonna clutter your search results with a bunch

56:21

of archive shows. And that, that is not what YouTube primarily is doing. No,

56:27

- That's for sure. - So, you know, I think that podcasting can learn from,

56:32

to some degree what YouTube does. I'm not, you know, it's this, this conflict

56:37

between search results or automatic starting to play things.

56:43

So let's say you watch one video and then, uh, once you finish that

56:46

and you didn't click to watch something else, um,

56:49

on a purposeful basis and it just defaults to the next video,

56:52

oftentimes YouTube will default to a more

56:55

of an archive show, but it'll be relevant,

56:58

it'll be relevant to your interests. Right? So you look at what, um, apple does,

57:03

apple doesn't really make any suggestions to you

57:08

that is intelligent around the topics

57:10

that you enjoy listening - To.

57:13

That's not how, but that's not how podcasting is. I don't wanna be force fed another show by Apple.

57:18

I want to No, but I want to feed my brain

57:22

and my intellect with the content that I have picked out.

57:25

And that's what makes podcasting a huge difference. Yeah.

57:29

And there's very few times, very few times when I get done playing

57:33

an episode on any podcast app where there isn't a show

57:37

that I'm subscribed to, doesn't have an episode I haven't

57:39

listened to available for me to listen to.

57:42

So the consumption is different. - Well just keep in mind is that we see we're,

57:48

we're seeing this algorithmic model in pod in

57:52

or podcasts in, uh, YouTube.

57:54

I think it's gonna wind up coming to Spotify and Apple at some point, the same model of, of, um,

58:02

algorithms deciding what the next episode

58:05

that you might wanna listen to more - Of a, I think Spotify. Sorry,

58:07

- Lean back, back experience. - Well, I, I don't, I don't wanna be fed

58:11

content that I'm not suspect. I know you - Don't talk.

58:14

There are people out there that may be okay with that.

58:17

- I don't know. I don't think that's the way the content, - It's more like, uh, it's more like a linear

58:20

- Radio experiment, I think. I think I think the, I think podcasting more is more of a,

58:26

I have chosen to listen. Oh, it is. I I just don't No,

58:29

- I agree with you, - Todd. I think the number of people, if someone forced some content

58:33

on me, I, I would put using the app.

58:37

- Yeah. But I think you're thinking

58:39

of it in a very negative light. - It is negative for me. It is negative for me,

58:43

it's a very negative experience to be forced to listen

58:47

to something that I don't wanna listen to. I don't like being fed a different content on YouTube.

58:51

Either I have a big enough channel list that I can go

58:54

and listen to something else. I don't like being force fed stuff on

58:58

YouTube, so maybe it's just me. - Well, it does force the, the user to, um,

59:04

make a, make a decision. So let's say they've listened to an episode

59:08

and they want to not get

59:11

what the algorithm will recommend to them.

59:14

They have to go back to their wall and select the next video.

59:17

- Absolutely. But I've got a playlist, so I don't have to worry about that.

59:20

I'm always got stuff in my queue, so I have

59:23

to go back to a wall. - So what, what the difference is is podcasts are

59:31

basically very similar to a channel on, on YouTube.

59:34

It's a series of episodes. Right? And, but it can be multiple, um, series of episodes.

59:41

Like I have probably four different series

59:45

on my one YouTube channel. So in each, um, some of them are podcasts,

59:51

considered podcasts in the algorithm, and other ones are, are not.

59:54

Uh, it just depends on what they are. Uh, we - Understand what that works.

59:57

But again, Rob, it just goes back then really the only

1:00:00

argument is here, I think podcasting has been to the point

1:00:04

where I don't, if someone wants to be fed,

1:00:07

and I'd love to hear this from the audience. Do you wanna be fed and something

1:00:11

that an logarithm tells you what's good to be next?

1:00:14

No. What I wanna do is I want Todd to make recommendations

1:00:20

to my audience of other stuff. I think, and I want my audience to make recommendations.

1:00:26

Um, I I,

1:00:29

I just, I, I just don't,

1:00:31

- When I'm talking about this, I'm not talking about that.

1:00:34

It, in my view, it's ideal that this is the shift that's gonna happen.

1:00:37

But I think that the logical conclusion these big tech companies are

1:00:42

gonna have is that they're gonna apply AI technology to

1:00:46

create these, these automated playlists.

1:00:48

- So they, they have to, 'cause guess what? They, I don't think Apple will,

1:00:51

but I it, if Spotify definitely will. 'cause guess what they wanna do? They wanna monetize

1:00:55

in between that content. They gotta pay bills. Right.

1:00:59

So, you know, of course they will.

1:01:01

And that's what YouTube does. They gotta make money. That's why they force you to watch.

1:01:06

'cause you're, if you're not paying for whatever their package is, they run an ad right?

1:01:11

That beginning of that next, uh, episode

1:01:13

that you've been forced, that they're forcing on you, right?

1:01:17

'cause it's, it's all about the money. That's what we have to contin continue to remember here, is

1:01:22

that it's, they're in the business to make money,

1:01:25

not put money in creator's pockets, unless you go through huge amounts of jumping through hoop.

1:01:31

Unless you have huge number of listening hours. Mm-Hmm.

1:01:34

<affirmative>. And then you get paid a CPM.

1:01:36

That's absolutely dog crap.

1:01:39

Um, so yeah.

1:01:44

- I, and so Todd, I think this, this kind

1:01:46

of takes us down this, this next kind

1:01:48

of rabbit hole path on this topic. All - I say is thank God podcasting's free and open

1:01:52

- As as, um, the concept of proprietary,

1:01:57

uh, platforms, right? And, and that is, that cuts

1:02:01

to the chase of this whole conversation. Well, - Spotify's learned podcasting doesn't work on a

1:02:05

proprietary platform. So they've, they've opened up

1:02:10

and they're now distributing their shows through open RSS

1:02:15

- Well, they've actually been doing that

1:02:18

for years now, Todd? No. - On their signed shows that they had underneath Lock

1:02:25

and Key, like Joe Rogan. Yeah. - Okay. The exclusive shows that they have.

1:02:29

- Right, right. Right. - Yeah. So, but they've, but they're kind of abandoning

1:02:33

that the exclusive, I think the days

1:02:35

of exclusive content are kind

1:02:38

of numbered at this point. Yeah. - They've learned. - But,

1:02:41

but you still have to look at like a Netflix and, uh, Amazon Prime, and there's exclusives there.

1:02:46

- Of course, there're gonna be exclusives there. But I What percentage

1:02:49

of the market share does Amazon Prime have

1:02:52

in the podcasting space? Less than what? One 10th of percent.

1:02:55

- Well, I'm, well, I'm not really saying it. I'm not really

1:02:57

seeing it as a, as really the same thing as the podcast

1:03:00

industry, but it's, it's just analogous to the trend lines

1:03:04

that we're seeing in media right now, um, around

1:03:08

this concept of proprietary versus open.

1:03:11

Right. Um, and I think we have seen this shift,

1:03:14

like you said, Todd, with Spotify shifting back

1:03:17

to more open distribution. And I think the big reason for that is

1:03:21

that they saw more ad revenue opportunities Yeah.

1:03:23

Of by, by getting their content, um, even outside

1:03:26

of their platform, YouTube won't use it was really a profit

1:03:28

motive to actually make that move. It wasn't because they all

1:03:31

of a sudden got altruistic about open - Versus closed.

1:03:34

Yeah. YouTube, YouTube won't do that though. - No. Because they've, they built their model around. Yeah.

1:03:41

Actually everything that's going on, Todd, uh,

1:03:43

drives more content to YouTube.

1:03:45

Right. So even, even, well, I guess your strategy is

1:03:50

to take content out of their platform Absolute driving

1:03:53

to a new medium. That's right. Which is a smart approach.

1:03:56

I, I, I think that's a great

1:03:59

- Approach. And, and why do I have different media

1:04:01

types, not podcasters. Why do I now different media types saying we want out

1:04:07

of X locked in platform. We wanna be open, we don't wanna be tied.

1:04:11

I think there's a shift even amongst creators and maybe Mr.

1:04:15

Uh, Mr. Beast or whatever his name is, has figured out that, uh,

1:04:20

maybe he's worth a lot more on the open market

1:04:23

than he is in a closed market. - I would say Todd, Mr. Beast is the number one, um,

1:04:29

online content creator in the world. So, I mean, he's even bigger than Joe.

1:04:33

- So would you, he probably has realized

1:04:36

that he's worth more on the open market than being

1:04:40

restricted to a closed market. - Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. - So if Mr.

1:04:45

B says, I need to be other places beyond YouTube. Hmm.

1:04:51

- Yeah. I mean, it's Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, it's interesting, but I don't see his content

1:04:55

ever becoming a, a podcast unless it's a video podcast.

1:04:58

But that's kind of, that's kind what he's already

1:05:00

- Doing. He does, so does different content. So - It's kinda what he's already doing.

1:05:03

So, but, but again, it doesn't make any sense. But - Again, it's, uh, people are starting to realize,

1:05:08

and it's not just YouTubers, it's not just, it's people

1:05:12

that create audio books. It's people that create documentaries.

1:05:15

It includes musicians. Mm-Hmm. They all knew they're getting screwed.

1:05:20

Now, I saw a, a TikTok from, um,

1:05:29

oh my God, smokes a lot of weed, um, rapper,

1:05:35

Snoop Dogg, um, Snoop Dog.

1:05:37

Yeah. Um, he had, uh, he announced his earnings

1:05:41

from Spotify, and it was something like,

1:05:46

I don't wanna say it was either 52 million or 52 billion.

1:05:50

One of those two numbers views on

1:05:53

TikTok, I mean, on Spotify.

1:05:56

And his check was only $52,000. Really?

1:06:01

His royalty check that he got. So, let, let me see here.

1:06:04

Let's say, if I can find this, Snoop

1:06:09

Dogg announces

1:06:13

earnings from Spotify.

1:06:21

Okay. Yeah. Snoop Dogg unveiled the stark reality

1:06:25

of streaming economics, disclosing a mere $45,000

1:06:30

for a billion Spotify streams.

1:06:32

A surprising revelation on Business United Podcasts.

1:06:36

Now, if you have a billion plays of your music track,

1:06:41

and you get a shitty little check of $45,000, then

1:06:47

if, if an artist, music artist like this,

1:06:50

who is gotten a billion plays

1:06:55

on a streaming platform, only gets a check for $45,000,

1:06:59

there's something seriously wrong, seriously wrong

1:07:04

with the compensation for creators.

1:07:10

And he hasn't pulled his movie music from Spotify.

1:07:16

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But why, why are creators?

1:07:21

Because these companies don't care about creators.

1:07:25

And if we looked at the rev split that probably YouTube

1:07:29

and others take, and how much money they earn off creators,

1:07:33

I think creators, YouTubers, podcasters, music artists,

1:07:39

um, book writers, um, movie creators,

1:07:43

maybe it is time to take control.

1:07:46

Because I bet you that if I had Snoop Dogg's music

1:07:53

in Wave Lake, and he was doing value for value,

1:07:58

that he would've made a heck of a lot more than $45,000 on

1:08:03

probably less than a million plays. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So there's got some at some point,

1:08:11

regardless of people where, what they wanna do and,

1:08:13

and how people wanna be moved to live streaming,

1:08:16

is it in the benefit of a creator to go all in on this?

1:08:21

Um, I, I, I,

1:08:25

- Well, Todd, then that begs, begs another question is, uh,

1:08:28

well, where do they go and how do they approach, I know that there's a big upswing,

1:08:32

and I saw this even NAB, around, uh, platforms

1:08:36

that are coming out that are, that are being built, you know, like Patreon.

1:08:39

Yeah. And, and ful and

1:08:42

- Exactly. And, - Uh, and that are, that are building platforms

1:08:45

to support creators in other ways of monetizing I i

1:08:49

and building community. - I think that is what, what have,

1:08:55

what have we, you know? Yes. Yes, yes. And yes, and yes and yes. Yeah.

1:09:01

Sure. I will. That's, - That's the blowback from this, is that more,

1:09:04

more creators are gonna go out and build their own communities and build their own. And,

1:09:08

- And the challenge is, is maybe you won connection.

1:09:10

Maybe you, maybe you won't be discovered

1:09:13

and get so big on YouTube, but maybe you can make more money on your own.

1:09:17

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> without the big

1:09:21

machine taking a chunk, - Though, I would say that most

1:09:25

of these creators are gonna look at and say, well, maybe I need to take like,

1:09:29

like a freemium model, which is like, put some free content out there in these big platforms

1:09:35

to attract people to my, - Yeah.

1:09:37

I think most people don't. - My, my close platform, - You know, I, I, I, I, more

1:09:41

and more I participate in value for value.

1:09:44

The more I think it's, that's the way to go. It's just because if you're giving value and get value back,

1:09:50

and you don't need, you know, all, you know,

1:09:52

the example I gave, uh, to a podcaster the other day is like, okay, you know,

1:09:57

they wanted to monetize and they have a small show, you know, two, 3000 listeners

1:10:03

and, um, which, you know,

1:10:05

we can probably get 'em a host Red Deal for two or 3000.

1:10:07

I said, you know, for 3000, let, let's just say 5,000 listeners,

1:10:11

you're probably gonna make a, a gross revenue of 125.

1:10:15

You after the split. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you're left with 70%.

1:10:17

Let's say it's a hundred bucks. You know, you gross a a hundred

1:10:21

after a split, you're left with $70 for your audience.

1:10:25

I said, all you need in your audience is one

1:10:28

or two, maybe three people to make small donations.

1:10:32

And you have already met

1:10:35

or made more than what a CPM model is by providing,

1:10:39

you know, value getting donations, Patreon, whatever you want to call it.

1:10:43

Um, so again, I think there's economics here

1:10:48

that work the other way around. Now, Mr.

1:10:52

Beast, you know, would he have been able to earn the type

1:10:56

of money he earned being off YouTube? Probably not. But again, he's an anomaly.

1:11:00

He's the, you know, one, one, 1000000th of 1%

1:11:04

of the YouTubers help there, see his type of success.

1:11:07

I'm, you know, again, I don't know what the number is, but, - Um, yeah, but he's actually moving, moving more of his,

1:11:13

uh, monetization and distribution off of

1:11:16

- YouTube. 'cause I think probably he's woke up

1:11:18

and said, I can make more. I'm worth more off this platform than I'm not giving up 80%

1:11:24

of my revenue back to YouTube. - Well, he is seeing it just like what, um, Joe Rogan saw it

1:11:29

as, as if, if he does a deal, right.

1:11:32

A distribution deal on, on some other Sure.

1:11:36

More monetized platform, like let's say, uh, Amazon Prime

1:11:39

or, uh, Netflix or something like that, and put his content out over there

1:11:42

or off of some cable channel somewhere that he can,

1:11:45

he can get a royalty check out out of that. That's in addition to you. Sounds

1:11:49

- Like, sounds like Mr. Beast is gonna be a trendsetter. Come on.

1:11:54

He's, he's, come on, YouTubers. Come on. Come on.

1:11:56

He's, he's, we'll leave. We'll leave the light. - He's been a trendsetter. We, we'll

1:11:59

- Leave the years. We'll leave the light on for you. Come on down. Right,

1:12:03

- Right, right. I

1:12:05

- Don't - Think he wants to be yelling at his audience anymore.

1:12:08

I, which would make him a bad podcaster.

1:12:11

- I think. You know, you know, and here's the thing too, Rob, I I have to play devil's advocate here

1:12:15

because you, you have bit the YouTube bug.

1:12:18

It's, you, you are, you've been hypnotized and, uh,

1:12:23

- I mean, we're playing our parts here, Todd,

1:12:25

that are reflective of the market, so, right.

1:12:28

Um, yeah. I also, uh, uh, went out

1:12:32

and did a, did a meetup, uh, at the NAB, uh,

1:12:36

with a company called, uh, U Screen.

1:12:39

And that's not Ustream. It's U screen.

1:12:42

- U screen, like in screen, - Uh, screen.

1:12:47

Like, like you're watching me on this. Oh,

1:12:50

- Okay. You screen right - Now screen you screen, uh, which is a, a,

1:12:57

a platform for video creators building profitable membership groups.

1:13:02

So that's the purpose of this platform. Oh

1:13:05

- My God. - Yeah. - Look at the price.

1:13:09

- Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, - I can do better than that.

1:13:14

- <laugh> hundred. - Wow. Look at the price.

1:13:19

- It says it's the only platform focused on,

1:13:22

entirely on making it easy for video creators

1:13:25

to deliver a premium membership with video content

1:13:29

built in community and mobile apps, and a subscription revenue model built into this.

1:13:35

- You're forcing po uh, listener to get another app

1:13:38

that's a failure already. A hundred ninety nine, five ninety nine plus

1:13:44

plus a dollar 99 per paid member,

1:13:47

plus a you have oh 5 99.

1:13:50

And then you have to pay for every member that

1:13:55

What is this model? Are you sure I'm on the right P plate? You screen tv?

1:14:00

Is, is that the right place? - Yeah, that's right.

1:14:04

- This is insane. Why, why would, so I'm gonna pay them a buck 99

1:14:10

for every person that joins my community. - Well, Todd, let me explain a little bit more

1:14:16

what's going on behind the scenes here. This is a platform that caters to

1:14:21

currently today caters to big content creators, right?

1:14:25

Ones that have huge numbers of, that are a part

1:14:29

of their audience community right now. So that pricing is actually not out of the realm

1:14:35

of feasibility for a big creator, right?

1:14:38

But, uh, they are working on a version of this

1:14:42

that will be open to, let's say podcasters,

1:14:45

but like every, every day podcasters

1:14:47

that could utilize this type of a experience

1:14:51

to combine audio with video in a, a community

1:14:55

that would be off of, let's say a YouTube.

1:14:58

- So if I have a thousand people that sign up

1:15:02

for my channel, it's 500 blocks plus another 1500

1:15:06

for the pleasure of my audience joining my channel.

1:15:10

How can you pay how, - Hey Todd, I just said that they're gonna come out with a

1:15:15

- Lower price. Okay, I understand plan - To accomplish - This. I understand that, but

1:15:18

- You're focused on a kind of a mismatch here,

1:15:20

- Okay? Okay, hang on here. But even a pro plan, even for someone

1:15:24

that is famous, how can they afford to pay a dollar 49?

1:15:29

That's like saying to, that's like Rob saying, okay,

1:15:32

each I have to pay.

1:15:35

Okay? This is the example. Hey,

1:15:37

- Todd, Todd, some of the creators that they're working with are making a half million dollars a

1:15:40

- Year. Okay? But why do you pay? Okay, this makes no sense.

1:15:45

- It's a whole different, um, classification of content

1:15:49

- Creators. But at the same time, how do I extract a dollar 49 if I

1:15:54

said, okay, Rob, uh, because we're on blueberry and

1:15:57

because we have x number of people that are listening

1:15:59

to show, I, I, you have to write me a check for a dollar 49

1:16:04

for every person that listens to the show every month.

1:16:08

Listen, that's what model is that,

1:16:12

Todd? They have over - 4,000 content creators - On the platform.

1:16:15

Well, then that company should be getting go. If they're, if these creators being that stupid

1:16:20

to pay this kind of price, then guess what? But thought

1:16:23

- It's, but thought it's working for them. - How are they making more? Well, it wouldn't be doing it.

1:16:27

How are they making more than a dollar 49 for each person that joined?

1:16:31

- Well, that's joined. Well, what the platform does, that's what the platform does.

1:16:35

That's, that's what you're buying when you spend that money,

1:16:37

is you're buying the tools to be able to monetize on at scale like that.

1:16:42

- Okay, so what do we get here? Billy integration, third party Zapier integration,

1:16:47

shoppable videos, member content migrations, uh, you know,

1:16:52

- Need to think beyond just the $20 a month

1:16:55

or something, Todd, on, on content distribution? No,

1:16:57

- No. I'm think, I'm thinking there are - Tools that are - More powerful than I'm think I'm

1:17:01

thinking, how am I going to extract a dollar 49 from every person

1:17:05

that listens to this show? How do I get, how do I get every listener of this show

1:17:12

to pay for this service? How do I extract at least that much money outta, so, Todd,

1:17:18

- What if you charge each of your members 9.99 a month?

1:17:23

- Doesn't say anything about that in here. - Well, because the content creator

1:17:28

can set whatever price they want. So if they're being charged a buck 49, right?

1:17:34

Per user per month, but yet they're charging 5 99,

1:17:39

- That's a great, what's that - Delta between? - That's a, that's a great model

1:17:42

for you screen, my goodness. - Yeah. But they're also getting paid

1:17:46

to provide a powerful service that can service

1:17:49

that particular, uh, private community

1:17:52

- Again. - So 4,000 creators here on this that are taking advantage

1:17:57

of either the growth plan or the pro plan right now.

1:18:01

- That's pretty impressive. - It's a niche market. Definitely. Todd, how many,

1:18:06

- I'm not saying - So let's, let's gonna be like, you know,

1:18:09

a hundred thousand content creators. So, - Uh, let, - Let's, we're talking about

1:18:12

the top content creators. - So how, so how many of you

1:18:15

that are listening this show will follow me over to, uh,

1:18:19

you screen will put all the content over there?

1:18:22

Uh, Rob and I are paying the hundred. Well, - It's not all the content.

1:18:25

It would be some derivative content. Like, like what goes on at Patreon. Wow.

1:18:31

So, you know, the whole freemium model can,

1:18:33

can play here as well if you want to. It's got, it's got all of the capabilities

1:18:38

that you would want to have a, have a member organization

1:18:42

around your, your, your content. It can be different content from a podcast too.

1:18:47

It doesn't have to be the same content. - So it's yoga, fitness, education,

1:18:52

entertainment, lifestyle.

1:18:55

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> again, it's amazing me to,

1:19:00

it amazes to me if people are spending that kind

1:19:03

of money, that's, - It's the shift, Todd, from this concept of, of audience

1:19:09

to this concept of fans. So, you know, building a fan community versus

1:19:16

- That's, versus a fan. It's the same thing. Fans is audience. They're all the same.

1:19:22

- Not how a content creator needs to think about it though.

1:19:25

If you're building passionate fans, you want to have

1:19:28

that additional layer of engagement, right?

1:19:31

That can be monetized. So it's not a, a kind of a more of a passive relationship

1:19:39

that typically happens with a podcast. It's more of an active, active

1:19:43

connection with your audience. - Ross says that's - Where, that's, that,

1:19:46

that's where the future is. I believe - Ross says you don't pay per subscriber only if you're

1:19:51

managing a membership community. A subscriber pays nine, nine

1:19:56

or 1999 for access to, on-demand videos.

1:20:00

They are paying the creator. A lot of creators put courses type videos,

1:20:04

howtos Entertainment shows up. - Mm-Hmm. - <affirmative>. But a subscriber pays 9 99 to

1:20:09

who you screen or pays 9 99 or 19 nine to the creator.

1:20:15

- I'm sure it's paid to the creator. And then the platform takes that cut.

1:20:20

- Oh, they're gonna, yeah, a dollar that dollar 49 <laugh>.

1:20:24

- Well, it depends on which plan you have. You're paying four, nine a month.

1:20:27

It's a dollar 49 paid per member.

1:20:30

Or if you're paying the one $49 a month,

1:20:33

then it's a dollar 99. It's the same model that Patreon has, Todd. It's not a

1:20:39

- Paton just takes a percentage. You don't pay for every creator.

1:20:43

So you're, you're basically Yeah, but

1:20:46

- You could split that down to per,

1:20:49

per creator. Yeah. And come up - Up with a number.

1:20:51

It's gonna, it's gonna be what, 3%

1:20:53

or 4% audience number, whatever their number is.

1:20:56

- Right? - It's just a different business model. Just example. So money goes to the creator. Well, yeah.

1:21:01

Okay. Well, again, uh, I mean,

1:21:05

- This may be, this type of model may be increasingly

1:21:08

what we see creators start to move towards.

1:21:11

- But again, you're under the control of a platform. Um,

1:21:16

- It's true. - So again, you're going from one lock platform

1:21:19

to another lock platform. - See, I think one other thing to take away from this is

1:21:23

that, um, it may be

1:21:28

that this may be the only way that people can have, uh,

1:21:33

some form of free speech. As you look to the future

1:21:37

- Podcasting, you have all the free speech you want.

1:21:42

- Well, I don't know that that's gonna remain that way. Yeah. It's

1:21:45

- Gonna remain until I die or until I get fired. I'm not talking

1:21:49

- About you, Todd. I'm talking about the industry. Okay. It's definitely point.

1:21:53

Which, which is a good segue, Todd,

1:21:55

because I had a conversation with, uh, some folks

1:21:59

that are out there trying to educate people

1:22:02

around brand safety and suitability. Oh,

1:22:04

- Gotcha. Let's not get into this. - Yeah. So I, I asked a couple of these ladies

1:22:10

to come on the podcast at some point to, um, go head

1:22:15

to head with us on this. - Please, please do that when I'm not on the show,

1:22:18

when I'm somewhere, somewhere. Oh my God. Well, Todd,

1:22:22

- Don't you wanna know the, uh, nitty gritty on this

1:22:25

- Topic? I don't wanna hear about censorship.

1:22:29

- Yeah, but that's, that's only part of what's being talked about here.

1:22:33

So it's, that's a, that's a outcome of this,

1:22:37

but it's not understanding the process

1:22:40

that is being rolled out in the industry right now.

1:22:43

And that's the conversation that I want to - Have.

1:22:45

It's not being rolled out in my platform, - But it is in others.

1:22:49

- Well, good. Then, uh, people come on down.

1:22:51

Blueberry's the home of free speech. - Well, Todd, it's, it's gonna increasingly come

1:22:57

to the consumption side, not the distribution side. Uh,

1:23:00

- If I have an RSS feed - No, but think, think Apple. Oh,

1:23:06

- Of course. You know, think - These, the listener side is where

1:23:10

- It's gonna, and this, this is why we have podcasting 2.0.

1:23:12

That's why we have open podcasting app.

1:23:14

That's why you have an RSS feed. This ain't gonna happen.

1:23:19

It's this will call. - I mean, Todd, think about it. What happens if section two

1:23:24

30 of the Millennium Copyright Act gets

1:23:27

overturned? 'cause it could, - No, if it does, I think it does,

1:23:32

- Then we'll see this stuff roll out in full, full spectrum.

1:23:38

- I don't think so. - If Section two 30 gets

1:23:43

overturned Yes, it will. 'cause it'll be, it'll be required.

1:23:49

- Uh, I'm not enforcing any, any,

1:23:57

you got freedom of speech on my platform. - I - Get it. As long as you stay within your

1:24:02

- No, no, I want that to terms of service. I'm just saying that that's, that's why, why we need

1:24:07

to have this conversation, because this is, this is

1:24:09

so people need to u understand what's,

1:24:12

- What's going on behind the scenes. Did you guys get in a fist fight in the hallway?

1:24:17

- There was a thread where I, I, I challenged their,

1:24:20

their assumptions because they're drawing this distinction

1:24:24

that somehow, um, is

1:24:28

I'm misunderstanding somehow about the difference between,

1:24:31

and, and it's like slicing hairs, in my opinion.

1:24:34

Yeah. This difference between brand safety

1:24:37

and brand suitability. And somehow there's some unique

1:24:41

and valuable aspects of the distinction between these two things.

1:24:44

And that's what they're gonna come on. I don't - Want, I don't want some company to tell me

1:24:50

what I should not listen to. I don't need an organization, government,

1:24:55

or anyone telling me what I should and shouldn't listen to.

1:24:59

And that's, - Yeah.

1:25:02

But yeah, it kind of goes beyond that, Todd. It's, you know, you're kind of jumping ahead to,

1:25:06

to another aspect of it, which is, you know, more impact on

1:25:11

what you can consume as a, as a content consumer.

1:25:14

What I'm talking about is the application of this technology

1:25:18

to the content creator, right.

1:25:20

About what they can say and what they can do.

1:25:23

If they wanna monetize their program, because this technology is being applied to content creators

1:25:28

that want to monetize, do - Advertising, well, then what's gonna end up happening is

1:25:33

there'll be a big boomerang that's gonna happen.

1:25:36

They're gonna do this, and then there's gonna be such little inventory

1:25:39

left to monetize. The advertisers are gonna be like, let's fire these people.

1:25:46

We're losing, - We've gotta raise awareness

1:25:50

to what's happening here. And well, - I think it's well known what's happening.

1:25:54

- No, it's not, Todd. Most people don't even understand

1:25:58

what brand suitability and brand safety is, let alone in the

1:26:02

podcast industry or space. I mean, if you're involved in podcast advertising,

1:26:07

you're probably more aware of it. But if you're not involved in podcast

1:26:10

advertising directly at scale, you're probably not even affected by it. Well

1:26:15

- Then I, and you're, so if you're not doing advertising,

1:26:17

you're not gonna be affected. - Well, that's the bigger concern that I have, Todd, is

1:26:23

that this technology is going to just like we've seen with

1:26:27

with YouTube, it's gonna roll out, um,

1:26:29

in the consumption side of podcasting.

1:26:32

Uh, and then shows are gonna get, episodes are gonna get taken down off

1:26:35

of the podcasting platforms, potentially with the same technology layer.

1:26:40

- They won't get taken down. You think they're gonna Todd, oh, I, if, if they do that,

1:26:46

then it is going to be world wari.

1:26:50

- Well, okay, so - 'cause okay, you start taking content down

1:26:53

because someone said something that a, a computer

1:26:57

didn't think was appropriate. When that audience finds out this

1:27:04

content's being removed because they've been goes on, they've been told every

1:27:09

- Day on, on YouTube, - Well be, and that's the,

1:27:12

that's the risk of being on YouTube. - It's - So,

1:27:16

- There's no argument on that. So - Again, when audiences start being wake up

1:27:21

and being told, sorry, content's not available here anymore

1:27:25

because the computer removed the content, then there's gonna be a visceral reaction.

1:27:30

People don't being, again, people do not like to be told

1:27:34

what they can and cannot listen to. And what will happen then.

1:27:38

And, and we've seen this a lot on, I've seen this on YouTuber channels that said, Hey folks,

1:27:43

they just got demonetized and they're at a loss as to what to do

1:27:48

because they, their ability to get ads to get whatever this,

1:27:52

uh, you know, super chat is, that's all been taken away.

1:27:55

And the next thing they know, it's just like getting shot in the head

1:27:58

because they, they have, they, YouTube has killed them

1:28:03

and killed their, killed their ability to make money.

1:28:07

And as enough people has this happen to them, they will wake up.

1:28:10

There has to be a better way. And that's what will be the demise of these platforms.

1:28:16

When they bring the hammer too hard

1:28:18

and piss too many people off, piss too many creators off the pendulum will shift.

1:28:23

But until it gets so painful, until it gets so painful,

1:28:28

it won't, it's just gonna continue to, the stupidity is going to continue.

1:28:34

- Well, it's, the risk is kind of, uh, as a content creator,

1:28:38

self-censoring what you're talking about in the program.

1:28:41

And increasingly that is happening. Well

1:28:43

- Then, um, for - A variety of motivational reasons. Yeah.

1:28:47

- Money in the market, money, money. Well,

1:28:50

- That's, that's the lever that's being used right now.

1:28:52

Money in the podcasting space. It's all about access to ad support.

1:28:56

So if you talk about content in your,

1:28:59

in your podcast, right? And it gets picked up by these brand suitability

1:29:04

and safety, um, algorithms, they will flag it as,

1:29:08

uh, problem content. - As soon as I mention the word Elon Musk,

1:29:12

then this content is flagged for brand safety.

1:29:15

- Yeah. That's, that's kind of how it works, right?

1:29:18

And my question of, of those platforms is

1:29:21

how sophisticated are they to understand, um, deep context

1:29:26

to what's being discussed? So are they still living in the realm

1:29:29

- Of you just wanna gimme a heart attack, bringing these people on and want me to go to war with them?

1:29:36

- Well, Todd, if, if we just let it happen in the background

1:29:39

and nobody's aware of it, it's gonna, one day it's gonna come up

1:29:42

and it's gonna bite us all in the ass, and we're let go.

1:29:44

Well, how come we didn't know about this? - Well, again, primarily now it's,

1:29:48

it's expecting people that are advertising.

1:29:50

But I agree, if it starts going beyond a,

1:29:52

but it already is on YouTube, it's already going beyond advertising. It's being

1:29:56

- Yeah, I think we've already seen the, the fact

1:29:59

that it doesn't really, I mean, it hasn't negatively impacted in any kind of tangible way

1:30:04

that I've seen YouTube. So, you know, because if you think about the, the

1:30:09

- Visions in country, oh, if, if in your favorite channel team monetized it affects you Yeah.

1:30:13

But is that creators quitting? - Okay. But most of the creator

1:30:16

or most of the audience members don't really know when

1:30:19

something has been removed. - Well, most, most channels when they are, uh, demonetized,

1:30:26

specifically demonetized, - And oftentimes the, the, the consumer

1:30:29

of the show doesn't know that. - Well, so I've heard it a lot.

1:30:34

- This is happening in the background. This is happening in the background.

1:30:36

It's directly impacting content creators. And it's also a reason why we're seeing the growth of,

1:30:43

in alternative economy, uh, type platforms like a rumble, is

1:30:47

that people are Yeah. You know, doing that shift between YouTube and Rumble.

1:30:52

Uh, because rumble won't take you down if you talk about

1:30:54

topics that, you know, maybe are considered

1:30:57

by YouTube to be controversial, - Or if, you know, if you're a government that tries

1:31:02

to censor politicians, and, uh, well, you know,

1:31:07

- Welcome to our world, right? Is we're all being monitored

1:31:11

and we're all being listened to. And, and increasingly that

1:31:16

capability is growing. So,

1:31:19

- Wow, that's the, - That's, that's the reality of our world today.

1:31:24

- All I can say is much, - I think everybody knows that, Todd.

1:31:27

It's just that a lot of people aren't willing to say it. Well,

1:31:31

- And it's, most people say, oh, it can't happen

1:31:33

to me until it does. - Well, it's like, if it's the old argument, Todd,

1:31:39

if you don't say anything controversial, then uh,

1:31:41

you're never gonna get in trouble. Right? - But in, in, in the eyes of who

1:31:46

- That's no, just generally if, well, - No, if - You, if you don't take a contrary view to

1:31:51

whatever political position that's in favor out there,

1:31:54

- Right, right, right. - Then, then you are not gonna get in trouble.

1:31:58

And as long as you conform to

1:32:00

what the expectations are, you're not gonna get in trouble. Conform,

1:32:04

- Conform. - That's the, that's, that's the danger here, right?

1:32:07

- It is the danger. Right? And this is why open podcasting, open RSS

1:32:14

is the ultimate form of anti-censorship,

1:32:17

- Right? And this show is about what's happening in the media

1:32:21

landscape, the new media landscape.

1:32:23

And I'm not holding back on talking about important topics in this medium.

1:32:28

I know that there are many people out there in, in the podcast medium

1:32:31

and outside of the podcast medium, that are very, very kind

1:32:35

of hesitant to talk about what's actually happening

1:32:38

<laugh> in the, in the new media - Industry right now.

1:32:41

'cause guess because guess why? They're gonna have, yeah.

1:32:45

They're gonna get, they're all - Scared of losing their careers.

1:32:47

- They're gonna get, they're all, - They're all scared - Of, they're gonna get ramifications.

1:32:51

No, they're gonna get cut off from the cash supply.

1:32:54

- Yeah. They're, they're concerned about losing their jobs,

1:32:57

or they're concerned about pissing off the wrong person

1:33:00

because they took the wrong - Instead position of standing up and saying no.

1:33:05

- Well, it's, it's even beyond that, Todd. It's, it's just helping people understand what's happening.

1:33:11

And, and maybe that will inspire others to,

1:33:15

to object as well, Todd. So, I mean, we're safer in numbers than we are

1:33:19

- As No, that, that's true - As individuals.

1:33:22

So let's say there's only five people in the world calling

1:33:25

this, this out. Those five people can easily be taken out, right? <laugh>.

1:33:29

But if there's a million of us, you - Got a bulletproof vest, Rob - <laugh>.

1:33:32

Right? If there's a million of us, they can't have a hard time doing that. Right?

1:33:36

- It's the first, you know, it won't be the first time I've had

1:33:39

to wear a jacket <laugh>. - Yeah. I mean, and this,

1:33:43

and this is the other point that I'm trying to drive here too, is that this technology doesn't have

1:33:47

to be used for bad. It can be used for good purposes. Most

1:33:51

- Of it's being used for bad, - Right?

1:33:54

And, but, but, but what my pushback is, is

1:33:57

that let's use this technology to better target the brands

1:34:01

with the audience based on psychographics

1:34:05

and demographics, not political graphics, right?

1:34:09

Or cultural graphics. Let's, let's not be as concerned about that, because I don't

1:34:15

- Believe I can do that. I can do that without brand safety.

1:34:18

- This is this, this is what I challenge, um, others

1:34:22

that talk about this, that are in the research side.

1:34:24

I say, have you done any studies that actually correlate a reduction of ROI for

1:34:32

being compliant with these brand safety platforms?

1:34:36

So, um, are you seeing an increase in ROI

1:34:40

or are you seeing a decrease? Are you seeing, um, fewer numbers of shows?

1:34:45

- No one's gonna answer this purchased. No one's gonna answer this

1:34:47

- Because of these brand safeties.

1:34:50

- No one's gonna answer that, - Right? So if we wanna hit,

1:34:52

- You know, why, you know why they're not gonna answer that. It doesn't fit the narrative, right?

1:34:57

- But what's true? That's the, that's the question.

1:35:00

Or, or are we not playing the - What is, what is the truth card here?

1:35:04

What is true is that some people think

1:35:09

that adults can't think for themselves, and they think they need to protect us, uh, from ourselves.

1:35:15

That's what they think. And it's ultimately, well, they think we're stupid then.

1:35:20

And, and this is what they ultimately say back

1:35:22

to the advertisers, is that these people are too stupid

1:35:27

to protect themselves, such that you should not advertise.

1:35:30

Maybe that's not the right analogy, but you should not advertise on this show

1:35:35

because of the perception. Yeah.

1:35:39

- Well, well just think about Todd. The New York Times in an op-ed, like about a month

1:35:46

and a half ago, came out saying that the New York Times podcasts are being negatively

1:35:52

impacted based on brand safety platforms. That

1:35:54

- Tells you, uh, you know, that's hard to believe, uh, is,

1:35:58

you know, from their political standpoint, it's hard to believe that they're being,

1:36:02

- Well, they're being targeted because these brand safety

1:36:05

and suitability platforms, uh, may

1:36:07

or may not be as it, um, capable

1:36:10

as they're being portrayed to be. Um, their, their argument was, is that, um, just

1:36:16

to give you an example, the, some of the podcasts, um,

1:36:20

you know, they're, they're news shows, so they're covering

1:36:24

like war topics and things like that, and they're using the word gun in their right,

1:36:29

- Just like me using the word Elon Musk.

1:36:31

- Right? And, and those are being flagged as not brand safe.

1:36:36

Right? Just, and my question for them is, is

1:36:42

are you really analyzing this on the context of

1:36:46

what is being, how that works? - So how did that conversation go with these brand safety,

1:36:50

uh, pundits? Well, - I didn't really have that particular point with them

1:36:56

yet, so, Mm-Hmm. That's what I wanted to have on this show,

1:36:59

<laugh>, is that, ooh, - That could be a lively one.

1:37:02

- Are are these algorithms that they're utilizing

1:37:05

to evaluate programs are, are they taking into account proper context?

1:37:10

- I don't believe Well, they're gonna know what they're gonna say. Oh yes, of course,

1:37:13

- I know. But then why is the New York Times complaining

1:37:16

that they got demonetized? - They're not using our service

1:37:18

- Because they use the word gun in, - They're not using our news reporting.

1:37:21

It'll all be deflection. They're not using our service.

1:37:25

They should be using us instead of the, you know, the company that they're using.

1:37:29

That'll be the deflection. Everyone does this.

1:37:33

- Yeah. But it's happening from increasingly, it started out

1:37:37

as happening at the agencies, at the ad buying agencies.

1:37:40

Uh, and then increasingly it's been moving to the distribution platforms, um, this brand safety,

1:37:46

because increasingly we've seen distribution platforms,

1:37:51

um, have advertising. - Yeah. Because they're advertising,

1:37:54

they're advertising against the content and making money off that and Right.

1:37:59

- And they're also selling the, the advertising - Into those programs.

1:38:02

And, and the creator doesn't get jack of that so

1:38:06

- Well, and it's also being, being done as kind

1:38:08

of a default evaluation. And, and, and sometimes at least, I don't know that

1:38:14

that's happening right now, that all the creators don't always know

1:38:17

that they're being evaluated based on these criteria.

1:38:20

- Anyone that's taken advertising has to know that already.

1:38:23

If they're not, they're sleeping behind a rock. - Well, I think now, now they do,

1:38:26

but in the early days, I'm not sure that everybody knew

1:38:28

that their shows were being run through these algorithms

1:38:30

because they were, they were being done by,

1:38:33

at the agency level before they made the buy.

1:38:37

So, but I do think that's changed now.

1:38:40

I think it's now at the level of the, um,

1:38:43

agency beyond the agency.

1:38:45

It's at the platform level. So if you're like a ad sales platform that's associated

1:38:49

with the hosting platform, those ad sales representatives,

1:38:53

uh, will likely run their shows

1:38:55

that they're repping into agencies. - I'm gonna have to have 10 tylen, not 10 Tylenol, I'll have

1:39:00

to have 10 tum before we talk to these people.

1:39:06

- So I don't - Know. And I, it's, and I'm gonna sit

1:39:08

and let you go to war, because if I say anything,

1:39:11

I'm probably gonna say stuff I'll regret and get fired for <laugh>.

1:39:16

- Well, that's what makes this whole thing

1:39:19

so un unfortunate, is because I think that there's a willingness on,

1:39:23

on those platforms part to, to talk about this stuff.

1:39:27

I'm just not sure that they're going to talk about it in a way

1:39:30

that really answers all these questions. Well,

1:39:32

- They're gonna sell their narrative. They're there to sell a service, they're there to make money

1:39:37

by analyzing this data. They're gonna sugarcoat it in any way they can

1:39:41

and make 'em sound like they're the perfect angels

1:39:44

and doing the best for the consumers listening

1:39:47

to this content to protect them from bad content

1:39:52

and to protect the, the, the,

1:39:54

- This information and - Disinformation - Is the goal. Todd,

1:39:57

- Here again, again, I don't need any big brother,

1:40:03

any company, any service telling me,

1:40:06

right. If I wanna, - Yeah.

1:40:10

And brand safety under their definition is, uh, topics

1:40:13

that are not aligned with don't the values of the brand.

1:40:17

- Don't advertisers realize that if I'm listening to show

1:40:20

1, 2, 3, I'm listening because I like that show

1:40:24

and that I'm gonna support an advertiser

1:40:27

that is running in that show. Now, where the problem comes in is you have some lookie Lou,

1:40:34

some lookie Lou that doesn't, not even a fan of that show

1:40:38

is gonna come in and say, that's - Evaluating - It, and they're gonna say, oh, oh my God,

1:40:45

brand X, Y, Z is advertising in this show.

1:40:48

Oh my God, I'm going to boycott them instead

1:40:51

of mining their business. - <laugh>. Well, that's kind of, that kind of, I mean,

1:40:56

I think there is a good example of that out there right now, and it's Tesla.

1:41:00

Um, I think it's got caught up in the

1:41:03

political divide out there. And there are certain individuals out there in the world,

1:41:06

and this is probably the, the argument that they're going to, they could make is that

1:41:11

there are perceptions on, on the part of consumers out there

1:41:16

that are politically leaning towards supporting certain

1:41:21

companies that have opposite leanings in their

1:41:25

kind of political orientation, - In their leadership.

1:41:28

Well, you know, that, you know, Elon was the darling of the left until he bought X, and now he's the arch enemy.

1:41:35

- Right? But that's a good example, <laugh>.

1:41:37

So let, let, let's say you're brand X and you look at advertising, uh, for Tesla, is that,

1:41:42

which Tesla is not really advertising very much, but they,

1:41:45

but they may start advertising. So certain brands may not want to advertise associated, uh,

1:41:52

with, you know, what, or even the content may not align with, with, uh,

1:41:57

running a flag. - So, so as soon as you throw politics into the, into the

1:42:02

equation, people just lose their fricking minds.

1:42:07

- Oh my God, people are losing friendships. People are

1:42:10

- Oh, that's been going on since, uh, families are, that's been going on since covid.

1:42:15

- Yeah, but it's even, I think it's even getting worse now.

1:42:17

I think there's families being divided

1:42:20

along political lines now. - Oh, that - Was, they didn't even talk to each other, that

1:42:23

- Rob, that was happening hardcore during Covid. It was the vaxxers, anti-vaxxers.

1:42:27

The folks had never say, I'm not taking the shot, you know?

1:42:31

No, I agree with you. And then, oh, you're not taking the shot you're putting

1:42:33

- Me, but it's not getting any better, Todd. - It's not getting better. No, it's

1:42:36

not. But that's when it started. - Yeah. That's when it started.

1:42:39

- You know, mind your own I own business.

1:42:41

- I think even, even even business deals

1:42:44

between people now are, have,

1:42:46

always have a political undertone now.

1:42:49

- So let me, let me show you something. Are - You with us or against - Us?

1:42:52

Let me show you something here. Uh, uh, let me get the, let me get it here.

1:43:00

There we go. This is what we need to show on the show right now.

1:43:04

Let me bring it up here. There we go.

1:43:07

Don't tread on me. <laugh>.

1:43:10

- That's a, isn't that a military thing, Todd?

1:43:12

- It is, it is. It's, yeah. <laugh>. Yeah. Oh,

1:43:19

- Yeah. I think, I think the, the reality is we, in our society,

1:43:24

and this is the soapbox that I'm starting to get on too.

1:43:26

Sure, sure. We need to, we need to respect our opinions.

1:43:30

Yeah. Different opinions. And those opinions don't have to hurt anybody.

1:43:35

You as an individual can only allow something to hurt you.

1:43:40

It, it's, it's the old argument of sticks

1:43:42

and stones break my bones. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But - Words - Don't hurt us.

1:43:45

- Right? But that's what pe - That's been around for a - Long time, but people say, words do hurt me now.

1:43:49

So that's the problem that we've moved out of that. It's

1:43:51

- This, Rob, - We're - Old. It's this ideology. We're

1:43:53

- Around around - Victimhood - Todd.

1:43:55

We're we're old. We're old. So of course we're old, so of course, you know.

1:44:01

- Yeah. But <laugh>, it's, it's the ideology

1:44:04

of victimhood is, is what's kind of behind a lot of this.

1:44:07

And that's the societal shift that's happened is

1:44:10

that people are able to capture power

1:44:13

by portraying themselves as - Victims.

1:44:15

I don't, I don't want to go into this, this, this turns into a conversation that has not no good ending.

1:44:21

- But that's the problem, Todd, is that if nobody ever talks about it, it's, it becomes,

1:44:25

- I I talk about it in my a text show all the time.

1:44:28

I said, I don't want anyone, and again, I'm not listening to anything radical,

1:44:33

but I don't want anyone telling me what to listen to. And I, and I'm smart enough to make up my own.

1:44:39

The thing is, they, here's here is wherein lies the,

1:44:43

the issue I think the American public or any public in the world has the, has the ability

1:44:47

to choose what they wanna listen to, what they don't wanna listen to.

1:44:51

It's when the looky-loos, - Why does someone else have to decide what I can hear?

1:44:56

- I can hear, right, right, right. Or how, and, and again, 'cause

1:45:01

- That's really risky actually. Yeah. Yeah.

1:45:04

- And I think everyone should be able to listen to what they want.

1:45:06

They should be able to, and this is where, you know, maybe we get to the point where

1:45:10

advertising just won't be able to advertise in anything.

1:45:13

- Well, I think it's a big threat to the advertising industry, uh, as you look into the future

1:45:18

and why, why we're seeing this shift towards

1:45:20

like a you screen, right? Is is that

1:45:23

that's more member direct relationships with content creators.

1:45:27

- So - That's the only safe pathway.

1:45:30

- So again, we have that in place today in the podcasting

1:45:34

space, value for value. - Mm-Hmm. - <affirmative>, you can participate in the value

1:45:38

for value community we're giving you value can give value back.

1:45:41

Yeah. Time, talent, or treasure. We don't need a fancy platform to spend $500 a month

1:45:47

and a dollar 49 ahead to facilitate that.

1:45:52

We have an open platform that facilitate

1:45:54

that today on podcast apps com. Ding ding. And,

1:45:58

- And we have that as long as we have it. But, but the tools are not as developed.

1:46:05

- Oh, we, I'll just put you that way. Well, we know it's a challenge for people to,

1:46:09

to do streaming SATs. And that's, you know, that's, that's,

1:46:11

- I mean, that's why, that's why Patreon has existed for

1:46:14

as long as it has is, or that reason alone is that podcasting doesn't really have

1:46:19

that dynamic built into its

1:46:23

widespread distribution. - So, Adam platform, so Adam and Dave, if you're listening

1:46:26

here, you know, this, uh, you know, we, we, we, we do need

1:46:30

to make it easier for people to use real, to real

1:46:33

fiat cash in apps to do value for value. So Yeah.

1:46:38

- Yeah. Some way to do that. Well, there

1:46:41

- Is, they've got the, you know, we have that available.

1:46:44

We just gotta get the apps to surface those donation links

1:46:48

that leads to our PayPals and so forth.

1:46:50

So, you know, that is covered, but it's not really embedded.

1:46:54

You can't do, you know, streaming SATs.

1:46:57

You can't do, uh, micropayments. But maybe there could be something where you get to the end

1:47:02

of listening to a show and said, Hey, you, you decided

1:47:04

to contribute 25 cents a minute. Uh, here's your bill. Pay your invoice.

1:47:08

You know, I, I don't know. But, uh, or pay in advance, I,

1:47:15

I know some people are screaming at me right now. Alright. We are like long, long, long.

1:47:19

- Yeah, we are. Yeah. - Alright. I'm tired.

1:47:22

- Almost two hours this time, - Todd.

1:47:24

I'm exhausted. So by the way, I will not be available

1:47:28

the week of May.

1:47:31

I will not be available two shows from now.

1:47:34

I will be available for the next show and the next show,

1:47:37

but no show on the eighth for me. And if you wanna go solo and invite those brand safety

1:47:41

people on, and are you and my proxy, uh, feel free.

1:47:45

Um, just, I just get exhausted thinking to have to talk

1:47:50

to those folks because it, I I, I already know how it's gonna go.

1:47:53

I can predict, I can predict what they're gonna say

1:47:57

to almost a word. It's not that bad. It's not that bad.

1:48:00

We're not really doing that. No, we're not doing that.

1:48:03

I can hear it now. - Yeah. Yeah. Well,

1:48:07

- It's maybe, yeah, and maybe we need to maybe expose the

1:48:10

hypocrisy would be good. - Well, it just, I think making more people aware of how,

1:48:18

how it works, how it's being rolled out, um,

1:48:22

as more people want to monetize their shows

1:48:24

and think sponsorship is the pathway, - Adventures and audio - Or advertising,

1:48:29

- Adventures and audio. And, uh, YouTube said we'd would love

1:48:33

to see a show on this subject, <laugh>,

1:48:37

- I'm sure, I'm sure they would just, especially

1:48:40

after this topic, uh, discussion we've had on this episode.

1:48:43

- Yeah. Just to see, just to see the war

1:48:45

that would break out. I'm sure.

1:48:48

- I don't want it to be a war. I, I think both sides lose in

1:48:51

that, but, um, I think it's really

1:48:53

to have a intelligent conversation about it

1:48:55

and hopefully it, we can, we can peel back the layers

1:49:00

of this onion a little bit and have a deeper understanding of how it works.

1:49:03

- But the problem is, I don't think they'll be fully transparent.

1:49:08

I don't trust them to be fully transparent, but,

1:49:11

- Well, it may not be in their best business interest

1:49:14

to do so. Right.

1:49:17

- So are you really gonna get the truth? Are you just gonna get a, get a, you know,

1:49:21

pat you on the head and be a good little dog and go away,

1:49:26

- I guess? We'll, we'll have to find out, won't we?

1:49:29

- <laugh>? Alright.

1:49:32

We've had a lot of you on the stream and, uh, yes, Stephanie,

1:49:37

people are losing friendships over opinions.

1:49:39

Yes. That has happened a lot Now.

1:49:41

Lucky Rob and I are still good friends. We haven't lost our friendship yet,

1:49:45

but we, you know, if we get to the point where we need to do

1:49:47

that, we'll just, we'll take a time out and go to a boxing ring and, uh, you know, strap on some.

1:49:52

- Yeah, Todd, it's gonna be around this whole topic of video <laugh>.

1:49:55

Uh, I definitely think that's what's gonna drive us apart, Todd. Oh, okay.

1:49:59

- Whatever, - <laugh>, - You're not gonna get rid of me that easy.

1:50:03

Okay. I know, I know. All everybody, thanks for being here.

1:50:06

And I'm [email protected] at Geek [email protected] on

1:50:11

Mastodon last reverence, another place of free speech.

1:50:14

And of course, at Geek News on X. We're hopefully Elon, let's loose on the Brazilians.

1:50:21

Uh, I wanna see that - The Brazilians, the - What?

1:50:26

The Brazilian, uh, Supreme Court judge.

1:50:29

I hope we get to see that entire thread. And Elon Keith.

1:50:33

- Oh, that's, that's, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

1:50:36

- But, you know, yeah, - He's, that company is, uh, going

1:50:40

through some tough times right now, so,

1:50:44

- You know, gotta admit, uh, you know, he's, he does

1:50:47

what he says, love him or hate him.

1:50:52

- Yeah. I still haven't gotten my FSD

1:50:56

12 X quite yet. Uh, in, in, in my car.

1:50:59

- You haven't paid the $99 a month for it, or, uh,

1:51:03

- No. I was, I was supposed to get a free 30 days of it,

1:51:06

but they haven't sent the update to a certain subset of vehicles.

1:51:10

Oh. I believe that the subset of vehicles have o ultrasonic,

1:51:14

um, capability in - Them.

1:51:16

Client has now that it's, now that it's warmed up a little bit, you can actually safely drive somewhere, Rob, so

1:51:21

- I can Okay. I just drove, I just drove all the down

1:51:25

to Newark, New Jersey in - My car back.

1:51:27

It's, it's warm again. It's not 20 below. So

1:51:31

- <laugh> - Yeah. Just teasing you.

1:51:34

- I know you are - All, everybody, Rob, - But I'm on, on X as well at Rob Greenley.

1:51:41

And, uh, you can find [email protected].

1:51:44

I'm doing another live show tomorrow night, uh,

1:51:48

Thursday night at 7:00 PM Eastern. And I'm gonna be talking about podcasting

1:51:52

and the convergence with video and,

1:51:55

and on, on that show for, for Streamy yards.

1:51:58

So, so come check it out.

1:52:01

- And if you stayed with us for an hour and 50 minutes, we must have gave you some value.

1:52:05

So, uh, the PayPal link [email protected] Everyone.

1:52:08

Take care <laugh>. We'll see you next time. Bye bye.

1:52:12

- Thank you. Bye.